Our Internet Rights...

[NavyIntel007]

An Idea occurred to me tonight. There is a group called the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). Why are they not protecting our rights when it comes to our privacy and free speech rights on the internet? Do they not care?

I'm proposing maybe people need to stand up to create a new organization:
The Internet Civil Liberties Organization (ICLO).

Why do we need this? We should ask the question, does the US constitution apply to the internet? Do we not have the same rights of privacy, freedom of speech, and right to assembly on the internet as we do in the real world?

Everyday it seems like big corperations and special interest groups are slowly taking away the internet from us. I hope that this stops for the sake of our future.

Anyone else have any thoughts? Or do I just need to get to bed?

[zimv20]

http://www.aclu.org/Privacy/PrivacyMain.cfm

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by zimv20
http://www.aclu.org/Privacy/PrivacyMain.cfm

Where were they when that little girl got sued for $2000?

[zimv20]

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Where were they when that little girl got sued for $2000?

i'm guessing that because it's accepted that sharing copyrighted music w/ others is a crime of the stealing variety -- and has precious little to do with civil liberties -- they had no interest in it.

that, and because their funding is completely donation-based, they can't take every case they'd like.

of course, they'd love it if you donated. i've already got my card.

[tazo]

Oh please

:rolleyes:

The ACLU is too busy defending any criminal minority to bother with a music-pirating tot.

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by tazo
Oh please

:rolleyes:

The ACLU is too busy defending any criminal minority to bother with a music-pirating tot.

tazo, could you be a little more specific?
Who are these criminal minorities they are defending that they shouldn't. Or are you just repeating a conservative stereotype of the ACLU?

[mactastic]

And try to explain it without using :rolleyes: please.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by tazo
Oh please

:rolleyes:

The ACLU is too busy defending any criminal minority to bother with a music-pirating tot.

you seem to have a lot of anger directed towards people you don't know

[Daveman Deluxe]

Originally posted by zimv20
i'm guessing that because it's accepted that sharing copyrighted music w/ others is a crime of the stealing variety -- and has precious little to do with civil liberties -- they had no interest in it.

It has a lot to do with civil liberties: companies are subpoenaing our identifying information without any sort of judicial oversight.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by Daveman Deluxe
It has a lot to do with civil liberties: companies are subpoenaing our identifying information without any sort of judicial oversight.

do you have a link?

the information-gathering angle is an interesting one. i'd like to read some details on your claim.

[Daveman Deluxe]

http://wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,60461,00.html

That's a link to a story about a bill introduced in the House requiring the RIAA to actually file a lawsuit to get a subpoena. It's an interesting read.

The DMCA currently allows companies to file a one-page subpoena which signed by a court clerk in order to get the personally identifying information of somebody suspected of copyright infringement.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by Daveman Deluxe
http://wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,60461,00.html

That's a link to a story about a bill introduced in the House requiring the RIAA to actually file a lawsuit to get a subpoena. It's an interesting read.

The DMCA currently allows companies to file a one-page subpoena which signed by a court clerk in order to get the personally identifying information of somebody suspected of copyright infringement.

good info -- i didn't know that. okay -- i'm on board w/ the ACLU looking at the matter.

regarding the 12 year old girl, i believe the family worked out a settlement. so the matter is closed. IF, however, the family decided to sue based on the DMCA, then i could see the ACLU getting involved. and they probably will, if they aren't already w/ some other case.

[Waluigi]

The ACLU is a great concept, but I dont know how focused they are on the goal of protecting civil rights anymore. I have heard a lot of great stories about how the ACLU has helped people in need, but I have also heard how they have helped corrupt organizations such as NAMBLA.

The ACLU can really do some good here though. I would love it if they fought to put the internet back in the hands of the people, because like them or not, they have a lot of legal power, and could make some serious head way on this issue, and other issues involving digital rights.

--Waluigi

[tazo]

Whenever I think about an organization, a term I use loosely, like the ACLU I am forced to use the rolling eyes emoticon...there is no way around it.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by tazo
Whenever I think about an organization, a term I use loosely, like the ACLU I am forced to use the rolling eyes emoticon...there is no way around it. the classic :rolleyes:: daily increasing the quality of discussion on macrumors.

:rolleyes:

[zimv20]

Originally posted by tazo
Whenever I think about an organization, a term I use loosely, like the ACLU I am forced to use the rolling eyes emoticon...there is no way around it.

i'm going to make a serious effort to start respecting your opinions. go to aclu.org, pick 3 of their position papers, and make an intelligent argument against their positions.

anything short, well, i'll just think of you as an underinformed dispenser of shrill rhetoric.

you up to the challenge?

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by zimv20
i'm going to make a serious effort to start respecting your opinions. go to aclu.org, pick 3 of their position papers, and make an intelligent argument against their positions.

anything short, well, i'll just think of you as an underinformed dispenser of shrill rhetoric.

you up to the challenge?

"You're the man now, dawg!"

~Sean Connery, Finding Forrester

[mcrain]

Originally posted by Waluigi
The ACLU is a great concept, but I dont know how focused they are on the goal of protecting civil rights anymore. I have heard a lot of great stories about how the ACLU has helped people in need, but I have also heard how they have helped corrupt organizations such as NAMBLA.

You may not like NAMBLA, but they have constitutional rights just like everyone else. The ACLU stands up for constitutional rights, not people or groups.

If NAMBLA can have its rights diminished, so can you or I. THAT IS THE DANGER that the ACLU works to protect us ALL from.

