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MacRumors
Oct 16, 2007, 11:22 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Besides Leopard, Apple announced (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/10/16orange.html) today that Orange will be the exclusive French carrier for the Apple iPhone. The iPhone will make its debut in France on Thursday November 29th."We are excited to partner with Orange and bring iPhone to France in time for the holidays," said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO. "iPhone is an amazing product and we hope mobile users in France will love it as much as we do."

The 8GB iPhone will be sold in France through Orange's online and direct retail stores for 399 euros including V.A.T.

It's unclear what became of the negotiations (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2007/10/10/apple-and-orange-iphone-france-negotiations-unlocked-iphones/) surrounding the French law that requires mobile phones to be sold unlocked 6 months after launch.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/16/apple-announces-that-orange-is-exclusive-iphone-carrier-in-france/)



Antares
Oct 16, 2007, 11:24 AM
This is going to be great news for my relatives in France. They'll be happy to get the phone.

P-Worm
Oct 16, 2007, 11:26 AM
It will be interesting to see what is going to happen about the 6 month unlocking requirement.

P-Worm

fastbite
Oct 16, 2007, 11:33 AM
It will be interesting to see what is going to happen about the 6 month unlocking requirement.

P-Worm

They will have to unlock. There is no way around it.

AppleisTasty
Oct 16, 2007, 11:35 AM
Maybe apple is planning to unlock all iPhones in 6 months. :)

IEatApples
Oct 16, 2007, 11:35 AM
They will have to unlock. There is no way around it.Agreed! The law is nonnegotiable! :)

quigleybc
Oct 16, 2007, 11:41 AM
le sigh

le jealous

Drumjim85
Oct 16, 2007, 11:42 AM
They will have to unlock. There is no way around it.

Maybe it will be unlocked, but will only have french text in the OS ... ?? that would discourage me from getting it...

BigJohno
Oct 16, 2007, 11:47 AM
I wonder if you get a an orange sim card that it will work for the american iphone. or an O2 sim card????

XIII
Oct 16, 2007, 11:52 AM
Yep, it will be very interesting to see what happens about the unlocking thing. Does this mean that after 6 months on sale Apple have to offer an unlocked iPhone for sale in France? Or does it mean that after each individual customer has been connected for 6 months, Apple have to unlock their phone for them if they wish?

Kwill
Oct 16, 2007, 11:58 AM
Maybe it will be unlocked, but will only have french text in the OS ... ?? that would discourage me from getting it...

That is very likely. However, there are people living in France that do not speak French. Just as there are people living in the U.S. that do not speak English. So they would likely file a law suit if their phone changed languages after 6 months.

machou
Oct 16, 2007, 12:02 PM
It is my understanding that the iPhone in France will also be sold with out contract for the rumored price of 999 euros.

Source NouvelObs (http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actualites/medias/20071016.OBS0002/appleorange__enfin_laccord.html)

Sorry it's in french.

sananda
Oct 16, 2007, 12:04 PM
It is my understanding that the iPhone in France will also be sold with out contract for the rumored price of 999 euros.

how did you arrive at this understanding?

carfac
Oct 16, 2007, 12:04 PM
Yep, it will be very interesting to see what happens about the unlocking thing. Does this mean that after 6 months on sale Apple have to offer an unlocked iPhone for sale in France? Or does it mean that after each individual customer has been connected for 6 months, Apple have to unlock their phone for them if they wish?

Mark my words: instead of unlocking a phone after 6 months, Apple will give every French customer a NEW phone... every six months.

Probably not. This is great, though. The first Apple will HAVE to unlock a phone. Maybe the dev team will learn something there!

Drumjim85
Oct 16, 2007, 12:05 PM
That is very likely. However, there are people living in France that do not speak French. Just as there are people living in the U.S. that do not speak English. So they would likely file a law suit if their phone changed languages after 6 months.

