Apple Expo Paris 2003 Rumor Roundup

[MacRumors]

Apple Expo 2003 (http://www.apple-expo.com) kicks of on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 in Paris France. Steve Jobs will be giving the keynote address (http://www.apple-expo.com/uk/keynote/) at 10 a.m. CET (3 a.m. EDT), but, according to one report (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030908195854.shtml), there will be no live webcast of the event.

There have been surprisingly few Apple Expo specific rumors over the past few weeks. This roundup will cover both expected Expo product releases as well as a collection of "open" rumors at this time.

PowerBooks

While numerous sites have repeatedly claimed PowerBook revisions over the past few months... a few new reports have since come in from more traditionally reliable sources.

ThinkSecret reported (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030818022136.shtml) in Mid-August that 12", 15" and 17" PowerBooks were in the pipeline, but were unable to provide specs or a definitive timeframe for the upcoming machines at that time.

Appleinsider then claimed (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030903035649.shtml) that the prolonged PowerBook delays were due to PPC7457 supply issues, and is now reporting (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030911084423.shtml) that those issues have been resolved. Appleinsider appears very confident that updated PowerBook G4s will be released at Apple Expo Paris -- with top speeds of 1.25GHz, 2.0 USB and side-ports. Similar specs were given by (less reliable) PowerPage (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030819003305.shtml) but, in contrast, they feel that new PowerBooks are not likely (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030909131732.shtml) at this Expo.

Meanwhile, our own sources (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030822013250.shtml) claim a 15.2" screensize and the inclusion of an illuminated keyboard with (at least) the mid-range model.

At this point Apple's Powerbooks are the oldest computers in their product line with 12" and 17" Powerbooks last seeing revisions in January 2003, and 15" PowerBooks in November 2002.

Software Releases

Our own reliable reports (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030821184417.shtml) indicated that iCal 1.5 and iSync 1.2 would be seeing releases shortly, but no timeframes were given. Meanwhile, another vague report (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030908113013.shtml) claimed that we would see "software announcements" (one unexpected) from Apple this and next week. Unfortunately, no software releases have been seen at this point.

A release of iTunes for Windows still remains in the back of people's minds, and some recent Page 2 rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030910231353.shtml) place the iTunes for Windows release in mid-to-late October... but there are no known plans for an announcement at Apple Expo.

Panther

Early reports expected (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/07/20030709090656.shtml) a Panther release at this year's Apple Expo, but more recent estimates (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030901113109.shtml) place Panther's ship date into October.

Open Rumors

The mysterious iPod Peripherals (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030824044627.shtml) are still expected to be released and will require an iPod software update to utilize the new hardware. No further details or timeframes have been provided for these items.

Bluetooth-based Apple Wireless Mice and Keyboards are essentially confirmed (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030906011404.shtml) based on help notes and error messages embedded in Panther. Rumor sites remain in the dark about the release date for these peripherals.

While Xserve (http://xserve.macrumors.com/) updates are certainly in the works, only MacBidouille (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030909101305.shtml) gives possible specs with a report that the new G5 Xserves will see top speeds of only 1.8GHz.

Summary

Apple Expos have not traditionally been the launching pad for major Apple Announcements, so expectations should be modest. A number of products do appear to be in the pipeline, but the timeframe for their releases is unclear.

[SeaFox]

I'll consider it a nice Expo even if all we see are updated iApps and Wireless Keyboards/Mice.

But I do feel the Powerbooks gotta pop up soon. Not that that necessarily means Apple Expo.

Edit: The reason is I fully expect the wireless mice to be at least two button with scroll dials. I say dials not wheels because of Apple's patent filing last month. This will finally put to rest the stupid "there's only one button" complaints.

[weev]

viva le powerbook!

I reckon we all need this!

Is the Stevenote being broadcast?

[Wonder Boy]

Please, around of applause for the MacRumors staff, ladies and gentlemen. For without them, I, and many others, would have no clue as to what the hell is going on with Apple.

PS. sorry for all the commas.

[michael666]

This will finally put to rest the stupid "there's only one button" complaints.

If life is all about complaints putting to rest, then we should all be using Windows computers, because that will finally put to rest all those silly Mac vs. Windows debates.

I expect more from apple products than putting to rest someone's complaints.

[Porshuh944turbo]

powerbook upgrades are definately expected, just a matter of when... maybe apple is trying to help me get OUT of debt by not bringing on these new machines... i'm still working on my last purchases from store.apple.com :rolleyes:

[jaedreth]

I definitely expect there to be a PowerBook/iBook announcement. Release dates, dunno. But I feel Apple will want to trumpet iBooks and PowerBooks with big loud blaring trombones and trumpets if Apple has the rabbit in its hat I think it does.

I've seen reports of Apple actively seeking vendors for Fuel Cell technology as early as early May. And there was a quote saying something to the effect that they were not interested in mandating that whatever fuel cell solution they use be made to fit into existing battery bays, but that they would redesign the portable units around them if they had viable options.

This is why I think Steve ported this as the Year of the Notebook, because I think he of course knew what he was wanting to do. Revolutionize Portables by getting rid of the ***** batteries. Apple would be the one to do it. Apple would be first.

