Embedded iPod Apps and Upcoming Devices? [Archive]

MacRumors

Sep 25, 2003, 04:39 AM

A search at Apple's Job site (http://jobs.apple.com) reveals a few other jobs of interest.

Apple is looking for a Junior Software Engineer (https://jobs.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Employment.woa/wa/jobDescription?RequisitionID=2001844) to join the iPod and Special Projects Group to "enhance the embedded applications you find on the world famous iPod and the upcoming devices from Apple."

Another job listing for Senior Embedded Software Engineer was looking for an engineer "to design and build embedded consumer multimedia applications" with skills with ARM development.

The ARM Processor is currently used in the iPod.

mvc

Sep 25, 2003, 05:01 AM

<wild speculation>Multimedia - Hmm, might have just said sound if that was all it was. Lets hope it's video too!</wild speculation>

crap freakboy

Sep 25, 2003, 05:26 AM

daijones

Sep 25, 2003, 05:30 AM

Was hoping they were more advanced on such a device than hiring software engineers now would imply. The Archos AV340 multimedia jukebox is a good model of what I'm hoping for from Apple, except the Apple version would be integrated with iTunes, iPhoto, etc; have a much better interface; and airport extreme for streaming from my desktop. Don't know how long I can resist the archos model though, might have to say screw vertical integration if apple restrict it to just the iPod much longer. There's obviously a market or Archos wouldn't have updated their model, so come on Apple.

displaced

Sep 25, 2003, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by crap freakboy

space invaders, chess, dig-dug, tetris, tempest(now that would be cool) etc etc

Wow - you're right - Tempest would be fantastic with the scroll wheel!

(I'm one of the 8 or so people who bought an Atari Jaguar. I don't think Tempest 2000 has left the cartridge slot in 7 years or so... fantastic game).

As for video, I agree. Really can't see any point beyond the gee-wizz factor, and that's one of the strengths of the iPod - all its functionality is genuinely useful. I'd hate to see that tarnished.

Of course, if it employed some kind of holographic projection system, or direct retinal interface, that'd be groovy.

(edit: just in case anyone thought I was being serious, here's a ;) )

nagromme

Sep 25, 2003, 06:02 AM

Sony makes LCD glasses that create a virtual big-screen TV several feet in front of you. It can be transparent, or it can block out everything if you wish. They come in TV and VGA-connected versions. (The VGA one can be a computer display--but only 800x600 I think.)

They're expensive and the quality's not great. But they COULD one day make portable video doable with an iPod!

Meanwhile--a Tetris clone, please! Wheel to move left/right, button to rotate. the fast-drop option isn't vital.

And a grayscale visualizer would be fun.

I also think image-viewing would be practical, added to Notes maybe. You could view driving maps saved from Mapquest for instance, or show photos to someone in grasycale. Video doesn't seem as useful.

MrMacMan

Sep 25, 2003, 06:03 AM

Wow, very cool...

A better processor?

Like a Handheld?

;) :D

mangoman

Sep 25, 2003, 06:07 AM

iPod as PDA....

*sigh*

Here we freakin' go again...

mvc

Sep 25, 2003, 06:21 AM

Originally posted by daijones
The Archos AV340 multimedia jukebox is a good model of what I'm hoping for from Apple, except the Apple version would be integrated with iTunes, iPhoto, etc; have a much better interface; and airport extreme for streaming from my desktop.…

Yeah, thats the kind of thing I had in mind, battery permitting. A video/audio player, with some sort of wireless ability perhaps as suggested by a previous iPod article.

Hmm, maybe by 2006, with an OLED display covering most of the front? Good for games, video and even that dang PDA functionality. Assuming it doesn't become a phone as well (for all you iPhone despisers out there) :D

The iPod is gonna evolve or spawn siblings, its just a question of how and when. Lets hope it continues to rule.

jouster

Sep 25, 2003, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by nagromme

Meanwhile--a Tetris clone, please! Wheel to move left/right, button to rotate. the fast-drop option isn't vital.

The buttons and scroll wheel aren't particularly well placed WRT each other, at least for Tetris.

Button placement was just one of the many exceptionally smart design decisions made by Nintendo for the original Gameboy (The little curve on one of the corners is inspired).

Squire

Sep 25, 2003, 06:52 AM

I don't see the point of a video iPod, either. However, as people have mentioned in past threads, being able to plug your digicam in and load up the iPod's HD with pictures... THAT would be useful- better than an IBM Microdrive.

I, too, would like to see more PDA-like features on an iPod. I think Apple missed out on the wave, though.

Squire

bennetsaysargh

Sep 25, 2003, 06:57 AM

well, it does say iPod family on the apple store.

also, i would like something do integrate iPhoto into it like the whole iPod taking photos off of the digital cameras. probably not able to do DV though.

also, a visualizer would be great, but maybe it takes up less battery life. and maybe it can show more information about the file.

one thing that i would want, is a feature that i can take songs off of the on the go playlist. maybe how you get them on can be how you get them off.

just ideas:)

MOFS

Sep 25, 2003, 07:42 AM

Surely the easiest thing for Apple could do to the iPod to make it even more fashionable would be to give it proper line-in capabilities ie make it into a mega dictaphone! Imagine the imnplications - you culd record lectures, interviews, or even the radio onto your iPod! I would snap an iPod up with dictational capacities in no time.

