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View Full Version : Bill O'Reilly tops the cable news ratings again!


Waluigi
Sep 5, 2003, 07:24 PM
News just in from the The Drudge Report (http://www.drudgereport.com) (hence why I posted in current events), the latest cable news ratings as of 9/4 have the great Bill O'Reilly on top again:

CABLE NEWS RACE
THURSDAY, SEPT 4

FOX O'REILLY 1.6
CNN LARRY KING 1.4
FOX HANNITY/COLMES 1.1
FOX GRETA 1.0
FOX SHEP SMITH 1.0
FOX BRIT HUME 0.8
CNN AARON BROWN 0.7
CNN PAULA ZAHN 0.5
MSNBC SCARBOROUGH 0.2
MSNBC ABRAMS 0.2
MSNBC OLBERMANN 0.2


--Waluigi

wdlove
Sep 5, 2003, 07:34 PM
I enjoy listening to the Bill O'Reilly "Radio Factor," unable to watch his Cable show. Because of the high prices, have just have basic cable!

I am thinking about going to this months meetup group here in Boston!

http://billoreilly.meetup.com/

Kwyjibo
Sep 5, 2003, 07:44 PM
ok....drudge prints this every chance he gets its not news, its cool that your into reading drudge but this is like a weekly story ..don't get too excited...drudge is good but please don't make it your only news source you will miss certain sides of things

Waluigi
Sep 5, 2003, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by Kwyjibo
ok....drudge prints this every chance he gets its not news, its cool that your into reading drudge but this is like a weekly story ..don't get too excited...drudge is good but please don't make it your only news source you will miss certain sides of things

I know, Drudge does do this a few times a month. I do go to google news, and reuters too, but the drudge report is just so much more interesting, espically his radio show, with those ridiculous sound bites he plays!

--Waluigi

Kwyjibo
Sep 5, 2003, 08:24 PM
do you remember his tv show tho.. it got cancelled because he kept showing a dead fetus and ppl hated him for that....his ascension to fame was breaking the monica lewinsky story the night before the washington post reported it ....then he started getting millions of hits.

Waluigi
Sep 5, 2003, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by Kwyjibo
do you remember his tv show tho.. it got cancelled because he kept showing a dead fetus and ppl hated him for that....his ascension to fame was breaking the monica lewinsky story the night before the washington post reported it ....then he started getting millions of hits.

Unfortunately, I didn't know about the Drudge Report back then, in the day. I've seen Matt appear as a personality on MSNBC, and FOX NEWS though. He is really good, controversial yes, but very good. I hope some brave network tries his TV show again. Imagine if he had funny video clips to go along with all those sound bites (crazy hillary laugh, larry king saying 'drudge report', al sharpton saying 'we are the hip hop generation' while the song 'my neck my back' is playing in the background)!!

--Waluigi

Vector
Sep 5, 2003, 08:52 PM
Drudge is good, but sometimes he just posts random things for little reason that are not really newsworthy.

You should also read http://www.irna.ir/
http://english.pravda.ru/allnews_en.html
http://www.reuters.com/

Reuters provides far more stories than drudge since he mainly pushes out breaking new that he deems important. Pravda is a russian news service that gives a god perspective on asian news as well as world news (the above link takes you to the english version). The IRNA or Islamic Republic Newswire focuses mainly on news coming out of middle eastern countries, but it also talks about other news from around the world. I was going to suggest al-jazeera's english site, but it isn't that good as it is quite slanted whereas IRNA provides a less opinionated view of the same news.

I also skim the world news sections on yahoo sometimes as they have some stories that other services do not.

Flowbee
Sep 5, 2003, 10:05 PM
As I said in the other thread, I think the publicity surrounding the Al Franken book lawsuit is at least partially responsible for the ratings spike.

rainman::|:|
Sep 5, 2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Flowbee
As I said in the other thread, I think the publicity surrounding the Al Franken book lawsuit is at least partially responsible for the ratings spike.

i rather hope so... bill's views aren't in line with my own, to say the least. I do love that Franken assembled a team of researchers to dig up all of these statements over the years... can't wait to read it...

pnw

Vector
Sep 5, 2003, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Flowbee
As I said in the other thread, I think the publicity surrounding the Al Franken book lawsuit is at least partially responsible for the ratings spike.

Partially responsible, maybe, but o'reilly has been on the top of that list for a while now. He was winning in the ratings way before franken even announced his new book. O'Reilly wins every week in the ratings because there are no interesting personalities on the other news channels. He is good at being controversial and people watch him because they like his views and others watch because they want to see what he will say next and still others watch because they dislike him and want to see what else they disagree with him on.

RobVanDam
Sep 5, 2003, 11:30 PM
Vector, Scarborough has a pretty interesting perspective.

Being a former member of congress he understands how things work in Washington, he knows a good deal of people because of him serving in congress, and his opinions often make sense and are genuine. For example, even though he's conservative, he doesn't hesitate questioning the Bush's connections with Saudi Arabia.

Vector
Sep 5, 2003, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by RobVanDam
Vector, Scarborough has a pretty interesting perspective.

Being a former member of congress he understands how things work in Washington, he knows a good deal of people because of him serving in congress, and his opinions often make sense and are genuine. For example, even though he's conservative, he doesn't hesitate questioning the Bush's connections with Saudi Arabia.

I havn't had a chance to watch his whole show yet, but i did see it one day while switching channels and it didn't seem as dull as most of the others. Is it on msnbc?

krossfyter
Sep 5, 2003, 11:48 PM
wow im surprised no ones lashed out against bill o' reilly on this thread yet considering how many bill o reilly haters are out there especially on this board. impressive that this thread hasnt hit the cynical level yet. wow.
hah

3rdpath
Sep 5, 2003, 11:52 PM
o'reilly is popular...

so is macdonald's

both pander to indifferent consumers seeking quick tasteless satisfaction.

imho

krossfyter
Sep 6, 2003, 12:17 AM
congratulations 3rd path for being the first one to drop on that level. ;)

krossfyter
Sep 6, 2003, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by 3rdpath
o'reilly is popular...

so is macdonald's

both pander to indifferent consumers seeking quick tasteless satisfaction.

imho

i totally respect your opinion not trying to change it or knock it anyway. what news program would you consider to be the exact opposite of what you described? just curious.

Flowbee
Sep 6, 2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by Vector
Partially responsible, maybe, but o'reilly has been on the top of that list for a while now.

Well if that's the case, what's so newsworthy about him being on top of the ratings again?? The original post makes it sound like he's been out of the top spot recently.

For the record, I think O'Reilly's show is a big pile of stink with a turd on top.
:p

krossfyter
Sep 6, 2003, 12:31 AM
most of the people who knock bill o'reilly are usually liberals right? am i correct on that assesment?

Vector
Sep 6, 2003, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by Flowbee
Well if that's the case, what's so newsworthy about him being on top of the ratings again?? The original post makes it sound like he's been out of the top spot recently.

