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MACDRIVE
Oct 20, 2007, 04:20 AM
The Rolling Stone (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/16971409/cheney_targets_iran)

Cheney Targets Iran
The vice president is angling behind the scenes for another war in the Middle East

Robert DreyfussPosted Oct 18, 2007 12:02 PM

Sometime early next year, Dick Cheney is planning to start his third war in the Middle East. According to a wide range of Washington insiders — from Cheney sympathizers to anti-war activists — the vice president is angling behind the scenes for yet another unilateral military action, this time aimed at toppling the clerical regime in Iran. "It's an open secret," one leading analyst of Iranian relations tells Rolling Stone. Even though America remains bogged down in twin conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, the insiders add, Cheney still has the clout to get President Bush to give the order — despite strong opposition from the State Department and the Pentagon, both of which believe that attacking Iran could have catastrophic consequences for the United States.
"For Bush, the Middle East is everything," says Larry Korb, a former defense official in the Reagan administration. "Cheney reinforces the idea that Bush's legacy will be what happens there. And Cheney can tip the balance."

In May, the vice president made the threat of war explicit when he boarded the aircraft carrier U.S.S. John C. Stennis in the Persian Gulf — from which vast firepower could be unleashed against Iran. "With two carrier strike groups in the Gulf, we're sending clear messages to friends and adversaries alike," Cheney declared. "We'll keep the sea lanes open. We'll stand with others to prevent Iran from gaining nuclear weapons and dominating this region." The speech, described as "saber-rattling" by one State Department official, was not circulated broadly to other officials in advance. Cheney "still kind of runs by his own rules," according to an American diplomat.

Some observers say that Cheney is losing the policy fight on Iran. Acting against the vice president's advice, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is engaging in talks with Iran in search of a negotiated end to its nuclear program. In March, she gained a key ally when Adm. William "Fox" Fallon, a diplomacy-minded officer, was named to head the U.S. Central Command, the war-fighting body with responsibility for the Persian Gulf. Dismissing talk of an attack on Iran as "unhelpful" and "distracting," Fallon declared that "the idea that we have yet another conflict in this region strikes me as not where we want to go." Other high-level military brass also oppose the idea of war with Iran: According to Chas Freeman, who served as ambassador to Saudi Arabia under George H.W. Bush, opposition runs so strong at the Joint Chiefs of Staff that several top generals and admirals might resign if Bush orders an attack on Iran.

Behind the scenes, however, Cheney has been working to short-circuit opposition to war. Last December, the vice president huddled with staff from the American Enterprise Institute, now home to several former Bush administration hawks, including former deputy defense secretary Paul Wolfowitz and ex-United Nations ambassador John Bolton. Together, Cheney and AEI sold the president on backing the "surge" in Iraq — with a special twist. Announcing the addition of 21,500 U.S. troops in January, Bush went out of his way to blame Iran for the violence in Iraq. Cheney himself appeared on Fox News to sound the alarm, warning of the possibility of "a nuclear-armed Iran, astride the world's supply of oil" and "prepared to use terrorist organizations and/or their nuclear weapons to threaten their neighbors and others around the world."

Such bellicose language — coupled with the halfhearted negotiations being pursued by Rice — effectively guarantees that diplomacy won't work. "The so-called diplomacy that is being engaged in now is very inadequate," says Trita Parsi, president of the National Iranian American Council and author of Treacherous Alliance: The Secret Dealings of Israel, Iran and the U.S. "The United States is pursuing policies that make it impossible to succeed."

And that, say Washington insiders, is precisely what Cheney is counting on. It is the same pattern the vice president used in pursuing a war with Iraq: ignore objections from the State Department and the military, engage in token talks and then mobilize American troops after declaring the U.N.'s efforts pointless. This summer, as other aides counseled restraint, Cheney reportedly demanded that the United States conduct air strikes against purported bases in Iran used by Iranian-allied insurgents in Iraq. He also dispatched David Wurmser, then his top Middle East adviser, to begin circulating ideas in Washington about how to bring about a military confrontation with Iran. According to those familiar with the move, Wurmser has made it clear that Cheney disagrees with the president's decision to use diplomacy to dissuade Iran from pursuing nuclear weapons.

Another neoconservative on Cheney's staff who has been pushing for war with Iran is John Hannah, his adviser for national-security issues. "The vice president's office has been the focal point for the view that puts the focus on hard power, on military power, as a way of achieving goals," says Dennis Ross, a veteran U.S. diplomat who has been close to Hannah for years. "I think it's going to come to a head sometime in 2008."