Mike

sigamy

Sep 25, 2003, 07:53 AM

I don't care about viewing video on the iPod but video in and out ports and recording capability could turn the iPod into a portable Tivo. This could have both home and pro uses.

For home use, you could load the iPod with kids shows, plug it into the TV in the car for the next long road trip.

Or instead of exporting your iMovie or FCP project to DV or DVD you could export to the iPod and then view on a TV. Imagine a wedding videographer having drafts of 5 different wedding videos, he just takes his iPod to each client's house and can allow them to view the first draft.

digitald3

Sep 25, 2003, 07:53 AM

What if they add Airport(802.11b/g) functionality, which would enable browsing the internet with your ipod, and a instant connection to iTunes for music purchases from your iPod.. As far as video goes.. arn't there some projectors out there now that have Airport connections that allow you to present your presentation from your laptop wirelessly.. What if you could do this with your iPod, what if you had a MP4/Quicktime movie stored on your iPod and hooked it up to your wireless projector.. No need for the little screen... To me Airport functionality is a natural extension of the iPod

fixyourthinking

Sep 25, 2003, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by crap freakboy
never understood ipod users who'd like to see video on their ipod, screen is too small imho.

games is one area of the ipod which would be sweet to improve upon.

space invaders, chess, dig-dug, tetris, tempest(now that would be cool) etc etc

or at least apple give an option to dl extras

I've never understood people who don't understand people that want video. What about hooking an iPod up to a TV to show a video, your pictures etc etc. Any video unit in a car to me is big enough ... I'd love this on a trip to just watch my favorite TIVOed shows or maybe an episode of TechTV Screensavers that I'd missed. To see how cool this concept is and someone that's beaten Apple to the punch on this one see:

http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/portable_media_players/2003/08/25/rca_rd2780_lyra_20gb_audiovideo_jukebox.php

I agree on the game downloads though, Apple could work with not only games for the iPod but with Pangea and have a section called iGames (just like iTunes) - imagine games for 99 cents too! Or what about custom objects for the SIMs for Mac Users, customized Quake mods, etc etc.

I WANT TETRIS on MY iPOD!!!;)

bennetsaysargh

Sep 25, 2003, 08:28 AM

Badtz Maru

Sep 25, 2003, 08:55 AM

Arn forgot to mention the best part of one of these. Check the last line. Is Symbian OS only used for phones?

Title: Senior Embedded Software Engineer
Req. ID: 2008231
Location: Santa Clara Valley, California

Apple Computer is looking for a Senior Software Engineer to design and build embedded consumer multimedia applications. Must possess strong skills in the areas of application design, embedded development, and have solid API design principles. Candidate should have a history of successful large volume consumer product shipment.

B.S. or better in Electrical Engineering or Computer Science. Required skills include C, C++, UI, ARM, and embedded development. Audio codec and Symbian OS experience is desirable.

Badtz Maru

Sep 25, 2003, 08:58 AM

GSM? Battery operated devices? Display types and video and analog integration?

Title: Sr. Systems Integrator-Hardware Design
Req. ID: 1980342
Location: Santa Clara Valley, California

Responsible for electrical design of cool and stylish Apple products. This person will be a member of a top notch team with responsibilities for the design, implementation, and integration of digital and analog electronics. The applicant should be familiar with computer system architecture and digital design. Duties include schematic capture, prototype bring-up and debugging, hardware bug tracking, functional verification, signal characterization, and manufacturing support.

May work with outside vendors providing new components or electrical assemblies. Assist and track progress of groups who qualify the product such as reliability, EMC, and safety. Responsible for transitioning product to manufacturing and for working on cost reduction. Must be familiar with battery operated devices and power consumption estimation. Good communication, analytical, and documentation skills desired. May involve international travel to manufacturing sites.

BS/MS EE or equivalent required, as well as 5+ years experience needed. 3+ years in a lead role preferred. Experience in the following areas are important: SDRAM, Flash, ASIC’s, processor selection, ATAPI, various communication protocols (ie: GSM, Bluetooth, IEEE 802.116, Firewire, and USB), display types and video and analog integration.

JayBee

Sep 25, 2003, 09:05 AM

I was thinking about this the other day...

iBook < PowerBook
iMac < PowerMac
iPod < ... PowerPod?

A smooth, cool aluminium Pod with lots of "pro" cababilities (like some video storage/video out, camera hookup, HTML renderer via AirPort/Bluetooth? etc etc). NOT a PDA, but something more "digital appliance" - the perfect companion to your PowerBook.

Just some ideas, but generally, where there's an iProduct, there's room for a PowerProduct.

Now PowerSight I'd like to see ;-)

Hmm

Sep 25, 2003, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by JayBee
iPod < ... PowerPod?
An interesting idea, but Griffin is already using the name.
Powerpod (http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/powerpodauto/)

contempt

Sep 25, 2003, 09:57 AM

I can't see them putting video on the ipod unless the screen size changed. The Archos is a great device in concept, but how much time would you spend looking at a video. My 320x480 Clie is perfect for video viewing, but I watch it as much since it's a major power drain.

What I do see is a color, 65k screen coming that will integrate with iPhoto and display photos plus album artwork of the selected track. With color lcd display prices so cheap, it really wouldn't cost Apple too much to invest in that direction. Then you would also see full integration with iCal in all its colors. I really do believe Apple does not want to get back into the PDA market, not now that that market is continually sagging.

coumerelli

Sep 25, 2003, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by sigamy
I don't care about viewing video on the iPod but video in and out ports and recording capability could turn the iPod into a portable Tivo. This could have both home and pro uses.

