New iMacs Released (1GHz and 1.25GHz)

[MacRumors]

Apple updated the iMac today, bringing the top speed of the iMac up to 1.25GHz.

15" iMac
1GHz PowerPC g4
NVidia GeForce 4 MX
256MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Hard Drive
Bluetooth Option
USB 2.0
$1299

17" iMac
1.25GHz iMac
NVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
256MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Hard Drive
Bluetooth Option
USB 2.0
$1799

[mvc]

What, no "19"?

[DanUk2003]

Woohoo!!!!!


:D


Reasonable specs.... fantastic!!

[gopher]

And new iPods too. 20 GB and 40 GB.

[mvc]

Now the powerbooks MUST update or die a horrible death!

[stefman]

Nice update! The iMacs are looking good!!

Now, I really think we need PB updates next week in Paris (or else SJ will have nothing special to say).

[Ti_Pousin]

I would have tough they add the 1 Mb cache since the G5 is out to add some punch. And damn the GForce MX4 is still there what the heck!

Not impressive at all.

[Sonofhaig]

1.25 isn't terrible. I would consider.......

[potato]

New 20 and 40 gig iPods
"edit"
Someone beat me to the bunch. Sorry for the double post

[gunb0y]

hmmmm maybe i should convince my parents to upgrade...

[moby1]

Originally posted by Sonofhaig
1.25 isn't terrible. I would consider.......

Gee, that makes it faster than my PowerBook...(*sigh*).

[srobert]

Could someone post last model's spec and new ones side by side?

[CmdrLaForge]

Finally,
- the update looks good.

AND: the new advertising !

iPod announcement really looks different !

[LOZ23]

Ok, let me get this straight. The emacs are as fast as the powerbooks (pre school machine)and the imacs are now faster than the powerbooks....... Don't get it, can someone explain:confused:

[CmdrLaForge]

Hi,

anyone heart about taht audible before ? Is this new or ist it just me that I haven't recognized it before ?

Anyone who knows ?

[chazmox]

Yea, no powerbooks is driving me crazy too!!!!

This is nuts!

[kjwebb]

I must admit that Apple were a bit sneaky in releasing the new iMacs and iPods

BTW. Apple Australia haven't updated the site yet even though the Apple Store Australia went down aswell. Good thing I don't have the money or I would be complaining (maybe tomorrow the updated site will be there)

[nickmcghie]

hmm the image of the new imac on apple's main page seems to be broken..

[MitjaP]

It won't run faster that the PB. Do you wonder why?

It has no level 3 memory!!!! And PB does!

If I predict the new PB, I'll sey there will be 1 Ghz and 1,25 Ghz, just like the old iMacs and PowerBooks stil are.

[cubist]

The FX 5200 is pretty good... and the new base RAM at 256MB is a good move too. This is a good update.

[srobert]

With all the wireless mouse/keyboards rumors I was expecting that any updated products would come with built-in bluetooth. Only the custom-built iMac has it.

Sure, you can have it "custom-built" in the two lower ones too, but these orders often take longer to ship and are harder to find on shelf in non Apple mac stores.

[Lanbrown]

Originally posted by Ti_Pousin
I would have tough they add the 1 Mb cache since the G5 is out to add some punch. And damn the GForce MX4 is still there what the heck!

Not impressive at all.

They took the original 17", added in a faster processor and put a 15" screen on it. There is the new low end. One rumor has said the iMac has had a USB 2.0 for sometime now. They added a new GPU to the 17" though.

Cache is expensive; they would have to raise the price.

[hvfsl]

The 17inch iMac is now capable of running Doom3 pretty well. Although the iMacs still can't compete with PCs (in terms of speed) at the price Apple is charging for them. What would have been better would be Radeon 9600 in 17in and Geforce FX5200 in the 15in.

[Squire]

Cool.

A modest update- pleasant but not groundbreaking. That's good for me. At least my current 1 GHz iMac isn't obsolete.

Someone touched on this earlier: Steve must be planning to introduce PowerBooks next week. I mean, Apple wouldn't release new products before a keynote and then not introduce anything during the keynote, would they?

Methinks there's something rotten in the state of Cupertino.

Squire

[DakotaGuy]

With the update the 15" is a much better buy now. A little better video card, bigger hard drive, 1Ghz processor, 133Mhz bus, DDR ram, USB 2.0. The last 15" had none of this for the same price. The eMac 800 is the last desktop Mac under 1Ghz. I would expect in the next month of so we will see a simular eMac upgrade so we should not have any Mac desktops under a Ghz anymore. Wow that took a few years...

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by hvfsl
The 17inch iMac is now capable of running Doom3 pretty well. Although the iMacs still can't compete with PCs (in terms of speed) at the price Apple is charging for them. What would have been better would be Radeon 9600 in 17in and Geforce FX5200 in the 15in.

I agree. Maybe the "better" grfx cards run a little too hot?
A good thing that the prices are (a little) down aswell.
I still think the 1024 x 768 resolution of the 15" isn't gr8. Something like 1280 x 960 would have been nice.

[MitjaP]

I thought that it was 167 Mhz for both models....

Now I check it on Apple.com and it is, it is 167 Mhz for both models.

[AllenPSU]

I guess this breaks the rumors pattern that Apple make its announcements on Tuesdays. Wonder it this is partly to cover the gap the PB Updates are causing in the education market?

Be nice to see the PB's udated soon. Even if it is just a slightly faster CPU and USB 2.0 on the 12/17. The 15 needs AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth.

[backspinner]

Originally posted by CmdrLaForge
anyone heart about taht audible before ? Is this new or ist it just me that I haven't recognized it before ? It's there for a long time already.

[DakotaGuy]

I see they both have the 167Mhz bus with DDR ram. That should help performance some and puts a little distance from the eMac to the iMac now.

[EponymousCow]

Originally posted by CmdrLaForge
Hi,

anyone heart about taht audible before ? Is this new or ist it just me that I haven't recognized it before ?

Anyone who knows ?

Audible.com support is not new. It was introduced with a firmware update for the 1st gen iPods. Audible.com supplies "spoken word" content much like the iTMS supplies music. Once you buy, you own, with minimal DRM. Unlike iTMS, you can redownload as many times as you like.

I subscribe to their Audible Listener service. I get 2 audiobooks a month for $20 and they sent me a free solid state player. If you like audiobooks it is a good deal.

[Stella]

They've added USB 2 - but how about adding Airport Extreme and FW800?

Whilst not a breath taking upgrade, its still good - new graphics card, faster processor, USB 2 etc.

Still a high price tho - could do with more ram and a lower price - CA$1799.

[CmdrLaForge]

Hi,

with these updates today I think we can expect bigger updates next week at the Expo. I can't believe that Steve will stand on the podium with nothing in his hands.

Something bigger will come next week. I expect the G4 PB. Maybe some cool accessories. We will see.

[Omek]

Hmmm... updated iMacs, but no Powerbooks anywhere to be seen.... very strange...

[nazariteguitar]

Seems to me the G5 powerbook is emenent. Why would they announce the ipod and imac updates before the conference? They want to have more time to talk about the new G5 powerbook: the first 64bit notebook computer.:D

At least I hope so:(

[crenz]

Don't know about the US store, but the German Apple store has seen a price drop with the new iMac models that was long overdue (low end - €110, middle model - €230). Plus the high-end only has 512 MB RAM (US - 1 GB). Guess they did it so they can show off a lower price...

Also, seems nobody mentioned yet that they all have 167 MHz buses now (all DDR333-RAM), which makes them faster than the previous models (quite significant for the low-end model). Does that mean anything for the CPU used? Could it be the 7457, or still the 7455?

[mkaake]

i have this really bad feeling that this is the side by side of what we're gonna see in pb's... i really hope not - a g5 would rock... and would give me a reason to find the money to buy the laptop that i actually could use quite a bit and will soon need

*stops to breathe*

*sigh*

here's hopin

[mmmbop]

These were expected.

I would have liked to have seen a price reduction, especially on the entry model.

My brother is looking to buy one of these new machines. I'm now just wondering about the release of Panther, and whether to wait until the Expo to see if Apple announce customers buying new machines will receive Panther for a nominal fee. Will next Tuesday be the cut off date?

MARK

[tiselday]

In the tech specs, the cache size is listed to be 256 kB, so that means that the 7457 chips are still not there (they have 512 kB).

Maybe, if the production of the 7457 is so tight, they want to save them for the Powerbooks...

[Dont Hurt Me]

this now makes the imac a pretty solid choice, i expect steve to show off something new at the expo. stiil not thrilled with the fx5200 but the imac is getting better and the 1.25 g4 is solid.

[MitjaP]

Apple I want my wireless mouse for my PB 17"!!!!!!!

[MitjaP]

Apple I want my wireless mouse for my PB 17"!!!!!!!

I don't want to buy a M$ one!!!!

[nazariteguitar]

Seems to me the G5 powerbook is emenent. Why would they announce the ipod and imac updates before the conference? They want to have more time to talk about the new G5 powerbook: the first 64bit notebook computer.:D

At least I hope so:(

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by mkaake
i have this really bad feeling that this is the side by side of what we're gonna see in pb's... i really hope not - a g5 would rock... and would give me a reason to find the money to buy the laptop that i actually could use quite a bit and will soon need

I have to agree and share the same bad feeling. A measly .25 update for the powerbooks after all this time is not going to go down at all well. It's even possible that the yields of the 7457 have been so bad that SJ has to stand up and not announce new PBs!

G5 pbook? I some how doubt it. Maybe next sept?

Looks like the pbooks are going to go through the same pains that the pmacs went through.

e.

[MitjaP]

No, no, no....

Apple said: no G5 in PowerBook at least for a year!!! That means next summer.

[Photorun]

I was waiting for someone to throw out a naive G5 PB misguided load of horse hockey. Step back from the airplane glue, it ain't happening. There'll be no G5s until next year.

As far as the new specs for the iMac, pretty underwhelming. They'd be good and all, like LAST year. Considering this Apple should lower their prices a tad, maybe $200 for the top end one and $100 for the lower end to put the price for what you're really getting in line with, say, reality. It's not like the machines aren't marked up a ton anyways, Apple would still be making a mint and it'd spark more sales... than again, after watching Apple for 20 years, seems they do everything they can to NOT spark more sales.

Grrrr!

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by MitjaP
It won't run faster that the PB. Do you wonder why?

It has no level 3 memory!!!! And PB does!

Actually they may well do. The 12" doesn't have an L3 cache, and the 15" and 17" disable it when running on batteries. The iMac has a faster hard-drive and the 17" has a faster graphics card.

Originally posted by MitjaP
No, no, no....

Apple said: no G5 in PowerBook at least for a year!!! That means next summer.

No, no, no...Apple said they weren't going into the PowerBooks "anytime soon". I still don't think there will be G5 PowerBooks though.

AppleMatt

[crees!]

Originally posted by MitjaP
No, no, no....

Apple said: no G5 in PowerBook at least for a year!!! That means next summer.

Ahem... No, no, no...

