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MacRumors
Nov 12, 2007, 03:31 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

In less than a week (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/07/apple-seeds-mac-os-x-10-5-1-9b13/) from the last developer seed, Apple has released another version of Mac OS X 10.5.1 to developers for testing.

The latest 10.5.1 seed (9B16) has "no known issues" but lists only a few updates since the previous build. These include updating applications even if moved out of /Applications, moving files to a different directory in Finder bug fix, and DNS resolution fixes. The update is not yet available to the general public.

10.5.1 represents the first maintenance release to Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) since its release only 3 weeks ago. While accelerated developer seeds traditionally indicate that Apple is approaching release, Apple's has yet to release the Mac OS X 10.4.11 update that has long been expected.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/12/apple-continues-work-on-first-leopard-update-10-5-1-build-9b16/)



Sky Blue
Nov 12, 2007, 03:32 PM
Can't wait!

Wonder if we'll see 10.4.11 at the same time...

FoxyKaye
Nov 12, 2007, 03:32 PM
Concurrent 10.4.11 and 10.5.1 on Friday?

cvahl
Nov 12, 2007, 03:34 PM
Hopefully, this will fix the keyboard and bluetooth-problems with my SR Macbook...

daveschroeder
Nov 12, 2007, 03:35 PM
Keep in mind that Leopard was declared GM 2-3 weeks before it actually shipped, and it wasn't as if work stopped on Leopard in the meantime...so it's not really the result of work only done since its retail release, but of all work done since 9A581 was declared the GM build of 10.5.0.

Eidorian
Nov 12, 2007, 03:35 PM
I hope they fix the deletion of failed Time Machine backups.

That and X3100 driver updates.

koobcamuk
Nov 12, 2007, 03:36 PM
I always get shaky running the first builds.. but haven't had a problem with 10.5 yet. I also haven't managed to do a backup (lack of superduper! support) so nothing major going on in my world... except waiting for a macbook pro...

j-a-x
Nov 12, 2007, 03:36 PM
Wow - Applications outside of the Applications folder? I've been waiting for that since 10.0!

EMU1337
Nov 12, 2007, 03:38 PM
I wonder if they might update the driver for the Aluminum iMac's. It would be really nice to play Madden '08, which I bought about a month ago.

cloudnine
Nov 12, 2007, 03:39 PM
Wow - Applications outside of the Applications folder? I've been waiting for that since 10.0!

Ditto that!

Sussman
Nov 12, 2007, 03:39 PM
I am looking forward to this update. But that being said, I do not regret getting Leopard as soon as I could. No major problems, lucky for me because I didn't even do a back-up before upgrading (I know, risky)

xUKHCx
Nov 12, 2007, 03:39 PM
All I need at the moment is airport fixes. Anything else is gravy.

Eidorian
Nov 12, 2007, 03:40 PM
Wow - Applications outside of the Applications folder? I've been waiting for that since 10.0!Updating true but applications will work otherwise outside of /Applications. ;)

justflie
Nov 12, 2007, 03:40 PM
I already got bit by the Leopard Finder bug and lost a file so fixing this is a good thing. :)

bdkennedy1
Nov 12, 2007, 03:40 PM
I really hope this fixes the missing artwork in Front Row bug when your share an iTunes library. A dozen other people in the Apple forums have the same problem.

Enterprise8875
Nov 12, 2007, 03:41 PM
Anyone know if they have fixed the nontransparent menu bar on 12" Powerbook bug?

Telp
Nov 12, 2007, 03:41 PM
Anyone know if they have fixed the nontransparent menu bar on 12" Powerbook bug?

Is that considered a bug now?

opuslab
Nov 12, 2007, 03:42 PM
Zzzz.... Waiting for the retail boxes to display a sticker "Now Inside v. 10.5.3" before I upgrade.

EricNau
Nov 12, 2007, 03:45 PM
Wonder if we'll see 10.4.11 at the same time...
I wouldn't be surprised if 10.4.11 was delayed; fixing all of the bugs in Leopard is a higher priority for Apple right now.

JQW
Nov 12, 2007, 03:46 PM
I wonder if the DNS resolver bug is the one that affects command line tools such as 'curl'? This breaks things such as fink, but only with certain external routers acting as your DNS server. Setting external DNS manually fixes the problem.

FoxyKaye
Nov 12, 2007, 03:47 PM
Zzzz.... Waiting for the retail boxes to display a sticker "Now Inside v. 10.5.3" before I upgrade.
Amen to that - although I do have an extra NFR license and some free time over Thanksgiving week. So if 10.5.1 hits some of the bigger issues, I might just be tempted enough to upgrade on my home system and start playing around with Leopard. Though for the moment, the only way Leopard is getting onto our network at work is if it ships with a new computer - everyone else is getting 10.4.11 and biding time.

/dev/toaster
Nov 12, 2007, 03:50 PM
Yet no fixes mentioned for Airport or other NAS for Time Machine. I am worried we might need to wait quite a while for them to fix it. That is, if they even fix it.

mountainbiker
Nov 12, 2007, 03:54 PM
Anyone know if they have fixed the nontransparent menu bar on 12" Powerbook bug?

Apple has a tech note out that certain machines don't have a video card that can support the transparent menu bar; unfortunately, I don't recall the exact specifics.

Darkroom
Nov 12, 2007, 03:57 PM
Wow - Applications outside of the Applications folder? I've been waiting for that since 10.0!

no longer being a slave to the applications folder is going to be a very nice change...

i'm curious if the 10.5.1 update will also be addressing all those crawly bugs that are eating away at Xcode/IB 3?

Veldek
Nov 12, 2007, 04:01 PM
Hope this solves the sleep issue on my Power Mac G5...

