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MacRumors
Oct 15, 2007, 02:08 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Tidbits optimistically (http://db.tidbits.com/article/9239) points to a new 3G chipset (http://prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/10-15-2007/0004681492&EDATE=) from Broadcom as the chip that Apple has been waiting for.

The new Broadcom chip is described as "a new single-chip HSPA (high-speed packet access) processor that integrates all of the key 3G (third generation) cellular and mobile technologies on an extremely low power, single 65 nanometer CMOS die. "

The press release claims that it will allow manufacturers to build 3G phones with sleek form factors and a very long battery life.

Apple's Steve Jobs has been vocal that high power consumption has been the main hurdle towards adopting 3G technologies into the iPhone. Apple is expected to release a 3G iPhone in the future. Whether or not this chip plays a role remains to be seen.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2007/10/15/3g-phone-on-a-chip-from-broadcom/)



lamerlizer
Oct 15, 2007, 02:17 AM
looks like i'll be getting a 3G iphone by the time it reaches singapore :D

synth3tik
Oct 15, 2007, 02:25 AM
The first bit of credibility to all those "I work at an Apple store and 3G iPhones are on the way" threads.

mclihah2
Oct 15, 2007, 03:38 AM
Dang

The iPhone isn't even out in the UK yet, and already it's looking really prehistoric.

Steve Jobs has already stated (in the UK iPhone launch) that next year, low powered 3G chips will be available (hinting that the next gen iPhone will be low powered 3G). Well, now we hear that the new Broadcom chip has a low powered 3G element to it.

I'm not buying that 1st generation iPhone no matter... Especially this close to Macworld 2008.

Dagless
Oct 15, 2007, 05:06 AM
I've decided to hold off on my iPhone purchase for now. I'd much rather have a 3G iPhone, and since I only buy a new phone every few years I'd rather have one with the newest communication tech.

emotion
Oct 15, 2007, 06:21 AM
I've decided to hold off on my iPhone purchase for now. I'd much rather have a 3G iPhone, and since I only buy a new phone every few years I'd rather have one with the newest communication tech.

Me too but I'm not waiting. I still think we might be a minimum of 6 months from actual release of this revision though I'd be more inclined to say we're still 10 months off (particularly in the UK). I expect an upgrade path for iPhone v1 buyers.

The other fly in this particular ointment is the useless coverage O2 sports for it's 3G network (still).

koobcamuk
Oct 15, 2007, 07:41 AM
Me too but I'm not waiting. I still think we might be a minimum of 6 months from actual release of this revision though I'd be more inclined to say we're still 10 months off (particularly in the UK). I expect an upgrade path for iPhone v1 buyers.

The other fly in this particular ointment is the useless coverage O2 sports for it's 3G network (still).

Agreed.

My iPhone should be with me very soon (damn Royal Mail) and then I can have a play with it. I am currently with vodafone and won't be signing a new contract until Rev B or iPhone 2 is released. I have another 5 months or so left, so I will just sit back and relax.:cool:

bbplayer5
Oct 15, 2007, 07:42 AM
Im just going to buy another iphone when this comes out haha :)

retroneo
Oct 15, 2007, 07:54 AM
this chip is intended for phones shipping in 2009 :-(

""We have engineering samples and we anticipate that HSUPA phones targeting the mid-tier price market using the part will be on sale during the first half of 2009," Mike Civiello, senior director of marketing at Broadcom's Mobile and Wireless business unit told EE Times Europe ."

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=202402320

emotion
Oct 15, 2007, 07:57 AM
Agreed.

My iPhone should be with me very soon (damn Royal Mail) and then I can have a play with it. I am currently with vodafone and won't be signing a new contract until Rev B or iPhone 2 is released. I have another 5 months or so left, so I will just sit back and relax.:cool:

Well sit back and relax with an outmoded/insecure firmware ;)

When you get Leopard you won't have a2dp, full notes support, full todo support, maybe mms etc etc

(j/k I dont think O2 are a good network at all and maybe Vodafone will get the 3G version also. That is where my plan breaks down).

koobcamuk
Oct 15, 2007, 08:05 AM
Well sit back and relax with an outmoded/insecure firmware ;)

When you get Leopard you won't have a2dp, full notes support, full todo support, maybe mms etc etc

(j/k I dont think O2 are a good network at all and maybe Vodafone will get the 3G version also. That is where my plan breaks down).

