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MacRumors
Nov 29, 2007, 09:02 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

AT&T Inc. Chief Executive Officer Randall Stephenson confirmed (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aAoHevYzQJgw&refer=us) that the 3G version of the iPhone would be made available "next year".

Plans for using the faster 3G data connection in the iPhone have not been secret. Steve Jobs has stated (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/19/3g-iphone-in-the-works/) that a 3G iPhone is coming, but that the delay is due to excessive battery life consumption with existing 3G chipsets. The iPhone presently uses the EDGE network for its data connectivity.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/29/3g-iphone-due-in-2008/)



MarlboroLite
Nov 29, 2007, 09:05 AM
Oh well, I won't switch from Verizon to spotty AT&T no matter what. Please Jobs come out with a CDMA version!!!!!!!!!!! Please!!!!!!!!!!:(

GoodWatch
Nov 29, 2007, 09:08 AM
Sometimes it can be an advantage to live in a country where the launch of the first gen iPhone isn't even planned yet! :) The prices may have come down a bit as well then. ;)

melchior
Nov 29, 2007, 09:09 AM
"you'll have it next year" is soooo informative considering no one in their right mind will have a major release between now and January...

Launch the 3G iphone in Australia. Sounds like a plan to me! (probably be november 2008)

iBlue
Nov 29, 2007, 09:09 AM
WOW! Thanks so much apple, welcome to last year!

chaseardoin7
Nov 29, 2007, 09:09 AM
meh. good news i guess. i've actually been surprised at how fast the EDGE network actually is.


chase :apple:



buying a 24" imac in 2 weeks :D

jakeryansmith
Nov 29, 2007, 09:11 AM
I'm glad I waited to buy an iPhone! I almost did last weekend. This is great news.:p

DamnDJ
Nov 29, 2007, 09:12 AM
That's great news, but doesn't help us Denver folk since AT&T doesn't have 3g active here yet.

Boo

melchior
Nov 29, 2007, 09:13 AM
???? I suppose you're yet to use a HSDPA enabled device?


meh. good news i guess. i've actually been surprised at how fast the EDGE network actually is.


chase :apple:



buying a 24" imac in 2 weeks :D

fastlane1588
Nov 29, 2007, 09:13 AM
so lets se there is one tuesday per week, and 52 weeks in 2008 that means we have 52 chances to get excited and dissapointed. so whos ready to start guessing?!

takao
Nov 29, 2007, 09:16 AM
That's great news, but doesn't help us Denver folk since AT&T doesn't have 3g active here yet.

Boo

well it's mostly about europe i would guess ... some carriers here have 90% coverage already in austria (which is higher than EDGE coverage by _far_)

hardly surprising that no 2g phone has been released yet

BornAgainMac
Nov 29, 2007, 09:22 AM
Oh well, I won't switch from Verizon to spotty AT&T no matter what. Please Jobs come out with a CDMA version!!!!!!!!!!! Please!!!!!!!!!!:(

I believe that fixed that. I don't have any problems. I look forward to seeing the 2nd Generation phone. Even if AT&T is spotty, I would never go back to a ordinary phone.

pacohaas
Nov 29, 2007, 09:25 AM
no 3G within 100 miles of me, bring on the better battery life with EDGE, screw 3G.

Dippo
Nov 29, 2007, 09:25 AM
I am sure Apple is going to release this new iPhone for a very low price of $599! I think I'll stick with my Virtual iPhone (http://vphone.red-rome.com) until they drop the 16GB 3G iPhone to $399 only two months after it is released.

mahashel
Nov 29, 2007, 09:25 AM
This is good to know (if a bit obvious), though I'd imagine Jobs would rather the announcement be made closer to the actual ship date. At this point, many prospective iPhone customers will wait for the 3G version, effectively freezing iPhone sales for an undetermined period into the future.
If I had to venture a guess, our friendly Mr. Randall Stephenson from AT&T will be getting a truckload of coal dumped in his christmas stocking this year.. compliments of Steve-O. ;)

thejadedmonkey
Nov 29, 2007, 09:26 AM
I'd like to see if it get a form factor redesign..

plumbingandtech
Nov 29, 2007, 09:26 AM
Oh well, I won't switch from Verizon to spotty AT&T no matter what. Please Jobs come out with a CDMA version!!!!!!!!!!! Please!!!!!!!!!!:(

You'll be waiting a long, long time. Prob. Never. CDMA is a dying standard as Verizon's partner has already stated that the next gen 4g? is going to ditch CDMA unless I am mistaken.

mike12806
Nov 29, 2007, 09:26 AM
Maybe this will be enabled in first gen iphones....like the $1.99 802.11n enabler? Here's one iPhone owner hoping ha. On another note, anyone think this will cause an uproar a la the $200 price drop? Don't get me wrong, I love my iPhone, but apple can't expect people to upgrade their $600 dollar device yearly. I'm gonna say this is a little misinformed corporate slip up...

alywa
Nov 29, 2007, 09:30 AM
This should come as no surprise, as apple has indicated that a 3G is in the works.

For me, it matters not. I live in a rural area which won't see 3G for many years. EDGE reception, however, is quite good and very useful. True, I prefer to use Safari with Wifi over EDGE, but Google Maps, Weather, Mail, etc all work pretty darn well with EDGE.

I realize that the majority of the US population lives near or in our 50-100 or so major metropolitan areas, but for those of us in more rural areas, this is a non-issue. Look at the coverage maps for your area... can you use 3G?

http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/

I'm guessing most of you can, but certainly not everyone.

I'm far more interested in apple bringing out another iPhone product (nano-type) than an upgrade to the existing iPhone.

amac4me
Nov 29, 2007, 09:30 AM
I hope it's released early in 2008, my current contract with a different carrier ends in December. I'd really like to get an iPhone but have been hoping for a 3G version. Hopefully an announcement will occur at MacWorld in Jan.

tcoleman
Nov 29, 2007, 09:32 AM
I'm glad I waited to buy an iPhone! I almost did last weekend. This is great news.:p

You're kidding, right? I mean, you're not seriously going to wait for a phone coming out sometime "next year" if you almost bought one last weekend.

JFreak
Nov 29, 2007, 09:35 AM
Please Jobs come out with a CDMA version!!!!!!!!!!! Please!!!!!!!!!!:(

Why? CDMA is dead.

crackermac
Nov 29, 2007, 09:36 AM
I love to see everyone whining and complaining about no 3G in the iPhone. I wonder how many of those people realize that 3G isn't available every where.

Thanks for posting the map to AT&T 3G coverage.

Why? CDMA is dead.

Globally speaking.

iBlue
Nov 29, 2007, 09:41 AM
I love to see everyone whining and complaining about no 3G in the iPhone. I wonder how many of those people realize that 3G isn't available every where.

Thanks for posting the map to AT&T 3G coverage.
It exists vastly in any place that matters. :p

Surely
Nov 29, 2007, 09:42 AM
I was thinking of picking an iPhone up sometime in the new year, but now I guess I'm going to wait a little while longer. Nothing feels worse than buying something and then a newer version comes out two weeks later.

Hopefully someone will leak something that is more specific about the timing. I'd be more satisfied if this guy would have said something like early or late 2008 instead of just 'next year'.

deathshrub
Nov 29, 2007, 09:43 AM
3G is pointless, unless you are downloading 20 meg attachments (which I can guarantee you are not on your iPhone). EDGE is fast enough.

lord patton
Nov 29, 2007, 09:47 AM
so lets se there is one tuesday per week, and 52 weeks in 2008 that means we have 52 chances to get excited and dissapointed. so whos ready to start guessing?!

Actually, there are 53 Tuesdays in 2008. And we can be pretty sure they won't announce on Jan. 1st or Nov. 4th, and one of the Tuesdays will actually be the BIG DAY, so that's only 50 chances to be disappointed!

MikeDTyke
Nov 29, 2007, 09:49 AM
3G is pointless, unless you are downloading 20 meg attachments (which I can guarantee you are not on your iPhone). EDGE is fast enough.

It certainly isn't pointless, for one thing you can be on a call and be looking up stuff in Safari, which you can't at the moment. Now whilst it's debateable whether you'll notice an overall improvement browsing web pages with a lot of small files ie. images ie. your point about a 20MB file has merit. Things like Youtube become much more pleasant.

M.

uNext
Nov 29, 2007, 09:52 AM
I dont know what the big deal for 3g is.

I live in Miami, FL and i get 3g i use it on my lenovo thinkpad.
But edge is perfect for email, weather,google maps, stocks for the on the go devices

Why do people want 3g? Will you be able to download stuff into your iphone? i know the benefit is 600kbps+
but is it really needed? Faster internet browsing?
malls,cafes and anywhere you can think off have a hotspot network oepn.

Do people walk and drive and browse at the same time that they need 3g broadband at all times?

SactoGuy18
Nov 29, 2007, 09:52 AM
I do think we will see an iPhone with HSDPA 3G support by June 2008 at latest. The reason is simple: it will be very useful in Europe and Japan, where HSPDA broadband access are fairly common.

jholzner
Nov 29, 2007, 09:56 AM
Maybe this will be enabled in first gen iphones....like the $1.99 802.11n enabler? Here's one iPhone owner hoping ha. On another note, anyone think this will cause an uproar a la the $200 price drop? Don't get me wrong, I love my iPhone, but apple can't expect people to upgrade their $600 dollar device yearly. I'm gonna say this is a little misinformed corporate slip up...

There can be no software enabler for 3g. With the 802.11n, the hardware was there already and the software activated it. There is no 3G hardware in the current iphone and all the software in the world can't make it so.

RichP
Nov 29, 2007, 09:57 AM
I do think we will see an iPhone with HSDPA 3G support by June 2008 at latest. The reason is simple: it will be very useful in Europe and Japan, where HSPDA broadband access are fairly common.

I would agree, that is about 1 year out from the release of the phone. That broadcom article a few months back about more efficient 3G chips will probably help the battery situation in the iphone. Lets face it, the battery in it now is satisfactory at best, especially in a phone where it cant be easily switched.

gloss
Nov 29, 2007, 09:58 AM
I'm on this like white on rice. I love my 16gb iPod touch; the only thing better would be to stick a phone in there too and allow me to browse anywhere.

Magical. Can't wait.

takao
Nov 29, 2007, 09:58 AM
3G is pointless, unless you are downloading 20 meg attachments (which I can guarantee you are not on your iPhone). EDGE is fast enough.

"640k is enough" ;)

that said many people around here use 3G already for mobile internet (very useful for students) so it would make sense to use the phone as a modem .. oh wait we are talking about the iphone here ...


and free to use open wireless networks aren't that common around here neither in malls or cafés

unixwzrd
Nov 29, 2007, 09:59 AM
The Japan market is huge. People are married to their phones here.

It's a requirement for the Japan release. The W-CDMA in Japan is not compatible with other network, however the 3G offered by SoftBank and others is compatible with the US 3G system and is what most people are migrating to in Japan.

Besides they have already committed to an "early next year" release for the iPhone in Japan.

Just give it more memory and unlock it. I'll gladly ditch my mobile phone, iPod and PDA for an iPhone.

CANEHDN
Nov 29, 2007, 10:00 AM
Hopefully it's on the next revision of the iPhone. That and more storage is what I'm waiting for.

DesignerOnMac
Nov 29, 2007, 10:02 AM
This should come as no surprise, as apple has indicated that a 3G is in the works.

