No Airdisk (Airport) Time Machine Backups!

[Diatribe]

As the title says Apple took out Time Machine Backups via Airdisk (AEBS). (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/10/24/apple-doubles-back-on-time-machine-and-airport-disk)

While I think the way it has been running for some people this makes sense, they should have never marketed that feature. I bet there are around 30-40% of new AEBS owners out there that bought it for exactly that feature tat now are going to be pissed.

I for one hope they fix the problems and bring it back, but only time will tell I guess.

[D1G1T4L]

Maybe once the firmware is fixed they will roll out support.

[JSpence]

:mad: I'm disappointed. This was honestly one of the things I was hoping for most! I'm a lappy user, AirDisk support would've just been ideal. Wahhh

[yetanotherdave]

I bet there are around 30-40% of new AEBS owners out there that bought it for exactly that feature tat now are going to be pissed.

I was almost one of them, but my cars starter motor burning out left me lacking in money, so I held off. Glad I did now, but it will be a real pain to remember to attatch my disk to the lappy regulary!

[saxman]

Well that's bad news for lots of people - especially mobile users. I'm beginning to wonder if Apple bit of more than they could chew with the AEBS disk feature. Must be harder than they thought

[superleccy]

Actually I'm not surprised. I've heard anecdotal evidence that the read/write speed of Airdisk is rather on the slow side. I wonder if trying to implement Time Machine over AirDisk would just be too slow... or worse, actually slow down your Mac.

I've not bought a new Airport Extreme yet anyway because I'm waiting for them to add AirTunes.

SL

[Tygernoot]

I'm probably going to say something stupid, but I need to know :).

Do you mean by Airport Disk that it's a HD connected to the Airport Extreme basestation, and that's it's impossible (for now) to create Time Machine backups to that drive even if you are connected through the 1GBit ethernet?

I have three macs at home and wanted to replace my current router by the Airport Extreme, so I can use gigabit ethernet and have one central HD where all Time Machine backups would go.

As long as that isn't possible I see no point in buying the Airport Extreme basestation.

[zen]

I'm probably going to say something stupid, but I need to know :).

Do you mean by Airport Disk that it's a HD connected to the Airport Extreme basestation, and that's it's impossible (for now) to create Time Machine backups to that drive even if you are connected through the 1GBit ethernet?

I have three macs at home and wanted to replace my current router by the Airport Extreme, so I can use gigabit ethernet and have one central HD where all Time Machine backups would go.

As long as that isn't possible I see no point in buying the Airport Extreme basestation.

Correct. And that's why I was about to buy an Airport Extreme Basestation too, as we have two laptops and an iMac, and backing up the portables to a plug-in external HDD is going to be TEDIOUS.

Dropped a big one there Apple!

[Le Big Mac]

Dropped a big one there Apple!

For now, at least.

I have this feeling that Time Machine will at some point (a year?) be revolutionary and one of those "every one needs it" programs that Microsoft will integrate into the next version of windows.

But, in the meantime it's going to take some work to work out kinks and get it running smoothly in a way that's convenient for all users.

[Nuc]

I've found using the airport disk to be very slow even when at home and away from home. Hopefully they will fix this in the future...

Nuc

[twoodcc]

i'm surprised that they changed their minds....hopefully they'll bring the support later

[DoreanGrae]

Yeah this does really suck, as it's ideal for laptop users. It has to be a performance issue, because by all accounts it was working in previous developer betas. Knowing Steve, if it isn't fast enough or cool enough, it ain't shipping.

They must add this later tough. Too many people were banking on it for TM use for them to not. I expect it in 10.5.1.

[wwooden]

Wow, this is a big blow. I bought the AEBS just for this reason, not sure what we are going to do now. I can understand it taking a long time to update the first time, but after that, it should be invisible, I don't think most people are making huge changes per hour. This is a real shame.

[DoreanGrae]

Wow, this is a big blow. I bought the AEBS just for this reason, not sure what we are going to do now. I can understand it taking a long time to update the first time, but after that, it should be invisible, I don't think most people are making huge changes per hour. This is a real shame.

Yeah. It'll be back, I'm sure. Probably soon.

[DylanG]

It's not just Airport disks. Time Machine can't backup to any network drives. This worked fine in earlier betas and is a huge disappointment for me.

[DoreanGrae]

It's not just Airport disks. Time Machine can't backup to any network drives. This worked fine in earlier betas and is a huge disappointment for me.

Not entirely true. It can backup to network drives, but they have to be running off of a Leopard-based system.

Time Machine can also back up to another Mac running Leopard with Personal File Sharing, Leopard Server, or Xsan storage devices.

[D1G1T4L]

It's not just Airport disks. Time Machine can't backup to any network drives. This worked fine in earlier betas and is a huge disappointment for me.

This includes NAS drives?

[DylanG]

Not entirely true. It can backup to network drives, but they have to be running off of a Leopard-based system.

Sorry, my mistake. The beta could back up to a Tiger share and I assumed support for network drives had been removed altogether when I couldn't do that now.

[FJ218700]

bummer dude, I was planning on picking up an AEB with Leopard for this very reason. Apple just lost $160.

[DoreanGrae]

bummer dude, I was planning on picking up an AEB with Leopard for this very reason. Apple just lost $160.

They'll get that $160 one way or another. ;)

[D1G1T4L]

Interested to see someone with a ReadyNAS NV+ try and see if they are able to use it with Time Machine.

[DoreanGrae]

Sorry, my mistake. The beta could back up to a Tiger share and I assumed support for network drives had been removed altogether when I couldn't do that now.

Easy mistake to make. I'm sure for those people out there who have Leopard right now, not many of them have access to another computer running Leopard to try this out, and thus think it doesn't work at all. Quite understandable.

[FJ218700]

They'll get that $160 one way or another. ;)

they're already gotten 10x that over the years. I should qualify for a free one or something :rolleyes:

[DoreanGrae]

they're already gotten 10x that over the years. I should qualify for a free one or something :rolleyes:

How about free shipping at the online store?

[PhatBoyG]

They'll get that $160 one way or another. ;)

Or they'll get your $1600 when you buy a new Al iMac and a 1TB USB drive. :)

[FJ218700]

Or they'll get your $1600 when you buy a new Al iMac and a 1TB USB drive. :)

USB is for windows boxes. No, its FW all the way. (and I think $1600 is an underestimate).

Anyway, let's keep on topic.

[balamw]

This is a weird choice and I hope it is something that can easily fixed in a future firmware update for AEBS.

Airport Disk seems increasingly neutered. It can't work with TM and it can't serve :apple:TV, even though there's not technological reason for it...

B

[flopticalcube]

Firmware 7.2.1 blows big chunks. Apple better fix it quick (along with my freezing iMacs) or their "it just works" will bite them back.

[D1G1T4L]

Firmware 7.2.1 blows big chunks. Apple better fix it quick (along with my freezing iMacs) or their "it just works" will bite them back.

That is one major reason I think they held back. The firmware does need some major work and I guess just didn't have the time to give it the focus it needs.

I expect the next update will/should fix some of the problems with the Airdisk and then we will see it as an option for Time Machine.

With 7.2.1 it just isn't stable enough IMO.

[PhatBoyG]

On topic, I think the real issue is the AEBS. I've read constant problems, regular resets, many using it as a bridge instead of a router since it doesn't support nearly as many router features as say a DLink 655 or DGL-4300 gaming router.

Plus most of what I've read the router has to reboot every couple of days, which would really be a bad interruption on your Time Machine backup. Data loss is likely the reason, and dropping the feature versus making it available and having it fail miserably is probably the main reason.

The AEBS is not stable, and I don't think Apple wanted a rush of people buying it just for the wireless Time Machine feature only to have it riddled with problems.

[twoodcc]

This is a weird choice and I hope it is something that can easily fixed in a future firmware update for AEBS.

Airport Disk seems increasingly neutered. It can't work with TM and it can't serve :apple:TV, even though there's not technological reason for it...

B

i agree here.

[DoreanGrae]

The AEBS is not stable, and I don't think Apple wanted a rush of people buying it just for the wireless Time Machine feature only to have it riddled with problems.

If that's the case, then they really dropped the ball. How many people saw the "Effortless Meets Wireless" blurb on the Time Machine page? How long did they wait to take that down? It seems, from reading these forums, that a lot of people have gone out and bought AEBS' just for Time Machine already, and now they're all pissed.

[jaw04005]

Apple's AirPort group needs to be overhauled. My AirPort Extreme Base Station and AirPort Express both worked fine up to firmware v. 5.5.1 (Extreme) and v.6.1.1 (Express). Apple then released a new firmware update that broke PPoE with certain DSL carriers (mainly SBC) on both devices.

I spent months working with an Apple engineer to sort out the problem sending back logs of data to him personally. He would e-mail me periodically with updates, but he finally left Apple. They never did fix the problem. There is a huge list of AirPort owners that had to revert the older firmwares in order to just connect to the Internet.

