Things that are bothering me about Leopard. You all should know.

[TheSpaz]

Spotlight:
Way different than it use to be. It's faster now but, where's my simple, easy to use Spotlight Window? Now, when you click "Show All" it just switches to a plain Finder window with all your results in it. Also, "Show All" in the Spotlight menu doesn't tell you how many results you have anymore... in Tiger, it says "Show All (356)" where 356 would be the number of items it found.

Another thing that is bothering me about Spotlight is trying to Search from the Finder. If I use the Search field in a Finder Window, I am most likely trying to search JUST that folder and all the folders within it but, the Finder reverts to searching the entire drive as default no matter what you chose last time. I use the Spotlight MENU if I wanna search the entire drive.

Oh, and Icon view is the most useless Spotlight view there is. All the names are terribly truncated and you can't read half of them or how about List view, there are no longer any categories to sort results with and there's also no way to get rid of that horizontal scroll bar no matter how big your spotlight window is, you'll always get a horizontal scroll bar when you do a search in it... that's visually annoying because I hate horizontal scroll bars.

Now for the Finder:
The Finder isn't very good at remembering window views... in fact, it doesn't really remember them at all. If you switch to list view... suddenly ALL folders are list view and it's like this for all the different views. The only way around this is to open up the view settings window for every folder that you wish to have a different view and say "Always Open in List View" but, that doesn't work 100% of the time because when you finally get to your custom List View folder, it changes all the folders beyond that to List View as well... so what was the point of that?

There are no more scroll wells in list view anymore... looks weird and it makes it hard to line up the window edges with the icons nicely.

Can't really get rid of sources in the side bar, you can collapse them but, you can't remove them... I wanna get rid of my Searches section.

The Dock:
Stacks are just going backwards! I don't see the point of a stack. How does this make things any easier or more efficient. I actually see it as less efficient because if there's too many items in a stack, you have to view them in the Finder anyway! You used to be able to put your entire hard drive in the Dock and then browse through the menus to find a file you needed without ever leaving the current App you're in. Can't do that anymore.

The 3D Dock also don't make sense compared to everything else in the System because everything else looks flat... as if you're looking DOWN on it. Windows and icons are slightly raised above the surface to give them some depth but, everything looks as if you're looking from above onto a desk-type surface (hence the Desktop). The Dock looks way out of place because it seems as if you're looking out into it because it's perspective is completely different than the perspective of ANYTHING else in the entire OS. I liked the flatter look. It fit better in the OS. Now, I know I can hack the Dock to have the 2D effect (which I did) but, it seems like they made the background of it way too dark. Some of my icons look so weird on such a dark background.... I wish I could change the opacity of it to something more like the Tiger Dock, then I'd be happy.

When you drag icons over icons in the Dock, the icon title slides around for no particular reason.... it seems random too... it doesn't always slide in the same direction. At first, I thought, hey maybe it's following my cursor but, then I hovered over another App and it slid from the opposite direction. I'm not really sure why this is like that.

There's a lot more but, I'll shut up for now. I just wanted to let people know what they're getting in to before they purchase Leopard. Some functions are gone, some functions don't work properly and some functions just don't make any sense.

[CavemanUK]

Dude, im rarely one for getting into a flame war but this message is just a rant about stuff you dont like.. granted you mentioned some possible bugs but overall your just have a good old moan....

By your title, i was under the impression you had something serious to say like warning us about a security issue or something...

[apachie2k]

Dude, im rarely one for getting into a flame war but this message is just a rant about stuff you dont like.. granted you mentioned some possible bugs but overall your just have a good old moan....

By your title, i was under the impression you had something serious to say like warning us about a security issue or something...

agreed, the OP should just take it all in stride, as updated will come, to tweak the system based on the inputs of a much larger population...

[saltyzoo]

Nothing wrong with posting your opinions. I don't think I really "needed to know" as the title suggest, but I can always close the thread if I don't find it interesting. I assume others have this ability also. ;)

[kjr39]

I swear some of you guys would bitch about the way the fire department put you out if you were on fire...

