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CLuv
Nov 9, 2007, 02:51 PM
Saw this on an MS fan site, and obviously posted by a Zune fanboy. Completely laughable.

"You can't keep a good retailer down, especially the kind that gadget nerds like us so adore: those that breaking sales embargoes and put hotly anticipated product (like these new Zunes, for example) on store shelves early. Behold, new Zunes -- which aren't supposed to be on sale until next week -- popping up on store shelves at Circuit City and Target. Granted, we don't know how many (if any) sold, since it sounds like they may have actually gotten pulled before customers made a dash for the registers, but who knows, perhaps you might strike Zune gold by trawling the shelves at your local mega-retailer this very weekend. You know who to tip off if you bring home the booty, right? (Note: read link only hits up the Target Zunes, not CC's Zune batch, which is separate.)"

Hotly anticipated? Are you kidding me, how much market share do you have? What is your rate of return on this turd? ZIPPY!

"Customers made a dash for the registers"? Seriously, have you ever seen people line up for the Zune?

Booty? Give me a break, looks like it came from one's "booty".



mosx
Nov 9, 2007, 03:17 PM
:rolleyes:

The new Zune is a decent product. Its a very good alternative to the iPod. If MS keeps up the improvements, the 3G Zune could definitely eat up a chunk of Apple's marketshare.

Microsoft also did one thing right with the Zune. Every single person who purchased an original Zune is getting a firmware update that will bring the old Zune up to the same level as the new Zune, with the exception of the new "Zune Pad" and battery life.

When was the last time Apple offered firmware updates for "previous generation" iPod owners? The 5G firmware update doesn't really count, because it was essentially the same as the 5.5G iPod to begin with, minus the screen and all it did was up the video support from 320x240 to 640x480 and add the support for games that were designed for it. Let's see Apple give us 5G and 5.5G iPod owners a firmware update with the new UI that the new iPods have. Or how about they let us play the games we purchased for our old iPods on our new ones WITHOUT having to purchase them again.

GoodWatch
Nov 9, 2007, 03:25 PM
I seem to be in error here, I thought this was an Apple forum. My bad :rolleyes:

rek71226
Nov 9, 2007, 03:29 PM
I agree, the zune is horrible.. It would have been a great device if this was November 2001...:D

Mindflux
Nov 9, 2007, 03:46 PM
Who cares what the Zune is. Competition breeds competitive pricing and product refreshes. Would we have the iPod video or touch by now if the Zune hadn't popped up? I'm not so sure.

CarlsonCustoms
Nov 9, 2007, 03:48 PM
The zune might be ok if you want to sync with WMP but who wants that?

I'll stick with seemless Itunes integration!

Stampyhead
Nov 9, 2007, 05:10 PM
If MS keeps up the improvements, the 3G Zune could definitely eat up a chunk of Apple's marketshare.

Sorry, but I call 'not going to happen.' The only thing the Zune is good for is keeping Apple on its toes so they don't let the iPod get stagnant. I haven' tried the new Zune (tried the old one though and didn't like it at all), but it doesn't really matter because they're just not catching on like MS had hoped. The only reason they're still around is that Microsoft has deep pockets and can afford to keep a losing product in production...

Scarlet Fever
Nov 9, 2007, 05:15 PM
Apple need the competition. It'll force them to improve, because the whoreism for the iPod can't last.

CRAZYBUBBA
Nov 9, 2007, 05:17 PM
The Zune is very rich in features and well priced. Too bad it doesn't work for mac. I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

CalBoy
Nov 9, 2007, 05:20 PM
Who cares what the Zune is. Competition breeds competitive pricing and product refreshes. Would we have the iPod video or touch by now if the Zune hadn't popped up? I'm not so sure.

Apple need the competition. It'll force them to improve, because the whoreism for the iPod can't last.

Much agreed with both of you. The Zune is still in its early stages. Give it time, and the juggernaut that is Microsoft will turn it into a semi-successful product. At the very least, iPod buyers will see their iPods priced better and their iPods get better features. Competition really is needed in any field. Just like you wouldn't want only one OS in the world, you wouldn't want only one mp3 player either.

GoCubsGo
Nov 9, 2007, 05:22 PM
:rolleyes:

The new Zune is a decent product. Its a very good alternative to the iPod. If MS keeps up the improvements, the 3G Zune could definitely eat up a chunk of Apple's marketshare.

Microsoft also did one thing right with the Zune. Every single person who purchased an original Zune is getting a firmware update that will bring the old Zune up to the same level as the new Zune, with the exception of the new "Zune Pad" and battery life.