For me, it matters not. I live in a rural area which won't see 3G for many years. EDGE reception, however, is quite good and very useful. True, I prefer to use Safari with Wifi over EDGE, but Google Maps, Weather, Mail, etc all work pretty darn well with EDGE.

I realize that the majority of the US population lives near or in our 50-100 or so major metropolitan areas, but for those of us in more rural areas, this is a non-issue. Look at the coverage maps for your area... can you use 3G?

http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/

I'm guessing most of you can, but certainly not everyone.

I'm far more interested in apple bringing out another iPhone product (nano-type) than an upgrade to the existing iPhone.

I would take ANY kind of coverage! EDGE, 3G, or two iphones with string connecting them! I have NO cellphone coverage at all where I live. Be happy you have an iPhone that works with EDGE or any other coverage!

Does Apple EVER do ANYTHING RIGHT? According to most here...NOT!

joosteggink
Nov 29, 2007, 10:03 AM
finaly a new iphone i have the current model but it really laks when you look at the internet speed:S

i hope it will also be possible to break the simlock in the new model:)

happydude
Nov 29, 2007, 10:03 AM
this is what i'm waiting for. 2nd gen iphone with 3g is all it will take for me to slap down the few c-notes and join the iphone wave. please please please be announced at macworld 08 to be ready to ship that day or soon thereafter . . . yeah right . . . just chompin at the bit for an iphone. common, make haste, apple!!!

:apple::D:apple:

elcid
Nov 29, 2007, 10:03 AM
This is good to know (if a bit obvious), though I'd imagine Jobs would rather the announcement be made closer to the actual ship date. At this point, many prospective iPhone customers will wait for the 3G version, effectively freezing iPhone sales for an undetermined period into the future.
If I had to venture a guess, our friendly Mr. Randall Stephenson from AT&T will be getting a truckload of coal dumped in his christmas stocking this year.. compliments of Steve-O. ;)

I would imagine they would have an agreement when it came to announcing new iPhones. To me this speaks to an iPhone in early 2008 as you pointed out it would be crazy to say this and release it in October.

EDGE and 3G or just 3G?

zulgand04
Nov 29, 2007, 10:05 AM
Oh well, I won't switch from Verizon to spotty AT&T no matter what. Please Jobs come out with a CDMA version!!!!!!!!!!! Please!!!!!!!!!!:(

Its official Verizon is going GSM, for their 4g network. Looks like CDMA is going the way of the caveman.

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Verizon-Wireless-Picks-100Mbps-LTE-89807


-neal

michaelsviews
Nov 29, 2007, 10:07 AM
so lets se there is one tuesday per week, and 52 weeks in 2008 that means we have 52 chances to get excited and dissapointed. so whos ready to start guessing?!

I'll take October 1, 2008 - November 22, 2008 for release of lets just call it

2nd Generation iPhone, to include GPS, 3G, 16 Gig memory, & Bigger battery :D

Imagine piggy backing off of Verizon's and T-Mobile's and AT&T's towers when everything is GSM ?

Than again reality just hit me and AT&T cant even get there 3G up through out the US, what was I thinking.

takao
Nov 29, 2007, 10:11 AM
The Japan market is huge. People are married to their phones here.

It's a requirement for the Japan release. The W-CDMA in Japan is not compatible with other network, however the 3G offered by SoftBank and others is compatible with the US 3G system and is what most people are migrating to in Japan.

UMTS is based on W-CDMA

it's very likely just different protocols

Surely
Nov 29, 2007, 10:16 AM
Hopefully it's on the next revision of the iPhone. That and more storage is what I'm waiting for.

Seconded on the 'more storage'.
I would prefer a storage upgrade over a 3G upgrade. But both would be nice too :)

Gherkin
Nov 29, 2007, 10:18 AM
3G, 16 GB of storage (or maybe 32 will be doable when it's released), possibly GPS?, better camera, 3rd party apps at this point.

iPhone 2.0 is looking to be a freakin' beast.

Sweetfeld28
Nov 29, 2007, 10:24 AM
I believe it when i see it [regarding the Verizon 4G switch].


I am surprised however that when i checked the coverage map for 3G, i actually do have it. Thats some what surprising since i live in the country.

asphalt-proof
Nov 29, 2007, 10:24 AM
Reading some of these comments make me realize why Apple is so secretive of future products. Already we have had several people swear off iPhone buying till the next generation comes. Can't imagine that Steve is very happy at this moment.

As far as 3G goes. Meh. I would rather have GPS and more storage space. 3 G is far from ubiquitous here in the states and certainly not around where i live. It would be nice i gues, just make sure it doesn't affect battery life.

GNU is Not Unix
Nov 29, 2007, 10:27 AM
A 3G iphone with decent battery life and that I can bluetooth-tether to my MBP for a 3G internet connection using my AT&T unlimited data plan? I'm sold. See you later $59.99 Verizon EV-DO plan.

dernhelm
Nov 29, 2007, 10:28 AM
I hope this doesn't happen. I never plan on getting an iPhone or anything, but I do find the "What no 3G support?" posts endlessly amusing.

zephead
Nov 29, 2007, 10:32 AM
I really want an iPhone now(!!), but I'll have to pinch myself or something if I try to buy one before this one comes out. I've had 3G on my last two phones (Samsungs) and I'm gonna hold out for an iPhone with one.

daze
Nov 29, 2007, 10:33 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3A109a Safari/419.3)

phone should work with edge if no 3g

compuguy1088
Nov 29, 2007, 10:35 AM
UMTS is based on W-CDMA

it's very likely just different protocols

W-CDMA is the air interface:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Mobile_Telecommunications_System

I woudn't say the technology of CDMA is dead, but plain CDMA (Current Verizon) is a dieing trend. The only problem with 3g now is coverage, which is only here in the US limited to major metropolitan areas, like where I am. This though only stretches only to the end of the county I'm in. If your in the neighboring county, your out of luck for 3g.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3A109a Safari/419.3)

phone should work with edge if no 3g

Phones like the Blackjack do that if there is no 3g connection. There is also a hidden option on that phone to force the use of only edge as well, to increase battery life.

no 3G within 100 miles of me, bring on the better battery life with EDGE, screw 3G.

Then the phone would just fall back on an EDGE connection, and you would get that better battery life.

Yankees 4 Life
Nov 29, 2007, 10:37 AM
wow.... :rolleyes:
http://yosh.org/hello1.jpg

plumbingandtech
Nov 29, 2007, 10:37 AM
I believe it when i see it [regarding the Verizon 4G switch].

It does not matter if you believe it or not.

It's happening.

CDMA is a dead end and we won't be seeing an iphone built for a dead end tech, especially when it is wrapped up in a ATT (not CDMA clause'd) contract for the next 3-4 years.

compuguy1088
Nov 29, 2007, 10:38 AM
wow.... :rolleyes:
[snip]

Goodbye last week! Hello this week! :D

It does not matter if you believe it or not.

It's happening.

CDMA is a dead end and we won't be seeing an iphone built for a dead end tech, especially when it is wrapped up in a ATT (not CDMA clause'd) contract for the next 3-4 years.

The technology of CDMA is not dead (it is carried on with W-CDMA), its just that plain CDMA that Verizon uses is a dead end.

You could also say that GSM is at its end in a way, with the coming of UMTS, though that rollout will take a long time to occur.

plumbingandtech
Nov 29, 2007, 10:41 AM
The technology of CDMA is not dead (it is carried on with W-CDMA), its just that plain CDMA that Verizon uses is a dead end.

And he was speaking about an iPhone for Verizon. So true, I should have said, Verizon's CMDA implentation for mobile wireless is a dead end.... but long story short.

No iPhone for the "can you hear me now?" people.

Yankees 4 Life
Nov 29, 2007, 10:41 AM
Goodbye last week! Hello this week! :D

hahaha, i dont know, i feel like we are still in the dark ages with apple....

Mykbibby
Nov 29, 2007, 10:41 AM
What is your guys' problem? Quit bitching! When the iPhone first came out, everyone was screaming because there wasn't 3G, and now you're going to have it, and everyone's saying how much it doesn't matter? Besides, this is the best rumors we've had in a while. This is CONFIRMATION that a new iPhone is coming next year! And do you guys really think that 3G is all they'll introduce? I'm positive there will be more memory, it will be thinner, the headphone jack won't be recessed, the speaker will be good, and the camera's quality will be upped, maybe with a flash. This is the news we've been waiting for!

bukweet
Nov 29, 2007, 10:42 AM
Didn't know this... from the ATT site:

"All 3G compatible devices are also EDGE compatible providing the best combination of speed and coverage."

Bring on the 3G iPhones! I've had my iPhone for only a week, but the wife has been showing more and more interest in my new "toy". :D

wizard
Nov 29, 2007, 10:42 AM
3G is pointless, unless you are downloading 20 meg attachments (which I can guarantee you are not on your iPhone). EDGE is fast enough.

See this is the attitude that I personally hate about the Apple apologist. Just because you personally don't have a need for large attachments or have never received them doesn't mean that some of us here haven't. A couple high resolution photos or a PDF or two and you can easily exceed a 20 meg download. So don't go about guaranteeing what you don't know about.

One the other hand if Apple wold get its head out of its ass and complete the features the iPhone was suppose to have or should have had this becomes a far smaller issue. For example being able to manage the iPhones store through a disk mode interface. So in a sense I agree EDGE is pretty fast for a good portion of the uses a person will put it through, it just won't be fast enough for every demand.

In any event what the hell do I know I'm still on dial up. Which points out that a service is only as useful as the ability to provide it.

Dave

unixwzrd
Nov 29, 2007, 10:43 AM
UMTS is based on W-CDMA

it's very likely just different protocols

Actually, it's different frequency spectrum. At least the W-CDMA in Japan occupies different a different frequency spectrum from other countries.

I'm glad I can use my Japanese phone (Nokia N73) in the rest of the world. Very convenient.

The real item is who will Apple partner with, it's probably a toss-up between NTT and SoftBank.

My money is on SoftBank, but they are tight with Yahoo rather than Google.

compuguy1088
Nov 29, 2007, 10:44 AM
What is your guys' problem? Quit bitching! When the iPhone first came out, everyone was screaming because there wasn't 3G, and now you're going to have it, and everyone's saying how much it doesn't matter? Besides, this is the best rumors we've had in a while. This is CONFIRMATION that a new iPhone is coming next year! And do you guys really think that 3G is all they'll introduce? I'm positive there will be more memory, it will be thinner, the headphone jack won't be recessed, the speaker will be good, and the camera's quality will be upped, maybe with a flash. This is the news we've been waiting for!

I'm not moaning.....my iPhone now is perfectly fine for the uses that I do with it. Even though I am in a 3g area now, which is limited to a small percentage of NOVA/DC.

hahaha, i dont know, i feel like we are still in the dark ages with apple....

I don't think for me it's as much with Apple, it is with the cell carriers and the slow rollout of 3g here in the US. Obviously there is alot more territory to cover in rolling out this system, compared to Europe. We are pretty much in the dark ages in that area.

question fear
Nov 29, 2007, 10:45 AM
This is far from shocking.


And yes, CDMA is dead dead dead dead dead. The only places it survives are the USA, Canada, and parts of Asia...but Asia uses a different standard, and that standard is mutating into the W-CDMA/UMTS/3G GSM evolution.

It will take years, but Verizon and Sprint are on borrowed time. They need to evolve or perish.

EagerDragon
Nov 29, 2007, 10:45 AM
Guys remember that the 3G phone requires to go back to FCC for approval, so it will be announced first by Apple then made available 1 to 3 months later.