[Taft]

Originally posted by Waluigi
The ACLU is a great concept, but I dont know how focused they are on the goal of protecting civil rights anymore. I have heard a lot of great stories about how the ACLU has helped people in need, but I have also heard how they have helped corrupt organizations such as NAMBLA.


You have to qualify what you mean by "helped." Its not as if the ACLU is helping NAMBLA lure young boys to their organization. Its not even the case that the ACLU respects what NAMBLA stands for, or agrees with any of their positions.

The ACLU simply protects peoples' and groups' rights under the constitution of the United States of America. What they do is very important.

Most of us (hopefully all of us) agree that NAMBLA is bad. But does that mean they don't deserve the protections our constitution offers everyone else? Don't they deserve fair trials? Don't they deserve to have their rights of free speech, etc. protected?

Maybe you'd understand the importance of the ACLU a little better if you had ever been falsely accused of a crime. People treat criminals, ex-criminals, and those accused of crimes differently than the average person. It is very easy to say, "Put him away! He's a child molester!" even though the facts of the case aren't known. The ACLU simply gaurantees that the laws of our land are followed and everyone, even the despicable of our society, are protected by our laws.

Taft

[Zaid]

Originally posted by Taft
You have to qualify what you mean by "helped." Its not as if the ACLU is helping NAMBLA lure young boys to their organization. Its not even the case that the ACLU respects what NAMBLA stands for, or agrees with any of their positions.

The ACLU simply protects peoples' and groups' rights under the constitution of the United States of America. What they do is very important.

Most of us (hopefully all of us) agree that NAMBLA is bad. But does that mean they don't deserve the protections our constitution offers everyone else? Don't they deserve fair trials? Don't they deserve to have their rights of free speech, etc. protected?

Maybe you'd understand the importance of the ACLU a little better if you had ever been falsely accused of a crime. People treat criminals, ex-criminals, and those accused of crimes differently than the average person. It is very easy to say, "Put him away! He's a child molester!" even though the facts of the case aren't known. The ACLU simply gaurantees that the laws of our land are followed and everyone, even the despicable of our society, are protected by our laws.

Taft

I only ever thought that NAMBLA was a piece of South Park humour. I had no idea that anything like this actually existed. (in fact i didn't believe it until after a quick google)

You are absolutely right though Taft, regardless of how utterly distasteful and stomach churning their views may be, their rights under the law must be protected.

So as long as they do not advocate illeagal activities, they have the right to free speach. I on the other hand also have (and excersise) the right to ignore them!

[bousozoku]

I remember the news where the ACLU took an old woman to court because she placed an advertisement for a "handyman" to take care of the apartment building she owned.

Thanks, but I don't want them protecting me.

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by bousozoku
I remember the news where the ACLU took an old woman to court because she placed an advertisement for a "handyman" to take care of the apartment building she owned.

Thanks, but I don't want them protecting me.

It isn't clear to me why people expend so much effort trying to discredit the ACLU. They're a huge organization with chapters in nearly all (if not all) of the states. Sure, they've pursued some frivolous cases over the years, but on the whole they've dedicated themselves to principles all Americans should hold dear.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by tazo
Whenever I think about an organization, a term I use loosely, like the ACLU I am forced to use the rolling eyes emoticon...there is no way around it.

You know nothing.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by pseudobrit
You know nothing. he knows plenty, he just chooses to ignore it and construct it in alogical ways ;)

[Frohickey]

Originally posted by Taft
The ACLU simply protects peoples' and groups' rights under the constitution of the United States of America. What they do is very important.


Not all the rights under the Bill of Rights... the ACLU is severely lacking in protection of one of the BoR.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by Frohickey
Not all the rights under the Bill of Rights... the ACLU is severely lacking in protection of one of the BoR.

the right to bear arms? i think the NRA's got that one covered.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by zimv20
the right to bear arms? i think the NRA's got that one covered. we're allowed to have bear arms? i want some! where do i sign to get the bear arms?

[zimv20]

Originally posted by shadowfax
we're allowed to have bear arms? i want some! where do i sign to get the bear arms?

http://www.onearmedbear-vs.com/

[Frohickey]

Originally posted by zimv20
the right to bear arms? i think the NRA's got that one covered.

Maybe so, but remember, gun control started out as a racist laws in the newly freed Southern states. The term, Saturday Night Special, came from the era of black lynch mobs. You'd think that ACLU would be all over these types, if just for the horrible legacy.

[tazo]

Originally posted by shadowfax
he knows plenty, he just chooses to ignore it and construct it in alogical ways ;)

Originally posted by zimv20
?????

i'm not even sure who's supposed to insulted here

:D

[shadowfax]

jeez, get rid of that freaking 'tar! i just thought you were scem0 again! i almost responded like you were. bah!

not that i would have said anything different...

[zimv20]

Originally posted by shadowfax

not that i would have said anything different...

aaaaaaand scene

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by zimv20
aaaaaaand scene aw, did i forget my comic relief smileys? damn. ;)

[mcrain]

Originally posted by Frohickey
Maybe so, but remember, gun control started out as a racist laws in the newly freed Southern states. The term, Saturday Night Special, came from the era of black lynch mobs. You'd think that ACLU would be all over these types, if just for the horrible legacy.

Actually, I have no idea what your point it.

The KKK was labeled by the federal government as a terrorist organization, and in the very same year, the NRA was founded. It wasn't until much later that gun control laws came into being, and they are proposed by people who advocate ending racism and ending the circle of violence, but it is the gun nuts who thinks some anonymous black guy is going to break into their house and rape their women, who oppose the gun control laws.

Ok, I'm rambling, and have no idea what his point was, or what I'm trying to say. :confused: