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MacRumors
Oct 22, 2007, 03:37 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has announced (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/10/22results.html) their financial results for their 4th quarter 2007 (July - September 2007). The Company posted revenue of $6.22 billion and net quarterly profit of $904 million, or $1.01 per diluted share. These results compare to revenue of $4.84 billion and net quarterly profit of $542 million, or $.62 per diluted share, in the year-ago quarter.

Apple shipped 2,164,000 Macintosh(R) computers, representing 34 percent growth over the year-ago quarter and exceeding the previous quarterly record for Mac(R) shipments by 400,000. Apple sold 10,200,000 iPods during the quarter, representing 17 percent growth over the year-ago quarter. Quarterly iPhone sales were 1,119,000, bringing cumulative fiscal 2007 sales to 1,389,000.

"We are very pleased to have generated over $24 billion in revenue and $3.5 billion in net income in fiscal 2007," said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO. "We're looking forward to a strong December quarter as we enter the holiday season with Apple's best products ever."

"Apple ended the fiscal year with $15.4 billion in cash and no debt," said Peter Oppenheimer, Apple's CFO. "Looking ahead to the first quarter of fiscal 2008, we expect revenue of about $9.2 billion and earnings per diluted share of about $1.42."

Apple will be broadcasting their FY 07 Fourth Quarter Results Conference Call (http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/earningsq407/) live via Quicktime beginning at 2:00pm PDT, 5:00pm EDT. We will provide highlights and a summary of the call here.

Raw Data: Apple Press Release (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/10/22results.html)
Reference Data: 4Q 2006 Financial Results (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/10/18/apple-posts-546-million-profit/)

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/22/apple-4q-2007-results-conference-call-6-22-billion-revenue-904-million-prof/)



mainstreetmark
Oct 22, 2007, 03:39 PM
how many ipods?!?!

DMann
Oct 22, 2007, 03:40 PM
The Sky's the Limit!

yzp
Oct 22, 2007, 03:40 PM
I should deffinetly get apple stocks!!

jsnyd05
Oct 22, 2007, 03:40 PM
Wow

And they beat the street on guidance. Absolutely amazing.

Way to go apple!

paddy
Oct 22, 2007, 03:41 PM
Mother of God! :eek:

Data
Oct 22, 2007, 03:41 PM
Thats just crazy, Billions, lordy.

Kabeyun
Oct 22, 2007, 03:42 PM
1.4 million iPhones? Wow!

-K

twoodcc
Oct 22, 2007, 03:42 PM
wow! those are some very impressive numbers!

Nick012
Oct 22, 2007, 03:42 PM
Another few million in Scott Bourne's bank account...

zeppiecr
Oct 22, 2007, 03:43 PM
2.164m Macs
1.119m iPhones
10.2m iPods

flopticalcube
Oct 22, 2007, 03:43 PM
33% margins... whoa! :eek:

Passante
Oct 22, 2007, 03:43 PM
how many ipods?!?!

They sold 10,200,000 iPods . I'm sure someone will spin this as evidence that ipod sales are slowing :rolleyes:

Eidorian
Oct 22, 2007, 03:43 PM
Great news!

Now update the computer hardware. :p

jsd
Oct 22, 2007, 03:43 PM
iPhone sales still need to accelerate to make the goal. At the average rate they've been selling they'll make it to 5,500,000 or so...of course, I'm sure that sales will accelerate through Christmas given all the interest people have in my iPhone. Even my grandparents want one.

Rocksaurus
Oct 22, 2007, 03:43 PM
$15.4 billion in cash, sitting there. Why not acquire a few games studios for some Mac exclusives and/or go for the throat with some very aggressively priced computers? Seems like now is as good a time as ever to grab some market share.

Oh sorry, I forgot who I was talking about...

tk421
Oct 22, 2007, 03:44 PM
That's the first time they've sold over 2 million computers in a quarter. Way to go Apple!

mdriftmeyer
Oct 22, 2007, 03:44 PM
Stock is at $183.50 and rising.

Rocketman
Oct 22, 2007, 03:44 PM
Check this out.

"Gross margin was 33.6 percent, up from 29.2 percent in the year-ago quarter."

Rocketman

jaw04005
Oct 22, 2007, 03:44 PM
I believe most analysts were predicting 770,000 iPhones sold during the quarter. Let's see what it does to the stock price.

Queso
Oct 22, 2007, 03:44 PM
iPhone sales still need to accelerate to make the goal. At the average rate they've been selling they'll make it to 5,500,000 or so...of course, I'm sure that sales will accelerate through Christmas given all the interest people have in my iPhone. Even my grandparents want one.
So far they've only sold in the USA. The next quarter sees the potential market double, with the UK, France and Germany all seeing the iPhone launch.

Sbrocket
Oct 22, 2007, 03:46 PM
holy crap, the stock price jumped FAST

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/ExtendedTradingTrades.aspx?mode=frameset&kind=&symbol=AAPL&selected=AAPL&FormType=&mkttype=AFTER&pathname=&page=afterhours

phillipjfry
Oct 22, 2007, 03:46 PM
I never expected iPhone sales to spike in sales. I really expect them to gradually get sold as people who didn't want to pay contract canceling fees to jump in on a phone more expensive than their contract cancellation fee. Just a thought.

WildCowboy
Oct 22, 2007, 03:46 PM
iPhone sales still need to accelerate to make the goal. At the average rate they've been selling they'll make it to 5,500,000 or so...of course, I'm sure that sales will accelerate through Christmas given all the interest people have in my iPhone. Even my grandparents want one.

With five more quarter before the end of 2008, they'd be closer to 7 million at the current pace. But that doesn't account for the international launches that are just around the corner. Their potential market is about to get significantly bigger, and the sales numbers will certainly reflect that going forward.

We also only had less than a month at the lower price point, and perhaps even lower-priced models are in the pipeline as well.

Edit: Or just read dynamicv's post.

mrwizardno2
Oct 22, 2007, 03:47 PM
$15.4 billion in cash, sitting there. Why not acquire a few games studios for some Mac exclusives and/or go for the throat with some very aggressively priced computers? Seems like now is as good a time as ever to grab some market share.

Oh sorry, I forgot who I was talking about...

Are you kidding? Remember what happened when they cut iPhone prices? People pissed and moaned and got their apple credit.... think what this would cause.

"The Jones's just bought a macbook pro for $400 less than we did! Oh noes!"

*giggle*

zeppiecr
Oct 22, 2007, 03:47 PM
I want to know why apple guided higher than analysts estimates for next quarter as they always sandbag the numbers....they must know something we don't!

megfilmworks
Oct 22, 2007, 03:48 PM
These figures are a few weeks ago. They've sold a few since then.
The Apple stores are limiting purchases to 3 iPhones at a time. They are probably worried about having enough for the holiday rush.
And 10,000,000 iPods in 90 days. Wow:eek:

davebarnes
Oct 22, 2007, 03:50 PM
I just read the 8K which is available on the Apple website. The numbers are awesome.

My personal favorite number is: desktop units up by 30%. Apple is still a computer company.

Rocksaurus
Oct 22, 2007, 03:51 PM
Are you kidding? Remember what happened when they cut iPhone prices? People pissed and moaned and got their apple credit.... think what this would cause.

"The Jones's just bought a macbook pro for $400 less than we did! Oh noes!"

*giggle*

Sorry... I forgot where I was posting.

Sbrocket
Oct 22, 2007, 03:52 PM
I admit, that's a lot in cash reserves to just leave sitting there. I wonder if they're planning something for it.

BTW
Oct 22, 2007, 03:53 PM
That's the first time they've sold over 2 million computers in a quarter. Way to go Apple!

And well over 2 million Macs. Over 400,000 more than the last quarter, which means 2.5 to 3 million Macs for Q1 2008 is very realistic. :cool:

celavato
Oct 22, 2007, 03:54 PM
iPhone sales still need to accelerate to make the goal. At the average rate they've been selling they'll make it to 5,500,000 or so...of course, I'm sure that sales will accelerate through Christmas given all the interest people have in my iPhone. Even my grandparents want one.

You're forgetting about the less expensive iPhone nano or whatever that Steve will pull out of his pocket at MacWorld Expo. That device will overtake the iPhone in volume if not revenue.

Rocketman
Oct 22, 2007, 03:55 PM
I admit, that's a lot in cash reserves to just leave sitting there. I wonder if they're planning something for it.

They use it for prepayments to vendors to get level memory and CPU chip pricing and early access to volume shipments.

Good for everyone. This sales growth needs to be funded with a huge goods in process float.

Rocketman

ucfgrad93
Oct 22, 2007, 03:56 PM
Wow, just amazing numbers from Apple. Over 2 million computers (I bought one!), 10 million iPods, and just over 1.1 million iPhones in 90 days.

