Watch what U type. The Patriot Act may be watching

[Pinto]

__ A cloud of unknowing surrounds St. Johns College in Santa Fe, Andrew O'Connor and his long interrogation by Albuquerque police and the Secret Service in February 2003. O'Connor was removed from the college library by police after he made negative comments about President Bush in an online chat room. But since he was ultimately released without being charged, he clearly had not threatened the president's life. What he said, how the police and Secret Service knew he said it, and the gag order on the college to keep people from talking about his arrest, are all shrouded in silence.

___ Similarly, we don't know what a New Jersey library user was reading the day another patron called the police to report that the man was looking at a foreign-language Web page. But the man was hauled off for questioning, held without being allowed to call his home or a lawyer, and then released without being charged. We also don't know why the FBI arrived at a California student's home hours after she talked on the phone about bomb icons in a video game she was playing.

___ The only thing we do know is that all these acts by police and FBI are legal under the USA Patriot Act. A few years ago, I was almost arrested in the middle of the night. The police stopped a hit man just before he reached his target. The hit man had a card with my name and the title of one of my books on the seat next to him, and the police were sure I was involved. But they had to get a warrant, and the assistant state's attorney wouldn't issue it. Today, though, the cops could just come and get me. And U.S. Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft thinks that's fine.

___ In fact, as Ashcroft has taken his dog-and-pony show on the road, he's been saying that not only is it good for the police to arrest me, or library patrons, or college students, without needing to show probable cause, they should have even more power. They should be able to search all our records, and to hold us without bail when they do arrest us. He says those of us objecting are "raising the phantom of lost liberty," and we're giving "ammunition to America's enemies."
link (http://truthout.org/docs_03/092303D.shtml)

[shadowfax]

interesting...

a very balanced news source you've found, to be sure.

but nonetheless, the article is disturbing. fighting freedom: the GOP's war on terrorism?

i think a suggestion like that one has a lot of validity, though it's hyperbolic to some extent. the controversy is pretty wild though. did you guys see that hardball with chris matthews takeoff on SNL a few weeks ago, where they had ashcroft arguing for an insane curtailment of freedom and some democrat rep i have never heard of talking about how it's outrageously unjust that ashcroft is taking away the guns of the terrorists, and not letting them call their friends and leaders...

knowing where to draw the line really can be hard, and i don't know how much inflammatory anecdotal argumentation adds to the meat of the argument. i am not siding with the GOP on this, but i'm definitely questioning the counterargument.

[Daveman Deluxe]

shadowfax: "If you bake a cake, that doesn't make you a baker. If you paint a painting, that doesn't make you a painer. But if you blow up ONE embassy, it automatically makes you a terorrist! That's a LITTLE hypocritical!" :D It was brilliant that they cast John McCain as John Ashcroft...

As for the original post: that's scary. I can't imagine any way in which ANY court can consider the Patriot Act in accordance with the U.S. Constitution. Somebody should file a lawsuit. I'm amazed the ACLU hasn't stepped in yet (if they have, I don't know about it). Not only that, I've heard they're working on another Patriot Act.

"He who is willing to give up essential freedoms for temporary security deserves neither freedom nor security." (sorry if I butchered the quote)

The Patriot Act goes against everything that this country is supposed to stand for. Our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves. I'm not an ultra-liberal type, but this country could use a revolution, and I expect it will come within the next one hundred years. If the rebellion comes from a right attitude (I still consider THAT issue up in the air), I will be more than happy to throw the first stone.

Stories like this make me sick to the stomach. I feel like loading my tiger, comic books, and candy bars into my wagon and heading to Mars. :mad:

Joseph McCarthy, thy name is John Ashcroft, and thou art STILL an embarrassment to this country.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Daveman Deluxe
shadowfax: "If you bake a cake, that doesn't make you a baker. If you paint a painting, that doesn't make you a painer. But if you blow up ONE embassy, it automatically makes you a terorrist! That's a LITTLE hypocritical!" :D It was brilliant that they cast John McCain as John Ashcroft... hahahaha! YES! it was the best :)

one of the few good things i have seen on there in a long time....

[Dont Hurt Me]

bottom line is the patriot act sucks and is a joke, they let 20 muhammads- armed with razor blades strip our country of our freedoms. this is ashcrofts police state and we need to get rid of this freedom destroying crap! They turn a blind eye to all the illegals coming in through mexico & canada, they let countless visa's expire with no idea where these people are and then want to strip us of our freedoms under the guise of catching some muhammad whatch you mcallit. Pure crap from Bush/Ashcroft. we need to eliminate the patriot act and start using common sense instead of freedom stripping laws. Bush is spending our tax dollars like there is no tomorrow. I just might go libertarian!

[zimv20]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Bush is spending our tax dollars like there is no tomorrow.

maybe he knows something we don't ;-)

[Dont Hurt Me]

it really sickens me that these abuses are allowed under the patriot act. there is nothing patriotic about destroying more of our freedoms. amazing that it takes billions of dollars just to catch these few muhammad want a be's. Bush's popularity is falling all the time and if he keeps on this spending path he is on he will end up just like his dad. a 1 term president.

[Desertrat]

I still believe that the Congress as a whole believed that Flight 93 was aimed at the Capitol, not the White House. After all, Congress is a near-permanent job; Presidents come and go, and are far less important in the Grand Scheme Of Things. You should pardon my slightly :) cynical view of Congress...

Anyhow, the Patriot Act was passed and signed into law by a bunch of scared people. It is set up to protect them and the upper echelons of bureaucrats and appointees. It doesn't do jack squat to protect Joe SixPack beyond past legal methods. (Okay, there are a very few good investigative tools added, but danged few.)

Once you get past Ashcroft's view of the Second Amendment, he and I just never would be able to agree about "security".

'Rat

[Dont Hurt Me]

those are some very interesting and good points you make desertrat, and you may be right. anyhow our government pretends to do one thing (security) while doing another ( no security & letting illegals into our country every day) meanwhile billions more of our tax dollars up in smoke and our freedoms again being torn down in the name of false security.