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View Full Version : Powerbooks are definatley going to be a G5 now


AHDuke99
Sep 8, 2003, 03:50 PM
Now that the iMac updates are out of the way, along with the iPods as well, it seems now that Apple is clearing time of the keynote for something big. The Powerbook was missing from the updates today, and sites claim they won't be updated tomorrow. This begs the question, why? If they are just going to be speed bumped G4's like the iMac, why would Apple wait until the Expo to release them? Your answer, because they WILL indeed be G5's. Remember when Apple ordered 40GB Hd's back when they released the first batch of Gen3 iPods but didn;t use them? They came out today. My theory is the same thing is going to happen with the G5 PB. Apple ordered 1.2~1.4 GHZ G5's along with the 1.6 and 1.8 back in May, where did they go, in the PBs. All signs point to it. Now more than ever. So here's my last spec prediction before the expo next week.


Powerbook Specs (Final Prediction)
15.4" and 17" Screens
1.2-1.4GHZ G5
600MHZ-700MHZ FSB
512K L2 Cache
512 DDR 400 RAM
Superdrive all around
64-128MB Raedon 9600 Mobility
Bluetooth
Airport Extreme
USB 2.0
Firewire 400/800


12" Powerbook
1.0-1.25GHZ MPC 7457 (When Moto finally ships it)
512K L2 Cache
1MB L3 Cache (Maybe)
256MB DDR266 RAM
Combo-Superdrive
64MB nVIDIA/ATI Raedon?
AE, FW800
USB 2.0
Backlit Keyboard (Possibly)

With one week to go, we all are in for a treat. A 1.2 GHZ G5 takes 19watts, the same as the 1.0GHZ 7455. Coolchips, a cooling company's stock has risen a lot in the past few months. They could possible be used to cool the chips. The 12" can't move to the G5 until the 90nm chips come out in Jan/Feb 2004.

patrick0brien
Sep 8, 2003, 04:04 PM
-AHDuke99

As much as I want them to come out next week, that's just not to be. We will see G5's in PB's but not until next year. There are two reasons for this: Heat and power consumption. Everything else works, but it's just too hot. Also the G5 would blaze through a battery like an Area 51m.

It's not my aim to be a killjoy, it's just physics. It'll probably be a 7455Moto in all likelyhood. And an IBM PowerPC 750XX "G4.5" on the really optimistic side.

plinkoman
Sep 8, 2003, 04:05 PM
why on earth would they upgrade the 15 and 17 to a G5 and leave the 12 as is? the 12 is a powerbook, not a weaker computer, just a smaller one, i hate how people always talk about it as if it were a glorified ibook....

Dont Hurt Me
Sep 8, 2003, 04:12 PM
g5 at 1.2 is not to hot or using to much power. how many times does this has to be said. if the powerbooks were being bumped they would announce them today or tomorrow. the expo will have a surprise. g5 powerbook is my guess.

joeyjojoe
Sep 8, 2003, 04:17 PM
i'm also thinking g5 powerbooks will be announced. apple has has about 3 months to work with g5 powerbook prototypes, and i think its safe to say they have probably addressed any heat/power issues. i think its going to be announced in paris. but thats just my speculation.

cubist
Sep 8, 2003, 04:23 PM
The heat issue isn't the main problem, the main problem is logistics. Apple has just delivered and/or announced updates to about 3/4 of their line. There is a limit to how much they can do at one time.

My prediction? Only software announcements in Paris.

Around October, the 7457 PowerBooks at 1.33MHz, all three sizes.

PowerBook G5's... they won't announce them until they're ready to ship, to avoid killing sales of the '57 books. I'd expect them around June 2004.

Prove me wrong, Steve!

(edit) Possibly an iBook update in the near future, to a faster G3.

bousozoku
Sep 8, 2003, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by cubist
The heat issue isn't the main problem, the main problem is logistics. Apple has just delivered and/or announced updates to about 3/4 of their line. There is a limit to how much they can do at one time.

My prediction? Only software announcements in Paris.

Around October, the 7457 PowerBooks at 1.33MHz, all three sizes.

PowerBook G5's... they won't announce them until they're ready to ship, to avoid killing sales of the '57 books. I'd expect them around June 2004.

Prove me wrong, Steve!

(edit) Possibly an iBook update in the near future, to a faster G3.

Motorola did say in February that the faster G4s would be available in autumn, but they were talking about much faster speeds--1.5 to 1.8 GHz. It would just be a relief to see they've gotten the 7457s out the door at all.

cubist
Sep 8, 2003, 04:51 PM
Oh, another reason for not expecting Powerbook G5's at Paris:
MacOSRumors predicts that they will be there, 70% probability.

Dreamail
Sep 8, 2003, 05:02 PM
One thing I read once was that the heat issue is not about the CPU. Afterall a 1.2GHz G5 would not produce any more heat than a 1GHz G4.

But the real issues are the accompanying ASICs. The Northbridge chip, or whatever it's called, the one that supports the faster busses, provides USB2 and FW 800. Those tend to become very hot and are power hungry too. They reportedly need to move to 90nm before being useable in a portable.
Understandably because who wants a 1.2 GHz G5 PowerBook with a 200MHz bus? Wasn't the G5 all about fast busses and faster throughput? If not we might be better off with a 1.3GHz G4 and 333MHz DDR RAM.

Dreamail out.

lewdvig
Sep 8, 2003, 05:20 PM
They already have built in slewing/powerstep features.

Plus, who says they have to be PowerBooks? Maybe they are mobile workstations. Portables are huge in the PC scene these days. Who needs much of a battery when they are plugged in all the time anyway.

AHDuke99
Sep 8, 2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-AHDuke99

As much as I want them to come out next week, that's just not to be. We will see G5's in PB's but not until next year. There are two reasons for this: Heat and power consumption. Everything else works, but it's just too hot. Also the G5 would blaze through a battery like an Area 51m.

It's not my aim to be a killjoy, it's just physics. It'll probably be a 7455Moto in all likelyhood. And an IBM PowerPC 750XX "G4.5" on the really optimistic side.

Why doesn't anyone understand? A 1.2GHZ G5 runs at the same heat as a 1.0GHZ G4 7455. Uses 19watts for the G5! This is possible and it will happen. If it was going to be 7455, they would be out by now.

AHDuke99
Sep 8, 2003, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by plinkoman
why on earth would they upgrade the 15 and 17 to a G5 and leave the 12 as is? the 12 is a powerbook, not a weaker computer, just a smaller one, i hate how people always talk about it as if it were a glorified ibook....

A cooler chip has got to be put into that, even a 867MHZ 7455 is hot enough. I don't think a G5 could work in the 12" right now. But in the bigger models it can.

Rezet
Sep 8, 2003, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by AHDuke99
Now that the iMac updates are out of the way, along with the iPods as well, it seems now that Apple is clearing time of the keynote for something big. The Powerbook was missing from the updates today, and sites claim they won't be updated tomorrow. This begs the question, why? If they are just going to be speed bumped G4's like the iMac, why would Apple wait until the Expo to release them? Your answer, because they WILL indeed be G5's. Remember when Apple ordered 40GB Hd's back when they released the first batch of Gen3 iPods but didn;t use them? They came out today. My theory is the same thing is going to happen with the G5 PB. Apple ordered 1.2~1.4 GHZ G5's along with the 1.6 and 1.8 back in May, where did they go, in the PBs. All signs point to it. Now more than ever. So here's my last spec prediction before the expo next week.


Powerbook Specs (Final Prediction)
15.4" and 17" Screens
1.2-1.4GHZ G5
600MHZ-700MHZ FSB
512K L2 Cache
512 DDR 400 RAM
Superdrive all around
64-128MB Raedon 9600 Mobility
Bluetooth
Airport Extreme
USB 2.0
Firewire 400/800


12" Powerbook
1.0-1.25GHZ MPC 7457 (When Moto finally ships it)
512K L2 Cache
1MB L3 Cache (Maybe)
256MB DDR266 RAM
Combo-Superdrive
64MB nVIDIA/ATI Raedon?
AE, FW800
USB 2.0
Backlit Keyboard (Possibly)

With one week to go, we all are in for a treat. A 1.2 GHZ G5 takes 19watts, the same as the 1.0GHZ 7455. Coolchips, a cooling company's stock has risen a lot in the past few months. They could possible be used to cool the chips. The 12" can't move to the G5 until the 90nm chips come out in Jan/Feb 2004.


Well....

pyrotoaster
Sep 8, 2003, 05:51 PM
G5's are a little unrealistic, and when the PBs do go to the G5, all three will move up.

Jodge407
Sep 8, 2003, 06:05 PM
To be honest I'm not that bothered whether we see a G5 powerbook this year or next year. I'll still be buying a 12 inch in November. If the updates were to take it from 837mhz to 1ghz then I would be happy. Hell I'd be happy with just the backlit keyboard update. As long as there's not a price increase. I would have no use for a G5 in my laptop as the only thing I would use it for is some Dreamweaver and Photoshop stuff. I do however think it is very unlikely that the PB will have a G5 this year.

Oh and my main curiosity is would the design of the PB change with the G5 update? Will they change it to look like the G5 PM?

ColoJohnBoy
Sep 8, 2003, 06:08 PM
Let us hope, and let us pray, but let us not devote to it our energies this day.


(I'm feeling quite poetic today)

mactastic
Sep 8, 2003, 06:43 PM
Ha! Well if the 'books do get announced next week, they won't ship until January!

My money's on a faster G4 before we see a G5 'book.

Sun Baked
Sep 8, 2003, 06:49 PM
Look at the new picture in the G5 Processor Module Thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=487365#post487365) ...

Look at the processor module with the heat sink still attached, it looks like even the CPU module's power supply circuit is cooled in this monster. :eek:

Powerbook G5
Sep 8, 2003, 07:00 PM
I would think G5 would bring a different case design. That seems to be the trend with Apple when introducing a new chip/technology overhaul. If they did make it look like a PowerMac, it might not look that bad. When I first saw pictures of the PowerMac after June, I thought it was ugly and an eyesore, but after seeing them in person, I have to say, they are truly great designs. I found myself just touching the case to feel how smooth and polished the design was. Everything just flows and it all adds up to be one solid machine that I'd be more than happy to display by my desk. But, I do love the current Aluminum PowerBook designs as they are today, too. A 15" Aluminum PowerBook would look damn sharp, especially with a lit up keyboard and the features of the 17". Either way, whatever Apple comes out with by the Christmas vacation time, I am buying whatever the 15" version will be. If it's 15" and has Panther running on it, I'll be happy.

cb911
Sep 8, 2003, 08:22 PM
i'd give G5 PowerBooks a 50% chance of showing at Expo Paris. most likely they would have a new case design, but there was a rumors last week that someone saw a 'G5' PowerBook, with that sort of drilled Aluminium on the palm rests.

i really don't know what to think now... :confused:

Powerbook G5
Sep 8, 2003, 08:41 PM
No way...do you have any idea how painful it would be to type a paper on a laptop with drilled holes on the palm rest? Apple wouldn't be that stupid...I hope not.

billyboy
Sep 9, 2003, 05:25 PM
maybe they have invented a user friendly grilled palm rest that has an option that lets the heat out when you are working in winter.

yujini
Sep 9, 2003, 06:09 PM
It depends on how big the holes are.
If it's small enough then it won't bother you at all.
it's not like you're going to stand on top of the powerbook's
palm rest with your bare feet. (I mean, unless if you put a lot of weight on it, it won't be a problem as long as the holes are very small)

And when someone says 1.2ghz G5 takes 19 Watts, that is related to power. After seeing that how can you say a G5 drains a battery so fast?
Though there might be external elements that affect the fast drain of the battery, I don't think the G5 itself would be a problem.
Unless, of course IBM posted some faulty specs on the website.

I think by announcing the 1.25ghz imacs before the new powerbooks (though they are using the 7455), raises the possibility that the G5 powerbooks will be announced soon (hopefully at the Paris Expo)

I hope a G5 powerbook comes out. That way I'll be able to milk this new powerbook dry until I really need another laptop upgrade.

64 bit is the future. I don't want to be using a 32bit laptop while everyone else is using one, let's say in 3-4 years.

ColoJohnBoy
Sep 9, 2003, 06:12 PM
I don't know about "definatley". "Definitely" would be more likely if at all.

hvfsl
Sep 9, 2003, 06:22 PM
Well we know this much about the upcoming PBs;
-the top end will be at least 1.25Ghz G4 (or they will be slower than the iMacs).
-Radeon 9600M 128MB (the Geforce 5200Go uses more power and is slower), but I expect the 12in will have a Radeon 9000M 64MB.
-512MB DDR333 RAM min
-USB2, Airport Extreme, Firewire800, Bluetooth

job
Sep 9, 2003, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by hvfsl
512MB DDR333 RAM min

I agree. I don't know where all these other people are getting DDR400 (PC3200) SDRAM from, but that would be too fast for even a 600/700 Mhz bus to handle. Why do you think the 1.6 tower only has PC2700?

