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MacRumors
Nov 12, 2007, 10:40 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

AppleInsider reports (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/11/12/ultra_portable_apple_notebook_to_splash_down_at_macworld_expo.html) that Macworld San Francisco 2008 will be the launching ground for Apple's long-rumored ultra-portable laptop.

The new 13" aluminum sub-notebook is described to be 50% lighter and "strikingly slimmer" than the existing 15" MacBook Pros. To achieve this small form factor, Apple is said to have removed an optical drive from the design of the new laptop. As well, Apple will incorporate NAND flash-based storage as well as LED backlights to improve power efficiency.

Appleinsider posted their belief (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/16/apple-sub-notebook-nearing-release/) that a sub-notebook is coming from Apple back in February of 2007. Rumors of an ultra-portable Mac, however, have been ongoing (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/12/04/ultra-thin-12-macbook-pro/) for months with talk of a NAND-based ultra-portable Mac (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/06/15/apple-planning-ultra-portable/) dating as far back as June 2006.

This new description of an aluminum case corresponds to a recent report (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/21/slim-aluminum-macbooks-soon/) by 9to5 indicating that slim aluminum MacBooks had been spotted with "something strange" about the touchpad.

Macworld Expo takes place (http://www.macworldexpo.com/) from January 15-18th, 2008 in San Francisco, California.

For what its worth, Apple 2.0 Blog (http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2007/11/12/report-ultralight-macbook-at-macworld/?source=yahoo_quote) reports that Piper Jaffrey's Gene Munster is 75% certain that an ultralight MacBook “or possibly an entirely new product” will be coming in January at Macworld. They also point to photos and video (http://www.ryanblock.com/2007/11/the-first-macbook-pro-with-a-64gb-ssd/) of Engadget editor, Ryan Block, successfully transplanting a pre-release Samsung 64GB solid-state drive into his MacBook Pro.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/12/ultra-portable-mac-expected-at-macworld-expo-2008/)



xUKHCx
Nov 12, 2007, 10:42 AM
Good, will be great for students all over the land, but I doubt it would be cheap.

bigandy
Nov 12, 2007, 10:43 AM
as always, i'll believe it when i see it. :rolleyes:

edutek
Nov 12, 2007, 10:43 AM
That's exciting :) Still don't understand what "something strange" could be, though.

viltsu
Nov 12, 2007, 10:43 AM
Yeah, now they got stuff to release in MWSF. But tomorrow, Apple, please introduce the Mac Pro! :cool:

xUKHCx
Nov 12, 2007, 10:44 AM
as always, i'll believe it when i see it. :rolleyes:

What like the iPhone that was rumoured for years.

zombitronic
Nov 12, 2007, 10:44 AM
This new description of an aluminum case corresponds to a recent report (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/21/slim-aluminum-macbooks-soon/) by 9to5 indicating that slim aluminum MacBooks had been spotted with "something strange" about the touchpad.


This is the part that I'm interested in.

jockmock
Nov 12, 2007, 10:45 AM
so, how big will the screen be?

Chaszmyr
Nov 12, 2007, 10:46 AM
Exactly the machine I predicted! I'm not sure if I'm going to buy one, but I'm glad Apple's going to make one.

AliensAreFuzzy
Nov 12, 2007, 10:46 AM
I'm really excited. I want something really small and portable so I can just grab it and go. Hopefully this pans out.

arn
Nov 12, 2007, 10:47 AM
so, how big will the screen be?

13" screen. Sorry, updated story.

arn

conshok26
Nov 12, 2007, 10:49 AM
So I assume that to install from a disk I would need to purchase an external drive. I'm very interested in the flash hd. Engadget posted a video were Ryan installed one on his mbp and it was around a 20 sec startup.

OdduWon
Nov 12, 2007, 10:49 AM
Good call apple. who needs a optical drive when your on the go? Definitely going to boost online sales/rentals of movies, or make handbrake a household name :D would be cool to have something this small (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/_archives/Mar01/images/Imec-Hands.jpg), Only usable.

darthraige
Nov 12, 2007, 10:50 AM
MacPro coming this week then. Focus all attention on newer technology (not just an update) at MWSF. :D

motulist
Nov 12, 2007, 10:51 AM
I hope they don't pull a Cube fiasco on this product.

Yes, it's expected that you have to pay extra to have a small and attractive form factor, however, the premium can't be too much higher. The pricing for this product will be the key to it's success or failure.

happydude
Nov 12, 2007, 10:51 AM
it's about time. though . . . 13"? why not 12"?! "subnotebook" should be smaller than the current 13" macbook IMHO

sunfast
Nov 12, 2007, 10:51 AM
I love the "75% certainty". How do you come up with that?

Still, I reckon this would be a great product if true. Expensive though...

MacBoobsPro
Nov 12, 2007, 10:51 AM
Without an optical drive Apple will have to offer Leopard, iLife et al as a digital download right?

drake
Nov 12, 2007, 10:52 AM
Count on shortly after its release, a rash of post from people complaining how hot their new Macbook Pros are, and lots of heat related issues. You heard it here first. :p

sunfast
Nov 12, 2007, 10:52 AM
something this small[/URL], Only usable.

And less hideous! :D

brsboarder
Nov 12, 2007, 10:52 AM
I'll be selling my macbook on that day if its released and decently priced/speced

Chaszmyr
Nov 12, 2007, 10:53 AM
I hope they don't pull a Cube fiasco on this product.

Yes, it's expected that you have to pay extra to have a small and attractive form factor, however, the premium can't be too much higher. The pricing for this product will the key to it's success or failure.

Completely right. Sony makes what are hands-down the most impressive ultraportables on the market, but you virtually never see them in the wild because they are extremely expensive. I think if Apple prices this new machine of theirs at $1499 it will sell like crazy. At $1999 it will sell alright, and anything over that and it will hardly sell at all. They could conceivably price it as low as $999, since it sounds like it will use standard laptop components, but at that price you'd have to expect to have hardly any disk space (like, say, 8gb).

lallenlowe
Nov 12, 2007, 10:53 AM
So I assume that to install from a disk I would need to purchase an external drive. I'm very interested in the flash hd. Engadget posted a video were Ryan installed one on his mbp and it was around a 20 sec startup.

link please?

Epicurus
Nov 12, 2007, 10:53 AM
This is definitely something that I'd go for, despite my love for my trusty 15" PowerBook. I almost got a 12" PB before they stopped making them, but I figured there would be a 12" MacBook Pro before long. Well, its been a long while and I hope the wait is finally over.

I don't know if a mini-laptop or a slate tablet would be cooler, but either way I'll probably buy one as soon as they're available.

dazzer21
Nov 12, 2007, 10:53 AM
The new 13" aluminum sub-notebook is described to be 50% lighter and "strikingly slimmer" than the existing 15" MacBook Pros.

So is this going to sit below the Macbook, between it and the MacBook Pro or replace the MacBook entirely? If it's going to have a 13" screen, that makes the MacBook ultra-portable already, doesn't it? I thought the idea, though, was for it to have a smaller footprint...

Chaszmyr
Nov 12, 2007, 10:54 AM
Without an optical drive Apple will have to offer Leopard, iLife et al as a digital download right?

Not necessarily. It may be required that you have another computer that you hook it up to to install software. Or sell an external optical drive.

nagromme
Nov 12, 2007, 10:54 AM
External optical = good. (And is nothing to do with the "minimalist nature" of Steve Jobs: the same technique has been used by other brands of ultrathin laptops.)

13" screen = too big! But still welcome for the thinness/lightness. And the margin around the screen/keyboard could be smaller than the MacBook.

I'm really hoping for the best GPU they can cram in the space and not drain the battery.

neven
Nov 12, 2007, 10:54 AM
Well... if the only difference between it and the MacBook is the weight and thickness, I really hope they don't make it a new product line, but rather replace the MacBook with it. Apple's product line is getting pretty wide as it is.

Of course, the "strange" touchpad might turn out to be a significant new feature but even so, one would hope that they would just add it to the MacBook line. One thing that might keep the MacBook alive is the price - this new notebook might end up costing quite a bit more. Will MacBook get eMac-ed?

neven
Nov 12, 2007, 10:57 AM
If it's going to have a 13" screen, that makes the MacBook ultra-portable already, doesn't it?

There are CNET's criteria for an "ultra-portable laptop":

- Weight: 4 pounds or less
- Size: Less than 1 inch thick
- Display: Smaller than 14 inches (diagonal)

I guess the MacBook's weight and thickness are right on the edge of that.

igazza
Nov 12, 2007, 10:57 AM
i think it be 11 or 12 :apple:

koobcamuk
Nov 12, 2007, 10:58 AM
The thing is, I am in the middle of convincing myself that I need a MacBook Pro. I'll want an ultraportable, but if it's not got the same power as a MBP (or close) then I'll have to think twice. I wonder if it'll be touch screen.

pimentoLoaf
Nov 12, 2007, 10:59 AM
Apple should buy Palm -- this is definitely the PDA killer to beat all PDA killers. :eek:

nagromme
Nov 12, 2007, 11:00 AM
Well... if the only difference between it and the MacBook is the weight and thickness, I really hope they don't make it a new product line, but rather replace the MacBook with it. Apple's product line is getting pretty wide as it is.

Really small--and still having Pro power, such as GPU--can carry a price. Flash storage might be a factor too. I don't expect this model to be cheap (other ultrathin laptops sure aren't). In which case, the current MacBook may be expected to remain, as the low-end consumer offering. Just like the 12" PowerBook and 12" iBook co-existed.

jockmock
Nov 12, 2007, 11:00 AM
The thing is, I am in the middle of convincing myself that I need a MacBook Pro. I'll want an ultraportable, but if it's not got the same power as a MBP (or close) then I'll have to think twice. I wonder if it'll be touch screen.

no way it's going to have the performance of a macbook pro.. even the macbook will win

happydude
Nov 12, 2007, 11:00 AM
Completely right. Sony makes what are hands-down the most impressive ultraportables on the market, but you virtually never see them in the wild because they are extremely expensive. I think if Apple prices this new machine of theirs at $1499 it will sell like crazy. At $1999 it will sell alright, and anything over that and it will hardly sell at all. They could conceivably price it as low as $999, since it sounds like it will use standard laptop components, but at that price you'd have to expect to have hardly any disk space (like, say, 8gb).

The 12" PB came out at $1,599 for their base specs (here (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/stats/powerbook_g4_1.33_12.html)). That to me would be the perfect price for this one again since 3+ years later with inflation and whatnot wouldn't be unreasonable to keep price the same. just above macbooks, just below macbook pros . . . i'm waiting . . . !!! :apple::D:apple::D:apple:

grappler
Nov 12, 2007, 11:02 AM
There's another even more ultraportable laptop going on sale today:
http://www.laptopgiving.org/en/give-one-get-one.php

koobcamuk
Nov 12, 2007, 11:04 AM
no way it's going to have the performance of a macbook pro.. even the macbook will win

Too true. In that case, I will buy the new MacBook Pro and use my iPhone as the fabled 'ultra portable'. I have never been able to send email, read pdfs and so forth on a Mac that goes into my pocket :)

A MBP is needed for me to break into the design market (photo, architecture etc)

I was all set for an ultraportable, but I don't think it can be someone's main machine.

Does anyone else agree that this can't be a main machine? Maybe for a rich home user...?

happydude
Nov 12, 2007, 11:04 AM
There's another even more ultraportable laptop going on sale today:
http://www.laptopgiving.org/en/give-one-get-one.php

that is such an amazing story and product! wish apple could have gotten in on it in some way or another!!

slicecom
Nov 12, 2007, 11:06 AM
13" screen is too big. 10 or 11" would be ideal.

Chaszmyr
Nov 12, 2007, 11:06 AM
that is such an amazing story and product! wish apple could have gotten in on it in some way or another!!

Apple offered OSX to them for free, and the company decided they'd rather go with their own open OS.

kungming2
Nov 12, 2007, 11:12 AM
Without an optical drive Apple will have to offer Leopard, iLife et al as a digital download right?

Future versions of iLife maybe, but not Leopard. It'd come pre-installed! ;)

Downloading an application suite is a lot easier than downloading an operating system..

plumbingandtech
Nov 12, 2007, 11:12 AM
WOOOHOOO no OPTICAL!!!!

Yes. Good move IMO.

One can always plug in an external if you need it.

Other then installing OS X, I can't remember the last time I needed one.


:)

grappler
Nov 12, 2007, 11:12 AM
Apple offered OSX to them for free, and the company decided they'd rather go with their own open OS.

That's understandable. But companies can still get in on it. Microsoft is making windows run on it. The foundation is determined to put laptops in the hands of third world kids - not necessarily the laptop designed by them.

I'm getting one simply because I'm very curious to play around with it, I might find some cool uses for it, it doesn't break the bank, and I sure don't mind subsidizing another one for a good cause.

johnnybluejeans
Nov 12, 2007, 11:14 AM
I heard that not only is it an ultra portable, but it is also a G5 powerbook.

RichP
Nov 12, 2007, 11:14 AM
This seems like an interesting development. I would imagine it would maintain something around a 13" screen. This allows it to be a machine with a footprint smaller than a standard sheet of paper, and allows for a relatively full-size keyboard. With a much smaller screen bezel than the macbook, the overall machine will appear smaller even if it uses the same panel.

I think it will probably be one of the less-powerful mac portables though. Probably a ultra-low power dual core chip with integrated GPU. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with that.

I wonder what is "special" about the trackpad. Assuming this thing isn't a multi-touch tablet sort of machine, there is no particular need why it needs unique cursor control (why the other mac portables do not)

MacTheSpoon
Nov 12, 2007, 11:15 AM
I hope this rumor is true. I know it's going to be massively expensive but I will buy one for sure!

dadudeness
Nov 12, 2007, 11:16 AM
sounds interesting but nothing for me. and is it really intelligent to take away more cooling-space? we'll see.

i used to go with a 12" widescreen acer sub-notebook with a weight of ~1.5kg and a screen-res of 1280x800. when the battery died, i bought my new 13" macbook and i'm absolutely satisfied.
i think there aint no big difference between both sizes and i love having an internal optical device instead of the stupid acer's firewire thing. i never had the external one around when i needed it...