Do you think a law suit could really stand just because it only has 1 language??? That seems kinda stupid (but i guess the rest of the law suits that are out there are too.... )

thechidz
Oct 16, 2007, 12:07 PM
le sigh

le jealous

haha... reminds me of pepe le peu! cute:apple:

Crike .40
Oct 16, 2007, 12:08 PM
if unlocked iphones land in france (as some speculate) how long until it is that version of the phone that floods the ebay market and moves worldwide?

machou
Oct 16, 2007, 12:09 PM
how did you arrive at this understanding?

Well there is alot of talks here in France about the now past troubles between Apple and Orange.

The following article (http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actualites/medias/20071016.OBS0002/appleorange__enfin_laccord.html) from a well known business magazine here in France states that an agreement was reached and that the iPhone will be sold with and with out a contract.

It's speculation so far, but could have some true in it.

ma2ha3
Oct 16, 2007, 12:09 PM
i smell lawsuit coming apple way in France.
Hurray, let the french consumer revolution lead the way, sue apple arse off.
European human right law. European consumer right law. European freedom act.

carfac
Oct 16, 2007, 12:20 PM
Do you think a law suit could really stand just because it only has 1 language??? That seems kinda stupid (but i guess the rest of the law suits that are out there are too.... )

I agree- stupid lawsuit.

I had not even thought about other languages- a lot of my CE stuff, you go to setup and choose a language. I had some friends here from Bordeaux last weekend, and that was the first time I noticed you cannot do that in an iPhone.

I doubt it would be difficult to do, and may be where a future update is headed. After all, does Apple make a French, German, Farsi and Spanish Leopard.... or just one, with language packs?

Nikkoos
Oct 16, 2007, 12:25 PM
The French law forces Orange to accept your request to unlock your iphone after 6 months. However nothing prevent Orange from enforcing 2 years contracts for an iphone package and it is very unlikely that you will subscribe for 2 years but sell the phone after 6 months and continue to pay every month. The only way out of the contract duration is to move abroad or move to an area where Orange network is not reachable (obviously very few in France).
Buying a phone for 999Euros is another option (1400US$) but you may look for a longtime someone ready to pay more than this amount even on eBay...

Surely it will be very interesting to get information about the unlocking process. I f I was apple I would propose a service to unlock/relock to another operator for the original customer only on presentation of the new contract having the same name as the orange contrat. That could be legal as the law is here to falcilitate the competition between provider and this could be then interpreted a fair practice.

mccldwll
Oct 16, 2007, 12:25 PM
Clearly the iPhone is much more than a phone, which probably is what the law was originally directed to cover (remember the purpose of portability in general is to switch carriers if bad phone service). I'm sure Apple could unlock the phone part, possibly even provide voicemail if another carrier supports it, and maybe even texting, BUT may not have to unlock or support the safari web part or provide support/updates unless an arrangement is reached with Apple. Everything would be spelled out in advance.

Drumjim85
Oct 16, 2007, 12:26 PM
I agree- stupid lawsuit.

I had not even thought about other languages- a lot of my CE stuff, you go to setup and choose a language. I had some friends here from Bordeaux last weekend, and that was the first time I noticed you cannot do that in an iPhone.

I doubt it would be difficult to do, and may be where a future update is headed. After all, does Apple make a French, German, Farsi and Spanish Leopard.... or just one, with language packs?

I'm sure its not hard to do... but is apple going to allow it... like i said before, maybe this is how the "Lock" the iphone from France to the rest of the world...

EagerDragon
Oct 16, 2007, 12:27 PM
It will be interesting to see what is going to happen about the 6 month unlocking requirement.

P-Worm

Maybe that is why Apple was asking for 30 percent share on the data and minutes .... since unlocking in 6 months would be robbing them from profits on the remainder 18 months.

Drumjim85
Oct 16, 2007, 12:27 PM
Clearly the iPhone is much more than a phone, which probably is what the law was originally directed to cover (remember the purpose of portability in general is to switch carriers if bad phone service). I'm sure Apple could unlock the phone part, possibly even provide voicemail if another carrier supports it, and maybe even texting, BUT may not have to unlock or support the safari web part or provide support/updates unless an arrangement is reached with Apple. Everything would be spelled out in advance.

haha ... thats another good thought... but man, this would piss people off! . ha...

sananda
Oct 16, 2007, 12:28 PM
Well there is alot of talks here in France about the now past troubles between Apple and Orange.

