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IlliniDude
Dec 6, 2007, 11:55 AM
Take it for what it's worth, but Jim Goldman just reported it could be on shelves by the end of May. Also mentioned ipod Touch production is being increased to meet demand, and that the ultra-portable macbooks will be introduced at Macworld.

Go easy on me- this is my first post.



chewbee
Dec 6, 2007, 12:16 PM
link?

IlliniDude
Dec 6, 2007, 12:32 PM
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=604750534&play=1

chewbee
Dec 6, 2007, 12:46 PM
I don't know if I can wait yet another 5 months, I'm getting obsessed with buying one!

ks-man
Dec 6, 2007, 12:57 PM
Here is the full article that CNBC is referencing

http://www.cnbc.com/id/22132704

lordgaino
Dec 6, 2007, 12:57 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....................


.......if you want one then buy one, if you want to wait then wait.... its so boring hearing all this procrastination.

I have an iphone, its amazing, yes it will eventually be superseded, but its the nuts and i know that apple rumours spread like wildfire, and that generally speaking as soon as one device comes out they rumour about a new one. For example the micro-macbook.... thats been rumoured to be imminent for over a year. We are still waiting. How long did we wait for the iphone to come out regardless of rumours, oh yeah the 'google phone'.... appparently imminent but we are still waiting.....

GoCubsGo
Dec 6, 2007, 12:57 PM
I don't know if I can wait yet another 5 months, I'm getting obsessed with buying one!

I don't know why you'd wait for 3g, edge is not all that bad really.

chr1s60
Dec 6, 2007, 01:20 PM
While CNBC may be a trustworthy source, it is still someone reporting a rumor they heard from someone. I will believe a release date for a 3G iPhone when Apple announces it.

kimguroo
Dec 6, 2007, 01:24 PM
I don't know why you'd wait for 3g, edge is not all that bad really.

I agree.
I've never used 3G and I am wondering how fast is the 3G.
EDGE is totally fine for me.

does apple already find low battery consume 3G Chip????
sounds like he had the accurate source on both ipod touch and ultra-laptop but He just created 3G Iphone rumor.
I still think they will release 3G iphone in late 08 or early 09 at macworld.
Not may or june.

JD914
Dec 6, 2007, 01:35 PM
I agree.
I've never used 3G and I am wondering how fast is the 3G.
EDGE is totally fine for me.


If EDGE and 3G were automobiles EDGE would be a run down jalopy and 3G would be a Formula 1 race car. There is no comparison.

Mr R
Dec 6, 2007, 01:48 PM
If EDGE and 3G were automobiles EDGE would be a run down jalopy and 3G would be a Formula 1 race car. There is no comparison.

Let me get this right - EDGE operates at a maximum of 200kbps and 3G is around 384kbps??? But 3G allows voice+data simultaneously whereas EDGE doesn't allow for voice when transmitting/receiving data? Also does 3G really consume more battery life than EDGE? Constructive comments please :D

JD914
Dec 6, 2007, 01:56 PM
Let me get this right - EDGE operates at a maximum of 200kbps and 3G is around 384kbps??? But 3G allows voice+data simultaneously whereas EDGE doesn't allow for voice when transmitting/receiving data? Also does 3G really consume more battery life than EDGE? Constructive comments please :D

I don't know the technical details but my brother has an AT&T 8525 and it amazingly fast. I showed up at his place with my iPhone and he said that it lacks 3G. I asked him so exactly how fast is 3g? When he demonstrated exactly how fast 3G is it put my Iphone to shame. :(

MacRumors
Dec 6, 2007, 01:57 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

CNBC's Jim Goldman reports (http://www.cnbc.com/id/22132704) on rumors from "a very good source of [his] with good connections to Apple's Asian manufacturing partners."

Goldman has heard that Apple will be making headlines in the next weeks-to-months related to the iPod Touch, iPhone and ultra-portable laptop.

- iPod touch is said to have had its manufacturing increased substantially to 5.1 million units for the holiday shopping season.
- 3G iPhone expected to hit store shelves by May or June.
- Finally, the rumored Ultra portable laptop will arrive at Macworld San Francisco 2008.

On the laptop, the specs differ slightly from circulating rumors, and pegs the price point at $1500:
The blogs have speculated about this, but he says he now has hard evidence that the smallest laptop ever from Apple is only weeks away. He says the device will feature a 12-inch screen and will be 50 percent thinner--and lighter--than current versions of the MacBook Pro. He says the product will not have a hard-drive, but rely on Flash memory instead and likely retail for around $1,500.
A video clip of his segment is also available (http://www.cnbc.com/id/22132704). Apple, of course, declined to comment on rumors. Macworld San Francisco kicks off on January 15th with a keynote speech from Steve Jobs. As always, MacRumors will be providing live coverage.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/06/3g-iphone-and-1500-super-laptop-in-2008/)

Sean Dempsey
Dec 6, 2007, 01:59 PM
MacPad!

I'll take 2.

GoCubsGo
Dec 6, 2007, 01:59 PM
I don't know the technical details but my brother has an AT&T 8525 and it amazingly fast. I showed up at his place with my iPhone and he said that it lacks 3G. I asked him so exactly how fast is 3g? When he demonstrated exactly how fast 3G is it put my Iphone to shame. :(

I'd venture to guess that comparing an 8525 and an iPhone in terms of speed is silly because you're looking at two completely different mobile platforms. I mean you can take into account some speed differences, but again you're looking at WM5 or 6 (whatever they're on) and OSX-ish.

hoppo99
Dec 6, 2007, 02:01 PM
3G iPhone - now we're talking (I know, I know). iChat mobile - will finally make sense to make video calls.

amac4me
Dec 6, 2007, 02:03 PM
There's a TON of pent-up demand for an Intel-based 12-inch Mac portable. Ever since the transition away from PowerPC, people have been waiting for a smaller MacBook or MacBook Pro. These things will sell like crazy.

lazyrighteye
Dec 6, 2007, 02:03 PM
MWSF, and specifically all of '08, is shaping up to be pretty interesting.
Good fun!

justflie
Dec 6, 2007, 02:03 PM
The tiny notebook sounds like fun. I'm really doubting that I will sell my current iPhone in June to buy a 3g iPhone unless there are significant changes other than 3g. I don't even have (and most people don't have) 3g coverage where I live and go to school so having a 3g iPhone doesn't really present much of an advantage for me unless I happen to travel in/close to Boston. Although the extra 8gb has me interested a little bit, there would have to be some other additional features/additions to make me pull the trigger.

tonywob
Dec 6, 2007, 02:03 PM
*

Spades
Dec 6, 2007, 02:04 PM
12" is an improvement over 13.3". I'd still prefer 10", but if there's a small enough border around the screen, it'll do.

THE JUICEMAN
Dec 6, 2007, 02:05 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

Im trying to decide whether Im happy or not about a new iPhone.........Its going to make me want to buy a new one in less than a year! Is 3g really worth it??I mean for me to buy another iPhone?

lordgaino
Dec 6, 2007, 02:05 PM
3g is substantially faster than edge. however edge is still fast enough in the real world for comfortable full web browsing on a small screen.

the only time that you are going to need full on 3g access is if you are watch streaming video or something like that. and do you really believe that you are going to allowed to watch 3g streaming video without the alarm bells going off about 'fair usage policies'.

so the fact is, that while out and about, there is a limitation to the speed of download you really need- especially when stocks, weather and email is always updated in moments when over edge anyway.

this arguement is pointless. it is indeed like comparing a saloon car to a formula one car. the formula one car is better performance - but how many people do you see driving formula one cars on the highway?

Badandy
Dec 6, 2007, 02:05 PM
Money is waiting for that portable.

Question to people:

I haven't been keeping up lately on flash memory (had some school work I've been doing). Last I heard they could use a 64 GB SSD. Has this changed, what size would you all expect to be in this ultraportable? I don't know how the pricing in mass quantity would be for apple. Any guesses to what will probably be in there?

prg3
Dec 6, 2007, 02:05 PM
one way or another, its all sorting out... :D

if this rumour has even a tiny part of true, Im in for that ultra portable 12" Nanobook Pro

HailToTheVictor
Dec 6, 2007, 02:05 PM
Realistically, for $1500 how much flash memory are we talking about?

eastcoastsurfer
Dec 6, 2007, 02:05 PM
There's a TON of pent-up demand for an Intel-based 12-inch Mac portable. Ever since the transition away from PowerPC, people have been waiting for a smaller MacBook or MacBook Pro. These things will sell like crazy.

No HD and with a price of only $1500 means 32GB or smaller SSD. Seems a lot like a glorified ipod touch at that point...

ks-man
Dec 6, 2007, 02:05 PM
Assuming this is accurate, I'd say that 3G Iphone will probably be released around June 29th for the 1 year anniversary of the launch of the iphone.

aLoC
Dec 6, 2007, 02:05 PM
No hd and (presumably) no optical means a 100% solid state laptop. Has any company done this before?

darthraige
Dec 6, 2007, 02:07 PM
And there's no sources who could find out about any MacPro updates?

Djspice
Dec 6, 2007, 02:08 PM
What are the largest sizes of Flash drives available for a sub-notebook like this? I think these things are gonna be awesome and I'd love to get one but I don't want to have to lug around extra HD space just to make it feasible.

Oh well, I'll probably buy one anyway. Macworld sounds like it's gonna be pretty exciting this year. Here's hoping for some Canadian announcements along the way as well! (Iphone and video at ITMS)

boxlight
Dec 6, 2007, 02:08 PM
Sounds like a neat device, but if it's going to be:

- 12" Mac
- half the thickness of MacBook
- half the weight of MacBook
- no hard drive
- 8 or 16 Gig flash storage
- $400-500 more than current MacBook

... then I'm afraid to say I'll take the MacBook. And I'd bet this machine will quickly go the way of the G4 Cube.

Now if it was $400 *less* than the cheapest MacBook, I might buy one.

olliebraves20
Dec 6, 2007, 02:11 PM
No HD and with a price of only $1500 means 32GB or smaller SSD. Seems a lot like a glorified ipod touch at that point...

I would have to agree with you on that....it can't be any bigger than 32GB.....I guess it would be alright if you didn't work with many pictures or video...you for sure would have to have a small external HD to carry around....by the time you carry another HD and Optical drive around isn't that more of a problem then just having a 15 inch MBP??

tonywob
Dec 6, 2007, 02:11 PM
*

prg3
Dec 6, 2007, 02:13 PM
well 32 gb fells kinda short
i actually expect more like 64gb,

QuarterSwede
Dec 6, 2007, 02:13 PM
As long as it has a higher resolution widescreen screen than the MB I'm in. I have an external backup drive for mass storage anyway.

JD914
Dec 6, 2007, 02:14 PM
this arguement is pointless. it is indeed like comparing a saloon car to a formula one car. the formula one car is better performance - but how many people do you see driving formula one cars on the highway?

Thats true but EDGE is outdated technology. How many people you see now a days with 8 track tapes?

MacsAttack
Dec 6, 2007, 02:14 PM
No hd and (presumably) no optical means a 100% solid state laptop. Has any company done this before?

Yes...

http://eeepc.asus.com/global/

They really are quite good. I almost bought one, but got a (more expensive) iPhone instead.

jbernie
Dec 6, 2007, 02:15 PM
For corporate users with VPN, the need to carry every file on a portable machine isn't there, synch up the ones you need and leave the others behind. Anyway, the more data you carry the more issues you have if the machine is stolen. Anyone seen a laptop with a few million SSNs on it? ;)

To me the iPhone is nice, but a $40 phone is just as useful for me as a $400 iPhone.

If i was travelling every week and could carry a smaller, lighter, more power friendly (flash vs hdd & no cd/dvd drive) then I would be jumping on that quick smart. Lots of fun lugging laptops around when you don't really need all the features.

I think the ultra portable will do well.

mr.fancypants
Dec 6, 2007, 02:17 PM
Maybe we're limiting our imaginations too much. Solid state memory only... really thin & light... other rumors and patents floating around (tablets, touchpads, etc.). Sometimes the raw data of rumors are correct, but the conclusions miss the target.

Could this be something besides a laptop? A tablet pc or something new we haven't thought of yet... some sort of ipod touch / laptop hybrid?

Oirectine
Dec 6, 2007, 02:17 PM
With the tiny size of hard drives these days that have decent capacity, such as the 80/160 GB drives used in the iPod Classics, I really doubt Apple would saddle their ultraportable with a paltry 16, 32, or at best, 64 GB of disk space. I predict a hybrid, with NAND for the OS and programs, but an extra magnetic hard drive for documents and files.

HailToTheVictor
Dec 6, 2007, 02:18 PM
Apple won't release a 32gb laptop, I imagine they have something up their sleeve to make it worth our while. Hell, many people have iTunes libraries larger than that.

MacsAttack
Dec 6, 2007, 02:18 PM
For corporate users with VPN, the need to carry every file on a portable machine isn't there, synch up the ones you need and leave the others behind. Anyway, the more data you carry the more issues you have if the machine is stolen. Anyone seen a laptop with a few million SSNs on it? ;)

To me the iPhone is nice, but a $40 phone is just as useful for me as a $400 iPhone.

If i was travelling every week and could carry a smaller, lighter, more power friendly (flash vs hdd & no cd/dvd drive) then I would be jumping on that quick smart. Lots of fun lugging laptops around when you don't really need all the features.

I think the ultra portable will do well.

Sounds like this is for you...

http://eeepc.asus.com/global/

olliebraves20
Dec 6, 2007, 02:20 PM
With the tiny size of hard drives these days that have decent capacity, such as the 80/160 GB drives used in the iPod Classics, I really doubt Apple would saddle their ultraportable with a paltry 16, 32, or at best, 64 GB of disk space. I predict a hybrid, with NAND for the OS and programs, but an extra magnetic hard drive for documents and files.

Yeah the more I think about this the more I come to the same conclusion....they just can't make a HD that is less then about 80 GB....

Peace
Dec 6, 2007, 02:21 PM
The hard drive capacity just got a smaller footprint and cheaper so this is possible.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/04/stec-announces-cheap-32gb-to-512gb-mlc-nand-based-ssds/

JMax1
Dec 6, 2007, 02:21 PM
If you can manage to tether your iPhone (current or 3G) to the ultra portable and roam wherever you get cell coverage and still browse the net. Take pictures with the phone and edit on the ultra portable. Hmmm sounds like fun. Might dip more into my student loan leftovers.... pay later!

zioxide
Dec 6, 2007, 02:23 PM
I want that laptop. Perfect size for taking notes and **** in class. 15'' MBP is way too big.

MacsAttack
Dec 6, 2007, 02:25 PM
Apple won't release a 32gb laptop, I imagine they have something up their sleeve to make it worth our while. Hell, many people have iTunes libraries larger than that.

There are some 64GB laptop SSDs just on the market. When you go over than the size tends to go beyond what Apple would want to do. I guess they could hardwire the stuff - that could get them up to 128GB perhaps. Problem is, the cost would get a little out of hand.

I guess Apple could make a dinky little 6 to 8 inch pad that can WiFi to your MacBook Pro or even a home machine

Arcady
Dec 6, 2007, 02:25 PM
$1500 seems kind of cheap. Dell's 12 inch laptop with solid state drive starts around $2000 (with 32gb drive.) Add $400 if you want a 64gb drive. And the thing is only a 1.2Ghz Core2 Duo. However, it does include an optical drive.

kingtj
Dec 6, 2007, 02:26 PM
I know there was huge initial demand for eeepc's too. (Everyone is sold out, basically.) But beyond the initial "cool" factor of a little tiny portable with solid state flash memory, I don't see the big deal for most people?

This subnotebook from Apple sounds like it'll fill a similar niche market. Despite all the talk about "huge pent up demand" for a small notebook from Apple, I'm not really convinced it's true.

The thing is, you can ask the "average user" if they'd like to own a thin, light and tiny notebook and they almost always say "Yeah! That'd be great!" But once they sit down and use such a thing for a while, the complaints start pouring in. "The screen is giving me eye-strain!" "I wish the keyboard wasn't so cramped for space!" "This thing is too slow!" "I have to carry around external devices all the time to plug into it!" "I wish I had more drive space in it!" "Such and such broke on it, and nobody can do service work on it but the manufacturer, and the parts are back-ordered for weeks!"

Sure, it will be ideal for a few people. But I wager MOST people will find more usability in something like a 15" Macbook Pro or current Macbook -- even though the styling and "hype" will make a lot of people WANT to own it, at first.


Yes...

http://eeepc.asus.com/global/

They really are quite good. I almost bought one, but got a (more expensive) iPhone instead.

phlabse
Dec 6, 2007, 02:26 PM
Help someone who isn't too familiar with all this "flash memory" out! I'm a student, and I'm going to need a laptop this summer for school next year. I like the portable idea (i had a dell xps m1210) before and I'm wondering if this new ultra portable for Mac will be a suitable for a student.

I word process, browse the internet, email, itunes, and occasional photo editing.

Is this small flash hard drive going to be enough to sustain what I do?

Thanks in advance everyone! (who's much more Mac knowledgeable than myself!)

QuarterSwede
Dec 6, 2007, 02:26 PM
Maybe we're limiting our imaginations too much. Solid state memory only... really thin & light... other rumors and patents floating around (tablets, touchpads, etc.). Sometimes the raw data of rumors are correct, but the conclusions miss the target.

Could this be something besides a laptop? A tablet pc or something new we haven't thought of yet... some sort of ipod touch / laptop hybrid?
Actually, that would work quite well. At work we use Symbol devices (Moto) and the latest generations are touch screen based (no multi-touch unfortunately).

The company I work for, however, uses their own dedicated software and one of the recent updates uses huge icons that are easily accessible with a touch from your finder instead of the stylus. I've been quite impressed with how much more productive I've become because the software is so dead easy to use all while adding more powerful tools. It certainly doesn't look as good as the iPhone GUI but it does work well.

All that to say I could see the iPhone's GUI becoming a hybrid of sorts for a lightweight notebook and be just as useful if not more because of the enhanced usability. Seriously, it's high time for a new interface for computers. One that works the way we do (multi touch).

CrackedButter
Dec 6, 2007, 02:27 PM
A Black Macbook retails for $1500, what gives on the crazy pricing? Where is the Pro premium with this laptop?

JBytes
Dec 6, 2007, 02:27 PM
There's a TON of pent-up demand for an Intel-based 12-inch Mac portable. Ever since the transition away from PowerPC, people have been waiting for a smaller MacBook or MacBook Pro. These things will sell like crazy.
That's something I'll queue up for. I refuse to replace my 12" PowerBook with anything else.

MacsAttack
Dec 6, 2007, 02:28 PM
The hard drive capacity just got a smaller footprint and cheaper so this is possible.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/04/stec-announces-cheap-32gb-to-512gb-mlc-nand-based-ssds/

Had not seen that. Problem is, such announcements are commonly 6 to 12 months ahead of the product showing up (if they show up at all). kind of like the wild paper launches you get from Intel.

tonywob
Dec 6, 2007, 02:28 PM
*

Mr R
Dec 6, 2007, 02:28 PM
Can we get some hard statistics and numbers on the board (facts) rather than just vague statements about formula 1 cars and saloon cars.

I'm pretty sure that 3G can perform to 384kbits/sec maximum but really want to know what the theoretical maximum of EDGE is? On here ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution )it says:

EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network.

Small White Car
Dec 6, 2007, 02:29 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again now: Any Apple "ulta-portable" will surely be designed as a device that COMPLIMENTS your main system. It will NOT be made to replace it.

Think of it as an iPhone Plus (without the phone).

Given that assumption (and given that 'Back to my Mac' exists) then 32 GB is certainly big enough. Anyone who says it isn't is planning on using the device in a way Apple doesn't intend it to be used. You can do that, of course, but you can't then complain that Apple made it "wrong" if you're going to go and do something they didn't plan on. (In other words, buying this thing as your primary computer.)

The Toddfather
Dec 6, 2007, 02:29 PM
My guess is a 128 gig HD.

rainmanbk
Dec 6, 2007, 02:29 PM
YES YES YES. OH MY YES.

I will buy one the second they hit the Apple Online Store.

notjustjay
Dec 6, 2007, 02:29 PM
If they can fit a 160 gig drive into an iPod, surely they can put one in an ultraportable laptop.

lazyrighteye
Dec 6, 2007, 02:29 PM
[SIZE=1]Is 3g really worth it??I mean for me to buy another iPhone?

Nope.
But you can bet Apple will do their best to make it appear so. ;)
Maybe some sort of 'Back to the Mac' feature will require 3G or something goofy. :p

Mr R
Dec 6, 2007, 02:30 PM
I certainly have had bad experiences with 3G phones, and I can't even get EDGE, so for me a 3G iphone is great, but not something I am particularly excited about. And the way O2 have handled EDGE, I hold no confidence in them getting decent 3G support on an iPhone.

I'm with O2 at the moment, still considering the iPhone but EDGE is really springing up all over the place near me (centre Glasgow) and starting to reach the outskirts now.

QuarterSwede
Dec 6, 2007, 02:31 PM
$1500 seems kind of cheap. Dell's 12 inch laptop with solid state drive starts around $2000 (with 32gb drive.) Add $400 if you want a 64gb drive. And the thing is only a 1.2Ghz Core2 Duo. However, it does include an optical drive.
Apple has always based price on the size of the unit. Of the PowerBook line the 12" was the cheapest even though most PC manufacturers charge a premium for portability. $1500 actually sounds about right if they position it between the MB and the MBP.

evolu
Dec 6, 2007, 02:31 PM
with leopard's network ease and a relatively minor dotMAC update, you wouldn't need a lot of HD capacity - put 3G in the iphone AND the ultra-portable and you've got 'anywhere' access to all your home pc's files. then you have a 3G portable that shares headlines with the 3G iphone.

BTW - if they move the iPhone camera to the front and add ichat, i'm IN!

sam10685
Dec 6, 2007, 02:32 PM
If the ipod Touch came in more gigs... say-- 32, or more... I'd get one in a second.

rikers_mailbox
Dec 6, 2007, 02:35 PM
I fully expect the keyboard on the forthcoming "ultra-portable" will be *very* similar in appearance (if not identical) to the current bluetooth keyboard offering. Apple developed an ultra-thin yet highly usable keyboard for a reason.

By releasing it for desktops beforehand, now they can boast that even their ultra-potables have full-size keys.

That's something I'll queue up for. I refuse to replace my 12" PowerBook with anything else.

No kidding. I <3 my 12" PB.

and that's my 2-cents.

tonywob
Dec 6, 2007, 02:35 PM
*

lazyrighteye
Dec 6, 2007, 02:36 PM
Maybe we're limiting our imaginations too much. Solid state memory only... really thin & light... other rumors and patents floating around (tablets, touchpads, etc.). Sometimes the raw data of rumors are correct, but the conclusions miss the target.

Could this be something besides a laptop? A tablet pc or something new we haven't thought of yet... some sort of ipod touch / laptop hybrid?

What I keep expecting is an Phone/MacBook hybrid.
Something between the two. Hit the sweet spot.

Phatpat
Dec 6, 2007, 02:36 PM
I can hear the screams of millions of unsatisfied macrumors members already...

bdkennedy1
Dec 6, 2007, 02:37 PM
My opinion is that it's not even a laptop, but a tablet or pad like a big iPhone. It just seems too thin to have a clamshell design and the 13" PowerBook never succeeded because the screen was too small.

hidehide
Dec 6, 2007, 02:38 PM
LOL @ those who signed two year contract. Their phone is already "old" when they just passed half of their contract..
Im going to sell my unlocked iPhone n get the "new" iPhone when it releases :)

~Shard~
Dec 6, 2007, 02:38 PM
I am definitely interested to see what the specifics actually turn out to be with regards to the ultra-thin laptop, since we have heard many various claims. I'll be away for MWSF this year but can't wait to see what's in store for me once I get back! :D :cool:

John A
Dec 6, 2007, 02:40 PM
I know tons of folks who have had 12" PB's for ages who are really hoping that something smaller than a MacBook comes out soon. I guess we'll see! When do we start getting faked 'spy' photos in stairwells and elevators?

dwwd
Dec 6, 2007, 02:40 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again now: Any Apple "ulta-portable" will surely be designed as a device that COMPLIMENTS your main system. It will NOT be made to replace it.

Think of it as an iPhone Plus (without the phone).

Given that assumption (and given that 'Back to my Mac' exists) then 32 GB is certainly big enough. Anyone who says it isn't is planning on using the device in a way Apple doesn't intend it to be used. You can do that, of course, but you can't then complain that Apple made it "wrong" if you're going to go and do something they didn't plan on. (In other words, buying this thing as your primary computer.)

So it would be just like a Foleo? :apple:Foleo ?

MacsAttack
Dec 6, 2007, 02:40 PM
If they can fit a 160 gig drive into an iPod, surely they can put one in an ultraportable laptop.

Err.... That is still a physical spinny disk thing - and to fit it in they had to make the iPod Classic a "fatPod". It is much thicker than the 80GB model - go look at the Apple site.

noriyori
Dec 6, 2007, 02:40 PM
If they can fit a 160 gig drive into an iPod, surely they can put one in an ultraportable laptop.

I agree. However I the current size of laptops are fine. Maybe they can go a bit thinner, but that's a natural progression.
I would rather see a tablet. An iPhone form factor with a 4x to 5x size screen. They could still fit a 160gb drive, even if they went with smaller flash drives they could use the back to my mac technology for connecting to an iTunes library on your home computer.

I think a tablet would be more desirable for the "I don't need the full processing power of a macbook(pro) but would like more features than the iPhone on the go" folks.

Mr R
Dec 6, 2007, 02:42 PM
LOL @ those who signed two year contract. Their phone is already "old" when they just passed half of their contract..
Im going to sell my unlocked iPhone n get the "new" iPhone when it releases :)

Good for you.

In the UK its an 18 month contract... which is... oh let me think... one and a half years. ;)

VideoShooter
Dec 6, 2007, 02:42 PM
Just a side note.

I worked with Jim Goldman (the reporter of this story) for a short time at KRON's (San Jose bureau) - the NBC affiliate several years ago.

Jim is a very bright reporter with excellent contacts and is dedicated to the integrity of his news. If he's reporting it. I believe he has a solid source that has convinced him of this news.

I'm not claiming the news story is accurate - but to make such a report Jim had some very good evidence to report it.

notjustjay
Dec 6, 2007, 02:42 PM
Err.... That is still a physical spinny disk thing - and to fit it in they had to make the iPod Classic a "fatPod". It is much thicker than the 80GB model - go look at the Apple site.

Granted, the iPod's a little fat, but the drive would be plenty small enough for an ultraportable laptop.

The real question would be of speed and durability, I don't imagine those 1.8" drives are built for heavy duty use.

iriejedi
Dec 6, 2007, 02:42 PM
Well, this rumor is perfectly timed. My Verizon contract is up in June!

Hello new iPHONE!

MacsAttack
Dec 6, 2007, 02:42 PM
I can hear the screams of millions of unsatisfied macrumors members already...

You always get that.

It could be the greatest device ever created - able to cure cancer and fill in your tax returns at the same time - and there would still be whiners because it lacked the vital can-opener feature.

gkarris
Dec 6, 2007, 02:43 PM
Apple was first to get rid of the floppy.

Now they're getting rid of the optical (about time, my 12" Thinkpad X31 doesn't have one nor do I miss it - you can get a portable external anyways).

Might as well get rid of the Hard Disk. Tons of stuff? You can get a mobile external of that too...

Nice job Apple, bad news for my bank account...

phytonix
Dec 6, 2007, 02:43 PM
Great if they do.
However I will stick to my 12" PB 1.5Ghz for another 2 years, if it does not fail.

Mr R
Dec 6, 2007, 02:43 PM
The last time I got 3G, I ran a bandwidth test and got 1.5Mbps, this is with T-Mobile. When I get EDGE,I get around 200 kbit/s.

Thats useful to know... thanks. As I said I am seeing a lot more EDGE coverage where I am located and it can only improve over time.

Schtumple
Dec 6, 2007, 02:44 PM
Surely, rather than using SSD, wouldn't it make more sense (and be alot cheaper) to use a iPod sized hard drive, or one slightly bigger, just something that spun at 4,200 pm so you'd still get some kind of relatively normal performance?

OdduWon
Dec 6, 2007, 02:46 PM
Sounds like a neat device, but if it's going to be:

- 12" Mac
- half the thickness of MacBook
- half the weight of MacBook
- no hard drive
- 8 or 16 Gig flash storage
- $400-500 more than current MacBook

... then I'm afraid to say I'll take the MacBook. And I'd bet this machine will quickly go the way of the G4 Cube.

Now if it was $400 *less* than the cheapest MacBook, I might buy one.
If it is a MBP, then it will have at least a 128 MB Graphics Card, this would sway my choice towards the MBP. Also a 64 GB solid state is plenty for a ultra mobile computer, heck 32 GB is almost enough, for my iTunes Music library that is.

tonywob
Dec 6, 2007, 02:46 PM
*

lordgaino
Dec 6, 2007, 02:46 PM
"Thats true but EDGE is outdated technology. How many people you see now a days with 8 track tapes?"

