French card deck lists 52 most dangerous US officials

[Backtothemac]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/09/25/france.us.carddeck.ap/index.html

Well, personally, I think it is funny that someone would do this, but this guy. Man, he is a friggin idiot. He wrote a book about 9-11 claiming that the attacks were not real, and that the US military was behind a plot.

What an idiot.

[zimv20]

is that the same guy who's arguing that a truck bomb was used against the pentagon?

[Taft]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/09/25/france.us.carddeck.ap/index.html

Well, personally, I think it is funny that someone would do this, but this guy. Man, he is a friggin idiot. He wrote a book about 9-11 claiming that the attacks were not real, and that the US military was behind a plot.

What an idiot.

Funny concept. The French really know how to pick a fight. Heh.

But this guy is quite over the top. To be accurate, he said that a plane never crashed into the Pentegon, not that the 9/11 attacks ever happened. Big difference. I've heard some people in this country make the same claims. Not that I believe them, mind you.

I think those theories started as a reaction to the reletive secrecy with which the government handled the pentegon attack. Compared to the WTC attacks, we had a lot less information about what happened at the Pentegon. This was likely intentional, and probably a good idea given the sensitive nature of the facility and the information it holds. Hence the conspiracy theories start flying.

Taft

[Mr. Anderson]

The lack of info on the Pentagon attack is a fallacy. There's plenty, if you look. The problem is that the WTC attack over shadowed it in many ways, and media coverage was much more focused on that. So much more information was generated on the larger damage.

I remember when a link to his Pentagon hoax site was posted and there were quite a few members who thought it was real.....i don't think I've ever been so pissed on MacRumors, discussing that crap....;)

I still remember watching the Pentagon burn from my office in DC....

And this new deck of cards is only going to cause some sensationalized backlash...:rolleyes:

D

[zimv20]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson

And this new deck of cards is only going to cause some sensationalized backlash...:rolleyes:


"Freedom Cards"

[mactastic]

Love how they describe Bush as a baseball club owner. Oh well, the whole thing is probably not helpful, but you can't blame the French for feeling sore at how they were treated. At least they didn't go around renaming everything American.

It's like the Caucasion Club. The worst thing you could do would be to make a big stink about it. Just ignore it and let it go away on its own.

[Taft]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
The lack of info on the Pentagon attack is a fallacy. There's plenty, if you look. The problem is that the WTC attack over shadowed it in many ways, and media coverage was much more focused on that. So much more information was generated on the larger damage.

I agree with everything you said, except this. I was simply commenting on why the conspiracy theorists had a field day with the Pentagon crash.

Problem is, there was never an outlet for information on the Pentegon crash. The press was much more interested in the WTC attack, and justifiably so. Also, if I remember correctly, the Pentegon did limit the amount of information released to the press as to the details of the attack. Also, much debate was had over the "wingspan theory," which alledged that the plane that crashed into the Pentagon had a bigger wingspan than the hole left in the side of the building. This of course is true, but there are many reasons why it could be true.

Plus, compared to the publically available info for the WTC attack, it is stll hard to find a lot of info on the Pentagon. Try a google search; mostly generic news blurbs and conspiracy websites.

Anyway, I think all of these items added up to a bunch of people with too much time on their hands and too many chemicals in their brains to pontificate on the "actual" cause of the Pentagon attack. I'm not justifying their reaction, simply explaining it.

Taft

[raschild]

Disgusting.

[shadowfax]

that's good... express your dissent by... doing the same thing...

time to put on my republican elephant tshirt and go protest bush in europe with a grin on my face.





i don't have a GOP tshirt. really...

[tazo]

Originally posted by mactastic
Love how they describe Bush as a baseball club owner. Oh well, the whole thing is probably not helpful, but you can't blame the French for feeling sore at how they were treated. At least they didn't go around renaming everything American.

It's like the Caucasion Club. The worst thing you could do would be to make a big stink about it. Just ignore it and let it go away on its own.

Wait a minute... So we are going to discriminate against it because it has something to do with white people? I am confused....

[mactastic]

Originally posted by tazo
Wait a minute... So we are going to discriminate against it because it has something to do with white people? I am confused....

Who said anything about discriminating?

In fact, I am in favor of a Caucasion Club.

[tazo]

Originally posted by mactastic
Who said anything about discriminating?

In fact, I am in favor of a Caucasion Club.

Are you a minority?

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by tazo
Are you a minority? are you asking him that to confirm a prejudice?

[tazo]

Originally posted by shadowfax
are you asking him that to confirm a prejudice?

Perhaps; The only opinion that matter's on a topic of a Caucasian Club is that of a minority.

That is of course because anythign that promotes Caucasians as anymore than the living equivalent of the gum beneath a desk is racist and discriminatory and will only promote racial bigotry.

