New Version of Panther (Tachyon) for New Hardware? [Archive]

MacRumors

Sep 10, 2003, 11:59 AM

ThinkSecret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/tachyon.html) notes that Apple is currently working on a minor Panther version to be released with new hardware after the consumer release of Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) reaches Gold Master.

As ThinkSecret reports -- this is typical behavior -- as each new Mac from Apple which is released comes bundled with a slightly updated version of the operating system. These minor updates/tweaks simply provide support for whatever new hardware or configurations are provided in the new machines.

They speculate, however, that this new version may herald a new release in the near future. The new iMacs and upcoming PowerBooks are (presumably) excluded as they should ship prior to Panther's consumer release. Our Buyer's Guide (http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/) lists iBooks as the next consumer model due for an update, as it is is approaching the end of its release cycle.

The Xserve is also approaching time for a revision, with many expectations for a G5 release. However, while not specified by ThinkSecret, the implication seems to be that Tachyon is a version of Panther Client, not Server.

DanUk2003

Sep 10, 2003, 12:02 PM

I don't care what it is - just please announce Panther is at GM soon!

;)

DrGruv1

Sep 10, 2003, 12:04 PM

or something else

hmm...
pda?
:)

hobbes3113

Sep 10, 2003, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by DrGruv1
or something else

hmm...
pda?
:)

Lets not go down this road again...

edgar_is_good

Sep 10, 2003, 12:09 PM

http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn2086.html

edit: See under "Getting the right tools"

"There are three main developer tools components you will want to install to get setup for G5 tuning. The Tachyon 1.0 Developer Preview CD can also be used, although since that tools release is not yet final, it will not be the focus of this technote."

I think this is just Panther for the _current_ G5 boxes.

iwantanewmac

Sep 10, 2003, 12:10 PM

Does that count for upgrades in processor speed as well? (the small differences in OS)

I upgraded from g4 350 to a g4 400 (a long time ago :) )but I couldn't find anything different in the software/os

They only do this the last couple of years?

geerlingguy

Sep 10, 2003, 12:12 PM

If there are new iBooks, what would be probable specs, and would costs be the same? I'm guessing something like 900Mhz-1.2 Ghz G3, 30-60 GB HD, 128-256MB RAM, ATI Radeon Mobility Video (16 & 32 MB?), possible new enclosure/other new features (the line hasn't had a facelift in a while...). While new G5 PBs may be cool, Apple needs to have a much better offering for $999-$1499 consumer laptops.

Nemesis

Sep 10, 2003, 12:12 PM

So, Apple will introduce Tachyons...
But, I think that Tachyons can disrupt scanner readings and disrupt force fields... They're also problematic because they're unwanted residue of many cloaking devices and technologies.

xtekdiver

Sep 10, 2003, 12:13 PM

Could it possibly be a tweak for the new G5 Powerbook? Like some new features in the OS to control power consumption and heat issues? As we get closer to the Paris Expo I am becoming more convinced that a minor update to Powerbooks is not likely and a "big" announcement is at hand; but in typical fasion, whatever is announced will not be ready for some time. Panther is nearing completion already and Apple may feel compeled to announce new hardware well in advance of it's release. It would seem to me that they are falling behind in some of their product lines. The G5 announcement was a necesity, but had to be announced well before they were ready to ship; I think G5 PBs have to be next and soon. They may not be ready, but Apple may be forced to announce them anyway and a future update to Panther may reflect this.

leenoble

Sep 10, 2003, 12:16 PM

The article centres on CONSUMER upgrades due.

But what about the XServe?

The G5 may still be too hot to shoe-horn into a powerbook, but the XServe may be able to cope. Just need to jam a few extra thermal zones in there.

utilizer

Sep 10, 2003, 12:22 PM

That's exactly what it is.
A PowerBook that converts into a tablet. More than likely the 12 in and 15 in will be offerred in this config. Let's face it: They'll have to enter the tablet arena soon and they have the best technology in-house to do it with. Microsoft seriously miscalculated this one and will pay dearly for it once Apple gets in the game.
Think about the education sector, where this would be a perfect industry application for. And already, Apple leads the way in terms of sales of laptops in the education market.
It just makes sense. :cool:

Stella

Sep 10, 2003, 12:25 PM

Something big is coming I feel... hardware and new software (software other than pather ).