When was the last time Apple offered firmware updates for "previous generation" iPod owners? The 5G firmware update doesn't really count, because it was essentially the same as the 5.5G iPod to begin with, minus the screen and all it did was up the video support from 320x240 to 640x480 and add the support for games that were designed for it. Let's see Apple give us 5G and 5.5G iPod owners a firmware update with the new UI that the new iPods have. Or how about they let us play the games we purchased for our old iPods on our new ones WITHOUT having to purchase them again.
Thank you. At least there is one less troll in the world! The new Zune is actually quite nice feature-wise and I totally have to hand it to MS for providing the firmware update to previous Zune owners.

ZiggyPastorius
Nov 9, 2007, 10:31 PM
I'm not trying to be an ass, but an iPod has like three times the space for the same money, and doesn't look horrible...And it is less problematic and space-taking than the Zune, from my experiences.

CalBoy
Nov 9, 2007, 10:52 PM
but an iPod has like three times the space for the same money,
And what iPod is this exactly?
and doesn't look horrible...And it is less problematic and space-taking than the Zune, from my experiences.

Quite true. Design is worth a great deal to most of us.

thebassoonist
Nov 9, 2007, 10:54 PM
:rolleyes:

The new Zune is a decent product. Its a very good alternative to the iPod. If MS keeps up the improvements, the 3G Zune could definitely eat up a chunk of Apple's marketshare.

Microsoft also did one thing right with the Zune. Every single person who purchased an original Zune is getting a firmware update that will bring the old Zune up to the same level as the new Zune, with the exception of the new "Zune Pad" and battery life.

When was the last time Apple offered firmware updates for "previous generation" iPod owners? The 5G firmware update doesn't really count, because it was essentially the same as the 5.5G iPod to begin with, minus the screen and all it did was up the video support from 320x240 to 640x480 and add the support for games that were designed for it. Let's see Apple give us 5G and 5.5G iPod owners a firmware update with the new UI that the new iPods have. Or how about they let us play the games we purchased for our old iPods on our new ones WITHOUT having to purchase them again.

That would be nice. Really nice. It would make me feel like Apple still loved me even though I didn't buy an iPod THIS year.

KurtangleTN
Nov 10, 2007, 08:30 PM
:rolleyes:

The new Zune is a decent product. Its a very good alternative to the iPod. If MS keeps up the improvements, the 3G Zune could definitely eat up a chunk of Apple's marketshare.

Microsoft also did one thing right with the Zune. Every single person who purchased an original Zune is getting a firmware update that will bring the old Zune up to the same level as the new Zune, with the exception of the new "Zune Pad" and battery life.

When was the last time Apple offered firmware updates for "previous generation" iPod owners? The 5G firmware update doesn't really count, because it was essentially the same as the 5.5G iPod to begin with, minus the screen and all it did was up the video support from 320x240 to 640x480 and add the support for games that were designed for it. Let's see Apple give us 5G and 5.5G iPod owners a firmware update with the new UI that the new iPods have. Or how about they let us play the games we purchased for our old iPods on our new ones WITHOUT having to purchase them again.

Exactly! Great post.

The Zune IS a decent product, and that gesture MS did with updating the previous Zunes hopefully starts a trend. I'd get a current one while their cheap, but their lack of OS X support kills the deal.

clevin
Nov 10, 2007, 09:14 PM
pointless rant, follow OP's logic, there should only be monopoly in this world. and competition is absolutely useless.

Is that right? follow that logic, there wouldn't be OSX at all. go back and enjoy OS classic forever.

gkarris
Nov 10, 2007, 09:30 PM
I heard the new version of Zune software and the update to the old Zunes, as well as the new Zunes, are a good alternative to the iPod if you want to go out all Microsoft.

All the other small MP3 players had some form of video, Apple finally added it to the Nano and outdid everyone else.

Apple came out with the Touch to stay ahead of the crowd.

Competition is good... keep on, Zune!

cohibadad
Nov 10, 2007, 11:56 PM
Please don't give up on the Zune. I hope MS sinks a ton of money in the Zune and Surfaces. Keeps Apple on their toes and good for a few laughs at the same time.

Eraserhead
Nov 11, 2007, 03:29 AM
When was the last time Apple offered firmware updates for "previous generation" iPod owners?

The 3G iPod got the 4G iPod's features ;) a bit later, as I believe did the 1/2G iPods at the same time.

Dagless
Nov 11, 2007, 05:41 AM
See, normally I'd be for something like this as it forces Apple to cut prices or release better updates.

But it doesn't. The Zune doesn't bring anything (worthwhile) new to the table. With the Touch and the Classic there's nobody who can touch Apple and push them into making a better device. The market as a whole - yes. But individual products aren't doing it because the marketshare with iPods is just stratospheric.

lampdeskchair
Nov 11, 2007, 06:00 AM
You better hope Microsoft doesn't give up on the Zune and Apple goes back to ZERO competition and craptastic ipod tech updates.


Zune comes out? iPod touch replaces the iPod 5.5g as their flagship iPod not too long after. (Don't count iPhone, since. Well it's a phone lol.)

That's a pretty damn huge update tech wise if you ask me.


I welcome them to a nice big chunk of Apples ipod market share. Will make Apple work much harder and pump out some sweet ****. :D

Dagless
Nov 11, 2007, 08:44 AM
So all the years prior to the Zune of Apple researching touchscreens and "fullscreen iPods" were implanted into our memory to make it look like the Zune forced Apple into updating their product line?

SactoGuy18
Nov 11, 2007, 05:29 PM
From what I've read, the new Zune models are actually quite good, with a lot of new features, improved player navigation and definitely improved interface software. And they priced them to sell: the 8 GB flash memory model sells at the same price as the 8 GB 3G iPod nano.

lampdeskchair
Nov 11, 2007, 07:01 PM
So all the years prior to the Zune of Apple researching touchscreens and "fullscreen iPods" were implanted into our memory to make it look like the Zune forced Apple into updating their product line?

I'm saying without competition, we'd prolly be merely hearing about said research instead of actually using the products for awhile longer. Apple likes to milk their hardware as long as they can. It's just business.

Competition from Microsoft is a good thing.

dextertangocci
Nov 12, 2007, 08:50 AM
I hate the Zune but love the competition it creates for Apple. Competition is good.

mpuck972
Nov 12, 2007, 03:50 PM
Which model iPod allows you to upgrade the firmware to the current generation?

And which iPod has sync capablilty via WiFi?

gkarris
Nov 12, 2007, 04:09 PM
Which model iPod allows you to upgrade the firmware to the current generation?

Probably all the new OS X based iPods (Nano, Classic, Touch, and iPhone).

And which iPod has sync capablilty via WiFi?

Touch and iPhone, when they decide to add it...

ATTENTION: Please keep the edge of the cliff clear, so all Fanboys and iSheep can easily make it safely off the edge with the rest of the lemmings.

:D

thejadedmonkey
Nov 12, 2007, 06:41 PM
The 3G iPod got the 4G iPod's features ;) a bit later, as I believe did the 1/2G iPods at the same time.

1/2gen iPods never got G4 firmware updates, the most they got were the features of the 3G iPod when it first came out.

Personally, I can not wait to try the new Zune software... and I really wish the iPod Classic could get wireless sync, wireless multi-player games, and a 3D GUI.

Tom B.
Nov 12, 2007, 07:24 PM
I would never actually buy a Zune over an iPod, but I have to admit that the new ones are starting to look pretty cool, especially with the announcement of 'Zune Originals Collection'. Basically, they've partnered with a bunch of artists from all over the world to create 27 original, laser-etched designs that you can add to any Zune you buy. It would be nice if Apple did something like this too.

http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/2007/11/zune-originals.jpg

https://zuneoriginals.net/

That-Is-Bull
Nov 12, 2007, 07:47 PM
http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/2007/11/zune-originals.jpg

I still don't understand how anybody could possibly think the front of that looks decent. I mean, the designs on the back are sexy as hell, but the thick beveled puke-green face of it is terrible. I'm seriously trying to like it, but I cringe every time I look at that picture. The brown Zune looked much sexier.

Mechcozmo
Nov 12, 2007, 07:52 PM
When was the last time Apple offered firmware updates for "previous generation" iPod owners?

As soon as there are enough Zune owners, there won't be firmware updates for older Zunes. Apple did the same thing with older iPods; as soon as people were just buying enough new ones, it didn't make sense to try to keep the old ones updated.

Eidorian
Nov 12, 2007, 07:54 PM
Maybe they should start by making it Mac compatible. :rolleyes:

CRAZYBUBBA
Nov 12, 2007, 08:01 PM
Maybe they should start by making it Mac compatible. :rolleyes:

if that happened I'd sell my ipod.

iPhil
Nov 12, 2007, 08:16 PM
Gents,Ladies and All Children: I say get ready to swamp wit your 'Snail Mail '. why i say that here's Microsoft's corp. mail address.. for those who wanna kill the zune ..


Address
Please include the recipient's first and last name, or the department name.
Microsoft Corporation
One Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052-6399



:D :eek: :cool:

Digital Skunk
Nov 12, 2007, 09:03 PM
1/2gen iPods never got G4 firmware updates, the most they got were the features of the 3G iPod when it first came out.

Personally, I can not wait to try the new Zune software... and I really wish the iPod Classic could get wireless sync, wireless multi-player games, and a 3D GUI.

I have used every iPod since its inception and i can honestly tell you that the Classic's interface is by far the best out of all the previous models. I have used the Zune as well, and the only thing going for it in the UI now is the eye candy. The small parts of the iPod UI that Apple made non linear really help in navigating through the menus and it is the fastest pod I have ever used.

