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MacRumors
Dec 10, 2007, 01:12 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

As rumors start to build for Macworld San Francisco 2008, the most consistent rumor appears to be one of an ultra-portable Apple notebook computer.

These rumors started back in March 2006 (http://www.macscoop.com/articles/2006/03/30/ultra-thin-12-inch-mac-book-pro-on-the-way) by MacScoop who indicated that "very reliable" sources had indicated that Apple was planning on releasing an "ultra-thin 12 inch Mac Book Pro". More confirmation came from an analyst, Benjamin Reitzes (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/06/15/apple-planning-ultra-portable/) in June, 2006 with expectations that an "ultra-portable" Mac could be delivered as early as Macworld San Francisco 2007. Reitzes also suggested that these new ultra-portables would use NAND flash memory, either in combination with a traditional hard drive or using NAND flash alone.

Indeed, earlier in 2006, Digitimes had first reported (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/01/05/apple-notebook-with-robson-caching/) that Apple and Intel were researching the use of NAND flash in portables to improve boot time and battery life. MacScoop later detailed (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/12/04/ultra-thin-12-macbook-pro/) the thin-laptop to be a $1700-$1800 12" MacBook Pro with dual core processor and still retain an optical drive.

Macworld San Francisco 2007, of course, came and went with no new ultra-portable, but in February, more claims (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/16/apple-sub-notebook-nearing-release/) emerged from Appleinsider confirming that Apple was working on a mini-MacBook "lighter and more compact than any other Mac portable Apple has put forth in recent years". These specs claimed that the new laptop would exclude a built-in optical drive and would indeed use NAND flash memory.

9to5mac added a report (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/21/slim-aluminum-macbooks-soon/) in September that an aluminum MacBook prototype had been spotted that was "considerably slimmer" than the current MacBook Pros, with a thinner bezel around the screen and "something strange about the touchpad".

Finally, as we approach 2008's Macworld, some more confident reports have emerged with Appleinsider now believing (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/12/ultra-portable-mac-expected-at-macworld-expo-2008/) that the new ultra-portable laptop will be released at Macworld as a 13" aluminum notebook with NAND flash, no optical drive, and LED backlit screens. Even CNBC now has their own sources claiming (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/06/3g-iphone-and-1500-super-laptop-in-2008/) that a 12" sub-portable MacBook Pro with Flash memory only (no hard drive) would be introduced and retail for around $1500 at Macworld.

Based on the confidence and number of reports, it seem very likely that some sort of ultra-portable laptop will be arriving from Apple in January. To sum up claims:

MacScoop: 12", Ultra-Thin, Optical Drive, Dual Core
Appleinsider: 13", aluminum, 50% lighter, Slim, NAND Flash, LED backlit, No Optical Drive
CNBC: 12", 50% Thinner, NAND Flash only (no HDD).
9to5mac: "something strange about the touchpad"

To be fair, MacScoop's reports were from a year ago, so details may have changed in the interim. It's also conceivable that Apple may have more than one product in the works that could explain some of the discrepancies.

To give some perspective on what might be capable, readers are reminded of a prototype Intel laptop (Metro) (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/05/24/worlds-thinnest-notebook-from-intel/) that was revealed in May of this year. The concept design was said to go into production near the end of 2007 and offered the following specs:

- 2.25 lbs
- 0.7 inches thick
- 14 hours battery life
- NAND Flash
- WiMax, Cellular, WiFi support

As a concept design with no regard to cost, all of these features may not be included in a theoretical Mac laptop, but it does provide an idea of what might be possible with current technology.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/10/apple-ultra-portable-macbook-rumor-roundup/)



queshy
Dec 10, 2007, 01:13 AM
Interesting post. Hopefully we will see that at MWSF...otherwise there will be a lot of complainers on the forums!

Apple will probably release something fantastic...but we all know what has happened in the past with "Rev A" computers...

basesloaded190
Dec 10, 2007, 01:17 AM
Interesting post. Hopefully we will see that at MWSF...otherwise there will be a lot of complainers on the forums!

Apple will probably release something fantastic...but we all know what has happened in the past with "Rev A" computers...


there will always be complainers on the forums no matter what. but yes this would be amazing for us and apple if they did something like this

Eduardo1971
Dec 10, 2007, 01:19 AM
As someone who needs a large hard drive on my current laptop (Macbook); may someone kindly inform me what sort of people would need this sort of ultra portable laptop (due the space limitation of current flash memory)?
Cheers.
:)

arn
Dec 10, 2007, 01:22 AM
As someone who needs a large hard drive on my current laptop (Macbook); may someone kindly inform me what sort of people would need this sort of ultra portable laptop (due the space limitation of current flash memory)?
Cheers.
:)

Someone with a 3G Cellular connection and Back-to-my-Mac?

Obviously people who need large drive space (video work or whatnot) would not want a NAND flash based Mac. But for those who deal with documents, it would probably be fine. Also, the possibility of everywhere internet and access to your home machine (Back-to-my-Mac) is interesting.

Note: there haven't been any real rumors that Apple would be introducing such a feature into this ultraportable, but would be nice.

arn

cthomet
Dec 10, 2007, 01:24 AM
very interesting indeed. i agree that we might be looking at several products in the works, because there are discrepancies. on one hand we are looking at an ultraportable mac with essentially full capabilities (optical drive, hdd + NAND, etc.) and on the other hand we are looking at something between an iphone and macbook. we will see, either way though, im excited

mag2001
Dec 10, 2007, 01:26 AM
If it's true I might have my credit card standing by......:cool:

iBunny
Dec 10, 2007, 01:27 AM
How would they do this with no optical drive? I dont like that.

What if you wanted to format and reinstall the OS? Are they going to include that on a thumb drive? What if you want to rip CD's with iTunes???

No Optical drive sounds like a dumb idea, in any computer. Even if you use it for ultra portability, and/or buisness, you would want a DVD player for downtime or whatever.

kinless
Dec 10, 2007, 01:29 AM
MacBook smackbook...I need that damn Mac Pro :D

My current 12" PowerBook G4 will suffice me until 10.6 or Nehalem or whatever the hell they have down the road

brguitarist
Dec 10, 2007, 01:29 AM
I'll probably wait for 2nd Gen, but sounds awesome :D
WiMax would be pretty sweet...

Darkroom
Dec 10, 2007, 01:29 AM
tablet

BWhaler
Dec 10, 2007, 01:29 AM
At this point, I just want Apple to put out quality products.

Sure, innovation is fun.

But the heat, bugs, fit and finish issues, and don't get me started on the displays, and other general quality problems are just getting brutal.

It is stressful to open a new Mac. You just don't know what you are going to get.

I would love to buy something like this to complement my 17", but the quality problems are just too brutal with Apple of late.

Yuppi
Dec 10, 2007, 01:39 AM
I think optical media are obsolete anyway. In my current thinkpad I use an additional battery pack instead of the optical drive and it makes by far more sense. I needed to switch to the optical drive like 2 times in the last year.

So yes, I think that baby is really cool. The reason they left out the optical drive might be more political than technical. They just did not want to have any moving parts, and a optical drive would break that.

I hope that means the next leopard will be on a USB stick :)

MacPhilosopher
Dec 10, 2007, 01:43 AM
I think what is missing from our recycled debate on the subject of "What good is an ultra-portable" is some data. What do people use their laptops for? How do current laptops not meet that need? How many people use a desktop at home and a portable outside of the home? Etc...

