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MacRumors
Nov 12, 2007, 02:15 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Google has released (http://code.google.com/android/) the software development kit for Android - a mobile platform announced by Google (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/05/google-announces-android-mobile-platform-google-phones/) last week.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/11/12/and1_300.png


Documentation and first look videos are offered through (http://code.google.com/android/) the Android Project page. Most interesting, perhaps, is the Android Demo video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FJHYqE0RDg) which walks through prototype Android devices. Both a smaller and more advanced prototypes of Android phones are shown. They demonstrate functionality as well as detail capabilities as shown here:


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/11/12/and2_300.png


Android's web browser is based on Webkit (http://webkit.org/) which also powers Apple's Safari browser. This means that web pages will render the same on Android's browser and Safari. Zooming/Scrolling with a touch interface is also supported as shown in the demo.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/11/12/and3_300.png

3d OpenGL support, as shown by a demo of id software's Quake.

The demo video shows other capabilities, such as tight integration into Google Maps. The first commercial phones based on the Android platform are not expected until the second half of 2008. Unlike the iPhone, the Android platform appears to emphasize openness and is encouraging of 3rd party application development. Despite early plans to keep the iPhone closed to 3rd party development, Apple has announced (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/17/steve-jobs-announces-3rd-party-sdk-for-iphone-for-february-2008/) that a 3rd party development kit will become available for the iPhone in February 2008, though what restrictions it may likely entail are not yet known.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/12/first-look-at-googles-android-mobile-platform/)



a1016neo
Nov 12, 2007, 02:16 PM
Looks similar to the iphone. :apple:

DiamondMac
Nov 12, 2007, 02:17 PM
I will be interested to see how it does at first

noodle654
Nov 12, 2007, 02:18 PM
Tubular

Bonte
Nov 12, 2007, 02:18 PM
Ow man, i can see Apple offering a dual boot or something, this is cool. :eek:

Unspeaked
Nov 12, 2007, 02:18 PM
Looks like a good start...

kainjow
Nov 12, 2007, 02:18 PM
It's good news for Safari users since it uses WebKit, which means more developers working on improving it.

Drumjim85
Nov 12, 2007, 02:18 PM
competition is a great thing ... and it will only make apple work harder to deliver better products

arn
Nov 12, 2007, 02:21 PM
I think this will be big competition to the iPhone. You can see what kind of developer community sprouted up for the iPhone... I think with encouragement, a more massive one will easily appear for Android.

arn

Nabooly
Nov 12, 2007, 02:21 PM
Wait....didn't google say a couple of days ago that its only going to be providing software, and not actual devices? :confused:

dr_lha
Nov 12, 2007, 02:23 PM
The biggest problem I've seen so far with this is on one of the screenshots not posted here which shows a menu. Plain and simple, pull down menus don't belong on mobile phones. Microsoft hasn't figured this out yet, I would have hoped that Google would. Maybe they're not very prevalent, overall this looks nice I'd say.

aLoC
Nov 12, 2007, 02:27 PM
Apple showed prototypes of the Mac to Microsoft and they stole it. Now Google is doing the same with the iPhone. Back stabbers.

plumbingandtech
Nov 12, 2007, 02:31 PM
the lack of a double tapping to zoom really held back the maps demo.

Looks like more competition to windows mobile then the iphone in the overall scheme of things, at least in the short term.



No elegance what so ever though, and when the phone companies switch out their dialers etc.. with their custom version we are looking at something that will prob. sell more units then the iphone (read cheaper) but will look like kitchen with too many cooks in it.

Yah. There will be the people here that will be smart enough to swamp out the bad stuff. (if allowed. i know google says they can but...) but most people will simply use the default sprint-verizon style retracted apps and interfaces... to make it look like a fancy razor.

queshy
Nov 12, 2007, 02:31 PM
Completely opposite attitude for the iPhone: Google is giving away $10 M to write the best apps, and it seems like Apple is trying to STOP us from unlocking, and in some cases, bricking iPhones.

I think this is great for Apple. It will force them to work harder with the future progression of the iPhone. Without Android, they might have just let the iPhone stay as is for a year or 2 before giving it some updates (why should it have to if it's so far ahead of the market?) - but now with android, I think we'll be seeing more incremental updates to stay in competition with android.

iPhoneHome
Nov 12, 2007, 02:32 PM
this is the first software/device that could actually give the iPhone some SERIOUS competition...I own a iPhone and i found myself really interested in purchasing this! Apple needs to re-market itself very soon, and give us some features that are very much wanted/needed.

dashiel
Nov 12, 2007, 02:32 PM
i really want to like this, open source, google, encouraging developers from the word go, but everything i've seen so far doesn't give me much hope. by the time hardware starts arriving the iphone will have close to 10 million installed units and had their SDK out for almost as long as android -- not to mention be up to 3g (you could tell that was their big "we're better than the iphone" plug).

more power to them, competition is great, but so far this isn't a patch on the iphone

fowler.
Nov 12, 2007, 02:33 PM
Apple showed prototypes of the Mac to Microsoft and they stole it. Now Google is doing the same with the iPhone. Back stabbers.

are you high? what exactly have they "stolen"?

Stella
Nov 12, 2007, 02:33 PM
The initial screenshots / details are encouraging. The Google platform could offer a great platform, including more competition. This should help improve all existing cell phone platforms.

Apple showed prototypes of the Mac to Microsoft and they stole it. Now Google is doing the same with the iPhone. Back stabbers.

Its a fact of life - companies gain inspiration from each other, including Apple ( who have also copied others). Evolution of products - improving upon existing, seeing a potential opportunity where there is a gap in the market. Google think they have seen one. ( I don't consider Google to have stolen anything from Apple ).

psychofreak
Nov 12, 2007, 02:33 PM
Wait....didn't google say a couple of days ago that its only going to be providing software, and not actual devices? :confused:Yes, this is just for show...

siurpeeman
Nov 12, 2007, 02:35 PM
i like the text notifications on the top menu bar. very unobtrusive.

jeremy.king
Nov 12, 2007, 02:36 PM
are you high? what exactly have they "stolen"?

that web page history viewer seems like a little Cover Flow clone

AtHomeBoy_2000
Nov 12, 2007, 02:36 PM
Looks like I'll be waiting until late next year to by a new cell phone. i want to see how this all pans out.

ParadigmABQ
Nov 12, 2007, 02:38 PM
But can it play Doom?

Novaoblivion
Nov 12, 2007, 02:38 PM
While some of this looks pretty cool being open source and all. The interface and the speed of the UI doesnt look nearly as fast as the iPhone. Hopefully it will encourage Apple to open up the iPhone a little more though :).

psychofreak
Nov 12, 2007, 02:38 PM
that web page history viewer seems like a little Cover Flow clone

Its just as much Cover Flow as Flip3D...

ruckus
Nov 12, 2007, 02:38 PM
looks good! I'm pretty excited over this whole initiative.

illegalprelude
Nov 12, 2007, 02:39 PM
i wasnt that impressed? Maybe its too early to judge but the iPhone seems way more elegant and functional.

plumbingandtech
Nov 12, 2007, 02:39 PM
that web page history viewer seems like a little Cover Flow clone

Yah that was actually embarrasing.

The worst is yet to happen as many Android Devs are going to just copy what apple does with the iphone as far as UI whenever possible.

i wasnt that impressed? Maybe its too early to judge but the iPhone seems way more elegant and functional.

Yah me too. It will good for apple to have competition blah blah but this is what I expected. Meh. It just looks like a bunch of palm developer apps but on a new platform.

MarcelV
Nov 12, 2007, 02:39 PM
....found myself really interested in purchasing this!Just curious why? What has Google shown on their prototypes that you don't have on the iPhone? I really don't get the hype around Android (yet).

psychofreak
Nov 12, 2007, 02:41 PM
looks good! I'm pretty excited over this whole initiative.

Its either going to be a flop or an industry changer...I hope its the latter...

MacsRgr8
Nov 12, 2007, 02:41 PM
are you high? what exactly have they "stolen"?

Just the look and feel of it all. :rolleyes:

But, they couldn"t use the multi-touch interface.... Zooming was a button on the side.
But it's good that the iPhone gets some serious competition. Apple has done the hard work of making the iPhone OS nice and stable (tnx to the iPhone dev team..) and starting February the developers can start making some real cool apps.
It's going to be a cool 2008 regarding mobile devices ala iPhone....

puckhead193
Nov 12, 2007, 02:42 PM
apple legal has some work to do in the next few months...
I wonder how this will effect their relationship

aLoC
Nov 12, 2007, 02:42 PM
I don't consider Google to have stolen anything from Apple

It's a pretty big coincidence then. Shortly after co-operating with Apple to put Google Maps on the iPhone they suddenly come out with their own mobile platform.

That dark dock with white outline looks suspiciously Leopard like. And the address book icon, and the browser is Webkit based. If not stolen then strongly-inspired.

Stella
Nov 12, 2007, 02:42 PM
Just curious why? What has Google shown on their prototypes that you don't have on the iPhone? I really don't get the hype around Android (yet).

Its the concept. A lot of manufacturers and carries are already on board. Its open source and therefore will attract a lot of devs to improve. Thus the platform is completely open and encourages 3rd party applications and the like.

How is this different to Symbian, Blackberry et al? Not a lot -but the platform will be more ( potential of ) mass market, and of course, increased competition.

Unspeaked
Nov 12, 2007, 02:43 PM
Just curious why? What has Google shown on their prototypes that you don't have on the iPhone? I really don't get the hype around Android (yet).

Besides the fact that Google has a pretty nice track record with their web interfaces and products, I'm guessing this is of such huge interest to folks (even at these preliminary stages) because it's open to the other, oh, 65% of mobile users in the US that don't have AT&T and the millions upon millions in other parts of the world...

narco
Nov 12, 2007, 02:44 PM
I know that Apple plans on releasing an SDK for the iPhone, but a lot of people are worried that it'll be extremely limited. I wonder if Google encourages outside development and the threat of more people using their services, Apple will reconsider locking down the phone at all.

I hope!

Fishes,
narco.

Unspeaked
Nov 12, 2007, 02:45 PM
It's a pretty big coincidence then. Shortly after co-operating with Apple to put Google Maps on the iPhone they suddenly come out with their own mobile platform.

That dark dock with white outline looks suspiciously Leopard like. And the address book icon, and the browser is Webkit based. If not stolen then strongly-inspired.


Comments like this are the reason we're known as zealots...

:(

adam.tropics
Nov 12, 2007, 02:47 PM
Completely opposite attitude for the iPhone: Google is giving away $10 M to write the best apps,
..

I hope someone forwarded the details to the nice folks at Adblock!

aLoC
Nov 12, 2007, 02:49 PM
Comments like this are the reason we're known as zealots...

:(

No, comments like yours are the reason we're known as zealots. I made some factual observations, which is not very zealot like. You simply called me a name, which is very zealot like.

Stella
Nov 12, 2007, 02:49 PM
It's a pretty big coincidence then. Shortly after co-operating with Apple to put Google Maps on the iPhone they suddenly come out with their own mobile platform.

That dark dock with white outline looks suspiciously Leopard like. And the address book icon, and the browser is Webkit based. If not stolen then strongly-inspired.

There have been rumours of this for months and months ( a gPhone). It takes time to develop something like this and I wouldn't be surprised if work had started long before the iPhone was announced.

Anyway, so what if Google chooses to get into the cell phone O/S business - I don't understand why people are getting so upset. People saying Google are copying Apple- its a bit two faced - because Apple have copied ideas on numerous times. Its OK for Apple to copy, but not others copying from Apple - if this really is the case?

Keep perspective...

Personally I find the UI similar to SE P800 - just by turning that task bar upside down....

lazyrighteye
Nov 12, 2007, 02:59 PM
Yes!
Competition is good. And not near as threatening to the iPhone as some seem to think.

If Android really won't see the light of day until late '08 (I somehow doubt it's that far off), and with Apple opening up the iPhone to 3rd party development (the more wide open, the better), the iPhone could (in theory) have a solid 6 months of 3rd party developers working their magic, 3G and who knows what else. Factor that solid year of "iPhones in the wild" under their belts, and the super tight integration with the Mac OS (more so than, say, Vista) and I'm pretty sure Apple is still sitting very pretty.

If anything, or at the very least, this may force Apple to open up the iPhone platform further/faster than if Android did not exist.
Strength in numbers, the more the merrier, or something...

