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one.bad.apple
Oct 18, 2007, 01:41 AM
With leopard coming out I feel like it is finally time to get my first Mac Desktop.

Question is... is it the right time to do it? I bought my Mac Laptop (first mac ever) with little knowledge of the MacBook world... oh was I in for an unpleasant surprise!

Random Shut Downs, Discolouration.. etc.

All the marketing about the quality and reliability of Apple pretty much went out the window for me at that point.... BUT, I stuck with Apple and I must say I fell in love for the quality of the software (but not necessarily the quality of hardware)

So how is iMac? Does it come packaged with a couple of common blunders that will keep me calling AppleCare twice a week OR (unlike early macbooks) is it actually designed well?

Should I wait a year before they get this product right, or is it safe to jump in this time?

Thanks,

~ One.Bad.:apple:



ivi7
Oct 18, 2007, 02:01 AM
I think its a good time to buy the imac. Specially because they have just recently refreshed the product.

There have been very minor issues and software updates have always sorted them out. Nothing serious enough for you to hold back.
With Leopard coming out its going to be a splendid system.

vultureparade
Oct 18, 2007, 07:47 AM
If you buy an iMac, you should look into the older white models first. The ones right before Apple changed over to the aluminum enclosures.

The new aluminum iMacs have had some reported freezing problems, but the two biggest concerns for me as a buyer are the glossy screen and the fact that these glossy screens aren't really up to the level of the last gen screens.

I have yet to see a new iMac without uneven back lighting/gradient problems. If you go to an Apple store and set the screen to a solid color, you should be able to see what I'm talking about. Also, the glossy screens aren't great for color sensitive work or bad/sensitive eyes.

So yeah, I'd check them out before you buy especially if you were dissatisfied in the build quality of your Macbook.

Sam Spade
Oct 18, 2007, 08:06 AM
This is definitely NOT a good time to buy the current generation aluminum iMac. Both sizes have significant problems with their screens, although the 20" is the worst. The current screens are unacceptable. Then there's the freezing problems.

These issues recently led me to do what another poster in this thread suggested - buy a new-in-the-box previous generation white iMac. I haven't received it yet, but it should be here in a day or two.

If you are dead set on the aluminum model, I would wait until Apple corrects the problems with the panels. It's probably going to be a while, but they will be forced to address the issue at some point.

synth3tik
Oct 18, 2007, 08:18 AM
The new aluminum iMacs have had some reported freezing problems,

From my understanding the firmware update took care of this. A rep at work just got his 24" last week and is having no problems.

I have been running Macs for the majority of 20 years and have had very little in the way of problems. The only time I have ever had to bring a product back for repair was my iPod photo.

Queso
Oct 18, 2007, 08:27 AM
OK, speaking as someone who has a new 20" iMac I've not experienced one freeze, although the first thing I did after installation was to install Software Update 1.1. The backlighting is also constant across the panel, although I've had to set the gamma to the TV setting as for me the default was significantly brighter than necessary, even on the lowest brightness setting. The glossy screen also isn't a problem, but then the layout of my room means the computer is neither facing towards or away from a window which may be a factor.

The only problem I'm having with it is the Airport Wake-from-Sleep issue where it isn't automatically re-attaching to the network I was using, although this has been confirmed as a software issue in 10.4.10, so I'm expecting it to be fixed with the next update. Until then I'll put up with manually re-entering the WPA passphrase when I wake the computer.

eianto
Oct 18, 2007, 08:33 AM
Set it up in a flash plugged it in and whamo! I just installed Vista 64bit on my PC intel duo 2core and iMAC starts up faster!

I have a 1st gen Intel Duo Core MBP and that still is quick!

GO GET ONE NOW........ THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS WITH THEM THEY ARE FIXED I DID ALL THE UPDATES NO PROBLEMS!!

Specifications

* 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
* 4GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x2GB
* 320GB Serial ATA Drive
* SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* Apple Mighty Mouse
* Apple Keyboard (English) + Mac OS X
* Accessory kit
* ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO with 256MB memory
* 24-inch glossy widescreen LCD
* AirPort Extreme
* Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
PLUS APPLE CARE AND GOT STUDENT DISCOUNT PLUS PRINTER WITH REBATE! GAVE ME A DEAL ON THE 4GB BECAUSE I WANTED THE 2.8!!

Gaelic1
Oct 18, 2007, 10:16 AM
I've had a 20" iMac for two months now. I use it every day. I have NEVER had any problem whatever! It's a great computer and I love the glossy screen. The colors are very bright and I have had no problems with reflections. The new keyboard took me about two minutes to get used to and now I don't even bother with my older, wireless one. I'd say, all in all, it is a good buy and a solid desktop computer. There are a lot of whiners out there that will find fault with anything and I'd take it with a grain of salt!;)

Digital Skunk
Oct 18, 2007, 10:33 AM
If you buy an iMac, you should look into the older white models first. The ones right before Apple changed over to the aluminum enclosures.

The new aluminum iMacs have had some reported freezing problems, but the two biggest concerns for me as a buyer are the glossy screen and the fact that these glossy screens aren't really up to the level of the last gen screens.

I have yet to see a new iMac without uneven back lighting/gradient problems. If you go to an Apple store and set the screen to a solid color, you should be able to see what I'm talking about. Also, the glossy screens aren't great for color sensitive work or bad/sensitive eyes.

So yeah, I'd check them out before you buy especially if you were dissatisfied in the build quality of your Macbook.

Where do you live? On the east coast, in Maryland and Pennsylvania at least, I have never seen this problem. All the iMacs I have seen are fine. And they have never had a problem from what I hear the users saying.

Here are some examples from people right here in Mac Rumors.

Set it up in a flash plugged it in and whamo! I just installed Vista 64bit on my PC intel duo 2core and iMAC starts up faster!

