Apple's Laptop Marketshare Up 2%

[MacBytes]

Category: News and Press Releases
Link: Apple Q2 laptop marketshare surges almost two percent in U.S (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/appleq2idc.html)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by arn

[lmalave]

Impressive, considering that almost none of that increase was from corporate purchases. I would be interested to see what Apple's market share is among consumers like me that spend their own hard-earned dollars on laptops.

[robbieduncan]

Originally posted by lmalave
Impressive, considering that almost none of that increase was from corporate purchases. I would be interested to see what Apple's market share is among consumers like me that spend their own hard-earned dollars on laptops.

That would be interesting, but Apple have been making some large iBook sales in the US to schools. Whilst this is not as large as the corporate market it might well make a large dent in the Apple market share numbers for consumers only.

[Santiago]

This is great news! A good chunk of this increase is probably due to all the Unix geeks getting PowerBooks--it certainly seems like all the admins at my university have switched over to using them.

[coumerelli]

I feel good - that I'm part of that stat.

More and more I think that laptops are the way to go. Just build your own 'docking station' and when you need to go - take your work with you!

[matttichenor]

WooHoo!

Maybe some results finally!!!


But now I'm worried everton will own a Mac, what a shame that would be.


m

[Mr. G4]

or overall computer sale?

[Waluigi]

I bet the G5 has boosted Desktop market share as well....I can only imagine hoe the G5 Xserve will do to their server market share.....

--Waluigi

[Mudbug]

that's very good news indeed!

So - who got replaced in the #5 spot?

[TEG]

Its Awesome, Its just sad that that is just new sales. It would be nice to see what the total percentage of computers in use in the market are Macs. I think if you were to do that, you'll find that at least 10% of all computers (In everyday use) are Macs. Also, If Macs were obsolete as quickly as PCs, our Marketshare would be much higher. I wish that when people (Read: PC Zelots) quote market share, they understand what Market Share means, and the fundemental reasons why.

*END RANT*

TEG

[Viv]

Well I am part of that 2% but only in virtuel mode as they still have not shipped my new 15" with 1Gb and 5400 rpm drive.

I had an email today saying it will ship next week ':mad:'

[FriarTuck]

You're welcome, Steve.

Keep up the good work, and I'll keep saving for the next one.

[kristianm]

Originally posted by TEG
I think if you were to do that, you'll find that at least 10% of all computers (In everyday use) are Macs.

Come on, 10% are way to high. Just check the latest browser ratings, IE for windows has something like 98%. Please try to moderate yourself.

But I think 10% would be a great place for apple to be.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by MacBytes
Category: News and Press Releases
Link: Apple Q2 laptop marketshare surges almost two percent in U.S (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/appleq2idc.html)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by arn
Quite good, bu I'm guessing Q3 numbers won't be as good with the PB updates coming just 2 weeks before the end of the quarter. Though those PBs seem to be selling like hotcakes now. Maybe those 2 weeks of frenzied sales of PBs will make up for the rest of Q3...

[allpar]

First, I think you meant "two percentage points" not "2%." An increase of 2% would be from 5.1% to, um, about 5.1%.

Second, not surprising since we were all waiting for the G5 to buy the big machines!

[beerguy]

I'm doing my part. In August I switched from a Dell PC to an iMac. This month I switched from an HP laptop to a 15" 1.25 Powerbook.

WooHoo - I'm windows free!

[allpar]

That should read LAPTOP market share. Not general market share. So I guess my surmise about the G5 sales is incorrect, tho I suspect that the G5's intro led some people to believe that maybe Apple WOULD be here next yera and then felt free to buy.

Great news either way.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by kristianm
Come on, 10% are way to high. Just check the latest browser ratings, IE for windows has something like 98%. Please try to moderate yourself.

But I think 10% would be a great place for apple to be.
I don't know about that 10% number. But we have to keep in mind that a lot of old computers (5 to 10 years) are Macs, for the simple reason that most of the time PCs don't last that long. And those might not be used to browse the net. Just speculating here...

[lmalave]

Originally posted by Santiago
This is great news! A good chunk of this increase is probably due to all the Unix geeks getting PowerBooks--it certainly seems like all the admins at my university have switched over to using them.

Hey, dude, what about the Unix geeks buying iBooks :)

For web/database programming, an iBook is just fine. My iBook maxed out with 640MB runs Apache Tomcat, MySQL, etc. just fine, and probably not much slower than any of the PowerBooks.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by beerguy
I'm doing my part. In August I switched from a Dell PC to an iMac. This month I switched from an HP laptop to a 15" 1.25 Powerbook.

WooHoo - I'm windows free!
Impressive. All in the space of a month and a half??

[aaronvegh]

Originally posted by kristianm
Come on, 10% are way to high. Just check the latest browser ratings, IE for windows has something like 98%. Please try to moderate yourself.

But I think 10% would be a great place for apple to be.

i assume you're referencing the recent survey that showed this high IE usage. That's based on User Agent settings in browsers. Who knows how accurate that is? I can make Safari look like MSIE 6 right now if I want. And I would, if some nasty Web sites demanded IE. Ergo, these numbers are invalid.

[lmalave]

Originally posted by Waluigi
I bet the G5 has boosted Desktop market share as well....I can only imagine hoe the G5 Xserve will do to their server market share.....

--Waluigi

If Virginia Tech can get their Terascale cluster done by Oct. 1, think about how Apple could use that to market a new G5 XServe. Even if due to cooling considerations the first model had to be 2U size, it would still be better than only being able to put 12 to a rack like the poor folks at Virginia Tech. Plus you'd be getting 2 CPUs for that 2U space.