For home use, you could load the iPod with kids shows, plug it into the TV in the car for the next long road trip.

Or instead of exporting your iMovie or FCP project to DV or DVD you could export to the iPod and then view on a TV. Imagine a wedding videographer having drafts of 5 different wedding videos, he just takes his iPod to each client's house and can allow them to view the first draft.

When I read this, I just sat back, closed my eyes, and invisioned just what you said. My only response is, 'brilliant!' (aside from the obvious - 'Apple, are you listening?')

Originally posted by Squire
I, too, would like to see more PDA-like features on an iPod. I think Apple missed out on the wave, though.

PDA's, only a wave. Here, and gone.

__________________
now shipping - 15" 1.25 Powerbook! No frills, just the extras - iSight, Airport, and let's throw in some good speakers while we're at it.

mangoman

Sep 25, 2003, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by coumerelli PDA's, only a wave. Here, and gone.

Come on, now. To say that the notion of moving personal data on a small device is a "wave" is a little too quick of a brush off.

I'm sure of my status as UnGeek SuperDork when I say this: I don't give a rat's ass about cell phones. Neat stuff, but overpriced (phone and service). So along comes the iPod. Very capable of handling my personal data as well as my music (overpriced, too? yeah, but considering the existing capabilities and potential of the machine, it's easier for me to swallow such a price).

I say the PDA market's not dead. The market's finally getting a wake up call, that's all. A company like Apple can re-tool the whole idea of PDA and make it work via their existing success of the iPod -- simply by adding input functionality to the iPod. Inkwell capable screens, perhaps.

bankshot

Sep 25, 2003, 10:36 AM

Personally, I hope this is more to improve existing functionality in the iPod rather than to add new capabilities. I love my iPod, but I have one major gripe: gaps in playback. As it currently stands, I can either have gapless playback by ripping an entire album to one track in iTunes or I can have the ability to skip around among individual tracks by ripping normally, but not both. I find it kind of ridiculous that a 20-year-old CD player can handle both of these tasks just fine, but a much more sophisticated device like the iPod can't.

I realize that most iPod users probably don't care enough about this and thus my feedback to Apple probably falls on deaf ears. But I can dream, right? :) Honestly I think it would be fairly easy to do, but would require a slight change in the implementations of both iTunes and the iPod firmware. Simply allow iTunes to rip an album as a single gapless file, but also save an index of where all the tracks start, maybe as metadata within the file. Then either iTunes or the iPod can play the whole thing through as one continuous audio stream, but it can also show current track information and skip around within the file to different tracks.

Sounds like a perfect project for a junior software engineer. But then, I'm probably just crazy. They'll probably add new whiz-bang features to the next generation iPods and my gaps will haunt me forever... :rolleyes:

emdezet

Sep 25, 2003, 10:37 AM

So what is the deal with recording on iPod? I read about 6sec recording capability months ago. If memory serves it was more like a hack than a feature. I was pretty sure at the time future models would feature at least uncompressed audio recording in mono and stereo. Compress it on your Mac, if you need to!

But noooo, Apple present iPod updates every other Thursday or so and add stupid usb2, rearrange the buttons and light them red, invent a docking station, throw in a couple of new games or minor, really minor syncing capabilities and basta. That would appear to be the exact problem: basta = it suffices. Because people just buy it anyway. They buy it like crazed.

By now they offer 40GB of hd space. Wouldn´t it just be marvellous if you could just plug in a mic or the line-out of any other music player or instrument and record away? Yeah, I know...COPYRIGHT! UUUUAAAAHHHH! Watch out, theft is all around!

Just recently I bought an MD-recorder and returned it the very next day, because it was just too much of a hassle and didn´t integrate well with my Mac. I wanna go wherever and record whatever in as good a quality as my microphone has to offer. DAT is way too expensive and mechanically intricate for my taste, and the linear nature of magnetized tape sucks anyway.

Record on iPod, transfer in notime, cut and play on the Mac. Apparently it will never happen. The same holds true vor video. I mean, come on! Every DV-cam has firewire. THINK! Make the connection!

I will never own an iPod. With what features it has to offer so far it seems to me a waste of resources.

Video playback via an early-iBook-TV-out-like cable would be another feature, I´d simply rush to the store for and buy one of these suckers, too.

Also I regard the remote control as an insult. Put another display in there! A tiny one, but a display!

Right now I use an Aiptek 128MB USB-Stick-Player I wear around my neck. It was just 88EUR and for me definitely the weapon of choice. Now, if only the damn resource-fork files the likes of _title.mp3 wouldn´t mess up random play!

From Win to Mac

Sep 25, 2003, 10:38 AM

What goes on in Apple's "Special Projects Group" ?

Is it like the Lockheed Martin Skunk Works or US SOCOM, some secret place where they have infinite funding and limitless capabilities ? Is the Video iPod already done. Do they have a 50,000$ working prototype of the freon-cooled PowerBook G5 ????

We must know !

FlamDrag

Sep 25, 2003, 10:47 AM

The useful advantage of a video-enabled iPod is not so much to WATCH movies, but to preview DV files or MP4's etc.