You are all missing the point. We dont need to look at statistics and firm data. Compare new technology to old technology. The experience in the real world tells us everything we need to know.

EDGE provides a satisfactory solution to the real world need to surf the web on the move. It doesnt matter that it isnt the latest technology out there. I need to pull up a webpage while standing in the queue for the bus, or waiting for my sandwich to be made in subway... edge does this efficiently and quickly. If i want to download a movie i do it at home on my 10meg broadband connection, or at work on the wireless network. Not on my iphone.

The internal combustion engine is a technology patented in 1823, but it still powers 99% of the cars on the planet. there are a myriad of more up to date technologies available.... but their range is less, their cost is higher and the pros/cons dont add up like they do for good old petrol. This is much the same argument.

I dont need to always have the latest technology to do what i need to do...and i bet that a 3g iphone will cost more, be heavier, bigger, be more expensive per month and certainly wont go straight through over 48 hours of internet, telephone calls and music before needing to be charged back up.

jragosta
Dec 6, 2007, 02:47 PM
No HD and with a price of only $1500 means 32GB or smaller SSD. Seems a lot like a glorified ipod touch at that point...

I disagree. For a lot of business users, 32 GB is plenty. I need to have Office and a bunch of Office files. Add 5 GB for a slimmed down OS and that's plenty of room. (of course, more would be better, but lots of people don't need 100 GB+.

Surely, rather than using SSD, wouldn't it make more sense (and be alot cheaper) to use a iPod sized hard drive, or one slightly bigger, just something that spun at 4,200 pm so you'd still get some kind of relatively normal performance?

What are you talking about? The performance would be SLOWER with a hard drive - especially at 4200 rpm. Not to mention the battery life.

gkarris
Dec 6, 2007, 02:47 PM
If it is a MBP, then it will have at least a 128 MB Graphics Card, this would sway my choice towards the MBP. Also a 64 GB solid state is plenty for a ultra mobile computer, heck 32 GB is almost enough, for my iTunes Music library that is.

Yep, my older Thinkpad X31 has only a 20 Gig hard disk...

OMG - if you have an iPod, you can use that as an external drive!!!

zioxide
Dec 6, 2007, 02:48 PM
Surely, rather than using SSD, wouldn't it make more sense (and be alot cheaper) to use a iPod sized hard drive, or one slightly bigger, just something that spun at 4,200 pm so you'd still get some kind of relatively normal performance?

Those iPod drives are WAAAY too slow and delicate to be used as a regular disk. They'd burn out in no time.

It's an ultra portable. They're going to use an SSD, and it's going to be 32-64GB. These machines are designed to compliment a main machine (desktop, big laptop) and be used for portable **** (class, traveling, meetings, etc), not to keep all your music and stuff on.

bagelche
Dec 6, 2007, 02:48 PM
Some nice points above.

I doubt this will be a primary machine, but as someone who moved from a 12" 4lb. PC notebook to a 15"MBP, I certainly notice the weight/size difference in my travels. If I had the $, I'd love to get a nice small notebook for less power-needing work (meetings, plane travel, etc.). I can see how Back To My Mac would fit in very nicely with a unit like this.

Foleo is an interesting comparison, but it was just an unfortunate machine at an unfortunate time. With stronger tech and better integration into a server-connection system (BTMYM) this could be a real winner along with whatever else Apple has up their sleeve to throw in it.

I am also inclined to see a small (1.8") HDD in there, though I too agree it'll have some flash mem for OS and the like.

I do have one size question. How thin could it really get? I'm looking at my MBP and thinking 1/2 that height doesn't leave much room for USB ports which seem unavoidably essential at this point in time.

Definitely exciting any way you cut it.

Peace
Dec 6, 2007, 02:49 PM
If it is a MBP, then it will have at least a 128 MB Graphics Card, this would sway my choice towards the MBP. Also a 64 GB solid state is plenty for a ultra mobile computer, heck 32 GB is almost enough, for my iTunes Music library that is.


Wow.My iTunes library is over 100GB.

But..

This is a new multi-touch UMPC.Thats why its 12" and 50% thinner.

davidlt
Dec 6, 2007, 02:50 PM
Let's see if the price is really going to be 1500$. It would be be too big for that kind of laptop. Asus EEE PC 701 or even 1001 which should come out next year versus what Apple could be releasing after a month and more. Hm... Asus wins for now (quality = ~price)

tonywob
Dec 6, 2007, 02:50 PM
*

Mr R
Dec 6, 2007, 02:50 PM
No, it's not old, 3G support isn't that great. Doesn't bother me anyway, I spoke to O2 when I signed up and they said that if a newer model comes out, you could just go and buy it from an Apple store and have it activated on to your contract, cancelling the older phone. O2 would be mad not to allow this, even a worst case scenario is your contract starting again. Personally, I wouldn't bother at all if all the upgrade had was 3G, I would certainly upgrade if it came with more storage.

You are starting to sway me into the positive for buying one - thanks! :)

smt1192
Dec 6, 2007, 02:52 PM
So this means we aren't expecting a larger iPod touch model soon? :confused::mad:

FelixDerKater
Dec 6, 2007, 02:53 PM
This new laptop sounds like a neat idea from Apple. I'd be a bit concerned to transition to flash-based storage on my main machine, as I don't feel it is ready for such an application. Still, for a laptop, it will likely bring some excellent run-times on battery power. I'm also imagining one of the quietest laptop experiences ever, so long as it has a quiet keyboard and doesn't need to rely on fans often.

Feverish Flux
Dec 6, 2007, 02:53 PM
I don't personally think there will be solid-state memory in this laptop. It's too new and it's too expensive. But I could always be wrong.

As far as thin enough for I/O ports:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/page/1490full.jpg

erandall38
Dec 6, 2007, 02:53 PM
one way or another, its all sorting out... :D

if this rumour has even a tiny part of true, Im in for that ultra portable 12" Nanobook Pro

Are you kidding? No official representative of Apple has come out and said this will come out.

If this rumor has even a tiny part of true it is for the 3G iPhone, because a representative from AT&T (CEO) has came out and said it was coming.

Do I think there will be a ultra portable at MWSF? Yes!

But the 3G iPhone is the only thing officially announced from a representative of a company that actually takes part in selling the item.

zioxide
Dec 6, 2007, 02:53 PM
Specs I'm hoping for:

12'' Widescreen 1280x800 LCD w/ LED BLU
Intel Core 2 Duo Low Voltage
2GB Ram
128MB Nvidia 8400M
32-64GB SSD

A regular laptop. Not a tablet.
No multi-touch, it would be completely useless.

Adokimus
Dec 6, 2007, 02:54 PM
$1500 seems kind of cheap. Dell's 12 inch laptop with solid state drive starts around $2000 (with 32gb drive.) Add $400 if you want a 64gb drive. And the thing is only a 1.2Ghz Core2 Duo. However, it does include an optical drive.

It's actually down to $1629 at the moment, with a CDRW/DVD drive. But, I also think the rumored "macbook nano" price estimate is a little low.

-Ado

tonywob
Dec 6, 2007, 02:56 PM
*

OdduWon
Dec 6, 2007, 02:56 PM
Apple was first to get rid of the floppy.

Now they're getting rid of the optical (about time, my 12" Thinkpad X31 doesn't have one nor do I miss it - you can get a portable external anyways).

Might as well get rid of the Hard Disk. Tons of stuff? You can get a mobile external of that too...

Nice job Apple, bad news for my bank account...

True, the age of the disc is passing. The current Disc format wars are one sign of things to come especially if you believe this Michael Bay thing (http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/04/michael-bays-format-war-conspiracy-theory-its-a-microsoft-fi/). The absence of the Hard drive not only provides for less power consumption, but will provide the Ultra Mobile with a Ipod Mini/Nano like durability, In the same way a iPod Nano is more reliable that an iPod Classic, due to reduction of internal moving parts.

Also, I heard today that IBM is developing "nano optical processors". this could be the future of mobile "super computing", sad to see that the most promising designer of mobile computer related products has moved away from the company that is trying to break the monotony of the Intel years.

Goldcard
Dec 6, 2007, 02:57 PM
I think an ultra portable laptop with a 32GB Flash Drive is totally plausible. I think it would be a brilliant idea for apple to develop a tiny laptop with ipod like capabilities that allowed you to sync it up to your computer much like you would the iphone or ipod to itunes. But now, you would be able to sync up documents and etc. as well. Much like a glorified smart phone but with a keyboard and the whole laptop works. This would be a great companion to a larger computer that is home or work based that does not need to travel. (ie. you have your 24" Mac at home but for school/work you have your Portable Mac for transfering files and working on the go). Brilliance, too bad I'm a broke college student or I'd patent that **** and start production. Also, Steve probably beat me to this idea anyway!

it's intriguing and something that I would be very interested in.

Tony

nostaws
Dec 6, 2007, 02:57 PM
I agree with previous posters that Apple won't release a < 32 gb machine. They really need to have AT LEAST 80 gb.

About flash memory: doesn't it have a finite ability to write and rewrite? How reliable is flash memory long term for heavy usage? Right now flash drives are generally used in devices that act more like "storage." I literally have computers with harddrives that have been going strong for 10+ years, and while ocassionally they fail, I think they might be more reliable than flash drives.

steve31
Dec 6, 2007, 02:58 PM
Damn:eek: I just picked up a new Macbook sr 2.2 but I am going to sell my MBP 2.4 so I might look at buying it. I found the MBP to be to big for what I needed but a 12 inch would be perfect. I hope for a LED screen. APPLE STOP IT WITH ALL THESE COOL "MUST HAVE" PRODUCTS!!!!LOL

Adokimus
Dec 6, 2007, 02:59 PM
Specs I'm hoping for:

12'' Widescreen 1280x800 LCD w/ LED BLU
Intel Core 2 Duo Low Voltage
2GB Ram
128MB Nvidia 8400M
32-64GB SSD

A regular laptop. Not a tablet.
No multi-touch, it would be completely useless.

Assuming the rumors are true, I think you can expect almost what you are hoping for, but:

13.3" Widescreen 1280x800 LED (sorry, I don't believe the 12"... yet)
Intel Core 2 Duo Low Voltage (probably 1.2 Ghz)
1 GB RAM, upgradable to 2 GB
Integrated Graphics (if it's as thin as rumored)
32 GB SSD, upgradable to 64 GB

I don't expect to see multi-touch yet, but I would by late 2009.

These are just poor guesses based on the market. I expect to be way off.

-Ado

GQB
Dec 6, 2007, 02:59 PM
No hd and (presumably) no optical means a 100% solid state laptop. Has any company done this before?

If not, then all the more reason for Apple to do it!

MarlboroLite
Dec 6, 2007, 03:00 PM
So what were these 13.3" LED screens reported yesterday to have been bought by Apple? Are they coming out yet another "refresh" of the Macbook with just LED added in?

If this 12" Macbook Nano comes out...perhaps it's possible a 13" MBP could come out as well? I don't want a subnotebook with little power and 32GB hard drive...but I could go for a Macbook sized MBP...

Spades
Dec 6, 2007, 03:02 PM
For those with iTunes libraries over 32GB the answer is simple. You'll be able to sync songs through iTunes as if this laptop was another iPod. Hopefully they'll add in iPhoto syncing with other computers too. That's long overdue...

mashinhead
Dec 6, 2007, 03:04 PM
There's a TON of pent-up demand for an Intel-based 12-inch Mac portable. Ever since the transition away from PowerPC, people have been waiting for a smaller MacBook or MacBook Pro. These things will sell like crazy.

Sounds great but how mooch memory could it possibly have using flash only? That's really my only concern. And how you install software without an optical drive.

hidehide
Dec 6, 2007, 03:04 PM
No, it's not old, 3G support isn't that great. Doesn't bother me anyway, I spoke to O2 when I signed up and they said that if a newer model comes out, you could just go and buy it from an Apple store and have it activated on to your contract, cancelling the older phone. O2 would be mad not to allow this, even a worst case scenario is your contract starting again. Personally, I wouldn't bother at all if all the upgrade had was 3G, I would certainly upgrade if it came with more storage.
Um.. Thats better than what I thought, but can you upgrade the plan too? Or stuck at edge?
Seriously, who will like to use a slower one when there is a faster one? N who will like to be jailed when you can be free?

But for sure there will be improvement in the newer one, probabily larger capacity n better look.. I don't think they will update just to 3g...

Man, I'm using edge now, it takes so long to load this page!!

Does the plan adjust with the change of plan price? Or you are stuck with the original price? If so, another bad point for signing contract

bigjohn
Dec 6, 2007, 03:04 PM
Already I sorta want to wait for the 64GB version...

Padraig
Dec 6, 2007, 03:05 PM
I agree with previous posters that Apple won't release a < 32 gb machine. They really need to have AT LEAST 80 gb.

About flash memory: doesn't it have a finite ability to write and rewrite? How reliable is flash memory long term for heavy usage? Right now flash drives are generally used in devices that act more like "storage." I literally have computers with harddrives that have been going strong for 10+ years, and while ocassionally they fail, I think they might be more reliable than flash drives.

32gb is fine for the business market, which this no doubt will be tailored to. The assumption is that if you're buying one of these, you'll also a have main computer which can hold your itunes collection etc.

zioxide
Dec 6, 2007, 03:06 PM
I agree with previous posters that Apple won't release a < 32 gb machine. They really need to have AT LEAST 80 gb.

About flash memory: doesn't it have a finite ability to write and rewrite? How reliable is flash memory long term for heavy usage? Right now flash drives are generally used in devices that act more like "storage." I literally have computers with harddrives that have been going strong for 10+ years, and while ocassionally they fail, I think they might be more reliable than flash drives.

Why can't they release a 32GB machine? It's an ultraportable. It's designed to be used to compliment a main machine when portability is really necessary. You don't need to keep your entire porn (or music, movies, photos, etc :p) collection on it. 32GB is a perfect size:

10GB for the OS
5GB for Apps
~15GB for files, small amount of music & video for on the go.

If you really need more storage on the go, get a WD Passport (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=364) or similar. They go up to 320GB now.


Also, flash drives do have an infinite number of writes but it's something like 10 years worth under normal use. And they're far more reliable than hard drives, especially in laptops. No moving parts to get damaged.

sblasl
Dec 6, 2007, 03:06 PM
Yawn, again.:(

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/thisweekineducation/upload/2007/07/happy_47th_anniversary_etch-a-/etch_a_sketch.jpg

bigjohn
Dec 6, 2007, 03:06 PM
True, the age of the disc is passing. The current Disc format wars are one sign of things to come especially if you believe this

Begin the disc war has

Djspice
Dec 6, 2007, 03:07 PM
No multi-touch, it would be completely useless.

