Speakers and hifi discussion (split)

[RevToTheRedline]

Mmmm Bang & Olufsen... When you thought Bose was overpriced....

Sometimes money is the only measure of performance for some people, but the smart ones know better.

[Killyp]

Mmmm Bang & Olufsen... When you thought Bose was overpriced....

Sometimes money is the only measure of performance for some people, but the smart ones know better.

Bose and B&O are COMPLETELY different.

B&O make the best TVs by far on the market, no denying that. Their top-of-the-range loudspeakers are incredible, makes the competition look incredibly overpriced and, well, not all that impressive.

I'll admit, the BeoLab 4s I own aren't exactly all that great value. For £900, you can get much more impressive speaker/amp combos from other brands. However, as computer speakers they are almost flawless, and I won them, so I'm not going to complain. I wouldn't use them as main hifi speakers, but for what I use them for, they're great.

If you want to be seriously impressed, I suggest you have a listen to some BeoLab 5s, 9s or 3s. Their earphones are also pretty darn impressive, and their TVs produce the best picture of any TV on the market, with sound to match.

[M3G4]

Bose and B&O are COMPLETELY different.

B&O make the best TVs by far on the market, no denying that. Their top-of-the-range loudspeakers are incredible, makes the competition look incredibly overpriced and, well, not all that impressive.

I'll admit, the BeoLab 4s I own aren't exactly all that great value. For £900, you can get much more impressive speaker/amp combos from other brands. However, as computer speakers they are almost flawless, and I won them, so I'm not going to complain. I wouldn't use them as main hifi speakers, but for what I use them for, they're great.

If you want to be seriously impressed, I suggest you have a listen to some BeoLab 5s, 9s or 3s. Their earphones are also pretty darn impressive, and their TVs produce the best picture of any TV on the market, with sound to match.

B&O? Quality?

LOL. ;)

[RevToTheRedline]

B&O? Quality?

LOL. ;)

Thats what I was about to say, I have never heard anyone talk about B&O TV's in the same sentence as "the best"

They are literally a non existent name in the television world.

[Tucom]

They're kinda purty in real life. I might get some different colours, each side of the pyramid is a separate cover, so you can mix and match. Black, dark grey, red and blue are the colours...

killyp, how do those speakers sound man? I've been wondering what the sound quality on those are. Comparable to your B&W's? I believe I read some where that you owned some B&W's :D



Peace

[Shotglass]

B&O? Quality?

LOL. ;)Now you're really hurting him. :D

Seriously though, if I may jump in here and defend him - I had the chance to compare a friend's 10k € custom built speakers+ Luxman amps and the whole shizzle to a pair of BeoLab 5s on a BeoSound 9000. Trust me, B&O equals Quality. They may be way over priced, but don't ever underestimate their products.

[bartelby]

B&O make the best TVs by far on the market, no denying that.
Their top-of-the-range loudspeakers are incredible, makes the competition look incredibly overpriced and, well, not all that impressive.



Loewe make better TVs than B&O.

B&Os top of the range speakers are surpassed in every way by some cheaper speakers by different companies.

B&O are over-priced and WAY over-rated.

[Shotglass]

They are literally a non existent name in the television world.Apple isn't too well known around here, either. And does that say anything about the company itself?

[Killyp]

I could have agreed with most of what you're saying 6 or so years ago, but things have changed, hugely. B&O went very downhill in the late 80s through to the early 2000's, until they released the BL5s.

B&O? Quality?

LOL. ;)

You've obviously never owned any B&O. You will find nothing on the market as well built, thought out, designed and executed as some of their stuff.

Thats what I was about to say, I have never heard anyone talk about B&O TV's in the same sentence as "the best"

They are literally a non existent name in the television world.

I'm sorry but that's nonsense. Go to your nearest B&O dealer and look at the BeoVision 9. You will be amazed how ahead the picture is in comparison to other TVs.

killyp, how do those speakers sound man? I've been wondering what the sound quality on those are. Comparable to your B&W's? I believe I read some where that you owned some B&W's :D


Peace

Yeh, I've got some B&W DM7 mk2s with a crossover upgrade as well as some DM303s, DM601s3s, assorted studio monitors and some custom far-field monitors, and tbh, the B&Os are rubbish in comparison to everything else I've got. It's a shame, these are the weakest speakers in B&O's range by far, and don't represent what B&O can really do if they put all their R&D into it. I would never spend £900 on these speakers, but their top of the range speakers are just incredible, and wipe the floor with the B&W 800Ds.