Otherwise why did Apple release the upgraded iMacs this week and not just wait a week and "show them off" at Paris? I'm sure Steve could have done a really good job at how good the iMacs now are - with his reality distortion field! :-)

If you take the view that this isn't a big enough upgrade to iMacs for Parading at Paris, then the same could be said about possible new 15" PB - a slightly faster processor at 1.25Ghz and that have alumuim casing. Whoopie do! To showcase new PBs at Paris and to be taken seriously, they are going to have to be some hefty upgrades.

Powerbook G5

Sep 10, 2003, 12:27 PM

I doubt it's a PDA/tablet kind of thing since Steve himself is pretty vocal on his opinions on the uselessness of Apple coming out with such a device. Besides, since tachyons are a common side effect of cloaking devices, it seems obvious that the new OS built will be needed in order to uncloak the new PowerBook for all to see since when Apple was in initial testing, they must have accidentally cloaked it with no way of finding it afterwards. No wonder why even Apple doesn't know where the new PowerBooks are!

deepkid

Sep 10, 2003, 12:31 PM

edgar_is_good

Sep 10, 2003, 12:32 PM

Seriously - there may be some cool new version of Panther, but tachyon is not it. Tachyon is just the version for the current G5's.

tpjunkie

Sep 10, 2003, 12:35 PM

I like that their code name for the G5 version is a name for a particle that always travels faster than the speed of light

JayBee

Sep 10, 2003, 12:42 PM

Powerbook G5

Sep 10, 2003, 12:47 PM

It's more fun that way:)

Photorun

Sep 10, 2003, 12:52 PM

I wish I could post insults in these forums, I'd rip those with their delusional "G5 Powerbook" fantasies new ones, listen up AIN'T HAPPENING FOR A WHILE! Let it go, stop being a naive idiots!

[composes self]

Ahem, anyways, Tachyon isn't really for new hardware despite what ThinkSecret "speculates" (note people, SPECULATE, not fact), Tachyon is simply the after build of Panther which Apple always begins even before the previous major update goes GM. There are things and tweaks under the hood of the OS that, even if they're aware, can't always roll into builds (I know this having worked for a major software company) so rather than rewrite huge blocks of code, they have to create another build, even while there's another one about to be released. It's more efficient this way, especially as Apple's current Beta of 10.3 is very close to completion, why go in there and muck around now.

As a few people mentioned, Tachyon is most likely simply a fix build with minor tweaks customized for iMacs, or the G4 Powerbooks (G4, NOT G5! Get a clue!) coming out next week that they haven't had time to roll into Panther 10.3. It could even simply be special build enhancement for the G5s, some engineering afterthoughts.

That's it, nothing more, nothing less. Go back, there's nothing to see here.

Tom800

Sep 10, 2003, 12:53 PM

Look here now, you children of the New Beam; it refers to the nimbly dextrous.

utilizer

Sep 10, 2003, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I doubt it's a PDA/tablet kind of thing since Steve himself is pretty vocal on his opinions on the uselessness of Apple coming out with such a device.

What I'm referring to is a convertible PowerBook (laptop>to>tablet and tablet>to>laptop) I've been waiting for this for a long time. If not that, then at least give us duals!

mactastic

Sep 10, 2003, 12:58 PM

Is there any way it could be for an implementation of the Gobi G3? That might fit the iBook timeframe...

pgwalsh

Sep 10, 2003, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Stella
Otherwise why did Apple release the upgraded iMacs this week and not just wait a week and "show them off" at Paris? Not to shoot your down as you may very well be correct. However, I wouldn't go showing off a minor upgrade. It's better to talk and focus on more exciting things like panther and maybe some additions. Maybe another iApp or something too. Seems like it's about time for the Software cycle or a new software app. Who knows.

vannote

Sep 10, 2003, 12:59 PM

whooleytoo

Sep 10, 2003, 01:01 PM

Actually, I think this is a little unusual for Apple.