Steck
Nov 12, 2007, 03:01 PM
As an addition to this neat story.. and making it more Apple related.. ;)

The presenter in the "Androidology" videos is clearly using an Apple Infared Remote for presentation control :D :apple:

aLoC
Nov 12, 2007, 03:01 PM
Anyway, so what if Google chooses to get into the cell phone O/S business - I don't understand why people are getting so upset. People saying Google are copying Apple- its a bit two faced - because Apple have copied ideas on numerous times. Its OK for Apple to copy, but not others copying from Apple - if this really is the case?

I'm not getting upset, if you could see me you would see I'm cool as a cucumber. Merely pointing out that this is history repeating. Apple shared the Mac prototypes with Microsoft so that Microsoft could port their apps to it. Shortly after Microsoft came out with Windows - they had secretly copied everything they saw.

Now, with Google, Apple co-operated with them to get Google Maps and Gmail on to the iPhone. Probably Google have had iPhone prototypes for 2 years. Now they bring out their own Phone OS that looks very Apple-like in many respects. It is a very similar to what happened with Microsoft.

twoodcc
Nov 12, 2007, 03:02 PM
i like it, but not as much as i do my iPhone ;)

notjustjay
Nov 12, 2007, 03:03 PM
apple legal has some work to do in the next few months...
I wonder how this will effect their relationship

Yeah. They really should communicate more so they'll find out quickly if one company is copying from the other. Hey, I have an idea. Maybe someone from Google should sit on Apple's board of directors. Maybe even the CEO??

All kidding aside, as long as someone brings it to Canada, I'll buy one.

Telp
Nov 12, 2007, 03:03 PM
Its interesting. I dont like it though. It doesnt look nice, it looks like any other windows mobil broswer.

overcast
Nov 12, 2007, 03:04 PM
I'm not getting upset, if you could see me you would see I'm cool as a cucumber. Merely pointing out that this is history repeating. Apple shared the Mac prototypes with Microsoft so that Microsoft could port their apps to it. Shortly after Microsoft came out with Windows - they had secretly copied everything they saw.

Now, with Google, Apple co-operated with them to get Google Maps and Gmail on to the iPhone. Probably Google have had iPhone prototypes for 2 years. Now they bring out their own Phone OS that looks very Apple-like in many respects. It is a very similar to what happened with Microsoft.
Oh I forgot, Apple invented the GUI. I also forgot , Xerox Corp stole it from them.

ricosuave
Nov 12, 2007, 03:05 PM
It would be nice if Apple incorporated the StreetView function in my iPhone. I found that was kind of cool.

Also, they showed their 3g speeds but did not show the phone using wifi. They also did not mention the battery life on the 3g network.

blufire
Nov 12, 2007, 03:08 PM
I think Google is doing "good things" with Android, but two things I noticed from the video:

*Screen updates in the browser were painfully slow during finger dragging. Dragging that zoomed-in web page around showed a lot of choppy delay. Many navigation and interface elements looked "un-fluid," and I think a lot of it is because Google can't (or doesn't want to) copy some things that Apple did.

*The talk about how "the best apps are yet to come" and "we're really excited about this" reminded me of Apple marketing and WWDC.

Call me a zealot, but these just stuck out to me. :P

grappler
Nov 12, 2007, 03:09 PM
Awesome. In a year's time, if the iPhone isn't sufficiently open and ahead of the curve, there's another place I can go.

That very fact will likely be just what is needed to keep the iPhone open and ahead of the curve.

gmanrique
Nov 12, 2007, 03:09 PM
and neither anybody else in this thread. When Apple announced the iPhone, they showed the product already working with the Google maps integration etc., and as you said, it takes months to develop.

Now, I am not saying that the whole idea of Google 'stealing' from Apple makes sense either. I am just commenting on a specific point of your post.

There have been rumours of this for months and months ( a gPhone). It takes time to develop something like this and I wouldn't be surprised if work had started long before the iPhone was announced.

Anyway, so what if Google chooses to get into the cell phone O/S business - I don't understand why people are getting so upset. People saying Google are copying Apple- its a bit two faced - because Apple have copied ideas on numerous times. Its OK for Apple to copy, but not others copying from Apple - if this really is the case?

Keep perspective...

Personally I find the UI similar to SE P800 - just by turning that task bar upside down....

Aftershock
Nov 12, 2007, 03:10 PM
I actually see this as both Apple and Google ganging up on M$. Think about it, Android is Linux based, iPhone is OSX, both *NIX variants. Apple provides Google "insights" for their Android platform. Google pays their 10M in developer "R&D" which fruits can be easily ported to iPhone. Exciting times!!

blufire
Nov 12, 2007, 03:10 PM
It would be nice if Apple incorporated the StreetView function in my iPhone. I found that was kind of cool.

Also, they showed their 3g speeds but did not show the phone using wifi. They also did not mention the battery life on the 3g network.
Street view: agreed. It's just a Google Maps feature, so I suspect it shouldn't be hard to incorporate.

They can't talk about battery life since they're not showing off any particular hardware; only the software capabilities. WiFi would also depend on the phone you're using.

Cronikeys
Nov 12, 2007, 03:13 PM
...so when does the Apple search engine come out?

Seriously though, I don't know how practical some of these features are... what's the battery life on this thing? Ten minutes?

Also, everyone is comparing this to 1.1.1 iPhones... by the time this reaches the mass public the iPhone OS will probably be 1.5 at least, not to mention the official software development kit.

As for the Quake demo, clearly we are missing who Google is really attacking with this: Nintendo! Ha ha...

JackAxe
Nov 12, 2007, 03:14 PM
Bleh, no PPC version of the SDK. I'll just have to use my PC for a few, which annoys me!

<]=)

aLoC
Nov 12, 2007, 03:16 PM
Show any computer user off the street that GUI and ask them who designed it. They will say Apple.

Telp
Nov 12, 2007, 03:18 PM
Seriously though, I don't know how practical some of these features are... what's the battery life on this thing? Ten minutes?

When the iPhone came out, everyone said the same thing. I understand you dont like it. I dont like it much either, but let them go along with it, and who knows maybe it will be a great sucess. Dont stoop to the levels of apple haters.

incoherent1
Nov 12, 2007, 03:18 PM
Exactly what do they mean by "open source?" Presumably because they're not building their own hardware, they're using phones that would otherwise run Windows Mobile (or Palm or something else), only erased that and installed Andriod.

Does that mean that I could erase WM6 from my smartphone and install this or would I have to buy a new phone with it installed?

I'd be happy to install it over WM6 (which sux), but I don't know that I'd pay money for it (I'd just buy an iPhone)...

gmanrique
Nov 12, 2007, 03:22 PM
"Despite early plans to keep the iPhone closed to 3rd party development..."

I still don't get this, and I though it was just a hardcore-hackers thing, oh and the admin guy from 9to5mac, but apparently the mods/admins in this sites also think that way.

If I remember correctly from January 2007 when the iPhone was announced, Apple said the iPhone will have web development offered since day 1, and that they were working on a secure way to provide proper or better tools for third party development. But now, it seems like a lot of mac-blogs readers think that the noise of a bunch of hackers complaining about their bricked phones is what made Apple to quickly come up with an SDK so these group would not be so upset. I mean, seriously, what's up with that? Do you really think a company like Apple will work that way?

SiliconAddict
Nov 12, 2007, 03:28 PM
Looks similar to the iphone. :apple:

Yah and the iPhone looks similar to the LG KE850 that came out first. What's your point?

"Despite early plans to keep the iPhone closed to 3rd party development..."

I still don't get this, and I though it was just a hardcore-hackers thing, oh and the admin guy from 9to5mac, but apparently the mods/admins in this sites also think that way.

If I remember correctly from January 2007 when the iPhone was announced, Apple said the iPhone will have web development offered since day 1, and that they were working on a secure way to provide proper or better tools for third party development. But now, it seems like a lot of mac-blogs readers think that the noise of a bunch of hackers complaining about their bricked phones is what made Apple to quickly come up with an SDK so these group would not be so upset. I mean, seriously, what's up with that? Do you really think a company like Apple will work that way?


Web development != real development tools and you dang well know that. Its a piss poor solution by Apple at best. They have backpedaled FAST on this though because its one of if not THE biggest complaint about the iCrap. However AFAIK they have yet to announce that they would be putting out real development tools for the iCrap. When that happens, and ONLY when that happens can someone claim that tools are on the horizon. Until then its vaporware.

Cronikeys
Nov 12, 2007, 03:30 PM
I dont like it much either, but let them go along with it, and who knows maybe it will be a great sucess. Dont stoop to the levels of apple haters.

Well I was actually just remembering the Game Gear... amazing graphics that totally blew away the Game Boy: color! back-lit! better processor! Meanwhile Game Boy still won the mobile gaming console war due to seven times the battery life... also the bulkiness of the Game Gear didn't help much either.

I love both Apple and Google... rather than competing or pirating, I see this as evolution through natural selection. May the best features triumph!

Stella
Nov 12, 2007, 03:30 PM
Exactly what do they mean by "open source?" Presumably because they're not building their own hardware, they're using phones that would otherwise run Windows Mobile (or Palm or something else), only erased that and installed Andriod.

Does that mean that I could erase WM6 from my smartphone and install this or would I have to buy a new phone with it installed?

I'd be happy to install it over WM6 (which sux), but I don't know that I'd pay money for it (I'd just buy an iPhone)...

No.

Its up to manufacturers to build the phones that will run the Google OS. Its probably unlikely that your existing smartphone will run it.

winterspan
Nov 12, 2007, 03:33 PM
While some of this looks pretty cool being open source and all. The interface and the speed of the UI doesnt look nearly as fast as the iPhone. Hopefully it will encourage Apple to open up the iPhone a little more though :).

There are a million comments like this on youtube too. What you are ALL MISSING is that they are showing prototype hardware running prototype software. I can guarantee if you saw a early iPhone, it would be NOWHERE NEAR as responsive or polished as it is now. Does no one understand the concept of a *PROTOTYPE* anymore?

winterspan
Nov 12, 2007, 03:36 PM
apple legal has some work to do in the next few months...
I wonder how this will effect their relationship

oh give me a break. It was hardly an iPhone ripoff. There are only so many ways to design a touch interface. I'm sure the android platform will be similar to the UI concepts found in iPhone, but to talk about lawyers and lawsuits? are you kidding?

winterspan
Nov 12, 2007, 03:37 PM
That dark dock with white outline looks suspiciously Leopard like. And the address book icon, and the browser is Webkit based. If not stolen then strongly-inspired.

hahaha. "the browser is WebKit based". Since when did Apple own WebKit?? Do you seriously know how many companies use a webkit based browser? The only other decent foundation is Opera, which is not open source.

Compile 'em all
Nov 12, 2007, 03:39 PM
The current Android SDK doesn't support PPC machines, only intel Macs :(

winterspan
Nov 12, 2007, 03:41 PM
I'm not getting upset, if you could see me you would see I'm cool as a cucumber. Merely pointing out that this is history repeating. Apple shared the Mac prototypes with Microsoft so that Microsoft could port their apps to it. Shortly after Microsoft came out with Windows - they had secretly copied everything they saw.

Now, with Google, Apple co-operated with them to get Google Maps and Gmail on to the iPhone. Probably Google have had iPhone prototypes for 2 years. Now they bring out their own Phone OS that looks very Apple-like in many respects. It is a very similar to what happened with Microsoft.

Yes, it's all a conspiracy to bury Apple. You better start a blog...

dukeblue91
Nov 12, 2007, 03:41 PM
I guess now we know why Apple is going to bring out the SDK for the iPhone.
Considering that one of the Google CEO's is sitting on the Apple board, I'm sure
Steve knew all about the feature set before it became public. If not Google may want to use that $10 Mil for lawyer fees. :D

ChrisA
Nov 12, 2007, 03:44 PM
Two things..

(1) I wanted to point that you (yes you) can play with this right now. They are calling it an SDK but it is more. It's the whole darn thing right on down the kernel level drivers. The whole system is downloadable from Google and it runs on most computers inside an emulator. You don't need any special phone hardware. So go get it and see for yourself, no need to look at these videos.