I had an asian friend of mine say to my face there should never be a caucasian club, simply because caucasians are the majority (as of now).

So perhaps I am checking for a prejudice, a prejudice of that of an individual who thinks caucasians need not have anything that promotes healthy thinking of their race.

[mactastic]

I'm white, if it matters to you at all.

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by mactastic
I'm white, if it matters to you at all.


cracker.



;)








Lethal

[tazo]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
cracker.
;)
Lethal

Riiight

;)

And yeah it does matter; because most caucasians would not have a problem with such a club, while many minorities and liberals I have asked (nearing 100 just at my school...) have stated that they are against such a club....

so yeah it does matter :o

[mactastic]

Originally posted by tazo
Riiight

;)

And yeah it does matter; because most caucasians would not have a problem with such a club, while many minorities and liberals I have asked (nearing 100 just at my school...) have stated that they are against such a club....

so yeah it does matter :o

Oh so because I'm white my opinion carries less weight in your eyes now?

[wwworry]

Originally posted by tazo
I had an asian friend of mine say to my face there should never be a caucasian club, simply because caucasians are the majority (as of now).

So perhaps I am checking for a prejudice, a prejudice of that of an individual who thinks caucasians need not have anything that promotes healthy thinking of their race.

I think the thinking amoung minorities it that there is already a caucasian club in that whites are more likely to get hired first, are more likely to get lighter prison sentences and, as a by-product of that and other things, more likely to get better schooling. THis leads to a greater likelyhood of top paying jobs etc.

So to make an explicitly stated club seems to be piling on, so to speak, which is in bad taste.

Also, relativity and context does exist so sometimes what's ok for one person to say or do is not ok for another person.

(Also I have no idea what this caucasian club is or if it exists, by the way and am just talking off the top of my head)

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by tazo
Riiight

;)

And yeah it does matter; because most caucasians would not have a problem with such a club, while many minorities and liberals I have asked (nearing 100 just at my school...) have stated that they are against such a club....

so yeah it does matter :o

What's your point?

White people aren't offended by their own racism but minorities are? :confused:

[mactastic]

Originally posted by tazo
Perhaps; The only opinion that matter's on a topic of a Caucasian Club is that of a minority.

And conversely, the only opinion that matters about a Black Students Union is that of a majority person?

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by wwworry
(Also I have no idea what this caucasian club is or if it exists, by the way and am just talking off the top of my head)

There is already a thread on this topic at:http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38835

There is also a BBC report on this at:
link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/3143760.stm)

[tazo]

I am going to respond to everyone's quotes of my statements with this:

When you have clubs for minorities, such as asian club, BSU, etc, there should be a club for caucasians. That is fair.

period.

And conversely, the only opinion that matters about a Black Students Union is that of a majority person?

No, not all converse statements apply as you should have learned in math ;)

I don't care for the Black Student Union, for a variety of reasons. One of them being that they physically threw me out of a meeting when I was discovered listening in on the meeting. They said [and i will never forget this] "you're not welcome here" and then proceeded to physically push me out of the meeting.

Another reason? Since I mentioned a variety of reasons here is another: Every year when the Black Student Union throws an assembly for Black History Month, the presentation is practically a Black Panther's meeting, minus of course the forced attendance by many caucasians and many other people whom are not black. The assemblies I have been to presented by the BSU, have always been nothing but hateful statements against caucasians, and a forced remembrance of a time long ago that is neither applicable nor relevant.

You don't see caucasians using a month that is supposed to celebrate their race's culture and history, with the caucasian-equivalent of a KKK rally now do you?

I didn't think so....

[wwworry]

I just have to say, wow...

and that defending an argument with the use of
"period"
"end of story"

and my least favorite (used by candidate for US Senate Pat Toomey),

"Bam"

they are all quite lame.

[tazo]

If there are clubs for every other race besides Caucasians, how is not having one for caucasians fair? That is the simple and eloquent point I was trying to make.

[Daveman Deluxe]

I am personally as much in favor of a club for "Caucasians" (which is a poor term) as I am for any other ethnic group. I think that a Caucasian club, if well-implemented, could be an excellent place to learn about the history of various European cultures that are often overlooked in the standard high school history fare; information about the Norse, or medieval Germany, or even about the Scots going back to the eleventh century. I would personally enjoy such a club.

[Taft]

Originally posted by tazo
If there are clubs for every other race besides Caucasians, how is not having one for caucasians fair? That is the simple and eloquent point I was trying to make.

First, let me say that I am not necessarily against the idea of a caucasians club.

But there are very good reasons why a caucasian club is reacted to violently by minority groups.

Why do minority groups exist? Most exist for a single purpose: to support minorities in achieving equality with caucasians. It doesn't matter if its a minority group for professionals, for college students, for chess...the reason they exist is to promote the success of a person disadvantaged by their race.

