Dell Digital Jukebox and Dell Music Store

[MacRumors]

Dell announced today (http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030925/255413_1.html) that will be introducing a digital music player as well as an online music store ("Dell Music Store") in time for this holiday season.

Dell is also introducing a new software application -- the Dell Media Experience -- which "converts the PC into a digital entertainment center".

Very few details are provided about the upcoming device and service.

The Dell Digital Jukebox (DJ) is simply described as "a digital music player featuring a sleek design, with large storage capacity, excellent battery life and easy-to-use controls." Details on the Music Store are even more limited and is said to offer "thousands of music selections" with integration with the Dell DJ.

Dell DJ: High Resolution Photo (http://www.chaosmint.com/macintosh/articles/dell-dj-digital-jukebox-h.shtml)

[trilogic]

sounds familiar

isn't there another company offering the same?

[crap freakboy]

nice buttons

[MoparShaha]

Everyone is jumping on the bandwagon. That music player is such a blatant rip-off of the iPod. I really wish the iTMS for windows would hurry up and get here.

[shecky]

thats the iPod equivalent of Sloth from "The Goonies"

yuck

[mgargan1]

i do think there is one company that is making a product that looks very similar to that... and don't they have their own music store as well...?

What i'd like to know is how they're going to compete with the apple music store, cause a lot of PC people hate dell even more than mac people. Most PC people atleast respect apple for making a great design, they just don't not having a lot of choices. I think that the Dell store is not going to be as strong as Apple's, only because Dell number one concern is not the consumer, but small and large businesses.

[dho]

The D-pod?

[lmalave]

Size and Price point will be the key here. The Creative Nomad Zen already offers a 20GB player for less than $250, so Dell will either have to come in cheaper or smaller than that (the Zens are quite a bit bulkier than the iPods). If Dell can offer something like the rumored 15GB player, have it be the same dimensions and weight as an iPod, and sell it for something like $250, then I think they'd have a winner on their hands.

I actually like the Dell scrolly thingy and button layout. The iPod's scroll wheel is actually harder to control. It's a really unnatural motion to have to move your thumb in circles. Straight up and down is much more efficient.

[billyb]

i think i'd be embarrassed to so blatantly rip off another company's machine and store. at least put the screen in a different location or something. and maybe a different name for the store, rather than just changing the brand name in front of 'music store.'

[Mineral]

Have they no shame? Seriously.

Screw em.:rolleyes:

[drjekyl]

Imitation is the best form of flattery

[AndrewMT]

First of all, that mp3 player is the ugliest thing I have ever seen. Why do all the menus on all these new mp3 players look exactly like the menu on the iPod?

Secondly, you know that Dell is going to price their music at $.89 cents a song and your mom and pop who know nothing about computers will buy you this mp3 player b/c they saw the dell geeks playing with it on a commercial. I also imagine that the player itself will cost roughly $100 less than the same iPod of equal capacity. There are still a lot of people who don't know much about the world of electronic music or at least mp3 players and they will be ready to dive in this holiday season. Apple better come out with some pretty memorable commercials for their iTunes store and player because you know there is going to be a dell commercial for this every 10 seconds.

[Maxx Power]

Not naming any names here, but I would definitely NEVER, EVER buy from a company that hires temporary prison workers to "recycle" by dumping unwanted, old, used, etc, poisonous equipments somewhere in third world countries and infringe upon our fellow humans rights, a company that would value a few dollars of savings per unit weight over the agony and suffering of others.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7134

[dbally]

Even though maybe people have an intense dislike for Dells, maybe more people either dislike them less or are at least aware of the company as 'computer related'. I'd choose an ipod over the ipodell any day but I can't help but think about people who will be searching for mp3 players for the holidays (for gifts) and unwittingly buy the dell because they know the name, even if the quality isn't there.

Just my .02


AdrewMT just beat me to it. . . glad I'm not the only one this these thoughts.

[peetola]

When in doubt, copy Apple.

That used to be Microsoft's slogan, but I guess other companies adopting it now. The sick part is that most of my PC using friends will be coming to me saying "Dell is making the PC into the center of the Dell Media Experience." Then I'd say "similar to say, a digital hub?" Soon after which, I'd proceed to tell them about FireWire and floppy drives and trackpads and etc...

When will the public learn? Everyone else is two steps behind Apple?

[kb9000]

some of the beauty of the iPod is in it's ability to be operated fluidly... the Dell Juke's scroll wheel looks like it would take lots of turning...

[e2chris]

99% Windows users use Kazaa anyway so I dont think it is that important... It would be nice if Apple had the ITMs for Windows but I just dont see it making much money. Anyone know how that other music store is doing(windows)?? I forgot the webaddress. The one that had the same commercials as Apples.

[jayscheuerle]

This is the best thing to come out since low-carb bread!

Those innovative pioneers at Dell have done it again. Why in the world, if you're going to copy something, would you make every effort to make it appear like a lower-rent version of the original? Probably because, price-point-wise, Dell's specialty is low-rent for those to whom price is everything and design is the thing at the end of deroad.

One add-on that Dell will never have for its products is "coolness-factor", regardless of specs. You don't get that from following... - j

[Sol]

Why would people choose the Dell Digital Jukebox over an iPod? It looks like a cheap rip-off and the iPod is allready compatible with Windows.

[TheFish]

As much as i hate to admit it, i think the dj things looks cooler and easier to use than the ipod. i have a third generation 10 gig ipod and the whole touch interface can really drive me mad when it dosnt register after i hit the button, if this thing is cheaper than the ipod id say apple has a big problem.

[copperpipe]

"I actually like the Dell scrolly thingy and button layout. The iPod's scroll wheel is actually harder to control. It's a really unnatural motion to have to move your thumb in circles. Straight up and down is much more efficient."

So you're saying you've already had ample time using Dells product? I would think that an up and down scroll wheel will run out and you will have to move your hand back up to continue scrolling, whereas Apples you can continuously scroll. I've had no problem with my thumb scrolling in circles whatsoever. It's weird, because you talk with such, ...authority

[e2chris]

Originally posted by copperpipe
"I actually like the Dell scrolly thingy and button layout. The iPod's scroll wheel is actually harder to control. It's a really unnatural motion to have to move your thumb in circles. Straight up and down is much more efficient."

So you're saying you've already had ample time using Dells product? I would think that an up and down scroll wheel will run out and you will have to move your hand back up to continue scrolling, whereas Apples you can continuously scroll. I've had no problem with my thumb scrolling in circles whatsoever. It's weird, because you talk with such, ...authority

I wonder why Apple even thinks they need a scroll wheel. I thought one button was more there style... Like the lame mouses... lol had to do it...

[raschild]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Those innovative pioneers at Dell have done it again. Why in the world, if you're going to copy something, would you make every effort to make it appear like a lower-rent version of the original? Probably because, price-point-wise, Dell's specialty is low-rent for those to whom price is everything and design is the thing at the end of deroad.

One add-on that Dell will never have for its products is "coolness-factor", regardless of specs. You don't get that from following... - j

Couldn't have said it better myself. I don't think the Dell store will pose a significant threat to Apple's iTMS. The only threat might be to iPod sales, if Dell gets a good price point on their player. The loss of sales would be minimal, though, as only the iPod plays AAC files from Apple's music store, and it's way cooler than the Dell DJ.

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by TheFish
As much as i hate to admit it, i think the dj things looks cooler and easier to use than the ipod.

Dude, get a Dell!

This design has the look of late 70's stereo and video equipment, with its little chrome buttons and thick chunky frame. If that frame was wood instead of white plastic, it would be perfect.

Ugh, ill, EEEEEEEE!!!

[Flowbee]

So the question is... will Dell continue to sell the iPod alongside of the dellPod? They might, just to call attention to the fact that theirs is less expensive. What do you think?

[kcshaffe]

While the Dell DJ is certainly a rip off, I really do not personally care. I have had my iPod for over a year and love it. I do not care what else is on the market.

[alset]

Originally posted by e2chris
99% Windows users use Kazaa anyway so I dont think it is that important... It would be nice if Apple had the ITMs for Windows but I just dont see it making much money. Anyone know how that other music store is doing(windows)?? I forgot the webaddress. The one that had the same commercials as Apples.

You are thinking of buymusic.com? Apple really is getting screwed, between them, Dell, and M$. I can't hink about this anymore. It's making me depressed.

Dan

[weev]

Originally posted by trilogic
sounds familiar

isn't there another company offering the same?

No, it's breath-takingly fresh and new - typical Dell.

They put the 'c' in innovate.

Lovethemtheirwholegenre

[Wonder Boy]

Bullsh|t. They even copied the white frame.

Yet, i cant help but be angry at apple for dropping the ball and not realeasing itunes for windows yet. If they had that out, i think pc users wouldnt bother to use dell. way to go.

[phillymjs]

If I ran Dell, I'd close it down and give the money back to the shareholders. :-)

Must everyone follow a successful Apple product with their own half-assed, 'me too' version of it? No wonder Apple now patents and trademarks everything they do, almost to the point of ridiculousness. This Dell thing looks similar enough to the iPod that maybe Apple should kick around the idea of filing another 'trade dress' suit, a la the Future Power eOne-- I mean, since practically everything else Dell makes is dark in color, it seems mighty suspicious to me that this is the same color as its direct competitor.

At least the iPod has enough 'street cred' amongst the target market that no amount of B.S. marketing from Dell will make people think they did it first. The only way Dell will move very many of these things is by irrevocably bundling them "free" with their systems. I predict we'll start seeing a lot of them on eBay after a while, and then the product will die a quiet, relatively quick death like Dell's iMac wanna-be, the WebPC.

~Philly

[e2chris]

The music companies must be eating this up right now. Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and the Dell dude all knocking on there doors trying to get them to sign up. If they were smart they would just do it themselves. The music companies that is.

[zedwards]

Wow, some ppl here really get bent out of shape and emotional here. :p

Dell's website is a big ol mess, its amazing they sell computers on it. Is this a pre-release announcement or is this thing/store supposedly located somewhere on their website?

[Hawthorne]

Michael Dell announced that the Dell Digital Jukebox was the first affordable mp3 player that combined stylish good looks, ease of use and large capacity, and the Dell Music Store will be the first time a consumer can easily and legally download music from the internet. This follows the other innovations Dell is known for, such as being the first to integrate wireless into a notebook computer (http://www.appleturns.com/scene/?id=3270) .

The man has no shame whatsoever. :rolleyes:

Bring on iTMS for Windows!

[thogs_cave]

Originally posted by lmalave
I actually like the Dell scrolly thingy and button layout. The iPod's scroll wheel is actually harder to control. It's a really unnatural motion to have to move your thumb in circles. Straight up and down is much more efficient.

Funny, I feel just the opposite - the scroll wheel seems to feel quite natural to me. I bought one of the original 5G iPods when they were released, and I'm so used to the interface that I can operate it without looking at it.

As for Dell's product, it looks O.K., but Apple has already been in the game longer and proved that they can innovate - so far all I see from Dell is "me too". Not that that's bad, but I expect that the better products will continue to come from Apple. ;-)

[e2chris]

Originally posted by zedwards
Wow, some ppl here really get bent out of shape and emotional here. :p

Dell's website is a big ol mess, its amazing they sell computers on it. Is this a pre-release announcement or is this thing/store supposedly located somewhere on their website?

The article said Dell will be releasing it by the holiday season. To me this sounds like Christmas of this year. You agree? hehe

[DGFan]

Originally posted by peetola

When will the public learn? Everyone else is two steps behind Apple?

Don't you mean....

When will Apple tell the public that it is two steps ahead of everyone else?


Actually I think this is already happening with the iTunes Music Store and iPod. Now it needs to happen with the rest of their lineup.

[e2chris]

This is good I feel. Hopefully it will drop the prices of the ipods. I think they are kinda expensive personally. And it will also make them compete for adding new functions to it. You can see in the pic that the Dell one allows you to record voice. I know that this is a hiden feature in the new ipods but I never followed up with it to see if it works. But competition is normal people.

[QCassidy352]

when I saw this, at first I thought it was a joke. I still kinda can't believe it's real.

This is so blatent a rip off it almost seems like it should consitute copyright infringement (yeah, I know that it's not actually).

What exactly do Dell "think tank" employees get paid for?? I'm got a proposal for Dell - fire the guys you've got now, hire me at half their salary, and I'll give you exactly the same good ideas by periodically linking you to my website of innovative brilliance. (http://www.apple.com)

[niter]

I am a bit new here, and I feel like I am going to get flammed for this, but what is really the big deal.

Honestly, I am thrilled with the fact that Dell is coming out with this product. Would I still prefer an iPod, of course. I guess, I just like good competition because it keeps the companys rolling. When this hits the market, there will be a surge of PC users buying this. There will still be the people that drool over the Apple products and they will buy Apple. I am not so worried about people copying Apple products because it just pushes Apple to create more.


Maybe it is because I just bought my first Apple, but I do not see what the big deal is about the PC vs. Apple users. Even on PC forums, everyone all gets into a tizzy about this issue. I decided to switch my main computer over to a Mac because it fits my lifestyle and what I expect to get out a computer. My fiance loves the look of my Mac, but he is keeping his cheaper PC because all he uses a computer is for Internet, Word, Powerpoint, and Excel. He has consoles for his games. For him a PC fits. For me a Mac fits. It is not a big deal at all. So why is it such a big deal to others? I do not want to hear, "oooooooh, you are switching to a Mac, ewwww." Who really cares. I love my Mac, but I love my PC laptop too. So what!?

So what if Dell makes this product! Great, competition is always good for the consumer.

[ALoLA]

With my 5GB 1st Gen iPod, the more songs I put on it, the more I appreciate the scroll wheel. Try thumb-scrolling through dozens of playlists or hundreds of songs. It's like trying to use the scroll button on a mouse to scroll down a really long page. Talk about repetitive motion injury! ;)

[Mr.Hey]

And filthy PeeCee user doubts the genius that is Steve Jobs...we'll always have this info and I'll use it hang it over their heads every chance I get (cause I'm a prick like that). :D

[spinner]

One other thing the dellPod is not going to have is the word of mouth props that the ipod has been receiving. I was surprised when I was in Best Buy checking out the iPods. Three of the guys back in the computer section owned iPods and several of their friends (thanks to them). The iPod is just one of those "Dude you have GOT to get one of these!" items and that is just something that you can't copy.

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by niter
I am a bit new here, and I feel like I am going to get flammed for this, but what is really the big deal.

Honestly, I am thrilled with the fact that Dell is coming out with this product. Would I still prefer an iPod, of course. I guess, I just like good competition because it keeps the companys rolling. When this hits the market, there will be a surge of PC users buying this. There will still be the people that drool over the Apple products and they will buy Apple. I am not so worried about people copying Apple products because it just pushes Apple to create more.


Maybe it is because I just bought my first Apple, but I do not see what the big deal is about the PC vs. Apple users. Even on PC forums, everyone all gets into a tizzy about this issue. I decided to switch my main computer over to a Mac because it fits my lifestyle and what I expect to get out a computer. My fiance loves the look of my Mac, but he is keeping his cheaper PC because all he uses a computer is for Internet, Word, Powerpoint, and Excel. He has consoles for his games. For him a PC fits. For me a Mac fits. It is not a big deal at all. So why is it such a big deal to others? I do not want to hear, "oooooooh, you are switching to a Mac, ewwww." Who really cares. I love my Mac, but I love my PC laptop too. So what!?

So what if Dell makes this product! Great, competition is always good for the consumer.

Thank you. I mean it, thank you. And welcome to the Apple community.

H

[lewdvig]

I hate Dell.

Copy. Copy. Copy. Copy. Copy. Copy. Copy. Copy. Copy. Copy. Copy. Copy. Copy. Copy. Copy. Copy. Copy. Copy.

[electric]

As per usual,

Apple should make another company, and rip off their own stuff; perhaps they could call it bananas.
I guess we now know how long it takes to reverse engineer an iPod

[lewdvig]

As a previous poster mentioned, you can not buy or copy 'cool.' Kids are too smart for that.

Dell = mindless clone PCs.

Heck, I have PCs but I build my own. They cost less and work better than any Dell and I don't have to pay for shipping.

[Mr.Hey]

three nice confused people voted positive :D .....ha! If you think that Dell will succeed were all others except Apple have failed, I want you to keep drinking that purple kool-aid.

[davey-nb]

Does the d-pod have white earbuds???