Why? Imagine a 12" Iphone screen where you wouldn't even need a keyboard. All of your input would be multi-touch. This sounds great to me. I don't even have an Iphone or a Touch yet and I think this could "revolutionize" the way we interact with computers.

Ever since I first played with one (an Iphone), I thought that this would make an incredible form-factor for an ultra-portable. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that this could be another "ground-breaking" product for Apple.

Again, I too, think that this would not be a replacement for a main system but be a way to portable-ize everything you do on your home or office system. Granted, this may not be what they are actually releasing so I could be getting all excited for nothing! :o

amac4me
Dec 6, 2007, 03:08 PM
I think it will have at a minimum 64GB, not 32. Perhaps the option to upgrade it beyond that. MacWorld can't get here fast enough :rolleyes:

GQB
Dec 6, 2007, 03:08 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again now: Any Apple "ulta-portable" will surely be designed as a device that COMPLIMENTS your main system. It will NOT be made to replace it.


You know, now that I think about this, I may be more interested than I first thought.
We already have 2 Macs, 20" , dual login, white iMac that my wife and I share, and our older CRT iMac on our daughter's desk. We're considering a 3rd mac for downstairs, but that just seems so bloody ostentatious and wasteful on countless levels.
But a slim, solid-state, 'satellite' mac that could also be picked up and carried on trips, but could be 80% 'off' (assuming instant flash start-up) would be REALLY nice. This could be fun!

wronski
Dec 6, 2007, 03:09 PM
Couldn't they just couple multiple flash units together?

zioxide
Dec 6, 2007, 03:09 PM
Why? Imagine a 12" Iphone screen where you wouldn't even need a keyboard. All of your input would be multi-touch. This sounds great to me. I don't even have an Iphone or a Touch yet and I think this could "revolutionize" the way we interact with computers.

Ever since I first played with one (an Iphone), I thought that this would make an incredible form-factor for an ultra-portable. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that this could be another "ground-breaking" product for Apple.

Again, I too, think that this would not be a replacement for a main system but be a way to portable-ize everything you do on your home or office system. Granted, this may not be what they are actually releasing so I could be getting all excited for nothing! :o

It would be nothing more than a gimmick. You can't type for **** on it because there would be no tactile feedback. That completely eliminates 90% of the market: students who want it for class (me), businesses, people who want a small laptop to travel on a plane. It just leaves the gimmick market for people who want something that looks cool.

OdduWon
Dec 6, 2007, 03:09 PM
For those with iTunes libraries over 32GB the answer is simple. You'll be able to sync songs through iTunes as if this laptop was another iPod. Hopefully they'll add in iPhoto syncing with other computers too. That's long overdue...

An extra 10GB of .MAC Syncing could be helpful too ;)
Or perhaps a system where you can input your iTMS identity and retrieve all the songs you have in your base library by simply downloading from the iTMS. Like a host for you collection, centralized at the store.

tonywob
Dec 6, 2007, 03:10 PM
*

Cinch
Dec 6, 2007, 03:10 PM
For those with iTunes libraries over 32GB the answer is simple. You'll be able to sync songs through iTunes as if this laptop was another iPod. Hopefully they'll add in iPhoto syncing with other computers too. That's long overdue...

Now we need two computers to manage iTunes? How about a wireless harddrive that serve both as backup and storing your music?

Personally, I would love to run a laptop for the entire day without the need to plug in.

Jaymes
Dec 6, 2007, 03:13 PM
I'd personally pay a premium if the $1500 base model was only 32 or 64 GB SSD to get to 128GB. Depending on the machine specs, I'd likely go up to $2000 for a 128GB SSD model. For me, the nearly instant-on boot speed would be worth the extra cash for an ultra-portable.

cloudnine
Dec 6, 2007, 03:13 PM
Sounds great but how mooch memory could it possibly have using flash only? That's really my only concern. And how you install software without an optical drive.

I'm glad you mentioned that... with the fear of sounding naive, I really have a hard time believing that Apple would get rid of the optical drive and start selling their software, what, on flash drives? That just seems ludicrous to me. Either that or they'll start selling their software as download-only? Looking at Apple's product history, I highly doubt that they would sell a laptop with an external optical drive in the box...

I dunno, in theory it sounds great... no optical drive and an SSD HD to dramatically decrease size, but I have a hard time believing it. :confused:

BWhaler
Dec 6, 2007, 03:15 PM
This is totally fabricated and fantasy.

You lost me at $1,500. Add in the specs, and it's fantasy land.

1. Not one company in the marketplace can meet this price point.

2. Even if Apple could match that price, it's not going to happen.

I could go on and on, but this is just stupidity.

cloudnine
Dec 6, 2007, 03:16 PM
I think it will have at a minimum 64GB, not 32. Perhaps the option to upgrade it beyond that. MacWorld can't get here fast enough :rolleyes:

I agree... *if* they do SSD, I definitely think that they would go with 64GB as a bare minimum... but I wouldn't be surprised if it was 128GB, upgradeable to something more...

zioxide
Dec 6, 2007, 03:21 PM
This is totally fabricated and fantasy.

You lost me at $1,500. Add in the specs, and it's fantasy land.

1. Not one company in the marketplace can meet this price point.

2. Even if Apple could match that price, it's not going to happen.

I could go on and on, but this is just stupidity.

Dell Latitude 430 is $1600. Same exact computer as what this will probably be. It also uses an external optical drive.

OdduWon
Dec 6, 2007, 03:21 PM
I'd personally pay a premium if the $1500 base model was only 32 or 64 GB SSD to get to 128GB. Depending on the machine specs, I'd likely go up to $2000 for a 128GB SSD model. For me, the nearly instant-on boot speed would be worth the extra cash for an ultra-portable.
Lets hope the "instant On-ness" of the all Flash Mac will translate to the MB/MBP lines.
I really have a hard time believing that Apple would get rid of the optical drive and start selling their software, what, on flash drives? That just seems ludicrous to me. Either that or they'll start selling their software as download-only? Looking at Apple's product history, I highly doubt that they would sell a laptop with an external optical drive in the box...
What happened to the iTunes disc that came with my iPod? They haven't done that since the iPod color. And what is wrong with a flash drive as a software ROM? Discs take space to ship, this is why apple will do away with them. The new iPods are a tool to test for implication of this non disc distribution system. This is evident because apple makes more money if they can ship more units in a smaller package, as was addressed with the 5.5 and later models of ipod packaging.

Nicolasdec
Dec 6, 2007, 03:22 PM
I would so pissed off if apple did come out with iphone 2 in june, I just got my iphone.

Djspice
Dec 6, 2007, 03:22 PM
It would be nothing more than a gimmick. You can't type for **** on it because there would be no tactile feedback. That completely eliminates 90% of the market: students who want it for class (me), businesses, people who want a small laptop to travel on a plane. It just leaves the gimmick market for people who want something that looks cool.

I think it would have the exact opposite appeal. I travel with my stupid Acer laptop on the plane all the time. I find it too big and cumbersome as well as awkward to use with the flip up screen. (Not to mention all the Windows problems I've had with it, but that's another story) If they came out with a design like a tablet that had a cover that folded underneath and you could just work on the surface of it...I'm sold.

And while I do agree with you in that typing would at first be awkward, we adapt, man. I'm sure we would get used to it.

Finally, alot of folks said that the Iphone was gimmicky, too. 'Nuff said.

thesdx
Dec 6, 2007, 03:23 PM
I'm buying this ultra-portable the minute it comes out! It sounds just like what I want. I'll be calling in sick for school on January 15!

cloudnine
Dec 6, 2007, 03:24 PM
Lets hope the "instant On-ness" of the all Flash Mac will translate to the MB/MBP lines.

What happened to the iTunes disc that came with my iPod? They haven't done that since the iPod color. And what is wrong with a flash drive as a software ROM? Discs take space to ship, this is why apple will do away with them. The new iPods are a tool to test for implication of this non disc distribution system. This is evident because apple makes more money if they can ship more units in a smaller package, as was addressed with the 5.5 and later models of ipod packaging.

Well, stupid question... I should probably know the answer to this, but... can you write-protect a flash drive? I mean, obviously the main concern about having a flash drive given for software is the fear of writing over the install files. I guess that's the only real concern :/

Bubbasteve
Dec 6, 2007, 03:24 PM
Considering I have an iMac, I'm not too worried about capacity size of my future ultra portable investment...

If I really wanted to carry my whole iTunes library with me I would bring my iPod with me and just play my music through the iPod itself or through the computer from the iPod

With that being said I'm thinking there will only be a 64GB version which will be plenty good for a bunch of music and a collection of photos

tonywob
Dec 6, 2007, 03:26 PM
*

smt1192
Dec 6, 2007, 03:26 PM
So I assume this means that there will be no upgrade in size for the iPod Touch for a while?

shimmer11
Dec 6, 2007, 03:26 PM
I'm buying this ultra-portable the minute it comes out! It sounds just like what I want. I'll be calling in sick for school on January 14!

Call in sick on the 14th, the keynote is on the 15th! Ha!:D

thesdx
Dec 6, 2007, 03:29 PM
Call in sick on the 14th, the keynote is on the 15th! Ha!:D

Stupid me. :rolleyes: I knew it was the 15th!

ibn.
Dec 6, 2007, 03:29 PM
$1500? are you kidding me? do people not realize the prices of SSD drives in the market?

if this "super laptop" does have one, it'll be 16GB or less. and honestly, that's just pointless.

ZachPruckowski
Dec 6, 2007, 03:29 PM
Why? Imagine a 12" Iphone screen where you wouldn't even need a keyboard. All of your input would be multi-touch. This sounds great to me. I don't even have an Iphone or a Touch yet and I think this could "revolutionize" the way we interact with computers.

Ever since I first played with one (an Iphone), I thought that this would make an incredible form-factor for an ultra-portable. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that this could be another "ground-breaking" product for Apple.

Again, I too, think that this would not be a replacement for a main system but be a way to portable-ize everything you do on your home or office system. Granted, this may not be what they are actually releasing so I could be getting all excited for nothing! :o

The problem I see with multi-touch is that this wouldn't be able to run traditional Carbon/Cocoa apps, because those apps aren't really built for a multi-touch interface. So while you could run iChat and Mail and Safari, you couldn't run Office or whatever without switching back to a conventional GUI.

A laptop which doesn't run "normal" programs is not a computer. It's a CE device. What Apple would need is a way to switch between GUIs, from an iPhone-esque GUI to a regular one. I don't really see this as feasible

A multi-touch laptop would become more feasible when the iPhone SDK is out. Apple could provide utilities to port Mac apps to a touch GUI. In theory, they could enable you to be able to easily design a Touch/ARM version for the iPhone, a Touch/x86 version for the tablet/Nano, and a OS X/x86 version for the "regular" Macs.

zioxide
Dec 6, 2007, 03:30 PM
$1500? are you kidding me? do people not realize the prices of SSD drives in the market?

if this "super laptop" does have one, it'll be 16GB or less. and honestly, that's just pointless.

The Dell D430 has a 32GB SSD and it costs $1600. It has the option to upgrade to 64GB for an additionally $399.

mdriftmeyer
Dec 6, 2007, 03:32 PM
Another niche product. Fantastic!

Buran
Dec 6, 2007, 03:33 PM
If the ipod Touch came in more gigs... say-- 32, or more... I'd get one in a second.

If the Nano came in 12+ GB, I'd have bought one of the new ones. I'm maxing out my 8GB Nano and need a bit more space. Not a lot, but 12-16G would be perfect. The Touch doesn't work for me since I need to be able to change the playing song without having to look at the screen. They're putting 16GB of flash in the Touch -- why not in the Nano?

A new iPhone middle of next year would be perfect for me since I imagine they'll increase the capacity at the same time as they introduce more features. (I know you still have to look at the screen to control it, unless the remote can do that -- can it? but for the iPhone, I'll cope. Or just buy an extra Nano).

And I got my AT&T Tilt at the business-discount price so I can actually sell it for more than what I paid for it. (great phone, but WM is WM and it's got design headaches).

mdriftmeyer
Dec 6, 2007, 03:33 PM
The Dell D430 has a 32GB SSD and it costs $1600. It has the option to upgrade to 64GB for an additionally $399.

DELL is taking a bath on that price point as well. Their margins are very lean.

hidehide
Dec 6, 2007, 03:35 PM
tonywob, you got iPhone, iPod touch n TWO mbp, I envy you!
as far as the iPhone update length, I think its typical.. Every cellphone company made new model every year.. And iPhone isnt priced high now, so I think its reasonable.

Virgil-TB2
Dec 6, 2007, 03:37 PM
Some nice points above.

I doubt this will be a primary machine, but as someone who moved from a 12" 4lb. PC notebook to a 15"MBP, I certainly notice the weight/size difference in my travels. If I had the $, I'd love to get a nice small notebook for less power-needing work (meetings, plane travel, etc.). I can see how Back To My Mac would fit in very nicely with a unit like this.

Foleo is an interesting comparison, but it was just an unfortunate machine at an unfortunate time. With stronger tech and better integration into a server-connection system (BTMYM) this could be a real winner along with whatever else Apple has up their sleeve to throw in it.
...Finally!
Someone with some sense. :)

The whole point of an ultra-portable like this is that it *won't* be your only/primary machine. All those people above talking about adding HD's and modems and whatnot would turn this into a chubby version of the 12" Powerbook.

I'm excited. :D This is beginning to look a lot like a machine I have been wanting ever since my 12" Powerbook was made obsolete by the move to intel.

The only way this could screw up now is if AppleInsider is right and they actually use a 13.3 inch screen.

Anyone else but me notice how AppleInsider claims they reported on this thing first when in fact Mac OS Rumours beat them to it a long time ago?

Lepton
Dec 6, 2007, 03:39 PM
Hey! You all laughed last year but I got the iPhone mostly right. So.. If the thing is so thin and no hard drive then it's a tablet, not a laptop. Bank this:

Tablet. 8.5 by 11" or less, 12" diag glass screen, 720p HD screen or better, thick as an iPhone. No keyboard, no optical. 32GB flash, 8 memory card slots so you can add a ton of RAM yourself. Power over Ethernet, WiFi, Bluetooth, USB, no FireWire no Express Card. Multi-Touch for fingers, stylus for Ink. Leopard. MagSafe.

GQB
Dec 6, 2007, 03:40 PM
Yawn, again.:(

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/thisweekineducation/upload/2007/07/happy_47th_anniversary_etch-a-/etch_a_sketch.jpg

http://www.startupgallery.org/gallery/story.php?ii=64
click 'page 3' link...

"One critic called the Mac the world’s most expensive Etch A Sketch"

Wrong then, wrong now.