Imagine this - you connect your FW equipped video camera to your iPod and record directly to your iPod. When you're all done, you can make simple iMovie type edits with your iPod. On the plane, in the car, etc so that you have some work done before you ever get your files to you Mac.

SO simple. use the scroll wheel to jog and the buttons to delete, trim etc. The res on the screen doesn't need to be great - just good enough so that you can get the idea of what you're seeing. There are already cameras that do this - why shouldn't the iPod?

The same goes for photos from you Digital Camera.

Also consider this - iPod :: Mac as GameBodyAdvanced :: GameCube. You could use your color screen to display a small map for Quake or other shooters. Maybe a rear-view mirror sort of option. Who knows?

iPod as TiVo is a good idea as well.

In short - the iPod is primed to be a great "Swiss Army Knife" for nearly every digital lifestyle use.

The possibilities are endless.

JayBee

Sep 25, 2003, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by Hmm
An interesting idea, but Griffin is already using the name.
Powerpod (http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/powerpodauto/) Hasn't stopped them before (http://www.ibook.com/) ;)

rDLr

Sep 25, 2003, 12:02 PM

It would be nice to have your iPhoto library on the iPod.

Also the ability to display picture covers from your AAC & Mp3's.

And of course a color screen to see all these beautiful images.

Badtz Maru

Sep 25, 2003, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by From Win to Mac
What goes on in Apple's "Special Projects Group" ?

...

We must know !

First Google result from search "special projects group" apple:

http://www.tapsns.com/members-bio/tony-fadell.shtml

Check the handheld credentials...

iLilana

Sep 25, 2003, 12:58 PM

I would sell my neighbor's children for an iPod Handheld with even palm/pocketpc functionality... wow... 1gig arm processor aughta do it.. get on it boys and girls and don't forget to make a handheld osx. Call it OSH or HHX.

Heck I might sell my own kids for that.

or tablet style laptop pleeeeze.

Squire

Sep 25, 2003, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by bankshot
...As it currently stands, I can either have gapless playback by ripping an entire album to one track in iTunes or I can have the ability to skip around among individual tracks by ripping normally, but not both.

I know what you mean. You CAN have gapless playback and separate tracks when you burn a CD. Although I think it reduces the volume at the end of each track. Not sure, though.

...I realize that most iPod users probably don't care enough about this and thus my feedback to Apple probably falls on deaf ears. But I can dream, right? :) Honestly I think it would be fairly easy to do, but would require a slight change in the implementations of both iTunes and the iPod firmware. Simply allow iTunes to rip an album as a single gapless file, but also save an index of where all the tracks start, maybe as metadata within the file. Then either iTunes or the iPod can play the whole thing through as one continuous audio stream, but it can also show current track information and skip around within the file to different tracks.

It seems odd that this feature is available when you burn a CD but not when you export to an iPod. I agree, it seems like it would be easy to accomplish and I think it would be nice.

Squire

jbondo

Sep 25, 2003, 06:38 PM

I personally believe that Apple is working on some sort of mobile iChat capabilities that will be incorporated into an iPod-like device, if not the iPod itself.

Jay

Macco

Sep 25, 2003, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by mangoman
iPod as PDA....

*sigh*

Here we freakin' go again...

Could someone please explain to me why it would be so bad to add PDA functionality to an iPod. I mean, you could just plug in a portable keyboard to the bottom of the iPod and type away. Doesn't seem like it would be too difficult, maybe just a firmware update.

Ooh I just got a great idea. How about a docking station with a bluetooth chip for the new wireless keyboard? Finally, one of those things might actually be useful.

<edit> Finally, I'm a member. A male member... hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!

...dies laughing at his own really bad sense of humor...

macphoria

Sep 25, 2003, 08:32 PM

never understood ipod users who'd like to see video on their ipod, screen is too small imho.

games is one area of the ipod which would be sweet to improve upon.

space invaders, chess, dig-dug, tetris, tempest(now that would be cool) etc etc

or at least apple give an option to dl extras
I think ability to play movie on iPod would be cool. It could work like this. From iMovie, you could have an Export option for iPod, hook up iPod and Export the movie to iPod. Then you can show your movie to friends and etc.

The games on iPod can definitely improve. There are so many classic games that would be perfect for iPod platform.

Evan Laurie

Sep 25, 2003, 10:52 PM

I think it would be cool i the iPod could play movies not on the iPod but to an AV port. It would also be cool if iPod could read keynote and Power Point presentations. Then you could hulk it up to a TV and give a presentation from your iPod.
Just a thought

busonerd

Sep 26, 2003, 01:05 AM

Without a major hardware update, the iPod will never play mpeg2 video, encode mp3's on the fly, or anything like that. It simply is not possible in my opinion. Unlike most (if not all) of the posters here, I have source code on my hard drive that I have written that I can run on my ipod so I have a _VERY_ good idea of what can be done and what cannot.

Remember ipodlinux? we couldn't even get mp3 decoding real time with a linux kernel underneath. if you expect to get mp3 encoding or video decoding, on the current hardware, you are dreaming.