[lmalave]

Originally posted by copperpipe
"I actually like the Dell scrolly thingy and button layout. The iPod's scroll wheel is actually harder to control. It's a really unnatural motion to have to move your thumb in circles. Straight up and down is much more efficient."

So you're saying you've already had ample time using Dells product? I would think that an up and down scroll wheel will run out and you will have to move your hand back up to continue scrolling, whereas Apples you can continuously scroll. I've had no problem with my thumb scrolling in circles whatsoever. It's weird, because you talk with such, ...authority

Uhhh, it's not that different from a scroll wheel on a mouse. No, I haven't used the Dell device but I think I have a pretty good idea how it would feel. Yeah, you have to lift your finger, big deal. I'll bet I could still scroll faster with a mouse-type scrollwheel than with the iPod-style scroll wheel. Also, I assume that the scroller is also clickable, similar to the clickable jog dial on my Kyocera smartphone. I really like things that scroll and click at the same time. The only downside I could see is that the Dell is using all mechanical controls, whereas the iPod moved to all touch-sensitive controls for reliablity. I know I had a Dell laptop and it was a total lemon - it was a wreck after less than 2 years. I wonder what the lifespan on these dellPods is going to be.

[Blaaze]

Originally posted by alset
You are thinking of buymusic.com? Apple really is getting screwed, between them, Dell, and M$. I can't hink about this anymore. It's making me depressed.

Dan

lol, me too :(

but Apple will prevail in the end. :D

[lmalave]

Originally posted by Mr.Hey
three morons that voted positive.....ha! If you think that Dell will succeed were all others except Apple have failed, I want you to keep drinking that purple kool-aid.

Yeah, Dell doesn't seem to be setting the PDA world on fire with their Axims. Just 'cause it has the Dell name on it doesn't mean instant domination. It's just another little revenue stream for Dell.

[gothamac]

i-couldn'taffordapplesoigotthisinstead-Pod

[Lancetx]

Originally posted by gothamac
i-couldn'taffordapplesoigotthisinstead-Pod

That's perfect because that's exactly what it is. :D

[Mr.Hey]

Originally posted by niter
I am a bit new here, and I feel like I am going to get flammed for this, but what is really the big deal.

So what if Dell makes this product! Great, competition is always good for the consumer.


Whats the big deal?

Nothing. If Mr.Dell would put in a little of his own R&D and genuine effort in creating something new and not leech on the hard work, time, money and dedication that Apple has in creating these beautiful products for us. Its an insult and its wrong!. I thought Americans understood these fairly simple concepts and used them as guide and for the bases of doing anything in life?. Guess not.



Mr.Dell once said that

"Apple should be sold and the money should be given back to the shareholders."

and then turn around and do this?, its ********* retarded. I know that you do not know the full history between Apple and Dell but we do and so the these insults, rants, criticisms are justified.

[ces1965]

The only reason is that (a) the price they could quote safely was too high for the size in question and (b) they are unsure they can go with the low price they would like.

I don't think the general public will pay much attention to this announcement. Now they would if Dell said, coming before xmas, a 20 gb model for 199.

Basicallly, you only delay the specifics if there's a problem.

Also, Dell's "music store" is likely to be provided by someone else and just rebadged. Probably it will also be one of the "premium services" in Windows Media player.

The general public can tell the iTunes is way better than WMPlayer. And it won't cost more to use iTunes so it's not like the battle of old where you have a superior machine, but more $$

iTunes, even more than the store, is the secret weapon nobody is paying attention to.

[e-coli]

Looks pretty nice.

If I were a PC person, I'd buy one.

[Mr.Hey]

6 and counting :D

[ELYXR]

My only gripe is with the software. It was designed specifically to rip off the iPod UI. Do you think everything scrolls left to right too?

"The Clone War Has Begun." - Yoda

[lmalave]

Originally posted by Mr.Hey
Whats the big deal?

Nothing. If Mr.Dell would put in a little of his own R&D and genuine effort in creating something new and not leech on the hard work, time, money and dedication that Apple has in creating these beautiful products for us. Its an insult and its wrong!. I thought Americans understood these fairly simple concepts and used them as guide and for the bases of doing anything in life?. Guess not.



Mr.Dell once said that

"Apple should be sold and the money should be given back to the shareholders."

and then turn around and do this?, its ********* retarded. I know that you do not know the full history between Apple and Dell but we do and so the these insults, rants, criticisms are justified.

Uhhh. What is "wrong" about what Dell is doing? It's called capitalism. In a mature industry there are basically only two ways to stay alive: be a price leader or an innovator. Only a very, very few companies can do both (Intel comes to mind).

Dell has chosen the price leader path, Apple has chosen the innovation path. They both have their challenges in terms of maintaining sustainable advantage. Short of bulletproof patent protection, Apple has to keep innovating at breakneck speed to stay in the game. Dell, on the other hand, better be looking behind its shoulder at companies like Legend in China that could easily be severely undercutting its prices in just a few years.

[lmalave]

Originally posted by ces1965
The only reason is that (a) the price they could quote safely was too high for the size in question and (b) they are unsure they can go with the low price they would like.

I don't think the general public will pay much attention to this announcement. Now they would if Dell said, coming before xmas, a 20 gb model for 199.

Basicallly, you only delay the specifics if there's a problem.

Also, Dell's "music store" is likely to be provided by someone else and just rebadged. Probably it will also be one of the "premium services" in Windows Media player.

The general public can tell the iTunes is way better than WMPlayer. And it won't cost more to use iTunes so it's not like the battle of old where you have a superior machine, but more $$

iTunes, even more than the store, is the secret weapon nobody is paying attention to.

Dell will still sell a ton of these, though. What they'll do is aggressively push it as an add-on when you buy a computer through their site. Imagine if it's a $200 add-on (or even less with special promotions). A lot of people are going to go for it. Unlike the Axim PDAs, which a lot of people intuitively know they wouldn't use, most people would find use for a portable music players.

An analogy: what percentage of the population used paper organizers before PDAs came along? Relatively few people are disciplined enough to actually use organizers. On the other hand, almost everyone has at one time bought a Discman or their predecessors the cassette walkman, so they would be able to instantly understand the appeal of a portable music player.

[Stella]

If that Dell device was a woman, she's be absolutely hidous! :-)

the GUI interface looks remarkably like iPod.

Can't Dell make some thing with a little bit of originality?

[dongmin]

Originally posted by lmalave
Uhhh. What is "wrong" about what Dell is doing? It's called capitalism. In a mature industry there are basically only two ways to stay alive: be a price leader or an innovator. Only a very, very few companies can do both (Intel comes to mind).

Dell has chosen the price leader path, Apple has chosen the innovation path. They both have their challenges in terms of maintaining sustainable advantage. Short of bulletproof patent protection, Apple has to keep innovating at breakneck speed to stay in the game. Dell, on the other hand, better be looking behind its shoulder at companies like Legend in China that could easily be severely undercutting its prices in just a few years.

well said. Why are people getting so worked up by this? Did you guys expect anything less of Dell? I'm wondering why it took them this long to pull this off. And to all the people who're dissing the player, if this thing is 75% as good as the iPod, it'll sell like hotcakes. Because Dell's gonna make it super cheap and there are a plenty of people out there who'll choose price over quality.

I'm not too concerned about whether the ipod is gonna succeed. I think Steve has a lot of tricks up his sleeves with the iPod. For all we know, they readying the release of the Next Big iThing.

[Abstract]

I don't see the big deal with the similar menus between the iPod and dPod. Seriously, how many ways are there to make a UI for a music player? This type of menu system was well in use before the iPod ever came out, even in other mp3 players.

And the design........well, its simple, the buttons seem appropriately placed, and a rectangular-shaped object is a typical design, isn't it? Did you expect Dell to make an mp3 player shaped like a triangle? The rectangle shape is such a typical design that you can't really say that they're copying Apple.

Now the similarity in the colour of the system is a different story.....

[ces1965]

Originally posted by lmalave
Dell will still sell a ton of these, though. What they'll do is aggressively push it as an add-on when you buy a computer through their site. Imagine if it's a $200 add-on (or even less with special promotions). A lot of people are going to go for it. Unlike the Axim PDAs, which a lot of people intuitively know they wouldn't use, most people would find use for a portable music players.

An analogy: what percentage of the population used paper organizers before PDAs came along? Relatively few people are disciplined enough to actually use organizers. On the other hand, almost everyone has at one time bought a Discman or their predecessors the cassette walkman, so they would be able to instantly understand the appeal of a portable music player.

Why didn't they announce now it will be a $200 add-on. I mean the only thing dell can do is offer a lower price, but they don't offer it when the thing is announced. Why? Again, the only reason is because they might not be able to offer it for 200. There's some problem

[Java]

Originally posted by Macrumors
"a digital entertainment center".


What a revoluntionary idea. How did you guys ever come up with such a concept?

[LinuxGigolo]

Originally posted by e2chris
This is good I feel. Hopefully it will drop the prices of the ipods. I think they are kinda expensive personally. And it will also make them compete for adding new functions to it. You can see in the pic that the Dell one allows you to record voice. I know that this is a hiden feature in the new ipods but I never followed up with it to see if it works. But competition is normal people.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! Geez. Everytime another company announces something that competes with something that Apple 'invented' or 'innovated', the article gets hundreds of negative votes and a whole bunch of whining. Competition is a good thing. As somebody said above, imitation is the best form of flattery. The iPod is not going away, just as the mac platform has not gone away. But Apple WILL be forced to compete, either with price or features (hopefully both) in order to sell to the tougher market. If competition did not exist, we'd all be driving the first car ever invented, using the first computer ever invented, etc. Competition creates a desire to strive for better. In this case, it's Dell. To them, I say bring it on!

[traffic4]

perhaps its true that the ipod has a much better interface and is much more intuitive, and was the innovator in the industry.

dell and "mainstream" america don't care though, unfortunately.

dell wants to make money as pointed out by the above posts,
and "mainstream" america sees dell as a leader and will buy dell's product because it is something that they feel is affordable an "new".

believe me, "mainstream" america still thinks apple products are way overpriced, too fancy, and don't have any software.

my thoughts on the dell jipbox.

horrible buttons and scroll (everytime you come to the top or bottom of the scroll you have to take your finger off and place it back at the top or bottom!)
>apple's scroll wheel allows you to always have your finger connected.

bloated frontside look with surrounding white border.

will probably be much cheaper then the ipod, however.

[yujini]

Heh if this dell ipod had a stronger bass, and about the same
or better sound quality, i'd get this over the ipod.

[Raman1970]

Guys.. what do you expect.. would you expect any less from Micheal Leech Dell?

Of course they are going to come up with their own .. Jobs creates it Dell copies it.

The main point here is looking forward. The next step for the iPod is wireless and connectivity with cars. Now I am not talking about the bundle of a bug with an iPod.

Imagine this. You go to your car, instead of taking a cd magazine you take your just newly sync'd iPod. Plug it in your dash. Start your car up. On the Nav pops up the all familiar iPod menu. Or even better, BMW, Mercedes VW etc. have a little display window between the tach and odomter. Menu pops up right there and you choose via your steering wheel!!!

Then Jobs can tell Dell to go $%*& himself. :D

[Photorun]

Wow, Michael Dell is a genius... where does he come up with all of his wonderful ideas?!

Oh... that's right, Apple is Dell's R&D department.

[Mr.Hey]

Originally posted by lmalave
Uhhh. What is "wrong" about what Dell is doing? It's called capitalism.


Its amazing how peoples perceptions change when the term Capitalism in thrown into the mix.. I could have excuse Mr.Dell if he would have contributed to the idea and improved upon it in some small way but he didn't. He just repacked the Apple concept and is now selling it at a lower price.

[Chealion]

Good for Dell for moving forward.
Bad for Dell for making me feel sick at the sight of it.
Bad Dell, that in order to first start up your Dell you can't read a EULA that you can't even access without automatically accepting it.

Good for Apple for making something so sweet.
Bad for Apple, the time of iPod style monopoly is over (There were ones before but nothing that comes anywhere close as successful, Dell has the ability, as they throw it in or something snazzy like that for every Dell bought).
Bad Apple, no Windows iTMS yet? No International versions either of any kind? At least let a rumor slip to sate the rumor crowd, but officially say nothing as that is your style.

[1adonis1]

Apple's problem is going to lose the price battle, so Dell's ipod wanna be will sell, and sell big....and i also think it looks better than the apple ipod.

[j33pd0g]

Where's the Burninator when you need him?

[Mr.Hey]

Originally posted by dongmin
[B Did you guys expect anything less of Dell?. [/B]


Priceless.

[donniedarko7]

How could there be so many negatives? Last time I checked, Competition is a good thing. Its called Economics. Mabye some of you took this class in high school. maybe prices for the ipod will drop. Just because you love apple and everything about it, does not mean that you can't appreciate something in the PC world, even if it is sort of a rip off. Everybody steals from everybody, I dont see what the big deal is. That's my 2 cents. :)

[Mr.Hey]

Originally posted by 1adonis1
Apple's problem is going to lose the price battle, so Dell's ipod wanna be will sell, and sell big....and i also think it looks better than the apple ipod.
------------------------------
17inch iMac 800Mhz
256k



:confused:

I don't think you can operate a modern Mac on 256k of ram, can you?.

[jouster]

Originally posted by trilogic
sounds familiar

isn't there another company offering the same?

Uh......yes. Shockingly, there is more than one car manufacturer too.

If Apple is to beat this (and it WILL be popular) it had better get its act together to avoid blowing what lead it has. Rough translation - iTunes for Windows may conceivably be Apple's most important current project.

APple has no divine right to restrict certain market segments to itself, as some here seem to imply. Only Microsoft and its legal dept, also known as the Justice Department, can do that.......

[Photorun]

Doubtful Apple will lower their prices so nobody get their hopes up. Apple has spent it's entire existance pretty clueless that in some cases a lower price means more volume and more adoption of product. It's never occured them before so probably wont ever. Then again remember Apple is profitable as a company perhaps thanks to the mark-up, as opposed to most other computer makers, excepting Dell, who basically is just a poor man's Apple... a VERY poor man's Apple.

[kenaustus]

It's not that hard to copy an iPod so Dell should come up with one that is on par with their computer quality - but you'll be transferred to India if you need customer service . . .

The real question is related to the software that will integrate everything. What is Dell going to do about an iTunes copy? My bet is that it will be a third rate effort when compared to iTunes.

If Apple keeps pushing development of the iPod at the same rate we have seen in the past then Dell's iPod copy won't be that much of a hit on the iPod sales.

The other interesting thing about old Mike's announcement is that it appears that Dell, like Gateway, is discovering that they need something besides computers to continue to grow. Old Mike is, at least, smart enough to know what brand to copy . . .

[rjwill246]

Originally posted by Chealion

Bad Apple, no Windows iTMS yet? No International versions either of any kind? At least let a rumor slip to sate the rumor crowd, but officially say nothing as that is your style.

Oh come on! This has been done to death. Apple is working this on all fronts. Oh no I forgot. They aren't aware there are places other than the US so I guess the legal issues and licencing issues outside the US are all imaginary. Sorry about that. It's just become obvious to me that Apple absolutely wants to fail as a company. That's why they never have anything useful to sell either, I guess!

[bertagert]

I think we should really wait to see if this player is any good. You never know, it might be.

Apple has a great product. Dell needs to be either half as good with half the price, or just as good with the same price. Either way, all Dell will do is take sales from some other mp3 companies, not Apple. Ipods have made their mark and now are their own brand name in a sense.

The only down side I see is if Dell uses Microsofts DRM on the music files in it's store. Hopefully they'll support AAC. This is where the real battle lies.

[AmigoMac]

My 3 years old son just came when I was taking a look to that "thing" and said:

"ohh new iPod, but looks really ugly"

me: No, it's not a new iPod, it's a music player from dell"

he: from hell?
:D

I'd agree, looks like a 60's/70's object with apple's taste.

iTMS for Europe... Come on steve!

[1adonis1]

is this better?
Originally posted by Mr.Hey
:confused:

I don't think you can operate a modern Mac on 256k of ram, can you?.

[fred]

Funny I submitted this story 4 days ago and Arn finally posts it....without giving me credit I may add :)

All I can say is that Apple has dropped the ball once again...with it's brand name Apple could have owned the consumer electronics biz (in fact Larry Ellison before he joined Apple's board was strongly urging Apple to go in this direction).

[SiliconAddict]

Welcome to the real competition Apple. They need the Windows version of iTunes to be released NOW. Not 3 weeks from now. Not tomorrow. NOW. Apple is seriously squandering a golden opportunity and someone like Dell will bite them in the butt for it.