Apple normally releases periodic "reference" releases, which are compatible with the current hardware range. Any machines released after this, and before the next reference release ships with a modified version of the OS, with those changes being rolled into the next reference release.

Assuming Panther is such a release, the release of the G5s might have been too close to Panther's (though I wouldn't have though so) for full G5 support to be included. Or, more likely, for full G5 optimizations to be included! Hence the extra release.

Mike.

Kid Red

Sep 10, 2003, 01:03 PM

Sounds like Tachyon is just a developer tools CD and I highly doubt any new hardware other then the 15" pbook.

TEG

Sep 10, 2003, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Nemesis
So, Apple will introduce Tachyons...
But, I think that Tachyons can disrupt scanner readings and disrupt force fields... They're also problematic because they're unwanted residue of many cloaking devices and technologies.

Although Tachyons do travel faster than light, and can cause space-sailing ships to travel at warp speeds, they are not dangerous. Also its cronoton particles that are the biproduct of cloaking devices.

Anyway... I've heard Tachyons as two different things reciently. Tachyons can be large computing systems (Usually 2-64 processors) that can be recombined into several, seperately operating computer systems, controlled by software. Also, Tachyons are large cabinents of Disk storage. Multi-Terra-Byte Harddrive RAIDS some as big as a room (Think of the Computer room from "Patriot Games"

With that data, I believe that either Apple is upping the ante in the Xserve business, adding more powerful and larger Xserves, maybe a 5U system with a standard style Xserve on top and 8 or 9 specally designed 1/2U Node systems that can run as several different Servers.
Another Idea is an Xserve RAID that is several times the current capacity. Residing in a large cabnet, and "Tachyon" is the control system.

Now off the Deep End:
Tachyon is a new system for Cellphones or PocketPCs
Tachyon is OSX for Cluster Systems, allowing for greater Flexability in Server Envrionments
Tachyon is the system designed to run Kiosks... Like ATMs, Infocenters, Cars, etc.

That's all I got now..

TEG

cubist

Sep 10, 2003, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by Kid Red
Sounds like Tachyon is just a developer tools CD and I highly doubt any new hardware other then the 15" pbook.

That's what I thought from the quote. Maybe it's Xcode. (How come nobody is talking about Xcode?!)

greenstork

Sep 10, 2003, 01:12 PM

I sure will miss the LOTR codenames :rolleyes:

vannote

Sep 10, 2003, 01:17 PM

Wonder Boy

Sep 10, 2003, 01:20 PM

This is interesting. When do you all think G5's will ship with Tachyon or "the" Panther?

SiliconAddict

Sep 10, 2003, 01:27 PM

SEE! This proves that a G5 laptop is going to be released next week!!
[Tongue firmly planted in cheek]

:o Sorry. Had to be the first one to chime in on this thread about G5 laptops. ;)

jamesatzones

Sep 10, 2003, 01:30 PM

I hope next week in Paris Apple has a ship date, like it's ready next week. That would be good...

arn

Sep 10, 2003, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by edgar_is_good
http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn2086.html

edit: See under "Getting the right tools"

"There are three main developer tools components you will want to install to get setup for G5 tuning. The Tachyon 1.0 Developer Preview CD can also be used, although since that tools release is not yet final, it will not be the focus of this technote."

I think this is just Panther for the _current_ G5 boxes.

Thanks for the link.... but still doesn't entirely make sense.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1136018,00.asp

"the Tachyon development environment version 6K452. This provides the appropriate development tools for generating the SPEC binaries and installs Apple's version of the GCC compiler (version 3.3 build 1379) on the test system.""

