Dell Secrets

[G4scott]

I don't want this to sound bad, and in no way do I mean for it to show hatred towards anyone. I just want to make a point of something.

I talked with a friend who knows somebody who works for Dell, and he said that Dell tells it's employees to keep it on the down low that Michael Dell is Jewish, so they don't hurt sales in anti-Jewish countries.

I just thought it was odd that they would try to hide something like that, but I guess when it means more sells, it could be worth it...

I just thought it was interesting.

[iJon]

if he wanted to keep it on the down low he wouldnt tell his employees at all. which would prevent people from telling, kind of like what you are doing. just doesnt make much sense. dell is a big company, im sure not everyone could keep it a secret, and apparently not everyone did.

iJon

[MrMacMan]

Ech...

Lose Sails in anti-Jewish Countries.

Well Aren't most of them on the 'You can't export to these countries' list?

:confused:

He does look a little jewish, but not too much... hmm.


Apple has their own secrects too...

edit: Its an open Secrect.

Like DeCSS... :p

[Stelliform]

....

[scem0]

I can't blame him.

People hide things all the time because they would get persecuted for their beliefs. The immaturity of people forces them to. I can attest to this.

scem0

[Abstract]

Yes, shoot high. Hit her bf in the head!!

Wait, does that mean I'm not allowed to use a Dell after sundown on a Friday? Are all Dell's made kosher and blessed by a rabbi?

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by Abstract
Yes, shoot high. Hit her bf in the head!!

Wait, does that mean I'm not allowed to use a Dell after sundown on a Friday? Are all Dell's made kosher and blessed by a rabbi?

Wow, unless you forgot an *wink* at the end of that, I find the extremely offensive.

[Abstract]

I was just being sarcastic. I generally don't think a *wink* is implied if its extremely off the wall....

[MacAztec]

Originally posted by Abstract
Yes, shoot high. Hit her bf in the head!!

Wait, does that mean I'm not allowed to use a Dell after sundown on a Friday? Are all Dell's made kosher and blessed by a rabbi?

Hahahahaha, well put.

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by Stelliform
I still don't understand why it would matter. Is there that much anti-Semitism in some countries?

no offense, truely, but do you pay attention to the world?

anti-sematism has for a while been an "influencing factor" in american business decisions. just like the jewish themselves have, supposedly. The cola wars (http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/israel.asp) provided excellent breeding ground for these accusations. likely, this dell rumor is not factual, based on the sheer number of times it's been falsely alleged in the past (on both sides). personally, i think that since we have much closer business connections with Israel, anti-sematism isn't as much of a problem as, say, anti-palestine influences. but that's why i don't generally discuss the israel/palestine war.

pnw

[Abstract]

All jewish people in my neighbourhood (I live in a 95% jewish neighbourhood) will tell you that its somewhat of a factor, but truth be told, I can't even tell they're jewish until they mention it.

[tazo]

Originally posted by Stelliform
I still don't understand why it would matter. Is there that much anti-Semitism in some countries?

I spit out my pepsi when I read this...*wipes dual monitors*

Yes there is much anti-semitism in the world. Take for example any country that is not friends with Israel.....

[Rower_CPU]

So, then any country not friends with the US is anti-christian because that's the predominant faith here?

[e-coli]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
So, then any country not friends with the US is anti-christian because that's the predominant faith here?

No. Christian is not a race of people, it is a belief system. "Jewish", or Judaism just happens to be both a lineage, and a belief system. Because of this, I think it becomes all too easy to misconstrue ones beliefs about the politics and actions of the Jews, and call it anti-Semitism.

[ColoJohnBoy]

That seems rather silly. If such persuasions affected sales, Rush "I'm-Getting-What-I-Deserve-By-Going-Blind" Limbaugh wouldn't own an Apple. Neither would our own Tazo, or any number of other conservatives/Republicans.

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
So, then any country not friends with the US is anti-christian because that's the predominant faith here?
The US and the west have been described as 'The Crusaders' (referring to to medieval crusades) in reference to Afganistan and Iraq. Those countries that don't like the US probably don't do it for religious reasons - at least not the political leaders. They do it because they don't like other things about the US - like it's foreign policy. The leaders in those countries just use religious metaphors to stir up the populace

[Stelliform]

....

[amin]

Originally posted by tazo
I spit out my pepsi when I read this...*wipes dual monitors*

Yes there is much anti-semitism in the world. Take for example any country that is not friends with Israel.....

Not everyone who opposes Israeli policy or even the creation of Israel as we know it is anti-semitic. Conversely, even countries that support Israel (such as the United States) house far too much anti-semitism.

