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MacRumors
Oct 16, 2007, 10:56 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

AppleInsider provides (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/16/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_ichat_4_0.html) a look at Leopard's updated iChat 4.0 application.

A couple of useful new features are detailed, including Document Sharing:
Any file that can be viewed with Quick Look can be "beamed" with document sharing. While the document is being shared, the sender sees it in a Quick Look panel view, while the viewer on the other end sees the document as a video chat.

and Screen Sharing:
There hasn't been a really simple and obvious way for users to set up a screen sharing session however. In the new iChat, it's effortless. Click the new screen sharing icon in iChat for any user that can support the feature, and it drops down two options: share my screen or request to share theirs. Once the user on the other end approves the connection, a VNC session is setup.[/i]

The appeal of Screen Sharing is that remote troubleshooting can be easily initiated without the requiring the end-user to go through a technical setup to enable screen sharing. Now, anyone who can iChat can share their screen if desired.

Apple also details (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/ichat.html) the features of iChat and has published a list of 300 new features (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html) found in Leopard.

Apple announced today (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/16/apple-officially-announces-mac-os-x-10-5-leopard/) that Mac OS X Leopard will go on sale on October 26th, 2007 at retail Apple Stores and you may pre-order it starting today.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/16/mac-os-x-leopard-ichat-4-0/)



Ibjr
Oct 16, 2007, 10:57 AM
Why wouldn't anyone address the performance questions? What settings does it just the desktop too, aprox speed, ect?

Eidorian
Oct 16, 2007, 10:58 AM
I hope that screen sharing can save me a trip to someone's office. :rolleyes:

xelphy
Oct 16, 2007, 11:03 AM
unbelievably still no mention of ichat! Craziness.. if they rollout ichat for iphone i MAY just abandon the hacks... as long as there's a todo list too!... there's a chance

CWallace
Oct 16, 2007, 11:08 AM
I don't use iChat, but the better it keeps getting, I might have to try it. :)

Aeolius
Oct 16, 2007, 11:10 AM
Would two users of 10.5 be able to share a simultaneous GarageBand jam session via an internet connection and screen sharing? I can videochat with my buddies, but I'd love to play together as a band, as well.

Manatee
Oct 16, 2007, 11:17 AM
I hope iChat shows up on the iPhone soon after 10.5 is released.

There are so many nice features in OS X that would be great on the iPhone.
- Finder
- Spotlight
- iChat

And it would be nice to have scaled-down phone versions of Pages and Numbers.

WildPalms
Oct 16, 2007, 11:20 AM
Would two users of 10.5 be able to share a simultaneous GarageBand jam session via an internet connection and screen sharing? I can videochat with my buddies, but I'd love to play together as a band, as well.

The timing would not be accurate between the two connections...unless you like inserting a two-step in your rock'n'roll jam :p

pacohaas
Oct 16, 2007, 11:21 AM
Would two users of 10.5 be able to share a simultaneous GarageBand jam session via an internet connection and screen sharing? I can videochat with my buddies, but I'd love to play together as a band, as well.

I've tried that, just with audio. The delay makes it impossible to share two ways, but I could certainly play along with what the rest of the band was playing. Basically everyone who's not in the same location as the drummer needs to mute their iChat mics or it gets messy. Pretty cool, but I doubt you'd want to waste bandwidth on screensharing when it's the audio that's important.

I suppose technically you could even record what you're playing on your local machine while listening to what the band is playing and playing along, but they still won't be able to hear what you're playing in real-time because of the delay. After practice, send them your audio file and have em add it to their garageband project with the right delay and you're good to go!

CavemanUK
Oct 16, 2007, 11:28 AM
Don't know what its like in the rest of the world but in the UK iChat is basically useless until it has native MSN support. I know it can via done via jabber but that goes against OSX's 'simplicity' initiative.

Come on apple! dont give me that licensing BS.. Other packages support it.. You cant tell me the guys that made Adium are paying a huge license fee and you cant afford it!

And again, Adium as an example.. the protocol is not that hard to figure out even without microsofts help.

M. Malone
Oct 16, 2007, 11:41 AM
"Text, audio, and video chat whether your buddies use a Mac or a PC."

I am yet to video chat with a PC that works with no issues, hopefully they did something to make it work nicely :)

uraniumwilly
Oct 16, 2007, 11:47 AM
After all the kitty cats are used up (Panther, Tiger, Leopard) and we've switched to fishes (e.g. "Barracuda," "Stingray,") and we finally reach "Stripped Bass," we will have finally purchased our Dick Tracy-like video iPhones. And that's going to be sooo cool.

nostaws
Oct 16, 2007, 12:24 PM
Text, audio, and video chat whether your buddies use a Mac or a PC."

