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MacRumors
Oct 15, 2007, 10:55 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

AppleInsider continues (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/15/road_mac_os_x_leopard_mail_3_0.html) with their Leopard series with a look at Mac OS X Leopard's Mail 3.0.In Leopard, Mail 3.0 (below) gets its biggest leap forward yet. Its window follows the unified Leopard window appearance, with squared off window corners that look like more like iTunes. As with earlier releases, many of its new enhancements come from integration with other new or improved services in Mac OS X.
The new Mail client introduces ToDo lists an Notes which are expected to eventually sync with the iPhone. Apple also reintroduces Data Detectors:
Emails in Mail that contain a date, phone number, or a contact (such within an email signature) are tagged with a drop down menu. Click on it and select "Create New Contact," and Data Detectors will scrape together as much as it can from the email: the name, mailing address, email address, phone and fax numbers, and copy them into a contact entry ready for your editing (below).
Apple also details (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/mail.html) many of the new Mail features on their website and provides a QuickTime movie (http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/mac/macosx/2007/wwdc/apple-leopard-mail_iref.mov) demonstration.

Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard is rumored to be released on October 26th, with Gold Master expected to be declared this week.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/15/mac-os-x-leopard-mail-3-0/)



Eidorian
Oct 15, 2007, 10:58 AM
I really like the history they provide to an application.

I live in Mail. :rolleyes:

rubberduck007
Oct 15, 2007, 11:02 AM
I really like the history they provide to an application.

I live in Mail. :rolleyes:

I've never used it - I have to use the shiiiiiiiite Novell Groupwise here at work - what a pile of poo!

oldMac
Oct 15, 2007, 11:04 AM
"Apple also reintroduces Data Detectors..."

Does everybody else remember how cool this feature was when we got it back in 1997? (Somewhere around there.)

I have missed this functionality. Thank goodness they remembered to bring it back!

flopticalcube
Oct 15, 2007, 11:07 AM
I remember using Mail's ancestor in 1989 on my first NeXT cube. It was great then and its even greater now.

shoelessone
Oct 15, 2007, 11:10 AM
I would love to use Mail, but it doesn't properly sync with gmail (I want the two to stay in sync, if I sent an email via mail I want it in my sent folder, if I read an email on gmail, I want it "read" in Mail, etc, etc).

If there was a good solution to this, I'd love to use mail while at home.

j-a-x
Oct 15, 2007, 11:12 AM
iCal already has a to-do list. Does that mean I'll have two separate to-do lists (one in iCal and one in Mail)? Or are they dropping to-do in iCal? I don't like either of these options because my iCal to-do syncs with my Nokia cell phone and I use it a lot. I also have a widget for viewing it in dashboard. I hope, if anything the Mail to-do list will integrate with the iCal to-do list.

Macinposh
Oct 15, 2007, 11:12 AM
How about making the mail stable?

If you create 2-4 new mails, put in 5MB+ of files in each you are gonna run in trouble..

About 25% of the time the Mail crashes.


Hopefully they will fix the file handling and performance.

samh004
Oct 15, 2007, 11:13 AM
I hope .Mac gets a compatibility update when Leopard is released to have an accurate "Notes" folder online. When I briefly tried out Leopard months ago, the Notes folder online was just a standard folder and didn't work well, so I expect official compatibility when it ships.

caspartheghost
Oct 15, 2007, 11:20 AM
There are so many basic things missing from Mail (like even bullet points) and so many incompatibilities and problems that need addressing before Apple starts adding features. I mean, how is 'making it look like the rest of Leopard' a big step forward? It's so... So what?

grappler
Oct 15, 2007, 11:23 AM
Wonder if there are plans to let Mail use the Gmail api to talk to a gmail account?

I like that the mail app in the iphone can read gmail, but it doesn't behave like gmail. It doesn't do the threaded conversations, it doesn't distinguish between sent and received messages, and the read/unread tags don't sync up.

It would be best of all worlds if both Mail and iPhone's mail app synced with gmail, imho.

uraniumwilly
Oct 15, 2007, 11:23 AM
I remember when were supposed to be composing our email using voice recognition by 2000.

[Ducks]

But hey, looks nice. I'll use the heck out of it.

swindmill
Oct 15, 2007, 11:24 AM
iCal already has a to-do list. Does that mean I'll have two separate to-do lists (one in iCal and one in Mail)? Or are they dropping to-do in iCal? I don't like either of these options because my iCal to-do syncs with my Nokia cell phone and I use it a lot. I also have a widget for viewing it in dashboard. I hope, if anything the Mail to-do list will integrate with the iCal to-do list.

They are integrated. If you make a To-Do in Mail, it will appear in iCal.

Donnacha
Oct 15, 2007, 11:26 AM
Lovely ...

... but will I be able to use it with my GMail and Google Apps email accounts?

bigjohn
Oct 15, 2007, 11:27 AM
I like how all these things are eventually expected to sync with the iphone but they never do

xUKHCx
Oct 15, 2007, 11:29 AM
I like how all these things are eventually expected to sync with the iphone but they never do

never do ???

Leopard hasn't been released yet, apple wouldn't want to give away any (potential) secrets before launch.

coolbreeze
Oct 15, 2007, 11:30 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3A109a Safari/419.3)

I like how all these things are eventually expected to sync with the iphone but they never do

Whatever enhancements they do to Mail, I really hope todos sync with the iPhone. Not web-based, but an actuall app.

wrldwzrd89
Oct 15, 2007, 11:30 AM
Lovely ...