I'm going to jailbreak it when I get it - so it's basically a touch with all the apps and a camera and bluetooth.

Then I am going to pay for iphonesimfree unlocking - which doesn't change the baseband modem and this means that 1.1.1 shouldn't brick it. Obviously, I'll see what happens... but for some reason, Apple don't seem to mind iphonesimfree but do mind the free unlock, which I find interesting!

As for the plan; I sold my Sharp 903SH for £220 and got the iPhone for £260 inc postage (no tax :D). I pay £15 a month for my mobile useage, so unless I find my life is changed by this device - I won't mind. I'll only get a better iphone on a contract, not this one on nov 9th.

emotion
Oct 15, 2007, 08:09 AM
I'm going to jailbreak it when I get it - so it's basically a touch with all the apps and a camera and bluetooth.

Then I am going to pay for iphonesimfree unlocking - which doesn't change the baseband modem and this means that 1.1.1 shouldn't brick it. Obviously, I'll see what happens... but for some reason, Apple don't seem to mind iphonesimfree but do mind the free unlock, which I find interesting!

Yes, I'd say that was not really a case of Apple 'minding' more that one solution is cludgier than the other.

I think your approach is fine as long as you know the risks and approach updates with due caution. I have a problem with the whine-fests that result from firmware updates. ie. if someone is (wo)man enough to "hack" then be (wo)man enough to deal with the consequences.

...I'll get off my soapbox now :)

sananda
Oct 15, 2007, 08:10 AM
Apple don't seem to mind iphonesimfree but do mind the free unlock, which I find interesting!


i think it's a case of the free unlock having been badly done (and the iphonesimfree done well) and causing it's own problems rather than apple taking any stance.

emotion
Oct 15, 2007, 08:13 AM
As for the plan; I sold my Sharp 903SH for 220 and got the iPhone for 260 inc postage (no tax :D).

Wait until you receive it before you say no tax. I've been bitten by this before.

koobcamuk
Oct 15, 2007, 08:39 AM
Wait until you receive it before you say no tax. I've been bitten by this before.

I was lucky. It arrived in the UK two weeks ago - the my brother sent it to me (I was in Cyprus on holiday). No tax to pay - not when he received it at least...

As for being man enough to hack - sure thing. I won't be clicking away on 'update' any time soon! I'll just see how I go. If it works - great. If not, I still have a really cool iPhone that I can sell for what I paid or near enough/give to my brother who is on O2...

Either way, pop over and have a play when it finally gets to me...

emotion
Oct 15, 2007, 08:44 AM
I was lucky. It arrived in the UK two weeks ago - the my brother sent it to me (I was in Cyprus on holiday). No tax to pay - not when he received it at least...


Phew.


As for being man enough to hack - sure thing. I won't be clicking away on 'update' any time soon! I'll just see how I go. If it works - great. If not, I still have a really cool iPhone that I can sell for what I paid or near enough/give to my brother who is on O2...


That's exactly the spirit in which it should be approached imo.


Either way, pop over and have a play when it finally gets to me...


Will do...looking forward to seeing the new toy! :)

Lord Sandwich
Oct 15, 2007, 09:04 AM
I hope this chip actually delivers; my last phone had EVDO and the thing wouldn't last 12 hours without a charge even if I barely used it. It actually made me thankful for iPhone's EDGE! :eek:

Brendon Bauer
Oct 15, 2007, 09:35 AM
this chip is intended for phones shipping in 2009 :-(

""We have engineering samples and we anticipate that HSUPA phones targeting the mid-tier price market using the part will be on sale during the first half of 2009," Mike Civiello, senior director of marketing at Broadcom's Mobile and Wireless business unit told EE Times Europe ."

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=202402320

Not sure where you came up with this... could you point to your source? The article states that it could be anywhere from 3 to 6 months after the sampling, or around 2nd quarter of 2008 if Apple decides to grab it up pretty quick...

"The chip is shipping in small quantities now - called "sampling" - to Broadcom's best customers. The price in quantity will be $23 per chip when it ships, at a date not yet announced, but which is typically a range of 3 to 6 months following sampling in the chip industry.

I don't need to spell out too much how such a chip would affect Apple's plans, which would put a 3G phone into the second quarter 2008 timeframe should Apple decide this chip has the features it needs and can engineer around it rapidly."

And we all know that Apple likes to engineer things rapidly ;)

sananda
Oct 15, 2007, 09:39 AM
Not sure where you came up with this... could you point to your source?

he put a link to his source in his post!

koobcamuk
Oct 15, 2007, 10:01 AM
Phew.



