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arn
Apr 13, 2002, 09:42 PM
Spymac.com (http://www.spymac.com) updated with talk of 800Mhz, Bluetooth TiBooks on Thursday. "Independant" information is available from Kodawarisan (http://www.kodawarisan.com/ug/)... which oeyvind (http://www.oeyvind.org/news/story/0410022000.html) provides a translation which relays the following specs: 800Mhz G4, Bluetooth, Superdrive... and a thicker enclosure.

G4scott
Apr 14, 2002, 12:00 AM
Can anyone remember the last time spymac was right???

Beej
Apr 14, 2002, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by G4scott
Can anyone remember the last time spymac was right??? No. Well, yes, but I will never trust anything they say.



There is an update at the bottom of http://www.oeyvind.org/news/story/0410022000.html:

UPDATE: According various site in Japan, the shipment of PowerBook G4 has been stop, people there are having problem to get PB G4 now, what left is whatever in store there.

jaykk
Apr 14, 2002, 12:12 AM
Wow, sounds good to be true. But i doubt it, especially since they said "no CPUs in coming months". There is a high possibility for MWNY.

This is what i predict :
10.1.4 in few weeks
10.2 - WWDC

upgraded g4 powermac and powerbook - MWNY

Rower_CPU
Apr 14, 2002, 02:24 AM
A thicker enclosure?!?!?!?!?
Are you kidding me?!?!?!?!?

sigh...If this rumor has any credibility, then my faith in Ive and crew has just dropped like a stone...they should not be forcing the Superdrives to work in the PBs...let the technology get to the point where it's feasible.

The world does not need more bulky laptops pretending to be portable...

Don't take a step backwards Apple.

SubFredZero
Apr 14, 2002, 03:41 AM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
A thicker enclosure?!?!?!?!?
Are you kidding me?!?!?!?!?


Well the answer to that question is : YES, they are kidding you... :) It's a spymac rumor so i woulnd't believe it.

The thing I can believe is the 800mhz, it has to be done... But the superdrive : no way. Anyway : a superdrive uses lot's of power so you could only burn when your Tibook isn't on battery power. If you want to burn dvd's buy a iMac...

colaboy
Apr 14, 2002, 04:06 AM
If you go to www.apple.co.jp you can order the middle column tibook 667 through the apple site and get a three business day turnaround as of right now (9am Sunday April 14th GMT). The top end built to order model is 8 days;

=-=-=
納期予定
3 営業日
8 営業日
=-=-=


Which translates in english to;

=-=-=
Payment date schedule
3 business day
8 business day
=-=-=

TiMacLover
Apr 14, 2002, 05:10 AM
For myself I am very poor, I need a Powerbook G4 for next year I am taking a alternitive high school class about Oracle, learning PHP and Java so I need the power my fastest computer I have right now is my Power Macintosh 9500, I had a iBook 300 but sadly stolen by a family member and lets just say it went towards drugs :( If apple was to release a new Tibook soon the G4 400Mhz models would go down, already I saw one go for $996 on eBay a week ago and it was the standard I would be killing for air to have a Powerbook G4 400 with 256 RAM and DVD.


Can You Deny A Face Like That?

BeerDrinker29
Apr 14, 2002, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by SubFredZero


Well the answer to that question is : YES, they are kidding you... :) It's a spymac rumor so i woulnd't believe it.

The thing I can believe is the 800mhz, it has to be done... But the superdrive : no way. Anyway : a superdrive uses lot's of power so you could only burn when your Tibook isn't on battery power. If you want to burn dvd's buy a iMac...

Nope, the thicker enclosure rumor was started by a japanese user group. Spymac is simply linking to it.

And if it is thicker., who cares? My Tibook feels far too fragile. I'm sure it wouldn't be like 3inches or anything.

iapple
Apr 14, 2002, 06:35 AM
more spymac bs..

the 800mhz seems ok, but the superdrive, just won't fit/or work. Who wants to burn DVDs on the road anyway??? It takes sooooo long. You'll run out of battery just by editing the movie..

not tibooks for awhile, that's what I say..

Mr. Anderson
Apr 14, 2002, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by Beej

There is an update at the bottom of http://www.oeyvind.org/news/story/0410022000.html:


That link died. Figures.

Even though it spymac, they do have outside sources. And it does say that the new TiPB will be out in May - WWDC.

With all the speculation, even if they are right, half the people here think they'll be a TiPB in May anyway.

King Cobra
Apr 14, 2002, 07:51 AM
I also noticed that on spymac's report that new iBooks were going to come out before June. When was the last time (other than the Combo Drive Powerbooks) that Apple updated their line of products in only 4 months instead of 6?

As for Powerbooks and Bluetooth, does this mean a wireless Apple Pro Mouse? That would be interesting...

