PowerBooks in Paris?

[MacRumors]

AppleInsider updates (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=137) with claims that PowerPC 7457 processors are finally in good supply and that PowerBook G4s will ("positively confirmed") arrive at Apple Expo Paris which should bring the 15" model to 1.25GHz with USB 2.0, Firewire 800 and side ports.

12" and 17" Model updates are possible, but less certain, according to the rumor site.

A few recent Page 2 rumors (http://page2.macrumors.com) have recently surfaced offering their own details about potential PowerBook upgrades -- with dissenting reports (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030909131732.shtml) about potential PowerBook releases in Paris

The full collection of PowerBook Rumors (http://powerbook.macrumors.com/) are available on our archive page.

[codemother]

I'd really expected a G5 PB now.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

C.

[Chaszmyr]

I sure hope we see powerbooks at Paris... It would be silly to update the 15'' to make it faster than the 17'', though... I cant imagine they updating one without the other.

[hs-l]

and the 12"?? I'll be there in Paris,..
but i'm waiting for the new "thinner" 12"

I really hope that one gets updated too!!

HS-L

[neonart]

I agree all three will be updated. The 12" and 17" are due as well for an update.

*I'd love to see the 12 get a 1Ghz with L3 at least.

[killmoms]

PowerBook rumor for the week? Check.

Move along folks, nothing to see (or comment on) here.

[asphalt-proof]

I guess I was secretly hoping for a G5 with the idea of the por line being g5 and the consumer line being G4. If not, I'll still buy one. Hopefully this will pan out.

Hey, maybe this is part of Steve's Reality Distortion Field! This is supposed to be the Year of the Laptop. Maybe he's highlighting the inherent uncertainty of making global statements. Or is this too post-modern? :D

Seriously something must being going very wrong for there to be this long a lag between updates. For what, a speed bump and light-up keyboard? A a reasonably intelligent chimp with an Etch-Sketch and a Lightbright could have knock together this over the weekend.

[SiliconAddict]

Ugh. Wouldn’t Apple HAVE to update the 17” since its their top of the line? Then again the 15” is the sweet spot of laptops right now and it does look like they have to pick and choose where to put these new chips sparingly
Please don’t hurt me for saying this ;)
It wouldn’t be all that difficult to imagine them holding off on the 17” PB until spring and going straight to G5’s on the 17” and 15”.

[QuiteSure]

I am skeptical of the PB update rumors for MW Paris. I just don't see Steve Jobs making a major product announcement while his major target buyers -- US consumers -- are asleep.

[Stella]

Dual G4 PB, PB in Paris, Motorolla can't deliver the processors, Apple have to use 1.25GHz instead.

Rumour sites just haven't a clue, really.

These aren't rumours, a pure guessing game!! :-)

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by asphalt-proof
Seriously something must being going very wrong for there to be this long a lag between updates. For what, a speed bump and light-up keyboard? A a reasonably intelligent chimp with an Etch-Sketch and a Lightbright could have knock together this over the weekend.

Ya its called Moto.

[Photorun]

Yaaawwwwn.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Next?!?

[MacsRgr8]

That'll be cool.
I'm gonna be there, so I hope Steve can show them off!
:)

[hobbes3113]

Originally posted by Photorun
Yaaawwwwn.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Next?!?

I can't agree more. I think it's safe to say that nobody really knows what will happen in Paris. Well, except maybe Steve...

[F/reW/re]

If 1.25GHz is all, Apple better lower thoose prices! A notebook with 3GHz costs half the price of a 15" PowerBook!

[chazmox]

Arn,

You reported earlier that G5 enabling SW was code-named with LOTR's characters.

From AppleInsider...

Upon arrival, the laptops will be met by Apple engineers who will update their system software to the recently finalized version of Mac OS X 10.2.7 Blackrider.



How significant is this???

[beelzeben]

QuiteSure
I am skeptical of the PB update rumors for MW Paris. I just don't see Steve Jobs making a major product announcement while his major target buyers -- US consumers -- are asleep.

Maybe showing more interest in the rest of the world would help lessen their dependency on the US.

Might be some good PR to do this in France especially considering recent events ;)

[jxyama]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
If 1.25GHz is all, Apple better lower thoose prices! A notebook with 3GHz costs half the price of a 15" PowerBook!

oh geez, don't get people started...

what use is comparing P4 to G4 on a PB update thread?

[hmmm]

PBs are out of stock at good UK suppliers and I've heard that 'the new PBs will (should, maybe...) be announced on Monday' – here’s hoping, now I just hope they can deliver on time...

[jocknerd]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
If 1.25GHz is all, Apple better lower thoose prices! A notebook with 3GHz costs half the price of a 15" PowerBook!

Apple doesn't care that their 15" PowerBook costs twice as much as an Intel based while running twice as slow. Apple only wants you to compare it to the previous version of the PowerBook. That way, they can justify the cost. Thats how they could justify the price increase on the PowerMacs with the introduction of the G5. Whereas the rest of the world has PC prices coming down, Apple raised theirs.

If the previous PowerMac ran a 867mhz processor and cost $2500 and the new one uses a 1.25ghz processor and costs the same, Apple expects you to see that its a good deal.
Nevermind that a Dell or Sony 15" with a 3ghz processor and the same specs could possibly be around $1999. Apple has tunnel vision. They never look outside their world. And it actually seems to be working for them. They are profitable. And only Dell can say that besides Apple.

[Omek]

Originally posted by chazmox
Arn,

You reported earlier that G5 enabling SW was code-named with LOTR's characters.



How significant is this???

Ya, I remember hearing that as well. I believe it even came from ThinkSecret. And they're usually dead on. Pllleeeeaassseee.... G5 G5.... :(

[mmmbop]

Originally posted by QuiteSure
I am skeptical of the PB update rumors for MW Paris. I just don't see Steve Jobs making a major product announcement while his major target buyers -- US consumers -- are asleep.

Hey, the US will wake up to the great news that new laptops are available down at the mall. Have your breakfast and drive on down to pick one up right away.

We in Europe normally have to sweat out the day before the early evening Steve-o Show at MWSF and WWDC.

I think Apple updated their European online stores before the US store for last week's product updates. Is that a first? Ok, it was close, but we're only talking minutes/hours here.

It's all dollars to Apple, at the end of the day.

MARK

edit: the iMac/iPod updates were this week, right? I'm on holiday and have lost all concept of time...

[Stella]

How very self centred.
:)
Originally posted by QuiteSure
I am skeptical of the PB update rumors for MW Paris. I just don't see Steve Jobs making a major product announcement while his major target buyers -- US consumers -- are asleep.

[srobert]

Originally posted by QuiteSure
I am skeptical of the PB update rumors for MW Paris. I just don't see Steve Jobs making a major product announcement while his major target buyers -- US consumers -- are asleep.

The vast majority of his target consumers don't even watch the live keynote. Also, I think that international orders amount to about half of apple's sales. Apple expo Paris could be the right place to announce a new product. Otherwise, there really isn't much events left beside San-Francisco.

My 2 Cents.

[justytylor]

Chazmox wondered if the codename of 10.2.7 Blackrider meant that the PBs would be G5s. As did Omek below:

Originally posted by Omek
Ya, I remember hearing that as well. I believe it even came from ThinkSecret. And they're usually dead on. Pllleeeeaassseee.... G5 G5.... :(

AFAIK:

10.2.7 Smeagol is 10.2.7 for G5s.
10.2.7 Blackrider is 10.2.7 for all other Macs.

Hope that helps.

[mvc]

Originally posted by Stella
How very self centred.
:)

Yep, they don't spell it US for nothing. Its THEM and U.S.

But hey, that's another thread…

I predict G5 (1.25 GHz?) powerbooks (at least 15"or 17" or both) as the next update, probably announced next week, probably actually unavailable until December.

There, stuck my neck out, if I'm wrong I'll get my iBook folding as well as penance.

Or maybe Photorun can rip me a new one like he promised! :rolleyes:

[the future]

Originally posted by jocknerd Apple doesn't care that their 15" PowerBook costs twice as much as an Intel based while running twice as slow. Apple only wants you to compare it to the previous version of the PowerBook. That way, they can justify the cost. Thats how they could justify the price increase on the PowerMacs with the introduction of the G5. Whereas the rest of the world has PC prices coming down, Apple raised theirs.

Yawn...x86 laptops not nearly twice as fast...nowhere near half as cheap with comparable components...powerbook very light and thin...gorgeous design...firewire 800...airport extreme...backlit keyboard...OS X...mac prices stable/slightly decreasing, not increasing...blame Moto...G5 powerbooks will wipe the floor with the competition next year...yawn.

[jxyama]

Originally posted by jocknerd
If the previous PowerMac ran a 867mhz processor and cost $2500 and the new one uses a 1.25ghz processor and costs the same, Apple expects you to see that its a good deal.

it isn't a good deal? :D

should intel sell a p4 laptop cheaper because there are cheaper laptops with celeron at the same clockspeed?

[arn]

Originally posted by chazmox
Arn,

You reported earlier that G5 enabling SW was code-named with LOTR's characters.

How significant is this???

Not as significant as AppleInsider explcitly saying G4 PowerBooks.

arn

[Mr. Anderson]

I'm really curious now how well the sales of PowerBooks will be with the G5 out now in PowerMacs. How many people will be waiting a year or so until they hope to see a G5 in the PowerBooks......

I'm not in the market for a new PowerBook, but I think I'd wait until I couldn't any longer if I were to buy a G4 version...

D

[srobert]

Originally posted by mvc
Yep, they don't spell it US for nothing. Its THEM and U.S.

Danger Mvc Robinson! Danger!

[chazmox]

Originally posted by justytylor
Chazmox wondered if the codename of 10.2.7 Blackrider meant that the PBs would be G5s. As did Omek below:



AFAIK:

10.2.7 Smeagol is 10.2.7 for G5s.
10.2.7 Blackrider is 10.2.7 for all other Macs.

Hope that helps.

Are you sure about this? MacRumors reported with some confidence that LOTR character names were reserved for G% enabling SW updates.

I'm not one who really believes in the G5 PB's although it maybe a possibility. But I find it really interesting when two seemingly unrelated rumors cross...

[hvfsl]

I just hope they only use ATI graphics cards in the powerbooks, the Nvidia ones are too slow.

[xtekdiver]

Originally posted by arn
Not as significant as AppleInsider explcitly saying G4 PowerBooks.

arn

Nothing significant here, they are just guessing. Reviewing all the PB rumors over the last year makes it clear no one knows what is going on. It's going to be a lower MHz G5; Moto is history. Everyone will be shocked and in awe of Job's distortion field.

[mactastic]

Powerbook rumors? Wow, I'm having serious deja vu... I swear I saw this rumor somewhere before!:D

Can't wait to see what happens in Paris. Something is up, this is the year of the laptop, and the updated iMacs and iPods were quietly announced this week. If there was nothing better than that, they would have saved those for Paris. And SJ wouldn't be making the keynote.... Something's afoot methinks. I doubt it's a G5 PB, but maybe a new iApp, along with faster G4 'books. Maybe the iPod periphal, whatever the hell that turns out to be. I'm sure I'll need one though.

Basking in the reality distortion field....

[centauratlas]

Originally posted by xtekdiver
It's going to be a lower MHz G5; Moto is history. Everyone will be shocked and in awe of Job's distortion field.

That would be a nice surprise! All these rumors every week failing to pan out just shows (as you said) no one will know until next week or the week after or the week after or.........

I just will be happy when (a) the PB is updated, and (b) when it is update to a G5. That way all the rumors will stop for a bit! ;-)

[QuiteSure]

Originally posted by srobert
The vast majority of his target consumers don't even watch the live keynote. Also, I think that international orders amount to about half of apple's sales. Apple expo Paris could be the right place to announce a new product. Otherwise, there really isn't much events left beside San-Francisco.

My 2 Cents.

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see PBs at MW Paris. I really don't care where great Apple products are announced, and I agree that it may be a superb PR move to announce them in Europe.

I just don't think it's going to happen for the reasons I stated.

[Armsreach]

Originally posted by mvc
Yep, they don't spell it US for nothing. Its THEM and U.S.

There was an onion article about that this week. I'm assuming you referenced it. If not, quite amusing none the less.

[Sratner]

I just can't believe that they are still lingering on the g4 ..... I can't imagine buying a new powerbook right now, knowing that the g5 is in towers.... kills me to think that.. there might and should be a g5 powerbook within 6 months.. Its the worst time to be in the market for a new powerbook....

clinging on to my Ti g4 500mhz... for a bit longer...

[Frobozz]

Why would Apple update 1 of 3 models? I guess the new models made sens a while back but they should homongenize the product line already! So now my choices are an 867 12", a 1.25 Ghz 15", and a 1.0 Ghz 17". That's making the 17" look awfulling sluggish in the price/performance department...

Eh, I'm waiting for the G5 laptops anyway.

[hmmm]

I'm just looking forward to the rumours stopping, my new updated PB to arrive (either G4 or G5 will suffice) and to go back to my normal rumour free life a happy man – although I am enjoying the hype :)

[tomf87]

Originally posted by the future
Yawn...x86 laptops not nearly twice as fast...nowhere near half as cheap with comparable components...powerbook very light and thin...gorgeous design...firewire 800...airport extreme...backlit keyboard...OS X...mac prices stable/slightly decreasing, not increasing...blame Moto...G5 powerbooks will wipe the floor with the competition next year...yawn.

I have to agree about the price not being half as cheap. My employer spent $3200 on some high end Compaq notebooks. I am trying to push for a PB instead.

However, I really don't see a value in the backlit keyboard. It's a wow feature at first, then becomes just a battery drainer. I use my current Compaq laptop all the time in the dark. I find the keys just fine. Even if I couldn't, the screen gives off enough light that I could do it anyway.

As for Airport Extreme, when do you think they'll update this to support A/B/G? There are several vendors that supply cards that will do this in the PC world. It would be nice for Apple to do the same for their portables. At least you could connect anywhere an AP exists.

[Armsreach]

I must say, this whole PB fiasco is becoming great. Seriously, weekly, everyone contradicts themselves.

When I first started reading various mac rumors sites I thought they were actual news sources. (seriously, I did, I was naive). However, now I realize that this is just an amazingly geeky form of entertainment. I now know why those people who buy the national enquirer at the checkout lines buy them.

And to the people who live and die by rumors, whoa....

just whoa.....


(we do need an upgrade though sometime soon. My wife wants a PB but is getting sick of waiting.)

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
If 1.25GHz is all, Apple better lower thoose prices! A notebook with 3GHz costs half the price of a 15" PowerBook!

Whew... have you BEEN to Mac rumor sites in the past 2 years. There's this thing called the MHz myth. 3GHz What? A 1 Ghz G4 Powerbook is usually faster, by design, than anything in the PC world. Their laptops are crippled in many respects. Price is usually about the same for (somewhat) comparable performance (in the Mac's favor).

:-)

[tomf87]

Originally posted by Frobozz
Whew... have you BEEN to Mac rumor sites in the past 2 years. There's this thing called the MHz myth. 3GHz What? A 1 Ghz G4 Powerbook is usually faster, by design, than anything in the PC world. Their laptops are crippled in many respects. Price is usually about the same for (somewhat) comparable performance (in the Mac's favor).

:-)

That's correct. There's even a battle in the PC world with Intel and AMD. AMD resorted to different branding of their procs because their proc has the same performance of the Intel counterpart, even though the speed isn't identical.

Same goes for the Mac proc's.

[Lancetx]

Personally, I couldn't care less about the 15" to be honest. However, I will be somewhat disappointed if the 12" doesn't get at least a modest update. They at least need a minor refresh to bump it up to 1GHz at the minimum, plus also add a L3 cache and USB 2.0/FW 800 even if they do nothing else to it.

[esheep2001]

If Apple can only muster 1.25 or 1.3 G4's in Paris then they're in serious trouble. They've missed the back to school crowds and everyone wanting pro power will either have gone for the new G5 or are waiting on G5 power books.

If they've made major changes then I just hope that they can re-use the chasis for the new G5 pbooks 'cos they aint gonna sell a lot of G4s I reckon. Quite frankly if G5 pbooks are say 6 months away (as most people expect they are) then Apple would be daft to try and do any major overhauls of the current line. So, with that in mind my prediction is:

12" - No changes (no, not even 1G as the heat would be too much)
15" - Al (but only 'cos they've got a back lot of cases to clear) 1 & 1.25 (or 1.3) FW800, BT, etc. (as per 17")
17" - New top end of 1.25 or 1.3, no physical changes.

I'm assuming that the higher clock processors will slot into existing motherboards, if they don't then I don't expect any changes at all with the exception of the Al 15" simply because it won't be worth the investement required for a measley 6 month production run.

I'm prepared for a very underwhelming Paris expo, unless of course the old 7x5 inch plastic enclosure rumours start surfacing again and they produce the vPod :-)

e.

[QuiteSure]

Originally posted by Armsreach
However, now I realize that this is just an amazingly geeky form of entertainment. I now know why those people who buy the national enquirer at the checkout lines buy them.

And to the people who live and die by rumors, whoa....

just whoa.....


(we do need an upgrade though sometime soon. My wife wants a PB but is getting sick of waiting.)

If you didn't read rumor sites your wife would have bought her Tibook and would be enjoying it very much right now. ;)

[Bruja]

Originally posted by QuiteSure
I am skeptical of the PB update rumors for MW Paris. I just don't see Steve Jobs making a major product announcement while his major target buyers -- US consumers -- are asleep. I'm sorry but I believe that the majority of the target users are in Asia..But, they're mainly ibooks.


edited by Bruja 2 secons affter :^)

[mvc]

Originally posted by srobert
Danger Mvc Robinson! Danger!

Why, do you think Mr Bush will be re-targetting the missile silos to my house now?

We may tease all you charmingly one eyed Americans down here (and across the pond), but we luv em really, cos they bring mucho dollars touristo!

;)

[hmmm]

Originally posted by mvc
Why, are they re-targetting the missile silos to my house now?

Now, now ladies, stop bickering :D

[theRebel]

$2,004 Dell Inspiron 5150
3GHz Pentium® 4 MOBILE processor
15.1" LCD
256MB 333MHz SDRAM (2 DIMMs)
40GB Ultra ATA 4200RPM Hard Drive
CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive
32MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200
10/100 Ethernet
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Dell Jukebox powered by MUSICMATCH
Dell Picture Studio
Dell Movie Studio Essentials


$1999 Powerbook
867MHz PowerPC G4 with 1MB L3 cache
15.2" LCD
256MB SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA/66
CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive
32MB DDR ATI Mobility Radeon 9000
10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet
Mac OS X
iMovie, iPhoto, iTunes, iCal, iChat, Art Directors Toolkit, GraphicConverter, OmniGraffle, OmniOutliner, QuickBooks for Mac, etc

Most definitely not half the price.

I suppose you could try to argue that a 3Ghz P4 MOBILE processor is twice as fast as a 867Mhz G4, but I think you would lose the argument. If we were talking about a 3Ghz P4 desktop processor then that would be one thing, this is a P4 Mobile processor and they pretty much suck.

The "twice the price" claim is just simply absurd. Even if you were talking about the 1GHz G4 15" Powerbook with 512MB RAM, 60GB Ultra ATA/66 HD, SuperDrive, and 64MB DDR ATI Mobility Radeon 9000, the price is still only $2,599 which is no where near "twice the price" of the $2004 Dell. Heck, the $3,299 17" Powerbook is not twice the price either!

Argue all that you want about being able to buy a PC laptop that is faster than the fastest Powerbook, but please stop trying to claim that the Powerbooks are so much more expensive. It just simply is not true.

[tomf87]

Originally posted by theRebel
[b]
...
Even if you were talking about the 1GHz G4 15" Powerbook with 512MB RAM, 60GB Ultra ATA/66 HD...