Now a prerequisite to this is that inequality exists between the races. I'm pretty sure we can all agree this to be the case. Maybe in terms of the laws (as they are written), minorities are equal, but in everything else (including the execution of the laws), they are at a disadvantage.

The reason a caucasian club can be so offensive to a minority is that there is no reason for a caucasian club to exist. We already have the advantage. The only thing such a club would accomplish would be for white people to maintain their current advantage. This goals seems to me to be quite racist. If the stated (and executed) goal of such a club was something else, I might be able to support the club. But as it stands whites truly don't need such a club because they are already at an advantage.

Now I completely agree that whites should have the right to form their own groups. Hence the existence of the KKK, etc. Other than their horrible goals and ideals, I fully support the KKK's right to exist, protest, and speak.

Finally, the reason you were ejected from the BSU meeting was that you didn't belong there. With statements like "listening in on," I gather you neither asked for or received permission to be there. Also, the BSU has every right to hold their meetings in private.

However, I do believe that if the BSU is a school sponsored organization, they should have to practice non-discriminatory membership. That means if a white person wishes to join the group and supports all of the ideals and goals of the organization and meets any other non-discriminatory criteria, they should be admitted to the club. If they are a private organization, you have no grounds for complaint. Could a black person join the KKK?

Taft

[tazo]

the black student union is a school-funded venture, on school campus, during school hours. I could have potentially sued for discrimination.

[mactastic]

Originally posted by tazo

No, not all converse statements apply as you should have learned in math



In case you hadn't noticed, this isn't math. Nifty way of ignoring the substance of my arguement though. Gotta give you credit for that.

[K4NN4B15]

haha I think its funny as hell. Not just the cards.. but that most american's cant take their own *****. This is simply a satire to show you how ridiculous the whole situation is. Too bad so many still dont get it.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by tazo
You don't see caucasians using a month that is supposed to celebrate their race's culture and history, with the caucasian-equivalent of a KKK rally now do you?

This has been discussed before and you're either ignoring the idea or simply ignorant of the fact: there is no such thing as "Caucasian" as you're using it.

I'm white. I'm not from the Caucasus. I'm Irish-German. I do not consider myself Caucasian at all, nor do I feel I need to align myself specifically with other fair-skinned, non-Hispanic, non-Asian people.

I share no common home with most of them; why should I care what colour their skin is?

If you want a white club, call it a white club. It's not fair to call the black groups "black unions" and handle a white group with kid gloves by calling them the"Caucasian club".

[Pinto]

The guy isn't even being original. Check out these US made Iraq War playing cards from Operation Hidden Agenda.

LINK (http://www.operationhiddenagenda.com/)

[zimv20]

Originally posted by Pinto
The guy isn't even being original. Check out these US made Iraq War playing cards from Operation Hidden Agenda.

LINK (http://www.operationhiddenagenda.com/)

from the site:

The Only 'Official' US Playing Cards, Don't Be Fooled By Imitations


i was fooled

[zimv20]

Originally posted by pseudobrit

If you want a white club, call it a white club. It's not fair to call the black groups "black unions" and handle a white group with kid gloves by calling them the"Caucasian club".

right.

let's form a Majority Club and a Minority Club and be done w/ it. when the Minority Club has more members, the titles will switch.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by zimv20
right.

let's form a Majority Club and a Minority Club and be done w/ it. when the Minority Club has more members, the titles will switch.

all those years when bob dole was minority leader, it always struck my funny bone if i pictured him being the leader of martin luther king and cesar chavez:p

[tazo]

If you want a white club, call it a white club. It's not fair to call the black groups "black unions"

The clubs for blacks across the nation are called Black Student Unions; I am not just giving them some arbitrary title :p

[mactastic]

Originally posted by tazo
Perhaps; The only opinion that matter's on a topic of a Caucasian Club is that of a minority.

Since you made a flip remark and then conviently ignored the substance of my arguement, I'll ask you again, directly this time.

Since you say that the only opinion that matters on the topic of a Caucasion Club is that of a minority, is it also true that the only opinion that matters about a Black Club is that of a majoirty, or white, person?

[tazo]

Since you say that the only opinion that matters on the topic of a Caucasion Club is that of a minority, is it also true that the only opinion that matters about a Black Club is that of a majoirty, or white, person?


No. I just think it is unfair for a club such as the BSU to discriminate against whites, while a caucasian club would allow all.

[mactastic]

Then why did you say what you did?

[Taft]

Originally posted by tazo
the black student union is a school-funded venture, on school campus, during school hours. I could have potentially sued for discrimination.

Funded?? Are you sure? Many extra-curricular clubs are private clubs, with private funding.

Just because the school lets them use a room, doesn't make it school sponsored...or funded. Often these clubs will raise funds themselves, or have dues to pay for their operations.

