Apple Software Updates (this and next) Tuesday

[MacRumors]

With the release of the new iPods (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030908090240.shtml) and iMacs (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030908085643.shtml), this week has already started off with some excitement.

With the week not over yet, we've heard that Apple will be making software announcements tomorrow, as well as next Tuesday -- with one unexpected announcement.

Apple Expo kicks off next week (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030825153843.shtml) with Steve Jobs giving the Keynote speech on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 in Paris, France at 10 a.m. CET. (8am GMT, 3am EST).

A few things to note: PowerBooks will not be updated tomorrow, and other rumblings have noted that Apple's iTunes Music Store for Windows has met some unexpected delays. The significance of this is unknown.

More News/Rumors at: MacRumors.com (http://www.macrumors.com)

[trog]

Software announcements? Hmmm... if its not iTunes for Windows what could it be? Can't be Panther yet. Maybe iTunes store for Europe?

How about Apple's own word processor to go with Keynote? Now that would be nice.

[NicoMan]

iTMS for Windows anyone?

Maybe updated iSync, iCal and iChat AV final version?

Or am I asking for too much ?

[VicMacs]

what a week! powerbooks please please pleaaaase!

i wonder what the unexpected announcement will be..

maybe my 1st 1st posting!

[madrobby]

iTunes for Windows it shall be. Would be perfect timing with the new iPods... and an updated iSync so I'll get a working calendar on my Nokia... :D

[F/reW/re]

A woman at the local Apple reseller (not Applestore) said wait to get an PowerBook, they will be upgraded at the 16th. Seems about right if thats the day Steve is giving his speech :D

[temptatino]

i just wish the 'unexpected announcement' would be an apple cell phone. i'm in the market now but there's just nothing like a little apple engineering and industrial design. just look at the ipod and the aluminum books.

[F/reW/re]

Originally posted by temptatino
i just wish the 'unexpected announcement' would be an apple cell phone.
Maybe there is a cellphone in the works ;) It might be a little big with that slot loading cd-drive.

Originally posted by F/reW/re

http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/8352/159/store.apple.com/Catalog/no/Images/step1bullet1imac.gif

Taken from the Norwegian Apple Store:
http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/nostore.woa/9166/wo/Zzky40G5Dr8xAznCR1/0.0.7.1.0.5.21.1.2.1.1.0.0.1.0

[Mudbug]

I'd have to say that a new AppleWorks style iApp suite would be nice - with a Word-compatible wordprocessor, spreadsheet app (a good one...) and Keynote bundled. That'd be cool.

[DanUk2003]

newer versions of iCal / iSync...?

Panther... :D lol

[druggedonions]

iTMS for Europe would be nice (At least let us have it before Windows users) :rolleyes:

[encro]

Will it be 10.2.8 this week or next?

[mkaake]

edit:

i really have nothing usefull to say...

but i've been told i'm good at that...

matt

[Playfrsbee]

Great, maybe they'll ship this year?

:rolleyes:

Ethan

[shadowself]

I know we have "rumored" and "discussed" this to death, but Apple needs to be announcing -- and shipping -- a new, updated PowerBook soon.

[freaky57]

Apple really needs to get iTunes for Windows out there. Can you imagine if they have 10 millions songs just from mac users what that would be if Windows users were in on that number WOW!
Powerbooks would be nice , but so would actually having them available to ship the same day they are annouced instead of waiting for 4 months like the G5.

If apple does the "hey new Powerbooks...but one more thing you gotta wait until Chrsitmas" I wont buy it and suffer the anticipation of waiting and checking my apple status order overy other day to see if things change. Nope, not me I will actually wait until I see them in the stores.:cool:

[stefman]

Oh man!! I feel like a little boy at Christmas!! :D

I hope that the PBs not being updated tomorrow means updated at the Paris Expo.

[jimthorn]

Software, eh?

iCal 1.5 would be nice.

[atomwork]

Great... now with the 40GB iPod i just only need the music for it.

Hehe. I just was buying some music from apples music store. I also saw that they sell on some albums a 15 sec track as well for 99 cent. A bit high or?

[mmmbop]

European Sherlock channels?

That could be the unexpected announcement next week coz it's certainly not expected :rolleyes:

It's only been well over a year since the new Sherlock was launched.

On the flip side, I'd much rather see the European iTMS, and also the Windows version. 10m downloads so far is fantastic. Wait and see what that figure will be once the global/windows rollout begins :)

MARK

[nagromme]

I predict Paris will be a big long demo of Panther (which is software, after all), with some new features mentioned and a ship date announced no later than October. New PowerBooks too--IF Apple CAN announce them!

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by atomwork
I also saw that they sell on some albums a 15 sec track as well for 99 cent. A bit high or?

this is the way it needs to be to keep it fair among tracks - that way no track has any more importance than another. Sure it's 15 seconds, but if it's the only track on the album you want, then it should be worth it, right?

[babu]

I have a Ti book but, I am probably going to be getting a anew mac soon. Should I get a new powerbook, or G5? If I get the G5 though, I want to be able to have a ne Albook to go with it, but the 12in one doesn't have the glowing keyboard.
So I don't know if when they update I should just get a 17in, and a bunch of software, or go for the combo unit. Also Are there any G5 guys out there who have used it with Final cut 4 yet, I want to know if it really is that good.

[Sonofhaig]

Originally posted by atomwork
Great... now with the 40GB iPot i just only need the music for it.


ipot? Far out man.... it's about time dude! :D

[aras]

It wouldn't make sense to release powerbooks tomorow except that the schools really need them. Releasing products as mentioned before is also part of the AAPL stock price game. If they release them all at once it has one effect where each product doesn't add as much to the stock price. Releasing over time has the effect of making people notice Apple more. Not to say it drives Apples stock up, but if it looks like Apple is releasing new products every 2 weeks sometimes, it just looks better.

I've said it before, at least Laguna College of Art and Design has told its students that they tried to order 100 Powerbooks of the 15 inch type and said they will have to wait but they are getting Aluminum ones with built in firewire - and they are getting them soon. Which I take to mean by the end of next week.

[atomwork]

Originally posted by Mudbug
this is the way it needs to be to keep it fair among tracks - that way no track has any more importance than another. Sure it's 15 seconds, but if it's the only track on the album you want, then it should be worth it, right?


well i understand the basic theroy but the truth is different. A 15 sec song ain't a song and should be free. Its mostly talk or something. I saw also a new album for 13.99 to buy on the apple store. Was only on CD. If you ask me that's way to hight. I just don't feel that this is so much better. It won't help to stop sucking music over peer-peer networks. Thats sad. 13.99... I rather buy it for 18 bucks and get the CD and music tracks lyric.

[iRiKliAN]

Me: Can i have a New Powerbook Combo SuperDrive Upsized Please.

Apple: Did you want 1GB Extra Ram with that, sir?

Me: Yes.

Apple: Was that a 15" or 17"?

Me: Ummm... Ill have the 15" with the Illuminated KB, thanks.

Apple: That will be a 10 day wait, sir.

Me: WHAT?? 10 Days... I can't wait that long.

Apple: Aint that a pity.


-- DAMN APPLE TO HELL......... I CANT WAIT ANY LONGER>>

[atomwork]

Originally posted by Sonofhaig
ipot? Far out man.... it's about time dude! :D

oh yes... pardon moi! hehe.

[encro]

Originally posted by iRiKliAN
Me: Can i have a New Powerbook Combo SuperDrive Upsized Please.

hehe sound like you are ordering from Burger King :D

[cubist]

I thought it was supposed to be out by 9/1.

[iJon]

Originally posted by cubist
I thought it was supposed to be out by 9/1.
xcode is going to be the replacement to the current developer tools and to my knowledge will ship as a bonus (like the developer tools now) free of charge with panther, whenever that will be out. i have this feeling paris will bring the release date of panther, it just seems about that time.

iJon

[Photorun]

This thread is about possible software updates, not about hardware, mind this when posting (man, I sound like a moderator), if you want to post about hardware or the G5 Powerbook (which you people who think this really need to chill/seek therapy) there's plenty of other threads to post on.

Anyhoo, software, my guess would be perhaps iCal 1.0 and iChatAV final final final. I'd like to say OS 10.2.8 but the last seed of this build didn't seem to have the earmarks of a GM. 10.3 is doubtful, even as that's getting pretty close to done Jobs would save that for his razzle-dazzle next week at Paris. So probably just updates to something in the iLife, or maybe Keynote.

[Powerbook G5]

As far as new Apple software goes, the two things I'd love to see are Panther announced next week and a new AppleWorks type of office suite. Seriously, Keynote kicks total ass, Mail is becoming one awesome email client, iCal is being updated and has serious potential, then add iSync, the fact that Panther can work with Windows formats with documents and the fastest PDF viewer and we have some serious workings of a powerful office suite. If Apple can bring all the elements together and add a Word killer to the bundle, then there would be an AppleWorks/iWorks suite that would kick ass.

[achmafooma]

One unexpected announcement?

Hrm...

I'm guessing iCal, iSync at once... maybe at the same time as iTunes for Windows.

Then an office suite for the unexpected announcement. I heard rumors that Panther beta users could open Word docs in TextEdit, and I always thought that TextEdit (when wrapping to page rather than screen) looked like it had the heart of a great word processor, it just needed easier font tools and some other "heavy-duty" professional stuff.

Maybe it will become a full-fledged WP program, free for Panther purchasers and included separately in an office bundle with Keynote, FileMaker, and a new spreadsheet app.

Might just be wishful thinking :-) I'm aching for a reason to drag some more MS apps to the trash. I do most of my work in AppleWorks, but I still need to start Word for more complex tasks (and loading other people's Word docs that are so often goofed by the AppleWorks translators).


edit: I see that Powerbook G5 beat me to the punch by about 10 minutes :-) I swear this was an independent thought!

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by atomwork
well i understand the basic theroy but the truth is different. A 15 sec song ain't a song and should be free. Its mostly talk or something. I saw also a new album for 13.99 to buy on the apple store. Was only on CD. If you ask me that's way to hight. I just don't feel that this is so much better. It won't help to stop sucking music over peer-peer networks. Thats sad. 13.99... I rather buy it for 18 bucks and get the CD and music tracks lyric.
Besides, I don't know about you guys, but over here in the UK music store have been having massive sales this summer: I picked loads of CD between £5 and £7 (yes you've read right), and some only a few months old... Why would I want to buy songs on the iTMS (even though the idea of having the iTMS available for european users delights me)...

My £0.02 (at this rate it will be enough to buy 1 or 2 CDs...:)).

[CaptainScarlet]

iCal and iSync are updated with Panther...So that's not big news....

Panther would be my guess since it's so close to GM!!!...Or something to relate to Panther...