And Apple would not want to increase the thickness of the Powerbook more than an inch. The limit Apple makes their portables in weight should be 6 pounds. By making the enclosure bigger you just add more weight. I would rather wait for technology to catch up and squeeze in a Superdrive later if one doesn't fit now, as Rower_CPU posted.
_______________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

gregorypierce
Apr 14, 2002, 09:31 AM
Increasing the thickness of the TiBook would be a step backwards as many people who want them want the ultra-light and ultra-capable machine. Putting a superdrive in them should at best become an option as I personally don't see the need for burning DVDs in a laptop. An increase in speed does make sense as does bundling in BlueTooth - but BlueTooth is soooo young that I don't see the value add of putting it in now - best to keep those extra dollars in profit margin on the machine.

So out of all of that the one thing that makes sense to me is the speed bump. All of the other stuff seems to be quite a stretch.

Mr. Anderson
Apr 14, 2002, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by gregorypierce
Increasing the thickness of the TiBook would be a step backwards as many people who want them want the ultra-light and ultra-capable machine.

Hold you're opinion untill you see it. An increase in thickness could be 1/32", miniscule. Or it could be more. I'll take a wait and see attitude here. I don't think Apple would make a huge jump in thickness, it just doesn't make sense.

britboy
Apr 14, 2002, 09:45 AM
if these rumours are close to being true, i'll be very tempted to sell my rev a and get a new model :) I do quite a bit of video editing for church/friends/family, so having a dvd burner on a portable would be sweet. I mostly use my tibook plugged in, so i wouldn't be worried about the battery usage of a superdrive.

Now what was my ebay password.... :D

G4scott
Apr 14, 2002, 10:05 AM
I can find only one reason for Apple making the PowerBook thicker (like, .2 inches, or so), and that's if they added a hot-swappable drive bay. That is what most professionals loved with their older PowerBook G3's, and made them reluctant to buy a PowerBook G4, even though you could attach almost anything with firewire.

A hot swapable drive bay could allow for 2 batteries (redesign the batteries), and future implementation of a superdrive.

I'm skeptical about the superdrive, though, because if I remember correctly, when it first debuted, the drive itself was bigger (longer) than other CD drives. I do also believe that it would use way too much power, and that it would heat up a lot.

These are just my opinions, but I don't think that many people would mind a little thicker TiBook for a hot-swappable drive bay...

greg6028
Apr 14, 2002, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by britboy
if these rumours are close to being true, i'll be very tempted to sell my rev a and get a new model :) I do quite a bit of video editing for church/friends/family, so having a dvd burner on a portable would be sweet. I mostly use my tibook plugged in, so i wouldn't be worried about the battery usage of a superdrive.

Now what was my ebay password.... :D


Are you currently using an ext. DVD burner with your G4 Powerbook?
I am looking to do the same, what hardware and software are you using?

Greg

Xapplimatic
Apr 14, 2002, 11:08 AM
OK, for those who are asking "what do we need to burn DVDs in a portable for anyways.." The answer is, most of the people doing it would not be doing it at the beach, but at home at school, or at the office. Burning DVDs may take a while, and I'm sure people won't be doing it in coffee houses, but there's no reason they wouldn't do it in other locations where they tend to spend 1/3 of their weekdays (like work). It's just another option for more efficient use of time.. why have to go home to burn that DVD for a coworker or your video class professor if they can have it before you leave for the day? :)

To give an example from my own situation, I HATE desktops. I will never have anotherone if its possible. Why buy a bulky desklamp if you can have a svelt little book shaped thing that does everything a desktop can do, BUT it goes with you everywhere.. There's no point to having a shelf filler if it can move more easily for working at other locations. It's likely I would burn DVDs at home, but on a TiBook.. sitting right where otherwise a desktop would have been in the old days.

chibianh
Apr 14, 2002, 11:42 AM
800mhz? Could this be that new low-powered mobile Apollo chip? or would it be the older G4 800mhz?

Grokgod
Apr 14, 2002, 12:02 PM
Considering that the Apollo chip is already in the new powermacs, i cant see why Apple wouldnt put it into the new Ti.

800 seems the logical speed bump if you use the recent trends in speed changes as a point of departure, but I think that 1 ghz will be the high end.
Apple will just take out the Apollo from the powermac and slap that baby into the Ti.
No fuss or bother.

to really call the Ti the power house that it deserves to be called, it needs to be bumped to 1 ghz. I think that Apple is going to go for speed and power this year to make up for produciton problems etc.

When the powerbook goes 1 ghz. I will be going to the nearest Apple store to lay down my $3000.00 with a large smile on my face!

Which is the best way to make a transaction, ask any lady of the night.

chibianh
Apr 14, 2002, 12:11 PM
I really highly doubt a 1ghz Tibook.. only because i'm a pessimistic (is that how u spell that?) person. However, just the thought of it is making me drool.. :P~~

And, like you Grokgod, I will also be going to the nearest Apple store and getting one with a big smile. Actually, I'll probably just order one from the school store :)

britboy
Apr 14, 2002, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by greg6028



Are you currently using an ext. DVD burner with your G4 Powerbook?
I am looking to do the same, what hardware and software are you using?