{post-Post note, I just read the video encoding, and if you think you're gonna be able to get video from a dv camera to an ipod, you're obviously dreaming. The firewire controller is a mass storage controller. It acts like a drive. It can be made to send and recieve custom messages using a connection between it and the processor, but that is nowhere near fast enough to stream dv video from the camera. As well, my g3-400 stalls when importing video from a dv camera, What do you expect a dual 88mhz arm processor with a 66mhz hard drive connection to do?}

macphoria

Sep 26, 2003, 03:47 AM

Without a major hardware update, the iPod will never play mpeg2 video, encode mp3's on the fly, or anything like that. It simply is not possible in my opinion. Unlike most (if not all) of the posters here, I have source code on my hard drive that I have written that I can run on my ipod so I have a _VERY_ good idea of what can be done and what cannot.

Remember ipodlinux? we couldn't even get mp3 decoding real time with a linux kernel underneath. if you expect to get mp3 encoding or video decoding, on the current hardware, you are dreaming.

Now now. I think you should give Apple little more credit than that. I'm sure they can come up with a solution if that's what they want to do. And current hardware might not be up to the task as you say, I just don't know enough about iPod's hardware as much as you do. But we are talking about future possibilities. I think iPod has great potential to be more than what it is now, a music player. Maybe some kind of personal interactive multi-media device. Apple failed with Newton. They might be taking a different route this time.

FlamDrag

Sep 26, 2003, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by busonerd
Without a major hardware update, the iPod will never play mpeg2 video, encode mp3's on the fly, or anything like that. It simply is not possible in my opinion.

[snip]

{post-Post note, I just read the video encoding, and if you think you're gonna be able to get video from a dv camera to an ipod, you're obviously dreaming. The firewire controller is a mass storage controller. It acts like a drive. It can be made to send and recieve custom messages using a connection between it and the processor, but that is nowhere near fast enough to stream dv video from the camera. As well, my g3-400 stalls when importing video from a dv camera, What do you expect a dual 88mhz arm processor with a 66mhz hard drive connection to do?}

Ah yes - without some sort of hardware upgrade. I guess I had expected that we were already talking about a hardware upgrade considering the tone of the thread already.

It seems feasible that you could buffer the data to tape and let the iPod catch up as it can. Possibly, you still need to record directly to tape, but it has some sort of raw capture system built in so that you can just plug in and capture.

It's also conceiveable that this functionality could be added as some sort of iPod accessory.

Since you seem to know - and I'm not saying that in a smart ass sort of way - how much of a problem would it be to incorporate some sort of RAW image decoder in there so that you could preview high-end digital SLR images on an iPod. Of course you can't do it now, but let's say they just added a color screen or something else "minor"?

usarioclave

Sep 26, 2003, 11:15 AM

I was thinking about how to extend the iPod the other day, and it's obvious!

The new iPods are dock-based. That means that Apple can create new docks with new capabilities.

For video, you can have a dock that has a firewire port and translates to the firewire disk in the iPod. It also might have video-out (AUX/RCA) as well as a firewire port (for the iSight, etc).

For importing pictures, you have a dock that is a 6-in-1 reader. It'd be excellent - no need to bring your laptop when you shoot, just offload everything to your iPod.

For recording, you have a line-in dock...or maybe a line-in/line-out dock?

FlamDrag

Sep 26, 2003, 11:43 AM

While you have a point - it doesn't strike me as Apple's style (not that they couldn't change) to sell 5 different specialty docks. Which leads us back to the old rumor of the 'pro-dock' or 'super-dock" which never seemed like a bad idea. However, a dock doesn't strike me as mobile a solution as I would like. Mainly because it's difficult to carry around a dock w/o the iPod falling out. Again, this is with streaming video capture in mind, or possibly non-streaming but mobile.

Realistically, what I'm thinking of would probably come from a 3rd party vendor.

Sounda a bit too involved for Griffin though.

ImageMaker

Sep 30, 2003, 12:00 PM

A relatively easy upgrade for the iPod, that would have great value is the capability to double as a portable storage device for digital photos. They could ship it with a multi-adapter of some sort, that plugs into the firewire port, and allows fast downloading of digital images. It would also need a color screen to preview images. The wheel would be great for scrolling around on images.

A key thing is that the new color screen needs to have high enough resolution so that images can be inspected closely for dust. With digital SLRs, dust can find it's way onto the sensor, and with most portable image storage devices, you can't see it until you get to a real computer. So, a high-res screen is key.

bennetsaysargh

Sep 30, 2003, 07:55 PM

argh. again with the color screens.
iPods will not have color screens!
if they do, it wouldn't be the same kind of iPod we all now today. i do think that the digital camera thing is needed and can be done, but i think that a color screen is not necessary.

ImageMaker

Sep 30, 2003, 08:21 PM

Won't work without the color screen. See my second paragraph. The whole idea is to be able to travel without a computer. But it is critical to be able to inspect for dust on your sensor periodically. A spec of dust on your sensor will be on every image thereafter and is a real PITA to Photoshop out of each frame.

Of course, it would work if you are using a low end digicam without interchangeable lenses.

bennetsaysargh

Oct 1, 2003, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by ImageMaker
Of course, it would work if you are using a low end digicam without interchangeable lenses.

like a lot of people who would use it are.
i would be happy enough if i could clear away the card, so that's what i would want it to do.

ingenious

Feb 3, 2004, 08:37 PM

Hey Apple- Are you listening? Microsoft's coming out with a personal video player and you're just brushing it off? If you don't get a jump on the market, MS will shove you out of the way. People just don't understand the value of the mac until they've used OS X. I was a complete Windows all they way kind of guy until Jaguar. I saw the light.

