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MacRumors
Nov 26, 2007, 11:43 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Fortune interviews (http://bigtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2007/11/25/a-chat-with-apples-ipod-and-iphone-marketing-czar/) Apple's Vice President of Hardware Product Marketing, Greg Joswiak, about the iPod and the iPhone.

The article covers Apple's marketing and research focus over the years, and does reiterate that Apple will likely be using a digital-signature approach to the upcoming iPhone software developer kit.
One of the things Steve talked about in his open letter is something Nokia's doing, which is requiring a digital signature. That way if there's something wrong with an application, you have a way to track it back to where it came from.
Joswiak also claims that one of the main advantages Apple has over their competitors is looking ahead to the future:
Our competitors tend to put the cross hairs on where we are now, and by the time they come up with a product that tries to match where we are now, we’re beyond them. We’re one or two generations beyond, moving faster than they are.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/26/greg-joswiak-on-the-iphone-sdk-ipod/)



luke-j-s
Nov 26, 2007, 11:47 AM
This sounds great.. one or even TWO generations ahead. Oooh i cant wait :apple:

MadDog31
Nov 26, 2007, 11:47 AM
Very good read...and he's right, the others aim to match now, Apple's already miles ahead. I still find it amazing how they can do that over and over...it's the reason why I'm switching over next year from Windows...I'm tired of the same old crap.

plumbingandtech
Nov 26, 2007, 11:55 AM
Our competitors tend to put the cross hairs on where we are now, and by the time they come up with a product that tries to match where we are now, we’re beyond them. We’re one or two generations beyond, moving faster than they are.

Yep. And when android ships, they need to get all 30 cooks in the kitchen to start working on the next rev of it.

That'll be fun, and fragmented IF they do not require the same specs on every phone.

Tymmz
Nov 26, 2007, 12:02 PM
I really need to see one major "useful" update before I start believing in Apple's words. Wifi store, good, but what else beside bug-fixes?

MarkMS
Nov 26, 2007, 12:03 PM
I just want to be able to shoot video. Plain and simple.

Besides that, I'm still happy with my purchase of the iPhone.

MattJessop
Nov 26, 2007, 12:05 PM
It'll be very interesting to see what 'one or two generations ahead' is?

I mean, I'm guessing tying GPS into contacts would be a good idea? - Want to find somebody? Just send them a text message w/ GPS signal link, so they can just google map to you? Or you could just find a friend the same way.

Or maybe they actually just mean that the iPhone Safari will be snappier.

theheadguy
Nov 26, 2007, 12:08 PM
I really need to see one major "useful" update before I start believing in Apple's words. Wifi store, good, but what else beside bug-fixes?
Agreed. Additionally, none of this comes off as impressive. The iPod still does not have a native FM transmitter. Lame. Regarding planning one or two generations ahead, yippee. While everyone jumps for joy at the thought of that, I'll celebrate in 4 years when the work comes to fruitition. Lastly, while people take aim at how I am not precise with the "4 years", calm yourselves... My point is it's frustrating to see such long pauses between advancement. While Apple's VP of hardware takes aim at Nokia and other's, it's not like they haven't done a lot of their own R&D, and rather quickly. They pump out new models very quickly, and some of them are very good. While Apple's R&D process obviously has it's strong points, it is in my opinion, deeply flawed timewise.

Stella
Nov 26, 2007, 12:09 PM
As long as Apple don't charge for the signing then this is a good approach.

Symbian are moving to having all its applications signed ( though not mandatory ). The digital signing dictates what APIs the application can access, for security purposes.

donlphi
Nov 26, 2007, 12:09 PM
I really need to see one major "useful" update before I start believing in Apple's words. Wifi store, good, but what else beside bug-fixes?
AGREED! This is ridiculous. I took off all of my hacks, refreshed my iPhone to factory settings, anticipating SOMETHING, ANYTHING worthwhile, but I feel like they have really dropped the ball when it comes to developing stuff for this device. It is starting to feel like APPLE-TV. They updated the YOUTUBE and they were done.

I have a hunch 1st generation iPhone purchasers are going to get screwed one more time. The 2nd generation phone will be released before we see any major updates.

Bummer... :rolleyes:

twoboxen
Nov 26, 2007, 12:15 PM
It's true... when the iPhone gets 3G everyone else will still be on 1G.