But I'm hoping for iTunes for Windows....Since the family house is PC.....


CS...out

[SilentPanda]

Originally posted by atomwork

Hehe. I just was buying some music from apples music store. I also saw that they sell on some albums a 15 sec track as well for 99 cent. A bit high or?

You *could* always just stream the "preview" which will be the whole track and use some program that captures audio on its way to the speakers... then it's free... :P

I wouldn't do it though... support it, don't kill it.

[esheep2001]

Just think about it. Every other app in the iLife suite has a pro version.

iMovie -> FCP4
iDVD -> DVDSP2
iTunes -> Logic6

so now Photopro 1.0.

next week SJ will announce Apples After Effects killer and demo it on the new G5 Powerbook, then all will be well with the world.

ever the optimist
e.

[wheet]

I'm hoping on a new, or totally revised Appleworks -- I seem to remember "iWorks" (or something like that) rumored a couple of months ago, before the G5 announcement. Poor old Appleworks is getting really outdated, so it wouldn't surprise me. Though, I must say, there hasn't been any more talk about a new office suite... It certianly isn't beyond imagination, though, that they would make a suite that tied together Appleworks, Keynote, iCal, Mail, iSync, Safari, and so on, into a tight package of business apps -- like iLife for the workplace.

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by Mudbug
this is the way it needs to be to keep it fair among tracks - that way no track has any more importance than another. Sure it's 15 seconds, but if it's the only track on the album you want, then it should be worth it, right? Exactly... Imagine if they sold by the length of the song.... You'd start seeing a lot of extended mixes... :p

Oh and I'd like to see Mail improved a bit... At least with the email filtering... Maybe a rule where you could bounce certain emails.... hehe I know you can manually bounce emails, but I'd like to see automatic bounce of certian emails...

I'd also like junk mail to be automatically sent to the FTC spam department. Cali has one to and I know with new laws you can report spammers to the state... Not that it does much, but it may put some companies on notice.

caspam@cadoj.samspade.org
uce@ftc.gov

Better rendering of xml in mail...

[SiliconAddict]

PLEEEEEASE let it be iTunes for Windows!!! Apple needs as much of a head start as it can get before the flood gates open and release a multitude of ITMS wannabes. This software CAN NOT come soon enough.
I'm really going to be interested in seeing how Apple handles iTunes for Windows. AFAIK, Other then the iPod nothing else out there supports AAC. It would be death for iTunes for Windows not to support other audio Codecs and unfortunately because of the RIAA it can’t be MP3 or VOG which leaves only one real choice for DRM audio. I know more then a few people that own other MP3 players and there would be no reason to use iTunes if it doesn't work with their player. As sick and wrong as I think it is the only viable solution...god have mercy for me saying this...is AAC to WMA conversion in iTunes.

Again it will be interesting to see how Apple handles this.

Honestly other then iTunes for Windows I can't think of anything more important out there other then possibly Panther.

[lloyd]

An unexpected software announcement? Panther is unexpected this early, maybe it's that. Then Steve could save the Paris expo for updated PowerBooks (probably still G4, but you never know), an iOffice suite, maybe new iBooks (it is the year of the notebook after all) iChat AV final and maybe the rumoured new monitors?

[NoPrideELF]

Originally posted by atomwork
well i understand the basic theroy but the truth is different. A 15 sec song ain't a song and should be free. Its mostly talk or something. I saw also a new album for 13.99 to buy on the apple store. Was only on CD. If you ask me that's way to hight. I just don't feel that this is so much better. It won't help to stop sucking music over peer-peer networks. Thats sad. 13.99... I rather buy it for 18 bucks and get the CD and music tracks lyric.

18 bucks? not anymore. Universal just announced a big drop in sales prices. I guess they realized what filesharing was doing to their profits, only took 'em 3 years. Anyway, bottom line now is why would i spend 13 on a full cd from iTMS when I could spend almost the same amount and actually hold the real thing in my hands, booklet case and all.

[Ikash]

im getting tierd of waiting for powerbooks new ipods nice but just like apple to update a product thats already been updated in teh past HUMM 5 months. common apple im not gona comite apple suicide but they need to update

[CaptainScarlet]

Originally posted by NoPrideELF
18 bucks? not anymore. Universal just announced a big drop in sales prices. I guess they realized what filesharing was doing to their profits, only took 'em 3 years. Anyway, bottom line now is why would i spend 13 on a full cd from iTMS when I could spend almost the same amount and actually hold the real thing in my hands, booklet case and all.

Sure, but if want to do anything with the songs, you have re-rip the cd all over again.

And that's what this is all about...Ripping songs from the CD...

[pkradd]

Did you read the opening of the thread? Indeed according to people I know in the music biz, Apple is ready to go but not all the contracts are signed yet. Labels are foot dragging on this because even though they gave Apple excellent DRM options for its customers they're balking at the bigger Windows universe getting the same thing. Remember Buy.com does not have the liberal download options as iTunes.

Software is coming and I predict a new bunch of stuff for the 3rd gen iPods. Powerbooks will be unveiled at Paris Expo.

[SilentPanda]

Originally posted by Macrumors
With the week not over yet, we've heard that Apple will be making software announcements tomorrow, as well as next Tuesday -- with one unexpected announcement.

Just a note so people aren't angry tomorrow... it doesn't specifically state that the unexpected announcement will be tomorrow... in some of the posts I've read it seems some people are expecting the unexpected tomorrow... but it might very well be next Tuesday instead.

[lunarworks]

I REALLY hope it's iTunes for Windows.

Someone just gave me an iPod (nice gift,) and MM Jukebox is an enourmous piece of garbage.

(Still gotta get a firewire card for my PC before I can use it...)

[Ikash]

F/reW/re

the apple people at the retailers don't know when the new powerbooks are comming out. nobody really knows we all can hope at the paris expo. man im wanting one real bad so i know what you guys are going thorugh its like were junkies and apples the fix we need another hit apple. the gave us a taste when teh ipods came out. the new pb's better be awsome besides for the light up keybord and the 1.25 ghz they getter have changed it i mean the design it awasome i like the case but they need to fix the heat problem and do something or its gona make me wonder what took them so long to revamp it.

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by trog
Can't be Panther yet.

I think they will annouce the release date for Panther at Apple Expo Paris. My sources indicate mid-october or later for release.

[nickfit]

Does anybody have any idea whether the new Imacs are sporting the new Motorola G4 chip?

[crees!]

Well there is this band called Reggie and the Full Effect. On their albums along with the full tracks they have about 1/2 a dozen tracks less than 15 or 10 seconds. I wonder how they would be priced because I thought I read something about tracks shorter than 30 seconds were priced differently? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by crees!
For a second I pictured you driving up to a fastfood drivethrew and having such a conversation.

Served by Steve Jobs with a paper hat and an apron on.

[iPC]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
As far as new Apple software goes, the two things I'd love to see are Panther announced next week and a new AppleWorks type of office suite. Seriously, Keynote kicks total ass, Mail is becoming one awesome email client, iCal is being updated and has serious potential, then add iSync, the fact that Panther can work with Windows formats with documents and the fastest PDF viewer and we have some serious workings of a powerful office suite. If Apple can bring all the elements together and add a Word killer to the bundle, then there would be an AppleWorks/iWorks suite that would kick ass.
rm * -fr <<< much more dangerous, especially when done from:

/

[NoPrideELF]

Originally posted by crees!
Well there is this band called Reggie and the Full Effect.

Reggie, great choice.

[jayscheuerle]

Isn't it what we all wanted and more?!

[crees!]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Isn't it what we all wanted and more?!

Now that is awesome.. good show.

[alamar]

Apple iMovez DvD store.

7 bucks for a full move 10 with all the dvd extras. And, you can use your super drive to burn it.

That's unexpected.

I don't see iCal and iSync as this hyper important.

[Wuddel]

Hum. iNotes the missing PIM-iApp note taking app?

Or a Pro-PIM as a Entourage-Killer? Sold for something like 50-100 $/€? Mail/adressbook cant keep pace with entourage.

iPhoto 3? Keynote 2?

[SilentPanda]

MARKLAR!

(I'm kidding... I don't want Marklar... I want all my Windows friends to have to not only buy the OS from Apple but even buy the hardware... make them feel the full err of their ways)

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by jimthorn
Software, eh?

iCal 1.5 would be nice.

It is nice. It's included with the latest developer seeds of Panther.

I'd see little reason to release, or even announce, new versions of the various bundled applications until Panther ships. I just don't see any sense in releasing new applications before the new OS is available.

[MacBoyX]

Originally posted by Ikash
im getting tierd of waiting for powerbooks new ipods nice but just like apple to update a product thats already been updated in teh past HUMM 5 months. common apple im not gona comite apple suicide but they need to update

Ok... this isnt the place for it but...it's obvious to me at least at this point that the delay in a new PB is for 1 major (prolly tons of minor) reason:

THE CHIPS AREN'T READY! G4's are a problem since MOTOROLA doesn't do anything they promise when they promise. I think for sure Apple's been waiting on the new G4's from MOTOROLA and they don't have them. I think you will hear of a PB announcement at the Paris Expo but it won't be for immediate release because the chips aren't at Apple yet. Apple would not have sat on new PB's for this long just to piss you off.

I think if you follow the news and rumors over the past six months, it's obvious to me that Apple wanted to release the new PBs but has not be able to.

Apple is not in the business of pissing you off personally, they are in the business of being a business...and they get as pissed as you do when they can't release a product. Trust they read these groups and know how people feel about it.

[STEP DOWN] off my soap box..

I think we're going to see Panther Announced next week at Paris Expo for a Oct/Nov time frame. I also think that we will see iCal 1.5 and iSync 1.2 tmrw..as well as maybe 10.2.7. I don't yet think we'll see the rumoured "DOCUMENT" yet. Although who knows what will be at the Paris Expo...

Someone said final iChat AV -- nope. It's going to come out with Panther and will be available for Jaguar users to BUY the same day Panther comes out.

Ok that's my 0.45 cents for today...

MacBoyX

[NoPrideELF]

nice job on the photoshopping of the powerbook. Just what I've always been dreaming about. (for what, 34 months now?)

[lewdvig]

I think iTMS for Europe would be a pretty hefty announement. It is a bigger market than the USA and a one Euro/song cost would be way cheaper than surrent CD costs over there.

It would be dynamite.

I think having a phone partner on stage to announce a new product would be cool. Maybe the successor to Soney Ericsson's P800 phone. Symbian based phones are quite popular in Europe.

Doom III demo on a G5 with Carmack saying that OS X is the best platform for that game would be great, but it is probably too soon.