The touch will soon become the standard iPod once flash based drives become more affordable. For now, the only pod worth getting is the 160GB Classic since it just has unbelievable space. The touch is wonderful, and better than the any music player out there, including the Zune.

Right now the Zune is only as good as the person that chooses to buy one, and that isn't saying much.

CVV1
Nov 12, 2007, 09:13 PM
I agree, the zune is horrible.. It would have been a great device if this was November 2001...:D

Have you....used one?:rolleyes:

killerrobot
Nov 12, 2007, 09:18 PM
I still don't understand how anybody could possibly think the front of that looks decent. I mean, the designs on the back are sexy as hell, but the thick beveled puke-green face of it is terrible. I'm seriously trying to like it, but I cringe every time I look at that picture. The brown Zune looked much sexier.

Like Apple just some how manages to pick the best colors for it's nanos?
The original art is a killer idea - I would buy one just for that.
I've used the old Zune before, and honestly I didn't feel it was much different than an iPod - just different looking.
I think the new Zune looks a thousand times better, and as others have said, if it were mac compatible I would probably buy one when my iPod dies instead of going back to an iPod.

gloss
Nov 12, 2007, 09:32 PM
The general consensus among reviewers right now is that the new 80gb Zune > the iPod Classic in almost every catagory except maximum capacity and battery life.

Microsoft seems to have gotten their act together. This is good news.

Hell, if they'd add Mac compatibility to the thing I'd probably get one over a Classic.

elppa
Nov 12, 2007, 09:45 PM
The classics were a bit of a disappointment, I think Apple wants everyone to go down the touch route.

The artwork on the back is stunning.

I like the green colour on the flash Zune, I think it is classy, but don't like other parts of the design. The Zune Pad looks fine, it's the other buttons and the big black border around the screen.

They will appeal to people seeking “an alternative”, but offer nothing significantly better over iPod + iTunes.

Digital Skunk
Nov 12, 2007, 09:48 PM
The general consensus among reviewers right now is that the new 80gb Zune > the iPod Classic in almost every catagory except maximum capacity and battery life.

Microsoft seems to have gotten their act together. This is good news.

Hell, if they'd add Mac compatibility to the thing I'd probably get one over a Classic.

I don't think that's the case at all. There is nothing in the Zune besides WiFi that makes it any better than the Classic. I will give credit to the Zune's UI which was much better than the Video iPod's, but saying that the Zune is better in every aspect is just plain denial and illogical.

Digital Skunk
Nov 12, 2007, 10:06 PM
The classics were a bit of a disappointment, I think Apple wants everyone to go down the touch route.

The artwork on the back is stunning.

I like the green colour on the flash Zune, I think it is classy, but don't like other parts of the design. The Zune Pad looks fine, it's the other buttons and the big black border around the screen.

They will appeal to people seeking “an alternative”, but offer nothing significantly better over iPod + iTunes.

I don't think the buttons on the Zune players are that much different from other players. There are some Samsung players that are better, and plenty of cell phones that can play AAC files and have over 4GB of memory.

hexonxonx
Nov 13, 2007, 12:37 AM
The classics were a bit of a disappointment, I think Apple wants everyone to go down the touch route.





Wrong. How can Apple prefer people buy the Touch when it only has up to 16GB storage? To me it was a no brainer, I bought the 160GB Classic because it is small and has tons of space. I don't even have mine half filled yet but it's fun trying. I have my 8GB iPhone but I prefer to use my Classic when listening to music simply because I have everything on it. I don't have to go home every night and change the music on it when I want something differant.

elppa
Nov 13, 2007, 02:20 AM
I don't think the buttons on the Zune players are that much different from other players. There are some Samsung players that are better, and plenty of cell phones that can play AAC files and have over 4GB of memory.

It's not the buttons themselves, it's the positioning in relation to the other elements on the front on the Zune. I should have been clearer.

Digital Skunk
Nov 13, 2007, 07:06 AM
Wrong. How can Apple prefer people buy the Touch when it only has up to 16GB storage? To me it was a no brainer, I bought the 160GB Classic because it is small and has tons of space. I don't even have mine half filled yet but it's fun trying. I have my 8GB iPhone but I prefer to use my Classic when listening to music simply because I have everything on it. I don't have to go home every night and change the music on it when I want something differant.

I agree with this and that is the setup I am trying to get. I don't want to switch from Sprint to AT&T where i live so that gap is still there. The 160GB Classic has been more than amazing in speed and video playback quality. I have it filled with 70+ movies and a plethora of TV shows and music videos. I have my favorite photos and my entire music library and I still have over 70GB of space left. There is no way someone is going to prove that the Zune's stylings -- i do love the artwork on the back though -- and features are better than having 160GB of space for the price of the Zune's 80GB.