Android already has several steps up on Apple.
1. Customer choice -- Same software, you choose what features you want in a device
2. Customer choice x2 -- Choose the provider that works best for YOU, the consumer.
3. Open, no need to hack it to make it work.

Fortunately, if you don't like the way android is going, feel free to make it your own branch (at risk of breaking compatibility with other 3rd party software, of course)

I think the iPhone is cute, has nifty visual effects that many users love, and will continue to be good for those users. Me, however, I'll wait for the Android deviceS arriving throughout 2008.

shawnce
Nov 26, 2007, 12:16 PM
AGREED! This is ridiculous. I took off all of my hacks, refreshed my iPhone to factory settings, anticipating SOMETHING, ANYTHING worthwhile, but I feel like they have really dropped the ball when it comes to developing stuff for this device. It is starting to feel like APPLE-TV. They updated the YOUTUBE and they were done.

...they added iTunes WIFI store and various other requested features to existing iPhone applications.

Anyway Apple has been obviously focusing on building out the international support for the iPhone. That work has mostly finished now so expect more focus on expanding features (primarily around the time of the 3rd party SDK).

The iPhone is a VERY young device, some folks appear to have way to high expectations for feature roll out given all of the build out for the international market and real world customer feedback that Apple is processing.

fishballer
Nov 26, 2007, 12:17 PM
3rd party apps?

geez. i'm still hoping to surf and play music for more than 5 secs without crashing. :(

k2director
Nov 26, 2007, 12:22 PM
Well, Greg, when it comes to a To Do application for the iPhone, you're not exactly one or two generations ahead, are you?

5 months and counting...

Roy Hobbs
Nov 26, 2007, 12:28 PM
Agreed. Additionally, none of this comes off as impressive. The iPod still does not have a native FM transmitter. Lame. Regarding planning one or two generations ahead, yippee. While everyone jumps for joy at the thought of that, I'll celebrate in 4 years when the work comes to fruitition. Lastly, while people take aim at how I am not precise with the "4 years", calm yourselves... My point is it's frustrating to see such long pauses between advancement. While Apple's VP of hardware takes aim at Nokia and other's, it's not like they haven't done a lot of their own R&D, and rather quickly. They pump out new models very quickly, and some of them are very good. While Apple's R&D process obviously has it's strong points, it is in my opinion, deeply flawed timewise.

FM transmitter, are you serious???
The iPod and iPhone may be lacking but an FM transmitter if the last of their worries.

viennese
Nov 26, 2007, 12:30 PM
Very good read...and he's right, the others aim to match now, Apple's already miles ahead. I still find it amazing how they can do that over and over...it's the reason why I'm switching over next year from Windows...I'm tired of the same old crap.

Well, I have already switched to Apple since 1985. They were the front runner then and still are.

crackermac
Nov 26, 2007, 12:31 PM
Android already has several steps up on Apple.
1. Customer choice -- Same software, you choose what features you want in a device
2. Customer choice x2 -- Choose the provider that works best for YOU, the consumer.
3. Open, no need to hack it to make it work.

Fortunately, if you don't like the way android is going, feel free to make it your own branch (at risk of breaking compatibility with other 3rd party software, of course)

I think the iPhone is cute, has nifty visual effects that many users love, and will continue to be good for those users. Me, however, I'll wait for the Android deviceS arriving throughout 2008.

Doubtful it will stay open. Google already said they were expecting companies to lock down the OS and put their own flavor or spin on it. It'll still be up to the carrier to manage. Look at Symbian, "The open mobile operating system." It's just another OS that developers have to write applications on. Android = lame, but only because it won't stay open. Carriers are greedy and want to nickel & dime you.

Stampyhead
Nov 26, 2007, 12:32 PM
The iPod still does not have a native FM transmitter. Lame.

I think it's progressive that the device does NOT have an FM transmitter. What a total, pointless waste of space. I got an iPod so I wouldn't have to listen to the radio anymore...

chr1s60
Nov 26, 2007, 12:33 PM
I really need to see one major "useful" update before I start believing in Apple's words. Wifi store, good, but what else beside bug-fixes?