Greg


No, i've been converting to VCD. The quality isn't as good as i'd like though; i'd prefer to keep the dv quality.

Hardware: the VST Smartdisk that apple were giving away as an offer last year.
Software: iMovie (initially), fcp, after effects.

Billicus
Apr 14, 2002, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by gregorypierce
An increase in speed does make sense as does bundling in BlueTooth - but BlueTooth is soooo young that I don't see the value add of putting it in now - best to keep those extra dollars in profit margin on the machine.


Bluetooth has been around since the mid nineties, but I do agree with you.

dongmin
Apr 14, 2002, 01:30 PM
Bluetooth makes sense for portables. The fewer cables, cradles, and whatnot I carry with my iBook the better. My iBook can look rather hideous when I have a mouse, ethernet, headphone, firewire external drive, and security cable all attached to the side. I wouldn't mind reducing a few of those.

I dream of the day when I can get wireless electric power to my ibook. Then we'll truly be cable-free...

Biggles
Apr 14, 2002, 02:03 PM
hey i gotta question for all you "all-knowing, big cheeses of the Mac world". I'm really very interested in a TiBook, but it only lacks one thing: the dvd burning capabilities. I love making short movies with my friends (edited with iMovie of course) and i would love to use iDVD to create an awesome DVD. But what Im wondering is if its possible to use iDVD with certain external drives? Or would i just have to use Toast to burn em?

And yes i know i could do all that stuff right now with a new iMac, but i really have my eyes on a laptop right now. I mean i love using my computer, but wouldnt it be better if you could take your little machine outside on a warm day and type up a paper or surf the web on your back porch? or talk to all your friends on AIM while lying down on the couch watching Simpsons? I thought so :)

Catfish_Man
Apr 14, 2002, 03:04 PM
...in a new TiBook would likely be an MPC7445, which is the low-power version of the MPC7455 in the new PowerMacs. It tops out at 800MHz (while using less power than the current top-of-the-line TiBook), so an 800MHz TiBook seems *very* likely. I'm just not sure when. (btw, I was equally sure that the new iMac was going to have a 750fx in it, so take this with a grain of salt. I don't have any "inside information", just logic.)

rice_web
Apr 14, 2002, 03:21 PM
Hey Guys,

remember that Apple is releasing financial info on Wednesday. Those figures must be below expectations (I've watched analysts forecasts for Apple), and thus an updated PowerBook is very likely. I actually wouldn't be surprised if a 1GHz chip was placed into the PowerBook.

Look at it this way:
The Apollo that is used in the PowerMac actually uses less power than the processor in the PowerBooks now, so why not?

Grokgod
Apr 14, 2002, 03:32 PM
Yea , thats what I was saying that the powermac cpu uses less power!
So isnt it likely that they would just slap that baby into a powerbook.

Doesnt that make sense?, does anyone have any information that disputes this possibility.

maclamb
Apr 14, 2002, 03:32 PM
You *are* aware there the Oracle database and client (SQL*PLUS) software will not run under OSX. JDeveloper does as it is 100% java.
You can run Oracle DB under VPC/win2k and can use unix to telelnet to a server that has sqlplus......

SPG
Apr 14, 2002, 04:10 PM
re: burning DVD's externally: Toast 5 with an external Firewire AO3 drive works fairly well, but that setup won't run iDVD since iDVD requires an INTERNAL superdrive. If you have DVDSP on a tiBook you'll be okay though.

Has anyone here thoguht that the rumored "increased thickness" may only be on the top end which would accomodate the DVD burner? And besides since we've all agreed that the current AO3 won't fit and that this would have to be at least a revision of it to be anywhere close to fitting, that the possible increase in thickness might be so small as to be only noticed with a caliper?

I for one have given up on saying what won't happen. I'd like to point out a few recent rallying cries:
A G3 in the new iMac? Never!
Superdrive iMacs for less than $3000? No way!
LCD's in iMacs? Too expensive to produce so it'll never happen!
A bigger iBook? It's meant to be tiny!

There will eventually be a DVD burning laptop, even if it doesn't come out right now. Let's give Apple the benefit of the doubt on this one (although I still have my doubts about Spymac).
_______________________
Bring it on!

emdezet
Apr 14, 2002, 05:18 PM
Didn't i recently read someone in this forum give specifications of the kind:

733(800)MHz, 133MHz, 1536x1024@15,2", 30(48)GB, Radeon7500 Mobility?

Add Bluetooth and a mouse, as suggested, and I rather like the expansion bay idea with the option to switch between battery and optical drive. If they do get Airport and Bluetooth to coexist peacefully they could as well preinstall them. Slap 10.2 (with major performance improvement) on top of it, and people won't honestly ask about that superdrive issue, that's my guess.