Apple said: "Not any time soon." Facts are important in the rumor business.

edit: Hey AppleMatt, smart quick minds think alike ;)

[MitjaP]

I would give Apple $500 for the low-end model and $800 for the high-end.

To hell with them....

[nazariteguitar]

Originally posted by MitjaP
No, no, no....

Apple said: no G5 in PowerBook at least for a year!!! That means next summer.

they actually said "there wont be a G5 in a powerbook any time soon". SOON could be anything, besides who's to say that the development of the G5 in a powerbook wasn't rushed.

I just can't find any other explantion for the year wait in updates:mad:

[Photorun]

Interesting to note, I just went through online Apple store and placed a mock order for the iMacs and both said they were shipping same day.

Now if only they could have done this with the G5!!!

[Squire]

Originally posted by MitjaP
I would give Apple $500 for the low-end model and $800 for the high-end.

To hell with them....

What's an LCD display worth in your parts?

Squire

[MitjaP]

Ok, but when Apple SAYS it won't go in PowerBooks any time soon, they seriously mean it, I presume.

If they had the PB 17" behind the hills, they'd say it.

Look: they told us about G5 in PM about 2 months before it was ready to ship. I seriously doubt, they have plans for G5 in PB.

Just remember how long did it took them to go from G3 to G4 in PB!!!

[Lancetx]

The lack of a L3 cache in the new iMacs is rather disappointing. They should have either added the cache or lowered the prices by $100-200 across the board IMO. Overall, it's a needed upgrade, but nothing that is going to make anyone run out to buy them.

[MitjaP]

Squire the point is I'm again and again dissapointed on Apple.

I had PB 667 DVI till this summer and then I bought PB 17". The increse of the speed is minor!!!

When I remember the old days I was using a PC, I can recall that when I bought a new one, it was segnificatly faster then the old one and I did that every half a year. Now I buy a new mac every year and the speed increse is rediculous.

They are squeezing us out!!! They are more dangerous than MS!!! Why_ Becouse they don't have any judges breathing down their neck.

They just wan't to make money! And this wish is almost bigger at Apple than at MS.

[Postal]

A couple of observations:

1. Notice how the G4s in each iMac model have 256 KB of L2 cache. These aren't 7457-era G4s. Either they really don't have any good yields of 7457s, or they aren't as essential to iMacs as they are to PowerBooks. Apple may be deliberately conserving supplies of whatever 7457 chips they do get.

2. Unless my memory is hazy, Apple hasn't ever let you choose hard drive size as a BTO option on the store, but it's there now. Both 15" and 17" models can have a 160 GB drive for $100 US more.

3. Yes, it would seem silly for Apple to update iMacs AND iPods the week before Apple Expo, but not do anything when Jobs is keynoting.

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by crees!
edit: Hey AppleMatt, smart quick minds think alike ;)

Naturally ;)

AppleMatt

[iPC]

Originally posted by MitjaP
Squire the point is I'm again and again dissapointed on Apple.

I had PB 667 DVI till this summer and then I bought PB 17". The increse of the speed is minor!!!

When I remember the old days I was using a PC, I can recall that when I bought a new one, it was segnificatly faster then the old one and I did that every half a year. Now I buy a new mac every year and the speed increse is rediculous.

They are squeezing us out!!! They are more dangerous than MS!!! Why_ Becouse they don't have any judges breathing down their neck.

They just wan't to make money! And this wish is almost bigger at Apple than at MS.
But I thought Macs weren't all about the speed? Or now is it that the G5 truly exists, they are again?

Mac faithfull are like pendulums:

We are the fastest! PC's sux0rs!
It's not speed, it's reliability and good design.
We are the fastest.....

*sigh*

(Just a note)

[P-Worm]

All I can think is that this will just spawn more "Apple is cheating us by not releasing PowerBooks." The iMacs have nothing to do with the PowerBooks. I know that it is crazy that they are not out yet, but stuff happens and all you can do is wait. Just be happy that Apple isn't dead.

P-Worm

[MitjaP]

it is that faith that is killing our nerves and wallets!!!

Please consider: what is your mac anyway? A tool to do your work or a toy?

If it is a toy for you and you have enough money, then OK. But isn't it funny that some families buy a macintosh becouse it fits the furniture? I now some, who actualy bought it becouse of this fact.

Then again, if you use it lika a tool: you can do thing on a PC much faster and they became reliable months ago.

[AppleMatt]

MitjaP,

People from all walks of life post here. Luckily all of us have a reasonable amount of intelligence.

If you want to structure PC vs Mac arguments well, go ahead, but not on this thread.

AppleMatt

[Dont Hurt Me]

lot of crying going on, but look they just went up 250 mhz! what more you want? i see this as the last g4 imacs,next year g5s. anyways this imac will do anything you ask it.

[hose this!]

riddle me this, Macrumors legions - if PB delays have been blamed on shortages of the blazingly fast (cough) 1.25GHz G4, why would Apple choose to stock them in iMacs when the PB line represented a more critical need? Am I missing something about the die size or something here?

I think this points to a G5 PB to be announced at Paris.

As underwhelming as this update is to the iMac line, I can't belive Jobs & Co. would delay an announcement on PB updates of the same underwhelming nature.

I paint two scenarios here for you:

A) After an underwhelming response to the iMac updates, Steve Jobs shows up at Paris announcing before the crowd, "Behold, I give you the .25GHz increase in speed PowerBook - another example of Apple innovation". A small smattering of Applause from the Ultra-Orthodox Macolyte representatives, then some invectives hurled out in French (for example, please refer to Matrix: Reloaded) followed quickly by stale baguettes and strange French sandwich fixings. Steve ducks and dodges and runs for the side, but ends up with pate in his eye, cursing Motorola under his breath.

B) After an underwhelming response to the iMac updates, Steve Jobs shows up at Paris wearing a smug grin, announcing before the crowd, "Behold, I give you the G5 PowerBook. The world's first practical 64 bit laptop - another example of Apple innovation," to the shock and awe of everyone there. Parisian girls start kissing American GIs on the streets, Americans start eating French Fries again. Orders for G5 PBs skyrocket although delivery dates remain 3 months away (and then a 4th month - something about a small university wanting to create a portable super-cluster). Behind the podium, where nobody can see, Steve gives Motorola the finger.

Now vote! Which do you think is more likely?

[crees!]

Originally posted by MitjaP
the point is I'm again and again dissapointed on Apple.

They go buy a PC and be even more disappointed. Either way it's a world of disappointment out there.

[hose this!]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
lot of crying going on, but look they just went up 250 mhz! what more you want? i see this as the last g4 imacs,next year g5s. anyways this imac will do anything you ask it.

So why buy a G5?

No, seriously, with all this talk about the OS and applications moving to 64 bit code, why buy this iMac unless you have another $2K to burn 6 months from now?

[MitjaP]

AppleMatt, yes you are right. Some people here have a reasonable amount of intelligence and other have faight in Apple and Macs. What is apple doing is that he is missusing it's monopol. And yes, it has one. Only people who use a mac or have friends, who use one, buy macs. This is a call for a proscution or at least some people must get tigehter and sue Apple.

Look: the benchmarks they use in commercials are missleading us, and this is a serious problem; a problem of unloyalful competition (or what is the term in you language).

Now, I am a layer and I know what I'm talking here.

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by hose this!
riddle me this, Macrumors legions - if PB delays have been blamed on shortages of the blazingly fast (cough) 1.25GHz G4, why would Apple choose to stock them in iMacs when the PB line represented a more critical need? Am I missing something about the die size or something here?


As was already mentioned earlier in the thread, these new iMacs clearly have 7455 G4s, not 7457s.

[mkaake]

Originally posted by MitjaP
Just remember how long did it took them to go from G3 to G4 in PB!!!


true, but also look at how long it took to go from 60* to g3 in the pb...

matt

[jxyama]

mitjap...

your posts have the potential to get real UGLY realy quick. i'd stop now, if i were you.

or at least start your own thread if you want to.

many people know what they are talking about here, not just you. and someone having a different take on the situation than you doesn't mean he/she doesn't know what he/she is talking about.

[nagromme]

USB 2 and more HD/Mhz was a given, but we've also got more base RAM and better graphics boards. 64 MB VRAM on the high-end, and both models have output to TV. Pretty good.

The keyboard hub should be updated to USB 2 too, though--those are the handy ports for a camera.

[airmac]

I think it's a cool update..at least my friend will be pleased with it. He's getting a 17" and I actually convinced him to switch.. ;)
BTW, how loud is it?

[mkaake]

Originally posted by MitjaP
AppleMatt, yes you are right. Some people here have a reasonable amount of intelligence and other have faight in Apple and Macs. What is apple doing is that he is missusing it's monopol. And yes, it has one. Only people who use a mac or have friends, who use one, buy macs. This is a call for a proscution or at least some people must get tigehter and sue Apple.

Look: the benchmarks they use in commercials are missleading us, and this is a serious problem; a problem of unloyalful competition (or what is the term in you language).

Now, I am a layer and I know what I'm talking here.

not to pick on you, but wouldn't a lawyer know how to spell lawyer?

just curious...

matt

<edit>

the more i that post, the less sense it makes - could you clarify?

</edit>

[AppleMatt]

MijatP,

In agreement with jxyama, this thread could turn ugly quickly. I see both sides of the PC Mac debate because I use both Operating Systems. I read a hell of a lot each day about both companies. I make my own informed decision. I don't impose my opinions onto other forum members, be they supporters or bashers of Apple.

As for being a lawyer...the lack of structure to your baseless arguments (sorry Apple has a monopoly because only certain people buy macs?!) and poor spelling would indicate to me that you are, in-fact, not a lawyer.

Eitherway, the fact remains, this is a iMac thread. Feel free to start your own thread, with all your above argument(s) in it, on this very forum.

AppleMatt

[airmac]

Originally posted by jxyama
mitjap...

your posts have the potential to get real UGLY realy quick. i'd stop now, if i were you.

or at least start your own thread if you want to.

many people know what they are talking about here, not just you. and someone having a different take on the situation than you doesn't mean he/she doesn't know what he/she is talking about.

I'll take a fifth amendment on that..:D

[e-coli]

Originally posted by Stella
They've added USB 2 - but how about adding Airport Extreme and FW800?

They've added AirportExtreme. Look at the specs.

And nobody with an iMac is going to use FW800. It's even pointless on the PowerBooks. It would almost outpace the system BUS. It already does outpace the internal HD speed on the PowerBooks. It's candy. It's only really good for use in the towers.

[nazariteguitar]

Originally posted by hose this!
riddle me this, Macrumors legions - if PB delays have been blamed on shortages of the blazingly fast (cough) 1.25GHz G4, why would Apple choose to stock them in iMacs when the PB line represented a more critical need? Am I missing something about the die size or something here?

I think this points to a G5 PB to be announced at Paris.

As underwhelming as this update is to the iMac line, I can't belive Jobs & Co. would delay an announcement on PB updates of the same underwhelming nature.

