Still no Blu-Ray/HD-DVD playback in Leopard

With the arrival of Leopard, is anybody as annoyed as I am that there's still no support for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray in DVD Player? I picked up one of the new LG combo drives for $299 and sadly Leopard won't play either new format from it (despite the HD tab in the prefs). Boot Camp into Vista, use AnyDVD HD (because the card in the Mac Pro isn't HDCP compliant) and the copy of PowerDVD that comes with the drive, I can play both.

I have to rant -- for the platform that's supposed to be the best for authoring both formats, why the hell is there still no support for playback of either? Why is it that the Macintosh, media maven that it is, is completely silent in this area, while the PC goes along happily playing both? Boo, Apple. You've really dropped the ball on this one IMO, and conspicuously considering (a) Apple's media-centric message and (b) Apple's push into the living room. The end result is I've got this media powerhouse Mac Pro that can author HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies but can't play them. Does Apple really want to be behind Windows in this bleeding edge video area?

I must say this is the drawback of suckling from Apple's teet -- at least in the PC world you have InterVideo and Cyberlink fighting to top each other. Here we'll get Blu-Ray/HD-DVD support when Apple feels like it, which may be never.

Can someone tell me if Apple ever plans to support them? Or do we have to wait for 10.6?

sal said:

in order for HDVD or bluray to come to the apple platform, apple must bend over backwards for the media companies to allow them to do that. This includes a very large variety of implementations into the OS to allow playback. HDVD and bluray have very strict copy protections schemes, it's not as easy as it seems.

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As far as I know, they are fine with analog (VGA) connections, and also fine with internal displays (macbooks, iMacs). Really that only leaves the minis and Mac Pros. On that front, they are allowed VGA out and the digital requires HDCP monitor and video card, which I would expect to be implemented by the video card manufacturer in hardware, not in software by Apple (I may be wrong on that). Does Apple not properly drive HDCP displays right now?

Indeed maybe they're waiting for.... something? I know Lenovo had announced Blu-Ray drives for the Thinkpad T61 around 3-6 months ago and pulled them because they haven't been slimmed down enough for the form factor. That doesn't stop them on the Mac Pro and arguably the Mini.

psonice said:

Personally I'm not surprised there's no support yet. A few reasons NOT to implement it:

- there's a format war going on, supporting one or the other would put apple in a bad place if the other won. Supporting both would be a lot of extra work.

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There's also a format war going on in the Intel platform, when are you switching to the clear winner, Windows? 😉 Apple already chose sides over a year ago (Blu-Ray). Also doesn't explain why they are supporting AUTHORING of both but not playback. If they're so afraid of it, why would they create authoring tools?

Further, I've been monkeying around with both formats for around a year, they are 95% identical twins once you get past the physical disc format. Same codecs for both formats on audio and video (MPEG-2, H.264, VC1), that's the majority of the software problem. Really they only differ in a few slight ways: Blu-Ray adds another layer of encryption on top of AACS, and they use two different systems for menu interactivity. Other than that they are twins. Which helps underscore how ludicrous this format war is in the first place -- it's not like they are two radically different products.

psonice said:

- both formats are a LONG way from popular so far. The number of osx users interested in playing these disks on a computer must be tiny, and I doubt it would pay off.

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One could say Macs are a long way from popular 😉 Both HD formats are actually doing better than DVD did at this point in its life cycle. Both formats have also been on the market for something like 18 months. Hardly scary new tech at this point.

Are you saying OSX users aren't interested in high definition video? Really? Do you want to rethink that? And since when is Apple about making the safe choice and shying away from cutting edge technology?

psonice said:

- Most macs won't support HDCP, so the number of people who could actually use it will be even smaller.

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Well they'd be limited over digital connections if that's the case. And honestly, HDCP has been a known quantity for several years -- try to find a HDMI/DVI monitor on the market in the last 3 years that doesn't support HDCP. Plus like I said as far as I know this is a hardware function for the video card to handle, and nVidia and ATI are well aware of HDCP.

Not to mention, the bulk of Macs sold have internal displays -- Macbook, iMac -- so it isn't even an issue for I'm guessing 80% of the Macs sold.

psonice said:

- A lot of people expect streaming HD through the internet to be the real winner rather than a disk. I guess that will be more viable in a couple of years when net speeds are faster in more places.

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Yes, yes, that's all nice but useless. I can download HD movies today for my XBox 360 via XBox Live. But I don't do it, because I still like to OWN my movies on disc and disc guarantees higher quality. Same reason I don't buy songs on iTunes -- I want a hard copy original in high quality.

psonice said:

Note that apple are heavily involved with the itunes store.

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Right, the iTunes store, which doesn't offer any (Hollywood) HD content or movie rentals... Even Microsloth offers HD movie rentals already on XBox live, today.

More viable in a couple of years? Since when is Apple about waiting a couple of years for innovative new technology? My iPhone certainly doesn't represent this conservative philosophy.

Here's to the ones who play it safe, the accountants, the librarians...

psonice said:

I guess that apple will support one or the other (or both if neither wins) in a year or so, probably with a dvd player update (which they could well charge for).

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The problem is that's exactly what people were saying a year or so ago. Wait for Leopard. Well I did wait for Leopard, it's here, and it can't play HD discs. Thus my post asking, "WTF?" 🙂

psonice said:

For now, I wouldn't buy either as I definitely don't want to buy films that I might have to replace with another format in 12 months. For backup on the other hand, blu-ray looks good if you need lots of space.

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There won't be another format in 12 months. It will be one of these two, or nothing.

And as good as DVD has been, I stopped buying them because I don't want inferior quality when 1080p source material is out there. The only exceptions would be things that I've already started collecting, like Simpsons season box sets, or that for some reason won't come out on HD.

Anyway, I guess you missed a subtle hint in my post -- I just got the LG combo drive that reads both formats.



Buy Me

See, if you make a Home Theater PC with this drive, the format war doesn't matter anymore -- with one drive and one piece of software, you can play both. Just not on a Mac. I'm sensing a satirical "I'm a Mac; I'm a PC" ad brewing in my head. I share Adamzx3's sentiments -- it's embarassing that the king of media Mac is behind Windows in this area.

It also doesn't explain the HD tab in DVD Player.