That's exactly the spirit in which it should be approached imo.




Will do...looking forward to seeing the new toy! :)

On my way to the sorting office now... so I should be playing with it tonight. Not sure when I will get it unlocked yet, but that's a different story to jailbreaking :D

plumbingandtech
Oct 15, 2007, 11:07 AM
I bought one on day 1.

I will buy another on 3g iphone day 1.

The productivty and usability gains that I have _already_ received from the iphone have just about paid for it in whole already.

Bring on the iphone 3G!

ghall
Oct 15, 2007, 11:38 AM
this chip is intended for phones shipping in 2009 :-(

""We have engineering samples and we anticipate that HSUPA phones targeting the mid-tier price market using the part will be on sale during the first half of 2009," Mike Civiello, senior director of marketing at Broadcom's Mobile and Wireless business unit told EE Times Europe ."

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=202402320

Just in time for the first iPhone contracts to start running out. :)

winterspan
Oct 15, 2007, 02:56 PM
I hope this chip actually delivers; my last phone had EVDO and the thing wouldn't last 12 hours without a charge even if I barely used it. It actually made me thankful for iPhone's EDGE! :eek:

You just happened to have a ***** phone. There are many 3G phones (maybe not as slim as an iphone though) that get 5+ hours of talktime and at least 5+ days of standby. On another note, I believe EVDO is used for voice/standby/waiting for a call where as with the GSM track a 3G phone can use standard GSM for voice/standby/waiting for a call and only use UMTS/HSPA for data services, thus being even more efficient than EVDO.

Although you may use a phone like an iPhone alot more because of the iPod functions and the great browser, and it does indeed have a large screen, I still think Jobs is hyping the battery life of 3G phones. I would much rather have a 3G iPhone with less battery life than an EDGE iPhone, and obviously a user removable/second battery would be even better.
It also seems as if Apple has the engineering expertise (or their partners) to really squeeze the battery life out of devices, whether it's in the electronics or the batteries themselves. I would have to think Apple would be using the best possible batteries, and their components for the iPhone would be some of the most power efficient available. That's why I still find it strange that Apple launched an EDGE iPhone (other than AT&T's crappy network). Jobs has said twice now that 3G phone battery life needs to get "back up to 5+ hours".
While the size of the iPhone may indeed mean a smaller battery cell, I don't know (haven't looked at what the iSupply tear down guys found for battery size).

Here are some tested battery life values for popular 3G phones:

AT&T 8525 UMTS/HSDPA
talk time (tested): 6 hours
standby (tested): 8.3 days

HTC Mogul PPC-6800 EVDO
talk time (tested): 6.5 hours
standby (tested): 7.0 days

Nokia N95 UMTS/HSDPA
talk time (tested): 8.5 hours
standby (tested): 8.0 days

vx9900 enV EVDO
talk time (tested): 4.75 hours
standby (spec): 19.0 days

Motorola Slvr L7 EVDO
talk time (tested) 5.0 hours
standby (tested) 11.5 days

carfac
Oct 15, 2007, 03:42 PM
I am all set for 3G, I will just give the EDGE one to my wife!

Anyone know if T-Mo has a 3G network, or will this make an honest man of me, and get me to switch to ATT?

Brendon Bauer
Oct 15, 2007, 06:03 PM
he put a link to his source in his post!

I don't believe it was there before... Anyhow, bad news I guess. I sure hope it's earlier than 2009 :rolleyes:

trainrx
Oct 15, 2007, 07:14 PM
Not sure where you came up with this... could you point to your source? The article states that it could be anywhere from 3 to 6 months after the sampling, or around 2nd quarter of 2008 if Apple decides to grab it up pretty quick...

"The chip is shipping in small quantities now - called "sampling" - to Broadcom's best customers. The price in quantity will be $23 per chip when it ships, at a date not yet announced, but which is typically a range of 3 to 6 months following sampling in the chip industry.

I don't need to spell out too much how such a chip would affect Apple's plans, which would put a 3G phone into the second quarter 2008 timeframe should Apple decide this chip has the features it needs and can engineer around it rapidly."

And we all know that Apple likes to engineer things rapidly ;)

Right, it says "...we anticipate that HSUPA phones targeting the mid-tier price market using the part will be on sale during the first half of 2009..." - key words being "mid-tier" price market.