LimeLite
Sep 9, 2003, 06:32 PM
Didn't Apple already say the G5 wouldn't be int he PowerBook for a while?

yujini
Sep 9, 2003, 06:48 PM
Though G5 powerbook would be ideal,
I won't complain if they actually have the Radeon 9600 (64meg, I doubt it's 128) in the new 15 inch powerbooks.

ColoJohnBoy
Sep 9, 2003, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by LimeLite
Didn't Apple already say the G5 wouldn't be int he PowerBook for a while?

They did, but that was back in June. For all we know awhile to Apple could be 3 or 4 months. Plus, with the issues that have been occurring with their production, as long as they aren't too deep into production, Apple could just wait a plop G5 into the suckers. Not likely, but possible.

panphage
Sep 9, 2003, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by job
I agree. I don't know where all these other people are getting DDR400 (PC3200) SDRAM from, but that would be too fast for even a 600/700 Mhz bus to handle. Why do you think the 1.6 tower only has PC2700?

EDIT: A quote for the killjoys: "And if you consider the fact that the 970's power consumption at 1.2GHz is a mere 19W, it's almost certain that we'll see a future notebook from Apple based on the new chip." From http://arstechnica.com/cpu/02q2/ppc970/ppc970-1.html


Original post:
Unfortunately, there is no DDR support in the G4, not even in the 7457. So we're only going to get the SDR bus speed anyway, maybe moto can get it up to 167Mhz but who cares?

As far as fast bus/heat killing a G5 powerbook: Everyone must read the damn ars technica article, PLEASE. The G5 at 1.8Ghz eats 42W. The G4e at 1.0Ghz uses 30W. That ain't that much difference. A P4 @ 2.8Ghz uses 68W!! Now the Pentium-M is much better, but the speeds there are more like 1.6. The ASIC may generate the majority of the heat in the G5's case, BUT, the FSB doesn't HAVE to run at 1/2 proc speed. It can run at 1/4 and we still have a slammin fast bus. Or go down to 1/6, it's possible. 1/8 as well. Whatever they need to get the heat down, the 970 supports all these steps. So a 1.4 G5 w/350Mhz FSB (a double-pumped 175, odd as that sounds) should perform pretty well for a notebook.

And maybe the 700Mhz FSB isn't impossible after all: All the bitching about the 12" PB heat problems I've heard miss the point. The heat isn't due to the proc OR the ASIC. That thing burning your left wrist in the 12" is the HARD DRIVE. Hell, the 14" ibook isn't cool to the touch around the HD, when I've felt them after a workout, the iBook 14 felt just as hot to me as the 12"PB. I didn't bust out the precision thermometer though.

PowerBook User
Sep 9, 2003, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by hvfsl
Well we know this much about the upcoming PBs;
-the top end will be at least 1.25Ghz G4 (or they will be slower than the iMacs).
-Radeon 9600M 128MB (the Geforce 5200Go uses more power and is slower), but I expect the 12in will have a Radeon 9000M 64MB.
-512MB DDR333 RAM min
-USB2, Airport Extreme, Firewire800, Bluetooth
I think specs like this would make for a nice upgrade. Right now the iMac is faster than the PowerBook G4 (at least in raw GHz).

beefcake
Sep 9, 2003, 11:29 PM
I don't see why Apple would want to rain on their own parade. Right now, with the G5 finally hitting people's desktops, it's the center of attention and will likely turn a lot of skeptical heads. If Apple goes ahead and drops a G5 PB out there, it will not only draw most of the attention, but possibly cut into PowerMac sales.

stoid
Sep 10, 2003, 12:08 AM
I think that the G5 PowerBook might not be that bad heat-wise. I thought that G4 TiBooks generated a bit of heat (they do), but the other day a friend plopped down next to me with his 1.4 GHz Pentium laptop, and within 5 minutes the hot air belching out the side exhaust fan made me start to sweat. I thought my hand might have gotten sunburned.

Jerry Spoon
Sep 10, 2003, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-AHDuke99

As much as I want them to come out next week, that's just not to be. We will see G5's in PB's but not until next year. There are two reasons for this: Heat and power consumption.

There's one more reason...keep G5 tower sales up as long as possible.

Aciddan
Sep 10, 2003, 01:27 AM
[i]If Apple goes ahead and drops a G5 PB out there, it will not only draw most of the attention, but possibly cut into PowerMac sales. [/B]

That logic is around the wrong way. I want to buy a new powebook. period. A lot of others out there are interested in a notebook only, we're not even in the market for a desktop!

Sorry beefcake but it really gets my goat when I hear a statement like "X can't be released because it will cut into Y sales".

Points:
1. It's the same company - a sale is a sale
2. If you want a desktop you'll get a desktop - conversely if you want a lappy you'll get a lappy.

Push the out the door and let the product stand on it's own feet - if it can't, then drop it and build something else (if it eats into sales then obviously the market has spoken - sell more of the product they WANT) - you don't deliberatley cripple a product.

Also, the G5 stands on its own feet as a product - heck 100k in preorders!

Nah, let's get the powerbooks out there...

-- Dan :D

Stojamow
Sep 10, 2003, 04:40 AM
Personally I think that Apple has something pretty nice to show to us in Paris.

As people have mentioned before they made iPod & iMac public a week before Paris & Paris is too big to say just "HELLO !"

They probably introduce new Powerbooks in Paris. Is it G4 or G5 I do not know. If you think realistically it is probably G4 speeded up to something like 1.25-1.5Ghz.

On the other hand. IBM mentioned earlier in this summer that G5 start's at 1.6 Ghz but if you slow down the processor a bit you can put it in the Powerbook as people have been writing here.

However this is only a question of heat & power consumption. There might be other reasons why we do not see G5 in PB's...

ONE INTERESTING POINT: many people do not believe to G5 in the PB in Paris because it took so long to Moto to get G4 work in PB. Unfortunately this is something different this time because now we are dealing with IBM whose resources are on a completely different level.

However, there is one thing I am certain: because of the the release of iPod & iMac they will have something BIG to show us.

When it comes to the question of buing a PB the issue is quite simple:

if you need it now -buy now ! If you can wait - wait, because there is no point wasting your money to something you really do not need.