But then again - they made the iBook ugly to accommodate a friggin 14"screen. Why not bloat up the definition of slim by a nifty inch?

gopher
Apr 14, 2002, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by maclamb
You *are* aware there the Oracle database and client (SQL*PLUS) software will not run under OSX. JDeveloper does as it is 100% java.
You can run Oracle DB under VPC/win2k and can use unix to telelnet to a server that has sqlplus......

Actually someone has made an Oracle SQL interface for Mac OS X that does not require VirtualPC

http://www.macosguru.de/us/

Onyxx
Apr 14, 2002, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by SubFredZero


Well the answer to that question is : YES, they are kidding you... :) It's a spymac rumor so i woulnd't believe it.

The thing I can believe is the 800mhz, it has to be done... But the superdrive : no way. Anyway : a superdrive uses lot's of power so you could only burn when your Tibook isn't on battery power. If you want to burn dvd's buy a iMac...

Exactly. people seem to forget that the number 1 reason for getting a laptop is portability! I do not want to see a thicker enclosure at any cost nor do i want to see a super drive. Who whats to sit around while you tibook munches away at burning a dvd for a half an hour! It's a laptop! What i want to see is Apollo g4's (i don't care about the mHz), larger standard drives, higher res/brightness screen, a second firewire/fw2 port (video people know why), and lithium polymer batteries. The above will add up to an incredible PORTABLE machine. For all you crazies out there saying "I need a super drive in my portable because, well, i want one..." shut up! If you have any idea of the usefullness of a light, powerfull, long battery life portable, you will instantly see the stupidity of including fledgling dvd-r tech into a pro portable. Make it light, powerfull and long lasting and it will sell. If they put superdrives in, people will be selling them.

emdezet
Apr 15, 2002, 04:18 AM
You guys, seriously, I just had the best idea about how you could use a dvd-r drive in the Titanium:

1. It could be independently powered to save battery.
2. The connection should have firewire speed.
3. And in order not to make the TiBook case too fat
it should be slapped into a seperate...

Wait a minute. I'm talking about an external drive here.
Well, anyway, neat idea, ain't it :-)

JUST GIMME THE 1536x1024 AND THE APPROPRIATE GPU, GODDAMM*T!
AND GIMME IT IN MAY! MY IBOOK'S BIRTHDAY IS COMING UP!

G4scott
Apr 15, 2002, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by emdezet
JUST GIMME THE 1536x1024 AND THE APPROPRIATE GPU, GODDAMM*T!
AND GIMME IT IN MAY! MY IBOOK'S BIRTHDAY IS COMING UP!

Heh, my birthday is in may, during WWDC too... I would like a new PowerBook/G4iBook (who knows, they said there would never be a G4 in the iMac, and the G3 is getting old. My grandma has a G3, and wait, so do I...)

I still believe that the best thing for the TiBook would be hot-swappable removable drive bays!

a 1ghz processor, higher screen resolution, and some other nifty stuff like that would be nice too...

Don't let us down Apple!

ftaok
Apr 15, 2002, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by Onyxx


Exactly. people seem to forget that the number 1 reason for getting a laptop is portability! I do not want to see a thicker enclosure at any cost nor do i want to see a super drive. Who whats to sit around while you tibook munches away at burning a dvd for a half an hour! It's a laptop! What i want to see is Apollo g4's (i don't care about the mHz), larger standard drives, higher res/brightness screen, a second firewire/fw2 port (video people know why), and lithium polymer batteries. The above will add up to an incredible PORTABLE machine. For all you crazies out there saying "I need a super drive in my portable because, well, i want one..." shut up! If you have any idea of the usefullness of a light, powerfull, long battery life portable, you will instantly see the stupidity of including fledgling dvd-r tech into a pro portable. Make it light, powerfull and long lasting and it will sell. If they put superdrives in, people will be selling them. Are you kidding????

There are lots of people who don't want desktops because they're so bulky and the laptop is the perfect solution. I move from place to place, so a laptop is the perfect machine for me.

But I also want a SuperDrive so that I could burn DVD movies wherever I happen to be. Just because you don't want/need a SuperDrive in your laptop doesn't mean that it's not useful to others.

And who says that adding a SuperDrive to the TiBook (or iBook) will require a thicker enclosure? Just because the current ones won't fit doesn't mean they're not working on producing ones that do.

New Guy
Apr 15, 2002, 08:24 AM
I am interested in,purchasing a new TiBook as soon as the news ones are released. I would absolutely love a SuperDrive (if it would fit). That is the only thing that would be lacking in the PowerBook as far as I'm concerned. I would , however, most likely only burn DVDs when at home/work or when I cold be plugged-in. Therefor, if Apple made iDVD a free download and functional with external DVD burners I wouldn't see the need for a SuperDrive in the laptop.