Airforce
Nov 12, 2007, 11:20 AM
Pass.

The fact that 64GB SSD go for $1500+ alone makes me think this is bunk. Anything less than 60GB on a laptop these days is a no go with me. Without an optical drive and such little space? No, no way.

EagerDragon
Nov 12, 2007, 11:21 AM
For power it may use Intel 8086, LOL http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/8086/MANUF-Intel.html

LaDirection
Nov 12, 2007, 11:22 AM
Without an optical drive, how can you perform a software restore?

I'm sure Apple will push Time Machine as the way to go to format your laptop and so an external HD will prabably be required in some way.

CaptainCaveMann
Nov 12, 2007, 11:24 AM
Sounds really cool, BUT, what if it only has a 20gb hard drive? That would suck. They can only fit so many of those flash sticks in the case. :rolleyes:

supremedesigner
Nov 12, 2007, 11:25 AM
I smell rental movies :)

macdim
Nov 12, 2007, 11:25 AM
I'm wondering how long it took Apple to modify the older MacBooks to transition to Santa Rosa. I know the design is somewhat different interanally (e.g. fans, exhaust holes), but with all the time spent doing that, would they really replace the current MacBook with this. I don't think so. If it does have solid state storage, it'll fetch a pretty penny...

Over Achiever
Nov 12, 2007, 11:26 AM
Sounds really cool, BUT, what if it only has a 20gb hard drive? That would suck. They can only fit so many of those flash sticks in the case. :rolleyes:

They have 64 GB NAND drives out now, and 32 GB is becoming increasingly common. I doubt they'll release it with 20 GB.

13" screen is too big. 10 or 11" would be ideal.
I think 5" is ideal ... my OQO fits in my pocket, and it runs a full XP/Vista, Office, etc. Now that is ultraportable =)

boss1
Nov 12, 2007, 11:26 AM
So basically this is the return of iBook. however much slimmer, and with touchscreen like features in the touchpad?

I'm not really moved by this announcement if true. If it's a sub note book and doesn't come with a sub price to match then the market for it is very small. This is what the iBook suffered from. The price didn't justify the specs at all. So my question is what makes this product different?




However if the speculation is way off target and this turns out to be a no keyboard, touchscreen only keyboard .... tablet like portable then I might see what all the fuss is about.


Appleinsider describes this product as "...design long under development by Apple Inc." surely a tablet like full touchscreen surface laptop would fit the description better than, "Apple is re releasing an iBook again."

Thataboy
Nov 12, 2007, 11:27 AM
Oh, 13"? Forget it then. Flash + LED + 13" = $1499 (I'd wager).

I am looking for something around 10". And something in the $799-$899 range. An unreasonable expectation, I realize!

My gut says they will brand it Macbook Nano, and my gut further says they are going to combine the AppleTV and Mac Mini lines into a Mac Nano -- AppleTV sized, HDMI, meant for the living room but is an actual computer that can be used elsewhere.

ntrigue
Nov 12, 2007, 11:27 AM
HDMI/DVI out and we're talking! Don't look past a $69 external superdrive packaged with the laptop. I will be buying this at launch. Permitting it is as capable as the 2.2 MBP and RAM is upgradable; the deal is done. I will pay $2000 without hesitation. I had my eye on the Toshiba R200 before I got my 2.33gHz MBP.

supremedesigner
Nov 12, 2007, 11:27 AM
I smell rental movies :) as well as digital downloads such as downloadable movies and games

Edit: please ignore my first posting . Did not know it posted itself

MacHiavelli
Nov 12, 2007, 11:28 AM
What's the diff from the new spec to a MB?

thechidz
Nov 12, 2007, 11:28 AM
hmm.....

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm:)

Unspeaked
Nov 12, 2007, 11:29 AM
Completely right. Sony makes what are hands-down the most impressive ultraportables on the market, but you virtually never see them in the wild because they are extremely expensive. I think if Apple prices this new machine of theirs at $1499 it will sell like crazy. At $1999 it will sell alright, and anything over that and it will hardly sell at all. They could conceivably price it as low as $999, since it sounds like it will use standard laptop components, but at that price you'd have to expect to have hardly any disk space (like, say, 8gb).

Assuming this has a reasonable amount of storage (say, more than 32GB) and based on their previous pricing strategies, Apple has given us every reason to suspect this will cost more than the current hard drive based MacBook Pros, so we're looking at $2,000+

Manatee
Nov 12, 2007, 11:29 AM
I really want this product. A 64GB drive will be kind of tight, though.

I currently carry a Sony TX (when I'm not carrying my MacBook Pro), and the weight, size, and battery life are great. The performance is awful. I'm sure Apple will do much better. I won't mind losing the optical drive.

I hope the Apple product is super slim, sturdy like the MacBook Pro, and uses a tiny AC adapter. Keep it under $3k, and I (gadget geek) will buy it.

A 3GHz+ Penryn-based MacBook Pro would be nice too. :)

berkleeboy210
Nov 12, 2007, 11:31 AM
I smell rental movies :)

One More Thing....

rossgumbrell
Nov 12, 2007, 11:34 AM
rename macbook to: MacBook Classic
Introduce: MacBook Nano
Change MBP trackpad to an iphone screen: Macbook Touch

lol

.....is possible!!
:apple::apple::apple:

Cloudane
Nov 12, 2007, 11:37 AM
I'm starting to wonder whether this kind of rumour is generated from actual leaks etc, or whether it happens the other way round: the rumour mill comes up with all these great ideas, and Apple implement them :D

In which case, yeah I'd expect them by 2008. By then they'll have put something together to meet the expectations of the fans and media :)

I honestly do think this is how the iPod Touch came about... the original intention being to have the iPhone as the high end iPod (getting better over the years in capacity etc) but the rumour mill was so loud with the idea of the Touch that they had to knock one together!

Unspeaked
Nov 12, 2007, 11:37 AM
Also, let me chime in: I think this would be too close to the MacBook's size and weight, even if it's a lot thinner and a little lighter.

The people clamoring for an ultra portable are those that want something *really* small, like no larger than a 10" screen. Something that can be thrown around almost as easily as a cell phone.

That doesn't mean I don't think this will be released, it just means I don't think it will have as much appeal to the Mac public (and the target audience Apple is going after) as something much smaller.

After you factor in the lost sales due to A) folks turned off by the performance loss B) folks turned off by the price C) folks that just don't think it's a big enough jump in portability from the current offerings, I don't think you're left with much of a market.

sigamy
Nov 12, 2007, 11:39 AM
My crazy theory about the "strange trackpad":

The machine contains a hollowed out location, near the trackpad for an iPod/iPhone dock. The iPod/iPhone would lay down flush with the notebook. The notebook would then be able to read the contents of the device and play media on the iPod in full screen mode, without using internal storage.

Take this a step further and maybe the machine is nothing but a dumb terminal for the iPhone or iPod touch. You actually use multitouch on the iPhone and it appears on the 13" screen. This would be sort of like Palm's Folio...which wasn't a good idea but maybe Apple could pull it off.

Sportty
Nov 12, 2007, 11:41 AM
The Mac Duo was on of the best machines built -- an ultra-portable, with a based station that houses expansion cards, hard drives, etc.

brandon6684
Nov 12, 2007, 11:42 AM
13" just doesn't seem ultra portable to me. Sure my MacBook is more portable than a 15.4" laptop, but for an ultra portable, I'd want at most a 10" or 11" screen. Ideally smaller would be better, and I'm thinking about an Asus Eee PC as an ultra-portable.

thechidz
Nov 12, 2007, 11:43 AM
My crazy theory about the "strange trackpad":

The machine contains a hollowed out location, near the trackpad for an iPod/iPhone dock. The iPod/iPhone would lay down flush with the notebook. The notebook would then be able to read the contents of the device and play media on the iPod in full screen mode, without using internal storage.

Take this a step further and maybe the machine is nothing but a dumb terminal for the iPhone or iPod touch. You actually use multitouch on the iPhone and it appears on the 13" screen. This would be sort of like Palm's Folio...which wasn't a good idea but maybe Apple could pull it off.

I dont think so. It would suck trying to look at the larger screen while typing on a touch screen I think...

jackc
Nov 12, 2007, 11:43 AM
So does this mean no aluminum MacBooks (not just at MWSF but in the foreseeable future)?

Macmadant
Nov 12, 2007, 11:43 AM
I prey to god this has a decent dedicated graphics card, otherwise i'm going to go and cry

DaBrain
Nov 12, 2007, 11:44 AM
Not necessarily. It may be required that you have another computer that you hook it up to to install software. Or sell an external optical drive.

I can see it now: An Optional COMBO Drive--))) :D

sayagain
Nov 12, 2007, 11:45 AM
OK - (maybe) Canceling my ThinkPad :apple: X61 order (was to be hackintosh'd on arrival)

I have been waiting for an ultraportable since Q4-2006: http://www.macosrumors.com/20061210-1A.html

Obsessively refreshing macrumors.com ever since :eek:

wongulous
Nov 12, 2007, 11:45 AM
Either Apple is going to make their own SSDs from their iPod-enabled NAND supplies, or this thing is going to cost as much as a decked-out 15" MBP or a 17" MBP. Samsung's 64GB SSD is roughly a GRAND. That's $1000. Screen, casing, CPU, components, etc will be on top of that. And people on here (uninformed pipedreamers, as per usual these days) are using their novice guesswork to estimate that it'll be in the $1000-1500 range. it's priced at roughly $14-18/gb (and since they are not available to consumers, some websites are reselling at an outrageous cost of $50-75/gb), compared to about $1-1.50/gb with magnetic platter HDDs. Do some research before you post in response to what is a great and well-researched article. PLEASE.

plumbingandtech
Nov 12, 2007, 11:46 AM
Without an optical drive, how can you perform a software restore?

I'm sure Apple will push Time Machine as the way to go to format your laptop and so an external HD will prabably be required in some way.

This should be made a sticky.

Optical drives come in EXTERNAL forms too.

FW/USB2.

timmillwood
Nov 12, 2007, 11:47 AM
I want one!! I just hope they are not stupidly expensive like all other little laptops.

louden
Nov 12, 2007, 11:47 AM
Make it into basically, an larger iPhone tablet:

- use something very similar to the new BT Apple Keyboard as part of the new laptop. The keyboard would be just a keyboard - the screen - more like a tablet/iMac, only small and thin
- figure out some way to make it detachable, and help wtih boot up of the pc while potentially wirelessly connected to the screen
- make it seem like a laptop when the keyboard is attached
- make it seem like a tablet when I'm using multitouch on the web.

- you've just made a much better tablet than anything toshiba and ms ever did!

- Ideally - make it as small as the bt keyboard itself (7-8 inch screen -raise the resolution), yet as powerful as a mac - if you do that, I'd probably carry it with me wherever I went.

sigamy
Nov 12, 2007, 11:47 AM
I'm picturing both keyboard and the iPhone dock. Then you'd have a hybrid computer/human interaction of keyboard and multi-touch.

Remember when laptops didn't have built in pointing devices? Getting a laptop with a trackball, trackpad or IBM little erase thing was a big deal when they first came out.


I dont think so. It would suck trying to look at the larger screen while typing on a touch screen I think...

louden
Nov 12, 2007, 11:48 AM
Either Apple is going to make their own SSDs from their iPod-enabled NAND supplies, or this thing is going to cost as much as a decked-out 15" MBP or a 17" MBP. Samsung's 64GB SSD is roughly a GRAND. That's $1000. Screen, casing, CPU, components, etc will be on top of that. And people on here (uninformed pipedreamers, as per usual these days) are using their novice guesswork to estimate that it'll be in the $1000-1500 range. it's priced at roughly $14-18/gb (and since they are not available to consumers, some websites are reselling at an outrageous cost of $50-75/gb), compared to about $1-1.50/gb with magnetic platter HDDs. Do some research before you post in response to what is a great and well-researched article. PLEASE.

Apple could promise the volume to help bring that price down...

anthonyb
Nov 12, 2007, 11:48 AM
This is really all going to come down to price. Considering that flash memory is so expensive, where are they going to draw the line? $1600 or cheaper .. or im not biting. My MBP fits well into my backpack and I dont think this is going to be small enough to fit in a pocket, so whats the point? Considering that it will have flash memory, it would be good for battery consumption, but wouldn't the battery be somewhat smaller as well?

The trackpad comments are a little overboard. Whats the point in making a sub-notebook if you are going to put something "revolutionary" into it? I mean there are room for advances but something like this is just going to add hundreds of dollars onto the final price tag because of the wow factor.

Unspeaked
Nov 12, 2007, 11:50 AM
I prey to god this has a decent dedicated graphics card, otherwise i'm going to go and cry

I would guess that would depend on if the product is part of the MacBook or MacBook Pro branch of the Apple family.

Of course, there could always be two versions... though from these early rumors, it appears this would be a "pro" model, so your wish might come true.

escapepod
Nov 12, 2007, 11:50 AM
Macbook Touch.

Touch come to Mac, Spring 2008

Manatee
Nov 12, 2007, 11:52 AM
Also, let me chime in: I think this would be too close to the MacBook's size and weight, even if it's a lot thinner and a little lighter.

"Half the weight of a MacBook Pro" is much lighter than the MacBook. The reason I've never been interested in the MacBook is that it is only 1lb lighter than the MBP. This new machine should be around 2.8 lbs -- about the same as the Sony TX and the Toshiba Portege.

To me, the existing MacBooks and MBP are already thin enough to hide in my brief case, but if this thing is close to 0.5", it will be a really easy fit -- even if the relatively large screen gives it a big footprint.

After you factor in the lost sales due to A) folks turned off by the performance loss B) folks turned off by the price C) folks that just don't think it's a big enough jump in portability from the current offerings, I don't think you're left with much of a market.

