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amd4me
Dec 8, 2007, 03:55 AM
I was wondering If I will get full quality HD from my Xbox 360 with an older non HDCP compliant HDTV? I just wanted to check before I went and and bought the cables and stuff.
Thanks



Dagless
Dec 8, 2007, 04:12 AM
I believe it will work with games, but not with some HD-DVD films. I'm not entirely sure on this only that my monitor supports it and sparked a little dive into what it actually meant.

MacRumorUser
Dec 9, 2007, 02:29 AM
OK! Games are not HDCP encoded. So you will have no problem playing all your hi-def games.

HD-DVD's are not HDCP encoded. So you will have no problem playing your hi-def HD-DVD movies should you buy the attatchment.


So you have NO problems :) Just enjoy gaming.

amd4me
Dec 9, 2007, 04:29 PM
Sweet, So just stay away from bluray huh?

MacRumorUser
Dec 9, 2007, 04:32 PM
Sweet, So just stay away from bluray huh?

LOL! yeah but you shouldn't say that. I can hear a million footsteps of Sony fanboys kicking up a storm ;):D

P-Worm
Dec 10, 2007, 09:53 AM
You do have something to worry about.

Now, HD DVD is already on board with HDCP (although HD DVD looks like it's dying), and Blu-ray is expected to follow suit, since HDCP is already supported by many high-end HD TVs now in the market. Those that doubt Blu-ray's eventual support for HDCP should keep in mind that the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) recently began touting itself as more secure than HD DVD, adding BD+ and ROM-Mark as a compliment to AACS. HDCP is a reality of the future market.

Link (http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/hdcp-vista.ars)

Not only is HD DVD on board with HDCP, it jumped on before Blu-ray. Currently, I don't know of a single movie that supports this standard (I'm in the same boat as you. I have an HDTV that has component instead of HDMI). Let's just hope that the movie companies don't enforce this as it would cut out a large base of people that bought HD TVs more than three years ago.

P-Worm

MacRumorUser
Dec 10, 2007, 10:17 AM
^ Yeah it's true HD-DVD signed up to HDCP, but they do not use it and reports indicate it may be at least 2010 or later before they actually turn it on.

For the moment however it's a non-issue.



However should it become an issue in the future, you can buy one of these

http://www.hkmod.com/index.php?sid=867784547&t=sub_pages&cat=32

Which will add HDCP & HDMI to your existing setup. But certainly no need to panic now.

P-Worm
Dec 10, 2007, 10:26 AM
That's true. It's still a ways off before we need to worry. I'm in a tough spot because I bought an HD projector about 3.5 years back that only has component input. With a purchase as big is that, I can't afford to go out and get another one just to see an upgrade from 1080i to 1080p.

P-Worm

GFLPraxis
Dec 10, 2007, 01:05 PM
It's true that both Blu-ray and HD-DVD support HDCP but neither are using it yet.

Right now, everything's fine. You MIGHT have problems with movies in a couple of years. No problems with current movies or games now or in the future.

e˛Studios
Dec 10, 2007, 02:50 PM
It's true that both Blu-ray and HD-DVD support HDCP but neither are using it yet.

Right now, everything's fine. You MIGHT have problems with movies in a couple of years. No problems with current movies or games now or in the future.

BluRay requires it if you want to watch it in more than 480p ;) HD DVD has the ability to tighten down, I imagine if the format actually lasts (which I doubt it will) that HDCP will eventually be a requirement.

Ed

dejo
Dec 10, 2007, 02:53 PM
I was wondering If I will get full quality HD from my Xbox 360 with an older non HDCP compliant HDTV? I just wanted to check before I went and and bought the cables and stuff.
Are you planning on connecting via HDMI?

diamond.g
Dec 10, 2007, 03:58 PM
Um, AFAIK HDCP is HD Copy Protection. Which HD DVD and BD both use. What everyone seems to be talking about is ICT (image constraint token). That would restrict the resolution to under HD resolution if your TV didn't support HDCP or wasn't using the HDMI port.

