New PowerBooks - Finally

[milksheikh]

Originally posted by MattG
Well my PB has one of the dreaded white spots on it...I sent it in to Apple on Friday. Hopefully I'll have it back soon. :(

Tell me about this dreaded white spot. I haven't come across any mention of this phenomenon, but may be suffering from it as well.

I've got a spot about the size of a dime (although not perfectly round) approximately centered horizontally and 1/3 of the way vertically from the top of the screen. The spot is "whiter" than the rest of the screen, but is really only perceivable when comparing whites. It can be very distracting... Is this what you had?

What's a good bit of software to use to display test patterns/colors to examine the screen carefully?

[jkeithh]

Originally posted by milksheikh
Tell me about this dreaded white spot. I haven't come across any mention of this phenomenon, but may be suffering from it as well.

I've got a spot about the size of a dime (although not perfectly round) approximately centered horizontally and 1/3 of the way vertically from the top of the screen. The spot is "whiter" than the rest of the screen, but is really only perceivable when comparing whites. It can be very distracting... Is this what you had?

What's a good bit of software to use to display test patterns/colors to examine the screen carefully?

Could that possibly be caused by the clear/white Apple logo that lights up on the tops of the Powerbooks?

[milksheikh]

Originally posted by jkeithh
Could that possibly be caused by the clear/white Apple logo that lights up on the tops of the Powerbooks?

Unfortunately, no. The abberation is located above the logo on the screen (as verified by holding the PowerBook up to a bright lamp and noting where the logo is).

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by milksheikh
Tell me about this dreaded white spot. I haven't come across any mention of this phenomenon, but may be suffering from it as well.

I've got a spot about the size of a dime (although not perfectly round) approximately centered horizontally and 1/3 of the way vertically from the top of the screen. The spot is "whiter" than the rest of the screen, but is really only perceivable when comparing whites. It can be very distracting... Is this what you had?

What's a good bit of software to use to display test patterns/colors to examine the screen carefully?

The white spots are problems with the finish on the Aluminum casing.

[nickfit]

I have the same white spots. It looks like a cluster of bright white spots, only noticable when the screen is white or light grey. I am not sure how this can be a funciton of the finish of the aluminum casing. I am thinking of sending it in, but I already did this to get the superdirve replaced, so I really would prefer not to have to do it age. But, at least there is a really fast turn around.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by nickfit
I have the same white spots. It looks like a cluster of bright white spots, only noticable when the screen is white or light grey. I am not sure how this can be a funciton of the finish of the aluminum casing. I am thinking of sending it in, but I already did this to get the superdirve replaced, so I really would prefer not to have to do it age. But, at least there is a really fast turn around.

I would call Apple and complain. Why put up with something that obviously isn't right.

On the previous topic of what the dreaded white spot problem is, it IS, a case finish issue. What you and the previous post are referring to with the bright spot on the screen is an issue I have not heard of before.

[MacBandit]

Well it looks like you aren't the only one with the white spots on the screen issue. Though I could be wrong I am absolutely sure I read about white spots on the case also.

Here's a link to a petition about the white screen spots.

http://www.petitiononline.com/applelcd/petition.html

[killmoms]

Completely off topic, but MacBandit, you've got to shorten that sig. That's the biggest, most annoying thing ever.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Cless
Completely off topic, but MacBandit, you've got to shorten that sig. That's the biggest, most annoying thing ever.

Done. Actually it was far from the biggest here on MacRumors but since you asked I shortened it back up. Next time a please would be nice though. Politeness goes a long ways to making everyone get along here especially now that we're getting so big.

[ObviousTroll]

I've also got two white spots - one in the same place yours is, and one somewhat down and (stage) left of it. They're faint enough not to be a real problem, though, so I was just going to deal with it.

Question: how can the finish of the aluminum shell be the problem?

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by ObviousTroll
I've also got two white spots - one in the same place yours is, and one somewhat down and (stage) left of it. They're faint enough not to be a real problem, though, so I was just going to deal with it.

Question: how can the finish of the aluminum shell be the problem?

I've seen spots on aluminum bike frames and they are usually from chemical stains in production. Maybe I didn't read the article I saw previously about the spots thoroughly enough and it was the screen. In any case it seems this is pretty wide spread. Apple will definitely be getting some flack for this one. Only good news is for those of us who haven't bought yet that means there will be some refurbished models coming soon.

[ObviousTroll]

From my point of view, the "white" (really "lighter") spots aren't even as bad as the fingerprints I often get on my display, so I can't see it as a really big deal.

Particularly since if they repair it I could easily get a display with a couple of dead pixels. I think I'd rather have the light spots.

[Phil Of Mac]

I have a huge white spot on the lid of my PowerBook. It even glows when my PowerBook is on. Strangely enough, it's shaped like an Apple logo.

Please don't suggest a fix, I rather like my spot :)

[Batesie1]

gawd darn it all...

it may be that the RAM they gave me is no good afterall... i've crashed hard a handful of times (when using software update and other installer programs) giving me that
- you must reboot by holding down the powerbutton blah blah message in different languages... (first time i've EVER seen that message... scary stuff)

both apple care and I have narrowed it down to possible RAM issues, and will do some more analysis at home... macmall WILL be hearing about this... and then some...

but for now my ethernet connection is gone, can't use most non-proprietary programs, and my settings keep getting reset. sigh.
hope i'm not scaring any of you out there that have placed orders with macmall, but i guess it's just something to keep your eye on...

