Why is the black Macbook SO much more money?

[coffey7]

I noticed that different color dells or Sony laptops all cost the same even if you get red, white etc. Why is the black macbook so much more? Has this been figured out yet? I found it to only have a larger hard drive. Is the black plastic that much more expensive to make? I am not trying to be a smart ass I just want to know. If I upgrade a white macbook to 160gb it is still $125 more for the black macbook. Most IBM thinkpads are black and those are cheaper with the same processors and configurations. I think when they first came out it was only a 20 gb difference over a white macbook and it was a $200 difference.

[dewey decibel]

Most people make the mistake of thinking prices for products are based on things like parts, labor, advertising, etc. In some case maybe, but with larger companies they're mostly based on what the market will bare. Blackbooks get a premium price because they can. If the low end Macbooks were black and the high end was white it would be the same thing.


BTW, I originally wrote off the blackbook because off the price issue, but last week I was going to buy a refurb mid tier rev B Macbook for $950 when I saw they had the same revision blackbook for only $50 more which came with a bigger HD. So I've got a blackbook on the way for only a $50 upcharge...

[eman]

The difference between the black macbook and the white macbook is in the color (obviously) and the black macbooks have a larger HD, that's it. Buy the white macbook and do your own upgrade to a larger 2.5" SATA HD and you will have the same thing for a lot less. Some people just love the color black and that's fine.

[PCRanger]

It's probably just racism. Or something. :p

[maestro55]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3A109a Safari/419.3)

As it was pointed out the reason is because Apple can sell it for more money and people will buy. I personally like the white ones more and so I saved the money and webt white. I didn't need the bigger HD.

If you think black color is worth i then get it iif not then don't.

[coffey7]

I wanted to buy a black one this time since the white one I had kept on getting stains. I had the palm rest panel replaced once and then I had it happen again. My hands are not acidic at all. I guess I will wait for the next generation of slim silver macbook pros I keep hearing about. :eek:

[Dammit Cubs]

I wanted to buy a black one this time since the white one I had kept on getting stains. I had the palm rest panel replaced once and then I had it happen again. My hands are not acidic at all. I guess I will wait for the next generation of slim silver macbook pros I keep hearing about. :eek:

this is my bigger grief....white vs black.

I love the black one, but for 200 dollars more? I'll play more and get that 3 dollar magic sponge or something.

[ozziegn]

so do the white MacBooks really get dirty that easily?

[aethelbert]

It's more expensive for two reasons:
1. Because they can.
2. Because people will pay.

[dziewuliz]

And I'm pro-choice :rolleyes:

Following the same logic, Apple is/can be more expensive than the usual laptop (because they can, and because people will pay) :P

[kaiwai]

It's probably just racism. Or something. :p

I take my Mac like my men: Black :)

[VOGUEx]

i like my white macbook, just do an upgrade! unless you're worried you'll get your laptop dirrty.

[IDANNY]

The blackbooks, are for people who miss there pismo powerbooks to much, kinda of like getting a dog that looks like your dead dog. ; )

[iW00t]

Everyone knows the whitebooks are subsidized. Apple is making a loss selling those.

[djellison]

Everyone knows the whitebooks are subsidized. Apple is making a loss selling those.

Complete and utter nonsense. You can buy a similar spec PC laptop for <£500 which will have a near identical bill of parts AND be making a profit for Acer/Dell/whoever. Every Macbook makes a SIGNIFICANT profit - even the cheapest white one.

Doug

[Eraserhead]

^^ Though it won't have as good a battery, or magsafe, or the webcam, or a wide touchpad, or a Vista Ultimate beating OS, or iLife, or Bluetooth, or Optical Audio In/Out, or (probably) Gigabit Ethernet, or DVI, VGA and S-Video support (it'll probably just have VGA). It also won't be attractive to look at.

Also even though the build quality of the Macbook isn't great it'll probably still have worse build quality.

Also £500 laptops really don't make much money, the margins on them are razor thin.

[Sijmen]

I went for the € 399 version because I see no problem being with my ISP for another two years.

[Evangelion]

I noticed that different color dells or Sony laptops all cost the same even if you get red, white etc. Why is the black macbook so much more?

Because lots of people are willing to pay premium for black.

Is the black plastic that much more expensive to make?

No. It's just a question of what people are willing to pay.

[Jasonbot]

My brother got a blackbook from Japan, only because it cost the same as the bottom of the range whitebook in South Africa :O

[kaiwai]

^^ Though it won't have as good a battery, or magsafe, or the webcam, or a wide touchpad, or a Vista Ultimate beating OS, or iLife, or Bluetooth, or Optical Audio In/Out, or (probably) Gigabit Ethernet, or DVI, VGA and S-Video support (it'll probably just have VGA). It also won't be attractive to look at.