I could see a Word Processor and Spreadsheet application being cool, but they would have been announced before school started. Plus I think the whole 'no IE for Mac' thing because of Safari was a warning shot fired across Apple's bow. They will want to make sure whatever they release is good enough to be the only show in town when they release it.

Pro Apps? Maybe, but we would have heard something. Alpha and especially beta testers are leaky.

Any announcements at this point will be targeted at Christmas buying season.

PowerBooks? I don't think that the 12" and 17" rev B models are worth a big fanfare. Neither will the 15" be. Its just upgrades. Like the iPods and iMacs. They will be announced after BTS buying slows down.

I think the surprise will be from a partner. Maybe a big Enterprise app or a cool exclusive. Unless iTMS for Europe counts as a software announcement...

[gopher]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Isn't it what we all wanted and more?!

No way...I want it to be 3 lbs. With an OLED foldable display and an infrared keyboard and touchpad.

[SeaFox]

Nobody has mentioned Safari 1.1 (or .2) as a potential software announcement. Something a little more stable perhaps?

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by gopher
No way...I want it to be 3 lbs. With an OLED foldable display and an infrared keyboard and touchpad.
oh yeah... right. i want it to fit on my wristwatch with an input device controlled directly by my mind and an output device that projects onto contact lenses that i have on. yeah. it's coming out next tuesday, you better believe it.

[James.Paul]

I'm hoping for a webobjects announcement. Haven't had one a Webobjects announcement for a while and with xCode coming out it will need revamping to work with that.

I think if the smaller announcements are coming out in full force this week, something big might be on it's way next week!!!

[DHagan4755]

Hmph. Apple Insider says, "Sources could not confirm a date or time for the official announcement, but did mention September 9th or 10th as likely candidates."

Arn says no PowerBooks tomorrow. Could they be announced Wednesday then, Arn?

[SilentPanda]

Originally posted by shadowfax
oh yeah... right. i want it to fit on my wristwatch with an input device controlled directly by my mind and an output device that projects onto contact lenses that i have on. yeah. it's coming out next tuesday, you better believe it.
Obviously I know you're joking but wouldn't that just rock something fierce.

Steve: "There will be no Powerbook updates... ever. Because of this one more thing."

*crowd watches in amazement*

Steve: "See this watch I've been wearing? Well it's a G8 processor with 86 GB of RAM, a Geforce 7 video card, and real surround sound. It's all projected onto this contact lense that you wear in renders so real you can't even tell the difference between it and reality. Actually you've all been wearing them for your whole life. I created Bill Gates to take the focus off me by the general world. Welcome to the Matrix ladies and gentlemen."

*steve vanishes*

[Photorun]

Wristwatch? Hell I want it nanotechnology and implanted in my brain, as well as all nine (tiny) fans.

Don't flame the messenger thinker but though I'd love love love Apple to make something as robust (and far less buggy) as Microshaft Orface BUT I'd rather they tread lightly that direction. I'm not too convinced now is the good time to release it, let Microcrud develop VirtualPeeCee for the G5 first, or something. I hate running M$ on my Macs as much as anyone but if Apple handles it wrong, i.e. irks M$ and they make their entire Orface for Windoze suite intentionally not open any Mac iWorks (or whatever they call it) some of us Macheads would be screwed.

Most of my clients are on peecees, and we have to send back and forth creative briefs and contracts, those contracts are in Word and my creative briefs in Word (so they can easily open them and read without confusion). Without this interplay I'd be dead in the water lest I buy all my clients Macs (would if I could) or (gulp) bought a peecee just so I could communicate with them (dumb). Orface for Mac, for being from Microsuck, isn't horrible either, considering I've worked on peecees it may be the best product they make actually. I don't want Apple burning the M$ bridge, not until there's good timing, that or M$ Redmond's campus gets a thermal nuclear dropped on it (I'm working in my basement to build one, it's really hard without the radioactive isotopes). One thing at a time.

[lewdvig]

The clock is ticking on the Mac native version of Office. VPC will bring you MS OS and bloatware to your Mac and Linux boxes.

They will still get your money.

EVIL!!!!

[SilentPanda]

Never mind...

[vrapan]

Sure, but if want to do anything with the songs, you have re-rip the cd all over again.

And that's what this is all about...Ripping songs from the CD...

Ummm.. For a couple of dollars more and 10 minutes to rip the CD I would buy the CD and do without the even light DRM have my songs as MP3 and not AAC and be able to sell or trade the CD if I want to. I think that iTMS is better for someone that watns to buy few songs of an album. If you want to buy the whole album you are better of buying the CD.

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Isn't it what we all wanted and more?!

nope, not even close.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by SeaFox
Nobody has mentioned Safari 1.1 (or .2) as a potential software announcement. Something a little more stable perhaps?
Yes! I mean I know Apple has changed its seeding policy for Safari, but I am surprised we haven't heard anything about Safari in a while...

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by vrapan
Ummm.. For a couple of dollars more and 10 minutes to rip the CD I would buy the CD and do without the even light DRM have my songs as MP3 and not AAC and be able to sell or trade the CD if I want to. I think that iTMS is better for someone that watns to buy few songs of an album. If you want to buy the whole album you are better of buying the CD.
I'm with you on this one. Especially when you can get bargain-basement CDs. Furthermore, when you have got the CD (when it's not the "protected" variety), you can rip it at whatever bitrate you like (you don't have to stick to that 128kbps AAc bollocks).

[mgescuro]

If iTunes for Europe is in fact ready, it woul dmake sense to announce it in Europe at the Keynote next week, don't you think??
Considering that Apple is still stating that iTunes for Windows is still targeted for end of the year, it won't be announced tomorrow. At best, it could be a Public beta. But how successful is a Public Beta on a disparate system as Windows??

Most likely, iCal, iSync, maybe even Safari.



Originally posted by trog
Software announcements? Hmmm... if its not iTunes for Windows what could it be? Can't be Panther yet. Maybe iTunes store for Europe?

How about Apple's own word processor to go with Keynote? Now that would be nice.

[eric67]

Originally posted by nagromme
I predict Paris will be a big long demo of Panther (which is software, after all), with some new features mentioned and a ship date announced no later than October. New PowerBooks too--IF Apple CAN announce them!

yes I think that is the minimal plan... Panther demoed and release date announced (do not forget MacOSX was annouced 2 years ago at Apple Expo Paris, so it can be a birthday present...
then, PowerBook will be nice, iTMS for Europe better, for Windows = better for Apple (more consumers), and finally the long-waited Apple iOffice....
one week to go

[eric67]

Originally posted by vrapan
Ummm.. For a couple of dollars more and 10 minutes to rip the CD I would buy the CD and do without the even light DRM have my songs as MP3 and not AAC and be able to sell or trade the CD if I want to. I think that iTMS is better for someone that watns to buy few songs of an album. If you want to buy the whole album you are better of buying the CD.
I agree with out, but iTMS has found a nice "niche" market = people likes to generate their own audio compilation, of what they like and want to keep ; and what they do not like..few songs on an album...
both system (full audio CD and iTMS) are NOT opposed , but simply complementary

[evolu]

Originally posted by gopher
No way...I want it to be 3 lbs. With an OLED foldable display and an infrared keyboard and touchpad.

Right on!

"Ah, hold on, let me unfold my computer and check my calendar."

Very futuristic.

[bukweet]

For what it's worth, MacBidouille is citing (http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-09-08#522) that the new iMacs do NOT use the new 7457 G4's, but rather use a revised version of the 7455.

They also speculate that this is why the new Powerbooks were not announced today.

[NoPrideELF]

Originally posted by NicoMan
I'm with you on this one. Especially when you can get bargain-basement CDs. Furthermore, when you have got the CD (when it's not the "protected" variety), you can rip it at whatever bitrate you like (you don't have to stick to that 128kbps AAc bollocks).

That's what I was saying in the first place.I couldn't believe someone actually told me they'd rather pay the same price on iTMS as the CD would cost and not actually have the CD just because they couldn't deal with inserting into their computer and having iTunes DO EVERYTHING ELSE FOR THEM.

[WishIWasntHere]

Originally posted by Macrumors
With the week not over yet, we've heard that Apple will be making software announcements tomorrow, as well as next Tuesday -- with one unexpected announcement.


If it's expected that there will be an unexpected announcement, doesn't that make it expected?

Perhaps it is expected that an announcement will be made about something unknown. ;)

[GregGomer]

i'm hopeful that it will be a new version of Logic Free, that would be great! The old educational version is so old it's not really worth using, and it's OS 9 only.

Greg

[greenstork]

Originally posted by lewdvig
The clock is ticking on the Mac native version of Office.


I would love an Apple Office Suite too but I just don't see it happening. As of right now, it would be illegal for Apple to make a program that could read/write Office 2003 files under the DCMA.

Perhaps more people should have read the Office 2003 DRM thread that ran last week. It spells bad news for any altearnative to MS Office.

See the Macrumors thread for more info:
Digital Right Management in Office 2003 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030903025737.shtml)

[CaptainScarlet]

Originally posted by NoPrideELF
That's what I was saying in the first place.I couldn't believe someone actually told me they'd rather pay the same price on iTMS as the CD would cost and not actually have the CD just because they couldn't deal with inserting into their computer and having iTunes DO EVERYTHING ELSE FOR THEM.

Dude, just re-rip the CD after you burned it...Now you can do anything with it...

iTunes selection on the other hand, is below-par....that's my only gripe!!

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by atomwork
well i understand the basic theroy but the truth is different. A 15 sec song ain't a song and should be free. Its mostly talk or something. I saw also a new album for 13.99 to buy on the apple store. Was only on CD. If you ask me that's way to hight. I just don't feel that this is so much better. It won't help to stop sucking music over peer-peer networks. Thats sad. 13.99... I rather buy it for 18 bucks and get the CD and music tracks lyric.

If the artist/label wants to give it away for free then they don't need the iTMS service for that now, do they?

If it's a 15-second track, you can:

1) Just not buy it if you don't want it
2) Buy it with the rest of the album (at album price) if you want a complete album
3) Complain to the artist about their crappy non-song tracks that are very important to you to have but not important enough for 99 cents.

Personally, I rarely value tracks that are less than a minute long ... the whole "Fingertips" series on MTBG/Apollo 18 was cute, but, even so, collectively wouldn't have garnered 99c from me ... OTOH, the few short tracks I do value I somehow am able to afford for either 99c or as a part of an album.

[SBG88]

I want a lollipop, a red one. Ooo Ooo no a grape one...

or an appleworks upgrade like the iApps that have been rumored. That would be better than a lollipop.