-jason
ps- this doesn't affect my thoughts on my new powerbook... i still think it rocks! (when it works :))

Originally posted by nickfit
I understand that Macmall would have a $40 fee. It is still a deal. That is, it is still a deal if you don't have to reinstall the chips they they improperly installed. At the very least, I would notify them of the issue. If you call them and tell them what happened, and they then offered something, then that would be a sign of a good company. I certainly don't believe in flying off the handle in response to what in the end was a small issue, but they should be aware of the issue so they at least have the opportunity to try to prevent it from happening to others.

[ozlow]

Well, I ordered my powerbook on the 16th. I recieved it on the 1st of October. I opened the box and there it was, in the middle of the freeking screen.

Called MacMall and they said too bad, so sad. Called Apple and they wanted me to send it in so they could test it.

Finally took it to the Genius Bar in Seattle's U-District and they determined it was 4 dead pixels in a clump. I begged them to fix it. After some convincing they took my powerbook. Now I'll be without one for another 2 weeks. It sucks, but hopefully I'll be dead pixel free.

I'll keep you updated.

[zync]

Originally posted by TheConvert
My 15 inch AlPB 1.25 is incredible. I'm a Mac User for the rest of my life! I love the screen, OSX, light up keyboard, the size and look of it - I'm hooked. Anyway - I've got 2 questions.

The first is - sometimes when I try to edit my website on the Mac, it ends up putting in weird symbols, like "N"s with the weird accent on the top, and "I"s with accents - why does it do this - and is there anything I can do to fix it?

The 2nd one - I'm a college student and I am looking for a stylish bag for my new laptop. Ideally, I'd like a bag that can hold my laptop, and a few textbooks as well. I'd also LOVE it if the bag had a removable sleeve for just the laptop, so I could just carry that if all I needed was the laptop.

Please respond if you have any suggestions.

I bought the "Vagrant" from Chrome (http://www.chromebags.com/), but you might like "El Ocho" from Timbuk2 (http://www.timbuk2.com/) because I believe it holds more though I think, like the vagrant, you have to buy a sleeve for it but they're usually around 15 dollars. My sleeve even has it's own pockets, and it opens on two sides. The vagrant doesn't hold too much but I'm a studio art major so I only need it to hold a sketchbook, a notebook, and my laptop in the main compartment. The small pocket is perfect for my iPod and its headphones and my Canon S400 ELPH. I also put my wacom tablet in it and all my necessary wires and stuff in out-of-the-way pockets. It has plenty of room for pens, pencils, and the like as well....the vagrant is very handy for organization, and it has a mesh pocket on the side to hold my old ass phone. I have a nice new camera, slightly older iPod, and a brand new PowerBook 15" and I still carry a Nokia 5165....what's up with that?

[zync]

Originally posted by MattG
Well my PB has one of the dreaded white spots on it...I sent it in to Apple on Friday. Hopefully I'll have it back soon. :(

edit: oops...hadn't read this far yet before I replied....

But since I'm here now I too have these white spots and I think they're caused by stress on the screen from picking the powerbook up because I tested this by grabbing the screen when it was open the way I would when it was closed. I pushed a little and sure enough the screen distorted in the white spots where I had pushed in....I don't know if I want to go through the hassle of sending my computer in. I have one stuck pixel that isn't even noticible in any color so this problem could also be remedied but if this is a problem with picking up the laptop what good would it be to send it in. My old Dell CPiD has the same problem yet when you cross the areas in it's screen stuff becomes slightly pixelated instead of just a tad bit brighter. The middle of my screen seems dimmer to me sometimes but I think it's just my eyes playing tricks on me in the dark....at any rate I don't think this problem afflicted my computer when I first got it. What do you think I should do? I think I may give Apple a call and see what they'll do....

[milksheikh]

Originally posted by ObviousTroll
From my point of view, the "white" (really "lighter") spots aren't even as bad as the fingerprints I often get on my display, so I can't see it as a really big deal.

Particularly since if they repair it I could easily get a display with a couple of dead pixels. I think I'd rather have the light spots.

Yes, indeed -- that's why I haven't yet done anything about it. Wondering if I can hold out for ~ 11 months, then get it replaced. Probably not worth risking dead pixels.

It's like its a fingerprint, but it's ALWAYS there. I don't expect permanent fingerprints on a $2.5k machine.

[MattG]

<sigh>
I called and they told me they're replacing my screen, however they're all out of them right now. The replacement screen is on backorder.

DAMN IT!

[zync]

Originally posted by MattG
<sigh>
I called and they told me they're replacing my screen, however they're all out of them right now. The replacement screen is on backorder.

DAMN IT!

If you had the white spot problem it appears that a lot of people had problems with them recurring after they've been fixed. I'm telling you guys it has to do with pressure on the lid of the screen....just try it, grab the lid of your computer while it's open and press slightly when your hand is where it normally is when you pick it up....if the spots are where the lcd distorts from being pressed that's what's causing the problem...