I feel the same way. I am currently very happy with my iPhone, but I continue to hear about the great things Apple has for the iPhone and I am yet to see them. I don't need some enormous update that completely changes the phone, I would simply like one or two new features that improve the phone. Something simple like copy/past or the addition of MMS would be enough to give me faith is what Apple is developing for iPhone.

psychofreak
Nov 26, 2007, 12:34 PM
I think it's progressive that the device does NOT have an FM transmitter. What a total, pointless waste of space. I got an iPod so I wouldn't have to listen to the radio anymore...
You may be in the majority, but a significant minority of people want radio, and it would hardly cost Apple anything to put one in...

AgingGeek
Nov 26, 2007, 12:38 PM
Joswiak also claims that one of the main advantages Apple has over their competitors is looking ahead to the future:


"Always to the future he is looking. Never is his mind on WHERE he is now, WHAT he is doing..." - Yoda (Paraphrase)

crackermac
Nov 26, 2007, 12:40 PM
You may be in the majority, but a significant minority of people want radio, and it would hardly cost Apple anything to put one in...

What the heck is that? Oxymoron?

I'm glad there is no FM transmitter or radio. Cost most likely isn't an issue. It's space and the fact that the significant majority don't want it. :)

Popeye206
Nov 26, 2007, 12:43 PM
I have a hunch 1st generation iPhone purchasers are going to get screwed one more time. The 2nd generation phone will be released before we see any major updates.

I think you're wrong here. I do think Apple stay's ahead of the game much further than it seems most of the time. Development of these sort of things take time and think about it... we just heard of the iPhone less than a year ago and it's only been out since July. Yes, I wish there was a more substantial update by now, but in the bigger scheme of things, we shouldn't expect something until closer to MacWorld. Then it will be one year since the intro and I'm sure Apple wants to keep the iPhone hype going.

Look at it this way... what if we were talking about the Zune Phone from MS... we'd still be waiting on our first virus patch! :-) Major update? Don't even think of that for 2 years... of course, some other company would need to develop it first so they could copy it. :p

shawnce
Nov 26, 2007, 12:46 PM
FM transmitter = sends out an FM signal allowing FM receivers to lock and decode the signal

FM receiver = listens for FM transmissions, decodes them converting to (most often) an audio signal.

The later is often called a radio.

psychofreak
Nov 26, 2007, 12:49 PM
What the heck is that? Oxymoron?
Nope, just as a significant minority of people want the lap-timing function on iPods, enough to justify having it...

bretm
Nov 26, 2007, 12:50 PM
You may be in the majority, but a significant minority of people want radio, and it would hardly cost Apple anything to put one in...

well, you won't get radio from an fm transmitter that's for sure!

Popeye206
Nov 26, 2007, 12:51 PM
... While Apple's R&D process obviously has it's strong points, it is in my opinion, deeply flawed timewise.

You have got to be kidding? Apple is not perfect but they are still better at keeping the updates going and the innovation going better than ANYONE right now! My goodness... why else is everyone trying to copy the MacBooks, the iMac, and iPhone and the iPods? Oh... and OSX 10.4. Think about it... MS does not even make the Zune and they took over a year to copy the iPod nano. 5 years for the Vista abortion and yet when Apple completely revamps every product (new processors, hardware and software) within two years and introduces revolutionary new products like the iPhone we want to complain 6 months is too long for a major update to the iPhone.... Does that make sense???

UGH!

Popeye206
Nov 26, 2007, 12:53 PM
3rd party apps?

geez. i'm still hoping to surf and play music for more than 5 secs without crashing. :(

Hummm.... sounds like you need to stop crashing and call Apple for TS... they do fix their products you know???

Otaviano
Nov 26, 2007, 12:55 PM
Doubtful it will stay open. Google already said they were expecting companies to lock down the OS and put their own flavor or spin on it. It'll still be up to the carrier to manage. Look at Symbian, "The open mobile operating system." It's just another OS that developers have to write applications on. Android = lame, but only because it won't stay open. Carriers are greedy and want to nickel & dime you.

You need to look at the bigger picture. Outside of the United States people purchase their phones on their own and not through a carrier. Unless they are buying an expensive phone and it's being subsidised. So to say that Android will be crippled by carriers is a bit of a stretch, perhaps in the United States due to the structure of your cellular industry. However when Android comes to Europe and is on cheap cellular phones that people can afford it will be quite open, same applies to Asia.

Android, although perhaps announced prematurely can become a really big thing IMO.

megfilmworks
Nov 26, 2007, 01:16 PM
I think it's progressive that the device does NOT have an FM transmitter. What a total, pointless waste of space. I got an iPod so I wouldn't have to listen to the radio anymore...