(Although the Amazon Kindle actually is exactly that, albeit a very high tech version.)

DukeofAnkh
Dec 6, 2007, 03:40 PM
Well, stupid question... I should probably know the answer to this, but... can you write-protect a flash drive? I mean, obviously the main concern about having a flash drive given for software is the fear of writing over the install files. I guess that's the only real concern :/

You can. My very first flash drive about 5 years ago had a little switch on the side to go between normal and write-protected (much like floppy disks did). None of my newer ones have this but given that it used to exist, it must be possible. I don't imagine it would be that hard to manufacture read-only drives.

MacTheSpoon
Dec 6, 2007, 03:41 PM
If this thing comes out at $1500, I'll be stunned. I was expecting more around $2500.

I still miss my 12" PB, my 15" MBP is great but never has occupied the same place in my heart. This ultraportable is something I've wanted for a long time, I'll definitely be pulling the trigger on a purchase.

As for the 3G iPhone, I'll definitely be getting one of those puppies, too.

Virgil-TB2
Dec 6, 2007, 03:42 PM
I'm glad you mentioned that... with the fear of sounding naive, I really have a hard time believing that Apple would get rid of the optical drive and start selling their software, what, on flash drives? That just seems ludicrous to me. Either that or they'll start selling their software as download-only? Looking at Apple's product history, I highly doubt that they would sell a laptop with an external optical drive in the box...

I dunno, in theory it sounds great... no optical drive and an SSD HD to dramatically decrease size, but I have a hard time believing it. :confused:Possible answers:

- What if it works like an iPhone and you can install software on it by tethering it to your main computer?

- What if you use an external CD drive?

- What if it comes bundled with iWork thus making it unlikely you would ever need to install software?

I mean other than bloatware like Office and Adobe junk everything else can be downloaded anyway already. This might not be for everyone, but it's the way of the future if you ask me.

grappler
Dec 6, 2007, 03:42 PM
I just want to know, will it drive the big 30" display?

If so, that would make it the ideal personal computer, usable as a big, spacious desktop at home, and as an ultraportable away from home.

That's what I have right now with my 17" MBP, but it'd be sweet if this new one could do that.

RinoFlush
Dec 6, 2007, 03:44 PM
Version number 3 is coming? Wow, the first Version of the Iphone hasnt come out yet in my country (the netherlands).

When Steve.... :confused:

Dont make me wait no longer man.:eek:

timschizzle
Dec 6, 2007, 03:45 PM
What if it was a multi-touch tablet, but you could get a stand to prop it up so to speak, and use your bluetooth keyboard and mouse on it as well, so that when you had the two wirelessly connected, the touch keyboard would not come up on the screen when you wanted to type, and a cursor would pop up. On top of that you could use the touch screens many other gestures at the same time. I think that would be cool. Then, when you take it with you, or just want to use the touch, the cursor would disappear and the touch keyboard would show up again when needed.

on a realated note, touch screen controls would be nice for photoshop.... maybe a clamshell with a touch screen!

mopar003
Dec 6, 2007, 03:47 PM
I would have to agree with you on that....it can't be any bigger than 32GB.....I guess it would be alright if you didn't work with many pictures or video...you for sure would have to have a small external HD to carry around....by the time you carry another HD and Optical drive around isn't that more of a problem then just having a 15 inch MBP??

You could always use a new iPod Classic 160 GB for extra storage. Small storage device with the benefit of still being an iPod for music, video, etc.

Adokimus
Dec 6, 2007, 03:48 PM
I just want to know, will it drive the big 30" display?


If it's 1/2 an inch, no it won't.

Virgil-TB2
Dec 6, 2007, 03:48 PM
Apple won't release a 32gb laptop, I imagine they have something up their sleeve to make it worth our while. Hell, many people have iTunes libraries larger than that.A device like this is not intended to carry everything you own on it though, that's the whole point. I would expect this might be a "managed" portable, just like an iPod or iPhone.

Also, judging by iPod sales,...

... most people's iTunes library (that they want to carry with them anyway), is between 4 and 8 Gigs. ;)

ZachPruckowski
Dec 6, 2007, 03:48 PM
$1500? are you kidding me? do people not realize the prices of SSD drives in the market?

if this "super laptop" does have one, it'll be 16GB or less. and honestly, that's just pointless.

At $10/GB, a 32 GB one is narrowly affordable in a $1500 laptop. Note that Apple gets further flash discounts because they buy like half the world's flash supply or something ridiculous.

rockthecasbah
Dec 6, 2007, 03:48 PM
Excellent news! I'll be in the market for a laptop this spring so I cannot wait for an ultra portable to tote around on the college campus. I need 64GB minimum though (35.6GB iTunes Library) or it won't work... I'll likely be disappointed in the capacity range and have to opt for a Hard Drive based notebook but you never know :)

Popeye206
Dec 6, 2007, 03:48 PM
I disagree. For a lot of business users, 32 GB is plenty. I need to have Office and a bunch of Office files. Add 5 GB for a slimmed down OS and that's plenty of room. (of course, more would be better, but lots of people don't need 100 GB+.

Right on JR! I think too many people get focused on disk space. I'm in the software industry and have a decent collection of software on my MacBook Pro (including Office, iLife, Adobe Design Suite and more) and I've only used 25gbs of disk space on this Mac so far. Now I have only had this Mac for about 5 months, but still, that's a lot of stuff in about 25 gigs... I think 30-40 gigs would be perfect for the business user who wants portability and function.

Come February I think my bank account is in trouble again! ;-)

Mydel
Dec 6, 2007, 03:50 PM
I dont believe in 1500$ price point. At least not with decent amount of disk space. I think its gonna be upgradable to reasonable 64GB but than price will jump to 2500+

tonywob
Dec 6, 2007, 03:50 PM
*

Thataboy
Dec 6, 2007, 03:51 PM
With Back to My Mac, the size of the portable's "hard drive" becomes largely irrelevant. Well, unless you don't have .mac :)

This "super-laptop" sounds just right. However, at $1500, it is going to need a big extra feature to get over the mental hurdle of spending hundreds more for less hard drive, less an optical drive, etc. compared to a Macbook. To me, that means touch screen. But who knows!

Manatee
Dec 6, 2007, 03:54 PM
My new MacBook Slim still sounds pretty appealing, but it costs about half what I was expecting to pay for it. I wonder what they're leaving out? I hope it's not coming with a meager 32GB SSD, unless there's also a 64GB option. And it doesn't need a monster video card like the MacBook Pro, I guess. I just hope it's solid, elegant, and brilliant.

mdriftmeyer
Dec 6, 2007, 03:54 PM
Release new Monitors with 250 PPI, please.

Virgil-TB2
Dec 6, 2007, 03:56 PM
I fully expect the keyboard on the forthcoming "ultra-portable" will be *very* similar in appearance (if not identical) to the current bluetooth keyboard offering. Apple developed an ultra-thin yet highly usable keyboard for a reason.

By releasing it for desktops beforehand, now they can boast that even their ultra-potables have full-size keys.



No kidding. I <3 my 12" PB.

and that's my 2-cents.I am thinking you are right on this since I think the same thing. :)

From what I have heard, those that have seen the prototypes said exactly the same thing.

The keyboard on this ultra-portable is supposedly virtually identical to the new aluminum keyboards in styling.

ClassicMac247
Dec 6, 2007, 03:57 PM
woo hoo, i know wat im getting with my christmas money!

GQB
Dec 6, 2007, 03:57 PM
What if it was a multi-touch tablet, but you could get a stand to prop it up so to speak, and use your bluetooth keyboard and mouse on it as well, so that when you had the two wirelessly connected, the touch keyboard would not come up on the screen when you wanted to type, and a cursor would pop up. On top of that you could use the touch screens many other gestures at the same time. I think that would be cool. Then, when you take it with you, or just want to use the touch, the cursor would disappear and the touch keyboard would show up again when needed.

on a realated note, touch screen controls would be nice for photoshop.... maybe a clamshell with a touch screen!

yes yes yes!
Pull out a any copy of an OReilly book 9" x 6 ". 11" diag.
There's my idea of optimal size for:
- Tablet when carried (a nice big touch)
- Traditional functionality when stood in a simple stand (dock) and paired with bluetooth keyboard and mouse magsafe passthrough on dock to allow charging in or out of dock. dock to externald HD and monitor if you need more space.

I had been thinking about some sort of Transformer ultraportable that allowed the screen/cpu to disconnect, but this would be much more elegant.

Still doubt it for Macworld tho'.

Jaymes
Dec 6, 2007, 04:01 PM
$1500? are you kidding me? do people not realize the prices of SSD drives in the market?

if this "super laptop" does have one, it'll be 16GB or less. and honestly, that's just pointless.

Well obviously InnoDisk (see link below) seems to think the price is set to fall off on these drives. I'd imagine they're just waiting around for a company like Apple to throw them some large quantity orders. You never know what kind of deals Jobs is going to work ... You can already get 32GB SSD drive for around $250 as individual units at newegg and such.

http://texyt.com/128GB+ssd+flash+hard+disk+drive+price+00101

Marx55
Dec 6, 2007, 04:02 PM
12-inches is far TOO large for a true ultra-portable. A handheld computer is what is needed. With a full Mac OS X inside. The computer in your pocket.

aswitcher
Dec 6, 2007, 04:08 PM
Sounds like a neat device, but if it's going to be:

- 12" Mac
- half the thickness of MacBook
- half the weight of MacBook
- no hard drive
- 8 or 16 Gig flash storage
- $400-500 more than current MacBook

... then I'm afraid to say I'll take the MacBook. And I'd bet this machine will quickly go the way of the G4 Cube.

Now if it was $400 *less* than the cheapest MacBook, I might buy one.

At least 16GB probably 32GB option as entry device to allow for real computing.

No DVD drive.

Cinch
Dec 6, 2007, 04:09 PM
With Back to My Mac, the size of the portable's "hard drive" becomes largely irrelevant. Well, unless you don't have .mac :)



True, however, not many of us are willing to pay for .mac. I know it is a bizarre human behaviour, and I'm no different. Paying $100 for a year to store data on the web? It sounds like a case for a Google solution!

Apple is not always right

Cinch

weckart
Dec 6, 2007, 04:10 PM
Yes...

http://eeepc.asus.com/global/

They really are quite good. I almost bought one, but got a (more expensive) iPhone instead.

I know there was huge initial demand for eeepc's too. (Everyone is sold out, basically.) But beyond the initial "cool" factor of a little tiny portable with solid state flash memory, I don't see the big deal for most people?

Possibly not. I'm posting from one now. It's light. Very light. Very cheap at a quarter of the price of my Macbook. Has decent battery life. A user friendly OS. Perfect for forum surfing and emailing, in fact. An impulse buy, which I doubt I will regret. My iPod Touch, however........

32 GB will be plenty for Apple's Lightbook. as long as there is a slot for an SD card or the like. You don't need an expensive SSD for your iTunes. 16GB SD cards can be had for about £70 these days and for even less, if/when Apple launches it next year

tMac85
Dec 6, 2007, 04:12 PM
so exactly what is happening with the ipod touch?

are they going to just make headlines because the are going to sell a lot.

or is something changing on it already????

MarlboroLite
Dec 6, 2007, 04:18 PM
So what were these 13.3" LED screen orders reported on yesterday for? :confused:

If this thing is going to be 12"...could they also come out with a 13.3"MBP??!!

I don't see them refreshing the Macbooks again with a simple LED addition and nothing else just 2 months after the SR update...they could have added the LED with the November update...

shimmer11
Dec 6, 2007, 04:20 PM
So what were these 13.3" LED screen orders reported on yesterday for? :confused:

If this thing is going to be 12"...could they also come out with a 13.3"MBP??!!

I don't see them refreshing the Macbooks again with a simple LED addition and nothing else just 2 months after the SR update...they could have added the LED with the November update...

Excellent point MarlboroLite...The 13.3" LED additions could simply be for the existing Macbook. But a 12" all aluminum lightweight MBP with flash may be the Macworld addition.

-Maclover

grappler
Dec 6, 2007, 04:20 PM
Why? Imagine a 12" Iphone screen where you wouldn't even need a keyboard. All of your input would be multi-touch. This sounds great to me. I don't even have an Iphone or a Touch yet and I think this could "revolutionize" the way we interact with computers.

Ever since I first played with one (an Iphone), I thought that this would make an incredible form-factor for an ultra-portable. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that this could be another "ground-breaking" product for Apple.

Again, I too, think that this would not be a replacement for a main system but be a way to portable-ize everything you do on your home or office system. Granted, this may not be what they are actually releasing so I could be getting all excited for nothing! :o

When you put words in quotes like that, I'm not sure if you intend to add emphasis, as with a bold typeface.

When I read it, I picture you using finger quotes while talking.

gkarris
Dec 6, 2007, 04:22 PM
I'm thinking that it'll be "announced" in Jan but not available until the end of Feb or end of March (kinda like the iPhone/iTV/Touch wait for it... deal) to give SDD time to go down in price.

I can see a 32 Gig and a 64 Gig model....

GQB
Dec 6, 2007, 04:24 PM
Whenever this thread comes up, I always feel like a certain segment is looking at a 'Think' car and asking where they're going to put their 427 Hemi.

People have to get over this idea that they're going to get (or need) desktop/developer/graphicsdesigner performance out of an ultraportable or tablet. That's just not where the new users and market are going. Japanese users are showing the canary-in-the-coalmine for big honkin' desktop systems (and even for overpowered laptops).

A lot of users will still need that power, but way more don't.
I think the market is shaking out into the 'trucks' and the 'high milage 2-seaters'.

Megaprocessingpower is really only needed by a small % of users. The power needed for 95% of everyday use doesn't justify it or its associated costs. The market will ultimately reflect that.

timish
Dec 6, 2007, 04:28 PM
The killer app for the iphone regardless of 3G or Edge is being able to tether it via USB or bluetooth to the mac so you can use it as a wireless modem.

If Apple is going to 3G, that would REALLY make it useful.

For those debating the speed on just using connectivity on the iphone EDGE vs. 3G, at this point speed is not the problem since you can't download using this device as of yet.

I used to have a Blackberry and being able to use that as a conduit to access the Internet was VERY useful.

If Apple implements that in the current phone and the possible new one that would be very very very cool.

Tim

OldTimey
Dec 6, 2007, 04:35 PM
If EDGE and 3G were automobiles EDGE would be a run down jalopy and 3G would be a Formula 1 race car. There is no comparison.

agreed. EDGE is fine for basic web stuff, but it really can't touch 3G when it comes to streaming multimedia...