Apple should get-on-the-ball and make iDVD as compatible with DVD burners as iTunes is with CD-Rs.

mcrain
Apr 15, 2002, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by New Guy
I am interested in,purchasing a new TiBook as soon as the news ones are released. I would absolutely love a SuperDrive (if it would fit). That is the only thing that would be lacking in the PowerBook as far as I'm concerned. I would , however, most likely only burn DVDs when at home/work or when I cold be plugged-in. Therefor, if Apple made iDVD a free download and functional with external DVD burners I wouldn't see the need for a SuperDrive in the laptop.

Apple should get-on-the-ball and make iDVD as compatible with DVD burners as iTunes is with CD-Rs.

It seems to me that most PC users who are willing to consider apple are looking for something that will do everything that Apple's are famous for. In addition, most or at least many of us want portability and are attracted to the Tibook's case.

So, how many of us who are willing to convert do you all think are willing to go out and buy a TiBook and a G4 tower just so we can burn a DVD.

I am willing to switch to apple, but I'm only going to start out by buying one computer, and I want it to do all that Apple is supposed to be good at, including DVD authoring.

I also want a portable computer, so, I for one am willing to plug my machine in if that means I can burn a DVD.

How hard would it be to make it so that you can't burn a DVD unless you have plenty of battery for the length dvd you plan on burning, or unless you are plugged in.

Either that, or give us the option of using an external dvd-r with the non-pro level dvd authoring software.

New Guy --> Hear hear, I'm with ya man. Give me my all in one machine, and make it portable.

3xtrmn8r
Apr 15, 2002, 10:41 AM
no SuperDrives in TiBooks, 2 Reasons
fan on drive, too big
burnt palm, 1.5" thick
-----
Not yet anyway.

SPG
Apr 15, 2002, 03:41 PM
Jesusfreakinchristonapogostick! A current superdrive won't fit! Duh. We know that. The only way they will get a DVD burner into a laptop is by redesigning the drive or coming out with a whole new drive. That said, the redesigned/new/modified/othervendor DVDR drive in a laptop is a possibility. Whether it comes out soon or not is the rumor.
You guys who scream and cry like the world is going to end if the new incarnation of the tiBook can burn DVD's are probably the same ones who cried about the lack of a floppy on the imac. Get over it, the future is DVDR and DVDRW and as soon as it fits into a laptop it will be there, at least on the high end.
__________________
Whoa, the vent was left wide open.

gopher
Apr 15, 2002, 04:23 PM
Several companies, including Formac now make an external burner based on Apple's own Superdrive that plug in via Firewire I suggest if you want a portable, and the benefit of burning DVDs from time to time, to consider getting both. The external DVD burners are down to $550.

mcrain
Apr 16, 2002, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by gopher
Several companies, including Formac now make an external burner based on Apple's own Superdrive that plug in via Firewire I suggest if you want a portable, and the benefit of burning DVDs from time to time, to consider getting both. The external DVD burners are down to $550.

Yes, but Apple, in a manner similar to M$'s anti-competitive behavior, has decided that those who buy non-apple branded external dvd drives can't use apple's iDVD software.

So, the option I'm looking at is I have to go out and buy my first Apple in forever, a TiBook, then I have to buy an external firewire DVD-r drive, and very expensive DVD authoring software just so I can do what a non-portable iMac with superdrive can do. Plus, I don't get iDVD's simplicity and (for a total amatuer like me that's something I must have) I have to figure out all the buttons and menus of some pro-level software. Yeah, that sounds like fun.

What I want is a portable computer that's simple to use. I'm no pro, but that doesn't mean I can't spend money with the best of them. So, an internal DVD-r in a portable would be wonderful for me so I can use iDVD and carry around a lot less, or give me a revision of iDVD that will allow me to use an external firewire DVD-r drive.

I don't think that's asking too much.

Inertia : a mac nut at rest wants all the desktop computers to stay exactly like the one they have, and a mac nut in motion wants wants all the portables to stay exactly like the one they have.

In order to overcome inertia, Apple must exert a force.

Force : no floppy in original iMac; cd-rw in ibook, 14" ibook (as examples)

Just because y'all own a 12" ibook and you like it doesn't mean that a 14" ibook is so bad and others don't crave it.

Just because you mobile professionals like your tibook as it is now doesn't mean there aren't those of us, and even some like yourselves, who couldn't find a use for a mobile computer with a built in superdrive.

Yes, I know it won't fit, but like my father always said, if it doesn't fit, whack it a few times till it does.

mcrain
Apr 16, 2002, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by gopher
The external DVD burners are down to $550.

So, it's ok for me to pay for a dvd/cd-rw combo drive that doesnt' really do what I want it to do?

drastik
Apr 16, 2002, 09:38 AM
The external DVDR's are getting cheaper, and I might be wrong, but when we were having this same argument about a week ago, someone mentioned a patch to run iDVD on external drives. I'll go looking for it.