I, for one, use three different Macs: A Mini as a media station and basic filekeeping/communications system for the home, an new iMac 20" as a video and graphics production machine (and it can handle it), and my G4 Al 12" PB as my portable. While I do use my 12" AL PB for some video and graphics editing, it is not its current essential task. It is nice to have for on the fly tasks on the road, but I prefer to us the iMac. It really ends up being used as a portable communications and media device. If any new ultra-portable offered some graphics ability(i.e. ability to draw/sketch, or minor photo editing) than I would buy it. I think people that need to do higher end video or graphics work should really consider a MBP or an older PB like my 12". As for its ability to perform well as a communications/media device, what else could we hope for in an ultra-thin device?

queshy
Dec 10, 2007, 01:50 AM
I spent 2K on my mbp this august...once the new one comes out I can SO see myself selling it, even though I don't really need a smaller one (I find the size fine for my classes) - that's what you call an apple fanboy :) :D :p :cool:

ajhill
Dec 10, 2007, 01:53 AM
Obviously Apple would need some way to load the OS. Thumbdrives are cheap enough to offer hope. Also an external drive is not out of the question.

As to the debate over size limitations of Flash based storage; any new machine Apple produces would probably offer both flash based and HD storage. HD are small enough nowadays. But there I go again speculating on the speculation.

Given Apple's track record lately whatever they introduce is likely to be great.

I for one wouldn't miss lugging an optical drive around in my portable. If I needed to load something from DVD or CD I could share one of the drives from the network. But I kinda like the whole "Load the OS from thumbdrive" idea.

Don't worry guys, Steve's on it. And if he's taken this long to bring it out you can bet it's going to be fantastic. After all they took 3 years to bring the iPhone to market and it's a game changer.

Al

dojothemouse
Dec 10, 2007, 01:54 AM
Apple got a patent recently on a super low-profile optical drive that would be used by sleeping the laptop, turning it over, and opening up a door on the bottom.

All the rumors say "no optical" but this wouldn't necessarily look like an optical drive. Has there been any further mention of the bottom-loading optical drive?

queshy
Dec 10, 2007, 02:00 AM
I used my macbook pro's optical drive <5 times...once to install leopard, once office, once to reinstall tiger, etc..very rarely. I wouldn't mind the omission of the optical drive. As long as they can put in a core 2 duo, give it 2 gb ram standard, 64 gb SSD, I'd be happy. 32 is a little smallish...

djellison
Dec 10, 2007, 02:05 AM
Small 12 inch PC laptops with discreet graphics, optical drives, webcam, dual core etc have been on the market for a significant time.

All Apple are doing here is playing catch up. I"m sure if it comes it'll be great - but realistically, the response should be 'about time'.

Doug

Ja Di ksw
Dec 10, 2007, 02:24 AM
I use my optical drive all the time. . . . to play DVD's. . .

My question is how fast are these going to be? Will having flash memory really help that much for boot up time, etc? So far we have that they'll be slimmer than normal laptops, and maybe not optical drive, and probably have a better battery life. Are there going to be other differences?

boobooq88
Dec 10, 2007, 02:26 AM
Just speculation but...

What if they were to use NAND flash (16 gb or 32 gb or whatever) and use a 1.8" drive like the 80 GB they use in the iPod Classic?

wouldn't that be a good idea to do until larger flash drives are available?

TurboSC
Dec 10, 2007, 02:33 AM
This is one rumor roundup thread I'll be keeping an eye on.

From the general summary, if this laptop does materialize come MacWorld, it's going to be an instant hit for Apple.

What I fear is, because of its size, hopefully they've got the heat under control, and also I'm sure they learned a lot about structural integrity from the iPhone ( that thing is built like a rock )

Come on MacWorld!

:apple::apple::apple::apple:

MacPhilosopher
Dec 10, 2007, 02:37 AM
Small 12 inch PC laptops with discreet graphics, optical drives, webcam, dual core etc have been on the market for a significant time.

All Apple are doing here is playing catch up. I"m sure if it comes it'll be great - but realistically, the response should be 'about time'.

Doug

...for a mac fan. Well, you did say "...it'll be great." If, and when, Apple delves into this market it will leave the other companies wondering how they missed all of the innovations Apple brings into the category. You should know better than that. Apple doesn't play catch up, they play "do it right or don't play at all." Sometimes, that means waiting until the time (and technology) are right.

djellison
Dec 10, 2007, 02:39 AM
.the innovations Apple brings into the category.

Such as? Magsafe is nice (but I'm nervous about how long until the cable starts to fall apart - it already bulges a little). Maybe the innovation is not including a dvd writer in a laptop that is equipped with DVD making software.

I love my macbook - but I'm failing to see anything innovative about it. The magnetic latch is kind of good, but the MBP doesn't include that. They keyboard is odd and funky, but not an innovation.

Maybe they'll pull something spectacular out of the bag, but apart from the iPhone ( which has a list of flaws longer than any other leading music phone ) there is nothing they've done that is truely inovative since the Intel switch - it's all been comparatively underwhelming. Good stuff, but not the very best that it could possibly be given the premium price. There are so many things Apple could and should do with their product line to make them better - and they just don't do it - it's frustrating beyond words. Catchup is all they've been doing since the switch imho.

Doug

aswitcher
Dec 10, 2007, 02:43 AM
I really looking forward to this release.

Looking at the side of my MBP I wonder what ports this thing might have. My network port and dvi are pretty big. Maybe they will go hdmi.

AAPLpeer
Dec 10, 2007, 02:47 AM
im rather surprised no one has mentioned this. http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/09/wide-multitouch-touchpad-for-apple-laptops/
it seems only logical that they would integrate multi touch, being the hugely popular and successful fad it has become, not to mention that its the future of computer human interfacing. I also believe that the ipod touch/iphone will be integrated for symbiotic/coolness/halo-effect. not to mention that its a money maker. this supports that claim: http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/55/ipod-dock-on-mini-why-not-in-a-macbook
Finally there not going to be a need for tangible media in the future. with wimax/eyetv type innovations. Apple will one day be the number one name in print and television media.

TurboSC
Dec 10, 2007, 02:47 AM
...for a mac fan. Well, you did say "...it'll be great." If, and when, Apple delves into this market it will leave the other companies wondering how they missed all of the innovations Apple brings into the category. You should know better than that. Apple doesn't play catch up, they play "do it right or don't play at all." Sometimes, that means waiting until the time (and technology) are right.

true. Apple does stray into revolutionizing the way we do things, but there are some things it learns from others...

In the cell phone category, they've got the basics, but they've learned that without opening up development to 3rd parties was a bad idea... they're changing that come Feb. 3G support, inevitable really.

In the Computer business, Adapting to the Intel chipsets... that was a pretty big move and it changed everything. Bootcamp running windows on a Mac. That was a pretty big milestone. ( for me at least )

Apple just has a very professional suave way of "always knowing" or being "one step ahead"

I can only imagine how hectic and ridiculous it gets behind the scenes... all we see are pretty little gadgets and toys :P

mgauss
Dec 10, 2007, 02:57 AM
It would weight only .5 pounds more

It would be better for scratches

It would let Apple save face and sell it for $ 1100

AAPLpeer
Dec 10, 2007, 03:04 AM
I really looking forward to this release.

