Soon to 'switch'

[iPC]

Ok, my last reason for not switching is no longer valid; PB updates.

After work today I am going to the Apple store (Palisades) to check out the new 15" PB.

I am thinking the following is good:

1GHz
combo
60GB
512MB (BTO)
AE card (BTO)
$2099

My biggest worry is AppleCare. This is the first release of a new style (rev?) of 15" PB. Should I get AC, or wait 9 months and see how reliable the machine is first? It will mainly be for home use, and the occasional trip to the g/f house, or the very occasional road trip for work.

The other thing is:

1.25GHz
combo (BTO)
80GB
512MB
AE card
$2399

What should I do??? 1 or 1.25? SuperDrive is out of the question. AC now or later?

Any help is greatly needed, and appreciated.

THANKS

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by iPC
What should I do??? 1 or 1.25? SuperDrive is out of the question. AC now or later?

-iPC

Ahh. It is time...

You are going to get varying opinions on AppleCare, though I always get AppleCare for my machines. Not only do you get all of the stuff that is said on paper (and TechTool), but if you do need to call them, or go to an Apple Store, you're royalty.

As for the machine - get the big guy. The backlit keyboard baby!

[TheFallGuy]

Depends on what you need. In 15"

1GHz
combo
60GB
512MB (BTO)
AE card (BTO)
$2099

or

1.25GHz
combo (BTO)
80GB
512MB
AE card
$2399

I went with the 1.25Ghz, combo, 60GB, 512MB, AE. I'm not going to be burning DVDs, so changed that. I also got AC because I'm switching over to mac from PC. I mean who knows what could happen over the next couple years. It'll hopefully keep me satisfied and my laptop from becoming irreplaceable. Have fun!

[iPC]

All I "need" is a new laptop. My 4 yr old IBM no longer charges batteries, so it is permanently tethered to the wall (not much point to that).

I like linux, so OS X has had me intrigued since the 10.0 beta came out.

The backlit keyboard is nice, but not enough to make me want to spend $300 to get it.

To be honest, I would buy the 12" if not for the lackluster screen.

Another thing; is it better to buy from apple.com or from brick and mortar store? If I am doing a BTO, I presume that the meatspace store will have to order it, and I am stuck making 2 trips (1 to buy, 1 to pick up). Is that true? If so, go to store to play with machine, then order from home???

*sigh*

I hate thinking about big purchases. If I had more $$$ I would just buy the 1.25 with SD and 1gig of RAM....

Anyone willing to make a donation to the "Chris is poor - computer fund" today?!? :cool: :rolleyes: ;)

[jxyama]

obviously, if you are a student, go to apple.com and get the edu. discounted version... (which i think you are, considering the prices...)

you can add backlit keyboard for $70 BTO to a 1 GHz 15" if you wanted to.

i'd go for the 1 GHz if 60 GB HD is enough. i assume your 1 GHz 512 MB RAM BTO is one DIMM. in such a case, 1.25 GHz would have to be BTO'ed to get one DIMM 512 MB stick, i think... so that will add some cost to the 1.25 GHz...

if you can live with 768 MB RAM, get a 512 MB on your own and add it to the 256 MB that comes with stock. you can get more bang for your bucks that way. the only reason to pay apple $$$ to get the 1 DIMM 512 MB stick is if you intend on going all the way to 1 GB RAM.

[Mav451]

1.25Ghz no doubt. The extra 250mhz will means it lasts that much longer. From the info you've provided, it seems you get 20gb more HD space (always welcome on laptops) AND 250mhz more power

[iPC]

Well... I just got back from the store. One thing I do know, I will not be buying my next machine from there. HORRIBLE SERVICE. I walked in, went straight to the display of the new 15" PB, looked at it for a good 3 minutes, looked over at the sales guy a few times, played with the PB some more, looked at the 12" for a bit, looked at the salesperson again, walked over to the software section (games), looked around for a bit, walked back over to the PB display, fiddled for a second or two, looked at the salesguy again, and then walked out the door. I was in the store for nearly 10 minutes....

NOT ONE SINGLE EMPLOYEE GOT SO FAR AS TO SAY EVEN 'HELLO' TO ME! :mad:

A 28yr old white guy walks into a Apple store ready to spend $2200+ and can not even get a employee to acknowledge his existance.

Amazing.