Given that this is the second round with the FCC it is likely to be only 4 weeks for the re-test and Apple may delay announcing until the tests are at least part of the way thru since the bigger the gap between announcement and ship date, the less phones they will sell as the old ones would be "defunct".

Jan or Feb announcement, available in March, thats my prediction.

freeny
Nov 29, 2007, 10:46 AM
Oh well, I won't switch from Verizon to spotty AT&T no matter what. Please Jobs come out with a CDMA version!!!!!!!!!!! Please!!!!!!!!!!:(

I continue to be completely dumbfounded as to the constant complaints about this carrier or that carrier,

They all suck! EQUALLY ;)

compuguy1088
Nov 29, 2007, 10:47 AM
This is far from shocking.


And yes, CDMA is dead dead dead dead dead. The only places it survives are the USA, Canada, and parts of Asia...but Asia uses a different standard, and that standard is mutating into the W-CDMA/UMTS/3G GSM evolution.

It will take years, but Verizon and Sprint are on borrowed time. They need to evolve or perish.

With 3G GSM evolution, are you referring to "EDGE Evolution"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution#EDGE_Evolution


I continue to be completely dumbfounded as to the constant complaints about this carrier or that carrier,

They all suck! EQUALLY ;)

AT&T and Verizon suck equally, just in different areas. For example, AT&T sucks because of GSM having issues with building penetration (in some situations), while verizon (up until there recent announcement of opening there network) locks down certain phone features (bluetooth for example).

kingtj
Nov 29, 2007, 10:49 AM
Well, I'd hardly call the EDGE network "fast" ... but admittedly, it's not as bad as some people make it out to be. For years, I was stuck with "Smartphones" that basically connected with an internal dial-up modem connection ... so EDGE easily beats THAT experience.

I've also found that in some locations around town, EDGE seems really speedy, while other times, it's rather sluggish. All depends on which tower I happen to be connected to. Not sure if this is because AT&T only added more bandwidth to specific cell towers around here, or if it has to do with overall signal strength, or a combination of both.... but the experience is *radically* different depending on my location when I try using EDGE.


meh. good news i guess. i've actually been surprised at how fast the EDGE network actually is.


chase :apple:



buying a 24" imac in 2 weeks :D

compuguy1088
Nov 29, 2007, 10:50 AM
Well, I'd hardly call the EDGE network "fast" ... but admittedly, it's not as bad as some people make it out to be. For years, I was stuck with "Smartphones" that basically connected with an internal dial-up modem connection ... so EDGE easily beats THAT experience.

I've also found that in some locations around town, EDGE seems really speedy, while other times, it's rather sluggish. All depends on which tower I happen to be connected to. Not sure if this is because AT&T only added more bandwidth to specific cell towers around here, or if it has to do with overall signal strength, or a combination of both.... but the experience is *radically* different depending on my location when I try using EDGE.

On my campus, I've gotten around 190 Kbits/sec, though the tower is on campus (an old Cell One tower) and very close.

SRSound
Nov 29, 2007, 10:55 AM
Well shoot - I was planning on buying one this weekend and the "need-the-newest-and-best-thing" part of me just isnt going to let that happen anymore :(

Stridder44
Nov 29, 2007, 11:01 AM
You'll be waiting a long, long time. Prob. Never. CDMA is a dying standard as Verizon's partner has already stated that the next gen 4g? is going to ditch CDMA unless I am mistaken.


Exactly. CDMA works alright for now, but you'd have to be blind to think it has and future in mobile phones.

wizard
Nov 29, 2007, 11:01 AM
Reading some of these comments make me realize why Apple is so secretive of future products. Already we have had several people swear off iPhone buying till the next generation comes. Can't imagine that Steve is very happy at this moment.

In the case of the iPhone I don't really think it matters. For the vast majority of the users out there EDGE works fine. Further this just means that iPhone #1 can be sold at a lower price level. I see the current iPhone as being marketable for a very long rime as long as they keep up grading the flash storage.


As far as 3G goes. Meh. I would rather have GPS and more storage space. 3 G is far from ubiquitous here in the states and certainly not around where i live. It would be nice i gues, just make sure it doesn't affect battery life.

I'm with you on the storage space and flip flop on GPS. Frankly I'd rather that Apple finish the OS so that BlueTooth is all there. Then we could have our choice of BlueTooth GPS units and other BlueTooth devices. For GPS I freely admit that a built in Radio is better, but just want to point out that a finished OS offers up a lot of possibilities. My fear with GPS is that we end up with a half baked implementation just so it can be stuffed into the current form factor. I'd rather see a lager device that comfortably implements a good GPS radio (and provides a larger screen).

As to battery life I don't think there is a way around that. What Apple really needs with respect to this is an iPhone with a replaceable battery pack. This would vastly improve the attractiveness of the iPhone in the business world.

In a sense though you are right, 3G really doesn't offer up a lot and frankly has negatives at the moment. Features other than 3G have to be considered far more important.

Dave

QCassidy352
Nov 29, 2007, 11:09 AM
That's great news, but doesn't help us Denver folk since AT&T doesn't have 3g active here yet.

Boo

They'll be rolling it out to more and more places, and the fact that the iphone (one of the hottest phones in the US) will be going 3G probably indicates that they have good plans in that regard.

I'm far more interested in apple bringing out another iPhone product (nano-type) than an upgrade to the existing iPhone.

I too would love such a product. And then, make it compatible with the nike+ system and presto! I'm down to a single device (from iphone + nano)!

Rojo
Nov 29, 2007, 11:09 AM
I could care less about 3G, more storage space, or GPS. I'm holding out for a higher megapixel camera! Then I can TRULY have just one device in my pocket for everything. (Yeah I know the camera's decent, for a phone -- but I need something just a little bit better).

fastlane1588
Nov 29, 2007, 11:14 AM
it cant be that far off. apple knows the cell phone market is a quickly changing market and apple wants to be on top. in order to do that they have to have provide some sort of update every 6 or 8 months. look at what they already upgraded. the original iphone was 4 gb with a plastic screen. they already upgraded it once to 8gb and a glass screen. that 6-8 month time period is comming around again and its about time they come out with something to put them back ahead of all the other cell phones out there.

like apple said by the time the other guys try to match their products apple is already 3 steps ahead. and now people are getting to the point where they are somewhat matching the iphone, meaning right now apple is 3 steps ahead. Id say by spring of 08.

ks-man
Nov 29, 2007, 11:15 AM
Reading some of these comments make me realize why Apple is so secretive of future products. Already we have had several people swear off iPhone buying till the next generation comes.
Can't imagine that Steve is very happy at this moment.


Why isn't Steve very happy?

1) His stock is virtually at an all time high (probably something like 1500% higher than when he took over in 96.
2) He was rated the most powerful business person in America by Fortune.
3) Apple is viewed by the world as the company that sets the standard for technological innovation.
4) Mac market share has doubled in the past year and is growing rapidly.
5) His arch-enemy (Msoft) is now entering businesses to try and take on Apple and failing (that's debatable).
6) He is getting very rich during all of this (see number 1).

I think Steve is incredibly happy.

compuguy1088
Nov 29, 2007, 11:16 AM
Last edited by Mitthrawnuruodo : Today at 12:00 PM. Reason: Merging posts... and removing quoted image... tsk-tsk-tsk...

Oi, I was merging my posts via edit for everything else, though for these two posts, it was a simple mistake. Because there is no option to delete the post, I just left it there than have a post saying "nm, delete this".

wizard
Nov 29, 2007, 11:17 AM
I've also found that in some locations around town, EDGE seems really speedy, while other times, it's rather sluggish. All depends on which tower I happen to be connected to. Not sure if this is because AT&T only added more bandwidth to specific cell towers around here, or if it has to do with overall signal strength, or a combination of both.... but the experience is *radically* different depending on my location when I try using EDGE.

Edge is networking and just like wired networking all of the above are possibilities when it comes to performance slow downs. That is your connection may be to a tower with a heavy load of data traffic, it might have older radio and router hardware, a connection to the net might be slow, and other normal networking issues. That doesn't even take into consideration the RF issues. Here your distance does make a difference, the type and age of the tower radio makes a difference, local noise and interference makes a difference. Basically every ting that ever impacted radio communications impacts cell networking.

This is one reason I'm not all that excited about 3G vs Edge. Sure the speed is better at times but you still have to be able to actually get a connection. Even if you are able to establish a connection you need to have one of high enough quality to enable the fastest rates. I just don't see 3G as something to get all worked up about, it still won't come close to a good WiFi connection.


Dave

neven
Nov 29, 2007, 11:19 AM
Reading some of these comments make me realize why Apple is so secretive of future products. Already we have had several people swear off iPhone buying till the next generation comes. Can't imagine that Steve is very happy at this moment.

This can't be repeated enough: the impression you get from these forums is nothing like what the consumer market out there thinks.

When Apple announced they would switch to Intel CPUs, guess what the forums were full of? "You'd have to be crazy to buy a PPC machine now! They won't sell a single one until next year!"

And guess what happened? Apple sold more PPC machines than ever before.

The typical consumer doesn't read these forums, doesn't read ANY rumor forums, doesn't know, and doesn't care. You realize you can go out and sell a three-year old G4 PowerBook for $1,000 to a very happy buyer today, right?

This PC-like obsession with the latest bullet points is really juvenile.

Plutonius
Nov 29, 2007, 11:20 AM
I would imagine they would have an agreement when it came to announcing new iPhones. To me this speaks to an iPhone in early 2008 as you pointed out it would be crazy to say this and release it in October.

EDGE and 3G or just 3G?

There will most likely be two models. The 3G will probably have a slightly larger form factor and increased price tag.

AliensAreFuzzy
Nov 29, 2007, 11:21 AM
Come on CDMA version with EV-DO. I want an iPhone on Alltel!
[/wishful thinking]

compuguy1088
Nov 29, 2007, 11:24 AM
Come on CDMA version with EV-DO. I want an iPhone on Alltel!
[/wishful thinking]

I would dream on about that, its like a "whelk's chances in a supernova" :D

Pressure
Nov 29, 2007, 11:33 AM
There will most likely be two models. The 3G will probably have a slightly larger form factor and increased price tag.

Uhm, why? My 3G SonyEricsson W880i is really small and thin...

Elrond39
Nov 29, 2007, 11:40 AM
In order for the iPhone to have any chance of success in some European countries, it actually needs to have 3G data. In the Netherlands, for example, EDGE doesn't exist anymore. So, it's either a 3G good experience, or crawling along at GPRS. Now you know why I haven't given a second thought to an unlocked European iPhone (courtesy of France or Germany) - well, that and the fact that they are very pricey.

More megapixels does not a better camera make. Flash, a better sensor and optical zoom, on the other hand, would qualify the iPhone as a reasonable "point-and-shoot" replacement - at least for simple, day-to-day snapshots of friends. Not to mention video.

More storage space is far from a bad thing. 16GB is a pretty sweet spot - more so than 8GB.

Wheeler
Nov 29, 2007, 11:42 AM
That's great news, but doesn't help us Denver folk since AT&T doesn't have 3g active here yet.

Boo

Check out the 3g coverage map for Denver- http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/
Denver is now 3g- guess as of last week.

This sux, my iphone is freakin awesome but announcements like this only make me want the next gen even more. As far as "you dont need 3g"- we are only at the beginning stages of the iphone and what it can do. Give it a year and there will be some amazing apps out that will make u want all the kbps' you can get (think when soemone ring your door bell a video feed of them pops up on your phone!)

