Crash crash boom. Now I remember what it was like to be a windows user

[pdpardue]

So, I installed Leopard the other night, on my gen one MBP. 2.16 Dual core intel 1 GB Ram, in case you care. installed via archive and install. Upgraded to 10.5.1 immediately.

My first impressions had been positive, spaces rocks my socks, spotlight is lighting quick, haven't used time machine yet.

Now, I'm finding it ANNOYING. I feel like a windows user from years ago, maybe worse. I have problems with programs crashing like mad crazy. Even apple apps like safari and ical crash crazy.

In the few days since I've installed, I've had safari, ical, ichat, system pref, painter, msn messenger, and itunes et cetera all crash on me; sometimes repeatedly. I can't open terminal at all. Obviously I haven't fully tested all my software but this is starting to piss me off. I am now (as many others) starting to hate the transparent menu bar, I keep wanting to drag my windows higher only to realize that the menu bar is there but feels like empty space to me.

I haven't felt this frustrated with my computer since I was using windows. I don't have an external drive I can use to back up my user files, otherwise I would do a clean install and dump everything back over.

Anyone have any suggestions?

[soLoredd]

Sorry for your frustrations. I picked up Leopard the other day but waited until my new firewire drive came in today to install it. I keep coming across posts like yours that make me weary of installing it locally to my MacBook.

My suggestion to you would be to go get yourself an external now then re-install Tiger.

[pdpardue]

Sorry for your frustrations. I picked up Leopard the other day but waited until my new firewire drive came in today to install it. I keep coming across posts like yours that make me weary of installing it locally to my MacBook.

My suggestion to you would be to go get yourself an external now then re-install Tiger.

I've heard a lot from both sides. I have a friend that just upgraded and he said he did a clean install and has had no hitches. So I'm feeling that it might be related to the archive and install... I just don't want to re install all my programs and set up my account and copy over my files. This though has really made me consider downgrading to tiger and I have NEVER ever been forced to consider that.

[cohibadad]

have you tried making a new admin account to see if those applications continue to crash under that account?

[HLdan]

Yes, the best experience with Leopard will be from a clean install. I have had zero issues and I did a full erase of Tiger and reformat and install of Leopard. Everything works great and zero crashes and Leopard is very stable. Many people have had zero issues from a clean install.
This is a complex upgrade and Archive an Install works best when reinstalling the same OS just to clean things up.

Apple gives all options including A&I, Upgrade and Erase and Install. The first two are offered because it's best to use those if you have a clean install of the previous OS meaning you have installed no extra apps, no iLife, no nothing. Anything different that that then Erase and Install gives the best experience.

Don't listen to anyone that tells you otherwise as your friend has already confirmed positive experiences from a clean install. Also it's best to use Disk Utility to completely erase, reformat and install. Good luck.

[GSMiller]

have you tried making a new admin account to see if those applications continue to crash under that account?

I did this and it fixed every single problem I was having with Leopard.

[TheNorthWaves]

I did a complete erase/install with leopard and I am finding my user experience to be comparable to Tiger... although a couple of random, minor and really unimportant glitches have occurred in the week since I did this.

There is also an occasional pause for less than a second, while I am typing (wired keyboard)... but again, I say "whatever" it will be fixed by 10.5.3 or something... I have not used time machine yet because of the problems people are reporting.

Honestly, I came from Windows vista (and every preceding version of windows) and my general thought process is "so what if leopard has a glitch or two. It's a hundred less glitches than windows and the layout is infinitely better".

[thegrandmaster]

I just did the 'easy' upgrade option, and absolutely everything is working fine for me, seems like I'm the only person that didn't archive and install/clean install!

[cal6n]

I've heard a lot from both sides. I have a friend that just upgraded and he said he did a clean install and has had no hitches. So I'm feeling that it might be related to the archive and install... I just don't want to re install all my programs and set up my account and copy over my files. This though has really made me consider downgrading to tiger and I have NEVER ever been forced to consider that.

Before resorting to the ultimate answer, it'd probably be worth downloading the 10.5.1 combo update and running it. I had a little instability on my MBP before I did this. Seems OK now.