To tell you the truth, I got so mad that I was not impressed by the new 15" PB! Something I have been waiting to buy since the 12' and 17" Al PB's were first announced way-back-when. Now I am questioning why I want to buy one. If I do, it will be from MacMall (http://www.macmall.com/) or MacConnection (http://www.macconnection.com/).

[lmalave]

Originally posted by iPC
Well... I just got back from the store. One thing I do know, I will not be buying my next machine from there. HORRIBLE SERVICE. I walked in, went straight to the display of the new 15" PB, looked at it for a good 3 minutes, looked over at the sales guy a few times, played with the PB some more, looked at the 12" for a bit, looked at the salesperson again, walked over to the software section (games), looked around for a bit, walked back over to the PB display, fiddled for a second or two, looked at the salesguy again, and then walked out the door. I was in the store for nearly 10 minutes....

NOT ONE SINGLE EMPLOYEE GOT SO FAR AS TO SAY EVEN 'HELLO' TO ME! :mad:

A 28yr old white guy walks into a Apple store ready to spend $2200+ and can not even get a employee to acknowledge his existance.

Amazing.

To tell you the truth, I got so mad that I was not impressed by the new 15" PB! Something I have been waiting to buy since the 12' and 17" Al PB's were first announced way-back-when. Now I am questioning why I want to buy one. If I do, it will be from MacMall (http://www.macmall.com/) or MacConnection (http://www.macconnection.com/).

Man, you are one passive-aggressive dude. Did you think to just walk over to a salesperson and say, "Hi, I'm interested in the PowerBooks." It's a store, not a restaurant. It's not like you're sitting down at a table waiting for service. It's perfectly OK to walk up to salespeople at a retail store.

[iPC]

Originally posted by lmalave
Man, you are one passive-aggressive dude. Did you think to just walk over to a salesperson and say, "Hi, I'm interested in the PowerBooks." It's a store, not a restaurant. It's not like you're sitting down at a table waiting for service. It's perfectly OK to walk up to salespeople at a retail store.
I was the store manager of a higher end furniture (http://www.kidsbeds.com/) store for nearly 2 years. I know how retail works. The guy in front had a customer (a waste of his time - but that is another matter) and the guy in back was too busy fooling around on a iMac to notice me. They are there to sell to me. It's not my job to make sure that they greet someone that walks in the door the day after major new hardware is announced. They should know better, and I hold them accountable. If one of my salespeople ever did that (and they did from time to time - I always made sure that the ignored customer received proper service from me), they got to go home early. No questions asked, no excuses, no matter how busy.

I think this is why Apple should have their salespeople on commission; so they actually care what is happening in the store. Hourly wages and discounts on stuff don't cut it for most people. Motivation is the key. Today, the Palisades Mall location of the Apple Store was not motivated to sell a PowerBook to a customer that knew what he wanted (1.25 by the way), and had the funds to buy it.

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by iPC
I was the store manager of a higher end furniture (http://www.kidsbeds.com/) store for nearly 2 years. I know how retail works. The guy in front had a customer (a waste of his time - but that is another matter) and the guy in back was too busy fooling around on a iMac to notice me. They are there to sell to me. It's not my job to make sure that they greet someone that walks in the door the day after major new hardware is announced. They should know better, and I hold them accountable. If one of my salespeople ever did that (and they did from time to time - I always made sure that the ignored customer received proper service from me), they got to go home early. No questions asked, no excuses, no matter how busy.

I think this is why Apple should have their salespeople on commission; so they actually care what is happening in the store. Hourly wages and discounts on stuff don't cut it for most people. Motivation is the key. Today, the Palisades Mall location of the Apple Store was not motivated to sell a PowerBook to a customer that knew what he wanted (1.25 by the way), and had the funds to buy it.

-iPC

I agree completely. Comission with a draw all the way. The ol' "Five Feet, or Five Seconds" rule.

Currently, it depends on the store, of course, and the style of the manager. That's unfortunate. The shaumburg store here in the Chicago area was notorious for doing what you tell, for a few months at any rate. However, if I go to the Michigan Avenue flagship, I have to beat them off with a stick and a frozen trout.

If it's worth your time, this manager needs to be reported to Apple Corporate.

It's unfortunate that this experience seems to have put you off.

[iPC]

Originally posted by patrick0brien
-iPC

I agree completely. Comission with a draw all the way. The ol' "Five Feet, or Five Seconds" rule.