For the record, I think O'Reilly's show is a big pile of stink with a turd on top.
:p

Nothing. As it was noted earlier this is a weekly thing that drudge puts on his site and is not some new groundbreaking story. Drudge has been putting up the nielsen ratings for those shows for as long as i can remember and o'reilly is almost always at the top. The original poster was not aware that drudge does this every week.

jefhatfield
Sep 6, 2003, 01:08 AM
yikes, this sounds like a political thread

but i would NEVER put a political topic in the community section;)

Vector
Sep 6, 2003, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by krossfyter
most of the people who knock bill o'reilly are usually liberals right? am i correct on that assesment?

Yes, for the most part they are liberals. While o'reilly claims to be fair and balanced, he is far and balanced in the sense that he has both liberals and conservatives on his show to debate the topics. He claims that he is not a conservative and he has actually agreed with the liberals he has on from time to time, but his personal views are mostly conservative. I think the reasoon that he does not let himself be labeled as a conservative is because he likes to keep his options open and does not want his own views to be constrained by a single doctrine. This allows him to disagree with extreme conservatives (roy moore) without being seen as someone who is betraying ultra-conservative principles since he never claimed to follow them.

krossfyter
Sep 6, 2003, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by Vector
Yes, for the most part they are liberals. While o'reilly claims to be fair and balanced, he is far and balanced in the sense that he has both liberals and conservatives on his show to debate the topics. He claims that he is not a conservative and he has actually agreed with the liberals he has on from time to time, but his personal views are mostly conservative. I think the reasoon that he does not let himself be labeled as a conservative is because he likes to keep his options open and does not want his own views to be constrained by a single doctrine. This allows him to disagree with extreme conservatives (roy moore) without being seen as someone who is betraying ultra-conservative principles since he never claimed to follow them.
yeah i knew this thing would be moved.

i think bill o'reilly considers himself an independent. im not sure if he has more conservative views then liberal views... if anyone has any factual info on this please spit it out cause id like to see some verification on this in some form or another. i know a lot of people who usually are liberal say that bill is too conservative and vice versa conservative people say his too liberal. i love the controversy this dude stirs up. i think its interesting to have someone get jacked from both ends and still remain solid if you know what i mean! hah that was highly suggestive.

Waluigi
Sep 6, 2003, 04:29 PM
This is taken directly from BillOReilly.com:

2. Is Bill a Republican, Democrat, or what?

Bill is independent. He prefers to avoid political party labels and focus instead on the issues that matter. In Bill's first best-selling book, The O'Reilly Factor, he addresses this question as follows: "...You might be wondering if whether I'm conservative, liberal, libertarian, or exactly what... See, I don't want to fit any of those labels, because I believe that the truth doesn't have labels. When I see corruption, I try to expose it. When I see exploitation, I try to fight it. That's my political position."

Hope that clears things up.

--Waluigi

RobVanDam
Sep 6, 2003, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Vector
I havn't had a chance to watch his whole show yet, but i did see it one day while switching channels and it didn't seem as dull as most of the others. Is it on msnbc? http://www.msnbc.com/news/scarboroughcountry_front.asp

If ya couldn't tell from above he's on MSNBC, you can find the exact schedule at the site above.

wdlove
Sep 6, 2003, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by krossfyter
most of the people who knock bill o'reilly are usually liberals right? am i correct on that assesment?

Yes, I would agree that those that call themselves a Democrat and especially a Liberal would complain about Bill O'Reilly.

IJ Reilly
Sep 7, 2003, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by wdlove
Yes, I would agree that those that call themselves a Democrat and especially a Liberal would complain about Bill O'Reilly.

How about people who simply dislike arrogant blowhards masquerading as journalists?

Waluigi
Sep 7, 2003, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by IJ Reilly
How about people who simply dislike arrogant blowhards masquerading as journalists?

If Bill O'Reilly acted the same, but was coming from a far left position, I bet you would love him. Even if he just called himself a liberal, and said the exact same things in the exact same way, you'd like him! Again, stop taking cheap shots at The Great Bill O'Reilly!!

--Waluigi

IJ Reilly
Sep 7, 2003, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by Waluigi
If Bill O'Reilly acted the same, but was coming from a far left position, I bet you would love him. Even if he just called himself a liberal, and said the exact same things in the exact same way, you'd like him! Again, stop taking cheap shots at The Great Bill O'Reilly!!

--Waluigi

That is an extremely poor assumption. You have obviously been reduced to the weakest possible defense of the "great" Bill O'Reilly.

Mason
Sep 7, 2003, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by Waluigi
This is taken directly from BillOReilly.com:

2. Is Bill a Republican, Democrat, or what?

Bill is independent. He prefers to avoid political party labels and focus instead on the issues that matter. In Bill's first best-selling book, The O'Reilly Factor, he addresses this question as follows: "...You might be wondering if whether I'm conservative, liberal, libertarian, or exactly what... See, I don't want to fit any of those labels, because I believe that the truth doesn't have labels. When I see corruption, I try to expose it. When I see exploitation, I try to fight it. That's my political position."



Hope that clears things up.

--Waluigi

Actually, O'Reilly is a registered Republican, as Franken demonstrated in his book.

solvs
Sep 7, 2003, 01:53 AM
What about Chris Matthews?

I'm not sure what's funnier, him or Darrell Hammond's impression of him on Saturday Night Live.

So, what does that make me if I hate Bush AND Clinton?

A realist?

Waluigi
Sep 7, 2003, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by IJ Reilly
That is an extremely poor assumption. You have obviously been reduced to the weakest possible defense of the "great" Bill O'Reilly.

Obviously that statement hits so close to home, that you don't even have a good comeback! Face it, it isn't him you don't like, it is becasue he isn't a die hard liberal.

--Waluigi

Waluigi
Sep 7, 2003, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by Mason
Actually, O'Reilly is a registered Republican, as Franken demonstrated in his book.

Does Franken have any proof? Bill O'Reilly says he is an independent, and Al Franken says he is a registered republican.....I think I'll believe the credible, and relaible Bill O'Reilly in this one. Also, since Bill O'Reilly is a more commom name, it is possible that there is another Bill O'Reilly living in Long Island that is registered as a republican, and Franken could have just not said which Bill O'Reilly it is...the one on TV, or the engineer or the fireman or the school teacher, etc.

--Waluigi

Waluigi
Sep 7, 2003, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by solvs
What about Chris Matthews?

I'm not sure what's funnier, him or Darrell Hammond's impression of him on Saturday Night Live.



Darrell Hammond's impression of Chris Matthews, and his impression of Al Gore and his lock box are the funniest things on saturday night live since its glory days in the early 90's.

--Waluigi

mactastic
Sep 7, 2003, 09:12 AM
What about someone who used to like "The Great Bill O'Reilly" but now thinks he is an insulting boor, who can't carry on an arguement with someone he disagrees with without the use of shouting, belittling, and otherwise making an ass of himself? I really did like watching Bill - up until the Glick interview. That really was the beginning of the end for me. I guess in your view, thats the day I became a "die hard liberal"?