Also. Ugly or not. If the device is relatively small and cheap it'll sell. You see not everyone gives a crap about the looks of a device as long as works well and is cheap.

I'm still quite amazed that Dell is going to release a music store. AFAIK this is the first time they've taken the plunge in an emerging market.

[Mr.Hey]

Originally posted by e2chris
This is good I feel. Hopefully it will drop the prices of the ipods. I think they are kinda expensive personally. And it will also make them compete for adding new functions to it. You can see in the pic that the Dell one allows you to record voice. I know that this is a hiden feature in the new ipods but I never followed up with it to see if it works. But competition is normal people.


If this were true then I would be all for it. But have any of the other cheap mp3 players like Creative achieved this with its larger HD and limitless features? ...no!. Then why is it that you think that Dell can affect how Apple designs and prices its portable player?.

[Mr.Hey]

Originally posted by 1adonis1
is this better?

:D

not really....1gig would be preferable :D

[Mr.Hey]

Originally posted by AmigoMac
My 3 years old son just came when I was taking a look to that "thing" and said:

"ohh new iPod, but looks really ugly"

me: No, it's not a new iPod, it's a music player from dell"

he: from hell?
:D

I'd agree, looks like a 60's/70's object with apple's taste.

iTMS for Europe... Come on steve!

ROTFL!

[TiBook1ghz]

Hey, I doubt you'll be seeing a Dell DJ in any music videos...Apple will continue to succeed with its good looks and innovation.

[phillymjs]

Originally posted by AmigoMac
My 3 years old son just came when I was taking a look to that "thing" and said:

"ohh new iPod, but looks really ugly"


Well that settles it, it's time for a trade dress lawsuit! Apple will easily be able to prove that the "metooPod" is clearly designed to create marketplace confusion-- if this thing's appearance can fool someone with the intelligence of a three year-old, well that describes Dell's entire customer base! ;)

~Philly

[bertagert]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Welcome to the real competition Apple. They need the Windows version of iTunes to be released NOW. Not 3 weeks from now. Not tomorrow. NOW. Apple is seriously squandering a golden opportunity and someone like Dell will bite them in the butt for it.

Maybe you should stop injecting so much silicon into your viens. You have NO IDEA if this music player is either 1. any good, 2. If the music store is any good.

I'll bet it'll use MS's DRM. If thats the case, you have nothing to worry about as not a single other company has pulled it off using MS's DRM. The only, and one and only company that has pulled this off is Apple. And that might not be so true. There is no way Apple has recouped its investment on ITMS yet. And they probably woun't for some time.

As soon as ITMS for windows is released, you'll see Apple get HUGE advertising (free advertising from the news,etc.) because it will be so easy to use.

Look at it this way. BuyMusic.com opens their music store on May 1st 2003. Lets say Apple had nothing but finally put ITMS out Dec. 15th 2003. Which one would you be using and why?

You guys worry way too much about this stuff. Dell has been working on a music store for at least a year. Its not something they came up with yesterday. Apple knows this and thats why their store is and will be that much better.

The battle is AAC vs. MS. Not Apple vs. Dell. I wish you guys would get that.

[Fukui]

Originally posted by Mr.Hey
If Mr.Dell would put in a little of his own R&D and genuine effort in creating something new and not leech on the hard work, time, money and dedication that Apple has in creating these beautiful products for us. Its an insult and its wrong!. I thought Americans understood these fairly simple concepts and used them as guide and for the bases of doing anything in life?. Guess not.
If you've ever been to business school, one of the things you are "programmed" to learn is that when another company is successful with their product, come out with your own version...to ride on the wave. True innovation is not taught, it can only trully be learned by one's self.

[bertagert]

Originally posted by AmigoMac
My 3 years old son just came when I was taking a look to that "thing" and said:

"ohh new iPod, but looks really ugly"

me: No, it's not a new iPod, it's a music player from dell"

he: from hell?

I think the real question is why your son is saying "hell" at 3 years old?

[greenstork]

Oh my gosh, run for your lives. Apple has competition for the iPod. They might be forced to further innovate and create cooler products and (gasp) might have to lower their prices. <sarcasm>It's an outrage I tell you, what horrible news for Apple and their customers.</sarcasm>

[1adonis1]

If the price is cheap enough, people will buy it, reguradless of quality. (except mac users).

[Lancetx]

I don't think it's so much that people here are bitching or upset about Dell putting this thing out necessarily as it is the credit that Dell will try to take for it. The lemmings out there will largely think again that Dell is a trendsetter here when they are yet again only taking someone else's design and making a cheaper version. What is really upsetting is listening to Michael Dell spew all the time about innovating when the only innovating he has ever done is to make existing computing designs cheaper and more efficiently mass produced.

Personally, I'm glad Dell is around because I think competition is good and it forces Apple to continue to innovate so they can remain 2 steps ahead of the Dell's of the world. However, it would be nice if for only once we could see something truly original come from these guys instead of it always being a cheap knockoff of something Apple has already done months or years earlier. I'm paraphrasing here, but Steve Jobs said it best when he remarked recently that only Dell and Apple are making money these days...Dell does it by being Wal-Mart, while we do it by innovating.

[jaykk]

I think DELL is going to sell a ton of them.Why? Because, its cheaper, and have a wider customer base to sell it to. But the most important part is Windows Media Player with DRM capability. the age of "Anti-swap CD" is here.

"The soulful singer's Arista debut, which arrives in stores today, may look like a traditional CD. But it's the first of an expected wave of CDs intended to keep listeners from swapping songs on the Net.


The disc has two sets of music tracks: one set of "encrypted" songs that can be handled by CD players but cannot be ripped on computers, and a duplicate set of tracks in the Windows Media format. These can be downloaded from the CD to a computer and then transferred to portable devices or recorded to home CDs.
"

Full article Here (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=711&e=5&u=/usatoday/11865096)

Do you think Apple is going to support Windows Media in iTunes/iPod? No, they support AAC only. So,for the average user, a CD is only useful with WIN PC/WMP/DULLPOD.Thats exactly why Microsoft released WMP for Mac with the new DRM, they can play a CD on a Mac, but useless with iTunes/iPod. DULL is going to be the winner in the long run if CDs comes with Microsoft DRM even if iTunes for Windows hit the market soon.

I hope apple will spent more effor in marketing more of Mac OS X / iTunes / iPod . The more switcher, the better. I think iPod/iTunes is still the winner if Apple can convince more people to switch to a less-DRM operating system.

[alirio]

It'll be uglier than the iPod.

It'll be less durable than the iPod.

It'll be cheaper than the iPod.

It'll sell better than the iPod.

Apple will offer peripherals and other things we don't need for the iPod.

Apple will experience decreased sales of the iPod due to their unwillingness to compete buck for stinking buck.

michael Dell will rot in "lack of any original thought" HELL with people like Oasis, Vanilla Ice, and anyone who's produced a reality TV show since Survivor and The Amazing Race..

[niall2]

Originally posted by lmalave

I actually like the Dell scrolly thingy and button layout. The iPod's scroll wheel is actually harder to control. It's a really unnatural motion to have to move your thumb in circles. Straight up and down is much more efficient.

So with the IPod if you want to have a scroll wheel equivelant just use the right hand side of the scrolling circle for up and down. With the Dell, you have but one option, which is very inline with the Microsoft PC world.

[Mr.Hey]

Originally posted by bertagert
I think the real question is why your son is saying "hell" at 3 years old?

Cause he's a rebel.

He Thinks Different(ly)®


:D

[kcmac]

All this will probably do is wipe out the other players on the market leaving the dell and the iPod as the only real competitors.

Apple has been pretty good recently at competing with Dell feature for feature and price. (The dual G5 comes to mind.)

This is a big money maker for Apple and you can bet they have known this was coming for a long time. Apple has the ability with their superior connections to the music and entertainment industry and now their success that Dell most likely won't be able to match any time soon. Apple hasn't been sitting on their hands getting a windows version ready. Convincing the music industry of this idea is a much more difficult proposition on the dark side. Making it work as seamlessly as iTunes on the mac is also a challenge that Apple probably cares about more than a company on the PC side will.

I am looking for future reductions in price or new features that keep the cool factor of the iPod. (Betting on both.)

People always try to copy Apple but never get it right. This is a big market that is exploding. Apple will still be leading the way.

My only fear is that Apple keeps making the iPod's capacity bigger and bigger. Dell will most likely have a smaller capacity jukebox that will appeal to people that can live with only 5 or 10,000 songs in their pocket. I would like to see Apple keep a 5 or 10 gig model on the market at an aggressive price for this reason.

[VicMacs]

I say it looks like a palm zire... but it's still U-G-L-Y... no imagination... none what so ever...

[greenstork]

Originally posted by jaykk

"The soulful singer's Arista debut, which arrives in stores today, may look like a traditional CD. But it's the first of an expected wave of CDs intended to keep listeners from swapping songs on the Net.


The disc has two sets of music tracks: one set of "encrypted" songs that can be handled by CD players but cannot be ripped on computers, and a duplicate set of tracks in the Windows Media format. These can be downloaded from the CD to a computer and then transferred to portable devices or recorded to home CDs.
"

Full article Here (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=711&e=5&u=/usatoday/11865096)


By definition, these are not CD's. In short, a CD can be read by any player and since these are unable to be read by computer CD players, they are not CD's. You'll notice on every one of these fake CD's that there is no holographic label. You know, the little one that says Compact Disc on it.

The fact that these are sold along side CD's is outrageous when in fact, they are not CD's. This is rife for a class action lawsuit and I hope some law firm steps up to do it. It's misleading to the customer to sell CD's alongside fake encrypted CD's because they are different products and most customers don't realize it at the time of purchase.

If I can't rip CD's to iTunes, I'm bitching to any record company that will listen, this is a tragedy.

[Mr.Hey]

Originally posted by 1adonis1
If the price is cheap enough, people will buy it, reguradless of quality. (except mac users).


And that includes you too my little buttercup :D....Welcome to the wonderful world of Apple.




(at least get a 512mb or ram.....MAN!!!!)

:D

[NoVi]

C'mon people, give those guys/ girls a Dell a break..;)

Apple (iPod) *IS* cool because it's expensive, has the slickest design, best specs etc. etc.

That's the burden Apple will have to carry...it will never be a product for the masses, a bit like BMW vs. Toyota, so to speak.

So half the world will eventually carry a Dell, Philips or whatever MP3-device. Only the "real cool people" an iPod.

BTW. I saw tonight a shameless plug for the iPod on MTV in a 50Cent video...cool video


:D

[1adonis1]

yeah i'm included..and i'll be at 768M Saturday. ( i dont want COMPUSA digging in my computer)
Originally posted by Mr.Hey
And that includes you too my little buttercup :D....Welcome to the wonderful world of Apple.




(at least get a 512mb or ram.....MAN!!!!)

:D

[AmigoMac]

Let's wait and see, I image a lot of PC guys out there buying it and then complaining or saying something like :

-It's more comfortable for me and my hand (finger(s))

-It's all what I need, It's cheaper than your i, i ... i what?

-and some other things to feel themselves no guilty of that (H)(D)ell-Musicjunkbox :cool:

I'll be buying a second iPod for my son, very soon... ;)

[agreenster]

I once worked for a company who pitched the idea of 'new technology' (lets leave it at that so I dont get slammed with a lawsuit) to Dell, and Dell flat out said we should go to Sony or Apple with this idea because they arent in the business of innovation. They blatantly said they watched the market for emerging trends and products, copy the ones that sell/do well, and slash the prices. They are a business only interested in the bottom line.

In my book, thats nothing better than the kid in grade school who never studies and sits next to the smart kid during the tests.

[applekid]

The Dell Music Store will fail. How many times have you hear me say that about all of the other music stores? Sure they haven't gone down yet, but how many of them actually said they made a profit?

The Dell MP3 Player will be another failure in the making. Nothing on it says it's better than an iPod. Perhaps price will be the driving factor. Imitation may be flattery, but it is also failure. All of the iMac clones of the CRTs and flat panels are NONEXISTENT! The "i" in other companies died.

Dell has become REALLY desperate now. Selling TVs now. From PC-Maker to TV-Manufacturer. Pathetic. Sorta like Gateway.

Apple has to bring out more products to bring the fight to the PCs instead of defending themselves from PCs and Microsoft. More cutting-edge high-quality devices, Apple. And try to keep them Mac-only and perhaps CHEAPER! And a better education campaign for consumers. I mean jeez, some people either A) can't afford a Mac. B) See no advantages. A computer is a computer. C) Have no experience on a Mac whatsoever.

[lmalave]

Originally posted by niall2
So with the IPod if you want to have a scroll wheel equivelant just use the right hand side of the scrolling circle for up and down. With the Dell, you have but one option, which is very inline with the Microsoft PC world.

Good point :)

[Freg3000]

I just got an iPod. But I need to stop babying it and bringing it everywhere I go. i love it as it is, I will be attached when I start using it constantly.

I am confident that none of my PC friends would get this, I have shown them the light. :D

[jayscheuerle]

If you really don't want an iPod, Rio has some decent industrial designs, though their price-point of their larger 20gig player is in line with Apple's

Rio players (http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_templates/cat_list_Rio.asp?cat=53#)

[magitekkn]

Originally posted by NoVi


BTW. I saw tonight a shameless plug for the iPod on MTV in a 50Cent video...cool video


:D

That video can be watched on the iTunes music store under the 50 cent artist page.

[shadowfax]

i hope you guys don't seriously think this is an iPod rip.

the screen is just plain intuitive. so one would seriously expect them to make it differently than how they did it. not significantly anyway. the button arrangement is totally different from any of apple's iPods, and it's actually plenty intuitive, if you ask me. i would have put the scrollbar below the other buttons, but it's no matter. this is a perfectly decent, original design.

the question i would ask anyone who would diss this as an apple rip: if apple doesn't have any competition with its iPod, how do you think they will ever be motivated to make it better and cheaper. Dell is challenging them, if you ask me, and it makes me happy.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
If you really don't want an iPod, Rio has some decent industrial designs, though their price-point of their larger 20gig player is in line with Apple's

Rio players (http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_templates/cat_list_Rio.asp?cat=53#) how do they stay in business? $300 for a 1.5 GB player? 200 for a 256MB player? good god! you can get a 10 GB iPod for the price of their 1.5.

[kevin49093]

I don't have an iPod (yet), can they record incoming audio...

The pic of this dell thing says 'voice recording'. Does this mean it will record incoming audio? If so isn't that something that we need in the iPod?

[Dahl]

Originally posted by shadowfax
how do they stay in business? $300 for a 1.5 GB player? 200 for a 256MB player? good god! you can get a 10 GB iPod for the price of their 1.5.
I think the original company went under and now the Rio players are made by a new company, but for how long ?

The whole thnig about Dell scares me a bit.
I know it a boost for Apple to see Dell trying to be like them and maybe some Dellpod users might switch to iPods, but what about the users that won't ?
There are still many dell users who want cheap PC's instead of an Apple, why should they think different about iPods ?

Then again, Apple will be forced to stay ahead and the trendsetters will hopefully follow. :)

[DGFan]

Originally posted by Mr.Hey
Its amazing how peoples perceptions change when the term Capitalism in thrown into the mix.. I could have excuse Mr.Dell if he would have contributed to the idea and improved upon it in some small way but he didn't. He just repacked the Apple concept and is now selling it at a lower price.

"Greater efficiency" is a business model. Dell has used it quite successfully to date.

[Java]

Originally posted by NoVi
That's the burden Apple will have to carry...it will never be a product for the masses, a bit like BMW vs. Toyota, so to speak.
:D

Actually, I believe the iPod market makes up for nearly half of the mp3 players bought.

I think the iPod is for the masses. The 20th Ann. Macintosh, that was not.

[eggman76]

Originally posted by bertagert
Maybe you should stop injecting so much silicon into your viens. You have NO IDEA if this music player is either 1. any good, 2. If the music store is any good.

I'll bet it'll use MS's DRM. If thats the case, you have nothing to worry about as not a single other company has pulled it off using MS's DRM. The only, and one and only company that has pulled this off is Apple. And that might not be so true. There is no way Apple has recouped its investment on ITMS yet. And they probably woun't for some time.

As soon as ITMS for windows is released, you'll see Apple get HUGE advertising (free advertising from the news,etc.) because it will be so easy to use.

