Is it my imagination, or have we had more sniping in the posts recently?

[Ish]

I've just skimmed through 20 pages of New Posts catching up on what has been happening. Does anyone else think the number of posts with bad-tempered remarks is higher now than a few months ago?

Yes I know that posts can be reported, but it's not necessarily at the level indicated in the Forum Rules. Just makes reading the posts less enjoyable. Anyone else noticed anything?

[thecritix]

well if u dont like it, use another forum.

lol jokesss

perhaps everyones just a little edgy, it'll all be sweet again when we have leopard tips and tricks to discuss. :)

[skinnylegs]

It does seem like everyone has been a bit out of sorts lately. Maybe it's due to the change of seasons? Maybe it's because of all the new releases (Apple TV, iPhone, Leopard)? Maybe it's because.....hell, I don't know! :D

[Ish]

well if u dont like it, use another forum.

lol jokesss :)

:p Hee hee! Did a double take there for a second! Hope you're right.

[CalBoy]

It isn't your imagination. The posts have been becoming nastier lately, and we're all hoping it dies down after Leopard. The theory right now is that there are a lot of new users who are simply here for iPhone or Leopard advice. Since the iPhone dust has settled now, the only remaining source of new joiners (in an en masse fashion) is Leopard. So, hopefully, a few weeks after Leopard has settled, we'll be able to go back to our once civil forums:o

[Ibjr]

I've just skimmed through 20 pages of New Posts catching up on what has been happening. Does anyone else think the number of posts with bad-tempered remarks is higher now than a few months ago?

Yes I know that posts can be reported, but it's not necessarily at the level indicated in the Forum Rules. Just makes reading the posts less enjoyable. Anyone else noticed anything?

I think it is the holier-than-thou moralists who don't understand the concepts they attack with.

[bigandy]

*points at teh newbies*

it was them! ;)


but seriously, i agree with you. over the past year, the overall tone of the forums has seen vastly different from how it was back in the day.

oh well, maybe everyone will realise that threads were created yesterday pointing out that hole in the Mac lineup for the 27,000th time. or that yes, someone has previously tried doing x instead of y.

and perhaps, someday, a new member will discover and read the forum rules, and use the search before posting what's been posted before...




:rolleyes:

[Ish]

The theory right now is that there are a lot of new users who are simply here for iPhone or Leopard advice.:o

So the prevailing theory is that iPhone users are a grumpy lot?! :D


bigandy
and perhaps, someday, a new member will discover and read the forum rules, and use the search before posting what's been posted before...

As long as they're nicely clueless I can cope with that.

bigandy, you've only been here 7 months longer than me. Where do you get the time to make so many posts????? I'm not even up to my 500 yet! Yeah, okay, I can hear the answer: you type fast! :p

[Capt Underpants]

I've noticed a lot of negativity/hostility around here lately... and I'm not diggin' it.

It's not just from newbies either.

Can't we all just be friends?

[CalBoy]

So the prevailing theory is that iPhone users are a grumpy lot?! :D

Sounds good to me:p

Seriously though, the iPhone forums attract some of the worst threads/posts around. They are a war zone.

[Ibjr]

What does crack me up is when I go back and read some of my posts from 2002.... usually at least one or two of the active posters who replied to me have been banned in the last few years.

Another reason for the nastiness is some are really caught up in the distortion field. Most of us realize that Apple isn't flawless but if you point it out to certain newbies you are told to go back to XP.

[Ish]

1. I've noticed a lot of negativity/hostility around here lately... and I'm not diggin' it.
2. It's not just from newbies either.
3. Can't we all just be friends?

1. No, me neither
3. Suits me. That makes two of us then. (Not sure the sentiment goes with your sig though! :p)

CalBoy
Seriously though, the iPhone forums attract some of the worst threads/posts around. They are a war zone.

I don't want an iPhone so, thankfully, I've never been in there.

