'Unwelcoming' US sees sharp fall in visitors since 9/11

[Stella]

There's more other stories in the past about the fall in visitors, but here's an update...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071101203321.9b0hpiha&show_article=1

"Since September 11, 2001, the United States has experienced a 17 percent decline in overseas travel, costing America 94 billion dollars in lost visitor spending, nearly 200,000 jobs and 16 billion dollars in lost tax revenue," the Discover America advocacy campaign said in a statement.

[SMM]

There's more other stories in the past about the fall in visitors, but here's an update...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071101203321.9b0hpiha&show_article=1

"Since September 11, 2001, the United States has experienced a 17 percent decline in overseas travel, costing America 94 billion dollars in lost visitor spending, nearly 200,000 jobs and 16 billion dollars in lost tax revenue," the Discover America advocacy campaign said in a statement.

I had not heard this before, but it does not surprise me. However, I would also expect the cost of travel to be a significant contributor to a decline in tourism.

[Ugg]

The plummeting dollar has made the US a bargain destination.

"Travelers around the world feel the US entry experience is among the world's worst," Freeman said, calling on the US government to work with the private sector to make visa acquisition more efficient, the entry process traveler-friendly, and to improve communication.

I've heard a lot of people complain about the Soviet style of US immigration officials. Even as a US citizen it is extremely unpleasant.

[AlBDamned]

I've heard a lot of people complain about the Soviet style of US immigration officials. Even as a US citizen it is extremely unpleasant.

Yup, it's like you're being checked into prison. The most uncomfortable I've ever felt in an immigration environment (passport control) is most definitely the US. It's an atomosphere of tension and paranoia that hits you as soon as you get off the plane (and I've only done it once).

Having said that, Heathrow these days is an absolute hell hole - going out or coming in - and the immigration officials there and at London Gatwick have given various close friends from visiting countries a really hard time for no reason. I think immigration officials are up there with traffic wardens as the world's biggest a/holes.

[takao]

hardly surprising.. what's even more interesting is that according to some articles it's worse when you are a journalist

[arkitect]

And god help you if you "step over the line" or stand in the "wrong" spot… then you get the loud "Voice of Authority" telling you off…

Never had any major issues, but still not a "warm" welcome. On a par with Taiwanese immigration officials…

[Swarmlord]

Try flying in or out of Riyadh some time. It will make going through a US airport seem like waiting in line for the Leno show.

[Applespider]

I've never had a problem entering the US although having to be photographed and fingerprinted isn't the most pleasant experience.

The US security requirements cause more problems at the check-in phase when they need to know your first night's accommodation etc which can be tricky if it's a last minute trip or a flydrive.

I've always found the immigration officials themselves pretty friendly. I smile at them and say hello and they tend to do likewise. Answer their questions in a relaxed manner and there's no issue - I've ended up having a bit of a banter with several of them and been 'proposed' to three times ;)

[Ugg]

Try flying in or out of Riyadh some time. It will make going through a US airport seem like waiting in line for the Leno show.

Ah, the classic swarmy response. "If you think it's bad here......"

That's not the point really, the point is that the US is losing billions of dollars in tourist dollars and desperately needed foreign currency by imposing draconian and paranoid measures.

Fortress America anyone?

[Swarmlord]

<snip>Fortress America anyone?

If only that were true. Perhaps Mexico has just discovered a new source of revenue. They can charge international tourists for information on how easy it is to get into America without having their documentation or identity checked.

[hulugu]

If only that were true. Perhaps Mexico has just discovered a new source of revenue. They can charge international tourists for information on how easy it is to get into America without having their documentation or identity checked.

It's not easy to come up through Mexico. The smart tourist would go through Canada.

[Thanatoast]

If only that were true.

You would really enjoy living in a police state? "Fortress America" would bring complete security from everyone but our own government. Abosolute power, and all.

[Stella]

You would really enjoy living in a police state? "Fortress America" would bring complete security from everyone but our own government. Abosolute power, and all.

1984 type scenario.

[skunk]

Try flying in or out of Riyadh some time.How low do you want to drop the bar? I'm sure it's much more unpleasant flying into Pyongyang, too.

