PDA

View Full Version : Apple Sells Two Million Copies of Leopard in First Weekend




bbarnhart
Oct 30, 2007, 08:12 AM
That's a lot of big cats. Link (http://www.rttnews.com/sp/Quickfactsnew.asp?date=10/30/2007&item=105)



xUKHCx
Oct 30, 2007, 08:14 AM
Thats 500,000 per day or about 6 per second. Thats pretty good, are there any comparable numbers for Vista.

bbarnhart
Oct 30, 2007, 08:20 AM
It would only be fair to compare retail copies of Vista with retail copies of Leopard. No OEM sales.

scotthayes
Oct 30, 2007, 08:20 AM
Vista's first week sales, 59% less than XP... (boxed copies from retail stores)

Vista first week sales (http://www.news.com/Sales-of-boxed-Vista-copies-down-over-XP/2100-1016_3-6159700.html)

Oh and the one thing that stunned me when I bought my copy of Leopard... The number of people buying a new Mac.

MacRumors
Oct 30, 2007, 09:21 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple announced today (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/10/30macosx.html) that they sold over two million copies of Mac OS X Leopard on its opening weekend.
"Early indications are that Leopard will be a huge hit with customers," said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO. "Leopard's innovative features are getting great reviews and making more people than ever think about switching to the Mac."

Leopard launched officially on Friday, October 26th at 6 p.m.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/30/apple-sells-two-million-copies-of-leopard-in-first-weekend/)

JurgenWigg
Oct 30, 2007, 09:22 AM
Sweet! All reviews I've read have been positive so far, and I think this reflects that attitude.

ruckus
Oct 30, 2007, 09:24 AM
Same here. Once I can get out to pick it up I'll give it a shot.

cubbie5150
Oct 30, 2007, 09:24 AM
I bought mine at the Barton Creek Apple store in Austin last Friday night (was in town visiting friends)....just couldn't wait until I got back home yesterday!

Mundy
Oct 30, 2007, 09:25 AM
Still waiting on the Up-To-Date DVD I ordered last Wednesday to arrive. :(

FF_productions
Oct 30, 2007, 09:25 AM
How many copies of Tiger sold in the first weekend? Anybody know?

twoodcc
Oct 30, 2007, 09:26 AM
awesome! won't be long til everyone is using leopard :apple:

iBecks
Oct 30, 2007, 09:26 AM
Sweet! All reviews I've read have been positive so far, and I think this reflects that attitude.

I wonder how many of those 2 million didn't feel positive when their installation DVD didn't work or the installation finished and all they were left with was a blue screen?

donlphi
Oct 30, 2007, 09:26 AM
Wow... the HARDDRIVE manufacturers must be thrilled. Apple employees were pimping the Backup Drives pretty hard on Friday. I bet they sold a ton of them.

~Shard~
Oct 30, 2007, 09:28 AM
Great news for Apple. I heard this report on BNN this morning as well, meaning that it's getting decent coverage, thereby resulting in more people talking and thinking about Macs - that's definitely a good thing. :cool:

siurpeeman
Oct 30, 2007, 09:28 AM
How many copies of Tiger sold in the first weekend? Anybody know?

i don't know specific numbers, but apple described leopard's weekend sales as "far outpacing the first-weekend sales of Mac OS X Tiger."

davak
Oct 30, 2007, 09:29 AM
Even more importantly than the numbers is the discussion in the general population. It really feels like when Windows XP came out.

XP was a time when a lot of people really got excited about a new OS and helped to really drive Microsoft up to this point.

With the failure of vista, Leopard is really starting to get the interest of the blogosphere and the general population.

PlaceofDis
Oct 30, 2007, 09:29 AM
How many copies of Tiger sold in the first weekend? Anybody know?

afaik that info was never released.

this is good news and shows a great adoption rate for leopard. Tiger and Panther probably never sold as well, but those updates were a lot closer together so it was easier and sometimes more practical for people to skip or wait it out longer, but the gap between Tiger>Leopard was a much longer wait and not surprisingly people jumped for the new OS. :)

arn
Oct 30, 2007, 09:29 AM
How many copies of Tiger sold in the first weekend? Anybody know?
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/10/30/leopard-weekend-sales-far-outpaced-tiger-at-2-million

Ars says it took a month to sell 2 million of Tiger

arn

kman34
Oct 30, 2007, 09:30 AM
You're right..I bought one and I'm sure a lot of other people did too.

~Shard~
Oct 30, 2007, 09:30 AM
Wow... the HARDDRIVE manufacturers must be thrilled. Apple employees were pimping the Backup Drives pretty hard on Friday. I bet they sold a ton of them.

Good point - I betcha the CEO of Seagate sent Jobs a Thank-You card. ;)

I've heard/read a couple blurbs on this news item already and both of them mentioned Time Machine specifically, so with that feature getting a lot of press, this will only result in good things for the external HDD manufacturers.

jholzner
Oct 30, 2007, 09:30 AM
I wonder how many of those 2 million didn't feel positive when their installation DVD didn't work or the installation finished and all they were left with was a blue screen?

Well, as far as the blue screen issue, you should check out this (http://daringfireball.net/2007/10/blue_in_the_face) article. It is not Apples fault but APE, which is a non sanctioned piece of software.

[edit] the article has been updated to point out that some reports of the blue screen issue didn't involve ape. Still an interesting read.

Digitalclips
Oct 30, 2007, 09:31 AM
Has anyone tried making a clone of there Time Machine back up yet? So far it has failed with Finder, Carbon Copy Cloner and Super Duper.

You may think I am crazy to want to copy a back up; but the first back up is very slow (once done it is fast) and I wanted to experiment with Airport Extreme Wi Fi backup. In case i screwed up the first backup done directly (a way to get APE to work we think) in testing this theory I tried to clone it but no dice.

If anyone knows how to let me know :)

MiGiGee
Oct 30, 2007, 09:31 AM
Wow... the HARDDRIVE manufacturers must be thrilled. Apple employees were pimping the Backup Drives pretty hard on Friday. I bet they sold a ton of them.

I arrived at the Apple store at 7pm and there was only, like, 4 hard drives left on the floor. I don't know if they just didn't have time to restock at that point, but they were obviously selling.

~Shard~
Oct 30, 2007, 09:32 AM
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/10/30/leopard-weekend-sales-far-outpaced-tiger-at-2-million

Ars says it took a month to sell 2 million of Tiger

arn

Wow, that's significant. I had no idea there would be such a differential between the 2 releases. Great for Apple!

koobcamuk
Oct 30, 2007, 09:33 AM
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/10/30/leopard-weekend-sales-far-outpaced-tiger-at-2-million

Ars says it took a month to sell 2 million of Tiger

arn

Wow, that's significant. I had no idea there would be such a differential between the 2 releases. Great for Apple!

It's good, but I think this is more important:

As a total percentage of estimated mac users at the time - has 10.5 outsold 10.4 on opening release?

i.e. there are more users now - what percentage bought 10.5?
there were less users back when 10.4 was released - what percentage bought that in the same time frame?

Digitalclips
Oct 30, 2007, 09:33 AM
Even more importantly than the numbers is the discussion in the general population. It really feels like when Windows XP came out.

XP was a time when a lot of people really got excited about a new OS and helped to really drive Microsoft up to this point.

With the failure of vista, Leopard is really starting to get the interest of the blogosphere and the general population.

I think the number is going to grow beyond the wildest dreams of all.

The tide is really turning.

I just spent some time on PC blogs and one was 90% full of PC users who were switching or had switched to OS X and in particular Leopard has them wowed. I include one typical entry from such a PC blog here
From Another Blog on a PC site: The article is lame but read the blog at bottom of the page! http://informationweek.com/blog/main...html#community
commented on Oct 30, 2007 5:56:03 AM
"I'm an MSc. in Computer Science working professionally with software development on Windows platforms for 12 years. Last year I realized seeing a friends iMac with Intel processor that, hey, this good looking machine is a PC. Great, I can buy it and run Windows on it. Would be fun to try out Mac OS also (which I have not even turned to look at before) for private stuff like photos, music and film which it said to be good at.

After 3 months I do NOT have the strength to log into Windows. It sucks, for real! I have defended Windows and loved it for 12 professional years, I know it inside out. I gave it all up in 3 months. Really! In comparison it really is worse in most aspects. And as Mac OS X has a UNIX core there is no problem to get under the hood like everyone seem to think, I would say it is the other way around. Anyway, most people do NOT want to get under the hood. You should not HAVE to get under the hood to perform basic stuff which you sometimes need to do in Windows.

Let's leave deep IT and look at stuff most people at home and at work use. I want even go into the Mac OS X built in Movie/photo/music stuff, it IS awsome. Let's look at the Office suit. I know of no-one during my professional years who wouldn't kill for beeing able to use a better word processor than Microsoft Word. Why not try out iWork Pages? The document looks better before you even start writing, and you can actually do real page layouts and typograph stuff (and it is cheaper). As well as open and save in .doc format AS WELL as .pdf, .rtf. Ever used Powerpoint? Check out iWork Keynote. You almost don't believe your eyes! And Powerpoint is what we sit and use in all offices all over the world creating crappy looking presentations paying more!

After starting using Mac OS X and the bundled software I CAN NOT believe that the world is still using Windows. The main reason I think, like for me, is that we do not know that there is an alternative. We think Macs are for "media" guys. I cannot think of one single thing I miss from Windows and that I think does something better than can be found in Mac OS X. New Leopard looks fantastic with real new groundbreaking feaures for everyday computer users which makes you more productive than ever.

I bought Apple shares for every penny I had to spare last summer. The tides must be turning now, I can hear it everywhere, I can see it everywhere. Why don't you join the movement?"

~Shard~
Oct 30, 2007, 09:34 AM
I arrived at the Apple store at 7pm and there was only, like, 4 hard drives left on the floor. I don't know if they just didn't have time to restock at that point, but they were obviously selling.

Another interesting stats to see in a couple months will be the sales #s for the external HDD manufacturers to see if there was a noticeable increase in sales corresponding to the release of Leopard - or perhaps at least the brands which Apple specifically stocks at their Stores. ;) :cool:

Markleshark
Oct 30, 2007, 09:39 AM
Wowzers. Apple FTW

~Shard~
Oct 30, 2007, 09:40 AM
As a total percentage of estimated mac users at the time - has 10.5 outsold 10.4 on opening release?

i.e. there are more users now - what percentage bought 10.5?
there were less users back when 10.4 was released - what percentage bought that in the same time frame?

I would alsao be interested is seeing this stat. Obviously more copies have been sold due to the larger Mac user base, but on a percentage basis, what % of Mac users bought Tiger upon its release versus what % of users have now bought Leopard upon its release?

Sounds like a job for Doctor Q! ;) :D

kddpop
Oct 30, 2007, 09:40 AM
i wonder if these numbers reflect the many "up to date" copies listed in the system as "backordered?" (like mine)

~kyle

sulhaq
Oct 30, 2007, 09:41 AM
I wonder how many of those 2 million didn't feel positive when their installation DVD didn't work or the installation finished and all they were left with was a blue screen?

Apple cannot test their OS with every third party application. Then no new OS would ever come out. It's a rule of thumb, when you're doing such a big thing as an OS upgrade, many unseen things can happen so: 1. Always keep a backup, 2. Switch off ALL third party enhancements before the upgrade. You shouldn't blame Apple for mistakes made by consumers. As we already know the Blue Screen is because of Application Enhancer.

With the failure of vista...

Vista is in no means a failure. Granted, I hate windoze and Vista is undoubtedly a bug ridden piece of crap, it is not a failure. Apple has 8% market share which means in the coming few years most all of 92% computers will have Vista installed. How? It comes pre-installed by the manufacturers.

Finally. I agree with everyone. External HDD sales must've skyrocketed. People are buying external HDDs because now they're so damn cheap, never hurts to have more storage, and now they have a reason to buy them i.e. Time Machine.

~Shard~
Oct 30, 2007, 09:41 AM
i wonder if these numbers reflect the many "up to date" copies listed in the system as "backordered?" (like mine)

~kyle

My guess would be that any type of order (in-store, online, back-ordered, etc.) constitutes a "sale" in Apple's books.

megfilmworks
Oct 30, 2007, 09:42 AM
People get set in their ways and unless something shakes them up or they happen to get a few minutes working with a Mac they may never discover how limited, ugly, buggy and overpriced MS products are. I think we can lay this change at the feet of the mighty iPod which has changed the Apple profile and brought the late adopters to the table.

esquire360
Oct 30, 2007, 09:43 AM
Has anyone tried making a clone of there Time Machine back up yet? So far it has failed with Finder, Carbon Copy Cloner and Super Duper.

You may think I am crazy to want to copy a back up; but the first back up is very slow (once done it is fast) and I wanted to experiment with Airport Extreme Wi Fi backup. In case i screwed up the first backup done directly (a way to get APE to work we think) in testing this theory I tried to clone it but no dice.