I am yet to video chat with a PC that works with no issues, hopefully they did something to make it work nicely

This is the ONE app I would really like to see for the PC. I have also not been able to find an error free and seemless video chat solution for mac to pc.

I haven't tried skype yet.

twoodcc
Oct 16, 2007, 12:57 PM
great new features. looking forward to screen sharing for sho

sunfast
Oct 16, 2007, 01:13 PM
I'm really chuffed about screen sharing - my parents alway need my help and I've not been able to give it since we both switched to macs. But now we can!

lofight
Oct 16, 2007, 01:16 PM
i really like the backdrop effects, but the problem is: is use hotmail ( wich i really hate, i would rather want to use google talk and gmail, but everyone in my school uses hotmail) and i still havent found how to get the jabber thing working, in general :p can someone explain in short?? in pm maybe ?

mkrishnan
Oct 16, 2007, 01:21 PM
unbelievably still no mention of ichat! Craziness.. if they rollout ichat for iphone i MAY just abandon the hacks... as long as there's a todo list too!... there's a chance

Wouldn't the fact that the camera is on the back and the screen is on the front pose a barrier at this point?

shoelessone
Oct 16, 2007, 01:22 PM
Do all of you who use iChat have .Mac accounts?

It is basically impossible to actually get chat working for me or my friends. We are all charter users, but don't have .mac accounts.

I can't connect to my other iChat friends because there are always connection problems. Googling turns up a solution, which is to farward like 10 different port ranges. Seems rediculous.

Is there a secret I'm missing?

Orng
Oct 16, 2007, 01:22 PM
This is like, when they first invented the telephone, and your phone number was "5", but only two other people you knew had one, and they weren't necessarily people you wanted or needed to talk to, so you have this snazzy new telephone doing nothing.

Until I meet more people with iChat (ie, with a Mac) or even ONE person who uses AIM, whom I actually want or need to talk to, then all this really cool iChat technology is just taking up space on my hard drive.

Too bad, I'd love to use it, but it's useless.

shoelessone
Oct 16, 2007, 01:24 PM
This is like, when they first invented the telephone, and your phone number was "5", but only two other people you knew had one, and they weren't necessarily people you wanted or needed to talk to, so you have this snazzy new telephone doing nothing.

Until I meet more people with iChat (ie, with a Mac) or even ONE person who uses AIM, whom I actually want or need to talk to, then all this really cool iChat technology is just taking up space on my hard drive.

Too bad, I'd love to use it, but it's useless.

A/S/L? Cyber?

mkrishnan
Oct 16, 2007, 01:25 PM
Too bad, I'd love to use it, but it's useless.

I kinda agree. I would love it if I could AV chat with my parents. Will my parents ever have working AV hardware? Even if I get it for them, they will find a way to take it apart or make the software crash or change the network or something. :rolleyes: A few of my friends have webcams on Windows, but most of them are inept at installing new software and use MSN, so what I could really still use is better MSN AV inside OS X.

coolbreeze
Oct 16, 2007, 01:32 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3A109a Safari/419.3)

Google chat support would be nice.

mkrishnan
Oct 16, 2007, 01:33 PM
Google chat support would be nice.

Erm... :confused:

Do you mean Google Talk audio? Or do you mean on the iPhone?

sunfast
Oct 16, 2007, 01:34 PM
Do all of you who use iChat have .Mac accounts?

I've got an AOL account.

Too bad, I'd love to use it, but it's useless.

I'll only be using it to help my folks with their iMac. All of the IM stuff I do with my friends is on Adium (all Windows users on MSN)

jettredmont
Oct 16, 2007, 01:36 PM
The appeal of Screen Sharing is that remote troubleshooting can be easily initiated without the requiring the end-user to go through a technical setup to enable screen sharing. Now, anyone who can iChat can share their screen if desired.



So. Hmm. You know, there indeed are technical hurdles to sharing VNC over a network and across firewalls and NATs etc. I'm all for "tearing those down" if the end result is a secure system. But, they are there because VNC is NOT a secure system.

This is all supposition, and it is entirely possible that iChat will have far better security than VNC, AND require SSL encryption, etc. But until Apple says that's what it does ... well, I'm not a big fan of any random user on the internet being able to see what's on my screen at any minute of the day.

