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Plutoniq
Sep 22, 2003, 06:02 PM
What the hell is going on? This CompactPCI company is producing a board with Dual 1.3ghz IBM PPC 750GX processors. This is nuts, not only does it prove that IBM G3's can be used in a dual processor configuration, but it also means that IBM are getting higher speeds than the specs they released for the PPC 750GX. In IBM's PPC roadmap, the 750GX is only supposed to reach speeds of 1.1ghz. Unless these CPU's are overclocked, it means that 750GX's are currentley being produced in excess of 1.1ghz.

Link;

www.xes-inc.com/Products/XCalibur/XCalibur1100/ tech_docs/Datasheet/XCalibur1100ds_web.pdf

Seeya,

p'z

Plutoniq
Sep 22, 2003, 06:04 PM
Enter the full address above manually into your address bar, didn't make full link!

AngryAngel
Sep 22, 2003, 06:11 PM
Looks like good news for future Apple computers based on this chip. Strangely, this machine seems to run the 1.3Ghz chip on a 150Mhz bus, with no L3 cache either.

P-Worm
Sep 22, 2003, 06:35 PM
Great find!

It'll be interesting to see what comes from all of this...

P-Worm

Tiauguinho
Sep 22, 2003, 06:36 PM
Now this is extremely interesting! I wonder who can get an explanation for this, cause i always thought that the G3's couldnt go dual's...

applemacdude
Sep 22, 2003, 06:43 PM
Good better than anything than moto has come up with

lmalave
Sep 22, 2003, 07:14 PM
Well, I'll be damned. If you zoom in on the picture of the board, it clearly shows the board having one IBM CPU with an empty slot for another IBM CPU. I'm not sure what that means for the iBook, though. Maybe the next revision will come in at 1.1GHz for the low-end and 1.3GHz for the high end. I don't know if we'll ever see dual G3s in an iBook, though. From a marketing standpoint, it would be hard to sell a dual-CPU machine as a low-end computer unless they also had dual-CPUs accross their entire product line (so like if PowerBooks, iMacs, and eMacs were all upgraded to dual-G5s). I don't see that happening, though. I think the next iBook revision after the 750GX will either be a super souped-up next-gen G3 (maybe with Altivec), or they'll just jump to a G5 that runs a few hundred MHz slower than the rest of the line (so maybe they introduce a 1.2 GHz G5 iBook when the eMacs are at about 1.6 GHz, the PowerBooks and iMacs at at least 2GHz, and the PowerMacs at dual 3 GHz)

realityisterror
Sep 22, 2003, 08:04 PM
has an apple notebook ever had dual processors?
if so, what is the product number?

reality

nek
Sep 22, 2003, 08:15 PM
I've know about this for a little while, I was quoted on Macosrumors about 2 weeks ago explaining this very point. Along with the 750GX being capable of dual processor setups, the previous generation 750FX is capable of that as well.

The G3 is also capable of supporting a bus faster than 200MHz, unlike the G4's limit of 167MHz. Actually the 750FX will support a 260MHz bus according to a PDF available from IBM's website. I would assume that the 750GX would be the same.

All that it really lacks is Altivec compared to the G4.

applemacdude
Sep 22, 2003, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by realityisterror
has an apple notebook ever had dual processors?
if so, what is the product number?

reality

no and the yprobaly never will unless someone finds a way to cool down laptops

Sun Baked
Sep 22, 2003, 08:27 PM
Interesting...

Extreme Engineering Solutions is using the Marvell Discovery III System Controller.

Wonder if they have plans for using the Marvell Discovery 970 System Controller (http://www-1.ibm.com/press/PressServletForm.wss?MenuChoice=pressreleases&TemplateName=ShowPressReleaseTemplate&SelectString=t1.docunid=5861&TableName=DataheadApplicationClass&SESSIONKEY=any&WindowTitle=Press+Release&STATUS=publish) soon.

Plutoniq
Sep 22, 2003, 08:38 PM
Hmmm.... the .PDF link I initially sent (dual 750GX) seems to be for an upcoming product, as they don't seem to have it for sale on their product page.