[cb911]

hhmmm... no PowerBooks tomorrow, eh? well they can't be far behind. now that the iMac has been updated there's no way Apple can leave the PowerBooks specs below that of their 'consumer' model. Pro's need more power after all! and i'm not just talking about power power, i'm talking about portable power! :D

and whatever iTMS is released i just hope it means i can buy songs from Australia!:D but prolly not yet...:(

[aafuss1]

Originally posted by trog
Software announcements? Hmmm... if its not iTunes for Windows what could it be? Can't be Panther yet. Maybe iTunes store for Europe?

How about Apple's own word processor to go with Keynote? Now that would be nice.

I'm thinking maybe new versions of iSync and iCal, and maybe a new version of AppleWorks (long overdue for a major new version release).

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by greenstork
I would love an Apple Office Suite too but I just don't see it happening. As of right now, it would be illegal for Apple to make a program that could read/write Office 2003 files under the DCMA.

Perhaps more people should have read the Office 2003 DRM thread that ran last week. It spells bad news for any altearnative to MS Office.

See the Macrumors thread for more info:
Digital Right Management in Office 2003 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030903025737.shtml)

This assumes that people will be using the DRM in Office. This is highly unlikely 99% of the time as it requires the latest versions of Windows/Office AND a dedicated certificate-serving Windows machine. Moreover, outside a LAN, no one can read those DRM'd documents, "allowed" or not; you can't read them on youur home PC just like you can't read them on your home Mac.

Personally, if I worked for an office with such a restrictive "Rights Management" structure I'd quit. Period.

As a home user: chances are very good you'll never see a DRM'd document, and astoundingly high that you'll never create one (how many homes do you know of operating Windows Domains with Active Directory?)

[beelzeben]

looks like one of the updates is already available.

java 1.4.1 update 1 is available in software update (39mb)

[applekid]

iCal I would like to have.

iSync I don't use it so don't care about it.

A office replacement suite... Catch-22. Apple goes forward, we lose Office and most likely, most of the compatibility with Office. Apple doesn't go forward, we have to keep paying hundreds of dollars for software that is overpriced.

What I really want is an iApp that is a slimmed down version of Soundtrack. Use QT Instruments and compose music easily using sheet music or a virtual keyboard on the screen.

Well whatever Paris brings, shouldn't be extremely cool, but the fact Steve Jobs is there leaves you wondering. Personally, I'm hoping for PBs for the sake of you people that need one (sorry, not a mobile user at the moment) and a demo of Panther that has MORE features that what's been shown. Amaze me with like 20-50 of the best features out of the over 100 like with Jaguar.

[jj2003]

Originally posted by gopher
No way...I want it to be 3 lbs. With an OLED foldable display and an infrared keyboard and touchpad.

The two first requirements are a bit harder but try using 12" Powerbook for a while and you will notice that Apple has been very good with the infrared propeties of the palm rest. It should not be hard to implement this to the keyboard and touchpad, but I would not bet on the popularity of this feature :)

[JJTiger1]

OS 9.2.5 as Classic for OS 10.2.8 and Panther.

9-2-5 = Taking care of business... get it?
=-=
May as well make it good baseless speculation....

As wishful thinking as many others who have posted....

[lewdvig]

Originally posted by jettredmont
This assumes that people will be using the DRM in Office. This is highly unlikely 99% of the time as it requires the latest versions of Windows/Office AND a dedicated certificate-serving Windows machine. Moreover, outside a LAN, no one can read those DRM'd documents, "allowed" or not; you can't read them on youur home PC just like you can't read them on your home Mac.

Personally, if I worked for an office with such a restrictive "Rights Management" structure I'd quit. Period.

As a home user: chances are very good you'll never see a DRM'd document, and astoundingly high that you'll never create one (how many homes do you know of operating Windows Domains with Active Directory?)

Common sense? That has NO PLACE HERE!

:^)

DRM on office docs is an IT support nightmare. This will die as fast as MS's subscription based consumer licensing model (they will deny it ever existed if you ask them enough).

Besides - SCO shenanigans notwithstanding - MS's hold of the corporate desktop is waning.

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by beelzeben
looks like one of the updates is already available.

java 1.4.1 update 1 is available in software update (39mb)

The Java 1.4.1 Update 1 adds the following enhancements:

• Improved Java applet support for Safari and other web browsers that support the Java Internet Plug-In.
• Improved drawing correctness and performance.
• Changes to Java 1.3.1 that provide support for Oracle11i client applications on Mac OS X.
• Improved stability, memory usage, and correctness.

For more details on this update, please visit: http://www.apple.com/java/

But I want a "fun" update like iCal or iSync! :D

[JW Pepper]

Well I will be more than happy if this increases the number of web site that will now work correctly on Macs. It is a huge dissapointment that so many site only work on Windows PC's. If it hapens to speed things up a bit too then that is a bonus.

[nitropowered]

Originally posted by freaky57
Apple really needs to get iTunes for Windows out there. Can you imagine if they have 10 millions songs just from mac users what that would be if Windows users were in on that number WOW!
Powerbooks would be nice , but so would actually having them available to ship the same day they are annouced instead of waiting for 4 months like the G5.

If apple does the "hey new Powerbooks...but one more thing you gotta wait until Chrsitmas" I wont buy it and suffer the anticipation of waiting and checking my apple status order overy other day to see if things change. Nope, not me I will actually wait until I see them in the stores.:cool:

Yeah, 10 mil songs by 5% of the computing world. Apple needs to get iTunes for Windows out the door at Paris along with iTunes Europe (you guys always get the shaft and I feel for you.) I would also like to see the eMacs updated up to par with the iMacs for those not needing a LCD. And Also, I think Apple will announce Panther at Paris for a 10/3 release date.

[Macophile]

Originally posted by eric67

both system (full audio CD and iTMS) are NOT opposed , but simply complementary

I think this is a really good point. There's an all-or-nothing approach that some people have towards CDs vs. iTMS, that it must be one or the other for everyone in every case for every song. That's not necessarily true. There are people who regard the original CD as clutter once they've ripped the songs they want. There are also people who love the tactile experience of handling a disc and flipping through liner notes (and who greatly miss the flip necessary to play the other side of a vinyl LP). Most people fall somewhere in between. It's kind of an equation involving how much you like a particular artist, how often you think you'll listen to the album or the song, and the restriction that most of us have of a finite amount of space -- on our computers and in our homes -- in which to store items that we may not desire as strongly at a later date as we do right now.

Frankly, it's nice to have options.

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by greenstork
I would love an Apple Office Suite too but I just don't see it happening. As of right now, it would be illegal for Apple to make a program that could read/write Office 2003 files under the DCMA.

Time for rumor control.

Chapter 12 of title 17--that is, the law that was passed by Congress under the DMCA--makes it illegal to circumvent access control or copy prevention measures that effectively control access to a work protected by that statute. However, it also includes specific exceptions for compatibility. Reverse engineering of an access control mechanism for the purpose of compatibility is not illegal.

Perhaps more people should have read the Office 2003 DRM thread that ran last week. It spells bad news for any altearnative to MS Office.

Perhaps, and I say this with all due respect, people should get their legal advice from legal counsel, or by reading the statutes themselves, rather than by trafficking in rumor and innuendo.

Just a suggestion.

[mainstreetmark]

Originally posted by nitropowered
... And Also, I think Apple will announce Panther at Paris for a 10/3 release date.

I doubt that. It would mean immediatly that all these rumor sites will be expecting Leopord or Cheetah or Tony The Tiger (or whatever's next) to be released next October 4th. And osXI to be released in a November. You know how these rumors get started...

Is there a way to get a list of what labels iTMS has sucked up so far? I'd like to see if they're even getting close to the stuff I'd buy.

[tizza]

I don't see why an iOffice announcement might not happen. Appleworks is so old now, and what better why to break ties with M$ !!!

[timdorr]

I can *guarantee* it's not iTunes for Windows (or iPCTunes as it's known internally). The latest internal build is nothing more that a glorified web browser with an iTunes interface. If you're worried about it being done in time, just remember amazing things can happen at the last moment ;)

I didn't think about the possibilty of Appleworks or iTunes euro. Ill ask my friend about that :D

[FriarTuck]

I wouldn't mind some additional improvements to Keynote along with the other software updates already mentioned.

Keynote looks great, but it still has a way to go in some areas.

I'd really like it to be able to play a single soundtrack across all slides.

[jj2003]

Originally posted by nitropowered
Yeah, 10 mil songs by 5% of the computing world.

Hmmm... the ones that at the moment can buy songs from the iTunes Music store are hardly 5% of the computing world.

US billing address, OS X 10.1+ and few other factors do not compute to that figure

[zync]

Someone mentioned the use of OLED displays as a joke but actually there's been rumor of Apple taking an interest in OLEDs. While I doubt that we'll see them next week, it might not be too far off. I think Panther will be announced on 10/3 because it seems to be full of Apple humor. Is there an event on 10/3? A Jobs keynote perhaps? I think we'll see updated Powerbooks next week because the year of the laptops is waning fast and the 15" especially is overdue for an overhaul. Someone also mentioned an iBook update. Seems likely actually, especially since it looks unexpected. As for the software updates this week the only logical thing would seem to be iLife app updates, anything else would probably be saved for the keynote next week as well.

[natebailey11]

I've heard rumblings from some people in Apple Education that the 15" is in fact being discontinued. I know this topic came up in a thread a few weeks ago and was quickly dismissed. Has anybody else heard anything about this? If that's true, I think that would rank in the top 5 worst decisions ever made by Apple. I personally have waited 4 months for a new 15" and I know I'm in good company. The 12" is too small and the 17" too big... at least for what I'm doing.

Anybody have insight?

[DHagan4755]

I suggested some months ago the 15-inch was going to be discontinued, leaving just the 12-inch and 17-inch PowerBooks. I thought it might move into the iBooks when they go G4.

BUT! Apple will likely update the 15-inch PowerBook soon. Think Secret says so and they're pretty accurate.

[mvc]

Originally posted by DHagan4755
I suggested some months ago the 15-inch was going to be discontinued, leaving just the 12-inch and 17-inch PowerBooks. I thought it might move into the iBooks when they go G4.

BUT! Apple will likely update the 15-inch PowerBook soon. Think Secret says so and they're pretty accurate.

There is just NO way Apple will discontinue the 15" form factor, it is the ideal size for most people, and I believe the strongest seller. What they ought to do is bump up the screen resolution to something more like their competitors - that would make it much more practical to do actual work on.

I would suggest that would be a more productive improvement than any processor upgrade short of a G5. But somehow, I don't see it happening :(

[nitropowered]

yup, the 15" is perfect. My 12" ibook is way too small (the res is only 800x600 but still, even if it was 1024 or 1280, its still small) and the 17" is way too big to be a practical mobile computer. And when i said 5% of the computing world, i ment to say less than. Even if 5% did use OSX, i doubt all would use iTunes to buy music (rethinking, i would assume around 5-15% of those who do use OSX which would turn out to around less than 1% of the total computer population) I haven't bought stuff from there yet but i plan to after i get the new 40gig ipod.