So, this is just new development tools for the G5? You think someone just got confused?

Or, is it true, true, and unrelated?

Because... Panther Final will run on the G5's. It's not like Apple will release it with a big warning on the box - Does Not Run on G5 PowerMacs. So, its not likely they are working on a PowerMac G5 specific version after gold master of Panther.

arn

edgar_is_good

Sep 10, 2003, 01:52 PM

It does appear that it is just some sort of piece of the development tools, but my read is that it is part of the panther development specifically for the G5. I don't know anything more than I try to get out of these articles, but it doesn't seem like any indication of new hardware - do you think differently?

That doesn't mean there won't be new hardware, right?

jettredmont

Sep 10, 2003, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by arn
Thanks for the link.... but still doesn't entirely make sense.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1136018,00.asp

"the Tachyon development environment version 6K452. This provides the appropriate development tools for generating the SPEC binaries and installs Apple's version of the GCC compiler (version 3.3 build 1379) on the test system.""

So, this is just new development tools for the G5? You think someone just got confused?

Tachyon as described above is a Jaguar-compatible (possibly Panther-compatible) build of the gcc toolset with G5 support.

You do not need Tachyon to build G5-compatible software; you need it to build G5-optimized software.

You also do not need Tachyon for the OS to run properly; it is a developer tool release, not an OS release.

Or, is it true, true, and unrelated?

Because... Panther Final will run on the G5's. It's not like Apple will release it with a big warning on the box - Does Not Run on G5 PowerMacs. So, its not likely they are working on a PowerMac G5 specific version after gold master of Panther.

arn

One can deduce that Apple will release, as they always have in the past, updates to the system OS which will support any new system controller chip in new hardware.

The addition of the "codename" of Tachyon was either someone's brain-fart or someone deciding they needed a code name to lend credence to that which simple logic would tell you anyways.

Loopy

Sep 10, 2003, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by edgar_is_good
It does appear that it is just some sort of piece of the development tools, but my read is that it is part of the panther development specifically for the G5. I don't know anything more than I try to get out of these articles, but it doesn't seem like any indication of new hardware - do you think differently?

That doesn't mean there won't be new hardware, right?

if there is new hardware next week i.e.. G5PB .... panther must run on them all ready.

daveL

Sep 10, 2003, 02:15 PM

Hmmm... So maybe the initial Panther release is a generic build for G3/G4/G5 (yes, I know there are some G5-specific libraries include for better math performance, etc. and, obviously, G5 hardware support). Then Tachyon is a Panther point release that recompiles the kernel with the latest gcc G5 optimizations (from the Tachyon development tools). This approach would allow Apple to concentrate on getting Panther solid first and then worry about G5 optimizations.

Just a though.

jaesk8er

Sep 10, 2003, 02:39 PM

"YEAR OF THE LAP TOP" this year is getting closer to the end and we have not seen anything

tpjunkie

Sep 10, 2003, 03:00 PM

Well, obviously that is why Apple is working on with tachyons. Apples newest hardware will be accelerated to hyper-C speeds and thus travel backwards in time to the early part of this year. Soon the timeline will straighten itself out and you will no longer retain memories of any of this. :p ;)

pgwalsh

Sep 10, 2003, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by jaesk8er
"YEAR OF THE LAP TOP" this year is getting closer to the end and we have not seen anything I think that statement was essentially saying that there's not going to be any major desktops released this year, which there was, but they shipped in the third quarter.

So I think Steve was saying that if you're looking for something right now, don't wait cause you'll be waiting a long time. Buy a laptop and be happy until we get our ***** together.

He wanted to get the focus off desktops beacuse they had nothing to offer.

Freg3000

Sep 10, 2003, 03:19 PM

:( I want to pretend like this means G5 PowerBooks somehow. But I can't.

Seems like nothing too exciting.:confused:

Loopy

Sep 10, 2003, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by pgwalsh
I think that statement was essentially saying that there's not going to be any major desktops released this year, which there was, but they shipped in the third quarter.