Why not now? Why not this being part of the reason for the wait?

If Apple does announce Fuel Cell based portables this Tuesday, no matter when they actually ship, EVERYONE is going to want one. Even more Mac people would switch from Desktops to Portables, because Portables would become that much more viable. They would sell like hotcakes. In fact, how many PC portable converts do you think we'd get? Droves.

Then it WOULD be the year of the Notebook no matter how minor the MHz upgrade is.

My $5.73 worth.

ps. Apple *is* working on this technology. Period. This is not science fiction. When is inevitable. And it may be soon. Very soon.

[shecky]

interesting. can you give me the super short 3 scentence definition of a fuel cell. and whats the difference between fuel cells and batteries?

<----clueless

[superfoo]

So many possibilities!

Even having eagerly anticipated the next 15.x" PowerBook, the potential for this new iPod peripheral is even more exciting (for me at least.)... A slick Apple-style automotive dock for the 'Pod would seriously *rock*.

[Porshuh944turbo]

last i'd heard, fuel cells weren't getting much better "life" than standard battery charges... (apple claims 5-6 hours now depending on portable model).

the size that the cells would have to be to work in a powerbook or any portable device is so small that it hasn't been profitable (meaning that it hasn't been worth while compared to lithium rechargables).

but it's been close to a year since i've heard anthing else about these things... could it be done? sure. will it be done by tuesday? i give it slim to none....


my $5.74

[Porshuh944turbo]

and what's the deal with 15.2 again? i thought for sure we were going 15.4.. didn't dell get 15.4 screens? what's up with that?

[syrreg]

Yes, Compal is building the 15.4" Powerbooks. Even if 15.2" ones are released at the Expo (which I would seriously doubt), I'd hold out for the 15.4" ones which are in the pipeline.

[cb911]

w00t!! :D Apple Expo Paris rumor roundup!! :D

here's hoping for an Al 15" PowerBook. :)

and now people think that if the next PBs aren't 15.4", the next ones after that will be?!! what!! there's no way i'm waiting any longer!! it's either new 15" Al PB on Tuesday, or second hand 1GHz TiBook!:mad:

[JayBee]

There are new PowerBooks coming out?

[iMeowbot]

Originally posted by shecky
interesting. can you give me the super short 3 scentence definition of a fuel cell. and whats the difference between fuel cells and batteries?

A fuel cell is a kind of battery, producing electricity from a chemical reaction. The big difference is that it uses different chemicals than traditional batteries, and you can refill them instead of buying a new battery or finding an external power source to rechange.

The nice thing about the DMFC (direct methanol) cells that will be appearing in various laptops [Apple is far from alone; both Toshiba and NEC have shown prototypes] is that they don't require you to carry around hydrogen like early versions did. Instead, the hydrogen is extracted from watered-down alcohol. That means the fuel will be fairly cheap and safe.

One remaining hitch is that the airlines need to be convinced that these things aren't dangerous; this shouldn't be too hard, since some of the beverages served by those airlines are more flammable.

[mad_muppett]

One almost certain announcement people have over looked is the whole Euro iTunes, and Apple Stores...

One of the bigger money spinners is the iTunes store, and Apple have been beaten to online music purchase thing in Euroland already :mad:

Time to play catch up!

I'd love the laptops to be released as I'm due a new one but they would need to be imediately avaliable to put a big smile on my face...

I've read commnets about people thinking a video iPod would be not viable due to screen size, but imagine this if you will...

iPod with the screen as the whole front, which is touch sensitive / stylus operated. Full colour with iCal / basic PDA functions as an extra but playing MPEG3 & 4's in iMedia (or something similar). The screen would be about the same size as the ones in the back of airline seats..which is normally watchable, with a Bluetooth headset to listen with.

Put me at the front of the line for that one...

Unless Apple are looking for a product development staff member... allways willing to help ;)

[lord_flash]

But presumably with these fuel cells we'll be expected to go along to a retailer to have it topped up/replaced. Perhaps even a standard part (like AA batteries) will emerge.

Either way, someone will be making a (no doubt fairly hefty) profit from you every time you want to use your - incredibly expensive, let's not forget - computer for another few hours.

As a consumer, if offered the choice between a 5 hour rechargeable machine, and a 10 hour one I had to buy batteries for (even if they were readily available, which they won't be), I'd go for the rechargeable one.

[esheep2001]

LOL!

G5 Powerbooks
dual G4 Powerbooks
Powerbooks with fuel cells

fui psdivgj'oiv
d kdjk
d

Sorry, just had to pick myself up off the floor from laughing so much.

PARIS WILL BE BORING!!!!

Why can't you people simply accept that there's a huge f**kup somewhere and Paris is going to be a damage limitation excerise. In fact I'm expecting SJ to stand up and say that the Dual 2GHz G5's have had to be downgraded to dual 1.8 because yield of 2's wasn't good enough.

I'm starting to get a baaaad feeling about all this :-(

e.

[MrMacMan]

Ah good scattered rumors...

:p

[mvc]

Originally posted by esheep2001
I'm starting to get a baaaad feeling about all this :-(
e.

Go and take a happy pill man!