[powerbook911]

I'm glad this user posted because I feel the same way.

Especially on your complain #1 coupled with the fact it searched for fewer files now.

It really gripes me too, and I doubt they'll ever change much of this, since its what they decided to do.

Spotlight took a step backwards.

[saltyzoo]

I swear some of you guys would bitch about the way the fire department put you out if you were on fire...

And some of us would bitch about anybody that bitches. :D :eek:

[kbmb]

Spotlight:
Way different than it use to be. It's faster now but, where's my simple, easy to use Spotlight Window? Now, when you click "Show All" it just switches to a plain Finder window with all your results in it. Also, "Show All" in the Spotlight menu doesn't tell you how many results you have anymore... in Tiger, it says "Show All (356)" where 356 would be the number of items it found.

I will have to agree with you on this issue. I much preferred the sorted/sectioned spotlight window in Tiger. Now it's just a big long finder window.

I will have to say so far Spotlight has been an excellent App launcher. Much improved on this.

-Kevin

[TheSpaz]

I will have to agree with you on this issue. I much preferred the sorted/sectioned spotlight window in Tiger. Now it's just a big long finder window.

I will have to say so far Spotlight has been an excellent App launcher. Much improved on this.

-Kevin

Yeah... Launching Apps from Spotlight is great!

Okay guys... I'll admit.. I was venting a little bit. I just get so frustrated sometimes with Apple's decision making. Why did they have to change so much... just to make it "look" like something you need to upgrade to because it's "different" now? I mean, come on there's really not much else in Leopard besides the stupid interface changes and dumbing down spotlight and the Dock. I got over the transparent menu bar (I do wish it had rounded corners though because everything else has rounded corners).

[ortuno2k]

Like you, I share many of your pains. I've been meaning to put a list together but haven't found the time.
Easy example of another recent bug that I discovered: The date on iCal on the dock is supposed to automatically update - right? And it's done so fine for a few days. But from the 31st (october) to the 1st it didn't change, it would only change when opening iCal and reverting when closing iCal back to the 31st (october).
This was fixed, however, with a system restart, but WHY?
My MBP has been running slightly hotter than before while using normal apps. It was running on batteries yesterday and it completely, randomly SHUT OFF, while it still had a charge of over 70%.
I turned it on again and it would seem to start, but shut off again on the spinning wheel screen, and again and again. I was shocked.
Plugging it in to the charger was the solution to this. Immediately I checked the battery for defects, but it was fine, and it still had a charge of over 70%.
Overall, I'm not too pleased or impressed with Leopard yet.
I've even been thinking about going back to Tiger for a while.
What a waste. :(

[ortuno2k]

Yeah... Launching Apps from Spotlight is great!

Okay guys... I'll admit.. I was venting a little bit. I just get so frustrated sometimes with Apple's decision making. Why did they have to change so much... just to make it "look" like something you need to upgrade to because it's "different" now? I mean, come on there's really not much else in Leopard besides the stupid interface changes and dumbing down spotlight and the Dock. I got over the transparent menu bar (I do wish it had rounded corners though because everything else has rounded corners).

Yeah, again, in my honest opinion, Leopard has a few features here & there, but overall, is an over-hyped piece of software.

[powerbook911]

I do'nt even like the application launching. Quicksilver is so much better. On a big display, I don't want to look up to the upper right corner, when I'm launching quickly. :)

[henry.oswald]

Im more of a lurker on this board but ive also got to say leopard has been a big disappointment

spaces - good idea, but id like to be able to give each space separate dock and wallpaper etc

spotlight - show all is now crap

dock - looks cheap, much better in 2d

speed - this honestly feels slower for me than before, ive got a c2d, might give it a wipe and clean install this weekend.

quick look - looks nice but doesnt add anything important.

safari 3.0 - having troble with it, bunching up words on certain websites
, gone back to firefox for the time.

stacks - could have done a much better with this, good idea. Also dont like how it shows the last file you downloaded in your downloads folder.

time machine/bootcamp - i have no need for these.

overall a big washout!!!!

ive not used automator yet, but to make up for leopard it better beable to cook and clean for me now!