So I think Steve was saying that if you're looking for something right now, don't wait cause you'll be waiting a long time. Buy a laptop and be happy until we get our ***** together.

He wanted to get the focus off desktops beacuse they had nothing to offer.

yep I'll go with that.

hose this!

Sep 10, 2003, 04:03 PM

I'm taking this to be another sign that G5 PowerBooks will be announced (read: not shipping 'anytime in the near future' yah Jos).

Here's my reasoning:

Software development has to coincide with hardware development (well, it doesn't HAVE to, but Apple seem pretty good about co-developing their platform). Because of Moto's production delays (out of Apple's control), software development (in Apple's control) has outstripped hardware development.

At some point, maybe a month or so ago, Apple decided that they were better off pre-announcing a G5 Powerbook in Paris even though it probably won't ship until December. Announcing a minor speed-bumped G4 would just be too little, too late. I mean, they could announce a new G4, but I think Apple are quite aware that it wouldn't generate much excitement.

I mean really, could you imagine Steve Jobs having waited to announce the the new iMacs at Paris? Completely underwhelming. At this point, a G4 update for Powerbooks would produce the same chorus of yawns that the new iMacs have.

My prediction: Steve announces G5 Powerbooks at Paris. Publicly declared shipping date: December 2003. Actual shipping date acknowledged in Cupertino Star Chamber: Feb 2004 (hah! those suckers - we've got them hooked. We can delay the delayed shipping dates by another couple of months and they'll still buy from us! Ahh, the priveleges of a loyal fan base)

It just seems as though the OS development is proceeding at a pace that would place a very short shelf-life on G4 products. I would think Apple would not want to contine development of a non 64-bit enhanced OSX much further and would look to move the G5 across all product lines fairly quickly.

mainstreetmark

Sep 10, 2003, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by TEG

Now off the Deep End:
Tachyon is a new system for Cellphones or PocketPCs
Tachyon is OSX for Cluster Systems, allowing for greater Flexability in Server Envrionments
Tachyon is the system designed to run Kiosks... Like ATMs, Infocenters, Cars, etc.

That's all I got now..

TEG

http://www.googlism.com/index.htm?ism=tachyon&type=2

tachyon is worth the extra ten dollars
tachyon is far from bad
tachyon is a sure thing
hyon is imaginary

CMillerERAU

Sep 10, 2003, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by Nemesis
So, Apple will introduce Tachyons...
But, I think that Tachyons can disrupt scanner readings and disrupt force fields... They're also problematic because they're unwanted residue of many cloaking devices and technologies.

Perhaps they will use the tackyon's time-space properties to speed up the clock cycle on G4s? Though I'd be concerned that they might get the temporal shielding right and we'll all exposed to temporal radiation making the computer do the same process over and over. :D

SeaFox

Sep 10, 2003, 05:22 PM

Okay, I know this may seem like a dumb question, but now that we know the Tachyon is a name for the developer's tools, does that change the ThinkSecret story any?

I mean, is Apple actually workig on a modified Panther for release with a new product (I think new iBooks in this case)? Or was DePlume simply writing about Apple's developer tools work and didn't realize this is what they call them, instaed thinking it was a code name for an OSX version they were discussing.

hvfsl

Sep 10, 2003, 06:18 PM

Tachyon is a good name for a cpu. Maybe Apple could start calling their chips tachyon chips when they get board of G numbers.

arn

Sep 10, 2003, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by SeaFox
Okay, I know this may seem like a dumb question, but now that we know the Tachyon is a name for the developer's tools, does that change the ThinkSecret story any?

I mean, is Apple actually workig on a modified Panther for release with a new product (I think new iBooks in this case)? Or was DePlume simply writing about Apple's developer tools work and didn't realize this is what they call them, instaed thinking it was a code name for an OSX version they were discussing.

It probably does change the story... but we don't know in what way.