I have a 1st gen Intel Duo Core MBP and that still is quick!

GO GET ONE NOW........ THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS WITH THEM THEY ARE FIXED I DID ALL THE UPDATES NO PROBLEMS!!

Specifications

* 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
* 4GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x2GB
* 320GB Serial ATA Drive
* SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* Apple Mighty Mouse
* Apple Keyboard (English) + Mac OS X
* Accessory kit
* ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO with 256MB memory
* 24-inch glossy widescreen LCD
* AirPort Extreme
* Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
PLUS APPLE CARE AND GOT STUDENT DISCOUNT PLUS PRINTER WITH REBATE! GAVE ME A DEAL ON THE 4GB BECAUSE I WANTED THE 2.8!!

See... no problems from this user, and he got the one that everyone seems to be complaining about. I am starting to think that the people that see problems with their screens are either buying really early/bad batches of shipped iMacs, or they are wearing glasses with a yellow tint. :D

P.S. To the OP... you can wait forever for an iMac update that is at least 5 months or more away, and think you can get a perceived better quality screen or you can get your machine now and let the muckrakers watch you actually do things with your machine. There is nothing wrong with this current iMac and once you get Leopard you will be very happy with your decision.

themanfromvlad
Oct 18, 2007, 10:41 AM
I bought 24 brand new 20-inch iMacs for a lab at work a month ago....they look and work amazingly...no problems reported here.

If you are a LCD panel snob, maybe you'll be able to find an issue.

flopticalcube
Oct 18, 2007, 10:46 AM
Screen quality is somewhat of a subjective observation. I have two 20" Alu iMacs and they both exhibit a slight gradient. This is on par with the gradient found in 20" monitors around $250. The freezing problem is one that I have experienced in both machines and it only happens, for me, at high GPU usage levels or is repeatable with certain programs. In Windows XP, the new Catalyst 7.10 drivers from ATI seem to fix the problem. Given how many times my childrens' PCs have locked up playing games, I don't think its that big an issue for me.

There is not really that much in the new iMacs to boast about over the old. The CPU is a little faster, the hard disk and RAM a little bigger. The GPU is somewhat better - most of the time.

one.bad.apple
Oct 18, 2007, 02:07 PM
wow, so I see there is no clear answer to this question.

I guess I'll go to the Apple store and ask a rep a few questions... look at the screens... etc.

Other than that, do you think the "freeze" problem will be fixed with an update or is it a Hardware issue?

I don't want a computer that freezes on me!

Sam Spade
Oct 18, 2007, 02:33 PM
I guess I'll go to the Apple store and ask a rep a few questions... look at the screens... etc.
Go to the Apple store and look at the 24" and 20" side-by-side. You will be shocked at the terrible quality of the 20". Put the 24" (or both, if you like) on a solid color desktop and observe the color/lighting inconsistency across the screen. Spend a hour or so there tinkering with them. This experience will most likely make this issue very clear to you.

vultureparade
Oct 18, 2007, 03:07 PM
Where do you live? On the east coast, in Maryland and Pennsylvania at least, I have never seen this problem. All the iMacs I have seen are fine. And they have never had a problem from what I hear the users saying.

I live in New Jersey and the iMacs at my Apple store clearly have screen problems.

But I think this is a case where it doesn't bother a lot of people. I can see how someone could be ok with it.

aristobrat
Oct 18, 2007, 03:14 PM
Other than that, do you think the "freeze" problem will be fixed with an update or is it a Hardware issue?
I don't know if it's hardware or software but Apple has publicly stated that they will fix it.

http://www.informationweek.com/hardware/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=202300121

IJ Reilly
Oct 18, 2007, 03:52 PM
wow, so I see there is no clear answer to this question.

I guess I'll go to the Apple store and ask a rep a few questions... look at the screens... etc.

Other than that, do you think the "freeze" problem will be fixed with an update or is it a Hardware issue?

I don't want a computer that freezes on me!

This problem isn't nearly as widespread as you might think it is, from reading posts in this forum.

Next week, next month or next year is always a better time to buy a computer, assuming you don't need it sooner.

craig1410
Oct 18, 2007, 05:54 PM
I'd say go get one now!

I've had a 24" model since they were first released and although I have had a few freezing issues this has been a minor issue and Apple have vowed to fix it soon.

The glossy screen is simply beautiful and I have no dead pixels, brightness variations or any colour distortions. This is one of the best LCD's I have ever seen and I used to work as the lead process engineer at an LCD repair factory! The glossy nature of the screen is a complete non-issue for most people, myself included. You just need to apply common sense with regards to windows and lights to avoid serious reflections. The brightness of the screen overcomes any minor reflections. The screen is way better than the G5 iMac and the new design makes the old machine look very out of date in my opinion. I simply can't see the point in buying a discontinued machine...

Always remember that bad news is disproportionately louder than good news and there are many happy iMac users out there. There are also a good many "experts" who would find fault with anything because they are obsessed with finding something to complain about.

Don't wait any longer - we had to wait long enough for the G6 iMac so enjoy it while it's still relatively new.

Good luck,
Craig.

Stridder44
Oct 18, 2007, 06:41 PM
With leopard coming out I feel like it is finally time to get my first Mac Desktop.

Question is... is it the right time to do it? I bought my Mac Laptop (first mac ever) with little knowledge of the MacBook world... oh was I in for an unpleasant surprise!

Random Shut Downs, Discolouration.. etc.

All the marketing about the quality and reliability of Apple pretty much went out the window for me at that point.... BUT, I stuck with Apple and I must say I fell in love for the quality of the software (but not necessarily the quality of hardware)

So how is iMac? Does it come packaged with a couple of common blunders that will keep me calling AppleCare twice a week OR (unlike early macbooks) is it actually designed well?

Should I wait a year before they get this product right, or is it safe to jump in this time?