If anyone knows how to let me know :)

hey try turning off time machine, it might try wrighting a backup and that kills the clone?

Digital Skunk
Oct 30, 2007, 09:45 AM
So how many copies of Vista have been sold in two days? A month? So far? Just curious. Comparing the two should give a good indication of how well Mac OS X does over Vista, and which OS actually adds features users will use and use effectively. Also, how many average computer users or newbies will get the hang of "what-used-to-be" advanced features like backing up files "Time Machine" and live partitioning for Boot Camp.

I am going to wait for one of two things to happen before I get Leopard, either getting my new 17" Dual 2.8GHz MacBook Pro, or whenever Apple releases 10.5.2, because there were some issues users had with Leopard, and since I am waiting for the hype to die down, I might as well wait for an improved OS.

mediapimp
Oct 30, 2007, 09:45 AM
I installed 10.5 Friday morning on both my MacBook Pro and my wifes MacBook. Installation went flawlessly on my MBP but I got the blue screen on the MacBook.

I think it is more or less a matter of patience when it comes to this as I let it sit for a while at the blue screen and then decided to shut it down by holding the power button on the MacBook. I then pressed it again to start it up and gave it a few more minutes and after maybe 5 minutes, it got past the blue screen and everything worked flawlessly and has been since.

Don't know if any of the others out there complaining have tried this method, but if anyone from these boards experience it when installing, give it a try.

~Shard~
Oct 30, 2007, 09:46 AM
Finally. I agree with everyone. External HDD sales must've skyrocketed. People are buying external HDDs because now they're so damn cheap, never hurts to have more storage, and now they have a reason to buy them i.e. Time Machine.

Totally agree. Not only is external storage hitting a sweet price point for the average consumer now, but with Time Machine there is even more reason to buy an external HDD.

Another factor, at least for me, is that a few years ago, if my HDD crashed, I lost maybe 30GB of data. Bad, but not horrible. But if I had a 500GB HDD in my iMac which was near capacity, and that crashed? Yikes! :eek:

As drives get larger and subsequently more valuable in terms of the volume of data being stored, backing up that data is going to become more and more paramount. :cool:

Kirkmedia
Oct 30, 2007, 09:48 AM
Even more importantly than the numbers is the discussion in the general population. It really feels like when Windows XP came out.

XP was a time when a lot of people really got excited about a new OS and helped to really drive Microsoft up to this point.

With the failure of vista, Leopard is really starting to get the interest of the blogosphere and the general population.


I'm a total Mac Fanboy, but even I'm not that diluted to think Vista is a failure. MS just reported hugh profits, in part do to substantial Vista sales.

~Shard~
Oct 30, 2007, 09:51 AM
I'm a total Mac Fanboy, but even I'm not that diluted to think Vista is a failure. MS just reported hugh profits, in part do to substantial Vista sales.

Yeah, it also helps when you have 92% of the customer base as well... ;) I wouldn't call Vista a failure either, but I'm sure many poeple bought it under the assumption that it would be much better than it turned out to be. When MS themselves starts offering "downgrades" from Vista to XP, you know there are issues... :p ;) :cool:

guzhogi
Oct 30, 2007, 09:51 AM
Good job Apple. Hopefully, 3rd party apps will be written soon to take advantage of all the new features.

I work in an elementary school as their techie and the district's planning to upgrade teacher computers if/when they need to have their hard drive wiped. As for non-teacher computers, I think the plan is to upgrade those after we get rid of all our PPC computers. When that is, I don't know. Probably when 10.6 (or whatever the next major release is) comes out. On the plus side, the district's getting me and all the other techs new MacBook Pros. Woo-hoo! All the district's techs are going to have a training session next week to get them, zero out the hard drives, install Leopard & whatever other apps we need. Only thing that concerns me is that the techs got new MacBooks last year so why do we need new MacBook Pros? That $$ could have gone to buy new student computers. We have a bunch of G3 iMacs that are on their last legs that really need to be replaced. Plus, the district wide techs don't support those anymore. But that's for another thread.

Yay Apple! Here's to another several million!

SvenSvenson
Oct 30, 2007, 09:54 AM
Has anyone tried making a clone of there Time Machine back up yet? So far it has failed with Finder, Carbon Copy Cloner and Super Duper.

<snip>

If anyone knows how to let me know :)

I suspect that the above programs (except Finder) don't like the hard links that TM uses for directories. I believe that this is a new feature in 10.5 and that those programs end up chasing their own tails trying to resolve them.

Finder may just not let you mess with a TM backup.

Steve

davebarnes
Oct 30, 2007, 09:58 AM
So how many copies of Vista have been sold in two days? A month? So far? Just curious.

Buried in Microsoft's latest earnings report was: 9.3 million per month during the most recent quarter.

EagerDragon
Oct 30, 2007, 10:00 AM
Well, as far as the blue screen issue, you should check out this (http://daringfireball.net/2007/10/blue_in_the_face) article. It is not Apples fault but APE, which is a non sanctioned piece of software.

[edit] the article has been updated to point out that some reports of the blue screen issue didn't involve ape. Still an interesting read.

Umm, that reminds me of all the Bricked phones due to cracking and installation of non-sanctioned software.

At least this is a minor form of brink by APE and hopefuly people are carefull with what they install "in their lean, mean Leopard Machine".

Digitalclips
Oct 30, 2007, 10:00 AM
hey try turning off time machine, it might try wrighting a backup and that kills the clone?

I did that thanks ... still no dice. Now I am trying to see if I can dupe TM back up with Tiger booted.

elppa
Oct 30, 2007, 10:00 AM
Vista is in no means a failure. Apple has 8% market share which means in the coming few years most all of 92% computers will have Vista installed. How? It comes pre-installed by the manufacturers.

A valid point, many manufacturers will load Windows on there machines. They still have to sell those machines to customers though. Whilst a number of large companies will but them, fewer consumers (particularly those looking for a laptop) are interested.

I wonder how many of those 2 million didn't feel positive when their installation DVD didn't work

The DVD is scanned to check for faults, so surely that is a good thing. AT least they get a chance to replace the installation disk, leaving their files and disks untouched.

Unlike other OSs where is ploughs on with the installation regardless of whether the installation disk is in good working order.

or the installation finished and all they were left with was a blue screen?

It would be interesting to see Leopards opening night vs Vistas opening night. From what I heard no-one queued for Vista (that could be wrong).

As had been pointed out, this affects the small proportion of users using APE.

Digitalclips
Oct 30, 2007, 10:02 AM
I suspect that the above programs (except Finder) don't like the hard links that TM uses for directories. I believe that this is a new feature in 10.5 and that those programs end up chasing their own tails trying to resolve them.

Finder may just not let you mess with a TM backup.

Steve

About to attach TM drive and a target to a Tiger boot ... this might not get around this issue ... but I will soon know.

darthraige
Oct 30, 2007, 10:03 AM
More the reason to release a new MacPro and have two million people buy that God-Like Machine. lol

EagerDragon
Oct 30, 2007, 10:03 AM
I wonder how long it took Vista to reach 2 mil units?
M$ does counts machines sold with Vista Install in that number.

guzhogi
Oct 30, 2007, 10:05 AM
All this talk of Time Machine makes me wonder how much of a difference ZFS would have made. However, if/when Apple does decide to go w/ ZFS or another file system, I worry about people having to wipe out their hard drives and reinstall everything. While hard drives are cheap, current hard drives are so big already, people will have to spend a bit to back everything up. Plus, think about those companies w/ huge RAIDs or whatever.

I wonder how long it took Vista to reach 2 mil units?
M$ does counts machines sold with Vista Install in that number.

Probably not long since Windows PCs have 90%+ marketshare so when Vista came preinstalled, that's a lot of copies.

EagerDragon
Oct 30, 2007, 10:08 AM
A valid point, many manufacturers will load Windows on there machines. They still have to sell those machines to customers though. Whilst a number of large companies will but them, fewer consumers (particularly those looking for a laptop) are interested.



The DVD is scanned to check for faults, so surely that is a good thing. AT least they get a chance to replace the installation disk, leaving their files and disks untouched.

Unlike other OSs where is ploughs on with the installation regardless of whether the installation disk is in good working order.



It would be interesting to see Leopards opening night vs Vistas opening night. From what I heard no-one queued for Vista (that could be wrong).

As had been pointed out, this affects the small proportion of users using APE.

About the Vista queue, that depended on the store, some saw none and some had like 8 people in line, LOL.

Not all consumers are savy, so they will take the machine with Vista installed. Those that are in the know, insist on machines with XP instead. Manufactorers are complying with those requests after M$ gave in and allowed them to sell XP.

Kirkmedia
Oct 30, 2007, 10:08 AM
Yeah, it also helps when you have 92% of the customer base as well... ;) I wouldn't call Vista a failure either, but I'm sure many poeple bought it under the assumption that it would be much better than it turned out to be. When MS themselves starts offering "downgrades" from Vista to XP, you know there are issues... :p ;) :cool:

I hear you, but they're still making a ton of money:) Let's see what the future holds. In the mean time, let us all bask in the glory of hugh Leopard sales!!

jaw04005
Oct 30, 2007, 10:09 AM
So how many copies of Vista have been sold in two days? A month? So far? Just curious. Comparing the two should give a good indication of how well Mac OS X does over Vista, and which OS actually adds features users will use and use effectively.

Vista sales ...

"Microsoft had previously said that it had shipped 20 million copies of Vista in its first month and 40 million copies of Vista in the first 100 days."

From Paul Thurrott's SuperSite blog
—http://community.winsupersite.com/blogs/paul/default.aspx

"According to Microsoft, the 20 million Vista copies sold include licenses sold to PC makers, copies of retail full and upgrade versions sold to retailers, and upgrades ordered through the Vista Express Upgrade program between January 30 and February 28. By comparison, Microsoft sold less than half that number of XP licenses in its first 30 days of availability and announced in January 2002 that it had sold 17 million copies of XP in its first 60 days of availability."

http://www.windowsitpro.com/articles/index.cfm?articleid=95578&cpage=4
—Windows IT Pro

darthraige
Oct 30, 2007, 10:10 AM
I wonder how long it took Vista to reach 2 mil units?
M$ does counts machines sold with Vista Install in that number.

Did a little poking around. lol

Back in mid-May Microsoft indicated that it had managed to sell 40 million copies of Microsoft Windows Vista OS in the first 100 days after the company released its long-awaited software for consumers.

And Jaw04005 beat me to it. lol ^^

jholzner
Oct 30, 2007, 10:10 AM
The DVD is scanned to check for faults, so surely that is a good thing. AT least they get a chance to replace the installation disk, leaving their files and disks untouched.

Unlike other OSs where is ploughs on with the installation regardless of whether the installation disk is in good working order.


That's true but you can just skip that step. It takes a long time for it to scan the entire DVD. I let it do it because I'd rather be save than sorry but I bet a lot of people just skipped that option. Not that it's anyones fault but their own.

minik
Oct 30, 2007, 10:11 AM
Well, as far as the blue screen issue, you should check out this (http://daringfireball.net/2007/10/blue_in_the_face) article. It is not Apples fault but APE, which is a non sanctioned piece of software.

[edit] the article has been updated to point out that some reports of the blue screen issue didn't involve ape. Still an interesting read.

I did get a 'blue screen' on my Mac Pro by choosing the upgrade method, however it went to normal in a minute later. No APE or any other mod before the upgrade.

Anyway, I stood in-line for Panther, Tiger, and Leopard. The Leopard line was overwhelming. Since I have 3 Leopard-capable Macs at home, I picked up the family pack and a free Leopard T-shirt on the spot.

Couldn't be happier. I keep showing it to my colleagues.

~Shard~
Oct 30, 2007, 10:11 AM
I hear you, but they're still making a ton of money:) Let's see what the future holds. In the mean time, let us all bask in the glory of hugh Leopard sales!!

Oh yes, they're making stupid gobs of money, no question there... ;)

Yateball
Oct 30, 2007, 10:11 AM
I expected the numbers to be high but certainly did not expect them to be that high. Leopard is great though so it's not too surprising.

Although reviews have been almost all positive... the visual tweaks are taking a lot of heat. I personally like all of them. The blue orbs aren't THAT hard to see, and the reflective dock looks really, really good.

Just varies by opinion I suppose.

Anyway, good for apple!

ucfgrad93
Oct 30, 2007, 10:11 AM
Wow, this is great news for Apple. I'll probably get a copy next month.

MacVault
Oct 30, 2007, 10:12 AM
Wow! Great! Now just imagine how many billions Apple would have sold if Leopard had launched with support for other x86 hardware!

Take That, Apple! :mad:

LaDirection
Oct 30, 2007, 10:13 AM
I think the number is going to grow beyond the wildest dreams of all.

The tide is really turning.