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by zync
If you had the white spot problem it appears that a lot of people had problems with them recurring after they've been fixed. I'm telling you guys it has to do with pressure on the lid of the screen....just try it, grab the lid of your computer while it's open and press slightly when your hand is where it normally is when you pick it up....if the spots are where the lcd distorts from being pressed that's what's causing the problem...

If that's the case then it shouldn't be permanent and should fade within an hour or two.

[TheFallGuy]

Well, I've been having heat issues with my 15" AlPB. I think I've figured it out. I've been running it off the power cord. And when I do that it gets really freakin' hot. And I don't do very much on it. Web surfin', word processing, maybe iTunes. But nothing hard core.

Right now I'm on the battery alone and doing the same thing and it is really cool.

First off, is this normal?

Is there anyway I can adjust the temperature level on the fans so they kick on at a lower temp? Even with it plugged in?

I think I'm going to call AppleCare and see what they can tell me. But any advice from ya'll would be great.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by TheFallGuy
Well, I've been having heat issues with my 15" AlPB. I think I've figured it out. I've been running it off the power cord. And when I do that it gets really freakin' hot. And I don't do very much on it. Web surfin', word processing, maybe iTunes. But nothing hard core.

Right now I'm on the battery alone and doing the same thing and it is really cool.

First off, is this normal?

Is there anyway I can adjust the temperature level on the fans so they kick on at a lower temp? Even with it plugged in?

I think I'm going to call AppleCare and see what they can tell me. But any advice from ya'll would be great.

Do you know about speed stepping? When you are on battery power the PowerBook steps the processor back to the minimum needed speed to save power. When you plug your PowerBook in it doesn't speed step it gives all processes maximum speed all the time just like a normal desktop does (not including G5s).

I would still speak to Apple though. The palm rest in my opinion should never get uncomfortably warm.

[ObviousTroll]

Originally posted by TheFallGuy
Well, I've been having heat issues with my 15" AlPB. I think I've figured it out. I've been running it off the power cord. And when I do that it gets really freakin' hot. And I don't do very much on it. Web surfin', word processing, maybe iTunes. But nothing hard core.

When my powerbook is running heavy graphics (Diablo II, for example) it gets very hot fairly fast. When I'm not running graphics intensive stuff, it stays cool. Are you running an OpenGL visual effect with iTunes?

[rodnarms]

I remember feeling excitement at what else Jobs would reveal in Paris besides Powerbooks. I could have cared less about them.

When they were released I thought -sweet - but then again did not care to ever think about purchasing one.

That was before I discovered the wonders of educational discount. Now I have on order a 15 inch. I am excited about getting one.

I ordered on October 14 and the sales rep said it will ship on the 4th of November! How is that for lead time? My question is since I will get it a week after Panther is released, do you think it will be pre-installed?

[dochypno]

their finally in-stock at bestbuy. got my 12" at the chelsea (NYC) branch. service was terrible...but i can't complain when i was using my $500 gift card (the only reason why i got the pb there). this thing is wicked!

[zync]

Originally posted by MacBandit
If that's the case then it shouldn't be permanent and should fade within an hour or two.

Yes but we're not talking about only once or twice, we're talking a recurring action and much more pressure than just pressing on the screen.

[TheFallGuy]

I talked to the people at apple and they helped me out a ton. (This is my first mac --15" AlPB) They had me go into the energy savings option, and adjust the processor speed to automatic instead of highest possible. This has brought the temperature considerably! I have it plugged in now and everything is quite comfortable and cozy.

Thanks for the comments and advice. It wasn't the palm rests getting hot, those stayed cooler than the bottom near the hinge of the screen. That's where I get the heat issues. I haven't been using the visual part of the iTunes, just listening to it while working on other stuff. Interesting, but I'll check that out too.

They mentioned that the fans on this baby (yes I'm using my PB for this) are controlled by a temperature gauge inside the machine and not really controlled by the OS. It would be nice to be able to adjust that by using a script or something. Oh well.

Maybe I'll have to switch it back to highest possible once we get into winter here. :D Keep myself warm! :D :p

[ozlow]

Originally posted by ozlow
Well, I ordered my powerbook on the 16th. I recieved it on the 1st of October. I opened the box and there it was, in the middle of the freeking screen.

Called MacMall and they said too bad, so sad. Called Apple and they wanted me to send it in so they could test it.

Finally took it to the Genius Bar in Seattle's U-District and they determined it was 4 dead pixels in a clump. I begged them to fix it. After some convincing they took my powerbook. Now I'll be without one for another 2 weeks. It sucks, but hopefully I'll be dead pixel free.

I'll keep you updated.

Well, Apple store U-Village just called. After waiting 5 days for the pixel fix I get this call... "Hi, this is the Apple store, you're powerbook is back." I said "did you turn it on and see if it was fixed?" Reply..."They didn't fix it. They said it was only a clump of 2 pixels, not 4 Apple has a strick policy."

So...

Spoke to their Manager. The manager said. "If you want you can return it here, pay the 170.00 restock fee and I will give you a new powerbook in the box. I can't guaranty it won't have a dead pixel, but I can do that for you."

I wouldn't be so made, if....

1. The "genus" at the bar told me it would be fixed.
2. The Apple Tech told me to bring it to the bar and they would know if Apple would fix it or not.
3. The dead pixels, weren't in the freeking middle of the screen.