I agree, I can't even listen to FM anymore, lousy audio quality, too many commercials and someone else's idea of what a playlist should be. Please Apple, no FM in the iPod. Get the Belkin adapter if you are desperate for bad audio.

crackermac
Nov 26, 2007, 01:29 PM
You need to look at the bigger picture. Outside of the United States people purchase their phones on their own and not through a carrier. Unless they are buying an expensive phone and it's being subsidised. So to say that Android will be crippled by carriers is a bit of a stretch, perhaps in the United States due to the structure of your cellular industry. However when Android comes to Europe and is on cheap cellular phones that people can afford it will be quite open, same applies to Asia.

Android, although perhaps announced prematurely can become a really big thing IMO.

I don't care about anywhere else. I just care about the US. :)

emotion
Nov 26, 2007, 01:38 PM
3rd party apps?

geez. i'm still hoping to surf and play music for more than 5 secs without crashing. :(

You need to restore your iPhone. That never happens to me. 1.1.2

As for all the whining about getting screwed over by Apple. Firmware 2.x might change that. Potentially there's a lot could come of that.

I give em another 6 months before I start crowing like some of you lot. I agree the iPhone could be more but blimey there's some serious impatience going on on these forums. It's a phone/data device, don't expect a cure for cancer.

So what's the bets that Google's Android Java platform, Dalvik, comes to iPhone?

pyramid6
Nov 26, 2007, 01:39 PM
The iPhone has multi-touch. That is it! Nothing else does it do is better than any body else, or does it have that others do. My Treo had more features than the iPhone, and the Treo was four years old. My WM5 had more features than the iPhone, and that was MS for pete's sake. The iPhone was an impressive device when it came out 6 months ago. Now, not so much. They haven't done anything new to the phone since it's release. iTunes doesn't count, they didn't add that new, they just didn't finish it to begin with.

Granted the iPhone is still a slick device and I wouldn't change it for anything on the market currently, but unless they come up with third party app support, or start writing their own, I won't be using iPhone in the future.

P6

starflyer
Nov 26, 2007, 01:39 PM
You may be in the majority, but a significant minority of people want radio, and it would hardly cost Apple anything to put one in...

For the Significant Minority:

http://www.apple.com/ipod/accessories/ (FM Receiver)
http://images.apple.com/ipod/accessories/images/accessory_radio20070905.jpg

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/itripdock (FM Transmitter)
http://www.griffintechnology.com/images/assets/headers/0000/0759/itripdock_1.jpg?1192589474

:D

emotion
Nov 26, 2007, 01:42 PM
Well, Greg, when it comes to a To Do application for the iPhone, you're not exactly one or two generations ahead, are you?

5 months and counting...

Totally agree (despite my above comments). Notes and Todo syncing with Leopard please Apple.

Thornie
Nov 26, 2007, 01:45 PM
I agree, I can't even listen to FM anymore, lousy audio quality, too many commercials and someone else's idea of what a playlist should be. Please Apple, no FM in the iPod. Get the Belkin adapter if you are desperate for bad audio.

I'd like an AM/FM tuner for morning talk radio. You know, for those long bus rides to work in the morning when I'm not in the mood for music. *shrugs* I don't think anyone listens to radio for music anymore, unless for wallpaper music purposes.

ChrisA
Nov 26, 2007, 01:52 PM
Doubtful it will stay open. Google already said they were expecting companies to lock down the OS and put their own flavor or spin on it..

How can it be covered by the GPL and not remain open?

I think what will happen is the core of the phone will be open source but companies will write closed source application that run on the phone. Kind of like running Oracle on Linux. This means companies can make their product better or at least different by adding their own custom applications (like visual voice mail) but users can also still make changes.

windywalks
Nov 26, 2007, 02:01 PM
I think it's progressive that the device does NOT have an FM transmitter. What a total, pointless waste of space. I got an iPod so I wouldn't have to listen to the radio anymore...

Transmitter doesn't equal receiver.

Anyway - who on earth needs an FM receiver or a transmitter for that matter? Live streaming or any media streaming would be great - over EDGE - kinda lame, WiFi or maybe UMTS in the future (future of iPhone of course). Satellite radio - why not.
Integrating mediocre quality audio such as FM radio is pretty much passe as the 50 y.o. technology itself.
That is not to say that I approve of the 128kbps AAC audio on iTunes, but it's mainly based on the average listener to say whether he really notices a difference.
FM receivers/transmitter are useful from time to time, but in everyday circumstances are useless for most and only add a another chip that needs power and space in the device itself.