Thanks,

~ One.Bad.:apple:


Let me introduce you to a concept, I like to call it Rev. A. The new iMacs are a Rev. A item. Rev. A's are pretty much beta testers, although they might not know it. Some people think this idea is B.S. but I can't tell you how many times I've seen it proven to be true. It's always a bad idea to get the first of anything new when it comes to technology. It's even true with cars. I'm just telling you from experience, and casting the Apple "fanboy-ism" aside.

Most of the "bugs" and issues, from what I've read have been ironed out at this point with the new iMacs (except that crappy graphics card and its drivers...it's been months and people are still waiting on fixes), so if you can't hold on you should be fine with buying now (well...at least wait till october 26th when Leopard comes out). However, if it were my money, I'd wait for the Rev. B iMacs.

I'll bet you money the Rev. B iMacs have far better screens (along with all the other minor upgrades that come with each Rev.).

czachorski
Oct 18, 2007, 07:13 PM
Go to the Apple store and look at the 24" and 20" side-by-side. You will be shocked at the terrible quality of the 20". Put the 24" (or both, if you like) on a solid color desktop and observe the color/lighting inconsistency across the screen. Spend a hour or so there tinkering with them. This experience will most likely make this issue very clear to you.

I've done this 3 times at 2 different Apple stores. I have never seen a single 24" unit with the documented issues. All of the 20" inch seemed to have a slight vertical gradient, but it was so slight, that you have to look for it hard to see it, and it was hard to distinguish if it was a viewing angle issue, lighting issue from the bright lights in the store or a real issue with the screen. It was that slight. Maybe it would be more noticeable in a normal lighting environment outside the store. I don't know.

I went ahead and just ordered the 24" two days ago. I figured I would take my chances. I think they are pretty good at getting a good, working model, and if I don't I can always return/exchange. This at least gives me a pretty good chance at getting a good iMac, versus my 100% chance of not getting a good one if I don't order one.

czachorski
Oct 18, 2007, 07:15 PM
Let me introduce you to a concept, I like to call it Rev. A. The new iMacs are a Rev. A item. Rev. A's are pretty much beta testers, although they might not know it. Some people think this idea is B.S. but I can't tell you how many times I've seen it proven to be true. It's always a bad idea to get the first of anything new when it comes to technology. It's even true with cars. I'm just telling you from experience, and casting the Apple "fanboy-ism" aside.

Most of the "bugs" and issues, from what I've read have been ironed out at this point with the new iMacs (except that crappy graphics card and its drivers...it's been months and people are still waiting on fixes), so if you can't hold on you should be fine with buying now (well...at least wait till october 26th when Leopard comes out). However, if it were my money, I'd wait for the Rev. B iMacs.

I'll bet you money the Rev. B iMacs have far better screens (along with all the other minor upgrades that come with each Rev.).

Absolutely true and good advice. (If by "far better" you mean the same grade panels, but ones with far fewer of these issues. I doubt they will upgrade the panels to a much higher grade.)

I will just add the caveat that a Rev A does not guarantee you will have problems. Skipping a Rev A also does not guarantee that you won't have problems. You are just shifting your odds. Is that shift significant? Is it worthwhile versus not having the Mac at all and the troubles associated with waiting for a Rev B? That is for each person to judge.

cheeseadiddle
Oct 18, 2007, 07:28 PM
We got one of each on Oct 2nd. No freezes. The only difference I see between the displays is that the gamma looks a little bright on the 20. But that's my eyes.

jonswan
Oct 18, 2007, 09:18 PM
Ok, it is perhaps potluck taking a chance on a Rev A, but I waited a month or so, took several test drives then bought the 20 inch. It is basically perfect - an amazing machine. The screen is excellent - just don't sit with the sun behind you...

eRondeau
Oct 18, 2007, 09:26 PM
Random Shut Downs, Discolouration.. etc. All the marketing about the quality and reliability of Apple pretty much went out the window for me at that point.... BUT, I stuck with Apple and I must say I fell in love for the quality of the software (but not necessarily the quality of hardware)

Good Lord people, take a pill! I am not aware of any design flaw with the aluminum iMac's. Like any electronic product, there may be quality control issues or manufacturing mistakes. I'm not sure what Apple's defect rate is, but I'm sure it's well under 5%. Which is pretty darn good for a $1500 consumer product of this complexity. After all, even the cheapest iMac is probably twice as complex as a Saturn V moon rocket! So yes 1 in 20 new iMac's may have a slight screen variance, but 5 in 20 new BMW's have to go back to the shop for one fix or another. So everything is relative.

Me, I'd wait for Leopard to ship on the new iMac's and then buy one. But I wouldn't lose a minute's sleep worrying that it won't be 100% perfect. Because chances are, it will be.

island
Oct 18, 2007, 09:50 PM
Roll the dice; my 24" iMac (Alum) is perfect :)

booksacool1
Oct 18, 2007, 11:24 PM
Its definitely a good time to buy the new imac.
I mean FFS its just been updated!

It has intels new SR platform, DX10 capable graphics (yeah a gimmick, but sure), decent pricing and up to date specs.
It has a great new case and it looks really sexy.

Seeing as its recently been updated, you'll probably have to wait ~6months for an update.

craig1410
Oct 19, 2007, 02:59 AM
Let me introduce you to a concept, I like to call it Rev. A. The new iMacs are a Rev. A item. Rev. A's are pretty much beta testers, although they might not know it. Some people think this idea is B.S. but I can't tell you how many times I've seen it proven to be true. It's always a bad idea to get the first of anything new when it comes to technology. It's even true with cars. I'm just telling you from experience, and casting the Apple "fanboy-ism" aside.

Most of the "bugs" and issues, from what I've read have been ironed out at this point with the new iMacs (except that crappy graphics card and its drivers...it's been months and people are still waiting on fixes), so if you can't hold on you should be fine with buying now (well...at least wait till october 26th when Leopard comes out). However, if it were my money, I'd wait for the Rev. B iMacs.