Who said our (and the world's) economy is bad? ;)

jstad
Oct 22, 2007, 03:56 PM
way to go apple. It is great to see consistant growth for this long a period. User Interface innovation is not dead :p

gugy
Oct 22, 2007, 03:58 PM
You're forgetting about the less expensive iPhone nano or whatever that Steve will pull out of his pocket at MacWorld Expo. That device will overtake the iPhone in volume if not revenue.

I agree, Apple needs a bare bones $200 or less cheap iPhone. Call nano if you want. That would be a huge hit. I would buy the regular iPhone for me and the nano to my wife since she's not so much into gadgets. but seriously Apple need to address these folks that do not want to, for example get a family plan and have to buy 4 iPhones at $400 each, That's crazy. Bring a cheap version for the kids and wife or husband, etc.:D

Queso
Oct 22, 2007, 04:02 PM
BTW, going with the Gartner estimates for PC shipments this quarter, these results give the Mac 7.7% US share & 3.2% worldwide.

With IDC's numbers, Apple get 7.2% US and once again 3.2% worldwide.

freeny
Oct 22, 2007, 04:03 PM
Anyone know where you can see real time after hours quotes on the web?

Football1maniac
Oct 22, 2007, 04:03 PM
Dear Gawd, its like total domination for Apple Inc. But the most impressive number has to be the 10 million iPods sold in this quarter. Is it just me, or does it feel great that I was one of these people that contributed to this? :D:apple:

Long Live Steve Jobs!

Now for the number of how many bricked/jailbroken/refurbished/defective iPods + iPhones there are.:D

neven
Oct 22, 2007, 04:05 PM
Anyone know where you can see real time after hours quotes on the web?

http://finance.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=AAPL

As real-time as it gets.

Kipling
Oct 22, 2007, 04:06 PM
And well over 2 million Macs. Over 400,000 more than the last quarter, which means 2.5 to 3 million Macs for Q1 2008 is very realistic. :cool:

Yup.

They've broken through the '7m Macs in a year' barrier, for the first time (ever?).

And the '50m iPods in a year' barrier, for the first time ever.

And total iPhone sales to date are 1.389 m, if you include the 270k from the last couple of days of the last quarter.

Sbrocket
Oct 22, 2007, 04:07 PM
Anyone know where you can see real time after hours quotes on the web?

The best I can find is the Nasdaq quotes which are delayed 15 minutes but better than nothing.

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/ExtendedTradingTrades.aspx?mode=frameset&kind=&symbol=AAPL&selected=AAPL&FormType=&mkttype=AFTER&pathname=&page=afterhours

EDIT: Scratch that, these are realtime.

Schtumple
Oct 22, 2007, 04:07 PM
3 negatives, are you kidding me?!?!

sananda
Oct 22, 2007, 04:09 PM
3 negatives, are you kidding me?!?!

club getting less exclusive maybe. just a guess.

Agathon
Oct 22, 2007, 04:10 PM
I can't seem to get the conference call to work. :(

me_94501
Oct 22, 2007, 04:11 PM
Is anybody else having trouble listening to the conference call stream?

tadunne
Oct 22, 2007, 04:11 PM
iPhone sales still need to accelerate to make the goal. At the average rate they've been selling they'll make it to 5,500,000 or so...of course, I'm sure that sales will accelerate through Christmas given all the interest people have in my iPhone. Even my grandparents want one.

You're forgetting that the iphone won't be on sale in Europe until Nov. That will help sales I'm sure..

odedia
Oct 22, 2007, 04:12 PM
Thank god I bought some Apple stocks earlier today... :D

Agathon
Oct 22, 2007, 04:12 PM
Is anybody else having trouble listening to the conference call stream?

Mine won't even start.

neven
Oct 22, 2007, 04:13 PM
Is anybody else having trouble listening to the conference call stream?

Same here - it never starts, never even starts to buffer.

macshark
Oct 22, 2007, 04:13 PM
What is the hidden gem behind all these numbers is the "deferred revenue".

If you look at the financial statements:

http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q407fin_statements2.pdf

There is more than 1.4 billion dollars worth of "current" deferred revenue. 346 million of this is from "iPhone and Apple TV". Anyone knows what is the source of the 634 million dollars of the "other" deferred revenue?

Now let's look at the summary data from Apple website:

http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q407data_sum.pdf

Check out the line for "iPhone related products and services" near the bottom. It shows 1,119 million units sold, but the total recognized revenue is only $118 million! Apple is recognizing only $100 revenue per iPhone sold last quarter, despite the fact that they were getting additional incentives (~$150 according to the rumor mill) from AT&T.

It looks like Apple is using the "deferred revenue" trick to under-report the revenue and profits for a stellar quarter. The actual revenue would have been close to $7 billion and profits would have been in excess of a billion without revenue deferral.

Revenue deferral will most likely help balance out a few potential "not-so-great" quarters in the future (if that is possible) by spreading the loot from stellar quarters (like the current one) evenly over a longer period of time.

Bottomline: Last quarter was actually much better than what the top-level numbers in the earning release says. It will be interesting to hear the questions from analysts in the conference call.

Agathon
Oct 22, 2007, 04:15 PM
Same here - it never starts, never even starts to buffer.

No one else is either. TUAW has got nothin'

And I paid for QT Pro!!! ;)

notsofatjames
Oct 22, 2007, 04:15 PM
3 negatives, are you kidding me?!?!

maybe some people don't like seeing how much profit Apple are making on us...

or maybe some people don't want the mac market-share to grow so much, since the most used OS, is the one thats targeted most by hackers. And with higher productions volumes, less quality seems to come through..

but that could be someone's opinion.

toxicbomber
Oct 22, 2007, 04:15 PM
Won't work! :eek:

eazyway
Oct 22, 2007, 04:15 PM
Anyone know where you can see real time after hours quotes on the web?

Go to the nasdaq site . Extended trading will give you real time trades.

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/ExtendedTradingTrades.aspx?page=afterhours&mkttype=after&&symbol=AAPL&selected=AAPL

longofest
Oct 22, 2007, 04:15 PM
I admit, that's a lot in cash reserves to just leave sitting there. I wonder if they're planning something for it.

They use it for prepayments to vendors to get level memory and CPU chip pricing and early access to volume shipments.

Good for everyone. This sales growth needs to be funded with a huge goods in process float.

Rocketman

Rocketman has a point, but keep in mind that the cash doesn't just sit there... Apple can (and does) invest it and make money off of it. Just think of what 15 billion in the bank will get in interest ;)

MLeepson
Oct 22, 2007, 04:16 PM
Is anybody else having trouble listening to the conference call stream?

I am. When I click the link it open Quicktime and then just sits there.

It looks as if a lot of people are having this issue,

simX
Oct 22, 2007, 04:18 PM
It looks like Apple is using the "deferred revenue" trick to under-report the revenue and profits for a stellar quarter.

There's no trick. Apple has publicly announced many times that they were moving to subscription-based financial reporting for its Apple TV and iPhone product lines. This was mainly so that they can provide software updates with increased functionality without running afoul of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act and having to charge for it la 802.11n enabler.

goodcow
Oct 22, 2007, 04:19 PM
33% margins... and yet the Leopard Edu pricing is almost doubled.

WAY TO GO $TEVE!

simX
Oct 22, 2007, 04:19 PM
Without Classic support and G3 support we have a load of Macs we don't bother upgrading. They still do their job fine.

Seriously, then just don't freaking upgrade to Leopard.

If you have data locked up in OS 9-only formats, it's your own damn fault. You've known for 6 years that OS 9 was a dead-end OS, and mitigation strategies for continued access of that data should have been in place years ago. There's simply no excuse.

Educational software is admittedly a bigger problem, but again, you've known for 6 years that you need to find replacements. And of course, Apple isn't forcing you to upgrade to Leopard, so you can conceivably continue to run your Classic-only applications for the foreseeable future (as long as your Macs don't break).

But chiding Apple for not supporting a 6-year old OS is pretty whiny. And, as pointed out, this doesn't really have anything to do with the quarterly results.

toxicbomber
Oct 22, 2007, 04:19 PM
Darn.. sorry guys. It already started. We all missed it. Apple employee I talked to said it started ages ago..... or he could have been kidding but I doubt that.

sionharris
Oct 22, 2007, 04:19 PM
kerCHING!!

P-Worm
Oct 22, 2007, 04:19 PM
Get real time quotes here for free...

http://www.level2quotes.com/

Currently at 185.20...

P-Worm

Agathon
Oct 22, 2007, 04:20 PM
Useless idiots. You'd think they could get the webcast to work properly.

Clowns.

blackcrayon
Oct 22, 2007, 04:20 PM
There's no trick. Apple has publicly announced many times that they were moving to subscription-based financial reporting for its Apple TV and iPhone product lines. This was mainly so that they can provide software updates with increased functionality without running afoul of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act and having to charge for it la 802.11n enabler.