:rolleyes:

hvfsl
Sep 10, 2003, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by yujini
Though G5 powerbook would be ideal,
I won't complain if they actually have the Radeon 9600 (64meg, I doubt it's 128) in the new 15 inch powerbooks.

Apple has been doubling the VRAM in its 15in powerbooks ever since the G4. The are lots of companies out there that have 128mb VRAM on their laptops, e.g. Dell.

Rev A (400 and 500) 8mb
Rev B (550 and 667) 16mb
Rev C (667 and 800) 32mb
Rev D (867 and 1000) 32 - 64mb

KLFloyd
Sep 10, 2003, 07:25 AM
No way we're seeing G5 PowerBooks in Paris.

Just for a moment forgetting the fact that there's no way they could have possibly solved all the heat/power consumption issues. There's no Way Steve Jobs is going to use the Paris Keynote for a product announcement as big as that. Sure he's reaching out to Europe, but he's going to want to be on his home turf when he announces the G5 PowerBook

My guess would be June 04 but we can always hope for January. I'm starting Law School that Fall so it would be nice to have at G5 12" PowerBook to take with me.

I think it's going to be mostly software with perhaps an update to the current PB line brining the 15" up to par with the 17" and some minor speed bumps. I personally would like to see the 12" get a major bump and be able to support more memory and have an L3 cache. When I update my PowerBook I'm going to need every ounce of power I can squeeze from it while I do like the smaller size of the 12".

My guess:
1) Panther goes GM and will ship by Halloween.
2) Updated G4 PowerBooks (maybe)
3) iTMS for Europe
4) iTMS for Windows (doubtful)

Jodge407
Sep 10, 2003, 08:58 AM
Ok I didn't know what to make of this so I'll post it here. I went into the Apple store yesterday and asked to speak to the manager. I thought the manager would know more than a salesperson. I told him that I was getting a 12 inch powerbook but not just yet. I also asked him if he thought they were going to be updated anytime soon. He said "12 inch will be getting minor updates but as for the 15" and the 17" you know about the Paris Expo so expect the unexpected thats all I can say"

He seemed as if he knew what he was talking about.

dxp4acu
Sep 10, 2003, 09:54 AM
Should we put a sticky on these forums that states Apple Store Sales Reps and Managers do not know much more than we do? Most of them are probably just reading MacRumors (or MacOSRumors! (But they've been getting better...))

And if this is the last time I see the word "Lappy" I will die a happy man!!!
Grr!

patrick0brien
Sep 10, 2003, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by panphage
As far as fast bus/heat killing a G5 powerbook: Everyone must read the damn ars technica article, PLEASE. The G5 at 1.8Ghz eats 42W. The G4e at 1.0Ghz uses 30W. That ain't that much difference. A P4 @ 2.8Ghz uses 68W!!

-panphage

Yes, but that's just the chip. As others have alluded to around here, there is a whole architecture change behind the use of the chip - Apple didn't simply plop a 970 into a 7455's slot. pretty much everything was updates, which is the big deal. And that whole kaboodle is where the heat comes from. Yes you could pop a G5 in to a powerbook, but you'd have to compromise so much it would be pointless. And we all know that Apple prefers to release a mature product rather than a half-baked one (was that a pun?).

AngryAngel
Sep 10, 2003, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by hvfsl
-Radeon 9600M 128MB

I can't see a PowerBook having twice the VRAM of the dual 2.0GHz G5....

Lanbrown
Sep 10, 2003, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by AHDuke99
Why doesn't anyone understand? A 1.2GHZ G5 runs at the same heat as a 1.0GHZ G4 7455. Uses 19watts for the G5! This is possible and it will happen. If it was going to be 7455, they would be out by now.

The 1GHz is 15 watts while the 1.2GHz G5 is 21 to 22 watts.

Why not the 7457? It offers 1.3GHz at 16.6 watts and no changes to the board at all, if Apple has the one pin that was never used.

tomf87
Sep 10, 2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by plinkoman
why on earth would they upgrade the 15 and 17 to a G5 and leave the 12 as is? the 12 is a powerbook, not a weaker computer, just a smaller one, i hate how people always talk about it as if it were a glorified ibook....

The only reason I could see for not upgrading the 12" version is heat. I was browsing the local Apple store and noticed the 12" was very hot on the left hand side. Unless they can improve the heat dispersion, I would venture to say that a CPU upgrade would cause failure in the laptop. Comparing the 867Mhz 12" and 15", the 15" was much cooler.

Any other comments on this?

illumin8
Sep 10, 2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Aciddan
... you don't deliberatley cripple a product.
You do if you're Apple. Apple has a history of delaying products that are ready for market just to milk as much cash as possible out of the current product line.

patrick0brien
Sep 10, 2003, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by tomf87
Any other comments on this?

-tomf87

Yes. CPU failure due to excessive heat in the 12"PB is very unlikely as it is very efficient at cooling. The fact that you feel the heat on the outside of the case is due to the fact that the heat is being 'sunk' from the inside - where the damage would be done. This is "A Good Thing (c)".

This is one of the motivations of moving to an Aluminum skin: the case itself can act a supplimentary heat sink. It's also why the new PB's can be so thin. The iBook, conversely runs a processor and mobo functions that is cooler, yet the machine is thicker for the same components. Why? One of the reasons is that the acrylic skin is insulating the heat - trapping it inside. Ergo the heat dissipation through the keyboard and inability to be used when closed (without a hack).

BTW- the heat you feel is in the area of the HD on the 12. The Microprocessor is under the keyboard toward the back.

tomf87
Sep 10, 2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
...

BTW- the heat you feel is in the area of the HD on the 12. The Microprocessor is under the keyboard toward the back.

D'Oh! The Apple guy said that was the proc. My bad!

But as far as the heat, no matter where it comes from, that thing gets pretty hot. Besides the small screen (I like a useful desktop area, personally), the hot surface would be enough to deter me from getting one. But I guess you get used to it....

jayscheuerle
Sep 10, 2003, 02:11 PM
I just found this on MacMoron.com...

patrick0brien
Sep 10, 2003, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by tomf87
But I guess you get used to it....

-tomf87

Yeah, it's quite a surprise when you first use it, but yes, you do get used to it after a while. It's only about 115 degrees.

patrick0brien
Sep 10, 2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
I just found this on MacMoron.com...