The following article (http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actualites/medias/20071016.OBS0002/appleorange__enfin_laccord.html) from a well known business magazine here in France states that an agreement was reached and that the iPhone will be sold with and with out a contract.

It's speculation so far, but could have some true in it.

thanks for the link.

yes, the unlocked price given there is speculation. i will be interested to see the official price when that is (i should think pretty quietly) announced.

EagerDragon
Oct 16, 2007, 12:30 PM
Or does it mean that after each individual customer has been connected for 6 months, Apple have to unlock their phone for them if they wish?

The above is probably the answer. You basically have to pay 6 months of data and minutes before the phone will be unlocked. Just a guess.

sjo
Oct 16, 2007, 12:32 PM
Maybe apple is planning to unlock all iPhones in 6 months. :)

well after 6 months of starting the sales in france the iphone has been in the markets for almost a whole year. besides that one year old phones are pretty retro in general, apple should be quite close to releasing the second iteration of iphone by then. so the unlocking of the first generation iphones might not be that much of an issue then...

sananda
Oct 16, 2007, 12:33 PM
Clearly the iPhone is much more than a phone, which probably is what the law was originally directed to cover (remember the purpose of portability in general is to switch carriers if bad phone service). I'm sure Apple could unlock the phone part, possibly even provide voicemail if another carrier supports it, and maybe even texting, BUT may not have to unlock or support the safari web part or provide support/updates unless an arrangement is reached with Apple. Everything would be spelled out in advance.

what nonsense! the point of the law is not to switch when you have bad service but to allow the consumer the freedom to choose their network without hindrance in the interests of competition. your idea clearly promotes the practice of making it very difficult to exercise choice.

Bye Bye Baby
Oct 16, 2007, 12:39 PM
Is anyone with a little bit of sanity going to comment on the price of this thing????? Get over your it- that thing is going to cost at 399 euros a whopping $US565! And Apple are still complaining about contract revenues. Man, when are pople going to see that Apple has gone into greed overdrive??? :mad:

PDE
Oct 16, 2007, 12:44 PM
Man, when are pople going to see that Apple has gone into greed overdrive??? :mad:


I saw it a long time ago and it's only getting worse.

twoodcc
Oct 16, 2007, 12:51 PM
It will be interesting to see what is going to happen about the 6 month unlocking requirement.

P-Worm

yes that will be interesting.

still good news for those living in France

igazza
Oct 16, 2007, 01:09 PM
Well there is alot of talks here in France about the now past troubles between Apple and Orange.

The following article (http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actualites/medias/20071016.OBS0002/appleorange__enfin_laccord.html) from a well known business magazine here in France states that an agreement was reached and that the iPhone will be sold with and with out a contract.

It's speculation so far, but could have some true in it.

cant understand haha but id like to read it

maestrokev
Oct 16, 2007, 01:21 PM
What are the roaming fees in Europe like? Is it expensive? I'm surprised that a locked phone like the iPhone will be popular with Europeans that are more likely to travel between countries than Americans on an annual basis.

sananda
Oct 16, 2007, 01:24 PM
cant understand haha but id like to read it

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actualites/medias/20071016.OBS0002/iphone_accord_conclu_entre_orange_et_apple.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Diphone%2Bnouvel%2Bobs%2Baccord%2Bconclu%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

50548
Oct 16, 2007, 01:41 PM
Ok, UK, France and Germany have it...what about the richest market in Europe? Please bring it to Switzerland, Apple..! And with Sunrise, of course...:rolleyes:

tripwire
Oct 16, 2007, 02:05 PM
Ok, UK, France and Germany have it...what about the richest market in Europe? Please bring it to Switzerland, Apple..! And with Sunrise, of course...:rolleyes:

Luxembourg, Ireland, Norway, and Liechtenstein are much wealthier ;-)