I just spent some time on PC blogs and one was 90% full of PC users who were switching or had switched to OS X and in particular Leopard has them wowed. I include one typical entry from such a PC blog here
From Another Blog on a PC site: The article is lame but read the blog at bottom of the page! http://informationweek.com/blog/main...html#community
commented on Oct 30, 2007 5:56:03 AM
"I'm an MSc. in Computer Science working professionally with software development on Windows platforms for 12 years. Last year I realized seeing a friends iMac with Intel processor that, hey, this good looking machine is a PC. Great, I can buy it and run Windows on it. Would be fun to try out Mac OS also (which I have not even turned to look at before) for private stuff like photos, music and film which it said to be good at.

After 3 months I do NOT have the strength to log into Windows. It sucks, for real! I have defended Windows and loved it for 12 professional years, I know it inside out. I gave it all up in 3 months. Really! In comparison it really is worse in most aspects. And as Mac OS X has a UNIX core there is no problem to get under the hood like everyone seem to think, I would say it is the other way around. Anyway, most people do NOT want to get under the hood. You should not HAVE to get under the hood to perform basic stuff which you sometimes need to do in Windows.

Let's leave deep IT and look at stuff most people at home and at work use. I want even go into the Mac OS X built in Movie/photo/music stuff, it IS awsome. Let's look at the Office suit. I know of no-one during my professional years who wouldn't kill for beeing able to use a better word processor than Microsoft Word. Why not try out iWork Pages? The document looks better before you even start writing, and you can actually do real page layouts and typograph stuff (and it is cheaper). As well as open and save in .doc format AS WELL as .pdf, .rtf. Ever used Powerpoint? Check out iWork Keynote. You almost don't believe your eyes! And Powerpoint is what we sit and use in all offices all over the world creating crappy looking presentations paying more!

After starting using Mac OS X and the bundled software I CAN NOT believe that the world is still using Windows. The main reason I think, like for me, is that we do not know that there is an alternative. We think Macs are for "media" guys. I cannot think of one single thing I miss from Windows and that I think does something better than can be found in Mac OS X. New Leopard looks fantastic with real new groundbreaking feaures for everyday computer users which makes you more productive than ever.

I bought Apple shares for every penny I had to spare last summer. The tides must be turning now, I can hear it everywhere, I can see it everywhere. Why don't you join the movement?"

Windows is still necessary for business environement, professional 3-D workstations and gamers because there are no Mac equivalent for most of their softwares.

However 90% of the people buying computers for their homes (casual users) have no reasons NOT to get a Mac. It's no surprise that over 50% of Mac users are over 50 years old!

jaw04005
Oct 30, 2007, 10:13 AM
And Jaw04005 beat me to it. lol ^^

Just barely, darthraige. :) As you can see from the Vista sales figures, we're not going to take over the world anytime soon. :)

Wow! Great! Now just imagine how many billions Apple would have sold if Leopard had launched with support for other x86 hardware!

Take That, Apple! :mad:

And once again, Apple is HARDWARE company. We tried this remember? Mid-90's? Apple almost went bankrupt.

darthraige
Oct 30, 2007, 10:13 AM
Wow! Great! Now just imagine how many billions Apple would have sold if Leopard had launched with support for other x86 hardware!

Take That, Apple! :mad:

Now, getting Leopard with Hardware purchase, does that count as a sold Leopard? So if I wait for the new MacPro and get Leopard pre-installed on it, does that count as 1 bought Leopard?

darthraige
Oct 30, 2007, 10:15 AM
Just barely, darthraige. :) As you can see from the Vista sales figures, we're not going to take over the world anytime soon. :)

We probably both hit "submit" at the same time. haha. I came across too many articles and tried picking the best one. lol

Yateball
Oct 30, 2007, 10:15 AM
Now, getting Leopard with Hardware purchase, does that count as a sold Leopard? So if I wait for the new MacPro and get Leopard pre-installed on it, does that count as 1 bought Leopard?

Good question.... but probably not

EagerDragon
Oct 30, 2007, 10:15 AM
Probably not long since Windows PCs have 90%+ marketshare so when Vista came preinstalled, that's a lot of copies.

There was an article that anounced that Vista sold 2 mil units in the first 4 months or so and that included the copies that were installed from the manaufactorers.

However the manufactorers are also shipping a lot of XP to savy consumers and to businesses that do not yet want to adopt a new OS, some take 2 1/2 years to switch to a new OS.

You have to measure it against the install base, 5 mill out of 210 mil installed XP base is nothing. On the other hand, 2 mil out of 20 mil Macs is a heck of a lot more.

I plan to live long enough to see Apple reach 51% of the market, but then again I plan to live to 300.

LaDirection
Oct 30, 2007, 10:15 AM
Wow! Great! Now just imagine how many billions Apple would have sold if Leopard had launched with support for other x86 hardware!

Take That, Apple! :mad:

Yes! and just imagine how many people would run it on a cheap low end dell instead of a $2,000+ iMac, thus forcing Apple, who's hardware-based business rakes in more gross margin from computers than ANY other PC vendor while selling great softwares like Final Cut and iLife at ridiculous prices to sell MORE hardware, into bankcrupcy.

Great plan, Sherlock!

jaw04005
Oct 30, 2007, 10:16 AM
Now, getting Leopard with Hardware purchase, does that count as a sold Leopard? So if I wait for the new MacPro and get Leopard pre-installed on it, does that count as 1 bought Leopard?

Yes. It counts. All pre-installed, upgrades, maintenance agreements, etc count towards the officially tally.

hscottm
Oct 30, 2007, 10:17 AM
I poked around for any available data on Vista retail sales (because thats a better sign of "demand" than the pre-installed copies that Dell et al force on customers).

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9011360

interesting note (source is NPD) is that it says vista sales significantly lag XP sales (by 60%!). Thus the 2M for Leopard in a weekend (versus ars technica's estimate of 2M Tiger in a month suggests a much stronger consumer demand for OS X versus Windows.

Would like to find actual sales numbers, not percentages.

~Shard~
Oct 30, 2007, 10:18 AM
We probably both hit "submit" at the same time. haha. I came across too many articles and tried picking the best one. lol

Good question.... but probably not

Actually I'm pretty sure it does. It comes down to accounting, inventory and line items. For every sale, not only is a Mac being sold but a licensed copy of Leopard, iLife, etc. Each item, hardware or software, is reflected as its own line item and as such, a sale is recorded for each of those items for each purchase made.

EagerDragon
Oct 30, 2007, 10:19 AM
Now, getting Leopard with Hardware purchase, does that count as a sold Leopard? So if I wait for the new MacPro and get Leopard pre-installed on it, does that count as 1 bought Leopard?

I do not think Apple sold that large of a number of Macs in just a weekend. So even if they were counting it, the Macs sold in that weekend are probably a lot less than 200,000 or 1/10 of the OS total units sold.

M$ counts the ones that are installed in the systems so I do not see why Apple would not.

~Shard~
Oct 30, 2007, 10:21 AM
I do not think Apple sold that large of a number of Macs in just a weekend. So even if they were counting it, the Macs sold in that weekend are probably a lot less than 200,000 or 1/10 of the OS total units sold.

That's my thinking as well. Although Apple counts new machine sales as well in the Leopard tally, how many new Macs were actually sold during those first 2 days? Probably not enough to skew this figure I'm thinking....

jaw04005
Oct 30, 2007, 10:22 AM
I poked around for any available data on Vista retail sales (because thats a better sign of "demand" than the pre-installed copies that Dell et al force on customers).

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9011360

Well, then Apple would have to remove upgrades, pre-installed, developer and maintenance agreement copies from its final tally also.

The change from XP to Vista, was that the majority of Vista sales were with new machines (partly because of the pent-up demand for new computers thanks to Vista's delay and more stringent system requirements).

Unlike Mac users, Windows users tend to get new operating systems with system purchases. Mac users tend to purchase more upgrades (proportionately as to user base since Apple releases upgrades on a more regular basis than Microsoft). The only Microsoft operating system that can even compare to a new Mac OS X version launch (hype, publicity, etc) was Windows 95.

EagerDragon
Oct 30, 2007, 10:23 AM
Windows sold 20 mill in the first month (including the ones in computers).
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2007/mar07/03-26VistaDebut.mspx

Still nothing compared to their XP installed base.

Orng
Oct 30, 2007, 10:24 AM
About to attach TM drive and a target to a Tiger boot ... this might not get around this issue ... but I will soon know.

Why don't you plug in the second hard drive, then look in the first hard drive... find a folder called backup.backupdb (or something like that) then just drag and drop it to the second drive?

It may or may not work exactly like a time machine backup but at least you can browse your files in there.

bignumbers
Oct 30, 2007, 10:27 AM
One phrase in Apple's announcement that's been lost in discussion:

(or delivered in the case of maintenance agreements)

I doubt they have a million maintenance agreements but they've been pushing them lately. In August we wanted to buy ten MacPro's. I called our Apple rep and said we wanted to buy them now, but didn't want to pay $129 for Leopard upgrades in two months (otherwise we'd just wait until October). They wanted the business now, certainly before their end-of-year (Sept. 30).

So they added an OS X Maintenance Agreement to the order (about $1000 for ten machines), and reduced the hardware costs by the same amount, for a net free maintenance agreement. So we got our Macs fast, and we get free OS X upgrades for 36 months. And Apple gets to count that as ten "sales" on day one, even though we probably won't install it for a while until the dust settles.

And as a bonus, assuming Apple releases another upgrade within 36 months, we'll get that one for free too. And I'll bet Apple will count that as a sale then!

Given how easy this happened, I'll bet Apple was doing a lot of this to prevent folks from holding off large hardware orders.

MacVault
Oct 30, 2007, 10:30 AM
And once again, Apple is HARDWARE company. We tried this remember? Mid-90's? Apple almost went bankrupt.

If Apple is indeed a HARDWARE company, and they lock their OS to their hardware only, then they need to satisfy all ends of the hardware market and start making some kick-@ss hardware to fill the GAPING HOLES left in their product lines - such as in the pro-sumer/mini tower area, and the enterprise area.

Yateball
Oct 30, 2007, 10:31 AM
Actually I'm pretty sure it does. It comes down to accounting, inventory and line items. For every sale, not only is a Mac being sold but a licensed copy of Leopard, iLife, etc. Each item, hardware or software, is reflected as its own line item and as such, a sale is recorded for each of those items for each purchase made.

Good point, but at the same time wouldn't the sales of mac's themselves be a separate entity than the sales of the retail copies of leopard?

I guess it depends on what the 2 million means.... whether it's amount of leopard licenses used up, or retail leopards gone off the shelves.

GenesisST
Oct 30, 2007, 10:36 AM
I think the number is going to grow beyond the wildest dreams of all.

The tide is really turning.

I just spent some time on PC blogs and one was 90% full of PC users who were switching or had switched to OS X and in particular Leopard has them wowed. I include one typical entry from such a PC blog here
From Another Blog on a PC site: The article is lame but read the blog at bottom of the page! http://informationweek.com/blog/main...html#community
commented on Oct 30, 2007 5:56:03 AM
"I'm an MSc. in Computer Science working professionally with software development on Windows platforms for 12 years. Last year I realized seeing a friends iMac with Intel processor that, hey, this good looking machine is a PC. Great, I can buy it and run Windows on it. Would be fun to try out Mac OS also (which I have not even turned to look at before) for private stuff like photos, music and film which it said to be good at.

After 3 months I do NOT have the strength to log into Windows. It sucks, for real! I have defended Windows and loved it for 12 professional years, I know it inside out. I gave it all up in 3 months. Really! In comparison it really is worse in most aspects. And as Mac OS X has a UNIX core there is no problem to get under the hood like everyone seem to think, I would say it is the other way around. Anyway, most people do NOT want to get under the hood. You should not HAVE to get under the hood to perform basic stuff which you sometimes need to do in Windows.

Let's leave deep IT and look at stuff most people at home and at work use. I want even go into the Mac OS X built in Movie/photo/music stuff, it IS awsome. Let's look at the Office suit. I know of no-one during my professional years who wouldn't kill for beeing able to use a better word processor than Microsoft Word. Why not try out iWork Pages? The document looks better before you even start writing, and you can actually do real page layouts and typograph stuff (and it is cheaper). As well as open and save in .doc format AS WELL as .pdf, .rtf. Ever used Powerpoint? Check out iWork Keynote. You almost don't believe your eyes! And Powerpoint is what we sit and use in all offices all over the world creating crappy looking presentations paying more!

After starting using Mac OS X and the bundled software I CAN NOT believe that the world is still using Windows. The main reason I think, like for me, is that we do not know that there is an alternative. We think Macs are for "media" guys. I cannot think of one single thing I miss from Windows and that I think does something better than can be found in Mac OS X. New Leopard looks fantastic with real new groundbreaking feaures for everyday computer users which makes you more productive than ever.

I bought Apple shares for every penny I had to spare last summer. The tides must be turning now, I can hear it everywhere, I can see it everywhere. Why don't you join the movement?"