Mindflux
Nov 12, 2007, 04:03 PM
Yet no fixes mentioned for Airport or other NAS for Time Machine. I am worried we might need to wait quite a while for them to fix it. That is, if they even fix it.

This is going to require an Airport firmware update for the APF protocol changes.

offwidafairies
Nov 12, 2007, 04:06 PM
Anyone know if they have fixed the nontransparent menu bar on 12" Powerbook bug?

you WANT the transparent menu bar??????????????????????

brkirch
Nov 12, 2007, 04:07 PM
All I need at the moment is airport fixes. Anything else is gravy.

Same here. The Airport driver keeps causing my MacBook Pro to KP. :( They fixed the bug in the Airport driver that had caused my computer to KP on boot with 10.4.10, but introduced another bug that causes the computer to randomly KP when there is a lot of network activity.

Lartymarf
Nov 12, 2007, 04:07 PM
Anyone know if they have fixed the nontransparent menu bar on 12" Powerbook bug?

That's not a bug, that's a feature.
I'd rather it STAY solid.

johnnykrz
Nov 12, 2007, 04:12 PM
I, too, am most excited about being able to finally organize the /Applications folder the way I want to (without having to drag apps out when I want to update them).

Darkroom
Nov 12, 2007, 04:12 PM
That's not a bug, that's a feature.
I'd rather it STAY solid.

setting the desktop background to a medium grey not only cleans up the busyness, but it also gives a nice solid, non-transparent look to the menubar...

Analog Kid
Nov 12, 2007, 04:19 PM
I haven't had anything catastrophic happen with Leopard, but there are some annoyances. Having to force-relaunch finder periodically so I can eject volumes is a bummer. I think I finally squashed the creeping "group:everyone deny delete" ACL issue, but it apparently marked all my files as touched and freaked out Time Machine. Spotlight seems to crash and restart on occasion. PubSubAgent needs to be put up against a wall and shot.

Stuff like that.

Wow - Applications outside of the Applications folder? I've been waiting for that since 10.0!
Somebody probably just made the connection that Spotlight makes this much easier...
Anyone know if they have fixed the nontransparent menu bar on 12" Powerbook bug?
Anyone know if they've fixed the transparent men bar on everything else bug?

QCassidy352
Nov 12, 2007, 04:20 PM
Apple has a tech note out that certain machines don't have a video card that can support the transparent menu bar; unfortunately, I don't recall the exact specifics.

I wish *my* computer's graphics card didn't support the transparent menu bar... it just figures that's the one thing that the GMA 950 *can* do. :rolleyes:

Anyway, looking forward to the update. They really need to do something about the "back to my mac" feature, because that would be a really cool trick... you know, if it actually worked.

thesdx
Nov 12, 2007, 04:22 PM
It would be really nice if they had a setting where you could adjust the opacity of the menu bar. That way, those who wanted it could keep it, and those who don't could just turn it off. Plus, you could adjust the level of transparency to adapt to the desktop picture.

notsofatjames
Nov 12, 2007, 04:23 PM
I wonder if its just me, but I find safari really buggy. Maybe 10.5.1 will help me there somewhere. I doubt it though. Apart from that I have no problems with leopard.

bennifer3000
Nov 12, 2007, 04:28 PM
Besides giving us more options with "stacks" please address the Photoshop CS3 bug. I can't manually resize an image (IE: 100% to 94%) anymore, especially on the Height Field.

More Adobe's issue, but I'll complain all I want thank you very much.


It would be really nice if they had a setting where you could adjust the opacity of the menu bar. That way, those who wanted it could keep it, and those who don't could just turn it off. Plus, you could adjust the level of transparency to adapt to the desktop picture.

^QFE^

tallyho
Nov 12, 2007, 04:29 PM
you WANT the transparent menu bar??????????????????????
Yes. It looks great in my opinion, and the bizarre grey apple symbol at the top left on my 12" powerbook at the moment looks horrible. If not transparent then can we please have the pre-Leopard blue apple back?

twoodcc
Nov 12, 2007, 04:29 PM
hopefully this comes soon, and fixes madden 08

50548
Nov 12, 2007, 04:45 PM
Yes. It looks great in my opinion, and the bizarre grey apple symbol at the top left on my 12" powerbook at the moment looks horrible. If not transparent then can we please have the pre-Leopard blue apple back?

The translucent bar looks great in my opinion as well; I don't know what the hell is all this fuzz about the menu bar...it's almost a non-issue for any normal user out there.

psychofreak
Nov 12, 2007, 04:48 PM
I wonder if its just me, but I find safari really buggy. Maybe 10.5.1 will help me there somewhere. I doubt it though. Apart from that I have no problems with leopard.

After using Safari 3 beta since release, Safari's stability is awesome, even if it does crash sometimes...

Analog Kid
Nov 12, 2007, 04:49 PM
It would be really nice if they had a setting where you could adjust the opacity of the menu bar. That way, those who wanted it could keep it, and those who don't could just turn it off. Plus, you could adjust the level of transparency to adapt to the desktop picture.
That's half the problem. Apple tries to make this adjustment automagically. It works great for constant tone images, but I've got one of a bright sky bordered by dark trees on either side and Leopard can't find the right value. Can't read anything in the trees...

Changed to a night shot and everything works well enough.

With more tweaking, Apple might be able to be smart enough to automate the setting, but in the meantime, give me a slider-- or at least a checkbox.

brepublican
Nov 12, 2007, 04:51 PM
you WANT the transparent menu bar??????????????????????

Yes (for PPC users).

And we also want Safari 3 final for Tiger users. Come on Apple, we're your biggest customer base. Out with 10.4.11 already!