Attacking Iran would likely involve at least 1,500 separate bombing raids over many days or weeks, striking not only Iran's several dozen nuclear research and industrial sites but also its military facilities. "You're not talking about a surgical strike," according to Wayne White, a former top intelligence official who has seen classified plans for what an attack on Iran might look like. "You're talking about a war against Iran. The Iranians will do everything in their power to retaliate."

That's what worries military brass, who fear that Iran would hit back against U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan and activate terrorist allies in the Middle East, further destabilizing a region already struggling with two major wars. Such scenarios have apparently been war-gamed at the Pentagon, with sobering results.

Some analysts argue that politics will restrain Bush and Cheney, since the country is in an anti-war mood and that any escalation of the conflict in the Middle East could cost Republicans dearly at the polls next November. Among conservatives in Washington the question of the day is: Are the president and vice president willing to sacrifice the future of the Republican Party on the altar of the failed war in Iraq and a new war in Iran?

According to most analysts, the answer is yes. "We see a stubbornness in the president that is virtually unique," says Doug Bandow, a foreign-policy expert and former Reagan aide. "What does he care about the party's future? He parachuted into politics on his father's coattails. He's never been much of a party guy, and I think he could care less. Cheney is more of a Republican, but he's at the end of his career. He just might be ready to bring the whole house down on top of them if that's what it takes."




What I'm wondering is: how well will Hillary protect us from Iran's wrath once Cheney and Bush are gone? :confused:



Iscariot
Oct 20, 2007, 04:49 AM
Cheney Targets Iran

The Iranians know he is coming. But now they must ask: which form of attack should they fear?

http://www.hallert.net/images/12cheney4xx.jpg

MACDRIVE
Oct 20, 2007, 05:41 AM
I'm thinking the Iranians are far more dangerous than al-Qaeda. They have way more money than al-Qaeda and all kinds of technical expertise. They could find a way to get inside our borders. Maybe they're already here. :eek:

Iscariot
Oct 20, 2007, 05:45 AM
I'm thinking the Iranians are far more dangerous than al-Qaeda. They have way more money than al-Qaeda and all kinds of technical expertise. They could find a way to get inside our borders. Maybe they're already here. :eek:

It's a good thing Dick Cheney stands between them and you, then. That guy is like Rambo. Rambey...Chenbo... Ricko...?

Iscariot
Oct 20, 2007, 06:17 AM
I once made a Jack-o-lantern with an image of Cheney on it. When I woke up the day after Hallowe'en, Iran was not in my front yard.

Ugg
Oct 20, 2007, 12:06 PM
I'm thinking the Iranians are far more dangerous than al-Qaeda. They have way more money than al-Qaeda and all kinds of technical expertise. They could find a way to get inside our borders. Maybe they're already here. :eek:

Paranoia seems to have taken over from fear.

I'm in no way fond of Iran but the biggest threat to world peace and American security is cheney and his cabal of chickenhawks.

Naimfan
Oct 20, 2007, 01:15 PM
Paranoia seems to have taken over from fear.

I'm in no way fond of Iran but the biggest threat to world peace and America is cheney and his cabal of chickenhawks.

There. Fixed that for you! :)

SMM
Oct 20, 2007, 03:36 PM
I'm thinking the Iranians are far more dangerous than al-Qaeda. They have way more money than al-Qaeda and all kinds of technical expertise. They could find a way to get inside our borders. Maybe they're already here. :eek:

So, what are you suggesting?

yg17
Oct 20, 2007, 03:44 PM
I'm thinking the Iranians are far more dangerous than al-Qaeda. They have way more money than al-Qaeda and all kinds of technical expertise. They could find a way to get inside our borders. Maybe they're already here. :eek:

Whats with your paranoia regarding Iran? They're not going to attack us. End of story.

Macky-Mac
Oct 20, 2007, 04:26 PM
.... Maybe they're already here. :eek:

my neighborhood in los angeles swarms with Iranians!! They're good people

IJ Reilly
Oct 20, 2007, 05:17 PM
This article is pretty vague on the specifics, but I think the real message here is that a "good cop/bad cop" technique is being employed against Iran. The problem is, even as convincing a bad cop as Cheney probably won't persuade many in the Iranian power structure that the US could seriously afford a real war against Iran, with all the mayhem it would unleash in the Middle East and ultimately world-wide.

Swarmlord
Oct 20, 2007, 05:33 PM
Whats with your paranoia regarding Iran? They're not going to attack us. End of story.

I guess threatening one of our biggest allies and further destabilizing the Middle East isn't enough, eh?

pseudobrit
Oct 20, 2007, 05:47 PM
I guess threatening one of our biggest allies and further destabilizing the Middle East isn't enough, eh?

