Apple Expo Paris Coverage

[MacRumors]

Apple Expo coverage (http://www.macrumors.com/ae2003.html) live transcript.

New PowerBooks and Bluetooth Keyboard and Mouse released.

Live feed possible by the kind offer from Joern and Klaus from Mac-TV.de (http://www.Mac-TV.de) - Klaus providing us with English -> German -> English translations of their Keynote feed the entire way.

Special thanks to timmi (http://home.subnet.at/timmi for trying to get us the satellite feed and iChat AV feed. Sadly, despite rumors, there was no public satellite feed available. :)

[appeLappe]

Is this good? I can't really tell...:confused: :confused:

[woodsey]

Not impressed at all!

[djohan]

Where is the g5 powerbook?! =)

[MontanaMacster]

apple.com is updated
and the store is up

[kristianm]

No iTunes music for europe, no panther, no iTunes windows. This could have been better. Still, I am thinking of buying one of those powerbooks.

[nodmonkey]

and tell us all about those new iPod accessories you have ready!

Oh, and take the Applestore down for a while too, while you're at it; the iPod accessories aren't there yet.

[Hattig]

Given the limitations of the G4 in terms of clock speed, the new PowerBooks look like quite good. The 512KB of L2 cache should aid performance a lot as well.

I'm sure that someone will bemoan the lack of a G5 PowerBook, but that was always just a dream ... maybe early next year...

Shame that the 12" doesn't have a widescreen display (e.g., 1280x768 or thereabouts) instead of 1024x768 (as far as I can tell). Also, does it remain thicker than the 15.2" and the 17"?

[ryme4reson]

What a waste of time....

[WannabeSQ]

Not really impressed, but it looks as if Apple finally got the 12" right, same cache as other models, higher ram capacity, DVI, fairly good video, etc. Nothing breathtaking, but it should ease decisions between 12" iBook and pBook.

Also, the 12" pbook page still says it is "smaller than the iBook" so i doubt there will be any significant changes to the iBook short of speed bumps, and maybe AE and USB2/bluetooth.

[vollspacken]

I think that's o.k...

could have been more, but maybe steve did not want all announcements out at once.


vSpacken

[nilepoc]

Now, to sell my iMac and my iBook, to get a new 12" powerbook. Any guesses what the student prices will be?

[sjonni]

Finally the 15 inch I can buy :D :D And the price is ok as well.:p

[esheep2001]

Too little, too late and no thought for the poor saps (like me) who are hanging in limbo waiting for dual G5's.

And the single button mouse! Yeah, like that's gonna sell well! Expect to see those as standard equipment on emacs soon. Keyboard? Well I might think about that but the loss of the USB ports on the desktop may negate the wireless capability.

Any more than just a speed bump for the 12"? FW800? USB2? DVI? Anything even slightly cutting edge?

Overall, about what I expected on the hardware side, suprisingly little on the software side.

e.

[macjohnmcc]

I'm so happy there are new 15" PB and a faster 12" PB with cache. Not because I want one but because I'm tired of every single rumor thread turning into a whine festival concerning the outdated product line.

But I am totally surprised that Panther didn't get a more concrete release time frame.

[iGav]

Well done arn on the coverage... ;) you had that well covered today!!

the 15" looks cool, shame about the 1.25 max though, that's abit dissapointing.... I'm thinking this might be the last G4 PowerBook revision though... Shame they don't have 128MB graphics options as well... but all in all, the 15" looks cool.... 2GB limit very good though!

I'm still abit puzzled why Apple don't offer the keyboard and mouse in silver to go with the pro range, I bought a white Apple mouse last week and it really doesn't go at all with the PowerBook....

I'm surprised by the battery run time as well... I didn't think they'd last that long, most impressed there!!