Anyways I read somewhere Apple announced 3g 2ndGen iPhone in the FIRST Q of 2008, is that BS? And do you thing they will just add 3g to the same design, or can we hope for a true 2nd gen rework?

compuguy1088
Nov 29, 2007, 11:45 AM
In order for the iPhone to have any chance of success in some European countries, it actually needs to have 3G data. In the Netherlands, for example, EDGE doesn't exist anymore. So, it's either a 3G good experience, or crawling along at GPRS. Now you know why I haven't given a second thought to an unlocked European iPhone (courtesy of France or Germany) - well, that and the fact that they are very pricey.

More megapixels does not a better camera make. Flash, a better sensor and optical zoom, on the other hand, would qualify the iPhone as a reasonable "point-and-shoot" replacement - at least for simple, day-to-day snapshots of friends. Not to mention video.

More storage space is far from a bad thing. 16GB is a pretty sweet spot - more so than 8GB.

In europe this is a more critical feature, though the iPhone initally was launched as a US product, where AT&T 3g coverage is only around certain areas. In the DC area, 3g coverage only goes so far out, so if your in a neighboring county, no 3g for you....

crackermac
Nov 29, 2007, 11:48 AM
To the people waiting for the 3G phones (or other capability)...

If you always wait for the next greatest thing, you would never buy anything. If you always want the latest and greatest then I hope you have a big pay check and a nice wife (or husband) that doesn't mind you spending many hundreds every other month on gadgets. The next iPhone will come out with 16GB. People will bitch and moan that it doesn't have 32GB. Then the next one will come out at 32GB and people will bitch because it doesn't cure cancer. Get used to it.

If you want to wait on buying a phone because of 3Gish capability, wait for the 700MHz to come across. I was working on a project with a company where we were getting 1.5megs throughout our municipality to the end user. It was a proof of concept on what you can do with this 700. That's probably 3-4 years out and will only get better My point is, do you want to wait for that too?

Much Ado
Nov 29, 2007, 11:48 AM
This is not the sort of rumor we need going into Macworld.

Please don't expect this at Macworld... :mad:

miketcool
Nov 29, 2007, 11:48 AM
Now I just need T-Mobile to switch on their 3G and then you might see me replace me SE 800i with an iPhone next year...

TimJim
Nov 29, 2007, 12:08 PM
a CDMA iPhone would be awesome, but probably wont happen...

GoodWatch
Nov 29, 2007, 12:14 PM
To the people waiting for the 3G phones (or other capability)...

If you always wait for the next greatest thing, you would never buy anything. If you always want the latest and greatest then I hope you have a big pay check and a nice wife (or husband) that doesn't mind you spending many hundreds every other month on gadgets. The next iPhone will come out with 16GB. People will bitch and moan that it doesn't have 32GB. Then the next one will come out at 32GB and people will bitch because it doesn't cure cancer. Get used to it.

If you want to wait on buying a phone because of 3Gish capability, wait for the 700MHz to come across. I was working on a project with a company where we were getting 1.5megs throughout our municipality to the end user. It was a proof of concept on what you can do with this 700. That's probably 3-4 years out and will only get better My point is, do you want to wait for that too?

I don't have to wait, we already have HSPDA. 3G would be a step back. I wanted to add: with nation-wide coverage but in a country the size of a stamp that doesn't mean much :) :)

JFreak
Nov 29, 2007, 12:19 PM
If you always wait for the next greatest thing, you would never buy anything.

For those of us living in Europe, this lack of 3G chip is a deal-breaker for many. Apple has to upgrade its offering, it's not a question of waiting for the latest. It's a must.

chr1s60
Nov 29, 2007, 12:23 PM
I am guessing this 3G iPhone will look just the same as the current iPhone and contain the same features. If anything other than 3G is different I am guessing it will be storage. I see it being released between June and November of 2008, if this is actually true.

compuguy1088
Nov 29, 2007, 12:28 PM
For those of us living in Europe, this lack of 3G chip is a deal-breaker for many. Apple has to upgrade its offering, it's not a question of waiting for the latest. It's a must.

Though there is the inital factor that the iPhone was released initially in the US for a US carrier (AT&T). There is the possibility that 3g capability (besides the batter life issue) was a forethought from the lack of real coverage in the US (especially in Virginia :().

takao
Nov 29, 2007, 12:29 PM
To the people waiting for the 3G phones (or other capability)...

If you always wait for the next greatest thing, you would never buy anything.

next greatest thing ? 3G is more in the "cutting edge.. in 2004" category

for a company who likes to boast about being 2 generations ahead that's quite some time behind (just like with MMS or video recording :rolleyes: )

compuguy1088
Nov 29, 2007, 12:33 PM
next greatest thing ? 3G is more in the "cutting edge.. in 2004" category

for a company who likes to boast about being 2 generations ahead that's quite some time behind (just like with MMS or video recording :rolleyes: )

That may be true in Europe, but the US is behind the times, just trying to catch up with the rest of the world. There is more land in the US than Europe, making it a tougher situation to upgrade the network to 3G

rekcart
Nov 29, 2007, 12:35 PM
edge isn't too bad but it lags sometimes. i'll just ask my parents to buy me the 3g one when it comes out then maybe i'll give my iphone to my lil bro. but at least we have 3g everyone in so cal

lazyrighteye
Nov 29, 2007, 12:41 PM
That's great news, but doesn't help us Denver folk since AT&T doesn't have 3g active here yet.

Boo

Actually, Denver DOES have a 3G AT&T network up and running very well.
It's just not public yet.
Slated for spring '08 launch.
I know a tech that works for AT&T here who also says the 3G iPhone will launch then as well. :)

ripkord
Nov 29, 2007, 12:43 PM
who in the UK apart from the apalling '3' have got a 3G network up and running and in a decent state? Thanks Steve, but ram it. TBQFH.

plumbingandtech
Nov 29, 2007, 12:44 PM
Actually, Denver DOES have a 3G AT&T network up and running very well.
It's just not public yet.
Slated for spring '08 launch.
I know a tech that works for AT&T here who also says the 3G iPhone will launch then as well. :)

I just checked my area in Los Angeles.

On launch there was NO 3G in my area (a nice and $$ area too.)

Now we are drenched in it.

What a diff a few months make. Looks like I will be upgraded my iphone for sure now.

lazyrighteye
Nov 29, 2007, 12:51 PM
I'd like to see if it get a form factor redesign..

I'd like to loose the scratch prone chrome ring in favor of the black bevel, like that of the Touch.
Also, make the back plate not as slick. Maybe some sort of thin, hard, rubberized compound - not unlike the skin of the black MacBooks.
Otherwise, pretty solid design.

gugy
Nov 29, 2007, 12:55 PM
I can careless for 3G, just increase the damn storage to 16gig and hopefully 32gig.
That's all I want

JFreak
Nov 29, 2007, 01:00 PM
I want 3G so that iPhones can actually be sold in Finland. It is not legal to implement subscription based sales on anything else but 3G phones.

CKtoph
Nov 29, 2007, 01:07 PM
Plans for using the faster 3G data connection in the iPhone have not been secret. Steve Jobs has stated (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/19/3g-iphone-in-the-works/) that a 3G iPhone is coming, but that the delay is due to excessive battery life consumption with existing 3G chipsets. The iPhone presently uses the EDGE network for its data connectivity.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/29/3g-iphone-due-in-2008/)

As several people have said so far, it's really no surprise. And it being no surprise at all, there should be no reason to be upset if you are a recent iPhone purchaser (such as myself). We purchased iPhones with EDGE fully knowing that soon enough there will be 3G phones rollin' out.

I'm perfectly content with Wifi and EDGE. I've run into a few slow spots at times when using EDGE and browsing image intensive pages, but I'm in a WiFi area 75-80% of the time anyway.

And also, I agree completely with those people who were mentioning the Asian markets and 3G compatibility. I'd assume that the 3G iPhone introduction will come in conjunction with or close to the introduction of the iPhone into the Asian marketplace.

afields
Nov 29, 2007, 01:21 PM
I'd like to see if it get a form factor redesign..

ummm. what?

spazattack674
Nov 29, 2007, 01:57 PM
im hoping by next year, they mean before or around June 2008, because that is when my T-Mobile contract expires. Does anyone have thoughts on when in 2008 one can expect the 3G iPhone?

FoxyKaye
Nov 29, 2007, 02:00 PM
Wasn't there some blip in the news a while back when the iPhone was first released that the chip inside has built-in 3G capability? Was this true? If so, might it be a relatively easy firmware/software update to enable it for existing customers? It wouldn't solve the battery concerns unless there was some sort of battery management software added on, I suppose.

Then again, if I know Apple, they'll force everyone to buy a new iPhone to upgrade to 3G.

Anyhow, it wouldn't surprise me if the 3G iPhone was formally announced at MWSF, even if it won't ship for a while. If battery technology really is the limiting factor, surely it will have evolved another generation in the past year.

I'm imagining that the current iPhone's hardware configuration has been fairly static since January of 2007, or even late 2006. 3G might happen faster now that the basic form-factor exists and it's just a matter of select hardware upgradeson the inside, but this is just a guess.

farmboy
Nov 29, 2007, 02:02 PM
WOW! Thanks so much apple, welcome to last year!


3G is not widespread in the US. The US is MUCH larger than UK or Europe as a whole. Apple was correct in choosing EDGE for THIS market. Your mileage may vary.

spydr
Nov 29, 2007, 02:15 PM
Last week we drove around quite a bit (~200 miles) in rural PA. I have to say, I was impressed with the coverage AT&T had there—our iPhone was on 4 or 5 bars throughout and everywhere with fast EDGE signal! The data speeds were very good and was using google maps all the way. I am so glad we didn't wait forever for a 3G phone. When it comes, we may pick up a second one—till then, I find the EDGE iPhone incredibly sufficient for our needs. By the time 3G comes, I am sure 3.5G will be in the works. Waiters will keep waiting—while Users, get one and use it now—return it if you don't find it useful to your needs.

Rodimus Prime
Nov 29, 2007, 02:33 PM
Wasn't there some blip in the news a while back when the iPhone was first released that the chip inside has built-in 3G capability? Was this true? If so, might it be a relatively easy firmware/software update to enable it for existing customers? It wouldn't solve the battery concerns unless there was some sort of battery management software added on, I suppose.

Then again, if I know Apple, they'll force everyone to buy a new iPhone to upgrade to 3G.

Anyhow, it wouldn't surprise me if the 3G iPhone was formally announced at MWSF, even if it won't ship for a while. If battery technology really is the limiting factor, surely it will have evolved another generation in the past year.

I'm imagining that the current iPhone's hardware configuration has been fairly static since January of 2007, or even late 2006. 3G might happen faster now that the basic form-factor exists and it's just a matter of select hardware upgradeson the inside, but this is just a guess.


Not about the chip and g3 but if so it would be like apple to force people to buy a new phone to allow for them to use G3. Kind of like when they added 2 finger scrolling to their laptop line. The iBooks and the Powerbooks at the time already out there had the hardware to do it. Just apple would not give them to software it needed to allow it (which lead to a lot of people just hacking there ibooks and powerbooks)

NewSc2
Nov 29, 2007, 02:47 PM
I don't know what kind of blazing-fast EDGE you guys are running on, cuz my iPhone data speeds SUCK.

Sure, it's fine for checking stocks and weather, but if I want to check my bank account statement or navigate to an item on Best Buy... good luck. I've waited over a minute for some pages to load, and most don't load for 30 seconds or more.