Look at it this way. BuyMusic.com opens their music store on May 1st 2003. Lets say Apple had nothing but finally put ITMS out Dec. 15th 2003. Which one would you be using and why?

You guys worry way too much about this stuff. Dell has been working on a music store for at least a year. Its not something they came up with yesterday. Apple knows this and thats why their store is and will be that much better.

The battle is AAC vs. MS. Not Apple vs. Dell. I wish you guys would get that.

Hold on a sec, Professor. Even Steve jobs has admitted that the iTMS doesn't really make that much in the way of profit and that its big potential is in guiding people towards making iPod purchases. You are right to assume that Apple hasn't recouped their costs on the music store yet but I think that they are less concerned with if it breaks even than if it continues to draw people to the light side and into the arms of a 3G iPod that will help them fatten their wallets and maybe even win a few PC converts.

I don't like Dell any more than anyone else on this board but I can tell you that Dell is a trusted brand amongst computer and gadget neophytes. Not only that but Apple gets a mixed opinion from many in the non-tech or media crowd. Many people (my father included unfortunately) don't even know that an iPod will work with a IBM-compatible. Notice I didn't say PC. Apple makes Personal Computers, too, after all.

And this ISN'T about AAC vs. WMA. They're both DRM'd lossy format files. Who cares? That's something for the record companies to work out with Apple and Microsoft. As a consumer I just want the better player which is clearly Apple at this point. My iPod plays my ripped MP3s from my Windows XP machine and my AAC files from my G4 just fine. Even if Dell didn't release their own library of music for people to buy the unit will still sell. Unless HP has overtaken them they still sell more personal computers than anyone in the U.S.

You're right that this isn't Apple vs. Dell. As Apple enthusiasts it's Apple vs everyone that makes a portable personal music device. The reason you don't see people up in arms on this thread over the Creative Nomad is because they know that the Nomad is inferior in functionality, doesn't have one of the largest computer makers in the world selling it, and didn't rip off the style of the iPod. We know the DJ fits the second and third things on that list. We'll have to wait on the functionality part. Dell could have made the "DJ" any color they wanted to but they chose white. This is a color that they are not using on ANY of their other products. But it does happen to be the color of the #1 MP3 player in the world right now. Hmmmmmm.....

[centauratlas]

It looks kind of ugly and clunky compared to what they copied....

Of course that is why I have a 911 C4 and not a Korean car. ;-)

[Dahl]

A bit of subject, but still:

While I won't get a Dellpod, I might think about one of their upcoming LCD TV's.
Just how loyal does a Mac user have to be ? Do I have to wait for Apples own line of TV's ?

http://news.com.com/2100-1042_3-5080430.html?tag=rn

[arqsagi]

Right now I dont even own more than 1000 songs either on cd or buy from itunes music store but since that music special event from apple I bought my first ipod, it is the most amazing thing i ever own, it is quite expensive for some but it is an icon, is a special device that always be remember as well as the music store.
Now with dell is just another mp3 player, there is no way people are going to talk great things about it because it doesnt inovate, and tird party develovers are not going to design so many stuff for this device like for the ipod.
And remember the ipod is more than an mp3, it substitute my pda, it has games, notes, music, backup hardrive. If a company really wants to create the next ipod thing they should really inovate not copy.
Any idea about their ad campain?

[Burrell]

The whole thnig about Dell scares me a bit.
I know it a boost for Apple to see Dell trying to be like them and maybe some Dellpod users might switch to iPods, but what about the users that won't ?
There are still many dell users who want cheap PC's instead of an Apple, why should they think different about iPods ?

Then again, Apple will be forced to stay ahead and the trendsetters will hopefully follow.
__________________
Anders Dahl.com
______________________________________________________

Anders, be happy!

Apple has seen this for 2 decades. You can bet that when the iPod sales & ITMS started ramping up , that design work on the next several generations that was already underway went into overdrive.

I wouldn't be surprised to see audio, tunes, radio, video & BT wireless connectivity in the next generation. It is easy to envision but hard to innovate. Apple has continually done it.

Bo

[centauratlas]

I have one of the Nokia 3650 phones (and soon a 6600). It includes camera, bluetooth, calendar, contacts etc. With iSync it does great with my Macs.

Apple needs to use their iPhone name and do something like this:
1. Similar to the 3650/6600 in terms of phone features, camera etc.
2. It needs to have a larger memory card (e.g. XD, or MMS). I know XD can go at least 8GB, perhaps larger. I don't know about MMS's limits.
--> so far with #1 and #2 it is a standard cell phone with just a higher capacity memory card so it isn't an engineering hurdle.
3. Add iPod like software to it to stream from the XD/MMS/whatever card.
4. Get iTunes to talk sync with it. Make sure iTunes for Windows does it too. Add one additional output to the Nokia phone and you can have the audio out. Synch via Bluetooth.

All of that is relatively easy to do, there are examples of #1 and #2 out there. A bigger card isn't a huge problem. iTunes isn't either.

They reason why I believe they need to do this is the following: I (and plenty of people I know) always carry our cell phones with us. I don't always carry my 30GB iPod or my 10GB iPod. If Apple combines the two (even if it is initially lower capacity), they will sell even more units. They'll get lots of advertising - what kind of phone is that. Don't stop selling the original of course, but make this another version of it. This is a great way to expand market share, particularly if they use their design expertise.

And as an extra bonus, it would also be a *great* slap at Motorola (don't let them near it of course) since the cell phone is a big part of their business.

In the future they should:
1. Add a way to stream via bluetooth
2. Increase the resolution of the camera
3. Integrate the iSight software (the 3650 and 6600 can already save 15-20 seconds of video, just allow it to stream via bluetooth or firewire or ... eventually allow it to stream over the air)
4. Allow recording of phone conversations (with appropriate warnings (e.g. the beeps or whatever).)


Generally improve it as they do with their designs.

[.a]

remember about one year ago, ipods were sold in the dell online store! then they got rid of them and then they sold'em again.
i did not checked it for quite a long time but i bet, now they do not sell ipods anymore :)
.a

[Judo]

"We are revolutionizing technology for our customers -- again,"

Yep, just keep telling yourself that Michael.

[Mr.Hey]

Originally posted by magitekkn
That video can be watched on the iTunes music store under the 50 cent artist page.


some how I don't think 50 is going to be using that thing in his next video and still claim that he's a P-I-M-P :D

[centauratlas]

p.s. Right now I have 9892 songs in my iTunes library (*none* downloaded, btw). I'd gladly settle for having 1000 or 500 or whatever on this type of integrated phone. The 3650 also has a built-in speaker phone, so you could *also* play songs right over it, assuming the speaker quality was high enough.

There are going to be two digital hubs initially - one in your house with ReplayTV type features (e.g. TiVo/ReplayTV) - and one that you carry with you. And I think it will be the one with your phone (vs one with a PDA) that you carry. Apple has a *great* product with the iPod, but they need to extend their design expertise (things like the one-button mouse...had to say that! <haha>) into the cell phone arena because

The Denon (aka DNNA) owners bought SonicBlue who makes the ReplayTV, makers of the Rio recorder. Rio's design is nothing compared to the iPod.

However, the ReplayTV has a pretty nice design (I've had a 3080 for 4 years and am going to get a new one). DNNA wants to get into the digital hub type thing in the hosue. So does Apple. DNNA will want to outside too, with its Rio.

Eventually you'll be able to carry all your data/information with you and if you are near a keyboard and screen it will allow you to access it from wherever you are.

The company that gets a lot of these cell phone combo devices out there will do really well. Apple has a great opportunity because with a hybrid iPod people know it is great and want it with them all the time.

[robodweeb]

Originally posted by MoparShaha
That music player is such a blatant rip-off of the iPod.

Well, exccept for the one feature that would convince me to buy an iPod ... the ability to do voice recording ... Apple has chosen not to support this feature, so I am giving the Dell offering serious consideration to replace my aging Olympus DM-1 ...

I'd prefer to buy an iPod, but I guess I'm not part of Apple's target market ...

[lewdvig]

Originally posted by lmalave
Yeah, Dell doesn't seem to be setting the PDA world on fire with their Axims. Just 'cause it has the Dell name on it doesn't mean instant domination. It's just another little revenue stream for Dell.

They are taking PDA share away from HP. That is good and proves that they can not grow markets, just take over.

It won't work in music.

[twinturbo]

I personally feel that while everyone else tries to ape apple, Apple's gonna come out with another innovation that'll blow everyone's socks off. It's plainly simple cause the thinking's so different

Apple -> "How can I out-innovate everbody else, what is the wave of the future, how can I change the world . . ."

Everybody else -> "How can I copy Apple and make it really cheap to make some cash"

So basically the competition will always be behind the curve with this type of thinking. As long as Apple has vision and the money to spend on R&D, they're going to out-innovate and crush everybody else with products that change our notions of the norm.

While Dell's trying to get into music, probably Apple's gonna figure out some way to securely rip a DVD (from iDVD) and record that on your video iPod in MPEG-2 or 4 (so you basically can't play back or upload the MPEG-4 or MPEG-2 stream onto anything else, only the iPod. This would prevent Apple from getting sued by the MPAA). With the newer 20-40GB iPods, you could have a ton of songs and a couple movies! Tuff luck Dell . . .

[Moz]

I have a thousand obscenities I'd like to shout at the top of my lungs at Dell corporation.

Since this is a forum, and there are rules, I'll refrain. But you all get my drift.


Matt.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by e2chris
99% Windows users use Kazaa anyway so I dont think it is that important... It would be nice if Apple had the ITMs for Windows but I just dont see it making much money. Anyone know how that other music store is doing(windows)?? I forgot the webaddress. The one that had the same commercials as Apples.

They're doing so well that they refuse to tell anyone how much they've sold.

In other words, fizzle.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Moz
I have a thousand obscenities I'd like to shout at the top of my lungs at Dell corporation.

Since this is a forum, and there are rules, I'll refrain. But you all get my drift.


Matt. here's one for you. what the hell is your problem? don't take it personally--any more than i should take your comment about the company my dad works for. he does a good job, and Dell is good at plenty of things. if they have some issues, well, such is life. steve jobs pisses me and a lot of other people off with very matched frequency.

again, how can you call this an iPod rip? isn't that like saying, oh god, look at that
Audi TT! it's a complete copy of the VW beetle. they took the arching roof, and, jeez, they even used wheels! what is the world coming to?

this is not some iPod rip. they are making their own brand of innovation. the control system is perfectly unique. and it's shaped like a 1.8 inch hard drive. big surprise.

[lewdvig]

Originally posted by centauratlas
I have one of the Nokia 3650 phones (and soon a 6600). It includes camera, bluetooth, calendar, contacts etc. With iSync it does great with my Macs.
Generally improve it as they do with their designs.

I think they would be smart to team with Nokia, and do a private label phone. Buy the guts from Nokia, use Symbian 7 with an Aqua look. Have Ive come up with a gorgeous shell. The jr version of the 7650 - I forget the model number - would be a great place to start.

Have iTunes recognize it, sync PIM stuff with iSync.

iTMS could have ring tones for sale too.

Take the Sun approach and create the entire stack. Nokia would be one heck of a partner too. So would SE.

Samsung are cool, but the are platform agnostic - they will build whatever they can sell (smart). MOT is in bed with MS now, so I hope they sink.

I would buy this.

[Shadey]

I just registered for this news bite.

You guys seriously need to wake up and smell the rotten apple.

While Dell's MP3 player may look like Apple's, Apple certainly didn't blaze any trails in creating theirs.

Anyone ever heard of Diamond? They had the first MP3 player on the market. Creative? First hard drive based MP3 player. All Apple did is make it smaller. Dell did the same thing. They took Apple's idea and made it cheaper.

Apple is a great innovator, don't get me wrong, but they certainly aren't everything you guys seem to think they are.

Silicon graphics had a computer much like the Apple Cube in the early nineties, but I bet you guys thought Apple's was so great, until it died just as quick as SG's did.

I don't mean to piss anyone off, but I see this more and more within the Apple community. Mac-Heads are so shut up in their own little world that they forget there is more than one way to do business.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by lmalave
Size and Price point will be the key here.

But, you see, that's the problem. Dell can either cheapen the device to commodity levels, or it can compete on features/performance/design. IMHO, Dell USED to be pretty good at competing on features and performance, but have in the past couple of years gone way downhill quality-wise, especially in their "consumer" lines. I suspect the dPod will be the same: commodity, cheap, bottom-of-market to drive out all competition. However, as Dell, HP, and Compaq have all found out in the consumer PC space: once you've made the market commodity-driven, your profits generally sink big time (yes, Dell makes a healthy profit in computers overall, but not in low-end commodity PCs ... it takes a loss on those to drive out competition).

IMHO, we've seen "commodity" MP3 players (you can pick a dozen different models up at your local WalMart, and at least three different ones at Walgreens or CVS). They're crap; I wouldn't want one. And no one is really getting rich selling them.

What would surprise me is if Dell decided to actually mimic Apple's approach, meaning: provide a high-end device that people would pay a little extra for. That would afford Dell the opportunity to innovate in the marketplace, which is next to impossible in a commodity-driven market. On the other hand, Dell has repeatedly shown its inability to really innovate in any market, so maybe not.


I actually like the Dell scrolly thingy and button layout. The iPod's scroll wheel is actually harder to control. It's a really unnatural motion to have to move your thumb in circles. Straight up and down is much more efficient.

You think so? Personally, I find that it is far easier to do a circular-ish movement on a flat surface with my thumb than a "rowing" scrolling motion (which is also of course circular, but one half of the circle is done unsupported in mid air). The drawback to the circular motion is that it takes up a healthy bit of space on the device (which is why you don't see it everywhere still).

Note of course that this is for a thumb (or for a vertically opposed finger), which is NOT anything like a mouse scroll wheel (which is typically operated with a horizontal, tangential finger ... fingers have a very hard time making tangential circles, but are designed to make vertically opposed or perpendicular circles ...)

On the other hand, it is mechanically hard to create a good iPod-like wheel (and covered by patents) and also fairly hard to simulate on a touch-screen as Apple's done without spending a little extra in processing for it. This makes me believe that Dell is going for the bottom of the barrel here, not the high-end users.

[porovaara]

Originally posted by Shadey
Anyone ever heard of Diamond? They had the first MP3 player on the market. Creative? First hard drive based MP3 player.

Silicon graphics had a computer much like the Apple Cube in the early nineties, but I bet you guys thought Apple's was so great, until it died just as quick as SG's did.


Every single statement there was wrong. Do a google and you will find the first mp3 player on the market.

Handango had the first HD based mp3 player, it was out when Diamond was just pushing their 64meg players. Yes, years before anyone else. It was actually a Compaq designed with production licensed to another company.

No SGI was every even remotely like the cube, are you thinking of the o2?

There is no real innovation much anymore, instead it is all evolution and whats wrong with that?

[gotohamish]

Anyone else notice on the hi-res photo that the little Home button isn't straight?

****ty Dull.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by bertagert
Maybe you should stop injecting so much silicon into your viens. You have NO IDEA if this music player is either 1. any good, 2. If the music store is any good.

I'll bet it'll use MS's DRM. If thats the case, you have nothing to worry about as not a single other company has pulled it off using MS's DRM. The only, and one and only company that has pulled this off is Apple. And that might not be so true. There is no way Apple has recouped its investment on ITMS yet. And they probably woun't for some time.

As soon as ITMS for windows is released, you'll see Apple get HUGE advertising (free advertising from the news,etc.) because it will be so easy to use.

Look at it this way. BuyMusic.com opens their music store on May 1st 2003. Lets say Apple had nothing but finally put ITMS out Dec. 15th 2003. Which one would you be using and why?

You guys worry way too much about this stuff. Dell has been working on a music store for at least a year. Its not something they came up with yesterday. Apple knows this and thats why their store is and will be that much better.

The battle is AAC vs. MS. Not Apple vs. Dell. I wish you guys would get that.


Give me a break. :rolleyes: First off your insult doesn’t even make any sense. Its siliCON not siliCONE as in computer parts? As in I can’t get enough of them. As in I couldn’t care less if it has an Apple logo on it or a Dell logo, or a Amiga logo.

If it’s any good? Define good? Most of Dell’s products are “good” in fact there are more then a few that could be defined as “great” AND undercut their competition in price by a landslide. That alone should cause Apple to be highly concerned if not panicked.