[Stike]

Originally posted by esheep2001
so now Photopro 1.0.

next week SJ will announce Apples After Effects killer and demo it on the new G5 Powerbook, then all will be well with the world.

ever the optimist
e.

Photo Pro? Apple wouldnt shoot against Adobe :rolleyes:

And After Effects? It is already killed, the app is called Shake ;) :D

[fluidinclusion]

I'm quite surprised that no one has suggested any truly "unexpected" ideas. I think there is a great chance that the announcement will relate to iChatAV.

HOWEVER, it will relate to the recent news regarding AOL, etc. I believe that cross-platform AOL/iChatAV software is coming, which will not only set a standard for other software to interoperate, but it will also allow Mac users to not be left out in the cold when they want to videochat with Windows users.

[whooleytoo]

Originally posted by madrobby
iTunes for Windows it shall be. Would be perfect timing with the new iPods... and an updated iSync so I'll get a working calendar on my Nokia... :D

Sorry to go off-topic, but what's your phone model? iCal works fine with my Nokia 7650, but you do have to edit a .plist file to switch iCal synchronizing on.

Mike.

[cubist]

Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
... However, it also includes specific exceptions for compatibility. Reverse engineering of an access control mechanism for the purpose of compatibility is not illegal...

Then how did Lexmark use the DMCA to harass people making printer cartridges compatible with their printers?

The problem with stupid laws like the DMCA is that slimy businessmen get sleazy politicians to enact laws with vague language that slick lawyers twist anyway they like. So people who bought Lexmark printers have to pay big money when the two cents' worth of ink in their cartridge runs out. That's what lawyers call justice.

[MacIke]

Originally posted by Mudbug
this is the way it needs to be to keep it fair among tracks - that way no track has any more importance than another. Sure it's 15 seconds, but if it's the only track on the album you want, then it should be worth it, right?

Wrong... it works with long sons. You cannot buy long songs seprate. You have to buy the whole CD. Example: American Pie and others. Not to mention if there are more then about 12 songs on a CD they only sell partial CDs so I cannot but 9.99 CD with 20+ songs on it.

[TMJ1974]

Originally posted by tizza
I don't see why an iOffice announcement might not happen. Appleworks is so old now, and what better why to break ties with M$ !!!

I am as big of an Apple fan as anyone here, HOWEVER, some of you need to really be careful what you wish for.

Internet Explorer has been axed, and while I like Safari....there are many sites (school most importantly) that will not work with Safari. Yes, there may be hacks...but I can't afford to rely on hacks. When I'm taking a test online, I need either IE or something that is 100% compatible. I don't like it, but I don't run the school.

Almost all of the presenatations are complicated PowerPoint files, for which I need PowerPoint, not something that is "mostly" compatible.

I liked Adobe Premiere, ooops Apple drove it away. Did any of you catch Adobe's comments to CNet this week.....they consider Apple a bigger competitive threat than Microsoft. Let's get real for a minute.....no matter how good an Apple photo program is, no matter how much you and I may like it....PHOTOSHOP will be the industry standard. Whether it's as good (as an Apple photo program) on the Mac or not, it's the best on Windows, which is 95% of the market.

The iTunes music store for Windows is a much better approach...take what's good on the Mac and share it with other 95%....I'd like to see more of this, rather than driving away companies that have put time and money into Mac products.

I true to support Microsoft as absolutely little as possible, but, sometimes they are the only common denominator between 2 people.

Just a thought.........

Tim

[Keith Purfield]

I don't know if it just was updated, but Software Update popped up and I'm currently updating Java to version 1.4.1. SU says,

The Java 1.4.1 Update 1 adds the following enhancements:

• Improved Java applet support for Safari and other web browsers that support the Java Internet Plug-In.
• Improved drawing correctness and performance.
• Changes to Java 1.3.1 that provide support for Oracle11i client applications on Mac OS X.
• Improved stability, memory usage, and correctness.

For more details on this update, please visit: http://www.apple.com/java/

Oh yeah. Whenever I go to a page with a Java game on it with Safari, Safari crashes. I'll see if this update fixes it. Hopefully, it will.

[NoPrideELF]

I found that article about the Universal price drops. Interestingly enough, It mentions iTMS. Again, if it's only a couple bucks difference, i'd say the immense physical strain that inserting a cd into a slot loader takes is probably worth the benefit of actually owning it.

Universal price drops (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3079854.stm)

[timdorr]

It's not going to be a 15" powerbook...sorry. Why not? Cause it's the only G4 laptop that still boots OS9, and it's still selling for just that reason.... Unfortunately, OSX users are still in the minority (barely).... Note: This is just from personal observations, not from my contacts within Apple, so I could be wrong :P

[Keith Purfield]

Okay. It finished installing (probably a little while ago, but it was going horribly slow).

Good news is that Safari doesn't crash on the Java games.

Bad news is that you still can't play them. It just shows the Java mug with arrows around it.

[GregA]

Originally posted by wheet
... It certianly isn't beyond imagination, though, that they would make a suite that tied together Appleworks, Keynote, iCal, Mail, iSync, Safari, and so on, into a tight package of business apps -- like iLife for the workplace. And to make it extra-unexpected - release it for Mac, Windows, & Linux.
With so many companies taking up Linux why not become THE preferred desktop suite....?

[Sol]

Considering that most Apple software has been updated allready I would say that minor new versions of the iApps will be released by next week. I also hope that Final Cut Express 2.0 will be announced since the original FCE is based on Final Cut Pro 3.

iTunes for Windows is rumoured (by this site) to be behind scedule. It is far more likely that Apple would announce the iTunes Music Store for Europe before they make the software available for Windows. After all, the show is taking place in Paris.

Now, here are my two wildcard predictions:

AppleWorks will be updated for OS X.3 and it will offer innovative integration with the .Mac service. Any Apple word-processor would likely be re-branded as part of this package since it is an established name.

x86 emulation will be offered by Apple in order to fill the gap left by Virtual PC on the G5 PowerMacs. Nothing would drive the point home that the G5 Macs are trully next-gen like an emulated Windows that runs circles around a Dell PC. Apple could make this emulator exclusive to the G5 processors so that the maximum performance could be squeezed out of it. Microsoft could then have the x86 emulation on G3s and G4s all to themselves, which they do allready since Real-PC turned out to be vapourware.

[cocoa_nut]

I think I read somewhere that Apple contributed much of the code for the "virtual machine" that Connectix used in VPC. Many folks complained bitterly when VPC 5 ran so much slower under OS X than it did under OS 9. As I recall, Connectix engineers blamed Apple's "virtual machine" for OS X saying that it was very immature at that point in time. I also remember that in 1997 the Rhapsody OS that pre-dated OS X was supposed to run both on PPC hardware as well as Intel hardware. We all know that OS X includes the Classic compatibility layer known as "Blue Box" in Rhapsody . On Intel hardware, Rhapsody was supposed to include a "Red Box" compatibility layer that permitted Windows applications to be run in a manner somewhat similar to the way Classic operates on PPC. Then there is the open source project Darwine that seeks to marry the Wine project (open source APIs that mimic the function of Windows without running a real Windows OS) with BOCHS (a hardware emulator akin to VPC but much slower at this point in time).

So you see what I'm getting at, you mix a little Wine and "Red Box" (Windows act-alike APIs) with BOCHS (x86 hardware emulation) with Apple's VPC-like virtual machine and come up with a method to run .exe files on Apple hardware.

Now, I know many folks have expressed the opinion that Apple will never do such a thing because they (Apple) learned the OS/2 lession. To paraphrase, "If Apple provided a means to run Windows apps, all developers will immediately stop developing for the Mac."

Why then do we presently have Office X? VPC has existed on the Mac for years, and yet even with a tiny marketshare, we still have Office, Illustrator, Photoshop, TurboTax, Quicken, VectoWorks, even IDL (via X11) and LabView (barely). These developer are still developing for our small market.

Then there are fine companies like Lempke (GraphicsConverter), Omni (OmniOutliner and OmniGraffle), Bias (Peak and Deck), and Emagic (Logic), that are either Mac only or who's customers are predominately Mac users. I'm guessing that these guys won't abandon Mac development if Apple releases an .exe compatibilty layer.

So I'm hoping for an "Unexpected Annoucement" that Apple has crafted an .exe compatiblility layer like Classic or X11 that will be fast enough to permit the operation of applications like MS Project, AutoCad, Cadence, or Pro-Engineer, all of which are not presently available for Mac OS X.

[spicyfry]

Originally posted by SilentPanda
Obviously I know you're joking but wouldn't that just rock something fierce.

Steve: "There will be no Powerbook updates... ever. Because of this one more thing."

*crowd watches in amazement*

Steve: "See this watch I've been wearing? Well it's a G8 processor with 86 GB of RAM, a Geforce 7 video card, and real surround sound. It's all projected onto this contact lense that you wear in renders so real you can't even tell the difference between it and reality. Actually you've all been wearing them for your whole life. I created Bill Gates to take the focus off me by the general world. Welcome to the Matrix ladies and gentlemen."

*steve vanishes*


That was one of the funniest posts I've ever read. In fact, it made me make my first post. Well, that was it.

later for you,
the new guy

[spicyfry]

Originally posted by cb911
hhmmm... no PowerBooks tomorrow, eh? well they can't be far behind. now that the iMac has been updated there's no way Apple can leave the PowerBooks specs below that of their 'consumer' model. Pro's need more power after all! and i'm not just talking about power power, i'm talking about portable power! :D

and whatever iTMS is released i just hope it means i can buy songs from Australia!:D but prolly not yet...:(

I totally agree with you about the PB update. They're gonna have to be faster than imacs and if Steve is gonna annouce them HIMSELF in Paris it's not gonna be some lame little update. It's not gonna be a G5 PB, but maybe something else. A G4 chip that's faster than the one we all expect they're gonna put in?

What about a dual configuration of G4 chips in the new PB? Is that even possible?

[bikertwin]

Wow. Folks here are suggesting everything from Final Cut Express to iWorks to a Wintel emulator as the surprise. We should feel like a kid in a candy store--gee which option do we want most!:D

For the "expected" software update, I'm hoping it's XCode.

[sparky76]

Could we just have iTMS for the UK?

[panphage]

Originally posted by sparky76
Could we just have iTMS for the UK?

Talk to the record labels. They're worried that apple might make them give some of the money from album sales to the artists that created the work.