Now to invest that 15 billion into getting that POS Act repealed ;) ;)

slackpacker
Oct 22, 2007, 04:24 PM
Were in de money were in de money do do do ....dooo!

plumbingandtech
Oct 22, 2007, 04:26 PM
Just think of what 15 billion in the bank will get in interest


Lot's of spicy meatballs?

JeffTL
Oct 22, 2007, 04:27 PM
What is the hidden gem behind all these numbers is the "deferred revenue".

If you look at the financial statements:

http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q407fin_statements2.pdf

There is more than 1.4 billion dollars worth of "current" deferred revenue. 346 million of this is from "iPhone and Apple TV". Anyone knows what is the source of the 634 million dollars of the "other" deferred revenue?

Now let's look at the summary data from Apple website:

http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q407data_sum.pdf

Check out the line for "iPhone related products and services" near the bottom. It shows 1,119 million units sold, but the total recognized revenue is only $118 million! Apple is recognizing only $100 revenue per iPhone sold last quarter, despite the fact that they were getting additional incentives (~$150 according to the rumor mill) from AT&T.

It looks like Apple is using the "deferred revenue" trick to under-report the revenue and profits for a stellar quarter. The actual revenue would have been close to $7 billion and profits would have been in excess of a billion without revenue deferral.

Revenue deferral will most likely help balance out a few potential "not-so-great" quarters in the future (if that is possible) by spreading the loot from stellar quarters (like the current one) evenly over a longer period of time.

Bottomline: Last quarter was actually much better than what the top-level numbers in the earning release says. It will be interesting to hear the questions from analysts in the conference call.

I dare say you're rather quick to allege earnings management "tricks" simply on the basis of the presence of deferred revenues. For revenues to be recognized as such, rather than deferred, they must be both earned and either realized or realizable as cash. When the revenue is earned and when it is considered to be realizable are very complex accounting questions that differ greatly from company to company.

rtdunham
Oct 22, 2007, 04:27 PM
i've interrupted a 3-day drive to hear the qtrly report...persuaded a very nice hotel manager to let me spend a couple hours in her lobby listening to it, sharing her free coffee. But nothing at the link...nada. Can anyone confirm whether it's started yet, or whether it IS apple's intent to webcast it?

iDAG
Oct 22, 2007, 04:30 PM
You have to wonder what they are saying in the call cause no one can listen to it!:eek:

dicklacara
Oct 22, 2007, 04:31 PM
Anyone know where you can see real time after hours quotes on the web?

You prolly need an account with a broker.

I use Interactive brokers and Scottrade.

as of this post $187.61 up $17.19
edit

187.51 up $17.09

netdog
Oct 22, 2007, 04:33 PM
You have to wonder what they are saying in the call cause no one can listen to it!:eek:

They're all fawning over the new Mac Pros.

Sbrocket
Oct 22, 2007, 04:33 PM
You prolly need an account with a broker.

I use Interactive brokers and Scottrade.

as of this post $187.61 up $17.19
edit

187.51 up $17.09

Nasdaq.com (http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/ExtendedTradingTrades.aspx?mode=frameset&kind=&timeframe=&intraday=&charttype=&splits=&earnings=&movingaverage=&lowerstudy=&comparison=&index=&symbol=AAPL&symbol=AA&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&FormType=&mkttype=after&pathname=&page=afterhours&selected=AAPL)has real time After Hours quotes.

Queso
Oct 22, 2007, 04:36 PM
I think the announcement of Apple Stores in China is going down well :)

plumbingandtech
Oct 22, 2007, 04:38 PM
I think the announcement of Apple Stores in China is going down well :)

Who want's go guess where?

Hong Kong first?

Queso
Oct 22, 2007, 04:41 PM
Who want's go guess where?

Hong Kong first?
Has to be. The only alternative I can see is Shanghai. However Hong Kong will be easier for Apple thanks to the English language being so widespread.

abrooks
Oct 22, 2007, 04:41 PM
Who want's go guess where?

Hong Kong first?

They already said, will be in Beijing just in time for the Olympics.

Queso
Oct 22, 2007, 04:43 PM
They already said, will be in Beijing just in time for the Olympics.
Missed that. Ta :)

macshark
Oct 22, 2007, 04:45 PM
Conference call is going on. I have never seen Apple execs post so confidently about the next quarter (and future) in general. ( The next quarter may easily see $10B+ revenue, despite the conservative $9.2B estimate from the CFO.)

They still talk about high component prices potentially leading to lower gross margin for the Xmas quarter. DRAM and NAND flash prices are still falling down but they are worried about hard drive and LCD prices.

Handset sales are recognized over a 24-month time, or 8 quarters. (Given that Apple has recognized about $100 revenue per iPhone sold this quarter, Apple's total revenue per iPhone will be at least in the $800 range. Looks like the kick-backs from AT&T and others are more lucrative than a few hundred dollars.)

Question on iPhone pricing being higher in Europe and going up? Answer: Europe prices include VAT and other duties.

Direct sales were 57% of company revenue.

Question on why Europe outgrew US 4-quarters in a row? Answer: Europe did not have the typical "August" wall. New iMac and iPod announcements helped sales in September.

Question: What are the biggest drivers quarter over quarter? Answer: Holiday quarter is usually the biggest quarter for iPods. We are shipping the best iPod line-up ever. We saw iPhone sales accelerate after the price cuts.

Question: Japan? Answer: Japan is the most challenging market. However, the new iMac was very well received. Units up 14% year over year while the overall PC market in Japan contracted 2%.

Question: How should we calibrate your guidance? (implying they estimate much less than the actual revenue for the past quarters) Answer: We are very confident in our strategy. Everything is coming together quite well for us. We are very happy. (Polite way to say "we are sandbagging the next quarter"?)

offwidafairies
Oct 22, 2007, 04:47 PM
Now update the computer hardware. :p

Yeah no computers were in the highlights, except iMac being well received.
So Apple is making a massive profit. They should bring prices down on their overpriced computers - or at least their overpriced ram so I can order it directly from Apple rather than 3rd party after the new baby arrives :D

Detlev_73
Oct 22, 2007, 04:48 PM
I agree, Apple needs a bare bones $200 or less cheap iPhone. Call nano if you want. That would be a huge hit. I would buy the regular iPhone for me and the nano to my wife since she's not so much into gadgets. but seriously Apple need to address these folks that do not want to, for example get a family plan and have to buy 4 iPhones at $400 each, That's crazy. Bring a cheap version for the kids and wife or husband, etc.:D

Yeah, great. That way every little teenie-bopper and their mom can go to the mall, grocery store, and restaurant, with their iPhone Nano glued to the side of their head and annoy the rest of the properly educated world, who would never air their dirty laundry in public, about how their husband doesn't hit her G-Spot right, or how they're SO upset that they only got a Gucci bag instead of a Luis Vuitton bag, or how they got a yeast infection from their pool boy, Ernesto, on and on and on, listening to the same friggin' psycho mumbo jumbo that we've all been subjected to by being forced to listen to the conversation since they're talking louder than a leaf blower. Get a life, nouveaux riche! :eek: Yes, I went there ;)

TurboSC
Oct 22, 2007, 04:49 PM
I hope everyone at Apple gets very excited and decides to overhaul and work non-stop to release a new MacBookPro for the holiday season :(

dmelgar
Oct 22, 2007, 04:50 PM
Same here - it never starts, never even starts to buffer.
Same here. I restarted everything and it still doesn't work.

I tried it on a Vista laptop and it worked there! WTF, and Apple analyst call only works on Windows machines?! I keep trying on Mac and it still doesn't work.

runplaysleeprun
Oct 22, 2007, 04:51 PM
$187.65 and climbing...

plumbingandtech
Oct 22, 2007, 04:51 PM
They already said, will be in Beijing just in time for the Olympics.

Thank you.

gmanrique
Oct 22, 2007, 04:51 PM
Come on people, grow up.

33% margins... and yet the Leopard Edu pricing is almost doubled.

WAY TO GO $TEVE!

Tim117
Oct 22, 2007, 04:51 PM
A little while ago, I was thinking about getting some Apple sticks. Really wish I did.

zwida
Oct 22, 2007, 04:51 PM
Yeah, great. That way every little teenie-bopper and their mom can go to the mall, grocery store, and restaurant, with their iPhone Nano glued to the side of their head and annoy the rest of the properly educated world, who would never air their dirty laundry in public, about how their husband doesn't hit her G-Spot right, or how they're SO upset that they only got a Gucci bag instead of a Luis Vuitton bag, or how they got a yeast infection from their pool boy, Ernesto, on and on and on, listening to the same friggin' psycho mumbo jumbo that we've all been subjected to by being forced to listen to the conversation since they're talking louder than a leaf blower. Get a life, nouveaux riche! :eek: Yes, I went there ;)

Sure, people ARE annoying. Since the twits are already out there having these very conversations, I'd rather they spend their allowance with Apple than some other firm.

zwida
Oct 22, 2007, 04:52 PM
A little while ago, I was thinking about getting some Apple sticks. Really wish I did.