Project
Oct 16, 2007, 01:39 PM
Don't know what its like in the rest of the world but in the UK iChat is basically useless until it has native MSN support. I know it can via done via jabber but that goes against OSX's 'simplicity' initiative.

Come on apple! dont give me that licensing BS.. Other packages support it.. You cant tell me the guys that made Adium are paying a huge license fee and you cant afford it!

And again, Adium as an example.. the protocol is not that hard to figure out even without microsofts help.


Right.... so you want Apple to violate the MSN protocol and its terms and conditions of use? There is a huge difference between some open source project doing this and a $100bn corporation. Apple would be sued to high hell.

mkrishnan
Oct 16, 2007, 01:49 PM
Right.... so you want Apple to violate the MSN protocol and its terms and conditions of use? There is a huge difference between some open source project doing this and a $100bn corporation. Apple would be sued to high hell.

Microsoft negotiated interoperability with Yahoo, so it doesn't seem as if they are completely unwilling to come to the table. Give them some credit. They even took Flip4Mac under their wing in the past couple of years, giving implicit support to Quicktime in the OS X environment. Who expected that move?

Orng
Oct 16, 2007, 01:50 PM
A/S/L? Cyber?

I might not understand what your new-fangled gobbledygook means, but my wife says to tell you I'm married. Thanks for thinking of me, though :)

childlost
Oct 16, 2007, 01:54 PM
One new feature I would like iChat 4.0 to have is videoconferencing that WORKS, without giving you error messages half of the times. Skype does it. Why can't iChat do it too?

shoelessone
Oct 16, 2007, 01:54 PM
I might not understand what your new-fangled gobbledygook means, but my wife says to tell you I'm married. Thanks for thinking of me, though :)

haha

fyi, the proper response is always "15/F/Cali"

WildPalms
Oct 16, 2007, 01:57 PM
haha

fyi, the proper response is always "15/F/Cali"

LMAO

Project
Oct 16, 2007, 01:59 PM
Microsoft negotiated interoperability with Yahoo, so it doesn't seem as if they are completely unwilling to come to the table. Give them some credit. They even took Flip4Mac under their wing in the past couple of years, giving implicit support to Quicktime in the OS X environment. Who expected that move?

1. The Yahoo deal was a strategic move because of Google buying a stake in AOL. If MS was real about interoperability, they would support Jabber in Messenger

2. An easy/soft way out, after stopping development of Windows Media Player.

shoelessone
Oct 16, 2007, 02:00 PM
so, back to my questionish thing, do you all have trouble getting iChat to connect to other iChat users when you're just using AIM?

I have friends who live in Houghton, MI, in my apartment at school. They both have new MacBook Pros. They have comcast service.

I temp. live in mid Wisconsin, and have charter service. I have a linksys router, I forget what sort of router they have.

If we try to connect and video/voice chat, we get connection errors, 100% of the time.

psychofreak
Oct 16, 2007, 02:00 PM
Adium is great, but the clients for A/V with MSN aren't so good, and people here in the UK use MSN, so there's nothing much I can do...

Orng
Oct 16, 2007, 02:02 PM
haha

fyi, the proper response is always "15/F/Cali"

Maybe if you're an undercover cop :)

shoelessone
Oct 16, 2007, 02:04 PM
Adium is great, but the clients for A/V with MSN aren't so good, and people here in the UK use MSN, so there's nothing much I can do...

www.meebo.com

HelixOmnimedia
Oct 16, 2007, 02:05 PM
All these new features sound really cool... but I'll never get to use them.

None of my friends use Mac computer, and they all use MSN. :mad:

One feature I was hoping for (but knew it would come) would be the ability to use iChat with your other IM Account, and chat (with all the features) to others who don't have iChat.

Oh well, what can we do? I don't see Apple fixing this anytime soon.

psychofreak
Oct 16, 2007, 02:06 PM
All these new features sound really cool... but I'll never get to use them.

None of my friends use Mac computer, and they all use MSN. :mad:

One feature I was hoping for (but knew it would come) would be the ability to use iChat with your other IM Account, and chat (with all the features) to others who don't have iChat.

Oh well, what can we do? I don't see Apple fixing this anytime soon.

Jabber allows this, and can be used with iChat, you just don't get the good stuff...I wish it supported video, and even MSN games...

HelixOmnimedia
Oct 16, 2007, 02:11 PM
Jabber allows this, and can be used with iChat, you just don't get the good stuff...I wish it supported video, and even MSN games...

Never heard of Jabber before, will have to google it.