In fact, I'll try opening up ebay.com right now. I have 3 bars service.

30 seconds in -- nothing
1 minute in -- some graphics appear, most menus can be typed on
1 minute 30 seconds -- more graphics are up, still not fully loaded
1 minute 45 seconds -- basically fully loaded, still loading something
2 minutes -- still loading something, but at this point the site is fully viewable

I don't know about you, but waiting 1 minute to see half a web page (a web page I use quite often) is pretty lame. I can't wait for 3g speeds.

NewSc2
Nov 29, 2007, 02:48 PM
3G is not widespread in the US. The US is MUCH larger than UK or Europe as a whole. Apple was correct in choosing EDGE for THIS market. Your mileage may vary.

Most (all?) phone that do 3G also do EDGE.

kddpop
Nov 29, 2007, 03:01 PM
the original iphone was 4 gb with a plastic screen.

all iphones have had a glass screen.

~kyle

joeshell383
Nov 29, 2007, 03:10 PM
Sometimes it can be an advantage to live in a country where the launch of the first gen iPhone isn't even planned yet! :) The prices may have come down a bit as well then. ;)

No. The people in the countries that currently have the iPhone can choose to buy the current model, the future model, or both.

You, and the other people in countries that don't have the iPhone, have only one choice.

Whatever makes you feel better...

FleurDuMal
Nov 29, 2007, 03:13 PM
No. The people in the countries that currently have the iPhone can choose to buy the current model, the future model, or both.

You, and the other people in countries that don't have the iPhone, have only one choice.

Whatever makes you feel better...

But for some people, the compulsion to buy new Apple stuff almost takes the act out of the sphere of free choice ;)

nxent
Nov 29, 2007, 03:22 PM
finally... people can stop whining.

hexcalibur
Nov 29, 2007, 03:34 PM
Actually, there are 53 Tuesdays in 2008. And we can be pretty sure they won't announce on Jan. 1st or Nov. 4th, and one of the Tuesdays will actually be the BIG DAY, so that's only 50 chances to be disappointed!

For you, Lord Patton, the glass isn't even half-full. It's right up to the brim with sparkling champagne.

neilc001
Nov 29, 2007, 03:55 PM
I am a fan of Apple products, and as a professional musician I would not dream of considering any other operating system for computer-based recording and sequencing. My smartphone that I currently use is a Palm Treo with Sprint service. I've liked Sprint for the (superior?) 3G data speeds and for the United States coverage (though I now understand that it's GSM, not CDMA, which is widely used around the world). I'm happy to hear about Apple's intentions for making the iPhone operate at higher data speeds, and now there's only one thing keeping me from buying a cool new iPhone...

The thing keeping me from an iPhone is the interference that GSM phones produce. From what I've read, I understand that GSM technology transmits voice and media data on short, intense radio frequency pulses. Unfortunately these pulses transfer into equipment such as musical instrument amplifiers and recording equipment circuitry where they become audible. I've heard that recognizable little buzz time and time again in the studio and on stage. In an industry where one needs to be accessible at all times, "just turn your phone off or put it in the next room when you're working" really isn't a suitable answer, but it may be the only answer if I switch to an iPhone.

Does anyone have any helpful insight?

Long time reader, first time poster,
-neil

Laglorden
Nov 29, 2007, 04:07 PM
i know the benefit is 600kbps+
but is it really needed?

I think it's 7,2 Mbit currently actually (at least that what's said in the advertising) but I guess it will double again or something in 2008?

morespce54
Nov 29, 2007, 04:11 PM
...It will take years, but Verizon and Sprint are on borrowed time. They need to evolve or perish.

Perish!.. Perish!.. Perish!.. ;):D

swagi
Nov 29, 2007, 04:37 PM
Reading some of these comments make me realize why Apple is so secretive of future products. Already we have had several people swear off iPhone buying till the next generation comes. Can't imagine that Steve is very happy at this moment.

As far as 3G goes. Meh. I would rather have GPS and more storage space. 3 G is far from ubiquitous here in the states and certainly not around where i live. It would be nice i gues, just make sure it doesn't affect battery life.

Yeah, just swallow those little marketing bits, Steve throws at you. Yeah, sure, 3G kills battery life. That's why nearly every phone on the planet EXCEPT THE TREMENDOUS iPHONE has horrible battery life.

Honestly, I saw the iPhone in flesh here in Germany. And all I can say is that I'm not impressed. It's an ugly big brick! There are plenty phones on the market, that are equally slim/slimmer, smaller, more sexy and more functional.

Don't get me wrong. I love Apple products. But this bloody phone hype is killing me. If you like it, that's fine with me. But don't act like it's the Jesus Phone.

archonium
Nov 29, 2007, 05:31 PM
I don't know what kind of blazing-fast EDGE you guys are running on, cuz my iPhone data speeds SUCK.

Sure, it's fine for checking stocks and weather, but if I want to check my bank account statement or navigate to an item on Best Buy... good luck. I've waited over a minute for some pages to load, and most don't load for 30 seconds or more.

In fact, I'll try opening up ebay.com right now. I have 3 bars service.

30 seconds in -- nothing
1 minute in -- some graphics appear, most menus can be typed on
1 minute 30 seconds -- more graphics are up, still not fully loaded
1 minute 45 seconds -- basically fully loaded, still loading something
2 minutes -- still loading something, but at this point the site is fully viewable

I don't know about you, but waiting 1 minute to see half a web page (a web page I use quite often) is pretty lame. I can't wait for 3g speeds.

You maybe in an area where EDGE isn't strong. EDGE speed is not determined by how many bars you have. Unfortunately the iPhone only shows you an "E" as a representation that EDGE is present but does not indicate the strength.

I got the regular eBay page in 1:35
U should probably try iphone.ebay.com, it only took 12 - 15 secs.

GoodWatch
Nov 29, 2007, 05:42 PM
No. The people in the countries that currently have the iPhone can choose to buy the current model, the future model, or both.

You, and the other people in countries that don't have the iPhone, have only one choice.

Whatever makes you feel better...

Choosing the future model? The model that isn't there yet? Following your logic I am able to choose the model of 2010. And why would anyone care buy both the 'old' and 'new' model? Being just an earthworm, I need some explanation here. Throw me a bone, so to speak :rolleyes:

winterspan
Nov 29, 2007, 06:17 PM
Oh well, I won't switch from Verizon to spotty AT&T no matter what. Please Jobs come out with a CDMA version!!!!!!!!!!! Please!!!!!!!!!!:(

No kidding! I just went and played with an iPhone. So Amazing!! but GOD ****** I'm never going to switch to AT&T. they have absolutely terrible service in the west, especially where I live (ID/WA border). A 3G/EVDO CMDA phone on Verizon or sprint would be perfect. (yes I hate verizon.. but it has the best service by far). It is such BS that apple pulled this exclusivity crap.

Alas, there is a *small* shred of hope with apple bringing a 3G CDMA iPhone to Japan/South Korea/Brazil or anywhere else that uses CDMA, although I'm not sure what band/frequency those countries use or if their CDMA implementation is different than Verizon/Sprint. Anyone know?

winterspan
Nov 29, 2007, 06:22 PM
no 3G within 100 miles of me, bring on the better battery life with EDGE, screw 3G.

Do you mean no 3G within 100 miles or no *AT&T/HSDPA* 3G within 100 miles? Unless you are in the middle of BFE, I bet you have access to Verizon EVDO 3G. I live in rural/suburban ID and we have great 3G coverage.

Wharrgarbl
Nov 29, 2007, 06:44 PM
File this under "most obvious headline of 2007"

Roller
Nov 29, 2007, 06:45 PM
Honestly, I saw the iPhone in flesh here in Germany. And all I can say is that I'm not impressed. It's an ugly big brick! There are plenty phones on the market, that are equally slim/slimmer, smaller, more sexy and more functional.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess - I think that the minimalist look of the iPhone beats all the phones that are covered with buttons and keyboards, but that's my opinion.

And why is smaller better? The tinier the screen, the fewer pixels you can view at any time, unless the display resolution increases to compensate, making the screen unreadable.

winterspan
Nov 29, 2007, 06:51 PM
You'll be waiting a long, long time. Prob. Never. CDMA is a dying standard as Verizon's partner has already stated that the next gen 4g? is going to ditch CDMA unless I am mistaken.

Its official Verizon is going GSM, for their 4g network. Looks like CDMA is going the way of the caveman.
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Verizon-Wireless-Picks-100Mbps-LTE-89807
-neal

Why? CDMA is dead.

You guys are completely missing the point. I'ts not about CDMA itself, it's about Verizon and Sprint coverage. For now, CDMA is SURELY NOT DEAD. It will be when Verizon and Sprint move to WCDMA/LTE for their 4G networks, but for now, it is the best coverage by far in the United States. Nearly all city/suburban areas and many rural areas serviced by Verizon are running 3G EVDO/Rev.A. But it's not even about the 3G. For many, including myself, Verizon/Sprint CDMA is the *ONLY* decent coverage available. AT&T doesn't even cover 90% of my state. They have absolutely terrible service in the west, outside of the coastal cities. Look at the map.
Will it be much nicer when AT&T/Tmob/Sprint/Verizon are all running 4G compatible networks? Of course. But for now, Verizon's CDMA is the only real option for MANY people in the USA.



As far as 3G goes. Meh. I would rather have GPS and more storage space. 3 G is far from ubiquitous here in the states and certainly not around where i live. It would be nice i gues, just make sure it doesn't affect battery life.

3G is pointless, unless you are downloading 20 meg attachments (which I can guarantee you are not on your iPhone). EDGE is fast enough.

I dont know what the big deal for 3g is.

Why do people want 3g? Will you be able to download stuff into your iphone? i know the benefit is 600kbps+
but is it really needed? Faster internet browsing?
malls,cafes and anywhere you can think off have a hotspot network oepn.


Hahaha. You guys crack me up. "3G is pointless" "EDGE is fast enough" "use a hotspot". LOL.

First of all, for a large percentage of people, especially those outside major cities, Wifi hotspots are *not* an option most of the time. Even when you can find one, many of them are taking over by Tmobile or Boingo or some other provider and are $10/day or more.

Secondly, for the people who think 3G is "pointless"... Have you even used the service before? That's like saying Verizon FIOS internet service at 30Mbps is pointless, because crap 768kbps DSL is "fast enough". HA. Give me a break.. I just used an iPhone for the first time today at AT&T, and it took forever to load a webpage.

I know AT&T's HSDPA network sucks because it's only rolled out in a small % of their network... Hence the reason why I wish Verizon had picked up the iPhone. Their 3G EVDO is ubiquitous.

winterspan
Nov 29, 2007, 07:11 PM
To the people waiting for the 3G phones (or other capability)...

If you always wait for the next greatest thing, you would never buy anything. If you always want the latest and greatest then I hope you have a big pay check and a nice wife (or husband) that doesn't mind you spending many hundreds every other month on gadgets. The next iPhone will come out with 16GB. People will bitch and moan that it doesn't have 32GB. Then the next one will come out at 32GB and people will bitch because it doesn't cure cancer. Get used to it.

If you want to wait on buying a phone because of 3Gish capability, wait for the 700MHz to come across. I was working on a project with a company where we were getting 1.5megs throughout our municipality to the end user. It was a proof of concept on what you can do with this 700. That's probably 3-4 years out and will only get better My point is, do you want to wait for that too?