50548
Oct 16, 2007, 02:21 PM
Luxembourg, Ireland, Norway, and Liechtenstein are much wealthier ;-)

Sorry, LX and Vaduz don't count (they are just tiny patches of land); as for the others, they SURELY lose in purchasing power, because of much higher combined tax load and living costs...CH inhabitants are therefore richer in real terms.

laidbackliam
Oct 16, 2007, 02:34 PM
I wonder if you get a an orange sim card that it will work for the american iphone. or an O2 sim card????

i would like to know this as well. I'm planning on moving to Ireland in the next year or so and would like to use a non unlocked iPhone that I do not have to repurchase.

Lycanthrope
Oct 16, 2007, 02:47 PM
What are the roaming fees in Europe like? Is it expensive? I'm surprised that a locked phone like the iPhone will be popular with Europeans that are more likely to travel between countries than Americans on an annual basis.

Inter-country roaming is incredibly expensive right now but the European Commission is putting in place legislation to reduce the costs.

I think I pay 10EUR per month for my wife's contract and we pay about 15 EUR cents per minute talk-time and about the same for a text message. For me to call her then when she's abroad costs up to 1EUR per minute talk-time. That being said, the mobile market here is much more mature than The States with a near saturation of the Belgian market - nearly everyone has a mobile phone (or GSM as we call them here).

Steflinsky
Oct 16, 2007, 02:54 PM
M....e à O.....E. BIENSURE

mihiruthere93
Oct 16, 2007, 03:42 PM
man, this stuff is getting expensive!

good thing i live in the ol' US of A! :D

manu chao
Oct 16, 2007, 03:58 PM
Is anyone with a little bit of sanity going to comment on the price of this thing????? Get over your it- that thing is going to cost at 399 euros a whopping $US565! And Apple are still complaining about contract revenues. Man, when are pople going to see that Apple has gone into greed overdrive??? :mad:

Will we ever see the day when everybody [from the U.S.] posting here realises that prices in Europe are always advertised including taxes and that the minimum rate in the EU is 15%.

399 Euro in France => 399/1.196 Euro = 333.6 Euro before taxes
average exchange rate over the last six months: 1.368
333.6 * 1.368 = $456

Stella
Oct 16, 2007, 04:03 PM
Clearly the iPhone is much more than a phone, which probably is what the law was originally directed to cover (remember the purpose of portability in general is to switch carriers if bad phone service). I'm sure Apple could unlock the phone part, possibly even provide voicemail if another carrier supports it, and maybe even texting, BUT may not have to unlock or support the safari web part or provide support/updates unless an arrangement is reached with Apple. Everything would be spelled out in advance.

Its a smartphone ( but Apple said its not, blah blah blah ) , so it'll still have to still abide by French law.. surely. Its a cell phone, just like smartphones are cell phones.

tripwire
Oct 16, 2007, 04:09 PM
Sorry, LX and Vaduz don't count (they are just tiny patches of land); as for the others, they SURELY lose in purchasing power, because of much higher combined tax load and living costs...CH inhabitants are therefore richer in real terms.

Not really.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita

50548
Oct 16, 2007, 04:22 PM
Not really.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita

Check what I said, please...it's not about GDP per capita, which means pretty much nothing to ordinary citizens after all.

"After buying the study's basic basket of goods and services, earners in Zurich, Geneva, Dublin, Los Angeles and Luxembourg retain the highest portion of their net wages for discretionary spending like vacations, luxury items or savings."

In other words, Swiss people are richer because they can spend more after mandatory expenses.

http://www.finfacts.ie/costofliving.htm#This_2006

mfronmark
Oct 16, 2007, 04:25 PM
I hope they don't forget about Sweden :)

sananda
Oct 16, 2007, 04:25 PM
finished fighting about how rich you are?

tripwire
Oct 16, 2007, 04:30 PM
Check what I said, please...it's not about GDP per capita, which means pretty much nothing to ordinary citizens after all.