DRM in WMA can be used in a number of ways. Anything from highly restrictive to relatively loose to nonexistent. It depends on what Dell can negotiate with the RIAA. If they wanted to they could allow burning to as many CD's as a person wants. They could allow sharing across multiple devices. It depends on how they implement the security.
As for broad spectrum compatibility look up the specs for most MP3 players other then the iPod. Just about everything supports WMA. Find me another player that supports AAC. MS has done a good job at sneaking support for WMA into the market place even though no one uses it. It’s a Trojan horse on a massive scale.
If you aren’t concerned they you don’t know Dell. You don’t understand how they do business and how they are kicking the snot out of their competition in the PC world. Do you have any idea how many computers they sell within a week, month, year? Neither do I but it’s a lot. :p Now imagine that during the purchase process you have that nice little dropdown menu to purchase your MP3 player for $XXX. All those potential customers ARE a concern for Apple because unless they are going to be supporting WMA in iTunes for Windows there is little to no chance that anyone who purchases one of these devices will use the iTMS. Why purchase music if you can’t play it on your device? Everything ties into everything else. If for some reason the iPod’s market share starts to slip because of this it can and will effect how well iTMS performs on the PC. Like it or not this IS a battle between PC and Apple. Not Dell and Apple. If the iPod market shares doesn’t hold or grow neither will the use of iTMS on the PC.
Like it or not the iPod isn’t godlike. Its can be dethroned.

[Moz]

Originally posted by shadowfax
here's one for you. what the hell is your problem? don't take it personally--any more than i should take your comment about the company my dad works for. he does a good job, and Dell is good at plenty of things. if they have some issues, well, such is life. steve jobs pisses me and a lot of other people off with very matched frequency.

again, how can you call this an iPod rip? isn't that like saying, oh god, look at that
Audi TT! it's a complete copy of the VW beetle. they took the arching roof, and, jeez, they even used wheels! what is the world coming to?

this is not some iPod rip. they are making their own brand of innovation. the control system is perfectly unique. and it's shaped like a 1.8 inch hard drive. big surprise.

How can you possibly say that this is not a complete iPod rip? It's a peecee branded iPod! If dull, oh, I mean Dell, was really, truly making their own brand of innovation, then they'd show the world something that Apple hasn't already.

The peecee makers out there will continually copy Apple forever. Apple has always been the leader, and the one company that actually innovates new technologies, and new hardware, etc. Sometimes Apple's offerings miss the mark (Cube), but most of the time, after Apple's big success in a market, the peecee makers then try to copy. For christ's sake, this iPod by Dell is even white. I thought dell's color was black...???

Again, immitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Thank you dell, for showing us that Apple is the leader yet again, and you're bound to follow.

[mvc]

Originally posted by dho
The D-pod?

Welcome to the iDud :p

Or maybe the iSore

What about the iDull

C'mon people work with me here!;)

[digitalbiker]

What is all the frenzy about? Apple neither invented nor created the first mp3 player. Apple was not the first to sell online music.

Apple did design a really nice product (ipod) that commanded an equally nice price. Apple also worked a nice deal with a few music industry giants and made an easy to access, simple music download site, that satisfied copyright holders.

So whats wrong with competition? If Dell does build a nice cheap mp3 player and they design a nice music site to compete with Apple, so much the better for Dell and the average consumer.

If Apple stays the leader and continues to innovate Dell's player and music store go down the drain and the consumer is still the winner.

Where's the beef?

Apple is obviously is control of their own fate as is Dell.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Photorun
Doubtful Apple will lower their prices so nobody get their hopes up. Apple has spent it's entire existance pretty clueless that in some cases a lower price means more volume and more adoption of product. It's never occured them before so probably wont ever. Then again remember Apple is profitable as a company perhaps thanks to the mark-up, as opposed to most other computer makers, excepting Dell, who basically is just a poor man's Apple... a VERY poor man's Apple.

I disagree.

Apple has been known to lower its prices to counter competition. It is just not Apple's prefered strategy. Apple's prefered strategy is always to innovate their products, to make them stand out in the crowd, to make them worth the markup.

When Apple can't innovate in a reasonable fashion, it cuts prices. We've seen this a few times in the last two years.

IMHO, what is good about this is not necessarily that Apple will start selling its iPods for $200 less, but that Apple will be pressured to bring their iPods to "the next level" ... a price cut is the booby prize, IMHO.

[Fukui]

Originally posted by Shadey
Silicon graphics had a computer much like the Apple Cube in the early nineties, but I bet you guys thought Apple's was so great, until it died just as quick as SG's did.

Actually, thats wrong. NeXT was making cubes back in the mid-eighties. NeXT was a company that Steve Jobs put together before he came back to Apple. When Steve came back to apple, he just made another one...and uh charged too much.
And it was very very great...I know, I got one. :D

[Shadey]

Originally posted by porovaara
Every single statement there was wrong. Do a google and you will find the first mp3 player on the market.

Handango had the first HD based mp3 player, it was out when Diamond was just pushing their 64meg players. Yes, years before anyone else. It was actually a Compaq designed with production licensed to another company.

No SGI was every even remotely like the cube, are you thinking of the o2?

There is no real innovation much anymore, instead it is all evolution and whats wrong with that?

Well, if Diamond wasn't the first, then whoever they were did some ****ty marketing to get their product out. I just remember hearing Diamond had to go to court over the sale of theirs, for obvious reasons.

I know SGI had a smaller computer, and I can't find it now.

I was saying exactly what you said, evolution, not revolution.

EDIT: really, Fukui? Oh, sorry, didn't know next did that. I do know who next is tho... :D

[sXe]

wow, that player looks like crap. glad i have my iPod. if i ever see someone who owns one, i'm going to laugh at them and shove my iPod in their face. just to prove that mine is so much better...

this is just a move by dell to try to become the apple of the PC industry...wait, macs are PCs...a failed attempt if i must say by dell.

[Shadey]

As a question that kind of relates to this, what do you people use your iPod's for anyway? I really don't see the practicality of it. I have a CD player in my car, so it's not like I would get the same quality with an RF transmitter.

I'm just looking for a real reason to buy one.

[Matty P]

"Dell Media Experience is an application that will soon ship standard on all new Dimension desktops. It enables consumers to use their PC to manage digital media such as photos, music, digital videos and DVDs. Dell Media Experience is designed to be an important tool for making the PC the nerve center of the digital home. "

Note the inclusion of DVD in the new Dell 'iLife' app, I wonder if it will be a iTunes type app for DVD's. Ive been waiting ages for Apple to do this and still I wait! If Dell are going to do this then I might look at getting one of there box's as a home entertainment center.

If I don't get what I want!!!!!!!!

I would love to see Apple bring out a nice little box that that sits on my desk or under my TV that can hold all my Music, DVD's, Photo's and act as a TIVO with 802.11g. Then I could archive all my DVD's, listen to my music, look at photos and browse the internet all in my living room with one remote!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How much longer do I have to wait!!!!! I could go build a wintell box with what I want now! But I want and apple box that I just press the power button and it works!

I want!!!!!!!!!!

[tizza]

Uhrrrrgh that DELL player is so ugly! - I think that's confirmed my decision even more to go out and buy an iPod rather than anything else!!:D

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by bertagert
The only, and one and only company that has pulled this off is Apple. And that might not be so true. There is no way Apple has recouped its investment on ITMS yet. And they probably woun't for some time.


Far be it from me to interject facts here, but Apple stated they had recouped their startup expenses ithin the first month of operation, IIRC.



The battle is AAC vs. MS. Not Apple vs. Dell. I wish you guys would get that.

I agree. Personally, I don't see a WMA-based service thriving; MS simply has not gotten its act together with regard to the purchasing experience yet. Maybe next version, but that's not going to be out for some time.

The great advantage of Apple is that they are going to labels and offering a single, pretty much take-it-or-leave-it, one-size-fits-all contract. Can you control how many times the customer burns "Barracuda" onto a CD? Nope, not physically possible. Can you make sure they only ever listen to "You Can Call me Al" on one portable device? Nope, not physically possible. Can you make our web site pop up in their browser to the beat of the music every time they play "I like Big Butts" on their computer? Nope, not physically possible.

With a WMA "solution", the answer is always, "if you make the deal sweet enough for us ..." Which means, in the end, the consumer suffers from lack of consistency, a horrible burden of keeping track of licensing specifics that make no logical sense but were instead the result of back-room negotiations ("Okay, you give me an extra CD burn and I'll give you an extra 2 cents of purchase price ... you give me the ability to copy to another Windows machine and I'll let you forbid any portable devices ...").

Frankly, lawyers don't have the backbone to hammer out a consistent and reliable contract. If the technology allows for absolute inconsistency, then the contracts will reflect that.

Sounds like an odd argument to be making (as a software engineer I love more controls and switches and fiddles), but I think it is true in this case. Apple's solution is intrinsically simple, and intrinsically limitted, which is why the end result remains ultimately simple and easy for the consumer.

[greenstork]

Originally posted by Shadey
As a question that kind of relates to this, what do you people use your iPod's for anyway? I really don't see the practicality of it. I have a CD player in my car, so it's not like I would get the same quality with an RF transmitter.

I'm just looking for a real reason to buy one.

To be able to listen to my entire music library with a few flicks of my thumb has changed my entire music listening experience. I don't have to change a CD or look for the CD for that matter. The iPod has excellent playlists and the full library shuffle is always a treat for pulling out those deep cuts from my library that I might never choose but almost ALWAYS enjoy.

My guess is that you don't have iTunes and you're a Windows guy becuase if you had iTunes you'd understand what I'm talking about.

Honestly, I thought mp3 players were no big deal when they came out but since I have gotten my iPod, I can't say how much that perception has changed. It will change the way you listen to music and it's well worth the money spent. That's just my two $.02

edit: spelling

[phillymjs]

Originally posted by Shadey
As a question that kind of relates to this, what do you people use your iPod's for anyway?

Carrying around our entire CD collections in our shirt pockets, so we can listen to any song in our collection at the slightest whim.

Originally posted by Shadey
I really don't see the practicality of it.

You don't see the practicality of being able to carry around your entire CD collection in your shirt pockets, so you can listen to any song in your collection at the slightest whim?

Originally posted by Shadey
I'm just looking for a real reason to buy one.

Buy one so you can carry around your entire CD collection in your shirt pockets, so you can listen to any song in your collection at the slightest whim!

My car has a combo CD and cassette stereo. My iPod sounds fine through one of those cassette adapters. However, I did purchase a converter so I can connect the iPod to the unused CD changer port on the back of the stereo-- just haven't yet been motivated to tear apart my center console and yank out the stereo to connect it. BTW, the converter was made for use with XM Radio units, but since it just breaks out into L & R RCA jacks, you can connect pretty much any audio device to it.

~Philly

[Dahl]

Originally posted by digitalbiker
What is all the frenzy about? Apple neither invented nor created the first mp3 player. Apple was not the first to sell online music.

It's simple, great companies make great products.
That doesn't necessarily mean they are first. Many companies disappear after introducing a product, but if they can't keep up coming out with new great products or improve on exciting ones, they will fail.
Another thing to consider is TIMING, Apple ( and Dell ) could release a ton of crazy and fun products, but if they don't serve the customers 100%, they will fail.
It's not about being first, it's about being the best. What's why the iPod is a huge success, while earlier bricks went under.

I have a stack of old Wired magazines with many cool gadget reviews, but most of the products are gone today, simply because they didn't understand peoples needs and desires.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Moz
How can you possibly say that this is not a complete iPod rip? It's a peecee branded iPod! If dull, oh, I mean Dell, was really, truly making their own brand of innovation, then they'd show the world something that Apple hasn't already. well, apple, that fortress of creativity and innovation, still can't come up with a scrolling mouse. the Dell thing adds that to it.

think about something for a minute. apple's motto is think different. Dell's is "use the best business model." Dell is not committed to revolutionizing tech, they are committed to making it affordable, something that apple is not always so good at. that's their innovation; that's what apple must compete with. do you not realize that dell's business model is "completely ripped" by all kinds of businesses?

and again, a "complete rip" would be an iPod rebranded as dell. go check that picture over. it doesn't look like an iPod. the interface is very different.

[Dahl]

Some car makers are now making special room in the car for the iPod, but what we really need is an Apple car stereo/iPod, the "AutoPod".

[greenstork]

Originally posted by Dahl
Some car makers are now making special room in the car for the iPod, but what we really need is an Apple car stereo/iPod, the "AutoPod".

Mmmmmmm, yeah, me want one

[Les Kern]

Originally posted by TheFish
As much as i hate to admit it, i think the dj things looks cooler and easier to use than the ipod. i have a third generation 10 gig ipod and the whole touch interface can really drive me mad when it dosnt register after i hit the button, if this thing is cheaper than the ipod id say apple has a big problem.

My hands are 9 inches long and I take a size 12 ring, so the iPod feels like a chiclet to me. After a day or so of messing with it, I could fly through the menus with ease.
Apple has always lost out to the "sweatshop-designed PC ripoffs" because most folks don't have a clue what's really good... like the lines of HP's in Best Buy and the hourdes of lying salesfolk pouncing on the average joe with little remorse... but right now Apple has the market, and should hold it.

[illumin8]

Originally posted by Mr.Hey
three nice confused people voted positive :D .....ha! If you think that Dell will succeed were all others except Apple have failed, I want you to keep drinking that purple kool-aid.
Just more mindless pro-Mac and anti-Dell zealotry. Did anyone ever stop to think that competition like this will only cause Apple to improve the quality of the iPod and lower the price? Perhaps some of us voted positive because competition like this is a good thing.

I'm a proud owner of a 30GB iPod, but I'm eager to see what Dell will do. I'll bet the 4G iPod will have even more features and be even better than the Dell. But Dell does a great job of competing because they buy in such volume that they can drive the price down way low. Have you seen the price of their Axim handhelds compared to the HP PocketPCs?

Who cares if they commoditize the market? Apple could use some competition because $500 is way too much to pay for an MP3 player (yeah, I know, that's what I paid for mine).

Also, if Dell uses the same 1.8" hard drives that Apple does the price of those will go down as well and that will help drive iPod prices down.

[tyson12zoll]

sue

[bousozoku]

It seems ridiculous to scream rip-off about this any more than about the Toshiba or Odyssey HD mp3 players. They also used small hard drives and have LCD displays.

I haven't had any luck with Dell products and I probably wouldn't buy one. They seem to do whatever Intel and Microsoft want of them to be able to marginalise the rest of the Windows world. Regardless, it should stand or fall on its own merits.

If the DJ gives iPod competition, all the better. The iPod could use a huge price reduction. Remember when the iPod arrived? Even the zealots were screaming that it was too much money. Apple could use some competition where they bloody someone else's nose, unlike the clone wars.

[centauratlas]

[i]Apple has spent it's entire existance pretty clueless that in some cases a lower price means more volume and more adoption of product. [/B]

I disagree too. I think they *know* it, but choose a different route. Mercedes knows it and so does Porsche. But, they also know that there are plenty of people willing to pay more for top quality, well-designed products.

Just because they know something doesn't mean they'd be good at it - they'd end up like a Compaq or a Dell and who needs another Dell?

[deejemon]

*

[centauratlas]

>>As a question that kind of relates to this, what do you people use your iPod's for anyway?<<

I have all my CDs (or at least all the songs from them I want - 9800 songs won't all fit on my 30GB) on it. I never have to look for a particular CD. I have them all wherever I go with the iPod. I can find them easily and quickly. I can easily set up a group of CDs as a playlist - for romance or whatever. I don't have to think beforehand "do I want to listen to X or Y? I better grab CD X." I can decide later or change my mind.

It isn't a requirement, but it sure makes it easy to have all your songs at hand. If I only owned a dozen CDs it wouldn't be an issue of course.

I have a ReplayTV too. I could do what I do with it with a VCR also, but it is much easier. With the current models I can share shows between rooms of the house. I could do that with a tape, but this is easier. Same concept. ;-)

[Tom Golden]

ARE YOU SERIOUS!!...LOL!!!!! THIS IS SUCH A KNOCKOFF!! I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT THEIR NEW SITE LOOKS LIKE....IF I HAD TO GUESS I WOULD SAY APPLE.COM HAHA...I WONDER WHAT DELL TUNES 1.0 WILL LOOK LIKE...WOW!

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by zedwards
Wow, some ppl here really get bent out of shape and emotional here. :p

Dell's website is a big ol mess, its amazing they sell computers on it. Is this a pre-release announcement or is this thing/store supposedly located somewhere on their website?

For real... has to be the worst website I've ever been to. I tried to find the Windows Mobile 2003 update for my dad... yeah nowhere to be found.