(2) For all those who would complain about the way it looks or the way it works. You have ALL of the code and the development system on your computer. You can fix it. No need to wait for "someone to please..." Just do it. OK maaybe most readers lask the technical skills but you could in theory make any change you can think of. And not just writting your own app like Apple will et yu do next year. With Andrios even the core features and the drivers that talk to the chips is all open

dukeblue91
Nov 12, 2007, 03:45 PM
Yah and the iPhone looks similar to the LG KE850 that came out first. What's your point?
Web development != real development tools and you dang well know that. Its a piss poor solution by Apple at best. They have backpedaled FAST on this though because its one of if not THE biggest complaint about the iCrap. However AFAIK they have yet to announce that they would be putting out real development tools for the iCrap. When that happens, and ONLY when that happens can someone claim that tools are on the horizon. Until then its vaporware.

Silicon,
What's up with that iCrap stuff?
Why so much hate for the iPhone?
The iPhone is still the best device out there for what it is, open or not.

aLoC
Nov 12, 2007, 03:47 PM
hahaha. "the browser is WebKit based". Since when did Apple own WebKit?? Do you seriously know how many companies use a webkit based browser? The only other decent foundation is Opera, which is not open source.

I think you are confusing WebKit and Mozilla. Mozilla is the most popular open source browser engine, used by Firefox. Apple decided to adopt KHTML, redeveloped it extensively, and renamed it WebKit.

So WebKit is very much Apple's baby.

arn
Nov 12, 2007, 03:48 PM
"Despite early plans to keep the iPhone closed to 3rd party development..."

I still don't get this, and I though it was just a hardcore-hackers thing, oh and the admin guy from 9to5mac, but apparently the mods/admins in this sites also think that way.

I don't necessarily think that Apple changed their plans because of the hacker community, but I do think Apple may change their plans due to Android.

Regardless, Apple official stance in January was that web-apps were the only way to go. There were some offhand comments by Jobs in interviews that there may be "limited" apps coming, but this was certainly not public company policy.

Right now the iPod has "limited" 3rd party apps available to it, but it would be a stretch to say that the iPod is open to 3rd party development.

arn

Merlyn3D
Nov 12, 2007, 03:50 PM
I think this will be big competition to the iPhone. You can see what kind of developer community sprouted up for the iPhone... I think with encouragement, a more massive one will easily appear for Android.

arn

I agree. I'm excited about this not because I want to get my hands on an android phone, but rather because I don't want to see Apple get too comfortable with the iPhone in its current state. This news, to me, is more exciting simply because it will be interesting to see what Apple will do to differentiate from the Android platform....and being Apple, you know they'll do it.

Stella
Nov 12, 2007, 03:50 PM
I think you are confusing WebKit and Mozilla. Mozilla is the most popular open source browser engine, used by Firefox. Apple decided to adopt KHTML, redeveloped it extensively, and renamed it WebKit.

So WebKit is very much Apple's baby.

WebKit is used by other companies as well, and now adopted by KDE - Konq ( which used KHTML).

gkarris
Nov 12, 2007, 03:52 PM
(watches "android" videos - snoozes)

Sorry, guys, just like the Wright Brothers and Thomas Edison - if you're not the first, you're just one of many....

Windows Mobile, Prada, HTC Touch - join the iPhone copy crowd....

treblah
Nov 12, 2007, 03:56 PM
Yah and the iPhone looks similar to the LG KE850 that came out first. What's your point?

LG's Press release dated Jan. 18th, 2007 (http://www.lge.com/about/press_release/detail/PRO%7CNEWS%5EPRE%7CMENU_20328_PRE%7CMENU.jhtml), iPhone introduced Jan. 9th. But still a valid point.

aLoC
Nov 12, 2007, 04:01 PM
WebKit is used by other companies as well, and now adopted by KDE - Konq ( which used KHTML).

Yup, I believe Nokia is one of the other (major) companies. But the point is, it's just one more way that Google have leveraged off Apple here. And at what point do all the little bits of leveraging add up to outright copying? I would say they crossed some sort of line when they used a coverflow effect for the web-history. Also having a dock for the main interface is a bit on the nose.

gkarris
Nov 12, 2007, 04:03 PM
I agree. I'm excited about this not because I want to get my hands on an android phone, but rather because I don't want to see Apple get too comfortable with the iPhone in its current state. This news, to me, is more exciting simply because it will be interesting to see what Apple will do to differentiate from the Android platform....and being Apple, you know they'll do it.

yep, competition = good...

dashiel
Nov 12, 2007, 04:07 PM
(watches "android" videos - snoozes)

Sorry, guys, just like the Wright Brothers and Thomas Edison - if you're not the first, you're just one of many....

Windows Mobile, Prada, HTC Touch - join the iPhone copy crowd....

ironically of course, almost none of thomas edison's inventions were "firsts" nor were the wright brothers first at what they are so often credited with. history, like the iphone is a series of progressions; someone or something wins the history book lottery and gets labeled with "first X" or the "inventor of Y".

the iphone is an amazing amalgamation of pre-existing technology, wrapped up in a fantastic user interface, but it's hardly the first of its kind. i say that as someone who was in line on day one and has subsequently bought 2 more.

bov
Nov 12, 2007, 04:08 PM
Google vs. Apple


FIGHT!

MacTheSpoon
Nov 12, 2007, 04:08 PM
Well... it's great that Google released this phone OS, I guess, but I don't know if it will really take off. Open source OSes on computers are probably very fun for hackers to mess with and they're cool ideologically but they haven't produced the level of elegance in GUIs that Apple has. Just being open source doesn't make it superior by default, you need talented people to design things and a lot of those people work at Apple. I don't see why the same won't hold true for phones. When it comes down to it, I think Apple will continue to lead the way with interface design on their iPhones.

As for apps, hopefully Apple will let developers do 95% of what they want with their SDK release, and I don't see why they wouldn't. The main thing they will want to prevent will be theft of iTunes-purchased files (e.g. stopping people from transferring purchased songs and videos to unauthorized computers, or from streaming their music via WiFi to unauthorized computers or other iPhones/iPods). And unlocking the phone. And hacking into AT&T's network. Most apps that people want have nothing to do with any of these things and shouldn't have any problems. I think the SDK will probably be fine for most of our wants and we can look forward to some very cool apps from 3d parties.

Stella
Nov 12, 2007, 04:08 PM
Yup, I believe Nokia is one of the other (major) companies. But the point is, it's just one more way that Google have leveraged off Apple here. And at what point do all the little bits of leveraging add up to outright copying? I would say they crossed some sort of line when they used a coverflow effect for the web-history. Also having a dock for the main interface is a bit on the nose.

You could easily come up with examples of Apple where they have blatantly copied other products. But, whats the point? All companies copy each other.

phytonix
Nov 12, 2007, 04:09 PM
Although we all know Android is greatly inspired by Apple iPhone, this would definitely push Apple to open its platform.

Sad, Google already have kit for developers and Apple is still only expected to release SDK next Feb....

Virgil-TB2
Nov 12, 2007, 04:15 PM
Ow man, i can see Apple offering a dual boot or something ... What the heck are you talking about? :confused:

Your not seriously suggesting that Apple will offer Android as a boot option on the iPhone are you?

Unspeaked
Nov 12, 2007, 04:19 PM
You could easily come up with examples of Apple where they have blatantly copied other products. But, whats the point? All companies copy each other.

Quit being so objective...!!

;)

Stella
Nov 12, 2007, 04:19 PM
Quit being so objective...!!

;)

LOL :D

( open minded )

aLoC
Nov 12, 2007, 04:21 PM
You could easily come up with examples of Apple where they have blatantly copied other products. But, whats the point? All companies copy each other.

I guess they do, and then they all sue each other afterwards. So I am predicting some iminent sue-age here!

Virgil-TB2
Nov 12, 2007, 04:22 PM
I agree. I'm excited about this not because I want to get my hands on an android phone, but rather because I don't want to see Apple get too comfortable with the iPhone in its current state. This news, to me, is more exciting simply because it will be interesting to see what Apple will do to differentiate from the Android platform....and being Apple, you know they'll do it.Agreed.

The best news about Android is not about using it at all but the effect it will have on Apple and the Industry as a whole.

This development almost certainly means the death of both Windows Mobile and Palm OS, the two biggest Mobile OS competitors (at least in the smartphone market), prior to the arrival of iPhone.

Palm as a company, will likely be absorbed or die soon anyway, but the death of Windows Mobile is going to cause a lot of ripples if it does indeed occur. Already stalled on the desktop and hardly used in the server space, exiting the mobile space would make Windows almost inconsequential if not for the existing installed base (and that is already dropping as well.)

Adios Steve Balmer! :D

Daeve
Nov 12, 2007, 04:29 PM
You could easily come up with examples of Apple where they have blatantly copied other products. But, what's the point? All companies copy each other.

Indeed - Even coverflow was not Apples idea... http://www.steelskies.com/coverflow/

Google is not stupid enough to "copy" too closely and break copyright against Apple (considering the board connections) against Apples will - they have more clever lawyers I'm sure than Apple do.

But if Apple don't complain then how is it a bad thing? More choice and better user interfaces for all.

AppleiMac
Nov 12, 2007, 04:31 PM
Two things..

(1) I wanted to point that you (yes you) can play with this right now. They are calling it an SDK but it is more. It's the whole darn thing right on down the kernel level drivers. The whole system is downloadable from Google and it runs on most computers inside an emulator. You don't need any special phone hardware. So go get it and see for yourself, no need to look at these videos.

(2) For all those who would complain about the way it looks or the way it works. You have ALL of the code and the development system on your computer. You can fix it. No need to wait for "someone to please..." Just do it. OK maaybe most readers lask the technical skills but you could in theory make any change you can think of. And not just writting your own app like Apple will et yu do next year. With Andrios even the core features and the drivers that talk to the chips is all open

Wait, not just anyonecan download the SDK, right? You have to be a developer I thought.

arn
Nov 12, 2007, 04:34 PM
Wait, not just anyonecan download the SDK, right? You have to be a developer I thought.

http://code.google.com/android/download.html

download it now.

arn

Silencio
Nov 12, 2007, 04:35 PM
Agreed.

The best news about Android is not about using it at all but the effect it will have on Apple and the Industry as a whole.

This development almost certainly means the death of both Windows Mobile and Palm OS, the two biggest Mobile OS competitors (at least in the smartphone market), prior to the arrival of iPhone.

Palm as a company, will likely be absorbed or die soon anyway, but the death of Windows Mobile is going to cause a lot of ripples if it does indeed occur. Already stalled on the desktop and hardly used in the server space, exiting the mobile space would make Windows almost inconsequential if not for the existing installed base (and that is already dropping as well.)


Don't forget that Symbian is the leading smartphone OS worldwide.

Palm is still working on their new Linux-based OS, but it could very well be too late for them. Their only hope is to ship earlier in 2008 before Android-based products get out the door.

The level of competition is pretty weak, and the iPhone -- lovely as it is -- will probably always be a niche player (albeit a profitable and influential one), so Google has a pretty good opportunity here if they can deliver. One major stumbling block will be not only if Google can deliver, but if their partners can deliver, as well. HTC is a good bet on the hardware side, as they make some interesting devices that should be even more intriguing once divorced from Windows Mobile.

One thing's for sure: Sergey Brin is no Steve Jobs when it comes to giving presentations. :D

AppleiMac
Nov 12, 2007, 04:40 PM
http://code.google.com/android/download.html

download it now.

arn


That's awesome! Thanks!

deathshrub
Nov 12, 2007, 04:40 PM
Don't really see what this has to do with the mac or with rumors, which is odd considering this site is called macrumors.

cthorp
Nov 12, 2007, 04:41 PM
I would be ashamed to show a product that is such a rip-off. From the look-a-like dock to the poorly implemented cover-flow to the square icons, there is a huge lack of creativity. Of course I would not say design is not one of Googles strong suits.

Apples strength is the high level of integration. Open source, which sounds "cool" on the surface really means there will be a hodge-podge of applications without a unified design strategy. Why do you think Linux is not a mainstream OS?

dukeblue91
Nov 12, 2007, 04:47 PM
Don't really see what this has to do with the mac or with rumors, which is odd considering this site is called macrumors.

Are you for real?
You can't see the relevance of this in regards to Apple and the iPhone?
Wow :eek:

Compile 'em all
Nov 12, 2007, 04:55 PM
Yup, I believe Nokia is one of the other (major) companies. But the point is, it's just one more way that Google have leveraged off Apple here. And at what point do all the little bits of leveraging add up to outright copying?

What are you guys talking about? jeeez.

Android is a platform including the kernel, the middleware, and some basic apps. A Java byte code translator, an OpenGL 3D accelerated Lib, and some other really sick libraries in the SDK. How is developing an open mobile platform copying Apple?. Sure some of the Apps looked somehow like some of the iPhone apps, but that is not the point. The point is that there is now an extremely solid platform that both developers and manufacturers can you use. Not only use but they can all fix, improve and add to.