"After buying the study's basic basket of goods and services, earners in Zurich, Geneva, Dublin, Los Angeles and Luxembourg retain the highest portion of their net wages for discretionary spending like vacations, luxury items or savings."

In other words, Swiss people are richer because they can spend more after mandatory expenses.

http://www.finfacts.ie/costofliving.htm#This_2006

Check the article, the figures take purchasing power in to account

50548
Oct 16, 2007, 04:40 PM
finished fighting about how rich you are?

I am not...rich :rolleyes:

But I still want the iPhone in CH. :D

pederg
Oct 16, 2007, 04:49 PM
Ok, UK, France and Germany have it...what about the richest market in Europe? Please bring it to Switzerland, Apple..! And with Sunrise, of course...:rolleyes:

Swisscom surely... i hope..:rolleyes:

Dr.Gargoyle
Oct 16, 2007, 05:01 PM
For me to call her then when she's abroad costs up to 1EUR per minute talk-time.
1€/min is cheap. I pay up to 5€/min calling from abroad.

DrV
Oct 16, 2007, 05:12 PM
I hope they don't forget about Sweden :)

They have not forgotten about the Nordic countries. However, it seems that we belong to the "second wave". Which is a nice way of saying that Apple has no idea how to circumvent the legislation dealing with mobile phone unlocking.

What is actually the situation in Sweden? I know Telia-Sonera has been having some negotiations with Apple, but at least in Finland the legislation is very clear at this point. The iPhone must not be locked to any carrier under any circumstances.

---

Just to give our friends on the other side of the Atlantic ocean some idea of the local unsubsidized cellular costs, I checked the prices of one of the nationwide operators:


National calls are around 8 cents/minute and 8 cents/SMS (around 0.11 USD), no cost for receiving calls or SMSs. Unlimited data access is around 12 EUR/month at 384 kbit/s and 22 EUR/mo. for 1024 kbit/s. All sorts of "1000 min/mo." packages may lower the prices more than by half but comparing them is very difficult. Switching to another carrier does not usually produce any costs to the customer.

A plain and simple phone costs around 50 EUR, a basic smart phone with 3G, camera, Symbian S60, etc. is around 250 EUR, and a real smart phone (Nokia N95) is around 600 euros. All prices include VAT (22% in here) and 1 EUR = 1.4 USD (unless the USD has continued its free fall).

---

So, the unsubsidized 1000 EUR for iPhone seems to be a bit high. The competition is around 600-700 EUR street price, so 700 EUR would be in the ballpark. The "400 EUR" price tag is not possible unsubsidized unless Apple knows better than, e.g., Nokia how to make phones at a low cost.

DrV
Oct 16, 2007, 05:21 PM
1€/min is cheap. I pay up to 5€/min calling from abroad.

Which "abroad"?

Now that the EU has set limits to the maximum rates, those prices cannot be within the EU (or EU + Norway but NOT Switzerland). From the beginning of September, the international intra-EU call prices have dropped some 60 %.

All local operators seem to have almost exactly the same prices: 0.60 EUR/min for calling to another EU country, and 0.29 EUR/min for receiving calls when in another EU country. Calling to the US costs about the same or even less depending on the carrier.

I find this quite reasonable, but it is sad nothing was done to data roaming prices or SMS prices.

Dr.Gargoyle
Oct 16, 2007, 05:47 PM
Which "abroad"?

....

Calling to the US costs about the same or even less depending on the carrier.

From US network to a US phone. That is, it could be a person standing next to me. (45 SEK/min by Telenor to be more precise)

The sandbox is larger than US or EU. I want to be able to make a local call without getting robbed blind. Apples business model forced me buying an unlocked GPS Nokia last week. I just switch SIM cards when I travel.

GQB
Oct 16, 2007, 05:57 PM
It will be interesting to see what is going to happen about the 6 month unlocking requirement.

P-Worm

My $$ is on the unlocked version being in the neighborhood of $1000.