... but will I be able to use it with my GMail and Google Apps email accounts?
I have to agree with Donnacha here... does it integrate properly with GMail? (I don't use the other Google Apps services at the moment, but I might in the future.)

superleccy
Oct 15, 2007, 11:36 AM
One of the very few things I miss about Windows (and there really aren't many) is the formatting toolbar in Outlook (or Outlook Express) compose window. You can change font, colour, size and emphasis without having to open separate font and colour inspectors.

I've seen this pi$s off a few potential switchers.

SL

deep
Oct 15, 2007, 11:37 AM
I have to agree with Donnacha here... does it integrate properly with GMail? (I don't use the other Google Apps services at the moment, but I might in the future.)

I'm not sure why everyone is asking about GMail compatibility. I use the current version of Mail to read my GMail account with no problems or issues. It's set up as a POP account. IMAP for GMail would be welcomed but Google's policy is to implement POP instead to save on overhead.

Am I missing something here?

BornAgainMac
Oct 15, 2007, 11:39 AM
Please shoot me now. I keep refreshing the Apple.com page wishing for a countdown. Looking forward to upgraded to Mail 3.0. I like that they are making it more than just simple email.

Lepton
Oct 15, 2007, 11:39 AM
I thought the problem with GMail integration is on GMail's side? GMail does POP and not IMAP, that seems to be the main problem. But, I'm not familiar with GMail APIs and what they might be able to do.

shoelessone
Oct 15, 2007, 11:39 AM
I'm not sure why everyone is asking about GMail compatibility. I use the current version of Mail to read my GMail account with no problems or issues. It's set up as a POP account. IMAP for GMail would be welcomed but Google's policy is to implement POP instead to save on overhead.

Am I missing something here?

Yes, we want everything synced.

If I read an email in Mail, I want it to be read in gMail.

Not really Apple/Mails fault, but still the issue most of us have.

wrldwzrd89
Oct 15, 2007, 11:39 AM
I'm not sure why everyone is asking about GMail compatibility. I use the current version of Mail to read my GMail account with no problems or issues. It's set up as a POP account. IMAP for GMail would be welcomed but Google's policy is to implement POP instead to save on overhead.

Am I missing something here?
Yes - you make a valid point, which makes a lot of sense. However, you overlooked the fact that GMail does not currently sync correctly through Mail.app with portable devices like the iPhone and with services like .Mac. That's what people like myself are looking for.

Donnacha
Oct 15, 2007, 11:45 AM
I'm not sure why everyone is asking about GMail compatibility. I use the current version of Mail to read my GMail account with no problems or issues. It's set up as a POP account. IMAP for GMail would be welcomed but Google's policy is to implement POP instead to save on overhead.

Am I missing something here?
As someone actually using it, you'll know this better than me but what I'm going on about is the way in which GMail uses a non-standard folder system and that makes things messy when hooking into it with a POP client, in particular the way it handles Sent mail.

Obviously, it is Google, not Apple, who have veered from the standard BUT, given that Gmail and Google Apps are used by a huge number of Mac users, Apple should step up and add to Mail the additional logic necessary to properly interpret Google's system - it is an absolute travesty that some of the most advanced users are forced to use Webmail while an otherwise great mail application sits there unused.

arkmannj
Oct 15, 2007, 11:46 AM
I've never used it - I have to use the shiiiiiiiite Novell Groupwise here at work - what a pile of poo!

Our company just switched from GroupWise to Outlook about 6 months ago.
consider yourself lucky, most employees (myself included) miss GroupWise. I was much more productive in Groupwise than OutPoop. I think the biggest problem with Groupwise, isn't GroupWise itself but how companies deploy it; most companies castrate it for some reason (I'm guessing laziness being the primary reason)

of course I am always happy at home with my mac mail.
Does anyone know if the To-Do's in Mail 3 will be shared with iCal. To-Do's seem to be a bit of an item that would cross the boundries of the two apps.

EDIT: about the question above, sorry I shoulda read ALL of the forum posts before asking, looks like it has already been answered, sorry & thanks.
~AM

Hmm
Oct 15, 2007, 11:53 AM
"Apple also reintroduces Data Detectors..."

Does everybody else remember how cool this feature was when we got it back in 1997? (Somewhere around there.)

I have missed this functionality. Thank goodness they remembered to bring it back!

Yup, I remembered being disappointed when I first realized it wasn't in OS X. I searched all over Apple's website trying to figure out how to get it to work and realized it was never implemented. I'll be glad to see if coming back.

Donnacha
Oct 15, 2007, 11:54 AM
I thought the problem with GMail integration is on GMail's side? GMail does POP and not IMAP, that seems to be the main problem. But, I'm not familiar with GMail APIs and what they might be able to do.
Well, even if they did IMAP it would have to be a non-standard implementation because of all the non-standard stuff that GMail does, the very stuff that makes it so useful.

The onus is on Apple to make this work because, as far as Google are concerned, it is in their interests that we access they service (and their ads) via our browsers.

Apple's interests, on the other hand, are to have their apps weave themselves into as many lives as possible, increasing their hold on their customer-base and creating even more enthusiastic Mac advocates. Accessing email is one of the main things I use computers for and, at the moment, my experience in doing so is identical on every OS - that's a lost opportunity for Apple.

dondiego87
Oct 15, 2007, 11:54 AM
One of the very few things I miss about Windows (and there really aren't many) is the formatting toolbar in Outlook (or Outlook Express) compose window. You can change font, colour, size and emphasis without having to open separate font and colour inspectors.


Sweet gumdrops, that would be wonderful.


The data detection functionality (specifically for dates) is actually the main reason I'm considering purchasing a copy of Leopard. It seems like such a waste.

danielwsmithee
Oct 15, 2007, 11:57 AM
Yes - you make a valid point, which makes a lot of sense. However, you overlooked the fact that GMail does not currently sync correctly through Mail.app with portable devices like the iPhone and with services like .Mac. That's what people like myself are looking for.It can't do that without IMAP support though on the GMAIL side.

sAy2k
Oct 15, 2007, 11:58 AM
...or am I doing something wrong?