Anyway, ALL the Leopard features look fantastic, but I don't think my PowerBook meets minimum requirements - but I have day of tomorrow and will look further into it.

Was waiting on Leopard to be released before I upgraded to a MacBook Pro, but now with the rumored new MacBook Pros coming November or January... I'm in two mind wither to wait or not.

psychofreak
Oct 16, 2007, 02:13 PM
Was waiting on Leopard to be released before I upgraded to a MacBook Pro, but now with the rumored new MacBook Pros coming November or January... I'm in two mind wither to wait or not.
The MBP is right between releases, now is a great time to buy. If you're content with your Powerbook, the stuff you do won't be noticeably different on the next MBP as on the current one...

TurboSC
Oct 16, 2007, 02:15 PM
yea over the years iChat has finally started getting better. I would prefer it over most clients now, just because how easy it is to use.

CavemanUK
Oct 16, 2007, 02:23 PM
Right.... so you want Apple to violate the MSN protocol and its terms and conditions of use? There is a huge difference between some open source project doing this and a $100bn corporation. Apple would be sued to high hell.

Yeah I do!

but seriously, i don't see why microsoft would have a problem with this (and have yet to see any evidence of this)..the more using hotmail/msn network the better for them.. especially since microsoft still have a stake in apple.

CavemanUK
Oct 16, 2007, 02:25 PM
1. The Yahoo deal was a strategic move because of Google buying a stake in AOL. If MS was real about interoperability, they would support Jabber in Messenger

2. An easy/soft way out, after stopping development of Windows Media Player.

Regarding point number 2... how long do you think before MS stop developing MSN Messenger for Mac.

psychofreak
Oct 16, 2007, 02:27 PM
Regarding point number 2... how long do you think before MS stop developing MSN Messenger for Mac.

They're not putting in much effort at the moment...other clients are just so much better than the official one...

Project
Oct 16, 2007, 02:38 PM
Yeah I do!

but seriously, i don't see why microsoft would have a problem with this (and have yet to see any evidence of this)..the more using hotmail/msn network the better for them.. especially since microsoft still have a stake in apple.


Because MS only make money on their own client. They want everybody to be using that.

Couple of reasons:

1. MS make money on Messenger via adverts, theme packs, winks, MSN Today... while a lot of this doesn't make the Mac version, they still want to keep you on brand.

2. If MSN was open, people might start using other clients... for instance, video chat in iChat blows MSN away. And with screen sharing and iChat Theater it takes this even further. iChat supports Google, AIM, .Mac, ICQ and Jabber. If MSN Messenger is not needed to speak to your friends, then the lock-in Microsoft has weakens considerably. Its like email. I don't change providers often but I know that I can take my contact list anywhere with me so its not a problem. The email providers have to fight based on FEATURES in order to keep customers. This is how it should be. If I wasn't able to email Hotmail users from Gmail then I would reluctantly have to use Hotmail. This is plus for MS

3. MS no longer have a stake in Apple.

siren77
Oct 16, 2007, 02:53 PM
Regarding point number 2... how long do you think before MS stop developing MSN Messenger for Mac.

yeah forget iChat for a second. Even if MS manages to add A/V functionality to Messenger for Mac, I'll be happy. The excuse they've been giving so far is because they are a small division within MS and have had to spend whatever limited resources they have on working on the Office for Mac. But hey, that's going to be released soon, so maybe, just maybe we'll see that added functionality.

Of course with all that iChat has to offer, I would love to see MSN support but that's a distant dream :)

irun5k
Oct 16, 2007, 03:01 PM
I think the quality of included apps, like iChat, are what really sets OS X in front of XP/Vista.

By itself, I never thought XP as a core OS was too bad. But when you start comparing everything else, it is another story:

MSN Messenger vs. iChat
IE vs. Safari
Windows Media Player vs. iTunes
Movie Maker vs. iMovie/iDVD
Outlook vs. Mail + Address Book + iCal
Backup vs. Time Machine

Of course, this is just my opinion, totally subjective. But really- how many people get excited about using Windows Media Player?

skinnylegs
Oct 16, 2007, 03:16 PM
Of course, this is just my opinionActually, it's my opinion as well. ;)

I am really looking forward to the new iChat. My sister just bought a new iMac and this will be a great feature in terms of me helping her out.

skinnylegs
Oct 16, 2007, 03:17 PM
MSN Messenger vs. iChat
IE vs. Safari
Windows Media Player vs. iTunes
Movie Maker vs. iMovie/iDVD
Outlook vs. Mail + Address Book + iCal
Backup vs. Time Machine

Don't forget the Finder vs. Explorer. ;)

dak
Oct 16, 2007, 03:31 PM
It's a cross-platform open source program called aMSN.

http://www.amsn-project.net/
Nice, free software.