Looking at the side of my MBP I wonder what ports this thing might have. My network port and dvi are pretty big. Maybe they will go hdmi.

here is a picture from a patent of collapsable ports filed by the good folks at cupertino. http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=patentupportdoor2gifkd7.gif

dagamer34
Dec 10, 2007, 03:20 AM
I'd argue that Apple would probably put the OS on a 64GB SSD flash drive for speed and maybe stick a 80GB - 160GB 1.8" HDD in there for space to cover all of their bases. They'd also need to make sure that the OS turns off the HDD whenever it's not in use. It should be small enough to stick into a sub-notebook and maintain excellent battery life and with the optical drive probably gone, space won't be much of an issue.

clifflui
Dec 10, 2007, 03:27 AM
It would be very nice. First off, hard disk space doesn't matter, so long as you don't use it as a primary computer. Its great to bring around to presentations whilst not breaking your back / arms. Its great to bring to seminars / lectures / college. After all, text notes don't take up much space. And its great for travel. Right now, Samsung has 2kg notebooks with 15 inch screens and 6-hour battery life. It isn't good if Apple can't make light, powerful computers :apple:

gifford
Dec 10, 2007, 03:30 AM
Its the iBook of-course! Designed for those on the go. Its also a Browser/WIFI and has a focus on Widgets.
Sells for much cheaper than expected (as no keyboard, no optical drive, no etheret, no firewire, limited memory)
Designed to not replace your existing mac, but to complement it. Easily sync your notes/calendars/contacts/bookmarks with itunes. Maybe even built in 3G, its gotta happen sometime, but removable like the front page headline on Spymac a few years back (which incidentally i wrote). Where possible, data is encouraged to be stored online, hence the focus on widgets.
A deal with a major high-street store will allow you to easily purchase books/music 'on the go'.

babboxy
Dec 10, 2007, 03:36 AM
MAC PRO FIRST :mad: then we talk about gadgets

Sijmen
Dec 10, 2007, 03:37 AM
I see some potential here. I'm thinking about buying an iMac in the near future. Then I'll still have my PowerBook 12" for the on-the-road stuff. When it dies, I could replace it with the ultraportable :)

miniConvert
Dec 10, 2007, 03:50 AM
There's so much demand for this. I've been expecting it ever since the move to Intel was announced. On the one hand I'm frustrated that it has taken this long, assuming Apple have been working on it. On the other, recent advances in technology really do allow for a fantastic new addition to the Apple notebook range.

Here's to hoping they finally flesh out the notebook range.

DMann
Dec 10, 2007, 03:57 AM
Interesting post. Hopefully we will see that at MWSF...otherwise there will be a lot of complainers on the forums!

Apple will probably release something fantastic...but we all know what has happened in the past with "Rev A" computers...

I'll take a supersize iPhone-- to go!

Gvon42
Dec 10, 2007, 04:07 AM
I'm thinking there will be two models: A simpler one with just flash, targeted for internet use, documents, and simple graphic things. Another one with both flash and a hard disk, a premium model with more storage and powerful graphics capabilities.

It would be cool if it came with an optical drive that was detachable: you would have it for when you need it (making it a little extra bulky), but 9 out 10 times you would leave it at home.

As for multitouch, there is, in my opinion, only one correct way for Apple to integrate multitouch into a laptop. Where you would normally have a keyboard and touchpad, replace that with a touchscreen (like a Nintendo DS). Make both screens multitouch. The device could fold itself shut like a regular laptop, or close like a tablet with one screen out, for simple tasks like web browsing. For more complicated tasks, like video editing, sound mixing, and 3d modeling you could have both screens available, giving you plenty of room for display and touch sensitive controls. To use as a desktop, the device would fold so it can stand up like a monitor (or two monitors), then you would attach a keyboard and mouse.

All of the hardware for this kind of device is already within Apple's reach. The question is if Apple is ready to release the software interface needed to make such a device truly awesome.

simonelliott
Dec 10, 2007, 04:14 AM
The Asus EeePC is already having a huge effect in UK schools. Everyone I speak to is looking at it with a view to one per pupil. This is the ultra portable that people are talking about here.

At $400 / £200 for the EeePC, Apple have to release something like a giant iPod Touch with proper software (iWork Lite?) at not much more than this ($500 / £250) to compete or they will lose a big chunk of the education market.

Simon at www.thefreemac.com

redsox
Dec 10, 2007, 04:14 AM
I'll take a supersize iPhone-- to go!

Quick dumb question.

I have a MBP that is about 3 months old. yes, I checked the rumors before buying and used the guide. Anyway, I get a lot of use out of it for audio, no problem, it seems like it can really handle a lot of virtual instruments and plug-ins so my question is, will this cut the feet out of the MBP line? I know the new penyron chips should be killer but don't expect them anytime too soon.

I guess I am asking, would it be wise to sell before the San Fran date, expecting some sort of great upset/update that makes these slow in comparison? To be fair, I know some audio pros that make a living using pro tools and a Power Book (G4) with no problems.

I guess I would be happy either way, just wondering what a fair price would be, as is, and iLife or with:

•Logic 8
•Final Cut
•CS 3 (cousin works for adobe)
•iWork 08
•AppZapper
• 4 GB Ram

Thanks.

Probably get a mac pro when they update. (Lord Willing)

Guess am worried about shelf life, yet if people are still using G4's, this MBP should last a little while. Thank you.

Mackan
Dec 10, 2007, 04:16 AM
I wouldn't count too much on battery life for a small new ultra thin laptop, unless you hook it up with a giant battery in the back as usual... which makes it not so light and small anymore... And then the battery life is only measured when the computer is doing nothing, and ends up to be around 3 hours in real world situation, as always.

redsox
Dec 10, 2007, 04:17 AM
The Asus EeePC is already having a huge effect in UK schools. Everyone I speak to is looking at it with a view to one per pupil. This is the ultra portable that people are talking about here.

At $400 / £200 for the EeePC, Apple have to release something like a giant iPod Touch with proper software (iWork Lite?) at not much more than this ($500 / £250) to compete or they will lose a big chunk of the education market.

Simon at www.thefreemac.com

That's interesting, especially since Asus is the maker of the motherboards in the macs, at least I think they are.

JonasLondon
Dec 10, 2007, 04:36 AM
I'd argue that Apple would probably put the OS on a 64GB SSD flash drive for speed and maybe stick a 80GB - 160GB 1.8" HDD in there for space to cover all of their bases. They'd also need to make sure that the OS turns off the HDD whenever it's not in use. It should be small enough to stick into a sub-notebook and maintain excellent battery life and with the optical drive probably gone, space won't be much of an issue.

Agree, I'd rather have a "portable optical drive with me sometimes" than a "250 GB portable FW400 hd constantly". I'd still have the 50 GB WB Passport when travelling for backups, but the most important thing is: I would love one of these machines, and pretty most certainly buy one immediately.

I can already picture the various coffee places filled with people using this baby Apple notebook beauty!

Only one long vacation to go, and I'm ready to order right after the San Francisco party! :-)

JonasLondon
Dec 10, 2007, 04:38 AM
MAC PRO FIRST :mad: then we talk about gadgets

Now, I just have to +1 that! :-)


Edit: bring 'em on together - WHAT A SWEET TEAM!! and ouch, there goes the budget early next year...

Schtumple
Dec 10, 2007, 05:10 AM
Now, I just have to +1 that! :-)


Edit: bring 'em on together - WHAT A SWEET TEAM!! and ouch, there goes the budget early next year...

I 2nd, deciding between a macbook pro or mac pro for uni, christ, I'll be the mega nerd of the class :o

MikeDTyke
Dec 10, 2007, 05:12 AM
I really looking forward to this release.

Looking at the side of my MBP I wonder what ports this thing might have. My network port and dvi are pretty big. Maybe they will go hdmi.

What about this little number?

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/08/16/apple_designing_collapsable_connection_receptacle_for_ultra_portable_systems.html

Marvy
Dec 10, 2007, 05:13 AM
The Asus EeePC is already having a huge effect in UK schools. Everyone I speak to is looking at it with a view to one per pupil. This is the ultra portable that people are talking about here.

At $400 / £200 for the EeePC, Apple have to release something like a giant iPod Touch with proper software (iWork Lite?) at not much more than this ($500 / £250) to compete or they will lose a big chunk of the education market.

Simon at www.thefreemac.com

I was thinking the same thing. I am currently interested in buying an EeePC, but thought I'd wait to see what Apple has to offer. However, at the current rumored specs, I don't see what could justify such a price difference. Sure, a larger screen than the EeePC would be nice, but for around $1000 more?

