Reputation System?

[ravenvii]

I am just thinking about the jackasses and nastiness going on on those boards lately.

I'm thinking maybe adding the rep system will help solve some of the problem. It will enable us to rep people who help out or post good posts, and neg those who are being jackasses or nasty. It will also force people to consider their posts before posting.

I think it would be a good addition to the forums.

I am aware of the negatives, such as that it might limit people from expressing their true opinions. It can be open to abuse as well. But with most cases, I think it can work.

Maybe disable reps for the politics forums, and maybe the community and the current news forums, so people can continue to feel free to express their opinions there, and also enable people to give reps to people who post good posts in the Mac sections, and limit the nastiness (which the majority of, happens in the Mac sections I notice).

Just thought I'd throw this out there for discussion.

[WildCowboy]

It's been discussed a number of times, with the general feeling that the potential abuse makes it not worth it. But perhaps it's worth considering again in light of the recent perception of nastiness on the forums, if such a system would help. But my hunch is that the ones who would really care about a rep system would mostly be the ones who would abuse it. So I guess I'm still against it...I've seen it on other forums and never really found it useful.

[Blue Velvet]

I've seen it on other forums and never really found it useful.

Likewise... I've seen it mess with people's heads, and if people are being jackasses or nasty, please report their posts. That's just as simple and possibly more effective. ;)

[arn]

ya, we've talked about it before, and the bottom line is we were worried people would become obsessed with the reputation system. Kinda like how people were obsessed (and still are) with their post count.

arn

[motulist]

I think a rep system would ruin the diversity of ideas and opinions that has made the MR forums so popular. I come to MR forums because I know that when a topic is discussed I will hear a lot of different ideas and I'll hear all sides and angles of the story. If there's a problem with an Apple product and someone posts about it, lots of people will downvote it just because they're apple fans. I could give other examples, but you get the idea. The MR forums would turn into an echo chamber where people only comment about things that they think will be popular.

I agree that the recent newbies poor behavior is a growing problem that needs to be fixed, but I think an up/down vote rep system would have even worse effects.

[yg17]

It's used quite extensively on another forum I used to frequent often. Here's a general breakdown of it:

People would positive rep the staff constantly to suck up and gain brownie points
People wouldn't bother positive repping any useful posts because they found it a waste of their time
People would positive rep funny, yet extremely off topic posts, like a post where person A flames person B for asking a stupid or often asked question. Others find it funny and person A gets positive rep even though he's being a total douchebag.
People would negative rep any post they didn't like, even if there was nothing wrong with that post.

For example, I posted in a political thread there, some guy didn't like what I said, and negged me with the comment "Idiot." Do I care? No. But is the rep system being used for the purpose it's supposed to be used for? No.

[MacNut]

It would turn this place into High School, egos would inflate and someone would get thrown into a locker.:rolleyes:

[RedTomato]

I agree, a rep system is overcomplicating it, and leads to groupthink - like the karma system on slashdot. I joined slashdot in its first couple of years, but in the last few years, i just ignored the whole karma thing.

Option A:

Perhaps announce sitewide a more liberal use of the temp ban / time-out button for nastiness? That would put out a strong message.

I like temp-bans rather then perm-bans as it encourages the user to stick to the same account. Perm-bans just causes resentment and creation of sock-puppets and trolls.

Option B:

If you want to fiddle with the system, perhaps cause people to have their number of temp-bans displayed by their name on their posts. (Only if num> 0.) Then other people, newbies, and mods would know that someone has a history of stepping over the line.

If you're gonna do this, then I suggest having the displayed temp-ban number go down over time, perhaps by 1 a month or every fortnight. This encourages people to put their personal history behind them, prevents competition for the highest number of temp-bans, and encourages moving on.

Useful?

xxRedTomato

[rdowns]

First the iPhone came and havoc ensued. It died down.

Then the hacking came and havoc ensued. It died down.

Next, the iPod touch came and havoc ensued. It died down.

Leopard came and havoc is going on. It will die down.

It's an Internet forum. Don't take it so seriously and let others spoil it for you.

I think I'll go vote this thread negative. ;)

[ravenvii]

First the iPhone came and havoc ensued. It died down.


You sure about that, though? The general mood seemed to change after the iPhone. I don't think it "died" down, exactly.