Those Apple sticks are delicious. Like a fruity Slim Jim...

sananda
Oct 22, 2007, 04:53 PM
Yeah, great. That way every little teenie-bopper and their mom can go to the mall, grocery store, and restaurant, with their iPhone Nano glued to the side of their head and annoy the rest of the properly educated world, who would never air their dirty laundry in public, about how their husband doesn't hit her G-Spot right, or how they're SO upset that they only got a Gucci bag instead of a Luis Vuitton bag, or how they got a yeast infection from their pool boy, Ernesto, on and on and on, listening to the same friggin' psycho mumbo jumbo that we've all been subjected to by being forced to listen to the conversation since they're talking louder than a leaf blower. Get a life, nouveaux riche! :eek: Yes, I went there ;)

that was weird!

Cinematographer
Oct 22, 2007, 04:59 PM
Those Apple sticks are delicious. Like a fruity Slim Jim...

I guess he ment "stickers". ;)

CANEHDN
Oct 22, 2007, 04:59 PM
Apple is dominating. Good for Apple. Soon the world will see the benefits to the superior product. I can't believe those iPod numbers. They just can't make those things fast enough. I also love seeing these Macintosh numbers growing like that. It makes me feel all tingly.

shawnce
Oct 22, 2007, 05:03 PM
Yeah no computers were in the highlights, except iMac being well received.
So Apple is making a massive profit. They should bring prices down on their overpriced computers - or at least their overpriced ram so I can order it directly from Apple rather than 3rd party after the new baby arrives :D Yeah not like Apple grew Mac unit volumes by 34% from the same quarter last year, setting a record for Mac unit volume... The reality is that with unit growth like that Apple has little reason to drop prices (generally already well priced compared to other vendors). You can only grow so fast before product quality, support quality, etc. are negatively affected.

Jenny1
Oct 22, 2007, 05:03 PM
iPhone/iPod touch is in my Christmas wish list. Apple :cool:

cazlar
Oct 22, 2007, 05:04 PM
I remember that many people doubted that report that 10% of iPhone were unlocked (I didn't!). By Apples own numbers then they are now estimating ~18%!

So hopefully in the future Apple won't be so keen to clamp down on what they now know is a sizable group of purchasers, despite their loss of AT&T kickback from them.

motulist
Oct 22, 2007, 05:05 PM
300 million people are US citizens. If apple sold over 2 million computer this past year, that basically means that 1 out of every 150 people you pass on the street just bought a Mac sometime in this year. And since most Macs have a life span of about 3 years before being replaced (last I checked) that means 1 out of every 50 people uses a Mac. And if you consider the fact that most old Macs get passed on to other people after their original owner has bought a new Mac, then that number gets even more than 1 Mac being used for every 50 people you see on the street.

Obviously this is just a very loose analysis that doesn't account for several significant factors (including international sales, non-citizen residents, etc.), but it gives you a really good general idea of just how well Apple is doing these days.

pdxflint
Oct 22, 2007, 05:07 PM
I'm assuming it's live, since it's been going since I connected at 2:15pm Pacific time. I don't know what all the problems is with folks not being able to connect, since I'm using an ancient Thinkpad at a wifi cafe (running win2k.) It started right up, clear as a bell.

Well, they're wrapping it up now, giving the url's for replays avail later today...

Conference call now over...

On the real-time quotes... I wouldn't really count on the free sites giving it un-delayed... I compare my Marketcaster streaming real-time quotes via e-Trade to google finance, and google lags by 15-20 minutes - I have them going on simultaneously in separate tabs in Firefox. I watched it climb like a rocket up to 188, then when it leveled off, and started dropping, I put in a $187 limit order (after-hours) to sell, and got 187.14. Now, nearly 45 minutes later it's been hovering in the 187.30-187.65 range, currently at 187.32. At least I locked in my gains. I expect in the pre-market tomorrow it'll fall a bit, and I'll jump back in with a trailing-stop order...

At least I can sleep well tonight knowing I won't give it all back in the morning before I wake up... :)

sananda
Oct 22, 2007, 05:09 PM
300 million people are US citizens. If apple sold over 2 million computer this past year, that basically means that 1 out of every 150 people you pass on the street just bought a Mac sometime in this year. And since most Macs have a life span of about 3 years before being replaced (last I checked) that means 1 out of every 50 people uses a Mac. And if you consider the fact that most old Macs get passed on to other people after their original owner has bought a new Mac, then that number gets even more than 1 Mac being used for every 50 people you see on the street.

Obviously this is just a very loose analysis that doesn't account for several significant factors (including international sales, non-citizen residents, etc.), but it gives you a really good general idea of just how well Apple is doing these days.

did they say they sold 2 million macs in the past 12 months in the US? i thought they said they sold 2 million in the past quarter worldwide.

joseph2166
Oct 22, 2007, 05:09 PM
300 million people are US citizens. If apple sold over 2 million computer this past year, that basically means that 1 out of every 150 people you pass on the street just bought a Mac sometime in this year.

Surely the 2mill figure is worldwide sales?

Phil A.
Oct 22, 2007, 05:11 PM
After hours trading currently has Apple stock at $187.50 giving them a market cap of over $160bn. Apple are now bigger than IBM :eek:

iMartini
Oct 22, 2007, 05:12 PM
So, when I get Leopard I can use Time Machine to go back to 1997 and buy loads of Apple stock, right?

(crickets chirping...)

Peace
Oct 22, 2007, 05:14 PM
So, when I get Leopard I can use Time Machine to go back to 1997 and buy loads of Apple stock, right?

(crickets chirping...)

Right!!


*looks around suspiciously*

gmanrique
Oct 22, 2007, 05:16 PM
Mr. Wu, is that you?
:)

If not, you sure sound like one with those numbers, statistics and estimates.


300 million people are US citizens. If apple sold over 2 million computer this past year, that basically means that 1 out of every 150 people you pass on the street just bought a Mac sometime in this year. And since most Macs have a life span of about 3 years before being replaced (last I checked) that means 1 out of every 50 people uses a Mac. And if you consider the fact that most old Macs get passed on to other people after their original owner has bought a new Mac, then that number gets even more than 1 Mac being used for every 50 people you see on the street.

Obviously this is just a very loose analysis that doesn't account for several significant factors (including international sales, non-citizen residents, etc.), but it gives you a really good general idea of just how well Apple is doing these days.

offwidafairies
Oct 22, 2007, 05:19 PM
Yeah not like Apple grew Mac unit volumes by 34% from the same quarter last year, setting a record for Mac unit volume... The reality is that with unit growth like that Apple has little reason to drop prices (generally already well priced compared to other vendors). You can only grow so fast before product quality, support quality, etc. are negatively affected.

shame. i live in hope ;)

Cinematographer
Oct 22, 2007, 05:19 PM
If apple sold over 2 million computer this past year, that basically means that 1 out of every 150 people you pass on the street just bought a Mac sometime in this year.

These are worldwide sales - for one quarter. Apple sold 7.051 mio units in fiscal 2007 (another record of course).

flopticalcube
Oct 22, 2007, 05:20 PM
Surely the 2mill figure is worldwide sales?

2 million in the last quarter worldwide. Makes approx 7 million for the year.

These are worldwide sales - for one quarter. Apple sold 7.051 mio units in fiscal 2007 (another record of course).

SNAP!

ctakim
Oct 22, 2007, 05:21 PM
Wow, just amazing numbers from Apple. Over 2 million computers (I bought one!), 10 million iPods, and just over 1.1 million iPhones in 90 days.

Who said our (and the world's) economy is bad? ;)


And I bought two this quarter (a mini and an iMac):)

Cinematographer
Oct 22, 2007, 05:27 PM
And if we keep on calculating: In july, august and early september, Apple sold iPhones at a pace of approximately 10,000 per day. After the price drop, Apple sold them at a pace of approx. 19,500 per day.

That's a nice effect.

(Well in june, they sold 135,000 per day :p)

50548
Oct 22, 2007, 05:27 PM
It pays to be a FANBOY! Any of the moronic PC zealots to say that "Apple is beleaguered" now? EAT SOME CROW, BALLMER BOYS! APPLE IS SIMPLY THE BIGGEST IT COMPANY ON EARTH!

farmboy
Oct 22, 2007, 05:27 PM
$15.4 billion in cash, sitting there. Why not acquire a few games studios for some Mac exclusives and/or go for the throat with some very aggressively priced computers? Seems like now is as good a time as ever to grab some market share.

Oh sorry, I forgot who I was talking about...