Schtumple
Dec 10, 2007, 05:23 AM
I was thinking the same thing. I am currently interested in buying an EeePC, but thought I'd wait to see what Apple has to offer. However, at the current rumored specs, I don't see what could justify such a price difference. Sure, a larger screen than the EeePC would be nice, but for around $1000 more?

You can put Leopard on it you know?

It's illegal though

Marx55
Dec 10, 2007, 05:23 AM
We need tons for our University, but it should be much smaller. 6-inch or so. The FULL Mac OS X 10.5.x experience-computer in your hand and in your pocket. Full wireless computerless NATIVE Keynote and PowerPoint presentations. The ultimate presentation remote. Huge halo effect on the corporate, education and domestic markets. Boosts Mac market share to 10% worldwide!!!

mward333
Dec 10, 2007, 05:28 AM
It would weight only .5 pounds more

It would be better for scratches

It would let Apple save face and sell it for $ 1100

I agree completely with mgauss!

GekkePrutser
Dec 10, 2007, 05:44 AM
As someone who needs a large hard drive on my current laptop (Macbook); may someone kindly inform me what sort of people would need this sort of ultra portable laptop (due the space limitation of current flash memory)?
Cheers.
:)

Maybe someone who does not need a lot of disk space and doesn't feel like lugging a full-size laptop around?

Seriously, there is really a big market for ultramobile. I've currently got an EEEPC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASUS_Eee_PC) myself with 4GB disk space and that's plenty for emailing, websurfing and editing documents on the road. Of course it's not a desktop replacement, but it's nice and handy on the road for those basic computer needs and much more convenient than a smartphone when you really need to do something.

I'd *love* to have a Mac this size. Too bad though the pricing will be way out there if the rumours are correct - the EEEPC is only 299 (euro or dollar depending on your region). That would make the ultrasmall Mac 5 times as expensive. But the other manufacturers (such as sony) that make laptops that size charge even more so I guess it's ok.

50548
Dec 10, 2007, 05:44 AM
Interesting post. Hopefully we will see that at MWSF...otherwise there will be a lot of complainers on the forums!

Apple will probably release something fantastic...but we all know what has happened in the past with "Rev A" computers...

"Rev. A"? Please explain.

So far we have seen astounding successes with the iMac (all versions), the iPhone (much more than any other "smartphone" out there), the iPod and many other versions of Macs.

We whine too much, because all stats show that Apple products, even in their first versions, are way more reliable than any other vendor in the IT industry. Apart from some versions of the iBook and the Cube itself, pretty much everything else launched in the recent years by Apple was great and well-received.

And don't forget: those with issues will ALWAYS scream and complain; the satisfied millions will remain quiet...:rolleyes:

GregA
Dec 10, 2007, 06:02 AM
I'd argue that Apple would probably put the OS on a 64GB SSD flash drive for speed and maybe stick a 80GB - 160GB 1.8" HDD in there for space to cover all of their bases. They'd also need to make sure that the OS turns off the HDD whenever it's not in use. It should be small enough to stick into a sub-notebook and maintain excellent battery life and with the optical drive probably gone, space won't be much of an issue.
Most computers attempt to achieve the same feature set, in a different package. Apple is a rarity in that it likes to break molds. A small hard disk will have a huge number of people saying "who the hell would want that", and another large group of people saying "wow... so small... and yet, this does what I need".

In fact, in terms of breaking the mold, I sometimes wonder if an Apple ultraportable would more likely be based on extending the iPhone design (a 12 inch screen, add a keyboard and the iLife/iWork suite), rather than simplifying the MacBook design.

As someone who needs a large hard drive on my current laptop (Macbook); may someone kindly inform me what sort of people would need this sort of ultra portable laptop (due the space limitation of current flash memory)?

Some people need a large hard drive, some don't. Many don't realise they don't need a large hard drive.

I think to get away with 64GB (or 32!), Apple would need to somewhat redefine the way we work with out data. For instance, if we're going to work with iPhoto, iTunes etc - I believe it's crucial that the laptop could have a subset of our iPhoto/iTunes. Just as your AppleTV and iPod can sync only some playlists & albums, and update later ... an ultraportable would need to be able to sync a subset of music & photos from your master library. We'd also need a subset of our working documents.

There are several ways Apple could do this
1) have a 'main' Mac with all your data - connect locally and via "Back to my Mac".
2) Bundle 100GB of iDisk storage with the ultraportable. Store everything at Apple!
3) Leave an external firewire disk at home/work with most of your data (perhaps plug it into your Airport for a "Back to my Disk")
4) Store everything on an iPod Classic, and sync from the iPod to the portable instead of the other way around.
5) a hybrid of the above might be a home media/data server

It could be quite functional. It'll be very interesting to watch!

twoodcc
Dec 10, 2007, 06:08 AM
i really hope this gets released next month :apple:

LuciaSpina
Dec 10, 2007, 06:21 AM
...so, I was going to get a Mac Book for Christmas (2G RAM, 250G HD), a mac friend advised me that even though I love the sleek, silver look of the MacBook PRO that it was much more computer than I really need as all I do is internet, listen to music, watch a DVD here and there, and do some basic word processing. And I am really looking forward to all the fun iphoto features for slideshows and dvds.

ANYHOO! Then he tells me about this new super small 12" flash-drive mac. From what I was reading on the site, it seems like it's more of an accessory to hook up to your home computer. Would I be better off getting an iMac to have at home and then purchasing this new mini laptop when it comes out?

And, if everything runs on a flash drive, am I going to have to be carrying around all sorts of flash drives with my house keys? I also have a 250GB external hard drive, does that help anything? Confused, please advise.

goosnarrggh
Dec 10, 2007, 06:25 AM
How would they do this with no optical drive? I dont like that. What if you wanted to format and reinstall the OS? Are they going to include that on a thumb drive?
Every time this topic comes up, somebody asks that question. Ideally, the answer would be that the machine comes with an external USB or FW optical drive that you can leave at home, and save for the occasional times that you actually need it.

What if you want to rip CD's with iTunes???
Remember, for most people, an ultramobile like this wouldn't be a primary computer, it'd be a 2nd or 3rd supplemental device. So you wouldn't often *need* to do things like ripping CDs etc with it. You'd use it specifically in situations where you need reasonably full-featured productivity and connectivity applications, but otherwise attributes like extreme compactness and low weight take precedence over all other considerations.

Seriously, there is really a big market for ultramobile. I've currently got an EEEPC myself with 4GB disk space and that's plenty for emailing, websurfing and editing documents on the road. Of course it's not a desktop replacement, but it's nice and handy on the road for those basic computer needs and much more convenient than a smartphone when you really need to do something.

I'd *love* to have a Mac this size. Too bad though the pricing will be way out there if the rumours are correct - the EEEPC is only 299 (euro or dollar depending on your region). That would make the ultrasmall Mac 5 times as expensive. But the other manufacturers (such as sony) that make laptops that size charge even more so I guess it's ok.
It is possible to get Leopard running on the EEEPC 4 GB model. You have to omit all the optional components like international language support, printer drivers, X11, XCode etc, and preparation for installation isn't for the faint of heart (for example, you need to create a custom installation image with a modified kernel to remove its SSE3 dependencies).

GregA
Dec 10, 2007, 06:27 AM
...so, I was going to get a Mac Book for Christmas (2G RAM, 250G HD),

simple rule.... don't buy Apple stuff for Christmas. Get an IOU or a Gift Voucher... wait till the MacWorld announcements, then you'll have the answers to your questions and probably some better hardware to choose from.

Foxglove9
Dec 10, 2007, 06:48 AM
It's good to be excited about new Mac hardware again, I can't wait to see this new machine!