Steve doesn't DO damage control, thats someone else's job. Steve only has GOOD things to say to us all. He makes us all happy, so happy!

You see, Steve is a Visionary, a colossus striding through the barren desert of the real, transforming it with a Word into a shining oasis of joy and hope for young and old …and… </rdf>

[stefman]

Originally posted by JayBee
There are new PowerBooks coming out?

That's funny!! ;)

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by lord_flash
But presumably with these fuel cells we'll be expected to go along to a retailer to have it topped up/replaced. Perhaps even a standard part (like AA batteries) will emerge.

Either way, someone will be making a (no doubt fairly hefty) profit from you every time you want to use your - incredibly expensive, let's not forget - computer for another few hours.

As a consumer, if offered the choice between a 5 hour rechargeable machine, and a 10 hour one I had to buy batteries for (even if they were readily available, which they won't be), I'd go for the rechargeable one.

No, fuel cells are just what the name implies-- cells that drink fuel. Generally they work from hydrogen or hydrocarbons.

They're non-combustion "engines", so there's no flame and limited heat but higher efficiency and cleaner emmissions.

They can be built to use a variety of fuels-- some take hydrogen directly, but carrying around a tank of hydrogen has some obvious problems... Some can run on gasoline, some on methanol. Some can actually run on ethanol which leads to the interesting solution of asking the stewardess for a mini-bottle of vodka if you need a recharge... :)

I don't think they'd build a student laptop around an ethanol fuel cell, but whatever they choose it will almost certainly be a readily available fuel. No retailer necessary.

That said, I wouldn't expect to have to worry about it as early as next week... The technology is too new to gamble on yet-- it's a revolutionary tech not an evolutionary one and we'll doubtless be hearing rumors of protos long before we see product.

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by mad_muppett
One almost certain announcement people have over looked is the whole Euro iTunes, and Apple Stores...

One of the bigger money spinners is the iTunes store, and Apple have been beaten to online music purchase thing in Euroland already :mad:

Time to play catch up!

...

iPod with the screen as the whole front, which is touch sensitive / stylus operated. Full colour with iCal / basic PDA functions as an extra but playing MPEG3 & 4's in iMedia (or something similar). The screen would be about the same size as the ones in the back of airline seats..which is normally watchable, with a Bluetooth headset to listen with.


Euro iTunes-- you've got my vote with that one. A Paris announcement that isn't being webcast? A euro-centric announcment sounds about right...

You left one key feature out of your iPod dreams-- plug in an iSight for a portable video recorder! That was my first thought when I saw a small firewire camera with no integrated display and no other immediate use beyond video chat...

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by JayBee
There are new PowerBooks coming out?

What is a PowerBook?

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by esheep2001
LOL!

G5 Powerbooks
dual G4 Powerbooks
Powerbooks with fuel cells

fui psdivgj'oiv
d kdjk
d

Sorry, just had to pick myself up off the floor from laughing so much.

PARIS WILL BE BORING!!!!

Why can't you people simply accept that there's a huge f**kup somewhere and Paris is going to be a damage limitation excerise. In fact I'm expecting SJ to stand up and say that the Dual 2GHz G5's have had to be downgraded to dual 1.8 because yield of 2's wasn't good enough.

I'm starting to get a baaaad feeling about all this :-(

e.

Boy are you down today!!
Chill, have a joint.

ePig2003

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by Analog Kid
You left one key feature out of your iPod dreams-- plug in an iSight for a portable video recorder!
The only obstacle to that being the iPod screen. You might want to look at what you are shooting. So to get this to work, either we get iPods with a colour screen, or a viewfinder accessory...

Anyway, that's quite a neat idea.

eChicken2002

[Fender2112]

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
Please, around of applause for the MacRumors staff, ladies and gentlemen. For without them, I, and many others, would have no clue as to what the hell is going on with Apple.

PS. sorry for all the commas.

If it were not for this site I would have a new Mac already. Instead, I'm waiting for the next lastest and greatest release. ;)

Oh the frustration ... buy now? ... no wait ... now? ... not yet ... how about now ... next week ... now? ... wait until the Expo ... how about in this life ... wait for the next one :D

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by NicoMan
Boy are you down today!!
Chill, have a joint.

ePig2003

Yeah, I know :-(

I think the lack of sleep through waiting for my G5 to arrive is starting to get to me. You know, 2+ months without sleeping can do funny things to your head !

It's a few days since I last ate. Perhaps some food and a beer may help pass the time. But that'll mean going away from my mac and not being able to check my order status for at least 10 minutes. No, perhaps I'll just wait a little longer, just one more look at my credit card to see if there's a huge pre-auth just come through. You know, that berk suspended in a perspex box next to the Thames doesn't know when he's got it good! 44 days... BAH! I've been like this for 83 and I don't know when it'll end!

e.

[Tommy Wasabi]

I think you guys hit it on the head you when you stated Apple Stores in Europe and iTunes Europe.

There will be no fuel cells this year - nice try though.

There will be new PowerBooks. They'll update the 12, 15, 17. The 15 will be a smaller version of the 17. They'll be 1.25G, the 12" will get a bump to 1Ghz and maybe a backlit keyboard.