That's funny seeing as you're busy defending an administration that has alienated our allies and destablilized the Middle East quite a bit on its own.

pdham
Oct 20, 2007, 05:49 PM
I guess threatening one of our biggest allies and further destabilizing the Middle East isn't enough, eh?

I am pretty sure the debacle that is Iraq has done far more destabilizing of the Middle East... so maybe we are the threat to their security. Nah that can't be it; it must be the brown people with hard to pronounce last names :rolleyes:

Swarmlord
Oct 20, 2007, 05:52 PM
That's funny seeing as you're busy defending an administration that has alienated our allies and destablilized the Middle East quite a bit on its own.

The Israelis still like us. :)

pseudobrit
Oct 20, 2007, 05:55 PM
The Israelis still like us. :)

How many troops did they send to Iraq to assist us?

Swarmlord
Oct 20, 2007, 05:56 PM
How many troops did they send to Iraq to assist us?

It's always body count with you guys isn't it?

pseudobrit
Oct 20, 2007, 06:00 PM
It's always body count with you guys isn't it?

Who's "you guys" and why didn't you answer the question?

yg17
Oct 20, 2007, 06:32 PM
The Israelis still like us. :)

So that's one tiny little country in the middle east that likes us. Whoop dee doo :rolleyes:

Thomas Veil
Oct 20, 2007, 07:07 PM
...threatening one of our biggest allies ...Iran is threatening Canada?? ;)

skunk
Oct 20, 2007, 07:26 PM
This article is pretty vague on the specifics, but I think the real message here is that a "good cop/bad cop" technique is being employed against Iran.I think the real message is that your fool of a President is subverting your Constitution by delegating far too much responsibility for foreign affairs to your lunatic of a Vice President.

Swarmlord
Oct 20, 2007, 09:03 PM
Who's "you guys" and why didn't you answer the question?

Do I really need to explain why the number is likely zero? Kind of falls into the same category as inflaming the Turks over a 100 year old issue.

I guess if they sent 1,000 Hasidic jews into Muslim Iraq that would have gone over real well with everyone.

Think, man. Think.

IJ Reilly
Oct 20, 2007, 11:50 PM
I think the real message is that your fool of a President is subverting your Constitution by delegating far too much responsibility for foreign affairs to your lunatic of a Vice President.

Actually, the Constitution doesn't address how much responsibility a president can delegate to a vice president.

MACDRIVE
Oct 21, 2007, 03:41 AM
General Petraeus says that Iran is directly responsible for killing American soldiers by providing shipments of Explosive Formed Penetrators to the insurgents. I've never believed everything this administration has said, but I tend to listen carefully to the Generals.

I can understand the Iraqis being mad at us, but I still haven't figured out why Iran is fighting us in Iraq; why don't they just mind their own business? What did we ever do to them? :confused:

j26
Oct 21, 2007, 04:05 AM
General Petraeus says that Iran is directly responsible for killing American soldiers by providing shipments of Explosive Formed Penetrators to the insurgents. I've never believed everything this administration has said, but I tend to listen carefully to the Generals.

I can understand the Iraqis being mad at us, but I still haven't figured out why Iran is fighting us in Iraq; why don't they just mind their own business? What did we ever do to them? :confused:

Umm... The US support Iraq in a war against them that cost about a million lives?
The US tells them they're next to be attacked? (They are part of the 'Axis of Evil' after all)
The US is threatening them over their nuclear programme?

Plus it is their business. Iraq is a next door neighbour. The US is p***ing in their patch - war has a destabilising effect even on non-participant neighbours.

The real question is what I still can't figure out is why the US is fighting in Iraq, why don't they just mind their own business?


Edit: The US is directly responsible for the death of British soldiers in Northern Ireland through donations of money and arms by US citizens to the IRA, which the US government never tried to clamp down on. Should Britain bomb Florida in revenge for this?

it5five
Oct 21, 2007, 04:34 AM
General Petraeus says that Iran is directly responsible for killing American soldiers by providing shipments of Explosive Formed Penetrators to the insurgents. I've never believed everything this administration has said, but I tend to listen carefully to the Generals.

I can understand the Iraqis being mad at us, but I still haven't figured out why Iran is fighting us in Iraq; why don't they just mind their own business? What did we ever do to them? :confused:

You certainly shouldn't be listening to Petraeus. He was a yes-man long before he was put in charge. He even wrote a pro-Bush/war op-ed before the 2004 elections. He's tied in with the whole administration.

MACDRIVE
Oct 21, 2007, 05:07 AM
What gets me is that if it wasn't for the oil in the Middle East, the whole entire place would be irrelevant to us; it would be as important to us as Africa is.