AppleMojo
Dec 10, 2007, 06:50 AM
If it's true I might have my credit card standing by......:cool:

Exactly! I was going to have your credit card standing by too. ;-)

ericmooreart
Dec 10, 2007, 06:54 AM
No optical drive makes no sense... Unless you can buy software through itunes. February sdk? Hmmmm:rolleyes:

My prediction:
13" Macbook Led screen and or Mini Core Duo 32-64 gigs NAND memory (shared GMA 3000 or better video). Optical drive, USB 2 Firewire, Wifi, Bluetooth. Target price 899 and 599. Available in March. Basically an ipod Touch on steroids

Wish list:
Radeon graphics
Built SD card reader

koobcamuk
Dec 10, 2007, 06:56 AM
No optical drive makes no sense... Unless you can buy software through itunes. February sdk? Hmmmm:rolleyes:

My prediction:
13" Macbook Led screen and or Mini Core Duo 32-64 gigs NAND memory (shared GMA 3000 or better video). Optical drive, USB 2 Firewire, Wifi, Bluetooth. Target price 899 and 599. Available in March. Basically an ipod Touch on steroids

Wish list:
Radeon graphics
Built SD card reader

Prices are off. iPod touch on steroids? You think multi touch and NAND memory in an ultraportable notebook can be that cheap?

Card readers are fugly and would need to have CF and SD at least, which would require two slots.

137489
Dec 10, 2007, 06:58 AM
Interesting post - but these rumors have been going on forever. I do not know too many fans of Tablet notebooks and with wide screen, well the size of Dell computers are the size of thin desk tops - still take up a way too much desk space and a way too big to lug around. I need something with power, all my ports, and an optical drive as I back everything up on CD's/DVD's and need to make Cd's/DVD's to share data (jump drives are still too small and expensive when dealing with video). If the size is as comparable as my Dell XPS M1210 or the size of the new Dell Wedges - would be great. My preference on specs:

1gb - 4gb ram
160 -200gb drive
3-4 USB, VGA/DVI, Firewire, Modem, LAN (ethernet), audio in/out ports. Must be built in and not something that plugs into a USB.
DVD+-R/DL
Wifi & Bluetooth
Docking Station where I could put in an external hard drive and make use of external mice, keyboards, display, etc.

You can leave off all the other buttons like mute, volume controls, stop, skip track, etc - Dell positions them on the front and I am forever hitting them. I have seen a few break off and missing on some of my friend's PC laptops. 12-13 inch screen is good enough for me. Anything else is either too small or just a waste. If I needed a larger screen I would hookup an external so I could really zoom in when editing photos. And I need a real docking station, not one that plugs into a USB, as running multiple devices (keyboard, mouse, screen, etc) through 1 USB slot slows down performance.

If I could get this, then I could kiss my Dell and my Media Center goodbye forever. You can also leave off the PCIMCIA card slot also, now with everything being built in - no one really uses it anymore, unless you buy cellular internet service from verizon or sprint - which to me is a waste unless you are driving down the road using your computer. Most places offer free wifi now.

I WAS the one
Dec 10, 2007, 07:00 AM
How would they do this with no optical drive? I dont like that.

What if you wanted to format and reinstall the OS? Are they going to include that on a thumb drive? What if you want to rip CD's with iTunes???

No Optical drive sounds like a dumb idea, in any computer. Even if you use it for ultra portability, and/or buisness, you would want a DVD player for downtime or whatever.

Remember what others said about no floppy drive on new iMacs?

welcome to iEvolution 2.0

AppleMojo
Dec 10, 2007, 07:00 AM
"Rev. A"? Please explain.

So far we have seen astounding successes with the iMac (all versions), the iPhone (much more than any other "smartphone" out there), the iPod and many other versions of Macs.

We whine too much, because all stats show that Apple products, even in their first versions, are way more reliable than any other vendor in the IT industry.

I am 50/50 on the whole Revision A issue, mind you I was against it just weeks ago.

I am on my 5th new iMac. 4 of my 24" Aluminum iMac's have had various issues from bad backlights to bad hard drive fans.

I know there are millions of satisfied users, but at the same time the chances of me getting this many bad machines is rare unless those Apple guys kick my box a few good times before they bring it out.

Even AppleCare and the local Apple Store was scratching their heads and apologizing for the issues and kept assuring me that this was not normal.

I understand how this could just be bad luck, but regardless it hurt my perfect idealistic view of Apple a little.

Although, now that I think about it. Those Apple guys would just kick my Revision B iMac's too! Those rats!

koobcamuk
Dec 10, 2007, 07:02 AM
...so, I was going to get a Mac Book for Christmas (2G RAM, 250G HD), a mac friend advised me that even though I love the sleek, silver look of the MacBook PRO that it was much more computer than I really need as all I do is internet, listen to music, watch a DVD here and there, and do some basic word processing. And I am really looking forward to all the fun iphoto features for slideshows and dvds.

ANYHOO! Then he tells me about this new super small 12" flash-drive mac. From what I was reading on the site, it seems like it's more of an accessory to hook up to your home computer. Would I be better off getting an iMac to have at home and then purchasing this new mini laptop when it comes out?

And, if everything runs on a flash drive, am I going to have to be carrying around all sorts of flash drives with my house keys? I also have a 250GB external hard drive, does that help anything? Confused, please advise.

No no - flash drive will be internal - nothing on your keychain.

"standard" computers use a hard drive that spins - Flash memory is solid state - that's the difference.

As for purchase - wait to see what comes out and make your mind up :)

An iMac and this might be a good combo - but if you don't like the new device (which might not happen) then choose between a MacBook Pro and the MacBook. I prefer the Pro, but it is faster than what you need (MacBook is fine). You'd be paying for screen, speed and the looks/casing.

deathshrub
Dec 10, 2007, 07:04 AM
MAC PRO FIRST :mad: then we talk about gadgets

I AGREE. :mad:

I want to give you my money, Apple. :(:confused:

ericmooreart
Dec 10, 2007, 07:10 AM
Prices are off. iPod touch on steroids? You think multi touch and NAND memory in an ultraportable notebook can be that cheap?

On the lower end of 32 gigs yes it can be that cheap. From 8 to 16 gigs on the Touch was only a 100 dollar increase. Add in less materials and moving parts then current machines. A touch pad instead of keyboard. No removable battery. Production cost drop.

A jailbroken Touch can run some amazing things. If it had a core duo processor...

ChiltonWebb
Dec 10, 2007, 07:10 AM
I really don't get why more Mac users aren't *demanding* a Tablet Mac. Of all the demographics out there, I'd expect those in the graphics industry to 'get' the benefits of a Tablet Mac, and the Mac market is still closely tied to graphics.

I have a friend with a Tablet PC, and every damned time he flips that screen around and starts drawing on it, I get envious. So I'm hoping for a Tablet Mac.

-Chilton

LeviG
Dec 10, 2007, 07:16 AM
well I think its more than conceivable that a 11-12" widescreen ultraportable can be made easily enough.

Sony do the tz series - 11" led lcd, 1GHz dual core ulv c2d, upto 7 hours of battery (I think theres an extended battery for 11 hours), option of ssd drive and a built in optical drive - however the price is £1300+

goosnarrggh
Dec 10, 2007, 07:19 AM
A jailbroken Touch can run some amazing things. If it had a core duo processor...
... It would eat up its (non-removable) battery approximately 100 times faster. That's before you deal with the increased power demand of the larger screen.

137489
Dec 10, 2007, 07:24 AM
while writing my last post, I was looking at my Dell XPS M1210. Reposition the layout of the ports, get rid of the useless card reader and MCMCIA card slot, Expand the screen size to go close to the edge of the lid padding bubbles, you could have a nice 14 inch screen and still save about 1/4 inch in thickness (and keep your tray-loading drive - I say that because of other threads that point out problems with media sizes and slot loading). The whole thickness of the bottom part of the laptop would be the size of the tray loading CD drive.