Currently, it depends on the store, of course, and the style of the manager. That's unfortunate. The shaumburg store here in the Chicago area was notorious for doing what you tell, for a few months at any rate. However, if I go to the Michigan Avenue flagship, I have to beat them off with a stick and a frozen trout.

If it's worth your time, this manager needs to be reported to Apple Corporate.

It's unfortunate that this experience seems to have put you off.
I think it might be worth their time more than it is worth mine...

How do I go about contacting "Apple Corporate" today?

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by iPC
I think it might be worth their time more than it is worth mine...

How do I go about contacting "Apple Corporate" today?

-iPC

408.996.1010

I'd also try retail@apple.com

[iPC]

Originally posted by patrick0brien
-iPC

408.996.1010

I'd also try retail@apple.com
Thank you.

[lmalave]

Originally posted by iPC
I was the store manager of a higher end furniture (http://www.kidsbeds.com/) store for nearly 2 years. I know how retail works. The guy in front had a customer (a waste of his time - but that is another matter) and the guy in back was too busy fooling around on a iMac to notice me. They are there to sell to me. It's not my job to make sure that they greet someone that walks in the door the day after major new hardware is announced. They should know better, and I hold them accountable. If one of my salespeople ever did that (and they did from time to time - I always made sure that the ignored customer received proper service from me), they got to go home early. No questions asked, no excuses, no matter how busy.

I think this is why Apple should have their salespeople on commission; so they actually care what is happening in the store. Hourly wages and discounts on stuff don't cut it for most people. Motivation is the key. Today, the Palisades Mall location of the Apple Store was not motivated to sell a PowerBook to a customer that knew what he wanted (1.25 by the way), and had the funds to buy it.

Well, I have no retail management experience, but as a customer I wouldn't get mad and certainly wouldn't storm out of a store if a salesperson didn't come up to me. Take buying shoes, for example. I've walked into a Foot Locker and been immediately helped. And I've walked into a Prada and not immediately been helped. It's also of course worked the other way around: I've walked into a mall store and not gotten helped, and walked into a high-end store and been fawned over. But the point is, it didn't matter at all to my satisfaction as a customer, because as soon as I knew I wanted to try on a shoe, I merely flagged down the nearest salesperson and said, "Hi, I need this in a size X". You gotta take control of the situation, dude. Life's too short to wait for things to come to you.

[iPC]

Originally posted by lmalave
Well, I have no retail management experience, but as a customer I wouldn't get mad and certainly wouldn't storm out of a store if a salesperson didn't come up to me. Take buying shoes, for example. I've walked into a Foot Locker and been immediately helped. And I've walked into a Prada and not immediately been helped. It's also of course worked the other way around: I've walked into a mall store and not gotten helped, and walked into a high-end store and been fawned over. But the point is, it didn't matter at all to my satisfaction as a customer, because as soon as I knew I wanted to try on a shoe, I merely flagged down the nearest salesperson and said, "Hi, I need this in a size X". You gotta take control of the situation, dude. Life's too short to wait for things to come to you.
It's called service.

Besides I just called the store, and they can't sell a machine with a upgraded hard drive (Douglas told me to order from apple.com instead - at least he is a nice guy).

*shrug*

I just don't get it.

[lmalave]

Originally posted by iPC
It's called service.

Besides I just called the store, and they can't sell a machine with a upgraded hard drive (Douglas told me to order from apple.com instead - at least he is a nice guy).

*shrug*

I just don't get it.

Well, I would distinguish between sales and service. But obviously from your point of view you were dissatisfied so I guess that's what actually matters. Personally, I much prefer to not be bothered by salespeople until I need help.

As far as online stores - you should definitely look at resellers - they don't charge sales tax unless they're based in your state, and they'll usually throw in freebies like extra RAM. I bought my iBook from ClubMac and was totally satisfied.

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by iPC
It's called service.

Besides I just called the store, and they can't sell a machine with a upgraded hard drive (Douglas told me to order from apple.com instead - at least he is a nice guy).

*shrug*

I just don't get it.

-iPC

Well wait a sec. You're talking BTO. Apple stores can't do BTO's there. That's done farther up the supply chain.

Apple stores aren't really full retail stores, it's a model similar to the Gateway Country idea, but do have some limited inventory. The Apple store is overarchingly designed as a showspace, information, and ordering center. If you were to walk in to the store and talk BTO, they'd be happly to consult with you on design and ordering it there. And hold it for you when it comes in.