Also, if it truly IS a school sponsored and/or funded club, do you really want to be a part of the club? Do you have any idea how much of an *** you are being? You quite obviously have no want to further the causes of black students. You are also not a minority in need of support due to discrimination against you, or seeking solidarity with others in their situation. You only want to join because you believe their shouldn't be a black-only club. Think for a second how those black students must perceive you.

I think your attitude is despicable. You obviously don't understand the reason for these clubs' existence. In fact, you despise their existence. You also do not understand why these clubs can be a good thing.

I would like to see you respond to the points I made in my first reply to you. You see, many of us have an ability to empathize with other people. We can see and understand their situation. We see that, compared to other people, certain individuals are unfairly disadvantaged and put down upon. We can put ourselves in that situation and understand why it is hard. We want to do something about that.

THAT is why these clubs aren't considered to be discriminatory. These groups aren't anti-white, anti-male, etc. These groups exist to support a group that needs the support. People understand that. People have empathy.

Taft

[Taft]

From the University of Kansas chapter of the BSU's homepage:

BSU History

Auburn University’s BSU was founded in 1984 by several enthusiastic black students, and was originally known as the Black Student Action Committee (BSAC). In 1989, it adopted the name Black Student Union (BSU). Since its founding, the BSU has striven to improve race relations on campus and in the community by creating an environment that is receptive to African-American culture and ideals.

BSU Purpose

The Black Student Union of Auburn University upholds the following principles: To represent the interests and concerns of Black Students at Auburn University. To bring together all aspects of Black Student life for the purpose of improving the campus environment. Encourages involvement of Black students in ALL campus activities. Discourages and abates institutional and individual acts and symbols of racism. Promotes the Auburn Spirit and tradition of Excellence. Heightens awareness and friendships between races.

Previously you implied that the BSU was racist, held rally's that were "practically like a Black Pather's" rally, and used hateful speech against caucasians. That attitude doesn't show up in any of the umpteen hundred of BSU sites that show up on google.

I'd be quite interested in what kind of hateful speech they used. It seems to me the goals of these groups is to support black students, fight against racism and improve race relations. Maybe a few over zealous individuals take this attitude too far, but the goals stated purpose seems on target to me.

Taft

[zimv20]

edit: talkin' outta my ass. withdrawn.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by zimv20
removed what? glad to have my faith in your sensibilities restored :)

[zimv20]

Originally posted by shadowfax
what?

heh heh. that was fairly indefensible, eh? withdrawn.

[mcrain]

I'm a minority, and listening to you Tazo has made my stomach turn.

I think I'll leave it at that.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by mcrain
I'm a minority, and listening to you Tazo has made my stomach turn.

I think I'll leave it at that. why relate the fact that your stomach is turning to the fact that you hail from a minority? i think it has the same effect on sensible majority members too.

[medea]

I think the cards are mildly funny, but why is it everyone seems to lump one French native's idea with that of all of France or Europe? This isn't a product of the French government here it's an individuals and his nationality should'nt matter, besides an American already did a similar deck produced in the U.S. Guess that means all Americans hate the President. :rolleyes:

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by tazo
The clubs for blacks across the nation are called Black Student Unions; I am not just giving them some arbitrary title :p

Then stop calling it a "Caucasian club" and start calling it what it is, a White Club.

Just out of curiosity, did you ever try to go to a Black Student Union meeting, or ask an organizer if you could get involved somehow?

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by pseudobrit
Then stop calling it a "Caucasian club" and start calling it what it is, a White Club. does this mean we should call asian student clubs yellow clubs?

[zimv20]

Originally posted by pseudobrit

Just out of curiosity, did you ever try to go to a Black Student Union meeting, or ask an organizer if you could get involved somehow?

when i was in college, i was involved w/ the student government. after some racial incidents at school, we teamed w/ the black student union for an awareness campaign. at first, there was a good deal of distrust between the BSU and the almost-exclusively-white student gov't.

it's amazing how a little bit of communication, cooperation and idea exchange can bring people together. and the next term, the number of african americans involved in the student gov't increased substantially.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by shadowfax
does this mean we should call asian student clubs yellow clubs?

Asians are all from Asia, by definition. White people are not all from the Caucasus.

The only thing "Caucasians" have in common is their white skin color.

The only thing all Blacks have in common is their skin color.

[abdul]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/09/25/france.us.carddeck.ap/index.html

Well, personally, I think it is funny that someone would do this, but this guy. Man, he is a friggin idiot. He wrote a book about 9-11 claiming that the attacks were not real, and that the US military was behind a plot.

What an idiot.

Freaks listen up he's not the only one doing playing cards like this. go into any Blackwells store i UK and see similar ones displayed there. go into any card shop and see ones very similar. the only difference is they contain leader like Britsih MP and Spain's. He not the only one and these xcards sell very well....so idiot......i dont think so!