Agressively priced = low margins. Apple doesn't do low margins. Apple doesn't do "hot swappable" component machines. Games made exclusively for Mac tend to quickly become old games because the makers don't generate the same kind of revenue they would get for Windows or Windows/Mac games. We went through this before with Apple, maybe before you were born.

sananda
Oct 22, 2007, 05:31 PM
APPLE IS SIMPLY THE BIGGEST IT COMPANY ON EARTH!

apart from the bigger ones.

Jetson
Oct 22, 2007, 05:32 PM
This is great news.

Being a longtime Apple customer, I was pretty upset around the 1998 timeframe when Apple was going through hard times. All the so-called experts were dissing Apple and saying it would go down the tubes soon - and they were smiling.

Microsoft ruled from on high.

My, my, how Steve Jobs, time, and the iPod have changed Apple's fortunes.

farmboy
Oct 22, 2007, 05:33 PM
I agree, Apple needs a bare bones $200 or less cheap iPhone. Call nano if you want. That would be a huge hit. I would buy the regular iPhone for me and the nano to my wife since she's not so much into gadgets. but seriously Apple need to address these folks that do not want to, for example get a family plan and have to buy 4 iPhones at $400 each, That's crazy. Bring a cheap version for the kids and wife or husband, etc.:D

Apple doesn't do low margin phones either.

Sorry, that's just not their game.

gwangung
Oct 22, 2007, 05:36 PM
Agressively priced = low margins. Apple doesn't do low margins.

Heh. In more stable industries, where companies tend to last longer, margins of 25-35% ARE low. It's only in PC manufacturing that you can think of margins like that as "fat".

Perhaps Apple would like to be a stable company and be around for the longer term. And that's why they try to keep their margins in that area.

amac4me
Oct 22, 2007, 05:39 PM
More switchers, switchers, and switchers!!! :) :cool: :D

egoldin
Oct 22, 2007, 05:40 PM
I thought I was making a good move by selling the stock when it hit $75. Man oh man, I could afford quite a few new Macs if I hadn't sold it.

Chris K
Oct 22, 2007, 05:41 PM
On the related subject, Can anyone tell me if they've found real time quotes that work on the iPhone? Most brokerages use Java or Flash or something that the iPhone doesn't like.

Ideas? Thanks!

martijn.s
Oct 22, 2007, 05:43 PM
iPhone sales still need to accelerate to make the goal. At the average rate they've been selling they'll make it to 5,500,000 or so...of course, I'm sure that sales will accelerate through Christmas given all the interest people have in my iPhone. Even my grandparents want one.



and "maybe" because the iPhone will be available outside the USA ?

the european market is easily twice as big as the USA market.

farmboy
Oct 22, 2007, 05:48 PM
Heh. In more stable industries, where companies tend to last longer, margins of 25-35% ARE low. It's only in PC manufacturing that you can think of margins like that as "fat".

Perhaps Apple would like to be a stable company and be around for the longer term. And that's why they try to keep their margins in that area.

According to the Fool.com, the average corporate profit margin over the last 25 years is...8.3%.

I don't disagree with your premise, tho.

virduk
Oct 22, 2007, 05:52 PM
More switchers, switchers, and switchers!!! :) :cool: :D

I'd certainly like to be, but I'm one of those crazy people who requires an upgradable desktop that isn't a Mac Pro. Someone needs to beat Steve with sticks until he agrees to offer up such a Mac.

studiopix
Oct 22, 2007, 06:05 PM
Seeing negatives (currently at 7) for news reports such as these always crack me up.

BornAgainMac
Oct 22, 2007, 06:11 PM
I wish the movie "Pirates of Silicon Valley 2 - The Wrath of Jobs" would come out within the next 2 years. Then Pirates of Silicon Valley 3 - In Search of Woz". Apple really made a huge comeback before the dark times... before the empire.

DoFoT9
Oct 22, 2007, 06:12 PM
wow this is great news for apple. it finally looks like the effort they are putting in is being recognised by the world. i have been waiting for this for a loooong time. i did know that it was comming. apple is moving up. lookout everyone else :)

DoFoT9
Oct 22, 2007, 06:16 PM
These are worldwide sales - for one quarter. Apple sold 7.051 mio units in fiscal 2007 (another record of course).

so its more like 1 in every 6000???? lol

gugy
Oct 22, 2007, 06:22 PM
Apple doesn't do low margin phones either.

Sorry, that's just not their game.

I would not be so sure.
There is a huge market for cheaper phones. Even though Apple lowered the iPhone prices. Still an expensive phone to most folks.
I bet the iPhone nano is on the works.

Your thinking doesn't make sense. If that was the case Apple would never create the iPod nano or Shuffle. They would only keep their hi-end iPod line with higher profit margins.

gnasher729
Oct 22, 2007, 06:23 PM
did they say they sold 2 million macs in the past 12 months in the US? i thought they said they sold 2 million in the past quarter worldwide.

Official numbers are: 2.164 million computers world wide in the past quarter. 965,000 in the Americas (North + South, excluding retail) and 473,000 sales in retail. Apple doesn't give US sales, but US sales are 1.438 million, minus Canada, Mexico, Caribbean and South America, minus Apple Stores in UK and Italy.

Gartners estimates were 1,338 million US sales = 8.1% market share. That estimate would be correct if sales in the Americas outside USA and UK/Italy stores are exactly 100,000. I'd guess those sales were just a bit more, making it about 7.9% US market share. And that market share is units sold; revenue wise it is a lot more.

gnasher729
Oct 22, 2007, 06:28 PM
According to the Fool.com, the average corporate profit margin over the last 25 years is...8.3%.

I don't disagree with your premise, tho.

There is profit, and there is gross margin. Very different things. 33% gross margin means that Apple is $330 better off if you spend $1000 on a Mac, compared to you not buying a Mac. But it doesn't take in account development cost etc., only the cost of producing that one Mac and selling it to you. There is a lot that Apple has to pay out of those $330.

eyehop
Oct 22, 2007, 06:40 PM
When I bought my iMac at an Apple Store this year, no one asked if I was a first time buyer or not...:rolleyes:

mashny
Oct 22, 2007, 06:50 PM
After hours trading currently has Apple stock at $187.50 giving them a market cap of over $160bn. Apple are now bigger than IBM :eek:

At this pace, they'll be bigger than Microsoft by the end of 2009 (I actually have a bottle of champagne set aside for that day). I'm looking forward to seeing the word "beleagured" used whenever Microsoft is mentioned.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Microsoft's next board meeting. I wonder if Microsoft bans apples in the company cafeteria.

alljunks
Oct 22, 2007, 06:51 PM
apple's stock will be going up for sure!!

rdowns
Oct 22, 2007, 06:55 PM
apple's stock will be going up for sure!!


Must be true since you used 2 exclamation points. Not to mention he 16 in your signature. I'm buying...

ezekielrage_99
Oct 22, 2007, 07:05 PM
Personally I'm not surprised with how well Apple is doing, there have been very aggressive in marketing and developing a range of good quality products.

I think I should have bought Apple stock a few years ago...

zwida
Oct 22, 2007, 07:23 PM
When I bought my iMac at an Apple Store this year, no one asked if I was a first time buyer or not...:rolleyes:

Big Apple knows all...;)

mac 2005
Oct 22, 2007, 07:24 PM
$15.4 billion in cash, sitting there. Why not acquire a few games studios for some Mac exclusives and/or go for the throat with some very aggressively priced computers? Seems like now is as good a time as ever to grab some market share.

Oh sorry, I forgot who I was talking about...

The interesting thing about the "$15.4 billion in cash, sitting there".... Can you imagine the interest income that nest egg must generate? :eek:

A minimum of US $750 million per year.

I want to know why apple guided higher than analysts estimates for next quarter as they always sandbag the numbers....they must know something we don't!

I think they guide the numbers higher so that when they beat them, they get better traction with the analysts and the shareholders. It's one thing to beat guidance; it's another to up the ante and still beat the numbers.

freediverdude
Oct 22, 2007, 07:51 PM
Plus next quarter will include leopard numbers as well.......holy crap it's gonna be huge....

Edot
Oct 22, 2007, 08:20 PM
300 million people are US citizens. If apple sold over 2 million computer this past year, that basically means that 1 out of every 150 people you pass on the street just bought a Mac sometime in this year. And since most Macs have a life span of about 3 years before being replaced (last I checked) that means 1 out of every 50 people uses a Mac. And if you consider the fact that most old Macs get passed on to other people after their original owner has bought a new Mac, then that number gets even more than 1 Mac being used for every 50 people you see on the street.

Obviously this is just a very loose analysis that doesn't account for several significant factors (including international sales, non-citizen residents, etc.), but it gives you a really good general idea of just how well Apple is doing these days.

What about all the mac owners that own 5 macs or more. I'm pretty sure that encompasses most of the people who frequent this site. Plus, you have school labs, server farms, etc.:p

Random Ping
Oct 22, 2007, 09:06 PM
So far they've only sold in the USA. The next quarter sees the potential market double, with the UK, France and Germany all seeing the iPhone launch.