Wow, that sounds exactly like me (switched in Jan/2006). I only use Windows for three reasons (in that order):

1) Parallels/MS Money 2002: only because I'm too lazy to manually move my 10 years of data to Quicken. I'm thinking of starting a fresh financial data using Quicken 2006.

2) BootCamp/Adobe Audition: I don't want to spend 400$ to move to Logic Express. Maybe one day, but not now

3) BootCamp/Games: my wife plays some adventure games sometimes. I play on XBOX 360, so I don't care for PC/Mac games anymore.

My main reason for switching: the birth of my son and iPhoto and iMovie for keeping memories. I tried (and paid) for so many crappy application on the PC. Never looked back with those two apps. But truth be told, it's no way the fault of the OS in this case.

Apple should make iLife for Windows. It may be a good advertisement for the Mac!

Have to work a bit now and stop reading forums... :p

koobcamuk
Oct 30, 2007, 10:36 AM
I would alsao be interested is seeing this stat. Obviously more copies have been sold due to the larger Mac user base, but on a percentage basis, what % of Mac users bought Tiger upon its release versus what % of users have now bought Leopard upon its release?

Sounds like a job for Doctor Q! ;) :D

Seems no one else cares about this yet.

zombitronic
Oct 30, 2007, 10:37 AM
I wonder how many copies were sold with the purchase of a new Mac.

There's a lot of comparison of Vista sales to Leopard sales. While this is an unfair comparison due to overall PC market share, a fair comparison would be the overall percentage of user satisfaction of Vista vs. Leopard. With the amount of PCs offering preinstalls of XP or a flavor of Linux increasing, the amount of users downgrading to XP themselves, and the word-of-mouth disappointment of Vista circulating through the tech scene, these (assumed/estimated) percentages speak loudly.

Dagless
Oct 30, 2007, 10:38 AM
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/10/30/leopard-weekend-sales-far-outpaced-tiger-at-2-million

Ars says it took a month to sell 2 million of Tiger

arn

Wow, I thought Tiger was a bigger step from it's predecessor compared to Leopard.
Still it's good see! It's a great OS and leaps ahead of Vista (formatted my Vista and back on XP). Go Apple :) Go AAPL

jaw04005
Oct 30, 2007, 10:39 AM
Still nothing compared to their XP installed base.

Vista is the fastest growing operating system in Microsoft's history. However, Vista as of September only accounts for roughly 8 1/2 percent of Microsoft's total market share of 86.7 percent. In this same data set, Apple (both PowerPC and Mactel) accounts for 6.61 percent compared to Vista's 7.38 percent.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/

"Microsoft Corp. saying Thursday that it has now shipped 88 million copies of the operating system, almost double the number of copies of XP in the same amount of time at its launch."

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,138983-pg,1/article.html

Digitalclips
Oct 30, 2007, 10:43 AM
Why don't you plug in the second hard drive, then look in the first hard drive... find a folder called backup.backupdb (or something like that) then just drag and drop it to the second drive?

It may or may not work exactly like a time machine backup but at least you can browse your files in there.

I will try all and everything lol. It has now become a project and a half! My hope was an identical clone in every way so I could do experiments on airdisk with one and if it got messed up I still had a working TM. This all because the initial backup on TM takes about 10 hours on my Dual G5 so trying to avoid having to do that twice.

So far booting to a Tiger drive is allowing the clone to happen (Leo boot fails very soon). I don't know yet if TM will like what it sees when it has finished.

I think we need 'Carbon Copy Time Machine' from the guy that created CCC.

koobcamuk
Oct 30, 2007, 10:45 AM
Wow, I thought Tiger was a bigger step from it's predecessor compared to Leopard.
Still it's good see! It's a great OS and leaps ahead of Vista (formatted my Vista and back on XP). Go Apple :) Go AAPL

Think about it. There are millions more Mac users now compared to back then. We need to see percentages of total users - not just numbers sold.

cmendill
Oct 30, 2007, 10:48 AM
After the initial leopard euphoria wears off there will be tons more users adding their gripes to Apple's discussion page:

http://discussions.apple.com/category.jspa?categoryID=235

If it hasn't worn off yet, go there and read about all the horrible problems people are having.

I can only speak to the Panther->Tiger transition, but that one went much more smoothly than this.

~Shard~
Oct 30, 2007, 10:51 AM
Good point, but at the same time wouldn't the sales of mac's themselves be a separate entity than the sales of the retail copies of leopard?

Yes, you are correct. A Mac sale would no doubt constitute the sale of a Mac, a licensed copy of Leopard, a licensed copy of iLife, perhaps an Apple keyboard and/or Mighty Mouse, etc. Each of these items are distinct and a "sale" would be recorded for each of them for accounting, inventory, tracking, etc. purposes.

I guess it depends on what the 2 million means.... whether it's amount of leopard licenses used up, or retail leopards gone off the shelves.

Not necessarily gone off the shleves - users can order Leopard online as well (some orders may be backordered as well), all which count as a sale.

tcoleman
Oct 30, 2007, 10:54 AM
Has anyone tried making a clone of there Time Machine back up yet? So far it has failed with Finder, Carbon Copy Cloner and Super Duper.


The problem wouldn't be something to do with the hard-linked directories, would it?

EagerDragon
Oct 30, 2007, 10:56 AM
Store still open, so I guess no MacBooks today.

~Shard~
Oct 30, 2007, 10:57 AM
Seems no one else cares about this yet.

And yet it would be a more meaningful, relevant statistic to know in my opinion... ;) :cool:

uNext
Oct 30, 2007, 10:59 AM
As a shareholder this is wonderful news for this quarter earnings. But the no cash credit only iphone deal will have some type of effect on gross earnings. But im happy apple just keeps on rocking and enlarging my pockets.

GO BUY BUY BUY

~Shard~
Oct 30, 2007, 10:59 AM
Store still open, so I guess no MacBooks today.

Wrong thread my friend, this is the Leopard thread, not the new MacBook thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=377258). :p ;) :D

CashGap
Oct 30, 2007, 11:01 AM
If Apple is indeed a HARDWARE company, and they lock their OS to their hardware only, then they need to satisfy all ends of the hardware market and start making some kick-@ss hardware to fill the GAPING HOLES left in their product lines - such as in the pro-sumer/mini tower area, and the enterprise area.

Or not. They need to decide if those niches (aka "gaping holes") are profitable niches or quicksand.

So far... they have a history of making good calls on those decisions, so if they don't decide to produce the machine that "everybody" (aka people on Mac boards) knows would be successful, that tells us something.

Windows is still necessary for business environement, professional 3-D workstations and gamers because there are no Mac equivalent for most of their softwares.

Actually it isn't at all necessary for a business environment, but I get your point. People BELIEVE it is necessary, so that has the same impact.

ChrisA
Oct 30, 2007, 11:03 AM
I will try all and everything lol. It has now become a project and a half! My hope was an identical clone in every way so I could do experiments on airdisk with one and if it got messed up I still had a working TM. This all because the initial backup on TM takes about 10 hours on my Dual G5 so trying to avoid having to do that twice.

Have you tried the most obvious thing:
Copy the files using "sudo cp -a /volumes/foo /volumes/bar"
Of course replace "foo bar" with whatever is correct on your system.
You don't even have to know what is "correct on your system" if you drag an icon in to the terminal the fullpach to the icon type typed in for you

jellomizer
Oct 30, 2007, 11:05 AM
1. There was almost a 2 year gap from Tiger to Leapod.
2. When Tiger was released there was not mention of Intel Based Macs.
3. The Intel Based Macs got people to buy Macs in droves because they can Run Windows and Mac apps so there was less fear of getting stuck with a "Useless" OS.
4. Windows Vista was expeced to be released any time soon when Tiger was released, and it was expected to be a major improvement that would trounce OS X. After its release there was a general disapointment (after the inital Paid critics gave its good marks)
5. The Zune Flop (Showing people that Microsoft doesn't always dominate and Apple can out preform them, giving Apple more of an Aura around it)
6. iPhone Buzz it got a lot of people into Apple stores to see what is available.
7. iTunes TV and Movies making macs a major push towards online content.
8. I'm a Mac and I'm a PC adds. very good adds that get peoples attention and teaches them that Macs are more flexible then they origionally thought.
9. Strong track record with its popularity still no major security breaches.
10. College student acceptance. It is now the cool system to have.

With its popularity more people will want a new version of the OS as well the long wait makes them really wanting a new version of the OS. 10.3 -> 10.4 only some minor changes and only a year old. 10.4 -> 10.5 About 2 years earned its stripes but time to move on.

EagerDragon
Oct 30, 2007, 11:10 AM
After the initial leopard euphoria wears off there will be tons more users adding their gripes to Apple's discussion page:

http://discussions.apple.com/category.jspa?categoryID=235

If it hasn't worn off yet, go there and read about all the horrible problems people are having.

I can only speak to the Panther->Tiger transition, but that one went much more smoothly than this.

I went there and I really see very few problems to speak of. same rehash of the same issues where people installed APE, some having problems with the actual CD, etc. Most people have no issues, it is the vocal minority making all the noise, just like the iBricks taking over all the forms of media.

It is not perfect but a lot less troubles than in Vista.

jaw04005
Oct 30, 2007, 11:12 AM
Think about it. There are millions more Mac users now compared to back then. We need to see percentages of total users - not just numbers sold.

ArsTechnica reports that there were roughly 22 million Mac users worldwide as of March 2007 (end of Q1). Apple sold roughly 1 million in Q2, 1.7 million in Q3, 2 million in Q4. Therefore, let's say there are currently roughly 26 million Mac users worldwide.

Leopard first weekend sales totaled 2 million. Therefore, 7.6 percent of Mac owners are currently Leopard users.

In early 2006, Apple reported that they have roughly 15 million Mac OS X users worldwide. Therefore, let's assume at Tiger's launch (April 05) there were roughly 13 million Mac users worldwide.

So, 2 million in one month for Tiger, or around 15 percent total base by the end of Tiger's launch month.

I'm also going to assume that Leopard maintains 1/3 of it's launch pace per weekend, so 667,000 copies each additional weekend—4 million total copies sold by the end of its launch month. Therefore, around 15 percent total base by the end of Leopard's launch month.

Quillz
Oct 30, 2007, 11:15 AM
Even more importantly than the numbers is the discussion in the general population. It really feels like when Windows XP came out.

XP was a time when a lot of people really got excited about a new OS and helped to really drive Microsoft up to this point.

With the failure of vista, Leopard is really starting to get the interest of the blogosphere and the general population.
You obviously have some skewed definition of "failure" if you think Vista is one.

I went there and I really see very few problems to speak of. same rehash of the same issues where people installed APE, some having problems with the actual CD, etc. Most people have no issues, it is the vocal minority making all the noise, just like the iBricks taking over all the forms of media.

It is not perfect but a lot less troubles than in Vista.
Strange, it's the vocal minority making all the noise about Vista's problems, too, yet everyone is quick to label it a "failure" because of this.

vassillios
Oct 30, 2007, 11:15 AM
Well, as far as the blue screen issue, you should check out this (http://daringfireball.net/2007/10/blue_in_the_face) article. It is not Apples fault but APE, which is a non sanctioned piece of software.

[edit] the article has been updated to point out that some reports of the blue screen issue didn't involve ape. Still an interesting read.

exactly! There are a lot of users out there that use system hacks. I remember seeing one user in a forum once who posted a screen shot of their preferences....they had something like 13 system hacks!

There is no way that apple would have shipped installation discs that would cause problems. I know that a lot of people will say "I don't have system hacks", but the truth is that most of them don't realize they are installing system hacks..just some kind of app.

Quillz
Oct 30, 2007, 11:17 AM
Or not. They need to decide if those niches (aka "gaping holes") are profitable niches or quicksand.

So far... they have a history of making good calls on those decisions, so if they don't decide to produce the machine that "everybody" (aka people on Mac boards) knows would be successful, that tells us something.



Actually it isn't at all necessary for a business environment, but I get your point. People BELIEVE it is necessary, so that has the same impact.
Believe what you want, but wake me up when businesses around the world stop using Exchange servers that only work with Windows (sure, you get some access on a Mac, but it's hardly the same.)

digitalbiker
Oct 30, 2007, 11:22 AM
Anyone else experiencing long boot times with Leopard? I have a Mac Pro that used to boot in less than a minute under Tiger.

Since the upgrade to Leopard, my system hangs for 40 seconds on a blank screen (not even Apple Logo) and then boots like normal in less than a minute. I performed the upgrade rather than the erase and install method. I had installed beta versions of Leopard previously on another HD using the erase and install method and never had a boot time issue.

Weird and annoying!

Quillz
Oct 30, 2007, 11:25 AM
It would be interesting to see Leopards opening night vs Vistas opening night. From what I heard no-one queued for Vista (that could be wrong).

