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Macmaniac
Apr 11, 2002, 10:50 AM
I think we should put some idea together on how to convert people. Kinda like a guide to converting people to macs, and how to show how windows is bad. So start posting ideas!
example: put a mac and PC next to each other and install the OS and show how the mac OS is so much better!

Mr. Anderson
Apr 11, 2002, 10:53 AM
One of the problems with that is getting people to see the PC and Mac next to each other. I like the idea of being 'Apple Missionaries', but we need to come up with something better than just show two machines.

And it also takes a lot of time. You're talking about making some change their lifestyle, spend money, etc. Its not going to be easy.

britboy
Apr 11, 2002, 11:07 AM
For most people, it should suffice to prove that you *can* actually get things done on a mac. One of my flatmates has been using windows since Win3.1, and never tried macs because he thought you couldn't do as much on them as he could with his computer. Since i've been using my tibook, with more success than he's been having on his win2000 machine, his view's changed dramatically. When i told him is was 'just' a 500Mhz processor, he wouldn't believe me 'till i showed him the system profiler! His words: "this is the first time i've compared a laptop to my desktop in terms of perfomance".

I guess what i'm getting at is that you don't need to do anything exceptional to convert people, just use mac day in and day out, occasionally show them some of the nifty abilities of our new OS, and drop in the odd snide remark when they have to re-install their whole system for the 5th time that month :D

King Cobra
Apr 11, 2002, 03:47 PM
My theory on comparing a computer with a computer NEVER lies with MHz as the answer.

What really matters is the number of float-point operations per second. That means the number of cycles a computer can perform in one second.

You have all seen my newest catch phrase (if not then here's your chance) :

"In the time it takes to read this message, an Apple computer will already have performed 15 billion float-point operations more than a consumer PC."

This is saying that Apple's top line computer, the dual 1000MHz Apple desktop model, can perform 15 billion cycles, or 15 Gigaflops.

I still cannot remember the resource, but the 2.0GHz P4 can only perform around 0.3 Gigaflops. So I would say that such small increments in MHz for the P4 lead to small increments in flops in relation to Macs.

My guess: 15.0 Gigaflops w/Macs
only around 0.4 with the 2.4GHz P4.

chibianh
Apr 11, 2002, 05:08 PM
where would one be able to find these gigaflop benchmarks?

eyelikeart
Apr 11, 2002, 05:11 PM
how about hypnotism?! :D

krossfyter
Apr 11, 2002, 05:22 PM
well we have to go to strangers doors and bother them?


:)

britboy
Apr 11, 2002, 05:29 PM
as long as you don't bring any jehova's witness stuff with you :D

krossfyter
Apr 11, 2002, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by britboy
as long as you don't bring any jehova's witness stuff with you :D


hey...im not one anyways....in the organizational meaning.

im a Jesus follower....thats it.



i dont really dig that JW stuff anyways.


;)

britboy
Apr 11, 2002, 05:46 PM
sorry, that wasn't specifically directed at you krossfyter. Besides, i'm a christian too. I just have an aversion to having strange people with weird ideas turning up and asking to come in! :rolleyes:

krossfyter
Apr 11, 2002, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by britboy
sorry, that wasn't specifically directed at you krossfyter. Besides, i'm a christian too. I just have an aversion to having strange people with weird ideas turning up and asking to come in! :rolleyes:

nah i completley understand. i didnt take offense to it. its cool.

spuncan
Apr 12, 2002, 05:13 PM
Heres my test for Mac vs. Wintels. U get a mac and a Wintel machine w/ any version (preferably XP since its the newest and greatest windows (ha)). Tell the person to wipe (not format or partition completely wipe) they're hard drive and install another w/ in 5 minutes (not including install time). Oh yeah and since the Mac doesnt have a floppy drive, the Wintel cant use theres. Results- Mac done in under 2 minute (if a newer mac), Wintel Machine- almost impossible maybe a few hardcore techies can do it but no one else can. Oh yeah as in relevency this is very relevent cuz very often computer will have what seems lika a fatal error or fixable with a new computer or a five minute task w/ a mac.