Also add in Asia next year, and an explosion of third-party applications following the SDK, and 10 miilion iPhones over 18 months (July 07 - Dec 08) shouldn't be a problem.

gdevitry
Oct 22, 2007, 09:12 PM
When I bought my iMac at an Apple Store this year, no one asked if I was a first time buyer or not...:rolleyes:

Did you complete a survey? I would imagine that is their method.

I received one for my iPhone.... asked about previous/current cell/age/etc

EagerDragon
Oct 22, 2007, 09:27 PM
$15.4 billion in cash, sitting there. Why not acquire a few games studios for some Mac exclusives and/or go for the throat with some very aggressively priced computers? Seems like now is as good a time as ever to grab some market share.

Oh sorry, I forgot who I was talking about...

Maybe invest on some decent Graphic cards.

EagerDragon
Oct 22, 2007, 09:30 PM
I want to know why apple guided higher than analysts estimates for next quarter as they always sandbag the numbers....they must know something we don't!

Because they are going to beat their own much higher extimates. Apple always under promises and over delivers.

Random Ping
Oct 22, 2007, 09:31 PM
More switchers, switchers, and switchers!!! :) :cool: :D

You should start seeing the virtuous cycle ramp up. Apple is being viewed as the "it" company, which will encourage more people to take a risk and buy an iPhone and Mac (2-3 years ago it was still a leap of faith for people to switch). As these sales ramp up, more developers will switch to developing for the OS X platform (both Mac and iPhone). With more developers there will be more applications attracting more buyers. And the cycle will continue to ramp up.

Random Ping
Oct 22, 2007, 09:42 PM
I remember that many people doubted that report that 10% of iPhone were unlocked (I didn't!). By Apples own numbers then they are now estimating ~18%!

The operative word is the "intention" to unlock. It isn't clear how many actually unlocked.

Still, I think that by next year, with US, Europe, and Asia markets all selling iPhones, full iPhone SDKs in the hands of developers for ~8 months, WWDC 08 which will probably have had a huge iPhone focus, Apple will be selling huge numbers of phones. I think the market is going to be fundamentally different by this time next year.

Analog Kid
Oct 22, 2007, 09:52 PM
I'm glad to see the Mac numbers going up. News like this combined with general outrage over Vista is a good combination for attacking the home market.
I should deffinetly get apple stocks!!
I think you're using the wrong verb tense... Maybe you meant "should definitely have gotten"?

Revenue deferral will most likely help balance out a few potential "not-so-great" quarters in the future (if that is possible) by spreading the loot from stellar quarters (like the current one) evenly over a longer period of time.

Bottomline: Last quarter was actually much better than what the top-level numbers in the earning release says. It will be interesting to hear the questions from analysts in the conference call.
Others have commented on the fact that Apple had announced that they'd be treating iPhone and :apple:TV as subscription revenue over 2 years. The rest of what you're saying though is correct. Recurring revenue like this will greatly smooth Apple's numbers quarter to quarter.
maybe some people don't like seeing how much profit Apple are making on us...

or maybe some people don't want the mac market-share to grow so much, since the most used OS, is the one thats targeted most by hackers. And with higher productions volumes, less quality seems to come through..
It's like farting in a crowded elevator. People vote negative just to see everyone else go on and on about who could have done it and why. Just ignore it...
Rocketman has a point, but keep in mind that the cash doesn't just sit there... Apple can (and does) invest it and make money off of it. Just think of what 15 billion in the bank will get in interest ;)
Apple's not an investment bank. If they really thought they could do better by hoarding cash and generating interest then we should all worry about the future of their product line.

iMartini
Oct 22, 2007, 09:53 PM
Plus next quarter will include leopard numbers as well.......holy crap it's gonna be huge....

Not to mention the holiday shopping season... Yikes.

phillipjfry
Oct 22, 2007, 09:57 PM
It's good to see some nice numbers from Apple, but what is "sandbagging"? Does it mean they will basically take a hit on the next quarter? :confused:

Yeah, great. That way every little teenie-bopper and their mom can go to the mall, grocery store, and restaurant, with their iPhone Nano glued to the side of their head and annoy the rest of the properly educated world, who would never air their dirty laundry in public, about how their husband doesn't hit her G-Spot right, or how they're SO upset that they only got a Gucci bag instead of a Luis Vuitton bag, or how they got a yeast infection from their pool boy, Ernesto, on and on and on, listening to the same friggin' psycho mumbo jumbo that we've all been subjected to by being forced to listen to the conversation since they're talking louder than a leaf blower. Get a life, nouveaux riche! :eek: Yes, I went there ;)

We must hang out at the same grocery store.

sananda
Oct 22, 2007, 10:05 PM
The operative word is the "intention" to unlock. It isn't clear how many actually unlocked.



of course it isn't proved that 250,000 are unlocked. but that figure must be iphones sold minus iphones subscribed to at&t, so unless they are just sitting around doing nothing it is likely that they are unlocked.

anyway the operative word isn't intention. apple have no idea of what is in the minds of those that bought iphones and haven't subscribed to at&t. they can only make some assumptions.

Agathon
Oct 22, 2007, 10:30 PM
At this pace, they'll be bigger than Microsoft by the end of 2009 (I actually have a bottle of champagne set aside for that day). I'm looking forward to seeing the word "beleagured" used whenever Microsoft is mentioned.

If that day comes, I will take the day off and spend it trolling and crowing at Windows idiots on the internet. Now that would be some fun...

BackInTheSaddle
Oct 22, 2007, 10:38 PM
At this pace, they'll be bigger than Microsoft by the end of 2009 (I actually have a bottle of champagne set aside for that day). I'm looking forward to seeing the word "beleagured" used whenever Microsoft is mentioned.

Just for a point of reference, I think Dell has about $10B cash on hand, and Microsoft is around $29B. Since Dell now has less cash than Apple, maybe the right thing to do would be to liquidate Dell and return the funds to their shareholders (right Michael? LOL)...

scu
Oct 23, 2007, 12:39 AM
aapl is still cheap:)

weezer160
Oct 23, 2007, 12:49 AM
still a way to go before they hit the value of google's stock

DMann
Oct 23, 2007, 01:05 AM
still a way to go before they hit the value of google's stock

True, but they are most certainly on the right track.....

MacFly123
Oct 23, 2007, 01:31 AM
With five more quarter before the end of 2008, they'd be closer to 7 million at the current pace. But that doesn't account for the international launches that are just around the corner. Their potential market is about to get significantly bigger, and the sales numbers will certainly reflect that going forward.

Not to mention, they will come out with iPhone II before then :D

grovertdog
Oct 23, 2007, 01:42 AM
still a way to go before they hit the value of google's stock

ehhmm. So what?

Apples vs Oranges.:) Magnitude of market capitalization is tantamount to meaningless.

DMann
Oct 23, 2007, 02:00 AM
Not to mention, they will come out with iPhone II before then :D

Macworld Expo 2008.................. it could happen.....

Rocksaurus
Oct 23, 2007, 02:08 AM
Agressively priced = low margins. Apple doesn't do low margins. Apple doesn't do "hot swappable" component machines. Games made exclusively for Mac tend to quickly become old games because the makers don't generate the same kind of revenue they would get for Windows or Windows/Mac games. We went through this before with Apple, maybe before you were born.

I guess you missed the part where I said "Sorry I forgot who I was talking about". Of course Apple will stick to their high margins instead of gunning for some marketshare. I was just dreaming aloud.

Uragon
Oct 23, 2007, 02:46 AM
......this also means more law suits to follow.... those lawyers must be drooling too...

cheers to everyone....(holding beer)

macus3r
Oct 23, 2007, 03:16 AM
Apple's not an investment bank. If they really thought they could do better by hoarding cash and generating interest then we should all worry about the future of their product line.

Straight from the Q307 10-Q

Note 2 – Financial Instruments

Cash, Cash Equivalents and Short-Term Investments
The following table summarizes the fair value of the Company’s cash and available-for-sale securities held in its short-term investment portfolio, recorded as cash and cash equivalents or short-term investments as of June 30, 2007, and September 30, 2006 (in millions):

blah blah stuff goes here

The Company’s U.S. Corporate securities consist primarily of commercial paper, certificates of deposit, time deposits, and corporate debt securities. Foreign securities consist primarily of foreign commercial paper issued by foreign companies, and certificates of deposit and time deposits with foreign institutions, most of which are denominated in U.S. dollars. As of June 30, 2007 and September 30, 2006, approximately $2.1 billion and $921 million, respectively, of the Company’s short-term investments had underlying maturities ranging from one to five years. The remaining short-term investments had maturities less than 12 months.