I paint two scenarios here for you:

A) After an underwhelming response to the iMac updates, Steve Jobs shows up at Paris announcing before the crowd, "Behold, I give you the .25GHz increase in speed PowerBook - another example of Apple innovation". A small smattering of Applause from the Ultra-Orthodox Macolyte representatives, then some invectives hurled out in French (for example, please refer to Matrix: Reloaded) followed quickly by stale baguettes and strange French sandwich fixings. Steve ducks and dodges and runs for the side, but ends up with pate in his eye, cursing Motorola under his breath.

B) After an underwhelming response to the iMac updates, Steve Jobs shows up at Paris wearing a smug grin, announcing before the crowd, "Behold, I give you the G5 PowerBook. The world's first practical 64 bit laptop - another example of Apple innovation," to the shock and awe of everyone there. Parisian girls start kissing American GIs on the streets, Americans start eating French Fries again. Orders for G5 PBs skyrocket although delivery dates remain 3 months away (and then a 4th month - something about a small university wanting to create a portable super-cluster). Behind the podium, where nobody can see, Steve gives Motorola the finger.

Now vote! Which do you think is more likely?

I'll take the "B)" option:D

[rog]

Lame. No L3. Why not at least 1.42 if using the loser L2 only G4? These should be $999 max.

[mkaake]

Originally posted by rog
Lame. No L3. Why not at least 1.42 if using the loser L2 only G4? These should be $999 max.

but at that, the 17 incher they sell as a stand alone display would look kinda silly at 700 bucks, don't you think?

this isn't the imac of past - that's the emac.

matt

<edit>

on the other hand, i was thinking - since they didn't go with the new chip, they prolly didn't go with the 1.42 because of heat (and noisy fans?), not to mention that the g4 towers can't even be bought with a 1.42 any more... which is still strange if you ask me...


matt

[clonenode]

Originally posted by MitjaP
Squire the point is I'm again and again dissapointed on Apple.

I had PB 667 DVI till this summer and then I bought PB 17". The increse of the speed is minor!!!

When I remember the old days I was using a PC, I can recall that when I bought a new one, it was segnificatly faster then the old one and I did that every half a year. Now I buy a new mac every year and the speed increse is rediculous.

They are squeezing us out!!! They are more dangerous than MS!!! Why_ Becouse they don't have any judges breathing down their neck.

They just wan't to make money! And this wish is almost bigger at Apple than at MS. No one is FORCING you to buy an Apple. We are happy to have you as a Mac User, but this is a free society (in the United States, at least. You seem to be from somewhere else), and Apple can make what they want. If you don't like it, leave!

Apple is only a monopoly unto themselves. They don't have a strangle-hold on the entire business world like Microsoft.

[encro]

Hey, no mention on the store which optical drive the iMacs have at all! Are they all Superdrive based now?

The .au Apple store has been updated when I checked at 12:37am, the iPod page is still missing 2 images though.

I do believe that a G5 has a high probability of happening in a Powerbook really soon, it runs cooler than a G4 and the slewing mode should be very helpful in a portable situation. Apple still remains unpredictable.

As for updates breaking the only on Tuesday cycle. Tuesday only ever refered to software updates to check for last minute bugs on Mondays before rolling a GM release.

MitjaP: The effect of the G5 performance specs are real, the G5 does not win in all tests but is still a fantastic performer with a Dual Processor. Don't waste time spreading fodder.

My G4-800 iMac (Superdrive) is starting to feel the pressure.

[mmmbop]

Originally posted by MitjaP
AppleMatt, yes you are right. Some people here have a reasonable amount of intelligence and other have faight in Apple and Macs. What is apple doing is that he is missusing it's monopol. And yes, it has one. Only people who use a mac or have friends, who use one, buy macs. This is a call for a proscution or at least some people must get tigehter and sue Apple.

Look: the benchmarks they use in commercials are missleading us, and this is a serious problem; a problem of unloyalful competition (or what is the term in you language).

Now, I am a layer and I know what I'm talking here.

This guy could give Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf (the former Iraqi Information Minister) a run for his money :D

MARK

[mkaake]

Originally posted by encro
Hey, no mention on the store which optical drive the iMacs have at all! Are they all Superdrive based now?

The .au Apple store has been updated when I checked at 12:37am, the iPod page is still missing 2 images though.

I do believe that a G5 has a high probability of happening in a Powerbook really soon, it runs cooler than a G4 and the slewing mode should be very helpful in a portable situation. Apple still remains unpredictable.

As for updates breaking the only on Tuesday cycle. Tuesday only ever refered to software updates to check for last minute bugs on Mondays before rolling a GM release.

MitjaP: The effect of the G5 performance specs are real, the G5 does not win in all tests but is still a fantastic performer with a Dual Processor. Don't waste time spreading fodder.

My G4-800 iMac (Superdrive) is starting to feel the pressure.


17's are superdrive, 15 isn't. interesting - the optical drive can't be changed in the apple store - so i guess that answers your question - and no downgrading/upgrading is allowed...

matt

[Eric_Z]

@nazariteguitar

Seems to me the G5 powerbook is emenent. Why would they announce
the ipod and imac updates before the conference? They want to have more
time to talk about the new G5 powerbook: the first 64bit notebook computer.

At least I hope so

If the next incarnation of the PB has a G5 , it won't be the first 64-bit notebook (http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/html/), but it would propably hold
the 64-bit (nb)speed crown for a while thought. Untill AMD's Opterons find there way into laptops,
or when SUN releases there Gemini processor (http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=60000245).

[xtekdiver]

If iMacs can recieve a minor update without any announcement, then why not the Powerbooks? The answer is that the PB updates must be HUGE! G5!

[mkaake]

Originally posted by Eric_Z
@nazariteguitar



If the next incarnation of the PB has a G5 it won't be the first 64-bit notebook (http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/html/) I would propably hold
the 64-bit speed crown for a while. Untill AMD's Opterons find there way into laptops,
or when SUN releases there Gemini processor (http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=60000245).


ouch - you can actually get a 64 bit laptop for 3k? that'll make a hard tagline to come up with now....

maybe the first good looking 64 bit personal laptop

or

the first 64 bit

umm. hmm.

a fast 64 bit laptop.

hmm.

i'm sure there'll be something...

matt

[jj2003]

Originally posted by nazariteguitar
they actually said "there wont be a G5 in a powerbook any time soon". SOON could be anything, besides who's to say that the development of the G5 in a powerbook wasn't rushed.


And the best thing for overanxious apple fanatics (like me) was that in a ZDNet video interview[1] Greg Joswiak actually said that "It's probably not going into a powebook anytime soon"

One can just think why he had to add the "probably" there... :)

[1] http://zdnet.com.com/1601-2-1020509.html

[F/reW/re]

Whatz up with this?? Will we se a tablet after all??

http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/8352/159/store.apple.com/Catalog/no/Images/step1bullet1imac.gif

Taken from the Norwegian Apple Store:
http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/nostore.woa/9166/wo/Zzky40G5Dr8xAznCR1/0.0.7.1.0.5.21.1.2.1.1.0.0.1.0

[encro]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
Whatz up with this?? Will we se a tablet after all??

http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/8352/159/store.apple.com/Catalog/no/Images/step1bullet1imac.gif

Taken from the Norwegian Apple Store:
http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/nostore.woa/9166/wo/Zzky40G5Dr8xAznCR1/0.0.7.1.0.5.21.1.2.1.1.0.0.1.0

I can't see what you mean, what are you seeing?

You will never see a tablet from Apple. There was never a market for tablet PC's in the first place; well maybe in a new iPod.

[IndyGopher]

Originally posted by MitjaP
AppleMatt, yes you are right. Some people here have a reasonable amount of intelligence and other have faight in Apple and Macs. What is apple doing is that he is missusing it's monopol. And yes, it has one. Only people who use a mac or have friends, who use one, buy macs. This is a call for a proscution or at least some people must get tigehter and sue Apple.

Look: the benchmarks they use in commercials are missleading us, and this is a serious problem; a problem of unloyalful competition (or what is the term in you language).

Now, I am a layer and I know what I'm talking here.

If you really want to be taken seriously, spend the time to spell check and proof read your posts. English not being your first language is not a valid excuse; my first language is German. Granted I have lived in the US for nearly 30 years now and my English is better than my German, but the point is still the same. As a lawyer, as you say you are, you have GOT to know that how you present yourself, particularly in writing, is paramount to how you are perceived. I, for instance, think you're a kneebiting troll.

[isgoed]

This is a real promissing update. you must read between the lines. The 1.25 Ghz is a fine upgrade, but stil the old 7455 proc. At first you think that this is a bad thing but when you look at the higher 166mhz bus support and true DDR333 support this can only mean that the next upgrade will use the 7457 and overclocked at 1.33*(1.25/1) = 1.66Ghz.

As a game fanatic I praise the FX5200. The mx is only still in because they are breaking down the production line. DooM3 will be playable on the FX iMac. I played it on a PC with similar specs (Athlon 1.2Ghz 256mb sdram 133mhz bus geforce ti4200) and i got between 10 and 30fps. An optimized version will certainly get a constant 30fps

I saw it comming that iMac sales were going down (much more than PB). As a regular visitor of MacRumors I am quite dissapointed they had no earlier rumors on the iMac.

Originally posted by hose this!

B) After an underwhelming response to the iMac updates, Steve Jobs shows up at Paris wearing a smug grin, announcing before the crowd, "Behold, I give you the G5 PowerBook. The world's first practical 64 bit laptop - another example of Apple innovation," to the shock and awe of everyone there. Parisian girls start kissing American GIs on the streets, Americans start eating French Fries again. Orders for G5 PBs skyrocket although delivery dates remain 3 months away (and then a 4th month - something about a small university wanting to create a portable super-cluster). Behind the podium, where nobody can see, Steve gives Motorola the finger.

Now vote! Which do you think is more likely?

You are funny

[isgoed]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
Whatz up with this?? Will we se a tablet after all??

http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/8352/159/store.apple.com/Catalog/no/Images/step1bullet1imac.gif

Taken from the Norwegian Apple Store:
http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/nostore.woa/9166/wo/Zzky40G5Dr8xAznCR1/0.0.7.1.0.5.21.1.2.1.1.0.0.1.0

Sounds more like an old iMac graphite description which has been hiding in some dark corner of the world wide web.

[jj2003]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
Whatz up with this?? Will we se a tablet after all??

http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/8352/159/store.apple.com/Catalog/no/Images/step1bullet1imac.gif

Taken from the Norwegian Apple Store:
http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/nostore.woa/9166/wo/Zzky40G5Dr8xAznCR1/0.0.7.1.0.5.21.1.2.1.1.0.0.1.0

That looks like a leftover from some old CRT-iMac. WTF it is doing there is a good question.

In my opinion a tablet is a quite an uninteresting concept, if Apple would come up with that they had better to include a keyboard or a really good speech recognision. Handwriting recognision is not fast enough.

[crees!]

Originally posted by xtekdiver
If iMacs can recieve a minor update without any announcement, then why not the Powerbooks? The answer is that the PB updates must be HUGE! G5!

I think the new PBs will be announced next Monday and not Tuesday at the Expo. They will sport a speedy Gobi G3. The public will not know.