Analog Kid
Nov 12, 2007, 04:52 PM
The translucent bar looks great in my opinion as well; I don't know what the hell is all this fuzz about the menu bar...it's almost a non-issue for any normal user out there.
I love quotes like this... So reassuring to know I'm not normal. Sometimes I feel like I'm falling into conformity, then I realize: the menu bar is an issue for me! I'm an individual!

psychofreak
Nov 12, 2007, 04:53 PM
I love quotes like this... So reassuring to know I'm not normal. Sometimes I feel like I'm falling into conformity, then I realize: the menu bar is an issue for me! I'm an individual!

It looks MUCH better than Tiger with some backgrounds, however its rubbish for the majority...

cervaro
Nov 12, 2007, 04:57 PM
Well given this is the first time I've switched on my new MacBook Pro, even though I've got the Leopard upgrade disc, I won't be installing it until I read Apple have sorted out some of the reported problems thus far. Having been without a Mac for a couple of months since selling my iMac, I'm not willing to bork this machine just for the sake of installing Leopard.

Chris F
Nov 12, 2007, 04:59 PM
Fingers crossed they fix the airport driver issue that causes kernel panics. I have had to resort to going wired on my MBP otherwise it blows up within 5 mins-2 hours of me starting any torrent client.

milo
Nov 12, 2007, 04:59 PM
The translucent bar looks great in my opinion as well; I don't know what the hell is all this fuzz about the menu bar...it's almost a non-issue for any normal user out there.

It's definitely an issue if the transparency makes it harder to read the menu text.

It would be an easy fix, apple just needs to add a preference to either turn it off, or adjust the amount of transparency.

jacg
Nov 12, 2007, 05:00 PM
Yet no fixes mentioned for Airport or other NAS for Time Machine. I am worried we might need to wait quite a while for them to fix it. That is, if they even fix it.

That's why my Airport Extreme Base Station went back unopened to Apple today.

jeremytehjerk
Nov 12, 2007, 05:03 PM
i just hope they get the real fixes out quickly even if it means delays for some of the changes. overall leopard is great but where i live is a big college where leopard is unusable with campus internet because of leopards missing code on 802.1x. so you can guess how many people are lining up to make the switch to apple knowing that :\ even if the actual os shows up vista. seems like there are several missing part issues that are instant kills for some groups of users or whole locations in my case, fixing these should be a huge priority for apple who overall seems to be receiving good marks on leopard.

psychofreak
Nov 12, 2007, 05:06 PM
Yes (for PPC users).

And we also want Safari 3 final for Tiger users. Come on Apple, we're your biggest customer base. Out with 10.4.11 already!

Not all PPC users don't get the menubar...

milo
Nov 12, 2007, 05:09 PM
Good news, it looks like this build addresses the bug where data could be lost from a Move to a network drive that got disconnected during the move.

Probably the most serious bug in 10.5, glad to see that they are addressing it right away.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/11/12/latest_mac_os_x_10_5_1_build_fixes_finder_data_loss_issue.html

brepublican
Nov 12, 2007, 05:16 PM
Not all PPC users don't get the menubar...

I think that its most PPC users and only a few Intel Macs. But this also just reinforces Analog Kid's assertion that this is actually a bug

madmax_2069
Nov 12, 2007, 05:17 PM
People can tell Apple that we want a customizable GUI, like turn off or back on the eye candy when you want, the ability to change the brushed metal look of the windows to something else, change the sliders look color and what not. adjust and clearness of the menu , change the color of the Apple menu. i think Apple should want users to customize the way OS X looks, and provide a way to do it, and a tool to make your own and not have to rely on 3rd party mod's and hacks to obtain it.

i cant wait till 10.5.1 comes out so i can update and read what all they fixed, but i dont want them to rush it out and break more then they fix, or have a junk update. and i feel the same way for the 10.4.11 update as well

macffooky
Nov 12, 2007, 05:26 PM
Quitting Call of Dooty 2 on my white 24" iMac w/NVIDIA GeForce 7600GT frequently ends up with a totally screwed screen and:
kernel NVChannel(GL): Graphics channel timeout!in the console log.

a) I hope this gets sorted in 10.5.1

b) Connecting via Remote Desktop it's apparent that everything is running fine behind the (non)display. Anyone know how to zap the graphics back into life without restarting the machine ?

BWhaler
Nov 12, 2007, 05:27 PM
I hope this is a massive set of bug fixes, hopefully a ton more than a couple dozen.

Leopard overall is relatively solid, but there are a ton of rough edges needed some bug fixes.

And I hope the To-Do's and Mail integration and Spaces & Finder have been enhanced.

But overall, I feel good about installing Leopard on Day 1. Sure, some issues, but nothing fatal so far. And to get a huge bug patch a month or so later is great. I hope this one drops before Thanksgiving...

motulist
Nov 12, 2007, 05:38 PM
updating applications even if moved out of /Applications


Yes! This is one of those minor but huge things!

I keep my apps sorted into categories, but to do that and still have the apple update program work I had to create a second applications folder and then make an alias to all of my apps and only then am I able to sort them in to categories. And every time I install a new app I have to repeat the procedure - install into applications folder, make alias, drag alias to categorized app folder. And that makes my whole system more confusing when doing searches and what not.

Plus, when people see my setup they think it's really cool, and they want to set their system up the same way. Until now I had to tell anyone who's not technically advanced that they shouldn't do it.

But now I can!

This is a seemingly minor enhancement that actually creates a HUGE advance in user friendliness and accessibility to the average user.

Good job Apple!

motulist
Nov 12, 2007, 05:56 PM
can we please have the pre-Leopard blue apple [menu icon] back?