Update to iLife - but nothing big

Maybe an update to XSERVE.

But most importantly, Steve will probalby annouce Pather to ship this year - probably Nov 1 with Native 64Bit support within 6-12 months.

Since it's a French thing - that's my two francs.

Tommy

[whooleytoo]

Originally posted by Macrumors
[BApple Expos have not traditionally been the launching pad for major Apple Announcements, so expectations should be modest. [/B]

Bear in mind though, traditionally there have been two big Mac expos in the US, now there's just one. Seeing that Apple seems to (and, IMO, desperately needs to) be expanding it's international market share, a major Euro expo makes a lot of sense.

Mike.

[Kenndac]

Originally posted by Tommy Wasabi
Since it's a French thing - that's my two francs.

Well... France now uses the Euro, and the minor of the Euro is the cent... so it's still two cents :-)

Edit: Stupid spelling

[GrannySmith_G5]

any one know what the biggest announcement ever was at an apple expo in Paris? I just remember last year, which wasn't much of anything.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by esheep2001
I think the lack of sleep through waiting for my G5 to arrive is starting to get to me. You know, 2+ months without sleeping can do funny things to your head !

Well that duallie should be pretty close now??? Hear that doorbell?

eCow1999

[crees!]

Regarding Fuel Cells Apple would be the one to do it. Apple would be first.
That depends. As stated in another post Toshiba and NEC already have publicly displayed prototypes. Also, battery life of a fuel cell can be up to 40 hours. A quick search on Google will pull up these facts.

15.x" and what's the deal with 15.2 again? i thought for sure we were going 15.4.. didn't dell get 15.4 screens? what's up with that?
They will be 15.4". That has been confirmed.

[Sol]

iTunes Music Store for Europe is very likely considering that this show is taking place in Paris and that iTunes for Windows is (presumably) a few weeks away. I just hope that Apple has more than British and American music to offer.

The G5 Xserve is inevitable and Paris would be a good stage to announce the 2nd generation of this product. I expect the top speed to be dual 1.8 GHz for cooling reasons which are paramount in server components. Serial ATA drives would also be likely now that they are standard in PowerMacs.

I also expect that we will get a release date for OS X.3's release. This date may also be the same as related products like OS X Server 10.3, G5 Xserves and the Wireless Mouse and Keyboard (as far as I know there is drivers for these in OS X.3 but not in OS X.2).

The PowerBooks will probably get new G4s and the 15" model will get USB 2.0 and FW 800 as well as a lit keyboard. Whatever the specs, Mac fans on this Forum will likely complain that they are not G5s and whine about it for another couple of months.

Now, what could this mysterious software announcement be? Microsoft has left a hole in the OS X software library with the announcement that Virtual PC does not work with G5 hardware. I believe Apple will fill that hole with their own x86 emulator which will not only take advantage of the G5 but also use the graphics card for a speed boost. If this product is released I would expect Apple to charge for it because ideally its customers should purchase Mac-native software.

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by crees!
They will be 15.4". That has been confirmed.

It was? By whom? Last I read it was going to be 15.2" again. Still, I've decided not to believe in any PB updates at all until I've physically seen them in a shop. I'll take a ruler with me next time I go shopping.

[machem]

Originally posted by iMeowbot
A fuel cell is a kind of battery, producing electricity from a chemical reaction. The big difference is that it uses different chemicals than traditional batteries, and you can refill them instead of buying a new battery or finding an external power source to rechange.

The nice thing about the DMFC (direct methanol) cells that will be appearing in various laptops [Apple is far from alone; both Toshiba and NEC have shown prototypes] is that they don't require you to carry around hydrogen like early versions did. Instead, the hydrogen is extracted from watered-down alcohol. That means the fuel will be fairly cheap and safe.


This is roughly correct. Fuel cells provide electricity from a chemical reaction, using fuel sources instead of metal compounds. In other words, a battery that you "recharge" by refueling. Fuel cells provide a constant current, in contrast to metal batteries (ever wonder why a 1.2V nicad works in place of a 1.5V alkaline?). Another definition of fuel cell is a batter that isn't self-contained.

In a DMFC, hydrogen is not "extracted" from "watered down" alcohol. Rather, the methanol (alcohol) is involved in a reaction similar to combustion which supplies electrons rather than heat. Other types of promising fuel cells include the aluminum-air "battery" and more conventional hydrogen-oxygen FCPUs (see, for example http://www.ballard.com)

[SilentPanda]

I shouldn't read this right when I wake up... I almost wet myself thinking that the Paris Expo happened while I was asleep and that I was a week late for work...

[Docrjm]

Originally posted by Tommy Wasabi
I think you guys hit it on the head you when you stated Apple Stores in Europe and iTunes Europe.

There will be no fuel cells this year - nice try though.

There will be new PowerBooks. They'll update the 12, 15, 17. The 15 will be a smaller version of the 17. They'll be 1.25G, the 12" will get a bump to 1Ghz and maybe a backlit keyboard.

Update to iLife - but nothing big

Maybe an update to XSERVE.

But most importantly, Steve will probalby annouce Pather to ship this year - probably Nov 1 with Native 64Bit support within 6-12 months.