Yup, I definitely have a feeling the G5 is going to make some serious inroads (relatively speaking) into the server world.

[Stella]

Apple laptops are slow and expensive. WHO would want to buy one??

Errr, thats what we hear constantly isn't it?!!!

So, whats going on then!?

Edit:

SJ was very correct. This is the year of the laptop.

Excellent stuff.

[Lancetx]

Apparently the delay in putting out the new PowerBooks didn't hurt any eh? :) Desktop sales were up in Q2 as well and Apple is now in 5th place in both categories in the U.S. market. It will be very interesting to see the Q3 numbers for both laptops and desktops now that new PowerBooks and G5 desktops were released during the quarter. Sounds like things are definitely looking up. They should be "ecstatic" with this news. :cool:

[beerguy]

Originally posted by NicoMan
Impressive. All in the space of a month and a half??

Yup - :)

I also fit into that "Unix Geeks" classification being bantered about. You folks almost make it sound like a bad thing.

[dho]

This doesn't make to much sense to me. With the large sales of the g5 should the laptop sales be lower?

[rhpenguin]

I am a Linux geek who just switched to the iBook... This is certantly exciting.

Apple is moving forward in the market!

[dxp4acu]

Originally posted by allpar
First, I think you meant "two percentage points" not "2%." An increase of 2% would be from 5.1% to, um, about 5.1%.

Second, not surprising since we were all waiting for the G5 to buy the big machines!

Seeing as it was already quoted as a percentage, it is totally appropriate for him to say up 2%. It can get confusing, though.

[tpjunkie]

This doesn't make to much sense to me. With the large sales of the g5 should the laptop sales be lower?

G5 sales aren't in direct competition with laptop sales as there are quite a few people who *need* a laptop for portability

[moby1]

I just hope those execs has as close an eye on quality issues and service as they do on the bottom line. :rolleyes:

I thought about upgrading my Ti to a new Al Book but I've seen too many posts about quality issues. I'll hold onto the Ti for a while longer...

[lmalave]

Originally posted by dho
This doesn't make to much sense to me. With the large sales of the g5 should the laptop sales be lower?

There might be few people that might have delayed iBook or PowerBook purchases to get a G5 desktop instead, but that number is probably relatively small. Besides, you could also say that a lot of people realized that G5 PowerBooks weren't imminent so that actually pushed PowerBook sales higher since people figured they may as well buy the PowerBook now and enjoy it, rather than wait a year or more for the G5s.

[lmalave]

Originally posted by rhpenguin
I am a Linux geek who just switched to the iBook... This is certantly exciting.

Apple is moving forward in the market!

Shouldn't you be changing that sig to "Macs are for coding" then ;)

Even a year after switching it sometimes hits me how miraculous an achievement Apple pulled off. They made a user-friendly Unix, which every other vendor (including every Linux vendor) has by and large failed to do. Can't wait to see Panther. With Expose and the new iTunes-like Finder, OS X will be the clear champ in terms of ease of use.

[kansast]

This is all good news I think..
our Network admin recently purchased a 15in powerbook to sit next to his linux workstation.. then a few weeks later bought a Dual G4 tower to replace his workstation.
and
what with more stories coming out about schools purchasing large quantities of Apple laptops. all sounds good.

[DeusOmnis]

I'd really like a better break-down of market shares to begin with. For instance, wouldnt homes buy pc's more often than macs since they break down faster? So could you factor the "age" of the computer into the market share, instead of shear sales?

[dongmin]

Originally posted by Mudbug
that's very good news indeed!

So - who got replaced in the #5 spot?

my guess:

1. Dell
2. HP
3. IBM
4. Toshiba
5. Apple
6. Sony
7. Gateway

for reference, Apple was 8th in Q4 2000 (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2001/01/31/powerbook/index.php?redirect=1064574178000). Now if they can only put the G5 into the current formfactor, I can see Apple pushing for the #3 spot. Next 5 years should see some solid market growth for the Mac platform.

[reyesmac]

Maybe this will make them see that if they keep updating their products on a regular basis, more people would buy them. Or maybe it will make them see that if they hold out long enough, people will buy whatever they finally update.

[rhpenguin]

Originally posted by lmalave
Shouldn't you be changing that sig to "Macs are for coding" then ;)

Yes, but it would be messing with a classic quote.. And i gotta give the Linux the props..

I have Yellow Dog on here too, and i use it strictly for coding.. OS X is for work and play which i do the most of. I just end up getting frustrated when i code becuse i suck at it and cant type or accomplish what i want to do.

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by dongmin
my guess:

1. Dell
2. HP
3. IBM
4. Toshiba
5. Apple
6. Sony
7. Gateway

for reference, Apple was 8th in Q4 2000 (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2001/01/31/powerbook/index.php?redirect=1064574178000). Now if they can only put the G5 into the current formfactor, I can see Apple pushing for the #3 spot. Next 5 years should see some solid market growth for the Mac platform.

That is an astounding and historically significant statement.

Also if UNIX admins are buying Macs (G4 and G5) then multiuser workstations are next. Welcome to the machine. Referrals matter.

Rocketman

[orb]

Originally posted by aaronvegh
i assume you're referencing the recent survey that showed this high IE usage. That's based on User Agent settings in browsers. Who knows how accurate that is? I can make Safari look like MSIE 6 right now if I want. And I would, if some nasty Web sites demanded IE. Ergo, these numbers are invalid.