-jayscheuerle

Where's the leaf-blower fan? :D

MacsRgr8
Sep 10, 2003, 03:08 PM
I don't like to sound negative, but...
Didn't Apple want to move away from the "hardware announcements at MacWorlds".... the release of new iMacs and iPods being the evidence?
I'm pretty convinced NO hardware will be introduced, just the G5 and new iMacs demoed and highlighted.
I'm sure Steve will show the newest release of Panther, new i-Apps, and talk about iTMS Europe (hopefully EU Sherlock Channels, and EU iPhoto Service).

I'm gonna be there (got my K-bagde!!!!), hence I would love a PowerBook G5 intro, but some little voice inside me says: "Same as last year...." (all software).
Ofcourse the G5 demos will be fun!:)

hose this!
Sep 10, 2003, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by AHDuke99
Powerbook Specs (Final Prediction)
15.4" and 17" Screens
1.2-1.4GHZ G5
600MHZ-700MHZ FSB
512K L2 Cache
512 DDR 400 RAM
Superdrive all around
64-128MB Raedon 9600 Mobility
Bluetooth
Airport Extreme
USB 2.0
Firewire 400/800


12" Powerbook
1.0-1.25GHZ MPC 7457 (When Moto finally ships it)
512K L2 Cache
1MB L3 Cache (Maybe)
256MB DDR266 RAM
Combo-Superdrive
64MB nVIDIA/ATI Raedon?
AE, FW800
USB 2.0
Backlit Keyboard (Possibly)


I think this is a sound prediction.

A few signs, taken together as a whole, point to G5 PBs announced at Paris.

1) OS Development has at this point, far outstripped hardware development. A new G4 PB at this point would still lag

2) Al case design was made with the G5 in mind. You think Aluminium cases for both towers and powerbooks are a coincidence? It's called consistency in design. Al = G5. I don't think Apple would spend all that money designing an Al notebook case just to ditch it in a year and they wouldn't release it too far in front of its intended use (to cool a portable G5) because they would have to update the case design at an awkward time after the towers were released. Al cases were released early so they would have more than prototypes to work with - they have practical experience with them now (lesson learned from Ti book issues)

3) Speed bumped iMacs and higher-capacity iPods are just foreplay. Y'all know what's coming.

Reasons against that really don't work:
1) Apple wouldn't want to relase a G5 PowerBook because it would cannibalise G5 tower sales. Huh? We're talking about two different markets here - portable use and desktop use. Not that it would even matter, but having a 1.2 GHz PB is enough of a performance gap to differentiate the two lines. Besides, margins on portables are greater than on desktops. Even if somebody decided to buy a G5 PB as a desktop replacement, Apple would be better off.

2) Apple would want to release the new PBs in its major market, the US, so they will delay until SFExpo. Huh? Any company should be looking to its growth market and Europe is certainly a growth market for Apple, especially since the EU is a bit more aggressive about keeping MS in check. Besides, an announcement in Paris will have just as big an impact in the US as an announcement in a major US city would. Besides, if you had a great product on your hand, why wouldn't you want to try to start selling it as soon as possible?

3) The heat/power issue. Don't even get me started.

Apple, if you release a 15" G5 PB at Paris, I'll snap it up. $2.5K is a lot of money, but it'll be worth it.

If you release a 1.33 GHz 15" G4 PB - hahahahah! For $2.5K? hahahaha - no sorry, I'll stop now.

yujini
Sep 10, 2003, 08:39 PM
Great reasoning hose this!
At last someone has posted some logical reasonings.

Though I'm have no idea whether the new pb will have a G5 or not, they should have been designing the notebook architecture since they got the G5 sample.

It's not like you do
"DESKTOP FIRST! ok we're done. now let's think about the laptop"

benixau
Sep 11, 2003, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by yujini

It's not like you do
"DESKTOP FIRST! ok we're done. now let's think about the laptop"

too right - i think apple would have been like:
FASTER PROCESSOR - now lets make some machines to use it

jamall
Sep 11, 2003, 03:39 AM
SJ announces G5 Powerbooks (12" thru 17"), shipping in December/January, 1GHz to maybe 1.2GHz. Do you think Apple's portable techs have been sitting idly by since the 12 and 17 were released? Faster G4s would require almost no engineering, the more efficient chips would just slot in. Also, regardless of the processors, it would be nice to see faster hard drives, maybe 5400rpm standard with 7200rpm as BTO option.

panphage
Sep 11, 2003, 04:20 AM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-panphage

Yes, but that's just the chip. As others have alluded to around here, there is a whole architecture change behind the use of the chip - Apple didn't simply plop a 970 into a 7455's slot. pretty much everything was updates, which is the big deal. And that whole kaboodle is where the heat comes from. Yes you could pop a G5 in to a powerbook, but you'd have to compromise so much it would be pointless. And we all know that Apple prefers to release a mature product rather than a half-baked one (was that a pun?).

Did you read my whole post? I know it's long, but if you read it I tried to adress this concern. Anyone with a G5 tower want to comment on the cooling for the System Controller chip? I'm sorry, apple has had ~three years to develop a portable system for the 970 chip. They already designed the case and released it into the wild to see how it stood up. If they didn't get it solved yet, you think another four months is gonna cause a breakthrough? And don't anyone cite me 90nm chapter and verse, pentium chips are getting HOTTER as die sized decrease. Add to that the fact that the smaller processes result in smaller die sizes result in more cooling difficulties (cooling is easier with larger surface area) and that don't wash with me.

hvfsl
Sep 11, 2003, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by panphage
Did you read my whole post? I know it's long, but if you read it I tried to adress this concern. Anyone with a G5 tower want to comment on the cooling for the System Controller chip? I'm sorry, apple has had ~three years to develop a portable system for the 970 chip. They already designed the case and released it into the wild to see how it stood up. If they didn't get it solved yet, you think another four months is gonna cause a breakthrough? And don't anyone cite me 90nm chapter and verse, pentium chips are getting HOTTER as die sized decrease. Add to that the fact that the smaller processes result in smaller die sizes result in more cooling difficulties (cooling is easier with larger surface area) and that don't wash with me.

There are many companies that sell PC laptops will normal desktop P4s in them, the P4s use the biggest fans/heatsinks in the PC world. So I also don't think the heat is a major problem. But what I do see as a problem is the avaliability of G5 chips. There are always supply problems when new chips are introduced.

Also about the earier post where someone talked to a Apple Store Manager who said somthing is coming at Paris, well I have found them to be very knowable on these things. There were serval reports from Apple Store people like this before the G5, that proved to be very acurate.

tomf87
Sep 11, 2003, 08:04 AM
Thanks to charlesc for this post in the News forum... Any G5 PB guys want to comment on this? I see points in both the G5 and the updated G4 realm, so I'm neutral. I post this to just help the rumors along.. :)

Apple to Refresh PowerBooks in Paris

By:_Kasper Jade
09.11.03

For some Apple loyalists the wait for a new breed of PowerBook G4s has seemed like an eternity. Rumors routinely began to surface back in May, just prior to the company's annual World Wide Developer Conference. At the time, much of the buzz surrounded hints of a revised 15" model and soon spanned across the entire PowerBook product line.

A month later Apple's developer conference had come and gone and new PowerBooks remained as nothing more than hearsay. By mid-July sales of the current line of PowerBooks had slumped considerably in anticipation of the overdue revisions. The bi-annual Macworld trade show arrived shortly thereafter and high expectations once again turned to disappointment among eager PowerBook buyers.

With little to no explanation from the Apple, and frustration building among avid consumers, sources began to paint a muggy picture of Apple microchip supplier, Motorola. As it was reported, problems with the chip-maker's 0.13 micron process were resulting in extremely poor yields of the high-end PowerPC 7457 G4 processor, code-named 'Apollo 7.' Unfortunately for Apple, the PowerPC 7457 family of semiconductors were to power the entire line of new PowerBook G4s.

By late August the situation fared no better. Apple's two largest hardware distributors showed an almost completely depleted inventory of all current PowerBook G4 configurations. The computer company had missed out on potential millions in educational and back-to-school sales and their retailers were growing anxious. To levitate some concerns -- during the last week of August -- Apple told some of its select retail partners to expect new PowerBooks in early to mid September.

It wasn't until last week that sources began mumbling the first bits of promising information on the subject. According to an AppleInsider source, Apple's chip supplier had finally accumulated an ample supply of the faster PowerPC 7457 mobile chips. This news was soon echoed by French Mac news publisher, MacBidouille. According to the site, success rates on high-end PowerPC 7457 production improved this month with Motorola producing 30,000 and 20,000 units of the 1.25GHz and 1.3GHz chips, respectively. However, since Motorola's engagement with Apple sets a pre-defined price on microprocessors, they are currently eating a loss of approximately $125 per functional unit.

Nevertheless, AppleInsider has positively confirmed with multiple sources that the new species of PowerBook G4s will make their debut on September 16th during Apple Expo in Paris, France. While the confirmation has been specific to a remodeled 15" PowerBook, it's expected that the entire portable line will be refreshed. This information also corroborates last week's report stating all PowerBook orders would be full-filled within the two week period.

According to reliable sources, demo versions of these new PowerBooks are currently being produced and shipped to the site of the expo. Upon arrival, the laptops will be met by Apple engineers who will update their system software to the recently finalized version of Mac OS X 10.2.7 Blackrider.

Previous rumors put the new 15" PowerBook in an aluminum enclosure with ports on the sides, a backlit keyboard, USB 2.0, FireWire 800, and a 1.25 GHz PowerPC G4 processor. The 17" configuration is said to gain USB 2.0 and a 1.3GHz PowerPC G4 processor. It will be interesting to see if Motorola's current yields have allowed Apple to meet these original specifications.

Meanwhile, the computer company is also readying updates to their consumer iBooks. The new units will sport USB 2.0 and AirPort Extreme support, sources said. Additionally, the PowerPC 750FX flavor of IBM's G3 processor allows for the implementation of a 200MHz 60x bus that could potentially keep the portables running Apple's latest OS offerings at more than respectable speeds for a fraction of the cost of the PowerPC G4. Further information pertaining to the official release of these iBooks, as well as their processor generation, is currently unconfirmed.

tomf87
Sep 11, 2003, 08:05 AM
Sorry.. forgot to include where it came from...

www.appleinsider.com

Currently can't get to the article though..

panphage
Sep 11, 2003, 04:12 PM
Steve Jobs will not make an announcement about Powerbooks at the Paris Expo unless he's got G5's to brag about. An anemic update to the 7457 and aluminum enclosure for the 15 after 9 months is not something steve is going to stand up and trumpet. If it's just to be G4's @ 1.25, expect a quiet update like the imacs.

filmmaker2002
Sep 11, 2003, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by hose this!
I think this is a sound prediction.

A few signs, taken together as a whole, point to G5 PBs announced at Paris.

1) OS Development has at this point, far outstripped hardware development. A new G4 PB at this point would still lag

2) Al case design was made with the G5 in mind. You think Aluminium cases for both towers and powerbooks are a coincidence? It's called consistency in design. Al = G5. I don't think Apple would spend all that money designing an Al notebook case just to ditch it in a year and they wouldn't release it too far in front of its intended use (to cool a portable G5) because they would have to update the case design at an awkward time after the towers were released. Al cases were released early so they would have more than prototypes to work with - they have practical experience with them now (lesson learned from Ti book issues)

3) Speed bumped iMacs and higher-capacity iPods are just foreplay. Y'all know what's coming.

Reasons against that really don't work:
1) Apple wouldn't want to relase a G5 PowerBook because it would cannibalise G5 tower sales. Huh? We're talking about two different markets here - portable use and desktop use. Not that it would even matter, but having a 1.2 GHz PB is enough of a performance gap to differentiate the two lines. Besides, margins on portables are greater than on desktops. Even if somebody decided to buy a G5 PB as a desktop replacement, Apple would be better off.

2) Apple would want to release the new PBs in its major market, the US, so they will delay until SFExpo. Huh? Any company should be looking to its growth market and Europe is certainly a growth market for Apple, especially since the EU is a bit more aggressive about keeping MS in check. Besides, an announcement in Paris will have just as big an impact in the US as an announcement in a major US city would. Besides, if you had a great product on your hand, why wouldn't you want to try to start selling it as soon as possible?

3) The heat/power issue. Don't even get me started.

Apple, if you release a 15" G5 PB at Paris, I'll snap it up. $2.5K is a lot of money, but it'll be worth it.

If you release a 1.33 GHz 15" G4 PB - hahahahah! For $2.5K? hahahaha - no sorry, I'll stop now.


I like this guy...I like his post so much, I'm gonna quote the whole damn thing...why? because it makes sense!!!

revenuee
Sep 14, 2003, 01:04 AM
When the G4 Towers came out, it took over a year before the Ti Powerbook was introduced.