[Rower_CPU]

I think everyone is misconstruing my point here.

It is just as ridiculous to say that all countries who don't like Israel are anti-semitic as it is to say that all countries who don't like the US are anti-christian.

[kettle]

shouldn't this thread be here -

http://forums.macrumors.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=47

[raschild]

Originally posted by Stelliform
I still don't understand why it would matter. Is there that much anti-Semitism in some countries?

In a word, yes. Look at the Middle East. 90% of the problems there are caused by or related to anti-Semitism. But, as was mentioned earlier, some of those countries are on the "do not export to" list.

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by Stelliform
I still don't understand why it would matter. Is there that much anti-Semitism in some countries?

You'd be surprised. Anti-semitism is on the upswing in western Europe, and in France in particular. Neo-nazis are a force to be reckoned with in Germany, and in Russia -- well, let's just call it an age-old tradition. The US is hardly immune, either -- some of the nastiest neo-nazi groups in the world call America home. Less so in the Middle East, I think, were the conflict is more about the politics of territory, history and economic power then it is about religion.

[Sun Baked]

Could be worse...

The CEO could be getting hints on running the company from a cow.

Of course, since THAT company fired the cow they're trying to remake themselves into a consumer electronics shop.

I think they should have fired the CEO and promoted the cow.

[Macco]

But... but... Dell can't be Jewish. He's evil...

[scem0]

Originally posted by Macco
But... but... Dell can't be Jewish. He's evil...

He's actually a very cool guy.

I met him (his daughter went to my private school).

scem0

[Inu]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
I think everyone is misconstruing my point here.

It is just as ridiculous to say that all countries who don't like Israel are anti-semitic as it is to say that all countries who don't like the US are anti-christian.

That said, its funny how people (in europe at least) get called anti semitic for critizing Israels policy of self defending-by-oppression-and-state-commanded-Terrorism. Exactly for sentences like that.

One fun encounter was when one of my colleagues in school (its been a while) told me that he was, actually jewish. Must be because i disagreed with him on a political argument, perhaps even about israel itself. My answer was: "Should i care?"

[groovebuster]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
It is just as ridiculous to say that all countries who don't like Israel are anti-semitic as it is to say that all countries who don't like the US are anti-christian.

Well, then come to Germany for a while and make a statement like that (against Israles policy) in public... you'll be labeled anti-semitic or even a Neo-Nazi before you ended your sentence...

groovebuster

[groovebuster]

Originally posted by e-coli
No. Christian is not a race of people, it is a belief system. "Jewish", or Judaism just happens to be both a lineage, and a belief system.

Sorry, but that's BS... would be new to me that all the Jews in Europe had/have direct ancestors in the middle-east. Most of them are just as european looking as the rest of the crowd. The "original" jews just looked exactly like the rest of the people living in that region around the mediterrenean sea. And that is what the term race is about... phenotypes!

groovebuster

[Inu]

I didnt know you could _JOIN_ the Jews, and become one.

If you cant, there, its lineage. If you can, well... it isnt. As for them looking like everyone else, no one said a man/woman couldnt marry a jew and give over her genes. I doubt there is a law that you have to raise your kids jewish if you do, but it might be rather common.

[Zaid]

Originally posted by tazo
I spit out my pepsi when I read this...*wipes dual monitors*

Yes there is much anti-semitism in the world. Take for example any country that is not friends with Israel.....

So are Jews who are anti-Israel ( and I know they exist because I know a number of Jews in this category) also anti-semetic?

Being anti-Israel != being anti-semetic. There may well be people with anti-Israeli views who are anti-semetic, conversly I'm quite sure there are anti-semites who are pro-Israel (along the lines of if they have their own country, they should all go and live there ...)

The anti-Israel=anti-semtic link seems disingenuous. It is nothing more than a smear tactic against people whith whom the pro-Israel camp disagrees.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by groovebuster
Well, then come to Germany for a while and make a statement like that (against Israles policy) in public... you'll be labeled anti-semitic or even a Neo-Nazi before you ended your sentence...

groovebuster

And it would still be just as ridiculous there as it is here. ;)

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by Inu
I didnt know you could _JOIN_ the Jews, and become one.

Judaism is a religion. People can and do adopt it through conversion. Ethnic Judaism really doesn't exist, except perhaps in Mein Kamph.

Speaking of Germany, a German has to admit that anti-semitism is a special case in their country. If the nation's history had been different, it would be possible to discuss policy towards Israel there without it being such a loaded issue.