This brings up the one feature I would like to see in a 15" PB soon... Ultra ATA/100

Anyone agree or have comments? I'm all about having more bandwidth for disk I/O at relatively no increase in cost or heat...

[Bengt77]

Originally posted by xtekdiver
It's going to be a lower MHz G5; Moto is history. Everyone will be shocked and in awe of Job's distortion field.

Because then, ther will be loads of very happy customers. And hopefully some (lots of?) new to Apple.

[Bruja]

Wow.. I think we just got schmacked by Kangaroo Jack!! Adimas, somos amigos!! (nevertheless, were friends)

[Bengt77]

Originally posted by centauratlas
That way all the rumors will stop for a bit! ;-)

Very much not so; the rumours will never stop!

:p

[mmmbop]

Originally posted by esheep2001
I'm prepared for a very underwhelming Paris expo, unless of course the old 7x5 inch plastic enclosure rumours start surfacing again and they produce the vPod :-)

e.

Sounds good to me. iPods are so, like, last week. Bring on the vPods :D

I guess the G5 powerbook would be coming too soon after the desktop. I'm sure Apple would like to save the premium margin a G5 powerbook would bring in for their next financial quarter, as this one already looks like a bumper for them. The G4s will sell alright. Keep big revenues consistent across the year.

[arn]

Originally posted by xtekdiver
Nothing significant here, they are just guessing. Reviewing all the PB rumors over the last year makes it clear no one knows what is going on.

I wasn't saying that it was significant perse... but more significant than any "reading between the lines" that was going on about G5 PowerBooks. See what I was replying to.

As for guessing vs not.... if you really believe every site is just guessing... you should stop reading rumor sites.

It's clear that leaks do occur and that there is real information out there. People just need to stop believing every little thing from questionable sites.

If you aren't able to filter the rumors for yourself... I suggest you stop listening to macwhispers, powerpage, looprumors and much of macbidouille, etc.... :)

arn

[DrGruv1]

looking for G5 powerbooks (not going to happen till jan or later.. my guess)

and

ibooks go to the G4

then what is the price?

$2100 G5 powerbook
$1200 G4 ibook

???????

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by Cless
PowerBook rumor for the week? Check.

Move along folks, nothing to see (or comment on) here.

Almost.

One rumor says processors are in adequate supply, presumably just for the few 15" PB's that Apple will sell in the next 3 months or so after a release.

Another rumor says 15" LCD's in short supply. So was it caused by an Apple surge order, or has Apple hoarded enough for their relatively small 15 PB sales, or is Apple such a small player that even during shortage they can get what they need?

I use a 15" PB as my primary computer. I strongly suggest others do the same.

Rocketman

[QuiteSure]

I think the most exciting announcements at MW Paris will be software announcements:

Ship date for Panther
Ship date for iTMS Windows
Availability of iTMS Europe

[tomf87]

Originally posted by Rocketman
...

I use a 15" PB as my primary computer. I strongly suggest others do the same.

Rocketman

-Rocketman

How long have you used your PB? I heard one gentleman say their new PB's last only about a year before needing repair. He stated the case would crack or something along those lines.

[the future]

Originally posted by esheep2001
I'm prepared for a very underwhelming Paris expo, unless of course the old 7x5 inch plastic enclosure rumours start surfacing again and they produce the vPod :-) e.

All right! Bring on the vPod rumors! I had all but forgotten about that mysterious enclosure...

[xDANx]

Originally posted by justytylor
Chazmox wondered if the codename of 10.2.7 Blackrider meant that the PBs would be G5s. As did Omek below:



AFAIK:

10.2.7 Smeagol is 10.2.7 for G5s.
10.2.7 Blackrider is 10.2.7 for all other Macs.

Hope that helps.

i was at a demo of the G5 put on by apple canada in montreal last night...they said that 10.2.7 contains absolutely no improvements over 10.2.6...no bug fixes, no new features, only support for G5 hardware. they basically said that 10.2.6 is it for non-G5 hardware until 10.3. whether or not that means that 'blackrider' is for G5 powerbooks, i have no idea. but unless smeagol already includes support for the mythical powerbook G5 hardware then it's reasonable to assume that another version of 10.2.7 would be needed.

[srobert]

Originally posted by xDANx
i was at a demo of the G5 put on by apple canada in montreal last night...

Wait! There was a demo in my town and I missed it? Where anybody allowed to attend? Where was it? bMac?

[xDANx]

Originally posted by srobert
Wait! There was a demo in my town and I missed it? Where anybody allowed to attend? Where was it? bMac?

it was out at the apple canada offices in montreal (near where the 40 and henri-bourassa cross) and it was mostly (or maybe all) authorized apple dealers there. i work for b.mac and decided to go.

[duffman9000]

Originally posted by tomf87
-Rocketman

How long have you used your PB? I heard one gentleman say their new PB's last only about a year before needing repair. He stated the case would crack or something along those lines.

I've had my first gen PBG4 since it's debut and besides the hinges becoming lose and the LCD screen needing repair for a pixel problem, it's been pretty sturdy. The only other gripe is the paint. Yeah it could scratch but it's been 2 1/2 years and it's still looks nice.
As for the next PB's, the G5 Powerbooks will not be seen until next year, unless Apple surprises us by using underclocked G5's (1-1.3 GHz?). Since Moto is pretty much dead in the water now i expect IBM to manufacturer all of Apple's CPU's. It has been discussed before that IBM's G3 can be faster than than Moto's G4, but how would Apple market this? These G3's are available to future iBook owners as soon as a faster "G4" finds it's way into the PB's.
I hate Motorola. The day of giving them the Boot is almost at hand.
Also, after feeling how much faster Panther is on the same hardware, i'll willing to wait for the PBG5, whenever it comes out.

[CrackedButter]

I'm expecting a G5 laptop...G4 had its chance.

[gopher]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
If 1.25GHz is all, Apple better lower thoose prices! A notebook with 3GHz costs half the price of a 15" PowerBook!

3 GHz is meaningless. Funny, the new notebook processors from Intel which are faster are only 1.6 Ghz. As you can see not even Intel can live up to its own Mhz myth. If Intel can't, you can't expect a different processor company to be comparable in Mhz to Intel.

[MadMan]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
I'm really curious now how well the sales of PowerBooks will be with the G5 out now in PowerMacs. How many people will be waiting a year or so until they hope to see a G5 in the PowerBooks......

I'm not in the market for a new PowerBook, but I think I'd wait until I couldn't any longer if I were to buy a G4 version...

D

That would be me:D

I've waited and waited and I can't wait any more. My trusty TiBook 500 has been great, but a new 17 is just what the doctor ordered:cool:

MM

[crford]

I mean think about it... would he fly all the way to Paris just to get up on stage and talk about the G5? No, he's going to unveil something in Paris, and I'd be willing to bet it's an updated PowerBook line. No G5's but speed bump across the board, and the 15" will be updated to match the 17" and 12".

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
If 1.25GHz is all, Apple better lower thoose prices! A notebook with 3GHz costs half the price of a 15" PowerBook!

Yup with twice the weight, twice the bulk and half the battery life.

You get what you pay for.

[grahamtriggs]

Originally posted by tomf87
However, I really don't see a value in the backlit keyboard. It's a wow feature at first, then becomes just a battery drainer. I use my current Compaq laptop all the time in the dark. I find the keys just fine. Even if I couldn't, the screen gives off enough light that I could do it anyway.

Really? To quote the spec pages:

"a unique fiber optic backlit keyboard"

Fiber optics.... basically means that they could (do?) use the backlight for the screen display to light the keyboard. Single light source, that is on anyway - that would make the backlit keyboard have ZERO drain (in fact, it would have *less* drain as it "automatically lowers its display backlight").

[grahamtriggs]

Well, I can tell you right now that in London, dealers have not only reduced the price of the 17" Powerbooks, they have put the demonstration units on sale... rather indicates they are expecting fresh stocks...

[matrix3d]

I don't think they would update the 15" one without updating 17".
And I don't expect that either, coz what I'm waiting for is the 17" update. Steve pls don't disappoint me!

[Photorun]

Put down the crack pipe, and slowly back away.

NOT HAPPENING! Sorry to burst your thick noggin's bubbles but there ain't no way to currently put a G5 in a Powerbooks. Someday maybe, this year no, so stop posting your dumbass drivel!

[hmmm]

Originally posted by Photorun
Put down the crack pipe, and slowly back away.

NOT HAPPENING! Sorry to burst your thick noggin's bubbles but there ain't no way to currently put a G5 in a Powerbooks. Someday maybe, this year no, so stop posting your dumbass drivel!

Well done Photorun, such conviction, but how are you backing up your statement, do you work for IBM?

[esheep2001]

On Sept 16th, Apple will introduce the new iPad and PowerPad models. These will be keyboardless versions of the current iBook and PowerBook machines.

The iPad will also come with infra red as standard, something re-introduced to Apple laptops, so that it can be easily used to control the new iPod cradle and vPod which are also due to be unveiled. The Bluetooth version of the Powerpad can also be used as an advanced graphics tablet when combined with the new iPen. It will give graphivs designers 1024 pressure levels and 1000dpi resolution through the nib and advanced Bluetooth XY geometry tracking respectively. This all comes as standard when the $159 iPen is purchased.

:-)

Well, I'm bored of all the PBook speculation, it's time to spice things up a bit isn't it! Anyway, it's boring to get it right, let's have some extreme rumors so that we can be dissapointed afterwards ;-)

e.

[tomf87]

Originally posted by grahamtriggs
Really? To quote the spec pages:

"a unique fiber optic backlit keyboard"

Fiber optics.... basically means that they could (do?) use the backlight for the screen display to light the keyboard. Single light source, that is on anyway - that would make the backlit keyboard have ZERO drain (in fact, it would have *less* drain as it "automatically lowers its display backlight").

I stand corrected on the battery drain. :) Never was a know-it-all and never will be.

I still personally don't see the usefulness of it. Also, I would doubt that they use the LCD for the light. I'm no engineer but I don't think a light source is directed across the screen. If LCD's do work that way though, when the screen dims, would it produce enough light to light the entire keyboard still?

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by tomf87
That's correct. There's even a battle in the PC world with Intel and AMD. AMD resorted to different branding of their procs because their proc has the same performance of the Intel counterpart, even though the speed isn't identical.

Same goes for the Mac proc's.

But it is true that the G4, even allowing for the fact MHz (or GHz if you've got a PC ;) ) are misleading, are behind PCs of equivalent financial cost.

http://www.cpuscorecard.com/

If you don't admit that, then nothing you say can be taken seriously.

Also, the Centrinos do very, very well with 'just' 1.6GHz.

[Bruja]

Originally posted by Photorun
Put down the crack pipe, and slowly back away.

NOT HAPPENING! Sorry to burst your thick noggin's bubbles but there ain't no way to currently put a G5 in a Powerbooks. Someday maybe, this year no, so stop posting your dumbass drivel! But it tastes great and less filling (mmmm crack pipe). on a serious tip: I too do not believe that the G-5 Lappers will be out soon. Maybe next year this time we'll be discussing the same thing (relativly speaking)

[xtekdiver]

Originally posted by arn
I wasn't saying that it was significant perse... but more significant than any "reading between the lines" that was going on about G5 PowerBooks. See what I was replying to.

As for guessing vs not.... if you really believe every site is just guessing... you should stop reading rumor sites.

It's clear that leaks do occur and that there is real information out there. People just need to stop believing every little thing from questionable sites.

If you aren't able to filter the rumors for yourself... I suggest you stop listening to macwhispers, powerpage, looprumors and much of macbidouille, etc.... :)

arn

I didn't mean to imply that all rumors are mere guessing; only this one. Nor am I implying that you really think this is a credible rumor. I know what you were refering to, but it still doesn't change my view that this rumor is nothing more than another guess, if not an outright traffic generator. Some site posts it, all the others pick it up, we all yak about it, and in the end it still remains a question. I frequent these sites always hopeful that something will turn up; however, PB rumors have been ongoing for months and they have all been wrong. I found your new product pages a nice way to get an overview of various rumors; and they only give more weight to the idea that rumors regarding Powerbooks have lost any real sense of credibility. Bottom line is that we will all wait anxiously and watch what happens. My feeling is that it would be imbarrising and a bit perplexing for Jobs to announce a very modest upgrade to this line, at least not without a great deal of explanation; so it seems obvious at this stage, with no prior announcementhaving been made, the expectation is for Jobs to announce something significant, ie. G5 PB.

[F/reW/re]

Originally posted by Frobozz
Whew... have you BEEN to Mac rumor sites in the past 2 years. There's this thing called the MHz myth. 3GHz What? A 1 Ghz G4 Powerbook is usually faster, by design, than anything in the PC world. Their laptops are crippled in many respects. Price is usually about the same for (somewhat) comparable performance (in the Mac's favor).

:-)
Yeah, I've heard about MHz myth, pipelines and cach, but don't try to tell me that the 1GHz is as fast as the 3GHz Pentium, thats just stupid!

I want a PowerBook with Power, I don't care if it's 2 or 3 kilos!

Where I live the 1GHz PowerBook costs 24'000.
A FS notebook with Athlon XP Mobile 2600+ is 12'000.

Please Apple drop the prices in counties outside US!

[tomf87]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
Yeah, I've heard about MHz myth, pipelines and cach, but don't try to tell me that the 1GHz is as fast as the 3GHz Pentium, thats just stupid!

I want a PowerBook with Power, I don't care if it's 2 or 3 kilos!

Where I live the 1GHz PowerBook costs 24'000.
A FS notebook with Athlon XP Mobile 2600+ is 12'000.

Please Apple drop the prices in counties outside US!

Pardon my ignorance, but what currency is that? I'd be interested to compare in US dollars the pricing. I admit that it is more expensive, though.

To compare systems, my Athlon XP 2600+ desktop is just a wee bit faster on boot than my iMac 800 17". However, after that, I don't notice much difference at all.

[mania]

Originally posted by Photorun
Put down the crack pipe, and slowly back away.


aww Photorun ya beat me to it. yes please people just deal with it there will be no g5 powerbook this year. a g5 will not make surfing for porn any faster.

and another thing - if you want a dell go buy a dell and quit wasting kbytes posting about dells here. windoze weenies can all burn in dell for all i care.

there i feel better now. :p

[cubist]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
If 1.25GHz is all, Apple better lower thoose prices! ...

And why 1.25GHz? The new iMacs are not 7457s. I thought the 7457 was supposed to go to 1.33. That's 80MHz more. Don't tell me Steve is saving the 0.08GHz for a January 2004 speed bump!

I think these machines aren't 7457s, they're 7455Bs, and Appleinsider is mixing rumors with speculation again.

[reflex]

Originally posted by gopher
3 GHz is meaningless. Funny, the new notebook processors from Intel which are faster are only 1.6 Ghz.

There's a difference between "faster" and "faster at the same clockspeed". I hadn't heard that a 1.6GHz Pentium-M was faster than a 3GHz P4.

[airmac]

Originally posted by Photorun
Put down the crack pipe, and slowly back away.

NOT HAPPENING! Sorry to burst your thick noggin's bubbles but there ain't no way to currently put a G5 in a Powerbooks. Someday maybe, this year no, so stop posting your dumbass drivel!

Amen!!!

But imagine:

1.3GHz G4
15'4-inch TFT Display
"1440*900 resolution would be quite cool" (Nicoman..:D )
2 mega L3 cach
ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 (64MB DDR video)
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA/100
SuperDrive
FireWire 800
USB 2.0
AirPort Extreme ready
Bluetooth built-in
DVI & S-Video out
6 hours of battery life (oh well..)
Pack it in a nice aluminum case.

$1,999.00...:D

The point is...I'll be more than happy with this update.

[machem]

Originally posted by tomf87
I stand corrected on the battery drain. :) Never was a know-it-all and never will be.

I still personally don't see the usefulness of it. Also, I would doubt that they use the LCD for the light. I'm no engineer but I don't think a light source is directed across the screen. If LCD's do work that way though, when the screen dims, would it produce enough light to light the entire keyboard still?

Well, call me silly, but the keyboard backlighting is a big feature for me. I use my 'book in the dark all the time, and though I am a very good touch-typist, turn out the lights, and I lose all confidence in my ability. Thus, I'm often looking at the keys in the dark. Even though I *know* where that damn F4 key is, I need to see it. When I can't see it, I have to pick up the 'book, to gain whatever little available light there is... you get the picture.

Even though I know the proc speed, FSB, memory speed, L2 cache, etc etc is more important, it's that little bit of eye candy that is gonna make me real happy.

:o

[pgwalsh]

I’m hoping that the 15” gets updated to the new aluminum chassis and gets a speed bump… That would make me and I believe a lot of other people happy…

It would freak me out if they introduced G5 based PowerBooks, but I don’t think it will happen. There's too many issues with limited processors, but that may not be the case with 1.2 1.4 ghz G5.

The iBook needs to be pushed over the 1ghz mark. It would be really appealing with a G4 1ghz…

Not sure why we think we can’t have a G4 in the PowerBook and the iBook. We had the G4 in the eMac, iMac, and PowerMacs. I suppose the there wouldn’t be a big difference since they have nearly the same form factor, where the eMac, iMac, and G4 have a huge difference in form factor.

[tomf87]

Originally posted by pgwalsh

Not sure why we think we can’t have a G4 in the PowerBook and the iBook. We had the G4 in the eMac, iMac, and PowerMacs. I suppose the there wouldn’t be a big difference since they have nearly the same form factor, where the eMac, iMac, and G4 have a huge difference in form factor.


If you have a 1Ghz G4 iBook, then the extra money for a 1.25 12" PB would not be worth it.

I would guess that having two lines of portables is much better for Apple rather than having just one. In addition, the model lines represent two classes: personal (iBook) and business (PB), if you will. Combining these would take away the classiness of the PB. Among one of the reasons of getting PB over an iBook (besides more power), is the look and feel. Make the models the same power (or roughly the same) and then all you have is the look and feel. While some people will pay for that, most people would not feel as though they are getting their money's worth.

$1000 more for Aluminum. Hmmm, think I might just wrap my iBook G4 in Aluminum foil. :) Wait a minute, I have an idea! ...

[ahol19]

i'll believe this when i see it. I was hearing 15 inch pb updats since march. Now i am tired of hearing them. I think the current 15 modles are ok. Sure i would love firewire 800 and USB 2.0, but i have a G4 1ghz 15in pb and i love it. If/when something comes i will be happy, but i dont know what all this fuss is about new 1's. Arent the ones out now good enough?
Adam

[tomf87]

Originally posted by ahol19
i'll believe this when i see it. I was hearing 15 inch pb updats since march. Now i am tired of hearing them. I think the current 15 modles are ok. Sure i would love firewire 800 and USB 2.0, but i have a G4 1ghz 15in pb and i love it. If/when something comes i will be happy, but i dont know what all this fuss is about new 1's. Arent the ones out now good enough?
Adam

They are, but as we know, the whole computer scene revolves around speed and who's got the fastest <fill in computer part>.

Nobody needs 64-bit computing at home yet. But, since they produced it, people will buy it. Just like cars, motorcycles, or anything else.

[tedjac]

Originally posted by jocknerd
Apple doesn't care that their 15" PowerBook costs twice as much as an Intel based while running twice as slow. Apple only wants you to compare it to the previous version of the PowerBook. That way, they can justify the cost. Thats how they could justify the price increase on the PowerMacs with the introduction of the G5. Whereas the rest of the world has PC prices coming down, Apple raised theirs.

If the previous PowerMac ran a 867mhz processor and cost $2500 and the new one uses a 1.25ghz processor and costs the same, Apple expects you to see that its a good deal.
Nevermind that a Dell or Sony 15" with a 3ghz processor and the same specs could possibly be around $1999. Apple has tunnel vision. They never look outside their world. And it actually seems to be working for them. They are profitable. And only Dell can say that besides Apple.