I've never been able to get Mail to properly sync with IMAP. Thus resorting me to use thunderbird. Although a great program, lacks the ability to fully integrate into the MAC environment and all of the other Mac programs.

Probably best to post this question in the forums I suppose, but does anyone else have problems with IMAP and Mail? The problem for me is that I can't save my sent emails or drafts to the IMAP folder, it just sits on the local drive ( I get an error about not being able to connect or it can't do it... been using TB for a few months now because I got frustrated) To me, that kind of defeats the purpose if you have a work machine and say a laptop.

wrldwzrd89
Oct 15, 2007, 11:59 AM
Well, even if they did IMAP it would have to be a non-standard implementation because of all the non-standard stuff that GMail does, the very stuff that makes it so useful.

The onus is on Apple to make this work because, as far as Google are concerned, it is in their interests that we access they service (and their ads) via our browsers.

Apple's interests, on the other hand, are to have their apps weave themselves into as many lives as possible, increasing their hold on their customer-base and creating even more enthusiastic Mac advocates. Accessing email is one of the main things I use computers for and, at the moment, my experience in doing so is identical on every OS - that's a lost opportunity for Apple.
Very well put! I couldn't agree more.
What I fail to understand, when it comes to Google, is why some features in the browser version of GMail don't work in all browsers.:confused: Besides that, I would love to see Donnacha's idea implemented in Mail 3.0... it would make Mail so much better.

JFreak
Oct 15, 2007, 11:59 AM
How about making the mail stable? If you create 2-4 new mails, put in 5MB+ of files in each you are gonna run in trouble.. About 25% of the time the Mail crashes. Hopefully they will fix the file handling and performance.

Wow, your internet connection must suck big time. I have never had Mail.app crash on me and it's on 24/7 doing lotsa work for all of the family. Sometimes when the DSL line crashes Mail.app keeps asking for passwords, but it still keeps functioning after the DSL connection is up again.

wrldwzrd89
Oct 15, 2007, 12:01 PM
It can't do that without IMAP support though on the GMAIL side.
That's true... but at least Apple could make one-way sync work, so we could read our emails on our iPod Touches and iPhones. I don't have either but I've heard reports that this currently doesn't work right.:(

CWallace
Oct 15, 2007, 12:01 PM
The more I see of Leopard, the more I like it and the more excited I am to use it.

liberty4all
Oct 15, 2007, 12:05 PM
After all this time, STILL no return receipt functionality! :-(

Hattig
Oct 15, 2007, 12:05 PM
...or am I doing something wrong?

I've never been able to get Mail to properly sync with IMAP. Thus resorting me to use thunderbird. Although a great program, lacks the ability to fully integrate into the MAC environment and all of the other Mac programs.

Probably best to post this question in the forums I suppose, but does anyone else have problems with IMAP and Mail? The problem for me is that I can't save my sent emails or drafts to the IMAP folder, it just sits on the local drive ( I get an error about not being able to connect or it can't do it... been using TB for a few months now because I got frustrated) To me, that kind of defeats the purpose if you have a work machine and say a laptop.

Yeah, Mail.app's IMAP support is a complete joke that makes the entire application worthless to anyone that uses IMAP (and you all should if you have the option). I don't have the same problem as you, I get Mail.app waiting for minutes on end to update the IMAP folder I'm reading, when Thunderbird and Evolution can do it in under 1 second. I commented on this on the AppleInsider article too.

Manatee
Oct 15, 2007, 12:07 PM
The new Mail client introduces ToDo lists an Notes which are expected to eventually sync with the iPhone.

All right! The race is on... Outlook has ToDo lists and Notes which are expected to eventually sync with other PDA/smartphones... about ten years ago.

C'mon Apple, I love my iPhone, but give me some reasons to leave my Blackberry at home.

arkmannj
Oct 15, 2007, 12:07 PM
Please shoot me now. I keep refreshing the Apple.com page wishing for a countdown. Looking forward to upgraded to Mail 3.0. I like that they are making it more than just simple email.

me too.

I'm sure I'll get smacked around for saying this, but one thing I miss from Groupwise / Outlook is having the calendar, email, to-do' all in one app. I know there are good arguments for keeping them separate, but it would be somewhat convenient for my uses to have them together at times; I think Apple could do it with a clean, nice interface and without all the mess that outlook/Entourage has.

if they did ever combine the two apps, it would be cool if they had a quick connect option for Google apps. Just put in your google account and it sync's your calendar, email, to-do's etc... (and add this ability to the iPhone as well) that would just get me all excited and warm fuzzies for a long time.

tcoleman
Oct 15, 2007, 12:10 PM
After all this time, STILL no return receipt functionality! :-(

Thank goodness for that! :p

jonatron
Oct 15, 2007, 12:12 PM
You're right, the gmail set up isn't quite perfect but I use it quite happily. I guess its just not good for your requirements.

I have it set so that it removes mail from the gmail inbox when its collected by mail. That means that when I'm away from my mac i can see any new messages i have received as they wont have been removed. You can get gmail to retain all the messages that are received and sent as well. So when i go to sent items they are there including the ones sent from mail and and if you click 'all mail' from the gmail menu you have a copy of all the emails you have received too. Just remember to use smtp.gmail.com as the outgoing mail address. It does work so just give me a shout if youd like me to clarify anything.

:)


I would love to use Mail, but it doesn't properly sync with gmail (I want the two to stay in sync, if I sent an email via mail I want it in my sent folder, if I read an email on gmail, I want it "read" in Mail, etc, etc).