Ibjr
Most of us realize that Apple isn't flawless but if you point it out to certain newbies you are told to go back to XP.

Yeah, sometimes you get a product that's a bit iffy: there's always one rotten :apple: in the barrel!


It's funny having a conversation on here when you're nearly half way round the world. Takes longer than if you were on the moon!

Don't want to just sit here and moan about it though. I will deal with it for myself by not getting drawn in to something negative, and I won't be rude either. Doesn't mean I won't tease in a friendly way though! Let's radiate some friendliness. :)

[wordmunger]

Yeah, just stay out of the iPhone/iPod touch forums and it's really not much different from the MR of old. I've eliminated them from my search and forum spy prefs, so I hardly ever see them at all.

[Queso]

Another reason for the nastiness is some are really caught up in the distortion field. Most of us realize that Apple isn't flawless but if you point it out to certain newbies you are told to go back to XP.
I find that hilarious, especially when it's from a poster with a join date of Sep 2007 or similar :D

But yeah, chill out people. If you want to be all nasty and aggressive in your posting there are sites (http://slashdot.org/) for that already.

[Sijmen]

Haha, good point with the link.

I think this is a bit inevitable, considering the rise in Mac, iPod, and recently iPhone popularity. More people means more rotten apples.

[OllyW]

Seriously though, the iPhone forums attract some of the worst threads/posts around. They are a war zone.

That's why I've blocked them from the forum spy.

I got sucked into a few threads on there and it doesn't take much to upset someone. I only said the iPhone wasn't perfect :D

[edesignuk]

It's because everyone sucks.

There, I said it.

;)

[bigandy]

As long as they're nicely clueless I can cope with that.

bigandy, you've only been here 7 months longer than me. Where do you get the time to make so many posts????? I'm not even up to my 500 yet! Yeah, okay, I can hear the answer: you type fast! :p
Exactly. Cluless + Nice > Clueless + Nasty. :rolleyes:

My post average is hardly over 3 a day. I've been here longer than some of the most prolific posters here (KT, Mad Jew etc), but they've racked up a whole lot more.

I've noticed a lot of negativity/hostility around here lately... and I'm not diggin' it.

It's not just from newbies either.

Can't we all just be friends?
Agreed. I've seen it from all angles. I think that any long term members that are doing that are just coming to the end of their tethers. Not that it's an excuse, I just know how annoying it gets sometimes hearing something for the umpteenth time. :rolleyes:


It's because everyone sucks.

There, I said it.

;)
You suck. :p

[mrkramer]

So the prevailing theory is that iPhone users are a grumpy lot?! :D


I think that is probably correct, but if you do like me and it sounds like a lot of other people here just block them, and you don't notice it quite as much. I think that a lot of them are new to Apple and think that they have to act like their idea of the stereotypical Apple user and think that nothing can ever be wrong with Apple and Microsoft is worse than the devil and cannot make a good product ever.

[Ibjr]

Again, I think you guys are really overlooking the holier than thou folks. I don't recall any issues with people posting about Jaguar, Panther, or Tiger a day or two early. These people just get my dander up.

[mac 2005]

I haven't been reading much in the forums lately, so I can't weigh in on the current climate. Back in September, though, I noted a similar sentiment in this thread: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=353427

[TBi]

*points at teh newbies*

it was them! ;)


but seriously, i agree with you. over the past year, the overall tone of the forums has seen vastly different from how it was back in the day.

oh well, maybe everyone will realise that threads were created yesterday pointing out that hole in the Mac lineup for the 27,000th time. or that yes, someone has previously tried doing x instead of y.

and perhaps, someday, a new member will discover and read the forum rules, and use the search before posting what's been posted before...




:rolleyes:

I agree totally with you. It's not so much the newbies themselves that bring out these "sniping" remarks, more the really lazy people who don't even bother to search the forums or google to ask a basic, easy, previously answered question or post the 50th thread on something.