I shouldn't have, but I did, purchase an AirPort Extreme 802.11n Base Station (Gigabit). It actually does connect (same ISP as before), but I've had problems with it stalling, dropping connections and AirPort Disk is completely unstable. It was purchased just to use with Time Machine. Afterall, Steve Jobs specifically mentioned wireless backups with AirPort base stations at his WWDC keynote.

[flopticalcube]

I am sure that the AEBS is front and centre as to why TM won't do network backups but could it be something in TM? Why would they pull ALL network-based solutions save for those using Leopard?

I shouldn't have, but I did, purchase an AirPort Extreme 802.11n Base Station (Gigabit). It actually does connect (same ISP as before), but I've had problems with it stalling, dropping connections and AirPort Disk is completely unstable. It was purchased just to use with Time Machine. Afterall, Steve Jobs specifically mentioned wireless backups with AirPort base stations at his WWDC keynote.

Ditto.:mad:

[DoreanGrae]

I purchased it (and I knew better) just to use with Time Machine. Afterall, Steve Jobs specifically mentioned wireless backups with the 802.11n base station at his WWDC keynote.

There was also an entire paragraph on it on the Leopard website, as recently as last week. Of course there is that "all features listed above are subject to change or removal" caveat. I'm sure they'll put it back in at some point. Hopefully soon, because I hate wires.

[DoreanGrae]

I am sure that the AEBS is front and centre as to why TM won't do network backups but could it be something in TM? Why would they pull ALL network-based solutions save for those using Leopard?



Ditto.:mad:

They didn't pull all networked-based TM solutions. Just most. :)

Pick a disk. Any disk.
You can designate just about any HFS+ formatted FireWire or USB drive connected to a Mac as a Time Machine backup drive. Time Machine can also back up to another Mac running Leopard with Personal File Sharing, Leopard Server, or Xsan storage devices.

[flopticalcube]

They didn't pull all networked-based TM solutions. Just most. :)

Like I said, ALL network save for those using Leopard. Xsan...well..OK :rolleyes:

[Eidorian]

It's sad to see this feature isn't here. It'd be a perfect method of using Time Machine.

I can attest to terrible firmware as well. Apple's routers are still flaky enough that I don't trust them compared to other brands.

My $10 Belkin only goes down when the power does. I can't seem to kill it otherwise.

Like I said, ALL network save for those using Leopard. Xsan...well..OK :rolleyes:I got me one of 'dem in my closet.

Yeah right, it looks like Apple is at least supporting their own enterprise hardware for once.

[DoreanGrae]

Like I said, ALL network save for those using Leopard. Xsan...well..OK :rolleyes:

Doh, mis-read that into "ALL network-based solutions for those using Leopard." Missed the "save" part. Apologies.

[flopticalcube]

I got me one of 'dem in my closet.


Never pegged you as a closet Xsan user. :D

[Eidorian]

Never pegged you for a closet Xsan user. :DSadly only an XServe G5.

[samh004]

I'm almost thinking of using Leopard Server on my Mac mini just to be able to use TM, although it might actually be useful for other things in the long run, things I'm yet to figure out though.

[lancestraz]

I too recently bought an APE so I could use it with TM.
Bummer, dude.

[jholzner]

I bought the extreme for just this reason. I've sent Apple feed back on both the Airport Extreme and Mac OS X feedback forms. Hopefully they'll add this feature back once they fix the problem(s) that caused them to remove it. If anyone else wants to submit feedback I've provided links below.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html/

http://www.apple.com/feedback/airportextreme.html

[Eidorian]

Kinda glad I didn't get the AEBS now. :(

[jaw04005]

If anyone else wants to submit feedback I've provided links below.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html/

http://www.apple.com/feedback/airportextreme.html

Done. That makes at least two! I also submitted feedback for the missing hologram effect in iChat. ;)

[flopticalcube]

Done. That makes at least two! I also submitted feedback for the missing hologram effect in iChat. ;)

Three.

[jaw04005]

Macworld's Rob Griffiths is on top of it, but I e-mailed David Pogue to see what he can find out.

If it's like any other product launch, Macworld will get to interview Phil Schiller. Maybe he will make a public statement about the missing feature.

[flopticalcube]

Macworld's Rob Griffiths is on top of it, but I e-mailed David Pogue to see what he can find out.

If it's like any other product launch, Macworld will get to interview Phil Schiller. Maybe he will make a public statement about the missing feature.

That's great. The higher the public profile the quicker things will move.

[A@ron]

Well thank me later :) I got it working fellas. It was there in front of our faces with the exception of doing a chown and chmod.

Someone else please confirm I will post steps.
1) disconnect airport disk and plug into computer as a USB drive directly.
2) Set up time machine to use this volume.
3) In terminal cd to volume "cd /Volume/HDD"
4) In terminal "touch .com.apple.timemachine.supported" this will create an invisible file.
5) In terminal "sudo chown root:admin .com.apple.timemachine.supported"
6) In terminal "sudo chmod 1775 .com.apple.timemachine.supported"
7) In terminal "ls -l -a" the .com.apple.timemachine.supported file should be -rwxrwxr-t
8) eject disk, unplug from mac, plug into Airport.
9) mount at mac using connect to server in finder (command k) and afp://airportname.local./HDname
10) see if time machine now sees the drive and tries to use it.

[martymcr]

I also got Time Machine working over AEBS but with a much simpler method.

1. Connect your USB disk directly to the Mac
2. Set up Time Machine and let your initial backup run
3. Eject the disk and connect to the AEBS
4. You need to 'touch' the disk by opening it in Finder, then Time Machine realises where it is and carries on.

Works for me on my iMac (wired) and Macbook (wireless to AEBS) - TM keeps the backups tidily with separate directories for each machine.

Still have an issue with my Macbook - it doesn't see the disks after sleeping.

Obviously Apple need to fix this - it shouldn't need me to view the disk each time so that TM can see it, and it should enable direct access to new disks via AEBS.

[JSpence]

Yayyyy! Very good to hear some have gotten AirDisk to work for TM. It was something I was really looking forward too, and you guys are awesome. Hope it works out for everyone else as well:o

[ChrisA]

As the title says Apple took out Time Machine Backups via Airdisk (AEBS). (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/10/24/apple-doubles-back-on-time-machine-and-airport-disk).

Now I'm glad I ordered Leopard through Amazon. I can cancel it. No
need to spend $109 if it is broken. I'll wait until Apple fixes it.
I can return the router for a refund too. If this is really true Apple
will look really stupid in the press.

[fastbite]

I also got Time Machine working over AEBS but with a much simpler method.

1. Connect your USB disk directly to the Mac
2. Set up Time Machine and let your initial backup run
3. Eject the disk and connect to the AEBS
4. You need to 'touch' the disk by opening it in Finder, then Time Machine realises where it is and carries on.

Works for me on my iMac (wired) and Macbook (wireless to AEBS) - TM keeps the backups tidily with separate directories for each machine.

Still have an issue with my Macbook - it doesn't see the disks after sleeping.

Obviously Apple need to fix this - it shouldn't need me to view the disk each time so that TM can see it, and it should enable direct access to new disks via AEBS.

Great! Thanks -- but still, it should have been implemented by Apple in a totally straight way.

[CavemanUK]

Just playing devils advocate here but is it wise to rely on unsupported methods when your primary goal is the integrity of your backup data?

[martymcr]

Just playing devils advocate here but is it wise to rely on unsupported methods when your primary goal is the integrity of your backup data?


You son of satan you!

Not sure really - will probably move the Time Machine disk and connect it direct to my iMac, share it out and back Macbook up to it - this looks like it will work as a shared disk on my iMac appears in the Macbook as a possible TM destination.

[JSpence]

Just playing devils advocate here but is it wise to rely on unsupported methods when your primary goal is the integrity of your backup data?

on MR I'm confident that these methods will be tested and feedback will be given. Everyone will pull out alright, I'm sure.

[zen]

Regarding the safety of your data if you want to use an unsupported Time Machine/AirDisk feature, I can't see how it can be a problem if you use this workaround posted by A@ron:



1) disconnect airport disk and plug into computer as a USB drive directly.
2) Set up time machine to use this volume.
3) In terminal cd to volume "cd /Volume/HDD"
4) In terminal "touch .com.apple.timemachine.supported" this will create an invisible file.
5) In terminal "sudo chown root:admin .com.apple.timemachine.supported"
6) In terminal "sudo chmod 1775 .com.apple.timemachine.supported"
7) In terminal "ls -l -a" the .com.apple.timemachine.supported file should be -rwxrwxr-t
8) eject disk, unplug from mac, plug into Airport.
9) mount at mac using connect to server in finder (command k) and afp://airportname.local./HDname
10) see if time machine now sees the drive and tries to use it.