Loewe make better TVs than B&O.

B&Os top of the range speakers are surpassed in every way by some cheaper speakers by different companies.

B&O are over-priced and WAY over-rated.

No they are not, they are WAY underrated. You're telling me you've listened to BeoLab 5s and not been impressed?

Review 1 (http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/bang_olufsen_beolab_5.htm)

Disagree with that.

Having compared B&O's BL5s directly to B&W's 800D + 3 x Naim NAP 500s, and there was no comparison. The B&Os won easily, just better from every respect. We're talking about £52k worth of kit in comparison to £12k, the B&Os were just more musical, more effortless and powerful, even, showed a more rock-solid soundstage, sounded more focussed and controlled. The B&W system (which is a truly phenomenal system, and I love to bits) just sounded all over the place, and believe me, it was set up correctly.

B&O also just bought out the BeoLab 9, a smaller sibling to the BeoLab 5, and they're again, very impressive. Shame about some of their other speakers, which just aren't all that impressive and hence, overpriced in comparison.

[RevToTheRedline]

Loewe make better TVs than B&O.

B&Os top of the range speakers are surpassed in every way by some cheaper speakers by different companies.

B&O are over-priced and WAY over-rated.

Yep, I'm glad someone here isn't all mixed up in the B&O name to realize that. But I'm not gonna go on arguing about it anymore, cause there is no point. B&O is in the same boat as Bose and no denying it. Overpriced and overrated equipment.

[bartelby]

No they are not, they are WAY underrated. You're telling me you've listened to BeoLab 5s and not been impressed?

Review 1 (http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/bang_olufsen_beolab_5.htm)

Disagree with that.



I have heard them. For £12,000 you expect them to be good. But unfortunately they got beaten by Sonus Faber Auditor Ms. Neither me, my dad (who upgrades highend hi-fi stuff) nor a friend who deals in Hi-Fi equipment thought they sounded like they were worth the money.
No-one I know, who is in to high end audio rate B&O much for the money you spend.

[Killyp]

The problem in my eyes is that B&O's most popular products tend to be the ones which are more lookers than performers. Not that there's anything 'wrong ' with that, as a lot of people obviously prefer that kind of thing.

However, because of this, their higher performance speakers and kit suffers. B&O dealers tend to set up in-store kit with the appearance in mind, and generally don't think about the performance impact by placing such and such speaker here, or matching this CD player with that pair of speakers. As a result, what can be truly fantastic kit actually ends up sounding pretty mediocre. Having heard BL5s set up in a theatre, next to a pair of B&W 800Ds, Linn Artikulats (which sounded pretty dull to my ears), Wilson Watt Puppy and JM Focal Utopias, all the passive speakers being driven by the same arrangement of Naim amps. Nothing 'went' as well as the B&Os, or indeed seemed as spacious and airy. Bass power and extension like you wouldn't imagine as well...

[ebouwman]

Yep, I'm glad someone here isn't all mixed up in the B&O name to realize that. But I'm not gonna go on arguing about it anymore, cause there is no point. B&O is in the same boat as Bose and no denying it. Overpriced and overrated equipment.

Bose is overpriced but they make some great stuff, like what i said before about the ANC headsets, they are amazing, but they are way more than the next leading brands, so in the end you have to ask do i pay a $800 for one thats pretty good, or do you pay 50% more to get the one thats amazing.

Overpriced? definately. Overrated? No.
I'm not sure about B&O though, never dealt with them.

[bartelby]

<B&O stuff>


I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. For the money there's better solutions out there. You're paying a huge premium for the name.

[Shotglass]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. For the money there's better solutions out there. You're paying a huge premium for the name.He didn't actually pay anything. He won them.

[Killyp]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. For the money there's better solutions out there. You're paying a huge premium for the name.