:d

SiliconAddict
Oct 16, 2007, 03:58 PM
# Archive Mailbox

Create an archive of your mailbox to back up important messages or to transfer your mail to another computer.


http://home.comcast.net/~jonnormand/icons/posting.php_files/jawdrop.gif
About flip'n time.

siren77
Oct 16, 2007, 04:04 PM
It's a cross-platform open source program called aMSN.

http://www.amsn-project.net/
Nice, free software.

:d

I've tried it, it's very buggy while using A/V.

psychofreak
Oct 16, 2007, 04:10 PM
I've tried it, it's very buggy while using A/V.

The best I've found is Mercury Messenger's latest beta (download link (http://mercury.group1fo.com/Mercury_1_9_RC11.dmg.zip)) :)

eme jota ce
Oct 16, 2007, 05:02 PM
Anyone know if the nw iChat 4 effects (background or photobooth) will transmit so that iChat 3 users can see them?

sblasl
Oct 16, 2007, 06:29 PM
I have a Sony Mini DV Digital HandyCam DCR-TRV33. Does anyone know if this camera will meet the following requirement for Backdrop effects?

A DV camcorder requires fixed focus, exposure, and white balance.

I'll have to dig out the manual if no one knows off hand.

Thanks

puckhead193
Oct 16, 2007, 06:58 PM
so with ichat 4.0 if my mom is having problems i can tell her to go to ichat and i can see what's on her screen. If she is having problems, can i remotely help her or do i still have to tell her to click here, click this etc? Can i use my mouse and keyboard to make adjustments and "take control" of her computer?

alexandr
Oct 16, 2007, 07:24 PM
i've been waiting for this option for sooo long. finally i can SHOW my grandparents how to do things on my old g4 imac instead of talking them through all the steps! :)))

chelsel
Oct 16, 2007, 08:28 PM
I don't see how iChat can be touted as an operating system feature. It's an application... and it should be free, heck you can download MSN Messenger for Windows, and use it on any version of Windows for free. No need to upgrade to Vista to get the latest MSN Messenger with screen sharing, video chat, music sharing, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I like Apple, but I haven't seen anything in Leopard that is really WOW... what fundamental OPERATING SYSTEM changes have been made... everything I see mentioned as an improvement is just a tweak of an existing application... remember applications are different than an operating system... the operating system is what talks to the hardware... applications talk to the operating system...

Making things pretty and adding a backup program don't count as operating system improvements...

QuarterSwede
Oct 16, 2007, 08:41 PM
I don't see how iChat can be touted as an operating system feature. It's an application... and it should be free, heck you can download MSN Messenger for Windows, and use it on any version of Windows for free. No need to upgrade to Vista to get the latest MSN Messenger with screen sharing, video chat, music sharing, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I like Apple, but I haven't seen anything in Leopard that is really WOW... what fundamental OPERATING SYSTEM changes have been made... everything I see mentioned as an improvement is just a tweak of an existing application... remember applications are different than an operating system... the operating system is what talks to the hardware... applications talk to the operating system...

Making things pretty and adding a backup program don't count as operating system improvements...
Core Animation. Nuff said. ... and if you don't think that's a major upgrade, research it and what it gives devs the ability to do. Also, what about the new Finder or QuickLook for that matter? Total productive enhancers.

Also, I disagree with your assessment of Time Machine. It's not tacked on like Volume Shadow Copy nor does it work in any way the same as any other backup application (even fundamentally they are quite different (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/12/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_time_machine.html)).

QuarterSwede
Oct 16, 2007, 08:49 PM
Anyone know if the nw iChat 4 effects (background or photobooth) will transmit so that iChat 3 users can see them?
It will because everything is being done by your Mac not their computer. Basically it's all being processed on your Mac and then streamed as video like normal.

Luap
Oct 16, 2007, 09:31 PM
Do all of you who use iChat have .Mac accounts?

It is basically impossible to actually get chat working for me or my friends. We are all charter users, but don't have .mac accounts.

I can't connect to my other iChat friends because there are always connection problems. Googling turns up a solution, which is to farward like 10 different port ranges. Seems rediculous.

Is there a secret I'm missing?