[bertagert]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Give me a break. :rolleyes: First off your insult doesn’t even make any sense. Its siliCON not siliCONE as in computer parts?
I was referring to your screen name. Silcon Addict...Addicted to Silcon...shooting up...ha ha hee hee...It wasn't an insult. Just having fun with your screenname.
If it’s any good? Define good?
Can you honestly say there is an MP3 player out there that is as stylish, easy to use and durable as an ipod? If dell doesn't produce something even close to it, Apple won't lose sleep. Look at it from my side: I was in Best Buy getting my ipod. I saw a lady looking at the Nomad (I think thats what it was anyway. HD mp3 player). She pulled it out of the box, I took the ipod out of the box. She played with both and took the Nomad(or what ever it was) back and bought the ipod. Why? Because it feels better in the hand, easier navigation and good looking. What I was trying to say was, if Dell's mp3 player is similar, Apple has some concerns. However, Apple has built the ipod into its own entity. People aren't saying, "do you have an mp3 player"...they're saying, "do you have an ipod". Apple has defined the MP3 player market and thats why I'm not overly concerned. Just about everything supports WMA. Find me another player that supports AAC.
Exactly my point! But, maybe I should have made two post for this. What I was trying to say is, Apple doesn't want WMA to rule the roost. If it does, Apple will have to deal with MS. You see, this all started with mp3's. A standard format that no one company had control over. Apple made the ipod to play MP3's. Now we have MS trying to take over the standard format. Apple of course, doesn't want this to happen. And you can't blame them. The reason why I brought this up is because a few people are thinking this music gig is Apple vs. BuyMusic or Apple vs. Dell, and soon it will be Apple vs. Napster. All of these are not true. Its about getting other companies to do the AAC thing. How come all these stores are using MS's WMA? I personally don't understand it as Apple has shown that using AAC works great and allows for decent DRM (Lets leave opions of DRM out of this). Maybe MS just has great sales people? AAC is more free when it comes to reripping, etc. than WMA. The more companies that use WMA, the more chance Apple will have to too. If they do, MS wins the game. Not buymusic, napster, pressplay, dell or even ITMS. Does that help?

[xtekdiver]

I find it amazing to see all the hypocrites getting mad at a PC maker copying Apple. You are all the same people who whine about how porting OS X to Intel would ruin the company...blah...blah...blah. Why do you care if the PC market copies Apple? Are they encrouching on Apple's sales? No. Apple has it's loyal followers and they buy all Apple products to go with their Apple computers. Apple, to this point, has only sold it's platform and products. "Vertical integration" is what Steve calls it.

Ah, but here is the rub...Apple has finally found a cross over hit -- the iPod. But they need iTunes to complete the picture, but they are slow to bringing it to market because they didn't write for the PC originally or even concurently. They are doing this because iTunes is a success and people are not switching to the platform in droves. If iTunes had flopped then this wouldn't be happening; they had to wait and see what would happen. Now you are all worried that others will beat them to market and leave the iPod and iTunes just another nich Apple product.

And herin lies the hypocracy. If you want the iPod and iTunes for the PC market why not the OS? If Apple is so great (and we all think it is) then why not market it beyond just the PowerPC crowd. If I suggest Apple port it's OS you all berate me with insults and scoff at the prospect, but now you are all bitching about how the iPod and iTunes will be marginalized. The only reason that would happen is because there is an our or thiers platform issue; this is the reason companies like Dell or BuyMusic.com do what they do, because Apple refuses to integrate and keeps itself a nich market. It's good they are finally competing. I for one believe that compition is a good thing; it will force Apple to keep innovating thier products to keep people buying it; it may even drive down the price of the iPod too. You would like that woudn't you?

I am glad that Apple exists in any form. Thier innovation is leading the market and they bring awesome products to us the consumer as a result. Without them their wouldn't be an iPod or music store...of any kind. If it wasn't for Apple we would still have stupid beige boxes and crap software.

I say, let this be a lesson to Apple. The next wiz-bang product they plan on revealing better be compatible with both platforms and be ready to go for both markets. Apple can not afford to only cater to itself anymore. I believe that the future of computing is in innovation, integration, and choice.

[phillymjs]

http://homepage.mac.com/mjstango/thinkripoff.gif

[Tom Golden]

Has anybody ever seen this site (http://www.go-l.com/home/) it sure resembles apple's...but those are some sweet monitors they have imagin OSX on those..LOL

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Shadey
I just registered for this news bite.

You guys seriously need to wake up and smell the rotten apple.

While Dell's MP3 player may look like Apple's, Apple certainly didn't blaze any trails in creating theirs.

Anyone ever heard of Diamond? They had the first MP3 player on the market. Creative? First hard drive based MP3 player. All Apple did is make it smaller.


Bzzt, sorry, try again.

1) Yes, Apple made it smaller. Something like 6 iPods would fit in the then-current Nomad. But "smaller" isn't the big deal. The big deal was and continues to be that Apple made it small enough to go with you anywhere (ever lug a Nomad I around? I did. Not pretty!) while providing an intuitive and useful interface.

2) Yes, Diamond had the first portable MP3 players, but the interface on them sucked, both specifically (horrible controls and feedback) and generally (32MB -> half hour of music my ass!) Apple's device was more portable than most flash-based devices at the time, had an interface two generations beyond what was out there (meaning, Apple actually did HI research, didn't just say "well, this button can fit here, and this button can fit there ..."), and an incredible capacity for its size.

3) The UI on the iPod was truly revolutionary. It has since been copied in many ways by every competitor making a device large enough to fit a few lines of text. However, to a one, they still seem to strive to mess up the simplicity of the iPod interface by adding a bunch of useless and distracting crap, which inevitably just sits between me and my music. Back to the original iPod, though: there is NO way you can compare the iPod UI with the Nomad UI!

4) While there are a lot more options out there today, and a lot more "tiny" devices out there today, still none of them can be picked up and used by my six year old instantly (her first iPod experience was two weeks ago in an Apple Store ...)

While Apple != God, the iPod certainly does deserve the accolades. And, the rest of the industry certainly deserves a resounding slap on the forehead.

If Dell or anyone were to actually compete with the iPod in size, functionality, and ease of use, I'd cheer for them (advancement is good). I haven't seen it happen yet, and frankly Dell has a really shoddy record when it comes to competing with Apple.

[xtekdiver]

Originally posted by Matty P
"Dell Media Experience is an application that will soon ship standard on all new Dimension desktops. It enables consumers to use their PC to manage digital media such as photos, music, digital videos and DVDs. Dell Media Experience is designed to be an important tool for making the PC the nerve center of the digital home. "

Note the inclusion of DVD in the new Dell 'iLife' app, I wonder if it will be a iTunes type app for DVD's. Ive been waiting ages for Apple to do this and still I wait! If Dell are going to do this then I might look at getting one of there box's as a home entertainment center.

If I don't get what I want!!!!!!!!

I would love to see Apple bring out a nice little box that that sits on my desk or under my TV that can hold all my Music, DVD's, Photo's and act as a TIVO with 802.11g. Then I could archive all my DVD's, listen to my music, look at photos and browse the internet all in my living room with one remote!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How much longer do I have to wait!!!!! I could go build a wintell box with what I want now! But I want and apple box that I just press the power button and it works!

I want!!!!!!!!!!

Speaking of what we want -- when is Apple going to give us a product that will integrate and control our home entertainment center? Where is my Apple computer that plugs into my stereo and lets me play my iTunes library, the product that lets me view my iPhoto collection on my 40" Apple Cinema Display (which is my TV), and let's me select and watch my DVD collection too? The media PC is trying to do just that, mind you it sucks royal, but they are trying. Anyone try it yet? It really is lame. This is the next big thing for computers aka. digital hub. I already see computer cases in the PC market that look just like a stereo component. It would look just killer sitting on top of my Onkyo receiver; you know, a case with that brushed metal look, like a mini Xserve.. And speaking of that, how about letting me control all my devices with my iPod's new universal remote capabilities? Everything Rendezvous enabled. Let's see, Gateway has announced that it is changing it's focus to the home market and Dell just announced the same thing today. Hello! Anybody listening in Cupertino?

[Shadey]

Originally posted by greenstork
To be able to listen to my entire music library with a few flicks of my thumb has changed my entire music listening experience. I don't have to change a CD or look for the CD for that matter. The iPod has excellent playlists and the full library shuffle is always a treat for pulling out those deep cuts from my library that I might never choose but almost ALWAYS enjoy.

My guess is that you don't have iTunes and you're a Windows guy becuase if you had iTunes you'd understand what I'm talking about.

Honestly, I thought mp3 players were no big deal when they came out but since I have gotten my iPod, I can't say how much that perception has changed. It will change the way you listen to music and it's well worth the money spent. That's just my two $.02

edit: spelling

No, I have iTunes. Look at my profile, I have a 12" alubook. I just don't have an opportunity to listen to my music unless I'm in my car, so I guess I'm not in the demographic. That RCA adaptor thing sounds nice, but my CD player is factory, and doesn't have any inputs available.

[kaneda]

It doesn't look like the ipod, you can tell by the way they put their battery meter to left instead to the right like an ipod.

http://www.chaosmint.com/macintosh/articles/dell-dj-digital-jukebox-h.shtml

If I am Dell engineer I would quit right now, such ashame. :D

[Tom Golden]

I realize this is way off the topic...but look at this thing....and you can get them bigger than this.....up to 92"

[Macmaniac]

I told you it was coming, if anyone one of you saw my post in the general thread I posted about a possible Dell iPod clone, and everyone yelled casue I said Dell was up to dirty tricks, but heh they were, copiers:(
Posted here first (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39210)

[1adonis1]

How can u say this Dell MP3 player is a piece of crap when it's not even out yet. And as far as it being a rip off, i dont see it. It looks good and i hope they sell it for 200.00 bucks, maybe apple will drop the price of the low end iPods.

[Edot]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but the iPod scrolling feature is much more useful than the Dell one. The fact that the iPod wheel forms a circle allows you to continuously school as well as accelerate. If you have to lift your finger like the dell scroll wheel then you lose these feature. When you have 40GB of songs, scrolling fast and accurately is EXTREMELY important.

[Wash!!]

Originally posted by 1adonis1
How can u say this Dell MP3 player is a piece of crap when it's not even out yet. And as far as it being a rip off, i dont see it. It looks good and i hope they sell it for 200.00 bucks, maybe apple will drop the price of the low end iPods.

If you want a low price ipod go to ebay and buy one and move on other wise shut and go buy a new one I paid $400 for my and don't mind, becuause it is the best music-juke box-portable HD-address book-calendar-a coolest device made so the fact that Dell is trying to copied is just so pcee but never will be able to get near the ipod, jut think about it, it has 6 years and no PDA has come close what the newton can do and still can. stop your whining..

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Edot
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but the iPod scrolling feature is much more useful than the Dell one. The fact that the iPod wheel forms a circle allows you to continuously school as well as accelerate. If you have to lift your finger like the dell scroll wheel then you lose these feature. When you have 40GB of songs, scrolling fast and accurately is EXTREMELY important. i think that's a very prejudiced statement. i know from experience with mouse scrollers that such things can accelerate and be just as useful as the iPod wheel. it's a pretty minor engineering issue, much easier than the one with an iPod wheel, and putting acceleration on it.

[1adonis1]

You have used ONE mp3 player and you proclaim it to be the best, that's foolish.
Originally posted by Wash!!
If you want a low price ipod go to ebay and buy one and move on other wise shut and go buy a new one I paid $400 for my and don't mind, becuause it is the best music-juke box-portable HD-address book-calendar-a coolest device made so the fact that Dell is trying to copied is just so pcee but never will be able to get near the ipod, jut think about it, it has 6 years and no PDA has come close what the newton can do and still can. stop your whining..

[Edot]

Originally posted by shadowfax
i think that's a very prejudiced statement. i know from experience with mouse scrollers that such things can accelerate and be just as useful as the iPod wheel. it's a pretty minor engineering issue, much easier than the one with an iPod wheel, and putting acceleration on it.


Yeah you can accelerate without a constant force but it would be very sloppy with predetermined control of deceleration. I think you would often overshoot what you were looking for.

[MEANS]

Originally posted by shadowfax
here's one for you. what the hell is your problem? don't take it personally--any more than i should take your comment about the company my dad works for. he does a good job, and Dell is good at plenty of things. if they have some issues, well, such is life. steve jobs pisses me and a lot of other people off with very matched frequency.

again, how can you call this an iPod rip? isn't that like saying, oh god, look at that
Audi TT! it's a complete copy of the VW beetle. they took the arching roof, and, jeez, they even used wheels! what is the world coming to?

this is not some iPod rip. they are making their own brand of innovation. the control system is perfectly unique. and it's shaped like a 1.8 inch hard drive. big surprise.

no you look at it, it is a rip off. so all we can do is laugh cause that is what we expect from Dell and that's what we'll continue to get. and by the way the audi tt was designed by the same person who did the new bettle.....

[jaykk]

Here (http://www.businesswire.com/photowire/pw.092503/bb8a.jpg) is another hi res pic

its ugly, period.

[Wash!!]

Originally posted by 1adonis1
You have used ONE mp3 player and you proclaim it to be the best, that's foolish.
Wrong very wrong I have a collection of them from the irock to the rio yo named i tried then and I sold them all on ebay after I got my ipod. so please don't assume that, and the ipod not only mp3 it plays other formats acc, mp3, audioble books come name one "mp3' that can do that...please:rolleyes:

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by shadowfax
i think that's a very prejudiced statement. i know from experience with mouse scrollers that such things can accelerate and be just as useful as the iPod wheel. it's a pretty minor engineering issue, much easier than the one with an iPod wheel, and putting acceleration on it.

A mouse scroll wheel can accelerate, but the moment you take your finger off the scroller to move it back up to the top of the wheel for another pass, acceleration goes to 0 and you start over again.

I know of no mouse wheels that allow a constant and smooth accelleration as allowed for by the iPod wheel. Do you?

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by MEANS
no you look at it, it is a rip off. so all we can do is laugh cause that is what we expect from Dell and that's what we'll continue to get. and by the way the audi tt was designed by the same person who did the new beetle..... what does dell do that is a ripoff? they are a totally standard PC company. they have every class of laptop and desktop, as well as an extensive server line. they have their own fairly unique design, and have for a pretty long time now.

as to this dell "iPod rip," i still think that it's asinine to call it such. all cars have wheels and motors, and steering wheels, and gas pedals, and brake pedals. hell, most cars have windshields and doors too. and we don't say they're rip-offs. this dell is similar to the iPod. stop and think about that though. it's a 1.8 inch hard drive, hard drives are all shaped the same, and if you want to make the thing as small as possible, it had better be damn close to form fitting. the general method of navigation for a large library is basically what the iPod has set up. that's not really innovative or apple specific. the most distinctive thing about the iPod, the big wheel for scrolling, is nowhere near this thing. it's a different button altogether. this is not a rip-off. it's an mp3 player made by someone other than apple. does it make you people feel good to rail on dell? what's so bad about dell?

[MEANS]

its ugly, period. [/B][/QUOTE]

you got it, also did anyone notice it is curved at the top and bottom, it looks as if it will be easy to knock this iCopy (Dell) over, also the scroll wheel seems like it sticks out pretty far as well as the other control buttons, what will happen if you have this in your pocket.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by Lancetx
Personally, I'm glad Dell is around because I think competition is good and it forces Apple to continue to innovate so they can remain 2 steps ahead of the Dell's of the world.

Ha!

Were it not for the Apples of the world, innovation wouldn't happen. Apple innovates for innovation's sake (and profit), not to keep ahead of Dell.

Originally posted by shadowfax
again, how can you call this an iPod rip? isn't that like saying, oh god, look at that Audi TT! it's a complete copy of the VW beetle.

Volkswagen owns Audi.

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Give me a break. :rolleyes: First off your insult doesn’t even make any sense. Its siliCON not siliCONE as in computer parts?

Umm..silicon is what computer parts are made of. Silicone is what breast implants are made of. I'm not sure if that's the confusion here, but there it is.

Originally posted by Shadey
As a question that kind of relates to this, what do you people use your iPod's for anyway? I really don't see the practicality of it. I have a CD player in my car, so it's not like I would get the same quality with an RF transmitter.

I'm just looking for a real reason to buy one.

1. Carry your calendar and contacts on you.
2. Back up your data.
3. External FireWire hard drive.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by jettredmont
A mouse scroll wheel can accelerate, but the moment you take your finger off the scroller to move it back up to the top of the wheel for another pass, acceleration goes to 0 and you start over again.

