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bretm
Oct 17, 2007, 10:11 AM
From apple website...


Third Party Applications on the iPhone
Let me just say it: We want native third party applications on the iPhone, and we plan to have an SDK in developers’ hands in February. We are excited about creating a vibrant third party developer community around the iPhone and enabling hundreds of new applications for our users. With our revolutionary multi-touch interface, powerful hardware and advanced software architecture, we believe we have created the best mobile platform ever for developers. It will take until February to release an SDK because we’re trying to do two diametrically opposed things at once—provide an advanced and open platform to developers while at the same time protect iPhone users from viruses, malware, privacy attacks, etc. This is no easy task. Some claim that viruses and malware are not a problem on mobile phones—this is simply not true. There have been serious viruses on other mobile phones already, including some that silently spread from phone to phone over the cell network. As our phones become more powerful, these malicious programs will become more dangerous. And since the iPhone is the most advanced phone ever, it will be a highly visible target. Some companies are already taking action. Nokia, for example, is not allowing any applications to be loaded onto some of their newest phones unless they have a digital signature that can be traced back to a known developer. While this makes such a phone less than “totally open,” we believe it is a step in the right direction. We are working on an advanced system which will offer developers broad access to natively program the iPhone’s amazing software platform while at the same time protecting users from malicious programs. We think a few months of patience now will be rewarded by many years of great third party applications running on safe and reliable iPhones. Steve P.S.: The SDK will also allow developers to create applications for iPod touch.



psychofreak
Oct 17, 2007, 10:15 AM
Awesome...I'll probably get it when I can use VoIP, so I can unlock the phone and pay very little (I mostly use my mobile where I have WiFi) :)

jaw04005
Oct 17, 2007, 10:23 AM
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/

Third Party Applications on the iPhone
Let me just say it: We want native third party applications on the iPhone, and we plan to have an SDK in developers’ hands in February. We are excited about creating a vibrant third party developer community around the iPhone and enabling hundreds of new applications for our users. With our revolutionary multi-touch interface, powerful hardware and advanced software architecture, we believe we have created the best mobile platform ever for developers.

It will take until February to release an SDK because we’re trying to do two diametrically opposed things at once—provide an advanced and open platform to developers while at the same time protect iPhone users from viruses, malware, privacy attacks, etc. This is no easy task. Some claim that viruses and malware are not a problem on mobile phones—this is simply not true. There have been serious viruses on other mobile phones already, including some that silently spread from phone to phone over the cell network. As our phones become more powerful, these malicious programs will become more dangerous. And since the iPhone is the most advanced phone ever, it will be a highly visible target.

Some companies are already taking action. Nokia, for example, is not allowing any applications to be loaded onto some of their newest phones unless they have a digital signature that can be traced back to a known developer. While this makes such a phone less than “totally open,” we believe it is a step in the right direction. We are working on an advanced system which will offer developers broad access to natively program the iPhone’s amazing software platform while at the same time protecting users from malicious programs.

We think a few months of patience now will be rewarded by many years of great third party applications running on safe and reliable iPhones.

Steve

P.S.: The SDK will also allow developers to create applications for iPod touch. [Oct 17, 2007]

Speedracer04
Oct 17, 2007, 10:25 AM
thank the lord. finally apple has gotten some common sense! only thing is that we have to wait until Feb :rolleyes:

MacRumors
Oct 17, 2007, 10:26 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Steve Jobs has posted an open letter revealing that Apple will be releasing a 3rd party SDK for iPhone and iPod Touch development. The SDK will be released in February 2008.

At this time, the letter only appears on Apple's Hot News page (http://www.apple.com/hotnews/):

We've reproduced it here in its entirety:
Let me just say it: We want native third party applications on the iPhone, and we plan to have an SDK in developers’ hands in February. We are excited about creating a vibrant third party developer community around the iPhone and enabling hundreds of new applications for our users. With our revolutionary multi-touch interface, powerful hardware and advanced software architecture, we believe we have created the best mobile platform ever for developers.

It will take until February to release an SDK because we’re trying to do two diametrically opposed things at once—provide an advanced and open platform to developers while at the same time protect iPhone users from viruses, malware, privacy attacks, etc. This is no easy task. Some claim that viruses and malware are not a problem on mobile phones—this is simply not true. There have been serious viruses on other mobile phones already, including some that silently spread from phone to phone over the cell network. As our phones become more powerful, these malicious programs will become more dangerous. And since the iPhone is the most advanced phone ever, it will be a highly visible target.

Some companies are already taking action. Nokia, for example, is not allowing any applications to be loaded onto some of their newest phones unless they have a digital signature that can be traced back to a known developer. While this makes such a phone less than “totally open,” we believe it is a step in the right direction. We are working on an advanced system which will offer developers broad access to natively program the iPhone’s amazing software platform while at the same time protecting users from malicious programs.

We think a few months of patience now will be rewarded by many years of great third party applications running on safe and reliable iPhones.

Steve

P.S.: The SDK will also allow developers to create applications for iPod touch. [Oct 17, 2007]



Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/17/steve-jobs-announces-3rd-party-sdk-for-iphone-for-february-2008/)

jaw04005
Oct 17, 2007, 10:26 AM
Exciting. I just hope they aren't directly distributed from iTunes.

Marcjcd
Oct 17, 2007, 10:26 AM
thank the lord. finally apple has gotten some common sense! only thing is that we have to wait until Feb :rolleyes:

Yes and we know that if SJ says Feb that really means the last day of Feb!

mkaake
Oct 17, 2007, 10:27 AM
Maybe this will finally put and end to the whining, while simultaneously giving others (and myself, for that matter) a compelling reason to consider the iPhone (or iPod Touch)...

4God
Oct 17, 2007, 10:28 AM
Wow! I love it. Lots of great apps coming now....(or at least in a few months). :D
This is only the beginning.

plinden
Oct 17, 2007, 10:28 AM
thank the lord. finally apple has gotten some common sense! only thing is that we have to wait until Feb :rolleyes:

Yeah, why couldn't they have thought of doing this before? I mean, if they'd planned on doing this all along, they'd probably be announcing around about now that they'll be releasing an SDK in February.

wheezy
Oct 17, 2007, 10:29 AM
Will some of the nay-sayers finally shut up now? Please!!

I can't imagine how amazing a device the iPhone is going to be in 1-2 years. I'm excited!

GodzPeepz
Oct 17, 2007, 10:29 AM
WOW!:eek:

I sure glad that Steve is starting to realize that we need our 3rd party apps on our phone!

DoreanGrae
Oct 17, 2007, 10:29 AM
Hope this helps to assuage the complaints about third-party support. I can wait a few more months.

Good job, Steve.

hooch
Oct 17, 2007, 10:29 AM
I have said it many times, but I really need to buy appl stock now. This is going to make a lot of people think twice.

Peace
Oct 17, 2007, 10:29 AM
Steve is right on with this delay until February.There are virusus and malware on some cellphones.

Now I wish only that people would stop hacking their phones so engineers can breath a little better.The happier a coder is the better the code. ;)

LxTxNx
Oct 17, 2007, 10:30 AM
VERY NICE! I can't wait

Nicky G
Oct 17, 2007, 10:30 AM
I'm blown away, not only that they are doing it, but that they announced it now and not at Macworld... Makes me wonder what goodies await us in January, that such a huge announcement they are happy to spill now? Maybe they want to spur a lot of holiday sales of iPhone and iPod touch.

DTphonehome
Oct 17, 2007, 10:30 AM
Wow, this is going to be KILLER...so long Treo!

CrackedButter
Oct 17, 2007, 10:31 AM
This is excellent news, much what people thought would happen, I'm more inclined to buy a new iTouch now.

bugfaceuk
Oct 17, 2007, 10:31 AM
Well done Apple. Now... when will the MS BU release Word for iPhone?????

DTphonehome
Oct 17, 2007, 10:31 AM
I have said it many times, but I really need to buy appl stock now. This is going to make a lot of people think twice.

So stop saying it and do it already! The market waits for no one.

bytethese
Oct 17, 2007, 10:32 AM
*in his best Ren voice*

"Oooooh joy!" :)

WRXHokie
Oct 17, 2007, 10:32 AM
Well done.... is this what they've been planning all along or have they found that there is no way to stop this from happening, so they might as well play along? Thats the question in my mind.

elppa
Oct 17, 2007, 10:32 AM
This was entirely predictable, an SDK was coming at some stage. The reasons outlined are perfectly acceptable. It is also acceptable that Apple wanted the product to bed down in the market before opening up the platform.

Remember — the first Mac didn't have and SDK.

Please note Jobs also says they "plan" for February, not "definitely" February, so don't start whinging on Feb 1st when we don't have your SDK.

psychofreak
Oct 17, 2007, 10:32 AM
This is excellent news, much what people thought would happen, I'm more inclined to buy a new iTouch now.

Hopefully the iPod touch will go 32GB around this time, and I'll sprint to the Apple store to get it :)

twoodcc
Oct 17, 2007, 10:33 AM
i'm sure this will make many happy. looking forward to new apps in Feb :cool:

DeaconGraves
Oct 17, 2007, 10:33 AM
Works for me.

If I want to use 3rd party applications (I have yet to do so), I want them to just work. Not have to jump through the hoops to get it initially set up and then have to do it all over again when Apple updates.

If it means waiting until Feb. then so be it.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to put my ear to the ground to listen for the herd of trolls likely heading this way.

WaRrK
Oct 17, 2007, 10:33 AM
So... does this make the iPod Touch the Newton replacement we've all been waiting for? :)

I guess the iPhone and touch will get feature parity now - if you can write apps for both it seems silly not having mail etc. on the touch too!

DotComCTO
Oct 17, 2007, 10:33 AM
Outstanding news!!

I didn't need it now...I just wanted official confirmation and timing. Now I feel a whole lot better.

:apple:

--DotComCTO

Marcjcd
Oct 17, 2007, 10:34 AM
This was entirely predictable, an SDK was coming at some stage. The reasons outlined are perfectly acceptable. It is also acceptable that Apple wanted the product to bed down in the market before opening up the platform.

Remember — the first Mac didn't have and SDK.

Please note Jobs also says they "plan" for February, not "definitely" February, so don't start whinging on Feb 1st when we don't have your SDK.

Wouldnt make a difference if he said "definitely", we all know that when Jobs says February he really means the day before March 1st.

n-abounds
Oct 17, 2007, 10:34 AM
Gotta get rid of some of that bad press surrounding Apple lately.

<wonders if they'll let VoIP on it>

kungfu
Oct 17, 2007, 10:34 AM
ye of little faith...

Multimedia
Oct 17, 2007, 10:34 AM
Thank you Steve.

Random Ping
Oct 17, 2007, 10:35 AM
I think I am going to cry.

psychofreak
Oct 17, 2007, 10:35 AM
So... does this make the iPod Touch the Newton replacement we've all been waiting for? :)

Without the handwriting recognition...or ability to use as a phone (http://www.tuaw.com/2007/10/02/rig-of-the-week-newton-as-telephone/) (as far as we know)...

bugfaceuk
Oct 17, 2007, 10:35 AM
So... does this make the iPod Touch the Newton replacement we've all been waiting for? :)

I guess the iPhone and touch will get feature parity now - if you can write apps for both it seems silly not having mail etc. on the touch too!

Hopefully... although now there is an SDK... the sky is the limit, people can and will do whatever they want.

GTiPhone
Oct 17, 2007, 10:35 AM
All I can say is ....whoohooo!:D:D:D:D

darrinaw
Oct 17, 2007, 10:36 AM
Nice. It was bound to happen. Until then, I am stoked to think about the possibilities....

ejrizo
Oct 17, 2007, 10:36 AM
MacWorld 2008

announcement

16gb iphone

and i know we said until feb... but the iphone Developers Kit is available TODAY on apple.com

BOOM! (In Steve Jobs Voice)


im so happy to finally hear something official and cant wait to see what great things come to iphone! :-)

elppa
Oct 17, 2007, 10:37 AM
Well done.... is this what they've been planning all along or have they found that there is no way to stop this from happening, so they might as well play along? Thats the question in my mind.

Planned all along I say.

They had a hard enough job trying to get such a sophisticated piece of technology out the door for June. Trying to support third party apps would have made it even harder and inevitably lead to delay or serious problems. And serious problems would have damaged the reputation of the platform anyway.

Jobs clearly seems irked by some of the criticism, much of which from people with no comprehension of the engineering challenges and technical issues.

Small White Car
Oct 17, 2007, 10:37 AM
I sure glad that Steve is starting to realize that we need our 3rd party apps on our phone!