Superman07
Dec 6, 2007, 04:36 PM
Why does it piss you off, it's nearly 6 months away and that's just technology. I got a Macbook Pro and 2 weeks later a faster one came out for the same price, nothing I could do about it. Even when it does come out, I can't see it being significantly different, apart from 3G and maybe a larger drive. You will continue to receive updates via software, so just enjoy it :). Come February when the SDK comes out, things should get exciting


I agree with this. Somebody on page 1 said don't expect the 3G iPhone until the end of 2008. If Apple waits that long it's a mistake. In the computer/technology industry 1.5 years (2 since announcement) is suicide. Especially since the iPhone is Apple's only entry into the phone market. Apple is not Nokia where they have a litany of phones where they can wait to release their high end products. However that is being generous. If you look at Nokia's release history for their flagship multimedia phones they release 5 iterations over 2 years! Even if some were incrimental, the iPhone isn't so great that is has the "priviledge" to realease 1 every 2 years.

Also, keep in mind that Steve said they wanted to crack 10 million phones by the end of 08. Unless you introduce another model and drop the price on this one I really don't see that they are on track to reach that goal.

OldTimey
Dec 6, 2007, 04:38 PM
Megaprocessingpower is really only needed by a small % of users. The power needed for 95% of everyday use doesn't justify it or its associated costs. The market will ultimately reflect that.

blame software companies then. the razzle dazzle of Vista and Leopard DO require a decent amount of processing power just to do tasks that were quite basic in in previous generations of the OS's...

blame advertisers and web content developers...ever try visiting CNN.com on a single Proc. G4? it can be pretty painful...

Cloudsurfer
Dec 6, 2007, 04:48 PM
A flash notebook for $1500?? Hahahaha.

nathanbal
Dec 6, 2007, 04:55 PM
I agree with this. Somebody on page 1 said don't expect the 3G iPhone until the end of 2008. If Apple waits that long it's a mistake. In the computer/technology industry 1.5 years (2 since announcement) is suicide. Especially since the iPhone is Apple's only entry into the phone market. Apple is not Nokia where they have a litany of phones where they can wait to release their high end products. However that is being generous. If you look at Nokia's release history for their flagship multimedia phones they release 5 iterations over 2 years! Even if some were incrimental, the iPhone isn't so great that is has the "priviledge" to realease 1 every 2 years.

Also, keep in mind that Steve said they wanted to crack 10 million phones by the end of 08. Unless you introduce another model and drop the price on this one I really don't see that they are on track to reach that goal.

good point - they have just updated the N95 after only 6 months...

NYCMacFan
Dec 6, 2007, 04:56 PM
A Black Macbook retails for $1500, what gives on the crazy pricing? Where is the Pro premium with this laptop?

Given that a 32gig ssd is gotta be like $300 best case and 64gig ssd is $700 or more (the costs Apple pays, not us), it sounds like a pretty tight pricing...

The Sony TZ is what $3999 for 64gig SD with 12inch and a drive (small, but thicker). I'd be ready to scream at Sony if Apple almost does the same for $1500....

MacRumorUser
Dec 6, 2007, 05:00 PM
I wait with bated breath, and will probably purchase the ultra laptop on impulse alone, but only if its 32gb 'minimum' on board storage. Anything less and I'll have to pass though.

Antares
Dec 6, 2007, 05:01 PM
I like the sound of "Super Laptop." :D

NYCMacFan
Dec 6, 2007, 05:01 PM
I'm thinking that it'll be "announced" in Jan but not available until the end of Feb or end of March (kinda like the iPhone/iTV/Touch wait for it... deal) to give SDD time to go down in price.

I can see a 32 Gig and a 64 Gig model....

Only issues with that is people don't tend to like it. Apple did this only with the Iphone and that was to build a line of demand for when it came out.

It will want to refresh the whole MBP line in January. So a bit odd to offer new 15" and 17" MBP and say - wait a new 12" or 13.3" one is coming. They might fear that that will sort of dampen sales in January and February on both MB and MBP lines.

Apple's pricing is such that they can afford to eat the price of the SSD rather than wait a few weeks. All their component prices come down. But the pricing for consumers is sticky. So there margins grow in the product life cycle as the COGS falls for key components (e.g the price they pay Intel for chips or what they pay for flash memory for IPODs changes monthly, where the overall price does not).

Apple's margins follow a wave motion, sales follow a wave motion but with an earlier crests. So since profits=volume*margin and volume is a touch inversely correlated too margin, profits are reasonably constant and smoothed out.

Superman07
Dec 6, 2007, 05:05 PM
Apple's pricing is such that they can afford to eat the price of the SSD rather than wait a few weeks. All their component prices come down. But the pricing for consumers is sticky. So there margins grow in the product life cycle as the COGS falls for key components (e.g the price they pay Intel for chips or what they pay for flash memory for IPODs changes monthly, where the overall price does not).

Apple's margins follow a wave motion, sales follow a wave motion but with an earlier crests. So since profits=volume*margin and volume is a touch inversely correlated too margin, profits are reasonably constant and smoothed out.

Any figure for Apple's cash reserves? It might give us an idea of how willing they would be to eat some of these costs.

Steve Works
Dec 6, 2007, 05:05 PM
Apple was first to get rid of the floppy.

Now they're getting rid of the optical (about time, my 12" Thinkpad X31 doesn't have one nor do I miss it - you can get a portable external anyways).

Might as well get rid of the Hard Disk. Tons of stuff? You can get a mobile external of that too...

Nice job Apple, bad news for my bank account...

let me see... $1500...without optical drive...just because it's screen is an inch smaller than the macbook...for that price i'd have the macbook... because the "ultra portable" has limited HD (64Gbs sucks!)...and probably it's performance isn't superior than the macbook (i doubt they would have the new penryn cpu...so no more batery life in a smaller device)....
but hey, those Mac Die-Hard Fans (who buy every thing even if they don't need...) will buy them...
i mean, i want to watch a dvd and i need an external drive?? please god...then i just have to carry extra weight...that could be ON the laptop (and no so heavy...)

and someone said "apple was the first to drop the floppy..."
to you my friend i just have to say: Macbook still has a combo drive... how obsolete is that?
PC was the first to drop that....

zioxide
Dec 6, 2007, 05:08 PM
let me see... $1500...without optical drive...just because it's screen is an inch smaller than the macbook...for that price i'd have the macbook... because the "ultra portable" has limited HD (64Gbs sucks!)...and probably it's performance isn't superior than the macbook (i doubt they would have the new penryn cpu...so no more batery life in a smaller device)....
but hey, those Mac Die-Hard Fans (who buy every thing even if they don't need...) will buy them...
i mean, i want to watch a dvd and i need an external drive?? please god...then i just have to carry extra weight...that could be ON the laptop (and no so heavy...)

and someone said "apple was the first to drop the floppy..."
to you my friend i just have to say: Macbook still has a combo drive... how obsolete is that?
PC was the first to drop that....

somebody doesn't understand the concept of an ultraportable.

NYCMacFan
Dec 6, 2007, 05:09 PM
Any figure for Apple's cash reserves? It might give us an idea of how willing they would be to eat some of these costs.

Ample reserves. It is more an issue of smoothing quarterly earnings per share. Here is data from Yahoo:

Apple Income Statement
Revenue (ttm): 24.01B
EBITDA (ttm): 4.73B
Net Income Avl to Common (ttm): 3.50B

Apple Balance Sheet
Total Cash (mrq): 15.39B
Total Debt (mrq): 0
Current Ratio (mrq): 2.361
Levered Free Cash Flow (ttm): 2.77B

Cloudsurfer
Dec 6, 2007, 05:13 PM
What's wrong with 64 GB again? Didn't the original entry level MacBook have a 60 GB hard disk as well? I didn't hear anyone complaining back then.

MacRumorUser
Dec 6, 2007, 05:17 PM
One simple question though.

If you drop the DVD completely from the device ? How on earth will the machine install applications ? How will it come with the installation disks ? If they have to be stored on a smaller partition of the disk, then immediately were losing 6Gb or so from the already restrictive storage.

Fine for people who already have mac's and can use target mode and such, but for newbies - I can see this being a mighty nightmare.

zioxide
Dec 6, 2007, 05:21 PM
One simple question though.

If you drop the DVD completely from the device ? How on earth will the machine install applications ? How will it come with the installation disks ? If they have to be stored on a smaller partition of the disk, then immediately were losing 6Gb or so from the already restrictive storage.

Fine for people who already have mac's and can use target mode and such, but for newbies - I can see this being a mighty nightmare.

External DVD drive for software installation.

That's what the Dell D430 (12'' 3lb laptop with SSD & LV C2D) comes with.

Steve Works
Dec 6, 2007, 05:27 PM
Considering I have an iMac, I'm not too worried about capacity size of my future ultra portable investment...

If I really wanted to carry my whole iTunes library with me I would bring my iPod with me and just play my music through the iPod itself or through the computer from the iPod

With that being said I'm thinking there will only be a 64GB version which will be plenty good for a bunch of music and a collection of photos

1st - and for those who don't have an ipod??
2nd - and for those who don't want to carry and extra hard drive just because apple wants to use flash to soon...


except: i saw someone posting about some new flash sdd up to 500gb..now that would be great!!! include an optical....and i'm in!
i want to go to my university and not having to carry and external hd...and external optical..i mean...what's the logic in that?!?!?

whynot83706
Dec 6, 2007, 05:28 PM
If EDGE and 3G were automobiles EDGE would be a run down jalopy and 3G would be a Formula 1 race car. There is no comparison.

The question is how many people will be benefiting from 3g, I dont think that whole ATT network is 3g

tirerim
Dec 6, 2007, 05:32 PM
I can see a 32 Gig and a 64 Gig model....
Only issues with that is people don't tend to like it. Apple did this only with the Iphone and that was to build a line of demand for when it came out.


Apple offers build-to-order options for hard drives on most machines. This would be no different. The iPhone was simply marketed differently, more like an iPod than like a computer (which makes sense).

Steve Works
Dec 6, 2007, 05:38 PM
somebody doesn't understand the concept of an ultraportable.

oh yes...ultraportable means just type or whatever...just work? sounds like microsoft to me...
imagine i make a move in my mac...i burn it where?!?! save it to my pen? then to my desktop computer, then to a dvd? that's to much time involved..

tirerim
Dec 6, 2007, 05:38 PM
1st - and for those who don't have an ipod??
2nd - and for those who don't want to carry and extra hard drive just because apple wants to use flash to soon...

except: i saw someone posting about some new flash sdd up to 500gb..now that would be great!!! include an optical....and i'm in!
i want to go to my university and not having to carry and external hd...and external optical..i mean...what's the logic in that?!?!?

Well, if you really need all that space at all times, an ultraportable is not for you. I, on the other hand, am not planning on ever buying another laptop with a hard disk. So I won't be able to carry my entire music collection everywhere I go unless I bring an iPod (and realistically, I generally won't)? So what? For me, a laptop is for work, not for play.

When the 512GB flash drives come along in a couple more years (yes, that's what the article said), I'm sure that'll be great, but 32GB will be enough for me in the meantime.

nemaslov
Dec 6, 2007, 05:40 PM
Think of it as an iPhone Plus (without the phone).



Wouldn't that be an iPhone Minus?

Spades
Dec 6, 2007, 05:43 PM
oh yes...ultraportable means just type or whatever...just work? sounds like microsoft to me...
imagine i make a move in my mac...i burn it where?!?! save it to my pen? then to my desktop computer, then to a dvd? that's to much time involved..

Burn? Now might be time to get used to this phrase: "Physical media is so 2007." ;)

Your options for movies with an ultraportable are:

a) External burner.
b) Copy to another device for playback. (AppleTV...) You have wi-fi after all, plus the improved sharing in Leopard. (Back To My Mac...)
c) Playback directly from the ultraportable by plugging it into the monitor or TV.
d) Upload video to .Mac, YouTube, wherever.

Steve Works
Dec 6, 2007, 05:44 PM
Well, if you really need all that space at all times, an ultraportable is not for you. I, on the other hand, am not planning on ever buying another laptop with a hard disk. So I won't be able to carry my entire music collection everywhere I go unless I bring an iPod (and realistically, I generally won't)? So what? For me, a laptop is for work, not for play.

When the 512GB flash drives come along in a couple more years (yes, that's what the article said), I'm sure that'll be great, but 32GB will be enough for me in the meantime.

i nead lots of space all the time...i think that 512gb drives will be perfect...but juts 32gb is to small...
with the OS...the apps...you will have like 25gb available...and i had that in a pc like 10years ago as the HD...i don't want to keep moving files to an HD from time to time...and sometimes when you need something that you made some time ago..and already moved it...it's like :mad: ...so more space and an optical and that's it... i'm studying biology, and i have software that come only in cds and i don't want to keep copying it to a pen to install nor having to carry an external optical...

MacRumorUser
Dec 6, 2007, 05:45 PM
External DVD drive for software installation.

That's what the Dell D430 (12'' 3lb laptop with SSD & LV C2D) comes with.


Wouldn't that be more expensive to manufacture than an internal one?

nemaslov
Dec 6, 2007, 05:46 PM
Can they included several linked together flash drives so you get more storage?

I still have (writing now) my 12" PB. What a great laptop. PERFECT SIZE.

Spades
Dec 6, 2007, 05:46 PM
Now we need two computers to manage iTunes? How about a wireless harddrive that serve both as backup and storing your music?

Personally, I would love to run a laptop for the entire day without the need to plug in.

No, the relationship of the ultraportable to your desktop is just like an iPhone or iPod Touch to the desktop. Most of your management is done on the desktop. Anything you create on the smaller device (playlists, purchased/added songs), gets synced back up to the desktop the next time you connect.

tirerim
Dec 6, 2007, 05:47 PM
oh yes...ultraportable means just type or whatever...just work? sounds like microsoft to me...
imagine i make a move in my mac...i burn it where?!?! save it to my pen? then to my desktop computer, then to a dvd? that's to much time involved..

I think you're confused... Microsoft just doesn't work. ;-)

Also, what in the world are you talking about when you say "make a move in my mac"? That sentence doesn't even make sense. You mean movies, perhaps? Get an external DVD burner. They're not that expensive these days. Again, if you need to burn DVDs wherever you are (not just at home), an ultraportable is not for you. Or if you have a desktop, what in the world are you doing making movies on your laptop? I certainly don't do my heavy duty photo editing on my PowerBook; that's what I have a Power Mac for.

Steve Works
Dec 6, 2007, 05:48 PM
Burn? Now might be time to get used to this phrase: "Physical media is so 2007." ;)

Your options for movies with an ultraportable are:

a) External burner.
b) Copy to another device for playback. (AppleTV...) You have wi-fi after all, plus the improved sharing in Leopard. (Back To My Mac...)
c) Playback directly from the ultraportable by plugging it into the monitor or TV.
d) Upload video to .Mac, YouTube, wherever.