Overall, not bad for a Tuesday... heh-heh!! ;) :D

[Phatpat]

Where did lvl 3 cache go? and what's this about 7457? Is bus speed up'ed? Can't tell from apple.com

[Gymnut]

Well guess I'm keeping my wireless M$ Intellimouse. Thing has 4 buttons plus a scroll wheel. Go figure.

[Stike]

All in all, the rumor mongering community is disappointed by the keynote! Steve owes us one!!

The updates are nothing special, but not toooo bad... BUT the price is a shame.
...and... ONE mouse button? Again? Come on... this is not the stone age!

[Analog Kid]

Not bad, all told... PBs arrived in about the form we expected.

What's with lithium batteries in the mouse though?!

[mvc]

Dang - gotta change my sig now!

[rdowns]

So I get up for work and decide to peek on what Apple announced before anything else.

PowerBooks- yawn, pretty much expected, Nice that they're using the 7457s. Immediate availability is cool.

Panther- no October shipping announcement, very pissed. Still by end of year.

Wireless stuff- underwhelming, still a one button mouse.

All in all, yawn




(edit) typos

[The Ancients]

...deflated. I guess the G5 is a hard act to follow. Ah well, I guess I'll wait until next year to order a new laptop.

[Hattig]

Originally posted by esheep2001
And the single button mouse! Yeah, like that's gonna sell well! Expect to see those as standard equipment on emacs soon. Keyboard? Well I might think about that but the loss of the USB ports on the desktop may negate the wireless capability.

wireless mice are useful ... wireless keyboards less so.

Any more than just a speed bump for the 12"? FW800? USB2? DVI? Anything even slightly cutting edge?

Did you bother to read the notes? for example: "Up to 2GB DDR RAM 333MHz. Radeon Mobility, DVI, FW800, 2 USB, Airport Extreme" on the 1.25GHz 15.2" PowerBook. The 17" is at 1.33GHz. Sheesh.

[gotohamish]

It says the original BT USB adapter sold thru apple isn't supported.

what a gip!

and only one button option too.

[uberman42]

not too shabby - expected. What's this one button mouse- ARRRRGH! Oh well - can't wait till January and new systems...

[phieldsie]

Anyone think the Expo schedule for Saturday might be when the iPod accessories etc are announced ?


Saturday, September 20 2003
10.30am - 11.30am Event: Photo
12.00pm - 1.00pm Event: Video/Movie
1.30pm - 2.30pm Event: Music
3.00pm - 4.00pm Can the multimedia help to better lear the basics?


When you look for more information, it says something like 'more information to follow' on the 3 'events' - everything else has details.

[redAPPLE]

uhm... ok... thanks to all the people who made it all work.

[RandomDeadHead]

Is it just me or are these updated kind of dissapointing.

Expensive new mouse and keyboard, but only one button? WTF. Dropped the ball on that one ay Steve.


At least the 15 inch Pbook got the backlight keyboard, cant wait to see the beasty in action!

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by esheep2001
And the single button mouse! Yeah, like that's gonna sell well! Expect to see those as standard equipment on emacs soon. Keyboard? Well I might think about that but the loss of the USB ports on the desktop may negate the wireless capability.

Yeah, the BT peripherals are not for everyone... BT can't handle the throughput of USB.

It might make sense as a PB keyboard though anything that reduces the number of cables I have to plug in when I get to work... Display and power is about the minimum you can get without a dock.

Which reminds me-- why doesn't Apple make a dock? I know there's that Bookenz thing, but I'd be happier with an Apple design-- connectors are too fragile to really trust a third party.

[Plutoniq]

Sleep now rumor junkies, Steve Clause has brought u your expo wishlist. Can't complain 'bout them specs, don't think anyone was really asking for more. Maybe Apple designers lure in these forums for product development :)

So, what 'bout them damn Ibooks? November seems to have been the month in previous years. IBM could surely push ahead 750GX development a month. What I'm curious about with he 750GX, many CompactPCI manufactures already list products utilizing the PowerPC 750GX;

http://www.momenco.com/products/puma-cgx.html

http://www.otisolutions.com/powerpc.html

What I don't understand is that these companies already seem to be selling these units, utilizing a chip that IBM states won't go into production until December 2003. Surely they wouldn't be samples?