No secret really. Its been a disaster in this department for months (See the iChat section in Apples own discussion forums). I dont know if iChat 4 will be any better yet.
All I can say is, iChat is extremely sensitive to network & router settings. You really need to tripple check it is all set up correctly. And even then it doesnt always work. This can sometimes be due to ISP's blocking/restricting ports iChat uses. Other times it can be because your nipples are not correctly aligned with the constellation of Orions belt.
It rarely works for me 1st time these days, and even when it does, the quality isn't nearly as good as it used to be. When eventually connected, data throughput is often rather low..

This is like, when they first invented the telephone, and your phone number was "5", but only two other people you knew had one, and they weren't necessarily people you wanted or needed to talk to, so you have this snazzy new telephone doing nothing.

Until I meet more people with iChat (ie, with a Mac) or even ONE person who uses AIM, whom I actually want or need to talk to, then all this really cool iChat technology is just taking up space on my hard drive.

Too bad, I'd love to use it, but it's useless.

I see your point entirely. But perhaps this is down to bad luck.. I have tons of contacts, many of which use iChat. So I have quite a few pals that I can video chat with.
If only it worked as dependably as it used to, then I would use it for video chats much more often. Instead of old fashioned text :rolleyes:

Luap
Oct 16, 2007, 09:36 PM
It will because everything is being done by your Mac not their computer. Basically it's all being processed on your Mac and then streamed as video like normal.

Correct. Tried it myself and verified already ;)

chelsel
Oct 17, 2007, 12:13 AM
Core Animation. Nuff said. ... and if you don't think that's a major upgrade, research it and what it gives devs the ability to do. Also, what about the new Finder or QuickLook for that matter? Total productive enhancers.

Also, I disagree with your assessment of Time Machine. It's not tacked on like Volume Shadow Copy nor does it work in any way the same as any other backup application (even fundamentally they are quite different (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/12/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_time_machine.html)).

Core Animation - a Tweening API... whoopie... like I said, just prettifying, no meat... and it still won't help with games on OS X.

Finder, minor enhancements... Apple should just buy PathFinder. QuickLook... MS has had this since Windows XP, including the ability to rotate, save, print, etc.

Time machine appears to be a GUI slapped on a version control system, no rocket science there... but it is pretty. What OS X really needs is a backup system like Acronis for Windows. That's a REAL backup system - varying levels of compression, encryption, automation and more... SuperDuper is about as close as you can get now.. but it still pales in comparison.

Having said all that, I'll probably upgrade because I like pretty things too... but I'm not expecting anything to impress me from a technical standpoint.

samh004
Oct 17, 2007, 03:58 AM
A/S/L? Cyber?

haha

fyi, the proper response is always "15/F/Cali"

LOL :D

so what I could really still use is better MSN AV inside OS X.

You know who to send an e-mail to then, don't you... and Mercury works quite well for this, but I doubt MSN will ever get full screen images.

Google chat support would be nice.

As mentioned, it's already there, and Leopard will make it even easier to set up a GoogleTalk account.

But until Apple says that's what it does ... well, I'm not a big fan of any random user on the internet being able to see what's on my screen at any minute of the day.

The ideal solution would be to not open iChat in that case then.

Microsoft negotiated interoperability with Yahoo, so it doesn't seem as if they are completely unwilling to come to the table. Give them some credit. They even took Flip4Mac under their wing in the past couple of years, giving implicit support to Quicktime in the OS X environment. Who expected that move?

1. The Yahoo deal was a strategic move because of Google buying a stake in AOL. If MS was real about interoperability, they would support Jabber in Messenger

2. An easy/soft way out, after stopping development of Windows Media Player.

I think the main reason iChat wouldn't be able to bridge the gap and open up to MSN/Yahoo is because they have AIM on their side already. Reading that article I was unaware that Apple actually helped found AOL but then left, so I can see why they chose them to partner with initially, but if they now paid some money to connect to MSN/Yahoo I can see AOL ending their agreement with them, as it's the kind of interoperability they don't want.

Eventually it will happen, and eventually Microsoft and Apple and Yahoo and AOL and Google will all come together and choose an open standard that everyone can use, efficiently and easily, however I wouldn't expect it any time soon.

As for Flip4Mac, as stated above, Microsoft had pretty much abandoned making Windows Media Player on the mac, they were too lazy or whatever to do a decent job. Which leads me to wonder why they are still making Office, but as we can all see, that development is going very slowly too.

One new feature I would like iChat 4.0 to have is videoconferencing that WORKS, without giving you error messages half of the times. Skype does it. Why can't iChat do it too?

I think I've had one error message in all the time I've used it, and that was because of a dodgy connection. Granted everyone was a different connection, and that's why things don't always work as planned.