Did you read the letter at all? It's pretty clear that this has been the plan all along, it's just taking them time.

What they DID realize is that people can't be patient if they don't know what's coming. Not saying this sooner was a mistke.

Steve SHOULD have said this back when they told developers to make web-apps. You know "we'll have an SDK in 2008, but to tide you over until then, you can make web-apps."

That would have made everyone a lot happier, I think, even though it's no different from what we got.

mrowl
Oct 17, 2007, 10:37 AM
Gotta get rid of some of that bad press surrounding Apple lately.

<wonders if they'll let VoIP on it>

its only bad if you were stupid enough to update to 111 after unlocking

Rot'nApple
Oct 17, 2007, 10:37 AM
I'm blown away, not only that they are doing it, but that they announced it now and not at Macworld... Makes me wonder what goodies await us in January,...

iPhone Gen2 :D

itickings
Oct 17, 2007, 10:37 AM
I don't know if I should say "wow" or "finally". Maybe both. Just a couple of hours ago there was no way I'd get an iPod touch, and now... Damn. I want one.

Let's hope the SDK indeed is useful and secure... :)

bugfaceuk
Oct 17, 2007, 10:38 AM
Wouldnt make a difference if he said "definitely", we all know that when Jobs says February he really means the day before March 1st.

You see this negative attitude really upsets me.

CLEARLY he means after 6pm on the last working day of the month.

Nicolasdec
Oct 17, 2007, 10:39 AM
In February the iphone is going to be too old.

Rot'nApple
Oct 17, 2007, 10:41 AM
Did you read the letter at all? It's pretty clear that this has been the plan all along, it's just taking them time.

What they DID realize is that people can't be patient if they don't know what's coming. Not saying this sooner was a mistke.

Steve SHOULD have said this back when they told developers to make web-apps. You know "we'll have an SDK in 2008, but to tide you over until then, you can make web-apps."

That would have made everyone a lot happier, I think, even though it's no different from what we got.

I agree with your sentiments above, but didn't Steve say at the iPhone announcement somewhere along the way that they weren't opposed to 3rd party apps or an SDK but that they wanted to do it right or something like that. I thought that was expressed by him somewhere along the way???

But again, double this sentiment... "What they DID realize is that people can't be patient if they don't know what's coming. Not saying this sooner was a mistake."

Random Ping
Oct 17, 2007, 10:41 AM
I have said it many times, but I really need to buy appl stock now. This is going to make a lot of people think twice.

We bought a bunch of Apple stock back 10 years ago when Apple bought NeXT (I had a NeXTstation and was in love with the OpenStep development environment!). Split-adjusted, it was about $4 a share back then.

My only regret was unloading some of it when it hit $90 thinking then that it had run up too much. :(

Island Dog
Oct 17, 2007, 10:41 AM
Great news.

elppa
Oct 17, 2007, 10:42 AM
Wouldnt make a difference if he said "definitely", we all know that when Jobs says February he really means the day before March 1st.

You and me know this, but not quite everyone.

Witness the "Will Leopard be delayed again?", "Leopard isn't on time…" and "They'll never get it packaged and shipped for October" threads that were doing the rounds until a few days ago.

vanmacguy
Oct 17, 2007, 10:42 AM
This is such great news. If you look around today at some of the really good apps that are available for iPhone now, just imagine what kind of quality apps we'll see once it's opened up! It's going to be amazing.

On a side note though, now that Apple announced Leopard's shipping date and the SDK for iPhone, and ideas what they're planning for the October 26 press day?

Must be something otherwise they wouldn't bother, but it seems to me that the two really big pieces of news are already out? Mmm-kay?

Cheers.

sushi
Oct 17, 2007, 10:42 AM
This is wonderful news!

The multi touch interface is the future. Cool! :)

Smart of Apple to take this step carefully due to the possibility of virus and other issues.

sweetie81
Oct 17, 2007, 10:42 AM
Why do Apple mention viruses? I think there's no virus for Mac OS X :confused: Or is this just a pretence for all the great apps that excited before, isn't it?

slicecom
Oct 17, 2007, 10:42 AM
iPhone Gen2 :D

Werd! I'm impatiently waiting for Gen2. :D

BobbyDigital
Oct 17, 2007, 10:43 AM
I can't wait for a sling player app!

Adokimus
Oct 17, 2007, 10:43 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Steve Jobs has posted an open letter revealing that Apple will be releasing a 3rd party SDK for iPhone and iPod Touch development. The SDK will be released in February 2008.

At this time, the letter only appears on Apple's Hot News page (http://www.apple.com/hotnews/):

We've reproduced it here in its entirety:



Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/17/steve-jobs-announces-3rd-party-sdk-for-iphone-for-february-2008/)

Wow. I noticed the direct attack on Nokia's "totally open" campaign against the iPhone. Very nice and underhanded in the way they say it like a compliment. I didn't realize that Apple really saw this ad campaign as any threat to market-share. People on these forums always seem to make such an issue of things, but I've never seen Apple as being that concerned with them. They have always had a closed off approach that seemed to say "we know what's best for you." This move is a pleasant surprise. Right after responding to Amazon's music store by lowering the prices of DRM-free songs, we get this. I love competition. I'm glad to see Apple responding to consumer needs and making more open devices, even if it's only been a small community that has been begging for this. I can't see how I won't be able to get mobile word and excel in the future now. Then my work will buy me an iPhone!

Great day.

-Ado

VaDor
Oct 17, 2007, 10:44 AM
This is great news...


BUT I think that their SDK only will be permitted to companies that will buy a digital certificate to apple.

I am not seeing in a near future a public SDK available... Steve give the Nokia example.. maybe Apple will do something like that..

Zeromus
Oct 17, 2007, 10:45 AM
Sweet! Hope they don't block current jailbreaks/apps in the next firmware updates, otherwise Feb will be a long time to wait.

pilotError
Oct 17, 2007, 10:45 AM
Great news for the 3rd party developer network.

Hopefully they don't force everyone to get a digital signature in order to distribute. Should be interesting to see how they solve that little dillema.

erectorset
Oct 17, 2007, 10:45 AM
Yet again, the whiners and complainers have proven hasty. The reasons make total sense.

neven
Oct 17, 2007, 10:46 AM
One thing to keep in mind: the certification process for these apps will almost certainly eliminate those that would harm Apple's iPhone profits. I don't think you'll see VoIP or IM, at least not until they can either convince AT&T to go with it or find a way not to lose money on it themselves (if they believe they would).

There may be other types of apps they'll decide not to allow; since we don't know the terms of their deal with AT&T, who knows what they might be. I expect endless bitching about this until an iPhone can be hacked to death with not only Apple's permission but endorsement (i.e. forever).

The terms Steve outlined work for me. But they'll annoy a small-but-loud group.

MikeDTyke
Oct 17, 2007, 10:46 AM
Yeah baby!

Now that's what i'm talking about. but before the zillion trolls hop on this thread whinging about how apple's just done an about face, 2 pennies worth.

iPhone OSX 1.0 thru 1.02 is based on Tiger code, ie. no binary signing, sandboxing of apps etc.
iPhone OSX 1.1.1 is closer to Leopard, ie. binary signing and sandboxing of apps.

Now when did 1.1.1 come out oh yeah Sept, and when is the premiere development platform for iphone AKA Leopard coming out? Oh yes 26th Oct.

So when Jobs says that an SDK is coming in Feb, it's not cause he's running around bolting a dev platform on, cause of all you whiners, it's because he's got a finite number of programmers and a product schedule that rates getting iphone and leopard out the door more important than working on an iphone sdk.

The SDK was always on the cards, just he couldn't say when, til now. Probably a bit of PR there to temper the hacking teams from ***** up iBricks long enough for Apple to do this properly.

M.

DTphonehome
Oct 17, 2007, 10:47 AM
Without the handwriting recognition...

The hardware is there...it can easily be added by software. This could well be the Trojan Newton.

Random Ping
Oct 17, 2007, 10:47 AM
Please note Jobs also says they "plan" for February, not "definitely" February, so don't start whinging on Feb 1st when we don't have your SDK.

Software development is very hard to schedule and deadlines often slip. Look how close we got to the Leopard release before Apple was comfortable with a version to actually announce the date.

I care very little about the actual date (although, the earlier the better obviously), the important thing is that Apple has publicly committed to it!!!!

PlaceofDis
Oct 17, 2007, 10:47 AM
Exciting. I just hope they aren't directly distributed from iTunes.

probably will be though, makes the most sense. since thats what you'll need to use to sync the apps onto it.

Small White Car
Oct 17, 2007, 10:48 AM
Why do Apple mention viruses? I think there's no virus for Mac OS X :confused:

Just because there aren't any doesn't mean there can't be any.

And really, the BEST way to write a virus is to make it look legitimate so that the user installs it all by him or herself! With computers this is harder to do since we're mostly used to buying software from trusted sources. But when people are installing lots of little apps on their cell phone it becomes much easier to fool them since thesea apps are each coming from a random place on the 'net.

I'm certain that one of Apple's methods for combatting viruses will be to make everything available in one central download location and telling people to ONLY use software on that site. There's more to it than that, of course, but that's the biggest, easiest thing they can do.

PDE
Oct 17, 2007, 10:49 AM
Nice! Good that they announced it now instead of allowing people to be irritated for several months over not being able to add certain features.

So great! I wonder if this was planned of if it's simply a result of customer pressure and many articles mentioning the deficiency - I think the latter given their previous statements about third part stuff.

Anyway, wow! This is gonna be fun.

DeaconGraves
Oct 17, 2007, 10:49 AM
I agree with your sentiments above, but didn't Steve say at the iPhone announcement somewhere along the way that they weren't opposed to 3rd party apps or an SDK but that they wanted to do it right or something like that. I thought that was expressed by him somewhere along the way???


I was kind of curious of this myself, I went back and checked. (This is from Engadget's news feed so if I can't fully vouch for accuracy.)

"We have been trying to come up with a solution to expand the capabilities of the iPhone so developers can write great apps for it, but keep the iPhone secure. And we've come up with a very. Sweet. Solution. Let me tell you about it. An innovative new way to create applications for mobile devices... it's all based on the fact that we have the full Safari engine in the iPhone."

So not a denial that there would ever be 3rd part apps, just that was the solution they had found at the time.

phillipjfry
Oct 17, 2007, 10:49 AM
*in his best Ren voice*

"Oooooh joy!" :)

its stumpy, REN was the most stressed of the two
I miss that show

Ot, i cant wait to see what gems those third party devs come up with
google maps here we come!:)

zombitronic
Oct 17, 2007, 10:50 AM
*in his best Ren voice*

"Oooooh joy!" :)

That's a Stimpy quote. Eeeeediot.

It's okay, I can understand the confusion in the wake of this shattering news.

chrisgeleven
Oct 17, 2007, 10:50 AM
Good news (even though I don't own an iPhone or iPod Touch). This definitely has been needed.

I guarantee that apps will have to be downloaded from the iTunes Store (for a small cost). Makes too much sense from both an Apple standpoint (revenue) and developer standpoint (revenue and incentive to create a good app) not to do that.

Don't expect free apps.

At least this will stop people whining about not having iPhone apps.

jmcallister
Oct 17, 2007, 10:50 AM
We can only imagine how apple will unveil this SDK, and the quality software that will come out of it. Hopefully this will turn out to be like PalmOS deving on seroids. There has to be like 2 million + apps for PalmOS even with their cruddy UI.

pacohaas
Oct 17, 2007, 10:50 AM
As our phones become more powerful...Phones plural as in "yes many people have our iPhone", or as in more phone models will be coming soon???

psychofreak
Oct 17, 2007, 10:50 AM
The hardware is there...it can easily be added by software. This could well be the Trojan Newton.

The hardware doesn't detect styluses, and handwriting recognition is pretty useless without them...

gwangung
Oct 17, 2007, 10:51 AM
Yeah baby!

Now that's what i'm talking about. but before the zillion trolls hop on this thread whinging about how apple's just done an about face, 2 pennies worth.

iPhone OSX 1.0 thru 1.02 is based on Tiger code, ie. no binary signing, sandboxing of apps etc.
iPhone OSX 1.1.1 is closer to Leopard, ie. binary signing and sandboxing of apps.

Now when did 1.1.1 come out oh yeah Sept, and when is the premiere development platform for iphone AKA Leopard coming out? Oh yes 26th Oct.

So when Jobs says that an SDK is coming in Feb, it's not cause he's running around bolting a dev platform on, cause of all you whiners, it's because he's got a finite number of programmers and a product schedule that rates getting iphone and leopard out the door more important than working on an iphone sdk.