I used to think that the Zune's UI was hands over foot better than the iPod's, it still remains that way with the Classic but not by much, and the Touch will certainly replace the Classic once flash is affordable. At that point, the UI of the Touch and iPhone will destroy anything that hasn't caught up, and the Zune is still in a game of catch up to the quality and simplicity of the iPod.

It's not the buttons themselves, it's the positioning in relation to the other elements on the front on the Zune. I should have been clearer.

Oh... sorry. I didn't mean anything by my statement other than the fact that the Zune uses buttons. The new setup is a much better improvement over the previous model though. IMHO until something destroys the click wheel interface, other than Multi Touch, everything else is just a button, albeit a well placed button.

jaw04005
Nov 13, 2007, 09:11 AM
Probably all the new OS X based iPods (Nano, Classic, Touch, and iPhone).

The only OS X-based iPods are the Touch and iPhone. The current Nano and Classic both run a new, modified version of the legacy Portal Player operating system.

Matek
Nov 13, 2007, 11:37 AM
Hmm, like some other people who commented here, I think that it's sad to see so many fanboys yelling how hard the Zune sux. Luckily most reviewers don't agree. As someone else mentioned, the new Zune 80 is pretty much on par with the obvious competitor, the iPod Classic (I wouldn't bring the touch into this battle, since it's targeted at a different part of market).

Like someone mentioned, for now, iPods biggest advantages are battery life (both makers declared 30 hours, the iPod gets even more, Zune gets less) and slightly smaller dimensions (103.5 mm x 61.8 mm x 10.5 mm vs 108.2 x 61.1 x 12.9mm).

On the other hand - the Zune is lighter (128 g vs 140 g), has wireless (g) support for syncing and player to player song exchange, FM radio support, customisable back panels, better charge times (2.25 h full / 1.25 h 90% vs 4 h full / 2h 80%) and a much bigger screen (with the same resolution).

Other things i think are tied:

-Both players have very decent earphones (iPod's are known to be above average, Zune's are in-ear, which usually means it's not the cheapest crap out there).

-Microsoft completely revamped the interface, the software and the online store, many reviewers are liking the new style and MS is also offering DRM free songs. On the other hand, iTunes is a great piece of software/service, one of the selling points of the iPod and can't be beaten that easily.

-The actual physical design is pretty equal too IMHO, although noone can really judge that. I like the iPod very much, but I can't say the Zune is any uglier, don't think the above photo with the green model was fair, after all, there is a much prettier black version :D.

So at the end of the day I'd say the iPod got a really nice competitor. They are very equal players with some advantages on both sides, although right now I think it's normal for the Zune to get a lot of critisism on this forum, since it doesn't have Mac support and people who come here are mainly Mac users.

FX120
Nov 13, 2007, 12:56 PM
There is no way someone is going to prove that the Zune's stylings -- i do love the artwork on the back though -- and features are better than having 160GB of space for the price of the Zune's 80GB.

How is the 80GB Zune the same price as a 160GB iPod?

The 80GB Zune is the same price as an 80GB iPod.

I personally prefer the new Zune's styling over the iPod classic, the customizable "tatoos" on the back are just stunning. I also think that the UI is prettier, and from what I have seen in the UI demos, very intuiative and responsive.

I don't know why so many people think that this is a bad thing... Let Microsoft take some of Apple's market. It will only lead to good things. A good example is AMD vs. Intel. If AMD didn't kick the **** out of Intel in the early 2000's, do you think we would have the Core 2 Duo of today?

Digital Skunk
Nov 13, 2007, 01:15 PM
How is the 80GB Zune the same price as a 160GB iPod?

The 80GB Zune is the same price as an 80GB iPod.

I personally prefer the new Zune's styling over the iPod classic, the customizable "tatoos" on the back are just stunning. I also think that the UI is prettier, and from what I have seen in the UI demos, very intuiative and responsive.

I don't know why so many people think that this is a bad thing... Let Microsoft take some of Apple's market. It will only lead to good things. A good example is AMD vs. Intel. If AMD didn't kick the **** out of Intel in the early 2000's, do you think we would have the Core 2 Duo of today?

Sorry, got my numbers crossed but either way... it's a matter of opinion how the Zune relates to the iPod. I am not saying that is sucks, I love the art on the back, but other than that what else is there? The UI on the Zune is about as annoying as the iPod; neither are that bad but they are still annoying. Have you tried using the WiFi on the Zune? It's terrible, I don;t know if they have changed it from the original version.

And as many other reviewers that aren't fanboys have said... why get 80 GB when you can get 160? I have 80GB of movies... so what do I do... I get the 160 Classic which is still an par with the Zune in every aspect, but once you take into account the software and ease of use in syncing photos, music, etc. the iPod wins out in my court... and this is from a previous user of the Zune.... it's nice, but not that much better than the iPod... all in all, it's up to the user.