What percentage of users actually know how to do that? Of that, what percentage actually do that? I'd say it's insignificant...

I don't know how to do that with Safari. I could have used it today at the Dell website. They block safari (I'm sure it's not the only one) from accessing parts of their customer service website. I got a new monitor at work and wanted to reset my X configuration (this is a linux box) for the machine for the new monitor. I needed to verify the amount of video ram on the machine, so I went to the dell website on my iBook and was denied access to part of their system because my OS and browser were "unsupported". That's absolutely pathetic.

[agentmouthwash]

Originally posted by lmalave
Besides, you could also say that a lot of people realized that G5 PowerBooks weren't imminent so that actually pushed PowerBook sales higher since people figured they may as well buy the PowerBook now and enjoy it, rather than wait a year or more for the G5s.

I totally agree.. I wanted a laptop and I can't wait until next year when the G5 Powerbooks come out. My new15" G4 AL is wonderful and will last me a long time until the G5 Powerbook goes through a few revisions.

[edgar_is_good]

Originally posted by orb
What percentage of users actually know how to do that? Of that, what percentage actually do that? I'd say it's insignificant...

I don't know how to do that with Safari. I could have used it today at the Dell website. They block safari (I'm sure it's not the only one) from accessing parts of their customer service website. I got a new monitor at work and wanted to reset my X configuration (this is a linux box) for the machine for the new monitor. I needed to verify the amount of video ram on the machine, so I went to the dell website on my iBook and was denied access to part of their system because my OS and browser were "unsupported". That's absolutely pathetic.

Anyway I just checked at http://www.doctor-html.com/agent_stats/

and I only see ~84% on IE, many of whom are macs. Where did this 98% number come from?

[Punky Brewster]

Am I the only one who is wondering what the hell this has to do with 'MacRumors'? Or 'Thinking Secret'. I don't think this is breaking news at all and it seems to be presented in a lack of real inside news. Anyone can obtain this knowledge publically, if you know when and where to look for it.

Also, I'm new to these new mac publications (took some years off, bought pc, then switched back). But can someone tell me What the hell is 'Think Secret' mean? How the heck do you 'Think Secret'? And is it true the person who writes the thinking secret secrets is only a 14 year old boy who is still in high school?

Also, what happened to www.macosrumors.com? Back in the day it used to be ok. I realized that the author of that site started drinking heavily and doing large quantities of ellicite drugs by his early twenties and would update the news very high and messed up and eventyually lost credibility. But now the site is not even accessible!

so what has happened in my absense? we have raging drug addict who is so ripped on drugs he hasnt noticed his site went down in weeks and a 13 year old boy who titles his website after a phrase that sounds so juviniel it isnt even funny.... or maybe i just didnt sleep enough last night!

whatever.

www.appleturns.com NOW THAT IS A GOOD SITE!

DOGMIN! what up broda! Long time no see

#Punky Brewster

[CrackedButter]

Originally posted by dho
This doesn't make to much sense to me. With the large sales of the g5 should the laptop sales be lower?

This is proof that releasing a product x won't effect sales of product y like everybody seems to suggest everytime Apple is rumoured to be releasing something.

"Apple won't release x, not when its so close to the release of the G5. It would effect sales"

C R A P.

[gwangung]

This is proof that releasing a product x won't effect sales of product y like everybody seems to suggest everytime Apple is rumoured to be releasing something.

"Apple won't release x, not when its so close to the release of the G5. It would effect sales"

C R A P.

Um, guys.....laptop sales and desktop sales are to different market segments who are looking for different things from different products. Think about it.

[Jerry Spoon]

Wow. I'm impressed. Maybe it is the year of the laptop after all.:D

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by kristianm
Come on, 10% are way to high. Just check the latest browser ratings, IE for windows has something like 98%. Please try to moderate yourself.

But I think 10% would be a great place for apple to be.


Apple's installed users base is between 10 and 11 percent. There used to be a link at Ambitiouslemon.com w/stats on market share and installed user base but the site is gone. By now the starts are probably 8+ months old but I don't think they would have changed too much.


Lethal

[GrannySmith_G5]

I just bought a 23inch Atari laptop with 70 hour battery life. It makes me fart blood.

[jayscheuerle]

this...

[simX]

Hahaha, that's a priceless Photoshop job. :)

[Freg3000]

Good news. Hopefully 3Q sales will be steady and 4Q will rise again. :)

[FlashBIOS]

Originally posted by Punky Brewster
Also, I'm new to these new mac publications (took some years off, bought pc, then switched back). But can someone tell me What the hell is 'Think Secret' mean? How the heck do you 'Think Secret'? And is it true the person who writes the thinking secret secrets is only a 14 year old boy who is still in high school?

Think Secret is a play off Apple's old Think Different marketing campaign.

I seriously doubt that Nick dePlume, even though he might use a pen name (for obvious reasons), is 14 (also for obvious reasons). The same is also said of Ryan at MacOSRumors, and they can't both be 14. People just like to pick on the writers of rumor sites when they get frustrated that the G6 didn't come out on Tuesday like they reported.

Historically Think Secret has been very accurate.

[Chealion]

Nick at ThinkSecret either just graduated or is finishing up a Linux certification course at his local college. (If memory serves right). He is not 14, more like 24. ThinkSecret is also a really nice site, but MacRumors is the best for following all the rumors that all the sites put out.

[xStep]

Originally posted by kristianm
Come on, 10% are way to high. Just check the latest browser ratings, IE for windows has something like 98%. Please try to moderate yourself.