What they do have is a Dual 850mhz 750FX (IBM's current G3 CPU);

http://xes-inc.com/Products/XCalibur/XCalibur1000/XCalibur1000.html

So, yes....I guess even the 750FX had the potential of a dual processor enviroment.....

http://xes-inc.com/Products/XCalibur/XCalibur1100/XCalibur1100.html

Thats the webpage for the unrealesed Xcalibur1100. Two mistakes I have since found;

-The block diagram has the CPU listed as IBM 750FX

-In the specs at the bottom of the page, it lists the 750GX having 512k of L2 Cache, when in reality this is 1mb.

Still don't know what it means though, maybe all a mistake?

p'z

TEG
Sep 22, 2003, 09:08 PM
Niiiiiiiiiiiice!

Lets hope these make their way into iBooks.

TEG

macphoria
Sep 22, 2003, 10:36 PM
This is an awesome news. So 750gx is well under way. This opens up doors for future of iBook. Maybe we'll hear about 750vx soon.

nagromme
Sep 22, 2003, 11:48 PM
Dual CPUs in laptops is feasible: just don't run the second one (and its fans) unless plugged in.

Also, there have been dual-capable G3-based Mac clones, way back when the G3 was new. The G3 may not be ideal for multiprocessing (until now?), but it has been done. I came across several at everymac.com.

Catfish_Man
Sep 23, 2003, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by nagromme
Dual CPUs in laptops is feasible: just don't run the second one (and its fans) unless plugged in.

Also, there have been dual-capable G3-based Mac clones, way back when the G3 was new. The G3 may not be ideal for multiprocessing (until now?), but it has been done. I came across several at everymac.com.

The G4 has much more extensive multiprocessor support, but it's certainly possible to do a dual G3. I don't know how effective it is, though. Interesting that they can get the clock so high on a 4 pipeline stage chip. This thing isn't going to be killing dual 1.43GHz G4s anytime soon, but I bet it could take on the 1.25 for non-altivec stuff. Slower bus (150MHz 60x vs. 167MHz MPX), and no L3, but a nice big L2 and a short pipeline (I'm not sure how the branch prediction is relative to the G4, they may have left it a bit weaker since it doesn't need it as much). I wonder how IBM's getting it clocked so high... bumping the voltage up perhaps?

Abstract
Sep 23, 2003, 12:11 AM
They won't do this with the iBooks. Lets be realistic.......they still have Powerbooks to sell right now. Maybe in late 2004, but by that time, I don't think a dual 1.3GHz G3 is good enough. How much of an advantage will a dual 1.3GHz G3 give me over a single G3 if all consumers are using OfficeX, Safari, and email? They wouldn't exactly take full advantage of the dual procs, or would they?

true777
Sep 23, 2003, 01:20 AM
I've always believed the only thing that's holding the iBook back is the speed of the Powerbooks. Even if it was doable technically, Apple obviously couldn't offer 1.3 Ghz iBooks when the PBs top out at 1.33. Once the PBs go G5, there'll be room for the iBook to make a glorious comeback. Just another way Moto is hurting Apple.

macphoria
Sep 23, 2003, 01:36 AM
I've always believed the only thing that's holding the iBook back is the speed of the Powerbooks. Even if it was doable technically, Apple obviously couldn't offer 1.3 Ghz iBooks when the PBs top out at 1.33. Once the PBs go G5, there'll be room for the iBook to make a glorious comeback. Just another way Moto is hurting Apple.
I thought this was the case also. Now that lowend PowerBook is 1GHz G4, we can expect iBook to go 1GHz G3. And by the time G5 PowerBook comes out, probably around 1.6-1.8 GHz, then we can expect iBook with G4 around 1.25-1.33 GHz? But will this be Motorola's G4? Or maybe IBM's G4? 750vx?!

AngryAngel
Sep 23, 2003, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by lmalave
Well, I'll be damned. If you zoom in on the picture of the board, it clearly shows the board having one IBM CPU with an empty slot for another IBM CPU.

I think the second processor is on the other side of the board (in the spot where you saw the space for it).