Also even though the build quality of the Macbook isn't great it'll probably still have worse build quality.

Also £500 laptops really don't make much money, the margins on them are razor thin.

Is't great? grab any PC laptop out there, and you'll find it flimsey. My two previous ones, Toshiba and HP being prime examples of laptops which need 'two hands' to pick up without worrying about that creeking sound actually problems going wrong.

[TheStu]

^^ Though it won't have as good a battery, or magsafe, or the webcam, or a wide touchpad, or a Vista Ultimate beating OS, or iLife, or Bluetooth, or Optical Audio In/Out, or (probably) Gigabit Ethernet, or DVI, VGA and S-Video support (it'll probably just have VGA). It also won't be attractive to look at.

Also even though the build quality of the Macbook isn't great it'll probably still have worse build quality.

Also £500 laptops really don't make much money, the margins on them are razor thin.

Now here is my question. Here in the States, £500 is about the cost of the base macbook already, so is most technology generally twice as expensive there as it is here? So a laptop that would cost $1000 here would cost you £1000 there? That is just ridiculous if true.

[sunfast]

It's more expensive for two reasons:
1. Because they can.
2. Because people will pay.

Exactly. As people will happily pay the extra, Apple will charge. Some people seem proud of having the "premium" version - even if it's only claim to luxury is an artificially inflated price!

[skyrider007]

Now here is my question. Here in the States, £500 is about the cost of the base macbook already, so is most technology generally twice as expensive there as it is here? So a laptop that would cost $1000 here would cost you £1000 there? That is just ridiculous if true.

It is true to a certain extent. Most American electronic goods sold in Europe (i.e. Apple and BOSE) are up to 50% more expensive than the U.S. base price. Just do a quick comparison on BOSE.com and BOSE.co.uk or Apple Store U.S. vs. U.K., you'll be surprised by the price difference.

[Cloudane]

LOL at Apple. Next time anyone says they don't rip people off, I'll have to point them to this thread (or their component upgrade pricing). It's a very clever idea, luring people to the high end products by putting more colours there, but it smacks of greed to me.

Now here is my question. Here in the States, £500 is about the cost of the base macbook already, so is most technology generally twice as expensive there as it is here? So a laptop that would cost $1000 here would cost you £1000 there? That is just ridiculous if true.

Normally yeah, though Apple aren't quite as bad as others when it comes to the $-£ conversion. This is one area where they're not so greedy.

The main issue is VAT, which adds 17.5% onto the price, but this is caused by our government. They don't want people just importing everything from the USA because it's cheaper, so they add on tax and import duty.

Most American manufacturers, however, like to take this little markup a bit further, and basically translate it as $1 = £1.

[Eraserhead]

Now here is my question. Here in the States, £500 is about the cost of the base macbook already, so is most technology generally twice as expensive there as it is here? So a laptop that would cost $1000 here would cost you £1000 there? That is just ridiculous if true.

No the Macbook starts at £699, but our prices include sales tax (VAT) which is 17.5%

Is't great? grab any PC laptop out there, and you'll find it flimsey. My two previous ones, Toshiba and HP being prime examples of laptops which need 'two hands' to pick up without worrying about that creeking sound actually problems going wrong.

Business PC Laptops will have higher quality than a Mac, but they are be better than Consumer PC's.

LOL at Apple. Next time anyone says they don't rip people off, I'll have to point them to this thread (or their component upgrade pricing). It's a very clever idea, luring people to the high end products by putting more colours there, but it smacks of greed to me.

I expect you think that Tiffany rips you off for jewellery, Porsche rip you off for cars and airlines rip you off for flying First Class :rolleyes:.

If you can afford that stuff its worth getting, its not a "rip off" you are getting something that looks better. I have only bought a white Macbook because I thought the premium wasn't worth it, but still its available for those who don't agree.

[abletts]

Buy two thousand dollars - that's about two pounds fifty pence at current exchange rates ;-)
Buy a cheap flight to a US destination (not NY as they are on to us now)
Fly over to the States buy as much Apple kit as you can.
Fly back, pay import duty if you have to, and Wallah!! You've still saved money.