I know i'm guilty of sniping at people, but never (and please tell me if i have) at someone with a legitimate question that a simple search or RTFM couldn't answer. In those situations i hope i come across as being as helpful as anyone can be if i know the answer, or can point in the right direction.

[mac 2005]

To me, the issue is: Does a poorly formed question or a question from someone who could have found the answer by reading the FAQs merit a snappy/snotty response? What value does being snarky add? These responses don't answer the question and subject the rest of us to an unpleasant conversation.

Think about how much fun it is listening to other people argue. Okay, I know it can be fun if they're getting in some good lines, but, after a point, do you really want to be around that negative energy?

As Arn suggested when I created the post I did, the best response is to point the person in the right direction rather than weigh in on what you think about them and the proverbial horse upon which they rode into town. Sometimes rolling your eyes and moving on is the best response.

Just because somebody is a "newbie" doesn't give someone else license to ****** on them. And I'm frankly perplexed by people who consider it a point of pride to do just that. None of knows as much about anything as somebody else knows, and I really regret the day they decide to be condescending and not share what they know.

[megfilmworks]

I've just skimmed through 20 pages of New Posts catching up on what has been happening. Does anyone else think the number of posts with bad-tempered remarks is higher now than a few months ago?

Yes I know that posts can be reported, but it's not necessarily at the level indicated in the Forum Rules. Just makes reading the posts less enjoyable. Anyone else noticed anything?

WTF, you dumb Jackaxx, get lost!

oops, sorry. I don't know what came over me. Maybe it was the Twinkies.:eek:

[Kingsly]

I think there's definitely been more sniping in the forums lately...

http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/p&r/concepts/2006/Pics%20for%20web/C&P%202006%20High%20Res%20Images/C&P%202006%20Chap%203%20images%20HiRes/C&P2006%20CH%203%20Pg158%20Sniper.jpg

Hopefully the killing will stop this evening after six or so. ;)

[bigandy]

To me, the issue is: Does a poorly formed question or a question from someone who could have found the answer by reading the FAQs merit a snappy/snotty response? What value does being snarky add? These responses don't answer the question and subject the rest of us to an unpleasant conversation.
No, it never deserves such a response - just the standard 'try a search to find your answer' used to do, but many people add pointless, snappy or otherwise inappropriate responses. It adds no value, and I agree - I don't want to read someone's post where they start telling another member they're an imbosil/whatever just because they asked something that's been asked before, or been mentioned in the thread already.

As Arn suggested when I created the post I did, the best response is to point the person in the right direction rather than weigh in on what you think about them and the proverbial horse upon which they rode into town. Sometimes rolling your eyes and moving on is the best response.
Exactly the reason my post average dropped in the last few months ;)

Just because somebody is a "newbie" doesn't give someone else license to ****** on them. And I'm frankly perplexed by people who consider it a point of pride to do just that. None of knows as much about anything as somebody else knows, and I really regret the day they decide to be condescending and not share what they know.
No it doesn't, and I'm sure that the vast majority of members wouldn't do that either - but again, there's a minority that might spoil it for us all. Newbie flaming is a sport on some forums, and I'm glad it isn't here. The thing to do to try and avoid this happening, in my view, is to ensure the resolution of the following (which I wrote elsewhere but never posted):

The main point is the lack of new/short term members actually (a) reading/comprehending rules, and (b) searching before posting. With the huge influx of new members, there will always be a few slipping the net and not seeing either the rules or the requests to search.


Hopefully the killing will stop this evening after six or so. ;)

Until everyone realises time machine doesn't actually send you through time, or that software update doesn't work because there's no software to update, or that iChat doesn't work if you don't know anyone on AIM... :rolleyes:

[Kingsly]

Until everyone realises time machine doesn't actually send you through time, or that software update doesn't work because there's no software to update, or that iChat doesn't work if you don't know anyone on AIM...

Yeah but then it won't be sniping... it'll be more rambo-esque. :rolleyes:

[MacinDoc]

There's been a lot of sniping lately, no doubt about it.