ChrisBrightwell
Nov 13, 2007, 01:28 PM
I would actually be interested in a Zune if it would work with iTunes. The interface isn't the best, but having an FM tuner built-in is really nice for those of us who enjoy listening to the radio from time to time.

gloss
Nov 13, 2007, 02:13 PM
I don't think that's the case at all. There is nothing in the Zune besides WiFi that makes it any better than the Classic. I will give credit to the Zune's UI which was much better than the Video iPod's, but saying that the Zune is better in every aspect is just plain denial and illogical.

I'm just going by all the reviews I've read for it thus far. It is, apparently, a more appealing device overall.

By the way, you never owned up for being wrong about that iMac keyboard. ;)

weg
Nov 13, 2007, 02:21 PM
pointless rant, follow OP's logic, there should only be monopoly in this world. and competition is absolutely useless.

Is that right? follow that logic, there wouldn't be OSX at all. go back and enjoy OS classic forever.

Well, there will always be this part of the Apple community that worships Steve Jobs as a god and believes that everybody who doesn't buy Apple products exclusively is an utter idiot. I've learned to ignore them...


Touch and iPhone, when they decide to add it...


The question was which iPod supports WLAN sync, not whether Apple would be able to add that feature "when they decide to add it". According to your argumentation, somebody who needs a tablet PC should not buy a Windows tablet, because Apple could always start building a tablet, when they decide to do so.

princealfie
Nov 13, 2007, 02:59 PM
WLAN sync would suck that battery down too quickly without the wire. :p

mikes63737
Nov 13, 2007, 03:38 PM
I think that the new Zunes look kind of nice. I don't like that green, though.

The first Zune was a piece of ----. I think that the new ones might make Apple realize that they iPod isn't as good as it could be.

It'll be interesting to see what the zPhone is like...

mosx
Nov 13, 2007, 05:55 PM
I really don't understand the Zune hate. It's quite illogical. Sure, MS kind of botched the original Zune launch.

But the new Zunes are very nice. WiFi syncing.. why doesn't my iPhone have that? The iPhone syncs slow enough as it is over USB 2.0, so speed isn't an excuse for Apple. I can put my entire library of music on my 80GB iPod (5.5G) in about the same amount of time it takes to fill up an iPhone. So its already ridiculously slow. Why not add wi-fi syncing?

Aside from the other features already discussed, the Zune has one major feature that the iPod + iTunes combo lacks...

A subscription music service. Now Apple, and the fanboys, always say "people want to own their music". But you know what? For a lot of people like me who are music lovers, the subscription services offer a much better overall value. With the amount of money I've spent at iTunes over the last 3.5 years, I could have paid for many years worth of a subscription service. I've mostly purchased singles from iTunes. When I liked what I heard enough to get the full album, I purchased the CD. No sensible person is going to buy a full album from iTunes, especially not when the much higher quality DRM free CD costs about the same, or maybe $2-$3 more. Whats even better about the subscription services is that when they all upgraded from 128kbps files to 192 or higher, they did it for free. Even people who had purchased music on Napster found that Napster upgraded all of their purchased songs to the higher bitrate for free. Apple charged 30 cents per song, and it still doesn't sound as good as a CD. I can't even use any of the games I bought for my 5.5G iPod on my 3G iPod nano simply because Apple wants me to purchase them AGAIN.

Now that I think about it, buying all of that music on iTunes was a waste. Why did I spend so much money on 128kbps DRM'ed files? If I wanted to waste money on DRM'ed files, I could have been paying for a subscription service where I could download all the music I wanted.

And the whole firmware update for previous Zune owners. People claim Apple has done the same. When? Adding the ability to read notes to the older iPods isn't exactly what I would call a worthy update. Adding podcast support? Again, not really noteworthy.

Look at what Microsoft did for the Zune. The original Zune received the update with the entirely new UI, new features (wi-fi syncing), etc.

Let's see Apple give us 5G and 5.5G iPod owners the new UI. Or at least let those of us who bought iPod games use them on our new iPods.

As it stands right now, I'm not buying any more iPods. How can I buy iPods or even things from iTunes with the way Apple has acted recently? I have absolutely no guarantee that what I buy now will continue to work with future revisions, like the games. When my 5.5G iPod goes bad, I'll either be buying a Zune or giving a 3rd party repair company my money.

That brings me to another point.. Apple won't let those of us who bought iPod games use them on the new iPods without purchasing them AGAIN. People are suspecting that Apple will begin selling applications for the iPhone and iPod touch after the official SDK is released. How can people willingly buy those without any kind of guarantee that you will be able to use those applications on future iPod touch or iPhone revisions?