I am concerned about performance. They can't make it snail-slow (like the Sony TX/TZ) or it will be frustrating to use.

I'm not too concerned about the price. The Sony, in a decent configuration, is around $2500, so I'd be willing to pay that for a well-engineered Apple product.

And the portability -- if it is under 3lbs, that will be a big difference from the 4.6lb MacBook. If they make it head-turningly thin, that will really differentiate it from other subnotebooks in the market.

I think it will be a niche product. It would have to be around $1500 to go mass-market, and I don't think they could produce a suitably cool product for that price -- especially with SSD.

brepublican
Nov 12, 2007, 11:52 AM
Good, will be great for students all over the land, but I doubt it would be cheap.

The lack of an optical drive doesnt exactly make it ideal for students. Watching DVD's and importing audio CD's is a big part of a typical student's computer use. And it def wont be cheap.

it's about time. though . . . 13"? why not 12"?! "subnotebook" should be smaller than the current 13" macbook IMHO

Exactly. What I want is a PowerBook with an intel processor. Added bonus if its thinner and lighter. But for me, its gotta be 12" alu with same form factor as PB.

My perfect machine: take my 12" PB, put in a 2.2 C2D Extreme, atleast an X1600 w 256 MB, up to 4 GB RAM, 200 GB HDD and I'm on board. But thats just pipe dreams, it wont happen :p

koobcamuk
Nov 12, 2007, 11:52 AM
Everyone is going to be so disappointed. Just reading the comments above makes me think how much people are going to complain... :rolleyes:

plumbingandtech
Nov 12, 2007, 11:53 AM
Whats the point in making a sub-notebook if you are going to put something "revolutionary" into it? I mean there are room for advances but something like this is just going to add hundreds of dollars onto the final price tag because of the wow factor.

Who says a more advanced trackpad would be that much more expensive? Seems like with that item, you have some more cost but not a lot and you let software do all the magic whitch adds almost nothing to the cost of the final product.

Manatee
Nov 12, 2007, 11:54 AM
Macbook Touch.

How about a MacBook Shuffle?

You can't control what program it runs when you start it up. It picks one at random. :)

samuraikiss
Nov 12, 2007, 11:54 AM
Everyone is going to be so disappointed. Just reading the comments above makes me think how much people are going to complain...

You just have to keep praying. I certainly am. Although if the rumored update doesn't occur, my year-old MacBook will still appear to be brand new.

billystlyes
Nov 12, 2007, 11:54 AM
Two words. Kasper Jade. He is never accurate with his predictions.

Avatar74
Nov 12, 2007, 11:55 AM
Take this a step further and maybe the machine is nothing but a dumb terminal for the iPhone or iPod touch. You actually use multitouch on the iPhone and it appears on the 13" screen. This would be sort of like Palm's Folio...which wasn't a good idea but maybe Apple could pull it off.

Something like what the eMate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMate_300) was to the Newton MessagePad?

:D

P.S. Yes, geeks will note eMate wasn't so much a docking device as it was a watered-down Newton MessagePad with a keyboard in a clamshell case... but you get the idea...

Manatee
Nov 12, 2007, 11:57 AM
You know, one feature that I'm really waiting for in a subnotebook is "Instant On".

I use this sort of computer for carrying around to meetings and such, and even as quickly as a Mac boots, when someone wants info, or I want to quickly capture something that's going on, I want to pull out my little computer and use it right now, while the idea is fresh. If I want a "waiting period", I'll buy a gun. :)

Icarus73
Nov 12, 2007, 11:58 AM
If it's priced higher than a macbook, i won't buy it. Ask GM what happens when you release a product that costs more and does less (EV-1). It doesn't sell.

SwiftLives
Nov 12, 2007, 12:00 PM
Methinks that rather than a portable productivity (or gaming) computer, this is going to be more of a portable media/internet device.

Hmmm. Experiencing some bondi-blue iMac deja vu here.

macjay
Nov 12, 2007, 12:00 PM
If it's priced higher than a macbook, i won't buy it. Ask GM what happens when you release a product that costs more and does less (EV-1). It doesn't sell.

I don't think Apple will have ads for their new computer that are akin to a horror movie (see "Who Killed the Electric Car").

Small White Car
Nov 12, 2007, 12:02 PM
You really have to think of this as an "iPhone Pro" (without the phone).

The point of having a super-small portable is convenience. In order to get that, you're going to make sacrafices in drive size, computer speed, and other things like optical drives.

In other words, NO ONE would buy this as a primary computer. Thus, any complaintas about optical drives or total drive space is way off base. Does the iPhone need an optical drive? Of course not. This thing will work the same way. You put software on it by syncing it to your real computer.

So saying things like "this will be good for poor students" makes no sense. Maybe a student would buy one of these, but it's not going to save them money! In addition to needing a full "real" computer, remember that making things smaller IS HARDER AND THUS MORE EXPENSIVE.

I don't know how many times that has to be said, but the engineering and manufacturing techniques that go into shrinking things is a big part of the price. In other words, expect this to cost THE SAME as the current Macbooks but with slower/smaller specs than the Macbook.

People will buy it because they need something light when traveling. They will NOT buy it to save money or to replace their current laptop.

koobcamuk
Nov 12, 2007, 12:02 PM
If it's priced higher than a macbook, i won't buy it. Ask GM what happens when you release a product that costs more and does less (EV-1). It doesn't sell.

Why is the PowerBook 12" holding price better than any other notebook?

Of course it can't be cheaper than the MacBook. You can't put smaller (better) technology into a notebook computer and expect it to be cheaper! :eek:

Icarus73
Nov 12, 2007, 12:02 PM
I don't think Apple will have ads for their new computer that are akin to a horror movie (see "Who Killed the Electric Car").

I have watched "Who Killed The Electric Car" and concluded that it was probably a little bit of everyone involved. My point stands though. The EV-1 did less and cost more. and this subnotebook would cost more and have lower specs without an optical drive.

rockosmodurnlif
Nov 12, 2007, 12:06 PM
All I have to say about this rumor is ... again?

This should be made a sticky.

Optical drives come in EXTERNAL forms too.

FW/USB2.

With external power sources. How fun.

Everyone is going to be so disappointed. Just reading the comments above makes me think how much people are going to complain... :rolleyes:

They're going to complain whether it gets released or not ... so there's no escaping the complaining.

backtothefuture
Nov 12, 2007, 12:07 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if there is no optical drive, then there would be no chance to upload music from CDs or play DVDs on the device, without using an external drive/computer? To me this seems like a bad idea, but at the same time, I can see how it would work with media being so easy to download now.
Wow- this a turning point. Suddenly playing DVDs on your pc is old-fashioned.
If this new Mac comes out, which I hope it does, I also hope that Mac updates its other devices to be BluRay compatible, or even better BluRay & HD DVD compatible. This technology is the only thing holding me back from buying a new computer.

OldTimey
Nov 12, 2007, 12:08 PM
Without an optical drive Apple will have to offer Leopard, iLife et al as a digital download right?

maybe it will have a cf slot or something, and apple will include a restore flash card with leopard and ilife on it.

aswitcher
Nov 12, 2007, 12:10 PM
Sounds perfect.

I am only worried about a possible lack of a video out port and the price. I really hope the NAND HDD equivalent doesn't make this super expensive,

Icarus73
Nov 12, 2007, 12:10 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if there is no optical drive, then there would be no chance to upload music from CDs or play DVDs on the device, without using an external drive/computer? To me this seems like a bad idea, but at the same time, I can see how it would work with media being so easy to download now.
Wow- this a turning point. Suddenly playing DVDs on your pc is old-fashioned.
If this new Mac comes out, which I hope it does, I also hope that Mac updates its other devices to be BluRay compatible, or even better BluRay & HD DVD compatible. This technology is the only thing holding me back from buying a new computer.

Well, if people can't purchase CDs and rip them to their notebook, it's suddenly more convenient to use iTunes. and I think we can all agree that apple doesn't have a problem with encouraging people to use iTunes.

oh, and for the "less for more" conversation. I think I should add that I'm not saying it's realistically possible to offer a 64GB flash HD and the rest of the computer for cheaper than a macbook. I'm just saying, I wouldn't buy it for more than that cost. It's a personal thing. I'd LOVE to have an iMac and a subnotebook, but for now I think i'll just have to settle for the iMac alone.

Antares
Nov 12, 2007, 12:14 PM
I hope this turns out to be true. If so, I am definitely buying one.

segfaultdotorg
Nov 12, 2007, 12:15 PM
I hope it's not a tablet. I want a real keyboard on my ultraportable.

p0intblank
Nov 12, 2007, 12:17 PM
Not to sound negative, but please don't get too excited about this. Sure it could happen, but it's only a rumor. It would be nice, though. :)

thejadedmonkey
Nov 12, 2007, 12:18 PM
With external power sources. How fun.

USB and Firewire are both bus powered. No external power supply necessary.

I can see a 13" screen, that syncs to a desktop much like an iPod does. It'll be announced MWSF, with a shipping date of feb '08.

Oh, and it'll use the same SDK as the iPhone.

that would be siiiick. Give it 20gb, sub $1000. I'd like that, a lot.

I should really stop dreaming... :p

plumbingandtech
Nov 12, 2007, 12:19 PM
USB and Firewire are both bus powered. No external power supply necessary.


Heh. Blows that comment out the park.

With external power sources. How fun.

NOT having to carry around the weight and extra height of an included DVD drive that is NOT used by MOST people MOST of the time.

More FUN!!!!

ParisParamus
Nov 12, 2007, 12:23 PM
When I read this post, my immediate thought was that theres not enough of a market for a thinner MacBook, and that this is an Apple Ministry of Disinformation cover for a more Newton/PDA'ish device. Is anyone out there really hankering for a lighter MacBook?

By the way, that is the consensus view on the Post-G4 MacBook chicklet-style keyboards? I've never used one, and they look like a step backward to me...

twoodcc
Nov 12, 2007, 12:25 PM
great news (if it's true). but it won't be cheap

Icarus73
Nov 12, 2007, 12:27 PM
When I read this post, my immediate thought was that theres not enough of a market for a thinner MacBook, and that this is an Apple Ministry of Disinformation cover for a more Newton/PDA'ish device. Is anyone out there really hankering for a lighter MacBook?

By the way, that is the consensus view on the Post-G4 MacBook chicklet-style keyboards? I've never used one, and they look like a step backward to me...


i think you're spot on about the "who really needs a lighter macbook".

I mainly just want something to take with me to the coffee shop to use on homework and such. Main computing would be on an iMac. If they made the macbook cheaper, it would work perfect for this purpose. I just need something cheap and more portable than an iMac. I dont think my iBook G4 is going to hold out much longer.

cazlar
Nov 12, 2007, 12:32 PM
This sounds perfect to me. Unfortuately, too perfect. I'd just about broken down and was going to replace my aging 1Ghz 12"PB with either a MB or MBP in the next few weeks (probably at Black Friday if there's a deal). Now I don't know what to do. My 12" is still going strong, I just need to update as its way too slow at encoding videos for my iPhone.

My other option is to just get a refurb Mac mini to tide me over as an encoding workhorse/media centre, then buy this if it does turn up in January...

In regard to NAND storage, could they do a hybrid approach with the OS etc stored on flash (say 16GB) and a HDD for the rest (~120-160GB)?

shu82
Nov 12, 2007, 12:36 PM
Bringing back the duo! With thumb drives and wireless-N, we don't really "need" optical drives anymore. But I do see an optional dock with a Superdrive and 2 500gb HDs set up in hardware raid.

As for a "wierd trackpad" How about a widescreen one? Perhaps backlit and a little programmable? But that is a little out there.

celloman
Nov 12, 2007, 12:36 PM
oh noooo. i hope it has an optical drie... plzzzzzz

HowEver
Nov 12, 2007, 12:40 PM
I predict a smaller form factor than 13". Otherwise, there is no reason to lose the optical drive, if they do.

Perhaps from now on instead of obtaining system disks on DVD they will come on flash USB/FireWire drives instead.

CDs and DVDs will join floppies and 8-tracks and LPs and VCDs and 33s.

Macmadant
Nov 12, 2007, 12:44 PM
Actually, if it does get released i won't be buying one, no optical drive? , and for those people who say we don't need one anymore, just about every piece of important software is distributed on optical storage, how would a downloaded operating system work ?, you'd surely have to have it on a disc in order to start up from it. and also when i think oh i'll play a game whilst sat comfortably down stairs, you'd have to find a external optical drive, plug it in to the macbook, then plug it in to the wall, what a pain in the arse, sure it can be done, but convenient, i think not

50548
Nov 12, 2007, 12:47 PM
I predict a smaller form factor than 13". Otherwise, there is no reason to lose the optical drive, if they do.

Perhaps from now on instead of obtaining system disks on DVD they will come on flash USB/FireWire drives instead.

CDs and DVDs will join floppies and 8-tracks and LPs and VCDs and 33s.

Exactly. Apple will LEAD again the trend in terms of phasing out obsolete things...this was the case for floppies and will be the case for CDs and DVDs. On my iMac, discs are used only for 3 things:

- ripping music and videos I have;
- backing up a few files;
- playing a couple of games that require the CD to be there.

This ultraportable will SURELY blow out the minds of customers and catapult Apple to the first place in the IT industry; in other words, it's gonna be one of the last nails in Microsoft's coffin...I WILL buy it the moment it's released...GO APPLE!

Cinch
Nov 12, 2007, 12:47 PM
USB and Firewire are both bus powered. No external power supply necessary.

I can see a 13" screen, that syncs to a desktop much like an iPod does. It'll be announced MWSF, with a shipping date of feb '08.

Oh, and it'll use the same SDK as the iPhone.

that would be siiiick. Give it 20gb, sub $1000. I'd like that, a lot.

I should really stop dreaming... :p

Stop hallucinating man!