Is Tachyon (the name) the correct part? or is there an OS X update being worked on, and it was mistakenly labeled as Tachyon?

arn

wms121

Sep 10, 2003, 06:31 PM

Found this rummaging around the net..nice little cross-assembler for IBM z and old 390 codes:

http://www.tachyonsoft.com/txaover.html

Also guys..if you are going to write code for a "fast 64 bit Java2 server"..you might want some 128 bit cache in that G5..right now there ain't any...

<--waiting for Big Al to change his mind..

GregGomer

Sep 10, 2003, 06:53 PM

Can you say New Display.

That's my guess, as it would need to support the buttons and functions of the new display. In fact in the old days, the displays came with software to install for older versions of OS X. So it would make sense if instead they just put the new software in the new Panther builds.

Stella

Sep 10, 2003, 07:20 PM

What Steve meant by this statement is that Laptops sales will sigificantly increase. Nothing more, nothing less.

He said what the meaning of this was during the Jan Keynote speech, unfortunately, people have got carried away and forgotten this.

Originally posted by jaesk8er
"YEAR OF THE LAP TOP" this year is getting closer to the end and we have not seen anything

Dai Bando

Sep 10, 2003, 08:23 PM

so, could the delay delivering G5 chips in desktops be the reason why powerbooks are also delayed? Spreading 'the butter' alittle thin on our bread? And the Tibook form factor changed (ala 12 & 17) to accomodate added cooling? Educate me.

GigaWire

Sep 10, 2003, 08:53 PM

page 2 all the way

Powerbook G5

Sep 10, 2003, 10:23 PM

If the G5 PowerBooks were to come, they should be codenamed "The Borg" because they'd come to bring order to the chaos that is our miserable rumor-crazed lives once and for all. When they did come out, trust me, resistance would most assuredly be futile.

windwaves

Sep 10, 2003, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by Stella
Something big is coming I feel... hardware and new software (software other than pather ).

Otherwise why did Apple release the upgraded iMacs this week and not just wait a week and "show them off" at Paris? .

Because there is absolutely nothing to show off about these upgrades !!!!!! It would have been the greatest disappointment at the Paris show.

Stella

Sep 10, 2003, 10:49 PM

And I also put the below.

If you take the view that this isn't a big enough upgrade to iMacs for Parading at Paris, then the same could be said about possible new 15" PB - a slightly faster processor at 1.25Ghz and that have alumuim casing. Whoopie do! To showcase new PBs at Paris and to be taken seriously, they are going to have to be some hefty upgrades.

Seriously, adding a different case and a few bits and pieces doesn't mean a lot. The Al-15" PB isn't going to be a great upgrade.. probably, still a G4. However, it would be very welcome for the demand.. but still, not significant upgrade, until the G5 PB comes..

Originally posted by windwaves
Because there is absolutely nothing to show off about these upgrades !!!!!! It would have been the greatest disappointment at the Paris show.

chazmox

Sep 11, 2003, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by Freg3000
:( I want to pretend like this means G5 PowerBooks somehow. But I can't.

Seems like nothing too exciting.:confused:

LOTR character names are for G5 system enabling updates.

Thinksecret reported that the version of 10.2.7 being prepared for the new Powerbooks was called Blackrider ( http://www.thinksecret.com/news/augustpowerbooks.html ).

I always find it VERY interesting when unrelated rumors cross like this!!!

mvc

Sep 11, 2003, 04:52 AM

Originally posted by tpjunkie
Well, obviously that is why Apple is working on with tachyons. Apples newest hardware will be accelerated to hyper-C speeds and thus travel backwards in time to the early part of this year. Soon the timeline will straighten itself out and you will no longer retain memories of any of this. :p ;)

No, I think they are using tachyons because Steves Reality Distortion field will be completely maxed out to keep everyone utterly happy with whatever tidbits are announced at Paris, and the on-stage computers will be so close to him they will need to run at twice the speed of light just to work at all…:p