I've never liked those stats because many Mac users set their browsers to appear as a Windows browser to get around poorly designed web sites. In some cases the sites choosen have been pro Wintel.

Still, I'd doubt the installed base of Macs is 10%. I'd really like to see how that number is arrived at. :confused:

[macMaestro]

Nice pic. I like how the G5 appears to be levatating - a nice subtle touch.

[Peyote]

Originally posted by xStep
I've never liked those stats because many Mac users set their browsers to appear as a Windows browser to get around poorly designed web sites. In some cases the sites choosen have been pro Wintel.

Still, I'd doubt the installed base of Macs is 10%. I'd really like to see how that number is arrived at. :confused:



How exactly do you make your mac browser appear as a windows browser to a website?

[MacsRgr8]

Cool.

So, "underpowered", "expensive" PowerBooks and iBooks are doing very well, eh?

So what d'ya guys think the huge G5 will do?
What about next year???

2004 could ab-so-lu-te-ly be:
"The year of Apple computers"

:cool:

-waiting 4 the future....

[mymemory]

That is because the 12" Powerbook, tough little monster.

[MacFan26]

It's good to hear good things about Apple market share on the rise. Nothing is more annoying when you're watching something about computers on TV and they mention bad market share. I was watching a "back to school" segment on CNN where they were showing laptops and desktops. The guy actually said "Even though Apple has 3 percent of the market share, we'll show these anyway." Ugh.

[Oirectine]

Originally posted by Peyote
How exactly do you make your mac browser appear as a windows browser to a website?



When you visit a website, your browser sends to the server what is called a "user-agent string" which records such things as the OS, the platform, and the web browser. If you activate Safari's debug menu, you can change the user-agent string to a different browser. Basically you're lying to the server about what you're running.

There are several shareware utilities that can activate Safari's debug menu, just google for it. Or you could just type this into a terminal window (while Safari is not running)

defaults write com.apple.safari Includedebugmenu 1


Hope that was helpful :)

By the way, this is my first post to these forums, although I've been reading them for a long time. Hi!

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by Oirectine
When you visit a website, your browser sends to the server what is called a "user-agent string" which records such things as the OS, the platform, and the web browser. If you activate Safari's debug menu, you can change the user-agent string to a different browser. Basically you're lying to the server about what you're running.

There are several shareware utilities that can activate Safari's debug menu, just google for it. Or you could just type this into a terminal window (while Safari is not running)

defaults write com.apple.safari Includedebugmenu 1


Hope that was helpful :)

By the way, this is my first post to these forums, although I've been reading them for a long time. Hi!

And a usefull one too!

Registered a few weeks back, I see.
Good to see imformative maiden posts!

Welcome, Oirectine! :)

[sedarby]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
this...

Ladies and Gentlemen, may we introduce you to the HoverTop!

Better tie that thing down.

[Ed at Bitcafe]

Originally posted by TEG
Its Awesome, Its just sad that that is just new sales. It would be nice to see what the total percentage of computers in use in the market are Macs. I think if you were to do that, you'll find that at least 10% of all computers (In everyday use) are Macs. ... I wish that when people (Read: PC Zelots) quote market share, they understand what Market Share means, and the fundemental reasons why.

Market share means percentage of sales for a given company in a given product category for a given time period. There's nothing wrong with measuring and reporting that. When pundits ‚œ even "PC zealots" ‚œ report that Apple's market share for such-and-such time period was 3% overall or 7% for US laptops or what have you, there's nothing inherently incorrect about those numbers.

Yes, installed base is a nice number too, and Apple's installed base share may be larger than its market share. And yes, maybe pundits should look at installed base more often. But it's not worth too much attention. First, any measure will be very imprecise (what are you going to do, walk into every house and office and count computers?). And just as important, installed base is a look at the past. Market share is a look at the future ‚œ the future of installed base, in fact.

Anyway, kudos to Apple for the great laptop market share news. Let's hope the share keeps rising for all manner of Macs.

Ed
www.bitcafe.com

[Omek]

That's wonderful Apple but could you give me my dang 17" already?!?!?!?! I've been waiting a week now!!!! :mad:

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by orb
What percentage of users actually know how to do that? Of that, what percentage actually do that? I'd say it's insignificant...

And there is also the case of many professional users going to work and browsing websites (where they have a faster connection) using a PC, even if they own a Mac at home. Or the case of multiple computers in a household (Macs & PCs) and maybe Mom is a Graphic Artist on her Mac and doesn't let the kids surf on her computer, relegating the kids to the PC.

There are dozens of possible reasons for why PCs could show up more than Macs, all dependent on the sampling methodology.

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by Ed at Bitcafe
Market share means percentage of sales for a given company in a given product category for a given time period. There's nothing wrong with measuring and reporting that. When pundits ‚ even "PC zealots" ‚ report that Apple's market share for such-and-such time period was 3% overall or 7% for US laptops or what have you, there's nothing inherently incorrect about those numbers.

Yes, installed base is a nice number too, and Apple's installed base share may be larger than its market share. And yes, maybe pundits should look at installed base more often. But it's not worth too much attention. First, any measure will be very imprecise (what are you going to do, walk into every house and office and count computers?). And just as important, installed base is a look at the past. Market share is a look at the future ‚ the future of installed base, in fact.


But marketshare doesn't take into account product lifetimes. I know someone's gonna hate this, but it is really just like cars. BMW's marketshare is even lower than Apple's, however because the car is made better than say a Ford, you will see fewer people replacing their BMWs. Thus BMWs installed base (cars functioning and on the road) will be higher than it's marketshare, and as long as BMW at least maintains that level of craftsmanship, their installed base will be higher than their marketshare. Thus you can't derive anything from marketshare except how much of a product was bought relative to it's competitors for that period of time, it really isn't a good measure of the future at all.