Still nice and slim, still have all the features and a bigger screen. This is do-able and the XPS m1210 is not all that heavy. Plus you would still have the big cooling slot on the size with the fan exhaust.

I think Apple should buy a few of the top-of-the-line thinest notebooks and come up with a new design to blow-away what is already out there in the PC market place, without sacrificing features. Couple that with Apple's already superior OS and lower price applications - you have your once and for all notebook that is a powerful as your desktop and is small enough for the person on the go. If the IPhone is any indication - this is what we need. However I still need a keyboard and my drives. I am not a fan of typing on a screen (I hit too many of the wrong keys.

ericmooreart
Dec 10, 2007, 07:36 AM
... It would eat up its (non-removable) battery approximately 100 times faster. That's before you deal with the increased power demand of the larger screen.

Agreed. But put that same technology in a Macbook with 120v power and a battery 20 times bigger

akadmon
Dec 10, 2007, 07:38 AM
I'm fine with this, so long as Apple updates the current Macbook Pro line at the same time. A user replaceable hd is all I'm asking for, though s redesigned keyboard would be fine too (get rid of all that wasted space on the sides and use it for a numbers pad).

jonswan
Dec 10, 2007, 07:41 AM
I'm as fascinated by this as the next man, but will this new super Mac have a working wireless networking facility? Right now, Leopard is all over the place: sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and I've given up looking at the why and the wherefores as life is just too short. So for the moment at least, Apple is in the doghouse and I will not be buying the latest delicious piece of hardware.

Tymmz
Dec 10, 2007, 07:54 AM
I really hope the rumours of a ultra portable become true.

My ageing PB needs a replacement next year when AppleCare runs out.

telegix
Dec 10, 2007, 08:02 AM
Reasons why I don't think there will be a flash disk in this notebook? Well, 128gb costs $5000 right now, so doubt they can offer that.. The only thing I could see here is some innovative optical drive built in and nand flash to make it boot faster..

akadmon
Dec 10, 2007, 08:08 AM
Reasons why I don't think there will be a flash disk in this notebook? Well, 128gb costs $5000 right now, so doubt they can offer that.. The only thing I could see here is some innovative optical drive built in and nand flash to make it boot faster..

I too think this thing must have a flash/mechanical hd combo to be a viable computer (as opposed to a glorified iPhone/PDA). Anything less than 160 GB is absurd these days.

evilyankeefan
Dec 10, 2007, 08:17 AM
Toshiba just announced a 126GB SSD drive:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/12/10/toshiba.solid.state.drives/

1st quarter of next year.

GekkePrutser
Dec 10, 2007, 08:21 AM
It is possible to get Leopard running on the EEEPC 4 GB model. You have to omit all the optional components like international language support, printer drivers, X11, XCode etc, and preparation for installation isn't for the faint of heart (for example, you need to create a custom installation image with a modified kernel to remove its SSE3 dependencies).

Yeah I gave that a try as well just to see how OS X would behave on such a small laptop. It worked, but that's about all :) There were so many hardware-related issues that it was just cool for the novelty 'Wow MacOS running on something so small!!' effect but the usability was zero. Some of the serious issues included: No LAN or WiFi support (so no networking at all), random freezes, weird timebase problems. I had to plug paperclips into the VGA port to just get it to boot.

The main reason why I love my Macs so much is because everything 'just works'. I don't want to run a hacked version with all the issues that come with it (not even to mention the legal ones) I just want a real mac :D

It did make me realize though that a mac in such a form factor would be extremely useful. If Apple would make a small, limited-but-cheap laptop like the EEE I would buy it in a heartbeat. Even if it was up to 800 euro or so.

But the rumored specs and price about this latest ultramobile are overkill for me. I don't need it to do everything that my desktop can do on the road, and it's too expensive to carry around carelessly (the EEE is 300 euro, I can break it or have it stolen 5 times for the price of the ultramobile macbook).

But maybe the new ultramobile will spawn a whole range of small laptops including a budget/basic one. I won't give up hope! :)

iMJustAGuy
Dec 10, 2007, 08:23 AM
I am so excited! I can't wait for MWSF. The ultra-portable is the exactly what i have been waiting for! How bad would that be if there was no ultra-portable released and that was just a rumor:eek:

iMJustAGuy
Dec 10, 2007, 08:25 AM
How would they do this with no optical drive? I dont like that.

What if you wanted to format and reinstall the OS? Are they going to include that on a thumb drive? What if you want to rip CD's with iTunes???

No Optical drive sounds like a dumb idea, in any computer. Even if you use it for ultra portability, and/or buisness, you would want a DVD player for downtime or whatever.

external USB drives are very cheap and compact these days, and you shouldnt have to carry it with you as it would only be for installing programs like office and such.;)

thies
Dec 10, 2007, 08:40 AM
Guess it comes down to price. If its really shipping for 1500 or 1600 I might pick one up once the second revision hits. otherwise I'll just stick to macbooks. Also curious what they plan as a GPU, if it ends up being an intel integrated job again I'll pass.

EagerDragon
Dec 10, 2007, 08:59 AM
In about 35 days we will know if is true or vapors.

kornyboy
Dec 10, 2007, 08:59 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

How would they do this with no optical drive? I dont like that.

What if you wanted to format and reinstall the OS? Are they going to include that on a thumb drive? What if you want to rip CD's with iTunes???

No Optical drive sounds like a dumb idea, in any computer. Even if you use it for ultra portability, and/or buisness, you would want a DVD player for downtime or whatever.

People also said that it was a dumb idea to get rid of the floppy drive. I'm sure there will be a way to address all of the concerns that you mentioned. Something clever I'm sure.

CommodityFetish
Dec 10, 2007, 09:14 AM
Well, I don't want to lug around an unused optical drive anymore. (I'll take an external one, thanks)

AND I don't have the cash to buy two computers. So I want this thing to work as my primary (only!) laptop, and that means a decent size hard drive, flash or no flash.

Sounds like I may have to wait 6 months until the Macbooks lose their internal optical drives (! :rolleyes:)

Or I could get an iPod classic which has decent storage capacity and carry it with me for the music collection, and overflow storage.

I can't use "back to my mac" if it's my only mac! I want to plug this thing into a large external monitor when I'm home, not have to fuss with synching files, however elegant that can be made.

mr.fancypants
Dec 10, 2007, 09:14 AM
If it's coming at MacWorld, seems like we should start seeing leaked photos anytime now.

If Apple legal has them taken down, we'll know if they're real or not.

QCassidy352
Dec 10, 2007, 09:16 AM
well, the various predictions agree about just about nothing. So I guess we're just going to have to wait and see

danjns
Dec 10, 2007, 09:27 AM
what i'd love to see is a macbook DS

think about it

with the multi touch technology they have now with the iphone. a laptop that changes it's keyboard area depending on the program your in. that would be awesome.

NAND comes up to 128GB which is enough, if not just put 2 in :D

it would need to be a pro to deal with the graphical issues with the dual touch screen. it would just be so cool cos you could hold it like a book or a laptop and the sensors would switch like an iphone.

it would be expensive but i'd buy one!

plus i'd love to see a sim card slot like the iphone so that i can take out my sim from my phone and use it in my mac to get the internet connection on the go. (or thethering from the iphone)

this could be the biggest leap in portable computing, dont let us down Steve!

and if your going to... employ me and i'll make good groundbreaking macs for you!

Dagless
Dec 10, 2007, 09:29 AM
I'm picturing something inbetween an iPhone/iPod Touch and MacBook Pro.

Aka my ideal device! I hope this is as good as it sounds. I was planning on buying both seperate products but if they bridge that with this ultra portable then I'll be very happy.

In about 35 days we will know if is true or vapors.