Sayhey
Sep 7, 2003, 09:52 AM
When did Bill get his name changed to include "The Great..."? I know the North Koreans like to do the same. Kim Il Sung was always "The Grand and Glorious...", but I didn't know Billy was a devotee of the methods of Stalinist cults. I guess all the shouting down and changing history got to him. ;)

Mason
Sep 7, 2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi
Does Franken have any proof? Bill O'Reilly says he is an independent, and Al Franken says he is a registered republican.....I think I'll believe the credible, and relaible Bill O'Reilly in this one. Also, since Bill O'Reilly is a more commom name, it is possible that there is another Bill O'Reilly living in Long Island that is registered as a republican, and Franken could have just not said which Bill O'Reilly it is...the one on TV, or the engineer or the fireman or the school teacher, etc.

--Waluigi

Franken has a photocopy of O'Reilly's voter registration sheet in which O'Reilly personally identifies himself as a Republican. He also states on the same sheet that his employer is "Inside Edition." You can look for yourself on page 75 of Franken's book.

So I guess your theory goes right out the window, eh?

IJ Reilly
Sep 7, 2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi
Obviously that statement hits so close to home, that you don't even have a good comeback! Face it, it isn't him you don't like, it is becasue he isn't a die hard liberal.

--Waluigi

A "good comeback" to a baseless accusation isn't necessary or even appropriate.

IJ Reilly
Sep 7, 2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Mason
Franken has a photocopy of O'Reilly's voter registration sheet in which O'Reilly personally identifies himself as a Republican. He also states on the same sheet that his employer is "Inside Edition." You can look for yourself on page 75 of Franken's book.

So I guess your theory goes right out the window, eh?

Well, Franken is barking up the wrong tree if he thinks O'Reilly's party registration is particularly relevant. Everyone is entitled to belong to a political party. What they are not entitled to do is claim to be a "fair and balanced" journalist and then make an interview as much about themselves as the interview subject. This may be entertainment (for some), but let's not deceive ourselves -- journalism it most certainly is not. FWIW, Larry King and Barbara Walters have much the same problem, which is why I don't waste my time with any of them.

Mason
Sep 7, 2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by IJ Reilly
Well, Franken is barking up the wrong tree if he thinks O'Reilly's party registration is particularly relevant. Everyone is entitled to belong to a political party. What they are not entitled to do is claim to be a "fair and balanced" journalist and then make an interview as much about themselves as the interview subject. This may be entertainment (for some), but let's not deceive ourselves -- journalism it most certainly is not. FWIW, Larry King and Barbara Walters have much the same problem, which is why I don't waste my time with any of them.

Franken's cite of this voter registration sheet is a response to a particular lie O'Reilly told. To understand why he brings this up it is necessary to read the pages preceeding the photocopy. Obviously, Franken's criticisms of O'Reilly are a lot more in-depth and poignant than merely mentioning that he happened to be a registered Republican.

Taft
Sep 7, 2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi
Obviously that statement hits so close to home, that you don't even have a good comeback! Face it, it isn't him you don't like, it is becasue he isn't a die hard liberal.

--Waluigi

You might as well have said, "Face it! I know your mind better than you do!" Quite presumptuous. Could I just as easily say, "Face it, you don't like him because he's a nice guy, you like him because he's a die hard conservative."

How do you like that?

Fact is, if you believe that people like IJ Reilly and myself have no other reason to hate O'Reilly other than the fact that he disagrees with us, then you must not have been listening. On other threads (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36952) we've given ample evidence of O'Reilly's pompous, arrogant bullying.

I don't like O'Reilly because I believe him to be a fraud, purporting to be nuetral when there is an obvious bias in both his statement and the way he treats his guests. His bullying and attitude, behavior and tactics in general are what I find most deplorable.

Bill O'Reilly is very entertaining and he provides something many Americans like to hear: an opinion that reinforces their own.

Heck, even the fact that he considers himself a moderate reinforces an opinion most Americans have of themselves. Through most of last decade, more Americans have reported themselves as moderates than either conservatives or liberals. Most people consider themselves moderate, regardless of what they really believe. And that is exactly what make O'Reilly's and FOX's campaign of "Fair and Balanced" so ingenious: it not only gives them a undeserved reputation for journalistic integrety, but it also allows their personalities to enjoy a undeserved common ground with the average American. By saying things the average American wants to hear, they command a powerful army of loyalists and therefor they cleanup in the ratings.

Let the cash flow to FOX.

Taft

krossfyter
Sep 7, 2003, 04:07 PM
has a so called independent ever gotten this popular for hosting a serious show on tv before?

maybe thats it. the guy is unique on cable news. he doesnt PUBLICLY pander to either side. He shows more conservative views then liberal so obviously people will label him a republican or a conservative... especially after the fact that he was or is registered as a republican.. if thats true or not. No one else in american cable news has been in the unique ideological, controversial position that O'Reilly is in i guess. its a unique mixture of a concept if you think about it.... wait lets have a guy who doesnt pander to liberal or conservative ideology, says his an independent, is registered as a republican to host a show in which he goes after anyone that he sees as being a propagandist a spinner or a liar. sounds unique to me. thats a winning formula obviously. so now that this guy is soo popular people who disagree with him (mainly liberals) are trying to tear him down. thats inevitable. why would the liberals just stand there and take it right? regardless of what you think of the o factor there is one thing that cant be denied about it... its uniqueness. it is about the money. not to minimize the work that o'reilly is trying to do but in the end it is still about the money. its the nature of our capatlist system. o'reilly is interesting to me and i will continue to wathc him even if i dont entirely agree with him. as for franken... to me his a cartoon... not to be taken seriously. hey my opinion may be absurd to you and thats fine. it is after all an opinion and im not forcing anyone esle to live by it. so be cool.

IJ Reilly
Sep 7, 2003, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Mason
Franken's cite of this voter registration sheet is a response to a particular lie O'Reilly told. To understand why he brings this up it is necessary to read the pages preceeding the photocopy. Obviously, Franken's criticisms of O'Reilly are a lot more in-depth and poignant than merely mentioning that he happened to be a registered Republican.

I presumed as much, but I suppose I just can't get too worked up over it. My objections to O'Reilly are on another basis.

I also have to agree with Taft's observations: "moderate" and "middle class" are the two ways most Americans like to think of themselves. It is disingenuous to call one's self moderate as cover for arguing from the far left or right.

Code101
Sep 7, 2003, 08:31 PM
Fox news is awesome! It is the only news channel that actually respects America. CNN (Clinton News Network) loves the UN over the US. On 9/11 CNN said thank God the UN wasn't hit. Fox News has so many more viewers than other networks. Why? Because people don't want to hear their country and President get bashed like you here on CNN and NPR. Fox News has the Flag on the screen 24/7

Bill Oreilly and Sean Hannity are some of the best there is. They stand up for their own country. They get to the facts. You wonder why Bill Oreilly has such high reviews? He is a good American who loves his country, that's why. The American people value that in a reporter. He doesn't allow spin like the Democrats do so often.