How can those of us who own a current iPhone know that we will even get any kind of updates or anything once a newer version of the iPhone is released? Apple has basically dropped support for previous hardware entirely once new hardware is out, just look at the iPods. How do we know they won't do the same when the next iPhone is released?

JNB
Nov 13, 2007, 06:03 PM
Subscriptions benefit one party only - the subscribee. Why do you think that cell service, cable/satellite, and the like are so profitable? Purchasing (to fully own) benefit the purchaser, not the seller.

My own company uses the subscription model for our annual licensing. Our Board loves it, our investors love it, Wall Street loves it. Who doesn't? The folks paying that annual license.

Subscription is just indefinite-term rental. It doesn't even offer the price protection of a lease. Nothing more, and certainly nothing better. Complete consumer bend-over, that's all.

Unless one is so completely short-attention-span as to not listen (or watch) anything beyond a few weeks or months, then it's a lose-lose proposition from the get-go.

Digital Skunk
Nov 13, 2007, 07:43 PM
I'm just going by all the reviews I've read for it thus far. It is, apparently, a more appealing device overall.

By the way, you never owned up for being wrong about that iMac keyboard. ;)

;) I did, I think the iMac Thread got bombarded with new posts about the computer though... or there was more than one place that was talking about it. I was eating a lot of crow then.

My girlfriend has an iMac with that keyboard, and I am still fumbling around it trying to find the eject key, the audio keys, and the Expose keys. I still think Apple should have kept those keys the same, and the wireless keyboard should have still had the number pad, but that is a dead discussion. ;)

As for the Zune... I can only speak from personal opinion although I do weigh general consensus on tech devices now and then. I like that MS is doing it differently and if they were to make it work with iTunes and Macs it would be a nice move on MS's part. But until that happens, and it works as smoothly as the iTunes, iLife, iPod combo the Zune will still be on par.

I want to see if that new backing on the Zune is as scratch prone as the iPod's. If not, that and the artwork will make it two things i want on the next iPod.

WLAN sync would suck that battery down too quickly without the wire. :p

Exactly. I would never want to sync my Zune over WLAN ever. I can't see how that is something the world is asking for in a music player, just plug it up then unplug it.

nsbio
Nov 13, 2007, 09:33 PM
I would look at an iPod alternative, such as Zune or Creative player, if they had Mac compatibility. I want to sync my player wirelessly and once in a while I want to be able to listen to FM radio, which none of the Apple's offerings do. iPod Classic is a good player but is no longer much ahead of competition. Unfortunately, Mac users have no chance to be able to chose the competition.

In my case, I own a 2nd gen Nano that freezes on me if I wait more than an hour or so before turning it on after syncing with the computer. I would give Zune a try if I could, since I do not care which label my music player has as long as it works.

Digital Skunk
Nov 13, 2007, 09:59 PM
I would look at an iPod alternative, such as Zune or Creative player, if they had Mac compatibility. I want to sync my player wirelessly and once in a while I want to be able to listen to FM radio, which none of the Apple's offerings do. iPod Classic is a good player but is no longer much ahead of competition. Unfortunately, Mac users have no chance to be able to chose the competition.

In my case, I own a 2nd gen Nano that freezes on me if I wait more than an hour or so before turning it on after syncing with the computer. I would give Zune a try if I could, since I do not care which label my music player has as long as it works.

I would buy a Zune phone if it works on the Sprint or Verizon network, and syncs with my many AAC files on my Mac. If Microsoft debuted a Zune Phone, that was just like the iPhone except on the Sprint network, it could have less storage and i would still buy one.

mosx
Nov 13, 2007, 10:24 PM
Subscriptions and purchases are beneficial in different ways.

You generally buy the music you love. As I said, I have mostly bought singles from iTunes and those that I liked the most ended up being CD purchases.

You buy what you "love" and you keep it to have "forever".

Does buying music online make sense? Not really. As I said before, I've purchased tons of music at iTunes. Several hundred songs. Now that I think about it, that was a complete waste of money. All but a few songs are DRM'ed. The sound quality isn't anywhere near as good as what you get with a CD or other online services. My ability to play them is also dependent on Apple keeping the iTunes authorization servers up. Let's look ahead 20 years from now. Let's say that Apple just happens to go under and I can no longer authorize my computer. Guess what? All those hundreds of songs are gone. Yet all of my CDs will still work. Unless I burned all of those songs to CD. But then I'd have to fish out those CD-Rs, hope they still work, and rip them again and suffer with further decreased sound quality due to a generation loss by using lossy compression on the song twice.

Then theres the fact that you're at the mercy of Apple or whoever thanks to DRM. Let's say Apple wants you to pay for some ability to continue to play your songs on new iPods or iTunes. Much the same way they're trying to ripoff/force people to repurchase their iPod games for their new iPods.