[Swarmlord]

You would really enjoy living in a police state? "Fortress America" would bring complete security from everyone but our own government. Abosolute power, and all.

A police state? Unless you are recklessly speeding, I dare you to find a place you'd be stopped for anything traveling from one end of this country to the other. Oh, maybe that stop for produce when entering California from Arizona. Regular Brownshirts, those guys. :rolleyes:

[hulugu]

A police state? Unless you are recklessly speeding, I dare you to find a place you'd be stopped for anything traveling from one end of this country to the other. Oh, maybe that stop for produce when entering California from Arizona. Regular Brownshirts, those guys. :rolleyes:

There are Border Patrol stops along many of the southwestern US, where you will be stopped and quickly questioned. And, there's also the road-blocks for DUI checks and DEA stops as well. Try driving along I-40 out of Flagstaff and you'll be amazed at how many various authorities you'll encounter.

Not exactly "your paper's please" of the old Eastern Bloc, but the clear open road sans some kind of over-watching authority is a dying element of America.

For instance, from the Wired story on the Cannonball Run guys:
And so the clock starts and the taillights flare, and they're off again, strapped down, fueled up, and bound on an outlaw enterprise with 2,795 miles of interstate and some 31,000 highway cops between them and the all-time speed record for crossing the American continent on four wheels.

That's a lot of cops!

[leekohler]

A police state? Unless you are recklessly speeding, I dare you to find a place you'd be stopped for anything traveling from one end of this country to the other. Oh, maybe that stop for produce when entering California from Arizona. Regular Brownshirts, those guys. :rolleyes:

In Ohio, particularly Toledo, they routinely have checkpoints set up. Everyone is stopped and checked for DUI- everyone. I'm sure there's more than that across the country. Hey- you dared.

[Swarmlord]

In Ohio, particularly Toledo, they routinely have checkpoints set up. Everyone is stopped and checked for DUI- everyone. I'm sure there's more than that across the country. Hey- you dared.

Still doesn't compare to a police state. When they require passports to travel between states, then I'll start to worry.

It's too bad they have to check for DUI and things like that, but our paper is filled daily with people flipping their trucks or crashing into power poles and not wearing their seatbelts. I swear they need to make wearing seatbelts illegal so more people would wear them. :)

[leekohler]

Still doesn't compare to a police state. When they require passports to travel between states, then I'll start to worry.

It's too bad they have to check for DUI and things like that, but our paper is filled daily with people flipping their trucks or crashing into power poles and not wearing their seatbelts. I swear they need to make wearing seatbelts illegal so more people would wear them. :)

Read hulugu's post. It's getting close. Either way, you were wrong- again. ;) You guys have such a hard time admitting it.

[SMM]

A police state? Unless you are recklessly speeding, I dare you to find a place you'd be stopped for anything traveling from one end of this country to the other. Oh, maybe that stop for produce when entering California from Arizona. Regular Brownshirts, those guys. :rolleyes:

I have not driven through the area for many years, but outside Oceanside they used to have a checkpoint right on I-5. All vehicles were stopped and checked for illegal aliens. The DEA used to set-up 'focus checkpoints' looking for marijuana. The CA and WA State Patrols set-up 'focus checkpoints' for DUIs. I do not know what happens in other parts of the Country, but it must happen there as well.

[Virgil-TB2]

I've never had a problem entering the US although having to be photographed and fingerprinted isn't the most pleasant experience...This has to be the ironic sentence of the century. :eek:

It's like saying: "I never had a problem with Gulag 13 but the rats tail soup took a bit of getting used to." :p

Amazing what people will put up with in the so-called "Land of the Free."

[Virgil-TB2]

It's not easy to come up through Mexico. The smart tourist would go through Canada.You can also pretty much land a small boat anywhere along the NorthWest coast full to the brim with guns and explosives and go undetected. All the coast guard forces and resources are deployed along the East, Southwest and Southern Coasts. There are also long, long stretches of the Alaskan coast with no radar, no patrol boats or subs, and no inhabitants to see you land.

The baggage checks are to check for bombs of course, but the checking of people at the airports is actually part of the (domestic) surveillance program. It's not intended so much to deny entry to terrorists, as it is to monitor who's coming and going.