Choppaface
Apr 18, 2002, 11:45 PM
http://www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html

mac15
Apr 18, 2002, 11:50 PM
or show PC users thats the mac platform is basically virus free
and you don't have to waste 200 bucks on anti-virus software
and you spend that cash on RAM or something else

Vilacr
Apr 19, 2002, 12:09 AM
How many people can be converted when macs are so far behind. When macs catch up then we can talk conversion. As for the mac being so much better than a pc I beg to differ. I love my macs but can't sit back and listen to lies about pc's. I have had a dell latitude (PIII 650, 256 meg ram, win2k) for about 2 or 3 years now and it has never given me a problem. In fact it is much faster than my ibook (500,640 meg ram,osx) bought it six months ago. For that matter it is about the same speed as my tibook(550,1 gig ram, osx) in everyday tasks.So lets stop the pc bashing and ask apple to give us up to date systems. I converted my sister b/c she likes how the ibook looks. For us hard core computer enthusiasts we need more than looks. We need state of the art systems. I want a tower but will not buy until it catches up to the pc world.

Taft
Apr 19, 2002, 12:22 AM
Lets put together a book with all of the ways to convert people. While we're at it we'll put all of the rules for being a Mac user in it. And the history of the Mac. No one questions the book.

Then we'll have retreats in remote locations. We'll even start building retreats in close proximity to large cities to attract people from those cities. We'll get them out to the camp and make them read our book and watch movies on how Macs are great and PC are the way to true evil.

We'll teach them Steve Jobs is the one true Master. Anyone who questions the word of Steve or of the Good Book will be punished.

Then when we have performed all of our missionary work on Earth, Steve our Master will take us to the far away world of Mactopia on his Velocity Engine powered spaceship. It is a world without PC users and the promised land. That is the true reward for the truly worthy.

So who's in??? We'll start having meetings this month. I'll bring the purple Koolaid.

You'll love it. Its a way of life.

Matthew

3rdpath
Apr 19, 2002, 12:22 AM
does a non-mac user need to be converted?

isn't there a chance that whatever system they're using is just fine for them?

i'm very happy with my macs***BUT***, they don't make me "think different" or be more creative or help me find the path to true inner peace......its a box that just sits there until i turn it on and tell it what to do.

i'm all for enthusiasm but the faint aroma of scientology is wafting in.


i think i'll skip the punchbowl, thank you.......

:D

MacAztec
Apr 19, 2002, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by 3rdpath
they don't make me "think different" or be more creative or help me find the path to true inner peace......its a box that just sits there until i turn it on and tell it what to do.

Well, if you weren't "thinking different"...you probly would not be on this site. I know my macs helped me find inner peace :D

No Mac is just a box, its practically a human. You have to treat it right, and it will treat you right ;)

teabgs
Apr 19, 2002, 12:29 PM
One thing to do is give them a windows machine and tell them to "have fun". They get the top of the line...with anything they want on it free. However, when it crashes, or gets the blue screen of death we take it back. Then give them a mac and do the same. When it crashes...we take it back....5 years later they're on their 3rd mac.

Also, I want that punch. I dont want the whole cult thing...can I just come along for the punch and then be on my way?

Taft
Apr 19, 2002, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by teabgs
Also, I want that punch. I dont want the whole cult thing...can I just come along for the punch and then be on my way?

You might not want the punch. Remember that cult that drank the punch to "off themselves" a few years back?

Be careful what you drink, especially when it comes from from overly charismatic people. Whats that? Steve Jobs is giving free bottled water to all of the keynote attendees? Yeah, that sounds about right...

Matthew

teabgs
Apr 19, 2002, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Taft


You might not want the punch. Remember that cult that drank the punch to "off themselves" a few years back?

Be careful what you drink, especially when it comes from from overly charismatic people. Whats that? Steve Jobs is giving free bottled water to all of the keynote attendees? Yeah, that sounds about right...

Matthew

True, but you only live once, might as well live it up! Doing anything that's potentially life threatening is so fun. I went skydiving this summer and it was the greatest thing I've ever done. I cant wait to do it again.

Everyone should do it once in their life...so amazing.

pc_convert?
Apr 19, 2002, 01:01 PM
Converting PC users eh?

Well being one of the newly converted, try this next time you see a PC user whose system has crashed.