Back to the article - bring on the SDK! Officialy let the greedy mitts of developers ;) have their way with the iPhone shortcomings!!!

MacFly123
Nov 26, 2007, 02:05 PM
...they added iTunes WIFI store and various other requested features to existing iPhone applications.

Oh ya.... like, landscape keyboard all around, copy paste, video recording, audio recording, mass text, text forwarding, mms, disk use, gps, search, voice control, Ooooh WAIT... NO THEY HAVEN\\\'T!!!! What requested features have they added???

MacFly123
Nov 26, 2007, 02:08 PM
For the Significant Minority:

http://www.apple.com/ipod/accessories/ (\"FM Receiver\")
http://images.apple.com/ipod/accessories/images/accessory_radio20070905.jpg

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/itripdock (\"FM Transmitter\")
http://www.griffintechnology.com/images/assets/headers/0000/0759/itripdock_1.jpg?1192589474

:D

AMEN... A radio is the LAST ****** thing in the entire world I would ever want in my iPod. The reason I NEVER listen to the radio is because I have an iPod lol. Some people are amazing...

coolfactor
Nov 26, 2007, 02:11 PM
I think it's progressive that the device does NOT have an FM transmitter. What a total, pointless waste of space. I got an iPod so I wouldn't have to listen to the radio anymore...

FM transmitter, not receiver. He wants to be able to broadcast to a nearby radio receiver without having to add a 3rd-party add-on. However, Apple specifically designed the iPod to be extensible by 3rd-party add-ons, so there's no motivation for every feature to be native. Just buy what you want and plug it in.

Matti
Nov 26, 2007, 02:28 PM
How can it be covered by the GPL and not remain open?

I think what will happen is the core of the phone will be open source but companies will write closed source application that run on the phone. Kind of like running Oracle on Linux. This means companies can make their product better or at least different by adding their own custom applications (like visual voice mail) but users can also still make changes.

Android isn't under GPL license. Google chose Apache Software License.

Random Ping
Nov 26, 2007, 02:41 PM
Android already has several steps up on Apple.


I think Android on cell phones will be as popular as Linux on the desktop. There will certainly be people using it (lots of geeks I'm sure), and there will be lots of applications (the vast majority of them crappy or missing the final 10% needed to make them feel professional), but in the end, if you want a finished, polished, and complete solution, Apple will be your source.

csimmons
Nov 26, 2007, 02:44 PM
You need to look at the bigger picture. Outside of the United States people purchase their phones on their own and not through a carrier. Unless they are buying an expensive phone and it's being subsidised. So to say that Android will be crippled by carriers is a bit of a stretch, perhaps in the United States due to the structure of your cellular industry. However when Android comes to Europe and is on cheap cellular phones that people can afford it will be quite open, same applies to Asia.
.

This is not entirely true. People CAN purchase their phones unlocked without a carrier, but the majority purchase their phones subsidized through a carrier, just like in the US. That's why €1 phones are so popular. :)

megfilmworks
Nov 26, 2007, 02:48 PM
I think Android on cell phones will be as popular as Linux on the desktop. There will certainly be people using it (lots of geeks I'm sure), and there will be lots of applications (the vast majority of them crappy or missing the final 10% needed to make them feel professional), but in the end, if you want a finished, polished, and complete solution, Apple will be your source.
I agree, Android will be great fun for young computer hobbyists, but the serious user who wants his iPhone to accomplish work tasks with ease and security will never take a look at Android, they have better things to do than fiddle with their phone. But Android will appeal to that large tinkering demo.

Random Ping
Nov 26, 2007, 02:51 PM
but unless they come up with third party app support, or start writing their own, I won't be using iPhone in the future.

Yep. I am waiting for the SDK before I buy my iPhone (scheduled for February, but I bet it will be released at MacWorld in January!). A good quality SDK, coupled with a good quality development environment (i.e., Xcode), should completely transform the iPhone.

By the end of June (i.e., the one year anniversary, and still ahead of Android phones being available), because of fully supported 3rd party apps, the iPhone will be complete different than it is today.

maleszew
Nov 26, 2007, 03:04 PM
Am I the only one that is still overly-anxious for Notes and To-do syncing?