And as a result, some posters are getting a bit sensitive, thinking that general comments are personal attacks on them.

Let's keep it all civil (feel free if you want to poke fun at me, though).

[SMM]

I've just skimmed through 20 pages of New Posts catching up on what has been happening. Does anyone else think the number of posts with bad-tempered remarks is higher now than a few months ago?

Yes I know that posts can be reported, but it's not necessarily at the level indicated in the Forum Rules. Just makes reading the posts less enjoyable. Anyone else noticed anything?

Actually, this has been going on for the past couple years and seems to be getting worse. Quite frankly, I just got tired of it and now spend the majority of my time on the Political Forum.

When I first drive up here, Apple's stock was trading at < $40 and their installed base was between 2%-3% (as I recall). It is now over $180/share and over 8%. They have been doing a lot of things right. So far, 2007 has been a hige year. All this success has been drawing a great deal of attention. Not all of it is good.

I long ago detected an organized disinformation/propaganda effort underway. I mentioned it several times, but most people accused me of conspiracy theory. However, it was not difficult to see an entrenched pattern developing. It seems like anything :apple: now generates a chorus of negative comments. Those who respond back can quickly have the 'attack dogs' turned on them. Thus the negative posts, personal attacks and bickering, which has totally departed from the thread subject.

Some have accused older posters of attacking newbies. Well, there definitely newbies who come on here and 'stir the pot'. But, there are also many 'oldbies' that were 'newbies' a very short time ago. Basically, I fall into this group, as do many others. They (we) should not be seen as the long-time members here, who seldom ever bust on newcomers.

[Ish]

By the way, when I joked about a rotten :apple: I meant the occasional faulty product. (so flame me then!) I wasn't talking about people.

I don't understand the concept of newbie-bashing. It's the sort of thing you found at school when some of the kids in the older classes would look down on the younger ones. I never understood it then either.

Say you have this really nice person, maybe well-respected in another field, who happens to have a penchant for Apple products and decides to join MR. Why should that person then be treated any differently from everyone else? And even if they do read the Forum Rules it's still easy to forget something. Sometimes you can do a search and not find something because the phrasing is different. Maybe they ask again because they want to talk to someone.

I really like the MR forum. There are some wonderful people on MR that have a lot of knowledge and are happy to share it. It's immature (not talking about age here) to come down on someone like a ton of bricks because they don't know something or do something wrong. There's no-one on MR who didn't start as a newbie. I've had it pointed out to me that I've started a thread on something that had been talked about before. No-one was rude about it though. :) Keep MR Happy! :) Looks like a good sig!

[Counterfit]

Can't we all just be friends?

No, you smell funny.

[Kingsly]

Quite frankly, I just got tired of it and now spend the majority of my time on the Political Forum.

How is that any better than the iPhone forum? :confused: :eek: ;)

[SMM]

How is that any better than the iPhone forum? :confused: :eek: ;)

I blocked that forum on day two - might have stopped in once since then (saw a thread title that caught my attention).

[MacNut]

The Political Forum is a lot like the iPhone forums except the PF has a smarter way to tell you that you suck.:p

[andiwm2003]

i noticed that all forums are much less friendly than 2 years ago. it's unbelievable how often people these days call other posters idiot, moron, stupid or worse. i'm really not sensitive to curse words and such, but gee....

when somebody (often newbies) ask questions they are told to do a search. that's ok but do we really need to call them names for not using the search function?

also if posters speculate about products that are admittedtly unlikly to happen do we need to call them names?

and years ago stupid questions were used to make fun of people and then we helped them. now they get insulted (often without getting help).

this used to be a very friendly fun forum. these days it's quite rough and less fun...:(

[mgguy]

The thread on Al Gore getting the Nobel for his global warming "research" got very heated, about the worst that I have seen in MR. But, as much as I hate to admit it, I really enjoyed reading some of the creative insults and sparring matches that unfolded. Sometimes conflict can be very entertaining and, yes, even educational. The downside is that people may remember the names of posters and hold grudges that will affect how they respond to them in the future. But overall MR is a pretty civil place to hang out.