The major thing that you seem to have left out is that the Sony and the Dell STILL RUN WINDOWS!! We Mac faithful are willing to pay a premium for our computers because they generally are more reliable, easier to use, don't get viruses and are built better than most PC's. Not to mention the Macs superior multimedia capabilities... Also keep in mind that while Windows is still waiting for "Longhorn" (now what, at 2006), we Mac users are looking at Panther (in a few weeks) and greater things to come long before Windows actually has anything significantly new or more reliable or safer to offer. This debate has been going on for literally decades. If you want a Dell or a Sony... buy one! You will definitely get what you pay for... and don't forget to turn on that firewall and fire up that virus software... 'cuz you're gonn need it!

Ted

[daveL]

Originally posted by tomf87
-Rocketman

How long have you used your PB? I heard one gentleman say their new PB's last only about a year before needing repair. He stated the case would crack or something along those lines.
What a crock. I've had mine for more than 10 months, lugged it on airplanes for months on end, use it everyday, all day, as my primary machine, and it doesn't have a scratch on it. In fact, if I tried to sell it to you, in person, you'd swear it was a brand new machine. TiBook: 1 GHz, 1 GB, superdrive. Best laptop I've ever owned or used.

[tomf87]

Originally posted by tedjac
The major thing that you seem to have left out is that the Sony and the Dell STILL RUN WINDOWS!! We Mac faithful are willing to pay a premium for our computers because they generally are more reliable, easier to use, don't get viruses and are built better than most PC's. Not to mention the Macs superior multimedia capabilities... Also keep in mind that while Windows is still waiting for "Longhorn" (now what, at 2006), we Mac users are looking at Panther (in a few weeks) and greater things to come long before Windows actually has anything significantly new or more reliable or safer to offer. This debate has been going on for literally decades. If you want a Dell or a Sony... buy one! You will definitely get what you pay for... and don't forget to turn on that firewall and fire up that virus software... 'cuz you're gonn need it!

Ted

I agree. Most people buy a Mac due to the OS, not the hardware. If (and let's don't start down this path) Mac OS ran on x86 architecture, people would do it. And this is simply for the fact that the architecture has a broader base and development is much faster this way. Granted the outside of Apple products look much better than their PC counterparts, but when the rubber hits the road, it's the internals that get the job done.

There's nothing wrong with the x86 architecture. The only thing I can see so far that Apple has that x86 doesn't is FW800. Well, if you can add a card in later to the machine to support FW800, no big deal. And Apple has taken bits right from x86. Remember when Mac's were all SCSI? Or how about ADB? They adopted IDE and PCI, because it was too expensive for manufacturers to adopt to a proprietary bus (in case of ADB). IDE was adopted because SCSI didn't really provide any benefit at the desktop. They went to a 15-pin VGA port as well, and now they are using PCI-X.

I guess my point gets down to the fact that it seems the real war is at the OS level, not the architecture.

[tomf87]

Originally posted by daveL
What a crock. I've had mine for more than 10 months, lugged it on airplanes for months on end, use it everyday, all day, as my primary machine, and it doesn't have a scratch on it. In fact, if I tried to sell it to you, in person, you'd swear it was a brand new machine. TiBook: 1 GHz, 1 GB, superdrive. Best laptop I've ever owned or used.

Thanks, daveL! Didn't mean to excite you there.. :) Just wanting to get an idea of if this was an isolated incident or not.

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by tomf87
I agree. Most people buy a Mac due to the OS, not the hardware. If (and let's don't start down this path) Mac OS ran on x86 architecture, people would do it. And this is simply for the fact that the architecture has a broader base development is much faster this way.

There's nothing wrong with the x86 architecture. The only thing I can see so far that Apple has that x86 doesn't is FW800. Well, if you can add a card in later to the machine to support FW800, no big deal. And Apple has taken bits right from x86. Remember when Mac's were all SCSI? Or how about ADB? They adopted IDE and PCI, because it was too expensive for manufacturers to adopt to a proprietary bus (in case of ADB). IDE was adopted because SCSI didn't really provide any benefit at the desktop. They went to a 15-pin VGA port as well, and now they are using PCI-X.

I guess my point gets down to the fact that it seems the real war is at the OS level, not the architecture.

Don't forget about who developed USB.

[tomf87]

Originally posted by pgwalsh
Don't forget about who developed USB.

Ahhh yes... :) Just trying to get to the point that some things should be done collaboratively, rather than against each other.

[daveL]

Originally posted by xDANx
i was at a demo of the G5 put on by apple canada in montreal last night...they said that 10.2.7 contains absolutely no improvements over 10.2.6...no bug fixes, no new features, only support for G5 hardware. they basically said that 10.2.6 is it for non-G5 hardware until 10.3. whether or not that means that 'blackrider' is for G5 powerbooks, i have no idea. but unless smeagol already includes support for the mythical powerbook G5 hardware then it's reasonable to assume that another version of 10.2.7 would be needed.
That's odd. Apple seeded 10.2.8 to developers several days ago and is for all non-G5 Macs only. I'm running it now.

[chazmox]

Originally posted by Photorun
Put down the crack pipe, and slowly back away.

NOT HAPPENING! Sorry to burst your thick noggin's bubbles but there ain't no way to currently put a G5 in a Powerbooks. Someday maybe, this year no, so stop posting your dumbass drivel!

No way??? I doubt a G5 PB so soon, but I hate inflamatory statements without backup.

Reasons for a PB G5:
1.) 1.2 GHz G5 power consumption approximately the same as a 1 Ghz G4.

Reasons against:
1.) Current architecture with dual banks of ram may need heavy modification for PB's.
2.) System Controller runs fairly hot ( since it is a proprietary chip, we will never know... )

Please reason and argument before certainty of your opinion!

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by tomf87
Ahhh yes... :) Just trying to get to the point that some things should be done collaboratively, rather than against each other. right, and I remember when I bought my G3 how Apple boasted that they were the first to have USB. They helped intel out alot.

[Bob Knob]

Originally posted by tomf87
-Rocketman

How long have you used your PB? I heard one gentleman say their new PB's last only about a year before needing repair. He stated the case would crack or something along those lines.

Mine is an original PB G4 500MHz, from the first shipping batch and has been working almost none stop as my main computer since I received it 01-31-01. It's been all over the world and still works great, there are some scratches here and there but no cracks. As for its speed, it's still fast enough for day to day work and tweaking projects in the field (what I bought it for), I have other Macs for for heavy work like video compression... still waiting for my G5s (ordered the first day) to ship.

[Doraemon]

Just thought this would fit into the situation:

http://geekculture.com/joyoftech/

;)

[ColoJohnBoy]

Originally posted by DrGruv1
looking for G5 powerbooks (not going to happen till jan or later.. my guess)

and

ibooks go to the G4

then what is the price?

$2100 G5 powerbook
$1200 G4 ibook

???????

Kids, the iBook is not going G4. It will stay with G3, using the Gobi processor, and possibly with the AltiVec unit that the Gobi is capable of.

Why would Apple up the iBooks to the G4 when the Gobi is capable of faster speeds? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Gobi capable of something like 1.5 Ghz?

[tomf87]

Originally posted by ColoJohnBoy
Kids, the iBook is not going G4. It will stay with G3, using the Gobi processor, and possibly with the AltiVec unit that the Gobi is capable of.

Why would Apple up the iBooks to the G4 when the Gobi is capable of faster speeds? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Gobi capable of something like 1.5 Ghz?

1.1 Ghz if you trust this..

http://www.lowendmac.com/misc/03/0903.html

Then it also talks about the new "Mojave" processor supposedly to go to 1.6Ghz and slated for production in December 2003.

[MM2270]

nice to see a *solid* rumor :D (if there is such a thing) on PB updates. But I hope Apple updates the 12" little guy. That model sorely needs some more ummph, more bang for the buck, y'know? I'd love to get a 12" PB G4, but the current one is just lacking too much IMHO.
If they slimmed it down a little, gave it L3 cache (they way they SHOULD have to begin with), higher RAM ceiling (what's with the 640MB ceiling??), maybe FW800 and USB2 as well, although neither of those are a necessity, I'd get one. The FW & USB updates might raise the cost, which wouldn't be good, so if they needed to leave those out to keep the current price point, that'd be fine with me. Just bump the proc speed, higher RAM capacity, add some L3 and slim it down, and.. oh yeah, some more base RAM would be nice too.
I know, I know, I'm dreaming, but the 12" model is close to what I've wanted for some time now, but it's juuust not quite there yet. Some here's hoping, eh?

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by grahamtriggs
Fiber optics.... basically means that they could (do?) use the backlight for the screen display to light the keyboard.

Couple of issues....

1. Apple says that they're separate "In low light, for example, the PowerBook G4 automatically lowers its display backlight and turns on the backlit keyboard." (http://www.apple.com/powerbook/index17.html)

2. Have you ever looked at the cable bundle already snaking through the hinge? Adding fibres would be a headache at least.

3. Seen the keychain flashlights - the white LED ones powered by watch batteries? The power drain would be insignificant (especially since the backlight would already be dimmed, as was mentioned)

[mmmbop]

Originally posted by ColoJohnBoy
Why would Apple up the iBooks to the G4 when the Gobi is capable of faster speeds? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Gobi capable of something like 1.5 Ghz?

If marketed as being something newer than the G3.

Intel seem prepared to spend the dollars on marketing their Centrino chips and getting the brand recognised. If these G3 chips are going into the iBook only, then Apple could come up with a suitable moniker that would position the Gobi/Mojave (if it does exist) as Apple's 'mobile' chip.

I would probably buy a Mojave-powered laptop over a G5 simply on cost reasons. I would love to buy a G5 laptop, but then so would my credit card company.

[Photorun]

Reasons for a PB G5:
1.) 1.2 GHz G5 power consumption approximately the same as a 1 Ghz G4.

Reasons against:
1.) Current architecture with dual banks of ram may need heavy modification for PB's.
2.) System Controller runs fairly hot ( since it is a proprietary chip, we will never know... )

Please reason and argument before certainty of your opinion

Not opinion, but if you want "opinion," every Rumor site of varying quality, some with actual factual info, and this is rumor sites, some with people who know engineering, have said that with the current die and specs of the current (note: the current) G5 there's no way to put them into a laptop.

It's safe(r) to speculate that there cannot be a G5 Powerbook for at least a few months based on information gleaned from everywhere and watching the progression of the G5 chip, then to speculate foolishly that the G5 Powerbooks will be sooner than later... in fact, the latter is dangerous as too many naive macheads tend to then blame Apple when their foolish, misguided dreams are put upon pedestals that clearly cannot and will not take place... like the G5 Powerbook.

As a person who's looked inside a G5, oooh and ahhhed over the work of art the G5 is (it really is, a G5 1.8 anyways, only one I've taken apart), and as a guy who's been taking computers apart since his first Timex Sinclair (anyone remember those?) and then used to build his own peecees before one thing was self evident, Macs rule, unless there's an engineering breakthrough overnight there's a lot of work to go from the current G5 as a desktop machine to a laptop machine. Heat, even clocking the chip down, would be more than the current Powerbook enclosure to handle. That's just the tip of the iceberg, then there's fitting much of the new architecture under the hood, if you've been inside a G5, you'd see there's a lot of stuff going on that wouldn't fit in the G4 17 PB, let alone the other sizes. Not that they can't reengineer it, but that takes time and testing.

The only way Apple could release the G5 Powerbook would be to say "available come the first of the year" which of course with Apple will mean mid 2004 which is about how long it'll take to make the G5 possible. In other words, Jobs could do what he did with the G5, say it'll be available on X date, really knowing it won't be until Y date (a month later for most buyers) and then not be able to ship until Z date in quantity, which reality is, for the current G5 Powermac, that's not going to be until mid to late October (mark my words), maybe later for some (just today I've heard from people who've said their current "revised" date has slipped a week back). Five months from Paris Expo is February 2004 so, by the current BS that Apple is working on with the G5 desktops, yes, they could indeed announce the Powerbook G5. But hopefully they're not going to do two moronic things in one year.

BTW I'm a huge Apple fan, just not sucked into the RDF. Apple is a great company, but needs to do better on being upfront about delivering on promises.

[ahol19]

There is a way to make a G5 "laptop" All you need is a drill, some screws, a generator to power that sucker lol, and a screen so u can see. First you lay the G5 on its side and the screen on it. Take that drill u bought and drill the screen into the G5. Then plug both in the generator and there u have it. A G5 laptop. Sure it weighs as much as a baby cow and will burn through your pants. But hey, everyone wants a G5 laptop, thats how u make one.

Adam

[XMAN]

Any thoughts from anybody on the possiblity for faster SuperDrives for these rumored updated Powerbooks?:confused:

[steveh]

Originally posted by pgwalsh
Don't forget about who developed USB.

Zayante.

An ex-Intel engineer started it up, got USB going...and was reeled in later by Intel.

Did you have a point?

[ZildjianKX]

Man, I have been wanting an updated 15" since May... this has dragged on so long and the speed bump is going to be so low for the amount of time its been that I don't even want one anymore. I'm not sure if others feel the same way, but these laptops have been delayed so long that I've lost all interest, unless there is some incredible "wow" factor... which i doubt. Looks like I'll be getting a G5 tower then.

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by hmmm
Well done Photorun, such conviction, but how are you backing up your statement, do you work for IBM?

He doesnt have to work for IBM. The G5 simply runs too hot to go into a Powerbook. They have been working on the .9 and .65 micron versions, but those are all research right now. They aren't being mass produced.

Apple itself said there wouldn't be a G5 in Powerbooks anytime soon.

Why do you people continue to think there will be a G5 in the Powerbook?

[crees!]

Originally posted by SeaFox
Why do you people continue to think there will be a G5 in the Powerbook?

People make this assertion because a clocked down (1.2Ghz) G5 dissipates roughly the same amount of heat as the current G4 chips. That is why.

[aras]

Ok - let me ask this: how much faster might a G5 underclocked at say 1.2 ghz in a powerbook be than a 1.25 ghz G4 ?

Would there be a difference? For which applications? I understand something of the G5 architechture is much better, but in day to day performance? Until 10.3?

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by crees!
People make this assertion because a clocked down (1.2Ghz) G5 dissipates roughly the same amount of heat as the current G4 chips. That is why.

What about Apple's statement then?

[magitekkn]

Well.... I was going to start this post saying that the G5 controller couldn't be ultra-power hungry since it's on the back of the G5 logic board. (thought process being that if it's THAT power hungry and heat producing, it would need to be in the large thermal zone on the other side of the board.

BUT

I did some research and checked out the back of the G5 logic board, only to find a heat pipe network that rivals the one in my PB G4 667 DVI. This makes me think the chip is probably dumping 15-20W by itself.

However, This doesn't mean that dual G4's would solve everything, in a dual G4 Powerbook (as suggested by powerpage.org) you would find the following:

2x G4 Processors
1x G4 System controller
2x 1MB L3 cache

Whereas in a G5 laptop you would find:
1x G5 (~19W for 1.2GHz@1.1V if the Oct. 2002 docs are to be believed)
1x G5 Controller
Higher speed ram

I maintain that the G5 system would draw less power than the supposed 2xG4 system. Especially for the fact that 1) Power consumption increased with frequency. 2) The G5 controller's clock speed is 1/2 that of the G5 itself. meaning at 1.2GHz, the controller would run at a relatively slow 600MHz.

Which would you rather have? I'd rather have the G5 Laptop than some hacked together dual G4 laptop. (so put my money on a single G4 pb next week and let me be surprised if it's anything better)

PS, this image is copyright Apple 2003.

[crees!]

Originally posted by SeaFox
What about Apple's statement then?

Everyone has their own take on when Phil said, "Not any time soon." For me, I don't think it would happen this soon. Other people think "not any time soon" can mean 3 weeks, 3 months, or 3 years. That's why everyone has a varying opinion about this. The only way we will know is when Apple releases the G5PB.. THEN we all will understand the meaning of "not any time soon."

[lewdvig]

As crazy as it sounds initially, a dual cpu notebook would restore a lot of the hardware superiority mystique apple has lost the past few years.

I think there is enough room in the 17" for another CPU :^)

I like the idea of mobile workstations. This IS what PBs are used for. An extra lbs would not hurt too much would it?

Light small and cheap is what an iBook should be. Not the PB.

[Maxx Power]

Well, i just talked to a apple computers sales man on campus here at university of ottawa, i was wanting to buy a computer. I mentioned to him i'm waiting for a powerbook revision/update, and he says to me, it's coming on tuesday, and he's already got a few in stock, and says for me to be here first thing on tuesday if i want mine.

[lewdvig]

Originally posted by magitekkn
Well.... I was going to start this post saying that the G5 controller couldn't be ultra-power hungry since it's on the back of the G5 logic board. (thought process being that if it's THAT power hungry and heat producing, it would need to be in the large thermal zone on the other side of the board.

BUT

I did some research and checked out the back of the G5 logic board, only to find a heat pipe network that rivals the one in my PB G4 667 DVI. This makes me think the chip is probably dumping 15-20W by itself.

However, This doesn't mean that dual G4's would solve everything, in a dual G4 Powerbook (as suggested by powerpage.org) you would find the following:

2x G4 Processors
1x G4 System controller
2x 1MB L3 cache

Whereas in a G5 laptop you would find:
1x G5 (~19W for 1.2GHz@1.1V if the Oct. 2002 docs are to be believed)
1x G5 Controller
Higher speed ram

I maintain that the G5 system would draw less power than the supposed 2xG4 system. Especially for the fact that 1) Power consumption increased with frequency. 2) The G5 controller's clock speed is 1/2 that of the G5 itself. meaning at 1.2GHz, the controller would run at a relatively slow 600MHz.

Which would you rather have? I'd rather have the G5 Laptop than some hacked together dual G4 laptop. (so put my money on a single G4 pb next week and let me be surprised if it's anything better)

PS, this image is copyright Apple 2003.


Ram speed would depend on the clock speed of the G5 in question. I think that DDR 2700 would be fine on a 1.2 or 1.3 system. DDR sodim voltage requirements and heat would not be problems.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by crees!
People make this assertion because a clocked down (1.2Ghz) G5 dissipates roughly the same amount of heat as the current G4 chips. That is why.
Like some others here have said I think it's not just about the processor. There is also the rest of the supporting chipset, which could produce (to be honest, I don't have a clue, just speculating here) heat, not only that, but could also need to be optimized to fit in a PB enclosure. Now I know some of you are going to argue that there is a precedent when Apple introduced both a desktop and a laptop running a new chip (was it the G3?) almost at the same time, but I think there is also much more at stake here. A good part of PowerBooks' success is based on their looks: let's face it, you don't see that many 'sexy' PeeCee laptops (let's not get into Dell's placing coloured plastic covers on their laptop...), and that beautiful design (so pure, and so slim...) comes at a price: it is much more difficult to arrange all the pieces together in those enclosures (that's why the 12" was thicker...). I guess it would be pretty much possible for Apple to produce a 'laptop' with a G5, maybe one in a Dell-type box. But the fact remain that it is a lot more difficult in a slim PowerBook enclosure... Those are the reasons that, I feel, make the G4 the more likely and the more realistic option for those upcoming laptops. But who knows, they might surprise us (although I don't believe it, especially IF they announce new PBs next week, which remains to be seen...).

My £0.05 (I felt it was too long to be worth £0.02) :D.

[bertagert]

Since I guessed correctly on the G5 systems (I didn't get the top dual but I did get the 1.6, 1.8 & 2.0 GHZ correct when everyone else said 1.8 at the top). I'm going to go out on a limb one more time.