Is two dead pixels worth $170.00?

All I can say is &$(#*@!

-oz

[MattG]

Originally posted by ozlow
Well, Apple store U-Village just called. After waiting 5 days for the pixel fix I get this call... "Hi, this is the Apple store, you're powerbook is back." I said "did you turn it on and see if it was fixed?" Reply..."They didn't fix it. They said it was only a clump of 2 pixels, not 4 Apple has a strick policy."

So...

Spoke to their Manager. The manager said. "If you want you can return it here, pay the 170.00 restock fee and I will give you a new powerbook in the box. I can't guaranty it won't have a dead pixel, but I can do that for you."

I wouldn't be so made, if....

1. The "genus" at the bar told me it would be fixed.
2. The Apple Tech told me to bring it to the bar and they would know if Apple would fix it or not.
3. The dead pixels, weren't in the freeking middle of the screen.

Is two dead pixels worth $170.00?

All I can say is &$(#*@!

-oz

If he lets you look at it before you actually purchase it, then maybe. Otherwise, no...if you're going to be buying it 'blind', then I'd say $170 is not worth it.

On another note, at least you can go and pick yours up!! Mine's still at the repair facility, waiting for a backordered screen. :(

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by MattG
If he lets you look at it before you actually purchase it, then maybe. Otherwise, no...if you're going to be buying it 'blind', then I'd say $170 is not worth it.

On another note, at least you can go and pick yours up!! Mine's still at the repair facility, waiting for a backordered screen. :(

I've never heard of them letting you open it up and look at the screen. My best suggestion is to find a 3rd party authorized Apple store and see if you can buy there floor model if it doesn't have any bad pixels that is.

[mxpiazza]

is $170 worth it? that's only for you to decide. if you won't be able to take looking at 2 dead pixels mid-screen, then it's worth it.

[nalfein]

Originally posted by ozlow
Well, Apple store U-Village just called. After waiting 5 days for the pixel fix I get this call... "Hi, this is the Apple store, you're powerbook is back." I said "did you turn it on and see if it was fixed?" Reply..."They didn't fix it. They said it was only a clump of 2 pixels, not 4 Apple has a strick policy."

So...

Spoke to their Manager. The manager said. "If you want you can return it here, pay the 170.00 restock fee and I will give you a new powerbook in the box. I can't guaranty it won't have a dead pixel, but I can do that for you."

I wouldn't be so made, if....

1. The "genus" at the bar told me it would be fixed.
2. The Apple Tech told me to bring it to the bar and they would know if Apple would fix it or not.
3. The dead pixels, weren't in the freeking middle of the screen.

Is two dead pixels worth $170.00?

All I can say is &$(#*@!

-oz

I think apple is not realy fair with you. If the apple guys made mistake and tell you it's 4 pixels and it will be repair i think you are ok to ask him to repair it. I'm not sure but it sounds like verbal contract.

by the way, by checking, how many pixels are bad?

And i always tought if the placement of bad pixel are very important.If 2 or 4 pixels are in the middle of the screen it's very very anoying. you know i have 2 stuck/green pixels in right middle of the screen and i dont give a f... mine are so well place i can't even see them when i check my screen with white background.

[hat]

I've had my 15" AlBook for 2 weeks now and thankfully, no sign of dreaded white spots. However, an issue I haven't seen raised here but is getting increased attention on the Apple forums is the quality and resolution of the screen itself. There seems to be a lack in clarity and sharpness when reading text in black or blue font, highly apparent on white background. A certain fuzziness about the resolution makes it hard on the eyes after a while. Mine certainly suffers from it. Changing the 'font smoothing' setting in General Prefs doesn't seem to help either. A few users have sent their units in for an LCD and cable replacement, though still unsure if it's even a known issue or not?

Anyone here notice this "display resolution not as crisp as you'd expect for a $2600 machine" phenomenon? Is it worth it's own thread?

[killmoms]

I've been running a 17" monitor at 1600 x 1200 for two years now, so anything looks sharp to me. I think it looks great for an LCD. Maybe there's just something wrong with yours? Not trying to be offensive or anything, but I've compared my screen with a TiBook's, and they look the same quality-wise. Mine does have a dreaded white spot, but it's not so horrible that I can't ignore it, and I don't have AppleCare yet. (Gonna get that when I have some money again).

--Cless

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by nalfein
I think apple is not realy fair with you. If the apple guys made mistake and tell you it's 4 pixels and it will be repair i think you are ok to ask him to repair it. I'm not sure but it sounds like verbal contract.

A verbal contract is only worth the paper it's written on.

[MacBandit]

Well my wife ordered a PowerBook on the night of Monday the 17th. Today is Friday the 21st. When she made the order it was a build to order and they said it would ship on or before December 10th. Well it shipped today. Also we just ordered it with the normal shipping and it's coming FedEx instead of Aiborne.


So from everything I have read and been told by Apple people is that the Powerbook problems have been fixed at the factory level so in a sense this is a Rev. B Aluminum 15" Powerbook. I figured that was why the shipping was delayed so much. They still got it out quickly though and they have gone back to FedEx. Sounds like Apple is working the problems out. Every company goes through things like this once and a while trying to cut costs. In the case of Apple though they have enough self respect to realize the results were unacceptable and fix the problem. Now we wait and see if the Powerbook is free of problems or not. I've never had a computer from Apple with a problem and I really don't expect this one to have either but we'll see.