If there was a good solution to this, I'd love to use mail while at home.

casperghst42
Oct 15, 2007, 12:19 PM
...or am I doing something wrong?
Probably best to post this question in the forums I suppose, but does anyone else have problems with IMAP and Mail? The problem for me is that I can't save my sent emails or drafts to the IMAP folder, it just sits on the local drive ( I get an error about not being able to connect or it can't do it... been using TB for a few months now because I got frustrated) To me, that kind of defeats the purpose if you have a work machine and say a laptop.

Select Trash, Sent, etc. the menu -> MailBox -> Use this MailBox for ....

Then it'll store your mails on the server.

/Casper

ddubbo
Oct 15, 2007, 12:21 PM
I thought the problem with GMail integration is on GMail's side? GMail does POP and not IMAP, that seems to be the main problem. But, I'm not familiar with GMail APIs and what they might be able to do.
Im working with Gmail via ancient Outlook Express - no troubles at all

Multimedia
Oct 15, 2007, 12:27 PM
That really looks great. I wish there was a way to compose HTML email from scratch. Anyone know how to do that on the Mac?

Project
Oct 15, 2007, 12:29 PM
jesus NeXTSTEP was waaaay ahead of its time.



As got Gmail, I am actually surprised that Google does not offer an IMAP-like solution given the disruptive nature of the product. Sure, Google would like you to use the web based client 99 times out of 100 to expose you to their adds, but i'd have thought having all of that email passing through their servers would be the main benefit... enabling them to build up a great profile of the user tied to that Google Account.

Cloudsurfer
Oct 15, 2007, 12:31 PM
That RSS thingy is what I want.

arkmannj
Oct 15, 2007, 12:34 PM
That really looks great. I wish there was a way to compose HTML email from scratch. Anyone know how to do that on the Mac?

Good point, perhaps a way to view/edit the HTML directly ? that would be sweeeet !

would make for a great advanced feature for "power users" and wouldn't be something that average Joe would need to worry about day to day if they don't want to.

arkmannj
Oct 15, 2007, 12:37 PM
I wonder how well Mail could handle 1TB worth of emails... (assuming average size of each email is about 1-2MB)

question fear
Oct 15, 2007, 12:42 PM
Well, even if they did IMAP it would have to be a non-standard implementation because of all the non-standard stuff that GMail does, the very stuff that makes it so useful.

The onus is on Apple to make this work because, as far as Google are concerned, it is in their interests that we access they service (and their ads) via our browsers.

Apple's interests, on the other hand, are to have their apps weave themselves into as many lives as possible, increasing their hold on their customer-base and creating even more enthusiastic Mac advocates. Accessing email is one of the main things I use computers for and, at the moment, my experience in doing so is identical on every OS - that's a lost opportunity for Apple.

I agree Apple needs to work at improving Gmail, but to be fair I have yet to see Gmail behave well with 90% of the mail clients out there. GMail is built around the web interface because Google makes a shitton off the contextual ads. They obviously don't get that when you d/l to your mail client. I have tried GMail on my mac, on my iphone, with thunderbird, with literally 3 different mail clients on my old Treo...and the only way I was able to even make it remotely workable was to use the web interface on my main computer and only download mail to my mobile devices.
I am not a programmer, but given the sheer number of mail clients that choke, screw up, overdownload, or otherwise can't handle GMail, I would think it's more than "Apple tweaks two things and BOOM, happy GMail." There's so many issues with GMail, like the way archiving doesn't mean it's not going to get yanked by a mail client, that I would think it would require some collaboration from Google to make it work properly.
And besides, Apple wants you all to cave and use .Mac ;-)

Macinposh
Oct 15, 2007, 12:44 PM
Wow, your internet connection must suck big time. I have never had Mail.app crash on me and it's on 24/7 doing lotsa work for all of the family. Sometimes when the DSL line crashes Mail.app keeps asking for passwords, but it still keeps functioning after the DSL connection is up again.


Cant be my connection..?

4 different computers (MP,iBook,G4,MBP) do it under 3 different service providers.

If I put say 3 mails, put 10-15MB worth of pictures in them,I can put 2 mails to "send". If I "send" the 3rd,then usually ***** hits the fan.
Mail goes down.
The magic number seems to be about 20MB what the outbox can handle before it goes unstable.
At least with me..

I allways tought that it was normal for mail? :confused:

jackc
Oct 15, 2007, 12:44 PM
Improved search within Mail would be nice.

wrldwzrd89
Oct 15, 2007, 12:46 PM
Improved search within Mail would be nice.
Really? What's wrong with the current search feature? I find that it works quite well, at least if the vast majority of the mail you're searching through is stored locally on your Mac, like mine is.

jackc
Oct 15, 2007, 12:49 PM
Really? What's wrong with the current search feature? I find that it works quite well, at least if the vast majority of the mail you're searching through is stored locally on your Mac, like mine is.

I've had cases where a search from Gmail was more successful than one in Mail for the same messages, other people have had similar experiences. And an interface for doing advanced searches could come in handy.

Project
Oct 15, 2007, 12:56 PM
Please tell me I can change the font in Notes and ToDo. What the hell is that? marker pen? Yuck.

As for search, Apple Mail has far more capabilities than Gmail. I much prefer it.

bilbo--baggins
Oct 15, 2007, 01:05 PM
Improved search within Mail would be nice.

I find the search facility to be amazing already. I hardly bother organising my emails now because I know it's so quick and easy to search for anything.

Prof.
Oct 15, 2007, 01:18 PM
C'mon leopard where are you? WE WANT LEOPARD! Steve, where's Leopard?:D

Prof. :apple:

mnb
Oct 15, 2007, 01:20 PM
I think Mail 2.0 works fine with gmail. I've been using it with it for quite some time.