Dr.Gargoyle
Oct 16, 2007, 06:06 PM
My $$ is on the unlocked version being in the neighborhood of $1000.
I am a huge Apple geek.
That said, there is not a chance in the world I would pay $999 (or 999€ as it would cost over here) for the iPhone in its current subpar form (No WCDMA 2100 or simple WCDMA, No GPS, No MMS, No third-party-apps)
The design and UI are brilliant, but that is it...

ezekielrage_99
Oct 17, 2007, 12:35 AM
I know this is like compare "Apple to Oranges" but does anyone from Australia have any idea who the iPhone carrier in Australia would be. I have heard that Telstra has absolutely not interest in taking up the iPhone because of Apple's requirements.

kis
Oct 17, 2007, 02:42 AM
Ok, UK, France and Germany have it...what about the richest market in Europe? Please bring it to Switzerland, Apple..! And with Sunrise, of course...:rolleyes:

Switzerland may be rich but the market's also very small due to the small size of the country. When you break down the market into the three (major) language regions you don't get more than 2 million people for each segment of which maybe 10'000-20'000 are potential buyers. When looking at the sales numbers of the iPhone you'll quickly see that this number is total peanuts for Apple and there's no real impetus for bringing the phone here anytime soon. It's simply not worth the trouble.

So I guess we'll have to walk across the border to France and get the phone for 1700 CHF :-)

kis

pjh
Oct 17, 2007, 03:03 AM
Apple and Orange don't yet seemed to have released details about the tarrifs yet. Maybe these could be used to counter the "6 month " unlocking rule by creating a lop-sided subscription model.

Assuming the monthly charge is the same as has been announced for the UK (35 pounds), they could charge 50 pounds for the first 6 months, then reduce it to 20 for the remainder of the contract. This would have the effect of pushing up the cost of purchasing an unlocked phone, which I think is the most Apple can hope for.

I don't think Apple will be able to prevent the unlocking of French phones and the subsequent resale of them, what they can do is make the whole process as big a pain in the arse as possible.

moniker
Oct 17, 2007, 03:13 AM
Nice article, other than that "399 euros" should probably be "399 Euro" (or €399).

Data
Oct 17, 2007, 06:09 AM
Nice article, other than that "399 euros" should probably be "399 Euro" (or €399).

.... 399 euro's maybe , it's all so confusing , imean nobody knows the price if it is'nt spelled right, right...pfff ;-)

sananda
Oct 17, 2007, 06:12 AM
.... 399 euro's maybe ... is'nt spelled right, right...pfff ;-)

what??????????

Devil's Refugee
Oct 17, 2007, 07:07 AM
http://www.phoneandphone.com/search/?action=item&idp=719&idc=1

Worth considering if you hate O2 in the UK. They won't ship outside France, and this might be the contractual agreement with companies and resellers, but it won't stop people buying it and flogging via eBay.....

sappo
Oct 17, 2007, 07:48 AM
In other words, Swiss people are richer because they can spend more after mandatory expenses.

Sorry but I couldn't resist. :D

Maybe Swiss people are richer because they (their banks) helped the Nazis robbing the Jews and other minorities during WWII. Or maybe because they (their banks) did help criminals of all over the world to laundry and hide money.

Just maybe... :p

DrV
Oct 17, 2007, 09:40 AM
Nice article, other than that "399 euros" should probably be "399 Euro" (or €399).

Not necessarily. In many countries the currency symbol is placed after the number due to historical reasons. For example, a hundred French francs is spelled "100 F" also in English (not "F100"). Both "€399" and "399 €" are thus used. The abbreviation (EUR) is always placed in front of the number.

The situation with the plural (natural vs. s-less) is quite complicated, as well. The Commission uses the s-less plural in legislation, but the Directorate-General for Translation recommends the natural plural to be used in other documents.

Also, I would rather write "399 euro" instead of "399 Euro", as currency units should not be capitalized.

So, the officially expressions are: "399 euro", "399 euros", "EUR 399", "€399" and "399 €". I would use "399 euros", but that is just a matter of taste (the euro signs tend to disappear or transform).

(And, really, does all of this matter at all?)