All you are doing there is enabling Time Machine to recognise the AirDisk, which is presumably exactly what it did in the earlier builds of Leopard before they disabled it.

Apple may have disabled it due to speed problems and reliability when trying to do the initial backup over wireless - 2 days to copy 500GB would turn any user right off Time Machine! But if you do the initial backup with the drive plugged in, then use Time Machine over wireless thereafter, it should be invisible and problem-free.

[klagermkii]

Just playing devils advocate here but is it wise to rely on unsupported methods when your primary goal is the integrity of your backup data?

The primary goal for many people is convenience, not necessarily integrity. That's the whole reason people are excited about Time Machine rather than all the other backup apps that are out there. It's not that people haven't realised in the past that it's a pretty good idea to make backups, it just doesn't seem worth the effort.

Plugging in an external drive every time may again not be worth the effort, and the likelihood that it will have a wobble over the network is probably quite small.

And even if it does go nuts and totally corrupt the Time Machine backup, Time Machine will probably notice it immediately and tell you "hey, looks like you don't have a backup setup anymore".

[martymcr]

I've had problems since my last post - my AEBS is randomly disconnected my drives, so I've had to move them to a direct USB connection to my iMac.

Once they are locally connected, you can share them so remote machines can use them for TM, and you can also backup up other locally connected external disks.

[ac-mac]

we have three macbooks in the house. is it possible if one is connected to an external hard drive, for the other two to use that hard drive as a backup over the network? will time machine create a seperate folder for each mac?

[RedTomato]

This includes NAS drives?

I've read the whole thread, and I can't see if anyone answered this question.

I brought a Buffalo Linkstation 500gb gigabit NAS drive specially for Time Machine. (4 iBooks to backup to it over a wireless router, after plugging in directly for the initial load)

I will be VERY disappointed if it doesn't work :(

Has anyone got the GM Time Machine to work with a NAS drive?

(I'm not even sure if the Buffalo can be reformatted to HFS, or if it has to stay in FAT32 due to its linux controller board)

[martymcr]

we have three macbooks in the house. is it possible if one is connected to an external hard drive, for the other two to use that hard drive as a backup over the network? will time machine create a seperate folder for each mac?

In a word YES !!!!

Time Machine creates a folder called Backups.backupdb on the external drive, then folders inside for each machine.

If you share the external disk from Preferences your other Macs will be able to use it for TM.

Just don't bother trying the AEBS method for now - it's rubbish and doesn't work reliably.

[Kilamite]

Now I'm glad I ordered Leopard through Amazon. I can cancel it. No
need to spend $109 if it is broken. I'll wait until Apple fixes it.
I can return the router for a refund too. If this is really true Apple
will look really stupid in the press.

Broken? They took out a non-advertised feature.

Some people really do make me wonder how they base their logic.

[Diatribe]

Broken? They took out a non-advertised feature.

Some people really do make me wonder how they base their logic.

It was advertised all right... and not too little.

[samh004]

It was advertised all right... and not too little.

And at the bottom of that page it said features were subject to change, and that's what they did. They never said it WOULD be in there, which is unfortunate, but wouldn't help now either.

I tried the second method (backing up via USB first then unplugging and waiting for it to automatically do it via wireless. It's been "preparing" to do the wireless incremental for ages now and I'm not sure what it's doing. I guess I can disable it and wait for an official patch. However I'll let you know if it works.

[Diatribe]

And at the bottom of that page it said features were subject to change, and that's what they did. They never said it WOULD be in there, which is unfortunate, but wouldn't help now either.

I tried the second method (backing up via USB first then unplugging and waiting for it to automatically do it via wireless. It's been "preparing" to do the wireless incremental for ages now and I'm not sure what it's doing. I guess I can disable it and wait for an official patch. However I'll let you know if it works.

Yeah well, I know that features are subject to change, I just think that does only legal justice. It'll still sit badly with a lot of users.

[mungler]

Apple had to change HFS+ to support 'multilinks' aka multiple hard links in Leopard, for Time Machine to work. [1]

My guess is, first time you connect an HFS+ disk to Leopard, it 'enables' it for mutli-linking. Hence why these workarounds work - the Airport Extreme itself cant enable mutli-linking, but after you've hooked the disk into your mac, its enabled, and so is valid when shared over AFP from the Airport Extreme.

This explains why the official line is that network Time Machine backups require a Leopard host... because the remote host has to have enabled the multi-linking feature on the backup volume's HFS+ filesystem.

I strongly suspect a forthcoming Airport Extreme firmware update will address this problem, and enable Time Machine backing up to AirDisks.

[1] http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/12/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_time_machine.html&page=2

"Time Machine does something new and different that actually required Apple to make changes to the underlying Mac file system, HFS+. The new change is referred to multi-links, which are similar to "hard links" common to Unix users..."

[stomer]

Apple had to change HFS+ to support 'multilinks' aka multiple hard links in Leopard, for Time Machine to work. [1]

If this is true then surely it would take more than just plugging an AEBS disk into Leopard Mac for its FS to update. I would have thought formatting the drive would have been necessary.

[ajpprc]

If this is true then surely it would take more than just plugging an AEBS disk into Leopard Mac for its FS to update. I would have thought formatting the drive would have been necessary.

It's gotta be something going on with the airport base station though, otherwise why support wireless backups to another drive on the network but not to an air disk? Like many here I'm pretty disappointed this feature didn't make it.

[synth3tik]

With no undercover support until 2.0 comes out and no time machine air disk. I no longer plan on getting 10.5 today. Rather I will be waiting for this issues to br fixed.

[Switched2aMac]

Does anyone know(sorry if duplicate post) if Time Machine works with the older AEBS?

[DoreanGrae]

I also got Time Machine working over AEBS but with a much simpler method.

1. Connect your USB disk directly to the Mac
2. Set up Time Machine and let your initial backup run
3. Eject the disk and connect to the AEBS
4. You need to 'touch' the disk by opening it in Finder, then Time Machine realises where it is and carries on.

Works for me on my iMac (wired) and Macbook (wireless to AEBS) - TM keeps the backups tidily with separate directories for each machine.

Still have an issue with my Macbook - it doesn't see the disks after sleeping.

Obviously Apple need to fix this - it shouldn't need me to view the disk each time so that TM can see it, and it should enable direct access to new disks via AEBS.

Will it automatically connect if you disconnect from your network and connect again? For example, I take my MBP to class every day. When I get home and turn my computer on, will it automatically start the TM backup when I connect to my wireless network and my Airdisk is available? Or do I have to open it in Finder again?

[samh004]

With no undercover support until 2.0 comes out and no time machine air disk. I no longer plan on getting 10.5 today. Rather I will be waiting for this issues to br fixed.

I'm sure that missing $129 (from you) will make them think twice about removing features like that again.

[jamesarm97]

I tried out the leopard beta some time ago and I was able to use Timemachine to backup to an external usb drive shared via the Airport extreme. I don't know why that support would have been disabled since then. I guess I will have to try it out when I get home (fedex should be delivering any time now).

I was also planning to build a fedora core 7 linux box to use as a file server. I sure hope Timemachine will be able to use that soon. Writing files to the airport extreme seems really slow right now. I have seen lots of threads about sharing being slow on the airport extreme in some cases.

[bdj21ya]

Well thank me later :) I got it working fellas. It was there in front of our faces with the exception of doing a chown and chmod.

Someone else please confirm I will post steps.
1) disconnect airport disk and plug into computer as a USB drive directly.
2) Set up time machine to use this volume.
3) In terminal cd to volume "cd /Volume/HDD"
4) In terminal "touch .com.apple.timemachine.supported" this will create an invisible file.
5) In terminal "sudo chown root:admin .com.apple.timemachine.supported"
6) In terminal "sudo chmod 1775 .com.apple.timemachine.supported"
7) In terminal "ls -l -a" the .com.apple.timemachine.supported file should be -rwxrwxr-t
8) eject disk, unplug from mac, plug into Airport.
9) mount at mac using connect to server in finder (command k) and afp://airportname.local./HDname
10) see if time machine now sees the drive and tries to use it.

I'm looking for more feedback on this system with computers you put to sleep often (like notebooks). I'll try it tomorrow after I get everything set up, but I'd love it if more people want to post. Do you have to reconnect manually after sleep? Or does TM continue to recognize it regardless? What about restarts?

[jkr801]

Well thank me later :) I got it working fellas. It was there in front of our faces with the exception of doing a chown and chmod.

Someone else please confirm I will post steps.
1) disconnect airport disk and plug into computer as a USB drive directly.
2) Set up time machine to use this volume.
3) In terminal cd to volume "cd /Volume/HDD"
4) In terminal "touch .com.apple.timemachine.supported" this will create an invisible file.
5) In terminal "sudo chown root:admin .com.apple.timemachine.supported"
6) In terminal "sudo chmod 1775 .com.apple.timemachine.supported"
7) In terminal "ls -l -a" the .com.apple.timemachine.supported file should be -rwxrwxr-t
8) eject disk, unplug from mac, plug into Airport.
9) mount at mac using connect to server in finder (command k) and afp://airportname.local./HDname
10) see if time machine now sees the drive and tries to use it.

didnt work fer me =(

[lapis]

Well thank me later :) I got it working fellas. It was there in front of our faces with the exception of doing a chown and chmod.