Pshysical Media is so 2007 looooool i know :p it's just that i really need to burn cds (and dvds) sometimes...and carrying an external burner in my bag when i go to college kinda sucks...and i don't have an .Mac account..and youtube has bad quality... i mean...it's no big deal to include the drive...and probably will come handy!! for me it is...even if for you no...eventually..
imagine updating from Mas OS X 10.5 to 10.6 from a pen drive?!?!!? LOL
no optical...web update??? nice idea but will it work?....

eric55lv
Dec 6, 2007, 05:49 PM
if they do introduce a ultra-portable laptop im thinking of buying it

tirerim
Dec 6, 2007, 05:51 PM
Wouldn't that be more expensive to manufacture than an internal one?

Cheaper, probably -- the external one won't be subject to the component miniaturization that an internal one would be. The important factor isn't the price, though, it's the weight, which you won't be carrying around most of the time.

Steve Works
Dec 6, 2007, 05:53 PM
I think you're confused... Microsoft just doesn't work. ;-)

Also, what in the world are you talking about when you say "make a move in my mac"? That sentence doesn't even make sense. You mean movies, perhaps? Get an external DVD burner. They're not that expensive these days. Again, if you need to burn DVDs wherever you are (not just at home), an ultraportable is not for you. Or if you have a desktop, what in the world are you doing making movies on your laptop? I certainly don't do my heavy duty photo editing on my PowerBook; that's what I have a Power Mac for.

yeah yeah sorry ...movie...i need the ultraportable because of the weight...i have to go out to study on the field...and carrying a bigger laptop won't work...
i mean...i would just need a 12" macbook (pro) to work. And carrying a dvd burner is not an option... :( i think that :apple: should just include the drive...
i can't imagine how many people still use cds in my university...not everyone is tech friendly... i mean..i still have people that give me floppys... i just look at it like "what am i supposed to do with this?" but with a cd that doesn't make sense...


i just need the 12"...not being ultraportable... just make the 12" G4 into a 12" MacBook and that would be perfect

GeekLawyer
Dec 6, 2007, 06:01 PM
12-inches is far TOO large for a true ultra-portable. A handheld computer is what is needed. With a full Mac OS X inside. The computer in your pocket.

Steve made you an iPhone. Let me show you it.

Or, for that matter, I suppose, an iPod Touch.

But I think you already knew that, you coy devil. :p

amac4me
Dec 6, 2007, 06:08 PM
Pshysical Media is so 2007 looooool i know :p it's just that i really need to burn cds (and dvds) sometimes...and carrying an external burner in my bag when i go to college kinda sucks...and i don't have an .Mac account..and youtube has bad quality... i mean...it's no big deal to include the drive...and probably will come handy!! for me it is...even if for you no...eventually..
imagine updating from Mas OS X 10.5 to 10.6 from a pen drive?!?!!? LOL
no optical...web update??? nice idea but will it work?....

Who really needs media these days. For the most part, you can get everything via download from the Internet ... software, music, movies, and so on. Besides, USB thumb drives have reached a point where 4GB and 8GB are affordable. There's really not much of a need to burn things to disc.

It makes sense for computer manufacturers to offload the media production and distribution costs to the end consumer.

Hence, it makes sense for an ultra portable system to be without an optical drive. An external one as an option makes sense.

sk8ordie
Dec 6, 2007, 06:12 PM
Hey! You all laughed last year but I got the iPhone mostly right. So.. If the thing is so thin and no hard drive then it's a tablet, not a laptop. Bank this:

Tablet. 8.5 by 11" or less, 12" diag glass screen, 720p HD screen or better, thick as an iPhone. No keyboard, no optical. 32GB flash, 8 memory card slots so you can add a ton of RAM yourself. Power over Ethernet, WiFi, Bluetooth, USB, no FireWire no Express Card. Multi-Touch for fingers, stylus for Ink. Leopard. MagSafe.

:eek:

That WOULD be ultra portable.....about 3x the size of the iphone/touch and the rumored $1500 price tag is roughly 3x the price of the iphone/touch...... :eek: That would be flipping amazing to see!! I wouldnt buy one as it wouldnt fit my needs but absolutely sick nonetheless.

Personally Im hoping for a 13" MBP (which I would buy)

...cant wait for MacWorld!!

winterspan
Dec 6, 2007, 06:18 PM
No hd and (presumably) no optical means a 100% solid state laptop. Has any company done this before?

Besides Sony, Toshiba and 5 other Japanese brands...

ncbill
Dec 6, 2007, 06:18 PM
SSD is a gimmick - no measurable advantage in speed, power consumption, or weight, only in shock resistance (great if you need a Toughbook)

SSD won't be in a $1500 notebook (64GB SSD is still $1000+)

What could be done at a $1500 price point is 8/16GB of flash for the operating system and a few of the most used applications, with a "regular" 2.5" hard drive for the rest.

What I've appreciated about my MacBook is just how cheap and easy it is to upgrade (4GB RAM $100, $125 for 250GB hard drive), so I hope future notebooks keep that aspect of the MacBook's design.

winterspan
Dec 6, 2007, 06:20 PM
You're totally right in saying that, T-Mobile have restricted me so that I have 3G but I'm not aloud to listen to streamed music or videos. File sharing, VOIP and messaging aren't allowed. So you would see very little benefit on an iPhone, apart from pages loading a little faster, you would still get the noticable lag as it performs DNS lookups, etc..

GPRS/EDGE is absolutely fine for the iPhone, it works really well, considering all you are really doing to viewing websites and email. You are not downloading large movies or files, so it works great

first of all, the 3g iphone will be on AT&T, not t-mobile. Secondly, TMOBILE DOES NOT HAVE 3G SERVICE! LOL. What are you smoking?

winterspan
Dec 6, 2007, 06:26 PM
I know there was huge initial demand for eeepc's too. (Everyone is sold out, basically.) But beyond the initial "cool" factor of a little tiny portable with solid state flash memory, I don't see the big deal for most people?

This subnotebook from Apple sounds like it'll fill a similar niche market. Despite all the talk about "huge pent up demand" for a small notebook from Apple, I'm not really convinced it's true.

The thing is, you can ask the "average user" if they'd like to own a thin, light and tiny notebook and they almost always say "Yeah! That'd be great!" But once they sit down and use such a thing for a while, the complaints start pouring in. "The screen is giving me eye-strain!" "I wish the keyboard wasn't so cramped for space!" "This thing is too slow!" "I have to carry around external devices all the time to plug into it!" "I wish I had more drive space in it!" "Such and such broke on it, and nobody can do service work on it but the manufacturer, and the parts are back-ordered for weeks!"

Sure, it will be ideal for a few people. But I wager MOST people will find more usability in something like a 15" Macbook Pro or current Macbook -- even though the styling and "hype" will make a lot of people WANT to own it, at first.

Have you used a 12" laptop before? They are FAR from unusable. I have large hands and most work great. You comparing a POS EEPC or whatever to a REAL subnotebook like what Apple would bring out is laughable.
a 12" wide screen with a decent resolution doesn't cause eye-strain.
And assuming they put in a Intel Core 2 DUO Low voltage or the new penryn medium voltage it will be REAL quick. Not even in the same WORLD as that Asus crap.

The demand has already been shown to be there. Until now, the price is what has kept people from them. Apple is not the only computer manufacturer in the world. Panasonic and Sony in particular have some really incredible little subnotebooks.. mostly available in Asia/Europe however. Some models available in the USA.

http://www.dynamism.com/Notebooks/Subnotebooks/categorygroup.shtml

naftalim
Dec 6, 2007, 06:32 PM
I have a 20" Alu. iMac at home in my den. I would like a light OSX based laptop that I can use when sitting on the sofa, or if its a nice day, having coffee somewhere, for sending some email, writing some letters etc.

Would I be willing to pay $1500 for this ultraportable? Probably not unless I get a big chunk of money. So, personally I can see the use, but the cost would be prohibitive for a 2nd computer with lesser capabilities.

We saw how Palm Foleo was a big bust and that was cheaper.

winterspan
Dec 6, 2007, 06:36 PM
Can we get some hard statistics and numbers on the board (facts) rather than just vague statements about formula 1 cars and saloon cars.

I'm pretty sure that 3G can perform to 384kbits/sec maximum but really want to know what the theoretical maximum of EDGE is? On here ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution )it says:

EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network.

EDGE operating in 8 timeslots/connection is rarely implemented. 236kbps is the theoretical maximum for EDGE, most cases you'll get between 100-150kbps. For comparison, I have a Verizon 3G/EVDO Rev.A connection which is capable of 3100kbps down and 1800kbps up. However, On average I see 600-1500kbps down and 400-800kbps upload depending on area. Newer phones are much faster than older, and likewise, laptop cards are usually faster than any 3G phones.

Now the GSM/UMTS/HSPA route is a little different from EVDO. HSDPA (downlink) can be 1800kbps, 3600kbps, 7200kbps or higher. I think A. Unfortunately I don't think they have rolled our their fast upload yet (HSUPA) so the upload is 150-200kbps. In the future HSUPA will take it to 1500 or 3000kbps. I think on average, users of 3G/HSDPA get about similar speeds as Verizon or Sprint 3G/EVDO, or [B]about 4x-6x faster than EDGE.

sikkinixx
Dec 6, 2007, 06:37 PM
I dunno about most people, but when I had my Macbook, the problem wasn't it was too thick, just that 13.3" is still too big for 'small' laptop (still tiny compared to my friend's Dell beasts), hence the reason I bit the bullet and went for the mbp because frankly, that little bit bigger wasn't a huge issue since the Macbook isn't super small anyways and the performance/resolution differences are nice.

A nice 10" Sony-style one would be awesome and might actually make me considering buying the smaller laptop again (*sigh* I miss the 12" PB). The price certainly seems nice on the supposed Apple one but if the specs are too far downgraded to cram it into the teeny body then will it be worth it?

zioxide
Dec 6, 2007, 06:42 PM
Pshysical Media is so 2007 looooool i know :p it's just that i really need to burn cds (and dvds) sometimes...and carrying an external burner in my bag when i go to college kinda sucks...and i don't have an .Mac account..and youtube has bad quality... i mean...it's no big deal to include the drive...and probably will come handy!! for me it is...even if for you no...eventually..
imagine updating from Mas OS X 10.5 to 10.6 from a pen drive?!?!!? LOL
no optical...web update??? nice idea but will it work?....

i nead lots of space all the time...i think that 512gb drives will be perfect...but juts 32gb is to small...
with the OS...the apps...you will have like 25gb available...and i had that in a pc like 10years ago as the HD...i don't want to keep moving files to an HD from time to time...and sometimes when you need something that you made some time ago..and already moved it...it's like :mad: ...so more space and an optical and that's it... i'm studying biology, and i have software that come only in cds and i don't want to keep copying it to a pen to install nor having to carry an external optical...

The external optical would be staying at your desk.. you wouldn't carry it the whole time. Those 512GB drives are a few years off too. You don't really seem like the market for an ultraportable, more like a regular Macbook. Ultraportable is for people who really want portability to supplement a main machine. Like, I'm a film student and I have this massive MBP for editing, but its way too big to take to classes for note taking on the tiny lecture desks. I'd love to have a small laptop (I had a 12'' ibook but its dead) (the size of a small textbook) to put in my bag to take to class, the library, etc. My MBP right now is pretty much like a desktop replacement.

SSD is a gimmick - no measurable advantage in speed, power consumption, or weight, only in shock resistance (great if you need a Toughbook)

SSD won't be in a $1500 notebook (64GB SSD is still $1000+)

What could be done at a $1500 price point is 8/16GB of flash for the operating system and a few of the most used applications, with a "regular" 2.5" hard drive for the rest.

What I've appreciated about my MacBook is just how cheap and easy it is to upgrade (4GB RAM $100, $125 for 250GB hard drive), so I hope future notebooks keep that aspect of the MacBook's design.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208317

32GB SSD for $279. A company like Apple buying in huge quantities would be able to get that for like $200. That's feasable for a $1500 laptop.

Dell offers a 64GB SSD upgrade (from 32GB) for $399 extra on their D430 12''.

winterspan
Dec 6, 2007, 06:42 PM
Surely, rather than using SSD, wouldn't it make more sense (and be alot cheaper) to use a iPod sized hard drive, or one slightly bigger, just something that spun at 4,200 pm so you'd still get some kind of relatively normal performance?

hahahah 4200RPM 1.8" HDD. Do you have ANY IDEA HOW SLOW THOSE ARE???
I've had 1st hand experience with a subnotebook with a 1.8". It was the slowest damn thing imaginable. If I had one, I would replace it with an IDE-to-CF adapter and stick in a 16GB compact flash card... That would be twice as fast...

winterspan
Dec 6, 2007, 06:45 PM
Fantastically put, EDGE/GPRS works perfectly for what the iPhone is designed to do. All I get is GPRS and have no complaints about it. If I want to watch streaming videos or download large files, I use my broadband at home

WHAT? GRPS at 60kbps? Wouldn't you get like ~30kbps in the real world? Half the speed of 56kbps dialup??? Tell me.. How long does it take to load ONE nytimes.com news article page?

Cheffy Dave
Dec 6, 2007, 06:46 PM
I would so pissed off if apple did come out with iphone 2 in june, I just got my iphone.

Apple can't keep everyone happy,somebody,somewhere,will be pissed off at them somewhere. We just have to jump in when we can, and be happy with what we got:cool::confused::apple:

pubwvj
Dec 6, 2007, 06:58 PM
What we need is for these devices to be wirelessly connected to our home networks and syncronized when not in use so that they are accessible.

phlabse
Dec 6, 2007, 07:03 PM
Will this "super laptop" be conducive for a college student who does word processing, browse the internet, have some photos/videos (nothing more than a couple gb), and an itunes library of 5 to 8 gb?

If so, I'm in!

ncbill
Dec 6, 2007, 07:13 PM
32GB is too small for a main drive, and again, SSD offers no performance advantage in a consumer notebook over a regular 2.5" SATA drive.

No chance of a 64GB SSD for $400 extra - Apple demands healthy margins on component upgrades (check their prices for factory-installed RAM)

But there's still more than enough room on the motherboard for 16GB of flash RAM (Apple's already buying plenty) and a 160 or 250GB 2.5" SATA hard drive ($125 retail for 250GB)


32GB SSD for $279. A company like Apple buying in huge quantities would be able to get that for like $200. That's feasable for a $1500 laptop.