If Cheney attacks Iran, the oil companies will have a nice excuse to raise the fuel prices. :cool:

skunk
Oct 21, 2007, 07:16 AM
What gets me is that if it wasn't for the oil in the Middle East, the whole entire place would be irrelevant to us; it would be as important to us as Africa is.You mean it would just be an endless source of cheap raw materials acquired at the cost of continuing instability?

MACDRIVE
Oct 21, 2007, 08:16 AM
You mean it would just be an endless source of cheap raw materials acquired at the cost of continuing instability?

I'm not so sure what you mean by that skunk; does the U.S. import anything from Africa? :confused:

Blue Velvet
Oct 21, 2007, 08:21 AM
...does the U.S. import anything from Africa? :confused:

Billions of dollars worth (http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:ha_V32UioSwJ:hotdocs.usitc.gov/pub3741/Table1-3.pdf+us+imports+africa+dollars&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&lr=lang_en)

In 2003:
Chemicals and related products 2.3%
Other 2.7%
Agricultural products 4.5%
Textiles and apparel 6.1%
Energy-related products 69.4% (probably mostly Nigerian oil)
Minerals and metals 11.8%
Transportation equipment 3.2%

skunk
Oct 21, 2007, 09:22 AM
I'm not so sure what you mean by that skunk; does the U.S. import anything from Africa? :confused:It isn't only the ex-colonial powers who like to keep the entire continent destabilised so that they can steal each country's resources by bribing the warlords and politicians, you know. It's the same pattern as in South America and Asia. One one side they are paying huge sums to the colonels and the tyrants and despots to spirit away their peoples' resources without giving anything back to the people, on the other side they are wringing their hands and tut-tutting about how "inferior", "unintelligent" and "incapable" those nations/races are (by comparison with the Western White Man, of course) and what a shame it is they just don't seem to be able to get it together to govern themselves properly, all the while conveniently forgetting the other Grade A clusterf*ck they have caused, which is Iraq.

solvs
Oct 21, 2007, 11:01 AM
Foreign fighters in Iraq are in the single digit percentages.

I don't know if Iran is a threat. It's hard to trust this administration's sabre rattling after they've cried wolf so many times. The reasons given are the same as with Iraq. Still rings hollow, as there are other countries doing the same things, if not worse, and we do nothing. NK, Darfur, Myanmar. The list goes on. I tend to think Iran could be a threat though actually. Problem being they seem to be doing it reactively. I kinda think if they do try to pull anything, it would be in retaliation or self defense. Anything proactive and they'd be wiped out. But they know we're in a lousy position because of our missteps in Iraq.

Sadly, Iran probably would have benefited most from a stabilized Saddamless Iraq, and had we done things better, they might have been our ally.

johnee
Oct 21, 2007, 11:28 AM
So that's one tiny little country in the middle east that likes us. Whoop dee doo :rolleyes:

You forget they DO have nuclear weapons. Israel (very few people know this) is the only country allowed to have it's people employed by U.S. contracted weapons companies

What gets me is that if it wasn't for the oil in the Middle East, the whole entire place would be irrelevant to us; it would be as important to us as Africa is.


That's changing. New policies are being drafted as contingencies in case the middle east thing works against us wrt/ oil.


On a side note, I think a major scenario only being considered by the military as this point might play out. If the U.S does carry out military action against Iran, Israel will be the target, not the U.S. The plan of the attackers is to overwhelm Israel to the point that it unleashes nuclear weapons and starts world war 3.

skunk
Oct 21, 2007, 11:38 AM
Wet dreams aren't what they used to be.

SMM
Oct 22, 2007, 03:46 AM
General Petraeus says that Iran is directly responsible for killing American soldiers by providing shipments of Explosive Formed Penetrators to the insurgents. I've never believed everything this administration has said, but I tend to listen carefully to the Generals.

I can understand the Iraqis being mad at us, but I still haven't figured out why Iran is fighting us in Iraq; why don't they just mind their own business? What did we ever do to them? :confused:

During Vietnam, 'Uncle Ho' was getting weapons from Russia and China. They were also getting aid from former members of the FFL and the Indian Black Market. If anyone is surprised that the Iraqis are getting direct military aid from other Islamic groups, they do not have a clue.

Most of those who opposed the war (before it started) understood, realized this exact thing was going to happen. Of course it would spread peripherally. Eventually it would become an internal struggle for the Iraqi people to rid themselves of a foreign invader (just as we would do). It would also escalate to a regional war for the Muslim people to extricate themselves from neo-colonialism. It would also become a religious war, for the Islamic faithful to stand tall, and united, against the western heathens. Finally, it would become the futile grounds for recruiting new members into the ranks of the Islamic Jihad (AQ).

This was so easy to see coming.