[saltyzoo]

Definitely due to VAT (Vanity added Tax: A tax on those who will pay for a specific look with no additional functional value)

Are seats on the 50 yard line worth $100 more? You see the same game, sit in the same kind of seat, have the same concessions and toilet lines....

http://www.manwatch.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/4.jpg http://s7v1.scene7.com/is/image/JohnLewis/230405167?$product$

No functional difference between those two watches. (Actually the cheaper one has more functionality) Both are stainless steel. Both keep time to an accuracy you'll never have to worry about. Is one worth $300 more than the other? Depends who's buying.

[DoFoT9]

It's probably just racism. Or something. :p

computerism?? :rolleyes:


Buy two thousand dollars - that's about two pounds fifty pence at current exchange rates ;-)
Buy a cheap flight to a US destination (not NY as they are on to us now)
Fly over to the States buy as much Apple kit as you can.
Fly back, pay import duty if you have to, and Wallah!! You've still saved money.


how much cheaper exactly???

[Sijmen]

Are seats on the 50 yard line worth $100 more? You see the same game, sit in the same kind of seat, have the same concessions and toilet lines....

I agree with your post mostly, but this is a shaky example. You see the game much much better, and up close, in the more expensive seat.

And while I see what you're explaining, I still think it's lame that they do it.

edit: also, the number of seats are very limited. Not so much for the MacBook.

[saltyzoo]

I agree with your post mostly, but this is a shaky example. You see the game much much better, and up close, in the more expensive seat.

And while I see what you're explaining, I still think it's lame that they do it.

edit: also, the number of seats are very limited. Not so much for the MacBook.

But you get black man! Is your wife going to care if she's on the 50 yard line?

The point is that different people value different things. Apparently, people will pay extra for black.

[Sijmen]

But you get black man! Is your wife going to care if she's on the 50 yard line?

The point is that different people value different things. Apparently, people will pay extra for black.

Hah, yeah, I see. By the way, my partner for life doesn't have an iSight... :D:apple: j/k

[djellison]

^^ Though it won't have as good a battery,[QUOTE]

Yes it will.

[QUOTE] or magsafe,

That's a reasonable point - perhaps cost a dollar or two to make.

or the webcam,
Actually - laptops with webcams for £500 are available.

or a wide touchpad

Err...wooo?

, or a Vista Ultimate beating OS,

Actual cost to Apple in put OSX into a machine is negligable.

or iLife,
£55

or Bluetooth, or Optical Audio In/Out, or (probably) Gigabit Ethernet, or DVI, VGA and S-Video support (it'll probably just have VGA).

Not true. Then again - the PC laptop will almost certainly come with a DVD writer - something the £699 Macbook inexcusably does not. DVI, VGA and S-Video support will cost you £45 of extra dongles on a Macbook. Most PC laptops come with VGA or DVI as standard - and S-Video as standard as well.


It also won't be attractive to look at.

Judgement call. I've seen cheap PC laptops that look nice. Maybe it's plastic case won't start splitting like this Macbook's does. Maybe the trackpad button won't stick. Maybe the arrows keys will be responsive.

Also £500 laptops really don't make much money, the margins on them are razor thin.

£500 laptops make SOME money. The person who I was replying to said the Macbook makes a loss. Given that the cheapest Macbook worth buying is £829 - they are making a very BIG profit on every single one - fact.

Macbook's and Macbook Pro's are very expensive - they are 30-60%+ more expensive than equiv PC laptops. Don't try and defend it based on their design, their parts etc. They're expensive because Apple users are prepared to pay a premium for them. That's all. The shift to Intel was an excellent one - but what it's done is allow us to see that Apple are prepared to put a LARGE premium on every machine they make. Analogies about Ferrari simply don't hold true. A Ferrari is a more expensive thing to make. It's hand made, it's got expensive exotic components in it, it's got a massive performance advantage over something from Volvo. Ferrari's are more expensive that Volvo's because they are more expensive to make, and that makes them exclusive. Mac's are not more expensive to make, they are made more expensive artificially, and that makes them more exclusive, and that makes them 'sexy' from a marketting perspective.

I like my Macbook. I intend to buy an MBP in the spring. But I'm not going to try and say that a Macbook offers good value. I'm not going to pretend it's reasonably priced as a laptop. However - I am prepared to pay the significant premium so I can use OSX. Essentially, in the UK, with a Mac you pay VAT four times. Once for Gordon Brown, and three times to Apple so you can use OSX.

To suggest that they make a loss on Macbooks is the most idiotic and hilarious thing I've seen posted here. And given the usual nonsense that comes out of the mouths of Mac fans, that's saying something.

Doug

[diamond.g]

Everyone knows the whitebooks are subsidized. Apple is making a loss selling those.