Anyways,

whatever

p'z

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by Hattig
wireless mice are useful ... wireless keyboards less so.



Did you bother to read the notes? for example: "Up to 2GB DDR RAM 333MHz. Radeon Mobility, DVI, FW800, 2 USB, Airport Extreme" on the 1.25GHz 15.2" PowerBook. The 17" is at 1.33GHz. Sheesh.


Did you read his post? He asked about the 12"

Yes, the 12" now has mini-DVI and USB2, and a speed bump. But no FW800 yet.

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by Hattig
wireless mice are useful ... wireless keyboards less so.



Did you bother to read the notes? for example: "Up to 2GB DDR RAM 333MHz. Radeon Mobility, DVI, FW800, 2 USB, Airport Extreme" on the 1.25GHz 15.2" PowerBook. The 17" is at 1.33GHz. Sheesh.

Yes I did. I was asking about the 12" Did you not bother to read my question? Sheesh.

[hvfsl]

I think Apple should have put 1.33Ghz G4s in the 17in and 15in PBs. I expect they only put the 1.33Ghz in the 17in to make it look faster and to differentiate it from the 15in. I would like to get a 15in, not a 17in and would have liked to have as fast a cpu as possible in it.

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by gotohamish
It says the original BT USB adapter sold thru apple isn't supported.


Seriously? Wow, someone had a hard decision to make...

[Makosuke]

Originally posted by nilepoc
Now, to sell my iMac and my iBook, to get a new 12" powerbook. Any guesses what the student prices will be?
Go to the Apple Edu store and find out; $200 below retail for the 12" and low-end 15", $300 off for the two high end models.

Nothing shocking, but hey, I'm not complaining. The powerbooks are just a bit better than I was expecting, so I've got one friend who'll be buying immediately, and they're enough to at least hold people through to G5 models whenever that happens.

As for the Panther ship date, Steve didn't say it won't make October--he's just not committing in case something goes wrong at the last minute. If we're lucky, we'll see it in a month or so. If we're not, Steve won't have egg on his face for saying so.

Too bad about no Euro-iTMS, but I can't really say I'm shocked about that with how much of a fit the labels have been throwing recently.

[ElGreco]

Just a short yuppiyeah for not having to keep up with the weekly PowerBook Rumors anymore. I will go get my new 15" PowerBook, now!

ElGreco

P.S.: I am anxiously awaiting the G5 PB Rumors... :-)

[Daveman Deluxe]

Originally posted by gotohamish
It says the original BT USB adapter sold thru apple isn't supported.

what a gip!

and only one button option too.

I'm guessing that the original BT module doesn't support 128-bit encryption.

The keynote wasn't too bad. Remember, this is Apple Expo in Paris, not WWDC or Macworld Expo SF. I think we did pretty all right. Would have liked to see a Panther announcement, but I've got no beef with waiting.

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by gotohamish
Did you read his post? He asked about the 12"

Yes, the 12" now has mini-DVI and USB2, and a speed bump. But no FW800 yet.

Thanks gotohamish (love the handle!). I've been trying to get on the store but it's choka at th moment.

A couple of nice additions, DVI especially, any idea if it's mirror only or dual screen capable? Shame about the FW800 but I can live with that.

e.

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by esheep2001
Yes I did. I was asking about the 12" Did you not bother to read my question? Sheesh.

I think I already corrected him for you! :D What a team!

[simX]

To all those who thought there was going to be a G5 PowerBook, I have one thing to say:

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Thank you.

(To all those who are "disappointed" at the new PowerBooks, I have three things to say to you: get a life. :rolleyes: )

Heeheehee. :D

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by esheep2001
Thanks gotohamish (love the handle!). I've been trying to get on the store but it's choka at th moment.