I'll bet you money the Rev. B iMacs have far better screens (along with all the other minor upgrades that come with each Rev.).

...and of course Apple will be happy to share the revision level information with us won't they? Yeah right!

If there is a major problem with your "Rev A" machine then you just send it back under warranty. In the UK at least, under the sale of good act, if there is a problem within the first 6 months then the onus is on the manufacturer to "prove" that it is not a manufacturing defect. After 6 months that onus falls to the customer. So basically, make sure you are happy within the first 6 months and send it back if you are not.

Cheers,
Craig.

stainlessliquid
Oct 19, 2007, 03:43 AM
Get a WHITE 20" imac if you can, much much better screen.

My college just got some 20" aluminum imacs, and my god the screen is terrible. Just as bad as the old 17" imacs. It has nothing to do with the backlight, the backlight is nice and bright. Its the viewing angle. It has the viewing angle of a 5 year old budget LCD. Its so bad that the colors change if you just move your head a couple inches up or down.

Its impossible not to see the bad viewing angle on these machines, people who dont notice just how bad it is probably have been living with a bad LCD for awhile and think its normal. Look at a solid color background, the top will be darker than the bottom, only the middle area at eye level is correct. Tilt it to look from below, the top will be very dark and high contrast, tilt it to look from above and it will be very washed out and almost white. A good LCD with a high viewing angle doesnt do that, it looks uniform at all angles unless you look at it from like and extreme angle to the side.

I have a Dell 2005fpw, its an old widescreen monitor that uses the same LCD as the Apple Cinema Displays, the viewing angle is fantastic and there are no gradient or light/dark issues at all. I believe the 20" WHITE imacs use the same panel, since Ive seen them and they look pretty much the same as my monitor (not as bright though).

Any slight speed improvement in the aluminum imac is trivial compared to the screen quality of the 20" white imac, the white one is a much better machine. Dont take the LCD quality for granted, your eyes will thank you later.

Stridder44
Oct 19, 2007, 04:12 AM
Absolutely true and good advice. (If by "far better" you mean the same grade panels, but ones with far fewer of these issues. I doubt they will upgrade the panels to a much higher grade.)

I will just add the caveat that a Rev A does not guarantee you will have problems. Skipping a Rev A also does not guarantee that you won't have problems. You are just shifting your odds. Is that shift significant? Is it worthwhile versus not having the Mac at all and the troubles associated with waiting for a Rev B? That is for each person to judge.


Bingo.

Digital Skunk
Oct 19, 2007, 06:18 AM
Its impossible not to see the bad viewing angle on these machines, people who dont notice just how bad it is probably have been living with a bad LCD for awhile and think its normal.

I believe the 20" WHITE imacs use the same panel, since Ive seen them and they look pretty much the same as my monitor (not as bright though).

Which 17" iMacs? The G5s or the Intels? I don't know if they used the same panel but there is one sitting right next me every and it looks fine. Maybe the ones your school bought are terrible or the lighting is off in the building... I don't know, but every Alu iMac I have seen has been fine, viewing angle and all. And I have been using ASDs and ACDs for more than four years, no bad displays in my camp.

As for the 20" white iMac and Dell 20" monitor, their screens were much brighter than the 20" ACD. Even the 17" G5 iMac sitting next to me has a brighter screen.

richkent72
Oct 19, 2007, 06:53 AM
I've had my 20" iMac for several weeks now.

(1) No problems with freezing either before or after the revision

(2) Yes, the screen colours do shift obviously if you have a solid colour on your screen. But this isn't what you usually have while you're using your computer. I accept that this screen isn't suitable for pro or keen amateur photographers but for the rest of us it's fine.

(3) There's no guarantee that Revision B won't have a whole new set of issues.

(4) Get Apple Care and if it turns out you've got a dud, send it back.

eianto
Oct 19, 2007, 07:53 AM
Everyone I Purchasde My Imac 24 Inch 2 Days Ago Thi Smachine Works Like A Well Oiled Machine! I Have No Issues With My Screen It Is Gorgeous! Did Ichat With My Neighbor It Was Excellent, This Machine Doesn't Even Make A Sound! Then Just Last Night I Installed Boot Camp 1.4b Installed Win Xp Performance Edition Then Installed The New Ati Drivers, Then I Installed Call Of Duty 4 Demo! Holy S@$%
It Look Like I Was Playing It On The Xbox 360 No F#@&*^ Joke!

So It Is Like They Say It Depends What Day Your (car) Imac Was Made If It Was A Monday It Might Be Good Might Not If It Was A Friday Your Got A Lemon If It Was On Wednesday You Got A Good Machine Production Levels Are Highr Than Dip Thursday!

Hahahahhahahahaha!
:):d;)

AnthonyCM
Oct 19, 2007, 01:30 PM
I'm 99% sure I'm going with a 20" iMac. The question is if I should get this weekend or wait until Leopard is pre-installed. I was thinking that I should get OSX now, spend the $10 on Leopard, and then wait to hear about any bugs before installing it on my system. I know people who still wish they never had installed Vista on their PC, and I don't want the same to happen to me and Leopard.

Any thoughts?

9Charms
Oct 19, 2007, 02:42 PM
Mark me down as a proponent of the "Don't buy a Rev A" concept...

I heard there will be a significant wait until most software is optimized for the new graphics cards in these iMacs. Apparently the Windows world hasn't even got much working well under these Radeon HD video cards.

stainlessliquid
Oct 19, 2007, 05:20 PM
Which 17" iMacs? The G5s or the Intels? I don't know if they used the same panel but there is one sitting right next me every and it looks fine. Maybe the ones your school bought are terrible or the lighting is off in the building... I don't know, but every Alu iMac I have seen has been fine, viewing angle and all. And I have been using ASDs and ACDs for more than four years, no bad displays in my camp.