Look into the video iPod (vPod?) It's cool, but bigger screen or tv in and out and imovie exporting please!

Caleb

Mafia00

Feb 4, 2004, 06:17 AM

Originally posted by crap freakboy

space invaders, chess, dig-dug, tetris, tempest(now that would be cool) etc etc

or at least apple give an option to dl extras

Tetris on a color screened iPod would rule

agentmouthwash

Feb 4, 2004, 09:44 AM

More games would be a plus.
Also people want a way to view album cover art on the ipod.

One of the most requested features is actually a built in radio.

Mac Dummy

Feb 4, 2004, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Squire
I don't see the point of a video iPod, either. However, as people have mentioned in past threads, being able to plug your digicam in and load up the iPod's HD with pictures... THAT would be useful- better than an IBM Microdrive.

I, too, would like to see more PDA-like features on an iPod. I think Apple missed out on the wave, though.

Squire

I would like to see the Ipod or something like it take on PDA functionality too. Maybe Apple could get it to run a minature version of Panther.:D No seriously.

Penman

Feb 4, 2004, 08:22 PM

Here's why the video iPod will happen. Definately. no question.

Videos.

The record companies have mountains of very expensive videos they've never made any money from. With a video iPod they can sell the videos (and other footage) for an additional fee. It's the new revenuw stream the record business is dying for. Now they've realized the power of digital content they'd be insane not to monetize the content that MTV refuses to play. Suddenly every playlist is a TV channel and with a wire (or not) you can stream it all to your TV or stereo.

Screens are now good to go (look at the 2.5 inch job on the Sony T1 digicam) and Apple might even choose what I call 'viewfinder video' to save battery life. It'd be like looking into a camera and you'd have an eyepiece and a tiny high res screen (again see the latest digicams). The iPod as a display device doesn't have to go along with video content.

Personally I think they'll use video as an excuse to go to the cheaper, faster, higher capacity 2.5 inch drives and just hide the size increase with the addition of a screen.

If you don't want video you'll still have your iPod mini. Convergence is so 90's. Everyone I know has an iPod a cell phone and a camera. The interfaces are too dissimilar to make one device the perfect solution for all three. Look at the iPod itself. It only (really) does music but people love it because it does it well. Apple will add functionality but will resist going too far. It's more profitable to sell you another device than one that tries to do everything in a medioccre way. Apple are the interface company after all (if it wasn't for Panther and hardware design I'd be writing this on a cheaper, faster notebook).

I'm not wrong about this. Trust me ;-)

iMeowbot

Feb 4, 2004, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by crap freakboy
never understood ipod users who'd like to see video on their ipod, screen is too small imho.

On the other hand, little TV sets with 2.5" displays from the likes of Casio are still quite popular. For comparison, the current iPod has a 2" display.

iMeowbot

Feb 4, 2004, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by Penman
Videos.

...and people wanting to bore their their friends the latest cute thing their kids or pets did, or wanting to goof off at work discreetly, or catching last night's very special episode of whatever on the train....

windowsblowsass

Feb 5, 2004, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by displaced
Wow - you're right - Tempest would be fantastic with the scroll wheel!

(I'm one of the 8 or so people who bought an Atari Jaguar. I don't think Tempest 2000 has left the cartridge slot in 7 years or so... fantastic game).

As for video, I agree. Really can't see any point beyond the gee-wizz factor, and that's one of the strengths of the iPod - all its functionality is genuinely useful. I'd hate to see that tarnished.

Of course, if it employed some kind of holographic projection system, or direct retinal interface, that'd be groovy.

(edit: just in case anyone thought I was being serious, here's a ;) ) me too imagine 2 people with a atari jaguar on one website amazing it really is asmall world;)

windowsblowsass

Feb 5, 2004, 04:52 PM

with 40gig hard drives and arms running up to 400mhz ithink apple could make the ipod into a fullfledged mac w/ the attachment of a key board and anew screen

floatingspirit

Feb 5, 2004, 05:45 PM

They could at least make it possible to change text font sizes! Anyone know any hacks or dl's that enable that? I have a lot of notes that I'd like to enlarge to a more readable size.

Penman

Feb 5, 2004, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by iMeowbot
...and people wanting to bore their their friends the latest cute thing their kids or pets did, or wanting to goof off at work discreetly, or catching last night's very special episode of whatever on the train....

Exactly - with a camera in every phone and DV quality video possible for under $100 it has to happen. Images always replace audio as the #1 application aside from environments that require the user to look about (e.g. in the car).

This is a little speculative but it seems smart for Apple to enable the iSight2 to be plugged straight into the video iPod to make a super mobil HD camcorder. If they pushed the sensor to 1280x720 (.25 HD) they'd have a huge market of budding videomakers to play with and the iPod would be doing things PC's just can't. All the control could be in software and iSights could be sold ranging from pen-sized basic jobs for $100 through to high-end filmaker specials for $2000.

Damn. I want one.

doogle

Feb 5, 2004, 06:54 PM

I think there are lots of minor things that can be done first with embeded apps that may not be as exciting as some wish.
The Games thing is obvious - I also think a calculator is a good idea, i am working on an interface design prototype for an ipod calculator...does anyone know of a company who might be interested in developing such a concept?...just a thought.

oh yeah like the sig says bring the Home folder to the ipod!