This seems like such a basic feature, and in fact, Joswiak seems to mention it:

"That’s what I mean about being focused on what your primary use is. All along, from the early days, we gave the iPod other great things that it could do. We gave it calendars, to-dos and contacts and things of that sort. We have been relentless in the innovation we’ve brought to the stage, and every year coming up with something that seems to be a big hit for that holiday, and blowing people away."

When can we expect this function??

guzhogi
Nov 26, 2007, 03:16 PM
I like how Apple's delivering an SDK and digital signatures. There are a lot of really good 3rd party apps/developers, but a lot of malware writers, too. The signatures will help w/ that. I'd like to see what would happen this way & if Apple used Google's Android software, too. Some other stuff I'd like to see are:
-AM/FM radio
-3G
-Higher megapixel camera w/ flash
-Ability to shoot video w/ audio

Pixbae
Nov 26, 2007, 03:50 PM
My father can site two reasons he hasn't even considered owning an iPod:

1. no radio (for listening to baseball games)
He says that if he's going to pay a premium for an iPod, he shouldn't have to pay MORE for a radio attachment - there's lots of cheap mp3 players with good quality audio that also give him a radio

2. No automatic podcast syncing
He wants to plug in his iPod before he goes to bed, download his New York Times podcast from Audible in the morning (it comes around 4am I think) and have it automatically sync with his iPod so he can just grab it as he walks out the door in the morning - without having to remember to go and have it sync, and then have to wait. His current player does that - no hassle. It's also the problem he has with the Apple TV - why can't his downloaded shows be automatically added to his Apple TV? If he's already paid for the subscription, why should he have to go through his computer at all - it should just be there on his Apple TV when he wants it.

I'm sure my dad's not alone - the only times I miss having a radio on my iPod are when I'm at the gym and I want to tune in to what they're playing on the TV. With current technology, radios can't be that big or cheap - so what's the problem?

Also, regarding #2, I don't why that functionality isn't already built in. It doesn't seem that complicated.

I agree that if Apple is already thinking about the future, why aren't they taking care of some of the current, simple shortcomings of their products?

nickane
Nov 26, 2007, 03:54 PM
It's true... when the iPhone gets 3G everyone else will still be on 1G.

Android already has several steps up on Apple.
1. Customer choice -- Same software, you choose what features you want in a device
2. Customer choice x2 -- Choose the provider that works best for YOU, the consumer.
3. Open, no need to hack it to make it work.

Fortunately, if you don't like the way android is going, feel free to make it your own branch (at risk of breaking compatibility with other 3rd party software, of course)

I think the iPhone is cute, has nifty visual effects that many users love, and will continue to be good for those users. Me, however, I'll wait for the Android deviceS arriving throughout 2008.

Haha. Yeah, I was wondering when someone was gonna pick him up on that generations BS. Apple may be innovative and think 3 UIs ahead, but they'll be darned if they'll throw in a feature that's pretty much standard everywhere else until they absolutely have to. That's like B&O boasting about how ahead of the curve they are in the home cinema market, when they're still deciding whether or not to support DTS decoding...

-Trinity-
Nov 26, 2007, 04:40 PM
...iPhone to accomplish work tasks with ease and security...

WTF!?!? Are you serious?!? :confused: Ask youself, how easily can you do these common work tasks:
-write notes and sync them with your work computer
-manage your corporate e-mail
-add tasks and sync them with your work computer
-open Word/Excel/PhotoShop/etc. email attachements and edit them
-copy & paste (only the most commonly used operation on desktop computers)
-send mail with attachements (other than pictures)
-find contacts that work for company X from the address book
-send & receive vCards
-work as a modem for your laptop
-guide you on your business trip from A to B while you are driving yourself. (Google Maps is not navigator)
-print directly from the phone over network
-fax from the phone (yeah... this still exists)
-sync everything remotely

And how about that security part? The iPhone is very likely to be stolen from your hands. I have seen many post about this at various mobile phone forums. What if it gets stolen or you lost it?
-was the top secret corporate data encrypted?
-can it be encrypted remotely?
-is there PGP support?
-can you make a backup image of all the files on your phone and send it to some server? (can this be automated?)
-is there the ability to remotely lock and disable the device? (with SMS)
-is there the ability to remotely erase data?
-is there S/MIME support?
-can the phone be traced with SMS (discreet GPS coord. reply message)

I'm sure that I forgot many important security and business aspects...