As for the 20" white iMac and Dell 20" monitor, their screens were much brighter than the 20" ACD. Even the 17" G5 iMac sitting next to me has a brighter screen.

G5, Ive never seen an intel 17" (and vice versa, Ive only seen an intel 20").

Lighting doesnt affect viewing angle, plus the 20" white imac looks great compared to the 20" aluminum one next to it. I dont see why Apple would ship some macs with good displays and others with crappy displays, the only explanation could be that some of the first alum imacs got leftover 20" displays made for the white imacs. The macs at school are only a couple weeks old and every single one of them look exactly the same.

I would take a picture of the viewing angle if I had a camera.
The screen is similair to this quality at very conservative angles:
http://www.studenttabletpc.com/uploaded_files/2006/04/DSC01711small.JPG

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/feedback/20in_iMac_display_issues.html

As you can see the new imacs indeed have a worse LCD than the white imac. But 160 seems too exagerated or 170 was too modest (I think my dell had a 176 or 178 degree angle), there is indeed more than a 10 degree difference between the 2 as far as picture degrading is concerned. What happens is that looking from below causes the light pixels to invert to dark, while looking from the top causes the dark pixels to invert to light, thats why there is a gradient at small angles while things can become illegible at larger angles.

On the other hand it looks like the 24" display is fine (the complaint on that page about the 24" is caused by backlight bleed and is completely unrelated to viewing angles). Otherwise stay away from the 20" ones.

Also I dont believe revision B will be any better. The viewing angle is not a bug, its a result of apple trying to save money by buying cheap 18bit screens, so it was totally intentional.

Digital Skunk
Oct 19, 2007, 05:38 PM
G5, Ive never seen an intel 17" (and vice versa, Ive only seen an intel 20").

Lighting doesnt affect viewing angle, plus the 20" white imac looks great compared to the 20" aluminum one next to it. I dont see why Apple would ship some macs with good displays and others with crappy displays, the only explanation could be that some of the first alum imacs got leftover 20" displays made for the white imacs. The macs at school are only a couple weeks old and every single one of them look exactly the same.

I would take a picture of the viewing angle if I had a camera.
The screen is similair to this quality at very conservative angles:
http://www.studenttabletpc.com/uploaded_files/2006/04/DSC01711small.JPG

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/feedback/20in_iMac_display_issues.html

As you can see the new imacs indeed have a worse LCD than the white imac. But 160 seems too exagerated or 170 was too modest (I think my dell had a 176 or 178 degree angle), there is indeed more than a 10 degree difference between the 2 as far as picture degrading is concerned. What happens is that looking from below causes the light pixels to invert to dark, while looking from the top causes the dark pixels to invert to light, thats why there is a gradient at small angles while things can become illegible at larger angles.

On the other hand it looks like the 24" display is fine (the complaint on that page about the 24" is caused by backlight bleed and is completely unrelated to viewing angles). Otherwise stay away from the 20" ones.

Also I dont believe revision B will be any better. The viewing angle is not a bug, its a result of apple trying to save money by buying cheap 18bit screens, so it was totally intentional.

Okay, I just wanted to let you know that the 20" ACD was actually dimmer than the 17" iMacs (both G5 and Intel). The 20" iMacs may have been better than them as well, the 20" ACD is wonderful but its a lot dimmer than the iMac displays.

Honestly, I can't say why Apple decided to change the already great display in the iMacs, but I can't say that I have seen terrible displays in the iMacs. I have one on order and it should be in next week, but before I did order it, I viewed them in the Apple Stores in Towson Maryland and King of Prussia, Pennsylvania. I agree that there may be a problem, but I don't think it's as big as people make it seam. It reminds me of the Mac Book Pro display issues, and many of the people that have the SR books don't have any problem at all.

craig1410
Oct 19, 2007, 06:07 PM
Mark me down as a proponent of the "Don't buy a Rev A" concept...

I heard there will be a significant wait until most software is optimized for the new graphics cards in these iMacs. Apparently the Windows world hasn't even got much working well under these Radeon HD video cards.

I think you will find that Apple has considerably more influence on ATI given that the entire range of iMac's use the Radeon cards. I expect that Apple will put a lot of pressure on ATI to get their house in order and make these cards work as billed. I'm at 4.5 days uptime just now and the last time I had a freeze I had about 16 days uptime so the freezing issue isn't really a big concern for me at least. Not acceptable but no need for panic just yet.

Remember, Apple are now the same size as IBM and almost as big as Intel so don't underestimate their power to get things sorted with sub-contractors...

Cheers,
Craig.

Stridder44
Oct 19, 2007, 09:56 PM
I think you will find that Apple has considerably more influence on ATI given that the entire range of iMac's use the Radeon cards. I expect that Apple will put a lot of pressure on ATI to get their house in order and make these cards work as billed. I'm at 4.5 days uptime just now and the last time I had a freeze I had about 16 days uptime so the freezing issue isn't really a big concern for me at least. Not acceptable but no need for panic just yet.

Remember, Apple are now the same size as IBM and almost as big as Intel so don't underestimate their power to get things sorted with sub-contractors...

Cheers,
Craig.


I hope you're right. My friend built his PC about 5 months ago and got an ATI Radeon x1950 Pro. That thing was the biggest piece of crap. And I'm almost sure it wasn't even the hardwares' fault either, the drivers for the card sucked. Overheating issues, BSODs (ati memory dump), and other minor glitches. Mind you these problems didn't even start occur until after a couple of months.


He since then got a GForce 8800 GTS (320mb). The difference in drivers alone was worth the upgrade. I want to like ATI but I'd just wish they'd get their act together already and make some solid drivers for their products.