The gross and net unrealized losses on the Company’s investment portfolio were not significant as of June 30, 2007 and September 30, 2006. The unrealized losses on the Company’s investments in U.S. Treasury and Agency securities, U.S. corporate securities, and foreign securities were caused primarily by changes in interest rates. The Company typically invests in highly rated securities with low probabilities of default. The Company’s investment policy requires investments to be rated single-A or better. Therefore, the Company considers the declines to be temporary in nature. As of June 30, 2007, the Company does not consider the investments to be other-than-temporarily impaired.

Market values were determined for each individual security in the investment portfolio. When evaluating the investments for other-than-temporary impairment, the Company reviews factors such as the length of time and extent to which fair value has been below cost basis, the financial condition of the issuer, and the Company’s ability and intent to hold the investment for a period of time, which may be sufficient for anticipated recovery in market value.

LINKY LINKYYYYYY (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=107357&p=irol-SECText&TEXT=aHR0cDovL2NjYm4uMTBrd2l6YXJkLmNvbS94bWwvZmlsaW5nLnhtbD9yZXBvPXRlbmsmaXBhZ2U9NTA5NDg5MyZkb2M9MSZ udW09Nw%3d%3d)

macus3r
Oct 23, 2007, 03:31 AM
I might add:

Any smart business owner, whether large, mid-sized, or even small, with cash on hand available for reinvestment (other than a hard asset such as real estate or office purchases) would probably do the same thing on a much smaller scale.

Timed investments such as Certificate of Deposits (at the small business level) are great ways to keep grubby hands from out of the pot and kept away for safe-keeping and interest earning.

say you've made around $20K by the time you've squared off all your debts

you hit up your bank and buy 10 CDs at 1K each, with varying maturities...

2 that are 6-9 month, 2 that are 1-2 year, 2 that are 2-3, and 4 that are 3-5.

you've got a nicely staggered cash investment. 10K locked away, 10K on hand.

Your investments might just help you out when you're in dire straits or a pleasant surprise when things are going well and just in time for other investment opportunities.

most small business owners completely skip this notion (or simply don't know of it), instead wanting to pocket the cash and hit up vegas or get that rolex (or do both?).

time value of money might do the trick though.

watch your cents...

Mac Kiwi
Oct 23, 2007, 04:23 AM
That news {report} is just brilliant......I can still remember when we got Motorola Imac updates with an extra 100mhz :D...

Evangelion
Oct 23, 2007, 05:09 AM
33% margins... and yet the Leopard Edu pricing is almost doubled.

WAY TO GO $TEVE!

Leopard is still available at lower price in college-bookstores and such. Only place where they increased the edu-pricing is the Apple online-store.

In short: quit your whining.

goodcow
Oct 23, 2007, 05:22 AM
Leopard is still available at lower price in college-bookstores and such. Only place where they increased the edu-pricing is the Apple online-store.

In short: quit your whining.

I work at the City University of New York, which has 100,000+ students easily, spread over some 17 or so campuses. Even though we have a "custom" Apple store, it's still $116. Even though I'm the one who gets all the purchase order quotes for my dept. from our state Apple rep, it's still $116.

The new Edu pricing is not consistent, and is just pure greed.

Evangelion
Oct 23, 2007, 05:33 AM
The new Edu pricing is not consistent, and is just pure greed.

Well, FWIW, they are not required to offer any kind of discount at all. You CAN still afford Leopard. If you don't.... well, what's wrong with Tiger?

Bonte
Oct 23, 2007, 06:01 AM
still a way to go before they hit the value of google's stock

Apple already bigger than Google and together they top Microcrap. :)

Apple
$ 151,630,604,760

Google
$ 151,560,325,750

Microsoft
$ 286,847,453,520

http://quotes.nasdaq.com/quote... (http://quotes.nasdaq.com/quote.dll?mode=stock&page=multi&symbol=AAPL&symbol=YHOO&symbol=GOOG&symbol=MSFT&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&selected=AAPL&FormType=&kind=&Leap=&mkttype=&sel=multi&userinput=&x=22&y=10)

Queso
Oct 23, 2007, 06:07 AM
Apple already bigger than Google and together they top Microcrap. :)
For some reason the NASDAQ site always shows the Google market cap wrong. GOOG is actually worth US$203.1bn.

Source (http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AGOOG)

dogtanian
Oct 23, 2007, 06:14 AM
Well, FWIW, they are not required to offer any kind of discount at all. You CAN still afford Leopard. If you don't.... well, what's wrong with Tiger?

I'm sorry but people are allowed to be irritated by Apple's sales practices. People are angry that Apple supported education for so long but has been bumping up prices recently. When they hear of Apples profits going through the roof, they rightly think this is unfair.

Don't be so blindly defensive of Apple's actions. Students want to enjoy Leopard too, and unfortunately, means not having quite so big a budget to spend on Apples products. Some students may have been saving a portion for Leopard and now cannot afford it at the new virtually full price.

Queso
Oct 23, 2007, 06:21 AM
Don't be so blindly defensive of Apple's actions. Students want to enjoy Leopard too, and unfortunately, means not having quite so big a budget to spend on Apples products. Some students may have been saving a portion for Leopard and now cannot afford it at the new virtually full price.
There are plenty of non-students too who want to enjoy Leopard but can't afford it. Luckily Tiger isn't suddenly going to stop working on Saturday morning, so these people have a choice of whether they purchase or not.

Nobody is entitled to Leopard, not even students. You either buy it or you don't.

dogtanian
Oct 23, 2007, 06:32 AM
I should mention that I'm actually not a student by the way! lol.

I would never suggest people 'deserve' this that or the other and I wholly agree that no-one is entitled to have Leopard, but at the same time, it's not a blessing from the gods we're talking about (Although you'd think that way with some on this site :rolleyes:! Its a new OS release, that has been offered to students (as Apple has been so keen on education for so many years) at a discounted rate because they know that if they get them there, they can keep them as loyal users, and maybe because Education is important. I think it was a great strategy and Apple could easily afford to continue the lower price with minimal impact to profit margins both long and short term.

CashGap
Oct 23, 2007, 06:50 AM
"People are angry that Apple supported education for so long but has been bumping up prices recently. When they hear of Apples profits going through the roof, they rightly think this is unfair."

Apple CUSTOMERS subsidized Apple education sales. And they are wrong to think it is unfair, they are right to have a preference that Apple return to the old way. Remember, the most common student response has been "One penny over $69 and I'll steal it". Not exactly a segment that can claim the moral high ground! But 90% are fresh off someone else's gravy train (10%... wasn't referring to you, don't post your tale of self-sufficient woe) and believe they deserve everything at whatever price they believe fair based on the chapter and a half of economics they read before the dropped the class last term.

"Well, FWIW, they are not required to offer any kind of discount at all."

See prior posts and threads. By virtue of sitting on the sidelines of the economy, students believe they deserve a subsidy. Apple offered it in the past so they should be required to in the future. Kind of reminds us why we aren't supposed to feed the bears in national parks. They'll come to expect it and get quite rowdy if we stop!

goosnarrggh
Oct 23, 2007, 07:14 AM
Not to mention, they will come out with iPhone II before then :D

A little nostalgic part of me kinda wants to see an iPhone ][.

edesignuk
Oct 23, 2007, 07:37 AM
No doubt they're having at fine time of it at head office, very nice figures indeed.

With regard to student discounts, it doesn't really surprise me. We all know how greedy Apple have become, look at the iPhone exclusivity and revenue deals for example.

Quality control has gone down the pan, no doubt saving a few $$$$.

But hey, they're making a fortune and selling more than ever. Why should they care? Right?

ibwb
Oct 23, 2007, 07:38 AM
For some reason the NASDAQ site always shows the Google market cap wrong. GOOG is actually worth US$203.1bn.

Source (http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AGOOG)

For those who are curious, the value on the NASDAQ site is the aggregate value of Google Class A common stock -- which is the stock represented by the GOOG ticker symbol. The missing value is in Google Class B common stock.

milo
Oct 23, 2007, 08:18 AM
10 million iPhones *IN* 2008, or 10 million iPhones by the end of 2008? I've seen this reported differently in different places.

What specifically did they say in the call? Anyone know where in the conference call this statement is?

iMartini
Oct 23, 2007, 08:27 AM
Anybody else notice a striking resemblance between Apple's stock performance and Al Gore's global warming chart? :)

http://www.czerniec.com/2007/04/27/an-inconvenient-truth.jpg

dogtanian
Oct 23, 2007, 08:38 AM
Apple CUSTOMERS subsidized Apple education sales. And they are wrong to think it is unfair, they are right to have a preference that Apple return to the old way. Remember, the most common student response has been "One penny over $69 and I'll steal it". Not exactly a segment that can claim the moral high ground! But 90% are fresh off someone else's gravy train (10%... wasn't referring to you, don't post your tale of self-sufficient woe) and believe they deserve everything at whatever price they believe fair based on the chapter and a half of economics they read before the dropped the class last term.

"Well, FWIW, they are not required to offer any kind of discount at all."