[Inu]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly

Speaking of Germany, a German has to admit that anti-semitism is a special case in their country. If the nation's history had been different, it would be possible to discuss policy towards Israel there without it being such a loaded issue.

I do not agree there. Whatever a Country's History is, current political debates shouldnt be stunted by it.

The ironic part is, that everytime a german politician says something against the State of Israel or Israel's Politics, he gets practically stoned to (political) death by the Jewish council in Germany. While this might "help" Israel in short term (by basically kill every politic active critic in Germany) it does hurt the jews in Germany by fueling racistic hatred against them.

The same way american people dislike to hear their forefathers commited genocide on the natives of america, the germans dislike to hear the same about their parents/grandparents who commited tremendous crimes against the jews.

Didnt know you could convert to Judaism. Not that it is an option for me...

[IJ Reilly]

I sympathize with younger Germans, but Germany may have to put another generation between itself and the Holocaust before they can normalize on this issue. Given the magnitude of the historical events, this should hardly be surprising. Germany is still accepting a self-imposed penance for previous misdeeds -- which may be frustrating to the current generation of Germans, but it certainly beats the attitude adopted by Japan, which is kind of denial.

I surprised that you didn't realize that Judaism is a religion, not a race.

[Inu]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly

I surprised that you didn't realize that Judaism is a religion, not a race.

Well, if you say (or do) anything negative about jewish people (or Isreal, for that matter) you get called a racist, not religious zealot. Maybe it derives from there.

I do still not get the point why everyone in the world should be able to like jews and dislike Israel, but germans (and swiss, to some extent) people are not allowed to view it that way. It just makes no sense at all.

Lets not forget if anyone was 18 at the day of deafeat 1945, he is 76 now. The War Criminals of then started to die off long ago...

[IJ Reilly]

It's a bit difficult to discuss the meaning of words where two different languages are involved, but the specific name for bigotry directed against Jews is anti-semitism (not "racism"). It's not a term that should be invoked when someone criticizes Israel's government, but it might be an appropriate word to describe a negative characterization Jews as a group.

The Holocaust is a stain on the German national character, just as slavery is a stain on the American national character. We just have to learn to live with this history, even though we weren't personally responsible for it, and even if the people who were responsible are long gone.

[groovebuster]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
The Holocaust is a stain on the German national character, just as slavery is a stain on the American national character. We just have to learn to live with this history, even though we weren't personally responsible for it, and even if the people who were responsible are long gone.

And what exactly do you mean by "living with it"? I think that's exactly the problem here... nobody can really draw the line between what is still "living with it" and what is just too much to be acceptable given todays situation.

I as a german know about the history of my country and it sure is important that the past shouldn't be forgotten. But to rub it in again and again and to branded by definition as a potential nazi and anti-semitist for generations is just wrong. Let's face it, today the jewish community is getting a lot of advantage from history in Germany and they are in the same boat as I am. The holocaust is something we all know just from history books, except some already pretty old people. Especially because of Germany's history the country has an obligation to prevent genocides in other parts of the world and it did a pretty well job so far. The german society is one of the most open-minded and multicultural ones in the world. Racism for example is a much bigger problem in the US for example than it is here. But then having no say when Israel does exactly the same to the palestineans what happened to the jews for centuries is rediculous.

This is not about stains of others... it's about wanting a free ticket for any actions by bringing up history again and again.

groovebuster

[K4NN4B15]

Originally posted by tazo
Yes there is much anti-semitism in the world. Take for example any country that is not friends with Israel..... [/B]

what a load of crap...

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
I surprised that you didn't realize that Judaism is a religion, not a race.

IJ, it is both a religion and an ethnicity. Of course, it is not quite that simple. There are different traditions within the religion and there are different cultures that identify themselves as jewish not only as a religious group, but also as a people. As in any religion one can, of course, convert to Judaism, and as in any culture one can immigrate and adopt a new culture. So, while I would agree the term "race" is not appropriate, there is much more to being Jewish than a religious conversion.

I think criticism of Israel over the occupation and it's apartheid like policies toward Palestinians is certainly valid. It doesn't mean that those of us making those criticisms should not take special pains to be aware of anti-semitism that can and often does seep into such statements. I'm afraid, I agree that even greater attention towards anti-semitism must be paid in the context of Germany. I don't think it does much good to make criticism from an ahistorical viewpoint. An understanding must come from all the history of the peoples of the region. That includes the Holocaust and the occupation.