TheVandit
Oct 20, 2007, 01:23 PM
basically who on earth gets a one colour full screen image and stares at it looking for faults??

killerrobot
Oct 20, 2007, 01:43 PM
Just bought a new 20" imac on Oct. 9. No problems with it at all other than it has two dead pixels which you can barely notice because the screen looks great.

Oh, did I mention I did the 10.5 up-to-date thing for $10.77 with taxes. Just can´t beat that I get a licensed copy of tiger and leopard for $10.77 more.

AnthonyCM
Oct 20, 2007, 02:59 PM
That's what I'm thinking. Should I go ahead and get an iMac now with Tiger and a $10 Leopard voucher, or should I wait a couple of weeks to receive Leopard pre-installed?

ucfgrad93
Oct 20, 2007, 03:07 PM
I've had a 20" iMac for two months now. I use it every day. I have NEVER had any problem whatever! It's a great computer and I love the glossy screen. The colors are very bright and I have had no problems with reflections. The new keyboard took me about two minutes to get used to...

Same here, no problems at all. I love mine. Go for it you won't regret it.

Digital Skunk
Oct 20, 2007, 03:54 PM
That's what I'm thinking. Should I go ahead and get an iMac now with Tiger and a $10 Leopard voucher, or should I wait a couple of weeks to receive Leopard pre-installed?

I say wait until it comes out. There is no point in spending $10 when you could wait a solid week and not pay $10 and have to do a reinstall of your OS. It's not that big of a deal to install Mac OS X, but neither is waiting a week for your ultimate purchase.

I hope you're right. My friend built his PC about 5 months ago and got an ATI Radeon x1950 Pro. That thing was the biggest piece of crap. And I'm almost sure it wasn't even the hardwares' fault either, the drivers for the card sucked. Overheating issues, BSODs (ati memory dump), and other minor glitches. Mind you these problems didn't even start occur until after a couple of months.


He since then got a GForce 8800 GTS (320mb). The difference in drivers alone was worth the upgrade. I want to like ATI but I'd just wish they'd get their act together already and make some solid drivers for their products.

I am no graphics freak but if I had a choice I'd go nVidia as well, I just think they make a solid product that just about everyone stands behind. ATI has been the "other" company in my mind, making a good product as well, but not on par with nVidia. I would upgrade my old nVidia to an ATI if my budget restricts me but if I had the cash for an nVidia it'd be in my case in no time flat.

basically who on earth gets a one colour full screen image and stares at it looking for faults??

People who like nothin else but to look for faults in every product they buy so they can complain about it and never actually use the device for the purpose it was intended for.

9Charms
Oct 22, 2007, 12:55 AM
basically who on earth gets a one colour full screen image and stares at it looking for faults??

Actually graphics artists do. Especially those who do colour correction and have to wonder why their image looks different in one part of the screen compared to another part.

The previous gen MacBook Pro had an inconsistent screen, which is why had to get rid of mine. (This gen's LED LCD looks better, but I'm now on a G5 now, waiting for a cheap Mac tower to come out).

craig1410
Oct 22, 2007, 03:07 AM
Actually graphics artists do. Especially those who do colour correction and have to wonder why their image looks different in one part of the screen compared to another part.

The previous gen MacBook Pro had an inconsistent screen, which is why had to get rid of mine. (This gen's LED LCD looks better, but I'm now on a G5 now, waiting for a cheap Mac tower to come out).

Surely if you are a "professional" then you should be using a Mac Pro with some sort of professional standard monitor with guaranteed colour and brightness performance characteristics? In the photography world I wouldn't expect a professional photographer to just go down to Argos/Walmart and buy any old camera - they would buy the best that they can afford. If they can only afford a consumer camera then maybe they are not a "professional" after all !!

That said, I would expect a true professional to work with the tools they can afford and use their skills to produce results better than the sum of the parts rather than complaining about some relatively minor technicality!

Cheers,
Craig.

9Charms
Oct 24, 2007, 02:15 AM
Surely if you are a "professional" then you should be using a Mac Pro with some sort of professional standard monitor with guaranteed colour and brightness performance characteristics? In the photography world I wouldn't expect a professional photographer to just go down to Argos/Walmart and buy any old camera - they would buy the best that they can afford. If they can only afford a consumer camera then maybe they are not a "professional" after all !!

That said, I would expect a true professional to work with the tools they can afford and use their skills to produce results better than the sum of the parts rather than complaining about some relatively minor technicality!

Cheers,
Craig.

I never actually said "professional" because many of these people are hobbyists, free-lancers, "do stuff for friends", casual dabblers, and it's not their full time job thus they can't justify the cost of a "professional" grade machine. Basically they can't afford a Mac Pro (nevermind that it's over-priced). And being true Mac people, they don't want to buy a windows machine. If Apple ever offered a "real" desktop in the $1200 to $1500 range, that is what this particular segment needs.

However, I have to admit, for most people, the screen is fine. They only do iPhoto. It's good enough. But an inconsistent screen is not a "minor techicality." For the price of these computers, we should expect better products. Have you seen what $1800 buys in the Windows world?

Anyways, we're probably getting off topic. I would chalk up the "screen-issue" to it being a Rev A product.

craig1410
Oct 24, 2007, 03:53 AM
I never actually said "professional" because many of these people are hobbyists, free-lancers, "do stuff for friends", casual dabblers, and it's not their full time job thus they can't justify the cost of a "professional" grade machine. Basically they can't afford a Mac Pro (nevermind that it's over-priced). And being true Mac people, they don't want to buy a windows machine. If Apple ever offered a "real" desktop in the $1200 to $1500 range, that is what this particular segment needs.

However, I have to admit, for most people, the screen is fine. They only do iPhoto. It's good enough. But an inconsistent screen is not a "minor techicality." For the price of these computers, we should expect better products. Have you seen what $1800 buys in the Windows world?

Anyways, we're probably getting off topic. I would chalk up the "screen-issue" to it being a Rev A product.