[tomrob]

Thanks to everyone for their postings on this fascinating thread. Have just managed to sell my 12" iBook so am finally taking the leap to a 12" G4 PB next week via The Apple Store.

Apple want *£620 extra* (that's $1100 US) to supply it with the full 1.256Gb RAM. Is there any cheaper route to 1.256Gb or at least 1Gb ? Here in the UK I can't find any 3rd party retailers selling 1Gb PC2100 chips.

Also, is there any reason (other than the superdrive) to buy the more expensive 12" model rather than the base (combo drive) machine ?

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by tomrob
Thanks to everyone for their postings on this fascinating thread. Have just managed to sell my 12" iBook so am finally taking the leap to a 12" G4 PB next week via The Apple Store.

Apple want *£620 extra* (that's $1100 US) to supply it with the full 1.256Gb RAM. Is there any cheaper route to 1.256Gb or at least 1Gb ? Here in the UK I can't find any 3rd party retailers selling 1Gb PC2100 chips.

Also, is there any reason (other than the superdrive) to buy the more expensive 12" model rather than the base (combo drive) machine ?

Ramseeker is my best suggestion finding ram that is certified to work in a Mac with OSX.

Here's a link.

http://www.ramseeker.com/scripts/sortModelDetails.php?modelId=31&sortSize=1gb

or TransIntl.com.

http://www.transintl.com/store/category.cfm?Category=2439&RequestTimeOut=500

[zync]

Originally posted by tomrob
Thanks to everyone for their postings on this fascinating thread. Have just managed to sell my 12" iBook so am finally taking the leap to a 12" G4 PB next week via The Apple Store.

Apple want *£620 extra* (that's $1100 US) to supply it with the full 1.256Gb RAM. Is there any cheaper route to 1.256Gb or at least 1Gb ? Here in the UK I can't find any 3rd party retailers selling 1Gb PC2100 chips.

Also, is there any reason (other than the superdrive) to buy the more expensive 12" model rather than the base (combo drive) machine ?

First off it can never be 1256 MB of RAM...think of this logically.....

1GB = 1024 MB

1256 - 1024 = 232

Especially considering that (I believe) you only have 1 DIMM in the 12" PowerBook...how would you ever get that extra 232 MB?

Now considering a large amount of available DIMMs and much older RAM chips (disregarding types of RAM obviously):

256 MB is obviously too large

128 + 64 + 32 + 8 = 232

In other words you could accomplish this with 5 DIMMs which the PowerBook certainly does not have....

Realize I'm not being mean here it's just that I don't want you to have incorrect information....now if you mean 1 Gig plus a 256 chip then you'd really have 1.280 GB or 1280 MB....in other words either is impossible in the 12"....

edit: BTW we're talking GB, or Gigabytes, not Gb, or Gigabits...

[tomrob]

Nice one Zync

Thanks for the correction about GB not Gb - as a technical know-nothing, it's good to learn this kind of stuff.

As far as the max RAM goes - as a technical know-nothing who didn't want to appear too stupid, I simply copied the amount shown on the Apple Store page into my message - see: Apple Store (http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/9215/wo/Bl5wY1Yc8LR5oA4Cbh/1.3.0.5.19.1.1.25.3.1.1.0?56,11) - figuring they'd be likely to know the correct max amount of RAM their machine would take.

Seems I was wrong. Ah well.

Thankx to Bandit for pointing me at Ramseeker. Looks like we're talking about 400 bucks for a single one gigabyte chip - a big improvement on the Apple price, but still four times the price of 512mb. Is the 256mb the PB 12" comes with soldered on or a removable DIMM ? I mean could an engineer friend drop in 2 x 512mb DIMMs, and thus get me at least 1024mb (being careful about the exact amount here) for just 200 bucks ?

[vrapan]

I am not sure if you can do that or not but even if you can it would void your warrantee on your machine.

[Hugin777]

Originally posted by tomrob
Thankx to Bandit for pointing me at Ramseeker. Looks like we're talking about 400 bucks for a single one gigabyte chip - a big improvement on the Apple price, but still four times the price of 512mb.

Be careful with buying cheap RAM. For 512MB RAM blocks and greater it's impossible to test all combinations (would take a high number of years per chip). So manufacturing needs to be very high quality. And the worst thing is that RAM errors are hard to detect - your computer just acts strange; somtimes. It's very hard to check whether it's the logic board, the software, the RAM or anything else - so I would try to get as high quality RAM as possible.

I'm not saying only buy Apple RAM. Just get the best available.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Hugin777
Be careful with buying cheap RAM. For 512MB RAM blocks and greater it's impossible to test all combinations (would take a high number of years per chip). So manufacturing needs to be very high quality. And the worst thing is that RAM errors are hard to detect - your computer just acts strange; somtimes. It's very hard to check whether it's the logic board, the software, the RAM or anything else - so I would try to get as high quality RAM as possible.

I'm not saying only buy Apple RAM. Just get the best available.