[kaneda]

Wait til G5 powerbook is coming out! that will dominate the whole market! maybe a 20" powerbook & less then 6 lbs. :D

and how about a color screen ipod, that can play movies...:D just imagine you are on the road with your ipod..and watching movie in your car, and then Dell will copy it 2 years later.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by beerguy
Yup - :)

I also fit into that "Unix Geeks" classification being bantered about. You folks almost make it sound like a bad thing.

No, it's not bad... You guys are just, you know, different...:D

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by moby1
I just hope those execs has as close an eye on quality issues and service as they do on the bottom line. :rolleyes:

I thought about upgrading my Ti to a new Al Book but I've seen too many posts about quality issues. I'll hold onto the Ti for a while longer...
What quality issues? Could you fill me in on that one? I just keep on reading posts from people absolutely ecstatic because they have received their new laptops. Nothing about issues. But then again, they are a bit biased, especially right after the delivery of their new toy.

[sparks9]

I think it is well deserved

[Ed at Bitcafe]

Originally posted by Rincewind42
But marketshare doesn't take into account product lifetimes.

Of course it doesn't; it doesn't intend to and doesn't need to.

Thus you can't derive anything from marketshare except how much of a product was bought relative to it's competitors for that period of time,

Naturally; that's what it measures. If the topic at hand is percentage of Macs among all computers recently purchased, then market share is the relevant statistic.

it really isn't a good measure of the future at all.

Changes in market share are an excellent measure of the future. Regardless of whether Macs last longer or not, if market share now is less than in the past, you will see share of installed base shrink in the future. If market share now is growing (and it may be! : ) , you can expect to see share of installed base further increase.

In short: If you want to talk about product longevity, that's fine. If you want to talk about number of computers out there, that's fine too, and installed base figures are relevant.

And if you want to talk about what's selling now, then it's market share figures you want. There's nothing wrong with that.

Ed
www.bitcafe.com

[zygoat]

Good, I'm glad you guys fixed the language in your summary, compared with ThinkSecret's article.

ThinkSecret claims that the market share increased by two per cent. A change from 5.1 to 7.0 percentiles in the entire market is actually an increase of 37 per cent. Way to go Apple.

-ben

[WM.]

Originally posted by Punky Brewster
Am I the only one who is wondering what the hell this has to do with 'MacRumors'? Or 'Thinking Secret'. I don't think this is breaking news at all and it seems to be presented in a lack of real inside news. Anyone can obtain this knowledge publically, if you know when and where to look for it.
Well, I haven't seen it anywhere else. It's not on MacCentral or anywhere else--and they're owned by IDG, whose numbers TS reported (right?)...so I really appreciate it that ThinkSecret reported this.
Also, I'm new to these new mac publications (took some years off, bought pc, then switched back). But can someone tell me What the hell is 'Think Secret' mean? How the heck do you 'Think Secret'? And is it true the person who writes the thinking secret secrets is only a 14 year old boy who is still in high school?
I haven't seen that said anywhere. Did you just pull it out of your hat, or what? IMHO, ThinkSecret combined with MacRumors (and, lately, AppleInsider) will give you the best possible picture of the future of Apple. I think they're generally more accurate than MacRumors, which may be only because MR has way more articles, some of which seem to be based on less-solid information than TS's relatively few. ThinkSecret won't publish anything until they're almost positive, it seems. They have been wrong, but not by much and not very often at all.

To me, it doesn't matter how old Nick is. He runs one of the two best Mac rumor sites and that's all that matters (assuming he's not doing anything illegal in the process--which he probably is in the eyes of Apple... :) ). No need to put him down.
Also, what happened to www.macosrumors.com? Back in the day it used to be ok. I realized that the author of that site started drinking heavily and doing large quantities of ellicite drugs by his early twenties and would update the news very high and messed up and eventyually lost credibility.
Where did you hear that one? Again, I haven't seen it said anywhere else. I don't have much use for MOSR (although sometimes I'm surprised how many of their predictions come true--six months after they said they would), but it's not very nice to start slandering people left and right.
But now the site is not even accessible!

so what has happened in my absense? we have raging drug addict who is so ripped on drugs he hasnt noticed his site went down in weeks and a 13 year old boy who titles his website after a phrase that sounds so juviniel it isnt even funny.... or maybe i just didnt sleep enough last night!
What was the point of this whole rant? To talk ****** about other rumor sites in an effort to be, I dunno, popular on these boards? Ain't gonna work. It's fine to have a chuckle at MOSR's recent lack of accuracy--their fall from grace--but not so much to randomly accuse the man behind it of being an addict. (Not that having a problem with substance abuse would make him a bad person [IMNSHO], but in some people's eyes it might tarnish his reputation, so it's not very nice to say that if you can't back it up.)

Not a great way to start your posting career on MR, IMO.

WM

[allpar]

Originally posted by dxp4acu
Seeing as it was already quoted as a percentage, it is totally appropriate for him to say up 2%. It can get confusing, though.

No, it is totally inappropriate. If your market share is 50%, a 2% increase would bring it to 51%. A two-point increase would bring it to 52%. There's at least one right way to say anything, and this wasn't it. But then again, they also referred to "market share" rather than "laptop market share."