Anyway, good points guys, guess the rep system is probably not going to be a good solution.

[Unspeaked]

You sure about that, though? The general mood seemed to change after the iPhone. I don't think it "died" down, exactly.


I have to agree with this.

I don't things these forums have been the same since the iPhone was released.

I certainly find myself posting less, though maybe Leopard will change that.

[mkrishnan]

It would turn this place into High School, egos would inflate and someone would get thrown into a locker.:rolleyes:

Shhh... don't talk about the hazing. What happens in the [forum name deleted] stays in the [forum name deleted]. :D

I think it might be good to "officially" endorse one or more of the marketplace rating systems (e.g. Heatware or perhaps Beerology), for a few reasons. First, it would be nice if MR were on the dropdown list. ;) Second, it would be nice if one were preferred over others so people wouldn't keep asking for feedback on some new random site. But I don't see value outside of that.

[Sesshi]

and leads to groupthink

I could have sworn...

... I'd vote for it, only if to see if the powers that be has accounted for enough negative digits :p

[Drumjim85]

I don't think it works for ebay, and I don't really see it working here either ...

[Virgil-TB2]

Likewise... I've seen it mess with people's heads, and if people are being jackasses or nasty, please report their posts. That's just as simple and possibly more effective. ;)The only one that I have ever seen that actually works is slashdots. It's a fantastic little system, but even then nothing will stop a complete jerk (especially a newbie jerk), from posting something stupid and a moderator is always required to remove the post anyway.

I would only be in favour if the system was at least as refined as slashdots and I don't think that's likely (or even possible), with this particular forum software.

Lastly, the concept that a person is "a jackass" or "not a jackass" might be a flawed concept. I am mostly an intelligent, tolerant person myself yet I am certain that I have behaved like a jackass on many occasions also, probably in this very forum. :)

Shhh... don't talk about the hazing. What happens in the [forum name deleted] stays in the [forum name deleted]. :D

I think it might be good to "officially" endorse one or more of the marketplace rating systems (e.g. Heatware or perhaps Beerology), for a few reasons. First, it would be nice if MR were on the dropdown list. ;) Second, it would be nice if one were preferred over others so people wouldn't keep asking for feedback on some new random site. But I don't see value outside of that.If we're going to be putting the digital equivalent of "gold stars" beside peoples names, how about letting us have avatars as well? :)

I'll probably either get banned or bored before I hit that 1000 post mark. :D

[rdowns]

If we're going to be putting the digital equivalent of "gold stars" beside peoples names, how about letting us have avatars as well? :)

I'll probably either get banned or bored before I hit that 1000 post mark. :D

It's 500 posts to an avatar. And you'll be one post shorter when the mods merge your 2 consecutive posts. :p

[BillyBobBongo]

It would turn this place into High School, egos would inflate and someone would get thrown into a locker.:rolleyes:

A locker!? Luxury I tell you!

When I was a lad I used to get stuffed into the rubbish bins at lunchtime! Oh...how I dreamed of being stuffed into a locker, whilst being pressed against coke cans and half eaten sandwiches! ;)

[~Shard~]

No need for a reputation system in my opinion. As previously mentioned, if there are abusive, troublesome users, simply report their posts and let our Mods do their job. :cool:

[Blue Velvet]

Lastly, the concept that a person is "a jackass" or "not a jackass" might be a flawed concept.


Perhaps so. I was merely responding to the OP... but reputation systems might bring a whole heap of trouble that we currently don't have as pointed out in yg17's post.

Anyway, spend any decent amount of time here and you soon get to know who is consistently good for valuable comment.

[~Shard~]

Anyway, spend any decent amount of time here and you soon get to know who is consistently good for valuable comment.

Reading between the lines it's obvious you are talking about me, so thanks for the compliment BV - what can I say, you're the greatest! :D ;)

[Eidorian]

Here we go again (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=368972). :D

[Jaffa Cake]

The forum does go through phases where there's a lot more sniping and general unpleasantness than normal – there's a degree of tension for a bit, then it all blows over and calm is restored, and then after a while something else comes along that gets people's backs up. Such is the way of teh interwebz.

I think one of the problems of a rating system is that it'd cause as many arguments as it solves, if not more so – I can imagine there'd be some bitterness if people didn't feel that their contributions were being rated as highly as they'd like. There's also the fact that what makes a 'good' post is a matter of opinion (as long as it's within forum rules of course) – what I may consider a good post worthy of a high rating might leave others cold.

Personally, I think it's far better to take the time to read other people's contributions and form my own opinions, rather than trust an arbitrary rating system that's potentially open to abuse.

[TBi]

I was in favour of a site-wide reputation system until i went to one thread about it and read the pro's and con's. There were a few things there i hadn't thought of regarding abuse of the system.

However what i would like is if i could have a personal reputation system that only i can see. I don't want to "block" people outright but i'd like to have help in knowing who to ignore so i can get to the main point of a thread.

The central point of this though is that only I can see the points i give to any one person. There would be no reason to abuse it.

It would be nice if you could read a thread and give points to people who give a good answer, and take away from those who give a bad one. Then future threads could be shaped so that people you rank higher will be given more prominence in the thread (highlighted) and people who rank lower will be dimmed or made smaller.

I hope i made my point clear there. Any thoughts on this?

[miniConvert]

I absolutely think the reputation system should be enabled. After all, it can always be disabled again.

[~Shard~]

A reputation system would cause me some confusion, being the Official MacRumors Bastard™ and all. Would I be aiming for a good reputation or a bad one? :confused:

:p :D ;)

[bigandy]

ohdeargodno.

i've seen this used, and i've never seen it go well.

the last time, it was on the forum of my old student union. it never recovered, and now the forums are permanently shut.

yeah, it might not happen here, but as arn said, it's about the obsession of some that spoil it for others.

i couldn't agree with him more.

[Ibjr]

If you ever dared to post that Apple screwed up something (See Stacks), within 15 minutes you would have a very bad reputation on the board.

Zealots can't be entrusted to rep fairly. Mac users are zealots.

[Eidorian]

If you ever dared to post that Apple screwed up something (See Stacks), within 15 minutes you would have a very bad reputation on the board.

Zealots can't be entrusted to rep fairly. Mac users are zealots.Then again we're more then happy to point out when Apple has screwed something up. :D

[Ibjr]

Then again we're more then happy to point out when Apple has screwed something up. :D

Some of us are but others want the heretics to burn.

[Eidorian]

Some of us are but others want the heretics to burn.Apple fans have an even greater desire to point out Apple's flaws. :p

[Ibjr]

Again, not everyone on this board. I've newbies tell old time users that they should just go back to Vista if they don't like stacks.....

[Eidorian]

Again, not everyone on this board. I've newbies tell old time users that they should just go back to Vista if they don't like stacks.....Why would the older users go back to Vista? :confused:

[Ibjr]

As if that was the only irrational part of their thought process.

[atszyman]

However what i would like is if i could have a personal reputation system that only i can see. I don't want to "block" people outright but i'd like to have help in knowing who to ignore so i can get to the main point of a thread.

The central point of this though is that only I can see the points i give to any one person. There would be no reason to abuse it.

Any thoughts on this?

This might not be so bad. if it were only a personal system that would allow you to filter threads based on your personal rankings (exempt people with under 100 posts form the filtering so that they can build a rep). Assuming the forum admin would be able to see how people had been ranked privately by others it might be a good tool for finding some repeat problem posters and deciding if a ban should be temporary or permanent in certain situations....

[twoodcc]

ya, we've talked about it before, and the bottom line is we were worried people would become obsessed with the reputation system. Kinda like how people were obsessed (and still are) with their post count.

arn

yeah i see what you mean. and i agree. i've also seen it in other forums, but didn't really see a good use for it.

and there's really nothing you can do about the post count craze.

[bigandy]

If you ever dared to post that Apple screwed up something (See Stacks), within 15 minutes you would have a very bad reputation on the board.

Zealots can't be entrusted to rep fairly. Mac users are zealots.

Half the problem, in my opinion, is the sensationalist titles for threads. "Apple Screwed Up", "OMG! APPLE 15 T3H 5UK5!!!!1" and the suchlike do nothing to promote intellectual discussions on a topic.

If someone thinks Stacks was screwed up, they should post a title like "Stacks: Why I believe they weren't done right", and open it as a discussion topic, where they ask for people's objective opinion on the issue - i.e. whether they agree or not with their statement, and why.