[encro]

Originally posted by crees!
I think the new PBs will be announced next Monday and not Tuesday at the Expo. They will sport a speedy Gobi G3. The public will not know.

You could definately be onto something, I forgot about the Gobi since it hasn't been in the news of recent.

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by nazariteguitar
Seems to me the G5 powerbook is emenent. Why would they announce the ipod and imac updates before the conference? They want to have more time to talk about the new G5 powerbook: the first 64bit notebook computer.:D

At least I hope so:( I would imagine that it's targeted for the back-to-school community. If that is the case, you'd imagine some iBook updates too...

[MitjaP]

jxyama I agree with airmac, but on the other hand I didn't say something that would hurt your feelings. I'm just saying what is Apple doing. Or maybe this is like going to christians and say there is no God and that the Church is only taking advantage of us.

Hereby I must stress, that I did not say there is no God!

My apologies to all of you if I did hurt your feelings, but you can be sure it wasn't ment that way.

MY SPELLING: I haven't used english active for quite a while, so it will get better and better. So yes, this is my mistake. And please notice I am not english or american.

Something is had to be done in this Apple thing. If it doesn't mean that not announcing a new product until it replaces the old one is taking advantage of it's buyers, that what? Apple did the exact same thing on iMacs today. How awful must those who bought their iMac yesterday feel. I think they can sue Apple if nobedy else dares.

The law says the missuse of monopol is when a monopol company refuses to develop new technologies and lowers the research. And in the case of iMacs I think this is the case.

I HAD to write that, and it concerns iMacs.

[3.1416]

Originally posted by hose this!

I paint two scenarios here for you:

A) (G4 PB speed bump)

B) (G5 PB)

Now vote! Which do you think is more likely?

A, at least 10 to 1. The physics just aren't there for a G5 PB. Plus, I'd expect see G5s in the Xserve before the PB.

[encro]

on another note: the next iBooks are expected to use the IBM PPC 750GX.

Taken from: Mac OS Rumors (http://www.macosrumors.com)
The internal data path changes, 1MB on-chip 4-way-associative L2 cache, and enhanced 60x frontside bus will make the 1.1GHz high-end 750GX a very impressive processor indeed -- particularly for its relatively low clock speed. Thanks to its shallower instruction pipelines compared to a Motorola PPC745x processor, it will most likely give even the high-end 1.3 or 1.4GHz Powerbook G4 a run for its money.

And this is to say nothing of considerations like cooler operating temperature and significantly lower power drain for these levels of performance.

[F/reW/re]

Originally posted by jj2003
That looks like a leftover from some old CRT-iMac. WTF it is doing there is a good question.

In my opinion a tablet is a quite an uninteresting concept, if Apple would come up with that they had better to include a keyboard or a really good speech recognision. Handwriting recognision is not fast enough.
But why does it say iTunes..?

[isgoed]

Originally posted by encro

[QUOTE]Originally posted by crees!
I think the new PBs will be announced next Monday and not Tuesday at the Expo. They will sport a speedy Gobi G3. The public will not know.

You could definately be onto something, I forgot about the Gobi since it hasn't been in the news of recent.

Actually there was some news reported on macbytes http://www.macbytes.com/mb.php?catdispid=8 which linked to http://lowendmac.com/misc/03/0903.html (quite interesting). This was my post to that story:

forget G4 and G5

I hoped that the Gobi would appear in september at paris instead of december. All those people that are waiting for the new powerbook are staring completely blind at the G5. I think there is much more future in a G3. It is a shame that this Gobi maxes out at 1.1Ghz. It could be a real pentium M competitor if it was arround 1.5Ghz-1.7Ghz. Imagine if a 1.5Ghz ibook would appear in paris... Forget the Powerbook!

[mkaake]

Originally posted by MitjaP
jxyama I agree with airmac, but on the other hand I didn't said something that would hurt any of your feeling. I'm just saying what is Apple doing. Or maybe this is like going to christians and say there is no God and that the Church is only taking advantage of us.

Here by I must stress, that I did not say there is no God!

My apologies to all of you if I did hurt your feeling, but you can be sure it wasent ment that way.

MY SPELLING: I haven't used english active for quite a while, so this will get better and better with time. So yes, this is my mistake. And please notice I am not english and not american (yes, I know the difference between those two).

Something is had to be done in this apple thing. If it doesn't mean that not announcing a new product until it replaces the old one is taking advantage of it's buyers, that what? Apple did the exact same thing on iMacs today. How awful must those who bought their imac yesterday feel. I thing they can sue Apple if nobedy else dares.

The law says the missuse of monopol is when a monopol company refuses to develop new technologies and lower the research. And in the case of iMacs I think this is the case.

I HAD to write that, and it concerns iMacs.


spend some time reading the ipod forum from today - people that had their ipods in order when the chang happened had their ipod's upped to the next model (which was more expensive) absolutely free of charge.

and when apple announces something early, people take a crap because it's not shipping yet (g5's anyone? what? what?)

matt

btw - it would be a stretch to concider apple a monopoly (yes, there's a y there) just because of the OS - that would almost be like saying any company that only makes software for windoze is it's own monopoly... and about research - how much do you think went into the new powermacs? apple isn't missusing anything - trust me, with where they are right now, they can't afford to hold back on any new technology they have - people are to twitchy, and ready for the next big thing...

matt

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by MitjaP
Something is had to be done in this apple thing. If it doesn't mean that not announcing a new product until it replaces the old one is taking advantage of it's buyers, that what? Apple did the exact same thing on iMacs today. How awful must those who bought their imac yesterday feel. I thing they can sue Apple if nobedy else dares.

Go and research Apple policy, as a lawyer would do, if buyers experience this. Then try and say Apple is unfair.

Seriously, I've given many patient and coherent replies to most of your posts, as have many other posters, but I'm getting very annoyed. Either start a new thread (which you are more than welcome to do) or drop it, this is for discussion of the new iMacs.

AppleMatt

[Beleava24]

Just in case anyone is wondering about the possibility of getting a PB...and with hopes that they'll order and it will be upgraded free of charge...estimated shipping for a 15" TiBook at the US Apple Store is 3-5 business days. Take it for what it's worth.

[hose this!]

Originally posted by 3.1416
A, at least 10 to 1. The physics just aren't there for a G5 PB. Plus, I'd expect see G5s in the Xserve before the PB.

Hey! You can't quote me out of context! You still have to weigh in the likelihood around Steve getting baguettes thrown at him or giving the finger to Motorola! :D

[MitjaP]

I seriously doubt that if will be updated for free. Maybe. But I presume new powerbook prices higher that current prices.

[Arcady]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
But why does it say iTunes..?

It says iTunes because when the CRT iMacs with the first CD-RW drives came out, iTunes was new also. Those were the first Macs to ship with iTunes on the hard drive. (I remember being at that Macworld in SF and seeing the new iMacs and Cubes with CD-RW drives for the first time.)

Besides, Apple is not going to ship something new with a G3/600, when G3/900 and faster are readily available. That's just an old image that got placed there by mistake.

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by MitjaP
I seriously doubt that if will be updated for free. Maybe. But I presume new powerbook prices higher that current prices.

If you buy a new Mac within 10 days of a new model being released Apple will either refund the difference or upgrade you to the new spec for free. If your Mac was on order, no matter how long, it will be upgraded for free.

If you buy a new Mac and a new OS is released within 30 days of buying that Mac Apple will give you a free update to the new OS for free (minus S&H costs).

I don't remember a product update being more expensive than the model it replaced.

AppleMatt

[ssamani]

The pricing in the UK has gone mad, with Apple once consistently bad on the USD / GBP FX rate, now making some great offers and some terrible rip offs.

Basically the current FX rate of ~1.58 means that anything below this is relatively expensive and everything above this is cheap. So the 17" iMac custom build is a screaming bargain and I will very likely order one tonight.


Product UK Cost US Cost UK - VAT Implied FX Rate
iPod 10 248.99 299.00 211.91 1.41
LCD- 20 1,049.00 1,299.00 892.77 1.46
iMac 17 1,449.00 1,799.00 1,233.19 1.46
LCD - 23 1,599.00 1,999.00 1,360.85 1.47
iPod 40 398.99 499.00 339.57 1.47
LCD - 17 549.00 699.00 467.23 1.50
G5 1.6 1,549.00 1,999.00 1,318.30 1.52
g5 1.8 1,849.00 2,399.00 1,573.62 1.52
imac 15 999.00 1,299.00 850.21 1.53
g5 2.0 2,299.00 2,999.00 1,956.60 1.53
iPod 20 299.00 399.00 254.47 1.57
iMac 17 1,712.99 2,448.00 1,457.86 1.68
custom


Note on the figures. UK prices on the Apple store are quoted with VAT (Sales tax), US one's aren't. On the assumption that there's nothing Apple can do about tax, it is only fair to compare pre-tax prices and just accept you live in a high tax country. So the "UK - VAT" column is the UK pre-tax price and the "Implied FX rate" is = US cost / UK pre-tax cost. So either the UK custom iMac 17 is very underpriced, or the US one is very overpriced. Normally Dell's implied FX rate is about 0.05 below the real one, meaning that they make a small amount from the FX rate. Apple's have traditionally been 0.10 - 0.15 below, meaning they are making an extra 7-10% profit just on the FX rate.

Given that the 20 & 23 LCD's just came down in price, I am surprised they are still relatively so expensive. They should have come down another GBP 50 each.

Sanj

[Thanatoast]

Whadya'll think the chances are of getting holda one of those imac-specific fx 5200's is? I'd love to upgrade my video card. :D

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by isgoed
... when you look at the higher 166mhz bus support and [B]true DDR333

I thought that it was a given that the 7455 chips have an SDR frontside bus, and true DDR support was not possible....

[ColoJohnBoy]

Frankly, I'm disappointed. 1.25 GHz and USB 2.0 really are nice, but that's it? I suppose this'll hold us until the G5 goes to the iMacs :D

[ColoJohnBoy]

Don't mean to spam, but are there other features on the revised iMacs that I'm not seeing? Impressive ones? It's too bad Apple wasn't able to use the 7457 and just bump the suckers up to 1.33 GHz. Oh well. Anyhow, yes, any other features?

[.a]

i am excited!
i try to confince my mum (63) buying a imac. now that they are updated, i have one aspect more to get her going to mac and leave the pc world!
.a

[isgoed]

Originally posted by AidenShaw
I thought that it was a given that the 7455 chips have an SDR frontside bus, and true DDR support was not possible....