Dell offers a 64GB SSD upgrade (from 32GB) for $399 extra on their D430 12''.

winterspan
Dec 6, 2007, 07:23 PM
I don't personally think there will be solid-state memory in this laptop. It's too new and it's too expensive. But I could always be wrong.
SSDs have been used in subnotebooks/"ultra-portables" for 5+ years. Many subnotebooks from Panasonic, Sony, and other Japanese companies have SSDs, but they have been expensive.
The other major user of SSDs are military/industrial/Aerospace applications including laptops and embedded computers.

I agree with previous posters that Apple won't release a < 32 gb machine. They really need to have AT LEAST 80 gb.
How reliable is flash memory long term for heavy usage? Right now flash drives are generally used in devices that act more like "storage." I literally have computers with harddrives that have been going strong for 10+ years ... I think they might be more reliable than flash drives.


Flash SSDs are still at $10-15/GB.. 32GB is likely... maybe an upgrade to 64GB. But that will throw the price into the $2500+ range. About reliability, flash SSDs are VERY RELIABLE! Much more so than HDDs, especially the smaller/cheaper ones. No moving parts. The reliability/toughness is precisely why the military/aerospace industry has been using them for years...

I agree... *if* they do SSD, I definitely think that they would go with 64GB as a bare minimum... but I wouldn't be surprised if it was 128GB, upgradeable to something more...
See above


SSD is a gimmick - no measurable advantage in speed, power consumption, or weight, only in shock resistance (great if you need a Toughbook)
Flash SSDs *can* be much faster than a 2.5" 5400rmp drive .. and they can blow the 1.8" 4200rpm drives out of the water! And actually, SSDs do have a considerable advantage in power consumption. Ive seen
some testing benchmarks around the net. Looks to be >25% reduction in power usage.


I think it would have the exact opposite appeal. I travel with my stupid Acer laptop on the plane all the time. I find it too big and cumbersome as well as awkward to use with the flip up screen. (Not to mention all the Windows problems I've had with it, but that's another story) If they came out with a design like a tablet that had a cover that folded underneath and you could just work on the surface of it...I'm sold.
And while I do agree with you in that typing would at first be awkward, we adapt, man. I'm sure we would get used to it.
Finally, alot of folks said that the Iphone was gimmicky, too. 'Nuff said.

Onscreen keyboard good for iPhone thumb-typing... as a replacement for a full size "regular" typing keyboard? Not so much. Seems like it would be very difficult to type on. (coming from an Iphone user)


Excellent news! I'll be in the market for a laptop this spring so I cannot wait for an ultra portable to tote around on the college campus. I need 64GB minimum though (35.6GB iTunes Library) or it won't work... I'll likely be disappointed in the capacity range and have to opt for a Hard Drive based notebook but you never know :)
Why on earth would you need to put all your music on a subnotebook?? Get a small 2.5" external drive to keep in your dorm or whatever. if you want a 64GB+ subnotebook, you better be a rich college kid.


Whenever this thread comes up, I always feel like a certain segment is looking at a 'Think' car and asking where they're going to put their 427 Hemi.

People have to get over this idea that they're going to get (or need) desktop/developer/graphicsdesigner performance out of an ultraportable or tablet. That's just not where the new users and market are going. Japanese users are showing the canary-in-the-coalmine for big honkin' desktop systems (and even for overpowered laptops).
A lot of users will still need that power, but way more don't.
I think the market is shaking out into the 'trucks' and the 'high milage 2-seaters'.
Megaprocessingpower is really only needed by a small % of users. The power needed for 95% of everyday use doesn't justify it or its associated costs. The market will ultimately reflect that.
Exactly...

i nead lots of space all the time...i think that 512gb drives will be perfect...but juts 32gb is to small...
with the OS...the apps...you will have like 25gb available...and i had that in a pc like 10years ago as the HD...i don't want to keep moving files to an HD from time to time...and sometimes when you need something that you made some time ago..and already moved it...it's like :mad: ...so more space and an optical and that's it... i'm studying biology, and i have software that come only in cds and i don't want to keep copying it to a pen to install nor having to carry an external optical...
512GB?? Hahahah. thats funny. Do you really need more than 32-64GB on a small laptop? What would you need to be on there that an external 2.5" 250GB drive couldn't hold? If USB is too slow, I'm sure Apple will put a Firewire 400 or 800 on there. Maybe an eSata?

What we need is for these devices to be wirelessly connected to our home networks and syncronized when not in use so that they are accessible.
That wouldn't be too difficult to do at all. Have a sync daemon on your laptop that waits until the home network becomes available then runs a synchronization program in the background. :)

winterspan
Dec 6, 2007, 07:31 PM
32GB is too small for a main drive, and again, SSD offers no performance advantage in a consumer notebook over a regular 2.5" SATA drive.

Some would disagree. A subnotebook after all shouldn't be a primary machine. I figure 32GB is good enough with a 200GB external. Maybe even a 64GB upgrade, although that would probably put the laptop into the $2500+ range.
however, I doubt it will be $1500 in the first place.

SDD offers no performance advantage? Thats definitely an over-generalization.. A decent SSD is easily faster than a 2.5" 5400RPM HDD and uses >20% less energy. a 2.5" 7200rpm in a subnotebook will be too loud.. too much power draw. Obviously, an SSD will blow away any 1.8" 4200rpm. Not too mention the fact that it will allow a smaller enclosure, better heat dissipation, etc.
[/QUOTE]

matthewHUB
Dec 6, 2007, 07:32 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

assuming this comes out in January, what are the chances of an upgrade/speed bump/larger hd by WWDC in June? I reckon I can get 6 more months out of my PowerBook.

phalewhale
Dec 6, 2007, 07:54 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

assuming this comes out in January, what are the chances of an upgrade/speed bump/larger hd by WWDC in June? I reckon I can get 6 more months out of my PowerBook.

Jee Wizz dude. You gotta be taking the p1$$! LOL. Here you are asking if a machine that isn't even released yet is gonna be updated by WWDC. Excellent.

Apple love people like you! I must say though, I've had my share of it.

Anyway, the reason I wanted to post was to say that I really doubt a 3G iPhone is on the cards in 2008. There will definitely be at least one upgrade to the iPhone in 2008 but 3G won't be making it. I'd put money on it. In fact, I'm going to the bookies tomorrow to see what odds I'll get. Worth a fiver I think.

I can see a smaller/slimmer iPhone with at least a 3.2MP camera as well as other improvements live video shoot capability, improved phone functionality. A 2MP camera is paltry by today's standards. My current Sony Ericsson K810i takes lovely little photos for a phone.

dpierre
Dec 6, 2007, 07:58 PM
There's a TON of pent-up demand for an Intel-based 12-inch Mac portable. Ever since the transition away from PowerPC, people have been waiting for a smaller MacBook or MacBook Pro. These things will sell like crazy.
Exactly the reason why I still haven't upgraded my 12" pbG4 yet.

sushi
Dec 6, 2007, 08:08 PM
Now if it was $400 *less* than the cheapest MacBook, I might buy one.
Guess you won't be buying one then. Ultra-portables are for those with $ that need portability.

well 32 gb fells kinda short
i actually expect more like 64gb,
I would imagine that Apple will offer a base model and have upgrades, like they do now with Hard Drives.

DELL is taking a bath on that price point as well. Their margins are very lean.
Out of curiosity, how do you know this?

AFAIK, we do not know the actual price that Dell pays for their memory and other components.

somebody doesn't understand the concept of an ultraportable.
Looks like many don't.

Will this "super laptop" be conducive for a college student who does word processing, browse the internet, have some photos/videos (nothing more than a couple gb), and an itunes library of 5 to 8 gb?
An ultra-portable is for those folks who have the $ to pay for portability and light weight solutions.

An ultra-portable is not for those who want a full featured laptop.

Unfortunately, these two concepts are mutually exclusive at this point in time.

amac4me
Dec 6, 2007, 08:11 PM
Exactly the reason why I still haven't upgraded my 12" pbG4 yet.

I know 2 owners of 12-inch PowerBooks that have not given them up. I spoke to one of them today and he's willing to buy a MacBook Pro if it comes in a size less than 15-inches.

mccldwll
Dec 6, 2007, 08:14 PM
I wouldn't get too excited if I were you. I would put Goldman's story right up there with the tooth fairy and easter bunny. One questionable source in Asia who knows about the iPhone, the iTouch, the ultraportable, AND the price point of the ultraportable. That's one well-informed dude. It came out of the financial sector, was given an extraordinary amount of play on cnbc, and was picked up by Rupert Murdoch owned Dow Jones. The object is to create volatility and impact the price of Apple's stock.

wizard
Dec 6, 2007, 08:27 PM
I don't know if I can wait yet another 5 months, I'm getting obsessed with buying one!

It is certainly a thing that I have to watch myself on, I sometimes have to pass the Apple store rather quickly. Not only is the constant talk about the current machine and the coming 3G machine maddening, the talk about the next software rev is hitting all cylinders. There the issue is rumors of features I want that are coming.

Disk mode, is one thing I want in my portable devices. It is just another little check box less on the acceptance list. Now If Apple could just get a few other things moving for the coming software update and I'd be hot to trot for this rev.

Dave

ckurowic
Dec 6, 2007, 08:42 PM
I don't know if I can wait yet another 5 months, I'm getting obsessed with buying one!

Why? I've brought up this point before. Why would you want a laptop with less functionality than a normal lap top but for $1,500? You have more money than me, man.

I wouldn't get too excited if I were you. I would put Goldman's story right up there with the tooth fairy and easter bunny. One questionable source in Asia who knows about the iPhone, the iTouch, the ultraportable, AND the price point of the ultraportable. That's one well-informed dude. It came out of the financial sector, was given an extraordinary amount of play on cnbc, and was picked up by Rupert Murdoch owned Dow Jones. The object is to create volatility and impact the price of Apple's stock.


FINALLY some logic to this forum.

Exactly the reason why I still haven't upgraded my 12" pbG4 yet.

Says who? You? Show me some quantitative data and maybe I'll half way believe you.

For some reason it did not reply to the correct post. I am replying to the guy who said there is tons of pent up demand for a 12 inch intel powered Apple portable.

SSDs have been used in subnotebooks/"ultra-portables" for 5+ years. Many subnotebooks from Panasonic, Sony, and other Japanese companies have SSDs, but they have been expensive.
The other major user of SSDs are military/industrial/Aerospace applications including laptops and embedded computers.



Flash SSDs are still at $10-15/GB.. 32GB is likely... maybe an upgrade to 64GB. But that will throw the price into the $2500+ range. About reliability, flash SSDs are VERY RELIABLE! Much more so than HDDs, especially the smaller/cheaper ones. No moving parts. The reliability/toughness is precisely why the military/aerospace industry has been using them for years...


See above



Flash SSDs *can* be much faster than a 2.5" 5400rmp drive .. and they can blow the 1.8" 4200rpm drives out of the water! And actually, SSDs do have a considerable advantage in power consumption. Ive seen
some testing benchmarks around the net. Looks to be >25% reduction in power usage.




Onscreen keyboard good for iPhone thumb-typing... as a replacement for a full size "regular" typing keyboard? Not so much. Seems like it would be very difficult to type on. (coming from an Iphone user)



Why on earth would you need to put all your music on a subnotebook?? Get a small 2.5" external drive to keep in your dorm or whatever. if you want a 64GB+ subnotebook, you better be a rich college kid.



Exactly...


512GB?? Hahahah. thats funny. Do you really need more than 32-64GB on a small laptop? What would you need to be on there that an external 2.5" 250GB drive couldn't hold? If USB is too slow, I'm sure Apple will put a Firewire 400 or 800 on there. Maybe an eSata?


That wouldn't be too difficult to do at all. Have a sync daemon on your laptop that waits until the home network becomes available then runs a synchronization program in the background. :)


Why in Gods name do you need all that storage? 1 GB equals 100 pickup truck loads of paper documents. Do you REALLY keep all that junk on your HD? Your are high man, sorry. Rarely do people need that much storage, ESPECIALLY in a ultra-portable computer that will NOT have the functionality of normal laptops. Wow. Go get a MBP, seriously, and some external HD's. Get a clue.

NYCMacFan
Dec 6, 2007, 08:58 PM
Apple offers build-to-order options for hard drives on most machines. This would be no different. The iPhone was simply marketed differently, more like an iPod than like a computer (which makes sense).

My note applied to the idea of showing off in January and selling in March that the author wrote about and not the notion of different options setups with build to order...

I agree with your point though.

tringo
Dec 6, 2007, 09:05 PM
I think that a touchscreen is guaranteed. Apple has become obsessed with making everything touch now. You should see all the patents they have on multi-touch devices!

So therefore I think it will be a tablet format, basically a big iPhone. Hey guys remember when you all said that a touchscreen phone wouldn't work?....

twoodcc
Dec 6, 2007, 09:07 PM
now i really wanna see this laptop. man, it's gonna be hard to resist....

Virgil-TB2
Dec 6, 2007, 09:27 PM
blame software companies then. the razzle dazzle of Vista and Leopard DO require a decent amount of processing power just to do tasks that were quite basic in in previous generations of the OS's ...I know what your trying to say here and I sort of agree, but I am not sure it's fair to have thrown Leopard in the same lot with the crapulence that is Vista and the slow, slow web pages of a horrible site like CNN.

First, I am typing this post on Leopard running on a six year old Mac G4 with almost no speed hit at all. Leopard is still eminently useable even on old hardware and relatively fast as well. As fast as Tiger was on the same machine anyway.

Secondly, if anyone is trying to push for faster web page loading and less crap like Flash, it's Apple and the Safari browser. Each version of Safari has been faster than the previous one IMO although the same can't be said for Explorer. Each version of Apple's home page is busier, more complicated, and has more scripting and stuff than the previous one, but they still manage to load in almost the same kind of time frame.

Virgil-TB2
Dec 6, 2007, 09:35 PM
SSDs have been used in subnotebooks/"ultra-portables" for 5+ years. .... Great summation.
Nice to know someone is thinking out there. :)

SwordOfHumanity
Dec 6, 2007, 10:09 PM
Errrr, i dunno if neones mentioned this already or not, im too lazy to read through 11 pages:o But new macbook pro's have been shipped to the bestbuy in vancouver already. They are labelled not to be sold until mid january. The size of the packaging suggests that they are the 15.4" macpro. Dunno if this helps:)

SirOmega
Dec 6, 2007, 10:15 PM
32GB will be entirely enough for an untraportable. I've got 60GB in my Rev A MacBook and get along just fine and I've got 15GB free, and I've got a bunch of movies and stuff I dont watch on here. I'm sure if Apple worked to strip down the OSX Install a bit (remove unused languages, etc) they could ship the drive with 20GB free.

Regardless, I'm sure Apple will offer a 64GB SSD upgrade for like $400 or so.