Since it's a French thing - that's my two francs.

Tommy
Don't you mean euros?

I think that to minor speed bump the PB to the same level as the iMac is shortsighted and will not greatly help sales. I know that the 15 and 17 have L3 cache and that the iMac does not, but still.
I think that if we have a major PB announcement it will be for a G5. Anyway since the desktop has switched to G5 I am not upg my Tibook until there is a G5 inside.

[wakedog]

assuming the new powerbooks will have similar (same?) processors as the new iMacs, the powerbooks will be out next week or the week after. Apple may be waiting for their "Buy a bundle get a bundle back" and "FCE for $99" promotions to end later this month before the release.

[QuiteSure]

My life was better before I started visiting Mac rumor sites, now I can't quit.

Is there a 12 step program for rumor addicts?:(

[SilentPanda]

Originally posted by QuiteSure
My life was better before I started visiting Mac rumor sites, now I can't quit.

Is there a 12 step program for rumor addicts?:(

If you find one, please... tell me!

[saabmp3]

Does anybody just want Panther released? I know it's not going to happen now, but honestly I've run out of money to spend on new toys. I just want to give my beautiful 667DVI PB a little face lift. It's only a small thing to ask, maybe somebody else thinks like this too.

BEN

[Sol]

Originally posted by QuiteSure
My life was better before I started visiting Mac rumor sites, now I can't quit.

I know exactly what you mean. This is another form of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Some people constantly wash their hands, others check for updates in Apple rumour sites. If you think it is a problem then try to find other ways to pass the time, preferably with other people.

[QuiteSure]

Originally posted by Sol
I know exactly what you mean. This is another form of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Some people constantly wash their hands, others check for updates in Apple rumour sites. If you think it is a problem then try to find other ways to pass the time, preferably with other people.

The only other people who are willing to talk to me are also Macrumors compulsivites. :confused:

[Sol]

Originally posted by QuiteSure
The only other people who are willing to talk to me are also Macrumors compulsivites. :confused:

Come on, that can't be true! You must be joking.

Maybe you mean to say that the only people you want to talk with are MacRumour compulsives. With such insightful responses as mine I do not blame you. :)

Seriously, if you want to talk Mac but do not want to keep doing this infront of the computer so much then try to make friends with people who are also into computers. I would suggest going to one of those Internet cafes where people can play LAN games.

[neilw]

Why do some folks make such a big deal over 15.4" vs. 15.2"? That's a 2.6% increase in screen area. Hardly perceptible.

An increase in resolution is a different story, but they don't have to increase size to accomplish that.

[j05h]

Originally posted by Fender2112
If it were not for this site I would have a new Mac already.

I've needed to buy a 15 inch powerbook for the last month. I'm stuck with a crappy old dell desktop. I've never really followed these rumor sites before, so I didn't know that they are mostly made up.
I will be buying a powerbook on the 16th or 17th. Even if they aren't upgraded, a 1 Ghz powerbook is going to be a huge upgrade for me. Its not worth waiting a week or two or more when I need it now.

[sedarby]

Originally posted by Sol
Come on, that can't be true! You must be joking.

Maybe you mean to say that the only people you want to talk with are MacRumour compulsives. With such insightful responses as mine I do not blame you. :)

Seriously, if you want to talk Mac but do not want to keep doing this infront of the computer so much then try to make friends with people who are also into computers. I would suggest going to one of those Internet cafes where people can play LAN games.
Bah! Who needs people when you have rumor sites?

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by Sol
Serial ATA drives would also be likely now that they are standard in PowerMacs.

This will likely upset people who already have a supply of the hot swap PATA drives - they wouldn't be able to swap disks between a new Xserve and old Xserves and Xserve RAID arrays.

SATA will come eventually, and maybe in the next update as you say.

My point is that immediately putting the latest buzzword-compliant technology into a server is not necessary. IT departments want continuity and interchangeable parts and systems.

Wait until there is a clear benefit to a change....

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by neilw
Why do some folks make such a big deal over 15.4" vs. 15.2"? That's a 2.6% increase in screen area. Hardly perceptible.
An increase in resolution is a different story, but they don't have to increase size to accomplish that.

But a different size would imply a different component, so a better chance of a new resolution....

You're right though - bigger isn't necessarily better. Especially with laptops, where Apple already produce an insanely large model for those that want all that space.

[crees!]

Originally posted by lord_flash
But a different size would imply a different component, so a better chance of a new resolution....
I take it you meant this.. but if the physical size is larger in width then the screen resolution would have to compensate for that. Isn't 15.4" widescreen?

[ozlow]

I found this on the Art & Visual Technology Site (http://www.avt.gmu.edu/Sys.htm)

It says the following...
IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!

As of 9/1/2003, Apple Computer has yet to release the date they will offer the G5 laptop models.

Please visit www.apple.com for more information regarding this. As soon as it is possible, AVT and Apple will have the special pricing available.

Apple Computer and AVT have arranged for outstanding pricing on a range of systems! Please open or download the AppleAVT agreement PDF document for more details. If you do not have the Adobe Acrobat Reader, you can download it here.