Windows Mobile.....rest in peace.

Compile 'em all
Nov 12, 2007, 05:04 PM
I would be ashamed to show a product that is such a rip-off. From the look-a-like dock to the poorly implemented cover-flow to the square icons, there is a huge lack of creativity. Of course I would not say design is not one of Googles strong suits.

Apples strength is the high level of integration. Open source, which sounds "cool" on the surface really means there will be a hodge-podge of applications without a unified design strategy. Why do you think Linux is not a mainstream OS?

You do understand that the open handset alliance include Intel, Qualcomm, NTT DoCoMo, Motorola, Samsung, LG, HTC, T-mobile, eBay, KDDI. These are not some little companies coming together to joke around, these are multibillion companies that are standing behind Andriod.

Regarding the "not so cool looking icons", these are just some demo apps that show what you CAN do with the platform.

cthorp
Nov 12, 2007, 05:06 PM
Yes it is a platform, but it was demoed with a rip off look and feel. That is copying. Even the guy saying he wanted to "share something he was very excited about" was ripping off a Steve Jobs line! Don't make excuses for bad presentation and shoddy creativity.

Digital Skunk
Nov 12, 2007, 05:06 PM
I hope that this OS finds its way into a Treo or Motorola phone. Windows Mobile sucks just like the Palm OS sucks. And there is no iPhone in my future that doesn't work on the Sprint network so I am stuck. I have been looking at the HTC Touch, but I don't want to be "That Guy" who has the iPhone knock off that in no way works as good.

MacEyeDoc
Nov 12, 2007, 05:12 PM
Don't forget that Symbian is the leading smartphone OS worldwide.

Palm is still working on their new Linux-based OS, but it could very well be too late for them. Their only hope is to ship earlier in 2008 before Android-based products get out the door.

The level of competition is pretty weak, and the iPhone -- lovely as it is -- will probably always be a niche player (albeit a profitable and influential one), so Google has a pretty good opportunity here if they can deliver. One major stumbling block will be not only if Google can deliver, but if their partners can deliver, as well. HTC is a good bet on the hardware side, as they make some interesting devices that should be even more intriguing once divorced from Windows Mobile.

One thing's for sure: Sergey Brin is no Steve Jobs when it comes to giving presentations. :D

Yes, the Android stuff sounds great, but who has signed on so far? The #1 handset maker (Nokia) - no - and will likely never sign on because it competes with their Symbian software. The #1 and #2 wireless carriers (Verizon and AT&T) - no. Palm? - no. Microshaft? -no. And the maker of the best phone on the market (Apple) - no.

Google good, Google cool, but iPhone cooler, and already in my hand.

Padraig
Nov 12, 2007, 05:23 PM
Yes, the Android stuff sounds great, but who has signed on so far? The #1 handset maker (Nokia) - no - and will likely never sign on because it competes with their Symbian software. The #1 and #2 wireless carriers (Verizon and AT&T) - no. Palm? - no. Microshaft? -no. And the maker of the best phone on the market (Apple) - no.

Google good, Google cool, but iPhone cooler, and already in my hand.

FYI... Nokia says Google alliance participation "not ruled out at all"

http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/06/nokia-says-google-alliance-participation-not-ruled-out-at-all/

Verizon and AT&T are only the 10th and 11th biggest mobile phone operators in the world and are pretty much confined to just the U.S.

Vidd
Nov 12, 2007, 05:29 PM
Windows Mobile sucks just like the Palm OS sucks.
I actually quite like Windows Mobile's interface although I'm using it with HTC add-ons. It's no iPhone OS but it's not intended to be.

I'd be interested in the Google OS if it supported current phones (which might be asking too much) but since that's not going to happen: no thanks.

Dagless
Nov 12, 2007, 05:30 PM
That's a bit brilliant!

I've been wanting a proper touch screen phone for years, then 2 (good) ones come along at once!

Dagless
Nov 12, 2007, 05:32 PM
But can it play Doom?

Without proper controls, can either machines play Doom :p

leigh.roy
Nov 12, 2007, 05:45 PM
My god you guys are embarrassing.

Half of you seem to act as if Steve Jobs invented the mobile phone. He didn't! Apple took existing features and made them pretty and usable. That's it.

They didn't invent Coverflow, they bought it, and really it's just a pretty version of Alt-Tab.

They didn't invent the dock, that particular UI style has been available with unix fvwm for the last 20 years probably longer.

WebKit is an open source fork of KHTML. The rendering engine and everything was already coded when apple got their hands on it.

Yes Apple have innovated, but they copy just as much as everyone else.

The look and feel of this is NOT the iPhone!

Android is a Good Thing! It is a free open platform, something that the iPhone is not.

kresh
Nov 12, 2007, 06:00 PM
If Google starts to be a competitor (real or percieved) to Apple then surely Google's CEO must step down from the Apple Board of Directors. There is clearly a conflict of interest, the same as would be if Steve Balmer was on Apple's BOD.

yg17
Nov 12, 2007, 06:09 PM
t's no iPhone OS but it's not intended to be


No, it's not. I can run 3rd party apps, use any carrier I like, and send MMS on my Windows Mobile phone :rolleyes:


The new Google OS looks great. I don't think they're copying anything (and I'm sure if I got bored enough, I could find several things on the iJoke that Apple copied) and can't wait for a phone running Android to come out. I might just have to buy one.

NicP
Nov 12, 2007, 06:43 PM
My god you guys are embarrassing.

Half of you seem to act as if Steve Jobs invented the mobile phone. He didn't! Apple took existing features and made them pretty and usable. That's it.

They didn't invent Coverflow, they bought it, and really it's just a pretty version of Alt-Tab.

They didn't invent the dock, that particular UI style has been available with unix fvwm for the last 20 years probably longer.

WebKit is an open source fork of KHTML. The rendering engine and everything was already coded when apple got their hands on it.

Yes Apple have innovated, but they copy just as much as everyone else.

The look and feel of this is NOT the iPhone!

Android is a Good Thing! It is a free open platform, something that the iPhone is not.

I agree completely, the competition can only mean that both platforms will improve over time.

synth3tik
Nov 12, 2007, 06:46 PM
I don't know if I am all that into it, but it looks like a rather nice interface.

zwida
Nov 12, 2007, 06:51 PM
If Google starts to be a competitor (real or percieved) to Apple then surely Google's CEO must step down from the Apple Board of Directors. There is clearly a conflict of interest, the same as would be if Steve Balmer was on Apple's BOD.

I think their goals are relatively aligned. They can compete while moving together to wipe out their other competition. Pretty smart thinking, I'd say.

MacEyeDoc
Nov 12, 2007, 07:04 PM
FYI... Nokia says Google alliance participation "not ruled out at all"

http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/06/nokia-says-google-alliance-participation-not-ruled-out-at-all/

Verizon and AT&T are only the 10th and 11th biggest mobile phone operators in the world and are pretty much confined to just the U.S.

OK, good use of selective quotation. From the same article on engadget: "Tuutti (spokesperson for Nokia) then went on to say that "We should never close any doors." Of course, that's still a long way from actually jumping on board, which seems to remain a fairly unlikely proposition, "open doors" aside."

And from an article linked to your article, also on engadget: "The Symbian folks stated the obvious: "If Google was not involved the industry would have just yawned and rolled over."

Your serve.

Stella
Nov 12, 2007, 07:10 PM
I think their goals are relatively aligned. They can compete while moving together to wipe out their other competition. Pretty smart thinking, I'd say.

Apple couldn't alone, at least not until the following occur:
- iPhone becomes a lot cheaper
- more flexible and cheaper contracts - a lot of people could not justify spending so much
- iphone is no longer exclusive to carriers

Google alone could swipe up significant market share.

Motley
Nov 12, 2007, 07:26 PM
Wonder how this will affect the OpenMoko People? (http://www.openmoko.com/)

Can't help but think it might leech some talent.

Either way, I say the more the merrier. I'd like something with iPhone-like features, but am on a pay as you go T-Mobile plan and don't feel like putting up with the risk of unlocking the iPhone (I'd be happy with just surfing at hotspots).

gmanrique
Nov 12, 2007, 07:31 PM
since the iPhone introduction, Apple mentioned web development and also said they were 'working' on providing a secure and better way to develop applications for the iPhone. They did not say it was or it will be an open type of device, which is a no surprise. I mean, is the Mac open (in a linux type of way)? No. Are there development tools provided to create third party apps for the mac? Yes. And that is what seemed to me that Apple was trying to accomplish, or at least that is what I understood from Jobs comments. Granted, english is my second language and the crowd was a little noisy in San Fran when he announced it, so it could had been me.

I don't necessarily think that Apple changed their plans because of the hacker community, but I do think Apple may change their plans due to Android.

Regardless, Apple official stance in January was that web-apps were the only way to go. There were some offhand comments by Jobs in interviews that there may be "limited" apps coming, but this was certainly not public company policy.

Right now the iPod has "limited" 3rd party apps available to it, but it would be a stretch to say that the iPod is open to 3rd party development.

arn

mixel
Nov 12, 2007, 07:40 PM
that web page history viewer seems like a little Cover Flow clone

If you open multiple windows on the PS3, you browser between them in the same way.. Its a pretty standard UI element, nothing apple-inspired about it.

MacinDoc
Nov 12, 2007, 07:43 PM
It's a nice concept, but will take a while to reach fruition. When it does, it will push Apple to continue to innovate, just as iPod competitors have.

Interesting point about the BOD, Kresh, this may have some implications for it...

...or there may be some unannounced partnership with Apple. Could we be looking at the basis for iPhone 3? Or will Apple continue to seek total control of the device and user experience?

rhpenguin
Nov 12, 2007, 07:43 PM
My god you guys are embarrassing.

Half of you seem to act as if Steve Jobs invented the mobile phone. He didn't! Apple took existing features and made them pretty and usable. That's it.

They didn't invent Coverflow, they bought it, and really it's just a pretty version of Alt-Tab.

They didn't invent the dock, that particular UI style has been available with unix fvwm for the last 20 years probably longer.

WebKit is an open source fork of KHTML. The rendering engine and everything was already coded when apple got their hands on it.

Yes Apple have innovated, but they copy just as much as everyone else.

The look and feel of this is NOT the iPhone!

Android is a Good Thing! It is a free open platform, something that the iPhone is not.

Well said, I wish more people realized this.. Allow me to add.

Darwin, the underpinnings of OS X is a branch of FreeBSD.

A lot of the lowlevel apps apps are FLOSS, GNU stuff... Such as... Well, most everything you do in terminal.

The iPod is just an MP3 player with a fancy interface. IIRC, Diamond had one out long before Apple.

The iRiver Clix did touch sensitive mp3 playing long before the iPod Touch.

.... Feel free to chime in. Its all advertising, and a lot of you buy it. Im not saying Apple's products aren't good, I love OS X. I just don't think they manufacture the end all and be all of products. Im game to see someone do better at whatever because I like innovation. Im not saying that Apple isn't innovative, God no.. Bringing an easy to use OS based on Unix to the table with commercial support is awesome. But, In this market if Google can make a wicked mobile OS, great.. Im down to develop my own stuff for it and since its Java, I don't have to learn much.

Edit: Im also happy I can use this on an HTC phone (Eventually). They're nice.

leigh.roy
Nov 12, 2007, 08:04 PM
This is a really good video talking about some of the technical stuff Android is capable of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPukbH6D-lY&feature=PlayList&p=D7C64411AF40DEA5&index=2

There are 3 in the series, and this is the third. I post this one first because it is probably the least technical and provide some really interesting information about what the platform is capable of.

tonkaxxtuph
Nov 12, 2007, 08:09 PM
My first impression is...so what new? My other thought is, you are still going to need excellent hardware. Most phones today are awful! Maybe once the hardware catches up to the software can we take full advantage of android. But then again, its just another Window Mobile.

scottrichardson
Nov 12, 2007, 08:14 PM
Purely speculative, but, would it be possible that this platform borrows from from Apple's own mobile OS X platform? I mean, aside from Open GL acceleration, Android seems pretty much the same as iPhone.

Considering the great relationship between Apple and Google, would it be wrong to imagine that there is some sharing of technology going on?

The similarities are just too close. Look at the browser, it looks like the dock when attached to the left or right of the screen in Leopard. Maps, IM styled text messaging.... I mean, sure Apple has no strong hold on those ideas, but for there to be such hooplah about this Android OS seems a little anti climactic. iPhone already does all this? The only difference is that they're licensing to other hardware makers.

Although it does seem like this platform has really been developed with developers in mind, with a full SDK available now.

And in saying that.. are we about to see another Microsoft vs Apple battle in the form of Google vs Apple... where Apple kept their platform closed and on one brand of hardware, while Microsoft (in this case Google) builds the software platform and licenses it to everyone else.

Had it not been for the success of Apple's iPhone platform, I doubt Google would have been pushing theirs so hard. I bet they are hoping for history repeating itself, as many hardware manufacturers flock to take advantage of something as close as they can get to the superior iPhone platform.

Scottie

arn
Nov 12, 2007, 08:22 PM
since the iPhone introduction, Apple mentioned web development and also said they were 'working' on providing a secure and better way to develop applications for the iPhone.

January: Apple announces iPhone. no 3rd party apps. hints of "secure" method to develop apps for the iPhone
June: Apple announces Web 2.0 + AJAX as the "secure" method to develop apps for the iPhone

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/11/steve-jobs-live-from-wwdc-2007/
"We have been trying to come up with a solution to expand the capabilities of the iPhone so developers can write great apps for it, but keep the iPhone secure. And we've come up with a very. Sweet. Solution. Let me tell you about it. An innovative new way to create applications for mobile devices... it's all based on the fact that we have the full Safari engine in the iPhone."

"And so you can write amazing Web 2.0 and AJAX apps that look and behave exactly like apps on the iPhone, and these apps can integrate perfectly with iPhone services. They can make a call, check email, look up a location on Gmaps... don't worry about distribution, just put 'em on an internet server. They're easy to update, just update it on your server. They're secure, and they run securely sandboxed on the iPhone. And guess what, there's no SDK you need! You've got everything you need if you can write modern web apps..."

yg17
Nov 12, 2007, 09:41 PM
But then again, its just another Window Mobile.

Nothing wrong with that....Windows Mobile kicks ass.

mtthab
Nov 12, 2007, 09:44 PM
Honestly, the first thing I noticed about that video was that both of those men are pretty bad speakers. They both look and sound like nervous mice. Aside from that though, android looks like it will work nicely to at least put a fire under Apple. The interface looks pretty sketchy at this point when put next to the iphone, but it is still very early. Is that phone all touch? Where are the tactile buttons? Can we see the buttons on the side if there are any? Not a great first glimpse but I think android will work out to be something significant. They have great ideas as far as openness goes, but it will be interesting to see how long it takes for that openness to translate to some horrible virus or glitch. Its kind of like the police saying anything is legal but please dont do anything wrong. We shall see...looks interesting though.

Also, to Leigh.roy and rhpenguin,

When you say Apple "makes (blank) pretty" you don't realize that making something "pretty" is actually a ton of work for designers, people who make a living off of making things intuitive and presentable, or "pretty" as the less embarrassing among us call it. You don't realize that more then half of the worth of an OS or electronic device is it's "prettiness" or design. Sure apple didn't invent the computer (actually, I think they may have) but the reason the iRiver clix hasn't sold 100 million pieces is because it is not designed well and the iPod is. Some people, like you, are more into the technical aspect of coding and whatever else. I admittedly know almost nothing about that but I am part of the group of people who appreciate and know good design. What you write off in a word I understand as being what makes something useable. Please don't assume that design is not a huge part of electronics because it certainly is and the pile of money that Steve Jobs sleeps on every night is a testament to that.

MacFly123
Nov 12, 2007, 09:53 PM
that web page history viewer seems like a little Cover Flow clone

Almost, but it is an exact clone of "Carosel" which Apple just announced in iPhoto '08 Web Gallery :rolleyes:

http://www.apple.com/ilife/iphoto/#webgallery

MacFly123
Nov 12, 2007, 09:54 PM
Anyone else notice that a lot of the icons were complete iPhone and Mac rip offs as well??? :rolleyes:

I agree the drop down menus suck hard.

leigh.roy
Nov 12, 2007, 10:18 PM
When you say Apple "makes (blank) pretty" you don't realize that making something "pretty" is actually a ton of work for designers, people who make a living off of making things intuitive and presentable, or "pretty" as the less embarrassing among us call it. You don't realize that more then half of the worth of an OS or electronic device is it's "prettiness" or design. Sure apple didn't invent the computer (actually, I think they may have) but the reason the iRiver clix hasn't sold 100 million pieces is because it is not designed well and the iPod is. Some people, like you, are more into the technical aspect of coding and whatever else. I admittedly know almost nothing about that but I am part of the group of people who appreciate and know good design. What you write off in a word I understand as being what makes something useable. Please don't assume that design is not a huge part of electronics because it certainly is and the pile of money that Steve Jobs sleeps on every night is a testament to that.

Of course I realise, and there is nothing wrong with that. I love Eye Candy. I think it's fantastic. But people should realise that Apple don't have a monopoly on eye candy. Just because it's pretty doesn't mean they are copying Apple.

Icons moving through a 3D space should not immediately result in cries of "OMG. They haz copies :apple: designs. They are losers!!!!111"

Anyone else notice that a lot of the icons were complete iPhone and Mac rip offs as well??? :rolleyes:

Translation: OMG That icon looks like a folder!!! Apple owns a patent on that!!!!!

yg17
Nov 12, 2007, 10:37 PM
Translation: OMG That icon looks like a folder!!! Apple owns a patent on that!!!!!


THANK YOU! When will people realize that not everything is a rip off of Apple?

I can't remember if it was here or somewhere else, but I saw someone comment on how having the application icons on the bottom of the screen is stealing from Apple.....I had a BlackBerry Pearl that had app icons on the bottom of the screen like that long before Apple even announced the iPhone. But I don't see anyone accusing Apple of ripping off BlackBerry. Because Apple is perfect and would never steal from anyone, right? :rolleyes:

ilogic
Nov 12, 2007, 11:23 PM
Take that Ballmer!!! "just on paper" my a.r.s...

good stuff google... good stuff. :p

Kwill
Nov 12, 2007, 11:49 PM
I wonder if a certain Google member of Apple's board of directors will be invited off the team... "to pursue other interests." :rolleyes:

leigh.roy
Nov 12, 2007, 11:51 PM
I wonder if a certain Google member of Apple's board of directors will be invited off the team... "to pursue other interests." :rolleyes:

I don't see why. As has been argued here many times, Apple is a hardware vendor, their job is to sell hardware.

This is a software product.

MacFly123
Nov 13, 2007, 12:08 AM
THANK YOU! When will people realize that not everything is a rip off of Apple?

I can't remember if it was here or somewhere else, but I saw someone comment on how having the application icons on the bottom of the screen is stealing from Apple.....I had a BlackBerry Pearl that had app icons on the bottom of the screen like that long before Apple even announced the iPhone. But I don't see anyone accusing Apple of ripping off BlackBerry. Because Apple is perfect and would never steal from anyone, right? :rolleyes:

Listen I love Apple and I will be the first to admit they also copy and take ideas from other places... BUT if you know anything about design you know the work that goes into icons especially with Apple which is why theirs are so beautiful and those icons are definitely rip offs in design from Apple, no other way around it.

yg17
Nov 13, 2007, 12:19 AM
Listen I love Apple and I will be the first to admit they also copy and take ideas from other places... BUT if you know anything about design you know the work that goes into icons especially with Apple which is why theirs are so beautiful and those icons are definitely rip offs in design from Apple, no other way around it.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/11/android22.jpg

The only thing in there that might even remotely be a ripoff of an Apple icon is the compass one.


LG's Press release dated Jan. 18th, 2007, iPhone introduced Jan. 9th. But still a valid point.
Because 9 days was enough time for LG to completely build a phone from scratch :rolleyes:

Kwill
Nov 13, 2007, 12:46 AM
I don't see why. As has been argued here many times, Apple is a hardware vendor, their job is to sell hardware.

This is a software product.

Apple sells hardware AND software. It's an integrated experience. More to the point of Android, it is a competing mobile phone OS.

Kwill
Nov 13, 2007, 12:48 AM
Anyone else notice that a lot of the icons were complete iPhone and Mac rip offs as well??? :rolleyes:

I don't think the icons are final since this is a prototype. They represent placeholders for what the developer is responsible for designing.

Kwill
Nov 13, 2007, 12:54 AM
"Sorry I missed your little announcement but my hands were full with another project." :D

aLoC
Nov 13, 2007, 01:02 AM
To all those who are so excited to have a free and open platform to develop all your apps on, I would just ask: "What apps?"

I mean how much can you really do with a tiny screen and miniature keyboard? It's too small to watch movies, a few minutes of news broadcast or Youtube maybe.

No video or photo editing is realistically possible. You can't do massive hundred page documents on it, only short notes or emails. You can check your appointments or view a small map.

In other words it's an appliance. A grand platform is nothing to write home about in this case because there's only 10 or so practical apps for such a device anyway (excluding many varieties of game).

MacFly123
Nov 13, 2007, 01:39 AM
The only thing in there that might even remotely be a ripoff of an Apple icon is the compass one.

Ok sorry for the confusion. I meant these. Now I know some symbols are just unavoidable, but come on??? The volume and the mute at least are total Apple rip off. Once again, I'm not saying Apple hasn't ever copied, but come on, seriously lol...... :rolleyes:

P.S. these are not just place holders for other apps because this IS the phone app that Google wrote and includes (I know everything is customizable, but still). And I know my image lines suck lol :)

MacFly123
Nov 13, 2007, 01:44 AM
To all those who are so excited to have a free and open platform to develop all your apps on, I would just ask: "What apps?"

I mean how much can you really do with a tiny screen and miniature keyboard? It's too small to watch movies, a few minutes of news broadcast or Youtube maybe.

No video or photo editing is realistically possible. You can't do massive hundred page documents on it, only short notes or emails. You can check your appointments or view a small map.

In other words it's an appliance. A grand platform is nothing to write home about in this case because there's only 10 or so practical apps for such a device anyway (excluding many varieties of game).

You need to think of future devices like the iPhone or little mobile tablets that will be in the hand of EVERYONE in the future, not stupid little small screened keyboard phones that are out now :rolleyes:

aLoC
Nov 13, 2007, 01:52 AM
You need to think of future devices like the iPhone or little mobile tablets that will be in the hand of EVERYONE in the future, not stupid little small screened keyboard phones that are out now :rolleyes:

In other words you have to imagine why it's good because there's no real reason :rolleyes:

trakais
Nov 13, 2007, 01:53 AM
I agree completely, the competition can only mean that both platforms will improve over time.

I, however, don't agree at all. You speak like lawyers. Just because something existed before, doesn't mean that the first impression people get will be of the original. It's of the thing that made it popular.

Even if something similar to the dock existed for linux - first thing you think of is apple osx. Same goes for zoom-and-pan style browser, and coverflow.

Maybe I invented multitouch 20 years ago in my sleep, this doesn't mean everyone will say apple copied it from me. It's what makes it popular - that matters. Associations are based on that. I'm not speaking about copyrights though.

leigh.roy
Nov 13, 2007, 02:30 AM
P.S. these are not just place holders for other apps because this IS the phone app that Google wrote and includes (I know everything is customizable, but still). And I know my image lines suck lol :)

Holy **** you are right! Check it out, google used a + symbol to mean "add" and so did the iPhone. And you know what else? Those damn ancient greeks totally ripped off Apple to mean the same thing!!!

And then there is the speaker symbol to indicate volume!! It looks strangely like one of those old gramaphone. We should totally find out who invented that so we can sue!

And then the green phone symbol... You know what, I think my sarcasm well has just dried up.

leigh.roy
Nov 13, 2007, 02:33 AM
I, however, don't agree at all. You speak like lawyers. Just because something existed before, doesn't mean that the first impression people get will be of the original. It's of the thing that made it popular.

Even if something similar to the dock existed for linux - first thing you think of is apple osx. Same goes for zoom-and-pan style browser, and coverflow.

Maybe I invented multitouch 20 years ago in my sleep, this doesn't mean everyone will say apple copied it from me. It's what makes it popular - that matters. Associations are based on that. I'm not speaking about copyrights though.

And when I think of an application window most people will think of MS Windows instead of the people who invented it, Apple. Oh wait! They didn't invent that either, they stole it from Xerox along with the mouse.

Hey! I guess my sarcasm well wasn't dry after all :D

leigh.roy
Nov 13, 2007, 02:39 AM
Oh, one more thing. (HA! I totally stole that from Jobs)

Apple didnt invent multi-touch either. That was pioneered back in 1982 at the Uni of Toronto.