What I want to know is if Apple has finally fixed their IMAP support to login using the proper command? Mail issues a LIST command instead of LSUB after logging in to an IMAP server, which is incorrect. It can cause the client to download thousands of folders and emails on a shared folder system, essentially brining your Mac to it's knees.

wrldwzrd89
Oct 15, 2007, 01:22 PM
I think Mail 2.0 works fine with gmail. I've been using it with it for quite some time.

What I want to know is if Apple has finally fixed their IMAP support to login using the proper command? Mail issues a LIST command instead of LSUB after logging in to an IMAP server, which is incorrect. It can cause the client to download thousands of folders and emails on a shared folder system, essentially brining your Mac to it's knees.
Gosh... that explains why my Mac is so darn pokey at downloading new emails on IMAP accounts. Thanks for the info, I too hope this gets fixed.

bamadave
Oct 15, 2007, 01:26 PM
There are so many basic things missing from Mail (like even bullet points) and so many incompatibilities and problems that need addressing before Apple starts adding features. I mean, how is 'making it look like the rest of Leopard' a big step forward? It's so... So what?

Bullet points - the entire business world revolves around them, so why doesn't Apple add this very simple feature? Honestly, how do their employees send "lists" to each other using Mac Mail, or do they use Outlook in Cupertino?

The lack of this feature is baffling.

Montserrat
Oct 15, 2007, 01:27 PM
I would love to use Mail, but it doesn't properly sync with gmail (I want the two to stay in sync, if I sent an email via mail I want it in my sent folder, if I read an email on gmail, I want it "read" in Mail, etc, etc).

If there was a good solution to this, I'd love to use mail while at home.

I know - it's slightly annoying isn't it. I solved it by making a mail rule (via preferences) that automatically marks an email as read and puts it into my 'Sent' folder if the sender is me. Hope that is of some use to you.

Montserrat
Oct 15, 2007, 01:28 PM
Bullet points - the entire business world revolves around them, so why doesn't Apple add this very simple feature? Honestly, how do their employees send "lists" to each other using Mac Mail, or do they use Outlook in Cupertino?

The lack of this feature is baffling.

alt-8 gives you a manual bullet point IIRC - not perfect, but some sort of solution
•••• :)

HLdan
Oct 15, 2007, 01:31 PM
How about making the mail stable?

If you create 2-4 new mails, put in 5MB+ of files in each you are gonna run in trouble..

About 25% of the time the Mail crashes.


Hopefully they will fix the file handling and performance.

Not to knock your post because any fix to no-so-perfect app is always welcome but I think what you are trying to do is a bit extreme for email. At my job (which lives on email) we never create multiple emails with 5MB+ files attached to each. That's actually a lot, most email clients allow for no more than 2MB file transfers or that much on the receiving end.
So if only 25% of the time you get a crash after doing all that heavy work that's actually pretty understandable.

siren77
Oct 15, 2007, 01:32 PM
You're right, the gmail set up isn't quite perfect but I use it quite happily. I guess its just not good for your requirements.

I have it set so that it removes mail from the gmail inbox when its collected by mail. That means that when I'm away from my mac i can see any new messages i have received as they wont have been removed. You can get gmail to retain all the messages that are received and sent as well. So when i go to sent items they are there including the ones sent from mail and and if you click 'all mail' from the gmail menu you have a copy of all the emails you have received too. Just remember to use smtp.gmail.com as the outgoing mail address. It does work so just give me a shout if youd like me to clarify anything.

:)

I would love to use Mail, but it doesn't properly sync with gmail (I want the two to stay in sync, if I sent an email via mail I want it in my sent folder, if I read an email on gmail, I want it "read" in Mail, etc, etc).

If there was a good solution to this, I'd love to use mail while at home.

Ok I was planning to use Mail to manage my gmail after I got Leopard, but those 2 comments contradict each other and now I'm confused. Exactly what are the main problems for using gmail within Mail? I understand that "read" mails do not sync. What else?

hayesk
Oct 15, 2007, 01:40 PM
Bullet points - the entire business world revolves around them, so why doesn't Apple add this very simple feature? Honestly, how do their employees send "lists" to each other using Mac Mail, or do they use Outlook in Cupertino?

Uhm... they press Option-8 to make a bullet.

Macinposh
Oct 15, 2007, 01:43 PM
Not to knock your post because any fix to no-so-perfect app is always welcome but I think what you are trying to do is a bit extreme for email.


Pity that it is almost mandatory for me and my clients.

We send/select pictures,check the proofs and comment on the post-production this wise.
Obviously the final pictures usually gets send around via ftp.

But in many,many,many cases the magazine spreads/covers get send around via mail as it might be the only way in that timeframe.

So yes,un-usuall maybe.
But a way of work that wont go away.

So a bit more robust system would be appreciated.
:)

happydude
Oct 15, 2007, 02:00 PM
I've never used it - I have to use the shiiiiiiiite Novell Groupwise here at work - what a pile of poo!

novell is the worst. ever. i use mail for personal email accounts which works great. excited for the new version but i hope they fix the gmail "read" mail probs.

twoodcc
Oct 15, 2007, 02:13 PM
they continue to do a good job with these.

we still need a release date though

xUKHCx
Oct 15, 2007, 02:16 PM
they continue to do a good job with these.

we still need a release date though

It'll happen at midnight tonight to start the count down at a nice even number

psychofreak
Oct 15, 2007, 02:17 PM
they continue to do a good job with these.

we still need a release date though

Yes, Appleinsider has really improved their skills at writing, partly because their rumours aren't so accurate I guess..