[allpar]

Originally posted by Rincewind42
however because the car is made better than say a Ford, you will see fewer people replacing their BMWs. Thus BMWs installed base (cars functioning and on the road) will be higher than it's marketshare, and as long as BMW at least maintains that level of craftsmanship, their installed base will be higher than their marketshare.

Actually quality is not as important as resale value. When a car sells for $10,000, after ten years it usually ends up at $500...when it sells for $30,000 new, it'll be more valuable used... the original Ford Mustang was hardly a quality achievement, but there are many around because some people HAVE to have one, so they keep getting fixed. Same with the old Jeep CJ series - they had an incredibly high resale value so they got a lot of repairs your better-made Valiants and such would not get. It comes down to "is it worth repairing this?" and for Macs, the answer is usually yes, the machine is worth more than the repair.

As an example, if I take my by-the-way-it's-surprisingly-reliable Dodge Neon to the mechanci and find out the a/c has totally blown, and it's $1,000 to replace it (this is hypothetical, remember), and the book value is $2,000, well, that's a real thinker. But if I take my surprisingly-unreliable Jaguar in and find it costs $3,000 to fix, I'd still probably do it, because the resale value is still over $10,000.

That said, unlike BMWs, Macs do have demonstrably better quality than just about anything else on the market. (Lexus would be a safer illustration, since BMW quality isn't usually on the top of any lists. But I AM glad you didn't choose "bottom of the list" Mercedes!)

[NicoMan]

Put your hands up in the air if you want to hear another car analogy...

Anyone?

Let me see those hands...

Didn't think soooo.

[allpar]

Put your hands up if you want to see more thinly veiled profanity and sheer rudeness.

No hands? Thought not.

[iPC]

What is truly impressive is not only did Apple's market share increase, but the qty sold to equal a percentage point increased also. Apple is growing faster than the competition in a growing market.

U.S. Laptop Unit Sales and Marketshare
Q2 2003 Q1 2003 Q2 2002
Unit Sales 216,000 (5) 146,000 (6) 154,000 (5)
Marketshare 7 .0% (5) 5.1% (6) 5.9% (5)

[lord_flash]

Yeay me - I've got my new Powerbook sitting in it's box under my desk, and I can't play with it until I get out of work (in just over 2 hours).

I also got my .mac account running, but my work eMac seems unable ot sync with it (despite that little bar moving through all the steps and it all looking very encouraging).

Whats' that about? Don't tell me that one of the main reasons I bought the Apple (to work with my office machine) is going to turn out to be a failure...

Is this jsut to pay me back for all that umming and arring about whether I should get a PC instead?

[stingerman]

Wow. Apple's quarterly results are going to be huge. Especially when you add on the iPod, iSight, G5, Pro software, and strong iBook sales.

Maybe Apple will see double digit revenue growth. I noticed the G5 jumped back into the top 10 sales chart on the Apple store along with the iPod, powerbooks, iSight, and iMacs.

[Lancetx]

Originally posted by NicoMan
Put your hands up in the air if you want to hear another car analogy...

Anyone?

Let me see those hands...

Didn't think soooo.

Well, until you or someone else comes up with a better one, you're likely to keep hearing them. The only other halfway decent one I've heard that comes close is the one Steve Jobs used in a recent interview when he equated Dell to Wal-Mart.

It does continue to amaze me how Apple is slammed repeatedly by many for having a 5% market share while automakers like BMW or Mercedes for example, with far less than that percentage in their market, are never criticized for it once. That's why it makes for a good analogy here in my book.

[fraeone]

With the increased interopability of Panther, I don't think it's too far fetched to imagine PC users buying PBs just because the form factor beats the pants off of everything else. At least I hope so!

fraeone

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by fraeone
With the increased interopability of Panther, I don't think it's too far fetched to imagine PC users buying PBs just because the form factor beats the pants off of everything else.

Why not? I'm so pleased with my new 15" I'll certainly be mentioning it to others. (As often as possible). Well, no, not too often - i want to keep my friends - but the build quality certainly did impress me, even though I was expecting it to be good.

Now, OK, it's not perfect - it burns it's way through my trousers (pants, for you Americans) worryingly fast, but apart from that it's amazing. All the little touches: the glowing Apple to help robbers target you, the lovely glowing mains adaptor sockets, oh... it's just good.

Thing is, there is no reason why PCs can't be made to this standard. Or better. There are Sony machines that come close, but they're not cheap either.

Still, it it wasn't for the PowerBook I'd never have been a switcher. That's one.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by allpar
Put your hands up if you want to see more thinly veiled profanity and sheer rudeness.

No hands? Thought not.
If that prevents you from reading the content of the post, you are more than welcome to take away that second word from the subject of my post. You know, that word that everybody uses but when someone else says it, everybody is shocked... In my book it's called a hypocritical reaction. Anyway, it wasn't veiled the least bit.

But I apologise for the bad language nonetheless.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by Lancetx
Well, until you or someone else comes up with a better one, you're likely to keep hearing them.
Why do you need an analogy? Don't you think it's possible to argue your point based only on facts/experiences of the computer industry?

[rt_brained]

The best part about the increase in laptop market share is that huge numbers of existing and future Powerbook users were waiting...salivating....for the new 15's to be released. One would think Apple's laptop numbers over the last year would have been down, as most of us knew the 15 TiBooks were on the verge of being EOL'd and we didn't want to "waste our money" on older architecture.

Just imagine what those numbers are going to look like in another 6-12 months now that the floodgates have opened with the 15" AlBook release.

[Lancetx]

Originally posted by NicoMan
Why do you need an analogy? Don't you think it's possible to argue your point based only on facts/experiences of the computer industry?