MacFly123
Nov 13, 2007, 03:03 AM
In other words you have to imagine why it's good because there's no real reason :rolleyes:

You simply have a severe lack of vision and the near future! Just wait 1-3 years!

Holy **** you are right! Check it out, google used a + symbol to mean "add" and so did the iPhone. And you know what else? Those damn ancient greeks totally ripped off Apple to mean the same thing!!!

And then there is the speaker symbol to indicate volume!! It looks strangely like one of those old gramaphone. We should totally find out who invented that so we can sue!

And then the green phone symbol... You know what, I think my sarcasm well has just dried up.

You conveniently didn't quote where I said obviously some symbols are unavoidable but its funny how every other device in the world has found a way to make a volume symbol that doesn't look EXACTLY like Apple's. All I'm saying is you can see that they were influenced by iPhone design, God, can't you at least admit that??? :rolleyes:

edesignuk
Nov 13, 2007, 03:11 AM
Absolutely cannot wait for this to be in the mainstream.

Just the building blocks and supported technologies look good, and the fact they are giving good financial incentives for all the developers out there.

If they can pull this off, and I think they can, Apple and their closed minded nature will have something very real to worry about while they go around breaking unlocks with every small firmware update.

sunfast
Nov 13, 2007, 03:44 AM
I'm certainly excited about this and I genuinely hope it's a success.

Reason? Well, I want an iPhone at some point and much prefer the hardware (and what I've seen of the software) but some decent competition would be excellent. I really hope this means that the iPhone will become more open to 3rd party developers.

Ok, I admit. I just want to play Quake on my phone.

leigh.roy
Nov 13, 2007, 03:47 AM
You conveniently didn't quote where I said obviously some symbols are unavoidable but its funny how every other device in the world has found a way to make a volume symbol that doesn't look EXACTLY like Apple's. All I'm saying is you can see that they were influenced by iPhone design, God, can't you at least admit that??? :rolleyes:

No sorry can't do that.

http://www.brighthand.com/images/Tapwave_Zodiac_R_Mute.jpg
http://media.arstechnica.com/images/misc/vista/beta2/volume.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7743/70303220ef1.png
http://www.owlriver.com/issa/icon-speaker.gif
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/3205927/2/istockphoto_3205927_phone_menu_icons.jpg
http://www.ecu.edu/cs-itcs/vc/images/mute.JPG
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/3508341/2/istockphoto_3508341_microphone_icon_in_6_colors.jpg
http://www.iconarchive.com/icons/icons-land/vista-multimedia/Microphone-Pressed-256x256.png

I am all for giving Apple credit where credit is due. My Mac is great. OSX is fantastic. I pre-ordered Leopard and so far it's been pretty good. My iPod is great. Developing in Cocoa is sweet.

This however is trying to give Apple credit where none is due. Apple have nothing to do with Android. Android is 100% Google (or more accurately OHA). UI inspiration comes from many many places. All of these recognisable icons have been around for decades. Who knows where they came from, Apple certainly didn't invent them. Apple didn't invent a lot of things, most of the time they just refine it.

This is a far more exciting development than the travesty called the iPhone.

So how about we get up off our knees and stop pretending that they are the only ones who revolutionise the IT world. We really don't want to see Apple get a monopoly on IT.

edesignuk
Nov 13, 2007, 04:00 AM
*Screen updates in the browser were painfully slow during finger dragging. Dragging that zoomed-in web page around showed a lot of choppy delay. Many navigation and interface elements looked "un-fluid," and I think a lot of it is because Google can't (or doesn't want to) copy some things that Apple did.They were loading the maps data over a 3G connection, not WiFi. Try loading maps on an iPhone over EDGE, I'd imagine (and only imagine, since I've never used one) you'd get the same thing, if not a lot worse.
I would be ashamed to show a product that is such a rip-off. From the look-a-like dock to the poorly implemented cover-flow to the square icons, there is a huge lack of creativity. Of course I would not say design is not one of Googles strong suits.EVERYTHING about the "gPhone" can be changed, that's the whole point of this. Nothing needs to stay as they've presented it in the initial demo. It was just that, a very plain and simple 1st stage initial demo. It's up to the dev communities to decide what it looks like, and what it's capable of.

:rolleyes:

mdriftmeyer
Nov 13, 2007, 04:19 AM
My god you guys are embarrassing.

Half of you seem to act as if Steve Jobs invented the mobile phone. He didn't! Apple took existing features and made them pretty and usable. That's it.

They didn't invent Coverflow, they bought it, and really it's just a pretty version of Alt-Tab.

They didn't invent the dock, that particular UI style has been available with unix fvwm for the last 20 years probably longer.

WebKit is an open source fork of KHTML. The rendering engine and everything was already coded when apple got their hands on it.

Yes Apple have innovated, but they copy just as much as everyone else.

The look and feel of this is NOT the iPhone!

Android is a Good Thing! It is a free open platform, something that the iPhone is not.

Yes and No. KHTML/KJS in it's KDE 3.2.x phase was already available.

WebCore, WebKit, WebKitLibraries, JavaScriptCore, JavaScriptGlue, SunSpider, WebKitTools [BuildSlaveSupport, CLWrapper, CodeCoverage, CygwinDownloader, DrawTest, Drosera, DumpRenderTree, FindSafari, GtkLauncher, iExploder, mangleme, MIDLWrapper, WebKitInitializer, WebKitLauncher, vcbin], LayoutTests [css1,css2.1,css3,and a bunch more] is a collaborative effort.

The KDE Khtml/KJS Team have yet to move from their rendering engine to WebKit, but it will be addressed after KDE 4.1 is released.

Padraig
Nov 13, 2007, 05:46 AM
OK, good use of selective quotation. From the same article on engadget: "Tuutti (spokesperson for Nokia) then went on to say that "We should never close any doors." Of course, that's still a long way from actually jumping on board, which seems to remain a fairly unlikely proposition, "open doors" aside."

And from an article linked to your article, also on engadget: "The Symbian folks stated the obvious: "If Google was not involved the industry would have just yawned and rolled over."

Your serve.

I simply quoted the article's headline and linked to the entire story. Perhaps the issue should be your selective emphasis, I noticed you underlined the engadget writers opinion, rather than what nokia's spokesperson said.

I have no idea what your point is with the second paragraph.

Protoplasm
Nov 13, 2007, 05:49 AM
I think it's a good thing that Google has developed Android as I think competition can only be good for the end user.

However, I am not at all excited by the announcement. How good it will be in practice will entirely depend on how it ties in with the hardware and the applications it runs, of which we currently know next to nothing.

People love the iPhone because it offers such a wonderful user experience. Reading its technical specifications wouldn't give you much reason to want one but the devil is in the details and that's where Apple excel.

Right now, it is my opinion that Android is to the iPhone as Linux is to OSX [or a Mac, even]. That is not a bad thing in itself. Not a bad thing at all. However, it leaves me feeling sceptical of anyone creating a phone running Android that is a joy to use, and I think that was the untapped market the iPhone snagged. I think it's also an incredible plus for Apple that, just as with their computers, they are designing an operating system for specific hardware in a symbiotic manner.

Symbian, Windows Mobile and other solutions already offer a fully acceptable user experience, but people want more than acceptable and that's what Android [and the hardware running it] needs to offer in order to excite me and to be seen as any real threat to the iPhone.

Let's hope Google's $10m bounty brings that.

Stella
Nov 13, 2007, 06:13 AM
Any hardware you see are mock ups or prototypes and may not necessarily represent the final hardware designs.

No applications yet? Of course not - its just been unveiled. This is the reason why its been unveiled and an SDK released so developers can begin work. Hardware can be worked on too.

It will be many months until you see final hardware and by that time there will be applications.

Some people have a lack of understanding of how these things work.

p.s., I doubt you'd be writing large documents or video / photo ( apart from basic ) on your iPhone either. People would be using a PC to do those tasks.


I mean how much can you really do with a tiny screen and miniature keyboard? It's too small to watch movies, a few minutes of news broadcast or Youtube maybe.

No video or photo editing is realistically possible. You can't do massive hundred page documents on it, only short notes or emails. You can check your appointments or view a small map.

In other words it's an appliance. A grand platform is nothing to write home about in this case because there's only 10 or so practical apps for such a device anyway (excluding many varieties of game).

rhpenguin
Nov 13, 2007, 06:21 AM
Also, to Leigh.roy and rhpenguin,

When you say Apple "makes (blank) pretty" you don't realize that making something "pretty" is actually a ton of work for designers, people who make a living off of making things intuitive and presentable, or "pretty" as the less embarrassing among us call it.

Oh i know making stuff pretty is a lot of work. Having just finished doing my own UI for MythTV, I know its a lot of work to make stuff functional and good looking. But the the thing is, if you want to do it, ANYONE can make a pretty UI that is functional. This is not just limited to Apple.

Google seems to be on the right track here. Its making users scared.

goosnarrggh
Nov 13, 2007, 07:08 AM
Windows Mobile, Prada, HTC Touch - join the iPhone copy crowd....

???...
How can you possibly say that with a straight face?

The most recent release of Windows Mobile was announced before the first official acknowledgement of the iPhone. And it clearly bears the marks of its heritage as an evolutionary step from previous releases that date back to years before the iPhone's existence. By definition it cannot possibly constitute a "copy".

kirk26
Nov 13, 2007, 07:22 AM
Awesome. In a year's time, if the iPhone isn't sufficiently open and ahead of the curve, there's another place I can go.

That very fact will likely be just what is needed to keep the iPhone open and ahead of the curve.

The iPhone has a very long way before it can pass the Curve.

Stella
Nov 13, 2007, 07:31 AM
Its also quite a claim that LG's PRADA is also an iPhone copy when it was announced around the same time - less than two weeks later. The iPhone and Prada were developed simultaneously, presumely without knowledge of each other.

???...
How can you possibly say that with a straight face?

The most recent release of Windows Mobile was announced before the first official acknowledgement of the iPhone. And it clearly bears the marks of its heritage as an evolutionary step from previous releases that date back to years before the iPhone's existence. By definition it cannot possibly constitute a "copy".

jokarak
Nov 13, 2007, 09:31 AM
Its also quite a claim that LG's PRADA is also an iPhone copy when it was announced around the same time - less than two weeks later. The iPhone and Prada were developed simultaneously, presumely without knowledge of each other.

Hm...actually, the LG phone was announced back in 2006, waaaay before the iPhone. It even won a design awards (Red Dot and IFD - these two being basically the gold standard of design awards...some Apple products also won these awards, I believe) prior to the release of the iPhone. LG was making a stink about how the iPhone ripped off the look of their device, but didn't sue.

As for the whole "cover flow" web history, it existed in Nokia phones as far back as 2006 (my Nokia E61 which I bought then has it). So again, we all know that Apple makes great products, innovative design, etc, but they did not everything under the sun, and just because Apple uses something, it does not mean that they created it.

As a final point, Santos Dumont flew first, not the Wright Brothers. OK, I kid, this is a whole different can of worms :D

ChrisK018
Nov 13, 2007, 09:58 AM
If the Googly-Phone is on Verizon I will be very happy. I can't wait five years for the iPhone. I am not a fan of my Treo's Windows OS. I suppose it's apples and oranges (no pun intended) but I really like Google's gmail; I hope they can get a similar level of functionality with their phone platform.

All of the who copied who stuff is silly.

michaelvoigt
Nov 13, 2007, 10:36 AM
The main question is battery life on these 'prototype' google phones? The iPhone did not go 3G because the battery life would be half of what it is. When I see a 3G smartphone with a decent battery life then there will be something for the iPhone to worry about....

They are desperate to get this out, this was half-baked and not ready... but they need traction now, I mean yesterday. The iPhone has gained a large foothold and is not going anywhere. This was such a shameless copy of the iPhone I found it hard to watch, iPhone clone #1 is in production. The CEO of google was having trouble looking sincere, I found him not convincing and dodgy.

I think it is too little, too late ... Apple showed a video that was 90% the same as this when they debuted the iPhone, and the phone was ready to be purchased shortly afterwards. There is not even a date when a google phone would be available? … maybe a year from now?