[iPC]

Originally posted by patrick0brien
-iPC

Well wait a sec. You're talking BTO. Apple stores can't do BTO's there. That's done farther up the supply chain.

Apple stores aren't really full retail stores, it's a model similar to the Gateway Country idea, but do have some limited inventory. The Apple store is overarchingly designed as a showspace, information, and ordering center. If you were to walk in to the store and talk BTO, they'd be happly to consult with you on design and ordering it there. And hold it for you when it comes in.
I don't understand the point of that. That moves the incentive from selling computers (what brings most people in the door) to selling add-ons such as iPods, iSights, dig cameras, and software. This must be why most of the stores aren't doing that well. The big money goes to apple.com or MacMall or whomever, and then the retail locations gets the chump change stuff, and the occasional computer sale.

Are most people that are buying Mac's buying them in the non-BTO fashion? Is that why the included RAM is now 256MB across the board as a minimum for the PB's now? Strange...

This seems like a convoluted strategy for selling something. "We could do it better, but that would cost us a bit more, so we will do it this other way instead."

Computer stores are supposed to be akin to car dealerships; "we can get you anything you want that is a option." It should just be a matter of timing. Maybe some smart engineer will figure out that if the mem, hdd, AE card, etc were all easy to change out (4 screws or less) then the stores could sell more, better, and faster.... My ThinkPad requires the removal of one screw if I want to upgrade the memory or the hard drive. This is from something made in 1999. Does everything have to be so damned difficult to do the proper way? No.

Either way, once I settle down, I am reasonably certain I will purchase the 1.25GHz model with the combo drive for $2399 and spend the $200 on aftermarket memory...

Unless Gobi happens to the iBook soon of course ;)

http://www.barefeats.com/al15.html

Why is the slowest (1.3GHz) Centrino still so much faster than the PB's on the CPU intensive stuff...? (Not to mention Alienware Sentia can be had with 1.4GHz and 1GB for about $2k even - no OS X though - which is why I want a Mac to begin with).

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by iPC
Are most people that are buying Mac's buying them in the non-BTO fashion? Is that why the included RAM is now 256MB across the board as a minimum for the PB's now? Strange...

-iPC

Well, you're blurring a line here. RAM is installable at the store. Along with any software, and AE card - essentially 'User serviceable' parts, though the real definition Apple sets.

Adding drives to a PB is a BTO.

If you want to know what is what, go to www.Apple.com and take a look at the store listings - you'll see a little "BTO" next to those that you can't get off the shelf at an Apple store - it is built-to-order after all.

The same is true with car dealerships. If you ask for a car that is considered Built to Order - you'll wait. Of course, a car dealership's definition of BTO is based on what is on the lot.

[iPC]

Originally posted by patrick0brien
-iPC

Well, you're blurring a line here. RAM is installable at the store. Along with any software, and AE card - essentially 'User serviceable' parts, though the real definition Apple sets.
Do you mean they will install software at the store?

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by iPC
Do you mean they will install software at the store?

-iPC

I could be talking out of my a** as I've never needed it myself, but I think so.

[joeyjojoe]

yes they will if you have applecare. you just take the software you purchased to a macgenius and they will help you install.

side note, i wanted a single 512 DIMM on the powerbook and they don't do that in the store. the sales person said I could buy the 512, have someone help me install it, and then sell the two 256 DIMMs on eBay. i wondered why they just wouldn't do an exchange + difference.

also, the people at the grove store in LA are horrid at helping you. i went in and looked for a hiarddrive, couldn't find it, had to flag someone down, was told it would be where i was previously looking, had to drag the person over and show them it wasn't there, get told it was upstairs, couldn't find it upstairs, asked a macgenius, got told to get someone from downstairs to help me, went downstairs and told the guy what the macgenius said, have the salesperson get pissy at me and the macgenius, and finally got the product. i'm sorry but that is too much work. i understand they have a laid back atmosphere and all, but when it takes 30 minutes to do something you can do at best buy in 5, its not acceptable.

[e-coli]

Originally posted by iPC
Do you mean they will install software at the store?

Yes, they'll install software there, and no you don't need AppleCare, but they will charge you.

I like the fact that the employees at the Apple store leave you alone. I thinks it's nice and low pressure. They just encourage you to "hang out" with the products. It's refreshing.