Some would say you're paying a huge premium for going Apple rather than PC. After all, you can build a much higher performance PC for a quarter of the price of a Mac, but you don't get half the stuff Mac users have come to love, but can't really list as a 'spec' or write on paper. It's the same with B&O, to me so much other gear just seems to lack a huge amount that the B&O has in it's favour. I have numerous other hifi systems, and a B&O seperates and now these computer speakers (including a few other B&O relics). None if it's got the overall finish of the B&O. Same with my Macs...

He didn't actually pay anything. He won them.

Exactly.

[ebouwman]

(mine's bigger)

;)

wow

He didn't actually pay anything. He won them.

Sounds like great value for the money then!!

[bartelby]

Some would say you're paying a huge premium for going Apple rather than PC. After all, you can build a much higher performance PC for a quarter of the price of a Mac, but you don't get half the stuff Mac users have come to love, but can't really list as a 'spec' or write on paper. It's the same with B&O, to me so much other gear just seems to lack a huge amount that the B&O has in it's favour. I have numerous other hifi systems, and a B&O seperates and now these computer speakers (including a few other B&O relics). None if it's got the overall finish of the B&O. Same with my Macs...



Not the same with Macs at all.
Mac OS will only run on Macs.

If Apple computers only ran windows I'd not buy them and I'd class them up there with B&O, BMW and Designer clothing.

CDs will play on any hifi.

[Mord]

Some would say you're paying a huge premium for going Apple rather than PC. After all, you can build a much higher performance PC for a quarter of the price of a Mac, but you don't get half the stuff Mac users have come to love, but can't really list as a 'spec' or write on paper. It's the same with B&O, to me so much other gear just seems to lack a huge amount that the B&O has in it's favour. I have numerous other hifi systems, and a B&O seperates and now these computer speakers (including a few other B&O relics). None if it's got the overall finish of the B&O. Same with my Macs...


Personally i'd rather go with a pair of these:


http://www.saturn-sound.com/images/celestion%20ditton%2044%20loudspeakers.jpg


What 60's technology hand build naff looking supremely awesome sounding speakers equate to in computer technology I have no idea, B&O has never particularly impressed me and their design has always struck me as without function and frankly rather ugly.

[Killyp]

Not the same with Macs at all.
Mac OS will only run on Macs.

If Apple computers only ran windows I'd not buy them and I'd class them up there with B&O, BMW and Designer clothing.

CDs will play on any hifi.

B&O will only do BeoLink, VisionClear, reliable remotes (no other company has mastered this like B&O), DataLink, motorized TVs (looks like a gimick, but it actually changes the way you set out your lounge, rather than everything being focussed around the TV).

There's a lot more to B&O than meets the eye. My B&O seperates does things no other system will do nowadays, and it's 20 years old.

[bartelby]

B&O will only do BeoLink, VisionClear, reliable remotes (no other company has mastered this like B&O), DataLink, motorized TVs (looks like a gimick, but it actually changes the way you set out your lounge, rather than everything being focussed around the TV).

There's a lot more to B&O than meets the eye. My B&O seperates does things no other system will do nowadays, and it's 20 years old.

But I only want to put a cd in the player and listen to music. What the hell do I want non-essential tricks for?

How many companies have you tried for remotes?

The more electronic crap you add into audio/visual stuff the more it decreases the quality of the output.

[M3G4]

You've obviously never owned any B&O. You will find nothing on the market as well built, thought out, designed and executed as some of their stuff.

I've demo-ed many a B&W systems (with a view to buying one), and I've also demo-ed the seperates kit you can get for the same money. Believe me when I say B&O is no way the be-all-and-end-all of sound quality. I had a listen to the 6 disc changer system and column speakers (I forgot their names) which all in all would fetch around £8,500. As soon as the guy fired up Prodigy's Their Law, I could tell that I was going to be so badly let down. What I hear when I put the CD into my modest £500 system is hard hitting defined music, with plenty of low-end clout along with a high end that could cut glass. What I heard from the B&O system was a flat, undefined and incredibly lacking sound - somewhat "clinical". The whole idea of speakers with their own active amps is a bit silly, and something usually only studio monitors adopt.

Not trying to be rude, but I hardly think a CD player that returns the disc to the position you originally put them in after you've finished playing them is desperately well built or thought out - it's a gimmick. I heard some pretty nice KEF speakers hooked up to some Musical Fidelity components and it literally blew everything I've ever heard out of the water. Effortlessly musical.