A couple of nice additions, DVI especially, any idea if it's mirror only or dual screen capable? Shame about the FW800 but I can live with that.

e.

I expect dual screen - it's a pro laptop, so a pro feature. Thus further distinction from the iBook.

[pstoehr]

Originally posted by hvfsl
I think Apple should have put 1.33Ghz G4s in the 17in and 15in PBs. I expect they only put the 1.33Ghz in the 17in to make it look faster and to differentiate it from the 15in. I would like to get a 15in, not a 17in and would have liked to have as fast a cpu as possible in it.
Do you really think that you can feel the difference between 1.25GHz and 1.33GHz in real-life applications.
From my point of view there is no real difference ...

Greetings
Peter

[MikeH]

Single button mouse! No scroll wheel! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD - NOOOOO!!!!!

Well the presentation was pretty much what I'd expected, but disappointed not to hear of iTunes for Europe or the PC. Single button mouse REALLY irritates*. Laptops looked decent enough and should at least knock G5 laptop rumors on the head for a month or two.

(*Spent part of yesterday using someone else's Mac with an Apple mouse - spent the whole time subconsciously trying to use the scroll wheel...)

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by Daveman Deluxe
I'm guessing that the original BT module doesn't support 128-bit encryption.


I think the encryption is probably link-layer, and probably driven by the OS stack. More likely the adaptive hopping which would be phy-layer and in the module itself.

The original module must just blind hop?

Not sure why that is so critical for something like a kb and mouse...

[Hattig]

Originally posted by esheep2001
Yes I did. I was asking about the 12" Did you not bother to read my question? Sheesh.
Yeah, I read your question, it must have been worded funny 'cos I read it to mean "is all that happened today a speed bump on the 12"" instead of "What else has changed on the 12" apart from the speed bump"

anyway, the specs have been on apple's site since the keynote finished, so no excuse for not looking them up.

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by pstoehr
Do you really think that you can feel the difference between 1.25GHz and 1.33GHz in real-life applications.
From my point of view there is no real difference

No difference?! No difference?! That's 80MHz!!!

Oh, you said no real difference... Yeah, I agree.
;)

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by Hattig
anyway, the specs have been on apple's site since the keynote finished, so no excuse for not looking them up.

Yep, I can get there now.

Thanks.

e.

[fpnc]

This was exactly as I predicted and posted here about six weeks ago (MPC7457, 1.25 and/or 1.33GHz, ATI 9600, intro at Paris Expo). I also noted then that Apple might remove the L3 cache, which they did. Frankly, sometimes I even amaze myself ;-)

Don't know how much the removal of the L3 will affect performance. For the 12" PowerBook posters, the correct observation is that they removed the L3 cache from the 15" and 17", not that they added a cache to the 12" (the 12" always had an L2 cache, although the MPC7457 doubled the size of same).

Also looks like the new 15" got heavier and slightly thicker (although not by much).

Overall, a nice upgrade but not insanely great.

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by pstoehr
Do you really think that you can feel the difference between 1.25GHz and 1.33GHz in real-life applications.
From my point of view there is no real difference

More seriously, I think they probably had a little headroom left in their power budget on the 17" and just pushed the CPU until they used it up...

Not bad.

[Hattig]

Originally posted by fpnc
This was exactly as I predicted and posted here about six weeks ago (MPC7457, 1.25 and/or 1.33GHz, ATI 9600, intro at Paris Expo). I also noted then that Apple might remove the L3 cache, which they did. Frankly, sometimes I even amaze myself ;-)

lol :)

Yeah, but if there is no L3 cache, then why not use the MPC7447 instead of the 7457? (the difference being that the latter offers an L3 cache interface and the former doesn't)...

I expect that if Motorola haven't made many of the former chips, then when they do, Apple will migrate to using them.

Hopefully the double size full-speed L2 cache on the new processors will make up for the very large, but slower, L3 cache on the old systems.