The iPhone is not part of the mid-tier price market, it is part of the high-tier price market (at least in the US).

I would expect the chip to be used in the iPhone long before it appears in the Razrs and such.

dvkid
Oct 15, 2007, 08:33 PM
My hunch is that since Steve was willing to talk about his issues with 3G he's already got a chip company working on the hardware. That would mean that even if this is the right chip Apple is already working with them and has been for some time. It would seem to me that Apple would get first pass on these from some company.

Lord Sandwich
Oct 16, 2007, 07:49 AM
You just happened to have a ***** phone. There are many 3G phones (maybe not as slim as an iphone though) that get 5+ hours of talktime and at least 5+ days of standby. On another note, I believe EVDO is used for voice/standby/waiting for a call where as with the GSM track a 3G phone can use standard GSM for voice/standby/waiting for a call and only use UMTS/HSPA for data services, thus being even more efficient than EVDO.

EVDO is for data services only; you can disconnect it and voice services will work just fine. Part of the problem really lies with Windows Mobile, since it idles on the connection for a very long time (I think it was an hour or so) before disconnecting--which will NEVER happen if you check your mail at reasonable intervals. In some ways this makes sense since the handshake on EVDO takes 30 seconds or so, but it's still a major drain on the charge.

On my HTC Apache (aka 6700), hacking the registry to turn off EVDO dramatically extended battery life, and I think that's where the quoted times for most 3G phones come from. But then what's the point in having data services at all? :D

BTW, the Mogul has slightly better battery life, but only because it comes with a higher-capacity battery (1500MaH vs. 1250 on the Apache).

Rocketman
Oct 16, 2007, 09:28 PM
Slashdot posted recently:

http://www.blackfriarsinc.com/blog/2007/10/why-edge-versus-3g-less-than-you-think

Which said in part,

"Because the Nokia processor/OS/software combination was simply slower at moving bits than the iPhone is. The result: even with a 54 megabit WiFi network -- a network several times faster than the fastest 3G network -- the Internet experience on the Nokia was significantly slower and poorer than that of the iPhone. The phone just couldn't keep up."

and

"The bottom line: Carriers, analysts, and consumers alike have an unhealthy obsession with bandwidth to the exclusion of other important factors that affect the user experience with a phone. Just as the computer industry finally figured out that more gigahertz wasn't necessarily better for users, the phone industry is going to discover the same point (and for the same reasons). And companies that use limited bandwidth in smarter ways to deliver a better user experience -- like Apple -- are going to have a leg up on their competitors no matter what network they use."

Rocketman

irahodges
Oct 18, 2007, 02:05 AM
how possible is it to have both EDGE and 3G chips in the next iPhone?

I am excited about faster data, but EDGE is everywhere. I took a cross country roadtrip from NC to CA this summer and the EDGE on the iPhone picked up almost everywhere I went. I'm worried that the 3G is not going to be in as many places as EDGE, hence my question. I assume it would retreive 3G data rates with only the 3G chip consuming power when it connects to a 3G signal, and change to EDGE when there is no 3G. Any thoughts?

MUrhino
Oct 26, 2007, 11:00 AM
So, am I correct in assuming the 3G upgrade to the iPhone is a hardware upgrade and not simply a software issue? Just wondering how long I have to wait before a 3G comes out so I can buy one!

Is the issue w/ 3G right now simply power consumption vs. speed? That is to say that a current 3G iPhone would drastically reduce battery life, but the speed would be faster? Is that Apple's reasoning behind holding off on the 3G or was it a heat issue? Thanks in advance for the insight! :)

Lord Sandwich
Oct 26, 2007, 12:57 PM
So, am I correct in assuming the 3G upgrade to the iPhone is a hardware upgrade and not simply a software issue? Just wondering how long I have to wait before a 3G comes out so I can buy one!

Is the issue w/ 3G right now simply power consumption vs. speed? That is to say that a current 3G iPhone would drastically reduce battery life, but the speed would be faster? Is that Apple's reasoning behind holding off on the 3G or was it a heat issue? Thanks in advance for the insight! :)

Yep, 3G is a whole different chip so you won't be upgrade an existing iPhone. And power consumption and heat are pretty much two sides of the same coin; the more electricity flowing through the silicon, the more heat you create.

I wouldn't expect Apple to release a 3G phone anytime soon, and even then the 2G phones will likely have better battery life. But hey, miracles do happen. :D