I know of no mouse wheels that allow a constant and smooth accelleration as allowed for by the iPod wheel. Do you? yeah, my MS mouse would have scrolled really smoothly if my gfx card were fast enough to drive rapid page scrolling. the very nature of acceleration on either an iPod scroller or the dell is that it skips stuff to go down faster. this is by its very nature inaccurate, especially when you add in that its touch sensitive, so when the processor hiccoughs and freezes for those split seconds it really messes up your scrolling. a wheel more like the dellpod thing could actually be much more accurate than the iPod, in my opinion. the big point is, you're critiquing something that you have NONE, ZIP, ZERO experience with, and just assuming it has all kinds of inferiorities and issues that make it worse than the iPod.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Volkswagen owns Audi. what's your point? i'm sorry that my analogy was not accurate enough for you to get the gist of what i meant.

OMFG! that dodge ram is a TOTAL ripoff of that Toyota pickup! look, they both have headlights, wheels, seats, beds, windows, doors... the similarities are striking. someone should be suing someone here!

[MEANS]

Originally posted by shadowfax
what does dell do that is a ripoff? they are a totally standard PC company. they have every class of laptop and desktop, as well as an extensive server line. they have their own fairly unique design, and have for a pretty long time now.




as to this dell "iPod rip," i still think that it's asinine to call it such. all cars have wheels and motors, and steering wheels, and gas pedals, and brake pedals. hell, most cars have windshields and doors too. and we don't say they're rip-offs. this dell is similar to the iPod. stop and think about that though. it's a 1.8 inch hard drive, hard drives are all shaped the same, and if you want to make the thing as small as possible, it had better be damn close to form fitting. the general method of navigation for a large library is basically what the iPod has set up. that's not really innovative or apple specific. the most distinctive thing about the iPod, the big wheel for scrolling, is nowhere near this thing. it's a different button altogether. this is not a rip-off. it's an mp3 player made by someone other than apple. does it make you people feel good to rail on dell? what's so bad about dell?

hmm, let's see, the iPod rip, their soon to be "new" music store, their iMac rip as well...just to name a few(all within the past year!!!)

sure all cars have the items you mentioned now, but someone had to take the initiative to create theses items you mentioned, plus the creativity, and sure enough somebody like Dell would just copy it and claim it was their original idea....at least come up with another color besides white!!, I understand what parts are standard and that both companies have to design around those parameters, but Dell just takes the easy way out and doesn't try to make theirs a little unique. Hell they probably feel all flimsy just like their desktops....yes I do feel good ripping on DELL.

[MEANS]

Originally posted by Tom Golden
Has anybody ever seen this site (http://www.go-l.com/home/) it sure resembles apple's...but those are some sweet monitors they have imagin OSX on those..LOL

wow, wonder if the dell design team made that site....unbelievable...

[LinuxGigolo]

Originally posted by shadowfax
isn't that like saying, oh god, look at that
Audi TT! it's a complete copy of the VW beetle. they took the arching roof, and, jeez, they even used wheels! what is the world coming to?


Volkswagen owns Audi. And if I recall correctly, the Audi TT and Volkswagen Beetle share the same platform (... both based on the VW Golf which has spawned many variants: Jetta, GTI,...). But anyway.....

[Steven1621]

yet another example of the pc world making up for their shortcomings by copying apple. it should be taken as a complement.

[jaykk]

Here is what ZDnet's David_Coursey has to say about this one. I am very sure he is referring to DULLPOD. I feel sorry for the dell executives.

"I was recently visiting with a company I cannot name that's about to introduce a new, hard drive-based, hand-sized music player. It's a very nice unit, as far as I can tell, and the price seems reasonable enough.

But when they asked me if I liked their new baby, I had to tell them, "It's nice, but it wouldn't make me give up my iPod ." The people from the company nodded, in understanding if not in agreement.
"

read the full story here
(http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/AnchorDesk/4520-7298_16-5082496.html?tag=adts)

[bellychris]

the scroll wheel on the dells music player is good for webpages. But try to scroll through 1000's of songs. I dont see how it can be accelerated like the ipod is if you have to take your finger off of it. Well even if it is accelerated there is no way it can be as fluid as the touch sensitive scroll wheel on the ipod is

[scem0]

Originally posted by Sol
Why would people choose the Dell Digital Jukebox over an iPod? It looks like a cheap rip-off and the iPod is allready compatible with Windows.

because Dell will have a reasonable price in all likeness.

scem0

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by shadowfax
what's your point? i'm sorry that my analogy was not accurate enough for you to get the gist of what i meant.

OMFG! that dodge ram is a TOTAL ripoff of that Toyota pickup! look, they both have headlights, wheels, seats, beds, windows, doors... the similarities are striking. someone should be suing someone here!

All trucks look remarkably similar. However, in terms of MP3 players, the iPod does not look like other MP3 players. Dell's DJ is similar to the iPod, although whether it's similar enough to be a ripoff I don't know. I think it looks ugly enough to not be a ripoff, personally :)

Was the Chevrolet El Camino a ripoff of the Ford Ranchero? I think that, essentially, is the question that most resembles the question, "Is the Dell DJ a ripoff of the iPod?"

I'm not sure either way, but it's not valuable to utterly dismiss any discussion of the issue without consideration.

[the_mole1314]

I think Dell will be surprised soon on how big the Apple Legal Department is. Can anyone say candy-colored E-Machines? Also, I wonder if the Dell Music Store will feature 10 burns, unlimited downloads to it's iDJ, and will have brushed metal? I just wonder....

[scem0]

I think it looks really nice.

The iPod still looks a little bit better though.

scem0

[reyesmac]

I just saw that the Nintendo Gamecube is selling for $99!!! Why? Competition! I hope this makes Apple create an iPod that anyone can afford. It's about time. It will be good for everyone.
In case they don't though, I hope this new Dell pod will work with iTunes.

[DeusOmnis]

i think dell and apple are secretly working together....

[scem0]

Originally posted by reyesmac
I just saw that the Nintendo Gamecube is selling for $99!!! Why? Competition! I hope this makes Apple create an iPod that anyone can afford. It's about time. It will be good for everyone.
In case they don't though, I hope this new Dell pod will work with iTunes.

Knowing apple, they will go up to 60 gig, add more features, and jack up the price.

I hope your right though...

scem0

[tazo]

Originally posted by MoparShaha
Everyone is jumping on the bandwagon. That music player is such a blatant rip-off of the iPod. I really wish the iTMS for windows would hurry up and get here.

why? because it plays music and is an mp3 player? riiiight. you're going to have to come up with a better explanation; the thing looks nothing like it besides the white trim; which is not even the same color as the ipod's. I extremely dislike mac users who think anything that comes after any mac product is a 'blatant ripoff'.

It is almost always untrue, and almost always lends itself to more erroneous statements by MR members.

Can't we all just accept other companies make mp3 players? :p

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by scem0
Knowing apple, they will go up to 60 gig, add more features, and jack up the price.

I hope your right though...

scem0

Apple will probably keep the price the same.

*sigh* All this as soon as I buy an iPod.

[scem0]

Originally posted by tazo
why? because it plays music and is an mp3 player? riiiight. you're going to have to come up with a better explanation; the thing looks nothing like it besides the white trim; which is not even the same color as the ipod's. I extremely dislike mac users who think anything that comes after any mac product is a 'blatant ripoff'.

It is almost always untrue, and almost always lends itself to more erroneous statements by MR members.

Can't we all just accept other companies make mp3 players? :p

I agree.

Although I do think it looks like the iPod.

Who cares though? If apple is such a superior company then the iPod will sell and Dell's won't. If that isn't the case then you can't blame people for getting the better deal.

scem0


Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Apple will probably keep the price the same.

*sigh* All this as soon as I buy an iPod.
thats probably true. They will probably keep the same prices and add some more features.

[Juventuz]

I'm going to have to agree with the minority here, I like the way it looks. I'm in no way saying I'd buy it, but I do like the way it looks.

I LOVE my iPod and am thinking of getting another one, but if I was strictly a wintel user I'd consider the dell mp3 player. Let's be honest here, price matters to a lot of people.

[Gymnut]

Originally posted by tazo
why? because it plays music and is an mp3 player? riiiight. you're going to have to come up with a better explanation; the thing looks nothing like it besides the white trim; which is not even the same color as the ipod's. I extremely dislike mac users who think anything that comes after any mac product is a 'blatant ripoff'.

It is almost always untrue, and almost always lends itself to more erroneous statements by MR members.

Can't we all just accept other companies make mp3 players? :p

Well, who can blame them? Apple has always kicked down doors and blazed new paths with PC manufactuers close in tow. I recall the emachine was a rip off of the original imac. Perhaps imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Goes to show how unimaginative and uninnovate PC manufactuers are.

[macnews]

Originally posted by tazo
why? because it plays music and is an mp3 player? riiiight. you're going to have to come up with a better explanation; the thing looks nothing like it besides the white trim; which is not even the same color as the ipod's. I extremely dislike mac users who think anything that comes after any mac product is a 'blatant ripoff'.

It is almost always untrue, and almost always lends itself to more erroneous statements by MR members.

Can't we all just accept other companies make mp3 players? :p

Umm, Michael Dell has said he was coping Apple because they do things well - this was a general comment not specifically about the mp3 player. The dell model is a copy of the iPod with some changes - this is rather obvious from the outer appearance. The inside/functionality of it might be different, but looks help Apple sell.

However, I agree with you in that we do need to accept other companies make similar products to Apple. Always have, always will.

What this will come down to, in my opinion, is how easily you can mix/rip/burn so to speak. What sort of limitations are with the music you download? Sony has a very interesting little mp3 player but it sucks because of DRM. My guess is dell will only as good as Apple will get, if not one step down - since Apple is now a proven good client to the labels.

[solvs]

Some of you seem to be missing the point. Dell is doing the same thing Gateway did with their iMac ripoff, BuyMusic did with their commercials, M$ does with... well, everything. They insult Apple, then rip them off. This DellPod may not look exactly like the iPod, it will probably be cheaper and sell pretty well to the masses, and may even be an ok product.

That's not the point. Michael Dell is always talkin' trash about Apple and Steve Jobs. Then they copy them. Apple may not have been first, but at least sometimes they innovate. They can take existing products and make them better (not just cheaper). Wireless networking, mp3 players, online music stores, all-in-one computers. Computers period.

The rest are just pale imitators. The best part, though, is that every time this product is reviewed they will say "well, it's no iPod". Apple legal probably won't even bother with them. Every time someone has a bad experiance with one people will just say "shoulda bought an iPod". Cheap knockoffs have their market, but you get what you pay for.

And, I mean, c'mon. Did it really have to be white? It's obvious that they are trying to capitalize on the iPod. "It's not a rip, it's a compliment... really". :rolleyes:

[Gorbag]

Originally posted by bellychris
the scroll wheel on the dells music player is good for webpages. But try to scroll through 1000's of songs. I dont see how it can be accelerated like the ipod is if you have to take your finger off of it. Well even if it is accelerated there is no way it can be as fluid as the touch sensitive scroll wheel on the ipod is

Er, think of what you do in Windows with a scroll wheel. You press it in, and a pointer icon appears. You then move the mouse, and the page scrolls proportionately to the mouse movement. You could adapt this for teh Dell, by pressing the wheel in once, and then move the wheel up, or down. The further you move the wheel from centre, the faster the scrolling.

Not unlike a pitch bend wheel on a synth!.

No difficult to do, I'd guess, and, as nobody has actually tried one out, it COULD work that way on a Dell. Means you DON'T have to repetitively lift your finger of the wheel.

But I bet they didn't!

[asphalt-proof]

I think that this is very good. (dell making an ipod like devise). It will drive down the price of all ipod-like devises. Why? Economy of scale. More harddrive devise makers will start making that size of drives making the price much lower of the drive. lower price on the drive will drive down the retail price. Everybody wins.
BUT.. I doubt Apple will lower their prices. Its just not interested in appealing to the lowest consumer denominator. That is not a bad thing.
As far as being a design rippoff... it rectangle and that is probably more drive by the form of the hardrive. Its going to be a common and intuitive design no matter the end manufacturer. the buttons are different. Really the only thing that makes it look like an ipod is the color and the rounded corners. I haven't heard of any car manufacturers sueing each other for the color of their paint being too similar to their own.
I used a jog wheel on an hp hadhelpd and loved it. it was perfect and intuitive for reading books. it was on the side of the unit, however for my thumb. don't know where the dell is. if its on the front of the unit then it would be awkward. I tried out an ipod and wasn't really wowed at the store by the thumb wheel navigation. still want one and hopefully will get it tomorrow when i buy my powerbook.

[asphalt-proof]

Okay just looked at the picture of the thing and saw where the scroll wheel is.. don't like it at all. what i liked about my pda was that the scroll wheel was on the left hand side at the top. my thumb fit naturally on it when hodling it. very well designed in my opinion. this thing on the front of the dell unit doesn't make any design sense at all. a mechanical d-pad would be better but then it would be a bit too much like the apple (even more than the size shape and color). Bad, bad, design. Ironically, i bet it sells well at first simply because no one will be able to play with it when considering a purchase. but i bet a lot of them will end up on ebay in a few months. this is a good thing for apple.

[rickvanr]

Originally posted by Photorun
Doubtful Apple will lower their prices so nobody get their hopes up. Apple has spent it's entire existance pretty clueless that in some cases a lower price means more volume and more adoption of product.

If apple lowered there prices there would be a percieved notion that quality would also be lowered. That would be bad for apple.

That is why you see apple dropping prices $100 here, and a $100 there, over time i think apple will compete with other Pc makers prices, they will just do it as a gradual change so that it isnt so obvious. They also need the extra revenue for R&D, which is very expensive

[kiwi_the_iwik]

OK, OK - so Dell jumped on the MP3 player bandwagon. Big deal.

What you guys AREN'T seeing is that it's NO challenge to Apple in the slightest. In fact, it's more of a motivational platform.

When was the iPod first released? Nearly 2 years ago?!? Well - it's nearly due for a radical new design - with new applications and features.

What Dell have bought out is a piece of technology that is over 18 months old. And THAT will make their product suffer.

The beauty of competition is that it brings out the best in a person - or in Apple's case, in a company.

Don't be surprised to see that Apple's NEXT incarnation of the iPod will blow any and all competition clear out of the water.

We've come to expect such miracles from Apple - and that's why we love 'em...

:)

[scem0]

Originally posted by solvs
Some of you seem to be missing the point. Dell is doing the same thing Gateway did with their iMac ripoff, BuyMusic did with their commercials, M$ does with... well, everything. They insult Apple, then rip them off. This DellPod may not look exactly like the iPod, it will probably be cheaper and sell pretty well to the masses, and may even be an ok product.


Why do you say they ripping off apple?

Because they are making a mp3 player with lots of storage space which has a white frame?

Apple did not invent the mp3 player, sorry.

[Wash!!]

Originally posted by scem0
Why do you say they ripping off apple?

Because they are making a mp3 player with lots of storage space which has a white frame?

Apple did not invent the mp3 player, sorry.

True Apple did not invent the mp3 they took it to the next level, the point is that Dell instead of "innovate" just plain and simple copied the concept and the look just like they do with everything Apple does, for every great Apple product there is a bad Dell copy of it and they have the nerve to say that it is innovation..please.

no matter how you look at it will be an still is a really bad copy of the ipod:rolleyes:

[dilg]

Call me strange, but my first impression was not of an iPod rip-off. Does this device look familiar?

http://www.palmone.com/us/products/handhelds/zire/details.html

So they use a blue backlight - so what. It's a popular LED color and not too expensive either. I actually like the look of this player, and I like the new Phillips player too. Not as cool as my 3g iPod, but I wouldn't be embarassed to carry them around in public. As someone else said, Apple found the ideal portable music player form factor two years ago, and the competition is just now understanding that.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Wash!!
for every great Apple product there is a bad Dell copy of it and they have the nerve to say that it is innovation..please. yeah, the extensive Dell lineup is a total ripoff of apple; it has exactly dorresponding copies for everything. right.

come on people. sure, this design was pioneered by apple, but now that they have laid out the general principles, the fact that they are loosely imitated by other companies doesn't make it a rip-off. do you guys realize what a ripoff is? it's basically making the exact same product with a different name on it. if you're dumb enough to think that's what this is, then i truly pity you.

dell is not into product innovation, and this is no exception to that. but that doesn't make them lame copycats.