[agentmouthwash]

and we are all going to be pissed because the Pro-laptops will have the same speed as the Non-pro-desktops (new imacs.)

COME ON APPLE, BRING ON THE POWERBOOK G5!!

[Mokona]

Well, today I ordered an IBM X31.

It's a centrino-based laptop at 1.4 GHz with integrated bluetooth and Wireless LAN. It has a 12" XGA screen and weighs in at about 3.2 lbs.

Normally, this would set me back big time, but my university had a really, and i mean shamelessly, low price. It cost me $1120... Pretty sweet. A comparable apple laptop would have costed me twice as much.

Ah, well, at this rate I'll switch again in a year and a half or so.

[Squire]

Originally posted by trog
How about Apple's own word processor to go with Keynote? Now that would be nice.

That would be very sweet. I really would rather have a kick-ass Mac word processor than MS Word. And since I can't afford any hardware right now...

Squire

[Squire]

Originally posted by temptatino
...but there's just nothing like a little apple engineering and industrial design. just look at the ipod and the aluminum books.

What books? ;)

Unexpected announcement? G3 (gobi) iBooks?

Squire

[Squire]

Originally posted by esheep2001
Just think about it. Every other app in the iLife suite has a pro version.

iMovie -> FCP4
iDVD -> DVDSP2
iTunes -> Logic6

so now Photopro 1.0.

next week SJ will announce Apples After Effects killer and demo it on the new G5 Powerbook, then all will be well with the world.

ever the optimist
e.

Okay, you're onto something here. This would be wicked although it might signal the end for Photoshop on the Mac platform. That's okay for me, though. I'm no Photoshop expert.

So my dream pics are PhotoPro 1.0 and Document 1.0 for OSX. (My TextEdit is virtually useless 'cause it's the only app I have that can't switch languages.)

Squire

[Sol]

No way would Apple release its own Photoshop. Why should they when the real thing is still being developed and supported? Why should they when most graphics artists are perfectly happy with it? Not only that but Adobe also sells Photoshop Elements which is a great application for anyone who wants Photoshop without CMYK colour support (or the high price).

As for the other idea, Apple allready sells Shake which is kind of like a high-end After Effects. Perhaps Apple could release a new iApp based on Shake especially now that After Effects is not as optimised for G4s as well as it has been for Pentiums.

[DanUk2003]

Originally posted by Sol
[B]No way would Apple release its own Photoshop


I totally agree.

I've read a lot of threads recently about why Apple should release a competitor to Photoshop, MS Office - and even an Apple digital camera and PDA...

These are all BAD ideas! Although Apple makes great software and hardware, they need to be careful not to tread on the toes of too many other companies, or face even more developers not supporting the Mac!

[mrdeep]

I know this is a software thread, but ...

Originally posted by natebailey11
I've heard rumblings from some people in Apple Education that the 15" is in fact being discontinued. I know this topic came up in a thread a few weeks ago and was quickly dismissed. Has anybody else heard anything about this? If that's true, I think that would rank in the top 5 worst decisions ever made by Apple. I personally have waited 4 months for a new 15" and I know I'm in good company. The 12" is too small and the 17" too big... at least for what I'm doing.

Anybody have insight?

straight from the rpi apple store:

POWERBOOK MODEL-END-OF-LIFE SPECIAL - While supplies last, purchase the outgoing Powerbook models at significant savings: Powerbook 12" 867MHz/640MB/40GB/Superdrive/Airport: $1600 (save $223). Powerbook 15" 1GHz/512MB/60GB/Superdrive/Airport: $1995 (save $304). There is also a special price on the 10GB iPod: $255. Purchased along with a Powerbook, receive a $200 rebate. Another $100 if you buy a printer (see offer below).

(bolds added by me)

store is here: http://www.rpi.edu/computerstore/apple.html, however a valid RPI username / ID is required to get in

That promotion has been up for aboiut 2 or 3 weeks now I think

as for software: it wasn't all perfect already?

[bobindashadows]

This is one of the biggest noob-fests ever... and since I've been around for a year and a half, that gives me seniority over the other "macrumors regular"s...

It's... crazy... I just expect something little like a Safari Update.

[the future]

Originally posted by DanUk2003
I've read a lot of threads recently about why Apple should release a competitor to Photoshop, MS Office - and even an Apple digital camera and PDA...

These are all BAD ideas! Although Apple makes great software and hardware, they need to be careful not to tread on the toes of too many other companies, or face even more developers not supporting the Mac!

You're right about Photoshop, digital cameras and PDAs. But I think an Apple Office suite could work if it imports from and exports to MS Office flawlessly and – this might be even harder – Apple is able to communicate this loud and clear to the would-be switchers. MS Office is *still* horribly overpriced and any blow to MS' evil empire is highly appreciated.

[DanUk2003]

Originally posted by the future
You're right about Photoshop, digital cameras and PDAs. But I think an Apple Office suite could work if it imports from and exports to MS Office flawlessly and – this might be even harder – Apple is able to communicate this loud and clear to the would-be switchers. MS Office is *still* horribly overpriced and any blow to MS' evil empire is highly appreciated.


Point taken...

I hate BillG and Micro$oft just as much as the next guy, and agree that any blow to them is a Good Thing. Here's to iOffice for MacOS X...!

:cool:

[GrannySmith_G5]

10:00 AM eastern time. Tuesday. no software updates yet.

[the future]

Originally posted by DanUk2003
I hate BillG and Micro$oft just as much as the next guy, and agree that any blow to them is a Good Thing. Here's to iOffice for MacOS X...! :cool:

And while we're at it: the biggest possible blow would be a lightning fast windows emulator, iDoze or something, so switchers could still use their old software, thus minimizing the (perceptioned) risk they're taking. And *without* the spyware/DRM/big brother crap, obviously. Oops, there goes MS cashcow # 2. If only this would happen/was possible...

[LegionCSUF]

I think, even with competition, MS would not want to pull Office from the Mac platform.

Recently, it was revealed that out of all their products, only two - Windows and Office - make any sort of significant money, and they finance all other MS ventures. Which is pretty much standard business practice for large companies... your big moneymakers finance your other projects.

The point in this situation is that Office revenue is very important to Microsoft. Even with an Apple-developed challenger, I don't think they'd be quick to yank their product, especially with Apple's growing market share.

I would be more worried about them fighting back (messing with their file formats, etc, to make things more difficult) than I would losing support outright. Of course, Apple could always tap into the OpenOffice community and combine efforts for cracking any new file format Microsoft comes up with, for mutual gain... I'm sure the OO crew would enjoy the help.

[hayesk]

Originally posted by Mokona
Well, today I ordered an IBM X31.

It's a centrino-based laptop at 1.4 GHz with integrated bluetooth and Wireless LAN. It has a 12" XGA screen and weighs in at about 3.2 lbs.

Normally, this would set me back big time, but my university had a really, and i mean shamelessly, low price. It cost me $1120... Pretty sweet. A comparable apple laptop would have costed me twice as much.


A comparable Apple laptop would be an iBook with an Airport card and Bluetooth module. The price is would be around $1150. I hope you aren't a math major at your university.

[Bluefusion]

Was just about to say that... thank you, hayesk.

800 MHz iBook with Bluetooth and Airport comes to $1100 or so. 900 MHz 'Book with BT and Airport comes to approximately $1400. Battery life is on par with the Centrino, and the CPU is at least as powerful (especially with Panther). Centrinos really aren't good processors, though they do make Wintel battery life LESS laughably short.

If that Centrino deal was a "shamelessly" low price, I feel bad for you... this is the standard Apple price I'm quoting, and you get Mac OS instead of Windows...

Like hayesk said, hope you're not a math major... and hope you've learned to research products better ;)

[tny]

Possible announcements, in order of decreasing likelihood.

iCal, Safari, and QuickTime updates.

Panther released on 10/3

iTunes Windows in November.

AppleWorks 7 / iOffice.

Safari Windows.

New Apple 17" Cinema display, upgrades to 20" and 23" Cinema displays.

QuickTime Movie Store announcement: new version of QuickTime integrates an MP4-based DRMed video store analogous to iTunes; movies can only be read by QuickTime and can't be burned to standard DVD format.

[bikertwin]

Originally posted by DanUk2003
I've read a lot of threads recently about why Apple should release a competitor to Photoshop ...

These are all BAD ideas! Although Apple makes great software and hardware, they need to be careful not to tread on the toes of too many other companies, or face even more developers not supporting the Mac!

Of what benefit are any of Adobe's apps to Apple? None of them have any Mac-specific features; they all run equally well on Windows (and to have Adobe tell it, they run better on Windows).

How is Adobe helping Apple? It's not.

Final Cut Pro wipes up the floor with Premiere.

DVD Studio Pro wipes up the floor with *any* Windows DVD software under $1000.

Soundtrack and LiveType are best in class on any platform.

Who's to say Apple can't create digital image software that will wipe the floor with Photoshop?

Apple already has all the parts they need:

1. The already have a GUI application framework (FCP, DVDSP, LiveType, SoundTrack, and Compressor all share the same UI components).

2. They already have image/video editing tools in FCP. Making them work with bitmaps instead of video isn't rocket science.

3. They already have image organizing tools in iPhoto.

4. They already have text and graphic manipulation in tools like DVDSP 2, LiveType, and Keynote.

I don't mean to trivialize the amount of work it takes to create a Photoshop-quality application, but Apple clearly has all the engineering skills they need.

Then they package all their Pro applications up as a suite, and sell it with a new PowerMac or PowerBook at a discount. Nobody on the Windows side can compete with that, because whatever Apple loses in software discounts it makes up in hardware markups. How can Adobe compete with that?

(In some ways, this is scary because it puts all your eggs in one basket. On the other hand, Apple really has done a bang-up job with all their Pro apps.)

[silvergunuk]

I think it's a good possibility os 10.2.8 will be out with quicktime 6.4. ical and isync updates. Ichat AV will be out but requires you to purchase for $25. New safari, itunes for windows and mac (for europeans). Release date for Panther announced. Apple announce they bought out Luxology. Pixar Renderman beta (demo). Maya unlimited. Adobe will announce their new products.

[youngr40]

Well

Tuesday has come and almost gone, so looks like other than Java 1.4.1 Update1

its all kicking off next week.

[theahnman]

I was just on the Apple Store site...just wondering, how long has the 12" w/Superdrive been 7-10 business days?

[excalibur313]

So if powerbooks won't be released this week then when will they? Is it still rumored to be released at his speech next week or what is the latest news regarding this?
Thanks,
Steve

[gujamin]

Originally posted by GrannySmith_G5
10:00 AM eastern time. Tuesday. no software updates yet.