I have know idea on when the PBooks will be released. But, when they do, I'm going to say.....1.1GHZ & 1.3GHZ G4.

but...one more thing:
I have a feeling that Apple hasn't delayed the release of the 15" all because of Moto. They kept inching the PowerMacs along for over a year and everyone was pe'ed-off because Apple didn't release something better. They didn't release anything better because the G5 was coming out. Well, the same thing is happening to the Powerbooks. I have a funny feeling that a 1.2 & 1.4 GHZ G5 Pbook might happen real soon. I know they're people saying it won't happen, but these are the same people that said my 1.6 - 2.0 GHZ G5 wasn't going to happen.

My proof to this is: Apple "NEEDS" to increase the processor speed in a big way on the powerbooks, just like they needed to on the Powermacs. So, my final bid is on 1.1 & 1.3 GHZ G4's. But, I wouldn't be suprised to see a G5 Powerbook in the not-so-far future.

Take it for what it's worth

[Photorun]

By "not so far" if you mean perhaps in the first half of next year... yes. This year... no.

PS I wasn't one of the people who said your G5 1.6 wasn't going to happen, I had figured something like this since November 2002 after reading the IBM white paper on the 970/Power4/5

[iLife]

Originally posted by lord_flash
But it is true that the G4, even allowing for the fact MHz (or GHz if you've got a PC ;) ) are misleading, are behind PCs of equivalent financial cost.

http://www.cpuscorecard.com/

If you don't admit that, then nothing you say can be taken seriously.

Also, the Centrinos do very, very well with 'just' 1.6GHz.

"Centrino" is a wireless adapter based on the 802.11b standard... it is not a processor. It's the equivelent of an airport card.

You're thinking a Celeron Chip, and i wouldn't give my grandfather a computer with that chip in it.

this is wrong, i'm a moron, go fig :D

[macphoria]

This news better be true. 12" and 17" also better get updates. 1GHz G4 for 12" and 1.25+ for 17". And hopefully 12" will get L3 Cache?

[daveL]

Originally posted by iLife
"Centrino" is a wireless adapter based on the 802.11b standard... it is not a processor. It's the equivelent of an airport card.

You're thinking a Celeron Chip, and i wouldn't give my grandfather a computer with that chip in it.
Sorry, but you are mistaken. Centrino is:

o Intel Pentium M processor (NOT Celeron);
o Intel 855 Chipset; and
o Intel PRO/Wireless 2100 network.

This info is from Intel's Web site.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by bertagert
They didn't release anything better because the G5 was coming out.
On the one hand, it makes sense: Apple would do like last year when (beginning of Nov) they speedbumped iBooks and PBooks and then released 2 new PBs 2 months later at MWSF. Maybe...
But on the other hand: it doesn't make any sense at all. Why would Apple intentionnally forget about PowerBook sales (inventories ridiculously low to inexistant for some time) during the summer and for the back-to-school season, IF they had the oportunity to update (speedbump) the range earlier?
I might be missing something here but if they were close to a final version of the PBG5, they wouldn't bother with a PBG4 update, UNLESS they couldn't do it earlier, which seems the general consensus (Moto's fault, assembly's fault, who knows?).
Even though I agree that we are not too far from a PBG5, I think Apple would have updated the PBG4 line a lot earlier if they had been able too (July, maybe?) to generate sales for that Q3 2003. Now I'd love to be pleasantly surprised by Apple next week with a PBG5, but my (beer-)gut feeling is we won't see those announced before MWSF (and we won't get those before March or something...)

[TreeTruckie]

But will I be able to plug a 23" Cinema Display into the updated 12" PB?

[iLife]

Originally posted by daveL
Sorry, but you are mistaken. Centrino is:

o Intel Pentium M processor (NOT Celeron);
o Intel 855 Chipset; and
o Intel PRO/Wireless 2100 network.

This info is from Intel's Web site.

ok...

[dilg]

[please delete]

[bertagert]

Originally posted by NicoMan

Even though I agree that we are not too far from a PBG5, I think Apple would have updated the PBG4 line a lot earlier if they had been able too (July, maybe?) to generate sales for that Q3 2003. Now I'd love to be pleasantly surprised by Apple next week with a PBG5, but my (beer-)gut feeling is we won't see those announced before MWSF (and we won't get those before March or something...)

Good points Nico.

I was thinking that maybe they had nothing to speed bump up to and hence my G5 theories. Maybe I'll rethink my previous stuff....na, I'll stick with what I got and see what happens. I don't care if I'm right or wrong.

[RichP]

Realistically, I think we will see the new 15 next week, with a 1.25, which will find its way into 17 as well.

Next Jan, we will see a G5 powerbook, for spring delivery; I have used the 1.8, and it seems in usual usage it outdoes a dually G4.

thats my story and im sticking to it.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by bertagert
I don't care if I'm right or wrong.
Me neither. All this idle speculation helps us pass the time until we actually get that PB update, when I can hopefully replace my iBook with a 12" PB that is a lot more than a left-hand warmer (or maybe a 15".... aaaargh, the suspense is killing me. Or should I get an iMac, or a PMG5????, or all of the above?).

[MacsRgr8]

Any idea why Steve would "introduce" new/updated PowerBooks at MacWorld Paris, and NOT the iMacs/iPods?
Could be:
a) "Year of the Laptop"... So, Steve is living up to his own words he spoke back in January (must present laptops this year)
b) The 15" will be Aluminium, thus a new model, which Steve thinks is important enough to introduce on stage.
c) The update is truly significant.... <whispers "G5">

[mania]

Originally posted by crees!
People make this assertion because a clocked down (1.2Ghz) G5 dissipates roughly the same amount of heat as the current G4 chips. That is why.

Let it go please! no one is predicting a g5 exept you wannabees - oh i hope there will be a g5 powerbook so i can open word faster. everyone in the know says g4. deal with it already.

[bertagert]

Originally posted by NicoMan
or maybe a 15".... aaaargh, the suspense is killing me. Or should I get an iMac, or a PMG5????, or all of the above?).

I'm waiting on the new 15". I'll be getting that and a 23" screen. I just want a little more uumph then the current 15".

Hope someone produces a docking station for these new Pbooks. Pluging in the wires all the time would stink. Well, my fingers are crossed. I've waited almost a full year for an update. Even a few more months isn't going to kill me. Lets hope they do come out on the 16th and they have more than 1.25 GHZ. If so, I'll be buying:)

[greenstork]

That Apple has waited this long to update PB's for a couple of reasons:

1) Not to take away anything from G5 sales, publicity, etc.

2) To make sure that they sell updated G4's PB's by backing up the pipeline of PB buyers. Since many people have waited so long, there are many folks just chomping at the bit to buy a new PB and waiting on the next update. By keeping people waiting, boom, when they releasae them, they sell like hotcakes. This is why I think PB's will have a G4. They will eeeek out one last big run on G4 PB's and release the G5 PB early next year. Since many have waited so long for this update however, they are likely to buy a new PB, even without a G5.

That said, I think it's a G4. I think they have waited as long as they have because it is a G4 and they want to ensure that they will sell them (instead of people just deciding to wait until the G5). The only way to do that is to make their anticipated buyers hungry. Which, as evidenced from this forum, is quite obvious.

[VicMacs]

it does not make sense to bring a g5 processor to a powerbook this soon. I believe that people are gettng to discover the power of the g5 desktop and it would be unbussinesslike (?) to release the same kind of superporcessor on a laptop, this would kill the g5 desktop and apple can't do that when it has not even delivered the first 10,000 orders of this machine...

I expect an update of the 15 inch because it has fallen very much behind of the 17 and 12 inch models, but then again apple will not make it its high end model, because the 17 incher is here for that, to be a high end model.

Maybe the iBooks will see a g4 upgrade... The g3 processor is not up to the panther challenge, even if the graphics card is there, there comes a time where the g3 processor just doesnt cut it... now is that time, but they cant put an 800mhz chip on an ibook when a 12 inch powerbook sports a 867 g4 processor,

So bump them all up, make the 17 inch a 1.4, make the 15 incher 1.25 and the 12 incher 1.0, then move the ibook up to a whatever they have left of the old g4 processors, make the high end ibook a g4 800 and voila you got the 2 great G processors all across the line and everybody is happy.

I dont expect prices to drop. If youre gonna get your mac, you dont care too mucho for a 100 bucks. Theyre well worth that. But now people that wont have to spend more than 1200 dollars will get to work on panther in a very decent way. with a 12 inch ibook running on a g4.

Belive it.... or not.

[magitekkn]

Originally posted by VicMacs
it does not make sense to bring a g5 processor to a powerbook this soon. I believe that people are gettng to discover the power of the g5 desktop and it would be unbussinesslike (?) to release the same kind of superporcessor on a laptop, this would kill the g5 desktop and apple can't do that when it has not even delivered the first 10,000 orders of this machine...

I expect an update of the 15 inch because it has fallen very much behind of the 17 and 12 inch models, but then again apple will not make it its high end model, because the 17 incher is here for that, to be a high end model.

Maybe the iBooks will see a g4 upgrade... The g3 processor is not up to the panther challenge, even if the graphics card is there, there comes a time where the g3 processor just doesnt cut it... now is that time, but they cant put an 800mhz chip on an ibook when a 12 inch powerbook sports a 867 g4 processor,

So bump them all up, make the 17 inch a 1.4, make the 15 incher 1.25 and the 12 incher 1.0, then move the ibook up to a whatever they have left of the old g4 processors, make the high end ibook a g4 800 and voila you got the 2 great G processors all across the line and everybody is happy.

I dont expect prices to drop. If youre gonna get your mac, you dont care too mucho for a 100 bucks. Theyre well worth that. But now people that wont have to spend more than 1200 dollars will get to work on panther in a very decent way. with a 12 inch ibook running on a g4.

Belive it.... or not.

I can't think of anything in Panther that is anymore processor hungry on a grand scale than in Jaguar. If anything, friends of mine have said that Panther Betas run faster on their iBooks than Jaguar.

[eric67]

Originally posted by daveL
Sorry, but you are mistaken. Centrino is:

o Intel Pentium M processor (NOT Celeron);
o Intel 855 Chipset; and
o Intel PRO/Wireless 2100 network.

This info is from Intel's Web site.
this is true up to now, but Intel plans to release Celeron Centrino; so indeed then Centrino at the end will simply mean with wireless capacities.
Actually it also means processor speed management, so it means that the processor clock when not required goes down, so a 1.6GHz P4M might go 1.0 or even less when there is no intensive request, that is the way that Intel has chosen to extent battery life...

[eric67]

think many people here forget one point, but a key one.
Steve was announcing the year of portable computer for Apple, probably because info from Motorola were optimistic about the PPC 7457... well now I think it is quite clear that motorola can not deliver large volume of PPC7457...so if there is a speed bump it might be only with the new G4 found in the brand new iMac revision, and to get 1.25GHz in a PB, then you need a bigger cooling system, so you need more space, so expect it only for the 17" (and this is almost sure to happen ), but that's all I think we can postulate here.
as simple as that :
no PPC7457 = no major PBG4 update, at least for the processor.
only solution for Apple : get the G5 working in the PB, which means, control heating and battery life problems... and the latest rumors on that subjects were positive, but not for a release in 1 week....except if Apple engineers and IBM made some miracles...
We should stop expecting the moon from Apple, otherwise we will be disappointed, one should not forget, that most of the tech & dev resources have been lately concentrated on the PM G5, and this was a major shift for Apple.
one week to go

[natebailey11]

Originally posted by Maxx Power
Well, i just talked to a apple computers sales man on campus here at university of ottawa, i was wanting to buy a computer. I mentioned to him i'm waiting for a powerbook revision/update, and he says to me, it's coming on tuesday, and he's already got a few in stock, and says for me to be here first thing on tuesday if i want mine.


Did nobody else see this? If there is any validity to this what so ever, wow... immediate shipping. I'm not one to speculate, but I wanted to make sure others saw this so that someone can speculate on it! :)

[panphage]

Originally posted by eric67
only solution for Apple : get the G5 working in the PB, which means, control heating and battery life problems... and the latest rumors on that subjects were positive, but not for a release in 1 week....except if Apple engineers and IBM made some miracles...
We should stop expecting the moon from Apple, otherwise we will be disappointed, one should not forget, that most of the tech & dev resources have been lately concentrated on the PM G5, and this was a major shift for Apple.
one week to go

1. Yes, the DESKTOP R&D team was busy working on the PM G5. Meanwhile, G4 development ground to a halt.

Now what do you think the NOTEBOOK R&D team was doing for the last three years while PB development has languished?

2. Powerbooks will not be held back so desktiop sales keep steady. That is absolutely asinine and makes no sense. Companies release products when he product is ready and the market is ready. Losing sales on powerbooks to improve sales on desktops makes 0 sense, especially when profits are higher on notebooks.

3. If the notebook R&D isn't done with a G5 version yet, Steve Jobs will make absolutely no mention of portable machines in Paris. There is nothing compelling about a minor speedbump and updating the 15" to the same specs the 12 and 17 have had for 7 months. There's no dazzle, no PR value, no surprise or pleasure there. Why mention a 25% speedbump to the 15"PB and quietly release the same speedbump in the imacs a week earlier?

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by tomf87
-Rocketman

How long have you used your PB? I heard one gentleman say their new PB's last only about a year before needing repair. He stated the case would crack or something along those lines.

Ti400 RevA first month. 1-2001 IIRC

It has some scratches and some of the paint on the bottom is coming off and the rubber legs have long since been hurtfully scraped off by some abuse of mine.

I upgraded the memory to 384k.

The things it needs most are an increased size HD and faster, and a CDRW which I hear http://www.transintl.com/newstuff/index4.cfm can do

I use OS9.2 since most of my workflow is traditional apps. I hear OSX is no faster but when I get my next personal Mac I am not replacing but adding so I can run whatever OSX is most recent at the time. I intend to do some software development with that system that I am pre-writing now.

I for one would find a lighted keyboard a godsend and I never bothered with a USB light dongle.

One factor is the G400 is one of the cooler running PB's of all time. The 7457 ought to improve on that and the G5 Rev B even more. I fins that the option to reduce speed is one worth implementing for "most tasks" then reenable high speed when it is really needed.

I use it both on the lap and on a desk. I suggest if using a desk to put it on a short riser for airflow. Anything from a mouse pad to a 1/2" thick 8x12 board.

Mine is cracked near the CD frive door possibly from resting an arm near it. That is somewhat badly designed. If that cracked I suspect other cracks along that "rim part" are likely with even ild abuse of the system. I have dropped mine off a table at least a half dozen times with no detectible effects.

Now that it is old the screen has developed an intermittend vertical red line on the display that is modified in presence by display angle. Intermittant display witing prob no doubt. It couldn't be from dropping it several times could it?

If I were to give Apple some free advise, it would be to make spare parts available at a cheap price so older PB users can become computer repair hobbiests with rim parts, keyboard, connection door, battery, and even main body panels.

I find that Apple users buy new Macs not simply because their old computer is old, but becaus the new tech is just so cool. I would think parts sales cheap would encourage 2nd Mac ownership by existing leading egde G5 buyers.

Rocketman

[Belly-laughs]

I only wonder why my local Apple re-seller walks around in town with a huge grin on his face.

It really annoys me. Maybe he knows...

[new user]

i'm still waiting despite the fact that i promised to buy late august. just couldn't stand seeing an updated pb a month after i buy mine, plus there were issues with the current line that i hope an update would remedy.

nonetheless, isn't it indisputable that pb will be updated? i don't remember inventory being rundown to the current levels unless an update is forthcoming. not in june, july, or august. but now, it seems widely accepted and with a concerted effort that there is no reason to maintain anything but for as needed stock.

doesn't this also bold well for the fact that shipment will be soon after announcement?

or at least i am hoping all the above is true.

[VicMacs]

Originally posted by magitekkn
I can't think of anything in Panther that is anymore processor hungry on a grand scale than in Jaguar. If anything, friends of mine have said that Panther Betas run faster on their iBooks than Jaguar.


ive tested panther 7B53 on a powerbook G4 500 and it does run faster than when it had jaguar with everything loaded on it.. but most people have panther installed with maybe a couple of apps but nothing else.. because nobody wants to have their files on a beta system.. but what about when you have everything loaded on your G3.. will it be snappy enough? I'm only saying that imho the G3 has been maxed out, it's time to move on up. And I believe panther was developped for the architecture of the g5 processor and the G4 processor.. Becasue when you run jaguar on a g4 and compare it to a g3 the difference is wide... I don't know... they dissed the imac g3 a while ago, it only seems fitting to let the g3 ibook go... leave it there for a while until they run out and it could sell cheap for like 700-900.. then put it to rest and get everyone on a g4 ... because I don't think that the g5 laptop is gonna be here anytime soon... a year from now maybe? apple has to sell things in order to better them... they cant just update machines every 6 months and processors every year...

[jxyama]

my 2 cents...

i think all the talk about delays in the PB being protecting G5 and such is kind of off.

i highly doubt that apple would delay updating a laptop (15" Ti) that has been in desparate need of an upgrade just to protect the thunder of an entirely different machine - g5 desktop. i'm not sure whose fault it is, but laptop delay was not "intentional." if updated PBs were ready well before g5, it would have been announced before WWDC. if it was ready around the time g5 were (any time between july and now, since g5 is hardly shipping yet) apple would have announced it at WWDC. who wouldn't have welcomed a dual punched keynote - g5 will come in sept, updated g4 pb ready now at WWDC?

i think it was simply some inability to make the upgrade... and i sure hope it's coming soon.

[chazmox]

Originally posted by Photorun
...some with people who know engineering, have said that with the current die and specs of the current (note: the current) G5 there's no way to put them into a laptop...Heat, even clocking the chip down, would be more than the current Powerbook enclosure to handle...

Actually, I agree with alot of what you said about Apple fans getting their hopes up and such, but again alot of what you stated above is opinion.

The G5, at 1.2 Ghz, is not hotter than the 7455 or the 7457.

G5 at 1.2 GHz = 19 Watts
7455 @ 1GHz = 15.8W(typ)/22W(Max)
7457 @ 1.3GHz = 18.7W(typ)/26W(Max)

Looking at it from these numbers the G5 offers more "bang" for your battery. Interestingly, the 7457 was supposed to support better power consumption numbers, but at 1GHz it is the same as the 7455.

Again, I wouldn't bet money on a G5 powerbook, but I am also not saying it can't happen...

[greenstork]

Originally posted by VicMacs
apple has to sell things in order to better them... they cant just update machines every 6 months and processors every year...

While I agree with you that the likely update is a G4, I simply don't buy this reasoning. Computer speed, on average, doubles every 18 months (according to Moore's Law (http://www.pcwebopedia.com/TERM/M/Moores_Law.html)). Dell updates their machines much more frequently than Apple, just without the fanfare. Apple owners have become so accustomed to the fanfare of the Stevenote, but updates in computing happen frequently and should darn well be expected to, lest Apple fall behind. Thank goodness for the G5, else there would be many unhappy trolls on this board, mumbling incoherently about Motorola and bus speed.

[greenstork]

Originally posted by jxyama
if it was ready around the time g5 were (any time between july and now, since g5 is hardly shipping yet) apple would have announced it at WWDC.

Just to confirm. If updated G4 PB's were shipping at WWDC, you don't think that it would have eaten into G5 PM sales with owners waiting in limbo for 3 months for their Power Macs?

I tend to agree that Apple simply did not have the stocks at WWDC or until recently for that matter. However, I do think it would have stolen at least some thunder and sales from such a monumental annoucement as the G5.

edit: The G5 after all, does deserve some limelight.

[LegionCSUF]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
Yeah, I've heard about MHz myth, pipelines and cach, but don't try to tell me that the 1GHz is as fast as the 3GHz Pentium, thats just stupid!

As someone that uses and programs for both platform (Windows, Linux, Mac OS X, etc), allow me to say that you would be surprised.

Will a 3GHz P4 outpace a 1GHz G4 in most tests? Yes. Will it do so by a large significant margin? Not really.