I've got to say it is very wierd to get to this topic from the supposed jewish heritage of Michael Dell. More interesting to me than the impact of his religious beliefs and ethnicity on computer sales in some countries, is the reasons for spreading this rumor on the internet. Why is this viewed as some "dark" secret to be revealed? If it is true, so what, and maybe it is something he views as private.

[Ugg]

Originally posted by Sayhey
IJ, it is both a religion and an ethnicity. Of course, it is not quite that simple. There are different traditions within the religion and there are different cultures that identify themselves as jewish not only as a religious group, but also as a people. As in any religion one can, of course, convert to Judaism, and as in any culture one can immigrate and adopt a new culture. So, while I would agree the term "race" is not appropriate, there is much more to being Jewish than a religious conversion.

I'm afraid, I agree that even greater attention towards anti-semitism must be paid in the context of Germany. I don't think it does much good to make criticism from an ahistorical viewpoint. An understanding must come from all the history of the peoples of the region. That includes the Holocaust and the occupation.

I've got to say it is very wierd to get to this topic from the supposed jewish heritage of Michael Dell. More interesting to me than the impact of his religious beliefs and ethnicity on computer sales in some countries, is the reasons for spreading this rumor on the internet. Why is this viewed as some "dark" secret to be revealed? If it is true, so what, and maybe it is something he views as private.

Jews do have a stronger genetic link to their origins than do Christians, but it would be a grave error to consider them a separate genetic subset.

In regards to German anti-semitism, it was the culmination of centuries of European anti-semitism. France, Italy, England, Poland, Russia, etc, etc, have long histories of oppressing the Jews. To view what happened during Hitler's reign as solely a German instigated event does a grave injustice to history. It would also be fair to say that it is not only an European issue but also a Christian vs Judaism issue. To hold the Germans accountable for centuries of hatred ignores the reality.

There are many many people out there who still subscribe to the idea that the world is controlled by a Jewish cabal of business and political leaders. That belief has only been reinforced by the US' virtually unconditional support of Israel. Until the US backs down from its untenable position, and Israel starts acting like a responsible democratic society, rumors like this will only continue to spread.

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by Ugg
Jews do have a stronger genetic link to their origins than do Christians, but it would be a grave error to consider them a separate genetic subset.

In regards to German anti-semitism, it was the culmination of centuries of European anti-semitism. France, Italy, England, Poland, Russia, etc, etc, have long histories of oppressing the Jews. To view what happened during Hitler's reign as solely a German instigated event does a grave injustice to history. It would also be fair to say that it is not only an European issue but also a Christian vs Judaism issue. To hold the Germans accountable for centuries of hatred ignores the reality.

There are many many people out there who still subscribe to the idea that the world is controlled by a Jewish cabal of business and political leaders. That belief has only been reinforced by the US' virtually unconditional support of Israel. Until the US backs down from its untenable position, and Israel starts acting like a responsible democratic society, rumors like this will only continue to spread.

Ugg,
I never raised the question of genetics. The question of ethnicity is a cultural one not just who your parents are. The rest of your post I whole-heartly agree with. Did not mean to imply that anti-semitism was only a German problem.

[Inu]

I 100% agree to Groovebusters statement. Couldnt have said it better I think.

What has to be added to his and Ugg's Post, i am from switzerland, the german speaking part of it, maybe 30 miles away from germany. If you go down and dig the archives of the public library or go into the bunker museums dating from WW2 (we got a really nice one at "Heldsberg") it throws a not-history-book view at the time and the political playground at the time. The way i saw it, our region was almost assimilated as the war turned tits-up for the germans. Just in time, we really got lucky.

@Sayhey: sorry i played my part derailing the issue. It happens we should have made our own thread.

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by Inu
@Sayhey: sorry i played my part derailing the issue. It happens we should have made our own thread.

Didn't mean to "blame" anyone for hijacking a thread. It happens all the time and I've done it on more than one occasion. I just wanted to point out how strange these rumors are about Dell and the "urban legend" like quality of them over the internet says something about how we view Jewish idenity as a society.

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by groovebuster
And what exactly do you mean by "living with it"? I think that's exactly the problem here... nobody can really draw the line between what is still "living with it" and what is just too much to be acceptable given todays situation.

I don't claim to have any answers to this question. The same issues are present in the US with respect to slavery, and that event is even further back in American history then is the Holocaust in German history. Nevertheless, it still haunts our cultural and our politics. As a young German, you may think it is unjust to have the Holocaust as a constant uninvited guest to the debate, even distorting it sometimes. But what I'm trying to say is that it will always be there no matter what you personally think is reasonable, so you would do well to adjust your attitude to that reality.