The pages I linked to have Apple compatible guaranteed ram. Also all there ram has a lifetime guarantee and I have never had a problem with any of the companies listed.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by tomrob
..................As far as the max RAM goes - as a technical know-nothing who didn't want to appear too stupid, I simply copied the amount shown on the Apple Store page into my message - see: Apple Store (http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/9215/wo/Bl5wY1Yc8LR5oA4Cbh/1.3.0.5.19.1.1.25.3.1.1.0?56,11) - figuring they'd be likely to know the correct max amount of RAM their machine would take.

Seems I was wrong. Ah well. ....................

That Apple store page is really funny. There are two ways to measure Gigabytes. First the correct way measured in binary. Which comes out 1024 Megabytes for every Gigabyte. Then there's the base 10 method that everyone is taught to count in. That being a thousand is 1000. It has become increasingly more common for hard drive and computer manufacturors to measure the memory capacity in Base10. What happens is 40GB measured in Base10 is 40.96GB. This allows them to market more capacity then there actually is. Whoever wrote the Apple store page doesn't know how to measure memory. They actually understated it by measuring one Gigabyte using base10 and then adding 256 Megabytes to it. What it should say is not 1,256MB but 1,280MB of RAM. So they're shooting themselves in the foot by understating the actual RAM capacity.

[zync]

Originally posted by MacBandit
That Apple store page is really funny. There are two ways to measure Gigabytes. First the correct way measured in binary. Which comes out 1024 Megabytes for every Gigabyte. Then there's the base 10 method that everyone is taught to count in. That being a thousand is 1000. It has become increasingly more common for hard drive and computer manufacturors to measure the memory capacity in Base10. What happens is 40GB measured in Base10 is 40.96GB. This allows them to market more capacity then there actually is. Whoever wrote the Apple store page doesn't know how to measure memory. They actually understated it by measuring one Gigabyte using base10 and then adding 256 Megabytes to it. What it should say is not 1,256MB but 1,280MB of RAM. So they're shooting themselves in the foot by understating the actual RAM capacity.

I was thinking the exact same thing about the base 10 + 256 chip...which is why I asked if he meant 1 gig plus a 256 chip...and yeah if that's what they mean they're stupid :) how can they have someone write a page for their own product who doesn't know what they're talking about? Besides doesn't the 12" only have 1 DIMM? I need to go to the page to read what they put :)....to answer you're question tomrob the ram isn't soldered in (it's usually not soldered in anyway but when it's non-removeable/inaccessable it's considered on-board, i.e. on the logic board) it's in a DIMM...actually the 12" might have some onboard...lemme see...in either case it at least has one DIMM which is user upgradeable...it even has diagrams in the manual (at least for my 15")...

as an aside I really hate the way HD manufacturers use base 10...it really pisses me off...especially since the computer companies started to use the manufacturer's size claim instead of doing it the right way...my friend tells me there are class action lawsuits against HD manufacturers for the way they represent 1 GB...at least people like Apple put a disclaimer in that says 1 GB = 1,000,000 bytes actual formatted capacity less....I hate that...like my 80GB powerbook....you'd expect:

80GB = 80GB

nope, in reality:

80GB x 1000MB = 80,000MB

80,000MB/1024MB = 78.125GB

HD manufacturers are stealing GB after GB from us and yet we still pay for them...that's wrong...I mean take my iPod and the newer ones...

20GB (mine, 2nd gen) - (reality) 19.53GB
10GB - 9.77GB
40GB - 39.06GB

the higher you get the more you lose...hell back a few years ago this would be hundreds of dollars worth of space...I really have 78 versus 80 while that doesn't seem like much it's still not fair and I still paid for those 2GB...back in the day that was the standard HD...

[zync]

Hey MacBandit, what do you think you get with 1.5GB of RAM? :D

a. 1536MB (1 Gig + 512MB)
b. 1524MB (1 Gig + 500MB (somehow))
c. 1500MB (again, somehow)

:D

[zync]

BTW I'm on dialup and I find it funny that the apple store UK loads faster for me than the american apple store...technically I'm probably closer to the UK though...though there should be fiber optic lines near me to both the UK and california (if they host their site in house which would be expected, though they probably host both in the same place)...it's probably just my mind messing with me...

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by zync
I was thinking the exact same thing about the base 10 + 256 chip...which is why I asked if he meant 1 gig plus a 256 chip...and yeah if that's what they mean they're stupid :) how can they have someone write a page for their own product who doesn't know what they're talking about? Besides doesn't the 12" only have 1 DIMM? I need to go to the page to read what they put :)....to answer you're question tomrob the ram isn't soldered in (it's usually not soldered in anyway but when it's non-removeable/inaccessable it's considered on-board, i.e. on the logic board) it's in a DIMM...actually the 12" might have some onboard...lemme see...in either case it at least has one DIMM which is user upgradeable...it even has diagrams in the manual (at least for my 15")..............

The 12" has one user upgradeable slot and one factory installed slot. If someone knows what they are doing they could replace the factory slot but you would be voiding your warranty.

[Raveny]

it' the 7457 processor.. when you install the chud tools you will notice it. but it's without the 2 MB L3 cache.