Someone else please confirm I will post steps.
1) disconnect airport disk and plug into computer as a USB drive directly.
2) Set up time machine to use this volume.
3) In terminal cd to volume "cd /Volume/HDD"
4) In terminal "touch .com.apple.timemachine.supported" this will create an invisible file.
5) In terminal "sudo chown root:admin .com.apple.timemachine.supported"
6) In terminal "sudo chmod 1775 .com.apple.timemachine.supported"
7) In terminal "ls -l -a" the .com.apple.timemachine.supported file should be -rwxrwxr-t
8) eject disk, unplug from mac, plug into Airport.
9) mount at mac using connect to server in finder (command k) and afp://airportname.local./HDname
10) see if time machine now sees the drive and tries to use it.


Thanks very much for posting this -- I'll try it! I really hope it works.

[flopticalcube]

Well thank me later :) I got it working fellas. It was there in front of our faces with the exception of doing a chown and chmod...

Thank you? I ought to have your babies! :) You beautiful person you!

[lapis]

This really makes me angry -- I can do this today using Super Duper! software and, indeed, it was a major selling feature of AE. This is a gaffe by Apple, pure and simple. And the fact that none of the major reviewers even pointed this out is also outrageous. I started to think I was losing my mind, and that they had not actually promised this feature. But someone found the Google cache on it, so it was definitely supposed to happen (and should happen!). I'm guessing it will be in a future release, but it's still a significant disappointment that it's not in the first round.

[Veri]

Aren't remote backups effected by building a sparse DMG? In which case there is no need for any particular filesystem features on the server. Though efficient random access of huge files is a must, one would hope that isn't a problem.

[chrisgeleven]

This really makes me angry -- I can do this today using Super Duper! software and, indeed, it was a major selling feature of AE. This is a gaffe by Apple, pure and simple. And the fact that none of the major reviewers even pointed this out is also outrageous. I started to think I was losing my mind, and that they had not actually promised this feature. But someone found the Google cache on it, so it was definitely supposed to happen (and should happen!). I'm guessing it will be in a future release, but it's still a significant disappointment that it's not in the first round.

Apple probably wasn't confident yet that it had all the bugs fixed with this feature.

Keep in mind, people expect backups to be reliable. If someone found out that Time Machine is supposedly backing up to an AirDisk drive but isn't working when they need it most, they will flip. Then there will be a thousand posts on how Apple screwed up Time Machine because it wasn't backing up properly to AirDisk.

I imagine the first or second 10.5.x release will bring back the feature.

[smashingnick]

That whole .com.apple whatever file thing doesn't make a difference. It'll work if you just set up the disk locally first then plug it back in to the AEBS. Here are more details:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4389999#post4389999

[mungler]

If this is true then surely it would take more than just plugging an AEBS disk into Leopard Mac for its FS to update. I would have thought formatting the drive would have been necessary.

Not necessarily. You can switch on and off Journalling on an HFS+ volume without reformatting. [1,2] Why not hard links?

[1] http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107249
"You can turn journaling on and off for disks on the server you are logged into by using Disk Utility or command line tools, with or without erasing the volume."

(NB: These instructions are for Server, which allows you to turn on/off Journaling in Disk Utility GUI. In Client, its missing from the Disk Utility GUI but you can still do it from Terminal)

[2] http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107248

sudo /usr/sbin/diskutil enableJournal /Volumes/MyDisk
sudo /usr/sbin/diskutil disableJournal /Volumes/MyDisk


FWIW, my recommendation would be :

- Plug in the disk directly to the mac
- Set it as your Time Machine drive and do a backup
- Yank it and stick it in the AEBS
- Reselect it as your Time Machine disk

Though, I dont actually have an AEBS to test this ;)

[stomer]

Not necessarily. You can switch on and off Journalling on an HFS+ volume without reformatting. [1,2] Why not hard links?

Journaling and hard links are completely different things. Journalling is something you can actually bolt on to an FS. AFAIK, Journalling doesn't affect the way in which files are physically stored on a disk. Besides hard links are already supported in HFS+, e.g., ln myorignalfile myhardlink

[DoreanGrae]

FWIW, my recommendation would be :

- Plug in the disk directly to the mac
- Set it as your Time Machine drive and do a backup
- Yank it and stick it in the AEBS
- Reselect it as your Time Machine disk

Though, I dont actually have an AEBS to test this ;)

This seems to work, according to several people.

[MartinAyla]

What about backing up to network disks with TimeMachine?

It's not possible for me to connect my network disk to my Mac and do the initial backup as described in this thread.

In the earlier Leopard builds I could just do the "touch" command in Terminal on the network disk and TimeMachine recognized it.

This doesn't work in Leopard GM.

Anyone have any ideas how to get this to work?

[mungler]

its *multiple* hard links they had to put in.... as in multiple links to the same file. gah, i dunno, read the appleinsider article! ;)

[DoreanGrae]

What about backing up to network disks with TimeMachine?

It's not possible for me to connect my network disk to my Mac and do the initial backup as described in this thread.

In the earlier Leopard builds I could just do the "touch" command in Terminal on the network disk and TimeMachine recognized it.

This doesn't work in Leopard GM.

Anyone have any ideas how to get this to work?

The networked disk has to be running off of a Leopard machine.

[MartinAyla]

The networked disk has to be running off of a Leopard machine.

Thanks for the reply.

I understand that, but it worked in the earlier builds, so there must be some sort of workaround (like the "touch" workaround in the other builds).

[EagerDragon]

Now I'm glad I ordered Leopard through Amazon. I can cancel it. No
need to spend $109 if it is broken. I'll wait until Apple fixes it.
I can return the router for a refund too. If this is really true Apple
will look really stupid in the press.

Apple knows about it and removed references to the router attach disks. Officialy that feature does not exist so there is nothing to get eggs about.

They will likely have it at the next patch, its logical and they intended to have it but ran into some problem.

[Fluffymuff]

Apple knows about it and removed references to the router attach disks. Officialy that feature does not exist so there is nothing to get eggs about.

They will likely have it at the next patch, its logical and they intended to have it but ran into some problem.
Damn you for being reasonable!

;)

[DoreanGrae]

Apple knows about it and removed references to the router attach disks. Officialy that feature does not exist so there is nothing to get eggs about.

They will likely have it at the next patch, its logical and they intended to have it but ran into some problem.

Yep. I assume that there had to be some sort of performance issue and that's the only reason it got yanked.

[bxs]

Well thank me later :) I got it working fellas. It was there in front of our faces with the exception of doing a chown and chmod.

Someone else please confirm I will post steps.
1) disconnect airport disk and plug into computer as a USB drive directly.
2) Set up time machine to use this volume.
3) In terminal cd to volume "cd /Volume/HDD"
4) In terminal "touch .com.apple.timemachine.supported" this will create an invisible file.
5) In terminal "sudo chown root:admin .com.apple.timemachine.supported"
6) In terminal "sudo chmod 1775 .com.apple.timemachine.supported"
7) In terminal "ls -l -a" the .com.apple.timemachine.supported file should be -rwxrwxr-t
8) eject disk, unplug from mac, plug into Airport.
9) mount at mac using connect to server in finder (command k) and afp://airportname.local./HDname
10) see if time machine now sees the drive and tries to use it.

Mark my words... This will not work reliably.

1. It's a hack.
2. Time Machine browser will not launch
3. You have to manually mount the Time Machine backup volume
4. It probably will (and most certainly will) cause problems when and if Apple implements the support for the AEBS/TM feature plug-and-play.
5. This is data backup we're talking about and hacks don't play well with the importance of your backup data.

This isn't a hack I'm about to employ even though I was beta testing this work-around some two months ago. This hack does not provide a stable TM product and user will be unhappy with the results.

Just some friendly advice...

Yep. I assume that there had to be some sort of performance issue and that's the only reason it got yanked.

There's was no performance issue. It simply did not work reliably. Take that as backup data being compromised and TM simply not working as advertised.

[smashingnick]

Thanks a lot Captain Buzzkill.... I'll take my chances....

[bxs]

Thanks a lot Captain Buzzkill.... I'll take my chances....

There's nothing quite like jumping into the frying pan. Good luck. :)

[Nugget]

I gotta side with bxs. Doesn't anyone here think that Apple didn't have a darn good reason for pulling support for this? Odds would seem to be pretty good that you'll run into whatever problem Apple found.