Waluigi
Sep 7, 2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Code101
Bill Oreilly and Sean Hannity are some of the best there is. They stand up for their own country. They get to the facts. You wonder why Bill Oreilly has such high reviews? He is a good American who loves his country, that's why. The American people value that in a reporter. He doesn't allow spin like the Democrats do so often.

NEVER lump Bill O'Reilly, a fair minded man, with Sean Hannity who just spits out Republican propaganda. For example, Sean Hannity was, and still is VERY critical of Bill Clinton for being a leader who committed a sin by having an affair. Yet, when Bill Bennett addmitted to gambleing away HUGE sums of money, Sean Hannity defended him to the death, and told Bennett off for appologizing for gambleing! Bill O'Reilly was very harsh on BOTH clinton, and bennett for each of their wrong doings! Hannity is a phoney liar, Bill O'Reilly is fair. Never make such awful asumptions.

--Waluigi

IJ Reilly
Sep 7, 2003, 09:38 PM
Please tell me this is satire. I feel like I've just fallen into the middle of "The Lazlo Letters."

Code101
Sep 7, 2003, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi
NEVER lump Bill O'Reilly, a fair minded man, with Sean Hannity who just spits out Republican propaganda. For example, Sean Hannity was, and still is VERY critical of Bill Clinton for being a leader who committed a sin by having an affair. Yet, when Bill Bennett addmitted to gambleing away HUGE sums of money, Sean Hannity defended him to the death, and told Bennett off for appologizing for gambleing! Bill O'Reilly was very harsh on BOTH clinton, and bennett for each of their wrong doings! Hannity is a phoney liar, Bill O'Reilly is fair. Never make such awful asumptions.

--Waluigi

I never said they were alike all the way, I am saying they are both my favorites. I don't 100% agree with Sean all the time but I do like him and think he is as good as Bill in different ways. They both make a good team!

Waluigi
Sep 7, 2003, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by Code101
I never said they were alike all the way, I am saying they are both my favorites. I don't 100% agree with Sean all the time but I do like him and think he is as good as Bill in different ways. They both make a good team!

OK, thanks for clairifying.

--Waluigi

Taft
Sep 7, 2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by Code101
Bill Oreilly and Sean Hannity are some of the best there is. They stand up for their own country. They get to the facts. You wonder why Bill Oreilly has such high reviews? He is a good American who loves his country, that's why. The American people value that in a reporter. He doesn't allow spin like the Democrats do so often.

Remember when Clinton was president? Remember how FOX News bashed Clinton? Were they being un-American and unpatriotic then???

Or is it only unpatriotic when the "liberal media" criticizes a conservative president?

I'm so sick of this line coming from the right: "the left is un-American, unpatriotic, giving comfort and aide to the enemy." IT'S CRAP!!!! BOTH SIDES criticize the president when they don't like what he is doing. When Clinton was president there was quite literally a right wing conspiracy against him. Politics is very dirty business and our congressmen, presidents, political advisors, etc., etc. all know how to play it.

Just because people are dissenting with the government doesn't make them unpatriotic. The first amendment gives us the right to free speech, even speech critical of our government. Even if people ARE being unpatriotic, it doesn't make their opinions any less valid than the "patriotic" crowd. Our constitution guarantees us ALL a voice.

Please stop spreading the anti-America FUD against the left wing. Those of us who ARE patriotic and love our country resent it.

And there are a *lot* of us liberals in that group.

Taft

michaello
Sep 8, 2003, 01:13 AM
Bill O'Reilly is getting more press than he deserves. He's like Geraldo Rivera. The guy is a moron with a bullhorn and not worth the attention he's getting.

Waluigi
Sep 8, 2003, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by michaello
Bill O'Reilly is getting more press than he deserves. He's like Geraldo Rivera. The guy is a moron with a bullhorn and not worth the attention he's getting.

Bill O'Reilly has written 2 number one books, with a third due out later this month. He is the host of the number one cable news program, and has a very successful start up radio program running against Rush Limbaugh's time slot! On top of that, he is a very gifted athlete, and graduated from Harvard University. He is also a good role model because he is honest about his flaws, and doesn't pretend to be perfect (read his book 'The O'Reilly Factor'). He is one of the most recognized names in television, and in journalism. With all that, of course he is getting a lot of publicity!

--Waluigi

michaello
Sep 8, 2003, 03:52 PM
Okay, here's a shortened bio for Geraldo Rivera:

“Host of numerous television specials. Member Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund; Puerto Rican Bar Association. Recipient: Smith fellowship, University of Pennsylvania, 1969; Won 7 Emmy Awards; 2 Robert F. Kennedy Awards; Peabody Award; Kennedy Journalism Award, 1973, 1975.”

Geraldo has also done some things, but that doesn't discount the fact that he’s Geraldo Rivera, the person who was thrown out of Iraq because he gave the position of U.S. troops. At least he won some journalism awards - including a PEABODY - which is more than Mr. O'Reilly can honestly claim.

And, I have to disagree. Bill O’Reilly is not a good role model. He is far from honest about his flaws (in fact, he lies all the time - or haven’t you read the Franken book?), he does pretend to be perfect (in that it’s his point of view or no point of view) - and, by the way, have you read “Those Who Trespass: A Novel of Murder and Television”?

Bill O’Reilly will be a punch line once this rash of publicity quickly wears off.

Sayhey
Sep 8, 2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi
Bill O'Reilly has written 2 number one books, with a third due out later this month. He is the host of the number one cable news program, and has a very successful start up radio program running against Rush Limbaugh's time slot! On top of that, he is a very gifted athlete, and graduated from Harvard University. He is also a good role model because he is honest about his flaws, and doesn't pretend to be perfect (read his book 'The O'Reilly Factor'). He is one of the most recognized names in television, and in journalism. With all that, of course he is getting a lot of publicity!

--Waluigi

Tell me the truth, you are either the president of O'Reilly's fan club or work for the network, right?

Waluigi
Sep 8, 2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by michaello
At least he won some journalism awards - including a PEABODY - which is more than Mr. O'Reilly can honestly claim.

Bill O'Reilly is still more successful, and is 15 years younger then Geraldo, so he has a lot of time to do even more! Do not underestimate the power of the consumer, they have obviously chosen Bill in radio, television, and in literature, making him a rare triple crown winner in his business.


Bill O’Reilly is not a good role model. He is far from honest about his flaws (in fact, he lies all the time - or haven’t you read the Franken book?), he does pretend to be perfect (in that it’s his point of view or no point of view)

Bill O'Reilly IS a good role model because
1. He is not afraid to speak his mind
2. He sticks up for what he believes is right
3. He has many charities, and gives back to the community
4. He uses his newfound fame to promote good things, and has challenged corrupt organizations and leaders
5. He is very humble (listen to his radio show, he always pokes fun at himself!)
6. He is successful at what he does, and has gone from nobody to The Great Bill O'Reilly.
7. He, unlike Hillary Clinton, writes his own books!!
8. He isn't chained down to any political party, and can make up his own mind.
8. Even though he is a devout Roman Catholic, he had the balls to take a very public stand against the priest sex scandal in Boston and around the country! He also came out against the pope! You have no idea how much heat he got from his mother, family, and a lot of conservatives for doing that, but he still to this day disagrees with the pope on issues! That takes a lot of guts.