This is because Windows users are nerdy business people who have better, more important things to do than camp out for days on end for an OS release that will only appeal to young, hip, trendy people.

sunfast
Oct 30, 2007, 11:26 AM
There certainly is a buzz about Leopard and all the reviews I've read, including mainstream ones such as the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7066995.stm) and the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2007/oct/26/leopardreview), seem to be very positive.

I can't install it until my massively overdue new harddrive arrives. Getting so impatient!

Rhosfelt
Oct 30, 2007, 11:29 AM
Anyone else experiencing long boot times with Leopard? I have a Mac Pro that used to boot in less than a minute under Tiger.

Since the upgrade to Leopard, my system hangs for 40 seconds on a blank screen (not even Apple Logo) and then boots like normal in less than a minute. I performed the upgrade rather than the erase and install method. I had installed beta versions of Leopard previously on another HD using the erase and install method and never had a boot time issue.

Weird and annoying!

My boot times on both of my machines are just about halved. However I did an erase and install on both. I guess that might be your problem..

Lancetx
Oct 30, 2007, 11:30 AM
I went there and I really see very few problems to speak of. same rehash of the same issues where people installed APE, some having problems with the actual CD, etc. Most people have no issues, it is the vocal minority making all the noise, just like the iBricks taking over all the forms of media.

It is not perfect but a lot less troubles than in Vista.

I couldn't agree more. Leopard went a lot smoother for me than past Mac OS X upgrades have in my experience.

Nearly everyone I've known that has attempted upgrading an existing PC from XP to Vista has had significant issues, or has ended up downgrading their new PC from Vista to XP due to problems.

In the end, it's not just simply a coincedence that Microsoft still sells Windows XP despite Vista being out there. However, you definitely won't see that it's necessary for Apple to continue to sell Tiger now that Leopard is out.

jacobhb
Oct 30, 2007, 11:31 AM
Anyone else experiencing long boot times with Leopard? I have a Mac Pro that used to boot in less than a minute under Tiger.

Do you have another OS on one of the other HDs in you macPro? I get this every now and then when my machine is searching for which drive to start from... the mac drive, the windows drive or the CD. I fixed it but just setting the boot drive.

bigandy
Oct 30, 2007, 11:31 AM
that's great news. :)

how did vista compare in it's first weekend? :rolleyes:

Digitalclips
Oct 30, 2007, 11:32 AM
The problem wouldn't be something to do with the hard-linked directories, would it?

More than likely. A TM drive clones no problem it seems if the two drives are attached to a Tiger Boot. Not quite finished so don't know if Leo will spot it is a clone. I bet it will though! :(

a456
Oct 30, 2007, 11:34 AM
that's great news. :)

how did vista compare in it's first weekend? :rolleyes:

See following thread for details of Vista sales:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=378309&highlight=deathmatch+10.5

EagerDragon
Oct 30, 2007, 11:34 AM
Believe what you want, but wake me up when businesses around the world stop using Exchange servers that only work with Windows (sure, you get some access on a Mac, but it's hardly the same.)

Sleep tight, Apple does not have its eyes yet on the corporate world, when they do, we will wake you with some soap, and a shaving kit. Mean time may want to roll the long bear in a backpack so it does not slow you down.

Corp wants pre-announcements and future direction 1-2 years ahead, until Apple is willing to do that (spill the beans), their eyes are elsewhere.

Digitalclips
Oct 30, 2007, 11:35 AM
Do you have another OS on one of the other HDs in you macPro? I get this every now and then when my machine is searching for which drive to start from... the mac drive, the windows drive or the CD. I fixed it but just setting the boot drive.

Sorry this is reply to who you replied to! Darn it...

Nope. I now have now converted the following:
iBook 1.33 G4 / Dual 2 GIG G5 / MacBook Intel First generation bottom of line / MacBook Pro top of the line (brand new)

All including ancient iBook are faster to boot, run faster and so far are all running flawlessly.

sigamy
Oct 30, 2007, 11:36 AM
Has someone in apple PR been reading SEO 101 and building web traffic with Press Releases? This is getting to be a bit much...

Here is the latest:
Apple announced today that someone, somewhere ate the 1,000,000,000,000 apple ever. CEO Steve Jobs said, "We've seen more and more people eating Apples over the past few years. With the success of the iPod, iPhone and the Mac, Apple is on everyone's mind and now in their mouth."

EagerDragon
Oct 30, 2007, 11:36 AM
This is because Windows users are nerdy business people who have better, more important things to do than camp out for days on end for an OS release that will only appeal to young, hip, trendy people.

They let you come out from under the bridge?

Steve Jobs=God
Oct 30, 2007, 11:37 AM
Apple cannot test their OS with every third party application. Then no new OS would ever come out. It's a rule of thumb, when you're doing such a big thing as an OS upgrade, many unseen things can happen so: 1. Always keep a backup, 2. Switch off ALL third party enhancements before the upgrade. You shouldn't blame Apple for mistakes made by consumers. As we already know the Blue Screen is because of Application Enhancer.

really? wow i must've been one of the lucky few that had Application Enhancer running during the upgrade and it still installed perfectly fine

Phil A.
Oct 30, 2007, 11:38 AM
Anyone else experiencing long boot times with Leopard? I have a Mac Pro that used to boot in less than a minute under Tiger.

Since the upgrade to Leopard, my system hangs for 40 seconds on a blank screen (not even Apple Logo) and then boots like normal in less than a minute. I performed the upgrade rather than the erase and install method. I had installed beta versions of Leopard previously on another HD using the erase and install method and never had a boot time issue.

Weird and annoying!

I've noticed a bit of a delay but it seems be caused by my USB external drives spinning up to speed and coming online (I have 4 of them that seem to come up in order). I never noticed this with Tiger, but that's not to say it wasn't the same :)

Digitalclips
Oct 30, 2007, 11:39 AM
This is because Windows users are nerdy business people who have better, more important things to do than camp out for days on end for an OS release that will only appeal to young, hip, trendy people.

ROFL ... Good one. In my experience they are mostly clueless and can't even add a mail account without hiring a 'tech'.

jpine
Oct 30, 2007, 11:39 AM
Well, as far as the blue screen issue, you should check out this (http://daringfireball.net/2007/10/blue_in_the_face) article. It is not Apples fault but APE, which is a non sanctioned piece of software.

[edit] the article has been updated to point out that some reports of the blue screen issue didn't involve ape. Still an interesting read.

Wow. I had version 1.5 on my comupter for the Alchemy TV to work properly. That was too close for comfort. Thanks!

thasan
Oct 30, 2007, 11:45 AM
I'm a total Mac Fanboy, but even I'm not that diluted to think Vista is a failure. MS just reported hugh profits, in part do to substantial Vista sales.

i am (WAS) a windoz fanboy. the "only" thing abt vista i like is the windows mail..and thats because of its spam filter...
other than that, vista is really pathetic... i saw my colleagues laptop running a brand new sony tz series laptop. the boot time was apalling :eek:
i dont know how many people are going to be happy with vista...:rolleyes:

trust me...im still using a vista machine now. and i have tried out tiger only for a day or so. that was enough to win me over. i cant wait to get a new MB

SiliconAddict
Oct 30, 2007, 11:53 AM
Glass is half full: OMG! Leopard is the best version of OS X yet! Everyone wants it! Its great!

Glass is half empty: Everyone want to get the heck off Tiger.

So are you guys full or empty? :p :D


ROFL ... Good one. In my experience they are mostly clueless and can't even add a mail account without hiring a 'tech'.

Whatever zealot. :rolleyes:

*sighs* I find it amazing how people can bitch about an OS and Id bet $10 most of you haven't used it for more then a month at most. Windows like any OS has a learning curve. The problem with most of you people is that you never tried to LEARN Windows and instead decided to crap all over it and call it sucky. I was the EXACT same way the first 4-6 months on OS X. I swear as god as my witness there were days I wanted to find Jobs and smash this damn laptop over his head in frustration. OS X CAN and does cause frustration, I've found Leopard to cause less of it though. Much less.

If you learn Windows, and not just learn where to find x or y feature in the Control Panel, it can easily be as good as OS X. But you need to know its quirks. You need to know where its faults are are and fill in the holes with the software equivalent of spackle. Windows can be a complete OS but you DO need a few third party apps to do it. You need to know how to tweak windows. That is what the IT pro is for. We know this crap backwards and forwards. Hell I use to support an office of Mac's running Panther. I was dropped into the place because we picked up a contract to do IT support and it included this one off office of about 30 Macs running Panther. Didn't have to go there often but I can tell you right now tha t there were quirks with OS X just as there are with any OS. I really wish the zealots would wrap this concept around their little egocentric brain. Windows doesn't suck any more then all OS's be it OS X, Windows, Linux, Amiga, Unix, BSD, DOS, OS/400, VAX all suck to a certain extent.

jholzner
Oct 30, 2007, 11:57 AM
really? wow i must've been one of the lucky few that had Application Enhancer running during the upgrade and it still installed perfectly fine

It only had problems with older versions:

But, as far as I can tell, there is no mystery involved. There is one and only one known cause for this problem: old versions of Unsanity’s Application Enhancer, a.k.a. APE. Versions 2.0.2 and 2.0.3 of APE are apparently inert but harmless on Leopard. But at least some, if not all, versions of APE preceding version 2.0.2 are incompatible, and will render the system unbootable if left in place during an upgrade. APE 2.0.2 was released in November 2006; 2.0.3 in March 2007.
(quoted from daringfireball)

cmendill
Oct 30, 2007, 11:58 AM
It is not perfect but a lot less troubles than in Vista.

Sure, but a lot more trouble than Tiger.
Tiger was better than Vista. Leopard should be compared to one thing and one thing only, and that is 10.4.10. A lot of things are better and a lot of things are worse.

koobcamuk
Oct 30, 2007, 11:59 AM
Glass is half full: OMG! Leopard is the best version of OS X yet! Everyone wants it! Its great!

Glass is half empty: Everyone want to get the heck off Tiger.

So are you guys full or empty?

What on earth are you on about?

Maccus Aurelius
Oct 30, 2007, 12:01 PM
This is because Windows users are nerdy business people who have better, more important things to do than camp out for days on end for an OS release that will only appeal to young, hip, trendy people.

And what of the nerdy youth that build Win-rigs to play PC games for hours on end? Surely they don't build any business acumen taking out virtual baddies.

ChrisA
Oct 30, 2007, 12:03 PM
This is because Windows users are nerdy business people who have better, more important things to do than camp out for days on end for an OS release that will only appeal to young, hip, trendy people.

Actually if you look at the demographics of who buys Macs vs. who buys Windows. The Mac buyers are on average older and have more education. You become more likely to buy a Mac as you get closer to 50.

Apples ads use younger actors because that is the image they want to send. But in real life age and education are what determine income and income determines if you can afford a Mac or must settle for a cheap $399 e-machine PC. No, don't talk about collage student buying Macs, mostly those are parents of students buying macs.

Clive At Five
Oct 30, 2007, 12:04 PM
ROFL ... Good one. In my experience they are mostly clueless and can't even add a mail account without hiring a 'tech'.

Whatever zealot. :rolleyes:

Seconded! I feel no shame in saying this: I am an equal opportunity OS-user. I have tamed Windows XP on my machines and it is wrapped around my finger, thank you very much.

Of course I wouldn't even need a PC if Apple would make a mid-range upgradeable tower....

Here I go again...

-Clive

SiliconAddict
Oct 30, 2007, 12:19 PM
What on earth are you on about?

The reason for the sales. I personally upgraded because I can't stand Tiger. From doing informal compairsons with some of my friends running Tiger on their PPC Macs....Its not nearly as polished on the Intel platform.


So are you a I want to get the heck away from Tiger person or a Leopard! Features! Speed! Great! person?

chr1s60
Oct 30, 2007, 12:28 PM
Wow, that is about twice as many as I thought they had sold. With preorders and everything I was thinking the number was likely around 1 million for the first weekend. This should only encourage Apple for future OS releases.

igazza
Oct 30, 2007, 12:29 PM
that is alot i wonder how many they will sell in a month.:apple:

wildmac
Oct 30, 2007, 12:29 PM
So, whatever happened to those secret features that Jobs was going to reveal later, but were never discussed?.. didn't make the final cut?..

psychofreak
Oct 30, 2007, 12:29 PM
So, whatever happened to those secret features that Jobs was going to reveal later, but were never discussed?.. didn't make the final cut?..

They were shown at WWDC, like the new desktop, Finder etc.

sam10685
Oct 30, 2007, 12:29 PM
Thats 500,000 per day or about 6 per second. Thats pretty good, are there any comparable numbers for Vista.

I'm guessing 1 per every 2 seconds.

elppa
Oct 30, 2007, 12:29 PM
And once again, Apple is HARDWARE company. We tried this remember? Mid-90's? Apple almost went bankrupt.

Steve Jobs says Apple is a software company.