[balamw]

I gotta side with bxs. Doesn't anyone here think that Apple didn't have a darn good reason for pulling support for this? Odds would seem to be pretty good that you'll run into whatever problem Apple found.

This seems akin to saying you won't use a condom because they're only 90% effective. Yeah you can run into problems, but it's better than doing nothing and anyhow you should always use multiple forms of backup...

Apple isn't infallible, and does sometimes make decisions that seem purely marketing driven. Just look at the iPT. Would have been a great PDA if they hadn't neutered its ability to enter Calendar items...

B

[andrzejpw]

Tried it with Ubuntu/netatalk. No go.

[bxs]

This seems akin to saying you won't use a condom because they're only 90% effective. Yeah you can run into problems, but it's better than doing nothing and anyhow you should always use multiple forms of backup...

Apple isn't infallible, and does sometimes make decisions that seem purely marketing driven. Just look at the iPT. Would have been a great PDA if they hadn't neutered its ability to enter Calendar items...

B

You're missing the point. You can use this hack and end up with nothing but corrupted data and a TM backup feature that's totally unreliable and probably useless.

I can confirm that this hack will create nothing but misery for you. I've been using this hack for over 3 months now and can say with authority - use at your own risk.

[balamw]

You're missing the point.
You are making an assumption that there is no other form of backup or safety net.

Given these (realistic) alternatives:


No backups
Keep using whatever current form of backup you use


If TM over AEBS with hack allows you to recover even one more file it is inherently useful.

B

[CybrMike]

I'm trying to set TM up over my Infrant ReadyNAS. I've created an HFS+ image and mounted it. I created the .com.apple.timemachine.supported file but can't change the ownership to root:admin. It ignores that command when I try. Something to do with the fact that I mounted it with my own username.

Anyone know how to change ownership of a specific file on a disk image to root:admin?

I tried mounting the drive as root to no avail.

[smashingnick]

I gotta side with bxs. Doesn't anyone here think that Apple didn't have a darn good reason for pulling support for this? Odds would seem to be pretty good that you'll run into whatever problem Apple found.

As much of an Apple fanboy as I am I do not trust Apple to make those kind of decisions for me. I do believe Apple will make decisions based on market trends like balamw said, but more importantly I think Apple limits features because they view them as not "user friendly" enough and they have no problem screwing the more tech savvy of us.....

I just wanna try this out, test it for myself, and see if it can be a trustworthy backup solution. If not, I have a trusty rsync wrapper script that hasn't failed me yet.

Worst case: I have to physically plug in an eternal drive to use time machine. But the part that pisses me off about this the most is that in this age of wireless this and that i shouldn't have to do that. Should I?

[Djmx]

Question - I have a Ethernet External Drive.. That is connected to my Airport that i access thru out my house and saved things on it.. It's a LACILE or whatever u called. So there is no usb plug i am able to use. Any Ideas...? Please?? Thanks!

[QuarterSwede]

Apparently someone figured out how to get it to work with AirDisk and possibly other Network Shares.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4396466#post4396466

First plug your airport disk directly to your mac and set up time machine to use it. If you want to let it back up now this is fine or you can stop it and let it back up when its plugged back into the AEBS.

Time machine creates a file in the root directory of the disk called ".(Some hexdecimal number)" it appears this file has to be in the root of the network shared directory. In my case I use user accounts to manage my airport disk so the directory that it actually shares out is called /Shared on my disk. So I simply move the .23468f43400 file or whatever it may be called to the /Shared directory. If you let it back up while plugged in locally you will also have to move the .sparsebundle file to the /Shared directory.

Eject the disk and plug it back into the AEBS and mount it via AFP and time machine should pick it right up. This method should work for any afp share not just airport disks.

[Djmx]

BUT my hard-drive is ETHERNET BASED.. not USB/FIREWARE connectable... and it connecs directly to the airport...

[Veri]

I gotta side with bxs. Doesn't anyone here think that Apple didn't have a darn good reason for pulling support for this?
It might be a business reason rather than technical. If they want to market the AEBS as a backup solution eventually, or perhaps the Mac Nano as a general home server, they don't want to make it easy to use an arbitrary remote machine for backups.

Browsing through posts, they've introduced some sort of hash in the form of a dot-file. So far, it seems this has to be generated locally. Perhaps backup to a remote Leopard box works because the remote box knows how to generate the hash. It might be fairly basic, e.g. based only on the volume name. Just like the hash required on the database for new iPods, this might be Apple's way of saying "we know you going to find a way around this, but we're going to make it difficult enough to discourage the vast majority."

[mountainbiker]

The (chmod/chown - first) workaround definitely allowed Time Machine to see my Air Disks over the AEBS. It began the Time Machine backup as I saw a folder being created on the Air Disk and a dialog box with progression bar saying it was doing a backup; however, it soon locked up my system. (It didn't surprise me as iTunes with my Air Disks does it 90% of the time as well.) After hard rebooting, it would lock up anytime the Air Disk associated with Time Machine was attached (as it was most likely trying to do its work). I finally had to turn Time Machine off.

I am running a MacBook Pro with the non-gigabit AEBS. I have 3 different makes (WD, LaCie, and Maxtor) of USB drives attached to the AEBS formatted HFS. I have had similar issues with my AEBS and Air Disks under Tiger as well as Leopard. My AEBS is running f/w 7.1.1 and not 7.2.1. With the latter f/w, I couldn't even attach the drives.

I am going to go try the 2nd workaround, i.e., do the initial backup with a drive directly connected.

[martymcr]

My non-gigabyte AEBS also randomly disconnects disks on both wired and wireless connections. It also did the same under Tiger - it effectively renders it useless for any sort of regular backup so I had to resort to direct USB connection to my iMac.

Hopefully Apple will sort the disk sharing issues.

Has anyone got a Gigabyte AEBS? Do you get the same random disconnects of connected drives?

[Djmx]

Can SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME..!! i am like being ignored. My HDD is a LACIE Ethernet Drive connected to my aiport Extreme.. not the (new N airport) the spaceship looking one. I can access my files and everything thru my work easily.. what can i do so i can access it thru time machine i am not able to connected via USB cuz it's Network Based Drive.. Please let me know. Thanks.

[randgalt]

Well thank me later :) I got it working fellas. It was there in front of our faces with the exception of doing a chown and chmod.

Someone else please confirm I will post steps.
1) disconnect airport disk and plug into computer as a USB drive directly.
2) Set up time machine to use this volume.
3) In terminal cd to volume "cd /Volume/HDD"
4) In terminal "touch .com.apple.timemachine.supported" this will create an invisible file.
5) In terminal "sudo chown root:admin .com.apple.timemachine.supported"
6) In terminal "sudo chmod 1775 .com.apple.timemachine.supported"
7) In terminal "ls -l -a" the .com.apple.timemachine.supported file should be -rwxrwxr-t
8) eject disk, unplug from mac, plug into Airport.
9) mount at mac using connect to server in finder (command k) and afp://airportname.local./HDname
10) see if time machine now sees the drive and tries to use it.

I've been having major TM problems (it never finishes backing up). But, to test, I tried the steps above and they worked for (at least until TM died and I had to reformat the disk - twice).

[Cidroliin]

Thanks Aaron,

I'm trying to follow your instructions but get hung up at the cd /Volume/HDD command in Terminal--I'm not Unix-literate. I've been trying the name "Time Machine backups" which my Mac gave the drive in place of either "Volume" or "HDD" but I keep getting "no such file or directory" or "too many arguments" error messages. I'm sure it's not complicated but I can't find it.

Can you help?

Thx, Cidrolin

[CLuv]

Got A@aron's workaround to work last night. TM saw the Airdisk that is connected to a non-Gig AEBS, and started the backup last night. Only problem was at some point the Airdisk "ejected" itself while I slept, so the backup didn't finish. I believe I left when over 1.0GB of 40.7GB was copied to the Airdisk. Will try again this week where I can watch it from start to finish.

[jkc120]

Will this work with an NFS mount and an hdiutil-created HFS+ image?

I've tried the following:

* hdiutil create -type SPARSE -volname TimeMachine -size 100g -fs HFS+J -autostretch timemachine
* mv timemachine.sparseimage /Volumes/backup (this is an NFS mount)
* hdiutil attach -readwrite -owners on /Volumes/backup/timemachine.sparseimage

Then I followed your example commands to change the permissions/ownership of the .com.apple.timemachine.supported file.

However, Time Machine does not see the Volume. :( I can see it at /Volumes/TimeMachine, Time Machine just does not like it.

Any ideas?

[Wender]

...I believe I left when over 1.0GB of 40.7GB was copied to the Airdisk. Will try again this week where I can watch it from start to finish.

Oh yeah, good luck with that. Bring the popcorn :-)

No seriously - it seems to work for me. Plugged in the hard drive on my iMac, started TM, did a full backup because it seemed like a good idea at the time, ejected, connected the HD to the AEBS and mounted it. Icon is a TM drive. Started TM but message said "not enough space" because it can't use the already backed up data - it creates a sparse image which it mounts and then copies to that image (like SuperDuper! does when backing up to an airdisk).