[Thanatoast]

A police state? Unless you are recklessly speeding, I dare you to find a place you'd be stopped for anything traveling from one end of this country to the other. Oh, maybe that stop for produce when entering California from Arizona. Regular Brownshirts, those guys. :rolleyes:Why do you think Fortress America would only apply at the borders? It's the *mindset* that the authorities are hoping for, not the actual Great Wall of Texas.

Take a look at what's been done already. Paranoid and dubiously useful "security" at airports, where several people have died just for acting funny. An exercise of overwhelming force and threats to *any* provocation. Restrictions on travel based on t-shirt slogans, skin color and language - not all at once, mind you, but in seperate incidents.

That's not to mention warrantless wiretapping, suspension of habeus corpus, and the "unitary executive" theory - where you can be disappeared based on the president's say-so - despite any law congress decides to pass against this.

The Fortress America mentality gives unlimited and unquestioned authority to a small group of unassailable elites. I do not wish this to happen in *any* form, even if that means a one in one hundred million chance of dying in an airplane, or having to speak slowly to the guy behind the counter whose English is only passable.

The point is, if we let the powers that be institute certain policies in spite of their tortured logic and sometimes blatant illegality there's nothing to keep them from instituting new policies under the same banner that aren't so easy to ignore.

[LethalWolfe]

Try flying in or out of Riyadh some time. It will make going through a US airport seem like waiting in line for the Leno show.
That's a bit of a pointless deflection. I mean, traffic in Indianapolis is better than it is in Los Angeles but that doesn't mean there is room for improvement in Indianapolis.

There are Border Patrol stops along many of the southwestern US, where you will be stopped and quickly questioned. And, there's also the road-blocks for DUI checks and DEA stops as well. Try driving along I-40 out of Flagstaff and you'll be amazed at how many various authorities you'll encounter.
Since 9/11 I've driven between Indiana and LA twice, and made a number of trips from LA to different parts of AZ and haven't seen anything except weigh stations and produce border stops.


That's a lot of cops!
Considering the size of the US that really doesn't seem like it to me.


Lethal

[hulugu]

Since 9/11 I've driven between Indiana and LA twice, and made a number of trips from LA to different parts of AZ and haven't seen anything except weigh stations and produce border stops.

Oh, it's entirely possible to travel the entire country without seeing a single cop. It's also possible to run into one every county, it depends on where and when you travel.

The I-40 stops outside of Flagstaff are for drug-interdiction, but are also infrequent enough that you could travel through Flag' several times without being stopped.

Of course, the last time I was through there I was driving this:

[SMM]

Oh, it's entirely possible to travel the entire country without seeing a single cop. It's also possible to run into one every county, it depends on where and when you travel.

The I-40 stops outside of Flagstaff are for drug-interdiction, but are also infrequent enough that you could travel through Flag' several times without being stopped.

Of course, the last time I was through there I was driving this:

That will probably get you noticed :cool:

[solvs]

Try flying in or out of Riyadh some time. It will make going through a US airport seem like waiting in line for the Leno show.
Ah, the classic swarmy response. "If you think it's bad here......"
How low do you want to drop the bar? I'm sure it's much more unpleasant flying into Pyongyang, too.
That's a bit of a pointless deflection.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who was thinking that was a terrible response. Are we so bad now that we can even be compared to such a thing? Or that we need to look to such for a positive comparison.

Even worse, the measures taken aren't making us a lot safer, it's more the appearance of safety. You can point to the lack of attacks, but last time it took them almost a decade between similar attacks, and we've seen the checkpoints that are supposed to be safe fail every test thrown at them. What was the last one, ~70% of the fake test "bombs" got through? Not to mention the fact that we're all so immune to it now thanks to all the wolf crying. Now we're actually hurting from it, as has actually been warned since we started going more and more draconian. They wonder why no one wants to fly anymore. And all some can do is lower the bar some more to attempt to defend such things.

This reminds me of when that country executed an Australian man who was coerced into bringing drugs into the country to save his brother. Not only was it a terrible human rights violation, but it killed relations between them and other countries. I wouldn't be surprised if it killed their tourism as well, which was threatened. It was a large part of their economy as well. Only shooting themselves in the foot for the perception of safety.