[Killyp]

I've demo-ed many a B&W systems (with a view to buying one), and I've also demo-ed the seperates kit you can get for the same money. Believe me when I say B&O is no way the be-all-and-end-all of sound quality. I had a listen to the 6 disc changer system and column speakers (I forgot their names) which all in all would fetch around £8,500. As soon as the guy fired up Prodigy's Their Law, I could tell that I was going to be so badly let down. What I hear when I put the CD into my modest £500 system is hard hitting defined music, with plenty of low-end clout along with a high end that could cut glass. What I heard from the B&O system was a flat, undefined and incredibly lacking sound - somewhat "clinical". The whole idea of speakers with their own active amps is a bit silly, and something usually only studio monitors adopt.

Not trying to be rude, but I hardly think a CD player that returns the disc to the position you originally put them in after you've finished playing them is desperately well built or thought out - it's a gimmick. I heard some pretty nice KEF speakers hooked up to some Musical Fidelity components and it literally blew everything I've ever heard out of the water. Effortlessly musical.

Yes, I know a lot of B&O's stuff can be quite disappointing, their column speakers in particular have never done anything for me sonically (although they work very very well in home theatre, as their maximum SPL is very high). But their newest speakers, BeoLab 3s, BeoLab 9s and BeoLab 5s are very impressive, especially the 9s and 5s, both of which punch way above their price and size, and are at last speakers that audiophiles will sit down and listen to and go 'wow' when set up properly.

As for the CD changer, it's beautifully built. None of my Cyrus kit comes any where near the build quality of my B&O kit. It may seem like a gimmick, but it's those little touches which help you realise that you're getting a 'complete' package, not a 'very good sounding, but rubbish at everything else' one-trick-pony system (of which I've had far too many).

Yes, B&W make some beautiful speakers, I own quite a few pairs of B&Ws, and they are all wonderful. Sadly, the B&O speakers I own aren't some of their better efforts. However, correctly set up, BeoLab 9s or 5s will easily compete with any other amplifier/speaker combination out there, which helps B&O get back into the world of proper hifi. To put it this way, every review I read of the BeoLab 9s recently (of which there were a lot) gave them 5 stars.

Maybe a moderator should merge those posts into a new discussion in the audio or community section.

I agree, I'd like to continue this discussion.

[M3G4]

Yes, I know a lot of B&O's stuff can be quite disappointing, their column speakers in particular have never done anything for me sonically (although they work very very well in home theatre, as their maximum SPL is very high). But their newest speakers, BeoLab 3s, BeoLab 9s and BeoLab 5s are very impressive, especially the 9s and 5s, both of which punch way above their price and size, and are at last speakers that audiophiles will sit down and listen to and go 'wow' when set up properly.

As for the CD changer, it's beautifully built. None of my Cyrus kit comes any where near the build quality of my B&O kit. It may seem like a gimmick, but it's those little touches which help you realise that you're getting a 'complete' package, not a 'very good sounding, but rubbish at everything else' one-trick-pony system (of which I've had far too many).

Yes, B&W make some beautiful speakers, I own quite a few pairs of B&Ws, and they are all wonderful. Sadly, the B&O speakers I own aren't some of their better efforts. However, correctly set up, BeoLab 9s or 5s will easily compete with any other amplifier/speaker combination out there, which helps B&O get back into the world of proper hifi. To put it this way, every review I read of the BeoLab 9s recently (of which there were a lot) gave them 5 stars.



I agree, I'd like to continue this discussion.

I'm sorry, but if I'm spending £2,000+ on a speaker system, it would not be on a B&O speaker system. It's flat, dull and lifeless. And spending £8,000 or so on their top of the range speaker is just silly. You really cannot compare B&O with proper audiophile equipment.

The idea of these "one trick ponies" as you put them is to provide the ultimate in sound quality - not to put your discs in the right place or percolate your coffee. You simply cannot pitch a B&O system alongside a well-research and expertly picked audiophile system - it'd lose on almost every count!

[Tucom]

A speaker having a flat characteristic is a damn good thing, you want the speaker to as flat as possible.

M3G4, have you personally listened to the systems aforementioned by killyp? If not, I suggest you go out and have a critical listen, then come back and base your judgement.