The 360 doesn't use HDCP for games, only for the HD movies. Nor does it expect it to be there for games, when using the HDMI port. From what I understood about the PS3 it does actually look for HDCP handshake when using the HDMI port, even for games. But it is still able to output 720P/1080I over analog.

EDIT: did some searching, supposedly the PS3 wont play movies at all (or downscale them to 480p) if HDCP is missing over HDMI/DVI connection. Games will still work though.

P-Worm
Dec 10, 2007, 04:30 PM
This thread is a battleground of misinformation.

HDCP will only downconvert your movie if the movie calls for it. I have a PS3 and am sending the video over component cables and the video is definitely high definition.

P-Worm

diamond.g
Dec 10, 2007, 04:55 PM
This thread is a battleground of misinformation.

HDCP will only downconvert your movie if the movie calls for it. I have a PS3 and am sending the video over component cables and the video is definitely high definition.

P-Worm

The ICT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_Constraint_Token) flag is what does it. It is a function of the player not seeing HDCP in the display (via whatever connection you use). AFAIK, only other option is display no picture at all.

dejo
Dec 10, 2007, 05:14 PM
This thread is a battleground of misinformation.

HDCP will only downconvert your movie if the movie calls for it. I have a PS3 and am sending the video over component cables and the video is definitely high definition.
I believe that's because HDCP only works in conjunction with HDMI (hence my question to the OP earlier). HDCP and component-video are mutually-exclusive, AFAIK.

amd4me
Dec 10, 2007, 05:20 PM
I was under the impression that you need an HDCP TV to watch movies in hidef.
If you dont have one it will downgrade it to 480P.
So what is right, I have gotten three different stories.

amd4me
Dec 10, 2007, 05:20 PM
[QUOTE=dejo;4601198]Are you planning on connecting via HDMI?[/QUOTE
HDMI or component. My TV has both. WHich would be better?

dejo
Dec 10, 2007, 05:35 PM
I was under the impression that you need an HDCP TV to watch movies in hidef.
If you dont have one it will downgrade it to 480P.
So what is right, I have gotten three different stories.
You only need an HDCP TV to watch movies in high-def if you are using the HDMI connection. As for the downgrading, that depends on the device, I believe. Some may downgrade, others may display nothing. For example, the Playstation 3 user's guide states: "If a device that is not compatible with the HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) standard is connected to the system using an HDMI cable, video and/or audio cannot be output from the system."

HDMI or component. My TV has both. WHich would be better?
If your TV is not HDCP-compliant, connect via component. Then you avoid those downgrading/not-displaying-at-all issues.

MacRumorUser
Dec 10, 2007, 05:57 PM
I was under the impression that you need an HDCP TV to watch movies in hidef.
If you dont have one it will downgrade it to 480P.
So what is right, I have gotten three different stories.


All I can tell you is that I have the 360 HD-DVD player with 26 HD-DVD movies connected to a 42" philips LCD via Component and there is no trouble, all movies are outputted in glorious Hi Def.


So there you go.

GFLPraxis
Dec 10, 2007, 06:06 PM
BluRay requires it if you want to watch it in more than 480p ;) HD DVD has the ability to tighten down, I imagine if the format actually lasts (which I doubt it will) that HDCP will eventually be a requirement.

Ed

I thought it was a flag on the movie that the distributors can choose to turn on or off that controls the downscaling?

If not, my bad.

monkeytap
Dec 10, 2007, 10:31 PM
I imagine if the format actually lasts (which I doubt it will) that HDCP will eventually be a requirement.

Ed

yeah, along with region coding :-D

e˛Studios
Dec 11, 2007, 10:04 AM
I thought it was a flag on the movie that the distributors can choose to turn on or off that controls the downscaling?

If not, my bad.

Negative Ghostrider, its actually buit in to the hardware. All players will not output higher than 480p if HDCP is not enabled. If you use component instead of HDMI your max output resolution is restricted to 1080i.