5:00 PM Eastern Time. Tuesday. Still no software announcements (Java doesn't count because it wasn't even "announced" -> see Hot News page on Apple Website).

[Lancetx]

Originally posted by gujamin
5:00 PM Eastern Time. Tuesday. Still no software announcements (Java doesn't count because it wasn't even "announced" -> see Hot News page on Apple Website).

These rumor predictions are about as reliable as the TV weather people eh? It'll rain at some point soon I'm sure... :p

[arn]

yep...

Seems to be nothing today. Apologies for the false alarm. I guess we'll have to see how this turns out next week.

arn

[Mudbug]

well, if they were all right, then they wouldn't be rumors, would they? They'd be future insights.

I'll keep looking for stuff next week. Oh well... no skin off my back.

[lewdvig]

x86 emulation will be offered by Apple in order to fill the gap left by Virtual PC on the G5 PowerMacs. Nothing would drive the point home that the G5 Macs are trully next-gen like an emulated Windows that runs circles around a Dell PC. Apple could make this emulator exclusive to the G5 processors so that the maximum performance could be squeezed out of it. Microsoft could then have the x86 emulation on G3s and G4s all to themselves, which they do allready since Real-PC turned out to be vapourware.

You must be stuck the Jobs distortion field. If a G5 running OS X is slower than a fast Dell - and it is - how could it possiblly run Windows faster?

VPC was bought to facilitate selling Office to big corps and governments that are buying Linux. It will aslo allow them to close the Mac biz unit and cram Office for Windows down our throats.

[lewdvig]

Originally posted by Bluefusion
Was just about to say that... thank you, hayesk.

800 MHz iBook with Bluetooth and Airport comes to $1100 or so. 900 MHz 'Book with BT and Airport comes to approximately $1400. Battery life is on par with the Centrino, and the CPU is at least as powerful (especially with Panther). Centrinos really aren't good processors, though they do make Wintel battery life LESS laughably short.

If that Centrino deal was a "shamelessly" low price, I feel bad for you... this is the standard Apple price I'm quoting, and you get Mac OS instead of Windows...

Like hayesk said, hope you're not a math major... and hope you've learned to research products better ;)


This is as bad as something a wintel fanboy would say about a Mac. Centrino DESTROYS ANY IBOOK OR POWERBOOK. Clock for clock it is faster than the Athlon.

Please get your facts straight.

I am going to pit my dual G4 against my 1.6GHz notebook tonight in some benchmarks - games I think. Surely the G4 will beat the crap out of a single CPU system with an inferior video card and half as much RAM. Right?

We'll see.

[Mineral]

Did I miss the memo and they changed the day that Tuesday falls on?!?

[theahnman]

Could it possibly be that perhaps an announcement for today was accurate until Apple seemingly suffered some sort of setback regarding iTMS for Windows.

I'm sure the surprise announcement has got to be more than iCal or Safari updates. Those two don't seem to merit such a surprise.

My opinion only, of course...

[coachingguy]

iCal, iSync...new powerbooks etc...that would all be nice, and I would be happy for everyone who has been waiting...Eons for pb update, but please Steve er...Mr. Jobs, just release 10.2.8 so I can replace this dog of 10.2.6! Then I can wait happily for Panther.

[TMJ1974]

Originally posted by hayesk
A comparable Apple laptop would be an iBook with an Airport card and Bluetooth module. The price is would be around $1150. I hope you aren't a math major at your university.

Ummm...not quite. The 1.4 Centrino would be compared with the PowerBook. The Centrino has 400Mhz FSB, the PowerBook is 167Mhz, the iBook is still at 100Mhz. Pentium M's in Centrino notebooks support SSE2, and outperform their P4 brothers. The G3 doesn't support the Apple equivalent, AltiVec. The Pentium M has 1MB L2 cache on all models. I didn't buy the 12" PowerBook because Apple was cheap and cut the L3 cache.

So, in all fairness to the original post...up the Apple equivalent to $1600, with the education discount. 12" PB with BT and AE.

I had the money for a 15" PowerBook for this semester to compliment my Dual 867 PowerMac....but, I too now have a Centrino notebook (Compaq widescreen x1000). And while I still love my PowerMac and it would have to be taken from my dead hands.......I can't bash the Centrino.....it performs, as promised and better. I hate to mention it, but the next Centrino's will be at speeds in excess of 1.8GHz and have 2MB L2 cache standard and will be delivered, on time, next month.

I can only hope that a new PowerBook comes out before I buy my next laptop. Come on, the FSB should at least be double data rate...ie 266Mhz or higher.

I'm not bashing Apple....just want to point out to those who bash the other side, might want to look at the other side more objectively.

TIM

[Lancetx]

Originally posted by arn
yep...

Seems to be nothing today. Apologies for the false alarm. I guess we'll have to see how this turns out next week.

arn

Well, false alarm or not I will say this. I've had more fun in the past 4+ months I've been a Mac person than I did in the 11 years I used Windows on my home computer. There just isn't this kind of community atmosphere "over there." Just to see that people are passionate enough to get into all these rumors is really amazing. Very few people care enough on the Windows side, it's like being just one of millions of nameless and faceless drones. I don't see anyone getting excited and discussing at length what Dell, HP or even Microsoft is coming out with even months in advance. Sure, you see a little of it, but nothing like the passion is here surrounding Apple. It's honestly really addicting having this kind of a place to come to online where people care so passionately about their computer...err...I mean Mac. It really is true too, until you own one for yourself, you just don't really ever "get it" either. I know I didn't "get it" for 11 long years, but I understand now... :D

[MacIke]

Originally posted by theahnman
I was just on the Apple Store site...just wondering, how long has the 12" w/Superdrive been 7-10 business days?

Well the 15" has been 3-5 for awhile. The 17" recently (about 2 weeks ago) went from same bus day to 3-5 days. What all this means I am not to sure.

[Bluefusion]

Originally posted by TMJ1974
Ummm...not quite. The 1.4 Centrino would be compared with the PowerBook. The Centrino has 400Mhz FSB, the PowerBook is 167Mhz, the iBook is still at 100Mhz. Pentium M's in Centrino notebooks support SSE2, and outperform their P4 brothers. The G3 doesn't support the Apple equivalent, AltiVec. The Pentium M has 1MB L2 cache on all models. I didn't buy the 12" PowerBook because Apple was cheap and cut the L3 cache.


and
This is as bad as something a wintel fanboy would say about a Mac. Centrino DESTROYS ANY IBOOK OR POWERBOOK. Clock for clock it is faster than the Athlon.

Please get your facts straight.

I am going to pit my dual G4 against my 1.6GHz notebook tonight in some benchmarks - games I think. Surely the G4 will beat the crap out of a single CPU system with an inferior video card and half as much RAM. Right?


OK. OK. Unlike some "fanboys" out there, I'll own up to the fact that I may have been wrong. Every store model Centrino I've seen has been QUITE slow, and their battery life specs are only now approaching what Apple's had for years... add to that the infamous Intel Hype Machine (which has stated that "the Pentium 4 is the only way to experience the internet", "the Pentium 4 processor is the only choice for video and 3D" and "Intel's mobile technology allows for new cutting-edge wireless internet access" (cutting edge? Um, 1999, anyone?)... based on these, I've held the Centrino in low favor for quite some time.

Perhaps I was wrong. I'm willing to admit that.

Thanks TMJ for a very informative post. I don't like to be in the dark about any technology--Mac or PC--and that helped put it in perspective. (I've never said the G3 was a speed machine either.. quite the opposite, but I assumed that was also true of Centrino)

Lewdvig, do you have anything to back up the fact that it's "faster than an Athlon"? I find that rather difficult to believe--why not use them in more desktops, then? Surely we could do better than 900-watt towers (the ones at my school)...

Also, PLEASE stop using games as a test of computer performance. It's just not fair! Windows games get every tweak, every optimization, and the most current drivers. Mac users get bad ports, crappy drivers, and no tweaks at all. It's ridiculous. The only game (sadly) that really is optimized on every machine out there, that I know of, is still Quake III, much as I hate to admit it. But even with Quake the video card drivers give it ridiculous framerates... so who knows.

You're welcome to benchmark, and I would think the dual with a better card and twice the RAM will probably be better than the PC (even as optimized as the game might be), but this isn't a very good test of anything except that games are written for Windows... :P

[MacIke]

Originally posted by Bluefusion
and
[b]

OK. OK. ....

Huummmm. The post almost makes me want to go out and buy and XP with Centrino. I do not know that I could get used to the crashes and all the viruii

[lewdvig]

Originally posted by Bluefusion
and
[b]

You're welcome to benchmark, and I would think the dual with a better card and twice the RAM will probably be better than the PC (even as optimized as the game might be), but this isn't a very good test of anything except that games are written for Windows... :P

OK - you are obviously a calm and rational person.

Games are easier to benchmark - its easy for me to buy copies of Quake for both platforms, but Photoshop? Yikes!

The Centrino is 'clock for clock' as fast as an Athlon, significant faster than a P4. People are trying to get them into desktops but Intel has alot invested in P4 and its kind of embarrassing to have a lower clocked mobile chip thumping your stallion. right? But I still like P4s because they are fun to muck around with.

In blade servers Centrino would dominate the 32bit server market.

I will run the tests and see what I come up with.

I also have a spare GF FX 5200 card. I could put it into the P4 and run some Quake 3 benchies to see how it compares to the 1.6/5200 G5 tower. Hmmm.

[arn]

Originally posted by Lancetx
Well, false alarm or not I will say this. I've had more fun in the past 4+ months I've been a Mac person than I did in the 11 years I used Windows on my home computer.

Heh... glad to see you're enjoying the ride. ;) It is a strange and fun world.

So, as far as I know, I would still expect the remaining part of this rumor should hold up... we'll see next tuesday I suppose.

arn

[Squire]

Originally posted by bikertwin
Of what benefit are any of Adobe's apps to Apple? None of them have any Mac-specific features; they all run equally well on Windows (and to have Adobe tell it, they run better on Windows).

How is Adobe helping Apple? It's not.



I was thinking the same thing. I'm very happy with the way Apple software works. I wish they would make tons of iApps.

Squire

[lewdvig]

osbetas had a reader who posted shops of PhotoShop 8. Probably fake. I linked to them in a post over in the new apps thread.

[lewdvig]

Here are some Quake 3 numbers:

Demo "four" with Normal Detail quality, and no sound.


100.9 - G4 800x2/100fsb
107.8 - G4 800x2/100fsb (G4 optimized Q3 executable)
155.3 - P4M 1.6GHz/100fsb (updated)
236.3 - P4 3.36GHz/250fsb (the GF FX 5200 is in the box right now, inferior to the 8500 and definitely the 9800P)

My P4 desktop score is incredibly low due to the 5200 I think. Its just a backup card so I will update this when the 9800P is back in.