The SDK was always on the cards, just he couldn't say when, til now. Probably a bit of PR there to temper the hacking teams from ***** up iBricks long enough for Apple to do this properly.

M.


Gee, that makes a lot of sense.

Too bad...it'll be totally ignored around here.

psychofreak
Oct 17, 2007, 10:52 AM
Phones plural as in "yes many people have our iPhone", or as in more phone models will be coming soon???

I think it means there are many phones (not just iPhones) owned by the public...

bug67
Oct 17, 2007, 10:53 AM
'Bout time. Don't know why this wasn't in place from the get-go.

pgwalsh
Oct 17, 2007, 10:53 AM
Planned all along I say.

They had a hard enough job trying to get such a sophisticated piece of technology out the door for June. Trying to support third party apps would have made it even harder and inevitably lead to delay or serious problems. And serious problems would have damaged the reputation of the platform anyway.

Jobs clearly seems irked by some of the criticism, much of which from people with no comprehension of the engineering challenges and technical issues.
I the initial release of the iPhone was - as many have said - more of a hack to get it out the door. The firmware update brought it more inline with a true mobile OS X. That's probably why the first SDK was more of a web kit. In some ways that's good because it pushed people to make cool web based apps, which there a lot. With the new SDK developers can take it to a new level.

I imagine a software and hardware update in January with new applications including an IM client and more integration with Leopard. Then the SDK which will be great.

shoelessone
Oct 17, 2007, 10:54 AM
I am very happy about this, but at the same tiem I have SOME mixed feelings.

I REALLY want an iPhone however I don't want to use it as a phone, I want the iPhone for VoIP, and I want the camera/speaker so I can easily share photos/sounds with people.

Hopefully this is still possible.

I would probably settle for iPod Touch if it worked with the Apple camera adapter, so while I travel I can sync photos to the touch and email them to friends/family/etc.

MikeDTyke
Oct 17, 2007, 10:54 AM
This is great news...


BUT I think that their SDK only will be permitted to companies that will buy a digital certificate to apple.

I am not seeing in a near future a public SDK available... Steve give the Nokia example.. maybe Apple will do something like that..

The implication in the text is that Apple are trying to outdo Nokia with an open platform that doesn't need certificates. ie. by limiting what the application can and cannot do to the phone.

M.

slicecom
Oct 17, 2007, 10:54 AM
Yeah baby!

Now that's what i'm talking about. but before the zillion trolls hop on this thread whinging about how apple's just done an about face, 2 pennies worth.

iPhone OSX 1.0 thru 1.02 is based on Tiger code, ie. no binary signing, sandboxing of apps etc.
iPhone OSX 1.1.1 is closer to Leopard, ie. binary signing and sandboxing of apps.

Now when did 1.1.1 come out oh yeah Sept, and when is the premiere development platform for iphone AKA Leopard coming out? Oh yes 26th Oct.

So when Jobs says that an SDK is coming in Feb, it's not cause he's running around bolting a dev platform on, cause of all you whiners, it's because he's got a finite number of programmers and a product schedule that rates getting iphone and leopard out the door more important than working on an iphone sdk.

The SDK was always on the cards, just he couldn't say when, til now. Probably a bit of PR there to temper the hacking teams from ***** up iBricks long enough for Apple to do this properly.

M.

Great post. Agreed.

Stella
Oct 17, 2007, 10:55 AM
Congratulations Apple for seeing the light.

The iPhone, once native 3rd party apps are here will be a true force in the smartphone world.

Mobile development on OSX is excellent.

PS. The majority of cell phone 'viruses' have come from trojans, or, via BT ( which are incredibly difficult to spread. )


EDIT: Existing AT&T cellphones can already do IM and VOIP - so there's no problem with the iPhone ( just lame excuses ).

One thing to keep in mind: the certification process for these apps will almost certainly eliminate those that would harm Apple's iPhone profits. I don't think you'll see VoIP or IM, at least not until they can either convince AT&T to go with it or find a way not to lose money on it themselves (if they believe they would).

There may be other types of apps they'll decide not to allow; since we don't know the terms of their deal with AT&T, who knows what they might be. I expect endless bitching about this until an iPhone can be hacked to death with not only Apple's permission but endorsement (i.e. forever).

The terms Steve outlined work for me. But they'll annoy a small-but-loud group.

sayler
Oct 17, 2007, 10:55 AM
I think this is really, really, really important.

I have been waiting for the first malicious 3rd-party app (doesn't even have to be a virus..) to make it into the Installer.app Community Sources. The "everything runs as root" model clearly doesn't scale. :/

In other words: I wish the SDK had been available at launch, but I got what I paid for (and hacked it at 1.0.2 to get more--1.1.1 still doesn't offer me anything significant over 1.0.2 + hax).

Even getting the iPhone to an OSX desktop level would be great...

sushi
Oct 17, 2007, 10:56 AM
Yeah baby!

Now that's what i'm talking about. but before the zillion trolls hop on this thread whinging about how apple's just done an about face, 2 pennies worth.

iPhone OSX 1.0 thru 1.02 is based on Tiger code, ie. no binary signing, sandboxing of apps etc.
iPhone OSX 1.1.1 is closer to Leopard, ie. binary signing and sandboxing of apps.

Now when did 1.1.1 come out oh yeah Sept, and when is the premiere development platform for iphone AKA Leopard coming out? Oh yes 26th Oct.

So when Jobs says that an SDK is coming in Feb, it's not cause he's running around bolting a dev platform on, cause of all you whiners, it's because he's got a finite number of programmers and a product schedule that rates getting iphone and leopard out the door more important than working on an iphone sdk.

The SDK was always on the cards, just he couldn't say when, til now. Probably a bit of PR there to temper the hacking teams from ***** up iBricks long enough for Apple to do this properly.

M.
Interesting. Makes sense. Things like this do not happen overnight or on a whim. Rather they are well thought out so they can be executed correctly.

Drumjim85
Oct 17, 2007, 10:56 AM
I can't wait for a sling player app!

This would make me want to buy a sling box.... i almost bought a PSP and their version of the slingbox... just for the TV/Video use..

Adokimus
Oct 17, 2007, 10:57 AM
Yet again, the whiners and complainers have proven hasty. The reasons make total sense.

Yes, yes. But, do you think that this would be getting pushed through so quickly if it were not for the tireless actions of the hacking community and the constant complaining of would-be iPhone owners? If no one had been complaining or trying to hack the iPhone, we wouldn't be getting this news today.

That's my $0.02

DeaconGraves
Oct 17, 2007, 10:57 AM
Phones plural as in "yes many people have our iPhone", or as in more phone models will be coming soon???

I think he's referring to the phone industry in general. Cell phones have come a long way from simply having an address book and maybe a calculator. Phone capabilities and programming are extending everyday, even if you completely eliminate the iPhone from the picture.

bdj21ya
Oct 17, 2007, 10:58 AM
This is totally and completely awesome, very exciting news. Faith restored. :)

psychofreak
Oct 17, 2007, 10:58 AM
This would make me want to buy a sling box.... Me too!

VaDor
Oct 17, 2007, 10:58 AM
The implication in the text is that Apple are trying to outdo Nokia with an open platform that doesn't need certificates. ie. by limiting what the application can and cannot do to the phone.

M.

I hope you are right and at the same time don't make apps away too limit..

We'll now soon :p

DVNIEL
Oct 17, 2007, 10:58 AM
since 2008 is a leap year, I can almost sense Steve Jobs will release the SDK on February 29th at 6:00pm :)

SheriffParker
Oct 17, 2007, 10:58 AM
iPhone just got a million times better. Now they will sell 10 Million by year's end 2008.

Sijmen
Oct 17, 2007, 11:00 AM
This is what I hope:

For private testing, developers use private signatures and can use only their iPhones / iPod touches for testing. Much like XNA and Xbox.

For public release, the program has to be signed 'for real' by Apple.

bdj21ya
Oct 17, 2007, 11:00 AM
Yes, yes. But, do you think that this would be getting pushed through so quickly if it were not for the tireless actions of the hacking community and the constant complaining of would-be iPhone owners? If no one had been complaining or trying to hack the iPhone, we wouldn't be getting this news today.

That's my $0.02

I agree in part. They may have still released it by Feb., but we wouldn't know about it until then. This news alone is going to drive development starting today, because it will encourage developers that their efforts now in learning to program for the iPhone libraries are not wasted, and that their applications may receive much broader exposure soon.

bbplayer5
Oct 17, 2007, 11:00 AM
Awesome! Now the Jesus phone can finally walk on water, without help from the Apostles.

Warbrain
Oct 17, 2007, 11:01 AM
Steve has been enjoying writing letters of late, hasn't he? Seems to be his primary mode of communication now.

teiresias
Oct 17, 2007, 11:03 AM
Great news!!! Though I do agree with those that say we're not going to see IM clients or VoIP applications appearing with any kind of Apple blessing since that would almost certainly violate whatever agreement they have with AT&T.

So, glad to see it's coming, but the breadth and use of the apps that will be approved is still in question.

iVoid
Oct 17, 2007, 11:04 AM
Wouldnt make a difference if he said "definitely", we all know that when Jobs says February he really means the day before March 1st.

And since next year is a leap year, Apple has an extra day of wiggle room to release it on Feb 29th. :)

ImNoSuperMan
Oct 17, 2007, 11:06 AM
Wow. Best news from Apple Camp in months.


Hmmm. Time to change Sig:)

DavidCar
Oct 17, 2007, 11:08 AM
I'm blown away, not only that they are doing it, but that they announced it now and not at Macworld... Makes me wonder what goodies await us in January, that such a huge announcement they are happy to spill now? Maybe they want to spur a lot of holiday sales of iPhone and iPod touch.They may have announced it now because they were getting some bad press. For example:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21206757/

pohl
Oct 17, 2007, 11:08 AM
Congratulations Apple for seeing the light.I think it's more accurate to say that they "announced the light". They saw the light at the outset, but were not in a position to make promises until they knew they could deliver them. That's the way they prefer to operate.

clancemasterj
Oct 17, 2007, 11:09 AM
What about all the wonderful "Web Apps?"

GQB
Oct 17, 2007, 11:09 AM
Well done.... is this what they've been planning all along or have they found that there is no way to stop this from happening, so they might as well play along? Thats the question in my mind.

Like that makes some sort of difference? Who cares?
But there will still be whining from the crew that wants purely laissez faire access (no certification.)

My only concern is that Apple may be reacting too much to the pressure and releasing the keys to the kingdom too early.
I want them to lock this baby down like a drum before they start letting every malware author take their crack.

DavidCar
Oct 17, 2007, 11:10 AM
This is what I hope:

For private testing, developers use private signatures and can use only their iPhones / iPod touches for testing. Much like XNA and Xbox.

For public release, the program has to be signed 'for real' by Apple.

I hope you are right, because I would want to develop applications just for my own use.

GQB
Oct 17, 2007, 11:10 AM
They may have announced it now because they were getting some bad press. For example:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21206757/

You do know what the 'ms' in 'msnbc' stands for, don't you? You expect fair coverage from that source?

MacTheSpoon
Oct 17, 2007, 11:11 AM
This is so great! :) I *knew* they would release an SDK! I can't wait, it's going to be so fun to see the creative apps that get written... :) Woohoo!

kamiboy
Oct 17, 2007, 11:14 AM
So does this mean that people will start to whine about not being able to run unsingned programs on their iPhones when the SDK hits? I think so.

zweigand
Oct 17, 2007, 11:15 AM
Well, now we know what is going to be highlighted at MacWorld 08

earthsick
Oct 17, 2007, 11:15 AM
In February the iphone is going to be too old.

what? 4 months and the thing is going to be obselete? that is a silly thought especially since no other device has shown the same promise or created the same buzz.

GQB
Oct 17, 2007, 11:15 AM
Did you read the letter at all? It's pretty clear that this has been the plan all along, it's just taking them time.

What they DID realize is that people can't be patient if they don't know what's coming. Not saying this sooner was a mistke.

Steve SHOULD have said this back when they told developers to make web-apps. You know "we'll have an SDK in 2008, but to tide you over until then, you can make web-apps."

That would have made everyone a lot happier, I think, even though it's no different from what we got.

Well put.

al256
Oct 17, 2007, 11:15 AM
Another thread on this is here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4341280#post4341280) :)

I don't want to be on that huge thread.... yuck. Too many people just posting to be posting or because they can't stop and think about what they are posting... no thank you. I'm glad someone started a smaller thread.