The game part was cool, that type of stuff is coming to the iPhone soon, the iPhone shipped with openGL too :D

yg17
Nov 13, 2007, 10:43 AM
Ok sorry for the confusion. I meant these. Now I know some symbols are just unavoidable, but come on??? The volume and the mute at least are total Apple rip off. Once again, I'm not saying Apple hasn't ever copied, but come on, seriously lol...... :rolleyes:

P.S. these are not just place holders for other apps because this IS the phone app that Google wrote and includes (I know everything is customizable, but still). And I know my image lines suck lol :)

Um....NO. Those aren't Apple icons. They're internationally recognized, standard symbols for functions that anyone, regardless of the language they speak, will know what they mean. And they've been around for much longer than the iPhone.

You're really trying to say that Apple created the Add (+) symbol? I'm pretty sure I remember using it in 1st grade back in the early 90s. And I'm sure my parents, and my grandparents, and their parents used it long before I did.

(watches "android" videos - snoozes)

Sorry, guys, just like the Wright Brothers and Thomas Edison - if you're not the first, you're just one of many....

Windows Mobile, Prada, HTC Touch - join the iPhone copy crowd....
Windows Mobile has been around for years. How did they copy something that didn't exist?
The LG Prada was shown about a week after the iPhone was announced. Do you really think they were able to copy the iPhone and build a new phone from scratch in a week? I don't.
The HTC Touch was based off the HTC Elf prototype which was shown about 2 months before the iPhone was announced. How did they copy something that didn't exist?

840quadra
Nov 13, 2007, 10:54 AM
I love Apple, but I am really excited about this new ecosystem that Android will make available.

I may stop my habit of buying burners (cheap phones) and actually get my first "smart phone". I love my iPod Touch, and could see myself getting an iPhone if they were not locked to their provider. I just don't have any interest in having to VOID a warranty on a device I love in order to keep it away from AT&T.

If all providers end up with a phone that supports Android, it is great thing for all of us!

Stella
Nov 13, 2007, 11:22 AM
What does it matter about the battery life on a prototype phone? A device that customers will never use ( and in many cases, never see ). Judge the battery life upon the final product(s).

They estimate second half of next year. Phones and software take time to develop. Android will go further improvements.
http://www.gearlog.com/2007/11/say_goodbye_to_the_google_phon.php

Just for interest: OpenGL or indeed hardware accelerated GPUs in phones is nothing new. iPhone was not the first. Other phones have had hardware accelerated GPU for over 12 months, and openGL for much longer.

Never is too late to enter a market, if the product is good enough.

The main question is battery life on these 'prototype' google phones? The iPhone did not go 3G because the battery life would be half of what it is. When I see a 3G smartphone with a decent battery life then there will be something for the iPhone to worry about....

I think it is too little, too late ... Apple showed a video that was 90% the same as this when they debuted the iPhone, and the phone was ready to be purchased shortly afterwards. There is not even a date when a google phone would be available? … maybe a year from now?

The game part was cool, that type of stuff is coming to the iPhone soon, the iPhone shipped with openGL too :D

MacFly123
Nov 13, 2007, 11:53 AM
This is a far more exciting development than the travesty called the iPhone.

So how about we get up off our knees and stop pretending that they are the only ones who revolutionise the IT world. We really don't want to see Apple get a monopoly on IT.

So I'm sure you called the iPod a travesty too lol. :rolleyes: And I do not worship Apple. I love Apple, but there are lots of things I would change if I were the C.E.O.

michaelvoigt
Nov 13, 2007, 11:57 AM
My point exactly, people with techincal knowledge understand the power consumption of 3G and the lack of a magical battery that is going to give iPhone like battery life in the same form-factor. Google has focused on what is considered the major flaw of the iPhone, the lack of 3G. Yet, google is not focusing on how to make a 3G phone with a decent battery life, it will be very interesting to see the solution. Plus with the amount of time we get to wait to see it, we should see it implemented in the iPhone 3G first....

come on man, this phone is so iPHone like ... don'tcha think?

What does it matter about the battery life on a prototype phone? A device that customers will never use ( and in many cases, never see ). Judge the battery life upon the final product(s).

They estimate second half of next year. Phones and software take time to develop. Android will go further improvements.
http://www.gearlog.com/2007/11/say_goodbye_to_the_google_phon.php

Just for interest: OpenGL or indeed hardware accelerated GPUs in phones is nothing new. iPhone was not the first. Other phones have had hardware accelerated GPU for over 12 months, and openGL for much longer.

Never is too late to enter a market, if the product is good enough.

mtthab
Nov 13, 2007, 11:58 AM
This is a far more exciting development than the travesty called the iPhone.

So how about we get up off our knees and stop pretending that they are the only ones who revolutionise the IT world. We really don't want to see Apple get a monopoly on IT.


This is far more exciting then the "travesty" called the iPhone? First of all travesty does not even work correctly in that sentence, a travesty is a false or distorted representation of something. More importantly, while your point is arguable I guess, the iPhone works now. I can go buy an iPhone and play movies and use google maps and go on the most realistic mobile version of the internet now. Android is software that is in the shaky hand of a man with poor speaking skills. Android reacts poorly to the touch and works on a screen so small (on that particular phone used in the video) that half of the apps used on the iPhone, whether 3rd part or not, would not even be useful. If the iPhone were open to third part development, which it soon will be, it probably wouldn't be such a "travesty." You can not seriously say that Android, a shadow of a system that you for some reason can't admit looks and works almost exactly like the iPhone software, regardless of who invented what, is exciting while the iPhone that is out now and works and is about to be opened up to 3rd party development is a "travesty"...and not just becuase that would not be proper english.

And the truth of the matter is that this is an Apple website and Apple does do a great deal of todays revolutionizing, I wish you and the others would stop acting so hard to impress, it comes off very poorly. If you are all such genius programmers and idea men then go make something.

Stella
Nov 13, 2007, 12:02 PM
?!!!

The hardware isn't complete!! What you saw was a *demo* - its *not* the final product. Google are doing the software, not the hardware. I don't understand why its so difficult to comprehend this simple fact!

I bet in its infancy, the iPhone was just as bad!


Android reacts poorly to the touch and works on a screen so small (on that particular phone used in the video) that half of the apps used on the iPhone, whether 3rd part or not, would not even be useful. If the iPhone were open to third part development, which it soon will be, it probably wouldn't be such a "travesty."

yg17
Nov 13, 2007, 12:03 PM
The hardware isn't complete!! What you saw was a *demo* - its *not* the final product. Google are doing the software, not the hardware. I don't understand why its so difficult to comprehend this simple fact!
Rational thought in a thread about an iJoke competitor? That's unpossible! :D

Stella
Nov 13, 2007, 12:29 PM
Rational thought in a thread about an iJoke competitor? That's unpossible! :D

You mean impossible? ;)

FX120
Nov 13, 2007, 01:02 PM
Apple showed prototypes of the Mac to Microsoft and they stole it. Now Google is doing the same with the iPhone. Back stabbers.

What a tool you are..

michaelvoigt
Nov 13, 2007, 01:14 PM
My point exactly ..... we didn't see the iPhone in its infancy!! I consider this a classy move, and very well calculated. We were introduced to the iPhone, not prototype noise and hacked demo software and promise that falls halfway on to the shoulders of the open source community and third party hardware developers.

I find this google release of a product in its infancy a sign of desperation and hype. They picked the largest 'flaws' of the iPhone and completely focus on that. I love the other posts that have commented on just how unpolished this video is and how bad the acting is, is suppose to excite us? Google has 15,200 employees, can a brother get a decent video produced?

Google will have a handful of iPhone clones produced in a year; the question is whether Apple can stay ahead of the curve... just like they always have to.


?!!!

The hardware isn't complete!! What you saw was a *demo* - its *not* the final product. Google are doing the software, not the hardware. I don't understand why its so difficult to comprehend this simple fact!

I bet in its infancy, the iPhone was just as bad!

happydude
Nov 13, 2007, 01:30 PM
as someone eagerly looking to get into the iphone/smartphone market i'm excited by google's entry into the industry - be it software/hardware/both. it can only mean apple will have to open up to 3rd party more as well as push itself on improvements. nothing wrong with a little healthy competition! and by then apple will still have a significant hold on the market with 10 million plus ipods out there already and by then they'll be in 3G, bigger HD's, etc. the future looks bright!!!

Stella
Nov 13, 2007, 01:40 PM
The iPhone that was demoed at SF last year was not the final product, it was still work in progress, and as we know was not feature complete. It wasn't a phone ready for consumers.

Google want to attract third party developers so will release the SDK well in advance. Google need to do this well ahead of time. This wasn't desperation - why would it? Google have already got a load of carriers and manufacturers on board who can now start developing phones.

Google has to announce early, Apple didn't because it didn't need the 3rd party software or the 3rd party phones that would run mobile osx.

There is nothing unusual about Google revealing its phone OS at this time.

It amuses me when people slam companies for copying Apple but ignore when Apple copies others.

My point exactly ..... we didn't see the iPhone in its infancy!! I consider this a classy move, and very well calculated. We were introduced to the iPhone, not prototype noise and hacked demo software and promise that falls halfway on to the shoulders of the open source community and third party hardware developers.

I find this google release of a product in its infancy a sign of desperation and hype. They picked the largest 'flaws' of the iPhone and completely focus on that. I love the other posts that have commented on just how unpolished this video is and how bad the acting is, is suppose to excite us? Google has 15,200 employees, can a brother get a decent video produced?

Google will have a handful of iPhone clones produced in a year; the question is whether Apple can stay ahead of the curve... just like they always have to.

michaelvoigt
Nov 13, 2007, 03:08 PM
hmmm......

I think creating a iPhone clone is lame and that is what I see. I really don't see anything but how much of a shamelss copy-cat it is. Maybe I focus to much on that , but I'm a Apple fan.

Soon the iPhone will be open with a SDK too, so let the battle begin!

Go for it google.... palm, windows CE, Windows mobile,linux and now google.


The iPhone that was demoed at SF last year was not the final product, it was still work in progress, and as we know was not feature complete. It wasn't a phone ready for consumers.

Google want to attract third party developers so will release the SDK well in advance. Google need to do this well ahead of time. This wasn't desperation - why would it? Google have already got a load of carriers and manufacturers on board who can now start developing phones.

Google has to announce early, Apple didn't because it didn't need the 3rd party software or the 3rd party phones that would run mobile osx.

There is nothing unusual about Google revealing its phone OS at this time.

It amuses me when people slam companies for copying Apple but ignore when Apple copies others.

leigh.roy
Nov 13, 2007, 03:44 PM
This is far more exciting then the "travesty" called the iPhone? First of all travesty does not even work correctly in that sentence, a travesty is a false or distorted representation of something. More importantly, while your point is arguable I guess, the iPhone works now. I can go buy an iPhone and play movies and use google maps and go on the most realistic mobile version of the internet now. Android is software that is in the shaky hand of a man with poor speaking skills. Android reacts poorly to the touch and works on a screen so small (on that particular phone used in the video) that half of the apps used on the iPhone, whether 3rd part or not, would not even be useful. If the iPhone were open to third part development, which it soon will be, it probably wouldn't be such a "travesty." You can not seriously say that Android, a shadow of a system that you for some reason can't admit looks and works almost exactly like the iPhone software, regardless of who invented what, is exciting while the iPhone that is out now and works and is about to be opened up to 3rd party development is a "travesty"...and not just becuase that would not be proper english.

And the truth of the matter is that this is an Apple website and Apple does do a great deal of todays revolutionizing, I wish you and the others would stop acting so hard to impress, it comes off very poorly. If you are all such genius programmers and idea men then go make something.

Congratulations, you can read a dictionary! Travesty, verb: any grotesque or debased likeness or imitation: a travesty of justice.

So now that we have the dictionary definitions out of the way you go on to say
If the iPhone were open to third part development, which it soon will be, it probably wouldn't be such a "travesty."
How can you Possibly... wait hang on, I'm confused. Did you just switch sides? OK, I'll take it, but if you want to add some arguments to you post just remember to add how ludicrously expensive it it, the missing basic functionality like copy/paste, mms etc. Charging for ringtones proving that Apple really are just shills for the music industry. Don't get me wrong or anything, iPhone is very pretty, and probably so easy my grandmother could use one (and she is dead) but it's not a smartphone.

So next argument! :) The non-existent iPhone interface rip-off

What basis do you say this looks and works like the iPhone? I have actually downloaded the SDK and started playing with it. Have you? OK I'll play devil's advocate and try and see this from your point of view. Most of the interface is driven by the d-pad. I guess the iPhone could also use its d-pad. Oh no wait! It can't, because it doesn't have a d-pad! OK so ignore that one.