Of course, there's an extent of apples-vs-oranges involved. Are you running Windows on the P4? Well that drags the P4 down a bit. OS X fares better in that regard. Build a Linux optimized for the specific processor, and it will smoke either OS. But Linux isn't quite so clean and easy for everyone to use.

Speed can't be defined only by CPU tests. There's more to it. Is a computer that is twice as fast, but crashes or locks up twice as often and requires frequent reboots, truly the faster machine? Faster for tests, but nothing slows down <b>real work</b> to a crawl like having to restart a computer or troubleshoot a software/driver conflict.

I'm not going to say "Windows constantly crashes and Macintosh never does", because it's not that simple and clear cut. But the amount of time one has to dedicate to handling crashes, drivers, and other system management things on the Mac is far less than that of other OSs (even my beloved Linux).

[the_dalex]

"Centrino" is simply a marketing term Intel uses to help sell the products that computer manufacturers are ignoring in favor of better/cheaper solutions. Intel will give a ton of marketing money to cover advertising costs as long as a computer manufacturer pushes the Centrino name and uses the logo. This way, they can sell their 802.11b wireless chip (which is overpriced and outdated) and their mobo chipset, when many manufacturers would rather just use the Pentium M chip, which is admittedly very nice. Usually, the wireless chip is the weak link, but the mobo chipset ain't bad.

I learned all this when an Intel rep came into my store before the Centrino launch and started spouting marketing jargon... you know, talking about how great something is without even saying what it really does?

[tizza]

Well I'll be very disappointed if the 12'' isn't updated at Paris. I've been holding out for so long now, and even if G5 PB's were to come out in 6 months that's just too long to wait. I'll be ready to hit the order button the moment after the keynote ... :)

[DakotaGuy]

I am not defending Moto, because they have let down Apple fans for a long time, but if the 7457 would allow them to scale the processor higher, with the improved L2 cache, and get a faster bus in it with true DDR support, which won't happen, but if it did I think a lot of people would be very suprised how a 1.25 Ghz 7457 would compare performance wise with a 1.25 G5 especially in Alti-Vec aware apps.

[NoPrideELF]

Originally posted by greenstork
The G5 after all, does deserve some limelight.

It sure does, doesn't it? As it would in a Powerbook in Paris. Now, no, i honestly don't think we will get it next week, but I am at least 80% sure that the technology is already available for putting it in a laptop, apple probably just did not begin development on it as early as was humanly possible.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by natebailey11
Did nobody else see this? If there is any validity to this what so ever, wow... immediate shipping. I'm not one to speculate, but I wanted to make sure others saw this so that someone can speculate on it! :)

I think the rep was blowing sunshine up Maxx Power's butt. Look at what happened when the iSight was released. There was reports of these new boxes sitting in the back. There were leaks.
If a new PowerBook was already out there someone would have reported on it by now.

[Bruja]

Originally posted by NoPrideELF
It sure does, doesn't it? As it would in a Powerbook in Paris. Now, no, i honestly don't think we will get it next week, but I am at least 80% sure that the technology is already available for putting it in a laptop, apple probably just did not begin development on it as early as was humanly possible. Yeah.. you may be right :( But if they do make it availble to the public at the end of the week, do you think Bram Stoker's Dracula would look good on it?? Heeellll Yeah!!

[the_dalex]

As a university computer store manager, here is a summary of what I've seen and my speculation:

---In six weeks, we have received a total of 5 PB SuperDrive 15" models out of 150 ordered, and that one shipment was a month ago.

---In the same six weeks, we've received almost all of the 15" ComboDrive units we ordered, and we just got 13 this week so the production hasn't stopped on those (it slowed but didn't stop).

Speculation:

Apple needed every 1Ghz+ specced G4 chip for the new models that are coming out... if they speed bump, then the 12" models and 15" ComboDrive will probably be up to 1Ghz with the SuperDrive and 17" models sporting a 1.25-1.4Ghz chip. So, they aren't shipping 1Ghz 15" currently because they are saving the chips for the new line (which is probably being built now, so not saved per se, but in use)... and they are shipping 867 chipped laptops like mad because they will no longer have a place in the new PB lineup.

If they were using a G5, they would still be shipping 1Ghz Powerbooks, because those chips would be obsolete once G5 laptops were announced, and they wouldn't have any reason to stop making the current models. However, they did stop production on the Supers, obviously, as we can all see by the barren sales channels.

The good news? I fully expect them to have models ready to ship once they are announced. They had two options: announce new models before they are ready, which means they are tied into to a set of specs/pricing (and get flamed for slow shipments), OR do what they did... do all the production work up front, and then have people wait for the announcement.

I think we can all agree that we would rather have the info early and wait for shipments... this is a horrible way to do business, because they have missed every ship date they estimated for the Supers. I have customers coming in on a daily basis, very angry at me because they have classwork to do and Apple was giving us bad information. Of course, I'm the one who gets blamed... all because they don't want to communicate their plans. I almost have to come to work in an asbestos trenchcoat now...

[legion]

Originally posted by eric67
this is true up to now, but Intel plans to release Celeron Centrino; so indeed then Centrino at the end will simply mean with wireless capacities.
Actually it also means processor speed management, so it means that the processor clock when not required goes down, so a 1.6GHz P4M might go 1.0 or even less when there is no intensive request, that is the way that Intel has chosen to extent battery life...

No, you are wrong. The next Centrino product group includes the code-named PentiumM chip Dothan (90nm production, 2MB L2 cache.) (The current PentiumM chip codenamed Banias is 130nm production, 1MB L2 cache, max 1.7Ghz.) There would be no need or place for a celeron centrino; the current ULV 900Mhz Pentium M chip outperforms the celeron.

Centrino, as stated before by others, is merely the package of mobo chipset, wireless card, and Pentium M chip (NOT Pentium 4 M-- these are substantially different chips.) Each of the three groups will be continously updated, but they want to sell them as a group package to OEMs by enticing them with marketing money.

The means for increasing battery life for the Pentium M is through dynamic adjusting of processor speed (8 steps, IIRC) and some below 1Ghz. Average draw of these processors over longterm use is 1watt. This is built into the chip and controlled by the mobo set; both are required.

[Maxx Power]

Let's hope something really really good comes abouts next week. I'm just wanting a new computer that will store my music, do work, and play a few games on every once in a while before i get old and get bored of fake things. Hurry up apple, it's fall, and golden apples are being harvested...

[matznentosh]

Originally posted by the_dalex
As a university computer store manager, here is a summary of what I've seen and my speculation:
...
Speculation:

Apple needed every 1Ghz+ specced G4 chip for the new models that are coming out... if they speed bump, then the 12" models and 15" ComboDrive will probably be up to 1Ghz with the SuperDrive and 17" models sporting a 1.25-1.4Ghz chip. So, they aren't shipping 1Ghz 15" currently because they are saving the chips for the new line (which is probably being built now, so not saved per se, but in use)... and they are shipping 867 chipped laptops like mad because they will no longer have a place in the new PB lineup.

If they were using a G5, they would still be shipping 1Ghz Powerbooks, because those chips would be obsolete once G5 laptops were announced, and they wouldn't have any reason to stop making the current models. However, they did stop production on the Supers, obviously, as we can all see by the barren sales channels.

The good news? I fully expect them to have models ready to ship once they are announced. They had two options: announce new models before they are ready, which means they are tied into to a set of specs/pricing (and get flamed for slow shipments), OR do what they did... do all the production work up front, and then have people wait for the announcement.

This is by far the most reasonable speculation I've seen yet. Very persuasive logic, it explains the peculiar dearth of most powerbooks combined with peculiar availability of some models.

[new user]

Originally posted by matznentosh
This is by far the most reasonable speculation I've seen yet. Very persuasive logic, it explains the peculiar dearth of most powerbooks combined with peculiar availability of some models.


except the chips could be for the ibook update, and something new, i would guess g4 (57) but wildly as well g5, could be install for pb.

doesn't preclude ongoing speculation. though i can accept the logic and would be happy with it as long as there is actually an update.

we'll see next week.

[zync]

Let it go please! no one is predicting a g5 exept you wannabees - oh i hope there will be a g5 powerbook so i can open word faster. everyone in the know says g4. deal with it already.

I don't think it's going to happen but it's possible and in case you haven't noticed, everyone "in the know" has kept their mouth shut on this topic. It is however possible if development for a Powerbook G5 had started around the time for the Powermac G5, which it most assuredly did. They have not held out so that the PM G5's could sell either because most people don't shop for a desktop and then buy a laptop or vice versa. That doesn't make any sense at all.

As a university computer store manager, here is a summary of what I've seen and my speculation...

I agree with what you said. While I still believe it is possible that Apple has produced a PB G5 it's not very probable. Also, the PB development team has had plenty of time in excess of the PM G5 team to complete the PB. Still, it takes much longer to create a laptop, especially one with Powerbook like stature, than a desktop, granted the chassis for the Powermac is complicated for a desktop. Oh, and if you want to believe in nonsense assure yourself that every single engineer at Apple worked on the Powermac G5, until it was complete and then said, "Well let's get started on the rest of the computers now!"

As for myself, I am torn now between this update and a Powerbook G5. I'd like the G5 and if they gave me a date that it would come out I'd be ecstatic and could wait. But Apple always seems able to screw me over so I'm not sure if I should buy now or wait. My current old Dell POS that I traded for is falling apart. I need a nice new system but I'm not sure what to do. So I have an unbased hope for a PB G5, though I believe we'll see another G4. Still, Jobs announcing it may suprise us. He may have much more up his sleeve than a mere 1.25 GHz G4. This update has been a long time coming and I think the problem hasn't been Motorola's, but time consumed in engineering better chips.

That's just my $1.50....

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by the_dalex

I have customers coming in on a daily basis, very angry at me because they have classwork to do and Apple was giving us bad information. Of course, I'm the one who gets blamed... all because they don't want to communicate their plans. I almost have to come to work in an asbestos trenchcoat now...

Wow talk about immature little brats. They need a timeout when college kids act like that.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by zync
I don't think it's going to happen but it's possible and in case you haven't noticed, everyone "in the know" has kept their mouth shut on this topic. It is however possible if development for a Powerbook G5 had started around the time for the Powermac G5, which it most assuredly did. They have not held out so that the PM G5's could sell either because most people don't shop for a desktop and then buy a laptop or vice versa. That doesn't make any sense at all.




See this logic doesn't track. If they had been working on a G5 laptop do you actually believe they would have skipped the back to school rush? Apple isn't insane. They wouldn't skip the back to school rush. If they had a parallel project going on alongside the PowerMac they would have either timed it to release this summer for back to school or released a G4 chip. Also the lower end G5's aren't totally in short supplies. Do you think Apple would have let stock dwindle for months if they had a new product right around the corner. If they had a product they would have announced it if for no other reason to get those preorders flowing.
It makes more sense that something was holding them back from shipping causing strained supplies of PB's. And I'll bet that something was Moto.


G5's aren't happening. Maybe 1st or 2nd qt but not this year.

[MadMan]

Originally posted by natebailey11
Did nobody else see this? If there is any validity to this what so ever, wow... immediate shipping. I'm not one to speculate, but I wanted to make sure others saw this so that someone can speculate on it! :)

I saw it:D

And I'm there too. In any regard, I can wait no longer. New PB's or not, G5 or G4, I'm getting a new one after the keynote...

Which one is up to my good friend Steve

:cool:

MM

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by greenstork
That Apple has waited this long to update PB's for a couple of reasons:

1) Not to take away anything from G5 sales, publicity, etc.

This is a probably true, especially with laptops gaining ground over desktops in marketshare.

2) To make sure that they sell updated G4's PB's by backing up the pipeline of PB buyers. Since many people have waited so long, there are many folks just chomping at the bit to buy a new PB and waiting on the next update. By keeping people waiting, boom, when they releasae them, they sell like hotcakes.

This is a good idea, in theory. However, it only works if you have enough stock built up to meet initial demand, something Apple never seems to be able to do. That last time Apple actually had enough of something at its release, they were still selling beige computers. The worst consquence example of this is the G4 downgrade a few days after its introduction.

This is why I think PB's will have a G4. They will eeeek out one last big run on G4 PB's and release the G5 PB early next year.

I agree. But it may be the Summer Macworld before the G5 Powerbook arrives. It will use the .65 micron 970 (or whatever is gleaned from the Power5), not the current spec 970.

[chazmox]

Originally posted by the_dalex
As a university computer store manager, here is a summary of what I've seen and my speculation:

---In six weeks, we have received a total of 5 PB SuperDrive 15" models out of 150 ordered, and that one shipment was a month ago.

---In the same six weeks, we've received almost all of the 15" ComboDrive units we ordered, and we just got 13 this week so the production hasn't stopped on those (it slowed but didn't stop).

Speculation:

Apple needed every 1Ghz+ specced G4 chip for the new models that are coming out... if they speed bump, then the 12" models and 15" ComboDrive will probably be up to 1Ghz with the SuperDrive and 17" models sporting a 1.25-1.4Ghz chip. So, they aren't shipping 1Ghz 15" currently because they are saving the chips for the new line (which is probably being built now, so not saved per se, but in use)... and they are shipping 867 chipped laptops like mad because they will no longer have a place in the new PB lineup.

If they were using a G5, they would still be shipping 1Ghz Powerbooks, because those chips would be obsolete once G5 laptops were announced, and they wouldn't have any reason to stop making the current models. However, they did stop production on the Supers, obviously, as we can all see by the barren sales channels.

The good news? I fully expect them to have models ready to ship once they are announced. They had two options: announce new models before they are ready, which means they are tied into to a set of specs/pricing (and get flamed for slow shipments), OR do what they did... do all the production work up front, and then have people wait for the announcement.

I think we can all agree that we would rather have the info early and wait for shipments... this is a horrible way to do business, because they have missed every ship date they estimated for the Supers. I have customers coming in on a daily basis, very angry at me because they have classwork to do and Apple was giving us bad information. Of course, I'm the one who gets blamed... all because they don't want to communicate their plans. I almost have to come to work in an asbestos trenchcoat now...

Your theory doesn't explain why the 17 inch models have been unconstrained. I have been following out-of-stock issues through MacPrices for 6 weeks now. The 12 inch and both 15 inch models have been far more constrained than the 17 inch. Therefore it doesn't seem related to either the 867 or the 1 Ghz G4.

[hose this!]

Originally posted by aras
Ok - let me ask this: how much faster might a G5 underclocked at say 1.2 ghz in a powerbook be than a 1.25 ghz G4 ?

Would there be a difference? For which applications? I understand something of the G5 architechture is much better, but in day to day performance? Until 10.3?

It's a 64-bit processor, mate.

32. 64. 32. 64.

Think about what this means in terms of how software is going to be developed for Macs from this point forward.

[codestr]

Well well.....
all year the 15" power book has been missing from the gallary. http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/
But the link on the PB15 page http://www.apple.com/powerbook/index15.html still went to the Quick time for the 15"TiBook.... untill today...
Check it out
http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/pbg4_nov2002_480.html

Maybe, Just Maybe... we'll get something.

[hose this!]

Originally posted by mania
Let it go please! no one is predicting a g5 exept you wannabees - oh i hope there will be a g5 powerbook so i can open word faster. everyone in the know says g4. deal with it already.

You know what?

At this point, a G4 update isn't a PowerBook update, it's an iBook update.

We're not the ones that need to deal. It's going to be Apple that has to deal with lackluster sales around this latest update if it is a G4.

You see people stampeding to buy the new iMacs?

[Mineral]

All I know is that I have my money ready and my mouse finger ready to click "buy" on the Apple Store whenever they update the PB's.. and I can't wait!

I'm excited about next week.. I know Apple won't let me down.. even if it's just a faster and/or cheaper PB G4, I don't care.. I just want a good, solid, reliable Apple notebook.

12" PB's are currently on 7-10 day shipping waiting times.. so take that for what it's worth. (guess what happens in 4 days? ;) )

[hose this!]

Originally posted by the_dalex
I think we can all agree that we would rather have the info early and wait for shipments... this is a horrible way to do business, because they have missed every ship date they estimated for the Supers. I have customers coming in on a daily basis, very angry at me because they have classwork to do and Apple was giving us bad information. Of course, I'm the one who gets blamed... all because they don't want to communicate their plans. I almost have to come to work in an asbestos trenchcoat now...

You're right. This is all your fault. :D

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by hose this!
It's a 64-bit processor, mate.

32. 64. 32. 64.

Think about what this means in terms of how software is going to be developed for Macs from this point forward.

Not much, considering that for the next few years 90% of the Macs will still be 32bit machines.

[panphage]

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
I am not defending Moto, because they have let down Apple fans for a long time, but if the 7457 would allow them to scale the processor higher, with the improved L2 cache, and get a faster bus in it with true DDR support, which won't happen, but if it did I think a lot of people would be very suprised how a 1.25 Ghz 7457 would compare performance wise with a 1.25 G5 especially in Alti-Vec aware apps.


The 7457 has no DDR support. Maybe a future rev. of the chip will, but would they still call it a 7457? That's be a new chip to me. Also, where is Moto suddenly going to get the R&D chops to increase the bus speed of the G4? Or scale the clock speed at an industry-matching pace? They spent a year at 500Mhz back when they still had some decent people in their Microprocessor division. All of those fine engineers have moved on to AMD. Motorolla has no interest in developing chips for desktop computers, they've said as much more than once. They even put their micro division up for sale. Maybe AMD should buy it and kick out chips for apple.

Then again, AMD (whose chips I happen to love, they were my refuge from Intel before OS X rescued me from the entire Wintel world) is not really known for producing low-power, low-heat parts, are they?

[yujini]

Announcing a new model and then making the consumers wait is a very bad idea. There has been cases where a company would go bankrupt just because they announced it ahead of time.
(The reason why they went bankrupt? After announcing the new product, everyone waited, and they couldnt get enough R&D and poof it's a goner)

The only people that wait are the people who read macrumors and all those mac websites.

A lot of my friends went and bought the current powerbooks without knowing there would be an update soon.

If apple did announce the new powerbooks ahead of time even the people who don't really have knowledge about the updated for powerbooks would wait.

Though I hope it would be a G5 next week, I don't think apple would just throw away the 7457 chips and go straight to G5s.
(Since they didn't use the 7457 chips on the iMac either. Maybe iBooks?)

[art399]

Originally posted by hose this!
It's a 64-bit processor, mate.

32. 64. 32. 64.

Think about what this means in terms of how software is going to be developed for Macs from this point forward.

Not so simple. AFAIK, simply moving from 32-bit to 64-bit probably won't make much of a noticable difference at all unless you run certain types of apps(which of course woudl have to be compiled for 64 bit) that are high-bandwith/CPU-intensive, i.e. enterprise and scientific mainly. Now, there's a lot more to the G5 than just 64-bit. Apple likes to advertise the 64-bitness because it's a number, it sticks in your head, and it's double what other desktop cpu's are...it's pure marketing. The benefit most would see from the G5 would be in the new architecture in general, not strictly from the 64-bitness, so you can't simply say "32. 64. Duh!".

[eric67]

Originally posted by legion
No, you are wrong. The next Centrino product group includes the code-named PentiumM chip Dothan (90nm production, 2MB L2 cache.) (The current PentiumM chip codenamed Banias is 130nm production, 1MB L2 cache, max 1.7Ghz.) There would be no need or place for a celeron centrino; the current ULV 900Mhz Pentium M chip outperforms the celeron.

Centrino, as stated before by others, is merely the package of mobo chipset, wireless card, and Pentium M chip (NOT Pentium 4 M-- these are substantially different chips.) Each of the three groups will be continously updated, but they want to sell them as a group package to OEMs by enticing them with marketing money.