Ed

GFLPraxis
Dec 11, 2007, 10:22 AM
My bad then :)

That's not so bad though; most devices with HDMI have HDCP IIRC, and those that don't will have component either way.

Dagless
Dec 11, 2007, 10:34 AM
HD confusion again it seems. They could have made this all nice and simple so even us nerds got it.

jaw04005
Dec 11, 2007, 12:25 PM
Negative Ghostrider, its actually buit in to the hardware. All players will not output higher than 480p if HDCP is not enabled.

There are two separate issues here that interact together. HDCP by itself is just an handshaking scheme that allows encrypted communication between one hardware device to another.

Image Constraint Token (ICT) is a "flag," that if enabled, would tell the player to reduce a full-resolution digital signal down to 540p.

HDMI devices are not required to support HDCP, and currently no known Blu-ray or HD DVD discs use ICT.

Therefore, as of Dec. 07, HDCP is roughly a non-issue except for high-definition disc playback in a PC environment. Of course, this is likely to change.

In a PC environment, an HDCP-compliant monitor and graphics card is required for Blu-ray and HD DVD playback from within Vista. This is an artificial requirement created by Cyberlink (PowerDVD), Corel/Intervideo (WinDVD) and Microsoft—as again, NO current Blu-ray or HD DVD discs have the Image Constraint Token (ICT) enabled.

From Wikipedia,

"Content providers for HD-DVD and Blu-ray media can set an Image Constraint Token (ICT) flag that will only output full-resolution digital signals using a digital HDCP connection. If an HDCP-enabled player is connected to a non-HDCP-enabled television set with a non-HDCP-compliant analog connection (VGA or Component), and the content is flagged, the player will output a downsampled 960x540 pixel signal."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP

If you use component instead of HDMI your max output resolution is restricted to 1080i.

That's not true. The XBOX 360's HD DVD player will output 1080p over component, VGA and HDMI. However, some HDTVs do not accept 1080p signals over component. That's why Microsoft offers a VGA cable, and of course HDMI (on more recent units).

"Users can expect 1080p upscaling immediately on current games and DVDs and native 1080p on compatible HD DVD titles, but Microsoft hasn't yet announced future games that will rock 1080p natively."

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/20/xbox-360-adds-1080p-hd-dvd-drive-for-november-17th-in-japan/

And,

"IGN: There are very few 1080p native HDTVs that accept 1080p via Component connections. The signal will only come in as 1080i and be de-interlaced back to 1080p. How is the 360's new 1080p support, in practical application, going to be any different than what was already possible?

Microsoft: We can offer 1080p support through both the VGA connection and the Component connection."

http://gear.ign.com/articles/735/735860p1.html

Nermal
Dec 11, 2007, 12:46 PM
In a PC environment, an HDCP-compliant monitor and graphics card is required for Blu-ray and HD DVD playback from within Vista.

Aha! THAT would explain why I could never get my HD DVDs to play under Vista, only under XP. Let's hope that when Apple finally gets around to releasing an HD DVD-compatible DVD player, it works the "XP way" and functions on the same hardware.

jaw04005
Dec 11, 2007, 04:24 PM
Aha! THAT would explain why I could never get my HD DVDs to play under Vista, only under XP. Let's hope that when Apple finally gets around to releasing an HD DVD-compatible DVD player, it works the "XP way" and functions on the same hardware.

Yup. Microsoft really caved over backwards for the content industry. I get trying to protect your content, but requiring HDCP-compliant monitors and video cards is excessive.

Apple has a unique advantage in that most of their shipping units are all-in-ones.

Notebooks and all-in-ones (iMac) are both currently exempt from Vista's (and Cyberlink and Corel/Intervideo) HDCP-required DRM scheme—allowing full playback of both Blu-ray and HD DVD (with capable hardware and graphic card drivers).

amd4me
Dec 13, 2007, 04:17 PM
Okay, so what exactly is the final word?
Misinformation much?

diamond.g
Dec 13, 2007, 04:58 PM
Okay, so what exactly is the final word?
Misinformation much?

jaw is right. It only matters for movies. Not games.