AND IT GOES ON TO SAY>>>

Apple Titanium G4 Laptop Specifications:

Due to the upcoming release of the new Apple G5, the Patriot Computer Store is still offering pricing for the G4 models. This page will be updated with news about the G5 pricing as soon as it becomes available. System specifications will also be announced at that time.

Apple has not yet announced when it will release laptop models outfitted with the G5 processor and configuration. However, the G5 desktop is available for purchase at this time.

HMMMMM... G5 POWERBOOK :)

[t^3]

Something I haven't seen anyone notice is that if Apple does decide to go multibutton mice, then laptops will (presumably) also have a multibutton trackpad too...

[SilentPanda]

Originally posted by t^3
Something I haven't seen anyone notice is that if Apple does decide to go multibutton mice, then laptops will (presumably) also have a multibutton trackpad too...

I actually didn't realise that the Apple laptops had single button trackpads (as I've never used one). This to me is silly. I don't really care that Apple has single button mice for it's desktops. You can replace that no problem. I did and I'm more than happy with the MX700. But replacing a trackpad is (as far as I know/am concerned) impossible. Yes you can buy an external mouse. But having a single button trackpad? That's just silly. For me that seems like a small reason to not buy an apple laptop. Granted I'd probably just get an external Apple Bluetooth mouse (please) but I can see where one could be in situations where using an external mouse isn't a nice option. That just seems silly to me...

*feels an impulse that vaguely feels like a reality distortion field*

Hmmmm... one button trackpads are swell!

:) I enjoy my Apple experience very much don't get me wrong... keep the one button mice forever for all I care... but a multi-button trackpad should be the norm...

[Steven1621]

ahhhhhhhhh! the anticipation! the rumors have been flying for months. hopefully something will finally come through.

[neilw]

I have to say that while I'm a huge advocate of multi-button mice, I have been surprised to find that I don't find the single button on my trackpad to be nearly as much of a bother as a single-button mouse. Why? Well, if you're using the trackpad, then you're hands are around the keyboard anyway, and therefore it's not a big deal to do cntrl-click. I've actually not been too fond of multi-button trackpads on some PC laptops I've tried; because your fingers don't naturally rest on the buttons, I find I constantly have to think about which one to stab at.

Lefties might have a bigger issue, as the PowerBook is currently intended for right-handed trackpadding, using the left hand for cntrl.

To summarize: single button mouse? Ridiculous anachronism. Single button trackpad? No problem.

[actionslacks]

Originally posted by ozlow
I found this on the Art & Visual Technology Site (http://www.avt.gmu.edu/Sys.htm)

It says the following...
IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!

As of 9/1/2003, Apple Computer has yet to release the date they will offer the G5 laptop models.

Please visit www.apple.com for more information regarding this. As soon as it is possible, AVT and Apple will have the special pricing available.

Apple Computer and AVT have arranged for outstanding pricing on a range of systems! Please open or download the AppleAVT agreement PDF document for more details. If you do not have the Adobe Acrobat Reader, you can download it here.

AND IT GOES ON TO SAY>>>

Apple Titanium G4 Laptop Specifications:

Due to the upcoming release of the new Apple G5, the Patriot Computer Store is still offering pricing for the G4 models. This page will be updated with news about the G5 pricing as soon as it becomes available. System specifications will also be announced at that time.

Apple has not yet announced when it will release laptop models outfitted with the G5 processor and configuration. However, the G5 desktop is available for purchase at this time.

HMMMMM... G5 POWERBOOK :)

Somebody pointed this out to me as well.

i doubt that they would know anythiing, but one can hope.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by neilw
I have to say that while I'm a huge advocate of multi-button mice, I have been surprised to find that I don't find the single button on my trackpad to be nearly as much of a bother as a single-button mouse. Why? Well, if you're using the trackpad, then you're hands are around the keyboard anyway, and therefore it's not a big deal to do cntrl-click. I've actually not been too fond of multi-button trackpads on some PC laptops I've tried; because your fingers don't naturally rest on the buttons, I find I constantly have to think about which one to stab at.

Lefties might have a bigger issue, as the PowerBook is currently intended for right-handed trackpadding, using the left hand for cntrl.

To summarize: single button mouse? Ridiculous anachronism. Single button trackpad? No problem.

To be perfectly honest, I couldn't have said it better.
The only real way to enhance productivity on your laptop is not in adding buttons on the trackpad, but in plugging a n-button mouse (where n is a number between 1 and 6, whatever you prefer) with or without scroll-wheel. Your fingers are probably now used to multiple-button on a mouse (if not, Apple mice are for you). But on a trackpad? I don't think the trackpad should be an end in itself: it's there to help you point and click when you cannot use a mouse, IMHO.

ePotato2000

[Apmonia]

I work for Best Buy, which I know sucks but hey, one must get through school somehow. Anyway, we have a new in stock date of 15' Powerbooks as 9-13-2003. There are still the old 15' Powerbooks in our system as well, with an out-of-stock date 9-9-03. Normally we will get computers before they are announced so we have them to sell, much like the new iPods, but unfortunately I could not find any specs on the new Powerbook. The Paris Expo will be good.

[yujini]

But if they do use the G5 in the new 15 inch powerbooks,
what happens to the 7457s?