Yes, you're right, the 7455 has no true DDR support, but the 7457 has. I just read an article on macbidouille which was written by someone who better understands it than i do. They state that the processor being used is the 7455B. This could possibly mean that it isn't even overclocked at all ??? They do say that it is good news for overclockers, so it could be overclocked. http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-09-08#6557

edit:
Oh but wait... Since it is not the 7455A, it could have true DDR support. i dunno.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by Macrumors

15" iMac
1GHz PowerPC g4
NVidia GeForce 4 MX
256MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Hard Drive
Bluetooth Option
USB 2.0
$1299

17" iMac
1.25GHz iMac
NVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
256MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Hard Drive
Bluetooth Option
USB 2.0
$1799

Sorry but these things are still over priced for the average consumer. IMHO, a consumer grade system shouldn't cost more then $1,500 at most and really should be hovering in the $1,000 range. If Apple ever does expect to pick apart the Wintel monopoly they need to have a lower end system with at least a 1.5Ghz chip and 256MB of RAM for around $999. As it stands I can’t argue with anyone who spent $700 on a e-machine for e-mail browsing and basic chat and isn’t having any problems other then the MS patch of the week.

[redAPPLE]

Originally posted by mkaake
not to pick on you, but wouldn't a lawyer know how to spell lawyer?

just curious...

matt



i think the guy meant, liar and not lawyer...

oh...

they mean the same :eek:

[airmac]

Originally posted by redAPPLE
i think the guy meant, liar and not lawyer...

oh...

they mean the same :eek:


The most intelligent post on this thread...
Just let it go bro..;)

So, how loud is iMac?

[machinehien]

If Steve does announce updates to the Powerbook lineup what would the chances be of there being G5's in the PB and G4's in the iBooks? It wouldn't make sense to update the chip in one without bumping up the other since that would create a huge performance gap.

I think it's doubtful since I've seen the G5's heatsink up close and have no idea how they will be able to get the chip to run cool enough for laptop purposes unless the aluminum chasis is the new heat sink.

How long were the G3s and G4s out before they updated the portable lineup to matchup?

[redAPPLE]

Originally posted by .a
i am excited!
i try to confince my mum (63) buying a imac. now that they are updated, i have one aspect more to get her going to mac and leave the pc world!
.a

good luck ;)

[isgoed]

Originally posted by ColoJohnBoy
Don't mean to spam, but are there other features on the revised iMacs that I'm not seeing? Impressive ones? It's too bad Apple wasn't able to use the 7457 and just bump the suckers up to 1.33 GHz. Oh well. Anyhow, yes, any other features?

I think the 17" entry is a real good buy. (Even better if you wait till panther gets preloaded (not to hold sales for apple or anything). And even even better when the 7457 is in it. But compared to a PC system it matches the specs of a modern $1400 PC, except for processor speed

PC:
400$ - TFT 17"
850$ - full spec pentium 2.4Ghz
100$ - windows XP
50$ - other SW
----------------------
1400$


I don't know the old specs but it has

17' TFT
Ultra ATA Hard Disk. What is 'Ultra'?
AirPort Extreme Ready
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra (325 mhz core, the 4600ti = 300mhz, 440mx = 275mhz. the iMac still has AGP 4X, that is real stupid)
333mhz ram
usb 2.0
superdrive DVD-r
and as I said: except for proc-speed and bus-speed this iMac matches consumer PC's

Ok it is still more expensive, in Europe the 17" is even 200 dollar/euro more expensive than in America (Stupid 20% import and 20% VAT Tax). But if you like mac you don't have to feel ashamed in front of your PC-friends.

[redAPPLE]

Originally posted by airmac
The most intelligent post on this thread...
Just let it go bro..;)

So, how loud is iMac?

THANK YOU THANK YOU :D

how loud is the iMac? ugh, dunno.

i know, i might get hate posts by stating this. ha ha.

but i can state my opinion freely right?

i am waiting to get a PB, but that would be in january or febuary 2004.

if they release a g4 pb in september or october, the next release would be may or even later...

that would suck. so for my sake :eek: let the pbs come in january.

but if g5 pbs come, id get one asap.

[robbieduncan]

Originally posted by Thanatoast
Whadya'll think the chances are of getting holda one of those imac-specific fx 5200's is? I'd love to upgrade my video card. :D

0.0% iMac graphics chips are soldered to the motherboards. They are not cards. They cannot be upgraded.

[jxyama]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Sorry but these things are still over priced for the average consumer. IMHO, a consumer grade system shouldn't cost more then $1,500 at most and really should be hovering in the $1,000 range. If Apple ever does expect to pick apart the Wintel monopoly they need to have a lower end system with at least a 1.5Ghz chip and 256MB of RAM for around $999. As it stands I cant argue with anyone who spent $700 on a e-machine for e-mail browsing and basic chat and isnt having any problems other then the MS patch of the week.

um... did you figure in the monitor cost?
also, no argument at all that imacs are a rip off if all you want to do is check email, chat and browse the web.

the thing about mac is that even on consumer machines, you can do many great things, like organizing photos, making movies, etc. easier than on a PC, imo. if you just want to surf the web, sure, don't bother with a mac.

[crees!]

Originally posted by machinehien
If Steve does announce updates to the Powerbook lineup what would the chances be of there being G5's in the PB and G4's in the iBooks? It wouldn't make sense to update the chip in one without bumping up the other since that would create a huge performance gap.

I think it's doubtful since I've seen the G5's heatsink up close and have no idea how they will be able to get the chip to run cool enough for laptop purposes unless the aluminum chasis is the new heat sink.

How long were the G3s and G4s out before they updated the portable lineup to matchup?

Some peeps just don't get it. G5/heat/PB.. not an issue when running at a slower clock speed. The G3's aren't going anywhere.... please read this: http://lowendmac.com/misc/03/0903.html

[airmac]

Originally posted by redAPPLE
THANK YOU THANK YOU :D

how loud is the iMac? ugh, dunno.

i know, i might get hate posts by stating this. ha ha.

but i can state my opinion freely right?

i am waiting to get a PB, but that would be in january or febuary 2004.

if they release a g4 pb in september or october, the next release would be may or even later...

that would suck. so for my sake :eek: let the pbs come in january.

but if g5 pbs come, id get one asap.

hehe..:D ..of course you're more than welcome to state your opinions.
This is a quote from Pulp Fiction: “If you ARE a character doesn't mean that you HAVE a character.”
But you certainly do my friend!...;)

Hay i was serious there...if you compare dual 1,42 with an iMac...i got a potential switcher breathing on my neck because of this particular “issue”.

Of interest...i know...MY english SUCK!!!..:D

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by jxyama
um... did you figure in the monitor cost?
also, no argument at all that imacs are a rip off if all you want to do is check email, chat and browse the web.

the thing about mac is that even on consumer machines, you can do many great things, like organizing photos, making movies, etc. easier than on a PC, imo. if you just want to surf the web, sure, don't bother with a mac. Even if you only want to surf the web, I think you should bother with a Mac. If you're looking for simplicity you should bother with a Mac. Just don't get the latest and greatest and you'll be happy. Plus if you explore further in the future you'll be really happy with the iApps.... iPhoto is so simple to use.

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by pgwalsh
Even if you only want to surf the web, I think you should bother with a Mac. If you're looking for simplicity you should bother with a Mac. Just don't get the latest and greatest and you'll be happy. Plus if you explore further in the future you'll be really happy with the iApps.... iPhoto is so simple to use.

I tend to agree. When I left home I gave mum an old PC laptop and took the Mac desktop.

The only thing she used to ask for help with on the Mac was changing the printer cartridges, on the PC I'm getting around 2 calls a week asking for help. All she does is email, internet and word

AppleMatt

[airmac]

Originally posted by crees!
Some peeps just don't get it. G5/heat/PB.. not an issue when running at a slower clock speed. The G3's aren't going anywhere.... please read this: http://lowendmac.com/misc/03/0903.html

You're absolutley right. I own a maxed iBook 900 Mhz and let me tell you for a low cost portable it's pretty damn fast. I think that the G3 processor is “guilty” (less heat) of a longer battery life..:)

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by airmac
Of interest...i know...MY english SUCK!!!..:D My english sucks too and it's my native tognue.

[Mineral]

For whoever asked...

iMacs are VERY QUIET. You can barely tell it's on, other than a slight "hum" that you hear when there's an electronic on in a room (like that noise you hear if you walk in where a muted TV is on). That's it.

I love my iMac!!! (but I'm still getting a powerbook to replace it.. need portability for school)

[airmac]

Thx mineral...I'm calm now..:D

[RajK]

Well, I 've been waiting to switch for a while now, knowing that updates for the iMac were just around the corner, so I ordered a 15" today. I'm certain that even though it's considered a minor bump it will be more than suitable for my purposes and I'm hoping it will serve as a good entry into the Mac world. I would have liked to have waited for Panther, but my PC is getting old and constantly giving me problems. Plus I'll save a lot of space and can move things around at home.

Now I can start saving up for an iPod.

[crees!]

How easy is it to upgrade the RAM in the iMac? It has 2 slots right? I thought I heard the bottom slot it easy but you need to take it in "the apple shop" to upgrade the top slot...

[Dont Hurt Me]

going from 1 gig to 1.25 on a 167 bus with 333 ddr ram is great, just looked at toms hardware review of the fx5200 ultra and though not a 9800 or fx5900 it is still a value leader that compares with the 9000. not bad. anyways i think this is a very good machine set up. and it moves the imac up & away from the emac spec wise. please forgive but would guess the next revision imac will be some type of g5, if not then 7457 g4. anyways the imacs are making great strides.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by jxyama
um... did you figure in the monitor cost?
also, no argument at all that imacs are a rip off if all you want to do is check email, chat and browse the web.

the thing about mac is that even on consumer machines, you can do many great things, like organizing photos, making movies, etc. easier than on a PC, imo. if you just want to surf the web, sure, don't bother with a mac.

Yep:

eMachines T2482 (http://www.emachines.com/products/products.html?prod=eMachines_T2482)
$500 with:
AMD Athlon™ XP 2400+ Processor
256MB RAM
80GB Hard drive.
S3 ProSavage8™ integrated
AC '97 Audio
10/100Mbps built-in Ethernet


I'm guessing a good CRT or even a 15" average LCD monitor would set you back $200 or so. So rough ballpark $700, maybe $800?

My point wasn't to get into a specs war. It was to point out that there are plenty of people out there that don't need the speed and are just looking for something cheap and affordable. The emachines are FAR from elegant and well built but they fit the bill for the third requirement: cheap. If Apple could put out a system for $999, or even lower, they would snag some of these users. Yes I'm aware of the notion of Apple being the Porsche of the computer world. Personally I don't care. All I want to see is Apple's market share grow, and users who are looking to do just the basics are a ripe target for Apple. They aren’t looking to upgrade their hardware. They aren’t worried about how much software is available. (Even if its just perceived from the standpoint of Windows vs OS X.) They just want net access, e-mail, browsing, chat, maybe some word doc editing.

A good comparison would be the Palm Zire. No backlight, 2MB of RAM, can’t be upgraded to a new OS, no expansion slot. Its inferior in every way to every other PDA out there and you know what? They are selling like hotcakes because they are cheap and give the consumer what they want. The basics.
I really believe that a cheap iMac would be the Zire of the Mac world.

[MacsRgr8]

Yeah, the FX5200 is not bad. Any idea why Apple didn't want to go ATi with the iMac? The Radeon 9000 would have been an obvious choice, IMHO.
The FP iMac have had nVidias across the board if I recall correclty.
Apple seems to be dividing its hardware equally between ATi and nVidia.