For the type of person you are referring to then I would agree that the iMac screen is more than good enough and if better performance is required then they should buy a known good external monitor. A cheaper way to do this would be to buy a MacBook or Mac Mini with an external monitor.

The level of variation I have seen reported on this forum for the 24" screen is well within what I would term "minor" but of course that is only my opinion. I appreciate there will be some bad screens out there which are worse than this but I believe they are in the minority. My own screen has no such problems and I don't see the point in taking pictures with a camera as this is unlikely to capture exactly what the eye sees.

Finally, I doubt that these are "Rev A" issues as the particular LCD used in the 24" iMac is reportedly used in a high end NEC LCD monitor and has been around for a while already.

Cheers,
Craig.

GSMiller
Oct 24, 2007, 06:15 AM
With leopard coming out I feel like it is finally time to get my first Mac Desktop.

Question is... is it the right time to do it? I bought my Mac Laptop (first mac ever) with little knowledge of the MacBook world... oh was I in for an unpleasant surprise!

Random Shut Downs, Discolouration.. etc.

All the marketing about the quality and reliability of Apple pretty much went out the window for me at that point.... BUT, I stuck with Apple and I must say I fell in love for the quality of the software (but not necessarily the quality of hardware)

So how is iMac? Does it come packaged with a couple of common blunders that will keep me calling AppleCare twice a week OR (unlike early macbooks) is it actually designed well?

Should I wait a year before they get this product right, or is it safe to jump in this time?

Thanks,

~ One.Bad.:apple:

While I can't comment on the new iMac's I must say don't let a few peoples comments stop you from getting a new iMac. If 5 people out of 1,000,000 people complained about an issue, it would seem as though about 80% of them had the problem. If there really is an issue, it can most likely be fixed with a software update by Apple. Otherwise, nothing a little AppleCare can't take care of.

czachorski
Oct 24, 2007, 06:21 PM
Mark me down as a proponent of the "Don't buy a Rev A" concept...

I heard there will be a significant wait until most software is optimized for the new graphics cards in these iMacs. Apparently the Windows world hasn't even got much working well under these Radeon HD video cards.

During that significant wait, I am editing HD video as we speak on my new 24". I don't really know what more I could expect from a $2500 computer - beautiful, perfect screen, smokin fast computer, immune from the freezing issues (so far). I got what I paid for, and most probably do.

weslobombs
Oct 24, 2007, 07:46 PM
all of you naysayer lcd snobs need to ****.

the bottom line:

the freezing problems affected a SMALL number of people, and is not nonexistant.

the glossy screen is NOT bad for color intensive tasks!! the colors are more saturated! they look way better than my friends 20 inch white imac (compared to my friends 24 inch aluminum)

the viewing angle is NOT ANY WORSE!!! whoever says the new screens are worse is quite frankly an idiot/hasn't seen them side by side like i have.

im getting a 24 inch friday so that leopard comes with it. btw, its not preinstalled, they swap out the tiger disc and make you install it.

besides, getting an old mac at this point would mean sacrificing 1. better specs 2. a glossy screen (they ARE BETTER PEOPLE! trust apple, try using one, they are amazing and i wouldnt go back) 3. the joy of walking into the apple store and getting a new mac in its sweet new packaging!

be smart. aluminum is the way to go.

plus they are prettier.

sincerely,
a mac geek:apple:

Digital Skunk
Oct 24, 2007, 08:55 PM
all of you naysayer lcd snobs need to ****.

the bottom line:

the freezing problems affected a SMALL number of people, and is not nonexistant.

the glossy screen is NOT bad for color intensive tasks!! the colors are more saturated! they look way better than my friends 20 inch white imac (compared to my friends 24 inch aluminum)

the viewing angle is NOT ANY WORSE!!! whoever says the new screens are worse is quite frankly an idiot/hasn't seen them side by side like i have.

im getting a 24 inch friday so that leopard comes with it. btw, its not preinstalled, they swap out the tiger disc and make you install it.

besides, getting an old mac at this point would mean sacrificing 1. better specs 2. a glossy screen (they ARE BETTER PEOPLE! trust apple, try using one, they are amazing and i wouldnt go back) 3. the joy of walking into the apple store and getting a new mac in its sweet new packaging!

be smart. aluminum is the way to go.

plus they are prettier.

sincerely,
a mac geek:apple:

Yeah... what this guy said!

Seriously though, as has happened in many other threads on this topic or about the MacBook Pro yellowing issue, the complainers leave the rest hanging. They have moved on and realized that they were very mistaken or that they had no argument to begin with. That or they have taken off their piss colored glasses.

Once you show them proof that not every machine has their problem, they vanish like a fart in the wind. Nothing left to see hear.

RumMunkey
Oct 25, 2007, 12:05 PM
Let me introduce you to a concept, I like to call it Rev. A. The new iMacs are a Rev. A item. Rev. A's are pretty much beta testers, although they might not know it. Some people think this idea is B.S. but I can't tell you how many times I've seen it proven to be true. It's always a bad idea to get the first of anything new when it comes to technology. It's even true with cars. I'm just telling you from experience, and casting the Apple "fanboy-ism" aside.

Most of the "bugs" and issues, from what I've read have been ironed out at this point with the new iMacs (except that crappy graphics card and its drivers...it's been months and people are still waiting on fixes), so if you can't hold on you should be fine with buying now (well...at least wait till october 26th when Leopard comes out). However, if it were my money, I'd wait for the Rev. B iMacs.

I'll bet you money the Rev. B iMacs have far better screens (along with all the other minor upgrades that come with each Rev.).

Talk down at people much?

weslobombs
Oct 25, 2007, 04:13 PM
Yeah... what this guy said!