You want to buy a computer/device that has a 13 inch only to find out that you need a separate computer to sync it to? Yeah..a plausible idea indeed!:D

Cinch

Avatar74
Nov 12, 2007, 12:52 PM
Bringing back the duo! With thumb drives and wireless-N, we don't really "need" optical drives anymore. But I do see an optional dock with a Superdrive and 2 500gb HDs set up in hardware raid.

As for a "wierd trackpad" How about a widescreen one? Perhaps backlit and a little programmable? But that is a little out there.

I wonder if they're referring to a patent Apple filed a while ago whereby the trackpad was backlit in a way that gave the user visual feedback to confirm what type of command was being executed (e.g. scroll, right click, left click, etc.). This type of feedback could be used in conjunction with multitouch to provide you a confirmation of any number of multi-finger gestured operations.

Additionally there's the obvious possibility of using capacitance sensing to differentiate between a right click and a left click on one continuous trackpad surface. The visual confirmation could then flash the left side or right side to provide confirmation of the corresponding user input.

kyeblue
Nov 12, 2007, 12:53 PM
Finally a reason to part with my powerbook.

Cinch
Nov 12, 2007, 12:53 PM
Exactly. Apple will LEAD again the trend in terms of phasing out obsolete things...this was the case for floppies and will be the case for CDs and DVDs. On my iMac, discs are used only for 3 things:

- ripping music and videos I have;
- backing up a few files;
- playing a couple of games that require the CD to be there.

This ultraportable will SURELY blow out the minds of customers and catapult Apple to the first place in the IT industry; in other words, it's gonna be one of the last nails in Microsoft's coffin...I WILL buy it the moment it's released...GO APPLE!

To further you points

-why rip music and videos when you can download them much faster
-why use CD for back up while a cheap 160GB external drive will do just fine
-games not made anymore but still on CDs, okay, I concede on this point. I rather play Moon Patrol on my Commodore 128...oops I'm revealing my age!

Cinch

EricNau
Nov 12, 2007, 12:54 PM
13" screen seems rather large for an ultra portable computer - I would have expected 11-12".

I'm also curious to see how no optical drive works out.

Icarus73
Nov 12, 2007, 12:54 PM
Stop hallucinating man!

You want to buy a computer/device that has a 13 inch only to find out that you need a separate computer to sync it to? Yeah..a plausible idea indeed!:D

Cinch

haha yeah, i dont know. that sounds like a literally "retarded" computer.

boss1
Nov 12, 2007, 12:57 PM
Stop hallucinating man!

You want to buy a computer/device that has a 13 inch only to find out that you need a separate computer to sync it to? Yeah..a plausible idea indeed!:D

Cinch

I really don't think his vision is too far fetched.

I do however think that it makes sense of the decision not to include an optical drive.

Besides the whole 13" thing and the "strange touchpad" references are not concrete data...to me at least. ultra portable needs more uniqueness for Apple to brand it as "Ultra portable". otherwise it's just an ibook for 2008.

joeshell383
Nov 12, 2007, 12:59 PM
Without an optical drive Apple will have to offer Leopard, iLife et al as a digital download right?

I'd like to see it on a "stick" flash drive. Also, you used "et al" incorrectly. You should have used "etc."

50548
Nov 12, 2007, 01:00 PM
To further you points

-why rip music and videos when you can download them much faster
-why use CD for back up while a cheap 160GB external drive will do just fine
-games not made anymore but still on CDs, okay, I concede on this point. I rather play Moon Patrol on my Commodore 128...oops I'm revealing my age!

Cinch

Better yet, just give us a tiny external drive for these tasks if necessary...pretty much NOBODY needs an optical drive on the road...I can't wait to see this new marvel from Apple...it's gonna dominate the market and redefine what a subnotebook is, for sure.

corywoolf
Nov 12, 2007, 01:06 PM
They need to make it smaller than 13" to attract the crowd that loved the 12" PowerBook form factor.

scienide09
Nov 12, 2007, 01:08 PM
Now I'm glad I didn't jump at an updated Macbook. I was wavering anyway, and don't need it now.

Will be most interested to see what happens with the GPUs, drive sspace, and price.

I don't see the big problem with no optical drive and having to connect to another computer. After all, don't most of us already have other computers? To me, an ultra-portable is something you use on-the-go, like a PDA, that can be synced with a more powerful computer that stays safe at home.

iPhil
Nov 12, 2007, 01:08 PM
I think 5" is ideal ... my OQO fits in my pocket, and it runs a full XP/Vista, Office, etc. Now that is ultraportable =)


What brand is the OQO UPMC ?? :o

Buschmaster
Nov 12, 2007, 01:08 PM
Maybe they will package an external optical drive with it...

That would be a great way around all of this. It would keep those happy who feel an optical drive is a waste of space and it would keep the people happy who need(/want) it.

The last group of people are the people who don't think it should be an extra cost on the price since every other laptop comes with the optical drive. So you need to keep them happy by packaging it with the computer at no extra cost.

Sannekita
Nov 12, 2007, 01:11 PM
What is this sub-notebook capable of? is it just for textwriting and stuff?
I wish they'd release a new macbook pro...

Vanilla
Nov 12, 2007, 01:12 PM
When I read this post, my immediate thought was that theres not enough of a market for a thinner MacBook, and that this is an Apple Ministry of Disinformation cover for a more Newton/PDA'ish device. Is anyone out there really hankering for a lighter MacBook?

By the way, that is the consensus view on the Post-G4 MacBook chicklet-style keyboards? I've never used one, and they look like a step backward to me...

Just think of all the business road warriors out there armed with their IBM/Lenova X60 Thinkpads, laptop dock complete with optical drive on their office desk. The X60 is a great, great machine...light, rugged, superb keyboard & compact.

If Apple build a super-light laptop that's rugged, compact, fast, with a great keyboard, built-in camera for video chats and a phenomenal OS that can run bootcamp/parallels they would have a significant business market to tap into here IMO.

Vanilla
PS: The MacBook/iMac keyboards are brilliant..truly.

MrT8064
Nov 12, 2007, 01:13 PM
could the specs be:

2/2.2ghz Core 2 Duo
1gb ram
10 or 13" LED screens
1.2 or 1.6 kg (depending on screen size)
64GB (128gb to come wwdc)
no optical drive
2cm thin
large gesture touch pad (pinching ect for photos - not a screen)

my ideas, any comments

psychofreak
Nov 12, 2007, 01:14 PM
What like the iPhone that was rumoured for years.

And Apple's switch to Intel...

corywoolf
Nov 12, 2007, 01:15 PM
USB and Firewire are both bus powered. No external power supply necessary.

I can see a 13" screen, that syncs to a desktop much like an iPod does. It'll be announced MWSF, with a shipping date of feb '08.

Oh, and it'll use the same SDK as the iPhone.

that would be siiiick. Give it 20gb, sub $1000. I'd like that, a lot.

I should really stop dreaming... :p

Sounds pretty useless to me. Who wants to shell out over $500 for a giant iPod Touch? This should be a standalone computer, if Apple doesn't want it to end up like the iPod HiFi. A tablet would be stupid. They should just keep it simple and create a 12" widescreen notebook that uses an LED display and a flash hard-drive. And price it at $999.99. Give it a 2 Ghz Core 2 Duo.

jpxdude
Nov 12, 2007, 01:16 PM
13" is not a sub notebook and not an ultra portable.

If the terms "sub notebook" and "ultra portable" are synonymous with the rumor, we can expect something 12" or smaller.

A thinner, lighter 13" without optical drive just doesn't make sense.

plumbingandtech
Nov 12, 2007, 01:18 PM
It's sub enough for me.

Super thin.
Super light.
No DVD.

Possible Multi-touch.

Me buy.

Pierremaison
Nov 12, 2007, 01:18 PM
I hope they don't pull a Cube fiasco on this product.

Yes, it's expected that you have to pay extra to have a small and attractive form factor, however, the premium can't be too much higher. The pricing for this product will be the key to it's success or failure.

Does that not apply to every product that any company releases?:rolleyes:

thasan
Nov 12, 2007, 01:20 PM
yea yea yea another rumor :rolleyes:
its too hard to believe anyway.... too quick to update MB this soon...maybe in march??
unfortunately for me, i decided against buying the modestly updated macbook and went for the crappy yet more feature rich dell again :o
and got it for 900 pounds with a whole lot better specs :(
i hope to jump next time and i hope that next time comes sooner :D

boss1
Nov 12, 2007, 01:21 PM
13" is not a sub notebook and not an ultra portable.

If the terms "sub notebook" and "ultra portable" are synonymous with the rumor, we can expect something 12" or smaller.

A thinner, lighter 13" without optical drive just doesn't make sense.

Agreed...unless it turns out to be smaller than 13" , replaces the keyboard with a full touchscreen and runs an OS version that is between Mac OS X and iPhone OS . only then would the no optical drive make sense as well as justify ultra portable.

elppa
Nov 12, 2007, 01:22 PM
What I do like is Apple having the bravery to pull the 12" PowerBook and not replace it immediately, but taking the time to design something from the ground up that they believe will be a worthy successor. They don't want to sell second best or yesterdays technology. They want to be in the lead. Whilst other companies talk about this, Apple delivers the goods.

One thing no one has really mentioned in very much detail is the resolution. I wonder if the resolution will be greater than (1280 x 800 pixles). This is where res independence could finally come into play if it has a 160-200ppi display.

I believe they will use a combination of solid state and hard disk drive. The iPod is up to 160GB now. A combination of the two could be quite compelling in terms of access speed and size.

They need to make it smaller than 13" to attract the crowd that loved the 12" PowerBook form factor.

Volume wise it will be the same or smaller, sure it will be a little wider, but it will also be shorter (screen height) and thinner.

And of course it will be lighter. The crowd that loved the 12" PowerBook form factor will probably love this just as much.

Without an optical drive Apple will have to offer Leopard, iLife et al as a digital download right?

No, you buy the matching ultra slim FW 800 super drive.

Ask not what your Macbook Nano does for you, ask what you can buy for your Macbook Nano…

VaDor
Nov 12, 2007, 01:24 PM
13" screen. Sorry, updated story.

arn

But 13" is almost the same as current MacBooks..

I was thinking something more portable like 10" - 12" in max!

Like this Sony Vaio TR5MP:
http://www.damia.net/vaio/ima/vaio-dami.jpg


Of course with Apple style , that vaio is ugly :p

Manatee
Nov 12, 2007, 01:25 PM
I predict a smaller form factor than 13". Otherwise, there is no reason to lose the optical drive, if they do.


It's not the footprint that would force them to ditch the optical drive, but the profile -- half the thickness of a MacBook Pro, 0.5 inches.

CDs and DVDs will join floppies and 8-tracks and LPs and VCDs and 33s.

I hope we're headed that way. We can fit 8GB on a microSD card, and I read somewhere that we'll see 32GB on those tiny things next year. Granted, the price of a 4GB or 8GB microSD is far from the "disposable" range of DVDs, but the difference in physical volume shows how inefficient DVDs and CDs are.

I've probably said it here before, but I can remember when I upgraded a DEC minicomputer to 1GB of storage in the mid-'80s, and was impressed that all that storage could fit in a single rack footprint. It was four physical drive enclosures, each the size of a microwave oven, stacked vertically. I think it cost around $40K.

BIK
Nov 12, 2007, 01:27 PM
Hopefully at macworld in jan they will also unveil a new more portable Macbook Pro. I just can't justify dropping 600 more dollars to have a non-integrated video card.

I will say, my iBook G4 has proven to be quite the trooper. Who knew a 32mb ATI vid card would still be better performing than the macbooks 2 YEARS LATER.


As for the ultraportable rumor, it would seem like a great way to introduce iTunes movie rentals.

ChrisA
Nov 12, 2007, 01:28 PM
That's exciting :) Still don't understand what "something strange" could be, though.

An iPod touch display used as a trackpad. It would be a better use of space then the normal black plastic track pad.

Manatee
Nov 12, 2007, 01:28 PM
What brand is the OQO UPMC ?? :o

OQO. Search it on the web. It's a very cool device, but just too slow for my taste.

boss1
Nov 12, 2007, 01:29 PM
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/11/12/iphone_to_gain_apple_spotlight_search_in_2008.html

Gene Munster:
"We believe NAND Flash drive sizes have now reached capacities that Apple would consider large enough to include in a new MacBook model," he explained. "As a result, a new, smaller version of Apple's MacBook, and possibly an entirely new product, is more likely to be launched at MacWorld in early January."


I'm leaning toward agreeing with the latter .. "an entirely new product"

tingly
Nov 12, 2007, 01:31 PM
If you make the case as small as possible, using full-size keys/trackpad, you can get a 13" screen in there. Here's the 12" which has about as small of a case as you're ever gonna get from Apple, notice the borders where a screen could extend to. http://img.osnews.com/img/2547/pbook.png

To get a smaller maximum screen size, you'd have to use smaller keys to type on which would suck darts.

Avatar74
Nov 12, 2007, 01:33 PM
13" screen seems rather large for an ultra portable computer - I would have expected 11-12".

I'm also curious to see how no optical drive works out.

Apple has always been a leader in popularizing (not necessarily inventing) various technologies... be it firewire, ethernet, 3.5" microfloppies, CD-ROM, CD/DVD burners.

What I see is a move of foresight... The internet has had a tremendous impact on how we move and share data. So much so that it has rendered many types of removable media redundant. Between e-mail, FTP, blogs, myspace, youtube, etc. there are so many different options for content sharing and transfer with the ultimate portability factor... one can see that while removable media hasn't completely outlived its usefulness, it's getting there.

Apple is smart to be thinking about the future (or lack thereof) of removable media now. I was thinking about this the other day when I found a relatively simple way to access my media over the LAN from my iPhone without actually storing the content on the iPhone itself. As bandwidth increases, what's the point of local storage except for working with files that you tend to alter in a processor and memory intensive way? And how many of those does the average person actually intend to work on between trips to Starbucks?

I got laughed at by naysayers for suggesting that removable media is going exxtinct from consumer electronics, but here we are with at least half of the posts concerning the ultraportable's possible lack of an optical drive being, to even my own surprise, a positive reaction.