[Dont Hurt Me]

remember this about nvidea, they make the chips someone else does the board or chipset etc. so a nvidea product in a apple machine means apple made the card or designed it. this goes for geforce 4 titanium /geforce 3 and fx5200 ultra. anyways just thought id mention this. while ati cards are made by ati.

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
Yeah, the FX5200 is not bad. Any idea why Apple didn't want to go ATi with the iMac? The Radeon 9000 would have been an obvious choice, IMHO.
The FP iMac have had nVidias across the board if I recall correclty.
Apple seems to be dividing its hardware equally between ATi and nVidia. They probably couldn't get as good a deal on the Radeon 9000 or perhaps the size of the card was an issue... The ATI 9000 would have been nice.

[sedarby]

Originally posted by MitjaP
AppleMatt, yes you are right. Some people here have a reasonable amount of intelligence and other have faight in Apple and Macs. What is apple doing is that he is missusing it's monopol. And yes, it has one. Only people who use a mac or have friends, who use one, buy macs. This is a call for a proscution or at least some people must get tigehter and sue Apple.

Look: the benchmarks they use in commercials are missleading us, and this is a serious problem; a problem of unloyalful competition (or what is the term in you language).

Now, I am a layer and I know what I'm talking here.
Just because Apple is the only company that make Macintoshes does not make them a monopoly. Lighten up, we're all friends here ;)

[Lancetx]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict

If Apple could put out a system for $999, or even lower, they would snag some of these users.

Apple already has 2 eMac models under $1,000. The $999 combo drive model has many of the same specs as the $1,299 iMac does now. Regardless of what some people might think of them, they are not cheap pieces of junk. They're well built and fit the bill for someone only needing mainly the basics.

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
while ati cards are made by ati. ATI now lets 3rd parties build cards with ATI chips.

[Dont Hurt Me]

1 thing about all macs are quality, look at the way they are built,materials etc, those cheapo pc's arent close. the imac yells quality everywhere.

[sedarby]

Originally posted by MitjaP
jxyama I agree with airmac, but on the other hand I didn't say something that would hurt your feelings. I'm just saying what is Apple doing. Or maybe this is like going to christians and say there is no God and that the Church is only taking advantage of us.

Hereby I must stress, that I did not say there is no God!

My apologies to all of you if I did hurt your feelings, but you can be sure it wasn't ment that way.

MY SPELLING: I haven't used english active for quite a while, so it will get better and better. So yes, this is my mistake. And please notice I am not english or american.

Something is had to be done in this Apple thing. If it doesn't mean that not announcing a new product until it replaces the old one is taking advantage of it's buyers, that what? Apple did the exact same thing on iMacs today. How awful must those who bought their iMac yesterday feel. I think they can sue Apple if nobedy else dares.

The law says the missuse of monopol is when a monopol company refuses to develop new technologies and lowers the research. And in the case of iMacs I think this is the case.

I HAD to write that, and it concerns iMacs.

Are you seriously suggesting that Apple by law MUST advance a design? You do realize that Apple does not make every part of the iMac such as the processors. Your arguments are weak and suggesting to sue Apple in a previous post is absurd. What area of law do you practice? Please reread all the previous posts because you are coming off as an unenlightened MS fanatic troll.

No law in this country can dictate what a company must do for their own products which is why this is a free enterprise system. If you don't like the specs then buy something else.

Good luck and good day!

[jamesatzones]

To my amazement we have several of the new iMacs instock as well as the old ones still. This is a rare thing for Apple to have stock in the channel during same day anouncement. The 15" 800 iMac took a $100 price drop and the 17" 1GHz took a $200 drop.

Now, where are the powerbooks, super frusterating. How can the high end consumer Mac be more powerful than the high end pro portable???

[machinehien]

Originally posted by crees!
Some peeps just don't get it. G5/heat/PB.. not an issue when running at a slower clock speed. The G3's aren't going anywhere.... please read this: http://lowendmac.com/misc/03/0903.html

I read that article last week but I doubt that Apple has long term plans for keeping the G3 around for the iBook. From a marketing standpoint a six year old processor design isn't that marketable especially if it's two generations behind. Plus the first generation iBook complemented the first generation iMac in terms of design and specs, you would think they would bring the current iBooks up to line with the redesigned iMacs but not yet. They would have to rebrand the G3 somehow or differentiate it to keep up demand.

[Thanatoast]

Originally posted by robbieduncan
0.0% iMac graphics chips are soldered to the motherboards. They are not cards. They cannot be upgraded.
Aargh! ::despair:: Oh well. Heroes III is still a good game.

I don't see why so many people have dismissed these updates. Come on people, clock speed has jumped by 25%, and bus speed by 33%(?) Standard ram is upped (in the 17'er anyway) and the videocards have been updated (sorely needed imho). All for no increase in price. Give apple a break, yo. I, for one, am happy with these updates.

edit:formatting

[joeyjojoe]

So the new iMacs and iPods are available for purchase today? I checked out the Apple website and that says 3-5 days, but I think it says that for any item.

So can people go to an Apple store and buy one today?

[Dont Hurt Me]

Originally posted by Thanatoast
Aargh! ::despair:: Oh well. Heroes III is still a good game.

I don't see why so many people have dismissed these updates. Come on people, clock speed has jumped by 25%, and bus speed by 33%(?) Standard ram is upped (in the 17'er anyway) and the videocards have been updated (sorely needed imho). All for no increase in price. Give apple a break, yo. I, for one, am happy with these updates.

edit:formatting so true, this is a nice machine period.

[evolu]

Originally posted by clonenode
...this is a free society (in the United States, at least. You seem to be from somewhere else)...

...If you don't like it, leave!


do i need to point out the contradiction in your agressively un-american argument?

[Squire]

Originally posted by MitjaP
If it is a toy for you and you have enough money, then OK. But isn't it funny that some families buy a macintosh becouse it fits the furniture? I now some, who actualy bought it becouse of this fact.

I don't think there's anything wrong with buying a Mac because of the design. In fact, doing otherwise seems a little ridiculous to me.

Aesthetics has to be important for anything that's out in the open. When you buy a lamp you don't say, "I don't give a damn how it looks-I just want it to put out a lot of light...fast." Now, if you're computer were stuck in some kind of cabinet, I could understand but most aren't. Bottom line: if people see it, looks are important. And in the world of desktop computers, you just cannot beat the iMac.

Squire

[job]

Do the new iMacs have 2 user accessible RAM slots?

What exactly is the difference here?

256MB of PC2700 (333MHz) DDR SDRAM expandable to 1GB; one 184-pin DIMM and one open user-accessible SO-DIMM slot.

Also, I think the update is very nice. The 15" iMac is at a very nice price point right now. It certainly adds the needed distinction between the eMac and iMac lines which have been blurred since the introduction of the 1Ghz/Combo/AE eMac.

[crees!]

I just took a visit to Dells site and configured a PC with pretty much the same specs as the 15" iMac. Though the Dell started out at $400, after I configured it it was less than $100 within the price of the iMac.

[Dont Hurt Me]

i agree big time, the g5 so turned me off looks wise, the imac is art. g5 powermac is not art sorry. imac screen ergonomics are first in class.

[3.1416]

Originally posted by isgoed
I think the 17" entry is a real good buy.

Not compared to either the dual G4 or 1.6 G5 towers.

[cb911]

cool. new iMacs! :D

now i'm not happy about this because i'm going to get a iMac, but because of what it means for PowerBook updates...;)

you see, Apple won't let a 'consumer' model have better specs than any of their 'Pro' models, or at least they won't let it last long. so the current iMac specs just about guarantees that there will be new PowerBooks soon. :D

oh, and for people who want to see the old iMac specs and compare then to the new specs... just open another browser window and head to Apple Australia (www.apple.com.au).:p if we don't even have new iPods and iMacs yet... i hate to think what this means when the PowerBooks are released! :eek:

[job]

Originally posted by 3.1416
Not compared to either the dual G4 or 1.6 G5 towers.

Add in the cost of 17" widescreen display to the G5 or G4 tower. The cost difference does begin to show (although so does the performance. ;)) The 17" has very decent specs, even at $1799. With the educational discount it drops down to ~$1600. Not too bad. Again, not everyone needs a G5.

[raschild]

For a student on a budget, these iMacs are looking like great performers for their price points. I'm definitely digging the new graphics card in the 17".

[Dont Hurt Me]

makes me almost wish i had waited upgrading my powermac. the screen is about perfect floating in front of you (17") 1.25 on 167 bus& 333 ram is so nice. almost perfect, just a lil better video card and lots of ram and you have a gamers imac.( come on steve how about a special edition imac) for gamers.

[job]

Originally posted by raschild
For a student on a budget, these iMacs are looking like great performers for their price points. I'm definitely digging the new graphics card in the 17".

Me too. The FX5200 and the widescreen 17" may push me over the edge to upgrade from my old (5 years)CRT iMac.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Originally posted by job
Me too. The FX5200 and the widescreen 17" may push me over the edge to upgrade from my old (5 years)CRT iMac. this machine is so far ahead of that. you got a 233 or 333? i still have a 333 that my son uses. almost 5 years old.

[jamesatzones]

Originally posted by joeyjojoe
So the new iMacs and iPods are available for purchase today? I checked out the Apple website and that says 3-5 days, but I think it says that for any item.

So can people go to an Apple store and buy one today?

We received the iMacs over the weekend here at Zones. The iPods are due in tomorrow. E-mail me if you are interested or have any questions, I'm here to work with Apple people and businesses alike.

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by isgoed
Yes, you're right, the 7455 has no true DDR support, but the 7457 has. I just read an article on macbidouille which was written by someone who better understands it than i do. They state that the processor being used is the 7455B. This could possibly mean that it isn't even overclocked at all ??? They do say that it is good news for overclockers, so it could be overclocked. http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-09-08#6557

edit:
Oh but wait... Since it is not the 7455A, it could have true DDR support. i dunno. Just remember Motorola does not call the rev 2.x and rev 3.x 7455s the A & B chips, they're using A/B/C right after the 7455 to denote modified processes -- so you won't see 7455B (what Mac B is calling a rev 3.x) reflected in the part number, it'll be either a 7455 rev 3.3 or 3.4 chip which carries a last letter F or G.

So yes it is most likely a 7455 revision 3.x chip, most likely the rev 3.4 they just announced.

Confused yet?

But since it has no L3 cache it'll really be a MC7445(A/BorC)xx ... xxF or ...xxxG

---

So the old (what Mac B calls a 7455B) might have been rev3.3 (XC7445ARX867WF) and a newer rev3.4 (MC7445ARX1000WG).

NOTE -- They also changed the first letter, with the switch to rev G.

[simX]

Originally posted by job
Do the new iMacs have 2 user accessible RAM slots?

What exactly is the difference here?

The iMac does indeed have 2 RAM slots, but only one is user-accessible. The user-accessible one is the SO-DIMM slot (laptop RAM), which you can install by taking the bottom plate off the iMac.

The second RAM slot takes standard desktop RAM (184-pin DIMM), but it's shoved way up into the iMac's innards, and even if you do open it up to get there to install it yourself, you break a thermal grease contact, which isn't trivial to put back. So by all accounts, this second RAM slot is not user-accessible by any means.

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
If Apple could put out a system for $999, or even lower, they would snag some of these users.

What is your obsession with ignoring the eMac (http://www.apple.com/emac/)? The eMac is exactly what you are talking about... if you're REALLY strapped for cash, it's stupid to consider an iMac. It even gives you a 17" CRT built-in. Hey, look, there's even a $799 eMac. Granted, it has only a CD-ROM drive, but if you only want to do e-mail, web browsing, and word processing, there's no need to get anything better than that (get a 64 MB USB flash drive for $30 to backup your files, and you're set).

[tychay]

Originally posted by airmac
So, how loud is iMac?

Fan Noise
I can't comment on this model, but iMacs use a chimney design with intake on the rounded bottom (very hard to block these), hot air out of the top, and a single large fan situated at the top of the dome to pull the air. The parts are stacked one on top of each other so the air visits each part before coming out the top. One part (the hard drive?) is wrapped in a malleable metal perhpas to act as a heat sink (but I can't be sure, perhaps its for interference reasons). I think the design is pretty similar to the old G4 Cube but with the addition of the fan (on the + side this means it can take a faster hard drive, be cheaper, etc.).

In general, I think it is the more efficient than anything in the PC world. For instance, the favorite SFF PC is the Shuttle which uses a heat pipe to get around the horrible geometry issues so it can cut down the number of fans to one (two if you have a machine whose northbridge neads a fan, three if you add an AGP card). The intakes are on the lower side and are very easy to block (I've seen one SFF PC design that actually blocks the intakes with a set of speakers). Airflow seems very haphazard, especially with the addition of an AGP card. There are some serious heat issues reported with such things. (In their defense, I own a number of them and have not personally had any of them fail due to heat--then again I don't install any high end AGP cards in them nor do I overclock them).

The subjective noise level of the iMac is low. My test is that the hard drive disk whirr bothers me in the case of the iMac (I have replaced the hard drive with an IBM/Hitachi so YMMV), but is not especially noticeable above the fan noise in any Shuttle I've owned. G4 processors much less power than a Pentium 4 (even these overclocked MPC 7455s in the new iMac)--the MPC7455 uses 15 watts @ 1Ghz, while the P4 uses over 100 if you're crazy enough to use a 3.2Ghz P4.

BTW. Noise level is related to fan noise which is related to airflow design, quality and number of fans, and the amount of heat that needs to be dissipated. Heat dissipation is directly proportional to power usage.

If I had to guess as to why the iMac (and the G4 PowerMac) isn't available at 1.4Ghz, I'd say that there are probably yield issues at turning out enough quantities, not a heat issue.

It's a real good design, IMO, but I think the iMac might have to be redesigned when consumer graphics chipsets will start requiring fans.

RAM Upgrades
As mentioned the iMac has two slots. One is a user-serviceable SO-DIMM slot (this means notebook RAM so it will cost you more). It is very easy to upgrade and instructions are available on Apple's website as well as the included manual (I think). Basically you unscrew the bottom plate and you can add the Airport Extreme (and I guess Bluetooth also) and the SO-DIMM.

The other DIMM is on the motherboard which is not an easy thing at all to upgrade. While I was upgrading the hard drive, I changed out the DIMM on my old iMac, but everyone who saw my disassembly and thought it was nuts--I'm sure it must void the warrantee. I don't recommend doing so, though it will give you a healthy respect for Apple design and build quality.

Headless Macs
Yeah, count me in as someone who wishes they came out with a headless Mac for cheaper than an eMac. Not that that changes anything, I have different needs than most (I wouldn't mind some cheap web servers running Mac OS X client) and probably represent a minority that would be outweighed by the number of lost sales of eMacs and PowerMacs (as well as the tech support headache of external monitors, resolutions, antialiasing settings, and DVI vs. VGA).

Just goes to show that you can't please everyone.

G5 iMac
As has already been mentioned, I'm with the crowd who think that there won't be a G5 iMac anytime soon: the line has just been refreshed; they can always refresh again with an L3 cache or an MPC 7547 (which will probably go in the new Powerbooks); there are probably more G4 speed bumps from Motorola ahead as the 7455 isn't even at 130nm (of course this means a lot of frustrating Motorola delays ;); and the G5 represents a singular distinction between pro/consumer desktop lines. Heck, Apple is still plugging the 2x1.25Ghz G4 PowerMac.

I hope this helps,

terry

[kangaroo]

Originally posted by pgwalsh
Even if you only want to surf the web, I think you should bother with a Mac. If you're looking for simplicity you should bother with a Mac. Just don't get the latest and greatest and you'll be happy. Plus if you explore further in the future you'll be really happy with the iApps.... iPhoto is so simple to use.

don't forget iChat (video)--unique to Macs.

[DakotaGuy]

I wonder now how long until we get an eMac at 1.25Ghz? A month or two? That is the magic number I am waiting for to upgrade my old iMac DV 400 and I can't afford a new iMac, but I want something faster then my old iMac.

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by isgoed
the 7455 has no true DDR support, but the 7457 has

Are you positive about this? The Moto sheets at http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC7457&nodeId=03C1TR046708718653 (particularly the "MPC7457 RISC Microprocessor Hardware Specifications" pdf in the table) make no mention of any differences between the 7455 and 7457 memory bus subsystems. They do stress that it's a socket-compatible upgrade.

I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't mention something as significant as finally implementing DDR support....

If you search the web for "7457 DDR", you'll find lots of articles like http://www.macnn.com/news/17098&startNumber=30, which claims that a follow-on chip, the 7457-RM, will have DDR support, but that this year's 7457 will be SDR...

[3.1416]

Originally posted by job
Add in the cost of 17" widescreen display to the G5 or G4 tower. The cost difference does begin to show

Sort of. A stripped down dual G4 (256/80/Superdrive/Radeon 9000) is $1800, same as the iMac. Add a decent display and you're only a few hundred $ more than the iMac for a much better performing (and more expandable, if that matters) Mac.

It's similar to the 1.8 vs dual 2.0 G5; if you can afford $2400 for the 1.8, you can probably afford $600 more for a far better machine.

[hose this!]

Originally posted by Thanatoast
Aargh! ::despair:: Oh well. Heroes III is still a good game.

I don't see why so many people have dismissed these updates. Come on people, clock speed has jumped by 25%, and bus speed by 33%(?) Standard ram is upped (in the 17'er anyway) and the videocards have been updated (sorely needed imho). All for no increase in price. Give apple a break, yo. I, for one, am happy with these updates.

edit:formatting

The increase in and of itself is not a bad one. I think the issue that most people have with this update is that it's about 6 months behind in relative computing terms (I guess compared to wintel machines). I can't speak for everyone, but I think most would-be mac users wouldn't mind paying a premium for better design, OS, and integration, so long as hardware specs remain comparable.

The new iMac is a nice machine, but spec-wise, it just doesn't seem up to snuff. The value equation is further diminished by the imminent release of a G5 iMac (less than 6 months?). We're going to see a much more significant boost in performance then. This update is a step up, but when Apple move to the G5, it's going to be a whole flight of stairs.

[hose this!]

Originally posted by tychay
G5 iMac
As has already been mentioned, I'm with the crowd who think that there won't be a G5 iMac anytime soon: the line has just been refreshed; they can always refresh again with an L3 cache or an MPC 7547 (which will probably go in the new Powerbooks); there are probably more G4 speed bumps from Motorola ahead as the 7455 isn't even at 130nm (of course this means a lot of frustrating Motorola delays ;); and the G5 represents a singular distinction between pro/consumer desktop lines. Heck, Apple is still plugging the 2x1.25Ghz G4 PowerMac.

Anyone wanna make a bet that IBM will be producing G5s at greater cost-effectiveness than Motorola will be producing G4s in six months time?

And if you were Apple, why in the world would you NOT put a more powerful more profitable chip in the iMac?

Staying with Motorola past this revision makes absolutely no sense. What - are we supposed to be excited about a 1.5 GHz G4 and 200MHz bus speeds in Q2 2004?

[wizard]

You have described a very intereting upgrade to your iMAC. Do you 'or anybody for that matter' know what the maximum memory capacity of these machines are if the main DIMM is upgraded. Does maxing out the DIMM slot allow expansion beyond the published memory capacities?

This current rev the the iMAC is interesting but it did come up short on installed memory. In some ways it is close to meeting my needs, but I was really hoping that Apple would have went just a bit further.

Thanks
DAve



Originally posted by tychay
snipped <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,
RAM Upgrades
As mentioned the iMac has two slots. One is a user-serviceable SO-DIMM slot (this means notebook RAM so it will cost you more). It is very easy to upgrade and instructions are available on Apple's website as well as the included manual (I think). Basically you unscrew the bottom plate and you can add the Airport Extreme (and I guess Bluetooth also) and the SO-DIMM.

The other DIMM is on the motherboard which is not an easy thing at all to upgrade. While I was upgrading the hard drive, I changed out the DIMM on my old iMac, but everyone who saw my disassembly and thought it was nuts--I'm sure it must void the warrantee. I don't recommend doing so, though it will give you a healthy respect for Apple design and build quality.

[Gyroscope]

I find iMac updates, unexciting, uninspiring, underpowered, uncool and understandable.

Understandable, due to the fact that Apple still isn’t out of Moronrola dark shadow. Such a shame considering that it was once Apple’s most popular product line (maybe saved the company)
God damn you Moronrola.

:mad:

[job]

Anyone else notice the new iMacs ship with the old full size keyboards? I wonder why, especially since the G5s come with the eMac keyboards.

Optical mouse and full-size keyboard
The Apple Mouse uses a high-precision optical sensor for unparalleled accuracy. The 108-key Apple Keyboard features 15 full-size programmable function keys, with special keys to adjust audio and eject CDs or DVDs and a built-in two-port USB hub.

http://a772.g.akamai.net/7/772/51/3b5f4073662619/www.apple.com/imac/images/indexkeyboardmouse01072002.jpg

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by Gyroscope
I find iMac updates, unexciting, uninspiring, underpowered, uncool and understandable.

Understandable, due to the fact that Apple still isn’t out of Moronrola dark shadow. Such a shame considering that it was once Apple’s most popular product line (maybe saved the company)
God damn you Moronrola.

:mad:

Yup, it is gonna take a while to move away from the shadow.

But *finally* the iMac has *decent* graphics!

:)

[michael666]

As iMac user I'm happy to see them upgraded, but unfortunately, none of the items of my "iMac wishlist" has been included:

* bluetooth mouse and keyboard (OK, they are apparently in the works)
* 90 degrees turnable display: This would enable me to read PDF files in a convenient manner without having to print them
* Internal speakers: the external speakers just take up space and mess up the desk with their cables
* Stereo microphone (instead of the mono one)
* Built-in camera: same was with speakers, I expect everything to be built-in with an iMac. If I want flexibility then I'll buy a PowerMac
* and finally a headless iMac! Just take off the display and put a VGA/DVI/ADC output at the back, and there you are! They could also put a CRT display instead of the flat panel onto the iMac's base and replace the eMac with it. This could save them lot of production costs, as all three models (flat panel iMac, CRT iMac, headless iMac) share all parts except the display.

[Squire]

Originally posted by michael666
As iMac user I'm happy to see them upgraded, but unfortunately, none of the items of my "iMac wishlist" has been included:

* 90 degrees turnable display: This would enable me to read PDF files in a convenient manner without having to print them


I'm not sure I understand. My iMac display will turn in almost any conceivable direction. Or do you mean the up-down position so, for instance, you could read the screen with a bird's eye view?

Squire

[michael666]

Now it's who is not sure to understand. I meant turning the display from "landscape mode" to "portrait mode", so that it fits PDF files (or long web sites) more naturally. With the current widescreen display, you can put two web pages next to each other, but it doesn't give you much height, so you have to scroll around very much if the web site is a bit longer. A "portrait mode" display solves this problem. And you can still turn it around to be a widescreen display when watching DVDs :D

[panphage]

Originally posted by tychay
Fan Noise
If I had to guess as to why the iMac (and the G4 PowerMac) isn't available at 1.4Ghz, I'd say that there are probably yield issues at turning out enough quantities, not a heat issue.
terry

Actually I think it's both. The buzz I've picked up here at macrumors is that Motorolla produced NO 1.4Ghz G4 processors. They turned out 1.25's that were amenable to overclocking, BUT (I think) had heat issues when you pushed the clock up. Now try to shoehorn that hotrod (in the sense of a performance-altered machine) into a tiny little dome and see how far you get.

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by nazariteguitar
Seems to me the G5 powerbook is emenent. Why would they announce the ipod and imac updates before the conference? They want to have more time to talk about the new G5 powerbook: the first 64bit notebook computer.:D

At least I hope so:(

Someone probably mentioned this in the 6 pages I haven't read yet, but there's already a 64bit notebook-- SPARC based.

They can still split hairs like they did with the desktops though...

Personally, I'd go with "64 bits, in your lap". :)

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by MitjaP

They just wan't to make money! And this wish is almost bigger at Apple than at MS.

Yeah, I hate it when a company wants to make money...:rolleyes:

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by MitjaP

Then again, if you use it lika a tool: you can do thing on a PC much faster and they became reliable months ago.


Sorry, it's late and I'm actually enjoying this: PC's have a track record of months!

I'm guessing the next post mentions that the new Windows has improved stability...

[iPC]

Originally posted by mkaake
but at that, the 17 incher they sell as a stand alone display would look kinda silly at 700 bucks, don't you think?

this isn't the imac of past - that's the emac.

matt

<edit>

on the other hand, i was thinking - since they didn't go with the new chip, they prolly didn't go with the 1.42 because of heat (and noisy fans?), not to mention that the g4 towers can't even be bought with a 1.42 any more... which is still strange if you ask me...


matt
1.42's were supposedly just overclocked 1.25's. The speed difference was not that much, and the heat created would be a strain for the iMac to deal with in its current configuration.

[jxyama]

Originally posted by michael666
As iMac user I'm happy to see them upgraded, but unfortunately, none of the items of my "iMac wishlist" has been included:

* bluetooth mouse and keyboard (OK, they are apparently in the works)
* 90 degrees turnable display: This would enable me to read PDF files in a convenient manner without having to print them
* Internal speakers: the external speakers just take up space and mess up the desk with their cables
* Stereo microphone (instead of the mono one)
* Built-in camera: same was with speakers, I expect everything to be built-in with an iMac. If I want flexibility then I'll buy a PowerMac
* and finally a headless iMac! Just take off the display and put a VGA/DVI/ADC output at the back, and there you are! They could also put a CRT display instead of the flat panel onto the iMac's base and replace the eMac with it. This could save them lot of production costs, as all three models (flat panel iMac, CRT iMac, headless iMac) share all parts except the display.

BT stuff, you answered yourself. not everyone would want a BT keyboard/mouse. some casual user would be more annoyed that their keyboard/mouse need batteries.

90 degree turnable display is kind of out of fashion. it's a nice option but considering how rare it is, i don't think it justifies the investment to accomodate the small minority.

internal speakers: i believe many people would much prefer a small footprint of the imac than one expanded to include speakers. even then, people will complain how crappy the internal speakers are. at least right now, you can replace those ext. speakers with something else you prefer.

built-in camera: name one computer except for sony vaio multimedia laptop that comes with a camera built-in. doesn't justify the cost increase for most people to have a fairly inflexible built-in camera... get an isight, apple developed it for people like you...

headless mac: this has been brought out before. it's all-in-one, meaning monitor is included. truth is, including the monitor lets apple keep the margin. so it won't happen.

[Photorun]

Uh, no, actually headless Mac means monitor ISN'T included. Headless mac is/was the Cube. And I'd be all for another Cube myself. Even if it was with the current top of the line eMac specs with combo drive built in offered for $749, I'd buy two!

[Squire]

Originally posted by michael666
Now it's who is not sure to understand. I meant turning the display from "landscape mode" to "portrait mode", so that it fits PDF files (or long web sites) more naturally. With the current widescreen display, you can put two web pages next to each other, but it doesn't give you much height, so you have to scroll around very much if the web site is a bit longer. A "portrait mode" display solves this problem. And you can still turn it around to be a widescreen display when watching DVDs :D

Okay. I understand now. Yeah, that would be useful. And working out the electronic gadgetry wouldn't be too hard. I mean, camcorders and digital cameras with flip-out displays already adjust the picture when the display gets to a certain point.

Squire

[sjk]

Originally posted by wizard
Do you 'or anybody for that matter' know what the maximum memory capacity of these machines are if the main DIMM is upgraded. Does maxing out the DIMM slot allow expansion beyond the published memory capacities? transintl.com (http://www.transintl.com/store/category.cfm?Category=2433) is already selling 1GB user- and factory-installed memory upgrades for the 1.25GHz 17" iMac. $219 for the factory slot is reasonable (installation caveats aside); $649 for the user slot is insane(!)

If it were cheaper/easier to RAM expand the 17" iMac I'd be tempted to buy one, especially since I'm hurting for a larger than 1024x768 display. 640MB in my iBook 600 is hardly enough so it makes little sense buying a desktop system that's almost as memory-constrained. Well, unless I give it to my wife after upgrading to a G5. :)

Holding off 'til after the next PowerBook announcement to see how that fits into the picture...

[oldpismo]

Originally posted by ssamani
So the 17" iMac custom build is a screaming bargain and I will very likely order one tonight.


iMac 17 1,712.99 2,448.00 1,457.86 1.68
custom

Sanj

This does make the custom mac look good, but the US version ships with 1Gb of ram whereas the UK version ships with only 512Gb of ram. with the extra 512 that puts the price up to 1962.99, ex-vat = 1670.63 which is an FX rate of 1.47.

About the same as the others then :(

Peter

[RichardCarletta]

I mean both machines could have used the same processor and bus updates ( 1.25 GHZ G4 and 167 MHZ bus for the combo and Superdrive Models ) and not disrupted the Powerbook market that much by one week (really different markets anyway ) . Now that the PowerMac G5 , PowerBook G4 , and iMac have been updated in the past 60 days , there is absolutely no excuse to not update the eMac sometime in October . Apple can simply make the changes to the eMac in the next 3 or 4 weeks and start cranking them out . While it would be nice if the eMac was updated to 1.33 GHZ G4 , it wouldn't be required since the iMac and eMac would probably make the switch to the G5 anyway by next year.

As for the iBook , give the new 12 " Powerbook 6 months time on the market . If the powerbooks have not become G5s by that time , replace the 1 GHZ G4 in the 12 " combo drive Powerbook with a 1.25 GHZ G4 , drop the price to $1200 , and call it the eBook. The current specs for the iBOOk are 900 mhz for the combo drive unit . a faster G3 around 1 or 1.1 GHZ might drive sales away from the new Powerbooks. You could just drop the price of the 12 " combo drive iBook to $1100 ,drop the price of the 14 " combo drive iBook to $1300 , and drop the CD-Rom unit alltogether,

[rasha]

I have an iMac and eMac wish list too. Some of these things are the same.

iMac:
1) Faster chips. I hope for a 1.5 to 1.6 G4 512K cache with true DDR support.
2) Faster video. A Radeon 9600 class or higher
3) More memory. 512MB standard. Even more important with only one user upgradable slot
4) Portrait display. I do alot of web surfing and scrolling on the wide screen is horrible.
6) I would also like a scroll whell on the mouse and the old keyboard.
7) iSub included with all. This is the consumer digital hub machine and with Apple promoting the iPod and iTunes there is no excuse for the lowly pro speakers

eMac:
1) 1.25 to 1.33 G4s with cache
2) Radeon 9000 or FX 5200
3) True DDR support. No reason for anything else. DDR is not new.
4) iSub. eMac sounds good with iSub
5) eMac stand included or 29.99 extra with purchase eMac.

I like the eMac and iMac but they are too old tech and expensive for what they are. These are not upgradable so the internals must be at least mid grade performace level to last. I'm not asking for 2.0 Ghz G5s and 2GB ram but they should be stronger than what they are right now even after update.

Bu then again I think the PowerMacs should all be dual. I've thought this way since Apple first did duals.

[Genie]

These iMacs don't seem so stunning next to the G5.

http://www.geniesongs.com/genie/endorsements/apple/Genie-G5Computer50pix.jpg (http://geniesongs.com/personal.html)

That's me with my new G5.

[sedarby]

Originally posted by Genie
These iMacs don't seem so stunning next to the G5.

http://www.geniesongs.com/genie/endorsements/apple/Genie-G5Computer50pix.jpg (http://geniesongs.com/personal.html)

That's me with my new G5.

Of course the iMacs don't match up with the PowerMac G5.

iMac = Consumer
G5 (PowerMac) = Professional

[Dont Hurt Me]

G5's look like crap in my book,ugliest thing out of apple in a long,long time, the imac is to cool and i love the all in one design but like many have said it needs to come standard with a more powerful video chipset and a g5. lets hope that will be the new machine next update.

[sedarby]

Originally posted by hose this!
The increase in and of itself is not a bad one. I think the issue that most people have with this update is that it's about 6 months behind in relative computing terms (I guess compared to wintel machines). I can't speak for everyone, but I think most would-be mac users wouldn't mind paying a premium for better design, OS, and integration, so long as hardware specs remain comparable.

The new iMac is a nice machine, but spec-wise, it just doesn't seem up to snuff. The value equation is further diminished by the imminent release of a G5 iMac (less than 6 months?). We're going to see a much more significant boost in performance then. This update is a step up, but when Apple move to the G5, it's going to be a whole flight of stairs.

Sorry dude, but no way the iMac is going to see a G5 until it is in the Powerbooks and that probably won't happen until late next year. I would say in about 18 months you might see a G5 in the iMac but no promises it will happen even then. Remember how long it took for them to put the G4 in the iMac? A total redesign before it happened.