So I had to delete the old files, then run TM again and now it's ticking away sloooooowly. Would probably take a few days to do a full backup of 350GB of data...

[scifi451]

Can SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME..!! i am like being ignored. My HDD is a LACIE Ethernet Drive connected to my aiport Extreme.. not the (new N airport) the spaceship looking one. I can access my files and everything thru my work easily.. what can i do so i can access it thru time machine i am not able to connected via USB cuz it's Network Based Drive.. Please let me know. Thanks.

Why not plug in your hard drive to your ethernet port on your computer?

[CLuv]

Wender, that is true, I don't know if I have enough popcorn here for that. Start to finish watching wouldn't be exciting at all. Glad I walked away and let it run while I went into D.C. for about 4 hours. Last night it had 40.7GB to back up, and tonight it's down to 29.08GB to complete. In the 4.5 hours it's been running it's done 3.94GB of the remaining 29.08. At this rate, it'll take another day of running to do the first full backup.
Maybe it'll be done by the time I wake up for work tomorrow. One can only hope.

[rekoil]

its *multiple* hard links they had to put in.... as in multiple links to the same file. gah, i dunno, read the appleinsider article! ;)

Actually, it's not the ability to hard link multiple files to the same inode - this is supported in most filesystems today - but the ability to create a hard link that points to a directory, which most filesystems (ext3, pre-Leopard HFS+, UFS, etc) do not allow.

[CookieMac]

Mine seems to work ...

I have a Macbook Pro and a Lacie D2 Extreme drive ... I plugged the drive in to the computer ... Activated Time Machine and away it went ... Once it had completed I removed it and attached it to my Airport Extreme ...

Time Machine recognized the drive and scheduled a full back up for later that evening as it said something about not being able to read my original back up (Can't quite remember what it said). It then took an absolute age to to do its first backup ... I'm talking 24 hours ish ... It's now doing hourly back ups as I would expect !!! All appears correct ... :)

I have the odd problem of the drive disconnecting and having to reboot the base station but I'm looking in to that ... :confused:

[CLuv]

CookieMac, I would be interested in what you find out about the drive disconnecting and having to reboot the AEBS. I've been doing that a lot more now with TM enabled on the AirDisk. Had no real issues before at all.
Before individuals flame, yes I understand, this was removed by Apple and maybe this is a reason as to why it's been removed, so why take my chances? Trust me I understand, but it's so much easier then always having to plug and unplug the USB and power cord every time I want to use it, considering I use a laptop and I have another laptop accessing the AirDisk also.

[CookieMac]

Right ...

I've done a couple of very minor experiments and this seems to be the best solution ... So far !!!

The problem is that my AEBS needs to be reset in order to allow access to the drive should I sleep my Mac or take it out of range. When it reconnects to the AEBS it will only try to reconnect to the drive as a guest and not as the registered user and so restarting seems the only way to sort this ...

My solution is that prior to you closing the lid, putting your mac to sleep or switching it off you need to eject the drive manually using the finder ...

When you switch the Mac back on, the drive should be rediscovered and mounted, although Time Machine still says waiting for a drive ...

You then need to give Time Machine a little nudge by exploring the drive in the finder just until it briefly displays the backup file ... (This file is one of the first I see and so I don't know if simply exploring the drive does the same thing.)

Time Machine will then see the drive and gets back on with it's job ...

Might try allowing the Guest access settings for the drive and see if that makes any difference ...

Anyone else got any suggestions or alternatives ??? :confused::apple:

[cdd543]

Yeah mine seems to be working as well, but it takes forever.

[CookieMac]

Yeah mine seems to be working as well, but it takes forever.

Mine took forever the first couple of times ... It doesn't take long at all now ... The last update was only 676 kb so didn't take long at all ...
:)

[CLuv]

CookieMac or A@aron, did any of you have issues with the 1st backup that is done wirelessly? Mine never seems to complete, since the drive keeps disconnecting at some point overnight. Then when I've tried to initiate a backup, it stays on preparing for hours and does nothing. Is it possible my DHCP Lease was causing this issue, since I had it on the default of 4 hours in the Airport Utility setup? I just changed it to 4 days to see if that would help.
Weird thing is, Time Machine would show no new backup, but stay Next Backup: When Drive Available, but it's still mounted and I could access it through Finder.

Thanks for your help and insight.

[CLuv]

I officially threw in the towel, after many, many failed attempts, the wireless backup would never truly finish. So I broke down and bought a WD 250GB Passport Drive. It fits right underneath the iLap, and slides right into the front lip to stay secure.
I will wait until TM works on the AEBS after reading the following article:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/31/briefly_apple_still_working_on_time_machines_airport_disk_support.html

Thank you all for your help.

[Mindflux]

everyone, this worked wonders for me and is easier than the rest of the solutions imho

Run this from terminal and load up time machine to select your drive! You don't need to hook the drive up to the Mac first, you dont have to go chowning files and all that nonsense.


defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1

[mccoy88f]

Now TM show me AirDisk

But when i select it TM don't go over....

My Disk si FAT32 format.

Any help?:o

[mccoy88f]

Yeeaa

It Now Func.
I Have Used Ip Address For Mount Drive (instead Name Of Share)
Tm Is Now Preparing For Making My Backup

I Will Update Soon!

[Mindflux]

Now TM show me AirDisk

But when i select it TM don't go over....

My Disk si FAT32 format.

Any help?:o


TM only works w/ HFS+ drives.. ?

[mccoy88f]

TM func with FAT32 only if is over Network Drive.
An hack is to make the first backup with your FAT32 HD using NETWORK DRIVE
and them connect in local and try.
Remeber that local and remote drive must have same name.

I have made a simple app (based on applescript) to enable and disable TM support for unsupported disk
called TM Manager
Find here:
http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/26160/tm-manager
or here
http://antonellomigliorelli.googlepages.com/tm

Thanks Mindflux for your hack!

[/dev/toaster]

Not entirely true. It can backup to network drives, but they have to be running off of a Leopard-based system.

Did you use any of the seeds ? During my extensive testing (which a lot was revolving around timemachine and how we are going to bring it into the company) It worked fine over SMB and AFP to none Leopard machines ... yes, even AFP to a Linux box worked fine.

It *DID* work, but Apple for reasons unknown pulled the plug on it last minute. If they don't fix this in 10.5.1, I am going to be rather pissed.

[/dev/toaster]

I have not been able to make this work over SMB or AFP (non-Leopard). I even tried a reboot but that work around isn't working for me.

[/dev/toaster]

TM func with FAT32 only if is over Network Drive.
An hack is to make the first backup with your FAT32 HD using NETWORK DRIVE
and them connect in local and try.
Remeber that local and remote drive must have same name.

I have made a simple app (based on applescript) to enable and disable TM support for unsupported disk
called TM Manager
Find here:
http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/26160/tm-manager
or here
http://antonellomigliorelli.googlepages.com/tm

Thanks Mindflux for your hack!

Very interesting ... I ran it and now my SMB share is there again! I am going to try AFP when I get home.

My question is, why did your app work when the command above didn't work for me. What did you do ?

[mccoy88f]

I don't know why...
I use the final release of leopard shipped me by apple...

[/dev/toaster]

I was able to get SMB to show up, and I am now backing up both Laptops. Which on a side note, I hate SMB is just too fscking slow.

However, I have not been successful getting it to see my AFP share on my server. That is a real bummer, because I would rather use AFP then SMB.

I am going to keep trying.

[Me1000]

everyone, this worked wonders for me and is easier than the rest of the solutions imho

Run this from terminal and load up time machine to select your drive! You don't need to hook the drive up to the Mac first, you dont have to go chowning files and all that nonsense.


defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1

DUDE! YOU ARE MY HERO!

http://digg.com/apple/Time_Machine_backup_to_unsupported_drive
Digg link!

[ksmith80209]

everyone, this worked wonders for me and is easier than the rest of the solutions imho

Run this from terminal and load up time machine to select your drive! You don't need to hook the drive up to the Mac first, you dont have to go chowning files and all that nonsense.


defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1
Holy crap! This really works! I've tried lots of other stuff but nothing else helped - nice job!

[samh004]

everyone, this worked wonders for me and is easier than the rest of the solutions imho

Run this from terminal and load up time machine to select your drive! You don't need to hook the drive up to the Mac first, you dont have to go chowning files and all that nonsense.


defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1

That does in fact work, even if I can't load the disk in the Finder, it sees it in Time Machine. I guess I better do a backup and wait the 24 hours or so it'll take to see if it's really what I want.

[dantidote]

OK, question: Everything works great... but what about if I need to restore the entire drive using the dvd? When I pop the Leopard disk in and choose "recover Time Machine" It doesn't see anything. Is there a way to mount the backup in Terminal, so it shows up?