The means for increasing battery life for the Pentium M is through dynamic adjusting of processor speed (8 steps, IIRC) and some below 1Ghz. Average draw of these processors over longterm use is 1watt. This is built into the chip and controlled by the mobo set; both are required.

where am I wrong???
you just explained in more details what I have just said concerning the meaning of centrino (wireless+processor clock adjustment,...)
you disagree only on the Celeron Centrino, then I am sorry but I have read it somewhere on a PC web site, if this is wrong i am sorry
but indeed centrino is more a marketing than technology; it was possible to make a processor including clock adjustement and have a wireless card inside.. without giving it a brand name "centrino", it is a bit like : how to make something new from something already existing....

[eric67]

Originally posted by Mineral
All I know is that I have my money ready and my mouse finger ready to click "buy" on the Apple Store whenever they update the PB's.. and I can't wait!

I'm excited about next week.. I know Apple won't let me down.. even if it's just a faster and/or cheaper PB G4, I don't care.. I just want a good, solid, reliable Apple notebook.

12" PB's are currently on 7-10 day shipping waiting times.. so take that for what it's worth. (guess what happens in 4 days? ;) )

here is what will come
12" and 15" @ 1GHz
17" @ 1.25GHz
all with Firewire800, USB2, ....
I can not say more

[jaedreth]

I can :)

FUEL CELLS!

Year of the Notebook!

No longer do you have to worry about battery life or battery drain. Only have to worry about keeping the thing cooled.

Cram in the technology!

Jaedreth

(I know if I'm wrong I'll look like an idiot. But if I'm right I'll look like a genius. Kinda funny. Because I haven't changed in either case. I am what I am.)

[mvc]

Originally posted by jaedreth

FUEL CELLS!
No longer do you have to worry about battery life or battery drain. Only have to worry about keeping the thing cooled…


…and where in hell you are going to find replacement methanol cartridges in Saigon/Naples/Montana at 4 in the morning when you can't be plugged in for some reason or other.

Ever had to buy a 35mm film/Spare flash card/MiniDV tape in some out of the way location when you run out - thats the pitfall of consumables rather than rechargeables.

'Course, you could carry a couple of large bottles of a suitable hi-proof alchohol around to recharge both your body and your laptop! :D

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by panphage
The 7457 has no DDR support. Maybe a future rev. of the chip will, but would they still call it a 7457? That's be a new chip to me.
Early Moto roadmaps were talking about the 7457RM, which, IIRC, was supposed to receive a full fledged implementation of DDR bus. But I also remember information a few months back (were they rumours? I can't remember) saying that Moto had dropped that chip...

Oh well...

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by eric67
here is what will come
12" and 15" @ 1GHz
17" @ 1.25GHz
all with Firewire800, USB2, ....
I can not say more
You will agree with me that if you are right, seeing the 15" at 1GHz is a massive let-down. Also I don't believe in FW800 on the 12". But wtf do I know anyway?

(On a side note: Allez les Bleus!)

West Side

[tomf87]

Originally posted by NicoMan
You will agree with me that if you are right, seeing the 15" at 1GHz is a massive let-down. Also I don't believe in FW800 on the 12". But wtf do I know anyway?

(On a side note: Allez les Bleus!)

West Side

From www.apple-history.com, I found that the PowerMac G4 was introduced in September 1999. The PowerBook G4 was introduced in January 2001.

Why should the G4 to G5 transition for PowerBook happen so quickly? The only reason I could see is the 1.2Ghz G5 (anyone know for sure if these even exist?). But then, with Apple trying to get the PowerMac G5 out the door, I doubt they would try to push two new models with two new processors out as well.

So, maybe they will give the PB's a boost in the G4 realm and G5's next year.

Just to ask so I can go down in some real flames, is there a PowerBook user out there that needs (not just wants) G5 power? From what I've seen all over, everyone agrees that the G5's power is in video editing and what not. If that's the case, the G5 in the PB isn't going to be that useful, as it still has the old PCI bus and not PCI-X.

Someone shoot me before I go on too long... *BANG* Thanks.

[hose this!]

Originally posted by SeaFox
Not much, considering that for the next few years 90% of the Macs will still be 32bit machines.

You know, when OSX was launched, 99.99% of the Macs were running OS 9.x.

Who's still developing for OS 9.x now?

[hose this!]

Originally posted by art399
Not so simple. AFAIK, simply moving from 32-bit to 64-bit probably won't make much of a noticable difference at all unless you run certain types of apps(which of course woudl have to be compiled for 64 bit) that are high-bandwith/CPU-intensive, i.e. enterprise and scientific mainly. Now, there's a lot more to the G5 than just 64-bit. Apple likes to advertise the 64-bitness because it's a number, it sticks in your head, and it's double what other desktop cpu's are...it's pure marketing. The benefit most would see from the G5 would be in the new architecture in general, not strictly from the 64-bitness, so you can't simply say "32. 64. Duh!".

I'm not talking about what makes the G5 faster/better than its 32 bit predecessors. I'm talking about the way software will be developed for the Mac going forward. If you think the future is in 32-bit software after the release of a 64-bit processor that Apple will begin to migrate its entire product line to, I have some swampland in Florida I'd like to sell you...

[OSXconvert]

The G4 is dead. Motorolla is worthless. Hopefully Apple will dump the G4 for the powerbooks and just move on with slow G5s. Even 1-1.3 Ghz G5 would be better than a speed-bumped G4. As others have pointed out the G5 at 1.25Ghz burns 19W, about the same as the G4 @ 1Ghz. So why bother with the G4? Duals can't happen so soon without better ventilation. Just put a 1.25Ghz G5 in the first gen G5 powerbook and wait until next year for the fab size to drop down to up the speed. I have never been impressed with the G4, it has always been underwhelming. Better to have a new chip with a fast bus which Apple is dedicating programming resources to.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by hose this!
I'm not talking about what makes the G5 faster/better than its 32 bit predecessors. I'm talking about the way software will be developed for the Mac going forward. If you think the future is in 32-bit software after the release of a 64-bit processor that Apple will begin to migrate its entire product line to, I have some swampland in Florida I'd like to sell you...
I see your point, but even though the future of Apple is with the G5 and its successors, how long is it till Apple shuts down support for the 32-bit chips (G3, G4 anyone ?). If you can hold your breath for a good 5 to 7 years, then... you are good. See? G3+G4 will represent the vast majority of chips in Apple computers for at least 5 years. Hence the boldness of your statement...

eTurkey1998

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by hose this!
You know, when OSX was launched, 99.99% of the Macs were running OS 9.x.

Who's still developing for OS 9.x now?
The difference is, you can upgrade with a CD ($100-ish... Smallish pill to swallow). Try and upgrade with a CD your 32-bit processor to a 64-bit processor... You see what I mean?
The thing is, what is going to happen is developpers will insert flags in their programs to take advantage of the 64-bit addressing if it's available. They are not gonna abandon 32-bit chips or make their program incompatible with those just yet (I think).

eGoat1997

[the_dalex]

Your theory doesn't explain why the 17 inch models have been unconstrained. I have been following out-of-stock issues through MacPrices for 6 weeks now. The 12 inch and both 15 inch models have been far more constrained than the 17 inch. Therefore it doesn't seem related to either the 867 or the 1 Ghz G4.


The 17" model is much less popular than the 15" model (mainly because of price). They could allocate enough chips to continue production without affecting the 15" production in any significant way. For every one 17-inch PB I sell, I sell twenty 15-inch and ten 12-inch. Also, the lower popularity of the 17" means that many retailers still have stock and production demands are low. Apple is building-to-order as necessary on 12-inch, but had 17-inch inventory available for a while so the channels aren't nearly as empty (I think they originally forecasted much greater demand, they just priced themselves too high). They aren't delaying on the 12-inch, they're just gaining in popularity. Plus, if they are going to refresh the 12-inch, they want stock levels to be low so that they don't need to do much price protection for resellers.

Apple just shipped us another 16 combodrive 15-inchers. Are they going to continue selling two versions if the 15's with different clocks? That's the question I'm most interested in answering... I imagine they might get rid of the 15" combo altogether.

I'm really mad about the iPods... they are pushing a $200 rebate on iPods with a laptop purchase, yet my 10GB models have been on backorder for a month now. I wish they would actually ship the stuff they tell my students to buy... of course, our local Apple store has plenty.

[eric67]

Originally posted by NicoMan
You will agree with me that if you are right, seeing the 15" at 1GHz is a massive let-down. Also I don't believe in FW800 on the 12". But wtf do I know anyway?

(On a side note: Allez les Bleus!)

West Side

Yes I will agree, but it is definately not Apple's fault, and I hope here people will understand, motorola has been the main limiting factor... and maybe still is....

[Raveny]

<I found that the PowerMac G4 was introduced in September 1999. The PowerBook G4 was introduced in January 2001.>



When you look at apple-history again you will notice that the G3 Powerbook came out at the same time with the G3 Powermac! And now the G5 is also from IBM like the G3s. And I think that after 10+ month there can't be just a 0.25 speed bump.

When Steve Jobs announce new Powerbooks in Paris there won't be another keynote with new PB from SJ in the new future. Or do you think that he comes up with PB again in 6 month or so? Either it will be the G5 PB or a G4 with an extra. If G4 is in it the G5 will come out later than early 2004.

Sorry for any mistakes. I don't have written or spoken English for 2 years.

Greetings

[art399]

Originally posted by hose this!
I'm not talking about what makes the G5 faster/better than its 32 bit predecessors. I'm talking about the way software will be developed for the Mac going forward. If you think the future is in 32-bit software after the release of a 64-bit processor that Apple will begin to migrate its entire product line to, I have some swampland in Florida I'd like to sell you...

Fair enough, and i agree, but i was responding to your response to the question:


Ok - let me ask this: how much faster might a G5 underclocked at say 1.2 ghz in a powerbook be than a 1.25 ghz G4 ?

Would there be a difference? For which applications? I understand something of the G5 architechture is much better, but in day to day performance? Until 10.3?


The question is, how much of a difference *now*, for day-to-day apps...not a couple years down the road.

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by eric67
Yes I will agree, but it is definately not Apple's fault, and I hope here people will understand, motorola has been the main limiting factor... and maybe still is....

Well, Apple chose the supplier and Apple make the computers, so who's fault is it? I have no relationshiip with Motorola as a consumer, so I don't see why I should hold them and not Apple responsible when something seems wrong.

If you couldn't buy a seafood meal at a reasturant because they had run out, it's their fault for underestimating demand, not the fishes fault for failing to swim into the nets.

[machem]

Originally posted by Raveny
<I found that the PowerMac G4 was introduced in September 1999. The PowerBook G4 was introduced in January 2001.>



When you look at apple-history again you will notice that the G3 Powerbook came out at the same time with the G3 Powermac! And now the G5 is also from IBM like the G3s. And I think that after 10+ month there can't be just a 0.25 speed bump.

When Steve Jobs announce new Powerbooks in Paris there won't be another keynote with new PB from SJ in the new future. Or do you think that he comes up with PB again in 6 month or so? Either it will be the G5 PB or a G4 with an extra. If G4 is in it the G5 will come out a later than early 2004.

Sorry for any mistakes. I don't have written or spoken English for 2 years.

Greetings

I think it is quite irrelevant to use release dates of previous G3 desktops/laptops or release dates of G4 desktops/laptops as evidence of a G5 laptop's release. Clearly, it has been done both ways. If Apple is ready to put a G5 in a Powerbook, they will. It would be a huge revenue enhancer ;) and would raise their stature. There would be no reason to hold back, despite what conspiracy theorists say.

Christmas, no sooner, I think, though I'd love to be proved wrong.

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by lord_flash
Well, Apple chose the supplier and Apple make the computers, so who's fault is it? I have no relationshiip with Motorola as a consumer, so I don't see why I should hold them and not Apple responsible when something seems wrong.

Because Apple is as much a victim as you. They want to relese that G4 Powerbook to you, believe me they do. But if they don't have the parts to make them, well, too bad. Apple didn't know Motorola was gonna be such trouble when they first enlisted them to make the processors. And they haven't changed suppliers because not that many companies are interested and there's the Altivec licensing.

If you couldn't buy a seafood meal at a reasturant because they had run out, it's their fault for underestimating demand, not the fishes fault for failing to swim into the nets.

That's assuming they are the only restaurant without fish. The problems here is just what you said - the fish failed to swim into the nets.

You're taking the classic whiny consumer view. Of corse you want to complain at Apple, you have only one degree of separation between you and them. It's far easier and more satisfying to your ego to yell at Apple than Motorola. Like all those videogame fans who yelled at Wal-Mart employees when the Playstation 2 came out and every store got less than six systems for the initail launch. Sony simply didn't have production ramped up for the demand, but people got mad at whoever was handy to scream at.

[Stelliform]

lord_flash and SeaFox both have valid points. Apple should plan to prevent this sort of delay, but you have to give them a break also.

Now, if after this significant delay Apple maintains their relationship with Motorola longer than they absolutely have to, while they are switching everything to IBM, then we can fault Apple.

[the_dalex]

You're taking the classic whiny consumer view. Of corse you want to complain at Apple, you have only one degree of separation between you and them. It's far easier and more satisfying to your ego to yell at Apple than Motorola. Like all those videogame fans who yelled at Wal-Mart employees when the Playstation 2 came out and every store got less than six systems for the initail launch. Sony simply didn't have production ramped up for the demand, but people got mad at whoever was handy to scream at.

That describes about half of my day, every day. I get to be between Apple and the consumer!

Apple's product line strategy has good and bad points. They try to keep products alive for 6-12 months without too much tweaking, keeping specs stable and dropping prices as needed. They only have 5 Powerbooks and 3 iBooks, and if you look at Dell or Gateway they have so many different models and configs that can change at a moment's notice.

In order for Apple to keep their lines stable, they need to have obvious product transitions. With Dell and Gateway, those transitions are sporadic and unpredictable, so people really don't notice them because they are implented slowly and quietly...it's based on whatever parts they happen to have in good quantity (and they sometimes substitute). In order for Apple to transition, they need time to shift gears, allow retail channels to drain (Dell and Gateway don't have stock-carrying resellers), and get the new product into the channel. This takes time, and that time either comes from a delayed product announcement like we are seeing, or an announcement that occurs well before the ship date. They learned that things sometimes need to be tweaked before final release, so I'm guessing they just didn't want to promise any specs and then have to deal with fallout if something didn't pan out. Good for them, bad for the customer, bad for business... if Apple had a real competitor for hardware, they would have a different business plan altogether.

It's tough when you need to replace a current product (especially your most popular one). It's easy when you introduce a new one, like the 12" and 17".

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by Raveny
When Steve Jobs announce new Powerbooks in Paris there won't be another keynote with new PB from SJ in the new future.

Why do everyone think that the keynote IS going to be about PBs? Who knows? Historically, Apple Expo hasn't been tremendously exciting (being french, I resent that). But then again, it could be different this time. Anyway... the point is, it could very well be a software-orientated keynote, with a short mention of new PBs and/or new iBooks (God save us all if it's only iBooks...).

eBeef1996 (I am running out of farm animals, someone please help me...)

[filmmaker2002]

Originally posted by tomf87
From www.apple-history.com, I found that the PowerMac G4 was introduced in September 1999. The PowerBook G4 was introduced in January 2001.

Why should the G4 to G5 transition for PowerBook happen so quickly? The only reason I could see is the 1.2Ghz G5 (anyone know for sure if these even exist?). But then, with Apple trying to get the PowerMac G5 out the door, I doubt they would try to push two new models with two new processors out as well.


Ah ha, that's the G4 my friend. If you take a look at the Power Macintosh G3 and the Powerbook G3, you will notice that BOTH were introduced in November of 1997. G3 is an IBM processor, as is the G5. I see no reason why this can't happen with an IBM processor again, especially considering the heat specs.

EDIT: Didn't mean to repeat something already mentioned...didn't read the rest of page 8.

[hose this!]

Originally posted by art399
Fair enough, and i agree, but i was responding to your response to the question:



The question is, how much of a difference *now*, for day-to-day apps...not a couple years down the road.

Sorry. My bad. It's just my belief that if I plunk down $2.5K for a laptop, it should still be able to keep up with the demands of the latest software a couple years down the road.

[hose this!]

Originally posted by NicoMan
The difference is, you can upgrade with a CD ($100-ish... Smallish pill to swallow). Try and upgrade with a CD your 32-bit processor to a 64-bit processor... You see what I mean?
The thing is, what is going to happen is developpers will insert flags in their programs to take advantage of the 64-bit addressing if it's available. They are not gonna abandon 32-bit chips or make their program incompatible with those just yet (I think).

eGoat1997

That's exactly my point though - it's a hell of a lot easier to upgrade to a major revision of the OS so long as it the hardware isn't the rate limiting factor. Yeah, you can run OSX on a G3, it may be a bit sluggish, but there's no technical limitation preventing you from doing it. Not so with the difference b/w a 32 bit and 64 bit architecture. The jump from a 32 bit architecture to a 64 bit architecture represents a major phase change, and with all phase changes, it will happen quicker and more comprehensively than people think.

I agree, I don't think developers will abandon the 32 bit market, but what industrial Mac app WON'T be touting "OPTIMISED for 64 bits!" a year from now? Hell, Adobe have already released a G5 plugin for Photoshop. You don't think they're optimising next gen software in development right now? You think Apple isn't going to optismise Final Cut Pro 2004 for a G5?

There's no big deal in running today's apps on an underclocked G5 vs. a 1.33MHz G4, but that's today. It may just be a generalisation on this board, but I think people who spend $2.5K on a laptop are expecting a bit more than just "what's good for today." And if they're not, they should be.

[doubting_me]

I think in some ways many of us (including rumors sites) have been barking up the wrong tree when it comes to Powerbook rumors.

My two cents:

When Apple released the 12 and 17 inch without updating the TiBook, it put itself in a real pickle. There were two obvious solutions. One would be to update the Tibook with the same specs into a Aluminum enclosure with bluetooth, APE, etc around April. It would have been a quiet announcement, and some people would have been mad. Anyway, Apple didn't, probably based on economic data that none of us have access to. Obviously demand, or market analysis showed the TiBook had life left in it and an Alum update wasn't necessary.

Once we crossed into July, however, now Apple couldn't update the TiBook enclosure and SPECS without updating the 12inch and 17inch or things would be out of whack, price / performance wise. So now Apple has to update all three. But we can't do that too soon, probably not because of customer ire, which Apple doesn't really worry about, but because economically there is always a lot of life in a first run, new enclosure system (The TiBook 400/500 when 3/4 of a year before getting even the piddliest of updates - 500/667 and 16 megs of VRAM). This is about the time we should be seeing a refresh of 12 and 17, and yes we are past due for the 15, but economically, the statistics probably pointed this direction as best.

I'm not saying there isn't a shortage of Moto 7457s. Probably is, but is it definite? There was a forum earlier discussing that Moto's own papers said the 7457s wouldn't ship until 3rd quarter (and my experience, which isn't the end all be all, is if it is fiscal year, you write "fiscal year.") and this is exactly what September is.

The iMac's are given this little update, and I can't imagine the Powerbooks having the same processor as the iMacs so we are looking at either 7457's or an G5 announcement with a much later release date.

Economically speaking and judging by the forums, Apple has done everything right. There are lots of us who are going to hit "Buy Now" as soon as we can at the Apple store on Tuesday, which will be great revenue, and Apple got a lot of legs out of the 12 and 17 inch, the former of which got them a back to school special with printer and iPod. I'm sure that moved a lot of units and selling iPods is great because it helps iTMS.

I remember when I was looking for a notebook and the G3 Pismo reigned king, and everyone on the rumor sites were predicting a G4 book at the August and September events and they didn't come out until January, 5 months later. Just like everyone wanted an updated 15 inch Powerbook in May but didn't come up till September. Sounds like those of us who are tech headie enough to actually peruse forums of rumor sites have about a 5 month-less attention span than the general public.

I'm not saying my theory is 100% correct, but maybe all the conspiracy isn't out there, and the 7457s are in the new Powerbooks... right on time.

[hose this!]

Originally posted by filmmaker2002
Ah ha, that's the G4 my friend. If you take a look at the Power Macintosh G3 and the Powerbook G3, you will notice that BOTH were introduced in November of 1997. G3 is an IBM processor, as is the G5. I see no reason why this can't happen with an IBM processor again, especially considering the heat specs.

I agree. There are some very smart cookies at IBM, and helped by deep pockets as well. You know, Apple isn't the only tech company with a healthy sense of vision.

[hose this!]

Originally posted by SeaFox
You're taking the classic whiny consumer view. Of corse you want to complain at Apple, you have only one degree of separation between you and them. It's far easier and more satisfying to your ego to yell at Apple than Motorola. Like all those videogame fans who yelled at Wal-Mart employees when the Playstation 2 came out and every store got less than six systems for the initail launch. Sony simply didn't have production ramped up for the demand, but people got mad at whoever was handy to scream at.

Consumers have every right to make demands as they see fit. Apple and everybody who works for them has a salary and a job to look forward to because we, the consumers, support them. It is not the other way around.

Motorola may be at fault for not delivering processors on time, but if Apple bills itself as a computer company, then they are ultimately responsible for delivering computers on time. Fine if they aren't the ones manufacturing processors, but whose decisions (and a bad one at that) was it to rely on a single manufacturer for such a critical part? At the very least, they should at least communicate with their customers about when they can expect new products. This is just a good, decent way of running a business - any business.

As far as all this nonsense about Apple not having a responsibility to deliver or reveal updates to their products in a timely manner, all I have to say is that the people who are positing these comments probably don't have a reliance on their computers (for work, life, etc.).

Not only that, but such practices are bad bad business. Imagine going to a grocery store for milk. They're out. You ask the guy behind the counter, "Hey, I'd like some milk - when are you going to get more in?" The guy looks at you indifferently and says, "We may be getting some in, but even if I knew, I'm not going to tell you when." So you leave in a huff and say "Well, I'm never going to shop THERE again. Especially when I can just go down the corner to the next store and buy..."

...but then that's the point. You really can't do that with Macs, can you? You do rely on a single supplier of computers to run the software you want, and in that sense - though perhaps not in totality - Apple IS a monopoly. To say that Apple in even the smallest way is not is completely ridiculous.

Think different.

Expect more. Demand more. They're here to serve us, not us to serve them.

This applies to our political institutions as well, BTW.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by filmmaker2002
Ah ha, that's the G4 my friend. If you take a look at the Power Macintosh G3 and the Powerbook G3, you will notice that BOTH were introduced in November of 1997. G3 is an IBM processor, as is the G5. I see no reason why this can't happen with an IBM processor again, especially considering the heat specs.

EDIT: Didn't mean to repeat something already mentioned...didn't read the rest of page 8.
I think there is a lot more to it than just the fact that IBM made the G3 available immediately for a laptop. The path that Apple has taken for their laptops (you know, extra slim metallic enclosures), since the original TiBook, is somewhat constraining: they can't just do a Dell and slap a new desktop chip in a big platic enclosure. Industrial design to get all the components together is becoming very important, not because Apple can, but because they need it for their laptops to give them an edge.

My 2 Euro cents.

[macphoria]

At this point, I would rather wait few more months and have G5 PowerBooks than semi updated G4 PowerBooks.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by hose this!
I agree, I don't think developers will abandon the 32 bit market, but what industrial Mac app WON'T be touting "OPTIMISED for 64 bits!" a year from now? Hell, Adobe have already released a G5 plugin for Photoshop. You don't think they're optimising next gen software in development right now? You think Apple isn't going to optismise Final Cut Pro 2004 for a G5?
OK I see what you are saying. I guess the only part where I disagree is the speed at which it happens and how it happens. You are saying that apps are going to be optimised for the G5 and rather soon. I would prefer to think that apps are going to be modified to be able to take advantage of the G5, when it's there, but they are still going to be G4 and G3-optimised. The 3 chips are all from the same family (PowerPC), they don't differ by THAT much in theory.
Hmm, who knows... On a different note, hardware change is a tricky issue. I would love to see, in the space of a few months, EVERYONE migrating to the G5 and software developpers producing a version of their soft WRITTEN FOR THE G5. As far as Apple are concerned, that would be fantastic. But irrealistic. So you still have to cater for the ppl that own G3s and G4s and can't (or won't) upgrade. Remember that those 2 chips, as of today, represent something like 4/5 of the Apple range on display at the Apple store, and everyone knows that Macs have, traditionnally, a very long life... So, you see, I don't view the change you are describing as being as quick radical as you do, but heh, it's just my opinion.

eTomato2001

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by doubting_me
Economically speaking and judging by the forums, Apple has done everything right.
That's the only point where I tend to disagree. I'm not saying that they COULD have done otherwise (timing of supply of 7457s), but it seems that their obsession with inventories (low to inexistant is what has been written for some time now) has deprived them of a lot of sales, especially for the back-to-school season.

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by hose this!
Consumers have every right to make demands as they see fit. Apple and everybody who works for them has a salary and a job to look forward to because we, the consumers, support them. It is not the other way around.

That doesn't give us license to blame them for factors beyond their control.

Motorola may be at fault for not delivering processors on time, but if Apple bills itself as a computer company, then they are ultimately responsible for delivering computers on time. Fine if they aren't the ones manufacturing processors, but whose decisions (and a bad one at that) was it to rely on a single manufacturer for such a critical part?

I like this assumption they have the choice. If there was a catastrophic problem at Intel and they couldn't produce faster CPU's, or any at all, do you think Dell can just call up AMD and say "Hey! Make me 30,000 3.5Ghz Pentium 4's will ya? Intel can't fill our demand."

PPC development treed off in two different directions when the Apple-IBM-Motorola relationship broke down. Just because IBM and Motorola are both making CPU's called "G4" by Apple marketing doesn't mean you can just dump one and swap in another when you run out of a specific part.

Apple did have IBM license a Motorola design to meet needed demand at a point in the past. But I'm sure Motorola had to agree to let IBM do that. Maybe they didn't want to let work get farmed out this time.

As far as all this nonsense about Apple not having a responsibility to deliver or reveal updates to their products in a timely manner, all I have to say is that the people who are positing these comments probably don't have a reliance on their computers (for work, life, etc.).

I disgree. I think they do have a reliance on their computers. The difference is, unlike the gotta-have-the-latest-fastest craze that grips the Wintel world, Macs retain their usefullness longer so we don't have such a problem being a little more patient.

Not only that, but such practices are bad bad business. Imagine going to a grocery store for milk. They're out. You ask the guy behind the counter, "Hey, I'd like some milk - when are you going to get more in?" The guy looks at you indifferently and says, "We may be getting some in, but even if I knew, I'm not going to tell you when." So you leave in a huff and say "Well, I'm never going to shop THERE again. Especially when I can just go down the corner to the next store and buy..."

This example has no similarity to present events. If this we a valid Apple metaphor:

1) The store would have milk, it just wouldn't be as fresh as the milk you want. Hence the guy "wont tell you when" because he wants to sell the milk he has now.

2) There are no other stores. If you want MILK, you have to buy from the Apple market. If you go to the Microstore, you get water instead.

...but then that's the point. You really can't do that with Macs, can you? You do rely on a single supplier of computers to run the software you want, and in that sense - though perhaps not in totality - Apple IS a monopoly. To say that Apple in even the smallest way is not is completely ridiculous.

Nobody here has denied that. We simply enjoy the flavor of this monopoly more. Also, the world isn't drowning in milk, and the water is washing all the other beverages away!

[Bruja]

Originally posted by hose this!
Consumers have every right to make demands as they see fit. Apple and everybody who works for them has a salary and a job to look forward to because we, the consumers, support them. It is not the other way around.

Motorola may be at fault for not delivering processors on time, but if Apple bills itself as a computer company, then they are ultimately responsible for delivering computers on time. Fine if they aren't the ones manufacturing processors, but whose decisions (and a bad one at that) was it to rely on a single manufacturer for such a critical part? At the very least, they should at least communicate with their customers about when they can expect new products. This is just a good, decent way of running a business - any business.

As far as all this nonsense about Apple not having a responsibility to deliver or reveal updates to their products in a timely manner, all I have to say is that the people who are positing these comments probably don't have a reliance on their computers (for work, life, etc.).

Not only that, but such practices are bad bad business. Imagine going to a grocery store for milk. They're out. You ask the guy behind the counter, "Hey, I'd like some milk - when are you going to get more in?" The guy looks at you indifferently and says, "We may be getting some in, but even if I knew, I'm not going to tell you when." So you leave in a huff and say "Well, I'm never going to shop THERE again. Especially when I can just go down the corner to the next store and buy..."

...but then that's the point. You really can't do that with Macs, can you? You do rely on a single supplier of computers to run the software you want, and in that sense - though perhaps not in totality - Apple IS a monopoly. To say that Apple in even the smallest way is not is completely ridiculous.

Think different.

Expect more. Demand more. They're here to serve us, not us to serve them.

This applies to our political institutions as well, BTW. Wurd!!! Are you listening Mr. Jobs & Detroit???

[yujini]

Originally posted by hose this!
Consumers have every right to make demands as they see fit. Apple and everybody who works for them has a salary and a job to look forward to because we, the consumers, support them. It is not the other way around.

Motorola may be at fault for not delivering processors on time, but if Apple bills itself as a computer company, then they are ultimately responsible for delivering computers on time. Fine if they aren't the ones manufacturing processors, but whose decisions (and a bad one at that) was it to rely on a single manufacturer for such a critical part? At the very least, they should at least communicate with their customers about when they can expect new products. This is just a good, decent way of running a business - any business.

As far as all this nonsense about Apple not having a responsibility to deliver or reveal updates to their products in a timely manner, all I have to say is that the people who are positing these comments probably don't have a reliance on their computers (for work, life, etc.).

Not only that, but such practices are bad bad business. Imagine going to a grocery store for milk. They're out. You ask the guy behind the counter, "Hey, I'd like some milk - when are you going to get more in?" The guy looks at you indifferently and says, "We may be getting some in, but even if I knew, I'm not going to tell you when." So you leave in a huff and say "Well, I'm never going to shop THERE again. Especially when I can just go down the corner to the next store and buy..."

...but then that's the point. You really can't do that with Macs, can you? You do rely on a single supplier of computers to run the software you want, and in that sense - though perhaps not in totality - Apple IS a monopoly. To say that Apple in even the smallest way is not is completely ridiculous.

Think different.

Expect more. Demand more. They're here to serve us, not us to serve them.

This applies to our political institutions as well, BTW.

Though I've posted this on another forum as well,
announcing a new product when it is not available yet is not a good idea. There have been cases where the company would go bankrupt because of this. Have you ever seen cases where they would announce a product ahead of time when they have a current model available for sale? (i'm assuming the new product is the revised/upgraded same product)

Not one company does that. I know Dell doesn't do it. Gateway doesn't do it. Compaq doesn't do it. And of course apple doesn't do it. If they did say we're going to start selling the new 15' al powerbooks on october 15th, why would people buy the powerbooks right now? They would sell almost no ti15 powerbooks.

Milk is different. You are asking when the same exact milk will be available. That can be answered. But if you were an average user who doesn't check rumor sites and stuff, if apple said "we're announcing the new ibook. It's going to have this and that, and it will be available soon", would you go out and pay 1500+ bux for it? I wouldn't.

That's how the company (damn, forgot the name of it though it's such a well known event in the business industry) who made computers in the 80s went bankrupt. Their PCs were selling like mad crazy, and they announced the new PCs that they were going to sell with all the specs and stuff, but after they announced that, people were waiting for it. They couldn't sell the current models available, no cash flow, and thus couldn't pay for parts and R&D. And of course, the company went bankrupt.
(But the CEO, he made tons of money after he wrote a book on this)

Don't think what Apple is doing is bad business. This is what all tech companies do nowadays. Not just apple. The fact is, if you do a business, don't announce an upgrade of the same model (in this case powerbooks) ahead of time.
You may argue that apple has more than just powerbooks, but it still gives a negative impact by not being able to sell the current powerbooks, thus giving apple a lesser cash flow.

[MacIke]

Originally posted by tizza
I'll be ready to hit the order button the moment after the keynote ... :)

I will be there ready to order the 15"

[MacIke]

Originally posted by Raveny
<I found that the PowerMac G4 was introduced in September 1999. The PowerBook G4 was introduced in January 2001.>



When you look at apple-history again you will notice that the G3 Powerbook came out at the same time with the G3 Powermac! And now the G5 is also from IBM like the G3s. And I think that after 10+ month there can't be just a 0.25 speed bump.

When Steve Jobs announce new Powerbooks in Paris there won't be another keynote with new PB from SJ in the new future. Or do you think that he comes up with PB again in 6 month or so? Either it will be the G5 PB or a G4 with an extra. If G4 is in it the G5 will come out later than early 2004.

Sorry for any mistakes. I don't have written or spoken English for 2 years.


Mistakes overlooked and gladly forgiven.
javascript:smilie(':)')

I am really hoping for G5 PB. This makes sense on timing. Will not undercut the powermac side

and.... give Steve a huge show.

a .25 increase is a YAWN and will not have apple on the cutting edge... not to mention it will be as fast as an iMac?

Anycase I will be there on Tuesday ready to buy.

[hose this!]

Originally posted by yujini
[B]Though I've posted this on another forum as well,
announcing a new product when it is not available yet is not a good idea. There have been cases where the company would go bankrupt because of this. Have you ever seen cases where they would announce a product ahead of time when they have a current model available for sale? (i'm assuming the new product is the revised/upgraded same product)[B]

What, like with the G5 towers?

[yujini]

I thought that was a delay in shipment?
Taking preorders for a new product that would ship in a month seems fine. Though it seems like apple has delayed the shipment for the 1.8ghz and 2.0 duals to the customers.
And obviously now you see all these complaints about apple not shipping it on time and keep delaying it.

[hose this!]

Originally posted by SeaFox
I like this assumption they have the choice. If there was a catastrophic problem at Intel and they couldn't produce faster CPU's, or any at all, do you think Dell can just call up AMD and say "Hey! Make me 30,000 3.5Ghz Pentium 4's will ya? Intel can't fill our demand."

Sure. It's grouped under what might be called the "natural laws of competition". If Intel can't fulfill processor demand, AMD sure as hell will - and they know this.

Why you're willing to go to such great lengths to defend this Apple policy borders on unquestioning orthodoxy. Have you or any one you know ever run their own business? If you purport to offer a solution to customers and then can't deliver it, they don't want to hear crap about how it's your supplier's fault or the delivery guys fault or whatever. It's pretty much your fault and if you run over expected ("expected" and "promised" may draw a distinction in a court of law, but is immaterial in a market) you better tell your customers when they can expect delivery.

Apple is a computer company. They're in the business of making computers. An essential part of that business is releasing fresh products in a timely manner, ESPECIALLY when their customers express a great demand for them. The foundation of any good business is delivering products your customers want/need. Lining up their suppliers and partners is Apple's responsibility. The buck stops there. It's not whiny at all that we should hold them ultimately accountable.

[Raveny]

Originally posted by MacIke
Mistakes overlooked and gladly forgiven.
javascript:smilie(':)')

I am really hoping for G5 PB. This makes sense on timing. Will not undercut the powermac side

and.... give Steve a huge show.

a .25 increase is a YAWN and will not have apple on the cutting edge... not to mention it will be as fast as an iMac?

Anycase I will be there on Tuesday ready to buy.


Thanks for forgiving!!!!

I think it's possible that there will be G5 Powerbooks this keynote and next time SJ introduces G4 Ibook.. next time G5 Imac and so on...

[hose this!]

Originally posted by yujini
Don't think what Apple is doing is bad business. This is what all tech companies do nowadays. Not just apple. The fact is, if you do a business, don't announce an upgrade of the same model (in this case powerbooks) ahead of time.
You may argue that apple has more than just powerbooks, but it still gives a negative impact by not being able to sell the current powerbooks, thus giving apple a lesser cash flow.

Yes, but stocks of old PBs are nearly depleted. It's not like they have wherehouses and wherehouses filled with them that they're waiting to sell. Your argument would be stronger if they did.

As many people have posted on this board (and I'm sure many more lurkers are doing the same), they are holding back their laptop purchase based on news of upcoming PB releases. This goes for people who are trying to decide b/w a PC laptop and a Mac as well. There have been some angry posters who have held out as long as they could but have gone ahead and purchased PC laptops as a result of this uncertainty. Taken to this extreme (and it is extreme - extremely tardy), Apple should do something that they might not do under normal circumstances because they ARE losing customers (back to school crowd, anyone?) as a result of this delay.

I, for one, would have bought a new PB 3-4 months ago if I knew Apple were going to release only a slightly speedier G4 model this fall. But now that I've had to wait this long, if it's not a G5 or they lower prices on the new G4 line, forget it.

[Bruja]

I do think that it's rather sad that since appl has a monopoly on their products, they can bloody well do what they please. To re-iterate what I've said in another thread: Apple's reason for delay is weak! We are the people waiting in line for this thing to be released/made availible to the public. I for one, will think twice about purchasing new technology from appl in the future because if there were other companies that produced the same type of laptop then I would've purchased it by now OR appl would've been more apt to give more information. Lastly: Milk should be drunk, not chewed!! hose this was correct and though the "haters" may try to flame him/her, they know (deep in their hearts) that he/she is correct.

Solace,

Edited for typos -Bruja

[eric67]

Originally posted by NicoMan
Why do everyone think that the keynote IS going to be about PBs? Who knows? Historically, Apple Expo hasn't been tremendously exciting (being french, I resent that). But then again, it could be different this time. Anyway... the point is, it could very well be a software-orientated keynote, with a short mention of new PBs and/or new iBooks (God save us all if it's only iBooks...).

eBeef1996 (I am running out of farm animals, someone please help me...)

yes I agree with you, MacOSX was announced at Apple Expo Paris, and it is usually a more software annoucement Expo, not hardware... maybe a small speed jump for all PB, but nothing tremendous; anyway there is no web broadcasting, so do not expect big news regarding hardware.
I do imagine more software news, like introducing and/or announcing Panther, the iTMS ofr Windows, maybe for Europe too, iOffice,...
let see

[yujini]

It wasn't an arguement, It's a fact that happened.
And though people say the stocks have been depleted,
it seems like the 867 combo drive 15inch powerboook is readily available in 1 week if you order it.

17inch, 15inch 867, 12inch seemed to sell fine at my apple edu store. Though I'm sure this is not what apple has been anticipating, it seems like it's being built by order now or at least the new pbooks come out.

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by hose this!
Sure. It's grouped under what might be called the "natural laws of competition". If Intel can't fulfill processor demand, AMD sure as hell will - and they know this.

Uh, no. AMD will not produce Pentium 4's to fill Dell's order. That was my point. They may offer similar Athlons or Durons or whatever. But I doubt that processor will be a pin-for-pin match to the Pentium 4. So Dell will have to redesign motherboards for it. That is why Apple cannot just drop Moto for an IBM G4. They probably had other parts stocked in anticipation of a Moto update, and switching to IBM would have cost them money and time redesigning certain components for a different chip.


Why you're willing to go to such great lengths to defend this Apple policy borders on unquestioning orthodoxy.

Delaying products beyond anticipated launch dates is not Apple Policy. We all know they wanted to release this update sooner. Once again you are holding them responsible for problems beyond their control. And worse you're implying this is some completely normal event like some newbie who's only experience with Apple product launches is 1) G5 dual 2gig delays and 2) This Powerbook update. :rolleyes:

Have you or any one you know ever run their own business? If you purport to offer a solution to customers and then can't deliver it, they don't want to hear crap about how it's your supplier's fault or the delivery guys fault or whatever.

Not wanting to hear the truth doesn't change its validity.

It's pretty much your fault and if you run over expected ("expected" and "promised" may draw a distinction in a court of law, but is immaterial in a market) you better tell your customers when they can expect delivery.

You can't offer information that doesn't exist. And maybe Apple doesn't want to say when to expect the new Powerbooks in case things slip again. That would just make people more mad, wouldn't you say?

Apple is a computer company. They're in the business of making computers. An essential part of that business is releasing fresh products in a timely manner, ESPECIALLY when their customers express a great demand for them. The foundation of any good business is delivering products your customers want/need. Lining up their suppliers and partners is Apple's responsibility. The buck stops there. It's not whiny at all that we should hold them ultimately accountable.

Anyone can make mistakes in their supplier chain. Apple isn't infallible in it's decisions, too. That doesn't necessarily mean everything is Apple's fault, though.

I'm afraid we are just going to have to agree to disagree, because I'm tired of typing the same logic over and over again. :)

[the_dalex]

Wow, reading all of those greedy consumer posts really makes me shiver.

Despite popular belief, Apple employees do NOT work for you. They offer products for you to purchase, and try to convince you to buy them. They either do it well, or not, and they either succeed, or not. You are not as empowered as you think.

Need a computer RIGHT NOW for work or school purposes? Buy one of the currently available models which will do everything you need, just 10% less efficiently or comfortably than the one that doesn't even exist and hasn't been announced. There will ALWAYS be something better around the corner, and in three years the Powerbook you are complaining about not having now will be very obsolete, and you'll be complaining about something else.

APPLE NEVER PROMISED YOU ANYTHING. They did this on purpose so that you wouldn't be pissed off, but you got pissed off anyway. That's your fault for having outrageous self-generated expectations that couldn't be met. Apple's only crime is that they have been promoting and taking orders for the 15-inch Ti Supers and they haven't delivered them in four weeks in my case. Beyond that, any frenzy you worked yourself into is your problem, don't blame Apple. If you absolutely refuse to purchase any other laptop besides one that hasn't been specced or announced yet, then you really put yourself into a difficult and ridiculous situation, and you sound really idiotic when you complain.

[crees!]

Originally posted by the_dalex
Wow, reading all of those greedy consumer posts really makes me shiver.

Despite popular belief, Apple employees do NOT work for you. They offer products for you to purchase, and try to convince you to buy them. They either do it well, or not, and they either succeed, or not. You are not as empowered as you think.

Need a computer RIGHT NOW for work or school purposes? Buy one of the currently available models which will do everything you need, just 10% less efficiently or comfortably than the one that doesn't even exist and hasn't been announced. There will ALWAYS be something better around the corner, and in three years the Powerbook you are complaining about not having now will be very obsolete, and you'll be complaining about something else.

APPLE NEVER PROMISED YOU ANYTHING. They did this on purpose so that you wouldn't be pissed off, but you got pissed off anyway. That's your fault for having outrageous self-generated expectations that couldn't be met. Apple's only crime is that they have been promoting and taking orders for the 15-inch Ti Supers and they haven't delivered them in four weeks in my case. Beyond that, any frenzy you worked yourself into is your problem, don't blame Apple. If you absolutely refuse to purchase any other laptop besides one that hasn't been specced or announced yet, then you really put yourself into a difficult and ridiculous situation, and you sound really idiotic when you complain.

Well said.

[hose this!]

Originally posted by the_dalex
Wow, reading all of those greedy consumer posts really makes me shiver.

Despite popular belief, Apple employees do NOT work for you. They offer products for you to purchase, and try to convince you to buy them. They either do it well, or not, and they either succeed, or not. You are not as empowered as you think.

Need a computer RIGHT NOW for work or school purposes? Buy one of the currently available models which will do everything you need, just 10% less efficiently or comfortably than the one that doesn't even exist and hasn't been announced. There will ALWAYS be something better around the corner, and in three years the Powerbook you are complaining about not having now will be very obsolete, and you'll be complaining about something else.

APPLE NEVER PROMISED YOU ANYTHING. They did this on purpose so that you wouldn't be pissed off, but you got pissed off anyway. That's your fault for having outrageous self-generated expectations that couldn't be met. Apple's only crime is that they have been promoting and taking orders for the 15-inch Ti Supers and they haven't delivered them in four weeks in my case...

Seems as though some people are a bit too used to bending over.:o

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by the_dalex
Despite popular belief, Apple employees do NOT work for you. They offer products for you to purchase, and try to convince you to buy them. They either do it well, or not, and they either succeed, or not. You are not as empowered as you think.

Need a computer RIGHT NOW for work or school purposes? Buy one of the currently available models which will do everything you need, just 10% less efficiently or comfortably than the one that doesn't even exist and hasn't been announced. There will ALWAYS be something better around the corner, and in three years the Powerbook you are complaining about not having now will be very obsolete, and you'll be complaining about something else.

THANK YOU!!!

People are saying now they wont buy the soon-to-be-released G4 Powerbooks since they are convinced G5 Powerbooks will come out early next year. What will they say if that doesn't happen? We all were convinced this update was gonna happen three months ago.

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by hose this!
Seems as though some people are a bit too used to bending over.:o

:o

A consumer's strongest means of communicating is with their wallet.

If you are upset by the pace of Apple's hardware development, maybe you should put your money where your mouth is. Buy a Dell laptop now instead of a Powerbook later and stop shouting at the moon.

[MasterMac]

Originally posted by SeaFox
We all were convinced this update was gonna happen three months ago.

But this time we're really, really sure :p

[true777]

If you absolutely refuse to purchase any other laptop besides one that hasn't been specced or announced yet, then you really put yourself into a difficult and ridiculous situation, and you sound really idiotic when you complain.

But if those greedy consumers stopped complaining..
what would these forums be filled with?:)

[hmmm]

Why can't I check the status of my PB order - it's been 'Open' for 10 days now with still no sign of shipping (hedging my bets they'll release before they ship..) - but as things stand 13:00 CET 14/09/03 - the order status component in the Apple store is down and has been for the last 6 hours - sort it out Apple and put us all out of our missery :)

[MacIke]

Originally posted by SeaFox
:o

A consumer's strongest means of communicating is with their wallet.

If you are upset by the pace of Apple's hardware development, maybe you should put your money where your mouth is. Buy a Dell laptop now instead of a Powerbook later and stop shouting at the moon.

Seafox

The only problem is that buying a Dell will increase the whine buy a factor of 20.

[matznentosh]

Originally posted by the_dalex
Need a computer RIGHT NOW for work or school purposes? Buy one of the currently available models which will do everything you need, just 10% less efficiently or comfortably than the one that doesn't even exist and hasn't been announced. If you refuse to buy any other laptop besides one that hasn't been specced or announced yet, then you really put yourself into a difficult and ridiculous situation, and you sound really idiotic when you complain.

However, some of us have specific needs; in particular I need to upgrade to 15 inch Powerbook with built in bluetooth. No such Mac exists now, so I will wait until one is available.

[Potus]

sorry double post

[Potus]

Originally posted by the_dalex
Wow, reading all of those greedy consumer posts really makes me shiver.

Despite popular belief, Apple employees do NOT work for you. They offer products for you to purchase, and try to convince you to buy them. They either do it well, or not, and they either succeed, or not. You are not as empowered as you think.

Need a computer RIGHT NOW for work or school purposes? Buy one of the currently available models which will do everything you need, just 10% less efficiently or comfortably than the one that doesn't even exist and hasn't been announced. There will ALWAYS be something better around the corner, and in three years the Powerbook you are complaining about not having now will be very obsolete, and you'll be complaining about something else.

APPLE NEVER PROMISED YOU ANYTHING. They did this on purpose so that you wouldn't be pissed off, but you got pissed off anyway. That's your fault for having outrageous self-generated expectations that couldn't be met. Apple's only crime is that they have been promoting and taking orders for the 15-inch Ti Supers and they haven't delivered them in four weeks in my case. Beyond that, any frenzy you worked yourself into is your problem, don't blame Apple. If you absolutely refuse to purchase any other laptop besides one that hasn't been specced or announced yet, then you really put yourself into a difficult and ridiculous situation, and you sound really idiotic when you complain.

Would you please run for President? You seem to be logical, intelligent, and articulate; qualities sorely lacking in most of your fellow posters. Thank you!

[neonart]

Originally posted by matznentosh
However, some of us have specific needs; in particular I need to upgrade to 15 inch Powerbook with built in bluetooth. No such Mac exists now, so I will wait until one is available.

I agree with you that you have a specific "need". But what you want exists.
You can still get a 15" Powerbook and a USB Bluetooth adapter. Sure it's not the nirvana that one can achive with internal BT:), but when you had to use a cable box to get cable people dealt with it.
I'm sure there was someone wishing for Zenith or RCA or Sony to meet their "needs" for a cable ready TV- but that did not make them say these companies where horrible.
And I'm not bashing your post- you do have a certain requirement or need for a computer at this point.
I'm simply stating that those who claim Apple is a bad company for not having what they think is nessesary for them in a particular package are not seeing this has and will always happen in technology.

[macphoria]

People are saying now they wont buy the soon-to-be-released G4 Powerbooks since they are convinced G5 Powerbooks will come out early next year. What will they say if that doesn't happen? We all were convinced this update was gonna happen three months ago.
If PowerBooks are updated on Tuesday with G4, you can bet G5 PowerBook will not come out for at least 6 months.

But I think better indication of G5 PowerBook's arrival depends on G5 Power Macs. I really think G5 PowerBook will not come out until G5 Power Macs have sufficient lead in processor speed. Slow G4 development and similar processor speed between PowerBooks and Power Macs hurt Power Mac sales in the past. So when we start to see G5 Power Macs get consistent periodical processor update, we'll know G5 PowerBooks will come out.

I think late Summer 2004 is when we'll see G5 PowerBook.

[songofthewoods]

Originally posted by macphoria
If PowerBooks are updated on Tuesday with G4, you can bet G5 PowerBook will not come out for at least 6 months.

But I think better indication of G5 PowerBook's arrival depends on G5 Power Macs. I really think G5 PowerBook will not come out until G5 Power Macs have sufficient lead in processor speed. Slow G4 development and similar processor speed between PowerBooks and Power Macs hurt Power Mac sales in the past. So when we start to see G5 Power Macs get consistent periodical processor update, we'll know G5 PowerBooks will come out.

I think late Summer 2004 is when we'll see G5 PowerBook.


Let's put it another way. The G4 powerbooks consume approximately 15 watts of power.....and they get quite hot on your lap. The current G5 machines consume 45 watts of power. There are 9 fans on the G5 to keep it cool....plus, have you seen the heat sink on these things? They are MASSIVE! To use the G5 in a powerbook, Apple will have to figure out a way to cool the G5 CPU in a very tiny enclosure. This is going to be a massive engineering feat........ I wouldn't hold my breath for a G5 powerbook to come out any time soon.

[MasterMac]

Originally posted by songofthewoods
Let's put it another way. The G4 powerbooks consume approximately 15 watts of power.....and they get quite hot on your lap. The current G5 machines consume 45 watts of power. There are 9 fans on the G5 to keep it cool....plus, have you seen the heat sink on these things? They are MASSIVE! To use the G5 in a powerbook, Apple will have to figure out a way to cool the G5 CPU in a very tiny enclosure. This is going to be a massive engineering feat........ I wouldn't hold my breath for a G5 powerbook to come out any time soon.

*sigh*

For a while I actually wanted to type up all the things that are wrong with this post, but I'd just be repeating what pleanty of people have already said throughout the numberous PB threads :p

[zync]

Let's put it another way. The G4 powerbooks consume approximately 15 watts of power.....and they get quite hot on your lap. The current G5 machines consume 45 watts of power. There are 9 fans on the G5 to keep it cool....plus, have you seen the heat sink on these things? They are MASSIVE! To use the G5 in a powerbook, Apple will have to figure out a way to cool the G5 CPU in a very tiny enclosure. This is going to be a massive engineering feat........ I wouldn't hold my breath for a G5 powerbook to come out any time soon.

I don't really know how many times this must be said. Take notice all you new people, read all the posts before yours if you don't want to a. anger people or b. look like an idiot. I myself have already made three of these posts already but four can't hurt.

There is *NO* heat problem with a G5 which would be of lower speed in a laptop. First off, the PPC G4 7455 rev. A processor at 1 GHz runs HOTTER, that means more hot, than a G5 at 1.2 GHz. Secondly, the PM G5 has 9 fans so that it can be QUIET. The fans are low RPM fans, unlike those used to cool PC processors. Not only that, but the PM G5 has 4 thermal zones and (I'm almost positive, though I can't find any info on it on Apple's website) only 1 fan cools each processor. The heatsink is large so that it has more surface area, not because the G5 is hell to cool, but because some of Steve Job's marketing relies on super quiet computers. The larger the heatsink, the less fan power needed to cool, thus facilitating the use of low RPM fans. Get actual facts before you speak and learn that cooling applications in desktops, like large heatsinks, do not necessarily apply to laptops.

[songofthewoods]

Originally posted by zync
I don't really know how many times this must be said. Take notice all you new people, read all the posts before yours if you don't want to a. anger people or b. look like an idiot. I myself have already made three of these posts already but four can't hurt.

There is *NO* heat problem with a G5 which would be of lower speed in a laptop. First off, the PPC G4 7455 rev. A processor at 1 GHz runs HOTTER, that means more hot, than a G5 at 1.2 GHz. Secondly, the PM G5 has 9 fans so that it can be QUIET. The fans are low RPM fans, unlike those used to cool PC processors. Not only that, but the PM G5 has 4 thermal zones and (I'm almost positive, though I can't find any info on it on Apple's website) only 1 fan cools each processor. The heatsink is large so that it has more surface area, not because the G5 is hell to cool, but because some of Steve Job's marketing relies on super quiet computers. The larger the heatsink, the less fan power needed to cool, thus facilitating the use of low RPM fans. Get actual facts before you speak and learn that cooling applications in desktops, like large heatsinks, do not necessarily apply to laptops.


Look, I'm not an Apple engineer so I honestly I can't validate what I wrote.......but I'd also like to think I'm not speaking out of my ass. I can tell you that I have read quite a few articles on-line concerning the PB's, and cooling challenges Apple is going to have with the G5's. Perhaps my information is dated....perhaps it was simply bad. If I can "dig up" any of these articles I'll gladly share them on this board.

[songofthewoods]

Originally posted by songofthewoods
Look, I'm not an Apple engineer so I honestly I can't validate what I wrote.......but I'd also like to think I'm not speaking out of my ass. I can tell you that I have read quite a few articles on-line concerning the PB's, and cooling challenges Apple is going to have with the G5's. Perhaps my information is dated....perhaps it was simply bad. If I can "dig up" any of these articles I'll gladly share them on this board.

Still looking for some of those articles. Here is one from www.lowendmacs.com.

One more thing. I have no desire to "piss people off" nor do I want them to "think I'm an idiot". I have been "reading the other posts before mine" on this board and 2 or 3 others. As a matter of fact I've read hundreds of posts up here over the past few weeks. I can't say I've read them all, after all........I do have a life. The response from "Zync" to my initial statement is was arrogant, especially considering this is a RUMOR board. Not one of you up here is an Apple engineer nor can any of you can claim you know exactly what's going on with the PB's. You people need a life. Geez.... I've seen more ************ spread around up here in the past few weeks than on any other board, and then you jump my ass for making reference to the article below.

Go stick your heads in the sand!

From www.lowendmac.com:

On the heat issue, Smith notes that Motorola claims the new chip consumes 16.6W at 1.3 GHz, compared to the current 7455's 15W at 1_GHz, so it will certainly not improve the heat issue. For comparison, a G3 750fx chip running at 800 MHz draws only 3.6 watts, or a projected 5 watts at 1_GHz (not yet marketed), which is one reason why I contend that the G3 is still the best PowerPC chip for laptops if you don't need the AltiVec horsepower of the G4.

IBM is said to be working an a G3-class processor with AltiVec, but it remains to be seen whether it will offer any power economy advantages over the Motorola chips.

However, the G5 processor used in the new Power Mac towers introduced this week consumes a whopping 42W at 1.8 GHz, making those machines' elaborate nine-fan computer-regulated cooling systems obligatory, and their resemblance to portable space heaters is more than a whimsical observation.

On the basis of that level of power-sucking and heat generation, I would suggest that G5-based laptops are an extremely unlikely prospect any time in the foreseeable future.

Tony Smith contends that the 7457 remains the most likely processor candidate for the 15.4" PowerBooks expected to be rolled out later this summer.

[zync]

Originally posted by songofthewoods
Still looking for some of those articles. Here is one from www.lowendmacs.com.

One more thing. I have no desire to "piss people off" nor do I want them to "think I'm an idiot". I have been "reading the other posts before mine" on this board and 2 or 3 others. As a matter of fact I've read hundreds of posts up here over the past few weeks. I can't say I've read them all, after all........I do have a life. The response from "Zync" to my initial statement is was arrogant, especially considering this is a RUMOR board. Not one of you up here is an Apple engineer nor can any of you can claim you know exactly what's going on with the PB's. You people need a life. Geez.... I've seen more ************ spread around up here in the past few weeks than on any other board, and then you jump my ass for making reference to the article below.

Go stick your heads in the sand!

From www.lowendmac.com:

On the heat issue, Smith notes that Motorola claims the new chip consumes 16.6W at 1.3 GHz, compared to the current 7455's 15W at 1_GHz, so it will certainly not improve the heat issue. For comparison, a G3 750fx chip running at 800 MHz draws only 3.6 watts, or a projected 5 watts at 1_GHz (not yet marketed), which is one reason why I contend that the G3 is still the best PowerPC chip for laptops if you don't need the AltiVec horsepower of the G4.

IBM is said to be working an a G3-class processor with AltiVec, but it remains to be seen whether it will offer any power economy advantages over the Motorola chips.

However, the G5 processor used in the new Power Mac towers introduced this week consumes a whopping 42W at 1.8 GHz, making those machines' elaborate nine-fan computer-regulated cooling systems obligatory, and their resemblance to portable space heaters is more than a whimsical observation.

On the basis of that level of power-sucking and heat generation, I would suggest that G5-based laptops are an extremely unlikely prospect any time in the foreseeable future.

Tony Smith contends that the 7457 remains the most likely processor candidate for the 15.4" PowerBooks expected to be rolled out later this summer.

I'm sorry if I sounded "arrogant" to you, for that was least on my mind. I meant to inform and I guess my recent anger with continuous posts like "the G5 is waaaay to hot" or "man look at that heatsink and the nine fans" angered me. I'm sorry if that was passed onto you, though my first statement was a general statement to everyone and not just you. I have a life as well, but I read fast and when I have nothing better to do. I'm a full time student and between classes I have time to read and respond to these posts, and reading 10+ pages of responses isn't that much when you read it as it's being posted to. Just because someone has read every post doesn't mean they have no life. So there we go, we're even. We both attacked each other and we've both had a rubuttal. I'm sorry if I have offended you in any way, I'm just really anxious to see my new powerbook be presented, whether it be G4 (most likely of course) or G5.

[schalliol]

Originally posted by Macrumors and side ports.

:mad: :eek: :mad: :eek: :mad: :mad: :eek: :eek:

They better not make this stupid engineering move!!!!! They totally get in the way on your lap, how annoying, the back is good for a desk purpose and with the angle you put the display at anyway, you create room at the back.

[cb911]

Originally posted by schalliol
:mad: :eek: :mad: :eek: :mad: :mad: :eek: :eek:

They better not make this stupid engineering move!!!!! They totally get in the way on your lap, how annoying, the back is good for a desk purpose and with the angle you put the display at anyway, you create room at the back.

yeah, i'm not too crazy about the side ports... if you were using it with a peripheral on your lap, from the side it would be easy to snap off in the port. but Apple knows best.;) :D