135 days (assuming 2/29/2008) left till develops can start their work plus another month or two for some real apps... My gosh, that is just a crazy long time to wait. I hope Apple will at least let select develops start making apps as they finalizing the SDK.

iVoid
Oct 17, 2007, 11:16 AM
The hardware is there...it can easily be added by software. This could well be the Trojan Newton.

Actually, since the iPHone's touchscreen responds to a finger and not a stylus adding handwrittign recognition might not be easy. I guess you could draw out each character with your finger, but it would be harder to write whole words on the small screen that way.

gugy
Oct 17, 2007, 11:17 AM
Great move Steve. Go Apple!

I hope the whiners will finally SHUT-UP!:eek: but that is wishful thinking.

ruckus
Oct 17, 2007, 11:17 AM
This is what I've been waiting for! Guess I'll get me an iPhone soon! Then again, I still have some problems with the current system so maybe i'll wait it out longer.

plumbingandtech
Oct 17, 2007, 11:18 AM
Just like I and others said.

It.
Simply.
Was.
Not.
Ready.
Yet.

It.
Will.
Be.
In.
Feb.

Congrats apple!

This platform is going to be SOOO COOOL!!

P.s. Buh bye Palm.


:D

whitecom
Oct 17, 2007, 11:18 AM
Woah! Slingbox, here we come!

Marx55
Oct 17, 2007, 11:18 AM
Steve, you are my HERO!

Great!

THANKS FOR LISTENING!

Ramsos
Oct 17, 2007, 11:19 AM
This is gret for me, i'm one of those guys who has an iPhone and would never consider hacking it. But I'm excited about more programs for my iPhone.

TheSpaz
Oct 17, 2007, 11:20 AM
YAY! FINALLY! I can't wait now!

boss1
Oct 17, 2007, 11:20 AM
Will some of the nay-sayers finally shut up now? Please!!


ok fine

javaguy
Oct 17, 2007, 11:21 AM
I am soooo looking forward to getting an iMac loaded with Leopard and its development tools. Its been years since I've written any code for the Mac and on a personal level I'd like to get back to it. Hopefully the iPhone/iTouch SDK will be available for free through ADC as opposed to just for the premier membership.

Unfortunately the interest is personal, not work related - at least ... not yet. Let me loose with it and maybe I can bend a few ears.:D

seedster2
Oct 17, 2007, 11:22 AM
what? 4 months and the thing is going to be obselete? that is a silly thought especially since no other device has shown the same promise or created the same buzz.

4 months is a long time in the cell market.

LG, HTC and Samsung are already releasing competitors.

Nokia's touch offering showed a demo with some really cool functionalities. It's entirely possible

GQB
Oct 17, 2007, 11:24 AM
I would probably settle for iPod Touch if it worked with the Apple camera adapter, so while I travel I can sync photos to the touch and email them to friends/family/etc.

You know, I hadn't thought of a camera adaptor, but I actually REALLY like that idea. A higher quality, snap-on camera. Brilliant. I would actually prefer this, not settle for it. :)

AdeFowler
Oct 17, 2007, 11:26 AM
Nice move Apple.

I wonder if apps will be sold/installed by iTunes?

badcrumble
Oct 17, 2007, 11:26 AM
Here's hoping that they're okay with stuff like an AIM program that goes through the data connection rather than SMS. A lot of the other homebrew is pretty darn cool but really, that's the only specific thing that I want that I have doubts about AT&T allowing, since SMS-based AIM and such can be so lucrative for them.

cmaier
Oct 17, 2007, 11:28 AM
thank the lord. finally apple has gotten some common sense! only thing is that we have to wait until Feb :rolleyes:

Apple was surely planning this all along. The only people without sense are those who thought Apple wasn't going to do it.

TitoC
Oct 17, 2007, 11:28 AM
Can't wait to see developers currently making nice 3rd party apps for the iPhone switching over to an official SDK and seeing what they come up with.

I also think that the way this whole situation played out (the iPhone originally being released WITHOUT an SDK) worked out in some ways for the best. Here you had developers being really creative, not being payed for their work, finding their way around the iPhone blindly and still coming out with some real nice work. Just imagine what these guys can do WITH an SDK from Apple.

Kudos to Apple AND the early 3rd party developers.
The cat can now place "nice" with the mouse.

These are going to be some interesting times . . . . .

Peace
Oct 17, 2007, 11:29 AM
WTH??

I paid $600 for a phone with limited apps on it.Then the price goes down and all I get is some crappy Apple Corporate greedy certificate that I used to pay for that crappy DRM-free,cheeper music.Fine.

Now!! Apple's going to have 3rd. party apps??

Are you serious??

What the hecks with that huh ?


I'm gonna make a un-apping program to hack my iPhone so I dont have all that shiny real estate corrupted with "usefull" apps.



:cool:

stompy
Oct 17, 2007, 11:29 AM
Phones plural as in "yes many people have our iPhone", or as in more phone models will be coming soon???

Best ever speculation based on one letter. Maybe you forgot the smiley?

Apple will certainly make more phones, guessing that a new one is about to be released, based on this quote? wow.

aLoC
Oct 17, 2007, 11:30 AM
If you can program it yourself I would buy one for the fun of it.

I wonder how hard it is to get an app signing key? Or if there is a preference setting that lets you load unsigned apps?

plumbingandtech
Oct 17, 2007, 11:30 AM
Just thought of something....

Now there is nothing stopping TomTom or whomever, from building a car navigation system!!

And it will be cheap seeing as how the "screen" and ram / storage space is in the phone.

Hello. iPhone. Take me to 2390 Washington Blvd.

:D

tonybeyondo
Oct 17, 2007, 11:31 AM
Nice move Apple.

I wonder if apps will be sold/installed by iTunes?

No doubt- and in reply to the Word & Excel comment earlier, I'd bet Pages & Numbers 1st. :D

IMO- the apps should be priced around $4.99, with some 3rd party stuff being distributed through iTunes as freeware/donationware. Kind of like application podcasts! :apple:

earthsick
Oct 17, 2007, 11:33 AM
4 months is a long time in the cell market.

LG, HTC and Samsung are already releasing competitors.

Nokia's touch offering showed a demo with some really cool functionalities. It's entirely possible


understood, but it doesnt take a genius to figure that by the time the third party apps really get rolling we will be seeing the second generation of the iPhone. And also call me crazy but I just dont see the knock offs coming close to being the pop culture icon the iPhone has become. People still ask me to see my phone and the thing has been out for 4 months. It seems to me this is a step to establish the software on the iPhone and iPod touch as an actual OS and not just an interface. The late release makes it appear as if Apple intended to take this step with the next generation but succumbed to the pressure in a way. This announcement was just meant to shut people up.

cmaier
Oct 17, 2007, 11:34 AM
I am sure that you will have to get a certificate and sign the app. I am also guessing that itunes will be used to install them, and they will be distributed via the itunes store.

One unintended consequence of this announcement: as someone who wants to write native apps but who has been writing webapps in the meantime, I have sort of lost interest in writing any more webapps for now.

Would be nice if Apple would announce that the upcoming SDK will include a way to package javascript apps and store them on the phone, thereby encouraging us web developers to keep plugging away until the SDK shows up.

zioxide
Oct 17, 2007, 11:35 AM
Great, now give me 3G and I'll buy one.

stompy
Oct 17, 2007, 11:35 AM
Yes, yes. But, do you think that this would be getting pushed through so quickly if it were not for the tireless actions of the hacking community and the constant complaining of would-be iPhone owners? If no one had been complaining or trying to hack the iPhone, we wouldn't be getting this news today.



I would say your last sentence is accurate.

cliffjumper68
Oct 17, 2007, 11:37 AM
This announcement only makes sense and probably has something to do with the recent legal challenges.

Rom Rim
Oct 17, 2007, 11:38 AM
Will some of the nay-sayers finally shut up now? Please!!
Uh - NO. And why only some and not all? Jobs has his back to the wall. If he doesn't and hasn't it's his own fault. And this after breaking people's devices - as many pundits say further it was done deliberately.

You may gain a few dorky apps for your precious iPhone but the basic tenet of Steve Jobs "to own and have a 100% grasp on the whole banana" has not changed and never will change. Steve Jobs is the antithesis of open source and open systems. He hates those things. Period. So you get what he gives you - or in this case after Nokia surged through the gaffe what he is forced to give you. Again, this might be perception only as regards the iPhone but Jobs had many chances. He could have nixed the idea of making bricks out of expensive devices. He could have spoken sooner. Etc. His reaction now is embarrassingly too close to the recent Nokia campaign. And finally, again, this is how Steve Jobs is. He wants the whole banana. If you like his banana, then go for it but don't expect people who are more wide awake and free thinking than you to "shut up now". Nothing's essentially changed.
I can't imagine how amazing a device the iPhone is going to be in 1-2 years. I'm excited!
I gotta leave this part in because it's so cool. :D

grappler
Oct 17, 2007, 11:39 AM
Oh my God! Christmas is here.

I can't think of two stories I would have rather seen on the front page of this site than 1) a letter straight from Steve Jobs announcing a 3rd party sdk and 2) an expansion and discount of DRM songs on iTunes.

Time for me to get back into AAPL.

EagerDragon
Oct 17, 2007, 11:42 AM
Steve is right on with this delay until February.There are virusus and malware on some cellphones.

Now I wish only that people would stop hacking their phones so engineers can breath a little better.The happier a coder is the better the code. ;)

Not only that but those that already have, are using older software that have vulnerabilites that expose them to malware. These are the same vulnarabilites that were used to hack the phone to beging with.

Of special concern are those that exist in the Safari browser. Visiting a malicious page or a good site that has been compromized can result in malicious code injection into the phone and such code can then run with zero or no user consent.

People need to maintain their phones in pristine state and apply the patches as they come along.

I bet some will take exception with the above, so be it.

Passante
Oct 17, 2007, 11:44 AM
Thanks to all the whiners who spoiled a great MacWorld keynote announcement. Damn I live for those surprises. But no, all the iPhone Hacktards had to ruin it for the rest of us :mad:

w00master
Oct 17, 2007, 11:44 AM
Uh - NO. And why only some and not all? Jobs has his back to the wall. If he doesn't and hasn't it's his own fault. And this after breaking people's devices - as many pundits say further it was done deliberately.

You may gain a few dorky apps for your precious iPhone but the basic tenet of Steve Jobs "to own and have a 100% grasp on the whole banana" has not changed and never will change. Steve Jobs is the antithesis of open source and open systems. He hates those things. Period. So you get what he gives you - or in this case after Nokia surged through the gaffe what he is forced to give you. Again, this might be perception only as regards the iPhone but Jobs had many chances. He could have nixed the idea of making bricks out of expensive devices. He could have spoken sooner. Etc. His reaction now is embarrassingly too close to the recent Nokia campaign. And finally, again, this is how Steve Jobs is. He wants the whole banana. If you like his banana, then go for it but don't expect people who are more wide awake and free thinking than you to "shut up now". Nothing's essentially changed.

I gotta leave this part in because it's so cool. :D

Well said Ron Rim

j5uh
Oct 17, 2007, 11:45 AM
I am sure that you will have to get a certificate and sign the app. I am also guessing that itunes will be used to install them, and they will be distributed via the itunes store.

One unintended consequence of this announcement: as someone who wants to write native apps but who has been writing webapps in the meantime, I have sort of lost interest in writing any more webapps for now.

Would be nice if Apple would announce that the upcoming SDK will include a way to package javascript apps and store them on the phone, thereby encouraging us web developers to keep plugging away until the SDK shows up.

I just have this feeling that Apple is only going to allow 3rd party apps by somehow storing the web app into the phone... instead of having a true 3rd party (native) application. This way it's not fully integrated into the actual phone but resides as an "offline" web app. just a gut feeling =)

farmboy
Oct 17, 2007, 11:46 AM
Sweet! Hope they don't block current jailbreaks/apps in the next firmware updates, otherwise Feb will be a long time to wait.

What part of the "secure" thing don't you get? And why would you put hackware on your phone now instead of waiting for fully functioning apps?

w00master
Oct 17, 2007, 11:46 AM
Thanks to all the whines who spoiled a great MacWorld keynote announcement. Damn I live for those surprises. But no all the iPhone Hacktards had to ruin it for the rest of us :mad:

These "hacktards" are the ones that really PUSH technology forward. Without these "hacktards" we wouldn't have killer apps such as "VisiCalc." Heck, Woz himself is a "hacktard." So get off your high horse and OPEN YOUR MIND.

w00master

yetanotherdave
Oct 17, 2007, 11:46 AM
Back of the net.