Peace

[Killyp]

I'm sorry, but if I'm spending £2,000+ on a speaker system, it would not be on a B&O speaker system. It's flat, dull and lifeless. And spending £8,000 or so on their top of the range speaker is just silly. You really cannot compare B&O with proper audiophile equipment.

The idea of these "one trick ponies" as you put them is to provide the ultimate in sound quality - not to put your discs in the right place or percolate your coffee. You simply cannot pitch a B&O system alongside a well-research and expertly picked audiophile system - it'd lose on almost every count!

You haven't listened to the B&O systems I'm talking about. The top B&O speakers are £11.5k, and sound like they should cost far more.

You simply can pitch a B&O system alongside a well-researched and expertly picked audiophile system. A lot of B&O systems would yes, but BeoLab 9s or BeoLab 5s alongside a BeoSound 9000 or BeoSound 4 would give any other kit serious issues when it comes to 'sound per pound'.

B&O have had bit of a turn-around. Their older speakers, such as the BeoLab 6000s can be easily outperformed by speakers of the same price from other manufacturers (although they are kinda remarkable for their size). However, since 2001 when the BeoLab 5s came out, and earlier this year when the BeoLab 9s came out, things have changed a lot. Sad thing is, people are still viewing B&O with the same frame of mind they would have years ago.


Before you judge B&O any further, have a listen to some correctly set up (I cannot emphasize this enough) BeoLab 5s or BeoLab 9s. You will be very pleasantly surprised.

[M3G4]

Like I said, I've heard plenty of B&O stuff and it's really nothing special. It's overhyped, just like Bose equipment. You can, and will, get a lot better for your hard earned money. It all depends on how important the looks are to you.

The only time you'll find a B&O system that has taken on a proper hi-fi and won is in the hi-fi magazines which everyone knows to take with a whole packet full of salt.

[Shotglass]

... just like Bose equipment.If you ever mention Bang & Olufsen and Bose in one sentence again, I will come to your house and slap you. :cool:

[ErikCLDR]

KillyP : B&O :: I myself : Land Rover

Hahaha.

I haven't really read much of this but not everybody wants to spend extreme money on speakers.

[Killyp]

Extreme money = £150,000 ;) Spending £10k on speakers is like spending £5k on a computer. Whether or not you like B&O is up to you, but you can't judge it until you've owned it.

Anyways, back to the setups, we haven't seen any pictures for at least one page...

[Killyp]

No, I'm pretty sure you can.


I'll judge a PC with Vista on it, despite me never owning Vista, I'll judge a Zune, despite me never owning one, I judges the Wii/Xbox 360/Ps3 before they were out...you have to judge things before you buy them, if you judge them worthwild, you buy 'em....if not, you don't

Yes, that's the case of Vista. However something like B&O, which is really radically different to other brands, is something you can't 'compare' because it's too different. I don't know any other brand who produces a decent hifi where you can simply put a CD in and press 'CD' to get your CD to play. Seems stupidly illogical...

[M3G4]

Yes, that's the case of Vista. However something like B&O, which is really radically different to other brands, is something you can't 'compare' because it's too different. I don't know any other brand who produces a decent hifi where you can simply put a CD in and press 'CD' to get your CD to play. Seems stupidly illogical...

AFAIK, NAD hifi seperates can when they're connected with the NAD-link.

[Killyp]

AFAIK, NAD hifi seperates can when they're connected with the NAD-link.

Yeh I know, my C350 is connected to the CD player and tuner like that (can't remember the models). The C300 doesn't support it though, which irritates me. It's going to be great for when I go to uni though, my planned setup is my B&W DM303s and NAD C300, which is enough to drive them loudish during parties etc... and it doesn't matter if it gets damaged.


NAD link doesn't work as well as B&O's DataLink though. They haven't planned it out as well, and two way communication seems very limited in comparison to the B&O. Plus the B&O way involves far less fuss.

With my B&O, I open the tray, pop a CD in, and nudge the tray. It closes the rest of the way, wakes up the amplifier into the right mode at the volume I've set it to come on to, and starts playing music. 10 minutes after the CD has ended, it switches off, meaning I can go to sleep listening to music.

And believe me, the BeoSystem 7000 is the last seperates system B&O made, and they did a fantastic job with it...