So in other words, you are saying I shouldn't wait for a 3G iphone, because if I always wait, I'll never buy anything. Then you tell me I should wait until a new 700 mhz network is finished in 4 years to get speeds I can get with a 3G iphone (1.5 mbps) which will be out in 4-6 months. but now you tell me your point of the post is so I should not wait.

my brain just exploded.

chicagostars
Nov 29, 2007, 07:23 PM
MacRumors poster: No 3G? The iPhone sux without it, I know even though I don't have one! I hate AT&T! Every other carrier's service and coverage is better, I know! Apple is mean because they don't want me to hack an iPhone. I hate them. I'm going to buy the latest Nokia phone and show them!!!

Steve Jobs: That's okay. We've got thousands of other people lining up for this one who don't even know what 3G is and who wouldn't even think of hacking their phone. Who the heck are you anyway? Wait . . . nevermind.

MacRumors poster: :mad::mad::mad:

trogdor!
Nov 29, 2007, 07:44 PM
Everyone keeps using the argument of using free hot spots..... Im sorry, but literally 95 percent of the hot spots i run into are these dumb tmobile/whatever wireless company charge to use the network. Free ones are hard to find sometimes even in large cities.

Cintos
Nov 29, 2007, 07:51 PM
MacRumors poster: No 3G? The iPhone sux without it, I know even though I don't have one! I hate AT&T! Every other carrier's service and coverage is better, I know! Apple is mean because they don't want me to hack an iPhone. I hate them. I'm going to buy the latest Nokia phone and show them!!!

Steve Jobs: That's okay. We've got thousands of other people lining up for this one who don't even know what 3G is and who wouldn't even think of hacking their phone. Who the heck are you anyway? Wait . . . nevermind.

MacRumors poster: :mad::mad::mad:

Early Adopter First mac in 1989 ($1200 for a 20Meg Drive - yes MEG) Technologist User: I could not care less about the bleeding edge user - let him buy something else. For the rest of us, it's the iPhone. For my use, the iPhone is spectacular. I have a VZ 3G broadband card in my laptop if I need to get into complex web sites. Phone, photos (beautiful!), iPod, videos (woow!), mail, Google Maps, and the "news" and stock trading spectrum of the web through safari are spectacular. I find myself virtually NEVER luging out the laptop and firing up the 3G just to peruse a needed data set - the iPhone has it loaded well before then - assuming that the EVDO is actually working there.

Just ran back and forth from NYC to Rochester, and the AT&T service was fine all along; the NYS Thruway has wifi at the service areas - the iPhone automatically jumps to them. My take on VZ is that while CDMA has a significant (!!) coverage advantage over GSM, to their financial advantage VZ has simply been able to install fewer towers; net result is similar service.

The ticket will be the next gen LTE kit; I can wait two years...

Snide
Nov 29, 2007, 08:44 PM
I made this post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4558371#post4558371) in the iPhone Hacks and Apps forum (tethering thread),
and I think it's relevant to this one as well. Note that I'm talking about
sites that are well-optimized (as most are, such as MacRumors). :)

LoganT
Nov 29, 2007, 08:55 PM
no 3G within 100 miles of me, bring on the better battery life with EDGE, screw 3G.

You do know that 3G is backwards compatible with EDGE?

twoodcc
Nov 29, 2007, 08:59 PM
good. i'm not surprised at all. i just wonder what other features the next iPhone will have

Oneness
Nov 29, 2007, 08:59 PM
It exists vastly in any place that matters. :p

Yes, but I don't just sit and stay in 'any place that matters'. Some of us do actually get out of the city limits quite regularly and I would like my $600 phone to work everywhere I go.

You do know that 3G is backwards compatible with EDGE?

Ooppss.... Forget my last post. Sorry for being sarcastic iblue.:o

LoganT
Nov 29, 2007, 09:23 PM
If you always wait for the next greatest thing, you would never buy anything.

See, I don't understand this logic. Right now the 1st-Gen iPhone is out right now. I will wait until the 2nd-Gen iPhone comes out to buy it. When the 2nd-Gen comes out I'm not going to skip it and wait until the 3rd-Gen comes out and so on.

LoganT
Nov 29, 2007, 09:39 PM
U should probably try iphone.ebay.com, it only took 12 - 15 secs.

That defeats the purpose of an iPhone though. "Remember it's not the mobile internet or the kinda of sorta looks like the internet, internet. It's just the internet on your iPhone..."

callmemike20
Nov 29, 2007, 09:43 PM
By looking at this map, it seems as if 3G ends about 20 feet into my back yard. I guess I will be able to use it when im sitting on my deck in the summertime.

This should come as no surprise, as apple has indicated that a 3G is in the works.

For me, it matters not. I live in a rural area which won't see 3G for many years. EDGE reception, however, is quite good and very useful. True, I prefer to use Safari with Wifi over EDGE, but Google Maps, Weather, Mail, etc all work pretty darn well with EDGE.

I realize that the majority of the US population lives near or in our 50-100 or so major metropolitan areas, but for those of us in more rural areas, this is a non-issue. Look at the coverage maps for your area... can you use 3G?

http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/

I'm guessing most of you can, but certainly not everyone.

I'm far more interested in apple bringing out another iPhone product (nano-type) than an upgrade to the existing iPhone.

bretm
Nov 29, 2007, 10:22 PM
You'll be waiting a long, long time. Prob. Never. CDMA is a dying standard as Verizon's partner has already stated that the next gen 4g? is going to ditch CDMA unless I am mistaken.

And because Apple has 4 1/2 years left in it's exclusive contract with AT&T.

That defeats the purpose of an iPhone though. "Remember it's not the mobile internet or the kinda of sorta looks like the internet, internet. It's just the internet on your iPhone..."

True, but designing an interface that exclusively matches the iPhone interface and size is actually a step up from a generic web site.

Google defaults to it's mobile version, but can be changed. The mobile version sucks. But I'd love it if they came out with a iPhone version. Mostly becuase of the text size and need to zoom/double click.

Yes, but I don't just sit and stay in 'any place that matters'. Some of us do actually get out of the city limits quite regularly and I would like my $600 phone to work everywhere I go.

Geez, I just visited a 250 acre farm in Unity, Wisconsin for crying out loud. Look it up. It's in the middle of nowhere (Wisconsin) AT&T had full signal at all times. The town has like 43 residents. What else do ya want?

good. i'm not surprised at all. i just wonder what other features the next iPhone will have

They're still wavering on including copy and paste.

Everyone keeps using the argument of using free hot spots..... Im sorry, but literally 95 percent of the hot spots i run into are these dumb tmobile/whatever wireless company charge to use the network. Free ones are hard to find sometimes even in large cities.

In ATL it's just about every bookstore, coffee shop, restaurant, bar, whatever. I even get them in doctors offices and sitting at a stop light (from someone's unprotected house).

DiamondMac
Nov 30, 2007, 12:58 AM
The first few weeks I was content with Edge but lately it has really been getting on my nerves as it is just downright ridiculously slow to the point of just not even getting me to where I need to be.

I live in a 3G area so bring it on and hopefully I can upgrade :o

needthephone
Nov 30, 2007, 02:43 AM
Outside the US any mobile phone has to be 3g minimum to be taken seriously. I doubt if you can buy a new non 3g phone in Aus for example. I wouldn't buy the iphone as it is-it is a phone after all and it should run on the most up to date networks. We(us apple lovers who think eveything apple do is right) can protest all we like, simple fact most people won't take it serously until its 3g and even less seriously because of the price they are charging for what many people see as an out of date P H O N E. I noticed that for the UK launch all the media picked upon was the lack of 3g.If I wanted multitouch I would get a cheap crappy Nokia on a nothing per month 3g plan and a touch and keep them in the same pocket.

We can argue until we are blue in the face and apple can put as much spin on it as they like, that EDGE is as good or nearly as good as 3g. Its a marketing spec thing. People know that anything less than 3g is obsolete, out of date, living in the past.

I love the iphone but it has a serious achilles heale and credibilty problem by not being 3g.

TurboSC
Nov 30, 2007, 02:56 AM
The first few weeks I was content with Edge but lately it has really been getting on my nerves as it is just downright ridiculously slow to the point of just not even getting me to where I need to be.

I live in a 3G area so bring it on and hopefully I can upgrade :o

yea i hope they offer some sort of upgrade plan for people with iPhones now. that would be awfully nice...

I'm eagerly waiting for more information.

Phil A.
Nov 30, 2007, 05:35 AM
Outside the US any mobile phone has to be 3g minimum to be taken seriously. I doubt if you can buy a new non 3g phone in Aus for example. I wouldn't buy the iphone as it is-it is a phone after all and it should run on the most up to date networks. We(us apple lovers who think eveything apple do is right) can protest all we like, simple fact most people won't take it serously until its 3g and even less seriously because of the price they are charging for what many people see as an out of date P H O N E. I noticed that for the UK launch all the media picked upon was the lack of 3g.If I wanted multitouch I would get a cheap crappy Nokia on a nothing per month 3g plan and a touch and keep them in the same pocket.

We can argue until we are blue in the face and apple can put as much spin on it as they like, that EDGE is as good or nearly as good as 3g. Its a marketing spec thing. People know that anything less than 3g is obsolete, out of date, living in the past.

I love the iphone but it has a serious achilles heale and credibilty problem by not being 3g.

Blackberries (possibly the most successful new brand in recent years, at least in Europe) are not 3G...

elcid
Nov 30, 2007, 07:27 AM
Outside the US any mobile phone has to be 3g minimum to be taken seriously.

I believe it is selling fine in Europe.

crackermac
Nov 30, 2007, 07:59 AM
So in other words, you are saying I shouldn't wait for a 3G iphone, because if I always wait, I'll never buy anything. Then you tell me I should wait until a new 700 mhz network is finished in 4 years to get speeds I can get with a 3G iphone (1.5 mbps) which will be out in 4-6 months. but now you tell me your point of the post is so I should not wait.

my brain just exploded.

Perhaps I didn't word it correctly. Right now, 3G is the rage for some. Now, in Feb, some company buys up the block of 700 and annouces what their plans are, a nationwide wi-fi. Everyone now gets excited about this because of the blazing fast speeds but it requires a special chip in the phones that are due out in a year. Do you wait for that chip?

Say a 2nd Gen iPhone is due out in June. A month goes buy and you haven't taken the plunge yet and rumors appear that the next iPhone is supposed to support WiMax. Now what?

I guess what I'm getting at is, at what point do you stop waiting for the next technology?

glennyboiwpg
Nov 30, 2007, 08:10 AM
Perhaps I didn't word it correctly. Right now, 3G is the rage for some. Now, in Feb, some company buys up the block of 700 and annouces what their plans are, a nationwide wi-fi. Everyone now gets excited about this because of the blazing fast speeds but it requires a special chip in the phones that are due out in a year. Do you wait for that chip?

Say a 2nd Gen iPhone is due out in June. A month goes buy and you haven't taken the plunge yet and rumors appear that the next iPhone is supposed to support WiMax. Now what?

I guess what I'm getting at is, at what point do you stop waiting for the next technology?

Exactly... The way I see it is... when you want something, do the research and when you think the technology is where you want it to be, then you go and buy it... once you buy it, you don't go looking for trouble... don't go looking at best buy, dont' go scouring the net looking for that product you bought because you will ALWAYS find that in six months it will be cheaper, smaller, better, faster, etc.

Do the research, buy when YOU are comfrontable with the purchase and then get on with your life.