And this is in no small part thanks to the content ecosystems popularized by iTunes, YouTube and the like. And I feel that AppleTV, or some kind of successor to it, has yet some very important part to play in this ecosystem... bridging it all together for the holy grail of technological convergence.

FrenchKheldar
Nov 12, 2007, 01:35 PM
What I'd like to see:
- Core 2 Duo ULV U7700 1.33GHz (release date 12/30/07)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_future_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors#.22Merom-2M.22_.28ultra-low-voltage.2C_65_nm.29
- 32 GB SSD
- 2 GB RAM
- 80 GB HDD
- 12" screen with almost no bezel
- 802.11n
- keyboard similar to the new BT keyboard, not sure I want the touchpad...
- Intel GMA X3100 graphics for 1,500$, dedicated GPU for 1,800$
- 6+ hours battery life
- less than 3 pounds

What do you think?

offwidafairies
Nov 12, 2007, 01:36 PM
even though ive just bought a 17"mbp.... i will be in san fran in january and will be checking these sub-notebooks out. i hope they are very cool. im sure i could find a reason why i NEED 2 laptops :D

phillipjfry
Nov 12, 2007, 01:36 PM
Gah! I figured it out! There will be no keyboard. All touch-based pad with the outlines of the keyboard and a section for the mouse. That's what so strange about it. You heard it here first!!

jackc
Nov 12, 2007, 01:37 PM
If you make the case as small as possible, using full-size keys/trackpad, you can get a 13" screen in there. Here's the 12" which has about as small of a case as you're ever gonna get from Apple, notice the borders where a screen could extend to. http://img.osnews.com/img/2547/pbook.png

To get a smaller maximum screen size, you'd have to use smaller keys to type on which would suck darts.

I agree, as long as it's thinner and lighter it's all good.

applefanboy
Nov 12, 2007, 01:38 PM
:apple: has never made a mistake in any product launch. :apple:'s subnotebook will be the next iPod. No one with a rational mind can deny how amazing :apple: is has has always been and will always be. I will buy one :apple: subnotebook in no matter what incarnation for each day of the week. I wish they would bring back the flower pattern from the original form factor of the imacs and have that be the design for the subnotebook. But of course if they didn't :apple: obviously made the right choice. Getting rid of the optical drive will be analogous to ditching betamax for VHS. But of course if they keep the optical drive, obviously :apple: made the right choice because who would want an :apple: subnotebook without an optical drive?! :apple: forever, man, forever.

koobcamuk
Nov 12, 2007, 01:44 PM
:apple: .

Your post would be so much nicer to read without that all the time.

I also envisaged no keyboard - remember how they acquired that keyboard company that makes the touch multi-gesture keyboards?

katanna
Nov 12, 2007, 01:45 PM
I have said it before, and will say it again, if Apple came out with a tablet Mac, it would be my next computer.

It would be amazing to have something small with me everywhere.

Matthew

coleridge78
Nov 12, 2007, 01:47 PM
I have watched "Who Killed The Electric Car" and concluded that it was probably a little bit of everyone involved. My point stands though. The EV-1 did less and cost more. and this subnotebook would cost more and have lower specs without an optical drive.

If you watched it, you should know that your point does not stand. One of the major issues was that there was, in fact, more demand than supply for the EV-1 (and all electric vehicles of the time, each of which met the same inexplicable fate except 300 fully-electric Toyota RAV4s).

gkarris
Nov 12, 2007, 01:47 PM
NOT going to be cheap. The Sony ones start at $2099:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665181588

I expect the Apple ones to start at $2199. If they do go "low ball", maybe $1899, maybe as low as $1599, but "bring your own optical drive".

The Thinkpads are the next best, and they start at $1030 (I've got an older one and it's awesome). But I think Apple's will be closer to Sony's.

Let's not say, "but the dHell's cost only blah blah blah, and the Gateways are only blah blah blah" - those are junk and not worth even mentioning...

Dave00
Nov 12, 2007, 01:48 PM
no way it's going to have the performance of a macbook pro.. even the macbook will win
Depends on what you mean by performance. If it's complex graphical manipulations, that will be more driven by the GPU. But tasks that require disk usage will be much, much faster. The guy on engadget got his macbook pro - with solid-state substituted for a hard drive - to boot in 24 seconds! That's with various add-ons, not a virgin system.

The bigger problem is going to the technical issues created by frequent writing and re-writing of solid-state memory.

The truly exciting possibility is that this will be a touch-screen. Main drawback to the tablet computers right now is how clunky they are. I'm hoping alot of this can be resolved with elimination of the hard drive and optical drive. Imagine a 13" version of the iPod touch...

Avatar74
Nov 12, 2007, 01:50 PM
could the specs be:

2/2.2ghz Core 2 Duo
1gb ram
10 or 13" LED screens
1.2 or 1.6 kg (depending on screen size)
64GB (128gb to come wwdc)
no optical drive
2cm thin
large gesture touch pad (pinching ect for photos - not a screen)

my ideas, any comments

I know that the act of hypothesizing about future Mac specs is a pastime among Mac fans... but I think too many people get mired in throwing arbitrary numbers out there (once again, I realize it's for fun) and lose sight of the bigger picture.

Apple has never been about specs. They don't make a big deal about it in their packaging. Mention of specs is almost entirely absent from their marketing (inspired by the marketing philosophy of Dr. Amar Bose). So attentuated is their focus on specifications that users will note the one glaring difference between that UK kid's iPod touch ad and the final version used by TBWA\Chiat\Day is the omission of the "8GB", "16GB" and "Mac + PC" inserts. Brief yet entirely incongruous with Apple's approach to product... even before I saw the broadcast version, something seemed horrendously odd about those inserts.

Specs are a means to an end, not an end unto themselves. Specs are what is required to meet the requirements of a desired user experience... but it is the user experience that defines the Mac, not the specs.

Specs are mundane, but the concept is redefining computing in such a significant way that Apple dropped "computer" from their name. It's an inelegant term to describe such elegantly designed devices.

What the hell am I talking about, you wonder. I'm saying forget the specs... discuss the ideas. Ideas are bigger than specs... and in execution, ideas do revolutionary things. It could be an idea to get someone in LA talking with someone in New York (telegraph, telephone, videoconference), or a means to get a message to the masses (Gutenberg press, linotype, photocopier, e-mail...)... It could be a device to store thousands of symphonies in your pocket (iPod)... It could be a device to do all of these things and more... but to reduce it to a set of criteria that in and of themselves do absolutely nothing to inspire imagination and creativity.... that is missing the forest for the trees!

"Wouldn't it be great if you could... " - Steve Jobs

starflyer
Nov 12, 2007, 01:53 PM
Pass.

The fact that 64GB SSD go for $1500+ alone makes me think this is bunk. Anything less than 60GB on a laptop these days is a no go with me. Without an optical drive and such little space? No, no way.

What if Apple has laid the foundation for something really special to solve this with Leopards new "Back to my Mac" feature?

wordmunger
Nov 12, 2007, 02:01 PM
For those complaining about the 13-inch display, remember this:

A 13-inch display is about 11.5 X 7 inches.

The 12-inch PowerBook measured 1.18" H x 10.9" W x 8.6" D

The MacBook is bigger: 1.08" H x 12.78" W x 8.92" D --

But there is a very large margin around the display. You could shrink the margin around the display and accommodate the same display in a much smaller case -- perhaps 0.6" H x 12" W x 8" D.

This would make it smaller than the 12-inch Powerbook in all dimensions but one, and just 1.1 inches wider.

It would be 3/4 of an inch narrower and almost a full inch less deep than the current MacBook -- and just over half the thickness. That sounds ultraportable to me.

If the device was priced reasonably (<$1500 without optional DVD drive), I might consider getting one.

Yvan256
Nov 12, 2007, 02:05 PM
Seriously, nobody ever called the 12" PowerBook G4 an Ultra-Portable, so all of a sudden a paper-thin laptop with a 13" screen becomes Ultra-Portable? :rolleyes:

There's more to laptops than their thickness.

I'd rather see something with a 7 or 8" screen, as long as the resolution is at least 1024x768 (bare minimum). And before someone tells me a screen that size is impossible to use, I've worked with VM84 displays (7" at 1024x768).

As for the keyboard, you only have to look at the iPhone/iPod touch for your answer. Maybe Apple with pull a Nintendo DS and put two displays, the bottom one being the keyboard/touchpad/whatever (we've all seen the patents a while back).

50548
Nov 12, 2007, 02:06 PM
But 13" is almost the same as current MacBooks..

I was thinking something more portable like 10" - 12" in max!

Like this Sony Vaio TR5MP:
http://www.damia.net/vaio/ima/vaio-dami.jpg


Of course with Apple style , that vaio is ugly :p

That Vaio is ridiculously ugly and tiny; 10" is just useless for anyone willing to do some real work. Gimme a 12" and I will be happy.

elgruga
Nov 12, 2007, 02:07 PM
This sub-notebook has certain form-factor restrictions based on the OS and things we like to do with our laptops.

Must have at least 100 gb drive - even 80 doesnt cut it now.
The physical size of the drive isnt going to affect the size of the laptop that much.

Solid state storage is much too expensive, unless Apple have got some stunning deal going....

Screen must be 12" - any more and its pointless, any less and its too damn small.

No optical drive - so how do we get programs, music, OS etc into it?

Keyboard size - once you get below a certain size, it becomes a joke.

It sounds like a replacement for the 12" powerbook, with some new stuff.

It also sounds like a niche product, similar to the PB 12", which means limited production and high price.

I would buy one to replace my Macbook Pro, but I wont buy one if I have to give up Optical drive, Storage space, etc.

What would be the point? Give me an iPhone with 32 gigs and that will do the trick.

cohibadad
Nov 12, 2007, 02:12 PM
When I try to channel Steve Jobs, I see an ultraportable that syncs with iTunes like an iPhone, but instead of just songs and movies, it syncs applications as well so you can maximize use of a small internal NAND in either 16 or 32 Gb.

elgruga
Nov 12, 2007, 02:15 PM
Perhaps from now on instead of obtaining system disks on DVD they will come on flash USB/FireWire drives instead.

CDs and DVDs will join floppies and 8-tracks and LPs and VCDs and 33s.


This post make sense - Apple could include the OS on a couple of 4 gig flash drives.
Got me thinking this might happen.....

BWhaler
Nov 12, 2007, 02:16 PM
I'm a 17" laptop guy right now, and I don't imagine I would drop down to the 15 or the 13" laptops. (The 15" isn't small enough to warrant the loss in pixels and the 13" doesn't have the GPU power, and again, isn't small enough to warrant the loss in pixels.

But a super small and light may be a winner for me. It would need incredible battery life, but as an exec who has traveled the world for the past 5 years with the latest and greatest 17" from Apple, this may be the thing that makes me change.

Of course, last week I had to give a presentation in front of 8 people who huddled around my laptop. (Their projector was busted.) It's moments like this I think the 17" is a must have.

No matter what, given Apple's problems in the past few years with quality on the first 2 - 3 revisions of new portables, even if I want to buy this, I will not be the first person in line. Not a chance.

jackc
Nov 12, 2007, 02:16 PM
Screen must be 12" - any more and its pointless, any less and its too damn small.

12.1"?

thechidz
Nov 12, 2007, 02:16 PM
That Vaio is ridiculously ugly and tiny; 10" is just useless for anyone willing to do some real work. Gimme a 12" and I will be happy.

that thing is more than ugly... its fugly:cool:

matznentosh
Nov 12, 2007, 02:20 PM
The bigger problem is going to the technical issues created by frequent writing and re-writing of solid-state memory...

I've wondered about that myself, re: the iPod, iPhone, etc. How long can you use flash ram before it wears out?

As for the specifications, I think given current costs it is much more likely to have an iPod hard disk, 80 gb, and smaller amount of ram (16? 32?) which would work more like a cache than a separate hard drive. Maybe keep the operating system in it.

Then you wouldn't have an external optical disk included. The operating system would be installed already. Updates would be downloaded as now. Maybe a thumb drive for emergency recovery. Probably an optical drive sold separately. Or maybe the good, better, best, with the better and best coming with external optical for extra money.

chrmjenkins
Nov 12, 2007, 02:23 PM
Omigosh you are all fools. There will be an optical drive, but the keyboard will flip up to reveal it! It will also have a -0.01" thick OLED screen!




Seriously though,
I would say they will do away with the trackpad as we know it, and you will have a touch screen. This allows for a device with smaller depth to it. As for the screen, it will be gesturific (goodbye hot keys) and probably have a twistable screen so that it also functions as a conventional tablet does. As for the drives, 64 GB SSD is expensive, but plausible. Take the price of a macbook (~ 1200) and add the 800 or so they will get the drives in bulk, and you have a 2000 dollar machine. You are also kicking out the cost of a HDD and optical drive from that. (And no, there's not going to be dedicated graphics, you guys are so demanding. It would be a nuclear reactor in your lap). Add in the convenience premium, and I'm sure you're around the 2k price point.

As others have mentioned, you don't need more than 64gb or an optical drive because this isn't your main computer. It's your on-the-bus-on-the-plane--on-the-train-gotta-get-work-done laptop that you sync with your regular computer when you are home.

Fin

wordmunger
Nov 12, 2007, 02:25 PM
There's more to laptops than their thickness.

There's also more than their width. What I want is something I don't have to worry about dragging along with me. There are *magazines* larger than 12 X 8 inches.

I'd rather see something with a 7 or 8" screen, as long as the resolution is at least 1024x768 (bare minimum). And before someone tells me a screen that size is impossible to use, I've worked with VM84 displays (7" at 1024x768).

I wouldn't. I have a hard time reading the MacBook display. Anything smaller than that would probably be a deal killer. I seriously doubt many people would actually buy a computer with a 7 inch screen. I could be wrong, of course.

As for the keyboard, you only have to look at the iPhone/iPod touch for your answer. Maybe Apple with pull a Nintendo DS and put two displays, the bottom one being the keyboard/touchpad/whatever (we've all seen the patents a while back).