In his books, he talks about how he used to have trouble dating, his rocky relationship with his father, etc. He is always humbling when it comes to his appearance (hair, height, weight, etc). He clearly writes in his books that he is not perfect, and on his radio show, he always says he is far from perfect. He does defend his views to the death, although he concedes more then Sean Hannity, who never concedes. There is a difference between debating on a political or social or economic issue, and claiming to be the perfect 'stud'.


Bill O’Reilly will be a punch line once this rash of publicity quickly wears off.

Bill O'Reilly has been around for about 25 years, and is only going up. He will be around at the very top of the mountain for years to come. He will not stoop to the level of Geraldo, and be the butt of all Conan O'Brien jokes.

--Waluigi

Waluigi
Sep 8, 2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Sayhey
Tell me the truth, you are either the president of O'Reilly's fan club or work for the network, right?

I actually want to start a Bill O'Reilly fan club! I have shown his show to a lot of people, and a few of them now watch everyday! Bill O'Reilly has just really taken me aback, like none other. I can't explain it, but he has really inspired me. I guess the thing I like most about him is that he is a fantastic debater (seriously, you'd want him on your debate team), and uses logic to come to conclusions, which really appeals to me. I would never work for FOX NEWS, because I think they seriously brainwash their audience by OVERusing the 'fair and balanced' slogan, which is crap to begin with. But O'Reilly is just so interesting, entertaining, and informing to watch. I just can't get enough! I preordered an autographed copy of his new book Who's Looking Out For You? (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0767913795/qid=1063056374/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-1332145-6482535)!! I also get a cool bumper sticker:
http://www.billoreilly.com\images\icons\homepage\bumperSticker.jpg

(Don't be a smart ass, and photoshop that either.)

--Waluigi

Sayhey
Sep 8, 2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi
I actually want to start a Bill O'Reilly fan club! I have shown his show to a lot of people, and a few of them now watch everyday! Bill O'Reilly has just really taken me aback, like none other. I can't explain it, but he has really inspired me. I guess the thing I like most about him is that he is a fantastic debater (seriously, you'd want him on your debate team), and uses logic to come to conclusions, which really appeals to me. I would never work for FOX NEWS, because I think they seriously brainwash their audience by OVERusing the 'fair and balanced' slogan, which is crap to begin with. But O'Reilly is just so interesting, entertaining, and informing to watch. I just can't get enough! I preordered an autographed copy of his new book Who's Looking Out For You? (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0767913795/qid=1063056374/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-1332145-6482535)!! I also get a cool bumper sticker:
http://www.billoreilly.com\images\icons\homepage\bumperSticker.jpg

(Don't be a smart ass, and photoshop that either.)

--Waluigi

What ever floats your boat. ;)

Taft
Sep 8, 2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi
Bill O'Reilly IS a good role model because
...
8. He isn't chained down to any political party, and can make up his own mind.
...


First, I'm glad to see that your top 10 list didn't include an item for honesty. That is one trait Bill O'Reilly hasn't quite worked out.

Second, and a logical extension to my previous point, it has already been shown that Bill O'Reilly not only believes in overwhelmingly conservative ideals, but he is also aligns himself with the Republican party.

Mason originally made this point earlier in the thread:

Franken has a photocopy of O'Reilly's voter registration sheet in which O'Reilly personally identifies himself as a Republican. He also states on the same sheet that his employer is "Inside Edition." You can look for yourself on page 75 of Franken's book.

So I guess your theory goes right out the window, eh?

Now, everyone has the right to belong to a political party, and just because he belongs to a particular party in no way excludes him from the field of journalism.

But both O'Reilly and yourself assert that he has no affinity for either party, when this is clearly not the case. The Great Bill O'Reilly is being less than candid when making these claims.

This fact, combined with his shady tactics and bullying make him less than perfect in the role model category, IMO. I don't often consider disingenuous persons to be role models.

Taft

zimv20
Sep 8, 2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi
I actually want to start a Bill O'Reilly fan club!

maybe he needs an intern

michaello
Sep 8, 2003, 06:50 PM
Waluigi, tell the truth - Are you Bill O'Reilly?

Waluigi
Sep 8, 2003, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by michaello
Waluigi, tell the truth - Are you Bill O'Reilly?

hahahaha! One can dream michaello, one can only dream.

--Waluigi

Waluigi
Sep 8, 2003, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by zimv20
maybe he needs an intern

If I was lucky, he'd be looking for a technical consultant or web designer.....I think I'm out of luck there....


--Waluigi

charboneau
Sep 8, 2003, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi
I I guess the thing I like most about him is that he is a fantastic debater (seriously, you'd want him on your debate team), and uses logic to come to conclusions, which really appeals to me.

You think? (http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0318-11.htm)

Waluigi
Sep 8, 2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by charboneau
You think? (http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0318-11.htm)

Do you have the script to this interview?

Is this 'Bill Hartung' telling the whole truth?

Do you really think Bill O'Reilly isn't a good debater? You would be in the minority, because even the people who hate him know that he is the hardest person in the world to argue with. If you have a flaw in your argument, he will find it.

Be honest, if you wanted to win a debate, you would want Bill O'Reilly on you team! That is one of his biggest strengths, besides writing (which he does oh so well, as you can see in his weekly columns, and talking points memo daily).

No, Bill O'Reilly would not make a good lawyor. However, he will always win the debate.

--Waluigi

Mason
Sep 8, 2003, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi

Do you really think Bill O'Reilly isn't a good debater? You would be in the minority, because even the people who hate him know that he is the hardest person in the world to argue with. If you have a flaw in your argument, he will find it.

Be honest, if you wanted to win a debate, you would want Bill O'Reilly on you team! That is one of his biggest strengths, besides writing (which he does oh so well, as you can see in his weekly columns, and talking points memo daily).

No, Bill O'Reilly would not make a good lawyor. However, he will always win the debate.

--Waluigi

If I wanted to win an argument on the playground, then I might want O'Reilly on my side. However, having some experience with forensics in college, I can tell you that no real debater would want O'Reilly on their team. Reasoned debate requires responsive, intelligent answers that work through a (hopefully) thorough discussion of the issue at hand. Instead, O'Reilly prefers to have the "debate" fixed in his favor. It was quite telling that Franken reduced O'Reilly to a blubbering idiot in their c-span event - with O'Reilly continuously shouting "shut up, shut up" at Franken because Franken was making him look like a bozo.

O'Reilly is not there to debate. He is there to reinforce people's beliefs - and this is all the more effective when he announces that no spin has been involved. Why else must he, every 2 minutes, deny he is spinning? Why else must he, when someone comes up with facts that refute his postulates, merely say "Well, I guess we'll just have to disagree' ???

No, Bill, it's called facts. And you may "disagree" with them - but you're still wrong.

Waluigi
Sep 8, 2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by Mason
However, having some experience with forensics in college, I can tell you that no real debater would want O'Reilly on their team.

What does forensics have to do with debating?


It was quite telling that Franken reduced O'Reilly to a blubbering idiot in their c-span event - with O'Reilly continuously shouting "shut up, shut up" at Franken because Franken was making him look like a bozo.

Franken was pushing his buttons, and he got mad. He did go overboard, I must admit. However, as I have said before, Bill asked Al name everything I've done wrong over the last 6 years on The O"Reilly Factor, and all Al could think of was that Bill mispoke about which award he won. That is all Franken came up with, yet he still believes O"Reilly is bad....a very weak and pathetic case. Yes, O'Reilly said 'shut up, shut up' too much, and he lost his professionalism! We all know that.

Why else must he, every 2 minutes, deny he is spinning?

First, he is telling the truth. Second, the only one spinning here is you. You clearly don't like anything about O'Reilly, no matter what he does. He could take a bullet for you, and you'd still spit in his face. You see, I have admitted when he is wrong, and pointed out when he is right, thus I have presented both sides of the arguement. You have not, thus you are spinning, and the spin stops right here.



Why else must he, when someone comes up with facts that refute his postulates, merely say "Well, I guess we'll just have to disagree' ???

Bill has people working for him that go out and make sure he has all the correct facts, just like every big shot. He doesn't want to make a fool of himself. He does his homework before each segment, and gets all the facts. What do you want Bill to say? You wouldn't like him no matter what he says, so it really doesn't matter.


No, Bill, it's called facts. And you may "disagree" with them - but you're still wrong.

Bill is right most of the time when it comes to the facts. You may disagree with his opinion, but he lays out facts on each topic, then gives his opinion on it. He rarely makes mistakes on facts becasue he has a whole team working for him making sure he has the right facts.

The spin stops here.

--Waluigi

Mason
Sep 8, 2003, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi
What does forensics have to do with debating?


Forensics is the term for public speech.

fo·ren·sic (f?-r?n?s?k, -z?k)_Pronunciation Key
adj.

1. Relating to, used in, or appropriate for courts of law or for public discussion or argumentation.
2. Of, relating to, or used in debate or argument; rhetorical.
3. Relating to the use of science or technology in the investigation and establishment of facts or evidence in a court of law: a forensic laboratory.


[From Latin for?nsis, public, of a forum, from forum, forum. See dhwer- in Indo-European Roots.]fo·ren?si·cal·ly adv.


Franken was pushing his buttons, and he got mad. He did go overboard, I must admit. However, as I have said before, Bill asked Al name everything I've done wrong over the last 6 years on The O"Reilly Factor, and all Al could think of was that Bill mispoke about which award he won. That is all Franken came up with, yet he still believes O"Reilly is bad....a very weak and pathetic case. Yes, O'Reilly said 'shut up, shut up' too much, and he lost his professionalism! We all know that.


Talk about spinning! Bill did a lot more than mispeak about the award. First he claimed an award he didn't receive. Then he admitted it was a mistake. Then he later denied ever making the first statement. AND the award was won AFTER he left Inside Edition.


First, he is telling the truth. Second, the only one spinning here is you. You clearly don't like anything about O'Reilly, no matter what he does. He could take a bullet for you, and you'd still spit in his face. You see, I have admitted when he is wrong, and pointed out when he is right, thus I have presented both sides of the arguement. You have not, thus you are spinning, and the spin stops right here.


Ad hominem attacks? How O'Reilly of you.


Bill has people working for him that go out and make sure he has all the correct facts, just like every big shot. He doesn't want to make a fool of himself. He does his homework before each segment, and gets all the facts. What do you want Bill to say? You wouldn't like him no matter what he says, so it really doesn't matter.


I care about how O'Reilly spins facts, not whether he has fact-checkers.


Bill is right most of the time when it comes to the facts. You may disagree with his opinion, but he lays out facts on each topic, then gives his opinion on it. He rarely makes mistakes on facts becasue he has a whole team working for him making sure he has the right facts.

The spin stops here.

--Waluigi

So if he gives an opinion, isn't that a spin? Or are you telling me that every single one of O'Reilly's opinions are completely neutral?

Waluigi
Sep 8, 2003, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Mason
Forensics is the term for public speech.


Oh, my mistake. I thought you ment the forensics like Dr. Henry Lee does with dead bodies.


Talk about spinning! Bill did a lot more than mispeak about the award. First he claimed an award he didn't receive. Then he admitted it was a mistake. Then he later denied ever making the first statement. AND the award was won AFTER he left Inside Edition.

This is still ONE mistake he made, and the ONLY one Franken could come up with. Stop spinning that one mistake into 4 or 5.

I care about how O'Reilly spins facts, not whether he has fact-checkers.

Bill O'Reilly does not spin facts.

So if he gives an opinion, isn't that a spin? Or are you telling me that every single one of O'Reilly's opinions are completely neutral?

Bill's show is NOT a hard news show! He presents some given truths about a topic, then presents his opinion on it, and asks guests to present opinions from both sides of the issue too. There is no such thing as a neutral opinion, thats an oxymoron. He tends to agree with whoever makes the most sense and uses logic.

The Spin stops here.

--Waluigi

Taft
Sep 8, 2003, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Mason
Ad hominem attacks? How O'Reilly of you.

How true.

"The spin stops here" as a nice little catch phrase is quite O'Reilly-esque as well. Someone's been taking lessons. ;)

The great debater in action...

...

O'REILLY: Cut his mic. I'm not going to dress you down anymore, out of respect for your father. We will be back in a moment with more of THE FACTOR.

GLICK: That means we're done?

O'REILLY: We're done

Taft

Mason
Sep 8, 2003, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi
Oh, my mistake. I thought you ment the forensics like Dr. Henry Lee does with dead bodies.

This is still ONE mistake he made, and the ONLY one Franken could come up with. Stop spinning that one mistake into 4 or 5.

Bill O'Reilly does not spin facts.

Bill's show is NOT a hard news show! He presents some given truths about a topic, then presents his opinion on it, and asks guests to present opinions from both sides of the issue too. There is no such thing as a neutral opinion, thats an oxymoron. He tends to agree with whoever makes the most sense and uses logic.

The Spin stops here.

--Waluigi

Actually, Franken cites a number of lies told by O'Reilly. Why not pick the book up and give it a read?

Look, it's pretty obvious you're in love with O'Reilly and aren't able to comprehend why people might have reasonable and justified criticisms of his show. Instead, you deem any attack upon him to be merely spin. Funny how it's spin when it's me or Franken, but it's the truth when it's you or O'Reilly.

I'd be happy to have a discussion about O'Reilly if you're able to refrain from the nonsensical arguments. But I'm not interested in emulating the playground debating style found on the "Factor."