[zync]

Originally posted by MacBandit
The 12" has one user upgradeable slot and one factory installed slot. If someone knows what they are doing they could replace the factory slot but you would be voiding your warranty.

That's what I figured...I wonder why they did it that way though...probably so you had to get your RAM upgrades through them...who knows....

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by zync
That's what I figured...I wonder why they did it that way though...probably so you had to get your RAM upgrades through them...who knows....

No, I don't think that's the reason. Because they only put 256MB in the internal slot even on the custom order. I think it's just a way of crippling it so that it's a lower line PowerBook also so the peak price can't get any higher then a certain level. Apple does things like that and it really doesn't make any sense. They should just build to order the way the customer wants it. It's not really a matter of agreeing with the customer it's a matter of selling product and making money so you can invest in R&D and build a better product that the customer will want so they buy another one down the road.

[zync]

Originally posted by MacBandit
No, I don't think that's the reason. Because they only put 256MB in the internal slot even on the custom order. I think it's just a way of crippling it so that it's a lower line PowerBook also so the peak price can't get any higher then a certain level. Apple does things like that and it really doesn't make any sense. They should just build to order the way the customer wants it. It's not really a matter of agreeing with the customer it's a matter of selling product and making money so you can invest in R&D and build a better product that the customer will want so they buy another one down the road.

I had a feeling about this being true too since the max was "1.256 GB"....ok....next time I will say what I "had a feeling" about instead of what I end up saying :)

[tomrob]

PB 12" finally arrived, had it working 48 hours and it's just gorgeous. Anyone with an 800mhz G3 iBook who's tempted by one of these will find it whisper quiet, pleasantly cool even held in the lap and (subjectively at least) very, very fast. It drives a big external DVI monitor effortlessly. One tiny niggle. The reflective silver keys with slim grey letters are hard to see in dim light, tho keyboard itself is a joy to use.

[okatu]

I got mine 12" about an month ago - since then I encountered several probs: AirPort was gone and it wobbled - but after some nice treatment everythin is back in action ;) I formerly had the 800MHz iBook G3 and I gotta say - I never ever wanna go back, the PB is made of much higher quality and runs quieter and cooler then the iBook ;)...anyways - I can only recommend this little machine

[ethernet76]

Personally, I wish they would have stuck with the black keys, the gray looks cheap. Of course though, I like the look of the TiBooks over the Al.

[Packetloss]

Actually the black keys looked like **** compared to the all silver solution right now.

The design is excellent right now, hope they stay in that direction.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Packetloss
Actually the black keys looked like **** compared to the all silver solution right now.

The design is excellent right now, hope they stay in that direction.

This is of course one persons opinion.

[zync]

Originally posted by MacBandit
This is of course one persons opinion.

True....the black keys were cool, but you have to admit, the all silver solution is much more aesthectically pleasing...the silver keys just fit more...

[big]

Personally, I wish they would have stuck with the black keys, the gray looks cheap. Of course though, I like the look of the TiBooks over the Al

I loved the AL look, but the keys look raunchy... I am trying to implement the back lit keys in my Ti... with an El panel. I'll post pics as soon as I get something figured out....

[zync]

for some reason I couldn't edit my post so I'll put this here...

ethernet76, the grey keys do not look cheap...do you actually own an Aluminum PowerBook? The "grey" keys look almost exactly like the rest of the computer....I mean they could've technically made them out of aluminum but the keys are nearly perfect the way they are...the black keys never fit...

[tomrob]

I'm with Zync and Packetloss in their opinion that the keys LOOK great aesthetically. It's a fabulous machine. Also that the keyboard is great to use from a mechanical point of view. Nonetheless, the letters on the keys still haven't got any easier to see in dim light.

Back in the days of the Applemaster program we did feed back a suggestion that PB keys should have a backlighting option for situations like longhaul plane flights, tourbuses at night and typing in bed beside a sleeping partner... which is what I'm doing right now thanks to one of those little bendy USB lights.

The 15" was very tempting for that reason, but the 12" is simply too small and sexy to pass up.

[zync]

Really? I think the 12" is too small...the 15" is perfect...and the BL keyboard makes it more sexy than the 12"....as you can imagine I don't have that problem :)

[teetoo]

I liked the look of the grey keys until I saw then in real life.

Metallic looking paint on plastic never does it for me, it just looks cheap. They should have kept the keys semi trasparent or gone for real metal.

It's like the power button or the plastic popout eject button on my TiBook's PC card slot - a cheap plastic part that's made to look like metal but's actual chome effect plastic.

I hope the next major PB revision costs that little more but has better attention to detail.

[zync]

Originally posted by teetoo
I liked the look of the grey keys until I saw then in real life.

Metallic looking paint on plastic never does it for me, it just looks cheap. They should have kept the keys semi trasparent or gone for real metal.

It's like the power button or the plastic popout eject button on my TiBook's PC card slot - a cheap plastic part that's made to look like metal but's actual chome effect plastic.

I hope the next major PB revision costs that little more but has better attention to detail.

I disagree...my keys are the most metallic looking plastic pieces I've ever seen...maybe that's because they didn't use chrome paint? In either case the cheapest looking piece is the release for the PC slot, except it only looks fake for the brief second it's out, otherwise it's fine too...I mean sure I'd love real metal keys but the plastic ones work for me...and they're so soft...it's like typing on air or something...definitely a nice typing feel...I just wish the plastic around the seams of the metal pieces was more rounded because it can hurt your wrist somewhat depending on your angle to the computer....but you get used to it and it doesn't hurt anymore so I guess it really doesn't matter....