[Mindflux]

That does in fact work, even if I can't load the disk in the Finder, it sees it in Time Machine. I guess I better do a backup and wait the 24 hours or so it'll take to see if it's really what I want.


I had this problem too, where I could not browse the Air Disk with the finder after I mounted it (desktop icon). I deleted my keychain for the Airport Extreme password and reconnected, worked fine and fixed it not working in finder and a related unmount problem i was having.

[Mindflux]

DUDE! YOU ARE MY HERO!

http://digg.com/apple/Time_Machine_backup_to_unsupported_drive
Digg link!


Dugg ;)

[wwooden]

Yup, typed that into terminal and now backup is running to my AirPort Extreme. Now I just have to wait for it to finish the 122 gigs :rolleyes:.

[tslusser]

Hello,

I am getting an error in the log files when I select an NFS volume in TimeMachine. The error is...

11/14/07 8:48:57 AM System Preferences[395] Time Machine: Error 250277664 returned by NetAuthOpenSession()

Anyone know how to work around this?

Thanks,

Ted

[gvegastiger]

I have a network drive that I can mount and move files on and off. How come Time Machine can't see it, and will that script help with this?

[felix-fi]

see my post on this thread...

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5918065#5918065

You have been warned.

[hscottm]

felix's warning are words of wisdom - anyone using this hack and SMB shares should read it (and understand it might write over all of your backups).

I am using the TMShow.. hack in parallel with a regular backup regimen (both to the same Maxtor Shared Storage unit at work) so am willing to experiment..

Anyway a problem I am having is that my computer is a laptop which I use at home and work. I can't get the laptop to "see" the network drive when I leave work, go home, and then come back in the morning. Do I need to always re-mount the SMB share by hand? I thought time machine would be set up to go and re-mount it as needed..

thanks.

[netdog]

If the solution is this simple, why doesn't Apple implement it?

When is Time Machine going to support AirDisks?!? I have seen no mention of it in descriptions of the 10.5.2 seed. :mad:

[G4R2]

If the solution is this simple, why doesn't Apple implement it?

When is Time Machine going to support AirDisks?!? I have seen no mention of it in descriptions of the 10.5.2 seed. :mad:


I suspect that the reason Apple hasn't implemented this is that they can't guarantee it will work correctly with all the drives on the market. Since this data backup is so essential it is likely that Apple doesn't want to put itself in a position where it a key feature like this, that users will probably rely on in worse case scenarios to recover data, doesn't work properly over wireless. There could be a lot of angry customers and bad press should it not work correctly or reliably when needed.

Apple evidently is more confident with Time Machine over a wired drive. Maybe some users have gotten it to work via Airport. I'm not sure how I feel about using an undocumented feature that Apple has intentionally disabled for a reason as a means of restoring my data. Sure, there could be some marketing or IP reason behind it. I would err on the side of caution and presume that Apple chose not to implement this yet because it hasn't been sufficiently tested or past testing has demonstrated that it is buggy.

[cmarshall]

I used the command line hack to enable unsupported disks.

First, the setup:

I use a MacBook Pro 17, with Gigabit Ethernet. I have one external 80GB FW800 Drive.

After careful deliberation, Time Machine declares that I have 1.3 million files in need of backing up (first time), at 127 GB.

I have an Airport Extreme Base Station, connected to a 1.3TB Drobo. The Drobo (http://drobo.com) is an ideal network drive, as it is a "Slobo." It ain't exactly a racecar. However, it is very, very safe, and offers RAID 5 reliability at a fraction of the price.

I connected the Drobo to the APE Base Station, then the APE up to my network, turned off the wireless (security -call me tinfoil), and hooked up the GB Ethernet to my laptop. I have the share being advertised using Bonjour, with account permissions.

I have to mount the drive (very easy in Leopard). I use Time Machine to select the drive.

The first backup is a doozy. It is critical that you let it go from start to finish in one swoop. I tried breaking it up into parts, and that never worked. In my case, it took two days over GB ethernet. I don't even want to THINK about how long it would take over even 802.11n.

Another critical aspect is that, however you connect for the first backup is how you need to connect forever afterwards. I tried connecting to the backup via wireless (just an experiment) after the Big One, and got reset to the beginning. I have to connect by wired Ethernet from now on. I can live with that.

In any case, it now works. It ain't fast. Time Machine is not efficient at all. My wife's computer uses a FW800 to connect to a 750GB LaCie, and that is a decent speed.

YMMV.

[tdhurst]

I currently back up my powerbook to a hard drive connected to my server, which is connected to my AEBS via ethernet.

It's SLLLLOOOOWWWW, but then again, it is only 802.11g.

It's still easier than plugging a hard drive in. I just mount the backup drive once a day (or leave it mounted if I'm at home) and I have no issues.

[cmarshall]

It DOES work with Wireless if the initial backup was done via wired, but there seem to be a couple of caveats:

1) As mentioned, it is S L O W. Darn near unusable.

2) The first time I tried the Wireless connect, I used the Finder "Go" menu, and selected the same volume as I had the wired connection. Trying to use that resulted in Time Machine acting as if there was no previous backup.

However, the second time I tried it, I used a shortcut saved from the wired connection, and that works (albeit slowly). Not sure what the difference can be. There may have been other factors of which I'm not aware.

I will say that Time Machine is not at all efficient, and was obviously not designed for network backup. My wife's computer with the directly connected FW800 drive is wonderful.

[ascender]

I set this up for the two Macbooks in our house today to see what it was like. I'm just backing up the user directorys to a My Book connected via USB to the Airport. I have to say I was expecting the worse, but so far so good. I wasn't quite sure what would happen when I tried this, but I'm delighted with the results. Yes, the initial backup took a good few hours for 9Gb or so, but Time Machine is fully functioning on both now, so all is well.

I'm not sure why Apple didn't implement this with some sort of caveat that the first, full backup should be done while directly connected. Then Leopard would recognise the disk once it went across to become an Airport Disk.

[chem]

Like everyone else, I have a USB external backup drive and an AEBS.

Apple is never, ever going to get me to buy a "Time Capsule" to replace my AEBS+external. Just make Time Machine work with my damn AirDisk!

I have no problem plugging the disk into my laptop once a week to back things up. No extra $299 from me, Steve.

[rockstarjoe]

Has anyone gotten this to successfully work with a Buffalo Terastation? I have a 1TB terasystem, and don't really feel like shelling out for a Time Capsule just to do my backups over the network.

I ran the terminal command, and I can now see my Terastation shares in the Time Machine options to select a drive. However, if I choose one of the drives Time Machine will try to back up and then say that the backup failed. Anyone have any ideas why? Thanks for any help!

[RedTomato]

Has anyone gotten this to successfully work with a Buffalo Terastation? I have a 1TB terasystem, and don't really feel like shelling out for a Time Capsule just to do my backups over the network.


I'm also interested. I have the Buffalo 500 gb netstation version, which I brought specially for Time Machine.

Just had a tricky conversation with my boss yesterday where I had to explain I'd jumped the gun in buying the Buffalo, and that maybe we should buy the Time Capsule instead...

[cmarshall]

1) I have an AEBS (http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/).
2) To it, I connect a 1.6TB Drobo (http://www.drobo.com/). It is formatted and empty.
3) I set up the AEBS to share the disk using accounts and Bonjour (I think the Bonjour may be important).
4) In the terminal, I type:
defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1
5) I use a direct wired Ethernet (1GBps) connection to the AEBS for the initial backup.
6) I let the initial backup run COMPLETELY. In my case, this took two days.
7) I make an alias to the Time Machine disk on my Mac.
8) I unplug the Ethernet, and connect to the AEBS using wireless.
9) I use the alias to mount the disk.
10) I select the mounted disk as my TM disk.
11) I do a "Backup Now."
12) The backups happen automatically from then on.

I have to make sure I do at least one authentication after restart. The backup will mount the backup drive automatically, even if the disk is not mounted, as long as the initial authentication has been done to unlock the key chain.

Browsing TM over wireless is S L O W. You need to wait quite a while for it to load up.

I've been backing up since December, and I have done a couple of restores.

It works. The Drobo knocks the Time Capsule into a cocked hat. It's as good as (or better than) a RAID 5 drive.

[iPhil]

1) I have an AEBS (http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/).
2) To it, I connect a 1.6TB Drobo (http://www.drobo.com/). It is formatted and empty.
3) I set up the AEBS to share the disk using accounts and Bonjour (I think the Bonjour may be important).
4) In the terminal, I type:
defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1
5) I use a direct wired Ethernet (1GBps) connection to the AEBS for the initial backup.
6) I let the initial backup run COMPLETELY. In my case, this took two days.
7) I make an alias to the Tim Machine disk on my Mac.
8) I unplug the Ethernet, and connect to the AEBS using wireless.
9) I use the alias to mount the disk.
10) I select the mounted disk as my TM disk.
11) I do a "Backup Now."
12) The backups happen automatically from then on.