[MacNut]

The thread on Al Gore getting the Nobel for his global warming "research" got very heated, about the worst that I have seen in MR. But, as much as I hate to admit it, I really enjoyed reading some of the creative insults and sparring matches that unfolded. Sometimes conflict can be very entertaining and, yes, even educational. The downside is that people may remember the names of posters and hold grudges that will affect how they respond to them in the future. But overall MR is a pretty civil place to hang out.That is nothing new tho in the PRSI, it always gets heated no matter what the subject.

[Osarkon]

I always end up reading the argumentative threads, they draw me in somehow.

But I never do post when I see silly stuff like that, I've hung around here to help out people if I can and just generally learn interesting stuff, not have personal insult matches.

[andiwm2003]

it's ok to have that in political threads. emotions run high there anyway and most people expect that. it's sort of normal and if you need help you don't go there anyway.

but it's different when a poster asks "somebody is using my wifi, what can i do?" and the response is "you are an idiot" (i made that example up but there are plenty real ones. just do a search for "idiot" you moron;))

if you think a question is redundant or silly then please come up with a more creative way to insult the poster and add a link to the solution of the problem. if one can not do the latter one then the question was obviously not redundant or silly.

[twoodcc]

i do like to argue, but i don't give out mean remarks or anything

[IJ Reilly]

The number of members of the forum has grown substantially over the last year or so, as a function of Apple's success. Most of the "problem posters" IMO are new members who don't familiarize themselves with the posting rules. I think it's incumbent on the longer-time members to gently remind the newer members, when the need arises, that this is a moderated forum with rules, and when necessary to report problem posters if they go over the line.

[TBi]

if you think a question is redundant or silly then please come up with a more creative way to insult the poster and add a link to the solution of the problem. if one can not do the latter one then the question was obviously not redundant or silly.

I like your thinking :D Creativity is always good in every aspect of life!

[4God]

The number of members of the forum has grown substantially over the last year or so, as a function of Apple's success. Most of the "problem posters" IMO are new members who don't familiarize themselves with the posting rules. I think it's incumbent on the longer-time members to gently remind the newer members, when the need arises, that this is a moderated forum with rules, and when necessary to report problem posters if they go over the line.

Very well said. I would like to also add that it seems that the tug-of-war between Apple's iPhone firmware updates and the unlockers that sometimes end up with bricked iPhones hasn't helped any. Also, the Leopard update as well as those freezer iMacs has probably added fuel to the fire around here as well.

[NC MacGuy]

It certainly seems to be the case. Still..

[thegoldenmackid]

It certainly seems to be the case. Still..

Digging through the archive.

iThink that the growing of the site has led to trolls (and even hacking...) and more users, some with less education and etiquette...

[alphaod]

and more users, some with less education and etiquette...

It's the younger generation with no respect.

[Peace]

Well after surviving the initial onslaught of the OMG!!@@NOOBWTF?? sort. I think the forums has a higher percentage of younger jailbraking,spoiled kids that want everything for free.

[MikhailT]

It is possible that the economy and the massive job losses that we have been experiencing may have bought a lot of "oppressed anger" over to the internet.

One of the most recent study shows that because the economy, there was a noticable increase of domestic violence across the nation. Mainly because the husbands are now laid off and are at home more than the usual so the violence increased with greater frequency.

My thinking is that it is happening on the Internet as well, it is a depressing time right now around the world.

But language barriers are also an issue such as the physical senses, like seeing the body language as well as hearing the tone. A lot of my comments were mistaken as something else, too many people assuming that I meant something that I actually didn't mean. If they hear me say it in person, they would understand right away. So it is hard.

Look at all the sarcasm posts that often got people confused and anger.

[thegoldenmackid]

Clearly...It's All My Fault...