/Alan Partridge.

tonybeyondo
Oct 17, 2007, 11:48 AM
Thanks to all the whiners who spoiled a great MacWorld keynote announcement. Damn I live for those surprises. But no, all the iPhone Hacktards had to ruin it for the rest of us :mad:

I think Steve will still have some tricks up his sleeve to unveil at MacWorld ;)

:D Macbook Nano? :D

crisc
Oct 17, 2007, 11:49 AM
Thanks Steve for the news, but thank him even more for saving thousands of posts on forums about how lame the iphone is because it is not opened to third party development.

Say goodbye to unlocking sims and jailbreaking programs.

I hope you will be happy with your 1.1? firmware.

CWallace
Oct 17, 2007, 11:50 AM
I am very pleased.

It was exciting to see all the third-party development going on with the iPhone prior to Firmware 1.1.1. It will be very nice to see that happen again starting next year, with the added bonus it will be done with an official SDK as a foundation which benefits both those who write the code and those who execute it.

Evangelion
Oct 17, 2007, 11:50 AM
Third-party apps on the iPod touch! So the 400e mediaplayer I bought few days ago will transform in to a miniature computer. That is very, very cool.

farmboy
Oct 17, 2007, 11:51 AM
The hardware is there...it can easily be added by software. This could well be the Trojan Newton.

Handwriting would obviously have to be done with a stylus, and I thought that the iphone screen sensitivity system precluded stylus use. And there may be other issues such as glass thickness, etc. to be considered when pressing on with a pointed object. Don't know, just posing a question.

jholzner
Oct 17, 2007, 11:52 AM
Uh - NO. And why only some and not all? Jobs has his back to the wall. If he doesn't and hasn't it's his own fault. And this after breaking people's devices - as many pundits say further it was done deliberately.

You may gain a few dorky apps for your precious iPhone but the basic tenet of Steve Jobs "to own and have a 100% grasp on the whole banana" has not changed and never will change. Steve Jobs is the antithesis of open source and open systems. He hates those things. Period. So you get what he gives you - or in this case after Nokia surged through the gaffe what he is forced to give you. Again, this might be perception only as regards the iPhone but Jobs had many chances. He could have nixed the idea of making bricks out of expensive devices. He could have spoken sooner. Etc. His reaction now is embarrassingly too close to the recent Nokia campaign. And finally, again, this is how Steve Jobs is. He wants the whole banana. If you like his banana, then go for it but don't expect people who are more wide awake and free thinking than you to "shut up now". Nothing's essentially changed.

I gotta leave this part in because it's so cool. :D

Yep, he sure hates open source which is why Mac OS X is based on open source software as is Safari and a large number of their other technologies. You're just pissed because they did what they probably planned to do all along and now you can't complain about it anymore.

mkubal
Oct 17, 2007, 11:52 AM
OK, some one catch me up on the happenings.

At the 1.1.1 update the argument seemed go something like:

Hackers - This sucks. We have to jump through more hoops to get programs on the phone. Why won't Apple open up the platform?

Defenders - It's your own fault. No one needs third party programs. Get over it. MALWARE!!!!!!


Fast forward to today's news:

Hackers - Sweet. We're getting what we wanted.

Defenders - Sweet. Now I can't wait to get 3rd party apps. I hope you whiners are happy.


I guess I just don't understand how we went from berating people for wanting an open platform to cheering Apple for opening the platform while still berating people for wanting it in the first place.

Admittedly, some of you seem to be in a different boat where you thought the SDK was coming and that people should shut up and wait for it. That's more understandable.

Edit: BTW, I don't have an iPhone or Touch

jaw04005
Oct 17, 2007, 11:53 AM
probably will be though, makes the most sense. since thats what you'll need to use to sync the apps onto it.

I should clarify I meant the iTunes Store. I don't want to be limited to just purchasing Apple-approved applications from the iTunes Store.

jhande
Oct 17, 2007, 11:53 AM
I hope you are right, because I would want to develop applications just for my own use.

My sentiments exactly.

Dagless
Oct 17, 2007, 11:54 AM
This is absolutely tremendous news! This could even make me get an iPhone even without 3G.

I'm a bit excited about this :)

RichP
Oct 17, 2007, 11:54 AM
Handwriting would obviously have to be done with a stylus, and I thought that the iphone screen sensitivity system precluded stylus use. And there may be other issues such as glass thickness, etc. to be considered when pressing on with a pointed object. Don't know, just posing a question.

Why the need for handwriting recognition? With the advent of mass computer use, most people's handwriting is deplorable. Data entry would probably be faster with the virtual keypad than with handwriting+stylus.

BwanaZulia
Oct 17, 2007, 11:55 AM
So does this mean that people will start to whine about not being able to run unsingned programs on their iPhones when the SDK hits? I think so.

Yes. Started about 30 minutes ago. :)

BZ

mcdj
Oct 17, 2007, 11:56 AM
Let the waiting begin. February sure seems like a long time away. It's like being back in March of this year, waiting for June 29th.

I wonder if this means Apple will stop trying to slam the door on 3rd party apps now.

I also wonder how easily the current crop of apps will be converted to the SDK specs. I don't know what I'd do without Taskbar Notifier!

TeddyTheBear
Oct 17, 2007, 11:56 AM
Now with a full blown SDK from Apple on the horizon I can finally retire my trusty old Newton2100 and jump straight into the future.

I just wonder, how the rest of the mobile phone industry will sell any high end phones anymore. Maybe Apple can/will license OSX to other phone manufacturers, too?

psychofreak
Oct 17, 2007, 11:57 AM
Say goodbye to unlocking sims and jailbreaking programs.Why would SIM unlocks go away?

daneoni
Oct 17, 2007, 11:58 AM
Thanks Steve for the news, but thank him even more for saving thousands of posts on forums about how lame the iphone is because it is not opened to third party development.

Say goodbye to unlocking sims and jailbreaking programs.

I hope you will be happy with your 1.1? firmware.

I wouldn't say goodbye to unlocking just yet, didn't you hear Apple/Orange HAVE TO sell unlocked iPhones in France and that will (if nothing else) keep the unlocking lifeline alive one way or another.

I know you really wanted to but hey one can still hope right?

Yixian
Oct 17, 2007, 11:58 AM
ScummVM...

Fabio_gsilva
Oct 17, 2007, 11:58 AM
Thank you Steve.

Amem.:apple:

alFR
Oct 17, 2007, 11:59 AM
Good news. GPS app for me, please (either standalone or integrating bluetooth GPS with Google Maps).

/me waits for the haters to find something else to attack now the SDK's out of the firing line.... :)

PlaceofDis
Oct 17, 2007, 11:59 AM
I should clarify I meant the iTunes Store. I don't want to be limited to just purchasing Apple-approved applications from the iTunes Store.

ah yes i agree. i hope its more of just a distribution area, kinda like the podcast section.

Much Ado
Oct 17, 2007, 12:00 PM
The iPDA is officially here. The iPhone's potential just doubled.

chr1s60
Oct 17, 2007, 12:00 PM
Finally! Now the complaining can stop! I am glad Apple announced this now instead of waiting til MacWorld. This makes me think two things. First off, I am guessing they announced now in order to attempt to stop people from hacking their phones. Second, this makes me think there will be some other type of big announcement involving iPhone at MacWorld. I originally thought this would be the big one, but instead there will probably be something else announced and Jobs will probably preview a 3rd party app or two.

Apple is really on a roll this week! Leopard yesterday, SDK today, I can't wait to see what they announce tomorrow!

Peace
Oct 17, 2007, 12:01 PM
Finally! Now the complaining can stop! I am glad Apple announced this now instead of waiting til MacWorld. This makes me think two things. First off, I am guessing they announced now in order to attempt to stop people from hacking their phones. Second, this makes me think there will be some other type of big announcement involving iPhone at MacWorld. I originally thought this would be the big one, but instead there will probably be something else announced and Jobs will probably preview a 3rd party app or two.

Apple is really on a roll this week! Leopard yesterday, SDK today, I can't wait to see what they announce tomorrow!


That would be the 3G iPhone.;)

Passante
Oct 17, 2007, 12:09 PM
These "hacktards" are the ones that really PUSH technology forward. Without these "hacktards" we wouldn't have killer apps such as "VisiCalc." Heck, Woz himself is a "hacktard." So get off your high horse and OPEN YOUR MIND.

w00master
I was calling out the iPhone Hacktards and their whining audience.

So who is on the horse now?

Yuppi
Oct 17, 2007, 12:09 PM
My bet is that it will be a iTunes only distribution of prgrams. So no fancy open source applications for a while. On the other hand I can perfectly understand them that they do not open it now. The current closed setup is the perfect leakhole test for them. If there are holes to come in they will be found and exploited in order to run custom apps at the moment. So they kind of benefit from that.

bruk201ib
Oct 17, 2007, 12:10 PM
... I don't think you'll see VoIP or IM, at least not until they can either convince AT&T to go with it or find a way not to lose money on it themselves (if they believe they would)...

I do understand that to see VoIP is impossible because ATT will lose ton of money, but on the other hand I don't get why IM shouldn't be available. I don't think that IM will go against text messages, since they are two different things.

i.e. If i want to send a message to a friend waiting for me, i'll use text message since he won't be in front of the computer; otherwise i'll use IM to chat.

Please correct me if i'm wrong but i don't see the two conflicting with each other.

mainstreetmark
Oct 17, 2007, 12:11 PM
I skimmed this thread, but as you may suspect, this makes my day.

1. I have never seen such a polar rating for a thread: Rating (369 Positives; 18 Negatives)
2. If this news makes you nervous because someone else isn't protecting you, feel free to not install apps, or better yet, stick to a land line
3. If you still think this is somehow bad, again, no one's forcing you. You can leave.

For me, I'm already dreaming of a proper weather application, and, perhaps more important for me and my industry, a remote power distribution/generator control center. Something which is impractical in a webpage, and something a closed/controlled development environment would never produce.

PS: I might also try my bouncing-breast application. You know, the phone does have a motion sensor. ... and multitouch. ...and vibrate. OK, back to work.

pixlnet
Oct 17, 2007, 12:12 PM
Sweet announcement. I'm expecting they'll control the distribution from iTunes and only allow developers with an ADC account. I just hope they don't try to go with some subscription thing like other carriers have and that you buy the rights to the app outright.

Now, since Leopard is announced....how long until we expect a nice iPhone update to further integrate into Mail, etc. I saw some in depth reviews of new features in Leopard and theres some cool iPhone specific features :)

chr1s60
Oct 17, 2007, 12:13 PM
I just wonder, how the rest of the mobile phone industry will sell any high end phones anymore. Maybe Apple can/will license OSX to other phone manufacturers, too?

Highly doubt that one. Only phone I ever see running OSX is one made by Apple.

TigerPRO
Oct 17, 2007, 12:13 PM
I honestly think Apple had no idea what they were dealing with when they entered the cell phone market. It seems like the hacking movement forced the truth down Apple's throat that they can't overlook the strong demands of the market. In a way, I think the hackers showed Apple that thirty party developers were making the iPhone way better than Apple could ever do on its own. Apple was naive to think they could go it alone with their closed architecture. iPods: yes; computers and PDA's: NO WAY!

Cougarcat
Oct 17, 2007, 12:15 PM
This is awesome news, but can somebody explain to me why Steve is so hung up on security? The iPhone runs OS X, and OS X has never had a problem with malware or viruses. Why is he so worried now? Is there something inherently insecure about cellphone networks?

Random Ping
Oct 17, 2007, 12:17 PM
What about all the wonderful "Web Apps?"

There will be a place for both. Just like many people use both native and web-based applications from their desktops and laptops, they will do the same with the iPhone and iPod Touch.

elgruga
Oct 17, 2007, 12:17 PM
Great news! Well done, Steve.:)

servognome
Oct 17, 2007, 12:17 PM
I honestly think Apple had no idea what they were dealing with when they entered the cell phone market. It seems like the hacking movement forced the truth down Apple's throat that they can't survive against the enormous will of the people. In a way, I think the hackers showed Apple that thirty party developers were making the iPhone way better than Apple could ever do on its own. Apple was naive to think they could go it alone with their closed architecture. iPods: yes; computers and PDA's: NO WAY!
My thought is that they hadn't finished OSX for iPhone by the time they launched. Rather than allow 3rd party apps that could could be broken with updates, or reveal the flaws, they kept things closed until they made the OS stable.

nsayer
Oct 17, 2007, 12:18 PM
*in his best Ren voice*

"Oooooh joy!" :)

FWIW, It was actually Stimpy who used to say that.