I have to make sure I do at least one authentication after restart. The backup will mount the backup drive automatically, even if the disk is not mounted, as long as the initial authentication has been done to unlock the key chain.

Browsing TM over wireless is S L O W. You need to wait quite a while for it to load up.

I've been backing up since December, and I have done a couple of restores.

It works. The Drobo knocks the Time Capsule into a cocked hat. It's as good as (or better than) a RAID 5 drive.


So you think the drobo worth the green backs? :o


I'll wait for apple supplied support for AEBS backup solution.. :)

[tfire67]

Time Machine is a big reason why I upgraded to 10.5, only to find out I can't even use my AEBS + ext. HD for Time Machine. I hated MS for this type of thing and I don't like the fact that this FEELS like bait and switch. I could be completely wrong here but should we be seeing a C.A. lawsuit over this issue? I mean, they advertise this thing as if it's fully functional without much caveat about hardware, then when it doesn't work I see all this advertisement about these Time Capsules.

I hope they fix this soon, I'm almost tempted to return my copy of 10.5 but would hate to have to uninstall, yuk...
:confused::mad:

[cmarshall]

So you think the drobo worth the green backs? :o

Yup. It is RAID 5 stability at a fraction of the cost. Awesome piece of kit. It is not a speed demon, however, so it's an ideal network drive. I got a good deal on mine. I have 1.6TB of heavy-duty storage, and it cost me about $700. Normally, it would be about $850 ($450 for the Drobo, and $100 each for 500GB drives). Still a tremendous value when compared to RAID 5 arrays. The ones we use at work cost $5,000 - $7,000 each for 1.5TB systems.

I'll wait for apple supplied support for AEBS backup solution.. :)

In that case, I will just switch it over to their system, which I won't use unless it supports this configuration. This has worked flawlessly for me. I now suspect that the reason they disabled network TM backups was so they could sell the Time Capsule. The Time Capsule is a single delicate disk. The Drobo is a hot-swappable array of striped disks. I don't see Apple being able to beat that.

I'm a pro, and I don't mind putting in the extra effort and know-how to get this solution working. It is not a solution I'd recommend for consumers. It also means that you gotta lock down your network pretty well. This goes for Time Capsule as well. The AEBS doesn't have a good firewall in it. I use a Linksys router as a firewall, and the AEBS is behind that. I use the AEBS for wireless, in full "tinfoil hat" mode.

[rockstarjoe]

I managed to get it to work with my Terastation by using the "enable unsupported drive" terminal command... it turns out the error I was getting was caused by the fact that I didn't have enough space to do a full backup (duh!).

Anyway it took about 2.5 days to do the first backup (ethernet), but then I had a lot of problems trying to re-mount the time machine disk after restarts, and it had a lot of issues when actually trying to browse time machine backups. So I decided that I am going to hold off on using this feature until it is supported by apple. Back to using Backup for now.

[cmarshall]

I managed to get it to work with my Terastation by using the "enable unsupported drive" terminal command... it turns out the error I was getting was caused by the fact that I didn't have enough space to do a full backup (duh!).

Anyway it took about 2.5 days to do the first backup (ethernet), but then I had a lot of problems trying to re-mount the time machine disk after restarts, and it had a lot of issues when actually trying to browse time machine backups. So I decided that I am going to hold off on using this feature until it is supported by apple. Back to using Backup for now.

I had to use an alias I created from the mounted Ethernet drive to re-mount the drive in Wireless (takes a bit of time, as it has to try wired first). For some reason, browsing to the drive in the Network Browser didn't work. The TM backup will re-mount the backup image (without re-mounting the actual drive -sort of strange) without any intervention, as long as the Keychain has been unlocked, and you have the drive account set up in the Keychain.

I'm not kidding. This works, and works well, but it took me a week of trial and error to get to this point. The steps I outline above are what I did to make it work.

[CLuv]

Zippy chance a C.A. lawsuit will happen, especially when Apple disclosed "features are subject to change" before Leopard ever shipped.

[Cinemagic]

Great info. This is working for me like a champ! I did have a little glitch, however. I had a USB backup that was already in use. I attached it to my Airport and ran the script. The drive was recognized and was selected. But I could not access backups nor could I add a backup. I reconnected the drive directly to my MacPro and did a re-format. Now with a clean drive, I reconnected it to my Airport. Now everything seemed to work properly. The backup went well and I can access the backup volume. Withe such a simple solution to wireless Time Machine, it makes me wonder what Apple knows that we don't. There must be a specific reason it was disabled. Some may think it's so that they can make it specific to their new Time Capsule. May be just that. I did notice that while Time Machine is doing it's routine hourly backup, Internet access is noticeably slower. Maybe they are trying to make it backup only when there is no other wireless traffic. Whatever the case, I very much like the wireless TIme Machine and appreciate the information.

[cmarshall]

If you use Parallels Desktop or VMWare Fusion, updates and changes to the installs can cause the whole virtual disk to get "touched."

I did this yesterday. I ran Windows updates on all my VMs, and was stunned at how long the backup took (I had to truncate it. I hope I can finish it tonight).

I have a wired cable that I run when I see more than about 1GB needs backing up. Even so, I couldn't finish half my backup before leaving for work this morning.

[edd-d]

This is how I see it might turn out or how it might be:

Like others have said there just isn't a secure way to backup wirelessly for any drive [which sounds iffy because if you can access any AirDisk naturally, why can't you just send files to it... I may just not understand the how TM works all that well].

Apple still hasn't been able to fix a possible problem with TM - AirDisk backups or its something their still working on [as it was a feature in one of the 10.5.2 builds] and will be unveiled maybe around the time Time Capsule comes out or shortly afterward [this seems to be the most optimistic]

Additionally, they may not like the speed issue with how long it takes. I mean, how long would the average user want to wait for a large backup or even the initial backup if it were to take two days? Wasn't the point of Time Machine to make backup easy for the average user? [Hence Time Capsule to take care of everything].

Finally, Apple's laughing it up for possibly selling more AEBS and now is going to make a buck off of Time Capsule.

10.5.2 was released today and no AirDisk backups... I still have some hope but I might be stupid for thinking so.... I mean, they can't fully ignore the customer... can they?

[cmarshall]

Additionally, they may not like the speed issue with how long it takes. I mean, how long would the average user want to wait for a large backup or even the initial backup if it were to take two days? Wasn't the point of Time Machine to make backup easy for the average user? [Hence Time Capsule to take care of everything].

The speed issue is a real concern. Big backups (even over 1Gbps Ethernet) take FOREVER with TM. A HUGE part of this is the "Preparing" phase. Some of that is probably the old backups being sorted out, etc., but a lot of it is probably a file-by-file comparison with what's on your machine. Time Capsule probably has a client/server architecture, like most modern VCS systems.

I won't use TC, because it is a single delicate disk, and I really need my Drobo, with its 4 robust disks. If they came out with a "TC AEBS," I'd get it in a heartbeat.

I mean, they can't fully ignore the customer... can they?

You mean Steve "Reality Distortion Field" Jobs? Oh, yes he can.

[Richardismac]

I am having a real big time machine problem

ok so i have my LaCie 500GB hard drive connected to my Airport Extreme Basestation. and i go to Time machine Preferences and it says backing up and it completes and does that every hour, it has done this for a day going on two days and when i go to time machine in my dock the time machine program runs and goes to the screen. and i can't go "back in time" to view my old files. now i deleted a file that i didn't need just to see if i could view it but i couldn't go "back in time"


Someone help me with this i want to be able to use this wonderful program, someone help me with this

thanks

[cmarshall]

I am having a real big time machine problem

ok so i have my LaCie 500GB hard drive connected to my Airport Extreme Basestation. and i go to Time machine Preferences and it says backing up and it completes and does that every hour, it has done this for a day going on two days and when i go to time machine in my dock the time machine program runs and goes to the screen. and i can't go "back in time" to view my old files. now i deleted a file that i didn't need just to see if i could view it but i couldn't go "back in time"


Someone help me with this i want to be able to use this wonderful program, someone help me with this

thanks

It sounds like the first backup did not complete from start to finish. The symptoms you describe are exactly the ones I encountered when that happened. Also, you need to give subsequent backups enough time to complete, which can be damn slow over wireless. If a backup is not allowed to complete (Preparing-Backing Up-Finishing), then it won't appear in the backups.

Once you have the first backup complete (I suggest using wired Ethernet, because it can take a couple of days), then you need to use an alias to the mounted backup disk to enable subsequent mounts, and select the disk in the prefs when it is mounted the first time (don't disconnect after the first backup then use the Go Menu to remount -that didn't work for me).

I'd suggest wiping the drive, and starting from scratch using exactly the process I outline in my post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4795657&postcount=156).