I think there's no doubt that it's real. We just don't know exactly what it is.

Hope it's N-band too.

Wonder with all these conflicting reports Apple are running a canary trap (or whatever they're called)?

Asar
Dec 10, 2007, 09:38 AM
i really hope one really comes out this time. but $1500 is kinda steep, dont know if i believe that price, especially if its a flash hard drive.

twoodcc
Dec 10, 2007, 09:39 AM
well, the various predictions agree about just about nothing. So I guess we're just going to have to wait and see

yeah i know. i wonder about the graphics card also

DaBrain
Dec 10, 2007, 09:46 AM
I was thinking the same thing. I am currently interested in buying an EeePC, but thought I'd wait to see what Apple has to offer. However, at the current rumored specs, I don't see what could justify such a price difference. Sure, a larger screen than the EeePC would be nice, but for around $1000 more?

We all have different needs and desires--))) I should be getting my eee 1 Gig Ram and 8 Gig HD this wednesday. I decided not to wait any longer. I'll play with this little Linux portable, use it's PDA functions and Ebook reader, learn some more linux and have some fun at a real decent price. I ordered`the white one to match my 1st gen iMac intel.

Then I'll read about the reviews when apple releases these rumored ultraportables and then I will probally purchase a new apple laptop. But ya never know things may change my mind. Time will tell. Until then IM gonna have some fun with my new geek device--)) :D

GSMiller
Dec 10, 2007, 09:47 AM
Well, people said Apple was crazy for not including a floppy drive in the first iMac, and I say they're crazy for not including an optical drive in this new MacBook, but we'll see. :D

goosnarrggh
Dec 10, 2007, 09:49 AM
Yeah I gave that a try as well just to see how OS X would behave on such a small laptop. It worked, but that's about all :) There were so many hardware-related issues that it was just cool for the novelty 'Wow MacOS running on something so small!!' effect but the usability was zero. Some of the serious issues included: No LAN or WiFi support (so no networking at all), random freezes, weird timebase problems. I had to plug paperclips into the VGA port to just get it to boot.
Hey, I never claimed it worked well, I just remembered having read about the fact that it was technologically possible. :)

The main reason why I love my Macs so much is because everything 'just works'. I don't want to run a hacked version with all the issues that come with it (not even to mention the legal ones) I just want a real mac :D

It did make me realize though that a mac in such a form factor would be extremely useful. If Apple would make a small, limited-but-cheap laptop like the EEE I would buy it in a heartbeat. Even if it was up to 800 euro or so.

But the rumored specs and price about this latest ultramobile are overkill for me. I don't need it to do everything that my desktop can do on the road, and it's too expensive to carry around carelessly (the EEE is 300 euro, I can break it or have it stolen 5 times for the price of the ultramobile macbook).
Wholeheartedly agree.

DaBrain
Dec 10, 2007, 09:53 AM
... It would eat up its (non-removable) battery approximately 100 times faster. That's before you deal with the increased power demand of the larger screen.

Well for some of us with not so great eye sight a larger screen is really a necessity, say 7 in diag or larger. I have a iTouch but the screen is just to small for me to enjoy it. That's just me and me poor eyes!:)

nilk
Dec 10, 2007, 09:56 AM
No optical drive would be fine as long as they had a docking station and/or an external optical drive.

I'd be in the market for such a device if there was a decent remote desktop solution for OS X. The current VNC-based solutions just don't perform fast enough, even on a local network, and especially over an internet connection. If there was something that could match the performance of Microsoft's RDC or NoMachine NX (for Linux) I would happily sit on my couch while remotely using my Mac Pro from an Apple notebook (preferably a sub-notebook).

It seems as if Apple just didn't design their GUI from the ground up to be efficient over a remote desktop connection the way X and Windows were. I routinely use my Windows machine at work over remote desktop over the internet, and it feels as though I'm sitting right there. I only wish I could do the same with my Macs.

There is also a lot of other little things Apple could do to make multi-machine usage better. Like allow remote management of playlists through iTunes sharing.

iMJustAGuy
Dec 10, 2007, 10:01 AM
i was thinking, and SD card slot would be truely amazing. Think about it, you can get and 8GB SD card for less than 70 dollars now, and, not for most people but for me, that is my entire itunes library and that would keep some of that flash memory free.;)

smeagol
Dec 10, 2007, 10:06 AM
Computers with no optical drive have been around for years. I am an avid mac user but travel and commute fairly frequently, so lugging around my macbook pro became somewhat of a problem. I bought a toshiba ultraportable sans optical drive for my travels and it's been great, weight-wise at least. All I use it for is email, documents, movies (mp4) and the occasional light photoshop/dreamweaver... my only gripe is it runs windows.

If Apple had an ultraportable out back then I would have bought it in a heartbeat. There is a huge market for such a device, just ask Toshiba, Dell, Sharp, IBM and all the other manufacturers who build them. Even if you already have a mac at home and travel alot, it makes more sense to travel light, just take what you need, leave what you don't, sync up when you return home.

And it's a full fledged computer with a full fledged OS... a Palm Foolio killer... oppss, that one never made it out the gate :eek:

Yvan256
Dec 10, 2007, 10:08 AM
Interesting post. Hopefully we will see that at MWSF...otherwise there will be a lot of complainers on the forums!

Apple will probably release something fantastic...but we all know what has happened in the past with "Rev A" computers...

You mean like all the "rev A" Mac mini that were faulty? ;)

Oh wait, that never happened. :D

iMJustAGuy
Dec 10, 2007, 10:10 AM
There is a huge market for such a device, just ask Toshiba, Dell, Sharp, IBM and all the other manufacturers who build them. Even if you already have a mac at home and travel alot, it makes more sense to travel light, just take what you need, leave what you don't, sync up when you return home.

I can't ask IBM, Lenovo bought them out:(

MuzikListner
Dec 10, 2007, 10:40 AM
I reckon that it will be a laptop version of the mac mini as there is the mb & mbp which are the imac & mac pro but there is no mac mini laptop.:)

Virgil-TB2
Dec 10, 2007, 10:45 AM
Agree, I'd rather have a "portable optical drive with me sometimes" than a "250 GB portable FW400 hd constantly". I'd still have the 50 GB WB Passport when travelling for backups, but the most important thing is: I would love one of these machines, and pretty most certainly buy one immediately.

I can already picture the various coffee places filled with people using this baby Apple notebook beauty!

Only one long vacation to go, and I'm ready to order right after the San Francisco party! :-)Apple never repeats a product. At least not exactly the same product.

If, as you are hoping, it has a small HD and an optical drive, it wouldn't be a sub-notebook at all, it would be essentially the 12" PowerBook G4 again. It would also make it hardly any different from the 13.3" MacBook they already offer, except in an aluminium case.

Since most folks already think that the MacBooks are going to be aluminium soon anyway, this makes little sense. Hopefully, they will phase out the ugly plastic MacBooks soon, but the possible ultra-portable and the possible tablet should be different animals altogether. Otherwise, why bother making them at all?

deadkenny
Dec 10, 2007, 10:45 AM
I voted negative on this. A roundup more than one month in advance is just silly.

cshale210
Dec 10, 2007, 10:47 AM
any rumors that swirl like this reguarding apple are usually not only met, but exceeded. the first company to find away to integrate a nand hd at an affortable price with make a lot of money. this would bring a whole new range on comumers and business peoople into apples market. Also, think of the rumors surrounding the iphone, and how once it came out, although it was expected, it blew our minds. This new generation laptop will start another revolution like the iphone did.

apologies for the long post.

smeagol
Dec 10, 2007, 10:48 AM
I can't ask IBM, Lenovo bought them out:(


Oh yeah, I forgot about that.... yeah ask Lenovo... I heard their X-series is pretty decent :o

Mekgek
Dec 10, 2007, 10:50 AM
I Want 14 Inch Yes!

goosnarrggh
Dec 10, 2007, 10:51 AM
Well for some of us with not so great eye sight a larger screen is really a necessity, say 7 in diag or larger. I have a iTouch but the screen is just to small for me to enjoy it. That's just me and me poor eyes!:)

I agree that a screen that's at least larger than the Touch (but hopefully no bigger than the MB) is necessary in the class of product we're talking about here. I was trying to voice my general opposition to suggestion of another sealed product without the ability to replace the battery.