[Belly-laughs]

Stop defending your dad, man! If you ask him I bet he´d rather work at Apple.

[Wash!!]

Everytime they come out and say that came out with a innovate product that is a copy of an Apple product sample " We are the first laptop with wireless connectivity" duh!! Ti powerbook please sing that song to some one else. All the pcee world is the same they copy whatever Apple comes out with...

[jaykk]

This is the real rip off of ipod.

I can't believe its not iPod: Zen NX jukebox launches (http://www.kewney.com/articles/030926-juke.html)

All these companies will alwsys copy, but apple will bring the 'next big thing' and it will take them 2 yrs or more to copy. But none of them gets the 'coolness' factor apple brings. And of late, even sony can't bring that coolness. No wonder iPod have a huge marketshare in Japan. You will see a lot of dullpods on the street, but only one mp3 player stands out from the rest of it, and that is our beloved iPod from apple. I doubt Dell or Gates can ever bring that "coolness" factor to their products. Gates and Dell is more successful than Jobs if you measure in terms pure money they are minting, but Jobs' vision is different.

[mrsebastian]

we all knew the ipod knock-offs we're coming, but seeing everyone trying to jump on the web music store trail is pretty funny. unless these other music stores can make things as smooth, clean, and simple as apple, they will not make it. if apple can just get the pc version of itunes out to ensure they take a good chunk of the market, apple will certainly be the last one standing with the best product.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Belly-laughs
Stop defending your dad, man! If you ask him I bet he´d rather work at Apple. dude, i am not defending my dad. that was just a joke. i don't like dell, myself, but you must realize that like 70% of these replies are so full of people who mindlessly adore anything apple does and categorically condemn everyone else as unoriginal, cheap, stupid, tasteless, and so on.

and no, my dad would not work for apple, i don't think. he's not big on industrial design.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by jaykk
This is the real rip off of ipod.

I can't believe its not iPod: Zen NX jukebox launches (http://www.kewney.com/articles/030926-juke.html)

All these companies will alwsys copy, but apple will bring the 'next big thing' and it will take them 2 yrs or more to copy. But none of them gets the 'coolness' factor apple brings. And of late, even sony can't bring that coolness. No wonder iPod have a huge marketshare in Japan. You will see a lot of dullpods on the street, but only one mp3 player stands out from the rest of it, and that is our beloved iPod from apple. I doubt Dell or Gates can ever bring that "coolness" factor to their products. Gates and Dell is more successful than Jobs if you measure in terms pure money they are minting, but Jobs' vision is different.

..... that thing looks nothing like an iPod...

[Wash!!]

Originally posted by shadowfax
dude, i am not defending my dad. that was just a joke. i don't like dell, myself, but you must realize that like 70% of these replies are so full of people who mindlessly adore anything apple does and categorically condemn everyone else as unoriginal, cheap, stupid, tasteless, and so on.

and no, my dad would not work for apple, i don't think. he's not big on industrial design.

Wrong if the pcee world came out a product that is worth having I would buy it but they don't and that's a sad fact...and the reason I bash Dell is because he just copies Apple the others do not they make a nock off and sell it but they do go around saying is innovation or are the first. There is a big difference there...the pcee industry is an stand still with innovation and waiting for Apple to come out with the next big thing and that is sad for a company like Dell that makes millions to wait for someone else to created it and they just copy it but then again the whole pcee industry is like that...so can't wait for next big innovation from Dell ;)

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Wash!!
Wrong if the pcee world came out a product that is worth having I would buy it but they don't and that's a sad fact...and the reason I bash Dell is because he just copies Apple the others do not they make a nock off and sell it but they do go around saying is innovation or are the first. There is a big difference there...the pcee industry is an stand still with innovation and waiting for Apple to come out with the next big thing and that is sad for a company like Dell that makes millions to wait for someone else to created it and they just copy it but then again the whole pcee industry is like that...so can't wait for next big innovation from Dell ;) dude, you need to learn to express yourself. that was extremely confusing to read.

i find your referral of your opinions as "facts" the most telling fallacy in your argument.

one thing you should consider is that this is not a black white world, this computer world. apple has made more than its share of copies. the mouse it touts was.... designed by someone else. their fancy windows environment was.... someone else's idea. you have to understand at a very basic level that there's a difference between design-inspired-by and "ripping off."

[Wash!!]

So be it, but Dell and pcee world still copying Apple anyway you look at it, and life goes on...

[1adonis1]

FYI
macs are PCs thus 'the worlds fastest Personal Computer"

Where was the innovation in making the ipod, it's just a mp3 player. When i first bought my mac, i was told about mac fanatics and didnt believe it, but now i am seeing it.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by Wash!!
Everytime they come out and say that came out with a innovate product that is a copy of an Apple product sample " We are the first laptop with wireless connectivity" duh!! Ti powerbook please sing that song to some one else. All the pcee world is the same they copy whatever Apple comes out with...

Clamshell iBook, actually, but good point.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Wash!!
So be it, but Dell and pcee world still copying Apple anyway you look at it, and life goes on... no, you missed my point. apple is as guilty as stealing others' ideas as any company in the PC industry.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by shadowfax
no, you missed my point. apple is as guilty as stealing others' ideas as any company in the PC industry.

Not quite.

The trip to Xerox PARC was under agreement with Xerox, as was the later use (and refinement) of the GUI.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Not quite.

The trip to Xerox PARC was under agreement with Xerox, as was the later use (and refinement) of the GUI. ah, so if you get permission to take someone's idea, you aren't copying it?

[vitaboy]

Shadowfax first makes the claim that Apple "stole" the idea from Xerox PARC.

Phil of Mac replies that Apple didn't steal because Xerox agreed to let Apple see the technology it was working on (Apple actually paid for this right by giving Xerox $1 million of its stock).

Shadowfax then come back and then says Apple is now suddenly guilty of "copying" and not stealing, as he originally claimed.

In an effort to dismiss many of the myths about what happened between Xerox PARC and Apple in those early years, I would suggest everyone read this personal account by Jeff Raskin (who worked at Xerox PARC, by the way, and later moved to Apple):

http://mxmora.best.vwh.net/JefRaskin.html

It's quite amusing to see people not versed in what Xerox PARC did constantly claiming Apple stole the idea, when the vast majority of GUI concepts that were implemented on the Lisa, and then the Mac, NEVER EXISTED AT XEROX.

It's quite clear that the Mac GUI introduced many original concepts on the very limited, awkward-to-use UI that existed at PARC.

Yes, you can say that Apple took inspiration from the PARC visit, but that is wholly different from copying. You can still be inspired by something and not copy (especially when things like being able to drag icons with the mouse was something the Xerox PARC researchers never thought of - heck, icons weren't even associated with files, they instead acted like buttons or applets!).

If Apple "stole" from Xerox, it's like accusing Beethoven of stealing from Mozart, or saying that "West Side Story" was a rip-off of Shakespeare.

[Wash!!]

Originally posted by shadowfax
ah, so if you get permission to take someone's idea, you aren't copying it?

Apple tooks those ideas and made them work they did not stold them and they improved on them adding their own things Dell just copies them and they claim to invented them just like any other pcee manufacture "not invented here", they have taken lessons from m$ school of business why create something better when I can copied and claim they invented.

Apple is the only real innovator in the pc industry and the other with all they millons can even come up with an original idea even if their lives depend on it.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Wash!!
Apple tooks those ideas and made them work they did not stold them and they improved on them adding their own things Dell just copies them and they claim to invented them just like any other pcee manufacture "not invented here", they have taken lessons from m$ school of business why create something better when I can copied and claim they invented.

Apple is the only real innovator in the pc industry and the other with all they millons can even come up with an original idea even if their lives depend on it. ok. you assert that dell "just copied" and "stold." explain how the scrolling wheel is a carbon copy of apple's (if you think it is, explain why apple's isn't a carbon copy of the scroll wheels on mice), and why the buttons are arranged differently. also, prove that the firmware is taken from apple, or at least that it functions the same.

[Wash!!]

It was compaq or IBM can remember which made it not Dell (by the way take chill pill dude it just a computer) have fun with it. it's not a matter of life ot death. And I'm not saying that Apple invented everything but at least they are innovators

got to home now bye

[scem0]

Originally posted by shadowfax
you must realize that like 70% of these replies are so full of people who mindlessly adore anything apple does and categorically condemn everyone else as unoriginal, cheap, stupid, tasteless, and so on.

I've tried to convince people of this fact shadowfax. The 30% who are actually thinking fairly agree, the 70% who are 'mindless adorers' of apple disagree saying apple really has the superior products without giving the other product a thought.

This is when people stop being fans and start being bigots.


As for the topic of this thread:

The computer industry evolves as a whole.

Apple is guilty of copying and stealing ideas from other companies, and other companies are guilty of copying and stealing ideas from apple. Companys have to steal from each other to stay on top of the game. Apple is just as guilty as Dell.

scem0

[Phil Of Mac]

You can't morally equivalize everyone and everything, scem0. That's not objectivity, that's simplistic thinking. For all Apple's faults, they do not rip people off. Whether Dell is ripping off Apple or not (I'm guessing not), Apple has always gone the legitimate route in their dealings with other people's concepts and ideas, particularly those of Xerox PARC.

Is Dell trying to copy Apple's music business? Sure. Is that a bad thing? No. It's not ripping off Apple. The Chevrolet El Camino was based on the same basic concept of the Ford Ranchero, but that's becuase the Ranchero defined an entire new class of vehicle (a car with a truck bed). So, much like the iPod has defined an entire new class of device, we cannot fault Dell for making a device of the same class.

One may say, correctly, that the iPod was neither the first MP3 player nor the first hard-drive based MP3 player. That is correct. One may also correctly say that Elvis Presley wasn't the first rock and roll musician. However, much like Elvis, the iPod is the one that gave compressed digital music the critical mass, and took upon itself all the demand for such a device that it created. In other words, the iPod is "The King".

[jrg_i]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Philips entry to this market - http://www.audio.philips.com/PI/hdd.asp - which at the time I first saw their simulation of the interface immediately said "iPod knockoff" to me.

The only thing not clear in their demo - I've not seen one for real - is how their scroll mechanism works.

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by MacsRGood4U
http://images.usatoday.com/money/_photos/2003/09-25-dell-jukebox.jpg

My guess on price is $199-$249. We'll know later today I think.
Is that an official picture? If so, it's ugly. Just make it beige!
To Dell:
Beige at least goes in harmony. Fake silver and brown look bad together! Apple White-haters, take a look!:err:

[jaykk]

Originally posted by jrg_i
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Philips entry to this market - http://www.audio.philips.com/PI/hdd.asp - which at the time I first saw their simulation of the interface immediately said "iPod knockoff" to me.

The only thing not clear in their demo - I've not seen one for real - is how their scroll mechanism works.


The Philips one looks much better than the dullpod, at least they got the better color combination.

[brooklyn]

They say it’s Big! It’s Ugly! It’s a knock-off! Well I heard this all before from HP die-hards when Dell entered the PDA market in the fourth quarter of last year with the Axim X5 PDA, Now look… their already No. 4, with a 6.5 percent share of the PDA market sales with that big ugly PDA of a rip-off everyone said wouldn’t sell. I’m neither an Apple hater nor a Dell hater but as stated on this forum before (The competition is good because it keeps the other on their toes producing Quality for less $). I’ll admit that I won’t be getting the Dell DJ (The iPod is defiantly more appealing) but I’m sure this will create a price-drop on the iPods soon!

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
For all Apple's faults, they do not rip people off.

Watson (http://www.karelia.com/watson/)
Sherlock (http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/sherlock.html)

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
You can't morally equivalize everyone and everything, scem0. That's not objectivity, that's simplistic thinking. For all Apple's faults, they do not rip people off. Whether Dell is ripping off Apple or not (I'm guessing not), Apple has always gone the legitimate route in their dealings with other people's concepts and ideas, particularly those of Xerox PARC.

Is Dell trying to copy Apple's music business? Sure. Is that a bad thing? No. It's not ripping off Apple. The Chevrolet El Camino was based on the same basic concept of the Ford Ranchero, but that's becuase the Ranchero defined an entire new class of vehicle (a car with a truck bed). So, much like the iPod has defined an entire new class of device, we cannot fault Dell for making a device of the same class.

One may say, correctly, that the iPod was neither the first MP3 player nor the first hard-drive based MP3 player. That is correct. One may also correctly say that Elvis Presley wasn't the first rock and roll musician. However, much like Elvis, the iPod is the one that gave compressed digital music the critical mass, and took upon itself all the demand for such a device that it created. In other words, the iPod is "The King". that was a nice, balanced post i wholeheartedly agree with. that's more or less what i mean about apple--the ideas that they take they appropriate in a valid fashion--it's not ripping off--but i don't think that the dell thing can be called ripping off, if you say that what apple does is legitimate (and it is).

your analogy is perfect, the iPod is a definition of a class of mp3 player. the DellPod looks similar, as such, being a new player in the class, but it's not a rip-off. it's a portable hd-based mp3 that is intended to compete directly with the iPod, in the same way that 2 businesses have sports cars that compete with one another. this is a fantabulously awesome phenomenon, it's the capstone of capitalism. Apple needs competition to innovate.

i am not arguing the iPod's place as king and first. that's clear enough. the damn thing is revolutionary, and i love mine to death. but calling anything that competes with it a "rip-off" just proves you're an applehead with no head.

[Analog Kid]

The iPod hasn't changed appreciably in years. Apple chose to license an OS from Pixo rather than keep it proprietary. It's not surprising that the OS vendor would start selling into similar devices now that the have a foothold somewhere...

Speaking of which, what happened to Pixo OS-- they don't mention it on their site at all...

I am a little disappointed that when someone finally came along to challenge iPod, they didn't add anything to it...

Though not surprised, I guess I'm a little disappointed to see the obvious efforts to mimic the iPod. I like new designs more than old designs that someone tried to drive a few pennies out of. My guess: Dell took a team of engineers and ID folks and said, "Build me something that will compete with this [iPod]".

I think it'll do quite well-- people will see this as the Windows response to the iPod. Yes, iPod has been available for Windoze for a while, but most people I know don't believe me when I tell them-- or they think it requires special software to inferface with, or it requires Firewire ports on your PC, or...

In the end I think all is good. A whole bunch of folks will start buying the DJ and they'll get addicted to being able to carry their music with them. If it's built anything like Dell's other products, it'll fall apart in 2 years and people will need to replace it so they'll look for something better built-- iPod.

Not to mention I think having more of these things out there is crucial-- it legitimizes the market. The labels are still messing around with techniques to prevent loading music on MP3 players-- now Dell has a stake in the game too. As long as people still dislike WinDRM, all's well.

[Phil Of Mac]

One thing I learned in one of my business classes at school is that either you're going to be on the bleeding edge or you're going to follow up. Being on the bleeding edge has its obvious advantages, but following up also has its advantages. You can see what your forerunners did first and learn from their mistakes, while holding or even improving on their strengths.

Ironically, Apple's business model has not been to be on the bleeding edge, with very few exceptions. The Newton and the QuickTake camera were two of these examples, and with both of these, Apple actually felt the burn. With the Newton, Apple learned the hard way that "Beat Up Martin" and "Eat Up Martha" were not the same thing. (An interesting footnote to the Newton story: The Newton's handwriting recognition was based on work that was done by the Soviet military. An ex-Russian agent actually met an Apple employee at a hotel to discreetly hand off the code!) The Newton evolved into a great machine that hasn't yet been caught up to, but the first model was rushed, and not that good. The QuickTake was also flawed.

However, in everything else, Apple followed up.

1. Personal computing itself: The Apple I came after the Altair.
2. The GUI and mouse interface. Apple did a LOT of innovation over Xerox's work when they worked on the Lisa, and later, the Macintosh. And they even had Xerox's permission (and investments).
3. The iPod.

The difference between Apple and Dell, is that Apple tries to improve upon things. Dell just sells a cheaper version, which is a perfectly legitimate business model.

Apple's way is more admirable, in a way. Dell's is also successful, however. Apple shoots high in quality, and consequentially in price, while Dell shoots low in price, and consequentially in quality. Two business models.

I guess that, in a way, Apple and its users get to laugh at Dell in an elitist manner. But it's not like Dell's being dishonorable. (However, Dell does, sometimes, claim they're the first to sell a wireless notebook, which is a legitimate gripe.

And for a parting shot: Without Apple, there can be no Dell. Without Apple, whose products is Dell going to make cheap knockoffs of?