The P4s have quad pumped fsbs so they rate 400fsb and 1000fsb if you factor in the 4x data rate.

scores I saw on the Net today:
284.7 - Pentium 4 2.53GHz/133fsb
285.5 - Athlon 2100+(1733MHz)/133fsb
289.7 - Athlon 2200+(1800MHz)/133fsb
303.8 - Athlon 2400+(2000MHz)/133fsb
311.6 - Athlon 2600+(2133MHz)/133fsb
347.5 - Athlon 2600+(2083MHz)/166fsb
355.5 - Athlon 2700+(2167MHz)/166fsb
360.1 - Athlon 2800+(2250MHz)/166fsb

The PC scores from the machines that do not belong to me were derived with this hardware:
Geforce3 Ti500 (240/500)
Nforce2 chipset for Athlon tests w/ 512mb DDR
i850 chipset for Pentium 4 tests w/ 512mb RDRAM

Cinebench coming straight up.

[TMJ1974]

Originally posted by Bluefusion
and
[b]

OK. OK. Unlike some "fanboys" out there, I'll own up to the fact that I may have been wrong. Every store model Centrino I've seen has been QUITE slow, and their battery life specs are only now approaching what Apple's had for years... add to that the infamous Intel Hype Machine (which has stated that "the Pentium 4 is the only way to experience the internet", "the Pentium 4 processor is the only choice for video and 3D" and "Intel's mobile technology allows for new cutting-edge wireless internet access" (cutting edge? Um, 1999, anyone?)... based on these, I've held the Centrino in low favor for quite some time.

Perhaps I was wrong. I'm willing to admit that.

Thanks TMJ for a very informative post. I don't like to be in the dark about any technology--Mac or PC--and that helped put it in perspective. (I've never said the G3 was a speed machine either.. quite the opposite, but I assumed that was also true of Centrino)

Lewdvig, do you have anything to back up the fact that it's "faster than an Athlon"? I find that rather difficult to believe--why not use them in more desktops, then? Surely we could do better than 900-watt towers (the ones at my school)...

Also, PLEASE stop using games as a test of computer performance. It's just not fair! Windows games get every tweak, every optimization, and the most current drivers. Mac users get bad ports, crappy drivers, and no tweaks at all. It's ridiculous. The only game (sadly) that really is optimized on every machine out there, that I know of, is still Quake III, much as I hate to admit it. But even with Quake the video card drivers give it ridiculous framerates... so who knows.

You're welcome to benchmark, and I would think the dual with a better card and twice the RAM will probably be better than the PC (even as optimized as the game might be), but this isn't a very good test of anything except that games are written for Windows... :P

Bluefusion....I'm glad you saw my post as it was, just friends sharing info. Too many times on here people get into fights.

I absolutely agree, Intel has alot of hype. About the same as Apple though, if you think about it. Also, I'm with you on the battery life and WiFi, Apple was definately light years ahead there...although, neither my Centrino, nor my iBook ever get/got near the advertised battery life.

Agree once again...games are not the best comparison, for me.

Which Centrino's have you played with, and found slow....every play with the Compaq x1000.....I'm very happy with it....WinXP Pro and Linux....fast, no crashes, just performance.

Still, would I also like a PowerBook ;-) ABOSOLUTELY, but only when what's in the shell matches what I believe I should be getting for the price on the box.

BTW, I looked at your profile....happy birthday, coming soon anyway.

Tim

[NoPrideELF]

Still waiting for a 15" Albook, I was wondering if there was any confirmation to those recent rumors about them being pushed back to mid-october. Obviously nobody knows for sure, but I like everyone else, have been hoping for Paris. Everyone seems so sure of them coming at paris, yet I haven't heard anyone mention the mid-october delay in almost a week. have we just decided to ignore it because of our hopes, or was it proven wrong, or is there just more actual evidence for next week?

[lewdvig]

I just saw this on barefeets. Seemed topical:

6/28/03 -- I tested a 1.3GHz Centrino laptop (12" screen) recently. At first I was going to compare it to the 12" PowerBook. But it ran CineBench 2003 100% faster than the PowerBook G4/1GHz (17" screen). It ran Photoshop 20% faster. It ran Quake3 103% faster in 640x480 "Fastest" mode. The 17" PowerBook did, however, run Quake3 84% faster in 1024x768 "Max" mode. Probably has more video memory. Now why can't we have a 12" PowerBook that runs as fast as a Centrino? Hummm?

[TMJ1974]

Originally posted by lewdvig
The Centrino is 'clock for clock' as fast as an Athlon, significant faster than a P4. People are trying to get them into desktops but Intel has alot invested in P4 and its kind of embarrassing to have a lower clocked mobile chip thumping your stallion. right? But I still like P4s because they are fun to muck around with.


Centrino is coming to the desktop...the boards are on their way ;-) Granted, the first ones are micro ATX

Tim

[lewdvig]

First time I tried this demo. Nice render. It would have taken my old Amiga weeks to render this scene back in the day.

G4 = 2x800MHz with 1GB SDR RAM
P4 = 3.36GHz with 1GB DDR RAM w/HT
P4M = 1.6GHz with 512MB DDR RAM

My machines performed the followintg way - the G5 2x2GHz score is from Barefeats.

Time in sceonds to render the same scene (lower is better)

G4 P4M G5 P4
1 CPU 348 166 NA 77.9
x CPU 192 NA 66 65.5

G5 optimizations should increase scores another 15-20% at max.

So Mac are slow, but better and I love them. The end.

[the future]

Originally posted by lewdvig
You must be stuck the Jobs distortion field. If a G5 running OS X is slower than a fast Dell - and it is - how could it possiblly run Windows faster?

I'm just glad you're not stuck inside the Intel Hype Generator for believing a Dell, any Dell, is faster than the dual 2GHz G5...

[yujini]

I would say the centrino is the first CPU that intel made that I am truly impressed with.

A 1.7ghz centrino has the same speed as about a P4 3.0ghz.
The performance doesn't degrade that much when it is run on battery either. The P4's performance almost halvens when run on battery.

[JayBee]

Oh, by the way, this (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=3557576&linkID=1977925) appeared on Apple's Hot News yesterday.

Announcement?

[JJTiger1]

You want to keep your computer running and connected 24/7.

You want to save the world 24/7.

You want to make as many points as possible for your team 24/7.

You want to win 24/7.



.. a sucker is born every minute.

[coachingguy]

Why does nearly every posting on MacRumors become infatuated with Powerbooks? This was originally a "Apple Software Updates(this and next) Tuesday" Forum. And yet, 10-15 postings in, it became a Powerbook/hardware posting. Holy Cpu batman, get a life. Eventually, they will come, we will drool and then start asking why they didn't do A?B? or C? It would be really nice to have a topic not become overwhelmed with PB postings...
However, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[JJTiger1]

Originally posted by coachingguy
Why does nearly every posting on MacRumors become infatuated with Powerbooks? This was originally a "Apple Software Updates(this and next) Tuesday" Forum. And yet, 10-15 postings in, it became a Powerbook/hardware posting. Holy Cpu batman, get a life. Eventually, they will come, we will drool and then start asking why they didn't do A?B? or C? It would be really nice to have a topic not become overwhelmed with PB postings...
However, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.


Better question: Why does every thread go off topic?

The short answer: Attention Deficit Disorder.

Tuesday came and went with no News. May as well wish for a PowerBook.

[jer2665]

yes indeed, hooray for red jeeps

(hey, it's off topic anyway, im not hurting anything!!)

[lewdvig]

Who cares what we talk about? Its fun fun fun!

Yeah!

[lewdvig]

Originally posted by the future
I'm just glad you're not stuck inside the Intel Hype Generator for believing a Dell, any Dell, is faster than the dual 2GHz G5...

OK then, really fast Dell.

Its true that 90% of what Dell ships comes with cheapo Celerons and GF FX 5200 class cards (or worse). People get what they pay for.

Me, I've got no complaints with any of my systems (Mac or PC),

[edgar_is_good]

Originally posted by JayBee
Oh, by the way, this (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=3557576&linkID=1977925) appeared on Apple's Hot News yesterday.

Announcement?


I don't understand what you're getting at...

[themadchemist]

Funny how software updates from Apple are met with excitement, whereas software updates from Microsoft are met with scorn and trepidation...

I guess that's because Apple's got more to offer than a security update.

[JJTiger1]

Originally posted by themadchemist
Funny how software updates from Apple are met with excitement, whereas software updates from Microsoft are met with scorn and trepidation...

I guess that's because Apple's got more to offer than a security update.

It does not matter who releases the update, someone will have botched their computer so that any update will cause a malfunction of another bit of botched software.

Plausible scenario:
The vast majority of computer users have MS software.

Users botch software installations and preferences.

Most people fail to accept responsibility.

Therefore: Place the blame for software updates that don't work on your botched machine: MicroSoft.
=-=
D'oh !!

[Sol]

Originally posted by JJTiger1
Plausible scenario:
The vast majority of computer users have MS software.

Users botch software installations and preferences.

Most people fail to accept responsibility.

Therefore: Place the blame for software updates that don't work on your botched machine: MicroSoft.
=-=
D'oh !!

What you say is especially true when pirated software is part of the equation. I am not saying that legit software is always trouble free but when people build their own computers and install the OS from a CD-R they have no guarantee that anything will work as it should.

Now, where is the follow-up to OS X.2.6 allready?

[JJTiger1]

Originally posted by Sol


Now, where is the follow-up to OS X.2.6 allready?

Somewhere I have read that 10.2.7 will not be released except on the earliest G5's. 10.2.7 would therefore be "model specific". Sort of like an "enabler" as in OS 6 & 7.

Somewhere I have read that 10.2.8 might be the next OSX update, as soon as it is checked out on duallie-G5's and earlier G's.

10.2.8: I'm guessing mid-November 2003, if it gets released for most G's.

Stay tuned for 10.3 about two months after 10.2.8.

10.3: I'm guessing late January 2004.
... my guess is as good as yours.
=-=
I'm going to hold off on any OS update for my G4. My G4-733's 10.2.6 is not broken. A new OS will have to guarantee a noticeable speed boost.

[whooleytoo]

Speaking of software announcements, am I the only one who hadn't heard of these two?

vImage seems to be OS level support for graphics processing, heavily reliant on Altivec (hence the 'v'). This would allow Panther folder actions to include basic to advanced image processing and conversion - if this is correct, no wonder Adobe is nervous.

LiveFonts is a new animated font standard. One of the apps included with Final Cut Pro (LiveType) uses this feature, does anyone else know much about it?

These are two features I'd love to see demod in Paris.
Mike.