It's a cross-platform open source program called aMSN.

http://www.amsn-project.net/
Nice, free software.

I've tried it, it's very buggy while using A/V.

The best I've found is Mercury Messenger's latest beta (download link (http://mercury.group1fo.com/Mercury_1_9_RC11.dmg.zip)) :)

Mercury really is one of the best cross-platform MSN clients out there, and jabber support is slowly being added too. It's a little odd seeing 11 betas followed by 11 RC's and still no final, but it's a decent app. I'd recommend turning off iTunes songs showing in the app to avoid occasional crashes.

Core Animation - a Tweening API... whoopie... like I said, just prettifying, no meat.

Possibly true, but look at Aero and how the new application switcher is the only feature advertised in Vista :p

QuickLook... MS has had this since Windows XP, including the ability to rotate, save, print, etc.

I think you should be comparing Preview.app to those features, not QuickLook.

MrCrowbar
Oct 17, 2007, 05:52 AM
No secret really. Its been a disaster in this department for months (See the iChat section in Apples own discussion forums). I dont know if iChat 4 will be any better yet.
All I can say is, iChat is extremely sensitive to network & router settings. You really need to tripple check it is all set up correctly. And even then it doesnt always work. This can sometimes be due to ISP's blocking/restricting ports iChat uses. Other times it can be because your nipples are not correctly aligned with the constellation of Orions belt.
It rarely works for me 1st time these days, and even when it does, the quality isn't nearly as good as it used to be. When eventually connected, data throughput is often rather low..


I've tried pretty much everything to get iChat video or audio to work. It workes wonderfully until a year ago. Is there any website that hs actually working instructions? I tried with OSX's firewall off etc. Didn't do the nipple thing yet :)
And Leopard's iChat (current dev version) gives me the same connection errors. MSN video over Mercury works fine by the way. I with iChat had uPnP since most modern router support that. :(

ImageWrangler
Oct 17, 2007, 06:32 AM
Don't know what its like in the rest of the world but in the UK iChat is basically useless until it has native MSN support.

Interesting, in the States and the rest of the world, MSN, in fact anything Micro$oft makes is useless, maybe Europe needs go get with the times?

That said iChat could use more networks but I understand Apple's reluctance to add, say, MSN, which of the scads of people I know in college and professionally not a single user out there (i.e. I know a lot of smart people I guess). The one client I know thousands use in the technical industries is actually Yahoo! IM, wouldn't think they'd be as hard to partner with as M$, who I'm sure would flip Apple the bird.

In closing what with AOL supposedly hemorrhaging money and user-base, maybe Apple should start shopping for, or partnering with, other networks. Though myself and about 50 or so people show up on iChat, only half a dozen are .Mac, maybe 20 got free AOL IM handles, which is what I use (anyone can get an AOL IM handle, which then viola, you can use iChat, no .Mac needed), the rest are through Google's IM service which iChat can see as well.

(slaps head) THERE is who Apple should partner with to take over the masses with an amazing IM package... GOOGLE!

Luap
Oct 17, 2007, 06:39 AM
Is there any website that hs actually working instructions? I tried with OSX's firewall off etc. Didn't do the nipple thing yet :)


If you were (for example) to report your iChat problems on the Apple discussion forums. You'd likely get a reply from a helpful guy called Ralph. He's really gone out of his way to help people sort these kind of problems out. Also.. Hes put together a very helpful website to guide people through the minefield of iChat connection errors.
Its worth a look, as it has all kinds of helpful tips. Not that they really helped me so much, but you may have better luck.
www.ralphjohnsuk.dsl.pipex.com
Failing that, its back to nipple aligning im afraid.

Neodym
Oct 17, 2007, 06:51 AM
Interesting, in the States and the rest of the world, MSN, in fact anything Micro$oft makes is useless, maybe Europe needs go get with the times?


Errr... UK <> Europe! Europe is an area with several individual countries and cultures/languages - unlike the U.S., where the individual states are more integrated within one common nation using the same language (more or less).

Back on topic:
Regarding the choice of IM's i'd think that it depends on an individual and his/hers friends rather than on a country. E.g. i do have contacts on AIM, ICQ, MSN and Yahoo...


That said iChat could use more networks


Well - Apple would only have to offer a documented API for iChat and i'm sure they would not need to implement support for other networks on their own - some 3rd party programmer would do it for them! Or is there already something like this in iChat that i'm not aware of?