[robbieduncan]

There is one thing that no-one seems to have covered. My Al 15 starts up pretty cold. The palm rest and the bottom are cold as they are made of metal. The keys on the other hand are quite a nice temperature from the start. If they were brushed alluminium they would feel cold. The PC Card eject button could be metal though.

[iChan]

I don't know what the heat issues are like with these new 12-inchers but I have R1 12-incher and the left palm rest was hot as hell...

I had the 60GB BTO one. I replaced it the other day with the Hitachi 7K60 7200RPM and the heat issue has all but dissapeared!! I'm really really shocked at how quiet and cool this new HD remains...

quite a sight and touch to behold!!

alos, it's so much faster!!! wow...

I hope on getting a 1GB RAM chip soon enough to really max out this little baby...
That should tide me over until REV 2 of a 15-inch G5 PB!

I really can't wait for that...

one interesting this is that my 12-inch PB 'FEELS' so much faster than my brothers 15-inch with 1.25Ghz, 512Ram, 5200RPM HD.

This laptop should last quite a while...

Oh man, I sound like I'm just trying to justify keeping this PB. Who Am I Kidding... I want a TRICKED OUT 15-incher! but I'll resist.

better take a cold shower

[uv23]

Originally posted by iChan
I don't know what the heat issues are like with these new 12-inchers but I have R1 12-incher and the left palm rest was hot as hell...

I had the 60GB BTO one. I replaced it the other day with the Hitachi 7K60 7200RPM and the heat issue has all but dissapeared!! I'm really really shocked at how quiet and cool this new HD remains...


Are there instructions anywhere online for replacing the harddrive in the 12"? I want to do this down the road for my Rev B but have no idea how difficult it would be. Also, has battery life been affected at all? And does it really run cooler/quieter than the stock drive? I figured a 7200 rpm drive would have a lot more "whine" than a 4800 rpm drive. Cheers.

[okatu]

Upgrading the HD is not very easy, but otherwise it's also not impossible. Check out www.kodawarisan.com/ug/
They disassambeled an 12" PB, so u can get an idea what to do. Good luck

ps: one of the Keyboardskrews is hidden in the memory slot, just in case ;)

[uv23]

Originally posted by okatu
Upgrading the HD is not very easy...
Yikes you're not kidding!! I just found this: http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/IDE/hitachi_travelstar60GB_7200/travelstar60GB_7200rpm.html

Looks like the kind of thing I'd rather have a service center do for me (assuming they would even install a non-oem drive to begin with)

[hillel]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by okatu
[B]Upgrading the HD is not very easy, but otherwise it's also not impossible. Check out www.kodawarisan.com/ug/
They disassambeled an 12" PB, so u can get an idea what to do. Good luck

They've just posted how to open the 15" model too. Thanks.

Hillel

[Diatribe]

Do any of those who have already gotten their 15" pbs have any insights regarding battery life on those?

[AllenPSU]

Do any of those who have already gotten their 15" pbs have any insights regarding battery life on those?

With the new models just released, I am sure the numbers have changed. My sister's PB (15") gets about 90 minutes to a fully charged battery under moderate use. My PB (12") does a little better with some where between 120-180 minutes depending on what I am doing. For normal internet surfing via Airport I get close to 180 minutes. For movie watching, its closer to the 120 minutes... (bumber since you cannot get through some of the longer movies without a recharge).

[Mokona]

With the new models just released, I am sure the numbers have changed. My sister's PB (15") gets about 90 minutes to a fully charged battery under moderate use. My PB (12") does a little better with some where between 120-180 minutes depending on what I am doing. For normal internet surfing via Airport I get close to 180 minutes. For movie watching, its closer to the 120 minutes... (bumber since you cannot get through some of the longer movies without a recharge).

What are your power management settings for those two hours of movie playback?

[Diatribe]

With the new models just released, I am sure the numbers have changed. My sister's PB (15") gets about 90 minutes to a fully charged battery under moderate use. My PB (12") does a little better with some where between 120-180 minutes depending on what I am doing. For normal internet surfing via Airport I get close to 180 minutes. For movie watching, its closer to the 120 minutes... (bumber since you cannot get through some of the longer movies without a recharge).

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm wondering, because I heard of people getting close to 5 hrs. with the 12" pbs. I just haven't heard anything regarding the battery life on the 15". That should be a lot better also.

[zync]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm wondering, because I heard of people getting close to 5 hrs. with the 12" pbs. I just haven't heard anything regarding the battery life on the 15". That should be a lot better also.

Actually the new ones are probably the same...their batteries have more capacity but their processor speed has increased...as for my "lowly" 1.25GHz 15" I can get about 2-3 hours using AirPort with the screen turned down...or something like 3-4 hours while on dialup (again with the screen turned down) and in the neighborhood of 4+ if I'm not really doing anything but maybe some PHP/XHTML coding or something (of course that's if I'm not switching between dreamweaver and safari the whole time, which happens a lot with PHP :))...