Maybe in order to compare things in order to get a better perspective? And why should it be limited only to facts of the computer industry? There isn't another Apple Computer (or a company even remotely similar) out there in the computer industry to compare them to anyway.

Just because we're talking about computers here doesn't mean that very similar situations don't go on in other industries too. In any line of business you are going to see comparisons and analogies to other industries all the time. It's not like it's inappropriate or that it doesn't apply to this discussion just because it happens to be computers we're discussing in this instance. Same goes for cars or anything else.

[hulugu]

Originally posted by kristianm
Come on, 10% are way to high. Just check the latest browser ratings, IE for windows has something like 98%. Please try to moderate yourself.

But I think 10% would be a great place for apple to be.

The more and more I read about market-share, etc. the more I begin to believe that these numbers are entirely made up:

Every Windows purchase includes upgrades so someone going from 95 - XP would 'buy' Windows 5 times. But, that's the same user.
Also, how does this account for machines that are junked or DOA?
How do Linux users fit in: they often remove Windows right away or partion the drive, so Windows gets the market-share count, but is that really honest.
And doesn't Virtual PC purchases count towards Windows?

So, please someone quote some real figures from real statistical data. Everything else is just mental masterbation.

Note: the Apple marketshare numbers come from a real source, I'm not disputing those.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by Lancetx
Maybe in order to compare things in order to get a better perspective? And why should it be limited only to facts of the computer industry? There isn't another Apple Computer (or a company even remotely similar) out there in the computer industry to compare them to anyway.
I am not trying to limit you or anything. But what I am trying to say is comparing Apple to BMW is, to me, completely pointless. The comparison concerns what? Apple the computer manufacturer? But then what about the dynamics of Apple the OS manufacturer? How do you relate to the car industry? Where is Microsoft's monopoly? What level of market fragmentation on the car manufacturing industry? Is that relevant to the OS situation? Can you dissociate the OS from the hardware and if not what's the similarity with BMW???

It's all very nice to take just the part that suits you (not you, ONE) in the comparison, saying something like "all things being equal", because the truth is you cannot escape the impact of the outside factors (the OS anyone?), and if you do your example (BMW) becomes irrelevant because it lacks those conditions.

I know I am being pedant as well as off-topic, etc... But I have to say it when I think it doesn't make sense.

Just my not-so-humble opinion ;) .

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by NicoMan
How do you relate to the car industry? Where is Microsoft's monopoly?... Can you dissociate the OS from the hardware and if not what's the similarity with BMW???

I've got to chip in and agree with this. Cars all use the same 'OS' (Steering wheel and pedal arrangement), and there is a lot of competition. Exactly as if there computer industry was made up of only Wintel box sellers with no Apple at all. Then Ford are Dell and BMW are Sony, or something.

By selling it's own operating system, Apple define themselves are offering a wholly different product. If they then fail to make a large inroad into the market it's legitimate to criticise. It might well be that Apple only wished to target it's niche market, but it's products (iPhoto etc.) suggest otherwise.

You cannot then say "oh, it's ok, it's like BMW" because the real battle is over the operating system. Apple need to maintain a critical mass or developers will leave.

Perhaps a better analogy (though by no means any good) is that Windows v OS X is like America v Canada. One's much bigger, caters for everyone so long as they don't mind "protecting" themsleves (gun/virus soiftware) and is for the most part brash and ugly. Canada is more refined, but the cost of living seems higher. On the other hand, once you've stomached the cost, you get all sorts of stuff - free healthcare etc - and everyone just gets along (like OS X applications).

Sorry Americans, but I hope you see what I'm getting at. And I hope you see sense and stop starting wars for no good reason... (now politics is even more dangerous than arguing about what car is best, but software is all corporate politics)

[allpar]

Originally posted by NicoMan
You know, that word that everybody uses but when someone else says it, everybody is shocked... In my book it's called a hypocritical reaction.
But I apologise for the bad language nonetheless.

Would you use that word in front of a 12 year old? A ten year old? A nun or a priest? Guess what? You just did! in all likelihood, that is.

Profanity on these forums seems endemic...and it's totally unnecessary. If you can't make your point without profanity, you can't make your point with it, either. More important, these are OPEN forums. MAC forums. NOT adult forums. Or "late night humor" forums.

Car analogies may offend you, but you gotta admit they're relatively harmless to use in front of little kids.

(I didn't use it, by the way, I also dislike the BMW analogy, mainly because BMWs sell for their performance - NOT their quality, I'd hope, given that Toyota can EASILY beat their quality and their price - what's funny is very few BMW owners ever press their cars to the point where they'd outperform a Toyota. It's mostly image. BMWs do perform extremely well, but that's not why people buy 'em, any more than the average - the AVERAGE, not you personally - buyer gets a Ford Expedition to tow a trailer. The average Mac user does use most of its advantages, and the longevity is not an image that comes because it's so expensive and made in a particular country that does a good job of marketing.)

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by allpar
Profanity on these forums seems endemic...and it's totally unnecessary. If you can't make your point without profanity, you can't make your point with it, either. More important, these are OPEN forums. MAC forums. NOT adult forums. Or "late night humor" forums.

I did apologise, didn't I?

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by allpar
Would you use that word in front of a 12 year old? A ten year old? A nun or a priest? Guess what? You just did! in all likelihood, that is.
Ah yes, the innocence of childhood. You know after you said that, something was nagging me at the back of my mind, but I couldn't figure out what... Now I know what that is: it reminded of a Simpsons' episode where Homer says "frigging" in front of the Flanders kids and then Ned jumps, horrified, to cover his kid's ears who then says "Ouch, my frigging ears!"...