[daveL]

Originally posted by yujini
But if they do use the G5 in the new 15 inch powerbooks,
what happens to the 7457s?
Who cares? Maybe Cisco will use them. I just hope you don't need too many of them.

[ozlow]

Originally posted by daveL
Who cares? Maybe Cisco will use them. I just hope you don't need too many of them.

I think there's a good possible that they'll go into the new iBook. The iBook team designed the 12" powerbook, so next step would be G4 iBooks.

Plus, iBooks are coming up for an update too.

-oz

[placebos]

Originally posted by Apmonia
unfortunately I could not find any specs on the new Powerbook.

If you could pleeeze do some research and try to find some system specs i'm sure it would be greatly appreciated, plus it would put a damper on this disgusting amount of rumors.

Peace

James

[Apmonia]

James -
I will try to find out some info tomorrow on the specs.

[CreepDogg]

On fuel cells:

Seems to me, like some other posters said, that this is akin to having a battery pack you have to fill with, say, 8 AA batteries. Needs a costly refill every time it is used up. Even if they don't last quite as long, rechargeable li-ion batteries seem much more economical. I'd rather buy 2 of those, and keep them charged, then have a refillable fuel cell pack that lasts as long. Seems great in theory, but it would quickly grow tiresome in practice.

On trackpad buttons:

I deal with the double trackpad button on the Dell I'm subjected to by my employer, and I find it extremely annoying - I constantly hit the wrong button, and would much prefer a single button. I do prefer one-button mice in general, anyway - too many strange hand contortions with fancy multi-buttons and scroll wheels. I'm very happy with a one-button and a PowerMate for scrolling - very comfortable. To each his own, I suppose. But I do agree that multi-button trackpads are a pain. It could be worse - some of my co-workers have a newer Dell with FOUR buttons, the trackpad, AND the little eraser-pad-thingie in the keyboard. The overkill type of design you only find in a Dell.

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by yujini
But if they do use the G5 in the new 15 inch powerbooks,
what happens to the 7457s?

Uh... What 7457's?

I'm not expecting a G5 laptop until well into '04, but seeing the iMac with 7455's doesn't imply that Mot would have to fill too many Hefty bags with working 7457's...

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by CreepDogg
On fuel cells:

Seems to me, like some other posters said, that this is akin to having a battery pack you have to fill with, say, 8 AA batteries. Needs a costly refill every time it is used up. Even if they don't last quite as long, rechargeable li-ion batteries seem much more economical. I'd rather buy 2 of those, and keep them charged, then have a refillable fuel cell pack that lasts as long. Seems great in theory, but it would quickly grow tiresome in practice.


Maybe I'm not thinking of this right, but how much do you expect a shot-glass of gasoline to cost?

Gas is still cheaper than bottled water. The fuel cell will be cheaper than running your Powerbook from your car's cigarette lighter.

I don't know that we're talking the same order of magnitude, but it's worth pointing out that recharging you LiIon isn't free either, you just don't notice the expense compared to your refrigerator...

You won't notice the cost of your fuel cell compared to your car either.

[Ikash]

I sure hope there right its been forever since theyve updated i hipe they put the light up keybord in all the models not just the higer ones. im def gona order one the sec they release

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by Analog Kid
Uh... What 7457's?

I'm not expecting a G5 laptop until well into '04, but seeing the iMac with 7455's doesn't imply that Mot would have to fill too many Hefty bags with working 7457's...
I think the consensus (whatever that means) is that the only way for Apple to speedbump their laptops, short of putting a G5, without compromising their design and usability, is to use the 7457s. IF we get a speedbump, the 7455B is going to be way too hot for the PBs. Now is this going to happen? How should I know?

[CreepDogg]

Originally posted by Analog Kid
Maybe I'm not thinking of this right, but how much do you expect a shot-glass of gasoline to cost?

Gas is still cheaper than bottled water. The fuel cell will be cheaper than running your Powerbook from your car's cigarette lighter.

I don't know that we're talking the same order of magnitude, but it's worth pointing out that recharging you LiIon isn't free either, you just don't notice the expense compared to your refrigerator...

You won't notice the cost of your fuel cell compared to your car either.

I would expect, at first, that fuel cell 'cartridges' would be overpriced. But they would come down pretty quickly.

But that's not entirely the point. Electrical outlets for recharging are ubiquitous. There will always be more of them than places one can get laptop gas. I'd hate to be stuck in a small hotel somewhere with a need to recharge, with nowhere to get more power.

Also - recharging a LiIon costs a fraction of a penny. (Maybe a couple of pennies at most). Let's say fuel cell cartridges end up selling for about $1 (I would expect more - even though fuel is cheap, there'd be the casing & packaging - the 'overhead'). Say the fuel cell lasts twice as long. That's roughly 50 times the cost to power one's notebook.

Unless fuel cells offer an order of magnitude more life, which we're not hearing, it doesn't seem worth it to me. If a fuel cell lasts twice as long, I'd rather have two batteries I can hot-swap, then recharge them.

You can't beat the convenience of rechargeables. IMHO, it would be better to have more focus on improving battery life and recharge times than on any 'refillable' technology.