Seriously though, as has happened in many other threads on this topic or about the MacBook Pro yellowing issue, the complainers leave the rest hanging. They have moved on and realized that they were very mistaken or that they had no argument to begin with. That or they have taken off their piss colored glasses.

Once you show them proof that not every machine has their problem, they vanish like a fart in the wind. Nothing left to see hear.


thank you, digital Skunk.

and did i mention that i do have a valuable opinion based on the fact that i go to CCS for Graphic Design and Animation/Digital media? i've spent ALOT of time with apple products, especially monitors. Everywhere you turn at that school, there is a mac of some sort.

the least that can be said is that i feel sorry for the people who have to work in the very small number of PC labs at the school, because the standard dell lcd monitors they use are DISGUSTING!!!

Whoshnot
Oct 25, 2007, 05:06 PM
Let me introduce you to a concept, I like to call it Rev. A. The new iMacs are a Rev. A item. Rev. A's are pretty much beta testers, although they might not know it. Some people think this idea is B.S. but I can't tell you how many times I've seen it proven to be true. It's always a bad idea to get the first of anything new when it comes to technology. It's even true with cars. I'm just telling you from experience, and casting the Apple "fanboy-ism" aside.

Most of the "bugs" and issues, from what I've read have been ironed out at this point with the new iMacs (except that crappy graphics card and its drivers...it's been months and people are still waiting on fixes), so if you can't hold on you should be fine with buying now (well...at least wait till october 26th when Leopard comes out). However, if it were my money, I'd wait for the Rev. B iMacs.
Still... waiting for Rev. B iMacs is not a garantue that you won't get any problems later. I bought an iMac G5 rev. B two years ago but it died last month due to a logic board failure, and since replacement of the logic board would have cost over $800 I decided to buy a new one.
In fact I would have been in a lot better position if I had bought an iMac G5 rev. A, since logic board failures are covered by an extension repair program so then the logic board would have been replaced for free! But unfortunately this repair program is only for rev. A owners (although my Mac had the exact same symptons), so I was ... ****ed. Thanks Apple :mad:

I like my new iMac 20" though. Yes, it has one dead pixel but you can barely notice it, and sometimes you can indeed see a gradient of colours, but apart from that it is probably the best display I ever had. Very bright (sometimes I even have to lower the brightness because it hurts my eyes), a lot of contrast... Overall I'm very satisfied with it.

Queso
Oct 25, 2007, 05:13 PM
I like my new iMac 20" though. Yes, it has one dead pixel but you can barely notice it, and sometimes you can indeed see a gradient of colours, but apart from that it is probably the best display I ever had. Very bright (sometimes I even have to lower the brightness because it hurts my eyes), a lot of contrast... Overall I'm very satisfied with it.
I know what you mean about the brightness. Mine never gets set above three notches unless I'm watching EyeTV. Any more than that and it actually gets painful after a few minutes :)

LethalGuitarist
Aug 3, 2008, 08:34 PM
I know what you mean about the brightness. Mine never gets set above three notches unless I'm watching EyeTV. Any more than that and it actually gets painful after a few minutes :)

The sceens are very bright.:apple:

LethalGuitarist
Aug 3, 2008, 08:36 PM
I like my new iMac 20" though. Yes, it has one dead pixel but you can barely notice it, and sometimes you can indeed see a gradient of colours, but apart from that it is probably the best display I ever had. Very bright (sometimes I even have to lower the brightness because it hurts my eyes), a lot of contrast... Overall I'm very satisfied with it.[/QUOTE]

Is it under warranty? I had my screen replaced in my older iMac for a dead pixel. It was under warranty.

kabunaru
Aug 3, 2008, 08:53 PM
So, you guys think that there's going to be an iMac update later this year? :confused:

The Hammer
Aug 3, 2008, 11:05 PM
So, you guys think that there's going to be an iMac update later this year? :confused:Either October of this year or January 2009 is my guess.

DesignerOnMac
Aug 3, 2008, 11:24 PM
If you buy an iMac, you should look into the older white models first. The ones right before Apple changed over to the aluminum enclosures.

The new aluminum iMacs have had some reported freezing problems, but the two biggest concerns for me as a buyer are the glossy screen and the fact that these glossy screens aren't really up to the level of the last gen screens.

I have yet to see a new iMac without uneven back lighting/gradient problems. If you go to an Apple store and set the screen to a solid color, you should be able to see what I'm talking about. Also, the glossy screens aren't great for color sensitive work or bad/sensitive eyes.

So yeah, I'd check them out before you buy especially if you were dissatisfied in the build quality of your Macbook.

1. I have the first version of the Alum imac that came out last october.
2. No issues with any freezing problems.
3. No issues with any gradients on the screen.
4. Glossy screen is NO issue. Remember CRTs? They were glossy, but never heard anyone bitch about them!?!?!?
5. I do color work in photoshop adjusting color in pictures etc., and in my opinion this is a 'made up' excuse.

My 5 cents on this continued fallacies about the iMac!

WillJS
Aug 3, 2008, 11:33 PM
Holy thread resurrection! :eek:

It's ok though, the OP was made on my birthday. :D

queshy
Aug 4, 2008, 11:11 AM
The design of the new iMac is slightly sleeker/cooler than the old one, though I do prefer the classic white look. Also, I prefer the matte screen. We own both versions, and although the colors on the glossy screen definitely pop more than those on the matte screen, it's more soothing working on the matte screen for longer periods of time. Definitely easier on the eyes and more pleasant to look at.

In terms of speed, can't tell the difference between the 2.8 C2D and my white 2.16 GHz C2D. Both have 2 GB ram.

Although I will eventually upgrade to the "next" iMac whenever that may be (and whenever snow leopard comes out), I will only grudgingly accept the glossy screens.

pensfan
Aug 4, 2008, 11:42 AM
After all, even the cheapest iMac is probably twice as complex as a Saturn V moon rocket!
You did NOT just make that statement.