I agree, Apple makes all their Software at Cupertino, California. All their hardware made by contractors using standard parts (although they do the design.)

I think the profits are in the hardware, but the Actual value is in the OS.

Take away OS X and iTunes and Apple would be poorer, take away the Mac Pro or the Mac Book and replace them with similar things on the market (still running the same software) and I think they would cope.

So whilst it is true to say they profit more from hardware, their software is just as, if not more important.

Consultant
Oct 30, 2007, 12:30 PM
Windows is still necessary for business environement, professional 3-D workstations and gamers because there are no Mac equivalent for most of their softwares.

However 90% of the people buying computers for their homes (casual users) have no reasons NOT to get a Mac. It's no surprise that over 50% of Mac users are over 50 years old!

With CrossOver, you don't even need windoze to run many windoze apps.

wildmac
Oct 30, 2007, 12:36 PM
They were shown at WWDC, like the new desktop, Finder etc.

There were some other things that he said were coming, but he wasn't going to talk about yet... I guess they were "too" secret... :rolleyes:

Avatar74
Oct 30, 2007, 12:38 PM
If Apple is indeed a HARDWARE company, and they lock their OS to their hardware only, then they need to satisfy all ends of the hardware market and start making some kick-@ss hardware to fill the GAPING HOLES left in their product lines - such as in the pro-sumer/mini tower area, and the enterprise area.

No company can be all things to all people. IBM learned this the hard way and finally did the smart thing by exiting the PC business. They simply do not serve the PC market as well as they serve the Midrange server and other enterprise markets. My brother was managing a portfolio of entry level UNIX server products at IBM... they were consistently clobbered by products that were $2k cheaper with more bang for the buck... which is critical in the enterprise environment.

Apple's core competency is not in the pro-sumer/mini-tower arena... and I don't know who started spreading this delusion around that Apple should be there, but now every third forum denizen is repeating it ad nauseum. It's a bit more complicated than saying, "My god, Apple doesn't make computers for everyone but they should."

No, Apple's core competency is in two key areas... Affluent consumer demographics where the key uses are: word processing, email, internet browsing PLUS digital appliance integration (i.e. A/V toys); and high-cost, high tech industries like biomedical, music, and motion pictures. Both of these target markets have something in common... cost is not the deal breaker in their purchasing decision.

That is where Apple wants to be, so be it. For the size of their company they make a tremendous amount of money serving this niche. As Nicholas Hayek discovered when he resurrected the tattered Omega brand that was diluted by too many models spanning too broad a price range trying to serve too many needs, consolidation and focused target marketing is key to proportional success. Apple is a lot more successful (read: ZERO DEBT) than Microsoft could ever be at THIS small a scale... Why?

Culture. Microsoft has none. Apple has it in spades.

Apple has culture. Large corporations looking for bottom dollar and people looking for "affordable towers" don't care about culture. Yuppies and midsize corporations with deep pockets and a sense of aesthetics and industrial design (hint hint... prepress graphics) do. The family earning $350,000 can justify the purchase no problem... The question isn't cost... The question is if the computer goes well with their $12,000 Natuzzi sectional sofa. The multimedia industry that has deadlines yesterday and labor prices in the stratosphere can afford an eight core Mac Pro with 8 gigs of RAM and terabytes of RAID storage (and probably use every bit of it), no problem.

Not surprisingly, Apple Stores are strategically placed in the most affluent districts of major MSA's. Willow Bend in Plano is one of three Dallas area stores... Plano has a median household income of $100,000 and residents such as cyclist Lance Armstrong and gymnast Nastia Liukin. Tokyo's Ginza district has some of the most expensive real estate in the world... it was packed to the brim with Apple fanatics when Leopard premiered.

To compete with Microsoft is to aspire to be the Wal-Mart of the computer industry... success by volume, not imagination. Where the hell is the fun in that? Anyone can hit a bullseye eventually if they keep throwing darts at a wall to see what sticks. It takes real skill to hit the bullseye on one throw. That's brand power you can't ignore.

Another problem is this notion that Microsoft is Apple's main competitor. They aren't. Apple is a hardware company, and they are the third largest computer manufacturer by volume now... behind only Dell and HP. At their rate of growth, three times the industry average, they could very welll become the market leader in 5-10 years. That is a significant achievement for a company once on the brink of extinction.

Now, yes in Steve Jobs' eyes, Microsoft is the competition. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. To seep into the public conscience Apple needs a footing. They're doing this systematically in a way that never occurred to Microsoft. Gates' genius idea was to make people need his product. But you can't get people to like you if they need you... eventually they come to resent you. You get people to like you by making them WANT you. Apple peppers the market with devices that people want.... people latch on, get a taste of the Apple experience. This brings them in to the Apple store and lo and behold what do they see? Apple computers all shiny, new and ALL of them turned on and connected to the internet with tons of apps to try out and no one waiting to kick you out of the store for loitering on macrumors for five hours.

For Microsoft, the money is in the software... BECAUSE ITS ALL THEY'VE GOT. For Apple, the money is in the hardware.... The software they make simply so they, not someone else, control the quality of the user experience. And what a user experience it is!

It still comes down to making a cool product because there are plenty of proprietary solutions that end up sucking wind in the market.... Sony made several of them. Perhaps you remember a few?

Apple's footing against Microsoft is gained by playing in an arena Microsoft can't seem to grasp... Hardware. Once they become the dominant market player against Dell and HP, toppling Microsoft in the consumer space will be relatively easy... ridiculously easy if Apple maintains fiscal conservancy and sustainable growth (read: ZERO DEBT) and it will from there be a much simpler venture if Apple chooses at THAT time to get into the enterprise PC market full-scale. I still don't think they should, and that goes back to the piss poor margins on volume orders with large businesses who only care about getting the minimum equipment at the cheapest price. Let me tell you about how stingy my multimillion dollar company is that will recycle every drive-melting HP laptop they've got no matter how much it costs in the short term because in their imagination this is a better investment than a computer that lasts five to ten years. (and maybe there are tax advantages to quickly depreciating products that we haven't considered here...)

To summarize... Apple does not need to be all things to all people. And every company that tries to be all things to all people ends up being some things to all people half of the time.

Apple's formula for fiscal success is simply this: Be everything to some of the people all of the time.

TuffLuffJimmy
Oct 30, 2007, 12:39 PM
this may seem dumb but how many iPhones did apple sell in the first weekend?

Consultant
Oct 30, 2007, 12:43 PM
i am (WAS) a windoz fanboy. the "only" thing abt vista i like is the windows mail..and thats because of its spam filter...
other than that, vista is really pathetic... i saw my colleagues laptop running a brand new sony tz series laptop. the boot time was apalling :eek:
i dont know how many people are going to be happy with vista...:rolleyes:

trust me...im still using a vista machine now. and i have tried out tiger only for a day or so. that was enough to win me over. i cant wait to get a new MB

For a great spam filtering program, try SpamSieve
c-command.com/spamsieve

waldo1979
Oct 30, 2007, 12:46 PM
I don't know about legit copies of leopard, but their was a run on Dual Layer DVD's in my neighbor.

jhlane27
Oct 30, 2007, 12:59 PM
I've followed these boards for quite some time now, but am finally commenting on the article. This is great news for Apple and Apple users. I really think you'll see more and more people thinking and switching to the mac platform. People are excited about Apple, and that goes a long way when those same people start talking to their friends and showing off their MacBooks, iMacs, Leopard, iLife, iWork etc. I work in the educational field and deal with over 54 school districts at one point or another. And sure enough, I've convinced our Model Schools Team to purchase new mb and mbp. There really is no better solution. And the same trend is happening in schools. While it's slow, a slow conversion is better then none at all.

My question to those who are using Leopard, what are you highlighting when you show it to your friends and colleagues? I know that TM is getting a lot of attention, but I'm finding the smaller features to be quite useful and resourceful.

Congratulations to Apple on the early numbers. Happy Leopard days ahead! Cheers ~

chaseardoin7
Oct 30, 2007, 01:00 PM
congrats apple

:apple:

jaw04005
Oct 30, 2007, 01:02 PM
Steve Jobs says Apple is a software company.

No, Steve Jobs said Apple views itself as a software company. However, Apple is actually a hardware company. That's where it makes its money. There's a fundamental difference between *being* and *viewing itself* as a software company. Apple looks to its software to create its hardware.

"People that love software want to build their own hardware.”

http://d5.allthingsd.com/20070531/d5-gates-jobs-transcript/

p0intblank
Oct 30, 2007, 01:03 PM
Very nice accomplishment! :)

Consultant
Oct 30, 2007, 01:09 PM
Glass is half full: OMG! Leopard is the best version of OS X yet! Everyone wants it! Its great!

Glass is half empty: Everyone want to get the heck off Tiger.

So are you guys full or empty? :p :D

Whatever zealot. :rolleyes:

*sighs* I find it amazing how people can bitch about an OS and Id bet $10 most of you haven't used it for more then a month at most. Windows like any OS has a learning curve. The problem with most of you people is that you never tried to LEARN Windows and instead decided to crap all over it and call it sucky. I was the EXACT same way the first 4-6 months on OS X. I swear as god as my witness there were days I wanted to find Jobs and smash this damn laptop over his head in frustration. OS X CAN and does cause frustration, I've found Leopard to cause less of it though. Much less.

If you learn Windows, and not just learn where to find x or y feature in the Control Panel, it can easily be as good as OS X. But you need to know its quirks. You need to know where its faults are are and fill in the holes with the software equivalent of spackle. Windows can be a complete OS but you DO need a few third party apps to do it. You need to know how to tweak windows. That is what the IT pro is for. We know this crap backwards and forwards. Hell I use to support an office of Mac's running Panther. I was dropped into the place because we picked up a contract to do IT support and it included this one off office of about 30 Macs running Panther. Didn't have to go there often but I can tell you right now tha t there were quirks with OS X just as there are with any OS. I really wish the zealots would wrap this concept around their little egocentric brain. Windows doesn't suck any more then all OS's be it OS X, Windows, Linux, Amiga, Unix, BSD, DOS, OS/400, VAX all suck to a certain extent.


Have you tried to set up wireless internet on windoze machines? What about one with a new wireless card without a driver? Can you do it in 2 clicks? Good luck trying to do that with windoze.

Windoze's poor design and bad usability that require various "tweaking" and expensive, and often clueless "IT pro" is not something that the user should have to "learn" to understand or get used to.

Here are some examples:
- windoze require anti-virus and anti-spyware programs.
Installing those programs makes the machines 10% slower.
- Windoze machines slow down with installation of each
new program, even if the program is not being run.
That's due to problems with the windoze registry. With
a Mac, no matter how many apps you install, it will
not slow down the computer.
- Mac OS can run multiple apps, open multiple documents, photos, at the same time without slow downs
- Inconsistent behaviors of MS programs for even the most basic functions such as opening, saving, and closing a document.
- Running a mac = less time trying to figure out where
is the incompatible driver / hardware / software /
windoze bug, and actually more time doing things you
want to do.
- Windoze machines slow down over time inexplicably, as soon as a
few months after clean install.

The choice is clear. The windoze trolls r just shatting in their moma's basement because they know their days are numbered (before they get taken away to the insane asylums for saying windoze is better despite of all facts pointing otherwise).

john789
Oct 30, 2007, 01:13 PM
aha..ok 2 million....So?? like that is beneficial for us :( .....where is the new and improved macbook??? :confused: now thats real news. :)

MacBram
Oct 30, 2007, 01:14 PM
Well, then Apple would have to remove upgrades, pre-installed, developer and maintenance agreement copies from its final tally also.

The change from XP to Vista, was that the majority of Vista sales were with new machines (partly because of the pent-up demand for new computers thanks to Vista's delay and more stringent system requirements).

Unlike Mac users, Windows users tend to get new operating systems with system purchases. Mac users tend to purchase more upgrades (proportionately as to user base since Apple releases upgrades on a more regular basis than Microsoft). The only Microsoft operating system that can even compare to a new Mac OS X version launch (hype, publicity, etc) was Windows 95.

As far as upgrades and maintenance agreements: I don't think anyone would ask to discount them from MS totals but keep them for Apple. I think the issue is that big corporations probably have standing agreement to get system upgrades (which are counted), but in actual fact they are insisting that the upgrades are not carried out in the case of Vista. LOL.

Further, I get the feeling that MS counts all OEM copies sold to PC manufacturers like Dell. So, for sake of argument, maybe 2 Million OEMs are licensed to Dell for the opening timeframe, but in the time frame counted Dell actually only sells say 500K or so computers. Whereas, the hardware sales Apple is counting are actual hardware sales? Maybe that is not how MS OEMs work, but at the very least it sounds like MS is counting every PC that comes off the shelf sold after Vista comes out, while a large number are being used with XP or other.

psychofreak
Oct 30, 2007, 01:21 PM
aha..ok 2 million....So?? like that is beneficial for us :( The more Leopard owners, the more development there is using Leopard technologies...