We already know that Apple is charging people to upgrade the sound quality of their songs (when all of the WMA services did it for free), how do we know they won't extend that kind of attitude to other areas?

The way Apple has dropped compatibility in the past, and now with the iPod games, how do we know that they won't require some kind of payment in the future to be able to continue to use our purchased iTunes content?

Buying is generally better than long term rentals. But when you're at the mercy of DRM, buying doesn't make sense. Because theres no knowing if your purchase will be rendered unusable and payment required to continue using it. Apple has done it before and theres no way of knowing if they'll do it again.

This is where music subscription services make sense. Yes you are renting, but you know what you're getting immediately. You're not getting into it think that the company is good, only to be ripped off later (iPod games, other issues). You know from the start that you are renting your music and it will disappear if you stop paying. You get as much music as you can handle for a small fee, you can sync it to a compatible player, and take it everywhere. If they upgrade the sound quality, you get that for free. If you want to "buy it" you get a discount, being a paid subscriber and all.

Considering how Apple has been treating customers lately........... with the issue with ringtones on the iPhone, locking out all but certified video accessories on the new iPods and refusing to release firmware that allows you to use what you want, making customers buy their iPod games again, build quality issues (like the tilted screen on the nano, bad screen on the iPod touch, all around build quality issues with the MacBooks and MBPs), renting music from Microsoft makes more sense than buying music from Apple and not knowing if they're going to find a way to charge you again for it in the future in some way or another.

I'm not the only one who feels this way either: http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/11475/

I'm definitely close to finding buyers for all of my Apple products (iPhone included). I'd rather have a Zune and my HP notebook and know what I'm getting into rather than my MacBook and iPods and not know what Apple will do in the future to try to get more money out of me.

gloss
Nov 13, 2007, 11:04 PM
;) I did, I think the iMac Thread got bombarded with new posts about the computer though... or there was more than one place that was talking about it. I was eating a lot of crow then.

Was just teasing. Sorry if I sounded like a prick. ;)

As for the Zune... I can only speak from personal opinion although I do weigh general consensus on tech devices now and then. I like that MS is doing it differently and if they were to make it work with iTunes and Macs it would be a nice move on MS's part. But until that happens, and it works as smoothly as the iTunes, iLife, iPod combo the Zune will still be on par.


I agree. While the new interface and software are a very great improvement over the original (which, frankly, sucked profoundly), no Mac support means it will never be my primary player. It'll be my 'I don't want to get mugged on the Metro' player.

Digital Skunk
Nov 14, 2007, 08:23 AM
Was just teasing. Sorry if I sounded like a prick. ;)



I agree. While the new interface and software are a very great improvement over the original (which, frankly, sucked profoundly), no Mac support means it will never be my primary player. It'll be my 'I don't want to get mugged on the Metro' player.

No no ... not a prick at all seriously. I laughed my butt off when the keyboard was introduced with the iMac and thought, "Those guys and gals at MacRumors are going to have my head now!" I think I was the loudest opposition to that keyboard, and the only person to stay up until it was released.

I have one of those "Hey he's gotta gun... take my MP3 player please" devices... the shuffle. I may upgrade to a Nano but right now I am in the county where crime exists in cow tipping and deflating the tractor's tires.

I said to nsbio a few posts back that I'd buy a Zune Phone if it worked with the Mac, and I could copy my AAC files onto it, or sync it through the Zune Store for Mac if it worked on the Sprint network, and was just as much a worthy competitor to the iPhone, as the Zune is to the Classic. In fact, I am probably going to keep my ears open for a Zune Phone since Apple has a stupid contract with AT&T on that bloody iPhone.

I hope this thread doesn't become the Purchase vs Subscription thing again. I think we have already decided that both are a good model if done correctly. Right now Apple charges a reasonable price (whether you think it's reasonable or not is your own opinion, but everyone is following after Apple and Apple's iTS is still in good business so it works) for their songs even with DRM.

If you want to strip the DRM, buy a re-writable CD and burn the songs to it, then copy them back in, or spend the extra $.30 to get the DRM free songs, the whole situation has been blown way out of proportion.

Now... subscription services can work if they follow a lot of the current businesses models, like eMusic, which sucks because it only has the underground/indie artists which usually include some suburban kid using a MacBook and garage band to scream into his microphone and sing about how tough his spoiled life is. The good thing about eMusic is that you could download anything. Apple could get their hands on it and turn it around, especially with video and movies.

Evangelion
Nov 14, 2007, 08:28 AM
Touch and iPhone, when they decide to add it...

I'll take that as an "no iPod offers that feature at the moment". Thanks for playing! No, "iPhone and touch MIGHT offer that feature in the future!" does not cut it. Vaporware does not cut it.