[Daveman Deluxe]

Originally posted by Analog Kid
I think the encryption is probably link-layer, and probably driven by the OS stack. More likely the adaptive hopping which would be phy-layer and in the module itself.

The original module must just blind hop?

Not sure why that is so critical for something like a kb and mouse...

128-bit encryption makes it harder for signals to get mixed up when in a lab situation with lots of keyboards. It also prevents people from getting your keystrokes which may contain your credit card number (yeah, that's a long shot, but again, nice for labs).

[oldwatery]

Overall just what most of us expected and less than most of us hoped for!
One button BT mouse and standard style BT keyboards are most disappointing. Also no new iPod gear or features (x track fading, photos, recording etc). Any chance of that happening tomorrow?
Powerbook upgrades are OK and the prices seem fair.
Oh well......I'll be sticking with the trusty Ti 667 for a while longer.
Bed time now......:o

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by oldwatery
Overall just what most of us expected and less than most of us hoped for!
One button BT mouse and standard style BT keyboards are most disappointing. Also no new iPod gear or features (x track fading, photos, recording etc). Any chance of that happening tomorrow?
Powerbook upgrades are OK and the prices seem fair.
Oh well......I'll be sticking with the trusty Ti 667 for a while longer.
Bed time now......:o

A friend of mine in NYC has a good friend that worked with DFO (producers/DJs/The Rapture/APT club etc) and evidently they've been working with Apple on the DJ features for the forthcoming iPod.

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by gotohamish
A friend of mine in NYC has a good friend that worked with DFO (producers/DJs/The Rapture/APT club etc) and evidently they've been working with Apple on the DJ features for the forthcoming iPod.

Frankly, given that iPods now support USB they should really add a camera download facility. Rather than push a new line further into a small niche, this would open up a new client area and expand sales. Not only that but it would prompt some of us old FW only 5GB owners to finally upgrade :-)

The DJ stuff is a great toy but I doubt it's really gonna change the sales that much.

e.

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by esheep2001
Frankly, given that iPods now support USB they should really add a camera download facility. Rather than push a new line further into a small niche, this would open up a new client area and expand sales. Not only that but it would prompt some of us old FW only 5GB owners to finally upgrade :-)

The DJ stuff is a great toy but I doubt it's really gonna change the sales that much.

e.

I agree on both counts. The camera facility would be The Best™

The DJ feature will be cool. I'm all for new cool features!

h

[Freg3000]

I woke up half an hour earlier for this? I am not a morning person! :)

I believe the PowerBooks are very nice, basically the most we could expect from G4. Good job there.

The Wireless Keyboard and Mouse. ERRRRRR. Try again. One button? Please.

And that is it right? I mean, I wasn't expecting huge hardware announcements, but I was expecting small updates on the progress of the iTMS for Windows and the international markets, as well as Panther. Panther got the same "before the end of the year" and the iTMS didn't get anything.

I did not hype myself up for this expo, yet I leave disappointed.

[Stella]

I really don't understand apple's obsession with the One Button Mouse.

Its useless, worse still, no scroller.

Good too see all Pro Laptops are now over 1Ghz however.

At last -> no more "15' Laptop tomorrow" rumours!

After all the hype - this keynote was boring.

[QuiteSure]

Originally posted by Stella


At last -> no more "15' Laptop tomorrow" rumours!

After all the hype - this keynote was boring.

I had been looking forward to --

iSync 1.2
Panther ship date
iTMS for Windows (or at least Europe!)

This was ok, but only ok.

Next stop: MWSF!

[GrannySmith_G5]

Man, I hope MWSF is going to be a HUGE show.

[redAPPLE]

Originally posted by Daveman Deluxe
128-bit encryption makes it harder for signals to get mixed up when in a lab situation with lots of keyboards. It also prevents people from getting your keystrokes which may contain your credit card number (yeah, that's a long shot, but again, nice for labs).

yeah nice for labs... until they get stolen ;)

[edenwaith]

Wow! Apple has delivered a bunch of new products...and now their stock will fall. Go figure. One would think that when a company comes out with new products that it might go UP instead.