Waluigi
Sep 8, 2003, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Taft
The great debater in action...

How about the great writer in action?

taken from www.billoreilly.com:

Who's Looking Out For Us?
By: Bill O'Reilly for BillOReilly.com
Wednesday, Sep 03, 2003

Let me break this to you gently: Neither of the dominant political parties in America is looking out for you.

Now, I know the ideologues on both sides will reject my thesis because they are like arrogant parents who will never admit that their darling children can do wrong.

But both the GOP and the Democrats have veered away from looking out for you.

Let's begin with the party in power. The Republicans control the national agenda but have done little problem solving.

We are slowly coming out of a recession but the federal deficit is historic, the borders are still chaotic, there is no cohesive national health plan and we are still overly dependent on foreign oil.

President Bush is popular because he vanquished the Taliban and has aggressively waged war on Al Qaeda and villains like Saddam.

This is the President's strongest suit and it may carry him into a second term. But Mr. Bush is also secretive and unsteady on many issues.

The weapons of mass destruction situation is a clear example. All Americans but particularly those families who have lost soldiers in Iraq, deserve to be kept appraised of the WMD investigation.

Fair-minded Americans will accept mistakes if they are made honestly, but there is no excuse for an information black out on this important issue.

We have captured enough Iraqis to have gotten some kind of picture about what that country had or didn't have in the weapons department.

And why hasn't President Bush urged Americans to conserve energy? Almost every week we find out another bad thing about our "friends" the Saudis.

Recently, that country cut oil production for absolutely no reason other than to drive up prices. Thanks again guys, you've been great in the war on terror.

Inexplicably, the Bush administration has not mandated fuel efficiency standards from American car makers nor have they urged Americans to use less fuel so we can send OPEC a message. Hey, Dick Cheney, can you explain that?

As far as the Democrats are concerned you don't have to look any farther than California. The nation's largest state has been rendered almost insolvent by Democratic party hacks who spend recklessly and tax ruthlessly.

All over the country elected Democrats rarely impose discipline on public spending. They are in business to buy votes from special interests and the working person by damned.

A new CBS News poll shows that two-thirds of registered voters can't name one Democratic candidate for President.

These guys are largely invisible because they lack the boldness or notoriety that Americans crave from public figures.

There is no question that Senator Hillary Clinton is the great hope of the Democratic Party but look at her record.

Mrs. Clinton was in charge of improving public education in Arkansas and that didn't happen.

Her national health care proposal was hooted out of town, and her promise to improve economic conditions in upstate New York has been completely empty. Unemployment is up big in Buffalo and Rochester since she was elected.

Even if you are the most committed liberal on earth this question demands an answer: What has Senator Clinton ever done to be the most powerful Democrat in the country?

So the political landscape on both sides of the aisle is bleak and no amount of spin is gonna change the failures of both parties.

President Bush needs to level with us and solve some problems. The Dems need to get their hands out of our pockets and get some new ideas.

Leslie Gore once sang: "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to."

We should want to.

************************************************
How fair is that? He systematically attacks both parties in one column! Can't you find something you agree with him on? He is a brillant writer, and debater.

The spin stops here.

--Waluigi

Waluigi
Sep 8, 2003, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by Mason
Actually, Franken cites a number of lies told by O'Reilly. Why not pick the book up and give it a read?

Look, it's pretty obvious you're in love with O'Reilly and aren't able to comprehend why people might have reasonable and justified criticisms of his show. Instead, you deem any attack upon him to be merely spin. Funny how it's spin when it's me or Franken, but it's the truth when it's you or O'Reilly.

I'd be happy to have a discussion about O'Reilly if you're able to refrain from the nonsensical arguments. But I'm not interested in emulating the playground debating style found on the "Factor."

OK, I'll read Franken's book. I will do all I can to try to keep a fair mind when reading it (although that is going to be hard). You're right in this sense, I like his show a lot. I just don't like when people attack him with little or no evidence beyond 'I don't like him, he's mean'. No one stands up for him, and I am because I really believe he is a good guy.

Your right about intelligent discussion, I prefer it too. I'll try to get back to that more in future posts.

--Waluigi

Mason
Sep 8, 2003, 09:03 PM
Look, I can find articles by William Kristol criticising the Bush adminstration. Would you try to tell me that he isn't a Republican?

Waluigi
Sep 8, 2003, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by Mason
Look, I can find articles by William Kristol criticising the Bush adminstration. Would you try to tell me that he isn't a Republican?

ARRRRG! I'm showing an example of O'Reilly at his best. I was trying to prove he is independent, and fair minded. He clearly makes similar arguements against the bush administration that liberals make. He also [HOME RUN NOMARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR..sorry for that OT remark, it just happened as I was typing]..he also, holds up the mirror to the democratic leaders too, which shows he is fair. Come on, there has got to be something you agree with in that well written article?

--Waluigi

Mason
Sep 8, 2003, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi
ARRRRG! I'm showing an example of O'Reilly at his best. I was trying to prove he is independent, and fair minded. He clearly makes similar arguements against the bush administration that liberals make. He also [HOME RUN NOMARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR..sorry for that OT remark, it just happened as I was typing]..he also, holds up the mirror to the democratic leaders too, which shows he is fair. Come on, there has got to be something you agree with in that well written article?

--Waluigi

O'Reilly on rare occasions will criticize the GOP. However, such an occasion is the exception, not the rule. Even in that article he is rather timid towards the GOP while using words like "hack" "ruthless" "invisible" "special interests" "buy votes" etc etc for Democrats. Yeah he takes Bush to task a bit but he still reserves his venom for Democrats - who, by the way, are not responsible for the problems he is complaining about. He mentions California but neglects to mention Enron and Bush's buddies in FERC who recently upheld the energy contracts, even though Enron was fixing prices.

Do you see how, even in this supposed neutral article, he still skews things?

Taft
Sep 8, 2003, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi
How fair is that? He systematically attacks both parties in one column! Can't you find something you agree with him on? He is a brillant writer, and debater.

The spin stops here.

--Waluigi

You're right, I do find many of the things he says in that passage true. He hits the nail on the head a few times. Though he is a little over-board on Clinton (tell me where in this country has the economic situation IMPROVED since Sen. Clinton took office???).

Anyway, one passage from one book does not a good person make. I agree he makes good points from time to time. But so does almost any writer/commentator in the public arena. O'Reilly, to me, isn't anything special. And his tactics (not generally, mind you, but the EXACT TACTICS I previously posted) far eclipse any points he may make.

Taft

Waluigi
Sep 8, 2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by Mason
O'Reilly on rare occasions will criticize the GOP. However, such an occasion is the exception, not the rule. Even in that article he is rather timid towards the GOP while using words like "hack" "ruthless" "invisible" "special interests" "buy votes" etc etc for Democrats. Yeah he takes Bush to task a bit but he still reserves his venom for Democrats - who, by the way, are not responsible for the problems he is complaining about. He mentions California but neglects to mention Enron and Bush's buddies in FERC who recently upheld the energy contracts, even though Enron was fixing prices.