TMay

Feb 5, 2004, 07:07 PM

I understand the attraction of ARM, but, IBM recently demoed a PDA platform (linux) using the 440LP PPC. So, I'm asking why we can't have a stripped down OSX on these embedded PPC's and develop apps in AppleScript Studio, Java, Cocoa or whatever.

This, to my thinking, would really be the logical convergence of computer and applicance.

bennetsaysargh

Feb 5, 2004, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by doogle
I think there are lots of minor things that can be done first with embeded apps that may not be as exciting as some wish.
The Games thing is obvious - I also think a calculator is a good idea, i am working on an interface design prototype for an ipod calculator...does anyone know of a company who might be interested in developing such a concept?...just a thought.

oh yeah like the sig says bring the Home folder to the ipod!

i am totally in favor of a calculator on the iPod. besides that, hooking a DV camcorder up to it and using that instead of a tape. like the belkin thing, only for video instead of audio.

other things too like maybe a little more viewing customization for the now playing screen, tetris, and the home folder on the iPod feature.

iMeowbot

Feb 5, 2004, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by TMay
I understand the attraction of ARM, but, IBM recently demoed a PDA platform (linux) using the 440LP PPC. So, I'm asking why we can't have a stripped down OSX on these embedded PPC's and develop apps in AppleScript Studio, Java, Cocoa or whatever.

For the audio iPod, Apple went with ARM because that's the architecture the PortalPlayer chips use. The design and packaging are all Apple, but they deliberately chose to use off-the-shelf components where they could.

Given where Apple have been buying their iPod guts, this page (http://www.portalplayer.com/products/platforms_future.html) should offer some pretty good hints about what later versions will look like.

CalfCanuck

Feb 6, 2004, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by ImageMaker
Won't work without the color screen. See my second paragraph. The whole idea is to be able to travel without a computer. But it is critical to be able to inspect for dust on your sensor periodically. A spec of dust on your sensor will be on every image thereafter and is a real PITA to Photoshop out of each frame.

Of course, it would work if you are using a low end digicam without interchangeable lenses.
You're mixing up 2 things here for the photographer - portability versus total information. If one must be away from a computer for a week or two, then why would having to retouch every photo be a problem? Do you even have ONE photo that doesn't need some sort of digital darkroom work? I can't think of one in my 30 years of shooting.

So while a color screen might seem nice, it's small size wold merely be another complaint. Remember, it's a light and portable versus bulky and comprehensive tradeoff. Once you start replicating a laptop, then why not use a laptop?

As a photographer I have an old mind@work unit as part of my kit - a 10GB hard drive set up from 3 years ago that allowed uploading of photos while travelling light. No display at all.

Is it the ideal rig? No.

Do I often take it versus my laptop to save 10 lb. (w/ the laptop gear)? Yes.

Engagebot

Feb 6, 2004, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by nagromme
Sony makes LCD glasses that create a virtual big-screen TV several feet in front of you. It can be transparent, or it can block out everything if you wish. They come in TV and VGA-connected versions. (The VGA one can be a computer display--but only 800x600 I think.)

They're expensive and the quality's not great. But they COULD one day make portable video doable with an iPod!

Meanwhile--a Tetris clone, please! Wheel to move left/right, button to rotate. the fast-drop option isn't vital.

And a grayscale visualizer would be fun.

I also think image-viewing would be practical, added to Notes maybe. You could view driving maps saved from Mapquest for instance, or show photos to someone in grasycale. Video doesn't seem as useful.

yeah, i had a pair of those for a while. its called Glasstron, and it sucks horribly. you cant see through the display no matter what any advertisements say. and the lcd screens are so small, and magnified so huge in the glasses, the pixels look like the size of my head. basically a low resolution color Virtual Boy (if you remember what that was)

Engagebot

Feb 6, 2004, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by bennetsaysargh
i am totally in favor of a calculator on the iPod. besides that, hooking a DV camcorder up to it and using that instead of a tape. like the belkin thing, only for video instead of audio.

other things too like maybe a little more viewing customization for the now playing screen, tetris, and the home folder on the iPod feature.

i was talking with somebody else about this earlier. you cant capture straight onto an ipod from a camera unless you've got a 7200rpm drive in that 'pod. full raw dv is bigger than you may realize.

Engagebot

Feb 6, 2004, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Penman
Here's why the video iPod will happen. Definately. no question.

Videos.

The record companies have mountains of very expensive videos they've never made any money from. With a video iPod they can sell the videos (and other footage) for an additional fee. It's the new revenuw stream the record business is dying for. Now they've realized the power of digital content they'd be insane not to monetize the content that MTV refuses to play. Suddenly every playlist is a TV channel and with a wire (or not) you can stream it all to your TV or stereo.

Screens are now good to go (look at the 2.5 inch job on the Sony T1 digicam) and Apple might even choose what I call 'viewfinder video' to save battery life. It'd be like looking into a camera and you'd have an eyepiece and a tiny high res screen (again see the latest digicams). The iPod as a display device doesn't have to go along with video content.

Personally I think they'll use video as an excuse to go to the cheaper, faster, higher capacity 2.5 inch drives and just hide the size increase with the addition of a screen.

If you don't want video you'll still have your iPod mini. Convergence is so 90's. Everyone I know has an iPod a cell phone and a camera. The interfaces are too dissimilar to make one device the perfect solution for all three. Look at the iPod itself. It only (really) does music but people love it because it does it well. Apple will add functionality but will resist going too far. It's more profitable to sell you another device than one that tries to do everything in a medioccre way. Apple are the interface company after all (if it wasn't for Panther and hardware design I'd be writing this on a cheaper, faster notebook).