Could we just agree that the iPhone is nice fashion/media phone, but sucks as business device.

twoodcc
Nov 26, 2007, 04:55 PM
This sounds great.. one or even TWO generations ahead. Oooh i cant wait :apple:

that's my thoughts also, but we'll see.

winterspan
Nov 26, 2007, 06:12 PM
Doubtful it will stay open. Google already said they were expecting companies to lock down the OS and put their own flavor or spin on it. It'll still be up to the carrier to manage. Look at Symbian, "The open mobile operating system." It's just another OS that developers have to write applications on. Android = lame, but only because it won't stay open. Carriers are greedy and want to nickel & dime you.


Google never said anything about "expecting companies/carriers to lock down the OS". And Symbian is NOT AN OPEN SYSTEM either.
Android = too early to tell. You = lame for dismissing something that hasn't even seen it's infancy yet.

winterspan
Nov 26, 2007, 06:14 PM
I think it's progressive that the device does NOT have an FM transmitter. What a total, pointless waste of space. I got an iPod so I wouldn't have to listen to the radio anymore...

hmm... Though I don't care for/use that feature because of it's limited quality, he's talking about an FM transmitter, keyword: TRANSMITTER.

winterspan
Nov 26, 2007, 06:20 PM
I don't care about anywhere else. I just care about the US. :)

oh god.. let me guess... another "freedom lover" and supporter of that assnut in the whitehouse...

You should travel outside the United States. or at least try to make it out of the "heartland".

winterspan
Nov 26, 2007, 06:27 PM
I think Android on cell phones will be as popular as Linux on the desktop. There will certainly be people using it (lots of geeks I'm sure), and there will be lots of applications (the vast majority of them crappy or missing the final 10% needed to make them feel professional), but in the end, if you want a finished, polished, and complete solution, Apple will be your source.

Polished, yes. "Finished" and "complete"? I would STRONGLY disagree with that statement if referring to the iPhone.

On your other point about linux/OSS, I would partially agree, except that the OSS community has become alot more organized, and interface designers and other artists are now part of the picture. Apple, linux, or windows, ALOT more open source stuff is coming out polished and looking decent.

winterspan
Nov 26, 2007, 06:38 PM
I agree, Android will be great fun for young computer hobbyists, but the serious user who wants his iPhone to accomplish work tasks with ease and security will never take a look at Android, they have better things to do than fiddle with their phone. But Android will appeal to that large tinkering demo.

Whoah. I think you have a great career waiting for you in securities speculation and/or Mrs Cleo's psychic line. Does that supreme knowledge find it's roots in clairvoyance or is it just the result of an unhealthy fanaticism with a computer company?
A "serious" user will wait until a new product IS ACTUALLY IN PRODUCTION before reviewing it.

sjo
Nov 26, 2007, 07:24 PM
This is not entirely true. People CAN purchase their phones unlocked without a carrier, but the majority purchase their phones subsidized through a carrier, just like in the US. That's why €1 phones are so popular. :)

not true. vast majority of the mobile users around world are on PAYG basis, not subscribers.

Matek
Nov 27, 2007, 04:24 AM
Huh, what he said about Apple being generations ahead is IMHO too cocky and plain wrong too. Phones you can buy for under 100 eur (unlocked and everything) have MMS and UTMS support. I think that's the reason the iPhone hasn't been too popular in Europe, 3G is much more widespread while less and less people use edge. A multitouch interface might be pretty cool and innovative, but that doesn't mean they can let out standard features everyone has gotten used to already.

csimmons
Nov 27, 2007, 05:33 AM
not true. vast majority of the mobile users around world are on PAYG basis, not subscribers.

Sorry, but I think you are wrong. Many purchase their phones on PAYG basis, but they are not the majority, at least where I live (Germany). In Germany, there are way more phones sold through subscription or contract as PAYG.

csimmons
Nov 27, 2007, 05:48 AM
Huh, what he said about Apple being generations ahead is IMHO too cocky and plain wrong too. Phones you can buy for under 100 eur (unlocked and everything) have MMS and UTMS support. I think that's the reason the iPhone hasn't been too popular in Europe, 3G is much more widespread while less and less people use edge. A multitouch interface might be pretty cool and innovative, but that doesn't mean they can let out standard features everyone has gotten used to already.