Sorry for that, but I was trying to lighten up the mood...

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by NicoMan
it reminded of a Simpsons' episode where Homer says "frigging" in front of the Flanders kids and then Ned jumps, horrified, to cover his kid's ears who then says "Ouch, my frigging ears!"...

Ah, the Flanders - always the best characters. I love the one where Krusty the clown colapses drunk in their garden and Rod and Tod are prodding him with a stick:
"Is he evil"
"He smells evil!"

[allpar]

Originally posted by NicoMan
I did apologise, didn't I?

Yes, and I appreciate it, I just wanted to make the point of why it matters. Seems these forums are not especially "clean."

[yamabushi]

Apple's marketshare used to be much higher - that's no secret. Recently Apple has managed to go through spurts of growth when exciting new products are released(iMac,iPod). However, I am still not satisfied. In order to gain serious ground on the PC market, Apple needs something along the order of 40% growth annually. That means that growth needs to be explosive and constant. Not an easy thing to do, but several other computer manufacturers have experienced similar growth in the past. They just need to be very smart about it.

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by yamabushi
However, I am still not satisfied. In order to gain serious ground on the PC market, Apple needs something along the order of 40% growth annually.

iirc, Jobs has said (on two separate occasions),
- The desktop war is over, the winner has won
- He's not interested in conquering the PC market, just remaining a niche player

Obviously I want Apple to succeed and the more people who understand it (I'd rather have people understand than cloned Mac-haters), the better. But at the same time I quite like owning a machine that only a few other people I know own, and having a lot of Mac envy along with the Mac-hating.

AppleMatt

[tom.96]

Originally posted by TEG
If Macs were obsolete as quickly as PCs, our Marketshare would be much higher. I wish that when people (Read: PC Zelots) quote market share, they understand what Market Share means, and the fundemental reasons why

TEG

I totally agree with this! I had a PC before my Mac and it lasted about 2 years, my Mac which replaced it is now on its fourth year, and its still going strong. So the actual sales figures probably don't reflect the true number of macs in use... I know one school that still uses the original all in one macs (like the smiling one when you start up OS9), and they are used alongside modern windows machines!

[yamabushi]

Originally posted by AppleMatt
iirc, Jobs has said (on two separate occasions),
- The desktop war is over, the winner has won
- He's not interested in conquering the PC market, just remaining a niche player

This is my single largest complaint about Steve Jobs. He doesn't seem to even want to try to grow. The idea that Wintel is invulnerable is simply not true. Huge companies can and do fail all the time. Times change.

Originally posted by AppleMatt
Obviously I want Apple to succeed and the more people who understand it (I'd rather have people understand than cloned Mac-haters), the better. But at the same time I quite like owning a machine that only a few other people I know own, and having a lot of Mac envy along with the Mac-hating.
AppleMatt

Why deprive the rest of the world of Macs? Seems rather selfish to me. :) Besides, just because we are wise enough to use Macs, doesn't mean that we should be an exclusive club.

[hulugu]

I actually would like nice even splits between Macs/PCs/Linux Boxen/*Nix Boxen. Maybe something like 20/40/30/10, or slight variations thereof.
Macs should remain the computer of choice for artists, musicians, graphic designers, CGI teams, movies, etc. Windows can remain the PC for business where cheap ugly solutions remain the average, while Linux can eat the rest of its lunch. Linux/*Nix can work the server and infrastructure end. PDAs, web-apps, etc. will have to work with each because of the split and things like Word and IM will have to work cross-platform. Minor entrusions can work in each group and these can change over time within a general mean, but overall this keeps any one company's dominance from messing up anything else.
I don't want to see a Mac attached to an ATM anymore than I want a Wintel box in a Los-Angeles-class submarine. Nuclear power plants, NASA, the Office of Homeland Security should be run on various flavors of *Nix and not on a consumer machine.
If someone really, really wants a Wintel box let them have it, but at least make it into a choice.

[yamabushi]

Originally posted by hulugu
I actually would like nice even splits between Macs/PCs/Linux Boxen/*Nix Boxen. Maybe something like 20/40/30/10, or slight variations thereof.
Macs should remain the computer of choice for artists, musicians, graphic designers, CGI teams, movies, etc...

I would prefer a different split, more like 40%Mac/20%PC/20%Linux/20%Other. But who is either of us to decide what is best for others to buy? If an accountant decides that they want to use a Mac instead of a PC, who am I to argue? I agree that people should have more choice. Right now most people don't even believe that they have a choice at all.

Macs can be just as good or better than a Wintel box for most any purpose if appropriate applications are available.

BTW- I saw a statistic somewhere that said that 75% of the computers used by the DoD run Windows of some kind.

[hulugu]

I don't trust Windows with my stuff, I can believe the DOD trusts Windows with theirs.
Most people buy a computer expecting a toaster and wind up with burnt toast, lost data and BSODs, but for someone who actually cares about computing the DOD et. al. should really know better.
I do thinks Macs fit better with artistic types and I would be comfortable with that kind of legacy, the only people I can't figure out are architects.
Accountants, real estate types, etc. don't really surprise me when they profess their need to have a Wintel machine, but I've always wondered why architects, who are very tuned to asthetic ideas would bang-away on Windows? I know it has more to do with where Auto-CAD went, but still WTH? There is a real segment of the market that Apple could secure if it aimed its sights in the right direction.