[iPC]

Originally posted by e-coli
Yes, they'll install software there, and no you don't need AppleCare, but they will charge you.

I like the fact that the employees at the Apple store leave you alone. I thinks it's nice and low pressure. They just encourage you to "hang out" with the products. It's refreshing.
I was not there to hang out. I have done that in the past, and someone has always walked up to say hi and see if I needed help with anything. Today the answer would have been "yes, I want to order this here... but I have a few questions first" or something similar. Nobody bothered to find out why I was there. That bothers me, a lot.

[patrick0brien]

-iPC

Well, you're a hard man to please, Charlie Brown.

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by lmalave
Well, I have no retail management experience, but as a customer I wouldn't get mad and certainly wouldn't storm out of a store if a salesperson didn't come up to me. Take buying shoes, for example. I've walked into a Foot Locker and been immediately helped. And I've walked into a Prada and not immediately been helped. It's also of course worked the other way around: I've walked into a mall store and not gotten helped, and walked into a high-end store and been fawned over. But the point is, it didn't matter at all to my satisfaction as a customer, because as soon as I knew I wanted to try on a shoe, I merely flagged down the nearest salesperson and said, "Hi, I need this in a size X". You gotta take control of the situation, dude. Life's too short to wait for things to come to you.

I agree. The real test for a retail store is whether they help you when you need it, not who has to seek who out.

Lots of times I have been annoyed by salespeople b/c I walked into a store knowing exactly what I wanted and I didn't need help.

[iPC]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
I agree. The real test for a retail store is whether they help you when you need it, not who has to seek who out.

Lots of times I have been annoyed by salespeople b/c I walked into a store knowing exactly what I wanted and I didn't need help.
The litmus test is sales. Kind of hard to sell something if you never talk to anyone.......

I really have nothing new to add to this discussion.

[Lancetx]

Personally, I'd much rather be left alone when I shop at a retail store than to have an employee pestering me every 2 minutes. If it does come down to the point where I do need help though, I would be upset if nobody was available to help out whatsoever, but this doesn't sound like this was the case here.

I certainly didn't run into any of that at the Apple store where I purchased my eMac in May. I essentially was left alone to look around, compare and make up my own mind. Then when I was ready, it took all of about 10 seconds to ask an employee to come over and he then went about completing my sale. I also liked the fact that he mentioned AppleCare, .Mac, other accessories, etc, but didn't push any of them on me at all.

I guess some people want different things from their retail experiences, but personally I liked this approach far better than I would have if I were fending off employees for 20 minutes until I made up my mind exactly what I wanted to buy that day. I've been back to that store several times since then both to make purchases and to simply look around. Every time I've been given the freedom to do that without being burdened or constantly asked if I needed anything. And when I have made purchases, I've had no trouble finding someone to take my money rather promptly either. :)

[iPC]

Originally posted by Lancetx
Personally, I'd much rather be left alone when I shop at a retail store than to have an employee pestering me every 2 minutes. If it does come down to the point where I do need help though, I would be upset if nobody was available to help out whatsoever, but this doesn't sound like this was the case here.

I certainly didn't run into any of that at the Apple store where I purchased my eMac in May. I essentially was left alone to look around, compare and make up my own mind. Then when I was ready, it took all of about 10 seconds to ask an employee to come over and he then went about completing my sale. I also liked the fact that he mentioned AppleCare, .Mac, other accessories, etc, but didn't push any of them on me at all.

I guess some people want different things from their retail experiences, but personally I liked this approach far better than I would have if I were fending off employees for 20 minutes until I made up my mind exactly what I wanted to buy that day. I've been back to that store several times since then both to make purchases and to simply look around. Every time I've been given the freedom to do that without being burdened or constantly asked if I needed anything. And when I have made purchases, I've had no trouble finding someone to take my money rather promptly either. :)
Ok fine, don't read the thread.

I wasn't even greeted! I was in there for nearly 10 minutes. I was there to buy a PowerBook. New hardware was released the day before.

The Apple store in the Palisades Mall sucks. It is no wonder they don't sell much (I have only seen purchases 3 or 4 times in the 10 visits that I have been there - not counting my own purchases). The place needs a manager who has a clue.

I now understand my roommates term; "Apple apologists" :rolleyes:

[FuzzyBallz]

... nm.

[iPC]

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38769