SiliconAddict
Oct 15, 2007, 02:22 PM
Can you finally archive? Apple's mail app really is a piss poor excuse for anything other then the most basic of mail applications. Or at the very least needing to flip from app to app for e-mail\calendar is annoying as heck. At least to-do's are finally here, which IS a step in the right direction. I do like the concept of Detectors though. Potentially powerful depending on how "smart" it is.

wrldwzrd89
Oct 15, 2007, 02:28 PM
Can you finally archive? Apple's mail app really is a piss poor excuse for anything other then the most basic of mail applications. Or at the very least needing to flip from app to app for e-mail\calendar is annoying as heck. At least to-do's are finally there.
Archiving support isn't really needed since you can always move messages to mailbox folders located on your Mac as a form of archival. That's what I do, and it works perfectly for my needs.

xUKHCx
Oct 15, 2007, 02:31 PM
Archiving support isn't really needed since you can always move messages to mailbox folders located on your Mac as a form of archival. That's what I do, and it works perfectly for my needs.

Do they still show up in the correct mail account. Would be good for an actual button to press though rather than jiggery pokery.

wrldwzrd89
Oct 15, 2007, 02:32 PM
Do they still show up in the correct mail account. Would be good for an actual button to press though rather than jiggery pokery.
The answer is no - once archived in this way, the messages are no longer associated with any of your Mail accounts.

smueboy
Oct 15, 2007, 02:36 PM
I love Mail, and with notes, To Do lists and RSS in the one place it's looking better and better!

Virgil-TB2
Oct 15, 2007, 02:45 PM
...So yes,un-usuall maybe.
But a way of work that wont go away....I think the point you are missing here is that this is not really a Mail problem and more likely a problem with your mail service provider or your attachments.

You started off implying that Mail is bad because it doesn't do this thing you want that you initially positioned as a standard, normal thing. (it's not)

Then when people explain that it's not really a normal thing you are asking it to do, and that Mail's response to your request is fairly typical in that regard, you make out like you knew all along that was the case. Sounds to me like you are just trolling.

If Mail is chocking on your gigantic attachments, then usually either one of two things are at fault:

- your ISP limits mail attachment size.
- you have a corrupt or otherwise crapped up attachment.

Both of these things are ultimately your responsibility, not Mail's.

If you had evidence of some other email program that allows you to send these attachments, what kind of attachments you are trying to send, or an indication of what size of attachments your email service allows, then you could start to build a case from that against Mail.

Given the information you have provided however, it seems like you are just dissing Mail for something it was never intended to do and that you already knew it couldn't do.

i.e. - Trolling.

lazyrighteye
Oct 15, 2007, 02:56 PM
Personally, I am looking forward to a more robust Mail.
I use Mail daily, via iPhone and MacBook. And unlike others, I have no real issues with features/functionality. So far, so good.
Mail 3 looks even better...

Which is to say... where the F is a Leopard announcememnt?

grappler
Oct 15, 2007, 03:02 PM
I'm not sure why everyone is asking about GMail compatibility. I use the current version of Mail to read my GMail account with no problems or issues. It's set up as a POP account. IMAP for GMail would be welcomed but Google's policy is to implement POP instead to save on overhead.

Am I missing something here?

Yes.

Gmail has its own api, which lets you do things in a more gmail kind of way. Like using tags rather than folders, for instance.

It's a step beyond the out-of-date POP/IMAP ways of doing things.

grappler
Oct 15, 2007, 03:08 PM
Very well put! I couldn't agree more.
What I fail to understand, when it comes to Google, is why some features in the browser version of GMail don't work in all browsers.:confused: Besides that, I would love to see Donnacha's idea implemented in Mail 3.0... it would make Mail so much better.

Exactly.

It's simple: To get the map experience right on the iPhone, Apple wrote a native app to access Google Maps.

So why not do that to get the gmail experience right? Or the calendar? These are two of the most obvious things you would want a "smart" phone to do.

jstad
Oct 15, 2007, 03:09 PM
best new feature seems to be the address book "add to contact". I hate adding contacts and filling out gobs of information. If it looks it up for you that is much better in my book. I hope they implement a three-wide layout like Outlook 2003/2007 have without the use of a hack (which still doesn't give the exact effect).

aranhamo
Oct 15, 2007, 03:23 PM
Cant be my connection..?

4 different computers (MP,iBook,G4,MBP) do it under 3 different service providers.

If I put say 3 mails, put 10-15MB worth of pictures in them,I can put 2 mails to "send". If I "send" the 3rd,then usually ***** hits the fan.
Mail goes down.
The magic number seems to be about 20MB what the outbox can handle before it goes unstable.
At least with me..

I allways tought that it was normal for mail? :confused:

My ISP allows up to 20MB for e-mail attachments. We frequently send pictures around to the family totaling upwards of 15MB, and I don't recall ever having Mail crash on me at all. My mom just sent us pictures yesterday that just barely squeaked in under the 20MB limit (she uses Mail, and has a 20MB limit on attachments too).

frysco
Oct 15, 2007, 03:24 PM
What I want to know is if Apple has finally fixed their IMAP support to login using the proper command? Mail issues a LIST command instead of LSUB after logging in to an IMAP server, which is incorrect. It can cause the client to download thousands of folders and emails on a shared folder system, essentially brining your Mac to it's knees.

Certainly, until Mail.app begins supporting folder subscriptions, I have not and will not be using it.

I am curious, though, where it is mentioned that LSUB should be issued after authenticating with an IMAP server. In a brief look over RFC2060, I can't find that mentioned.

liberty4all
Oct 15, 2007, 03:57 PM
What is the best ISP with IMAP mail service? Comcast sure does not have it...

An IMAP ISP is better for dual use with an iPhone...

TIA for suggestions.

operator207
Oct 15, 2007, 03:58 PM
Apple: Get Mail.app to natively support these two features of IMAP, and I'll be happy.