GQB
Oct 17, 2007, 12:18 PM
If there are holes to come in they will be found and exploited in order to run custom apps at the moment. So they kind of benefit from that.

No, WE benefit from that.

Stampyhead
Oct 17, 2007, 12:18 PM
P.S.: The SDK will also allow developers to create applications for iPod touch.

Ha ha, you iPod Touch users are just an afterthought... ;)

Drumjim85
Oct 17, 2007, 12:19 PM
I do understand that to see VoIP is impossible because ATT will lose ton of money, but on the other hand I don't get why IM shouldn't be available. I don't think that IM will go against text messages, since they are two different things.


I don't know... T-Mobile has "the first phone that works on WiFi" .. So i can see At&T wanting to have VoIP on the iphone ... to offset TMO

QuarterSwede
Oct 17, 2007, 12:23 PM
This is awesome news, but can somebody explain to me why Steve is so hung up on security? ... Why is he so worried now? Is there something inherently insecure about cellphone networks?
No, there is something inherently insecure about OS's in general. The iPhone is one of the most popular cellphones and definitely prone to attacks once the SDK is opened up.

My guess is that they'll add application authentication like in OS X. Maybe a password dialog pops up to install?

FoxyKaye
Oct 17, 2007, 12:24 PM
That would be the 3G iPhone.;)
Ayup - and the one with a memory card slot.

You know, I really disagree with all the folks saying that "this was in the works all the time." I don't believe it's true - if anyone remembers Steve's announcement of the Safari/WebApps, it was pretty clear that they were convinced that this was going to be the one and only way that there would be any form of 3rd party development for the iPhone.

Apple sincerely believed it was selling iPods to the mobile phone market, and that's not a competitive framework for the iPhone. The lack of an actual SDK to me reflects more of Apple's naive perceptions of the mobile phone market and the role it (read: Steve) wanted the iPhone to play. Sexy doesn't sell a smartphone, the ability to be productive and expandable does.

That said, I'm very pleased with this announcement and can't wait to see what Apple does with the next generation iPhone (3G is a probable bet, but now that they've put their Beta product into the wild with the first gen iPhone, there will undoubtedly be other improvements). It wouldn't surprise me at all to see it announced at MWSF and shipping early in 2008.

GQB
Oct 17, 2007, 12:24 PM
Defenders - It's your own fault. No one needs third party programs. Get over it. MALWARE!!!!!!

Fast forward to today's news:

Defenders - Sweet. Now I can't wait to get 3rd party apps. I hope you whiners are happy.

No...
'Defender' - Breaking down the doors of a nascent, powerful OS is likely unnecessary. Apple's not stupid. Let them get the building stable before you go adding your own extra floors.

And backdoor jailbreaks to install software from god-knows where, vs a controlled, stable and supported environment with safeguards.
Tough choice there.

Edit: BTW, I don't have an iPhone or Touch

Obviously.

GQB
Oct 17, 2007, 12:25 PM
It seems like the hacking movement forced the truth down Apple's throat that they can't survive against the enormous will of the people.

god... can we be a little more pretentious?

GQB
Oct 17, 2007, 12:26 PM
This is awesome news, but can somebody explain to me why Steve is so hung up on security?

Banging.
head.
against.
wall.

plumbingandtech
Oct 17, 2007, 12:26 PM
My thought is that they hadn't finished OSX for iPhone by the time they launched. Rather than allow 3rd party apps that could could be broken with updates, or reveal the flaws, they kept things closed until they made the OS stable.

Agreed.

Apple has some of the most brilliant people in the world working for them and to say it took "hackers" to show them the benefit of 3rd party apps is laughable.

The SDK and the iPhone OS was just not ready (and will not be ready till Feb.) for 3rd party support.

Lepton
Oct 17, 2007, 12:28 PM
Hopefully they don't force everyone to get a digital signature in order to distribute. Should be interesting to see how they solve that little dillema.I think anyone should be able to get a certificate, but they will have to identify themselves to do so. In this way if malware is released with a certificate, they will be able to pinpoint the responsible party.

Avatar74
Oct 17, 2007, 12:29 PM
Without the handwriting recognition...or ability to use as a phone (http://www.tuaw.com/2007/10/02/rig-of-the-week-newton-as-telephone/) (as far as we know)...

Who needs handwriting recognition when you have a much more accurate virtual keyboard (I dunno about you but I type much faster than I write)... and now with the SDK... it's a matter of time before Speech to Text dictation is incorporated (at least for iPhone, possibly future models of iPod touch, or their next gen UMPCs, tablets, and/or PDA's that Apple appears to be developing).

psychofreak
Oct 17, 2007, 12:29 PM
Agreed.

Apple has some of the most brilliant people in the world working for them and to say it took "hackers" to show them the benefit of 3rd party apps is laughable.

The SDK and the iPhone OS was just not ready (and will not be ready till Feb.) for 3rd party support.Of course Apple is inspired by hackers, even Woz was a hacker...

Do you think Boot Camp would have come (at least at that time) were it not for OnMac?

Str8edgepunker
Oct 17, 2007, 12:30 PM
This is awesome as this is one of the things that I've been waiting for to buy an iPhone.

Now where's my 100gb of flash memory? ;)

That and drawing letters on the screen.

ntrigue
Oct 17, 2007, 12:30 PM
The ramifications of this are incredible! Imagine logging into iTunes and browsing 'approved' applications. Apple could ensure that they didn't cause unusual battery drain or install redundant code!

Apple has dangled a new prize in front of us month after month; keep it up!

dogtanian
Oct 17, 2007, 12:32 PM
I think everyones getting a bit excited prematurely, remember that when Ol' Stevey starts selling the programmes and apps through iTunes store, we'll all be moaning about how expensive they are! :rolleyes:

Iroganai
Oct 17, 2007, 12:32 PM
The SDK and the iPhone OS was just not ready (and will not be ready till Feb.) for 3rd party support.
Yeah. Does anyone remember how many apps broke when OS X was upgraded from 10.1 to 10.2, or 10.2 to 10.3 ? They need some time to stabilize the API.

psychofreak
Oct 17, 2007, 12:33 PM
Now where's my 100gb of flash memory? ;)
In my back pocket...I'm busy waiting for a 32GB touch...

Lepton
Oct 17, 2007, 12:33 PM
if anyone remembers Steve's announcement of the Safari/WebApps, it was pretty clear that they were convinced that this was going to be the one and only way that there would be any form of 3rd party development for the iPhone.I think the plan was always widgets and DashCode at release of the iPhone, which run in a sandbox, and a 'true' SDK in 2008 with more restrictions, such as signed certificates. But when Leopard got delayed, so did DashCode, so they went with WebApps as a stopgap. I still think we will see DashCode widgets for the phone when Leopard arrives.

Manatee
Oct 17, 2007, 12:36 PM
So sorry, my beloved Blackberry, looks like that evil iPhone that invaded your territory will eventually fly solo on my geek belt.

Now to sit back and wait for:
- Word/Excel editor
- "Today"-style appointment/calls/mail integrator
- File manager
- IM client(s)
- Useful e-mail client
- Freecell game
- Solitaire game
- Crossword puzzle program (for .puz files)
- Global "finder" -- like Spotlight
- eWallet
- Financial portfolio tracker
- Financial/Scientific calculator

samh004
Oct 17, 2007, 12:37 PM
I have said it many times, but I really need to buy appl stock now. This is going to make a lot of people think twice.

You mean AAPL right :p

This is excellent news, much what people thought would happen, I'm more inclined to buy a new iTouch now.

I wonder though, if a developer release a basic POP/IMAP e-mail app, whether Apple will disable it to distinguish between the two products, or allow it's continued development knowing it'll never be what Mail is ?

Well done Apple. Now... when will the MS BU release Word for iPhone?????

No need, Apple will release iWork for the mobile devices as a proof of what you can do with the SDK and it will be able to open and edit office documents no problems, naturally :)

In February the iphone is going to be too old.

I think you'll find that while computers get refreshes between 6 and 9 months, the iPhone / iPod touch lines will get updates a little slower. Plus I would imagine they want to see their 10 million iPhone's in the first year based solely on the first generation, then release a new model and get those 10 million users to upgrade.

This is awesome news, but can somebody explain to me why Steve is so hung up on security? The iPhone runs OS X, and OS X has never had a problem with malware or viruses. Why is he so worried now? Is there something inherently insecure about cellphone networks?

OS X has had a few scrapes, every once in a while someone releases a bit of malware targeting the mac, sure you have to help it embed itself in your system by showing it where to go, but it's there.

Therefore with an increased usage of macs and a lot of attention he's right to be worried, as we all are; every hacker can't wait to make his name by finding an exploit on something and instead of submitting the info to the company, exploiting it.

Taking things for granted will eventually leave you somewhere you don't want to be. Playing it safe and worrying now is appropriate, and the right thing to do.

Edit: Why do I always get the top of a new page :p

plumbingandtech
Oct 17, 2007, 12:39 PM
Of course Apple is inspired by hackers, even Woz was a hacker...

Do you think Boot Camp would have come (at least at that time) were it not for OnMac?

In a way, I think the hackers showed Apple that thirty party developers were making the iPhone way better than Apple could ever do on its own.

Read his quote.

That's is what I was responding to.

And Yes. There would have been BootCamp without whatever program it was you mentioned.

It was freaking obvious.

Apple now on Intel?
Let's make it show it can run windows.

Obvious as the day.

Dagless
Oct 17, 2007, 12:41 PM
For me, I'm already dreaming of a proper weather application...

Hmm, you too dream of controlling the weather through an iPhone.


Anyroad. I'm looking forward to iChat/MSN on an iPhone, a basic iWork editor (much like how Pocket PC have them mini Word and Excel apps). Think that's about it. Oh, and ScummVM would be awesome. It's good on a DS, but it'd free up room on my limited 1gb SD card!

There is so much potential here. I hope Apple don't screw it up somehow.

jakebot
Oct 17, 2007, 12:41 PM
Phones plural as in "yes many people have our iPhone", or as in more phone models will be coming soon???

Well, steve already said they are working on the next iphone, AND the one after that...

so yeah

Random Ping
Oct 17, 2007, 12:42 PM
The iPhone runs OS X, and OS X has never had a problem with malware or viruses.

The reasons OS X has not been the focus of large numbers of in-the-wild attacks is complicated, but OS X has had its share of vulnerabilities that could have been the target of malware.

chr1s60
Oct 17, 2007, 12:43 PM
Ayup - and the one with a memory card slot.
That said, I'm very pleased with this announcement and can't wait to see what Apple does with the next generation iPhone (3G is a probable bet, but now that they've put their Beta product into the wild with the first gen iPhone, there will undoubtedly be other improvements). It wouldn't surprise me at all to see it announced at MWSF and shipping early in 2008.

I think it is way too early for another iphone. The current phone has only been out not even 4 months. People may complain and want 3G, but as long as phones are still selling like crazy, i don't think it's too big of a deal. I also don't think we will be seeing an iphone with a memory card slot. If 3rd party apps come in February, I am sure Apple will want to see how things go before jumping right in and release another iPhone.

Fabio_gsilva
Oct 17, 2007, 12:44 PM
4 months is a long time in the cell market.

LG, HTC and Samsung are already releasing competitors.

Nokia's touch offering showed a demo with some really cool functionalities. It's entirely possible


So, just adding touch to some other device don't make the iPhone obsolete. The UI of the iPhone, and it's great hardware will keep it on the edge for a lot longer than four months, despite the competition...

IMHO, the only real bottleneck to iPhone, that is holding sales, is the fact that he is locked to some carriers, and for now it's only an US product...

Avatar74
Oct 17, 2007, 12:44 PM
I honestly think Apple had no idea what they were dealing with when they entered the cell phone market. It seems like the hacking movement forced the truth down Apple's throat that they can't survive against the enormous will of the people. In a way, I think the hackers showed Apple that thirty party developers were making the iPhone way better than Apple could ever do on its own. Apple was naive to think they could go it alone with their closed architecture. iPods: yes; computers and PDA's: NO WAY!

What makes you think that they hadn't been planning this from the beginning?

They can't just listen to the news and then one day decide, ok, next week we will have an SDK built from scratch. They had to have been testing this thing and refining it for quite some time now.

Apple has very strict product development roadmaps... 2-3 years from concept to market. During this time, their engineers are working around the clock to bring something to market in a tremendously short time frame and often this means that things like 3rd Party SDK's might not be ready when the baseline product needs to be deployed. The prototypes they tested two years ago may be nothing like the final product for which the SDK is made, hence the SDK development doesn't begin until later in the timeline.