All you need to do is look in the OS's package contents, locate the image of the apple that's displayed in the menu bar, open it up in a graphics program and change the color. Basically it's the same method people are using to change the dock images.

*** caution: anything you do alter the OS could potentially damage or destroy your computer, attempt at your own risk. ***

but this type of hack really has almost no potential to harm your system

Taylor C
Nov 12, 2007, 05:59 PM
I LOVE Leopard, but I might be returning to Tiger for awhile if they don't add the option to toggle stacks on and off and re-implement contextual functionality. In an ideal situation, I would like a solid menu bar option as well, but I highly doubt we'll see that.

psychofreak
Nov 12, 2007, 06:03 PM
I LOVE Leopard, but I might be returning to Tiger for awhile if they don't add the option to toggle stacks on and off and re-implement contextual functionality. In an ideal situation, I would like a solid menu bar option as well, but I highly doubt we'll see that.

Candybar v3 will add dock customization options...I'm desperately waiting for that...

tribulation
Nov 12, 2007, 06:17 PM
so many bugs i'm hoping that get fixed to make the upgrade bearable
but the 'updating applications even if moved out of /Applications' part is unexpected and long overdue,props there :apple:! :D

my dislike of stacks because of the popup hier folders in the dock is known here so i wont say it again.but now that it sounds like :apple: might finally let us install their apps on other drives or somewhere else doesnt that just kill the usefulness of stacks and reiterate the fact EVEN MORE that people put things in folders more than 1 level deep and need a fast way,aka hierarchal folders in dock,to get to them??
im not complaining that they are finally adding support it sounds to put their apps somewhere else other than the single Applications folder,but seems strange that just now they add this when in other ways it seems that theyre trying to force everyone to use 1 folder for everything with no sub folders,since thats all stacks does right now

cubman7
Nov 12, 2007, 06:17 PM
I don't know if anyone else has had this problem, but when I upgraded to Leopard, my macbook pro sometimes takes about 3 minutes to wake from sleep and when it finally does, there is lag between the time i move my finger on the trackpad to the time the pointer moves on screen. I love Leopard but this has been a really annoying issue i hope they address.

Taylor C
Nov 12, 2007, 06:23 PM
All of my machines are performing much better with Leopard. I've had absolutely no issues, not even with CS3 (I have a legit copy, thank you). My only gripes are with the menu bar and dock functionality. If I could have it my way, I'd like Tiger's dock back (its visual appearance) in addition to contextual menu support.

AidenShaw
Nov 12, 2007, 06:25 PM
Keep in mind that Leopard was declared GM 2-3 weeks before it actually shipped, and it wasn't as if work stopped on Leopard in the meantime...so it's not really the result of work only done since its retail release, but of all work done since 9A581 was declared the GM build of 10.5.0.

Software development doesn't work like that - as you approach GM you have to drop the rate of code change to zero. If you don't you obviously won't reach GM. Even worse, a "fix" might not work, or might make problems pop up somewhere else.

That literally means making the decision that "we will ship this bug". And this bug. And this bug....

At the same time, those bugs go into the .1 release for fixing. This reduces the risk to the GM, and gives more time for testing the fixes.

I'm sure that Apple was working on .1 long before the first release candidates.

tribulation
Nov 12, 2007, 06:26 PM
no longer being a slave to the applications folder is going to be a very nice change...

i'm curious if the 10.5.1 update will also be addressing all those crawly bugs that are eating away at Xcode/IB 3?

just in case they dont fix this and you didnt know,
you can put the apple and finicky apps on other drives and use symbolic links to them in the applications folder.the software update will see them then and you can store on another drive but lame workaround that shouldnt need to be used

motulist
Nov 12, 2007, 06:36 PM
Software development doesn't work like that - as you approach GM you have to drop the rate of code change to zero. If you don't you obviously won't reach GM. Even worse, a "fix" might not work, or might make problems pop up somewhere else.

That literally means making the decision that "we will ship this bug". And this bug. And this bug....

At the same time, those bugs go into the .1 release for fixing. This reduces the risk to the GM, and gives more time for testing the fixes.

I'm sure that Apple was working on .1 long before the first release candidates.

I think you misunderstood him. I believe he was saying that the day 10.5 was declared GM, the programmers were still working on Leopard in the form of creating the 10.5.1 update. So he's saying if 10.5 was declared GM 2 weeks before it's released, and 10.5.1 comes out 2 weeks after the initial release hit the store shelf, then 10.5.1 actually has 1 whole month of programming work put into it.

Baron58
Nov 12, 2007, 06:39 PM
I always get shaky running the first builds.. but haven't had a problem with 10.5 yet. I also haven't managed to do a backup (lack of superduper! support)


Uh, hello? Time Machine? Main reason why I wanted 10.5 so much. SuperDuper! is history!

synth3tik
Nov 12, 2007, 06:44 PM
good! I had a couple 2600 kids laughing at my DNS issues last week. That made me sad.:(

AidenShaw
Nov 12, 2007, 07:48 PM
I think you misunderstood him. I believe he was saying that the day 10.5 was declared GM, the programmers were still working on Leopard in the form of creating the 10.5.1 update. So he's saying if 10.5 was declared GM 2 weeks before it's released, and 10.5.1 comes out 2 weeks after the initial release hit the store shelf, then 10.5.1 actually has 1 whole month of programming work put into it.

No, I think that you misunderstood me.

Weeks or months before Leopard went GM, the project managers were sorting bugs into two columns:

A: We must fix this before GM
B: This isn't serious enough, or is too risky to fix before GM - this goes into the 10.5.1 list.