I guess there is the way Android puts its application functions into a contextual menu, iPhone could do that. No wait, iPhone doesn't have any contextual menus.

There is that side scrolling dock thingy on the Android. Nope, no side scrolling crap on iPhone either.

So that leaves, the icons I guess. They do look a bit glassy and shiny I suppose. But we all know Apple stole that from the crystal KDE theme.

mtthab
Nov 13, 2007, 04:28 PM
I used travesty in quotes because I was using it in your improper context...it was a joke...hence the quotes.

The iPhone is not that expensive in comparison to other high end cell phones. Look at the top phone in the Nokia lineup, that is ludicrous, one hundred dollars more then an iPod for a device that also acts as a phone is not that bad. The iPhone is not an inexpensive phone but its price is not ludicrous in my opinion. You can't copy and paste on the iPhone, you're right. If you really think though, its a cell phone. What on earth could you be writing that is so long that you would copy and paste rather then just type it again? There is no practical reason to type anything longer then a text message or a short note. Apple charges for ringtones...so does everyone else and I'm sure the music companies have something to do with that.

The android phone that works with tactile buttons does not work like the iPhone, you are correct in saying that. That phone is, in my eyes at least, archaic to use when things like the prada and the iPhone exist. Tiny tactile buttons that do not change to suit different applications and a small screen are problems that other companies, Apple, LG, whoever, have found ways around. Why android would use a phone that has these problems in their demo...I can't say. The phone that is shown to work with the touch interface works like the iPhone. I am not going to argue that point because it is absurd to say that it does not. I have not downloaded the SDK because truthfully I would have no idea what to do with it. I am not a programmer, I pay attention and respect to design because that is what I know. This design is similar to that of the iPhone. I don't care if the designs that android shares with the iPhone were invented by Apple, Microsoft, they can be invented by cavemen for all I care, I am just saying that they are similar, too similar for me to be impressed with android as a new product.

Heres another dictionary passage that you may want to take reference of

pretentious |priˈten ch əs|
adjective
attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed : a pretentious literary device.

leigh.roy
Nov 13, 2007, 04:35 PM
Actually the full screen touch version works exactly the same way as the small screen. Scrolling dock, you can touch the menu items instead of using the d-pad, contextual menues. If anything its more of a WM6 rip off.

No other mobile phone forces you to pay for music you already own so that you can use it as a ring tone.

michaelvoigt
Nov 13, 2007, 04:41 PM
The world is a better place with the iPhone, it brought the mobile internet to the masses. It was scrutinized by an electron microscope and stood up. It filled the void of innovation between the carrier and the phone; it bridged the network to the phone and back again.

You either love it or you hate it, but you know about it.

Every flaw has been broadcasted and discussed till no end, yet they sold enough to make Google care.

The Google clone phones are on the way, are people going to even care? By that time won’t that just be the norm? … ‘oh yeah, Google phone… cool, my iPhone does that’

leigh.roy
Nov 13, 2007, 04:56 PM
yet they sold enough to make Google care.

This has nothing to do with Apple. Google don't give a crap about the iPhone. They only care about making the mobile platform open. Google purchased Android over 2 years ago, long before iPhone was announced.

MacGuffin
Nov 13, 2007, 04:59 PM
Yes!

Come to me, inexpensive ad-supported iPhone replacement. Just in time for the crushing recession next year. :D

jokarak
Nov 13, 2007, 06:09 PM
Well, at least most people do seem to agree that competition is good. If nothing else, this will push Apple to really get that SDK out the door next year, and hopefully improve their mobile OS to bring it more up to par with modern smartphones when 2.0 rolls along.

PS Did I mention that Santos Dumont flew first ;)

dicklacara
Nov 13, 2007, 08:40 PM
If all providers end up with a phone that supports Android, it is great thing for all of us!

Bingo!

dicklacara
Nov 13, 2007, 08:55 PM
First. I agree/disagree with all the prior posts (especially mine).

Step back and think: What if the gPhone & SDK had been announced/released based upon OS X instead of linux... and the iPhone/iPod Touch instead of SudoPhone?

mmmmm......

John Musbach
Nov 14, 2007, 12:14 AM
With such an open architecture the flood gates are open for all kinds of unique applications. Should there be a good array of utilities for the Android platform (such as IRC and SSH clients) you can definitely count me in for devices powered by the Android platform.

reviewspin
Nov 14, 2007, 09:50 AM
Some people are saying this is just a copy cat of the iPhone, but exactly why? The iPhone does not have a dock (unless you consider the "phone" "ipod" a dock, but still...it's purpose is different then what Android uses it for). And in this case, I would say it's more of a copy cat of OS X (for computers), because both have an application dock.

Then that cover flow thing I see, too, but then again -- the iPhone does not have web history, and as far as we know this is the only place where "cover flow" is used.....and it's not the first browser to do this type of thing, either.

But thats where the similarity ends. The GUI looks different then the iPhone -- the iPhone apps are all at the home page, lined up in rows. The Android (so far) is in a dock. The iPhone is dark, as in black....the Android is still dark, but it's more of a navy blue then, well, black...(that is the GUI).

And with all that said, this has been the GUI for about 6 months (we assume)....that means I doubt Google has had any time with developing what the GUI will look like. Notice how all these videos are on another site, for developers...not on the site where the "official" information is (aka the first announcement).

I am in the boat that it's too early to be this critical. This is not releasing until fall of 08, right? And yet a full year b4 OS X Leopard was release, when we saw it...it looked nothing like what we have today. yet you guys are judging this when it's 6 months into testing (considering that dude had it for 6 months, i assume it's been ready for 6 months to start testing)....why? Because people like bashing things before companies have time to finish them. This is more of Google's fault then ours, but still...give them credit where credit is due.

steviem
Nov 14, 2007, 10:11 AM
I think this shows google's admiration of Apple's GUI design. Anyone remember GoogleX? where they made a web based version of the dock with the magnification effect.

I think Android seems very powerful, and I like how they integrate XMPP into it, IM could kill SMS if android and iPhone (with iChat) become widespread for non techie phones.

The Emulator shows some very nice features, and might convince me to try and learn some Java :o

The only thing I wouldn't be a fan of is if they impose advertising in the notification bar. Now that would suck...

Pierremaison
Nov 14, 2007, 12:18 PM
Yah and the iPhone looks similar to the LG KE850 that came out first. What's your point?




Web development != real development tools and you dang well know that. Its a piss poor solution by Apple at best. They have backpedaled FAST on this though because its one of if not THE biggest complaint about the iCrap. However AFAIK they have yet to announce that they would be putting out real development tools for the iCrap. When that happens, and ONLY when that happens can someone claim that tools are on the horizon. Until then its vaporware.

Why Icrap? You seem to be angry about something?

Pierremaison
Nov 14, 2007, 12:56 PM
This is a far more exciting development than the travesty called the iPhone.
Why do you feel the Iphone is a travesty? Because Apple are protecting their investment by not making it open?

leigh.roy
Nov 14, 2007, 05:02 PM
This is a far more exciting development than the travesty called the iPhone.
Why do you feel the Iphone is a travesty? Because Apple are protecting their investment by not making it open?

Because it's something that could have been fantastic. It could have been perfect.

I have been waiting for a device like the iPhone for Years and when I saw the iPhone introduction I wept because my dreams were coming to fruition. OK that's an exaggeration, but there was a definite moment of "About ****ing time!". This wasn't because it was an Apple phone, or had a pretty interface or any of that crap, it was because it was a full touch screen device. No other input other than the screen which is the way ALL hand held devices should be.

Then it was revealed that it would be a closed device, and the ******** that was spouted to explain that cock-up was just immense! It takes the most wonderous device in the world and makes it common. It says "you will do things our way and like it!" All the flexibility of a fully customisable touch interface is thrown away. It's no longer smart, it's no longer mine.

And that crap about protecting their investment? Come on! You don't really believe that do you? Is Apple really that fragile? No other handset manufacturer has that problem. I could go on and on, but it has already been discussed to death elsewhere.

With Android I see the possibility of a fully touch based device done right, and if it's not done right then it can at least be fixed. Now that is exciting.

To summarise I'm just pissed at the Huge arrogance that seems to be pouring out of Apple recently. The iPhone is the nexus if this arrogance

Pierremaison
Nov 15, 2007, 01:53 AM
Because it's something that could have been fantastic. It could have been perfect.

I have been waiting for a device like the iPhone for Years and when I saw the iPhone introduction I wept because my dreams were coming to fruition. OK that's an exaggeration, but there was a definite moment of "About ****ing time!". This wasn't because it was an Apple phone, or had a pretty interface or any of that crap, it was because it was a full touch screen device. No other input other than the screen which is the way ALL hand held devices should be.

Then it was revealed that it would be a closed device, and the ******** that was spouted to explain that cock-up was just immense! It takes the most wonderous device in the world and makes it common. It says "you will do things our way and like it!" All the flexibility of a fully customisable touch interface is thrown away. It's no longer smart, it's no longer mine.

And that crap about protecting their investment? Come on! You don't really believe that do you? Is Apple really that fragile? No other handset manufacturer has that problem. I could go on and on, but it has already been discussed to death elsewhere.

With Android I see the possibility of a fully touch based device done right, and if it's not done right then it can at least be fixed. Now that is exciting.

To summarise I'm just pissed at the Huge arrogance that seems to be pouring out of Apple recently. The iPhone is the nexus if this arrogance

I can see why someone with your level of computer expertise is annoyed about the iPhone currently being locked down. However I feel the iPhone is not really aimed at you, or even the majority of the people on this discussu
ion group, it is a phone for the general public to use. Can you imagine the support issues and bad publicity, if they had allowed everyone to fiddle around with the inner workings of this phone. From Apples point of view it would have been a disaster and they would have quickly lost any ground they have recently made in this market, which is very new to them. And that is what I meant by protecting their investment, this is the first step for them and I look forward to seeing what is around the corner.

Bakey
Nov 15, 2007, 04:32 AM
Apple showed prototypes of the Mac to Microsoft and they stole it. Now Google is doing the same with the iPhone. Back stabbers.

FFS!! How many times does this story have to be re-told??

Do yourself a favour and do some research and get your facts right... :rolleyes:

Stella
Nov 15, 2007, 06:29 AM
That is exactly how I feel about the iPhone. It could have been great except they made a lot of bad decisions ( in my opinion ) to artificially cripple the phone.

The excuses that Apple came up with made it even worse - 'we don't want the entire cell network come crashing down'.. what utter BS. No smartphone has ever done that - and the iPhone isn't that special to change this.

However, I do think there is hope yet with the forthcoming SDK.

IMO, at this moment in time, Android looks like its going to have better potential than iPhone for market penetration and 3rd party developer support.

Because it's something that could have been fantastic. It could have been perfect.

I have been waiting for a device like the iPhone for Years and when I saw the iPhone introduction I wept because my dreams were coming to fruition. OK that's an exaggeration, but there was a definite moment of "About ****ing time!". This wasn't because it was an Apple phone, or had a pretty interface or any of that crap, it was because it was a full touch screen device. No other input other than the screen which is the way ALL hand held devices should be.

Then it was revealed that it would be a closed device, and the ******** that was spouted to explain that cock-up was just immense! It takes the most wonderous device in the world and makes it common. It says "you will do things our way and like it!" All the flexibility of a fully customisable touch interface is thrown away. It's no longer smart, it's no longer mine.

And that crap about protecting their investment? Come on! You don't really believe that do you? Is Apple really that fragile? No other handset manufacturer has that problem. I could go on and on, but it has already been discussed to death elsewhere.

With Android I see the possibility of a fully touch based device done right, and if it's not done right then it can at least be fixed. Now that is exciting.

To summarise I'm just pissed at the Huge arrogance that seems to be pouring out of Apple recently. The iPhone is the nexus if this arrogance

Pathfinder55
Nov 17, 2007, 04:10 PM
Does any one know what phone he is using in the first picture? And when do you think they will release this?

Intarweb
Nov 17, 2007, 04:41 PM
Ok sorry for the confusion. I meant these. Now I know some symbols are just unavoidable, but come on??? The volume and the mute at least are total Apple rip off. Once again, I'm not saying Apple hasn't ever copied, but come on, seriously lol...... :rolleyes:

P.S. these are not just place holders for other apps because this IS the phone app that Google wrote and includes (I know everything is customizable, but still). And I know my image lines suck lol :)

his has to be the most ridiculous post I have ever read on these forums. The scary thing is, you actually believe what your wrote/drew up. :(