Consultant
Oct 30, 2007, 01:23 PM
Believe what you want, but wake me up when businesses around the world stop using Exchange servers that only work with Windows (sure, you get some access on a Mac, but it's hardly the same.)

Note to troll in his moma's basement: Exchange isn't necessary for business.

Better solution:
http://www.apple.com/business/tip/productivity/

rdowns
Oct 30, 2007, 01:25 PM
The more Leopard owners, the more development there is using Leopard technologies...


That and my Apple stock jut keep going up and up and up. :D

iQuit
Oct 30, 2007, 01:26 PM
I'm not thoroughly satisfied. Am I the only who notices that PPC versions of OSX were always MUCH more stable? Leopard is darn fast but that doesn't excuse why it crashes so often. I am not the only one who has experienced crashes with iMovie and iChat. Thankfully I had APE and still upgraded successfully but I don't like the direction Apple is going. Yes Leopard is very nice but I'm not going to bow down that everything Apple comes out with is perfect or genius. It seems as if Apple is going after Windows customers. Compress instead of archive? People are forgetting the counterculture that Apple represents and came from. They are becoming exactly the company they set out not to be.

So maybe a lot of it is superficial changes. Even still, where is the CULTURE of Apple going?

~Shard~
Oct 30, 2007, 01:28 PM
Have you tried to set up wireless internet on windoze machines? What about one with a new wireless card without a driver? Can you do it in 2 clicks? Good luck trying to do that with windoze.


Not saying I disagree with you, but when people use old, tired, unfunny and what-they-mistake-to-be-clever spelling variations such as "windoze" repeatedly it usually ends up being to the detriment of the point which they are trying to make. It's a matter of perception and one to be aware of. Just some friendly advice for your consideration, that's all. :cool:

iriejedi
Oct 30, 2007, 01:31 PM
Wow... the HARDDRIVE manufacturers must be thrilled. Apple employees were pimping the Backup Drives pretty hard on Friday. I bet they sold a ton of them.

picked up a 750 gig Free Agent pro at Frys' for like $349... WAY better than my Maxtor triple interface drive (silver with blue light) - the fre agent pro is so super quiet and sleek looking.... just a HD opinion for anyone wondering if they should take advantage of time machine or not.


G

john789
Oct 30, 2007, 01:31 PM
The more Leopard owners, the more development there is using Leopard technologies...

yeah you've got a point....Im just sooo eager to get my first Mac. I have a YEAR waiting to get it. First i was expecting to get it last spring when leopard was supposed to come out on sale...then it was postponed thanks to the all mighty iphone.And now that is finally out they are talking about an upgrade coming on the macbook. I mean i think this is why not masses of people switch to mac, Apple is always making their products outdated without notice. Like my friend she got a macbook back in june...and now she cant upgrade to leopard for free because you are required to have bought your computer after Oct 1. I mean why didnt apple said so before?? like microsoft did? I love apple products, and the mac is wonderful, but sometimes their marketing and product management treats its customers very unfairly. I just hope we get a macbook update soon so i can finally get rid of windows.....else i'll have to wait until the San fran macworld next year..:mad::(

Consultant
Oct 30, 2007, 01:44 PM
Not saying I disagree with you, but when people use old, tired, unfunny and what-they-mistake-to-be-clever spelling variations such as "windoze" repeatedly it usually ends up being to the detriment of the point which they are trying to make. It's a matter of perception and one to be aware of. Just some friendly advice for your consideration, that's all. :cool:

Doh! Can't help it. Windows and its bad usability makes me want to glaze over and catch some zzzz...

Perhaps a word like "Zune" attempts to do the same thing? =p
http://letskilldave.com/archive/2006/08/28/ok_2C00_-maybe-_2200_Zune_2200_-wasn_2700_t-such-a-great-name-after-all_2E002E002E00_.aspx
Even MS embraces the "Z"... (Well actually it's just another bad MS product).

Anyway, with 2 Million OSX Leopard sold, it is great news for Apple.

hulugu
Oct 30, 2007, 01:53 PM
If Apple is indeed a HARDWARE company, and they lock their OS to their hardware only, then they need to satisfy all ends of the hardware market and start making some kick-@ss hardware to fill the GAPING HOLES left in their product lines - such as in the pro-sumer/mini tower area, and the enterprise area.

Explain to me what this amorphous enterprise unit is? Is it shaped like a disk? :D

Apple is currently disinterested in those two markets, I presume because there's lots of competition for very little profit especially in the 'enterprise' market. Furthermore, there's a lot more to selling to 'enterprise' users than just having the right box, the XServe and XServe RAID are ridiculously well-designed boxes and are cheaper than similar offerings, and yet this great hardware gets a collective 'meh' from IT managers who can't get over the Apple symbol.
Apple doesn't want to compete in this arena because there's little future in selling pizza boxes to call centers. Dell's great at it, but they're having more and more trouble making money at it.

This is because Windows users are nerdy business people who have better, more important things to do than camp out for days on end for an OS release that will only appeal to young, hip, trendy people.

And you get the word for best stereotyping with elements of false dichotomy in the thread. Congratulations. I especially like the point that only nerdy business people do important things, while the young and hip are just faffing off apparently. :rolleyes:

Mazda 3
Oct 30, 2007, 02:01 PM
Still waiting on the Up-To-Date DVD I ordered last Wednesday to arrive. :(

I finally got mine yesterday after ordering last Tuesday. Came in the mail 1st class envelope. No holographic case tho.

The installation went flawless on my new iMac 20" 2.4

Loving Leopard so far;) :apple::apple:

Consultant
Oct 30, 2007, 02:26 PM
Value of stock in Apple has reached record high today!

It is more than double the price of last year.

I wonder what news prompted this record high? Go AAPL

john789
Oct 30, 2007, 02:28 PM
Value of stock in Apple has reached record high today!

It is more than double the price of last year.

I wonder what news prompted this record high? Go AAPL

Maybe the fact that we are gonna get a brand new Macbook design with alunimum casing and multi-touch track pad. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE :apple:

hayesk
Oct 30, 2007, 02:42 PM
I wonder how many of those 2 million didn't feel positive when their installation DVD didn't work or the installation finished and all they were left with was a blue screen?

Probably not that many, as those were "power users" that installed Application Enhancer. Most users don't even know about that utility.

Edit: I got the supposed "blue screen" on one machine that appeared to be rebuilding its driver cache. However, instead of restarting, I left it. 10 minutes later, it finished restarted and all was well. I wonder if the blue screen is just a performance issue and not a crashing issue.

Rodimus Prime
Oct 30, 2007, 02:47 PM
Have you tried to set up wireless internet on windoze machines? What about one with a new wireless card without a driver? Can you do it in 2 clicks? Good luck trying to do that with windoze.

Windoze's poor design and bad usability that require various "tweaking" and expensive, and often clueless "IT pro" is not something that the user should have to "learn" to understand or get used to.

Here are some examples:
- windoze require anti-virus and anti-spyware programs.
Installing those programs makes the machines 10% slower.
- Windoze machines slow down with installation of each
new program, even if the program is not being run.
That's due to problems with the windoze registry. With
a Mac, no matter how many apps you install, it will
not slow down the computer.
- Mac OS can run multiple apps, open multiple documents, photos, at the same time without slow downs
- Inconsistent behaviors of MS programs for even the most basic functions such as opening, saving, and closing a document.
- Running a mac = less time trying to figure out where
is the incompatible driver / hardware / software /
windoze bug, and actually more time doing things you
want to do.
- Windoze machines slow down over time inexplicably, as soon as a
few months after clean install.

The choice is clear. The windoze trolls r just shatting in their moma's basement because they know their days are numbered (before they get taken away to the insane asylums for saying windoze is better despite of all facts pointing otherwise).


And here we have an example of case and point of what the guy you quoted was saying. You clearly are only repeating crap you have read and heard but have never to no real experience in working with windows or know how little things like AV really effect the system. Lets see on my windows computer the AV software eat up I believe less than 20 megs of ram and 20 megs of VM and those mostly right as start up. After that it drops to under 5 pretty quickly.
Also you should learn that windows preforms does not degreed with each new program. The reg while a mess does not really effect things that badly. It more just an annoying spot for things to hide.

Digital Skunk
Oct 30, 2007, 03:02 PM
yeah you've got a point....Im just sooo eager to get my first Mac. I have a YEAR waiting to get it. First i was expecting to get it last spring when leopard was supposed to come out on sale...then it was postponed thanks to the all mighty iphone.And now that is finally out they are talking about an upgrade coming on the macbook. I mean i think this is why not masses of people switch to mac, Apple is always making their products outdated without notice. Like my friend she got a macbook back in june...and now she cant upgrade to leopard for free because you are required to have bought your computer after Oct 1. I mean why didnt apple said so before?? like microsoft did? I love apple products, and the mac is wonderful, but sometimes their marketing and product management treats its customers very unfairly. I just hope we get a macbook update soon so i can finally get rid of windows.....else i'll have to wait until the San fran macworld next year..:mad::(

Honestly, she should have known better. Everyone knew since January that Apple was coming out with a new OS, and they moved the date back to October when it was originally some time in the summer, so she should have known that the OS was due when she got her machine.

And why should she get it for free when she bought her machine in June, almost four months ago? Free is absurd, and borderline greedy. I can understand buying a machine a month before Leopard debuts and paying $10 for a disc, but four months ago and free???? That's sounds more like someone wanting to whine about their own shortcomings.

Todays society never wants to take responsibility for their own mistakes or problems, always blaming someone else.

Consultant
Oct 30, 2007, 03:07 PM
...

Unfortunately, those facts are based personal experience, and the frustration vented by many intelligent windows users.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/18/1512243&from=rss
You think the PC Magazine editor would understand a little about windows?

Where are your facts? Do you get jealous? Are you crying because OSX is so successful and Macs are gaining market share? Well, you do know that OS X will be the inspiration of the next badly copied Windows RipoffVersionAlpha which will be released 5 or 6 years from now, so you sort of have something to live for.

Compared Mac OS side by side with windows, most reasonable people would see that Mac OS X is superior.

That's why so many copy of Leopard were sold.

inkswamp
Oct 30, 2007, 03:21 PM
I wonder how many of those 2 million didn't feel positive when their installation DVD didn't work or the installation finished and all they were left with was a blue screen?

http://nappydesigns.com/wp-uploads/debbie_downer.jpg

"Yeah, enjoy your new OS. I'm sure the kids starving in third world nations will appreciate all 300 of those new features."

Wah-wahhhhh. :D

GoodWatch
Oct 30, 2007, 03:23 PM
Unfortunately, those facts are based personal experience, and the frustration vented by many intelligent windows users.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/18/1512243&from=rss
You think the PC Magazine editor would understand a little about windows?

Where are your facts? Do you get jealous? Are you crying because OSX is so successful and Macs are gaining market share? Well, you do know that OS X will be the inspiration of the next badly copied Windows RipoffVersionAlpha which will be released 5 or 6 years from now, so you sort of have something to live for.

Compared Mac OS side by side with windows, most reasonable people would see that Mac OS X is superior.

That's why so many copy of Leopard were sold.

Yawn...

Why measure one's own succes against the perceived failure of the oposition? You just try a little too much. And it may back-fire. I whish I could invite you to have a tour on our site. You would be amazed how 'Windoze' (hah, hah, hah) performs in a real 24/7 environment. But I'll save my breath, this is perhaps too simple for you.

milo
Oct 30, 2007, 03:28 PM
Vista is in no means a failure. Granted, I hate windoze and Vista is undoubtedly a bug ridden piece of crap, it is not a failure. Apple has 8% market share which means in the coming few years most all of 92% computers will have Vista installed. How? It comes pre-installed by the manufacturers.

At this point, Vista is selling worse than XP did on release. Many people are insisting on XP for new computer purchases. And it seems to be hurting windows market share, microsoft would probably be doing better now if they hadn't even released it at all and just kept selling XP.

I'd call that a pretty big failure. It reminds me of the old joke..."How do you make a million bucks in the stock market? Start with ten million bucks..."

Sure, but a lot more trouble than Tiger.
Tiger was better than Vista. Leopard should be compared to one thing and one thing only, and that is 10.4.10. A lot of things are better and a lot of things are worse.

Sorry, I don't buy that. Tiger did have a few problems, some fairly serious ones. Almost all the issues I've seen with Leopard are minor, if not aesthetic quibbles. And many reviews have noted how polished the release is, and that it has had fewer problems than any previous OSX release.

Am I the only who notices that PPC versions of OSX were always MUCH more stable?

It's possible. I haven't had any more crashes on my intel box than on any of the PPC boxes I've owned (less than some). It sounds like the third party hacks you're running may be hurting your stability.

Apple is always making their products outdated without notice. Like my friend she got a macbook back in june...and now she cant upgrade to leopard for free because you are required to have bought your computer after Oct 1. I mean why didnt apple said so before?? like microsoft did?