But that middle-of-the-line 15" PB looks pretty good...just about perfect for me. No Superdrive, good speed, nice video-out ports, USB 2 and FW 400/800. If I was in the market for a new laptop, that PB would be just right for me.

Now we just need the iBooks to have a major update.

[_The_Man_]

Personally I‘m dissapointed, maybe I got too hyped up because of all the rumors. I hope Panther and iTMS Europe come real soon, but I can‘t think of an event where Steve would hold a keynote. MWSF is in January so too late for all the by the end of the year announcments. :confused:

[aarond12]

It's been so freakin' long since the Powerbook 15" was updated that I don't even care if it's "only" 1.25GHz. I put my order in today! At least they're using ATI graphics on the higher-end Powerbooks. If they used nVidia, I would've gotten one of the older Powerbooks.

[crees!]

Any word about a rebroadcasted stream on the Apple site?

[GroundLoop]

I am surprised that the American hating Mac community isn't all up in arms about ITMS. Especially since it will not be available at all this year.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/030916/tech_apple_1.html

Hickman

[Machead III]

Hmm, well, not the most impressive expo in the world but meh, Apples attendance at Paris consists primarily of leftovers apparently sufficient for us Europeans.

[soosy]

no new panther features. :(

[jZilla]

Originally posted by Machead III
Hmm, well, not the most impressive expo in the world but meh, Apples attendance at Paris consists primarily of leftovers apparently sufficient for us Europeans. Powerbooks aside (and forgetting the pointless and over-priced yet very naff looking BT periphs) it was as if Steve thinks us European types have no idea what was said at the last expo.

What a wasted trip by him, and thank heavens I decided not to fly over from London for it after all.

Sherlock continues to be useless for us in Europe, and Windoze users get iTMS before us Euro Mac people.

Don't even get me started on where TF my dual G5 has got to...

[Wonder Boy]

wheres the software? ical, isync, quicktime, something unexpected? give me something! WTF. I am so pissed. apple had blown it again. ipod accesories? negative. two button mouse? negative. anything that would make me go to the apple store today to buy something? not even close.

edit: i forgot something- WHEN THE HELL IS PANTHER COMING???!!!

[oldwatery]

Well I've had time to let it sink in and I am now even more disappointed than I was last night (Hawaii time). I am an Apple shareholder as well as a Mac lover and it amazes me when a company that can bring us the iMac and iPod then follows it up with 2 BT peripherals that are so lame as to defy description. If I was the CEO, heads would roll just for suggesting these products let alone spending thousands of dollars to design and produce this 3 year old technology. Shame on you Steve.
Meanwhile my new (old) 30gig iPod still cannot play consecutive tracks from an album without a pause and still cannot auto fade between tracks as per iTunes! Not to mention the lack of any usefull accessories almost 5 months later and still no Windowz or Euro ITMS. Very sad indeed and a huge opportunity for others to catch up.
The up side is I get to keep my $ in the bank this week!

[Error Type -43]

It just occured to me, and please accept my apologies if this is old news, that if you're trying to find a source to find out what the new Apple releases will be, a good place to start would be someone who works at the retail chains. Case in point, after the Powerbook announcement was made earlier this morning at approx. 2am PST, my school's bookstore was selling them just 7 hours later. That means the retail stores who carry them had to order in advance. So if you know someone who works at one of these places, it seems to me they would be the most reliable source for info, assuming the ordering dept. leaks out the info. Again my apologies if any of you have already figured this out.

Anyhow, I stayed up to catch the live transcript. I was dissapointed at first, but after some thinking realized that these are good deals given what they come with. My school is selling the 15" 1.25ghz model for $1999 and since I've been in the laptop market for a while, I'll be picking one up first thing tomorrow morning.