I'm not wrong about this. Trust me ;-)

i disagree. as much as i'm a fan of iTMS, the rest of the world isnt quite up to speed. selling videos online just wouldnt work right now. and only the super-techie nerds like ourselves would even give a rip about watching music videos on a 2 inch screen with earbuds. the small amount of people who would even care dont offset the huge costs in launching such a system.

the ipod plays music, and it plays music extremely well. the ipod will have graphic EQs, internal FM transmitters, and maybe even XM radio recievers before it'll have video capability with an online video-iTMS.

Penman

Feb 6, 2004, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by Engagebot
i disagree. as much as i'm a fan of iTMS, the rest of the world isnt quite up to speed.

I've got to disagree. I've been personally involved in coming up with some of the most successful online sales models and you're not seeing the market because it doesn't exist.

It's the argument against NetFlix (and I was in some of those conversations) "No one will wait 3 days for a movie when there's a blockbuster on every corner."

They do. Lots of them. Video's are there now, kids love TV. The display on an iPod can be trivial. With wireless connectivity and better display devices (like TV's) people will buy - in the same way they buy DVD's but most people can only watch them in one location. While your on the move your video files will be treated like audio by most people, most of the time (the display won't even be on unless you want it). When you do - or have a bigger screen to plug into, bingo.

Think protable TIVO (and with enough capacity there's no reason the ViPod couldn't share some of that capability too).

Though I'm a nerd (ish) I don't use iTMS because the file quality isn't worth my money over a CD I can buy for almost the same price. When we can go lossless into devices these compressed files will be seen for what they are by people into quality.

bennetsaysargh

Feb 6, 2004, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by Engagebot
i was talking with somebody else about this earlier. you cant capture straight onto an ipod from a camera unless you've got a 7200rpm drive in that 'pod. full raw dv is bigger than you may realize.

well, i can dream, can't i?
;)

now that i think about it, it would also be pretty inconvenient unless the camera was made by a company and they had it running attached like an iTrip to the iPod. maybe they couold work on some way, and you can hook an iSight up to it for budding film makers, hook it up to your mac, load iMovie, and edit. not exactly the best quality, but still.

Engagebot

Feb 6, 2004, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by Penman
I've got to disagree. I've been personally involved in coming up with some of the most successful online sales models and you're not seeing the market because it doesn't exist.

so what exactly are you responsible for creating?

there's no way they're going to put up a video type iTMS. if this caught on in any kind of big way that would even warrant this whole system being devleoped, we dont have the bandwidth capability for consumers to be downloading 30MB files in the quantity it would take to keep this system afloat.

unlimited real video rentals online from netflix is one thing. people buy and actually use DVDs. but purchasing download music videos for your 2" ipod screen is not going to work. at least not for a few years.

and another thing. you'll never have a super-small compressed lossless file format for super-complex analog signals. thats a contradiction in terms. yes they're getting good and small, but you'll never have tiny and lossless. you cant create data from nowhere.

Penman

Feb 6, 2004, 07:39 PM

True - tiny and lossless is impossible. I can't tell you who I am or too much detail because I don't want to get into any trouble. Let it be said that I have a degree in Physics and understand compression to a reasonable technical level.

Small and lossless is fine (look at Zip utilities for the state of the art) and storage is getting cheaper.

As for the iTMS - it can add video or not. Someone will. You'll be able to buy music only or music and video.

I'm surprized you find this hard to believe. It's easy to do and inevitable. People buy the weirdest things. Remember before DVD - who thought there was a market for movie making extras (for sale!) People pay $35 dollars to watch hours of film-making minutae that used to be only fit for the cheapest TV programming.

There's nothing technical or philisophical in the way of this. The devices already exist from other supplieres and the music industry's on the ropes. DVD will go HD and SD content will go downloadable. You'll have No Doubt and Sienfeld with you wherever you go.

Xgreed

Feb 8, 2004, 02:00 PM

I think, the future of iPods can be seen when looking at what Philips is working on:

http://monetdb.cwi.nl/amdb/amdb/alexander_sinitsyn.pdf

think about it as a mobile digital hub - as opposed to static digital hubs!

cheers

serioussmilies

Feb 8, 2004, 07:12 PM

In the early/mid 90's there wasn't the bandwidth to move music digitally, consumer desktops could store about an hour or so of it and even the best laptops would struggle and only music nuts had 10,000 songs.
So I can only get 10 'good' quality movies on my top of the line powerbook now, like I could take a few tape/cd's on holiday before the iPod and even over reasonable broadband it takes a few hours to download one (no legal sites to do this - iTunesMovieStore?) but in 6-12 months this will look downright silly.

So ViPod =100 gig iPod is a dozen DVD quality movies, a screen of about the quality of a Palm T3 so I could watch it in the back of a car/bus/train/plane/waiting room/holiday resort/etc and a socket to put it on some mass display system and Apple have my £500. In less than a couple of years I'll be able to fold the screen and wear it as a watch...and it will hold move movies than I now own, I'll be able to watch whatever I fancy at the time not just what I thought I'd want to watch 2 weeks previously and I could download new ones with a single click.

This can only be the first stage but then so was the original iPod.