So you're saying that MS gave free Vista upgrades to anyone who bought a windows box five months before Vista shipped? Funny, I don't remember them doing that.


And once again, I have to agree with the omnipresent off-topic call for a midrange headless mac.

GoodWatch
Oct 30, 2007, 03:29 PM
hmm dont see a list like crap you posted. Really your stuff screams you do not know what you are talking about. It bash M$ this and that. I just do not buy it. I have way to much experience with XP to see any of the stuff you listed being true. My post is true you just repeating crap you hear and you never got over the learning curve. So thank you for being the classic example of why Apple users get call fan boys and clueless idiots. They spit out things that they do not know what they are talking about.

While I use apple computers and OSX I get sick when complete clueless do not know what they are talking about start spitting out the classic crap they just hear. I never said it was better than OSX you put that in. I was correcting your idiotic comments.

Thank you for making all Apple users look bad.

Thank you for making - real Apple users - look good :)

Digital Skunk
Oct 30, 2007, 03:40 PM
Yawn...

Why measure one's own succes against the perceived failure of the oposition? You just try a little too much. And it may back-fire. I whish I could invite you to have a tour on our site. You would be amazed how 'Windoze' (hah, hah, hah) performs in a real 24/7 environment. But I'll save my breath, this is perhaps too simple for you.

People take both OSes too far. Microsoft's Vista IS a failure because they wanted people to flock to it in droves, and they didn't. XP is still being offered on many systems, which is good thinking on MS's and PC vendor's parts.

Mac OS X is far superior in almost every regard, especially since it can run Windows side by side. But as many are murmuring about, the Rev A Leopard has some bugs, and there are some issues with OS X that many people have. A lot of those issues aren't remedied unless you restart your machine.

Consultant
Oct 30, 2007, 03:46 PM
hmm dont see a list like crap you posted. Really your stuff screams you do not know what you are talking about. It bash M$ this and that. I just do not buy it. I have way to much experience with XP to see any of the stuff you listed being true. My post is true you just repeating crap you hear and you never got over the learning curve. So thank you for being the classic example of why Apple users get call fan boys and clueless idiots. They spit out things that they do not know what they are talking about.

While I use apple computers and OSX I get sick when complete clueless do not know what they are talking about start spitting out the classic crap they just hear. I never said it was better than OSX you put that in. I was correcting your idiotic comments.

Thank you for making all Apple users look bad.

I still don't see any facts from you that disputes what I have said. All you have is personal insults and your personal feelings.

By the way, my job is in a technology firm charging >$1000 per day for my expertise. And yes, I work with windows most of the day.

GoodWatch
Oct 30, 2007, 03:54 PM
Mac OS X is far superior in almost every regard, especially since it can run Windows side by side.

Unless you are talking about a virtual environment, OS X can't run Windows side by side. OS X provides for a very sleek dual boot manager. That's all. You boot straight into whatever OS is installed on the extra partition. After the OS choice, OS X has nothing further to do with it. I've been using a (PC platform based) boot manager for years, could boot straight into any flavour of Windows, DOS, Linux, etc. :D

morespce54
Oct 30, 2007, 04:11 PM
Wow... the HARDDRIVE manufacturers must be thrilled. Apple employees were pimping the Backup Drives pretty hard on Friday. I bet they sold a ton of them.

OMG, that sooo true! ;)

GoodWatch
Oct 30, 2007, 04:16 PM
OMG, that sooo true! ;)

I don't know if that is true but I picked up a 500 GB LaCie last Saturday :rolleyes: 99.95 Euro, a snip :D Time Machine, oh Time Machine, where are you? :p

DanB91
Oct 30, 2007, 04:23 PM
yeah you've got a point....Im just sooo eager to get my first Mac. I have a YEAR waiting to get it. First i was expecting to get it last spring when leopard was supposed to come out on sale...then it was postponed thanks to the all mighty iphone.And now that is finally out they are talking about an upgrade coming on the macbook. I mean i think this is why not masses of people switch to mac, Apple is always making their products outdated without notice. Like my friend she got a macbook back in june...and now she cant upgrade to leopard for free because you are required to have bought your computer after Oct 1. I mean why didnt apple said so before?? like microsoft did? I love apple products, and the mac is wonderful, but sometimes their marketing and product management treats its customers very unfairly. I just hope we get a macbook update soon so i can finally get rid of windows.....else i'll have to wait until the San fran macworld next year..:mad::(if u keep waiting ull never get anything

Rodimus Prime
Oct 30, 2007, 05:19 PM
I still don't see any facts from you that disputes what I have said. All you have is personal insults and your personal feelings.

By the way, my job is in a technology firm charging >$1000 per day for my expertise. And yes, I work with windows most of the day.


I have a hard time believe that because of the long list of things that you wrote that are complete at utter crap.


As for Vista not doing as well as XP is for a fair number of reasons. I have only seen it and minorly played with it so I do not know much about it only things I have read (I refuse to pay to upgrade the OS on my 3 year old PC unless my college gets around to providing vista it will not be until I replace my PC that I will have it)

XP was the replacement for the windows 9.x line (windows 2000 target market was businesses it was never meant to be used for the consumer computer) Going from the 9.x platform to NT is a huge change and a good upgrade so that is one reason it sold well.

Vista has deal with the fact it is replacing XP that everyone is used to and people do not like change in general. IF you look even as OSX on the user end the changes between each OS over all is fairly minor and a few new feature here and there added. Vista is a much larger change in how everyone looks and it is new. That will slow people down.

Vista really does not bring that much new stuff to the table. It is still windows NT. So not much motivation there. Plus computers are lasting longer these days. It used to be after about 3 years a computer was started to really feel it age and having trouble keeping up. Now they are lasting 5+ years and a lot of the computers older than 3 years can not run Vista.

Lastly most of the time most OS updates are from new computer sells. Again computers are lasting longer so that reduces sells. Chances are good my PC will not be upgraded to vista until I replace it and then the current one more than likely will become a linux box/ server for me.

digitalbiker
Oct 30, 2007, 05:34 PM
Do you have another OS on one of the other HDs in you macPro? I get this every now and then when my machine is searching for which drive to start from... the mac drive, the windows drive or the CD. I fixed it but just setting the boot drive.

That was the problem! I just selected the boot drive again in System preferences, re-booted and everything is back to normal. Strange though because I know that the system disk had been selected before. I guess it sort of de-selected itself after the update.

Anyway thanks for the help. I should have tried that first but since it was booting from the correct disk I just assumed that it was already selected.

whooleytoo
Oct 30, 2007, 05:34 PM
this may seem dumb but how many iPhones did apple sell in the first weekend?

Which raises an interesting point - since the iPhone is based on Leopard, are iPhone sales included in the Leopard sales figures? ;)

digitalbiker
Oct 30, 2007, 05:40 PM
Which raises an interesting point - since the iPhone is based on Leopard, are iPhone sales included in the Leopard sales figures? ;)

I would say No!. The iPhone OS is derived from OS X, not necessarily Leopard 10.5 and buying an iPhone with a system OS is a lot different than buying a Mac which runs Leopard specifically and includes Leopard 10.5 install disks.

sulhaq
Oct 30, 2007, 05:45 PM
A valid point, many manufacturers will load Windows on there machines. They still have to sell those machines to customers though. Whilst a number of large companies will but them, fewer consumers (particularly those looking for a laptop) are interested.

Although you are right in the sense that after hearing Vista nightmares from everybody, few people want to buy laptops with it pre-installed, the fact of the matter is most modern laptops don't have an XP option. And since most people are clueless about OS X they will have no choice but to buy a Vista laptop. Since most big name companies are not even offering XP on their machines. Not only that, if you downgrade yourself the hardware installed has no drivers available for XP!

That-Is-Bull
Oct 30, 2007, 07:32 PM
As had been pointed out, this affects the small proportion of users using APE.

I have APE installed and did an upgrade from Tiger, never saw the blue screen. I never saw the intro video either though, 'cause I was in the kitchen making a badass omelet and didn't check the OS until awhile after it finished. When does the blue screen appear? I thought I was just lucky, but now I'm reading the blue screen goes away after awhile so it might've happened to me too.

Digital Skunk
Oct 30, 2007, 07:40 PM
I have APE installed and did an upgrade from Tiger, never saw the blue screen. I never saw the intro video either though, 'cause I was in the kitchen making a badass omelet and didn't check the OS until awhile after it finished. When does the blue screen appear? I thought I was just lucky, but now I'm reading the blue screen goes away after awhile so it might've happened to me too.

Dude, you're the coolest newbie ever, just because I love omelets. Keep posting useful information.

winmacguy
Oct 31, 2007, 12:16 AM
Vista's first week sales, 59% less than XP... (boxed copies from retail stores)

Vista first week sales (http://www.news.com/Sales-of-boxed-Vista-copies-down-over-XP/2100-1016_3-6159700.html)

Oh and the one thing that stunned me when I bought my copy of Leopard... The number of people buying a new Mac.

Judging by the amount of queries from first time MAC (ex PC types) owners on Yahoo Answers forum I would say your observations would be about right.

GoodWatch
Oct 31, 2007, 06:51 AM
Judging by the amount of queries from first time MAC (ex PC types) owners on Yahoo Answers forum I would say your observations would be about right.

The real question, of course, is how many copies of XP were sold in the same time span. Although that is information that I don't care about, I use OS X now.

blisters
Oct 31, 2007, 01:59 PM
So you're saying that MS gave free Vista upgrades to anyone who bought a windows box five months before Vista shipped? Funny, I don't remember them doing that.



Pretty close. Dell started offering free upgrades in Sept. 06. A full four months before Vista was released.

Jetson
Oct 31, 2007, 02:34 PM
I finally received my copy of Leopard last night. I started the installation process just before going to bed.

Leopard installed flawlessly and was waiting for me this morning when I awoke. I've only had a short while to play with it, but I have several impressions I'd like to pass on:

General
I have an iMac G5 2.1 20", so I can't take advantage of Boot Camp. I haven't configured Time Machine yet.

Overall I'm very impressed with Leopard, though it obviously needs a little trimming around the edges, so to speak.

The Good
Start up seems to be about as fast as Tiger.

I like the appearance and backgrounds.

Operations such as opening folders, starting applications and general responsiveness is noticeably improved - quicker.

Most of my settings in Tiger were retained in Leopard which was very convenient.

Safari really is snappier! It displays and renders pages much more quickly. I finally feel the power of the machine and of the broadband connection. Also, some little annoyances have been removed. One annoyance in particular in Tiger, if I accidently placed my cursor over the Bookmarks menu item, I would be stuck for 1-2 minutes watching the spinning beachball while Safari pulled up hundreds of bookmarks ever so slowly. It was like a quicksand trap that I couldn't help but fall into ocassionally. Now, selecting the Bookmarks menu item barely registers a blip - 1 second if that.

I feel as though I have a new computer - almost. Everything is refreshed and new looking with better performance.

The Bad
Leopard will not remember the View settings for individual folders. For instance, I like my Hard Drive folder to view as icons, but my document folder to view as a name list. When I set my documents folder to view as list, Leopard resets all the other folders as list. Come on Apple - this is a basic Finder feature, how could you forget to include it?

There is a Downloads folder at the far right of the Dock. I tried to move the contents of my existing downloads folder into this one, but it wouldn't work - it just created a stack of my former downloads folder on the Dock.

iTunes starts just as slowly as it did in Tiger - it loads ridiculously slowly, and I get the progress bar waiting for it to start up.

The Ugly
Safari doesn't render some web pages correctly. For instance, the text and selection items of my Seller Account page in Amazon.com look like unreadable, tiny blobs. I can't increase the font size on them. This worked fine in Tiger, but is broken in Leopard.

The Dock is a little buggy. For instance I ran a pinball game, then quit. When I looked at the dock, some of the icons were overlaid with green blotches. If I moved the Dock to the side then back to the bottom, the icons were restored.

Conclusion
I really like Leopard - I'm happy that I bought it. I've just begun to discover it's secrets, but I like what I see so far. There are a few annoying bugs which Apple should fix immediately. Nonetheless I think that Apple has done a fantastic job! :D

DMann
Nov 1, 2007, 02:44 PM
This is quite an increase compared to 100,000 during the first week of Tiger's release....

elppa
Nov 1, 2007, 04:09 PM
Leopard will not remember the View settings for individual folders. For instance, I like my Hard Drive folder to view as icons, but my document folder to view as a name list. When I set my documents folder to view as list, Leopard resets all the other folders as list. Come on Apple - this is a basic Finder feature, how could you forget to include it?

I much prefer this in Leopard. If I want to browse in icon view I browse in icon view and I want everything in icon view, not some folders to randomly change to another view as under Tiger.

If you want your Documents to open as a list, then it's as simple as checking a box in the view options.

ctsport
Nov 1, 2007, 05:21 PM
congrats apple! Iam still waiting for my copy! grrr..