If I want an iPhone keyboard, I'd get an iPhone. A smaller than standard keyboard would also be a deal-killer for me. ymmv.

It sounds to me like what you want is a jumbo-sized iPhone, not a mini PowerBook. Maybe there's a market for that, but somehow I doubt it. The world of computers is scattered with the charred remains of micro-mini-sized computer makers.

GNU is Not Unix
Nov 12, 2007, 02:30 PM
If it's priced higher than a macbook, i won't buy it. Ask GM what happens when you release a product that costs more and does less (EV-1). It doesn't sell.

I think that had something to do with the fact that GM never offered the EV-1 for sale.

Clancycoop
Nov 12, 2007, 02:31 PM
Lets be realistic. The Macbook Pro's design is 2 years old, so this is obviously going to be a revamp of the Pro, just like they did with the iPods a couple months back. We can look at their past behavior to see what they will do next.

Right now, there is a huge hole in their product line left by the 12 inch powerbook. They are going to once again offer a fast notebook, that is less than 15". It is going to look similar to the new iMacs as well as the iPhone in design (alum, glass and black accents).

This revamped line will offer 13", 15" and 17" models. It will be thinner than the current MB Pro, and come with an external optical drive.

Thats my guess. I want a MB Pro, but don't want a 15", so this is what i have been waiting for.

lazyrighteye
Nov 12, 2007, 02:38 PM
Exactly. Apple will LEAD again the trend in terms of phasing out obsolete things...this was the case for floppies and will be the case for CDs and DVDs. On my iMac, discs are used only for 3 things:

- ripping music and videos I have;
- backing up a few files;
- playing a couple of games that require the CD to be there.

This ultraportable will SURELY blow out the minds of customers and catapult Apple to the first place in the IT industry; in other words, it's gonna be one of the last nails in Microsoft's coffin...I WILL buy it the moment it's released...GO APPLE!

BRLawyer, I was reading my way to posting virtually the same thing: remember the floppy, Zip, album, 8-track, cassette, VHS, Beta, laser discs, etc.? Exactly: all phased out. CD/DVD are no different - just the next in line to go away. Besides, physical media is so 2007. In the cars-flying-future, online is where all apps/OSes/content will live and or be distributed.

More of a hybrid of an iPhone and MacBook, I tend to think Apple's "next big thing" will introduce this media-less concept. And this device will not be built with video editing and/or gaming in mind. It will center around what the majority of people need/want/use: web, Mail, iLife, etc.
Sub $1k.

??

dogcowabunga
Nov 12, 2007, 02:42 PM
even though ive just bought a 17"mbp....


Ive bought a 17" MacBook Pro? Now THAT'S a remarkable news item! I would have assumed that Jonathan Ive, Apple SVP and design guru extraordinare, could get all the free Apple hardware he wants.

rtdunham
Nov 12, 2007, 02:48 PM
I'm sure Apple will push Time Machine as the way to go to format your laptop and so an external HD will prabably be required in some way.

it might be cool to see a handsomely- and efficiently-designed apple hard drive housing (for Time Machine) with a slot (like the old duo docks had for the duo itself) into which a (yes, handsomely- and efficiently-designed) apple super drive could be inserted: At home you've got your two critical drives at hand (in an h- and e-d'd unit :cool:) but when you go on the road you could pop out the external super drive and take it with you. So instead of a docking computer, you have a docking optical drive. Typical apple simplification-- without limiting utility but minimizing desktop clutter. while they're at it, i wouldn't mind some thought being given to how the ext opt drive might attach to the MB(P)--the apple remote clips magnetically to the screen bezel, after all--or how the power supply and ext opt dr might share some components or connect into a compact unit for travel. If numerous users are going to be traveling with common components--in this case an ac adapter and an external drive--they ought to be designed ground-up not only to work together, but to fit together. Capiche?

GQB
Nov 12, 2007, 02:52 PM
I dont think so. It would suck trying to look at the larger screen while typing on a touch screen I think...

The iPhone or touch would become the trackpad, not the keyboard.
If it could be done without being triggered while you type, I've been thinking the same thing.

tingly
Nov 12, 2007, 02:54 PM
The vaio has a dvd drive in it. Apple could beat $2099 easily without one. I bet the new apple keyboard was developed for this thing and it was so good that they are slapping it into everything.

chicagostars
Nov 12, 2007, 03:07 PM
Lets be realistic. The Macbook Pro's design is 2 years old, so this is obviously going to be a revamp of the Pro, just like they did with the iPods a couple months back. We can look at their past behavior to see what they will do next.

Right now, there is a huge hole in their product line left by the 12 inch powerbook. They are going to once again offer a fast notebook, that is less than 15". It is going to look similar to the new iMacs as well as the iPhone in design (alum, glass and black accents).

This revamped line will offer 13", 15" and 17" models. It will be thinner than the current MB Pro, and come with an external optical drive.

Thats my guess. I want a MB Pro, but don't want a 15", so this is what i have been waiting for.

Very good points. There is indeed a huge hole in the product line with the absence of the 12" Powerbook. I've gotten a great deal of mileage out of mine and have heard a great deal from others who would like to have something with an appreciable amount of power for their needs in a very portable package. My fiancee's MacBook seems portly next to my 12".

Not so sure that something with a 7-10" screen will fit the bill here; seems that Apple may see further exploration and development of the iPhone as the product to fill that particular space.

Also, the MacBook Pro line has gone a great amount of time without a truly noteworthy update, so one has to figure something will happen to the existing models of the MBP along with the possible introduction of a 'subnotebook'.

erzeszut
Nov 12, 2007, 03:07 PM
Curious to know what you all think are the odds of this rumored Apple "sub-notebook" having an ExpressCard slot??

The lack of an EC slot is what prevented me from purchasing a 13" MB for my boss. She was upgrading from a 12" PB G4, and doesn't like the extra size and weight of the 15" MBP.

But, since she needed a machine that would support a Verizon Wireless cellular connection (and VZW's USB cellular modems don't support the Mac), the 15" MBP was the smallest, lightest option.

If this subnotebook has an ExpressCard slot, I might be able to convince her to give me the 15" MBP. :)

What's everyone's educated (or not so educated) guess?

tibi08
Nov 12, 2007, 03:10 PM
Curious to know what you all think are the odds of this rumored Apple "sub-notebook" having an ExpressCard slot??

Very very low

tablebeast
Nov 12, 2007, 03:10 PM
Perhaps no one else has considered this yet, but by the time 10.6 comes out how cheap will USB jump drives be? They could sell the OS and related software loaded on a USB jump drive and do away with the need for optical drives and media all together. They could even handle licensing via the jump drive and heck make it an iPod shuffle while you're at it! In 2-3 years when 10.6 'Lion?' comes out a 16GB jump drive will probably be less than $10 wholesale so the increased cost vs. optical media won't be much of a factor, especially if they touted the digital release format as something new and exciting. Maybe this OS X 10.5 is the last version to even be released on optical media! Yep, jump drives and digital downloads will be the future if they release anything with full blown OS X that has no optical drive. Count on it.

rtdunham
Nov 12, 2007, 03:14 PM
By the way, that is the consensus view on the Post-G4 MacBook chicklet-style keyboards? I've never used one, and they look like a step backward to me...

i've touch-typed all my long life and at a high speed; on my macbook keystrokes on the bottom row frequently fail to register. and this is after my MB has been in twice for keyboard adjustment/repair. It might just be my machine, but i'm disappointed in the keyboard. Loved the one on my 15" MBP.

rtdunham
Nov 12, 2007, 03:18 PM
.... too quick to update MB this soon...

but it's not too soon to replace the long-ago discontinued 12" MBP, is it?

i think the new little laptop, if it appears, will be an addition to the MBP line. I agree with those who anticipate a little bit of solid state storage for OS only, if at all, plus a HD.

lena
Nov 12, 2007, 03:22 PM
something this small[/URL], Only usable.

And less hideous! :D Ha! My thought exactly...;)

lasuther
Nov 12, 2007, 03:25 PM
I’m not sure this is going to appeal to many people. This will probably sacrifice power, features, and price for weight. And even with the light weight, you will still have the 13” screen footprint.

The storage space from Flash is going to be tight. I would guess 64GB and 96GB sizes. I have a 60GB MacBook right now and with Leopard, WoW, MS Office, and iTunes I constantly hit my limit (2GB free right now). You certainly won’t be downloading many pictures, iTunes, and movies on this computer.

No optical drive will be missed by those who burn CDs, watch DVDs, and play an occasional game. That will probably be a lot of students and business travelers.

I would guess a weak processor to conserve power, possibly at the low MacBook end. Integrated graphics to save on cost, power, and size reductions. Drop the Firewire, and just have 2 USB ports with Eithernet. Battery will be small, but that shouldn’t matter since it probably won’t use much juice anyway.

And after all of these feature reductions and cost saves; the Flash storage, slim aluminum enclosure, and LED backlight screen should keep the cost around $1500.

Weight savings is nice, but if this computer has significantly less features and power than the MacBook and costs more, I’m not sure it will be a big seller.

tirerim
Nov 12, 2007, 03:36 PM
For me, a lightweight machine with a 12 or 13 inch screen would be perfect. I'm a web developer, so I need something that I can actually see, and a keyboard I can actually type on. No need for an optical drive, or a vast quantity of disk space (if I want to carry my media around with me, I'll bring my iPod). And for me, the primary measure of portability is weight. It's very easy to slip something the size of a MacBook or 12" PowerBook into my bag, but it gets annoying carrying around 4.5 pounds of computer everywhere, especially added to all the other stuff I carry.

(My ultimate dream device is something like an iPhone, but with the processing power of a real computer and a decent-sized roll-up screen and keyboard. That's probably ten years away, though.)

celloman
Nov 12, 2007, 03:37 PM
will this be an add on to the mac lineup or be a replacement for the macbook?

MacSamurai
Nov 12, 2007, 03:45 PM
This (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsnb_m1330?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19) is what you can expect the specs to look like,and well as for the price you guys be the judges ;) (click on tech specs)

iW00t
Nov 12, 2007, 03:45 PM
$799?

Why not just take your money and go elsewhere? Even the Mac Mini gives less for more.

Oh, 13"? Forget it then. Flash + LED + 13" = $1499 (I'd wager).

I am looking for something around 10". And something in the $799-$899 range. An unreasonable expectation, I realize!

My gut says they will brand it Macbook Nano, and my gut further says they are going to combine the AppleTV and Mac Mini lines into a Mac Nano -- AppleTV sized, HDMI, meant for the living room but is an actual computer that can be used elsewhere.

atarian90
Nov 12, 2007, 03:47 PM
I am joining the bandwagon about 13" being too big. 10" is too small. I think 11"-12" is fine for a more usable ultraportable.

I hope the optical drive will stay. I've had a need to burn CDs on the road for people, and I am NOT going to give them $10-$20 1GB flash drives when a CD costs less than a cent. I'm sure people would love for me to give them flash drives, but I can't afford it!

I also expect Apple to match or beat the competitors (Sony, Toshiba, etc) when introducing a new product. A 13" screen with no optical looks so out-of-date. If their competitors can release an 11"-12" ultraportable with a CD/DVD burner, I expect Apple to also, and then work from there. Any new features better be REALLY earth-shattering if they want to make up for the bulkier size of the Mac ultraportable.

That's my 2 cents.

FrenchKheldar
Nov 12, 2007, 03:56 PM
This (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsnb_m1330?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19) is what you can expect the specs to look like,and well as for the price you guys be the judges ;) (click on tech specs)

You can;t have both SSD and HDD though... And it gets pricey pretty quickly (SSD drive is $900):
$2838
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7250 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB, 2MB Cache)
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium Edition
Slim and Light LED Display with VGA Webcam
2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz
High Reliability: 64GB Solid State Drive
CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW Drive)
Intel® Integrated Graphics Media Accelerator X3100
Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card
Built-in Bluetooth capability (2.0 EDR)
56Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell)
Integrated Sound Blaster Audigy HD Software Edition
No Fingerprint Reader

chrmjenkins
Nov 12, 2007, 04:03 PM
This (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsnb_m1330?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19) is what you can expect the specs to look like,and well as for the price you guys be the judges ;) (click on tech specs)

Right, Apple is going to totally innovate by copying a Dell Product :p

panda
Nov 12, 2007, 04:06 PM
13" is not a sub notebook and not an ultra portable.

If the terms "sub notebook" and "ultra portable" are synonymous with the rumor, we can expect something 12" or smaller.

A thinner, lighter 13" without optical drive just doesn't make sense.

its been said that a sub notebook should have a small screen. that to me in fact IS the problem with notebooks that are too small. i personally feel that weight is FAR more important than size in this category.

i justify this by assuming that any 'sub' laptop will not fit in the pocket and need to be carried in a bag. does the size of the bag matter much? not in this case. One can clearly divide portable size into two major categories -that which fits in the pocket and that which doesn't fit in the pocket. (though the non-pocket size certainly can have limitations, as i personally feel that 17" is close to being -less of a portable. more of a desktop.

the difference in my mind in ease of portability from a size standpoint between a 10" and a 13" is negligible. however, the difference between 4 lbs and 2 lbs, is huge. include a big, really useful screen with this (13" or more) and portability becomes really interesting.

i can see this new ultra-portable taking 1 of these 2 form factors:

1. a small macbook pro that eventually will be part of a revamped macbook pro line with the 15" and 17" also slimming down (in weight).

2. a tablet along the lines of wacom's new centiq, which together with apple's wireless keyboard, touchscreen technology (including virtual keypad), leopard, incorporated desk stand, separate optical drive, all the usual ports and wireless connectivity as well as some new input devices (pen, marker, airbrush), could make for the creative person's super-light dream computer come true.

so back to my point, when it comes to portability, weight generally matters more than size. and in this case, the bigger the screen, the better.
:)

MacSamurai
Nov 12, 2007, 04:07 PM
Right, Apple is going to totally innovate by copying a Dell Product :p

Well not exactly copying.I was just showing what a laptop with similar specs(according to the rumors) looks like,and hence what the ultra-portable from apple could look like.Also to give a good idea of the cost.

chrmjenkins
Nov 12, 2007, 04:11 PM
Well not exactly copying.I was just showing what a laptop with similar specs(according to the rumors) looks like,and hence what the ultra-portable from apple could look like.Also to give a good idea of the cost.