1. The iPhone has only been out in Europe for 3 weeks. Whether it's popular or not is too early to tell. Clearly there isn't the buying frenzy that there was in the US, but in all honesty, it was the exact same situation for the iPod in Europe. It was slow to be adopted in europe too, but now it's the number 1 player on the market.

2. I doubt very seriously that the lack of MMS and UMTS - 2 features that are statistically shown to be of little interest to many cell phone users, even after years of cell phone provider propaganda - is the reason why the iPhone is not as well received in Europe the high price plus vendor has proven to be the dealbreaker for many, not the feature set.

3. I love it how many people assume that since the iPhone doesn't have many features NOW (I personally find the fact that you can't send an SMS to multiple numbers a totally dumb oversight on Apple's part) somehow means that those features won't be included EVER, and that's clearly not the case. That's the beauty of the iPhone model: it can all be added via a software update, and the update procedure is quick and painless.

takao
Nov 27, 2007, 07:07 AM
i too find it embarrassing to talk about being generations ahead when they can't even match some of the features which 1 euro phones with the cheapest contract available have since years

Porco
Nov 27, 2007, 09:18 AM
i too find it embarrassing to talk about being generations ahead when they can't even match some of the features which 1 euro phones with the cheapest contract available have since years

I agree. I think the iPhone looks really cool and the multi-touch stuff is great, but there's too much that the iPhone could easily do that it doesn't, and that's just silly.

If the future is 2G, not being able to use your own music as ringtones, no flash websites, being forced into using one network carrier if you like a certain make of phone etc etc I'll stay in the present for now thanks!

roach
Nov 27, 2007, 09:35 AM
I think it's progressive that the device does NOT have an FM transmitter. What a total, pointless waste of space. I got an iPod so I wouldn't have to listen to the radio anymore...

Damn... I want FM. I even want AM, so I can listen to game plays while watching a game at the stadium.

Sony dude, but everybody think you.

Daeve
Nov 27, 2007, 10:19 AM
Sorry, but I think you are wrong. Many purchase their phones on PAYG basis, but they are not the majority, at least where I live (Germany). In Germany, there are way more phones sold through subscription or contract as PAYG.

Well I think in the UK it's the other way around. A quick office poll of over 20 people showed only myself and two others have contracts - the rest are all on Pay as You Go - same in my family (15 people) - I'm the only one on a contract there. Most people I know only seem to spend £10-20 or so a month on their mobile phone - even the ones on £40K+ a year so a contract will rarely be worth it to them.

I imagine more phones are sold via subscription as the people I know on contracts (like myself) upgrade every year to a free (or practically free) new handset - whereas the PAYG lot use their same phones for years.

sjo
Nov 27, 2007, 10:27 AM
Sorry, but I think you are wrong. Many purchase their phones on PAYG basis, but they are not the majority, at least where I live (Germany). In Germany, there are way more phones sold through subscription or contract as PAYG.

you realize that in germany about 36m mobile phones are sold compared to the 1.1b sold worldwide? so you're making your conclusion based on 3% sample that is not even very representative...

christian_k
Nov 27, 2007, 10:42 AM
For FM transmitters:

There are legal issues if such a device is sold internationally. In Germany this has been illegal for a long time, some months ago it was legalized, but the allowed transmission power is so low that it is barely usable (even the distance from the passenger seat to the car radio is a problem). The FM band is also very crowded here, when you drive 50 km in the car its often impossible to find a channel that is free all the way.

In many other countries such devices are still completely illegal.

Building A2DP into the car radio (or a simple line in jack) is a better solution in most cases.

Christian

goosnarrggh
Nov 27, 2007, 11:26 AM
For the Significant Minority:

http://www.apple.com/ipod/accessories/ (FM Receiver)
http://images.apple.com/ipod/accessories/images/accessory_radio20070905.jpg

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/itripdock (FM Transmitter)
http://www.griffintechnology.com/images/assets/headers/0000/0759/itripdock_1.jpg?1192589474

:D

For people interested in the receiving side, Apple's official iPod Radio Tuner / Remote adaptor isn't compatible with the iPod Touch. When you plug it in, you get a dialogue box displaying a warning to that effect.

For people interested in the transmitting side, though, I see no reason why the 3rd party radio transmitters would cease to work, since they're just tying into the Line Out pins which are known to be unchanged.