Why are people surprised they're flamed when they post such sensationalist, tabloid newspaper style topics?

[xsedrinam]

My opinion of course, but MR's present set up is one of the best out there.
• Prolific posters are recognized with the current numeric status, and it is left to the reader to determine if they are consistently read worthy
• Each poster has the ability to evaluate and self protect with the Ignore feature, Report post feature or Reply feature
• So, there is already in place a Reputation System, but it's properly relegated to the poster level and since it's not flaunted it is spared the previous stated abuses and manipulation.

[Stella]

If you ever dared to post that Apple screwed up something (See Stacks), within 15 minutes you would have a very bad reputation on the board.

Zealots can't be entrusted to rep fairly. Mac users are zealots.

QFT

There are too many closed minded Apple users who are unable to be objective.

Such a system would never work here.

[flopticalcube]

Why are people surprised they're flamed when they post such sensationalist, tabloid newspaper style topics?

Why do tabloids sell so well? It draws attention. Lots of immaturity around (in mind if not body).

[nickspohn]

Didn't want to make a new thread so I searched, but It would be nice to have the reputation system back..

[Blue Velvet]

It would be nice to have the reputation system back..

We never had one in the first place. ;)

As a mod, one of the last things we would want to get involved with is reputation disputes. Can you imagine how time-consuming and petty that could get?

Is it the iPhone forums that you're particularly concerned about?

[iJohnHenry]

There is a simplified system in place.

If you have a bad rep, you are in a time-out.

If you are really an *******, you are banned.

It works.

[rdowns]

Didn't want to make a new thread so I searched, but It would be nice to have the reputation system back..


Careful, you'll get a reputation for beating a dead horse. ;)

[bartelby]

Is this really going to be brought up again?

Did nickspohn read any of this thread before bringing it up again?

[rdowns]

Is this really going to be brought up again?

Did nickspohn read any of this thread before bringing it up again?


Hey, at least he did a search. :p

[MacNut]

Hey, at least he did a search. :pI was gonna complain but he said he searched so I won't criticize.:p

As for the rep system, I still say no. Unless someone can woo me with gifts my opinion hasn't changed.

[kabunaru]

Just thought I'd throw this out there for discussion.

I think it is a terrible system to add and it might discourage people from posting actually.

[nickspohn]

I obviously read the thread. It can be brought up again. If this thread was an issue in the past, I believe it would of been locked.


And yes, it is the iPhone forums i'm concerned about. It seems as the days go by, people post more and more incorrect things. While others post extremely useful stuff.

But silly me, I forgot people can still get their feelings hurt when they get a negative rep on the internet. :)

[CalBoy]

Didn't want to make a new thread so I searched, but It would be nice to have the reputation system back..

There never was one. ;) :p

But silly me, I forgot people can still get their feelings hurt when they get a negative rep on the internet. :)

It's not really about whether or not people will get their feelings hurt, but more about the abuses that can happen. Having reputation systems is fraught with potential problems, probably far more than what the system returns to the users.

In the meantime, be a helpful member and correct technical errors the old fashioned way: report posts and answer questions. :)

[MacNut]

The problem with the reputation system as stated in the past is that it would turn the site into a popularity contest. People would give a good rank to the people they like and a bad rank to the ones they don't.

[PlaceofDis]

The problem with the reputation system as stated in the past is that it would turn the site into a popularity contest. People would give a good rank to the people they like and a bad rank to the ones they don't.

or simply disagree with - with no basis for factual help etc.

plus it puts too much work on our volunteer moderators.

[rdowns]

I think it is a terrible system to add and it might discourage people from posting actually.

You say this like it's a bad thing. :D

[iJohnHenry]

Actually, actually, actually.

Nope, no problem here. :rolleyes:

[nickspohn]

In the meantime, be a helpful member and correct technical errors the old fashioned way: report posts and answer questions. :)

I'm not going to report it, because than it will get out of hand. In my view, that is just there for big issues, like spam, a war between other members, etc. There is just too much of the errors to report it to the mods.

[Blue Velvet]

I'm not going to report it, because than it will get out of hand. In my view, that is just there for big issues, like spam, a war between other members, etc. There is just too much of the errors to report it to the mods.