That's the exact same size as the macbook though :-/

I think we are pretty confident it's going to be more like the Sony Vaio's and whatever else that it has been compared to rather than the existing 13.3" form factors.

That is, of course, if it exists :D

chillywilly
Nov 12, 2007, 04:26 PM
BRLawyer makes a good point about the phasing out of physical media.

Updates are done online. And even if you had to restore, nothing wrong with plugging in an external flash or hard drive and booting from it to get your OS and data back.

This new ultra portable sounds pretty cool. Let's see what happens at MWSF in January.

joemama
Nov 12, 2007, 04:32 PM
Completely right. Sony makes what are hands-down the most impressive ultraportables on the market, but you virtually never see them in the wild because they are extremely expensive. I think if Apple prices this new machine of theirs at $1499 it will sell like crazy. At $1999 it will sell alright, and anything over that and it will hardly sell at all. They could conceivably price it as low as $999, since it sounds like it will use standard laptop components, but at that price you'd have to expect to have hardly any disk space (like, say, 8gb).

Wow I'm thinking in the $500-600 range. ANything higher would infringe on MacBook sales. think about it - no traditional HD, no optical drive. Most of the cost is in the screen/touch screen.

xpisnotforme
Nov 12, 2007, 04:35 PM
They need to make it smaller than 13" to attract the crowd that loved the 12" PowerBook form factor.

Me thinks not. 12" powerbook has a different footprint and arguably more functioning screen space than the current 13.3" macbooks since the macbooks are widescreen. 13.3" across a longer rectangle isn't the same as 12" across a albeit shorter one.

erzeszut
Nov 12, 2007, 04:42 PM
Wow I'm thinking in the $500-600 range. ANything higher would infringe on MacBook sales. think about it - no traditional HD, no optical drive. Most of the cost is in the screen/touch screen.

No way. You pay for portability and convenience. It won't be marketed to the same people who buy the MacBook.

It'll be marketed to people who want the ultimate in a portable laptop, the people that don't want a MacBook. The 12" PowerBook was always priced higher than the 14" iBooks, and I don't think this one would be any different.

chillywilly
Nov 12, 2007, 04:48 PM
No way. You pay for portability and convenience. It won't be marketed to the same people who buy the MacBook.

It'll be marketed to people who want the ultimate in a portable laptop, the people that don't want a MacBook. The 12" PowerBook was always priced higher than the 14" iBooks, and I don't think this one would be any different.

Agreed. This model would be different than the current crop of MacBooks. I have a MBP now and wouldn't mind having something like this.

iSee
Nov 12, 2007, 04:56 PM
I prey to god this has a decent dedicated graphics card, otherwise i'm going to go and cry

LOL!!!! I guess you were joking, but I'll take the bait: There is no way this would have a dedicated graphics card--dedicated or otherwise. I think every place in it's design where there was a tradeoff between size/battery life and computing power, Apple would have chosen size/battery life.

If this device exists, I'm guessing it will be the something like the NanoBook Pro (not that name necessarily, but how it's positioned in the lineup).

I'm afraid it will be more expensive that the MacBook: It will incorporate new and expensive technologies like a solid state drive, a very slim form factor, possibly some kind of minimal bezel, maybe a docking station or external optical drive. It will probably be impractical for people who don't have a lot of money to spend on computers and a strong need to be mobile.

Also, AI rumored this thing to come out a long time ago, so they don't have very accurate sources on this.

RonJ83
Nov 12, 2007, 05:01 PM
ill believe it when i see it.:rolleyes:

Clancycoop
Nov 12, 2007, 05:07 PM
Everyone is saying that it can't be 13" because that isn't "ultra-portable". It may not be, but we don't know for sure that this laptop is going to be "ultra-portable". Read the rest before you go tearing me apart saying "but it says ultra-portable!"

Lets just say that the Apple spy or whoever started this rumor saw a 13" and in his mind believes that 13" in conjunction with a thinner body means ultra-portable, and published it. From then on everyone thinks that it has to fit the definition of ultra-portable.

Instead of arguing over semantics, we could try to speculate what Apple WOULD release.

And everyone needs to realize that no built in optical drive doesn't mean you can't watch movies, burn cds etc. It just means that you need to have your external drive there to burn a CD, and you need to rip your DVD onto your notebook before the trip, or consider de-cluttering your shelf by utilizing this great thing Apple already released called iTunes! Apple is already going all digital!

I'm a student, and would LOVE them to release a 12" or 13" MB Pro. I don't need a built in optical drive. I could get around not having one at all, but I'm sure they will include and external one.

iSee
Nov 12, 2007, 05:10 PM
13" is not a sub notebook and not an ultra portable.

If the terms "sub notebook" and "ultra portable" are synonymous with the rumor, we can expect something 12" or smaller.

A thinner, lighter 13" without optical drive just doesn't make sense.

A 13" screen doesn't preclude it being sub-portable.

Look, for a computer to be usable, it needs to have a usable keyboard. Until foldable or projected or alternative keyboard layouts become viable, you can look at a basic MacBook or MacBook Pro keyboard as a miniumum width and height for a portable.

So, a 13" screen, minus most all of the bezel is about right, if you want a full-sized keyboard (minus the bezel). Then it's a question of how thin you can make it. And that's when you get to things like a solid-state hard drive and no/external optical drive.

So consider a 2-2.5 lbs laptop with a height and width almost the minimum dicated by a 13" screen and fullsize keyboard. It'll be something you can easily heft with one hand. I call that an ultraportable.

Sure, smaller ultra-portables have been made, but it's not like these things are wildly popular. I don't think Apple ever enters a market willing to be satisfied to achieve niche status. If they are really going to do this they are going for something bigger, and that almost certainly means a different approach that what others have tried before.

grimoald
Nov 12, 2007, 05:25 PM
There is no way that this will be cheaper than even the top-end MacBooks, irrespective of some hardware losses (which will be more than made up for cost-wise with the introduction of LED backlighting, new batteries and flash drives). It is aimed at different users, predominantly professionals who don't utilize a laptop as their primary computer (as opposed to most students and many others), people who have desktop replacements like the MacBook Pro which aren't ideal in terms of portability and those that just want an ultraportable mac.

I think it will have similar specs to the BlackBook, but you obviously will have to pay a premium for the form and function, not to mention cutting-edge tech. So I see it coming between the MacBook and MacBook Pro at $1799.

I also still think that the Aluminum MacBooks are coming, following the livery of the iPod Classic, but it will predominantly be an aesthetic change, with the higher-end model getting LED and perhaps other slight upgrades in terms of specs (i.e. losing the combo-drive and sightly more HD space) but I wouldn't bet much on that.

While the MBPs will get upgrades similar to what the MBs just had, increased intel processors and little else.

milo
Nov 12, 2007, 05:43 PM
Without an optical drive Apple will have to offer Leopard, iLife et al as a digital download right?

Nope, just the option to install them from either an external drive, or (preferably) from the drive on another mac connected by firewire or ethernet.

Any machine sold without an optical is going to end up being a second machine for most buyers.

CWallace
Nov 12, 2007, 05:44 PM
I'll be in the market for a replacement notebook for my Gen1 MacBook, so I'll be interested to see what this offers. Size and weight are very important to me.

offwidafairies
Nov 12, 2007, 05:46 PM
Ive bought a 17" MacBook Pro? Now THAT'S a remarkable news item! I would have assumed that Jonathan Ive, Apple SVP and design guru extraordinare, could get all the free Apple hardware he wants.

meh :rolleyes:

ceiph
Nov 12, 2007, 05:52 PM
all im hoping for is a macbook pro 13 inch lol. just something to go head to head with dells 1330 but yeah no optical isnt a deal breaker and im hoping if they do use nand make it os only to help costs.. idk

bushman1
Nov 12, 2007, 06:12 PM
it will be $ filling the clear gap in the current line 1500. 1000 more for a bigger scree no way there needs to be a middle man. Macbook pro update also.

goodtimes5
Nov 12, 2007, 06:20 PM
Does anyone think there is a good possibility Apple will price these things starting at $999?

MacSamurai
Nov 12, 2007, 06:23 PM
Does anyone think there is a good possibility Apple will price these things starting at $999?
Not if there is any nand memory in there

totoro
Nov 12, 2007, 06:32 PM
This device will most likely be very, very expensive, and include the bigger flash and a full keyboard. But it will not have the great of a graphics card, if any.
Or,
It will be a true tablet mac. The full size iPod Touch, which i think is a lot more likely. It will be just a slate with a glass screen and maybe an isight.
The market for either one of these will never be for a primary use computer, which is why it will lack an optical drive most likely, if it is.
Neither on will ba that powerful, maybe a core duo that tops out at 1.5ghz other wise i think it wouldn;t be near affordable for any one but the niche
I have a macbook and a macpro, and the speed is way different, but I can run aperture and final cut express a lot better than i could on my 17 Powerbook.
So if you have an 12pb, as your main computer, you really have nothing to lose. It's just a suggestion, that you maybe consideer what u are doing with your computer

weckart
Nov 12, 2007, 06:37 PM
Exactly. Apple will LEAD again the trend in terms of phasing out obsolete things...this was the case for floppies and will be the case for CDs and DVDs. out the minds of customers and catapult Apple to the first place in the IT industry; in other words, it's gonna be one of the last nails in Microsoft's coffin...I WILL buy it the moment it's released...GO APPLE!

1. Apple has already phased out the DVD writer on the low-end Macbook and Mac Mini. They have the innovative combo-drive. Apple ahead of the curve.

2. Why would yet-another-subnotebook (Sony have done these for yonks) be the final nail in Microsoft's coffin? Microsoft do not produce laptops of any flavour. You can run Microsoft's XP and Vista on Apple just as well as on any Sony, HP, Dell or Gateway, so why should Redmond care tuppence about another niche product?

Sound Evolution
Nov 12, 2007, 06:39 PM
Oh please.... let it be with a optical drive.. I was just fine with something like the old powerbook g4 12"

I'm traveling a lot with publick transport and I need a all in one laptop for my work that can replace a desktop. The current 13" macbook is just to heavy and slight to big to be real portable. I don't want to live without optical drive. I like to burn DVD's or CD's when I'm on travle. I even like to watch DVD's if I'm in my hotel for work.

Everytime I hold my Girlfriends old 12" powerbook I'm jaloes.. It is exactly all I need in size.

I don't get how people can be so easy without optical drive. I truly wished apple can be smarter then everyone else and make something stunning flat and small with optical drive... :D :apple: I'm I alone here with that wish??

Regards,
Bas

CommodityFetish
Nov 12, 2007, 06:45 PM
Is anyone out there really hankering for a lighter MacBook?

Me! I want MacBook prices (or $1500 more realistically), no optical drive, lighter, better battery use, 13" screen, full size keyboard. :)

It seems like the NAND-Flash idea is to have both Flash and a HD - at least that's what I remember from earlier rumors about Robeson / Santa Rosa machines. OS on the Flash, storage on the HD. It works for me... How much memory does OSX need on a hard drive?

I bet they have a dedicated graphics card - that's the big complaint about the Macbooks, and it would drive a ginormous external screen for all you pro users. There's your price differentiation from the Macbook. Or maybe not if they're going for battery life...

I would think it would be at least as powerful as a Macbook, if not moreso - you use the extra space freed up by the optical drive to make this work...

CommodityFetish
Nov 12, 2007, 06:48 PM
Oh, and this would be my primary computer. Maybe I could get an external screen for home use?

(already use external keyboard & trackball with my PBG4)

Manatee
Nov 12, 2007, 06:49 PM
It's interesting to see all the different interpretations of what this thing might be. We're all over the "map" -- from powerful PDAs to full-power notebooks in a small package. Product positioning is everywhere from below the MacBook to primo subnote in the MacBook Pro tier. $799 to $3000. Some are begging for an optical drive, while others are glad it's (possibly) been pared out of the package. Some want a 10" screen and compressed keyboard, while others want 13" with a full-size keyboard.

Like everyone else, I have my personal hopes and feature preferences, but I respect everyone's take on this thing, and I'm enjoying reading the different perspectives and predictions. It will be fun to see what shows up, if it even really appears in January.

Cybergypsy
Nov 12, 2007, 06:51 PM
What ever it is I WANT one!!!!

bushman1
Nov 12, 2007, 06:56 PM
i rely want the memory it sounds very efficient. If i know apple they will do a great job on it, it will be affordable because it isn't a pro just a midline. what do you think of a touch screen or enhanced keypad. there has to be a larger touch screen device coming out because of their copy rited finger jesters.

CommodityFetish
Nov 12, 2007, 07:09 PM
It's interesting to see all the different interpretations of what this thing might be. We're all over the "map" -- from powerful PDAs to full-power notebooks in a small package.

Yeah! Maybe there's a market for Apple to expand its product lines a bit and be more generous in the configurations they offer. Now that they're doing so well on profits and market share, perhaps they don't have to be so one-size-fits-all. Here are a few possibilities:

replacement for PB 12" (a light 13" MBP)
ultra-super-micro-nano-portable-pro expensive laptop
tablet / iPhone Biggie
mid-range tower
apple TV / Mac Mini convergence (media mac)

panamajack
Nov 12, 2007, 07:32 PM
I'm very curious to know what kind of graphics Apple is going to put into this thing. My 12" PB is nearly pushing 4 years old, but it still running Leopard great (although minus the translucent menu bar !) with 64 megs of dedicated graphics.

What would / should the equivalent setup be for 2008 ?

Here's Daring Fireballs take:

"Smaller, super-thin, lightweight MacBooks coming at Macworld Expo, says AppleInsider. How’s Apple making it so much thinner than current MacBooks? By eliminating the optical disk drive — i.e. what the iMac was to the floppy, this machine is to the CD/DVD drive. My Magic 8-ball says AppleInsider is mostly correct.