MacsRgr8
Sep 23, 2003, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by macphoria
I thought this was the case also. Now that lowend PowerBook is 1GHz G4, we can expect iBook to go 1GHz G3. And by the time G5 PowerBook comes out, probably around 1.6-1.8 GHz, then we can expect iBook with G4 around 1.25-1.33 GHz? But will this be Motorola's G4? Or maybe IBM's G4? 750vx?!

Yeah. The iBook should be seeing 1GHz G3s very quickly now.
Leaving the eMac as the only sub-1Ghz Macintosh.
Wonder why the eMac isn't a G3...?

lmalave
Sep 23, 2003, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by MacsRgr8
Yeah. The iBook should be seeing 1GHz G3s very quickly now.
Leaving the eMac as the only sub-1Ghz Macintosh.
Wonder why the eMac isn't a G3...?

Well, the eMac can be configured with a SuperDrive, and DVD burning is already a very slow operation, and would be intolerably slow without Altivec. I think from a marketing standpoint it's fine if the iBook has faster clock speeds than the eMac, though, since both are marketed as entry-level machines. The only problem is when the "consumer" machines have the same clockspeed as the "pro" machines.

On a separate note, they should've totally kept the 15" G3 iMac and bumped the price down to $700 or even $600. Jaguar runs fine on my iBook so it would definitely run fine on an 800MHz G3 iMac. From a marketing standpoint they could've rebranded it as an eMac and even given it an opaque white case instead of the transluscent graphite case it had when it was retired. They could've just marketed it as something like an eMac Junior. I think it would've been a winner, especially in the education market.

Plutoniq
Sep 23, 2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by lmalave
Well, the eMac can be configured with a SuperDrive, and DVD burning is already a very slow operation, and would be intolerably slow without Altivec. I think from a marketing standpoint it's fine if the iBook has faster clock speeds than the eMac, though, since both are marketed as entry-level machines. The only problem is when the "consumer" machines have the same clockspeed as the "pro" machines.

It's ridiculous to say that DVD burning on a Mac has anything at all to do with Altivec. I've installed a DVD-R/RW into the expansion nay of my 500mhz G3 Pismo and have been happily burning DVD's for months.

Now, if your talking about creating DVD movies, then yes, Altivec is important for rendering and compression/conversion stuff.....speeds up a lot, but not the actual "burning" to the DVD-media.

Ibooks will get the fastest 750GX available at time of production (most probably 1.1ghz). I think there is enough of a difference between the Powerbooks & Ibooks to make the distiction, without having to hold back the Ibooks CPU speed. The Powerbooks will have all this still over the Ibooks;

-Greater RAM capacity & DDR (2GB)
-Faster system bus (167mhz)
-Better Video Card w/ more RAM
-Firewire 800 & USB 2.0
-DVI Output
-Cardbus PCMCIA Slot
-2X Superdrive
-Altivec
-Faster HD's

So, why would Apple worry about having a G3 Ibook with a 100mhz CPU speed over the Low-end 1ghz Powerbooks? There's more to a portable than just the CPU, I think most portable buyers look at the the "whole" when considering a purchase.

p'z

DakotaGuy
Sep 23, 2003, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by MacsRgr8
Yeah. The iBook should be seeing 1GHz G3s very quickly now.
Leaving the eMac as the only sub-1Ghz Macintosh.
Wonder why the eMac isn't a G3...?

My guess is the eMac line will move to the same 1Ghz, 1.25Ghz speed that the iMac has now very soon. They might not add the DDR or the faster bus however. So if they also get the iBook at a 1Ghz and 1.1Ghz level with the new G3's that will mean that every Mac has finally broke the Ghz barrier...long time coming, but better late then never!

MacsRgr8
Sep 24, 2003, 01:33 AM
My guess too.

True also about the G4 being in an eMac: the SuperDrive. Apple wants people to use iDVD for creating their own movies if Apple build a SuperDrive in their Macs. So an altivec unit will be required.
So sometime before X-mas 2003 Apple will finallly have their full product line < 1 GHz.
It is somekind of "magical" number.....
.... aka the GHz-Truth :D

macphoria
Sep 24, 2003, 02:26 AM
So sometime before X-mas 2003 Apple will finallly have their full product line < 1 GHz.
It is somekind of "magical" number.....
It's been a long journey. I'm just glad they made it. FINALLY.