End of story.

takao
Nov 30, 2007, 08:28 AM
I believe it is selling fine in Europe.

it's not even out in whole europe nor are there actual numbers around last time i checked

edit: according to rumors there have been around 15.000 to 18.000 sold so far in germany

bytethese
Nov 30, 2007, 10:01 AM
I just cracked the glass on my iPhone a few weeks ago. Thankfully the device still works but I heard it's $250 to fix. I'd rather put $250 towards a 3G iPhone, with hopefully more capacity. :) Is it Jan 8th yet?

crackermac
Nov 30, 2007, 10:10 AM
Blackberries (possibly the most successful new brand in recent years, at least in Europe) are not 3G...

I never noticed, but I couldn't find one Blackberry that is 3G. I don't know what percentage Blackberries are compared to other "internet phones", but I'd say that a Blackberry is extremely popular. I don't see many articles or people saying they suck or their holding off until a 3G version.

plumbingandtech
Nov 30, 2007, 10:20 AM
You guys are completely missing the point. I'ts not about CDMA itself, it's about Verizon and Sprint coverage. For now, CDMA is SURELY NOT DEAD.

The point is, as Bretm mentioned above,

A) Apple is on a contract with ATT for 4 more years or so.
B) CDMA is dying and will be switched over to a new network 4g? by the time the contract is over with ATT.

So C) as the orginal poster asked when an Verizon iphone?

Well no one will be "hearing him now" on an iPhone on the Verizon network, since it won't be coming to his network in the foreseeable future.

crackermac
Nov 30, 2007, 11:21 AM
http://blog.wired.com/business/2007/11/verizon-chooses.html

So we can probably see an iPhone working on Verizon in 2009-2010.

Manatee
Nov 30, 2007, 11:38 AM
I'm in. I'll pay the $599 (again), and maybe I'll get lucky and get a $100 credit (again). :)

Now that the iPhone can have all sorts of great 3rd party apps, high-speed data will make it even more wonderful.

CKtoph
Nov 30, 2007, 12:50 PM
Wasn't there some blip in the news a while back when the iPhone was first released that the chip inside has built-in 3G capability? Was this true? If so, might it be a relatively easy firmware/software update to enable it for existing customers? It wouldn't solve the battery concerns unless there was some sort of battery management software added on, I suppose.

Then again, if I know Apple, they'll force everyone to buy a new iPhone to upgrade to 3G.

Anyhow, it wouldn't surprise me if the 3G iPhone was formally announced at MWSF, even if it won't ship for a while. If battery technology really is the limiting factor, surely it will have evolved another generation in the past year.

I'm imagining that the current iPhone's hardware configuration has been fairly static since January of 2007, or even late 2006. 3G might happen faster now that the basic form-factor exists and it's just a matter of select hardware upgradeson the inside, but this is just a guess.

This would be great if it were close to possible. But I just don't see the plausibility of it =/ I could dream :o

gauriemma
Nov 30, 2007, 01:58 PM
I realize that the majority of the US population lives near or in our 50-100 or so major metropolitan areas, but for those of us in more rural areas, this is a non-issue. Look at the coverage maps for your area... can you use 3G?

http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/

But honestly, if you're in one of those areas that doesn't show up on that coverage map, shouldn't your first priority be getting—I don't know—running water and indoor toilets?

crackermac
Nov 30, 2007, 02:32 PM
But honestly, if you're in one of those areas that doesn't show up on that coverage map, shouldn't your first priority be getting—I don't know—running water and indoor toilets?

I'm at Virginia Tech and there's no 3G within about 60 miles. Winston-Salem, NC is the closest. Last I checked, we still had running water and indoor toilets.

GoodWatch
Nov 30, 2007, 03:47 PM
I never noticed, but I couldn't find one Blackberry that is 3G. I don't know what percentage Blackberries are compared to other "internet phones", but I'd say that a Blackberry is extremely popular. I don't see many articles or people saying they suck or their holding off until a 3G version.

8707g

ski1ski1
Nov 30, 2007, 04:25 PM
I never noticed, but I couldn't find one Blackberry that is 3G. I don't know what percentage Blackberries are compared to other "internet phones", but I'd say that a Blackberry is extremely popular. I don't see many articles or people saying they suck or their holding off until a 3G version.


Blackberry's claim to fame is email. And EDGE for email is sufficient. One of iPhone's selling points is Safari. But IMHO, Safari is almost useless on a EDGE connection. Waiting 30 to 60+ seconds to download a web page is too slow for me. Anyone who says EDGE is fine is in denial. But then again, I guess some people are perfectly fine with dial-up on their computer.

melchior
Nov 30, 2007, 04:34 PM
Blackberry rules by 'push' corporate e-mail, I have my work lotus notes coming through to my blackberry constantly. It sucks frankly, this age of 24-hr contact and responsibility.

I never noticed, but I couldn't find one Blackberry that is 3G. I don't know what percentage Blackberries are compared to other "internet phones", but I'd say that a Blackberry is extremely popular. I don't see many articles or people saying they suck or their holding off until a 3G version.

And to the people saying "blah blah blah - winge winge winge - there isn'tany 3g for 100 miles from my house - yada yada yada" it may have slipped your radar but asia/australia does not have the iphone yet, nor do a great many european countries. Finland may be familiar to some for their mobile phone fame. 3G GSM may be for the rest of the world...

What you should be hoping for is a 3G CDMA version of the iPhone. Fat chance.

ski1ski1
Nov 30, 2007, 04:51 PM
I never noticed, but I couldn't find one Blackberry that is 3G. I don't know what percentage Blackberries are compared to other "internet phones", but I'd say that a Blackberry is extremely popular. I don't see many articles or people saying they suck or their holding off until a 3G version.

You must not have looked hard. There are 3G (EVDO) Blackberries available at Verizon and Sprint.

needthephone
Nov 30, 2007, 04:57 PM
Yes for its main and first market (the US) no 3g is fine as 3g coverage doesn't sound extensive.

However for the rest of the world where 3g is de rigeur 3g IS A MUST.

I can see why the US users are saying we are whinging but facts are facts. 3g is a minimum requirement, like having 4 wheels on a car

ski1ski1
Nov 30, 2007, 05:03 PM
3g coverage doesn't sound extensive.


AT&T doesn't have extensive 3G coverage, but they do have 3G coverage in most major metropolitan areas.

calvy
Nov 30, 2007, 07:16 PM
AT&T doesn't have extensive 3G coverage, but they do have 3G coverage in most major metropolitan areas.

Plus they are constantly working to build up this footprint. Randall didn't say when in 2008. My guess it'll be November/Fall 2008, just before Christmas shopping season. Maybe Randall knows about this iPhone release because they've committed to making 3G more attractive with a larger footprint.

And I love all you people wishing for a CDMA iPhone when Verizon is dumping CDMA in the next few years. Gee, could this perhaps be the reason Verizon lost out on the contract?

SRSound
Nov 30, 2007, 07:29 PM
I am a fan of Apple products, and as a professional musician I would not dream of considering any other operating system for computer-based recording and sequencing. My smartphone that I currently use is a Palm Treo with Sprint service. I've liked Sprint for the (superior?) 3G data speeds and for the United States coverage (though I now understand that it's GSM, not CDMA, which is widely used around the world). I'm happy to hear about Apple's intentions for making the iPhone operate at higher data speeds, and now there's only one thing keeping me from buying a cool new iPhone...

The thing keeping me from an iPhone is the interference that GSM phones produce. From what I've read, I understand that GSM technology transmits voice and media data on short, intense radio frequency pulses. Unfortunately these pulses transfer into equipment such as musical instrument amplifiers and recording equipment circuitry where they become audible. I've heard that recognizable little buzz time and time again in the studio and on stage. In an industry where one needs to be accessible at all times, "just turn your phone off or put it in the next room when you're working" really isn't a suitable answer, but it may be the only answer if I switch to an iPhone.

Does anyone have any helpful insight?

Long time reader, first time poster,
-neil

we deal with this in the studio day in and day out - long story short, it doesnt affect the final product (nothing gets recorded to tape) - just shield the cable to the mains and you'll be fine.

megfilmworks
Nov 30, 2007, 07:42 PM
we deal with this in the studio day in and day out - long story short, it doesnt affect the final product (nothing gets recorded to tape) - just shield the cable to the mains and you'll be fine.
That's a risky scenario. How many times have you found phantom noise in a printmaster only to trace it back to a low level issue that leaked in via returns.
If the GSM burst gets into the effects units its printed no matter how you shield your busses. It also gets regularly transmitted on live tv when reporters have their GSM phone on them.

swagi
Nov 30, 2007, 07:59 PM
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess - I think that the minimalist look of the iPhone beats all the phones that are covered with buttons and keyboards, but that's my opinion.

And why is smaller better? The tinier the screen, the fewer pixels you can view at any time, unless the display resolution increases to compensate, making the screen unreadable.

The smaller and slimmer, the better it fits into my pocket. It's a mobile, you know?

But You're absolutely right, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Btw the LG Viewty looks cool. Alas after using a Chocolate I have major problems with Touchscreen keys and LG as a whole. Chocolate plain sux!

SRSound
Nov 30, 2007, 08:06 PM
That's a risky scenario. How many times have you found phantom noise in a printmaster only to trace it back to a low level issue that leaked in via returns.
If the GSM burst gets into the effects units its printed no matter how you shield your busses. It also gets regularly transmitted on live tv when reporters have their GSM phone on them.

Shhhhhhhhhh - just trying to be positive :) GSM noise is one of the most annoying things and the truth is, no, we dont just deal with it. No phones allowed anywhere near the capture equipment, lives rooms, or iso booths. ;)

MacNut
Nov 30, 2007, 08:43 PM
Why is ATT so behind the curve with 3G when Sprint is going to roll out 4G with WiMAX next year. Maybe the iPhone should skip a generation and work Towards 4G.

Sweetfeld28
Nov 30, 2007, 11:53 PM
You must not have looked hard. There are 3G (EVDO) Blackberries available at Verizon and Sprint.

Or as Rumor has it: Blackberry 9000 (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/rumor/blackberry-9000-specs-leaked-faster-than-iphone-in-more-ways-than-one-328461.php)

Specs: 3G, WiFi, GPS, 1GB on board memory, 624 Mhz processor [compared to the iPhone 620 Mhz processor], 3.2MP camera, oh yeah and a Touch interface design.

Overall, it sounds like this will have horrible battery life.

runningcameron
Dec 1, 2007, 12:45 PM
This post is a bit off topic, but I had to throw this out there. I keep hearing people cite the reasons for Apple choosing not to work with Verizon as Verizon's outdated network, poor image, ect. My dad has a very high position at Verizon Wireless and was somewhat involved in the discussions with Apple about 3 years ago. Here were some of the terms of the contract:

-Verizon was not allowed to see the phone until 8 months before its release

-Verizon had to drop its V-Cast video and music services and software entirely (on ALL handsets in its line)

-Verizon was not allowed to sell the phone through any retailer except Apple or Verizon stores (thus forcing Verizon to breech its contracts with Best Buy, Walmart, its Independent Resellers, ect.)

-Apple demanded 20% of the customers monthy contract fees.

-Verizon was not allowed to release any other "music-centric" phones onto its network without Apple's permission

In short, Apple wanted to rape Verizon and Verizon said no. I'm not trying to slam on Apple; I love their products and I'm considering a switch to ATT when the 3G iteration of the iPhone is released. (I had the Voyager for a week...doesn't even compare) However, when it comes to collaborating with other companies, Apple is arrogant and outrageously greedy. Verizon really really wanted to carry the phone, but Apple's extensive terms simply made the deal unprofitable. Period. Just thought you should know...

zephead
Dec 1, 2007, 01:25 PM
-Verizon was not allowed to see the phone until 8 months before its release

-Verizon had to drop its V-Cast video and music services and software entirely (on ALL handsets in its line)

-Verizon was not allowed to sell the phone through any retailer except Apple or Verizon stores (thus forcing Verizon to breech its contracts with Best Buy, Walmart, its Independent Resellers, ect.)