Anyway, I don't think anyone wants to limit the technology in the tibook, we just don't want books that are too heavy and catch on fire. Wait and see, and the technology will get there. I want to rush out and buy every new Mac out there, too. but if you wait just a little while, a matter of months in most cases, a better on will be released.

Me I'm waiting for a g5 tower and atleast a gighz on the TiBook, but I'm greedy and don't make much money.

drastik
Apr 16, 2002, 10:00 AM
okay... I found some external patches, but all of them are third party hacks and seem to be pretty unreliable. I really agree that apple should be making iDVD more accessable. On the other hand, its free if you have the superdrive, so it really isn't anticompetitive. I use Studio Pro, and I love it. It allows you to do a lot more than iDVD and its not really complicated. Of course, the price tag is pretty steep, but that's life. I don't understand how some of you can be glib about dropping three grand on a TiBook and then complain about paying for pro software. Try to get a package that has everything you want for the best price. Soem of you must not be spending your own money.

Of course the best thing to do is go into business for yourself, then you can write off all your gear and software. Of course, some of you are spending daddy's money, and don't have any taxes to write off.

I don't mean to be rude, but the issue of price on pro software is ridiculous, Apple's is cheaper than almost anyone, and its rapidly becoming the standard.

New Guy
Apr 16, 2002, 10:44 AM
Of course the best thing to do is go into business for yourself, then you can write off all your gear and software. Of course, some of you are spending daddy's money, and don't have any taxes to write off.

I don't mean to be rude, but the issue of price on pro software is ridiculous, Apple's is cheaper than almost anyone, and its rapidly becoming the standard.



While I am a Graphic Designer from 9-5 I am a soon to be Father and wanna be Speilberg (with regards to future baby movies) on my off hours. I do have access to PhotoShop, Illustrator, and other professional Graphics apps but do not see the need to plunk down two thousand dollars of my own money to get FCP and DVDSP when I would be happy with iMovie and iDVD.

The reason I am willing to spend the cash (my own) on a TiBook is:

1. Future compatibility (a G4 is necessary for this . . . in my opinion)

2. I believe (although I amy be wrong about this) that an external DVD Burner (whether it works with iDVD or not) would not be compatible with a G3 iBook at its current speed

3. Screen size

4. Overall speed

mcrain
Apr 16, 2002, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by drastik
On the other hand, its free if you have the superdrive, so it really isn't anticompetitive.

That argument obviously worked wonders for M$'s attorneys when they said that internet explorer was free and therefore not anti-competitive.

The whole argument against "free" bundled software as anti-competitive is that if M$ bundles IE with its windows, and makes it so that that free software has to be on the desktop, it makes it very unlikely that anyone will buy Netscape. As we saw, that is in fact what happened.

Apple puts itunes, idvd, iphoto etc. on its computers, and just like IE worked with windows, those software titles work with OSX. But, unlike IE, those titles are not being released with the OS that is on the vast, vast majority of computers. If they were, there would be companies trying to sell their software to apple owners, but would be failing due to the existance of itunes, idvd, etc...

That would inevitably result in a lawsuit. Whether it would be successful or not, who knows.

ftaok
Apr 16, 2002, 11:57 AM
Mcrain,

I posted this on the other thread, but you didn't comment there. Here it is again, for posterity.


Originally posted by mcrain
So, obviously, M$'s giving away IE and optimizing everything to use its software couldn't possibly be anti-competitive?

The fact of the matter is that if Apple had 95% of the market right now, their business practices would be tested in court. I don't know if they would hold up or not, but I guarantee you an attorney (like me who isn't completely computer literate) will see what Apple is doing as sounding enough like anti-competive behaviour to bring suit.

Just like viruses which are designed to go after the OS that is used in the majority of systems, attorneys for private companies and the government see M$ as the deep pockets, and thus the target.

Right now, Apple isn't really on the radar screen, and I would worry that if the stars all line up and Apple becomes the dominant player in the OS/Hardware/Server market, it will be attacked, because it's actions "look" anticompetitive enough for an attorney with minimal skills to draft a complaint that would survive a motion to dismiss.


macrain,

I hear you on the anti-trust stuff, but to compare what Apple does to what Microsoft has done is really apples and oranges. And I'm not talking about market share either.

What Microsoft has been found doing is optimizing the Windows code to make competitors products as unstable as their own stuff. It would be like Company A making a great word processor for Windows that's super-stable and bug-free. Then, Microsoft would change the Windows code (in some sort of update) to deliberately make Company A's word processor buggy. They've been called to the table for that kind of behavior. To my knowledge, Apple has not done that.