I'm saying that what you call a "whole month" scenario is more likely a couple of months or more. I think that it's likely that 10.5.1 has been in "development" since soon after the WWDC preview build.

todd2000
Nov 12, 2007, 08:18 PM
I already got bit by the Leopard Finder bug and lost a file so fixing this is a good thing. :)

What is "The Leopard Finder Bug?" I've coped files to, and fro, and haven't lost anything yet.

Balooba
Nov 12, 2007, 08:18 PM
Anyone know if they have fixed the nontransparent menu bar on 12" Powerbook bug?

Bug? That is the feature of the century!

Where can I get my hands on a used 12" PB?

motulist
Nov 12, 2007, 08:36 PM
No, I think that you misunderstood me.

Weeks or months before Leopard went GM, the project managers were sorting bugs into two columns:

A: We must fix this before GM
B: This isn't serious enough, or is too risky to fix before GM - this goes into the 10.5.1 list.

I'm saying that what you call a "whole month" scenario is more likely a couple of months or more. I think that it's likely that 10.5.1 has been in "development" since soon after the WWDC preview build.

I think most people wouldn't consider simply putting a bug onto a list called 'fix in .1 update' as constituting 'working on the .1 update.'

glennsan
Nov 12, 2007, 08:48 PM
My only complaint when I upgraded to Leopard, my Intel iMac screen is very dim after I turn it on. If I go to the brightness setting in Displays I find that it has been set to as low as possible. This is very annoying. :confused:

Anybody else have this problem or can think of a fix? :rolleyes:

Thanks.

Glennsan

SiliconAddict
Nov 12, 2007, 08:50 PM
they hd better get some of the WIFI \ keychain issues I've been having solved. removing the password on wake from sleep has fixed part of my problems but even then occasionally waking the system up it "forgets" my router passphrase. Its annoying as heck.

Other then that and one complete freeze up that required me to hold the power button I've been good.

EDIT: Check that...two complete freezes. Seems like I can completely and totally lock up OS X when I go from WIFI to LAN and change my location. BAM. INSTANT FREEZE EVERY TIME.. :\

PrintThis
Nov 12, 2007, 08:52 PM
Can't wait for the .1 update. Installed Leopard but the issues forced me back to Tiger.

Issues:

Connections to SMB shares was broken. i.e. SMB://servername/share Under Leopard, those connections were being routed over the internet as if the servername was a URL. The workaround was to use the lan IP address for the server, but I use my MPB on assorted networks where getting IPs is not practical. It's all done by the machine name.

But that's OK. I could almost live with that bug, except once I got shares working, trying to copy files from a network share was dial-up slow. Small files were taking forever. Movies and music? Forget it. Totally unusable. Others have reported this same issue and the alleged fix involves making IPv6 changes on the Mac (er, ok...) and on the Windows server (right, like clients are going to LET me go do around reconfiguring all the servers to work with my MBP).

What happened to "It just works"??? It did and does work under Tiger.

Also, Leopard's help menu was broken. Click help. Wait a moment for it to load, and it closes itself. Try again. Same thing. Minor issue to be sure but disconcerting.

On the plus side, I was happier with Leopard's resource management. Memory and CPU use at idle seemed better. Apps loaded faster. Second Life ran cooler. Dashboard didn't appear to load until or unless I actually wanted to use it. Space was nice.

Eager to see what the point release brings....

akac
Nov 12, 2007, 08:57 PM
Can't wait for the .1 update. Installed Leopard but the issues forced me back to Tiger.

Issues:

Connections to SMB shares was broken. i.e. SMB://servername/share Under Leopard, those connections were being routed over the internet as if the servername was a URL. The workaround was to use the lan IP address for the server, but I use my MPB on assorted networks where getting IPs is not practical. It's all done by the machine name.

But that's OK. I could almost live with that bug, except once I got shares working, trying to copy files from a network share was dial-up slow. Small files were taking forever. Movies and music? Forget it. Totally unusable. Others have reported this same issue and the alleged fix involves making IPv6 changes on the Mac (er, ok...) and on the Windows server (right, like clients are going to LET me go do around reconfiguring all the servers to work with my MBP).

What happened to "It just works"??? It did and does work under Tiger.

Also, Leopard's help menu was broken. Click help. Wait a moment for it to load, and it closes itself. Try again. Same thing. Minor issue to be sure but disconcerting.

On the plus side, I was happier with Leopard's resource management. Memory and CPU use at idle seemed better. Apps loaded faster. Second Life ran cooler. Dashboard didn't appear to load until or unless I actually wanted to use it. Space was nice.

Eager to see what the point release brings....

Did you do an upgrade install or Archive install? I find that most Leopard issues could be fixed with an Archive install.

tribulation
Nov 12, 2007, 08:57 PM
Not all PPC users don't get the menubar...

just goes to show that if the only valid reason :apple: would have to try and force us all to use the annoying translucent menu bar is to force consistency on EVERY mac to keep up their 'image',aka whenever you see it you think of :apple:
EXCEPT
that is inconsistent in itself.an option to turn off the ugliness wouldnt cause any more or less inconsistency then is already there and will be there for years.all it'll do is piss off users like me that hate it and are getting VERY sick of the increasing lockdown on customization to an almost imperialistic level
if they keep this up I wouldnt be surprised if in 10.6 or 10.7 that you cant even customize your icons because it would be more inconsistent with the apple-god

AidenShaw
Nov 12, 2007, 09:01 PM
I think most people wouldn't consider simply putting a bug onto a list called 'fix in .1 update' as constituting 'working on the .1 update.'

Sorry not to have spelled it out, but "putting a bug on a list" usually means that the developers responsible for that component are assigned to work on a fix for the bug.

