get your anger on! dem candidates speak out

[zimv20]

i caught some of the democratic candidate debate on PBS the other day. the general level of rhetoric was oh-so-refreshingly high for most of the time.

and there was a _lot_ of anger at bush and his policies. i liked it. these guys weren't afraid to speak their minds.

a few notes:

gephardt - i normally don't like him too much, but MAN did he go on a tear on bush. red-faced, shouting, valid points, true anger. i may have to reconsider my position on him.

lieberman - developed a dislike for him during the '00 election. find him too religious and w/ his right turn signal always on (i just made that up :-). however, he is a smart guy and rebutted some things dean et. al. said w/ some intelligent and thoughtful arguments. even if i don't always agree w/ his politics, he gets it. i feel he knows what a good compromise is.

kerry - came off as articulate and knowledgeable. i liked some of the things he said.

kucinich - seemed uncomfortable but made some good points. at one point, came of as disingenuous by adopting language seemingly designed to appeal to younger voters.

dean - showed a good amount of anger. has passion in the right places, but some of the things he wanted to do didn't seem completely thought out. still, had a good rebuttal for lieberman after lieberman dismantled a couple things he said. came off as intelligent and genuine.

edwards - said some intelligent things

brawn - hardly said anything. not sure she was even part of the debate.

[patrick0brien]

-zimv20

The problem I have with Leiberman is stupid and not an issue in the States, but if elected, would becone a huge issue overseas - especially with the middle east. As a Jewish man, can you imagin the reaction the U.S. would get from the Arab countries? They'd consider the U.S. to be in the hip-pocket of Israel, regardless of reality.

It's a shame, I believe Leiberman would be an excellent president for the U.S. managment wise, but I fear the autoisolationizm that would occur.

Kerry has always been a good thinker.

However, I really wish that Biden would get involved, he'd be my choice, the man is amazing.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by patrick0brien

The problem I have with Leiberman...


i don't think he has a chance of winning the nomination. but i like him in the pack, 'cuz he's bringing up some valid issues.


However, I really wish that Biden would get involved, he'd be my choice, the man is amazing.

i've always wondered why he wasn't more on the national scene. i think he had that trajectory, but then disappeared. am i recalling correctly that he had a bout w/ cancer?

[G4scott]

So, you base your vote on who hates Bush the most... Good idea...

[mactastic]

Originally posted by G4scott
So, you base your vote on who hates Bush the most... Good idea...

Nope, I'm basing mine on who would be best for the country. Our opinions differ on who would do that.

[mcrain]

Originally posted by G4scott
So, you base your vote on who hates Bush the most... Good idea...

No, but it is very refreshing to see the Democrats finally standing up and articulating their positions and how they are different from Bush.

For a while right after 9/11 and even before that, Dems seemed like Republicans and Republicans seemed like Dems.

It's nice to have two 'different' parties again.

[G4scott]

I can't argue that both major parties are extremely 'different'

The only thing is that, they don't do much for their people anymore... Republicans are focused on international problems, and have some domestic issues that need attention.

Democrats, on the other hand, (especially in California) tax and spend like crazy, as well as other things...

The focus is no longer on constituents, but on politics, which at the rate things are going, are going to hurt people more than they help them... I think California is an example of this... I just hope something changes soon.

[mactastic]

Originally posted by G4scott

Democrats, on the other hand, (especially in California) tax and spend like crazy, as well as other things...

Here's something you might want to read before blaming all of California's woes on tax-and-spend Democrats.
The image of California as a state with especially high taxes that some candidates have promoted during the recall campaign is exaggerated, a study shows.

California ranked 19th out of the 50 states and the District of Columbia in tax burdens carried by individuals and businesses in 2000, according to a study by the Federation of Tax Administrators reported Sunday in the San Francisco Chronicle.

The ranking was based on total state and local taxes, fees and other revenue as a percentage of personal income in 2000, the most recent year for which complete data are available. That indicator is considered among the most accurate measures of tax burden, analysts said.

"There is a perception that California is a high tax-and-spend state," said Arturo Perez, an analyst with the National Conference of State Legislatures in Denver.

"It is above average. But it is far from having the highest rate of taxation."

Many Republican candidates vying to replace Gov. Davis have portrayed the state's taxes as unreasonably high and a key reason for California's fiscal crisis.

Still, the tax burden may seem more onerous because California's cost of living is among the nation's highest.

A severe housing shortage has sent home values soaring. And Californians pay steep gasoline prices.

Not to mention that the federal government has gotten larger under Bush, and that it shrunk under Clinton.

The focus is no longer on constituents, but on politics, which at the rate things are going, are going to hurt people more than they help them... I think California is an example of this... I just hope something changes soon.

I completely agree with you here, neither party is deserving of much respect IMHO. They are more concerned with humiliating and driving the opposition party from power than they are about making this country better no matter whether it gets them elected next time or not.:(

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by zimv20

i've always wondered why he wasn't more on the national scene. i think he had that trajectory, but then disappeared. am i recalling correctly that he had a bout w/ cancer?

As to Biden, I think you're right about the bout with cancer, but the last time he ran for President it was cut short because he got caught plagiarizing Neil Kinnock's speeches. At least they were good speeches.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by G4scott

Democrats, on the other hand, (especially in California) tax and spend like crazy, as well as other things...


maybe the problem w/ the country is too many people hear only the rhetoric and never bother to change their minds once contrasting evidence is presented.

[ColoJohnBoy]

For now, Dean's my man. He's the only who I completely agree with (Well, not completely, but enough) and I'll stick with him, unless.......

I've been seeing a lot of General Wesley Clark lately, and have been nothing but impressed. Here's a man that could undoubtedly beat Bush, with international renown and respect, and plenty of experience with government (not elected experience, but experience nonetheless.) If he announces his candidacy, well, then "So long, Dean. Maybe you can be VP. Hel-looooo Clark!"

Some websites for General (Haha! no pun intended) consumption:

http://www.draftclark2004.com
http://www.digitalclark.com
http://www.geocities.com/trebor_92627/Bush.htm

Enjoy!

[G4scott]

Originally posted by zimv20
maybe the problem w/ the country is too many people hear only the rhetoric and never bother to change their minds once contrasting evidence is presented.

Yes, but who in this country in their right mind would believe contrasting evidence if it went against their political views?

[zimv20]

Originally posted by G4scott
Yes, but who in this country in their right mind would believe contrasting evidence if it went against their political views?

the open-minded

[mactastic]

Originally posted by G4scott
Yes, but who in this country in their right mind would believe contrasting evidence if it went against their political views?

I'm willing to listen.

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by G4scott
Yes, but who in this country in their right mind would believe contrasting evidence if it went against their political views?

-G4scott

I'm always willing to listen - never dismissing out of hand. If you bring a good point with facts that I can verify, you just migh gain me as a believer too.