Furthermore, what Apple does with iDVD is their business. Would I like to see it work with external DVD burners? Yes. Do I expect it? No. There is no anti-competitive shananigans here at all. Apple bundles iDVD with their own hardware. Since Apple does not sell external DVD burners, they shouldn't have to add support for such devices. Here's an analogy: Is Apple guilty of anti-trust behavior because they do not bundle Windows software for iPods? Of course not, so why should Apple be expect to support hardware that they do not sell?

drastik
Apr 16, 2002, 01:10 PM
I see your point regaurding compatibility, your right, a G4 is going to be neccesary.

In that vein, you need a new machine. The question is, what machine do you need. You can skip the two thousand bucks for software and spend it on a new imac or even a tower. if you keep the ibook, you've got the best of both worlds and I envy you.

Most people, myself included, can't afford two new machines so close together, though. All I'm trying to say is that apple shouldn't rush the TiBook superdrive. The technology will get there and they will carry the drives.

Mobility for designers is key, even if it means shelling out for an extra monitor on the desk for the hard labor. (this frustrates me since video mirroring only seems to be the creedo of affordable apple laptops) Personaly, I still use my G3 casing with a ProLogix G4 upgrade.

I wish the TiBooks had a superdrive too, but one that works faster on less power and fits in the casing, I'd love tohot swap too, but that seems a little much to ask for.

iGav
Apr 16, 2002, 01:45 PM
I'd love a superdrive in my TiBook, but I really believe that this could be awhile away....... Years not months.......

The TiBook is a superb machine, and all this talk of making the enclosure bigger worries me and I really hope that Apple don't ruin the form and function of the TiBook by trying to squeeze in the technology and making the case bigger!!!

The superdrive will be reduced in physical dimensions as it evolves and then we shall see its appearance in Apples portable range.......

Talk of hot swappable bays in the TiBook is crazy........ and simply isn't going to happen because of A: the TiBooks size and B: You can't go taking huge chunks out of the TiBook and maintain structural strength, as they're pretty flexible now......

ftaok
Apr 16, 2002, 02:10 PM
You gotta look at who you're talking about here. We're talking Steve Jobs. There is no way that he's gonna approve thickening the TiBook case to fit in a SuperDrive. He's gonna wait until the SuperDrive is slimmed down to fit before he puts it in the TiBook. I think that we're more like months away from that, rather than years. There was a rumor that Pioneer was demo'ing a slim SuperDrive during MWTokyo.

G4scott
Apr 16, 2002, 05:13 PM
Apple did hot swappable dirves in the PowerBook G3's, and I didn't see any problems with them.

Maybe Apple will make at TiBook like the current ones, with a DVD/CDRW, 800mhz G4, etc., and make it their mid portable.

Then they could make a TiBook, or some other notebook that's just a little thicker, with the same 15" screen, a higher resolution, up to 1ghz G4's, and hot swappable drive bays.

Just remember, nothing is impossible. Apple can put hot-swappable bays in a semi-thin laptop if they tried.

mcrain
Apr 17, 2002, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by ftaok
There is no anti-competitive shananigans here at all. Apple bundles iDVD with their own hardware. Since Apple does not sell external DVD burners, they shouldn't have to add support for such devices. Here's an analogy: Is Apple guilty of anti-trust behavior because they do not bundle Windows software for iPods? Of course not, so why should Apple be expect to support hardware that they do not sell?

Actually, your analogy isn't the problem. Apple can choose who it markets its products to without smelling like a potential lawsuit, however, when it does things that supress other companies from selling their products, that's when I start thinking that someone will sue.

By the way, if the anti-trust suit against M$ is based on M$'s attempts to make other companies software not work, that's different from anything I had read. (Granted, I don't really care much about the suit).

However, it was my understanding that what M$ did was bundle the IE software and make it so that it was always on the desktop, thus making a consumer unlikely to purchase Netscape. That is what I thought the Court held was anti-competitive.

So, the analogy isn't that apple isn't making ipods compatible with PC's, but rather, that apple bundles iPhoto with the mac, thus making it highly unlikely that a consumer will buy HP's new photo managment software.

Don't get me wrong on this whole thread. I'm not saying Apple IS anti-competitive, but that as an attorney, I could draft a complaint that would be a major hassle for Apple (assuming I worked for the Feds-which I don't).

The world isn't black and white, it's green, and M$ has the most green right now, so its the target du jour.

ftaok
Apr 17, 2002, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by mcrain


Actually, your analogy isn't the problem. Apple can choose who it markets its products to without smelling like a potential lawsuit, however, when it does things that supress other companies from selling their products, that's when I start thinking that someone will sue.

By the way, if the anti-trust suit against M$ is based on M$'s attempts to make other companies software not work, that's different from anything I had read. (Granted, I don't really care much about the suit).

However, it was my understanding that what M$ did was bundle the IE software and make it so that it was always on the desktop, thus making a consumer unlikely to purchase Netscape. That is what I thought the Court held was anti-competitive.

So, the analogy isn't that apple isn't making ipods compatible with PC's, but rather, that apple bundles iPhoto with the mac, thus making it highly unlikely that a consumer will buy HP's new photo managment software.