See prior posts and threads. By virtue of sitting on the sidelines of the economy, students believe they deserve a subsidy. Apple offered it in the past so they should be required to in the future. Kind of reminds us why we aren't supposed to feed the bears in national parks. They'll come to expect it and get quite rowdy if we stop!

You have an incredibly opinionated view of students of which a large proportion on this forum would be offended by suggesting that they would "immediately steal it if its a penny more" and make judgements based on their poor knowledge on economics because they can only be bothered to read a chapter and a half and then "drop-out" of classes.

I'd also like to suggest that Apple customers in no way directly (Or indirectly) are paying for the subsidies, that sounds like British tabloid economics to me. Shareholders would end losing out the most I would have thought.

I'm not trying to claim any ground let alone the 'moral' one I assure you! Just defending students as I was one.

yoyon8
Oct 23, 2007, 08:40 AM
I should mention that I'm actually not a student by the way! lol.

I would never suggest people 'deserve' this that or the other and I wholly agree that no-one is entitled to have Leopard, but at the same time, it's not a blessing from the gods we're talking about (Although you'd think that way with some on this site :rolleyes:! Its a new OS release, that has been offered to students (as Apple has been so KEEN on education for so many years) at a discounted rate because they know that if they get them there, they can keep them as loyal users, and maybe because Education is important. I think it was a great strategy and Apple could easily afford to continue the lower price with minimal impact to profit margins both long and short term.

What keen are you referring to?

1 a: having a fine edge or point : sharp b: affecting one as if by cutting <keen sarcasm> c: pungent to the sense <a keen scent>
2 a (1): showing a quick and ardent responsiveness : enthusiastic <a keen swimmer> (2): eager <was keen to begin> bof emotion or feeling : intense <the keen delight in the chase F. W. Maitland>
3 a: intellectually alert : having or characteristic of a quick penetrating mind <a keen student> <a keen awareness of the problem>; also : shrewdly astute b: sharply contested <keen debate> c: extremely sensitive in perception <keen eyes>
4: wonderful, excellent

dogtanian
Oct 23, 2007, 08:51 AM
2 (2) would be the most correct definition in this context I believe. :)

macridah
Oct 23, 2007, 09:07 AM
Nice. I making an nice profit on just todays gain ... enough to buy a macbook. I will help out my stock further the xmas season, for sure.

imacdaddy
Oct 23, 2007, 09:10 AM
Mac Pro + ACD is where my money is going. Will it be Q407 or Q108? C'mon Apple, bring out the new Mac Pros already!!!

Small White Car
Oct 23, 2007, 10:18 AM
Some students may have been saving a portion for Leopard and now cannot afford it at the new virtually full price.

$69 is "virtually full price?" What more do you want? Would $49 be cheap enough? $29?

And if a particular school isn't making that price available to their students, well they should complain to the school, not Apple.

dogtanian
Oct 23, 2007, 11:04 AM
Ah no I was referring to the amended Education price for OS X being 75 or $116. From the reports it would seem that it's not always being reduced at the Uni/College bookstores due to the prices offered by Apple to the campus via the Apple reps.
I think it should be consistent whatever Apple do with their pricing.

freddiecable
Oct 23, 2007, 11:07 AM
I second that! A 2.5" widescreen iPhone nano - as slim as iPod Touch = drool :)

I agree, Apple needs a bare bones $200 or less cheap iPhone. Call nano if you want. That would be a huge hit. I would buy the regular iPhone for me and the nano to my wife since she's not so much into gadgets. but seriously Apple need to address these folks that do not want to, for example get a family plan and have to buy 4 iPhones at $400 each, That's crazy. Bring a cheap version for the kids and wife or husband, etc.:D

ikir
Oct 23, 2007, 11:28 AM
33% margins... and yet the Leopard Edu pricing is almost doubled.

WAY TO GO $TEVE!

So? Buy a PC then-. Apple still makes best computers with the best OS, and you pay the right price. If the right price is 33% of margin... good for them and also for use. If Apple is ok, we are ok as a comunity. I come from Amiga world i know what does it mean having the main company without money.


I really hates these sort of comments. Check the margin of a crap Sony Vaio. They sells crap and have higher margin.

Way to go goodcow.

gwangung
Oct 23, 2007, 11:49 AM
So? Buy a PC then-. Apple still makes best computers with the best OS, and you pay the right price. If the right price is 33% of margin... good for them and also for use. If Apple is ok, we are ok as a comunity. I come from Amiga world i know what does it mean having the main company without money.


I really hates these sort of comments. Check the margin of a crap Sony Vaio. They sells crap and have higher margin.

Way to go goodcow.

No kidding.

Check out other manufacturers, other industries. 33% IS ON THE LOW END. (And no brownie points for people who mix up margins with profit).

One reason why a lot of PC makers died or got out of the market was that they tried to survive on razor thin margins. Well, they found out that they couldn't.

Since that's the case, blathering on about "fat" margins, or cutting margins for marketshare doesn't make a whole lot of economic sense since it proved disastrous for other companies. There has to be another tactic to go along with that, if you want Apple to prosper.

Diatribe
Oct 23, 2007, 04:18 PM
God, how I hate Apple for having locked the iPhone. For everyone living in any other than the featured countries this means no iPhone.

I sure hope the French iPhone won't be that hard to get or expensive.

jlbrown23
Oct 23, 2007, 04:25 PM
With the surge in stock price today, Apple has a larger Market Cap than IBM. That's right, BIGGER than IBM! And they passed Intel today too. Quite a ride Apple has been on lately, and their newfound willingness to let the Touch/iPhone realize their potential(a pocket Mac - it is to Blackberrys what OS7 was to Win 3.1)) in addition to the surging Mac sales make it look like the best is still around the corner.

At the end of the day I don't care all that much who is worth more, I'm just glad to see a healthy Apple guarantee that I still get to use Mac OS for years in to the future(who knows, maybe they'll even bring back Macs where I work...). But for the part of me that has been a Mac fan since I first laid eyes on one in 1984, it does seem like it has been a long time coming.

A collective toast for Mac fans everywhere!

Evangelion
Oct 24, 2007, 02:29 AM
I'm sorry but people are allowed to be irritated by Apple's sales practices. People are angry that Apple supported education for so long but has been bumping up prices recently. When they hear of Apples profits going through the roof, they rightly think this is unfair.

"unfair"? How exactly? Is it "unfair" that students get a smaller discount than before? Why exactly? Why would $69 be OK, but $109 or $119 would NOT be OK? the price-difference is about 50 bucks, hardly earth-shattering. That should be doable to even students. And hell, since they already bought a computer that cost over $1000 bucks, suddenly asking for 50 bucks more for totally optional OS-upgrade is "unfair"?

Don't be so blindly defensive of Apple's actions. Students want to enjoy Leopard too

Are they not allowed to buy Leopard?

Some students may have been saving a portion for Leopard and now cannot afford it at the new virtually full price.

So seventy bucks would be 100% doable and perfectly OK, but paying 50 bucks more is totally undoable? Besides, I HAVE seen reports that Leopard is available for under $100 in some schools.

rog
Oct 24, 2007, 10:00 PM
Apple didn't sell as many iPods as expected. I expect them to cease operations any day now. Look for stock prices to drop below $1 by the end of the month.

Analog Kid
Oct 25, 2007, 01:53 AM
I might add:

Any smart business owner, whether large, mid-sized, or even small, with cash on hand available for reinvestment (other than a hard asset such as real estate or office purchases) would probably do the same thing on a much smaller scale.

Timed investments such as Certificate of Deposits (at the small business level) are great ways to keep grubby hands from out of the pot and kept away for safe-keeping and interest earning.

say you've made around $20K by the time you've squared off all your debts

you hit up your bank and buy 10 CDs at 1K each, with varying maturities...

2 that are 6-9 month, 2 that are 1-2 year, 2 that are 2-3, and 4 that are 3-5.

you've got a nicely staggered cash investment. 10K locked away, 10K on hand.

Your investments might just help you out when you're in dire straits or a pleasant surprise when things are going well and just in time for other investment opportunities.

most small business owners completely skip this notion (or simply don't know of it), instead wanting to pocket the cash and hit up vegas or get that rolex (or do both?).

time value of money might do the trick though.

watch your cents...
Are you going to make your money work for you while you're evaluating how to invest it in your own business? Sure.

My point was that having $15billion on hand is not a long term strategy. Apple is not an investment bank. If they think they can make a better return on that $15billion by investing it or sticking it in a CD, then they're doing a disservice to their shareholders by wasting their money making products.

Too much cash and short term investment on the balance sheet is not a good sign to investors. It's an indication that the company doesn't know how to grow their business. Apple is forgiven this, because the growth has been so rapid recently that they haven't had time to plan and because they do leverage it towards reducing supply costs. At some point, Apple needs to spend it though-- either on acquisitions or internal infrastructure growth.