And althouh mimicing the Ti, the new 12 and 17 PB are made of Al, and seeing how they we're introduced 9 months ago and can't see the guys at apple going to far from that design anytime soon. My point being, that if a redesign is in order for the G5 PB as it was for all other new generation PB's, it won't happen so quickly after the release of the others.

But as am an optomist, and i would LOVE to see a G5 powerbook atleast introduced this coming week, we could maybe suggest that the Al redesign was an indication of what apple has in store for us with the G5, be it as it may, the PB's aspecially the 12 and 17 looking pretty simular to the G5 tower (well minus mesh)

but thats just wish full thinking, mixed with speculation based on past evidence, we'll all find out what STEVE has for us in 2 or 3 days anyway.

redAPPLE
Sep 14, 2003, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by beefcake
I don't see why Apple would want to rain on their own parade. Right now, with the G5 finally hitting people's desktops, it's the center of attention and will likely turn a lot of skeptical heads. If Apple goes ahead and drops a G5 PB out there, it will not only draw most of the attention, but possibly cut into PowerMac sales.

i disagree.

redAPPLE
Sep 14, 2003, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by tomf87


By late August the situation fared no better.

fared...?

According to reliable sources, demo versions of these new PowerBooks are currently being produced and shipped to the site of the expo. Upon arrival, the laptops will be met by Apple engineers who will update their system software to the recently finalized version of Mac OS X 10.2.7 Blackrider.


am i wrong or right? x.2.7 is smeagol... no?

solvs
Sep 14, 2003, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by redAPPLE
am i wrong or right? x.2.7 is smeagol... no?

Smeagol is for G5.

BlackRider is for G4.

Both 10.2.7.

iwantanewmac
Sep 14, 2003, 03:59 AM
Originally posted by plinkoman
why on earth would they upgrade the 15 and 17 to a G5 and leave the 12 as is? the 12 is a powerbook, not a weaker computer, just a smaller one, i hate how people always talk about it as if it were a glorified ibook....

Well...I think it's just that. no L3 cache.
And in a lot of cases not that faster than a 900 ibook. And considering the price.. But that's just me.

ddtlm
Sep 14, 2003, 04:56 AM
panphage:

The G5 at 1.8Ghz eats 42W. The G4e at 1.0Ghz uses 30W. That ain't that much difference. A P4 @ 2.8Ghz uses 68W!!
The numbers you quote for the G5 and G4 are "typical" power usage numbers as far as I know, whereas the Intel numbers are the maximum power usage numbers. We don't actually know how much juice a P4-M "typically" uses, or how much a G5 can use at the peak.

The ASIC may generate the majority of the heat in the G5's case, BUT, the FSB doesn't HAVE to run at 1/2 proc speed.
No, in the G5 system it is the CPU's that are sucking most of the power and generating most of the heat (which are actually the same thing in microprocessors). Just look where the heatsinks are... pretty clearly establishes where the heat is coming from and therefore where the power is going. So I don't think there's a compelling reason for a serious FSB downclock, it does make a difference in power usage... but would it be worth the performance hit? I don't think a G5 would work very well with a slow FSB, since its RAM access is apparently pretty high latency (compared to the competition) even with a fast FSB and since it has only 512k of cache.

And maybe the 700Mhz FSB isn't impossible after all: All the bitching about the 12" PB heat problems I've heard miss the point. The heat isn't due to the proc OR the ASIC. That thing burning your left wrist in the 12" is the HARD DRIVE.
I bet the disk isn't actually generating much heat (even 10k RPM SCSI disks only use about 10W when not seeking)... just the heat it does generate is not being taken away by fans and heatsinks, so it comes through the case.

And don't anyone cite me 90nm chapter and verse, pentium chips are getting HOTTER as die sized decrease.
Yeah, because the clock speed and performance-per-clock is being raised too. A 90nm chip would use less power than a 130nm chip of the same basic design, at the same clockspeed.

hose this!

1) OS Development has at this point, far outstripped hardware development. A new G4 PB at this point would still lag.
If G5 laptops can't be designed quickly enough to be released at Paris, or generate unacceptable heat, then your point is irrelevant.

Al = G5.
Rediculous. Right now, design scheme reflects "pro" and "consumer" and processors have been going whereever they are suited. I cannot think of a time when Apple made design schemes across lines to reflect on the hardware inside.

Speed bumped iMacs and higher-capacity iPods are just foreplay.
Meaningless postulation.

The heat/power issue. Don't even get me started.
Eh? For all we know a 1.2ghz G5 system would be the hottest hardware Apple has ever crammed into a laptop body. (Remember, all we have is "typical" power use figures to go by, and we have no idea how much the other system chips on each are using.) If Apple just sticks in a 1.0ghz G5 to keep things tame, then I fail to see a compelling advantage over a 1.25ghz 7457. In either case, they almost certainly would loose noticable performance over the desktop G5's, not only because of clockspeed but also because it is highly unlikely that they could reasonably run dual-channel RAM in a laptop. The 7457 has less main memory bandwidth, but that main memory is probably a lot lower latency, and it has an L3. The G5's 64-bit advantage is also pretty much negated by inability to stick more than 4GB of RAM into a laptop at this time. I'm just not seeing why a G5 laptop is a big enough deal for Apple to invest the engineering so soon.

If you release a 1.33 GHz 15" G4 PB - hahahahah! For $2.5K? hahahaha - no sorry, I'll stop now.
Imagine taking a 1.6ghz desktop G5, removing half the RAM bandwidth, and then chopping the clockspeed and FSB by 25%. Can that really beat a 1.33ghz 7457? Thats pretty much the best-case G5 laptop.

cubist
Sep 14, 2003, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by panphage
Steve Jobs will not make an announcement about Powerbooks at the Paris Expo unless he's got G5's to brag about. An anemic update to the 7457 and aluminum enclosure for the 15 after 9 months is not something steve is going to stand up and trumpet. If it's just to be G4's @ 1.25, expect a quiet update like the imacs.

Exactly right! So that's why Paris will be all about Panther and iSight, and nary a word about PowerBooks.

NavyIntel007
Sep 14, 2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by tomf87
The only reason I could see for not upgrading the 12" version is heat. I was browsing the local Apple store and noticed the 12" was very hot on the left hand side. Unless they can improve the heat dispersion, I would venture to say that a CPU upgrade would cause failure in the laptop. Comparing the 867Mhz 12" and 15", the 15" was much cooler.

Any other comments on this?

I think you're being a little dramatic about it. It gets hot... but it's using the case to disperse heat. It could use a bigger vent on the hard drive and the back but it's not that bad.