You're possibly right. Technical errors in posts and misinformation isn't against the forum rules... people should either ignore those posts or other members should correct them ideally without resorting to insults.

[CalBoy]

I'm not going to report it, because than it will get out of hand. In my view, that is just there for big issues, like spam, a war between other members, etc. There is just too much of the errors to report it to the mods.

You're possibly right. Technical errors in posts and misinformation isn't against the forum rules... people should either ignore those posts or other members should correct them ideally without resorting to insults.

I'm sorry, I should clarify.

I didn't mean you should report technical errors themselves, but that you should correct errors and report users who you think are abusing the forum, since that's usually one of the cases for a reputation system.

[morespce54]

...I think I'll go vote this thread negative. ;)

That's my point too. Look how peoples vote positive or negative on the same thread for complete different reasons...

Mr. A will vote positive for a thread that says there is some problem with an Apple product and Mr. A suffered from it and Miss B will vote negative for the same thread because this kind of comment hurts Apple reputation and she never had that problem to begin with.

I don't vote much anymore on MR... Sorry ;)

[GeeYouEye]

I've thought at times a reputation system would help weed out the bad information from the good. It'd be especially useful to help calm hysteria. I've seen dozens of threads where one person (nearly always a newbie) makes a sensationalist claim. Someone then quotes it and adds on some other logical implication which makes it worse, and it quickly becomes "OMG Aplle is teh evil suxxorZ!" Worse, it's usually countered, not by something to the effect of "No, you and the person you quoted are mistaken. Claim XYZ is false, so you don't need to worry about ABC," but rather by "OMG Apple is God you worthless toad! In fact I heard <some other wildly inaccurate claim that is nearly the opposite of XYZ.> Which means you're totally wrong."

If people were able to voice their displeasure at both (in such a way that both were able to see the reaction without reading through the usually several-dozen page thread (ie, reputation - I think, though it might be in a hack, that vBulletin displays latest reputation received in the UserCP), and they accumulated little red pips as a result, it might incline them to install a filter between their brain and typing fingers.

As for the mods doing extra reading work, that's what the Report Post button is for.

[MacNut]

If a newbie is posting there is a good chance they wont have a reputation to begin with.

Take any info from a person with 2 posts with a grain of salt.

[GeeYouEye]

Plenty don't though, including and especially other newbies, to the point that some threads, especially new product announcement threads, read like line noise rather than discussion.

[dukebound85]

First the iPhone came and havoc ensued. It died down.

Then the hacking came and havoc ensued. It died down.

Next, the iPod touch came and havoc ensued. It died down.

Leopard came and havoc is going on. It will die down.

It's an Internet forum. Don't take it so seriously and let others spoil it for you.

I think I'll go vote this thread negative. ;)

and now the ipad came and hell has been unleashed lol

[Consultant]

There should be reputation system from

Apple Fan
Neutral
Concern Troll

A reputation system would cause me some confusion, being the Official MacRumors Bastard™ and all. Would I be aiming for a good reputation or a bad one? :confused:

:p :D ;)

And the Official MacRumors Bastard™

[Eraserhead]

I think for the front page threads you do need some kind of reputation system, you need to get the interesting posts down to a page or so, so people can read commentary without having to read 20 pages of stuff to understand the issue at hand.

[miles01110]

I think for the front page threads you do need some kind of reputation system, you need to get the interesting posts down to a page or so, so people can read commentary without having to read 20 pages of stuff to understand the issue at hand.

This wouldn't be a reputation-by-poster system though, would it? A digg-like "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" system (reputation-by-post) seems more logical.

...although I'd hate to turn MR into digg.

[Eraserhead]

No, my idea is that it would be digg like.

[lostprophet894]

How about slashing the negativity from the equation and providing a "props" button, or something of the like.

If somebody posts something useful, other users can give props that are visible to the public. When reading through a thread, you can determine whether or not your want to read what someone has to say based on their "post count to props ratio".

Eh?

[Bennieboy©]

i was thinking about this the other day too, would be a good idea, to save from abuse maybe have it open to people like the marketplace is open? 6 months user and how ever many posts, not sure if thats possible but it'd be a good way to figure out people about the forums without digging thru tonnes of posts and such.