Don't get me wrong on this whole thread. I'm not saying Apple IS anti-competitive, but that as an attorney, I could draft a complaint that would be a major hassle for Apple (assuming I worked for the Feds-which I don't).

The world isn't black and white, it's green, and M$ has the most green right now, so its the target du jour. The details of the Microsoft anti-trust suit are humoungous. My example was only a small part of it, as was the IE/desktop debacle. Microsoft was guilty of tons of stuff.

As far as Apple bundling programs that are comparable to what others are trying to sell (i.e. iPhoto vs. HP Photo Software), I think that Apple deliberately keeps their apps less than "full-featured" to keep vendors happy. Besides, it's not Apple's job to not compete with other's peoples software. I'll use an analogy from the old System 7 days. Back then, the menu bar didn't have a clock on it. You had to use a shareware program called Super Clock. Then somewhere along the line, Apple incorporated it into the system software for free. Sounds like they killed a market there (granted, it's only a small shareware program).

If Apple worried about pi$$ing off all software vendors, we wouldn't have great programs like iTunes, iPhoto, etc. that are much better and easier to use than the competition.

I think that you'd be able to cobble up a case against Apple, but I'm just saying that Apple isn't nearly as bad when it comes to abusing power as Microsoft is/was.

edit -- Oh, I almost forgot about the iDVD stuff. If you buy an external DVD burner, the vendor should include software for it. It should have a DVD authoring application at a minimum. Whether the vendor creates their own software or licenses it, that's their business. Apple shouldn't have to include support for other people's stuff.

New Guy
Apr 17, 2002, 10:44 AM
With regards to anti-competitive practices, if Apple was to claim that iTunes and iDVD were so embedded in the OS that removing one would essentially break it then I would consider that wrong. But by making a better app Apple is promoting competition.

monkeydo_jb
Apr 17, 2002, 11:03 AM
I'm waiting to jump....

:confused:

I am a network administrator and life long PC user. However, the more and more I hear about OS X the more I want it. I dispise WIntel and don't know why I've just started moving away from windoze by learning RedHat Linux. I am looking hard for a laptop and have narrowed it down to a TiBook. You guys are experts and I was wondering how easy it is to switch to the (dark or light, whatever) side? Also, are Macs really that much better or just something different? Please gimme some input.

Oh yeah, I am going to wait on a TiBook till the next revision, anyway.

mcrain
Apr 17, 2002, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by monkeydo_jb
I'm waiting to jump....
I am a network administrator and life long PC user. However, the more and more I hear about OS X the more I want it. I dispise WIntel and don't know why I've just started moving away from windoze by learning RedHat Linux. I am looking hard for a laptop and have narrowed it down to a TiBook. You guys are experts and I was wondering how easy it is to switch to the (dark or light, whatever) side? Also, are Macs really that much better or just something different? Please gimme some input.

Oh yeah, I am going to wait on a TiBook till the next revision, anyway.

I'm waiting to switch also, so I have very minimal experience with OSX, but every time I've used it, I've found nearly everything to be easy. Some stuff is a little weird, or hard to find (if you've never used it before), but for the most part, I was up to speed after a very short period of time.

I anticpate very little "new user" headaches with the mac when I get it. (I'm also waiting for the new Tibook.)

As for better or just different, I'll let the experts reply.

gopher
Apr 17, 2002, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by monkeydo_jb
I'm waiting to jump....

:confused:

I am a network administrator and life long PC user. However, the more and more I hear about OS X the more I want it. I dispise WIntel and don't know why I've just started moving away from windoze by learning RedHat Linux. I am looking hard for a laptop and have narrowed it down to a TiBook. You guys are experts and I was wondering how easy it is to switch to the (dark or light, whatever) side? Also, are Macs really that much better or just something different? Please gimme some input.

Oh yeah, I am going to wait on a TiBook till the next revision, anyway.

Switching is very easy. Remember Microsoft copied a lot of Apple's operating system and GUI (Graphical User Interface) design to make their operating system resembling Apple's because they realized a GUI is much easier for most computer users to use. What you'll find that is amazing with Mac OS X, is that the network ports are closed unless you setup a root account, which is a good thing as it prevents hackers from entering your system, and yet it uses NetBSD networking for ethernet based networking. Mac OS X is a true multithreaded Unix operating system allowing it to run many applications concurrently assuming your RAM is at least 192MB, and your hard disk free space is at least 2 GB free. If you have that, you should be in good shape. The thing that will impress you most is that most peripherals as long as they support Mac OS X, will simply plug and play. At worse you have to install a driver, but then it sees the device without rebooting. You have desktop CD burning, meaning a blank CD appears on the desktop and you just drag the files you want to burn to that CD. When you want to burn those files, you just select the eject menuitem.

For more info on available Mac OS X resources, visit http://www.macmaps.com/macx.html and of course http://www.apple.com/macosx