Vlade
Sep 14, 2003, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
g5 at 1.2 is not to hot or using to much power. how many times does this has to be said.

I agree, 10 watts is the same as 10 watts, 30 watts is the same as 30 watts, 75 watts is the same as 75 watts, so why do people think the G5 is so much hotter than the G4???

Gus
Sep 14, 2003, 11:35 AM
Supply and Demand.

Stores are running out of supplies of 15" PBs and close on 12" PBs, and we demand a new supply. There needs to be something released or announced soon.

"Year of the Laptop"? How about "Year of Waiting for Laptops?" ;)

Regards,
Gus

WM.
Sep 14, 2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by job
I agree. I don't know where all these other people are getting DDR400 (PC3200) SDRAM from, but that would be too fast for even a 600/700 Mhz bus to handle. Why do you think the 1.6 tower only has PC2700?
Because it has two channels of PC2700. The FSB is 800 MHz ---> around 700 MHz effective (there's some overhead on that particular kind of bus [ApplePI]). Each channel of PC2700 is 333 MHz ---> 667 MHz total effective clock speed, so PC2700 actually is a fairly good match for the FSB--and it's cheaper and cooler than the alternative, I imagine.

Point is, if there's a 1.2 GHz G5 in the PowerBook, with a 600 MHz FSB (~500 effective), it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect DDR400 (aka DDR3200) RAM to be used, since it would be silly to have a dual-channel memory system on a laptop (it would require installing DIMMs in pairs). With a 1.4 GHz G5, the FSB would probably run at 1/3 the processor speed, 467 MHz, which would also be a good match for DDR400.

As for whether we'll see G5 PBs in Paris at all, I give it a 40% chance. 60% that we see 7457s topping out at 1.25 or 1.33 GHz. Either way, we're getting a 15-incher. :)

HTH
WM

ddtlm
Sep 14, 2003, 05:41 PM
WM.: (and others I guess)

As for whether we'll see G5 PBs in Paris at all, I give it a 40% chance. 60% that we see 7457s topping out at 1.25 or 1.33 GHz.
Actually I'm gona guess that the odds of a G5 PB are even lower, perhaps 20%. The way I see it, there is just too many new bits of hardware Apple needs to design:

1) A new case. It seems pretty likely that they'll be going to aluminum, and that they'll be needed more cooling capacity, if not for current G5's then for the G5's they expect to put in there before another redesign. Also, more powerful video cards will require more cooling.

2) A new motherboard. Obviously the G5 is not using a G4 motherboard.

3) A new system controller, and possibly other chips. Since the system controller in the G5 desktops is a dual-FSB dual-DDR chip, it uses extra power (a few W perhaps), has extra pins (more complex mobo) and costs more to make. A better system controller would have only one FSB, one DDR channel, and it would integrate more periphrials so that there are fewer other chips on the mobo (which is more space efficient and generally more cost effective).

I also find it unlikely that a G5 laptop would use DDR-400, although I admit I also didn't expect DDR-333 in the Alu-17. The faster RAM uses more power. Maybe DDR-400 in the Alu-17, DDR-333 in the Alu-15.

128 MB of video RAM would be a surprise to me because that's what Apple's top-end G5 desktops have, and because it seems quite exravegant for a slow G5 (or a 7457). These systems just are not fast enough for 128 MB to seem appropriate.

Les Kern
Sep 14, 2003, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by Jodge407
He said "12 inch will be getting minor updates but as for the 15" and the 17" you know about the Paris Expo so expect the unexpected thats all I can say" He seemed as if he knew what he was talking about.

He didn't. just speculating like the rest of us. Apple isn't going to release prod info to a store manager. And if he knew, then told someone, he'd never work in tech again. Apple's sort of, well, unbelievably obsessive on that.

WM.
Sep 14, 2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by ddtlm
WM.: (and others I guess)

Actually I'm gona guess that the odds of a G5 PB are even lower, perhaps 20%. The way I see it, there is just too many new bits of hardware Apple needs to design:

1) A new case. It seems pretty likely that they'll be going to aluminum, and that they'll be needed more cooling capacity, if not for current G5's then for the G5's they expect to put in there before another redesign. Also, more powerful video cards will require more cooling.

2) A new motherboard. Obviously the G5 is not using a G4 motherboard.

3) A new system controller, and possibly other chips. Since the system controller in the G5 desktops is a dual-FSB dual-DDR chip, it uses extra power (a few W perhaps), has extra pins (more complex mobo) and costs more to make. A better system controller would have only one FSB, one DDR channel, and it would integrate more periphrials so that there are fewer other chips on the mobo (which is more space efficient and generally more cost effective).

I also find it unlikely that a G5 laptop would use DDR-400, although I admit I also didn't expect DDR-333 in the Alu-17. The faster RAM uses more power. Maybe DDR-400 in the Alu-17, DDR-333 in the Alu-15.

128 MB of video RAM would be a surprise to me because that's what Apple's top-end G5 desktops have, and because it seems quite exravegant for a slow G5 (or a 7457). These systems just are not fast enough for 128 MB to seem appropriate.
Excellent points. I do maintain that DDR400 would make sense--although I can't say I have any power consumption numbers. Any insights there?

Again, great post!
WM

ddtlm
Sep 14, 2003, 08:40 PM
WM.:

Glad you liked my post. ;) But sadly I have no numbers for how much energy gets sucked into RAM. DDR-400 does represent a 20% increase at the minimum over DDR-333 however, due to the 20% higher clock.

If I was really ambitious I would look up datasheets and find an answer...

revenuee
Sep 16, 2003, 10:00 AM
Well i guess it's settled, no G5 powerbooks for atleast a few months more

Les Kern
Sep 16, 2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
Where's the leaf-blower fan? :D

Got an e-mail this morning telling me to call Apple. They changed my "old" TiBook for a "new" 15" for the same price, so it didn't ship the other day as stated. It's certainly not a G5, so I don't have to cut up my TiBook in small, easily digestable pieces. Whew.

bousozoku
Sep 16, 2003, 11:01 AM
Was it a surprise that the PowerBooks were using G4s still? It should not have been. Wait until Spring, you'll see your G5s.

patrick0brien
Sep 16, 2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Les Kern
It's certainly not a G5, so I don't have to cut up my TiBook in small, easily digestable pieces. Whew.

-Les Kern

That's ok, I had some inside info. I just couldn't let on beyond the verbal tapdancing at the beginning of this thread.