[SawTooth500]

If I may offer a suggestion.

if you move System, Library, and Users to trash and do a clean install (or maybe just the library folder in Users/you/) you don't lose all the other applications you have. Just need to reset the preferences. Or leave Users alone and clean install, but that one I'm not sure of.:D:apple:

[HLdan]

If I may offer a suggestion.

if you move System, Library, and Users to trash and do a clean install (or maybe just the library folder in Users/you/) you don't lose all the other applications you have. Just need to reset the preferences. Or leave Users alone and clean install, but that one I'm not sure of.:D:apple:

I think you are confused with what a clean install is. What you just explained was an Archive and Install and the only way to do a clean install is to erase, reformat and install.

[yudilks]

I did archive and install, and everything has been perfect as well... I cleaned up Tiger using Onyx before I proceed with the upgrade... Then after I installed Leopard, I defragment the HD, repair permission, erase all preference files and cache...

[Devil's Refugee]

I've had no end of trouble with Leopard. I have a pre-SR Macbook, did a complete clean install and I'm having crash after crash. I never had this trouble with Tiger and I moved from Windows for the very reason than Apple had a better system. Now I'm beginning to wonder whether things were rushed for Leopard's release on time.

So far, unimpressed.

[vansouza]

I originally installed to my MBP 2.16ghz with archive and install; I have Parallels and BootCamp installed; absolutely no issues since install day.

But because I am neurotic I did a clean install today... no issues... I have no idea why some seem so have so many issues as the OP. It must be very frustrating; my advice would be to use TimeMachine to back up and then do a clean install.... Good Luck...:confused:

[djellison]

I did this and it fixed every single problem I was having with Leopard.

I did a clean install (onto a brand new hdd) and have MORE crashes than when I was running on an upgrade. iPhoto has crashed a fair few times, Safari crashes quite a lot ( and when it's not crashing, it's painful to use), Automator crashes with shocking regularity. About the only thing that doesn't crash is Mail. My XP box at work crashes significantly less often. Tiger was great, almost zero issues. Leopard is as much a beta as Vista imho - neither are suitable for a production environment - and frankly, when one pays the Apple premium - this simply is not acceptable.

Doug

[HLdan]

I originally installed to my MBP 2.16ghz with archive and install; I have Parallels and BootCamp installed; absolutely no issues since install day.

But because I am neurotic I did a clean install today... no issues... I have no idea why some seem so have so many issues as the OP. It must be very frustrating; my advice would be to use TimeMachine to back up and then do a clean install.... Good Luck...:confused:

Many tend to have issues even after a clean install due to the crap they install post Leopard install. Haxies, crap to change the UI look (what for:rolleyes:), 3rd party software that has not yet been updated for Leopard and downloaded movies and mp3's that are corrupted, but they won't mention that, they just say, "I'M HAVING PROBLEMS WITH LEOPARD" like Leopard is the culprit.:rolleyes:

[djellison]

3rd party software that has not yet been updated for Leopard

Yup - iPhoto, Mail, Safari, Automator....3rd party crap all of it, right?

Leopard HAS ISSUES. Why is it so hard for people fortunate enough to not have such issues to understand that? I switched to the Mac platform to avoid this stuff. It's not enough to send me back to XP yet, but it's enough to make me question buying an MBP in the spring.

Doug

[HLdan]

Yup - iPhoto, Mail, Safari, Automator....3rd party crap all of it, right?

Leopard HAS ISSUES. Why is it so hard for people fortunate enough to not have such issues to understand that?

Doug

If many of us don't have issues with Leopard then what does that tell you? And furthermore what does that tell you about the ones that are having problems?

[djellison]

If many of us don't have issues with Leopard then what does that tell you? And furthermore what does that tell you about the ones that are having problems?

If many of us DO have issues with Leopard, then what does that tell you? You've got to be blind, stupid, have your head in the sand or be some sort of Leopard issue denialist to think every thing's fine with Leopard...it just isn't - a 5 second look at this very forum proves that beyond all doubt.

Even IF you try to write it off as something to do with 3rd party applications - how and why should installing something else cause a crash in an Apple application, on an Apple OS, on Apple hardware. People pay 50% premiums for Apple hardware for the explicit reason of avoiding this sort of crap.

Well done to you for having a lovely stable experience with Leopard - I envy you that - but I'll not have some smug apple fan boy try and blame users for OS issues - that's simply moronic and you do neither yourself or Apple any favors like that.