You: "Whats happened?"
PCUser: "Oh Windows has just crashed"
You: "Wow I've never seen that before!" (needs to be convincing)
PCUser: "What the hell? Never seen windows crash? What version of windows are you running?"
You: "Mac OSX;) "
PCUser: " Must be nice...:( "

Geert
Apr 19, 2002, 01:13 PM
Once again guys this is turning out in a Mhz myth.

don't compare the HW, because that can not be messured.
Show the quality of the product, apps, Aqua,...
Tell them that intel/amd just make processors.
that M$ just writes apps without spirit (give them any M$ apps' name and they'll agree)
And then tell them that Apple not only develops HW, but also writes the apps that come with the machine, optimized to fit the HW (tell them that indeed (they like to be told that peecee has great things, but don't believe it) there are some truly great apps for peecee, but since they do not develop the HW they do not take any effort to meet the HW specs, because they don't care software developers and Hardware developers are in the peecee market for the money, they don't care on building a user friendly computer.
and that is what differentiates Apple from the rest, A goes for friendly UI and not money, otherwise Steve would not have rejoined a company in need, he would have jumped on the money making peecee train. (the 'sucking the peecee user out for all his money, and make sure he curses a lot'-money train)
tell them that every Mac that leaves the plant is build with love, and Chi (or what the heck is the word I'm looking for)
and get Snapz pro X and turn your desktop into a movie studio, taping every move you make, run through iMovie, export to QT, I'll bet they never seen something like that before.

mmmdreg
Apr 25, 2002, 07:08 AM
I've nearly converted this one guy at school..he admits macs are better but keeps saying "uncompatible" because it cant play a few select games like halflife and its mods, ghost recon and operation flashpoint...whats something I should say to really knock his opinions over?

Durandal7
Apr 26, 2002, 08:23 PM
I converted one of my friends a few years back by showing him my computer. He had a P3 300mhz w/192 MB RAM and was constantly complaining about how unstable and laggy the thing was. I showed him how much it was outperformed by my iMac 333mhz w/96 MB RAM. He never insulted the Mac again (unless he was trying to be annoying).

mc68k
Apr 26, 2002, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by mmmdreg
I've nearly converted this one guy at school..he admits macs are better but keeps saying "uncompatible" because it cant play a few select games like halflife and its mods, ghost recon and operation flashpoint...whats something I should say to really knock his opinions over?

The Macintosh platform is not a gaming platform, and I don't think it ever will be. If people's opinions of a computer are based upon gaming, then it will be impossible to argue for a Mac, since we all know they still don't have a fraction of the variation in their game base.

One-mindedness is a typical shortcoming of many users of a platform— the users who truly get it are always the ones who are multi-facteted and have experience with whatever they can learn.

You will have to plan your strategy in all areas of the computing experience. If he keeps bringing up the gaming experience, then there's no hope, he'll be happier on a PC. If he's open to other areas of the computing experience, then that's your way in. You say he admits that macs are better, so ask him how he came to this conclusion and play off what he says. There's no one statement that will really "knock his opinions over", you'll have to be dynamic and be able to adapt to his arguments based off his ignorance of the mac platform. Let him win the debate for you based off his own mis-perceived notions.

Hope this helps. Winning people over to the light side of the force is one of the most rewarding experinces you can ever have, if you haven't already.

alex_ant
Apr 26, 2002, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by King Cobra
What really matters is the number of float-point operations per second. That means the number of cycles a computer can perform in one second.
KC, I hate to pick on you again, but you do know what a floating-point operation is, right?
I still cannot remember the resource, but the 2.0GHz P4 can only perform around 0.3 Gigaflops. So I would say that such small increments in MHz for the P4 lead to small increments in flops in relation to Macs.

My guess: 15.0 Gigaflops w/Macs
only around 0.4 with the 2.4GHz P4.
Keep in mind that the 15 gigaflops that Apple claims for the dual 1GHz Power Mac is the maximum possible with completely vectorized FP code (so that it can take advantage of AltiVec). If that 0.4 gigaflops number you've got for the P4 is correct, I'm guessing it must be for the slowest P4 there is (whatever that is), because it sounds really low. Also keep in mind that you're comparing two CPUs to one.

A more comprehensive benchmark of FP speed, more indicative of real-world performance, is SPEC_CPU2000. Unfortunately, Apple does not publish results for this benchmark because it is, AFAIK, not vectorized, and thus does not rely on AltiVec, and thus has to run on the G4's terrible FPU, and Apple doesn't want to embarass itself. So the results I have are unofficial. http://www.mtl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~nminoru/memo/spec_cpu2000.html

If you want to compare the cream of Intel's crop (2.2GHz P4) to the cream of Apple's crop (1GHz G4) not taking AltiVec into account, the P4 is nearly four times faster than the G4 running FP code (a score of 779 vs. 178). AltiVec changes the picture quite a bit, however. The problem is that, unlike the case with every other desktop, server, and workstation CPU on the market, code meant to run on the AltiVec unit must likely be re-written, because Apple's compiler doesn't do auto-vectorization. So any benchmark speed gains due to AltiVec need to have an asterisk next to them.

Alex