IDLE
IMAP_ENHANCEDIDLE

IDLE is great, and it "kinda" supports it, if you want good functionality, like tbird, when it comes to multiple imap folders, and quick updates, IMAP_ENHANCEDIDLE is the only way to do it. Hell mutt has that functionality, and has had it for years.

enhanced IDLE mode, where multiple clients may open the same folder concurrently, and receive updates to folder contents in realtime.

A must have if you use server side filtering, where it filters incoming emails into different folders.
Also nice if you have multiple people reading off the same account on multiple machines.

Macinposh
Oct 15, 2007, 04:23 PM
Both of these things are ultimately your responsibility, not Mail's.

If you had evidence of some other email program that allows you to send these attachments, what kind of attachments you are trying to send, or an indication of what size of attachments your email service allows, then you could start to build a case from that against Mail.

Given the information you have provided however, it seems like you are just dissing Mail for something it was never intended to do and that you already knew it couldn't do.

i.e. - Trolling.

Oh,go fkuk yourself and your trolling.

Just to make sure that I am not misunderstood by you again.

1.I know my single email limit by my service providers (3 different,3 different locations as you apparently missed to read in my posts) is 50MB.
All the clients have open mail servers as do I.
There is occasions when I have sent a total of 300MB+ of pictures via mail to the client.
No problems.


2.And if i manage to send 75% of the time 2-7 emails, each 5-25MB (25 being the highes that I usually use) how the hell I cant do it the rest of the 25%? Ok,ok,maybe the closer percentage is around 15-20% when the mail goes down.

So tell me,how on earth could that be my internet service providers (remember,all 3 DIFFERENT of them) fault that my mail application crashes then? What kind of "signal" do they send that causes that?

3. The files are .jpg´s. Occasional TIFFs. Pictrures,you know?

4. What? Mail is not supposed to use to send files?
What on earth are you talking about?
Mail is used to send files all the bloody time!

Music files (via studios/musicians/produces/executives) , video files (QT clips of between ad/editors/clients),documets (PDFs and indy/freehand whatevers) and photographs.
That just what I and my clients send daily.

Are you telling them that they shouldnt do it because :
Mail for something it was never intended to do and that you already knew it couldn't do.


Stop being such a bloody apologist,will you please?

We have different uses for mail,as you can see.
It would help me and my clients a lot.

A simple,robust outbox, where I could unload say 5-10 mails with pictures.
Without worrying that when I leave it alone to send the mails, it goes belly up,sending only 3 1/2 mails,leaving the rest not only unsended,looses them in the process,so I have to compile the mails again.

Do you honestly think I am being unreasonable for wanting/needing that kind of properties and reliability?

Remember,we are living year 2007 now.

saxman
Oct 15, 2007, 04:26 PM
Does anyone know if Mail 3.0 offers Exchange support through MAPI? Or does it only work with Exchange servers with IMAP turned on?

Until then, I'll be sticking with Entourage since my IT department doesn't want to open IMAP on the Exchange server

midwich
Oct 15, 2007, 04:40 PM
...

i.e. - Trolling.

I'm just an innocent bystander here, but what with the SUPPORT RON PAUL sigs (I thought news comments were supposed to be nonpolitical?), and incredibly rude acusations of trollery towards anyone who expresses a view at odds with the HiveMind, anyone would think this is DailyKos :mad:

akac
Oct 15, 2007, 04:55 PM
Apple: Get Mail.app to natively support these two features of IMAP, and I'll be happy.

IDLE
IMAP_ENHANCEDIDLE

IDLE is great, and it "kinda" supports it, if you want good functionality, like tbird, when it comes to multiple imap folders, and quick updates, IMAP_ENHANCEDIDLE is the only way to do it. Hell mutt has that functionality, and has had it for years.

enhanced IDLE mode, where multiple clients may open the same folder concurrently, and receive updates to folder contents in realtime.

A must have if you use server side filtering, where it filters incoming emails into different folders.
Also nice if you have multiple people reading off the same account on multiple machines.

I know Mail 3 does support IDLE. I am not sure about IMAP_ENHANCEDIDLE, though.

brengla
Oct 15, 2007, 05:29 PM
I'm just an innocent bystander here, but what with the SUPPORT RON PAUL sigs (I thought news comments were supposed to be nonpolitical?), and incredibly rude acusations of trollery towards anyone who expresses a view at odds with the HiveMind, anyone would think this is DailyKos :mad:

Don't know or care about the political bit, but I agree about voicing an opinion. The guy stated what he was trying to do and it sounds reasonable in days of 7-8Mpix cameras becoming common place and people sending wads of photos. Anyway, if it is a problem and I've no reason to doubt the guy, let's just hope it gets sorted! No point everyone getting angry over nothing!

addicted44
Oct 15, 2007, 06:48 PM
Yeah, Mail.app's IMAP support is a complete joke that makes the entire application worthless to anyone that uses IMAP (and you all should if you have the option). I don't have the same problem as you, I get Mail.app waiting for minutes on end to update the IMAP folder I'm reading, when Thunderbird and Evolution can do it in under 1 second. I commented on this on the AppleInsider article too.

Have you guys checked your preferences?

Preferences>Accounts>Mailbox Behaviors

Check Store draft messages on server


(It works for me and should for you, in which case, changing the default settings (yes this was default in tiger at least) does not make Mail.app's IMAP implementation a joke.)

ErikGrim
Oct 15, 2007, 07:20 PM
Bullet points - the entire business world revolves around them, so why doesn't Apple add this very simple feature? Honestly, how do their employees send "lists" to each other using Mac Mail, or do they use Outlook in Cupertino?