Doug

[pdpardue]

Okay, I downloaded the 10.5.1 update directly rather then through software update. maybe(?) a little better. but I've not really tried much since I did that. I've had ical, safari, and ichat crash on me so far. I still can't open terminal.

I'm trying to think what i would loose if I did a clean install since I don't have an external i can use to off load my files. Most of what I have here on the laptop is stored on idisk. at least the 'important' stuff like my school work. The largest 'file' I have is my itunes library, and my vmware virtual machine. Aside from that, just don't care to reinstall my programs and things like that.

anyone in my area want to lend me a external for an hour and give me a hand with this?

[DesignerOnMac]

Okay, I downloaded the 10.5.1 update directly rather then through software update. maybe(?) a little better. but I've not really tried much since I did that. I've had ical, safari, and ichat crash on me so far. I still can't open terminal.

I'm trying to think what i would loose if I did a clean install since I don't have an external i can use to off load my files. Most of what I have here on the laptop is stored on idisk. at least the 'important' stuff like my school work. The largest 'file' I have is my itunes library, and my vmware virtual machine. Aside from that, just don't care to reinstall my programs and things like that.

anyone in my area want to lend me a external for an hour and give me a hand with this?

I just did an upgrade from tiger and have had no issues at all. Guess I am one of the lucky ones. A few questions:

1. Have you done repair and verify permissions from the DVD?
2. Do you have any 3rd party apps that could be causing the problem?
3. Hacked any part of your OS?
4. Did you try downloading OnyX? Great program!
5. Using cheap RAM? Take out your RAM and reinstall the RAM that came with your computer.

Hope this helps you...

[cohibadad]

Yup - iPhoto, Mail, Safari, Automator....3rd party crap all of it, right?

Leopard HAS ISSUES. Why is it so hard for people fortunate enough to not have such issues to understand that? I switched to the Mac platform to avoid this stuff. It's not enough to send me back to XP yet, but it's enough to make me question buying an MBP in the spring.

Doug

If you switched to Mac to avoid problems and Tiger was working perfect why were you in such a rush to change to Leopard. Wouldn't you expect potentially more problems with Leopard so soon after release? You certainly are having more problems than I would expect but Tiger would be a safer bet for you.

[THX1139]

I'm one of the fortunate ones who just did an upgrade over Tiger and have had no problems. I had wanted to just try it out, so I backed up Tiger to an external with Superduper!, then ran the installer and did an upgrade only. My plan was to check it out and then maybe do a total clean install of the OS and my applications later. Well, it's gone so smooth that I've had no reason to reinstall. That was three weeks ago and I've never looked back. The only trouble I've had was an occasional crash of Safari. But then, Safari crashed on Tiger also.

I'm starting to wonder if somehow I got a different version of Leopard because I'm not having any of the problems people are complaining about. I know there are thousands (or millions) of users who are not having problems either or we would of heard about it. Generally, the only people you hear from are those with problems. If Leopard was defective, with the amount of copies sold this past month, it would have made the six o'clock news!

[THX1139]

anyone in my area want to lend me a external for an hour and give me a hand with this?

How big are your files? Maybe you can put the important stuff on DVD?

Another thing you could try if your strapped for cash. Go to Frys or Bestbuy and pickup an external. They have 30 day, no questions asked return policies.

[John01021988]

I did and upgrade and I have no issues at all. Try updating with the Combo installer 10.5.1

[pdpardue]

I just did an upgrade from tiger and have had no issues at all. Guess I am one of the lucky ones. A few questions:

1. Have you done repair and verify permissions from the DVD?
2. Do you have any 3rd party apps that could be causing the problem?
3. Hacked any part of your OS?
4. Did you try downloading OnyX? Great program!
5. Using cheap RAM? Take out your RAM and reinstall the RAM that came with your computer.

Hope this helps you...

1. No, have from disk utility in leopard
2. no
3. not had time, and no.
4. Have the tiger version, haven't tried the newest. Suggestions for use?
5. Stock ram

[HLdan]

If many of us DO have issues with Leopard, then what does that tell you? You've got to be blind, stupid, have your head in the sand or be some sort of Leopard issue denialist to think every thing's fine with Leopard...it just isn't - a 5 second look at this very forum proves that beyond all doubt.