FelixDerKater
Oct 17, 2007, 08:07 AM
iChat continues to be the worst application ever created by Apple, and it just continues to hold on to that title. Even with all of the video conferencing and other additions, it fails as a standard AIM client.

Fortunately, there are good third-party options like Adium, and in the near future, Trillian will finally make its way to the Mac. *celebrates*

psychofreak
Oct 17, 2007, 08:14 AM
Well - Apple would only have to offer a documented API for iChat and i'm sure they would not need to implement support for other networks on their own - some 3rd party programmer would do it for them! Or is there already something like this in iChat that i'm not aware of?

Jabber lets you text-chat with people on other networks, but none of the fancy stuff...

samh004
Oct 17, 2007, 08:58 AM
iChat continues to be the worst application ever created by Apple, and it just continues to hold on to that title. Even with all of the video conferencing and other additions, it fails as a standard AIM client.

Fortunately, there are good third-party options like Adium, and in the near future, Trillian will finally make its way to the Mac. *celebrates*

I guess that really depends on what your expectations are of a great IM app. I think it's wonderful, in this past year I've had chats from Prague on holiday, to my sister in Australia, 4-way chats between London, Chicago, Australia and Hong Kong and countless other chats.

Perhaps for what you've been doing with it, it's sucked, but for me, I couldn't be happier with it's performance. I know I wouldn't of been able to transmit the quality of video or audio in Mercury/Windows Live, on either a Mac or PC, so I judge it works splendid.

shoelessone
Oct 17, 2007, 09:16 AM
For all of you unhappy with your OSX chat client options, I really highly recommend checking out meebo. It's web based, so it doesn't support any of the audio/visual options out there, however it works really well and if you are like everybody I know, you always have a browser open so it saves on space.

That said, it's more for a casual IMer, not somebody who chat's the night away on AIM/etc.

psychofreak
Oct 17, 2007, 09:18 AM
For all of you unhappy with your OSX chat client options, I really highly recommend checking out meebo. It's web based, so it doesn't support any of the audio/visual options out there, however it works really well and if you are like everybody I know, you always have a browser open so it saves on space.

That said, it's more for a casual IMer, not somebody who chat's the night away on AIM/etc.

Its great for use on public computers, but Adium is just so much more user friendly...

claytonaugust
Oct 17, 2007, 09:49 AM
haha

fyi, the proper response is always "15/F/Cali"

Interesting how I have never heard someone from California refer to it as "Cali", yet everyone east of Texas seems to think that's a decent term.


Anyways, I would love to see some stability with the video chatting. I can video chat with Skype, but its resource heavy. iChat is a light application, but I, like everyone else, suffer from Connection Errors ALL THE TIME.

And of course, those pr*cks at the apple store won't acknowledge that an issue exists, as with everything I bring to their attention :(.

samh004
Oct 17, 2007, 11:14 PM
And of course, those pr*cks at the apple store won't acknowledge that an issue exists, as with everything I bring to their attention :(.

Maybe an issue doesn't exist, at least not with the computer. I've had no troubles in Hong Kong or Australia, so perhaps that's just because the ISP's here aren't blocking the ports I need, but in the States they are ? Something like that.

paddykev
Oct 18, 2007, 12:09 PM
Adium is a great way for mac users to converse with all their friends/family on the mac but i have extremely slow transfers when using Adium roughly 5kb/s top speed and obviously no a/v options on Adium yet (still hopeful for future releases) but yeah I too would love to see the option for iChat to have support for msn and yahoo out of the box. Apple has designed a great application and leopard brings lots of fun new features but like most have said already half of us won't be able to use these new features as or friends/family use chat accounts like MSN, yahoo and did i mention MSN!..

If iChat could fully support MSN i could then dump my dell xps 410 and happily be a mac user 24/7 (except when im at work) lol.

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 12:11 PM
Adium is a great way for mac users to converse with all their friends/family on the mac but i have extremely slow transfers when using Adium roughly 5kb/s top speed and obviously no a/v options on Adium yet (still hopeful for future releases) but yeah I too would love to see the option for iChat to have support for msn and yahoo out of the box. Apple has designed a great application and leopard brings lots of fun new features but like most have said already half of us won't be able to use these new features as or friends/family use chat accounts like MSN, yahoo and did i mention MSN!..

If iChat could fully support MSN i could then dump my dell xps 410 and happily be a mac user 24/7 (except when im at work) lol.

I recommend the latest Mercury (http://mercury.group1fo.com/Mercury_1_9_RC11.dmg.zip)* beta for A/V btw :)

*Download link