Lycanthrope
Oct 17, 2007, 11:09 AM
Everyone's going apoplectic at the idea of an unlocked iPhone costing €999 - I think that price is actually about right when you consider that here in Belgium (where it's illegal to have a phone locked for any duration and it's not allowed to subsidise handsets like they do in other European countries) the high-end HTC (QTEK) handsets cost about the same and even the mid-range PDA phones are €500 or there abouts.

I would pay €999 for an iPhone, personally I'd rather they kept it out of the range of the great unwashed...

Lycanthrope
Oct 17, 2007, 11:11 AM
Not necessarily. In many countries the currency symbol is placed after the number due to historical reasons. For example, a hundred French francs is spelled "100 F" also in English (not "F100"). Both "€399" and "399 €" are thus used. The abbreviation (EUR) is always placed in front of the number.

The situation with the plural (natural vs. s-less) is quite complicated, as well. The Commission uses the s-less plural in legislation, but the Directorate-General for Translation recommends the natural plural to be used in other documents.

Also, I would rather write "399 euro" instead of "399 Euro", as currency units should not be capitalized.

So, the officially expressions are: "399 euro", "399 euros", "EUR 399", "€399" and "399 €". I would use "399 euros", but that is just a matter of taste (the euro signs tend to disappear or transform).

(And, really, does all of this matter at all?)

The standard at the time of euro conversion was EUR 999 - indeed the use of € was avoided at that time (and still is today) on utility invoices because it can sometimes screw up when printing.

50548
Oct 17, 2007, 12:34 PM
Switzerland may be rich but the market's also very small due to the small size of the country. When you break down the market into the three (major) language regions you don't get more than 2 million people for each segment of which maybe 10'000-20'000 are potential buyers. When looking at the sales numbers of the iPhone you'll quickly see that this number is total peanuts for Apple and there's no real impetus for bringing the phone here anytime soon. It's simply not worth the trouble.

So I guess we'll have to walk across the border to France and get the phone for 1700 CHF :-)

kis

Unfort. I have to agree with you, at least partly...Apple may see CH as a comparatively small market...yet it is a very interesting place to sell products at a premium...but not for 1700 CHF, please... ;)

50548
Oct 17, 2007, 12:37 PM
Sorry but I couldn't resist. :D

Maybe Swiss people are richer because they (their banks) helped the Nazis robbing the Jews and other minorities during WWII. Or maybe because they (their banks) did help criminals of all over the world to laundry and hide money.

Just maybe... :p

Again this crap about "robbing jews"? Please don't start, because it makes no sense at all...people invest in CH because they still see it as a stable place with a great cluster of financial services...money laundering is just a distortion of the system, because of the corruption practiced by many in the world, including wonderful African leaders full of international "aid" money.

As a matter of fact, I am pretty sure Israel got enough payments already for the zionist community...in fact, MUCH more than enough, as these "indemnities" seem to have no end whatsoever. What if you start paying now for the racist massacres and discrimination against Palestinians and the like?

Not an interesting take on the subject, right? So let's get back on topic here.

OllyW
Oct 17, 2007, 12:41 PM
Sorry but I couldn't resist. :D

Maybe Swiss people are richer because they (their banks) helped the Nazis robbing the Jews and other minorities during WWII. Or maybe because they (their banks) did help criminals of all over the world to laundry and hide money.

Just maybe... :p

Is there a fortune to be made washing money? :rolleyes:

sananda
Oct 17, 2007, 12:42 PM
Is there a fortune to be made washing money ? :rolleyes:

yes, there is.

Matthι
Oct 18, 2007, 03:06 AM
Once an official 'unlocked' version is out, it will take the usual hackers a relative small effort to somehow duplicate the software on those phones to the other 'locked' versions - once that's possible, you can easily use your lower priced phone and update it just as easy instead of all the unlocking fuss now
a higher priced version wil not sell well unless it's a very small difference

Reach
Nov 10, 2007, 11:39 AM
Well, I'm ordering one from the us today.. Hopefully the french version won't be unlocked and cheap :p