Apple clearly knew what they were doing as research most likely showed them they could sell a million phones just fine without any authorized third party apps. They knew others would develop them in the meantime, but they had to keep their end of the AT&T bargain so they were forced to make modifications that disabled many of these hacks and THAT if anything was at least, I will concede, a catalyst to push Apple to move on getting the SDK out the door.

I just think back to when analysts said their move to Intel could flop because it would take at least a couple years just to port OS X over to Intel... so what does Jobs do? He drops the X-bomb by revealing that Apple had already been compiling it in secret since the first iteration of OS X. Even so, it wasn't that instant that the Intel Macs were ready for deployment.

My brother works at an executive level in a product development atmosphere, currently responsible for microprocessor design at AMD, and a microchip alone is a tremendous project, nevermind an entire product.

Long gone are the days when a single engineer could understand, assemble, configure and program every component of a PC's hardware and software... it's a massive undertaking to deploy a 3rd party SDK for something as dynamic as iPhone. This is a new interface paradigm, but it's still Apple, and they can't just roll out some POS kit that doesn't ensure maximum security, maximum interoperability, and maximum aesthetic uniformity and ease of use across all apps for a seamless user experience. That's not as important to other companies but I'm sure it results in Apple's SDK for this new territory being a lot harder to develop and protect from exploitation... and I don't mean just tinkerers who want to install a Pac Man ROM on their iPhone, but malicious folks who want to create viruses, etc.

jsw
Oct 17, 2007, 12:46 PM
This is excellent news. It's hard to overstate how cool this will be unless someone has developed applications for other phone OSs, like Symbian. Symbian development is a black art, which typically requires years of servitude on mountaintops before being allowed to write anything. It's a seriously difficult platform to understand and almost impossible to master. I have high hopes that Apple's SDK will be vastly easier to learn, especially for anyone with any OS X programming experience.

Hopefully they don't force everyone to get a digital signature in order to distribute. Should be interesting to see how they solve that little dillema.
I hope they do require it. Without a means to trace apps, it's incredibly easy to spread malware. The only thing that stopped (well, severely limited) it previously on earlier-gen Nokia phones was the fact that Symbian is horrifically difficult to program.
One thing to keep in mind: the certification process for these apps will almost certainly eliminate those that would harm Apple's iPhone profits.
Maybe, but I doubt it.
The implication in the text is that Apple are trying to outdo Nokia with an open platform that doesn't need certificates. ie. by limiting what the application can and cannot do to the phone.
No, I think it agrees with requiring certification but disputes that Nokia is "open".
Uh - NO. And why only some and not all? Jobs has his back to the wall. If he doesn't and hasn't it's his own fault. And this after breaking people's devices - as many pundits say further it was done deliberately.
Yes. Of course, pundits are always definitive sources.

As so many others have posted, the 1.0x versions were rushed. 1.1.1 is the first "real" version of the iPhone OS, and now they're going to start working on polishing the SDK. His "Web 2.0" talk early summer was clearly him trying to spin the current lack of an SDK, not him arguing that Web technologies were the way to go. He had no choice but to point to Web 2.0 because the OS wasn't firmed up, so an SDK wasn't possible for the typical developer. I'm sure Google, etc., got a lot of handholding for their apps.

Project
Oct 17, 2007, 12:48 PM
"we'll find a way to let 3rd parties write apps and still preserve security on the iPhone" - Steve Jobs, All Things D conference, May 2007.


For people who have no experience of working on software, for the love of god please can you shut the hell up from this point onward. There is no magic switch that Steve can pull to fulfill everyones wants and needs. These things take time. Software development is incredibly complex, particularly for what is a new platform and new market for Apple.

spydr
Oct 17, 2007, 12:48 PM
Oh how much I love these personal letters from Steve! I hope he lives happily forever!! :D

iJawn108
Oct 17, 2007, 12:48 PM
Looks like I'll be saving up for an iPhone afterall. Now I really do want it to come to Canada.

thomasfxlt
Oct 17, 2007, 12:52 PM
What makes you think that they hadn't been planning this from the beginning?

They can't just listen to the news and then one day decide, ok, next week we will have an SDK built from scratch. They had to have been testing this thing and refining it for quite some time now.

Apple has very strict product development roadmaps... 2-3 years from concept to market. During this time, their engineers are working around the clock to bring something to market in a tremendously short time frame and often this means that things like 3rd Party SDK's might not be ready when the baseline product needs to be deployed. The prototypes they tested two years ago may be nothing like the final product for which the SDK is made, hence the SDK development doesn't begin until later in the timeline.

Apple clearly knew what they were doing as research most likely showed them they could sell a million phones just fine without any authorized third party apps. They knew others would develop them in the meantime, but they had to keep their end of the AT&T bargain so they were forced to make modifications that disabled many of these hacks and THAT if anything was at least, I will concede, a catalyst to push Apple to move on getting the SDK out the door.

I just think back to when analysts said their move to Intel could flop because it would take at least a couple years just to port OS X over to Intel... so what does Jobs do? He drops the X-bomb by revealing that Apple had already been compiling it in secret since the first iteration of OS X. Even so, it wasn't that instant that the Intel Macs were ready for deployment.

My brother works at an executive level in a product development atmosphere, currently responsible for microprocessor design at AMD, and a microchip alone is a tremendous project, nevermind an entire product.

Long gone are the days when a single engineer could understand, assemble, configure and program every component of a PC's hardware and software... it's a massive undertaking to deploy a 3rd party SDK for something as dynamic as iPhone. This is a new interface paradigm, but it's still Apple, and they can't just roll out some POS kit that doesn't ensure maximum security, maximum interoperability, and maximum aesthetic uniformity and ease of use across all apps for a seamless user experience. That's not as important to other companies but I'm sure it results in Apple's SDK for this new territory being a lot harder to develop and protect from exploitation... and I don't mean just tinkerers who want to install a Pac Man ROM on their iPhone, but malicious folks who want to create viruses, etc.

Welcome to the beginning of the Apple era! OSX will become the default platform for portable and handheld computing (which ultimately includes gaming). It will take the analysts awhile to get it, so don't be surprised if the stock dips or doesn't react. Wall Street will figure it out soon enough. I think we'll see a few new apps. with the release of Leopard. Certainly improvements and significant enough to create a groundswell in front of the Holiday. JMO

Other manufacturers can build great phones, but the iPhone is something else entirely, isn't it.

Stang68
Oct 17, 2007, 12:52 PM
Ahh!! This is great news. But there is still no way that my touch is replacing my LG enV because I have my phone on me all the time. My ipod is not always with me...and there is not always wifi where I go. But this is still great news if I want to look cool as I type some notes into my touch hahaha:D

BWhaler
Oct 17, 2007, 12:58 PM
Skype on the iPhone: FTW

LionMage
Oct 17, 2007, 12:59 PM
This is awesome news, but can somebody explain to me why Steve is so hung up on security? The iPhone runs OS X, and OS X has never had a problem with malware or viruses. Why is he so worried now? Is there something inherently insecure about cellphone networks?
Well, for starters, even though the iPhone is running OS X, it's not the same OS X that you're running on your desktop. It has been widely discussed that many apps and background processes running on the iPhone run as root, which is partially what enabled utilities like iJailbreak. (The jailbreak utilities also rely on a known bug in the TIFF reader which provides a security vulnerability you can drive a Mack truck through.)

It also means that a Trojan application could quickly gain complete control of the iPhone without the user being aware, and could then start doing nefarious things on the network to spread itself (or worse). All of your data would no longer be private. Root access is something that needs to be locked down, and you can expect a firmware update sometime before this SDK sees the light of day. Digitally signing applications is a simple and effective way to insure that nothing bad slips through, and if Apple handles this in a RAND fashion (Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory), potentially any developer could get their app on the iPhone or iPod Touch.

The iPhone is probably the first platform that Apple has produced since the Mac Classic that is guaranteed to attract a lot of attention from virus and malware writers. (And most of the Mac Classic viruses were relatively harmless pranks. Smartphone exploits are almost certainly not going to be harmless pranks.)

naroola
Oct 17, 2007, 01:00 PM
Way to go Steve... This is great news!

But I really wish the SDK would allow for true MS-Exchange support - Email, Calendar and Company Directory - even if it's from a desktop redirector application. My Blackberry has that and it works beautifully. That's the only thing I miss on the iPhone. So currently I look like a cool dork carrying two phones... cool = iPhone, dork = Blackberry. :D

Fabio_gsilva
Oct 17, 2007, 01:01 PM
Banging.
head.
against.
wall.


kakakakakaka!:D
LOL!

lazyrighteye
Oct 17, 2007, 01:02 PM
So, an SDK in February?
Neat. And by "neat" I mean "smart."

So... how long after said SDK release before we would start seeing the proverbial rush of 3rd party apps hit the street? Days, weeks, months?

Also, wouldn't it be so Apple to have a new iPhone by then that is required to run these 3rd party apps? :P

ivi7
Oct 17, 2007, 01:02 PM
I will be hoping for firefox, adium, skype :)

iJed
Oct 17, 2007, 01:05 PM
This is excellent news! The iPhone will almost certainly now continue to outsell every other smartphone there is.

I am hoping the SDK will be available to everyone though. As I would very much like to develop some apps for my iPod touch. Actually, with this news, I kind of wish that I'd waited to November for the UK iPhone launch rather than got the touch. I'll probably wait till the 3G version is available befor upgrading now.

nxent
Oct 17, 2007, 01:06 PM
... and that, my friends, is when I will be betting my iphone.

paja
Oct 17, 2007, 01:06 PM
OK, some one catch me up on the happenings.

At the 1.1.1 update the argument seemed go something like:

Hackers - This sucks. We have to jump through more hoops to get programs on the phone. Why won't Apple open up the platform?

Defenders - It's your own fault. No one needs third party programs. Get over it. MALWARE!!!!!!


Fast forward to today's news:

Hackers - Sweet. We're getting what we wanted.

Defenders - Sweet. Now I can't wait to get 3rd party apps. I hope you whiners are happy.


I guess I just don't understand how we went from berating people for wanting an open platform to cheering Apple for opening the platform while still berating people for wanting it in the first place.

Admittedly, some of you seem to be in a different boat where you thought the SDK was coming and that people should shut up and wait for it. That's more understandable.

Edit: BTW, I don't have an iPhone or Touch

LOL, I couldn't have said it better myself!
----------------------------------------------
MBP 2.0Ghz / 8GBiPhone / 3GNano / :apple:TV

Prof.
Oct 17, 2007, 01:07 PM
Third party apps for the iPod touch too!!! I CAN'T WAIT!!!

Prof. :apple:

jakebot
Oct 17, 2007, 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougarcat View Post
This is awesome news, but can somebody explain to me why Steve is so hung up on security?

Banging.
head.
against.
wall.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Best post ever

Rom Rim
Oct 17, 2007, 01:10 PM
Yes. Of course, pundits are always definitive sources.
As long as they're not standing inline at the MR Kool-Aid dispenser, yes they are. Besides: if you weren't staggering under the weight of all the Kool-Aid you'd see the simplicity in it. 1. Nokia attack; 2. Jobs does an about face. Wow. I mean WOW. I am SO IMPRESSED.

Cleverboy
Oct 17, 2007, 01:13 PM
Yeah, why couldn't they have thought of doing this before? I mean, if they'd planned on doing this all along, they'd probably be announcing around about now that they'll be releasing an SDK in February. Simple. They were NEVER sure when it would be ready. If you've been reading what Jobs has said for EVER... they've been working to figure out a secure way to do it. This has been repeated ad nauseum. Basically, if you create an application, there will be a digital signature that goes back to you or your company, letting people know that YOU are the one responsible for it. This can ONLY be a positive thing taken on the whole. I really can't wait. I suspect everyone creating iPhone apps now, will be getting ADC accounts (or using the ones they clearly already have) and preparing for the launch day. I'm sure Apple will have all the pieces together by then (I'm sure they've been just a TAD busy in the last few months). I'm looking forward to how this all comes together, and happy that the MAJOR security issues 3rd party apps have been skirting will be settled.

Right now, the gatekeepers for 3rd party apps aren't really going to have much to tell you if someone slips them an innocuous app that trojans your phone, spreads like a plague, as the developer closes up shop ad vanishes. Right now... there's an aweful lot of trust out there, and trust alone... well, its not scalable, especially when its broken.

~ CB

surferfromuk
Oct 17, 2007, 01:13 PM
This is MASSIVE...