Update: I asked my Magic 8-ball if this upcoming super-thin MacBook still has a (non-Flash memory) hard disk drive, and the answer came back: “IT IS CERTAIN”. (iPod Classics have hard drives; they’re pretty thin.)"

lbjack
Nov 12, 2007, 07:32 PM
13" is definitely NOT too big, when you're talking widescreen. In terms of screen height it's about like a 10-inch 4:3. Sure, it's fine for watching movies on your tray table or tummy, but not for serious work. At 13 inches, reducing size shouldn't mean reducing the footprint. Apparently Apple agrees.

celloman
Nov 12, 2007, 07:42 PM
this may sound n00bish but, does "no optical drive" mean that the comp will have no place to put cds/dvds? or does "no optical drive" mean just that the hard drive will have no spinny things and rather have a solid state drive? :rolleyes: thx.

ps. why do solid state drives come in not very big capacities and weird numbers? ie. 64,128? do bigger ones exist? and why are they so expensive?? thx a lot! :apple:

motulist
Nov 12, 2007, 07:50 PM
this may sound n00bish but, does "no optical drive" mean that the comp will have no place to put cds/dvds? or does "no optical drive" mean just that the hard drive will have no spinny things and rather have a solid state drive? :rolleyes: thx.

ps. why do solid state drives come in not very big capacities and weird numbers? ie. 64,128? do bigger ones exist? and why are they so expensive?? thx a lot! :apple:

No optical drive means it has no place for you to stick in cd or dvd type disks.

Solid state drives are a replacement for the internal spinning hard drive where all the files on your computer are stored.

MacinDoc
Nov 12, 2007, 07:51 PM
I bet they have a dedicated graphics card - that's the big complaint about the Macbooks, and it would drive a ginormous external screen for all you pro users.

/snip/

I would think it would be at least as powerful as a Macbook, if not moreso - you use the extra space freed up by the optical drive to make this work...
Won't happen in an ultraportable where the concern is heat production. Sorry, no dedicated graphics, and a low-power CPU.

celloman
Nov 12, 2007, 08:12 PM
No optical drive means it has no place for you to stick in cd or dvd type disks.

Solid state drives are a replacement for the internal spinning hard drive where all the files on your computer are stored.

thanks for the clarification!

Wild-Bill
Nov 12, 2007, 08:22 PM
Won't happen in an ultraportable where the concern is heat production. Sorry, no dedicated graphics, and a low-power CPU.

If there is to be no dedicated graphics in this ultraportable, they should refrain from calling it "Pro" then, IMO. :eek:

Val-kyrie
Nov 12, 2007, 08:24 PM
I'm really hoping for the best GPU they can cram in the space and not drain the battery.

Perhaps this is just wishful thinking, but it would be nice if Apple would use a hybrid gfx system like some of the Sonys--x3100 for power saving and 8400M (or something similar) for graphics processing power. Now only if Apple could switch between the two without having to restart the computer (the problem with the Sony design).

Roller
Nov 12, 2007, 08:28 PM
The target audience for this will be people who need a lightweight (no more than 3 pounds) Mac that can keep going through a cross-country flight and handle most "business productivity" software. With LED backlighting, flash memory storage, and the like, it's not going to be cheap, but I bet it'll sell. I'll buy one. :)

The interesting question is whether there will be a separate "ultra-portable" in between a laptop and the iPhone/iPod touch.

dabirdwell
Nov 12, 2007, 09:43 PM
So, could this conceivably use flash memory to hold all of OSX and a sizable caching buffer for both the OS and the active applications, so that there are (almost) never swap files on a HD?

I can see this contributing to battery life in a huge way for mobile productivity use. If Photoshop loads up your 1GB file into cache and never has to go back to the HD while you're working on it, and all of OSX runs out of the cache, then damn, it seems like speed and power efficiency all in one.

How big would the flash space have to be in order to accommodate this under a majority of portable applications? 16GB? 32?

Maybe we see a product differentiation here- if you only use Word, Keynote, Mail, Safari, and iTunes, then buy the one with a 16GB solid state drive. But if you're using something much more demanding, then go for the more expensive model. Maybe a 16, 32, 64. 64GB of space would sure let some mobile video warriors edit small spots on the scene. And fast.

Maybe I'm crazy-

iEdd
Nov 12, 2007, 09:58 PM
Didn't apple patent a couple of optical drive ideas, either under the keyboard or on the back of the laptop? At least then you wouldn't have to cart around an external and find somewhere to plug in.

I hope this doesn't end up being a crippled macbook, with "pro" tacked on it, with half the specs and double the price.

(L)
Nov 12, 2007, 10:25 PM
OK. Very exciting.

I can't be bothered to read 200 posts, but one of the big questions I hope has been mentioned is this:

Is this a tablet, or no?

If it is, that probably ups the price point. If not, which might seem more likely with the odd-sounding trackpad, then this would almost have to be sandwiched between the MacBooks and MBPs. Yet, being that small and something weird about the trackpad leads me to believe this product is not simply being squeezed in there, but rather, Apple is doing some new and interesting things that are appropriate for a new niche.

Apple being hot with touchscreen technology and a 13" format being perfect for a tablet gives reason to hope. I don't personally hope in that direction, since it'd probably cost like 1800? Sounds good, so it must be expensive. :(

TurboSC
Nov 12, 2007, 10:51 PM
I think Apple is laughing it up because everyone thinks it's going to be the same old same old.

There will definitely be an update to the MacBookPro line, and quite frankly the slimmed down sub-compact will probably fall under this update.

I have a feeling there's something bigger and unexpected around the corner, and I hope I'm right... because a Tablet would be uber sweet.

CatharticFlux
Nov 12, 2007, 11:22 PM
Exciting as the idea of a revolutionary multi-touch tablet with a solid-state drive is... I'd take just small and well-engineered.

I'm on board with the lack of an optical drive. I just don't remember the last time I used one on the road. I'm on board with using the 1.8" form-factor HDs used in iPod Classics. A multi-touch touchpad would be cute, but not if it means $500 more. A high pixel density LCD screen would certainly be welcome. Give me 802.11n, a couple of gigs of ram and one of the spiffy 160 HDDs that the iPods are carrying and we can color this sold. :D

CatharticFlux
Nov 12, 2007, 11:24 PM
delete...

CatharticFlux
Nov 12, 2007, 11:26 PM
.

hayduke
Nov 12, 2007, 11:59 PM
Exciting as the idea of a revolutionary multi-touch tablet with a solid-state drive is... I'd take just small and well-engineered.

I'm on board with the lack of an optical drive. I just don't remember the last time I used one on the road. I'm on board with using the 1.8" form-factor HDs used in iPod Classics. A multi-touch touchpad would be cute, but not if it means $500 more. A high pixel density LCD screen would certainly be welcome. Give me 802.11n, a couple of gigs of ram and one of the spiffy 160 HDDs that the iPods are carrying and we can color this sold. :D

I agree, except I don't think the iPod drives would work well for a laptop. The size is nice, but they are designed for the near constant read/write that a laptop requires. They are "read occasionally, write rarely" drives.

Fingers crossed for something small. I have a MacPro, so I don't need my laptop to be as powerful.

catlair
Nov 13, 2007, 12:11 AM
Apple can't be serious! I'll be one of the first to buy an ultra light 13 or 12" BUT without an optical CD/DVD drive it will be a bumper. Guess I may just stick to my trusty PB 15"... :-(

tveric
Nov 13, 2007, 12:45 AM
Why would you need an optical drive when a 4 GB USB flash drive costs $20, and in a year a 16GB flash drive will probably cost $20?

This is Apple ahead of the curve, if the rumor is true, and if eliminating the optical drive means a smaller, thinner laptop, then I'm all for it.

If you don't own a desktop Mac, and don't want to shell out $$ for an external optical drive, then this ultra-thin Mac isn't for you, that's all. Even so, optical drives will go the way of the floppy drive, eventually. Just a matter of when, not if. They're already unnecessary for many of us, myself included.

Clancycoop
Nov 13, 2007, 12:51 AM
Could someone who has used a Tablet or likes them tell me what they can be used for? The only thing that comes to mind is a Doctor using it instead of a clipboard... and that is probably not even right. :)

I am just curious what their application is, as it seems many people on here would love for them to make a tablet.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Catonow
Nov 13, 2007, 01:15 AM
Frankly, if the rumors are true, this will be a dream come true.

I'd gladly sacrifice a CD/DVD drive in exchange for greater portability. If you really need to burn DVDs on the road, you can always throw an external drive in your bag. They're small and cheap nowadays. Or... you can buy one of five other laptop models offered by Apple which all contain Super Drives. But I'd wager that most laptop users don't burn DVDs or CDs all that often, and won't miss it much at all.

Pace ParisParamus, I'm really excited to see that the new thingamajig is (rumored, at least) to be a lot lighter. I personally think that weight is a greater factor in portability than the overall dimensions. I need a full-size keyboard, so I wouldn't want anything much smaller than 13". But just try slogging through airport security and changing terminals during a stop-over while dragging a carry-on bag and lugging a 5-pound laptop over your shoulder -- well, getting a fully functional laptop on a diet would make my life a lot easier, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Would love to have a solid-state drive, even if overall memory won't be too impressive. I really like the notion of almost-instant booting up, it will increase portability all the more. I do hope that the new family member doesn't sacrifice too much graphics capability, though I'm a realist and understand the heat and size tradeoffs, and I'd probably ultimately settle for something on par with a x3100, at minimum.

As for price, sorry everybody, but if memory serves, the 12" Powerbooks weren't much cheaper than the 15" models, and cost more than the highest-end iBooks. I'm expecting the lowest-end model to come in at about $1800 -- and even though I'm far from a wealthy man, I'm willing to pay a premium for portability plus functionality. Smaller doesn't always mean cheaper, and most consumers get that.

fafner
Nov 13, 2007, 02:26 AM
Could someone who has used a Tablet or likes them tell me what they can be used for? The only thing that comes to mind is a Doctor using it instead of a clipboard... and that is probably not even right. :)

I am just curious what their application is, as it seems many people on here would love for them to make a tablet.

Thanks for your thoughts.

A Tablet is not for everyone but my rational is described in the Tablet thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=382558) post #78 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4452476#post4452476) and #176 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4461465#post4461465 ).

timmillwood
Nov 13, 2007, 05:09 AM
i dont really mind loosing my optical drive, because the only time i need one is when im in the house where i can plug in an external one.

BUT it will have to be a lot smaller than other small laptops with optical drives, i have seen a few small laptops and they are tiny and light and still have an optical drive.

zedsdead
Nov 13, 2007, 05:15 AM
Here are my predictions for Macworld:

(1) Games, Radio, Copy-Paste Function, and Finder for iPhone / iPod Touch - iPhone bumped up to 16 gigs.
(2) iPhone Developers Kit
(3) iTunes '08 - Lyric Support for iPhone/iPod Touch/Apple TV, Movie Rentals with HD (720p and Surround Sound)
(4) Apple TV Update - 1080p, DVD Drive (maybe), bigger hard drive...software wise (for all original owners as well), more screensavers, Better organization for TV Shows, Chapter Selection Menu's (for iPhone/Touch as well), iTunes Store.
(5) One More Thing - Tablet Mac - no optical drive (an external will be provided), all Flash memory, touch screen.

gramarye
Nov 13, 2007, 05:39 AM
so based on these rumors, the ultra-portable mac, will only be introduced in January, and probably not be released until later quarters in the year? It's really hard to tell some times. For example, the iPhone was introduced in this years MacWorld in Janurary, however, it wasn't released until late-June. Then again, the updated and newly designed iMacs were introduced in August at Apple's private press-invited event, and released in stores by the end of the week of the event. (I believe the same time as ipods this year, as well). You guys have thoughts on when the ultra-portable mac might be released. It might just be a simple answer: any day.

Also, considering the fact there won't be an optical drive, running such programs as Final Cut wouldn't be recommended on this right? I see the priority of this project is portability, and performance not yet to reach a Pro line, that's why they'll always be there, one thing about Apple products is the apparent distinction between their product lines. (ex. iMac / MacBook vs. Mac Pro / MacBook Pro) It's nice to hear what everyones thoughts are about this, it's quite a pleasure reading the 10-pages! :D

A side note: While Apple releases these updates so frequently, I find it very difficult when to buy a product, such as the MacBook and MacBook Pro. It has been constantly updating according to the helpful Buyer's Guide. I've made the mistake in December of 2005 when I purchased an iMac G5 PPC and later find out in less than two weeks (January 2006), the iMacs were completely updated with Intel architecture with Dual-Core or Core 2 Duo(?) processing, updated hard drives, memory, pretty much everything beneficial for the hardware, and iLife '06 as well. The benchmarks of the Intel vs. PPC were such a landslide. Do you guys have personal preferences on when you drop the ball and buy? I know, I know, the waiting game will always be there, it's technology, anything could be outdated soon, even tomorrow. Anyway, sorry for ending up on rambling, thanks for your time. MacRumors is awesome!

Martin C
Nov 13, 2007, 05:48 AM
Here are my predictions for Macworld:

(1) Games, Radio, Copy-Paste Function, and Finder for iPhone / iPod Touch - iPhone bumped up to 16 gigs.
(2) iPhone Developers Kit
(3) iTunes '08 - Lyric Support for iPhone/iPod Touch/Apple TV, Movie Rentals with HD (720p and Surround Sound)
(4) Apple TV Update - 1080p, DVD Drive (maybe), bigger hard drive...software wise (for all original owners as well), more screensavers, Better organization for TV Shows, Chapter Selection Menu's (for iPhone/Touch as well), iTunes Store.
(5) One More Thing - Tablet Mac - no optical drive (an external will be provided), all Flash memory, touch screen.
Why make the Apple TV 1080p if you're only going to give it 720p content from iTunes and a standard definition DVD drive?