[machem]

Originally posted by CreepDogg
I would expect, at first, that fuel cell 'cartridges' would be overpriced. But they would come down pretty quickly.

But that's not entirely the point. Electrical outlets for recharging are ubiquitous. There will always be more of them than places one can get laptop gas. I'd hate to be stuck in a small hotel somewhere with a need to recharge, with nowhere to get more power.

Also - recharging a LiIon costs a fraction of a penny. (Maybe a couple of pennies at most). Let's say fuel cell cartridges end up selling for about $1 (I would expect more - even though fuel is cheap, there'd be the casing & packaging - the 'overhead'). Say the fuel cell lasts twice as long. That's roughly 50 times the cost to power one's notebook.

Unless fuel cells offer an order of magnitude more life, which we're not hearing, it doesn't seem worth it to me. If a fuel cell lasts twice as long, I'd rather have two batteries I can hot-swap, then recharge them.

You can't beat the convenience of rechargeables. IMHO, it would be better to have more focus on improving battery life and recharge times than on any 'refillable' technology.

There are two big advantages to fuel cells: size/mass per unit energy, and cost. There is one big disadvantage: availability. New technology is always that way.

Fuel cells indeed offer about 10 or 20 times the capacity per size, and per size they are much lighter. Estimate the size of your battery, and pour that much water in a paper cup. Feel the difference? And methanol/ethanol is only 80% as dense as water.

Related to the size issue is the freedom to use any shape you want. A fuel cell could use any available space in the machine as its storage tank.

What the industry is exploring now is refueling stations, where you drop in a dollar, and either fill up your cartridges, or get a few filled ones. Right now, it is clearly seems like a case of cost versus convenience. Let the first adopters work out the bugs in the system, and it will look more attractive.

In ten years certainly (maybe five?), everyone will look back on heavy metal batteries and shake their heads. Right now, we can't visualize using them every day, because the infrastructure is not in place. Don't forget the waste and disposal issues associated with batteries (I can guarantee you that municipal waste carriers worry about this all day long). There is not much worse solid waste than batteries.

Five years ago, would you ever imagine your laptop replacing a desktop machine? I would never have dreamed it. It's too early now for fuel cells in laptops, though.

[Edit: typos]

[CreepDogg]

I understand there are distinct advantages to fuel cells, and, admittedly, a 50 hour fuel cell on a laptop sounds enticing.

However, I think that to many users, this approach also has drawbacks. I'm troubled by the 'disposable power' nature of this solution, and I think this solution will add significant expense to the provision of portable power.

The waste issue is probably about even - today's rechargeables are more damaging, but more durable. How many disposable (yes, and I think the economics of this will dictate disposable) fuel cartridges will end up in our waste system? And how much gaseous waste from imperfect fuel combustion? And put in all the 'refilling stations' you want - there will never be more refilling stations than we have for current rechargeables. It's hard to beat that convenience.

Hopefully, these issues are being addressed in ways I'm not aware of. I just think it's important to note that each approach has advantages and drawbacks. Either way, it will be interesting to see how this shakes out as users are given a choice (as they certainly will at least at first).

[machem]

Originally posted by CreepDogg
I understand there are distinct advantages to fuel cells, and, admittedly, a 50 hour fuel cell on a laptop sounds enticing.

However, I think that to many users, this approach also has drawbacks. I'm troubled by the 'disposable power' nature of this solution, and I think this solution will add significant expense to the provision of portable power.

The waste issue is probably about even - today's rechargeables are more damaging, but more durable. How many disposable (yes, and I think the economics of this will dictate disposable) fuel cartridges will end up in our waste system? And how much gaseous waste from imperfect fuel combustion? And put in all the 'refilling stations' you want - there will never be more refilling stations than we have for current rechargeables. It's hard to beat that convenience.

Hopefully, these issues are being addressed in ways I'm not aware of. I just think it's important to note that each approach has advantages and drawbacks. Either way, it will be interesting to see how this shakes out as users are given a choice (as they certainly will at least at first).

There are not as many places that you can buy AA batteries as there are outlets either, but people make do. If you have a battery that requires an outlet to recharge, then you must find an outlet. If you have something that runs on disposable batteries, you find a gift shop or pharmacy. You gain some in portability and uniformity versus standard outlets. And you need a cord. Once you add some liquid, you are no longer tied to the cord (which might be less convenient if you keep your laptop at your desk). On the other hand, if you are out in BFE somewhere, it is more likely you will find methanol or ethanol than an outlet. So guess who is really interested in this? And for them, money for development is not a problem.

Also, there are no gaseous waste products from "imperfect fuel combustion". It's not combustion any more than your LiMH battery is.

Anyway, I don't mean to bicker, because it ain't here yet, it ain't going to be soon, and every new technology is a trade-off.

[lord_flash]

Just for the record, I know there are loads of places I can buy AA cells, and my Minidic player works for hours off each one, but I still resent the regular expense.

Personally I view products that come with rechargable batteries (my digital camera, my mobile phone...) as simply being better designed.

As a consumer, I won't give up rechargeability easily, especially not for another opportunity to hand over money to Duracell. I've started to like the fact that I very rarely buy batteries.