-Apple demanded 20% of the customers monthy contract fees.

-Verizon was not allowed to release any other "music-centric" phones onto its network without Apple's permission

So how come AT&T didn't have to do most of these? AT&T probably didn't see it until 6-8 months before it came out, they didn't have to drop their video and music services on their other handsets, and they still have other music-centric phones. They still obviously share revenue with Apple (though I don't know exactly what %), but what's with the other stuff?

MacNut
Dec 1, 2007, 01:28 PM
So how come AT&T didn't have to do most of these? AT&T probably didn't see it until 6-8 months before it came out, they didn't have to drop their video and music services on their other handsets, and they still have other music-centric phones. They still obviously share revenue with Apple (though I don't know exactly what %), but what's with the other stuff?Apple may have had to make concessions to get ATT to agree, we don't know what the original offer was.

Manic Mouse
Dec 1, 2007, 01:41 PM
And so the fools willing to sell their souls for an iPhone get screwed over yet again. If the iPhone is to upgraded yearly, a la iPods, then why are people being straight-jacketed into horrible value "iPhone" contracts for 18 months? The phone you've paid through the nose for will be obsolete while you're still paying for it.

The more this iPhone malarkey goes on the more it seems like Apple ripping off their customers. Why oh why can't they just have sold a freaking phone and left it at that instead of getting greedy and screwing customers? Horrible contracts or pay four times what the phone costs to make to get an unlocked one (in France). I guess there's a reason I don't know anyone who's willing to buy one. Note, I didn't say nobody wanted one, just that I don't know anyone foolish enough to spend the crazy amount of money that one costs in the long run. Buy an iPod Touch and get a GOOD contract with a FREE phone and be happy people, that is my advice. You get a better phone (MMS, 3G, better camera), a better iPod (16Gb rather than 8Gb) and a better contract.

runningcameron
Dec 1, 2007, 02:47 PM
I have no clue why ATT doesn't have to follow some of those, I only know that those conditions were presented to Verizon 3 years ago. I just feel a little for Verizon when they take most of the heat for not carrying the iPhone. People that were hoping for an iPhone on Verizon shouldn't solely be upset at Verizon; Verizon wanted VERY much to get the deal through. Apple's demands were simply unheard of. In fact, I can't think of any other phone-maker that has placed such looney demands on its carrier. Whenever Apple had a meeting with Verizon that he was a part of, he said that in EACH meeting Apple would start out by saying, "So, we're Apple, and". You get the drift. Again, I LOVE LOVE LOVE Apple's products, but a far as my respect for their business practices, there's absolutely none there. I'm not trying to be an a--, but I sort of think that anyone who can't possibly picture Steve Jobs as a controlling dick is drinking a little too much of that delicious iKool-Aid.

Buran
Dec 1, 2007, 03:11 PM
I'll buy one if:

- it has full thirdparty apps support (it doesn't even have an IM client right now, which is not excusable, and you can't update the built-in apps to new ones, I'm looking at you Google Maps, the iphone's google maps is out of date and missing a major feature)

- it has landscape-mode keyboard (even with my tiny fingers I make too many mistakes when typing)

- it has full bluetooth profile support (that caller alert on-screen in bluephoneelite is vital for hard of hearing people like me who may not notice that the phone is ringing when sitting on the charger)

In this day and age why can't the iphone do all those things already?

Oh, and 8GB isn't enough storage space. Double it. At minimum.

I'm using a crappy AT&T tilt (yes, I am using windows mobile) because bluetooth works, the keyboard works, I can install what I want when I want, and oh yes, it has real GPS.

Sweetfeld28
Dec 1, 2007, 04:39 PM
So how come AT&T didn't have to do most of these? AT&T probably didn't see it until 6-8 months before it came out, they didn't have to drop their video and music services on their other handsets, and they still have other music-centric phones. They still obviously share revenue with Apple (though I don't know exactly what %), but what's with the other stuff?


Not sure about this but, AT&T might have had an edge, considering they carried the RAZR V3i. And as we can all remember this phone was the first with iTunes integration.

I don't think that Verizon had an issue with most of these demands, though i'm sure they didn't want to lose their stupid ringtone service or the crappy VCast services due to the iPhone.


Here is a great read from the CEO of AT&T Mobility, he gives alot of good info on this same issue/s.
Link: Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/26/the-engadget-interview-ralph-de-la-vega-ceo-of-atandt-mobility/)

chrisconfessed
Dec 1, 2007, 06:11 PM
I'm certainly going to wait until a new generation of iPhones appear before I buy one...

John Musbach
Dec 1, 2007, 07:25 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

AT&T Inc. Chief Executive Officer Randall Stephenson confirmed (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aAoHevYzQJgw&refer=us) that the 3G version of the iPhone would be made available "next year".

Plans for using the faster 3G data connection in the iPhone have not been secret. Steve Jobs has stated (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/19/3g-iphone-in-the-works/) that a 3G iPhone is coming, but that the delay is due to excessive battery life consumption with existing 3G chipsets. The iPhone presently uses the EDGE network for its data connectivity.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/29/3g-iphone-due-in-2008/)

This is interesting, I wonder if this means Apple will be making their own custom 3g chipsets to deal with the power consumption issue...

savanahrose
Dec 2, 2007, 07:22 AM
This should come as no surprise, as apple has indicated that a 3G is in the works.

For me, it matters not. I live in a rural area which won't see 3G for many years. EDGE reception, however, is quite good and very useful. True, I prefer to use Safari with Wifi over EDGE, but Google Maps, Weather, Mail, etc all work pretty darn well with EDGE.

I realize that the majority of the US population lives near or in our 50-100 or so major metropolitan areas, but for those of us in more rural areas, this is a non-issue. Look at the coverage maps for your area... can you use 3G?

http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/

I'm guessing most of you can, but certainly not everyone.

I'm far more interested in apple bringing out another iPhone product (nano-type) than an upgrade to the existing iPhone.

Thanks for the link. It enabled me to know if I should get excited by the 3g. found out I don't get it here in the Charleston area. Only edge.

crackermac
Dec 2, 2007, 01:09 PM
Anyone know if cell service corresponds directly with Edge? Can you have better Edge than cell service or vice-versa. Is there a way find out? Is there an Edge signal meter?

ClassicMac247
Dec 2, 2007, 01:27 PM
its deff. coming but probably 16 gbs

andy721
Dec 2, 2007, 02:24 PM
they should have done this on the good release of the brighter iphone that doesn't dim.

seedster2
Dec 2, 2007, 02:31 PM
I have no clue why ATT doesn't have to follow some of those, I only know that those conditions were presented to Verizon 3 years ago. I just feel a little for Verizon when they take most of the heat for not carrying the iPhone. People that were hoping for an iPhone on Verizon shouldn't solely be upset at Verizon; Verizon wanted VERY much to get the deal through. Apple's demands were simply unheard of. In fact, I can't think of any other phone-maker that has placed such looney demands on its carrier. Whenever Apple had a meeting with Verizon that he was a part of, he said that in EACH meeting Apple would start out by saying, "So, we're Apple, and". You get the drift. Again, I LOVE LOVE LOVE Apple's products, but a far as my respect for their business practices, there's absolutely none there. I'm not trying to be an a--, but I sort of think that anyone who can't possibly picture Steve Jobs as a controlling dick is drinking a little too much of that delicious iKool-Aid.

This is interesting and quite likely. While I am no Verizon Wireless fan, I don't like this silly iPhone business model.

Despite not carrying the iphone, Verizon did VERY well last quarter and didn't have to surrender any revenue with manufacturers.

powerbook911
Dec 2, 2007, 04:51 PM
Anyone know if cell service corresponds directly with Edge? Can you have better Edge than cell service or vice-versa. Is there a way find out? Is there an Edge signal meter?

Well, more bars seem to equal faster edge, so it's all the same about it seems to me.

mlarkin
Dec 2, 2007, 09:00 PM
1) There will be no announcement of a 3G iPhone. Period. Apple is too preoccupied with rolling out the current model, and the next iteration roadmap puts its introduction probably after the summer.

2) There will be announcements concerning the next upcoming national rollouts ... probably several. Jobs will want to maintain momentum, demonstrate negotiation wins to those markets that will be the most difficult to win concessions in down the road (already Canada, China, others). He wants to get the press in local markets to do his bidding for him, to build anticipation, to get near-term buyers to wait till iPhone arrives.

3) Lots of hoopla on the SDK. He will not only show how it works, but will have a few new applications good to go ("... and you can download them today").

4) Probably an announcement of a major iPhone firmware upgrade to support several new functionalities Jobs will introduce (" ... and the new firmware is available today"). Jobs wants to stand good on his promise that regular updates are forthcoming, but importantly, meaningful updates that make the iPhone better (WiFi/.Mac syncing, Bluetooth connection to laptops for use as modem, other stuff)

5) THE big question in my mind is will he announce a new iPhone model targeted at the lower end (again, not a 3G model). iPhone is in a race to get itself established and claim a critical market share BEFORE competitors such as Nokia, others, can roll out a reasonable response to it. There are lots of people who want an iPhone but just can't afford it the current model and attendant subscription rates. It probably overserves their needs anyway. Jobs will rollout iPhones in a segment-by-segment manner as he did with iPod, careful to minimize disruption to the existing iPhone and not to cannibalize the ongoing iPod lines.

I hope he has a lower end version of iPhone good to go but it may still be too early. Apple may have to have 20-30 operator agreements already established and functioning correctly, other distribution arrangements in place that are necessary to touch more people in more locations, and have the manufacturing and logistics challenges worked out to producing a higher mass-market version of the iPhone.

Of course, Jobs will tout the success of the iPhone to reassure shareholders and to build pressure on operator organizations that they may miss out if they don't cut a deal soon with Apple.

BlackSmp
Dec 9, 2007, 12:20 AM
Anyone know if cell service corresponds directly with Edge? Can you have better Edge than cell service or vice-versa. Is there a way find out? Is there an Edge signal meter?

I am not certain what you mean but since you're using the same frequencies for both speech and data (boh EDGE and "plain" GPRS) the signal strength is identical.

In a cell a number of time slots is allocated/dedicated for packet data and others for circuit switched speech. They use the same frequencies.

Depending on radio environment you use one out of nine different coding schemes for the data (MCS-1 to MCS-9) with different amount of error corrections bits. MCS-1 to MCS-4 "only" offers the same data rates as normal GPRS (which have four coding schemes named CS-1 to CS-4)

-j

BlackSmp
Dec 9, 2007, 12:27 AM
The thing keeping me from an iPhone is the interference that GSM phones produce.
-neil

3G doesn't produce these disturances. So a 3G phone is silent.

But.. 3G phones have a GSM mode so that they fall back to GSM if no 3G coverage is found, so...

--J

BlackSmp
Dec 9, 2007, 12:34 AM
3G is not widespread in the US. The US is MUCH larger than UK or Europe as a whole. Apple was correct in choosing EDGE for THIS market. Your mileage may vary.

What are statistics are you basing your statement on? The last statistics that I've found was 441.000.000 mobile subscribers in Europe and 158.000.000 in USA... (2003)