Do you see how, even in this supposed neutral article, he still skews things?

He is critisizing democrats for selling out to special interest. He is critisizing bush for misleading us on WMD's. He clearly states the republicans are in power and are thus to blame for the problems, "Let's begin with the party in power. The Republicans control the national agenda but have done little problem solving".

But if he stopped there, he would be liberal. But since he is independent, he then goes on to say why the democrats have lost so much populatity with the voters (little guys) by selling out to the special interest, "As far as the Democrats are concerned you don't have to look any farther than California. The nation's largest state has been rendered almost insolvent by Democratic party hacks who spend recklessly and tax ruthlessly".

Both of these are valid arguements. Bill's opinions are based on observations. The democrats lost the 2002 elections because voters had enough of their sell out tactics. He also has heard a lot of talk about WMD's from the republicans, but no proof, so he is holding them accountable. He is being very fair.

--Waluigi

Waluigi
Sep 8, 2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by Taft
You're right, I do find many of the things he says in that passage true. He hits the nail on the head a few times. Though he is a little over-board on Clinton (tell me where in this country has the economic situation IMPROVED since Sen. Clinton took office???).

Anyway, one passage from one book does not a good person make. I agree he makes good points from time to time. But so does almost any writer/commentator in the public arena. O'Reilly, to me, isn't anything special. And his tactics (not generally, mind you, but the EXACT TACTICS I previously posted) far eclipse any points he may make.

Taft

First, thank you for looking at that article with an open mind. I agree that he is too harsh on both Clintons, and that is one place where I differ with Bill a lot. I also agree with you that he mishandled the Glick interview. However, I still think that his temper tantroms are isolated incidences (although he is Irish, and we Irish tend to lose our tempers a lot :D).

--Waluigi

charboneau
Sep 9, 2003, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by Waluigi

But if he stopped there, he would be liberal. But since he is independent, he then goes on to say why the democrats have lost so much populatity with the voters (little guys) by selling out to the special interest, "As far as the Democrats are concerned you don't have to look any farther than California. The nation's largest state has been rendered almost insolvent by Democratic party hacks who spend recklessly and tax ruthlessly".

Both of these are valid arguements. Bill's opinions are based on observations. The democrats lost the 2002 elections because voters had enough of their sell out tactics.

Odd that you continue to cite this. As Mason stated the problems in California are largely due to the energy price fixing scandal which involved Enron, El Paso (convicted in the matter) and other companies involved in Dick Cheney's secretive energy task force. He has yet to release task force documents in defiance of court orders and contrary to the ideals of a working democracy.

George W. Bush has created the largest budget deficit ever. The only deficits to rival his were during the Reagan and elder Bush administrations, so the idea of Democrats causing insolvency, of taxing and spending wildly needs a bit of revision.

The Democrats lost the 2002 election because they did not differentiate themselves from the Republicans, they tried to be Republican Lite. Voters given the choice between the GOP and a toothless imitation chose the GOP consistently throughout the nation, but by a small margin.

mactastic
Sep 9, 2003, 09:31 AM
If I sign all my posts with "The spin stops here." will you all have to believe me more?

My objections to BO'R are his tactics, not his politics. His opinion is just as valid as anyone elses (yes even Britney Spears) but if he can't keep his Irish temper under control, I for one won't listen to him. I am Irish myself and have very rarely lost my temper to the point that I am literally yelling "shut up" at anyone. And never in a public venue. I refrain from personal insults, even when severly tempted. If BO'R can't do this, he isn't worthy of being held up as a role model IMHO.

The spin stops here.

Waluigi
Sep 9, 2003, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by charboneau
Odd that you continue to cite this. As Mason stated the problems in California are largely due to the energy price fixing scandal which involved Enron, El Paso (convicted in the matter) and other companies involved in Dick Cheney's secretive energy task force. He has yet to release task force documents in defiance of court orders and contrary to the ideals of a working democracy.

George W. Bush has created the largest budget deficit ever. The only deficits to rival his were during the Reagan and elder Bush administrations, so the idea of Democrats causing insolvency, of taxing and spending wildly needs a bit of revision.

The Democrats lost the 2002 election because they did not differentiate themselves from the Republicans, they tried to be Republican Lite. Voters given the choice between the GOP and a toothless imitation chose the GOP consistently throughout the nation, but by a small margin.

I agree with everything you just said about cheany, bush, and the democrats! I was simply trying to point out that Bill O'Reilly isn't a narrow minded Rush clone.

--Waluigi

mactastic
Sep 9, 2003, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by Waluigi
I agree with everything you just said about cheany, bush, and the democrats! I was simply trying to point out that Bill O'Reilly isn't a narrow minded Rush clone.

--Waluigi

We get it. BO'R is not the same as Rush, or Hannity. You don't have to keep telling us.

The spin stops here.

Waluigi
Sep 9, 2003, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by mactastic
If I sign all my posts with "The spin stops here." will you all have to believe me more?

Hahaha, ok, that was very childish of me to do that over and over. Sorry.

My objections to BO'R are his tactics, not his politics. His opinion is just as valid as anyone elses (yes even Britney Spears) but if he can't keep his Irish temper under control, I for one won't listen to him. I am Irish myself and have very rarely lost my temper to the point that I am literally yelling "shut up" at anyone. And never in a public venue. I refrain from personal insults, even when severly tempted. If BO'R can't do this, he isn't worthy of being held up as a role model IMHO.

The spin stops here.

Thats fine that we disagree. I have forgiven Bill for losing his cool at the Franken incident, I still think he over reacted, and did wrong by saying shut up, and going bonkers. I just hope you will hold even those who's political views line up directly with yours to the same behavioral standards, which I'm pretty sure you will. That was the point I'm trying to make; people don't like what he says, so they attack how he says it.

--Waluigi

mactastic
Sep 9, 2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Waluigi
I just hope you will hold even those who's political views line up directly with yours to the same behavioral standards, which I'm pretty sure you will.

I have yet to find a polititian (or even a single other person) whose political views line up directly with mine. ;)

My wife come's closest, but even her and I have some areas of serious disagreement.

My family is Democratic through and through. In fact, my sister just got a job working for the Gephart campaign in Iowa. My in-laws are Republican to the core. My wife's grandfather was mayor of San Jose during the '70's. Both families think I am the devil (and have no problem telling me so:D ) because of the unmitigated grief I give them about their party-line politics. Come to think of it, Christmas ought to be fun this year, what with the Iowa primaries only a few weeks away...

Sayhey
Sep 9, 2003, 12:32 PM
mactastic, totally off topic - who is the picture of in your new avatar? I can't make it out or I'm too old for the image to fire the right synapses.

mactastic
Sep 9, 2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Sayhey
mactastic, totally off topic - who is the picture of in your new avatar? I can't make it out or I'm too old for the image to fire the right synapses.

G.G Allin
If you don't know who he is, you probably don't want to.;)