Complete and utter nonsense. You can buy a similar spec PC laptop for <£500 which will have a near identical bill of parts AND be making a profit for Acer/Dell/whoever. Every Macbook makes a SIGNIFICANT profit - even the cheapest white one.

Doug

WHOOSH!!


Pretty sure that was sarcasm.

[Eraserhead]

^^ Though it won't have as good a battery,

Yes it will.

Cheap laptops don't come with a 3-3.5 hour battery when new, which the Macbook offers.


or a Vista Ultimate beating OS,

Actual cost to Apple in put OSX into a machine is negligable.

You realise that with software you spend a lot of money up front to make it and then make it back over time. The OS certainly "adds value" to the machine so it should be accounted for.


It also won't be attractive to look at.

Judgement call. I've seen cheap PC laptops that look nice. Maybe it's plastic case won't start splitting like this Macbook's does. Maybe the trackpad button won't stick. Maybe the arrows keys will be responsive.


If the Trackpad button/arrow keys don't work you have a bad Apple (forgive the pun) send it back. I meant attractiveness as the overall appearance of the thing and the vast majority of people think Macs are better looking than most other laptops.

[phungy]

It's more expensive for two reasons:
1. Because they can.
2. Because people will pay.

On the spot. if people have the money, they're willing to pay more for black.

[Cloudane]

No the Macbook starts at £699, but our prices include sales tax (VAT) which is 17.5%



Business PC Laptops will have higher quality than a Mac, but they are be better than Consumer PC's.



I expect you think that Tiffany rips you off for jewellery, Porsche rip you off for cars and airlines rip you off for flying First Class :rolleyes:.

If you can afford that stuff its worth getting, its not a "rip off" you are getting something that looks better. I have only bought a white Macbook because I thought the premium wasn't worth it, but still its available for those who don't agree.

Don't know about jewellery. Porsche you're getting a better car. First Class you're getting better seating etc. Those are added value.

Black Macbook you're getting a different colour... not necessarily a better colour (depends on opinion), just different. If it costs them no more to offer that, then IMO it's a rip off. Funny you say about first class though, it's basically Apple creating a class system within its products! Peasants had better be happy with white Macbooks and silver iPods :) If you want the status icon of a different colour, you better cough up!

A product isn't automatically "not a rip off" if the person buys it. It's still a rip off, and the person buying it becomes known as "a sucker". Especially anyone who does a BTO on a Mac and adds extra RAM.

[saltyzoo]

Funny you say about first class though, it's basically Apple creating a class system within its products! Peasants had better be happy with white Macbooks and silver iPods If you want the status icon of a different colour, you better cough up!

Where have you been for the last decade? That's been Apples sales approach for all their products.

[Cloudane]

Where have you been for the last decade? That's been Apples sales approach for all their products.

For the last decade? Well 6 years of it I was a PC user, and 4 years of it a Powerbook and iPod user with no real need to examine Apple's product line-up.

But yes, I've noticed now. I mean the iPod has always been a bit of a status/fashion accessory, but I hadn't realised they'd created a class system *within* the product line.

[Tshapi]

I recently placed an order via apple.com for the blackbook. your paying the extra money not to have to constantly worry about how clean your macbook is. white is extremely hard to upkeep. Black is much easier.

They both collect grease and fingerprints. but Black hides it a whole hell of a lot better than WHITE!:D

[sm0]

having owned both, i wouldnt say black hides the grease prints better.

infact the grease, prints and dust show are alot more evident with the blackbook.

white looks nice... for the first couple of weeks. until it turns a ratty, dirty looking yellow (ive seen a 2nd gen turn disgusting yellow...) which is very difficult to get rid of...

the blackbook just requires a wipe and good as black

blackbook = the piece.

imh2c

[Tshapi]

having owned both, i wouldnt say black hides the grease prints better.

infact the grease, prints and dust show are alot more evident with the blackbook.

white looks nice... for the first couple of weeks. until it turns a ratty, dirty looking yellow (ive seen a 2nd gen turn disgusting yellow...) which is very difficult to get rid of...

the blackbook just requires a wipe and good as black

blackbook = the piece.

imh2c

Whitebook the grease comes with dirt and grim.

Blackbook while it comes with this as well, the dirt part is less noticable on a black background.

[Evangelion]

The whole ting about the Blackbook reminds me of VW Phaeton in reverse for some reason. The Blackbook is a premium MacBook, the only difference is that it's black. And lots of people are willing to pay premium for the sake of getting te premium model, even though it's not functionally different from cheaper models.

With VW Phaeton it's 100% reverse. Phaeton is an astonishing car. Yet no-one buys it because "It's a Volkswagen that costs about as much as S-series Merc!". Um, so? What does the badge matter? What matters is what the car is like. And the Phaeton gives S-class and other a run for their money.