[Nermal]

Yeah, again, in my honest opinion, Leopard has a few features here & there, but overall, is an over-hyped piece of software.

Most of the changes in Leopard have been "under the bonnet" and the UI changes are actually relatively minor.

[saltyzoo]

Yeah, again, in my honest opinion, Leopard has a few features here & there, but overall, is an over-hyped piece of software.

I'm the opposite. I thought it was over-hyped until I played with it a bit on my wife's new mini. It's a lot better than I was expecting.

[jepaz]

Its just a matter of getting used to it. You can always go back to Tiger if you think Leopard is premature for you at the moment.

[TheSpaz]

If I remember correctly... I hated Tiger when it first came out. Now I do not.

[rhoydotp]

quick look - looks nice but doesnt add anything important.

time machine/bootcamp - i have no need for these.

overall a big washout!!!!



i don't think you realize that you don't need a third-party software to be able to read docs (word, xls, rtf, etc ...). and you don't have to open itunes/quicktime to listen to mp3 or watch a short film.

oh yeah, you do have the need for time machine, unless you have a better backup software (free & built-in) ... maybe not bootcamp.

but of course, you are entitled to your own opinions. back to tiger with you then!

[TheStu]

I joined the OS X game late, my MacBook shipped with 10.4.6 and I installed Leopard within the first few days of it coming out.

I had already been running the Leopard Beta for a while, so the UI changes had had time to sink in for me, as had other little things. However, even going from the beta to the GM it felt a whole lot more polished, it felt finished. I get that some people are having issues, and my time has not been perfect either. My machine does not sleep correctly, i will close the lid and it will sleep for about 20s-1min and then the apple will light up, it will make the wakeup noise, and then back asleep for 20s-1min. I do notice that the fans spin up sooner under Leopard than they ever did with Tiger, and have had some runaway process lock my system up twice now.

So, although not everything has gone swimmingly, it feels faster than Tiger, and I like the unified look. I even like the 3D dock, just wish I could have it on the side again.

[henry.oswald]

i don't think you realize that you don't need a third-party software to be able to read docs (word, xls, rtf, etc ...). and you don't have to open itunes/quicktime to listen to mp3 or watch a short film.

oh yeah, you do have the need for time machine, unless you have a better backup software (free & built-in) ... maybe not bootcamp.

but of course, you are entitled to your own opinions. back to tiger with you then!
i honestly dont think i would ever want to open a word document or anything without using the normal software. maybe i will be proved wrong.

after a bit of thought i do like the new preview bit more robust can take the pdf's a lot better, and fount row is generally better.


i did just do a restart mind which tock about 2 mins, used to take 30 seconds. will give it a clean install this weekend.

[skunk]

I see no compelling reason to "upgrade" at all. I actually bought 10.5, but will not install it. I have my dock at the side so that Stacks will not work, even if I wanted it; I use an AEBSn and AirDisk for backup and this will not work with Time Machine either; I have PS 7, which apparently will not work. What on earth is the point of this entirely retrograde OS version?

[aceducy]

Dude, im rarely one for getting into a flame war but this message is just a rant about stuff you dont like a good old moan....


Jezz, another angry little reply that starts off with an apology

Offensive post = rant
Critical of Apple = rant
Less than 500 posts [newbie] = rant
Complain about Leopard = rant
Complain about iPhone = rant
Point out security issues = rant
Tell everyone about bugs = rant
Missspeellings = rant
Politically incorrect = rant
Republican/Conservative = rant
Makes you cry = rant
Too cerebral/makes you think = rant

Spaz - great post! Speak your mind dude. And everything you said is correct. Keep the pressure on Apple - make them deliver for all this over priced, over marketed, over hyped, self-gloating BS. The limp wristed don't-offend-Apple-and-kiss-their-butt crowd will just have to deal with it - like our friend "caveman".

If you noodle spined people would have kept the pressure on Bill Gates, they TOO would have had a good product by now also. Instead he paid $billions to have people tell him he was great - regardless of his performance - and SJ is headed in the same direction.

And watch, in 12 months this not-ready-for-primetime 10.5 beta OS crapp will finally be stellar and well worth it. Believe me, it ain't gonna happen unless you tell them. And be annoying about it, be abrasive. Be a pain - if they get POd then it worked

[Wayfarer]

Want some cheese with that whine? :p

[THX1139]

With all of the shortcomings of Leopard, I see a great opportunity for developers. Within a short while we should see apps that allow for Dock customization, or apps that control other looks and behaviors that people are bitching about. Then there are the Apple updates that eventually come along. Though I suspect that Apple will be reluctant to change much in fear of alienating customers. For every person who doesn't like a certain feature, there are a dozen people who do like it. If Apple decided to can the 3d dock look, there would be plenty of upset people who discover the change after running an update. As for the major features, I'm afraid you are stuck with them until the next OS comes out, or a 3rd party solution comes along. Get used to it, go back to Tiger or try ... that other company.

[TheSpaz]

I wish I could go back to Tiger but, there are a few reasons why I will not go back. Lemme list them.

1. Leopard is FAST! No question about that. Everything is a lot faster in Leopard... everything.

2. Yes, there are some things that look modern in Leopard such as no more brushed metal and I actually like no stripes and the rounded menus look a lot better to me.

3. At first I didn't like the softer shadows but, after a few days of using Leopard, the shadows seemed to blend better in Leopard and it's making Tiger's shadows look a little cheesy and dated

4. Time Machine is amazing! I love it. I no longer have to worry about remembering to back up and then figuring out what files I already have backed up and what files are not.

5. The new iChat is WAY better! Invisible status, Video Effects, Tabbed Chats, New Window Views and Screen Sharing

6. The Leopard Sidebar is pretty nice now. I like the smaller icon view and the color is muted and easy to look at and the drop down arrows make sense for quickly hiding stuff. Tiger's sidebar looks so goofy and thrown together now.

7. Spotlight is blazingly fast and it automatically highlights the first item so I can hit enter and automatically launch the App I was searching for (I don't keep ALL my Apps in my Dock... just the most popular).

8. The new Dock has a feature where you can hold control-shift and the Dock will magnify if you have it set not to and if you already have it set to magnify it will not.

9. Webclip is way cool but, I haven't found a very good use for it though... I need more time to play with it but, I like it.

10. I actually like the new Folder icons... they're more modern looking but, they don't completely match the rest of the system (color wise) but, I don't think they were done with the UI when Leopard was released... I think we'll see iTunes-like scroll bars in the future that will match the folders better.

11. Sharing individual folders.

[TheBigS]

I personally bought Leopard and I love it. I do however agree with quite a few of the points he brought up. My biggest complaint is how the finder doesnt remember window sizes. When you open up the HD say you only have 4 files the window is that big then you click on applications and theres a lot more but the window is the same size. So you make it bigger, close it and bam next time its back to the small size. I sure hope they fix that in an update sometime soon. There is also a lot of things I love about Leopard, my favorite being spaces. It really helps you keep control of a bunch of different windows without having to minimize 1000 things to find what your looking for or use expose where you have to pick out the window.

[bagelche]

Bear with this first newbie post.

I just bought my first mac, which is scheduled to arrive next week. I'm one of those rare breeds who uses a PC at home and a mac at work (go figure!), but that'll change.

I've been using/building PCs for 20 years and have gone through many OS upgrades (I'm diverting before Vista). I hated windows when I began using it because so many things are just so much faster with a command line, plus I've never been huge on eye candy for the sake of eye candy. I now rarely use the command line, but am still obsessed with personalizing my computer to my efficiency quirks. That is where windows explorer and the finder consistently let me down. I want my data organized in a way that makes accessing it more efficient, not less.

I was thinking earlier today about new-OS hating. I disliked XP when I began using it and wasn't even sure why to bother with the new OS, but looking back on win98, I'm glad I'm using XP--I modded away most of my annoyances and accepted the positive upgrades whole-heartedly. We'll see how the move from Tiger to Leopard goes.

I have not used Leopard yet, but I feel for the OP's complaints. They ring true to me in the experiences I've had. I still don't understand why stacks are anything but a regression.

As for those harping on the thread title--geez! note the punctuation. It changes the meaning.

Thanks for the sharing, TheSpaz.

[Wild-Bill]

Yeah, again, in my honest opinion, Leopard has a few features here & there, but overall, is an over-hyped piece of software.

Agreed.


I posted the same exact thing above but it was mysteriously "deleted" for some reason. I hate seeing a checkmark next to a thread I've posted in, only to find that my comment is gone. :mad:

[iGrouch]

The Spaz makes some good points and has a right to express them.

For all who have issues with Leopard apart from posting on boards like these, you should send feedback to Apple. They need to hear this stuff so that they can form a picture on what they need to do to make the OS better. Remember they can only develop the software within a finite framework due to deadlines that must be imposed for marketing reasons. Leopard can easily be tweaked to really make it great.

Overall I think Leopard is a great system and would not go back to Tiger. Yes at the moment 10.5.0 is a little bit slower than 10.4.10 starting up my Mac with all the login items that I have selected but Tiger only got this speedy at 10.4.9. Before that Tiger was much slower at startup than Leopard at the moment.

I upgraded to Leopard with the full expectation that it would not be fully polished. Yes there was one big bummer, Photoshop 7 stopped working for me, but what the ... It was probably time to go and get CS 3.

Apart from all the UI changes that can be easily rectified there are two that Apple could improve/reinstate. The Spaz mentions them.

Leaving out the Search view in the Finder for searches and smart folders is a bit of a regression. Whatever about dropping the Show All alternative Spotlight window not been able to see files in an easily categorized grouped views is remiss of Apple. This was one of the most attractive features of the new Spotlight paradigm introduced in Tiger and I would rank it ahead of speed. The search view replaces column view in searches and smart folders and the view controls in the Finder tool bar reflect this in Tiger. Maybe the feature did not migrate well to Leopard and there was no time to iron out bugs?

Stacks. Stacks are great. I like stacks but, they could be a whole lot better. (Navigable) Like being able to click on a folder in a grid and it changes to show the contents of the folder. This was in one of the earlier builds of Leopard. I have seen video of this online. I would have my Home folder stacked in the Dock and from there be able to go anywhere in my Documents, Pictures, Movies....etc. Also being able to add files or folders to a stack or remove them again. Steve Jobs alluded to this in WWDC07 when he demonstrated making a stack by selecting some files in a folder (I think it was a selection of apps) and dragging them to the Dock to become the new stack. Badging a stack with an icon that visually makes sense needs to be addressed. And last but not least (even though it is something I never used) I can understand those who depended on folders in the dock who depended on the hierarchical menus to navigate to items. This needs to be reinstated. There could be an option in Dock Preferences. Place Files/Folders in Dock as Stack, Classic view or Ask. The default would be stack and with ask when you drop files/folders on the Dock a small HUD pops up with two buttons asking Stack or Classic view.

Apple needs to hear this stuff. So send feedback.

EDIT. In fact I just sent Apple the last 3—4 lines of my second last paragraph above.

[tivoboy]

I have to agree about point 1, the spotlight show all function is a step backwards.

I MUCH preferrred the way SHOW ALL organized the large list into buckets, MAIL, PHOTOS, etc.

I wish I could have just THAT ONE piece back.

[jmmo20]

There are a few issues that annoy me, like the Finder forgetting my custom folder views, activating Time machines also causes Finder to forget custom window sizes.

Spotlight Show All is pretty useless since you can't really see the name at all in icon view. And if you swtich to column then all Finder windows do change as well (previous paragraph).

The transparent menubar just look weird but i'm sure i'll get used to it

The 3d dock is now gone :D I always put the dock on the right side so i get the old plain flat dock (kinda..)

One thing that really puzzles me is: Leopard sees the coming of rounded corners in almost all menus and interface element. But then the rounded menubar corners are now gone. That sounds inconsistent to me. Like different groups within Apple should really sit together and decided consistently.

Apart from those little things, Leopard is great and quite fast indeed.