1) Right now the minds of a million talented and creative third party application developers are thinking 'mmh...what app shall I do?"

I'm betting even Microsoft will have a version of Office for iphone by August 2008! Even they won't be able to ignore the application needs of 100 million iphone/ipod users!

2) There will be a fixed price model on iTunes ;

$0.99 for widgets
$4.99 for simple apps/games
$9.99 for full size productivity apps

3) Apple has just done for the applications industry what they did for the music industry. iTunes will guarantee incredible visibility, no piracy and sales in the millions for each and every app...

The next gold rush has just been announced!!

plumbingandtech
Oct 17, 2007, 01:13 PM
As long as they're not standing inline at the MR Kool-Aid dispenser, yes they are. Besides: if you weren't staggering under the weight of all the Kool-Aid you'd see the simplicity in it. 1. Nokia attack; 2. Jobs does an about face. Wow. I mean WOW. I am SO IMPRESSED.

Pundits are fools for the most part.

Wrong more times then that Xserve Supercomputer in Virgina can count.

iJawn108
Oct 17, 2007, 01:15 PM
sdk=more mac sales ;)

mkubal
Oct 17, 2007, 01:17 PM
No...
'Defender' - Breaking down the doors of a nascent, powerful OS is likely unnecessary. Apple's not stupid. Let them get the building stable before you go adding your own extra floors.

And backdoor jailbreaks to install software from god-knows where, vs a controlled, stable and supported environment with safeguards.
Tough choice there.

That's lovely that you don't want to do that. Others do. If you want to be angry at people for expecting their hacked phone to work with the update that's certainly understandable. It was stupid on their part, I would agree. But if you're seriously angry at people for simply hacking their phone to begin with then you have some anger management issues to work out.


Obviously.

Dude, take it easy with the anger, ok. Jesus.

Obviously? :rolleyes: Ooo you sure burned me there. It seems that plenty of people with iPhones wanted 3rd party apps. I don't think I have to have an iPhone to think an SDK is a good idea. Obviosuly I'm wrong though. :rolleyes:

Cleverboy
Oct 17, 2007, 01:18 PM
$0.99 for widgets
$4.99 for simple apps/games
$9.99 for full size productivity appsOh, stop. No one's going to require you to BUY anything... and Apple certainly isn't going to sell everyone's applications through iTunes. That's just crazy talk. Think about the refunds they'd have to offer for bad developers. --Anyway, iTunes will certainly be used to "sync" apps to the phone after they've been downloaded into the proper place.

~ CB

Swift
Oct 17, 2007, 01:18 PM
For a long time, people in the know have been saying that something like this is coming. Why didn't Apple announce it would arrive? Could it be that they thought it would dampen sales now, as people waited for the newer software? Maybe.

I think it's revealing that there will be some kind of signature on the software, so it will be a kind of "made for iPod" program at least. Maybe sold through iTunes? Third-party developers are going to love that.

I think that Apple will then also have to comply with the law, and allow phones to be unlocked and still upgraded. Once they've got legitimate and secure apps, they'll have no more excuses for "whoopsies" like 1.1.1.

On the other hand, I think they're absolutely right that sheer hacking of the phone, ingenious though it is, depends on finding system flaws to 'get root.' Once a benign hacker gets root so he's got root privileges, anybody can do that, and that's NOT good for the iPhone. I read where one of the recent adaptations to 1.1.1 depends on sending a malformed TIFF and causing a buffer overrun. That's hacking, friends, and Apple is under an obligation to close that hole, and then people would howl and scream because their apps would break.

All in all, though, this is very good news. iPhone users get the apps, 3rd party developers get their chance to make money, everybody's happy.

saxman
Oct 17, 2007, 01:18 PM
Although I don't own an iPhone, and probably won't for a while and I won't see any direct benefit, I think this is a smart move. One they should have thought about before, but it follows Apple's basic MO. It seems Apple is learning from the mistakes of Microsoft when it comes to security and some from IBM along the lines of "you can't get this anywhere else so it's our way or nothing" mentality. It will be more difficult for Apple to stay stable as they continue to grow, but at least they are willing to adjust even in small ways

DaBrain
Oct 17, 2007, 01:19 PM
So stop saying it and do it already! The market waits for no one.

Well this isn't Burger King! Seems like many people want everything NOW! Instant gratification and impatience abound. Did ya ever hear patience is a virtue? It really is and good things are worth waiting for! This will be an amazing thing for the iPhone and iPod Touch and any other devices Apple may have up their sleave!

WTG Apple, I for one will wait patiently and look forward to this developement.

We ALL win! And now for station identification!!!!! :D

thomasfxlt
Oct 17, 2007, 01:20 PM
Oh, stop. No one's going to require you to BUY anything... and Apple certainly isn't going to sell everyone's applications through iTunes. That's just crazy talk. Think about the refunds they'd have to offer for bad developers. --Anyway, iTunes will certainly be used to "sync" apps to the phone after they've been downloaded into the proper place.

~ CB

I wouldn't be to sure about that. It's very possible Stevo will require iTunes to remain the only portal by which to purchase and install approved 3rd party apps.

DaBrain
Oct 17, 2007, 01:22 PM
So... does this make the iPod Touch the Newton replacement we've all been waiting for? :)

I guess the iPhone and touch will get feature parity now - if you can write apps for both it seems silly not having mail etc. on the touch too!

That's true and apple should make these apps available now. Afterall they are the creators, no 3rd party to hold this up! How about STEVE?

TurboSC
Oct 17, 2007, 01:29 PM
I am so happy right now. this is going to be amazing.

chr1s60
Oct 17, 2007, 01:31 PM
2) There will be a fixed price model on iTunes ;

$0.99 for widgets
$4.99 for simple apps/games
$9.99 for full size productivity apps

I think the prices you just listed are insane. Apple may distribute apps through iTunes and they may charge a certain amount, but those prices are way off. First off, it is likely there will be many apps that are free. Second, $9.99 is a crazy amount for anything short of a mobile version of MS Office. I think the most an app would sell for is $4.99, anything more is going to hurt sales. I could see between $0.99 - $4.99, but anything more likely wouldn't sell unless it was an extremely ground breaking amazing app.

p0intblank
Oct 17, 2007, 01:34 PM
This is (obviously) excellent news! The iPhone just got even better. :D

This is a great day for Apple announcements; first the iTunes Plus announcement and now the iPhone having 3rd party apps? Nice. :)

!¡ V ¡!
Oct 17, 2007, 01:35 PM
Yeah, why couldn't they have thought of doing this before? I mean, if they'd planned on doing this all along, they'd probably be announcing around about now that they'll be releasing an SDK in February.

:apple: missed the boat when Mail.app was not included with the Touch. I can use Safari.app for that however I am used to Mail.app. :(

DaBrain
Oct 17, 2007, 01:36 PM
Why do Apple mention viruses? I think there's no virus for Mac OS X :confused: Or is this just a pretence for all the great apps that excited before, isn't it?

Don't forget ALL the windows people that bought an iPhone and as we all know windows is where a bulk of the viruses are at present. This is not just about OSX. Windows users are more susceptible for now, then we MAC users are. Regardless, point is this is about ALL iPhone users and I bet there are many that are windows users just like many iPod users. Something to think about. :cool:

surferfromuk
Oct 17, 2007, 01:37 PM
Oh, stop. No one's going to require you to BUY anything... and Apple certainly isn't going to sell everyone's applications through iTunes. That's just crazy talk. Think about the refunds they'd have to offer for bad developers. --Anyway, iTunes will certainly be used to "sync" apps to the phone after they've been downloaded into the proper place.

~ CB

nonsense.
iTunes is a marketplace.3rd party apps will have to be certified and licensed before they will be allowed onto iTunes. This isn't going to be open house for every hacked junk shareware class app. Quality apps sold via iTunes- there won't be any 'bad developers'.

guzhogi
Oct 17, 2007, 01:37 PM
Well this isn't Burger King! Seems like many people want everything NOW! Instant gratification and impatience abound. Did ya ever hear patience is a virtue? It really is and good things are worth waiting for! This will be an amazing thing for the iPhone and iPod Touch and any other devices Apple may have up their sleave!

Very true. Too many people today need instant gratification and don't pay attention to anything unless its big, showy & grandiose.

On the other hand, people shouldn't wait for ever in the "Oh, I'll wait since a better model will come out soon." They're the kind of people who don't buy anything.

I'm also sick of the people who say that if you're not happy w/ it, don't buy it. Unfortunately, that's not the case for everything. What if you absolutely NEED a car, or computer, or whatever but don't like what's out there? People can lose your job for not having a car or whatever just b/c they won't get something they don't like. Eventually, they'd have to suck it up & get the least of all evils. These are the kinds of people where they think $$ is the only solution. There are always other solutions, you just have to be creative.

For all those that say there aren't any Mac viruses, yes there are. Most of the ones I've heard about are proof-of-concept viruses, but there are a few bad Mac viruses. Since Macs have only like 5-6% marketshare, they have security through obscurity. That means why would any one want to do damage to such a small amount of people when Windows has so much more (90% or so marketshare)? If/when Macs & iPhones get a larger marketshare, expect to see more & more viruses.

A little off topic, but still important. I was reading the November, 2007 issue of Consumer Reports and while Apple had the best rating for technical support, they had the biggest amount of products that needed repairs. So Apple products seem to break down more than any other manufacturer, but getting it fixed is still the easiest.

al256
Oct 17, 2007, 01:37 PM
I don't want to be on that huge thread.... yuck. Too many people just posting to be posting or because they can't stop and think about what they are posting... no thank you. I'm glad someone started a smaller thread.

135 days (assuming 2/29/2008) left till develops can start their work plus another month or two for some real apps... My gosh, that is just a crazy long time to wait. I hope Apple will at least let select develops start making apps as they finalizing the SDK.


So much for not wanting to be part of this huge thread... :/

alywa
Oct 17, 2007, 01:39 PM
I think the prices you just listed are insane. Apple may distribute apps through iTunes and they may charge a certain amount, but those prices are way off. First off, it is likely there will be many apps that are free. Second, $9.99 is a crazy amount for anything short of a mobile version of MS Office. I think the most an app would sell for is $4.99, anything more is going to hurt sales. I could see between $0.99 - $4.99, but anything more likely wouldn't sell unless it was an extremely ground breaking amazing app.

I think the prices he listed are pretty good. I'd gladly pay that amount for some good games, and widgets I actually want (ie sports scorboards, etc).

As far as $9.99 being too hight... have you actually ever priced software? Good stuff is expensive, and there's no real reason we won't be able to have some very powerful stuff right on the phone. Ten bucks is not in any way, shape, or form too much for a killer app. (Even if it is mobile)

ki4pcm
Oct 17, 2007, 01:40 PM
It would be nice if a simple ADC account or something similar gave you a digital certificate to create applications. If they make it free (or very cheap) to get the certificate then that will allow a large variety of software but if something causes major problems they can trace it to a developer.

I'm fine with a iTunes distribution model. The developer could choose to release for free (like podcasts) or the applications could have a simple fee structure. Then if there's a problem with an application that developers whole catalogue can be removed while the application/developer are investigated.

I think that's the best way to keep the iPhone very open for 3rd party apps and still protect the system security.

Now can Apple pass on payments from people downloading my applications in the form of iTunes credit?? :D

morespce54
Oct 17, 2007, 01:40 PM
I'm blown away, not only that they are doing it, but that they announced it now and not at Macworld... Makes me wonder what goodies await us in January, that such a huge announcement they are happy to spill now? Maybe they want to spur a lot of holiday sales of iPhone and iPod touch.

Well, I think it's a much bigger announcement for us than for Mr. John Doe... :)
I can't see Mr. John Doe thinking about purchasing an iPhone for his daughter for Christmas but holding back just because there is no SDK available (yet)... :rolleyes:

icecone
Oct 17, 2007, 01:41 PM
will the unlocked iphones able to update?:rolleyes:

!¡ V ¡!
Oct 17, 2007, 01:43 PM
I think the prices you just listed are insane. Apple may distribute apps through iTunes and they may charge a certain amount, but those prices are way off. First off, it is likely there will be many apps that are free. Second, $9.99 is a crazy amount for anything short of a mobile version of MS Office. I think the most an app would sell for is $4.99, anything more is going to hurt sales. I could see between $0.99 - $4.99, but anything more likely wouldn't sell unless it was an extremely ground breaking amazing app.

Hope :apple: is not going to charge for Mail.app, I still feel it should be included. And in relation to the iPhone and Touch how will generation be differed other than more storage, if SJ mentioned that the iPhone will have free applications and software features upgradability.