The lack of this feature is baffling.You'll be happy to know that Mail 3.0 has lists of all kind.

rtdunham
Oct 15, 2007, 07:59 PM
The answer is no - once archived in this way, the messages are no longer associated with any of your Mail accounts.

i have just the opposite problem: on my iPhone, with Yahoo push mail activated, i have to check each account separately to see what's arrived. On my computer, in Mail app, incoming mail from four different accounts is consolidated into one inbox. Much more convenient for my purposes. Is there a way to consolidate the inbox on the iPhone?

Baron58
Oct 15, 2007, 08:20 PM
One thing I REALLY want is ALL ATTACHMENTS AS ICONS, and in a standard 'attachments' field, like ever other sane email client does. This 'render everything inline' and 'put attachments at arbitrary places' is so, so, so annoying and stupid. Please tell me this is fixed in Leopard. Having to pay for Mail Attachments Iconizer as a 3rd-party plugin to achieve half of that is also annoying and stupid. I only try to use Mail.app because it integrates with iPhoto and Address Book, and Thunderbird does not. Otherwise, Thunderbird is the best-featured most-standards-compliant mail client around.

The other feature that would be nice in a business setting is proper 'subscribe' functionality for IMAP folders as described by previous posters. I would have killed for that when I was managing a whole company of people using shared IMAP folders, but since I'm no longer doing that, I'll settle for the attachment improvements.

mdriftmeyer
Oct 15, 2007, 08:58 PM
I've never used it - I have to use the shiiiiiiiite Novell Groupwise here at work - what a pile of poo!

Buy your own domain name, purchase a Linux/OS X Box [mac mini comes to mind] and run QMailToaster for your own email domain. Then you can test Mail.app all you want.

http://www.qmailtoaster.com

psychofreak
Oct 15, 2007, 09:01 PM
You'll be happy to know that Mail 3.0 has lists of all kind.

Thanks, I was hoping for this too :)

Taylor C
Oct 15, 2007, 09:01 PM
I'm really looking forward to Notes syncing with my iPhone, hopefully To-Dos, and the built-in RSS reader.

psychofreak
Oct 15, 2007, 09:04 PM
I'm really looking forward to Notes syncing with my iPhone, hopefully To-Dos, and the built-in RSS reader.

Maybe it will lead to one less app in my Applications folder, as I doubt I'll be using NetNewsWire Lite any more...if I wasn't so stingy that I would pay for Newsfire then it would probably be a different story...

queshy
Oct 15, 2007, 11:06 PM
Mail in tiger is the best app ever... Can't wait for leopard!

DrEasy
Oct 15, 2007, 11:30 PM
That Detector thing will only be useful to me if I can use it in conjunction with Google Calendar (instead of iCal - I also need to consult my calendar online from Windows machines). Any guesses as to whether that will be possible?

mrpither
Oct 16, 2007, 12:46 AM
any beta testers out there have dslextreme as their isp and have tried IMAP with dslextreme's mail server? this does not work with the current version of mail in tiger, and neither dslextreme nor apple seem to know why. it can see messages in the inbox, can see the subfolders (sent, drafts, junk, trash) but can't see the messages in the sub folders - it returns the error message "unknown namespace". works in tbird without a hitch.

tia...

jackc
Oct 16, 2007, 01:04 AM
Maybe it will lead to one less app in my Applications folder, as I doubt I'll be using NetNewsWire Lite any more...if I wasn't so stingy that I would pay for Newsfire then it would probably be a different story...

That'll be interesting to see if it can replace NNW Lite, which is what I use as well. It's not a big deal to use a stand-alone app, I might still prefer it so I don't have to open and close the RSS folder in Mail with a huge number of feeds

JFreak
Oct 16, 2007, 01:28 AM
One thing I REALLY want is ALL ATTACHMENTS AS ICONS, and in a standard 'attachments' field, like ever other sane email client does. This 'render everything inline' and 'put attachments at arbitrary places' is so, so, so annoying and stupid. Please tell me this is fixed in Leopard.

I'd like to see a user preference about this. While I do like the way Tiger Mail handles attachments, I also understand your point of view. There should be a checkbox for this! You have submitted feature request, haven't you?

Analog Kid
Oct 16, 2007, 02:06 AM
Oh man, Data Detectors! What an miserable name to give something I've wanted on my desktop since I first saw the Newton demoed.

I'm as excited as a 5 year old on Christmas Eve!

tjcampbell
Oct 16, 2007, 03:41 AM
How about making the mail stable?

If you create 2-4 new mails, put in 5MB+ of files in each you are gonna run in trouble..

About 25% of the time the Mail crashes.


Hopefully they will fix the file handling and performance.

Yeah, I love mail, but it always crashes. So does Safari! Crashed when I was posting this.

sunfast
Oct 16, 2007, 03:49 AM
Another good article from AI. New mail looks great - let me have it already! :)

Confidemus
Oct 16, 2007, 08:25 AM
Hi,
does anybody know, whether it is possible to open multiple windows in Mail?
If so, is it possible to assign one mail account to one window and another mail account to the other window? Than it would be very nice to assign these windows to different spaces.
Best, Confidemus

wrldwzrd89
Oct 16, 2007, 08:52 AM
Hi,
does anybody know, whether it is possible to open multiple windows in Mail?
If so, is it possible to assign one mail account to one window and another mail account to the other window? Than it would be very nice to assign these windows to different spaces.
Best, Confidemus
You can open individual messages in their own window, but I don't know about the main interface.

liberty4all
Oct 16, 2007, 01:14 PM
So can I finally import html .sig files?

operator207
Oct 17, 2007, 09:35 AM
So can I finally import html .sig files?

Or something like sigrot? I had this working after awhile, though one of the mail upgrades a year or so ago, broke it. Never figured out why, since I moved back to mutt. Which does everything I need, and then some.