Oh how fickle the human mind is.... People pay more for computer for the sake of paying more, yet they are unwilling to pay for an excellent car because it has a wrong badge.

[QCassidy352]

I wanted to buy a black one this time since the white one I had kept on getting stains. I had the palm rest panel replaced once and then I had it happen again. My hands are not acidic at all. I guess I will wait for the next generation of slim silver macbook pros I keep hearing about. :eek:

this is my bigger grief....white vs black.

I love the black one, but for 200 dollars more? I'll play more and get that 3 dollar magic sponge or something.

The same thing keeps happening to me. And the stains do not come off with a magic sponge like they did on iBooks. So I finally broke down and got a marware protector. At least that can be cleaned if it gets dirty.

[PimpsMac]

Probably the same reason why they charge $850 to upgrade to 4GB of ram. They can. Sure I can buy the exact same ram, from the exact same manufacturer(samsung, micron)for $160, but not everyone knows that. An upgraded HD can also be upgraded yourself for cheaper.

Sure I could have a dell laptop that crushes the Macbooks specs for a lot cheaper, but who the hell wants a dell?

[PimpsMac]

The whole ting about the Blackbook reminds me of VW Phaeton in reverse for some reason. The Blackbook is a premium MacBook, the only difference is that it's black. And lots of people are willing to pay premium for the sake of getting te premium model, even though it's not functionally different from cheaper models.

With VW Phaeton it's 100% reverse. Phaeton is an astonishing car. Yet no-one buys it because "It's a Volkswagen that costs about as much as S-series Merc!". Um, so? What does the badge matter? What matters is what the car is like. And the Phaeton gives S-class and other a run for their money.

Oh how fickle the human mind is.... People pay more for computer for the sake of paying more, yet they are unwilling to pay for an excellent car because it has a wrong badge.


Um, the macbooks all have the same badge. APPLE.

Black Macbook is


40GB more HD space for $200 more. Last time I checked, 40GB of space wasn't worth $200. In fact, I'm pretty sure you can get around 750GB of space for around $200 on a desktop. So um, yeah, just get the cheaper one, and spend the extra $200 on something 19x bigger than a 40GB HD.

[diamond.g]

Um, the macbooks all have the same badge. APPLE.

Black Macbook is


40GB more HD space for $200 more. Last time I checked, 40GB of space wasn't worth $200. In fact, I'm pretty sure you can get around 750GB of space for around $200 on a desktop. So um, yeah, just get the cheaper one, and spend the extra $200 on something 19x bigger than a 40GB HD.

Find me a 750 GiB HD that will fit in a macbook for less than $200...

[xsedrinam]

Because the black is cool.

[PimpsMac]

Find me a 750 GiB HD that will fit in a macbook for less than $200...

Oops, meant to say external 750GB HD.

[Matek]

Yeah, you pay for the prestige. People buy expensive cars, watches and other things, because they are a symbol of your importance/position in the society. Companies, lucky enough to produce these specific products (like Rolex or Porsche), earn loads of money by doing this without much trouble and as this is a very good way to make money, apple is trying to do it too. After all, we have to be honest - their products are surely one of the most prestigious among computer hardware.

Normally yeah, though Apple aren't quite as bad as others when it comes to the $-£ conversion. This is one area where they're not so greedy.

The main issue is VAT, which adds 17.5% onto the price, but this is caused by our government. They don't want people just importing everything from the USA because it's cheaper, so they add on tax and import duty.

Most American manufacturers, however, like to take this little markup a bit further, and basically translate it as $1 = £1.
Hmm, I come from Europe and i have to disagree with most of the things you said there :). I don't think Apple are a bright example for this conversion. I haven't heard of any companies that would do a direct USD -> GBP conversion, after all - one pound is more than two dollars. I don't think customers would tolerate such a ripoff. Right now, Apple is converting their prices USD -> EUR, which is still pretty bad, because 1 euro is 1.5 dollars.

It's true that VAT is part of this, but it accounts for less than half the price difference, the other part is still just extra profit for Apple.

I think you got the VAT concept wrong though, they don't charge us just so that we wouldn't import cheap stuff, it's a general tax that has to be paid for nearly everything you buy. It's just a different concept of taxation, over here countries often provide public health insurance, pensions and similar things, all covered by a much higher tax, while in the USA you get most of your own money and have to take care of mentioned things by yourself. Both have pros and cons, don't want to argue, just trying to point out VAT isn't here to prevent import. ;)