Of course, the developers who "own" some class B bugs (fix in 10.5.1) might also own some class A bugs (gotta fix for GM), so not all of them immediately start to work on 10.5.1.

You don't ship the .1 update a couple of weeks after release unless you've been working on the problems.

Analog Kid
Nov 12, 2007, 09:03 PM
I think most people wouldn't consider simply putting a bug onto a list called 'fix in .1 update' as constituting 'working on the .1 update.'
No, but concurrent development would... As reduce critical bugs, the development workload decreases while the test load increases. Testing is usually a different group of individuals, which leaves the developers free to start working on the next thing. The code is branched so the release isn't touched, and work begins on the next point release.

Tampa Tom
Nov 12, 2007, 10:20 PM
It would be a BIG help. Now at least once a day it freezes up solid!:mad:

Maniamac
Nov 12, 2007, 10:33 PM
It seems that Apple is not classifying the lack of menu bar translucence as a bug. This despite a support rep telling me a couple weeks ago that it is a bug and scheduled to be fixed in 10.5.1.

The support doc, updated November 6, sheds new light on this. Interestingly, the original support doc, from October 30, stated that all graphics cards compatible with Core Image will display the translucent menu bar. The revision now makes it a point to specifically exclude the GeForce FX 5200 as it supposedly isn't capable of certain OpenGL Core Image calls.

I have since called Apple Support again to gain further clarification; this time, the support rep merely read the aforementioned document to me.

Admittedly, I lack the technical proficience to be certain of this, but Apple's claim in the support doc seems dubious to me. Can anyone shed some light on this, particularly in regard to whether a driver bug may be to blame, or is this card just topped out?

dr_lha
Nov 12, 2007, 10:55 PM
I think that its most PPC users and only a few Intel Macs. But this also just reinforces Analog Kid's assertion that this is actually a bug
No, the people who don't get the transparent menubar are people who have machines with graphics cards with the words "GeForce" and "5200" in them. I have a 1.8Ghz Dual G5 that clearly has the horsepower and graphics capability to do menubar transparency (after all, it does menu transparency!) that has the solid grey menubar.

This is a bug, its got nothing to do with "not having a powerful enough graphics card". There isn't a Mac available that officially supports Leopard who's GFX card can't do a simple transparency/blur on a static background.

dr_lha
Nov 12, 2007, 11:00 PM
Admittedly, I lack the technical proficience to be certain of this, but Apple's claim in the support doc seems dubious to me.
I agree, if Apple is blaming this on the GFX card that is extremely its dubious. If the menus can do the transparent/blur thing, why not the menubar? I mean, the background to a menubar is static, so you could easily do the Leopard effect in software, let alone with a fancy GFX card. Apple's fancy new OpenGL implementation is supposed to handle the deficiencies of a GFX card after all.

Maybe they just don't care about people with old Macs enough to bother fixing it? ;)

Analog Kid
Nov 13, 2007, 01:19 AM
I agree, if Apple is blaming this on the GFX card that is extremely its dubious. If the menus can do the transparent/blur thing, why not the menubar? I mean, the background to a menubar is static, so you could easily do the Leopard effect in software, let alone with a fancy GFX card. Apple's fancy new OpenGL implementation is supposed to handle the deficiencies of a GFX card after all.

Maybe they just don't care about people with old Macs enough to bother fixing it? ;)
I dunno. Seems like a strange place to put a switch in the code just for the purpose of irritating a few people. I suppose it's possible that there's a bug such as including the GFX 5200 in the wrong branch of the switch, but I think it's more likely that there is in fact a limitation with that card.

Just pulling this out of my ass, but perhaps it has to do with the automatic calculation of the transparency? Are they using a custom shader for that? Maybe the problem is with the extreme aspect ratio of the menu bar?

I agree that a workaround would be to draw it once, since it is relatively static, but there must be a reason that they don't do that as a matter of course. Maybe it has to do with the text and icons that get drawn onto it?

No matter how I slice it though, I have a hard time finding a conspiracy...

PrintThis
Nov 13, 2007, 01:54 AM
Did you do an upgrade install or Archive install? I find that most Leopard issues could be fixed with an Archive install.

That was one of the funny things, now that you mention it. It never asked me how I wanted to do the install; it did it as an upgrade-in-place all on its own.

I was waiting to be prompted or asked but that never happened. It did give me the "customize" options for languages and such, but I believe that was the only thing it asked.

Thought about doing a bare drive install but ran out of time to redo it. By the time I have time again after the holiday, the point release might be out so I'll just wait and see. Tiger has been plenty good to me so I can happily wait for Leopard a little longer.

cyprian.pl
Nov 13, 2007, 04:31 AM
I hope they change the transparent menu bar, stacks behaviour [I need a rightclick! scrolling would be nice too], I would also like to be able to move / reorder Finder window side dock elements [devices, shares etc], new folder icons would be nice, iSync fixes, crashing apps fixes, compatibility fixes.... apple, bring a lots of fixes! :)

ghettochild
Nov 13, 2007, 04:54 AM
I hope 10.5.1 fixes the wake-from-sleep issues (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1197774). This is a major bug that, under 10.5, leaves 60% of my hardware useless.

avkills
Nov 13, 2007, 06:52 AM
I dunno. Seems like a strange place to put a switch in the code just for the purpose of irritating a few people. I suppose it's possible that there's a bug such as including the GFX 5200 in the wrong branch of the switch, but I think it's more likely that there is in fact a limitation with that card.

Just pulling this out of my ass, but perhaps it has to do with the automatic calculation of the transparency? Are they using a custom shader for that? Maybe the problem is with the extreme aspect ratio of the menu bar?

I agree that a workaround would be to draw it once, since it is relatively static, but there must be a reason that they don't do that as a matter of course. Maybe it has to do with the text and icons that get drawn onto it?

No matter how I slice it though, I have a hard time finding a conspiracy...

I don't think you are getting the whole picture. I have a G5 with a X800 XT driving a 30" Cinema display. At native res (dual link DVI-D) I get no transparent menu bar and glitches maximizing from the dock and full screen quicktime tears.

The minute I lower the resolution one notch (not a dual link signal anymore) the problems go away. This is clearly a software bug.

All other core image OS effects are Leopard normal at native res and below.

-mark

Kaptajn Haddock
Nov 13, 2007, 06:56 AM
I hope it fixes the most embarrasing bug ever!

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5140730

lamina
Nov 13, 2007, 07:58 AM
I hope it fixes the most embarrasing bug ever!

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5140730

I thought I was crazy! It only happens once in a while, but I thought it was just a figment of my imagination. Good to know I'm not alone.

PS: I say .1 drops within the next few days, if not today or tomorrow.

madmax_2069
Nov 13, 2007, 08:11 AM
I thought I was crazy! It only happens once in a while, but I thought it was just a figment of my imagination. Good to know I'm not alone.

PS: I say .1 drops within the next few days, if not today or tomorrow.


yea same here, altho i don't run into it all of the time but it does get rather annoying after wile

i just had my first crash with safari in Leopard a few minutes ago, this is the first time anything has crashed in Leopard for me

TheChemist
Nov 13, 2007, 08:23 AM
I hope that 10.5.1 fixes the issue that causes my hard drive to show up twice in finder.

The only way to fix this is to relaunch finder.

Kind of special that i have to relaunch the finder every time i boot up.

Airport fixes are welcome and bluetooth stability too.

Otherwise , I'm quite happy with Leopard

ghall
Nov 13, 2007, 09:04 AM
I hope this fixes the airport issues I've had. 90% of the time it won't even see my AirPort Express, and instead connect to my neighbors Linksys. :mad:

jellomizer
Nov 13, 2007, 09:05 AM
The translucent bar looks great in my opinion as well; I don't know what the hell is all this fuzz about the menu bar...it's almost a non-issue for any normal user out there.

The problem is it is now dependent on your background image. I used the Earth Hurricane background image and it looks great. If I used the leafs background images it look OK until I run an Application that uses External Control Boxes, Such as Photoshop and Office X. Then it looks really out of place.

jellomizer
Nov 13, 2007, 09:48 AM
As a fellow early adopter of Leopard. I would like to make a note, getting all angry and annoyed that there are a bunch of bugs in Leopard shouldn't be a surprise it is what happens after every new 10.x.0 release. Yes report the bugs and try to get them fixed. But don't go all crazy because things don't work. If you want a stable System you should have stayed with Tiger until say 10.5.3 or so. Going OMG New OS Releasing it is going to be excellent you are just fooling yourself.

igazza
Nov 13, 2007, 10:17 AM
The problem is it is now dependent on your background image. I used the Earth Hurricane background image and it looks great. If I used the leafs background images it look OK until I run an Application that uses External Control Boxes, Such as Photoshop and Office X. Then it looks really out of place.


if anybody hates the dock they should dl the dockdoctor widget that puts it back into 2d :apple:

Kaptajn Haddock
Nov 13, 2007, 10:36 AM
I thought I was crazy! It only happens once in a while, but I thought it was just a figment of my imagination. Good to know I'm not alone.

PS: I say .1 drops within the next few days, if not today or tomorrow.

You are not crazy. That thread has been watched over 10.000 times. That must be close to a record. Please read it through and file a bugreport to Apple. The more people that do so the faster Apple will address the problem.

bdj21ya
Nov 13, 2007, 11:22 AM
I'm glad to see they're on top of this. iPhone updates are great and all, but these things are sorely needed.

Roy Hobbs
Nov 13, 2007, 12:00 PM
Uh, hello? Time Machine? Main reason why I wanted 10.5 so much. SuperDuper! is history!

SuperDuper is far from history. Have fun waiting for hours while Time Machine restores to a new drive, while I simply boot from my SuperDuper backup.

seashellz2
Nov 13, 2007, 12:20 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if 10.4.11 was delayed; fixing all of the bugs in Leopard is a higher priority for Apple right now.
--
WITH 10.4.11 CONSTANTLY BEING READY TO RELEASE "ANY MOMENT" since August, I cant imagine what more they could do.
It will fix a couple small bugs I have.

Sounding like Leopard is a near beta disaster for a larger than normal number of people and some unforgivable software/architecture goofs, Ill wait until 10.5.2

tribulation
Nov 13, 2007, 01:14 PM
--
WITH 10.4.11 CONSTANTLY BEING READY TO RELEASE "ANY MOMENT" since August, I cant imagine what more they could do.
It will fix a couple small bugs I have.

Sounding like Leopard is a near beta disaster for a larger than normal number of people and some unforgivable software/architecture goofs, Ill wait until 10.5.2

thats definitely a good idea :)
i wasted 2 days doing a manual clean install after the leopard archive &install got things all messed up.then i tried and tried to like it but leopard currently SUCKS in my opinion
horribly bug ridden,some idiotic 'features' like stacks [OMFG apple wtf?!],did i say bugs?after those 2 days of installing and another 2 trying to convince myself that there really was something worthwhile in leopard and i could eventually overlook some of the idiotic UI decisions,i reinstalled tiger.
Im now back in tiger until some major leopard updates come out and praying that stacks go away forever.A preference to turn off the near-invisible menu bar would be NICE to have also for those of us with less than perfect vision and or those that prefer other desktop backgrounds than the stock one,though even that one looks like you know what and is hard to read

summary = i would not upgrade until the bugs are fixed and hopefully the entire leopard graphics department is fired.i say it again,Apple,WTF?!?!! :confused::confused:

Peace
Nov 13, 2007, 01:18 PM
SuperDuper is far from history. Have fun waiting for hours while Time Machine restores to a new drive, while I simply boot from my SuperDuper backup.

I backed up my system using Time Machine yesterday.Today I installed a new Hard Drive in bay 1 of my Mac Pro.Stuck in the Leopard DVD.Rebooted and restored from the Time Machine backup.Took 35 minutes.

Derbus
Nov 13, 2007, 01:36 PM
Howdy ya'll,

I'm a first timer here, that being said... Is there anyone else that would like to see Time Machine support External Hard Disk Drives connected to an Airpot Base Station or is that just me? :o

akac
Nov 13, 2007, 01:58 PM
That was one of the funny things, now that you mention it. It never asked me how I wanted to do the install; it did it as an upgrade-in-place all on its own.

I was waiting to be prompted or asked but that never happened. It did give me the "customize" options for languages and such, but I believe that was the only thing it asked.

Thought about doing a bare drive install but ran out of time to redo it. By the time I have time again after the holiday, the point release might be out so I'll just wait and see. Tiger has been plenty good to me so I can happily wait for Leopard a little longer.

It was there. I did enough installs over the last couple weeks and its always been there. Its in the screen where you choose the drive.

akac
Nov 13, 2007, 02:04 PM
Howdy ya'll,

I'm a first timer here, that being said... Is there anyone else that would like to see Time Machine support External Hard Disk Drives connected to an Airpot Base Station or is that just me? :o

Many of us. But its requires an Airport firmware update.

brepublican
Nov 13, 2007, 05:49 PM
No, the people who don't get the transparent menubar are people who have machines with graphics cards with the words "GeForce" and "5200" in them. I have a 1.8Ghz Dual G5 that clearly has the horsepower and graphics capability to do menubar transparency (after all, it does menu transparency!) that has the solid grey menubar.

This is a bug, its got nothing to do with "not having a powerful enough graphics card". There isn't a Mac available that officially supports Leopard who's GFX card can't do a simple transparency/blur on a static background.

I dont follow. We seem to be saying the same thing (its a bug), and yet somehow you are disagreeing with me? And I never mentioned anything about Graphics cards in my post either :confused:

BKKbill
Nov 13, 2007, 09:12 PM
I thought I was crazy! It only happens once in a while, but I thought it was just a figment of my imagination. Good to know I'm not alone.

PS: I say .1 drops within the next few days, if not today or tomorrow.

Ditto for me although not as often on this 2nd iMac. At least no more freezing.

John Musbach
Nov 14, 2007, 12:26 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

In less than a week (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/07/apple-seeds-mac-os-x-10-5-1-9b13/) from the last developer seed, Apple has released another version of Mac OS X 10.5.1 to developers for testing.

The latest 10.5.1 seed (9B16) has "no known issues" but lists only a few updates since the previous build. These include updating applications even if moved out of /Applications, moving files to a different directory in Finder bug fix, and DNS resolution fixes. The update is not yet available to the general public.

10.5.1 represents the first maintenance release to Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) since its release only 3 weeks ago. While accelerated developer seeds traditionally indicate that Apple is approaching release, Apple's has yet to release the Mac OS X 10.4.11 update that has long been expected.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/12/apple-continues-work-on-first-leopard-update-10-5-1-build-9b16/)
This is good news and all but I'm a little disappointed more doesn't seem to be happening with the 10.4.11 update :(

madmax_2069
Nov 14, 2007, 02:07 AM
This is good news and all but I'm a little disappointed more doesn't seem to be happening with the 10.4.11 update :(

i hope they dont cancel 10.4.11, cause a bit still needs to be done to it to make it more complete and better running for Machines that cant go to Leopard.

achtung!
Nov 14, 2007, 04:11 AM
i'm a ppc user and i was little worried about upgrading to leopard. every time i visit this forums i see ppl complaining, arguing and whipping about bugs and instability, but i've recently upgraded to leopard. it seems much more solid, and about 30% faster on my ppc machine (PB 1,66ghz, 1gb ram). all my previously installed apps work great. although the dock is ugly, the stacks are useless and the menu bar is visual inconsistent. i had huge huge probs with my Ethernet. LAG LAG LAG... sometimes expose don't recognize the app i want to bring to front. i had sound probs also, where no output device was recognized. :eek:, quick look disappearing while navigating to the system preferences it's kinda confusing as well. in the finder, i still think the arrows of the top buttons are not well aligned in the center of the button. the same with all the other buttons. the aqua scrolls don't fit anymore. visually the system is a bit messy, but i recognize some efforts here. until now, i didn't have any system or app crash. the beachballs are still present, but less often. so i'm expecting to see a lots of improvements.

i dont' know if we can do it now, but i would like the ability to reduce the size (proportionally) of a widget to 50% or whatever. 'cause webclip for me is useless. all my "webcliped" widgets take a massive dashboard space...

i'm hungry, let's eat 10.5.1! :D

oblomow
Nov 14, 2007, 03:19 PM
10.4.11 is available!

The 10.4.11 Update is recommended for all users running Mac OS X Tiger and includes general operating system fixes that enhance the stability, compatibility and security of your Mac. This update also includes Safari 3, the latest version of Apple's web browser.

For detailed information on this update, please visit this website: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306297.
For detailed information on security updates, please visit this website: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61798.