Even IF you try to write it off as something to do with 3rd party applications - how and why should installing something else cause a crash in an Apple application, on an Apple OS, on Apple hardware. People pay 50% premiums for Apple hardware for the explicit reason of avoiding this sort of crap.

Well done to you for having a lovely stable experience with Leopard - I envy you that - but I'll not have some smug apple fan boy try and blame users for OS issues - that's simply moronic and you do neither yourself or Apple any favors like that.

Doug

Your post is completely idiotic! I stand by what I said earlier, if many of us are not having problems with Leopard then what does that mean? It means were doing something right here. Am I suppose to feel bad because I can't be part of the crowd that's having issues? Something somewhere is not right for the people that are having issues. It amazes me that you blame only the OS as if the user couldn't possibly be the culprit.
We are ALL using Apple's computers and the same OS so it stands to reason that the people with good experiences are not just having good experiences by luck. Get your head out your a$$.

[DoFoT9]

to the OP: i have the same computer as you (2gb RAM) and it is running PERFECTLY... i do not have one single problem, nearly a month uptime, running 2 parallel machines, transfering files, making HD movies with imovie etcetcetc. nothing crashes.. its perfect.

i am running 10.5.0.. maybe 10.5.1 has a small problem???

[djellison]

It amazes me that you blame only the OS as if the user couldn't possibly be the culprit. .

It amazes me that you blame the users as if the OS couldn't possibly be the culprit. By your argument, Leopard is 100% perfect, no bug or error can be anything other than the fault of the User and if anything goes wrong then it's the users fault. I'll give you just one little example. There's LOTS of reports of keyboards locking up for a minute or so, for a short while. New mac users with BRAND NEW hardware and OSX installs, experienced users suggesting the use of external keyboards etc. This isn't a user issue - this is a widely accepted problem with OSX. There are many others - take 5 seconds to look around this very forum - if you don't accept this sort of problem, might I suggest that the reality check is required by you rather than anyone else.

Doug

[Yuppi]

Did you update the icons in your dock?
Because that was my problem when I did an upgrade & install. All applications that were renewed by leopard still had the tiger reference in the dock. If you thus tried to start one of them they crashed.
Remove all icons from your dock and replace them with the apps from the application folder. Maybe that helps.

[kaiwai]

So, I installed Leopard the other night, on my gen one MBP. 2.16 Dual core intel 1 GB Ram, in case you care. installed via archive and install. Upgraded to 10.5.1 immediately.

My first impressions had been positive, spaces rocks my socks, spotlight is lighting quick, haven't used time machine yet.

Now, I'm finding it ANNOYING. I feel like a windows user from years ago, maybe worse. I have problems with programs crashing like mad crazy. Even apple apps like safari and ical crash crazy.

In the few days since I've installed, I've had safari, ical, ichat, system pref, painter, msn messenger, and itunes et cetera all crash on me; sometimes repeatedly. I can't open terminal at all. Obviously I haven't fully tested all my software but this is starting to piss me off. I am now (as many others) starting to hate the transparent menu bar, I keep wanting to drag my windows higher only to realize that the menu bar is there but feels like empty space to me.

I haven't felt this frustrated with my computer since I was using windows. I don't have an external drive I can use to back up my user files, otherwise I would do a clean install and dump everything back over.

Anyone have any suggestions?

It screams of two problems - bad memory. Bad memory doesn't always result in kernel panics, it can result in unexpected application behaviour. The second can be because of 'bad settings' but given that you did the prudent thing of 'clean install', it might be bad settings.

I am assuming you're not stupid enough to do upgrades or archive/install.

[pdpardue]

It screams of two problems - bad memory. Bad memory doesn't always result in kernel panics, it can result in unexpected application behaviour. The second can be because of 'bad settings' but given that you did the prudent thing of 'clean install', it might be bad settings.

I am assuming you're not stupid enough to do upgrades or archive/install.

Memory is fine, how would upgrading from a perfectly running Tiger set up into leopard suddenly also result in bad memory.

Yes, I was stupid enough to do a archive/install.

I have however since trashed my preferences and thus far things seem to be working fine.

[Hawkeye411]

I had a bunch of weird problems and a fresh, clean install fixed everything.