Sijmen
Dec 10, 2007, 10:53 AM
I hope they finally bring larger-than-iPhone multitouch to the customer at a somewhat affordable price. Wishful thinking eh...

Rivix
Dec 10, 2007, 10:57 AM
Just update the 15" in some way please :D

goosnarrggh
Dec 10, 2007, 11:00 AM
I hope they finally bring larger-than-iPhone multitouch to the customer at a somewhat affordable price. Wishful thinking eh...

Your choice of the word "finally" has an interesting ring to it.

Apple's version of the technique has only been around for about 6 months now. I'd be surprised if there are enough software development houses out there right now sufficiently versed the paradigm to be able to deliver a complete suite of productivity applications which can truly do justice to integrating the technology (rather than just slapping it on and giving everything a half-finished feel).

NYCMacFan
Dec 10, 2007, 11:03 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)



People also said that it was a dumb idea to get rid of the floppy drive. I'm sure there will be a way to address all of the concerns that you mentioned. Something clever I'm sure.

We already see this issue dealt with everyday with ultraportables that have been on the market for the last 6-8 years. It is called an external USB DVD Drive. They are quite small and energy efficient now. I am a particular fan of ones that can be powered off of the USB, reducing the need for wires.

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/shentech/fiiptopdvd.jpg

archer75
Dec 10, 2007, 11:04 AM
Or get an Asus EEE for under $400.

$1500+ for this would be absolutely ridiculous.

NYCMacFan
Dec 10, 2007, 11:07 AM
Just update the 15" in some way please :D

Given the age of the line and assuming the new laptop is an MBP, it would seem likely that the 15inch and 17inch will get a slightly new look in line with whatever style they have for this new 13/12inch. Would have new Intel chips, possible use of SSD (standalone or given the larger footprint with an HDD as well. Oh and new video cards.

Dunno, if LED will be available for 17inch. Obviously Apple and other firms are working to make this happen, but we are in the ramp up stage of this technology.

Note that SSD and LED are the only big new technologies in the last few years and so a laptop with these is really worth a look (waiting won't get you so much).

Sijmen
Dec 10, 2007, 11:07 AM
Your choice of the word "finally" has an interesting ring to it.

Apple's version of the technique has only been around for about 6 months now. I'd be surprised if there are enough software development houses out there right now sufficiently versed the paradigm to be able to deliver a complete suite of productivity applications which can truly do justice to integrating the technology (rather than just slapping it on and giving everything a half-finished feel).

Yes, maybe you are right. I'm primarily interested from a developer perspective. I'd like to fiddle with it and see what kind of games can be made using it. And 'regular' software of course ;)

link92
Dec 10, 2007, 11:08 AM
The battery life would very much interest me: Apple tends to make laptops with better battery life for the same specs than other manufacturers. The ultraportable Sony VAIO G11 (which I'm currently considering buying) gets 9 hours — anything less than that would put it right out of question. A major part of the question will likely be whether they use low voltage or ultra-low voltage CPUs, and Core 2 Solo or Core 2 Duo chips (the former have a TDP of just over half of the latter).

mikeinternet
Dec 10, 2007, 11:18 AM
Toshiba just announced a 126GB SSD drive:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/12/10/toshiba.solid.state.drives/

1st quarter of next year.

you beat me to it. i agree these seem like the right choice. especially with a 64gig option to cut the price of the lower model.

and the timing is right.

NYCMacFan
Dec 10, 2007, 11:18 AM
The R500 really needs to be our benchmark. 12inch, 2.3lbs with HDD drive option (in this case even includes a DVD drive) and , SSD (which takes weight down to 1.7 (and DVD is out with). This is what I expect Apple to decisively beat - or at least match- in terms of weight, performance and other factors.

http://webobjects2.cdw.com/is/image/CDW/1232163?$product_large$

Link with details here:
http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/pressdetail.jsp?editorialoid=385254

With the SSD and the optical drive removed, it is a fully function 12inch laptop, with a good usuable keyboard for 1.7 lbs.

Note that SSD and LED with an efficient processor allows a smaller battery further saving on weight while still giving you hours of usage...

I am just waiting to see how Apple trumps them. I also still find the 12inch screen painful to use in widescreen (I am writing this on a G4 12inch ibook) and so praying for a 13.3.

NYCMacFan
Dec 10, 2007, 11:21 AM
The battery life would very much interest me: Apple tends to make laptops with better battery life for the same specs than other manufacturers. The ultraportable Sony VAIO G11 (which I'm currently considering buying) gets 9 hours — anything less than that would put it right out of question. A major part of the question will likely be whether they use low voltage or ultra-low voltage CPUs, and Core 2 Solo or Core 2 Duo chips (the former have a TDP of just over half of the latter).

I don't know if Apple would go with a weaker chip. Do they have a history of this? I do not recall it. My guess is they prefer the energy savings to come from an SSD, LED combo. I lack the technical background to know what kind of energy savings can be gotten from the Core 2 Duo and the new chips due in January (being faster, they can do the same task for less energy than existing chiips right?) But you guys tell me...

jb510
Dec 10, 2007, 11:25 AM
Based on the rumors you can not compare this to the EeePC. The EeePC is 7" and 2/4/8GB. How can you compare that with 12/13" and 32/64GB? Obviously there is going to be a huge price difference.

External optical is a no-brainier via either USB/FireWire/ExpressCard. You can burn your moves to the NAND drive and still watch them on the plane.

Could you imagine 14Hr battery life?

Multi-touch... Why? it'd be insansely expensive on the actually display. I could see them do it on the touch pad and maybe eliminate the mouse button at the same time... but a display under the touchpad? Why? nobody looks at there touch pad.

Why aren't more people trying to name this thing, or am I not paying attention... MacFolder? MacPaper? DietMacBook? LipoBook?

I fully expect there to be a major MBP update as well since the difference between the new MB and the MBP is so slim at this point. Yeah! that's what I need... unless the price of this new slim laptop is actually cheap enough to justify buying it in combo with an iMac instead of a high end MBP.

Peace
Dec 10, 2007, 11:25 AM
The R500 really needs to be our benchmark. 12inch, 2.3lbs with HDD drive option (in this case even includes a DVD drive) and , SSD (which takes weight down to 1.7 (and DVD is out with). This is what I expect Apple to decisively beat - or at least match- in terms of weight, performance and other factors.


Link with details here:
http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/pressdetail.jsp?editorialoid=385254

With the SSD and the optical drive removed, it is a fully function 12inch laptop, with a good usuable keyboard for 1.7 lbs.

Note that SSD and LED with an efficient processor allows a smaller battery further saving on weight while still giving you hours of usage...

I am just waiting to see how Apple trumps them. I also still find the 12inch screen painful to use in widescreen (I am writing this on a G4 12inch ibook) and so praying for a 13.3.

Toshiba already untrumped themselves.

From their updated specs page :

Physical Description
• Dimensions (WxDxH Front/H Rear): 11.1” x 8.5” x .77”(f)/1.0”(r) without
feet

Schtumple
Dec 10, 2007, 11:25 AM
Ok so this can either go 2 ways:

1. We get a ultra portable macbook pro, which will essentially, be useless to professionals, I hate editing on a 17 inch screen let alone a 13 inch one, so for professional users this will be useless, period.

Btw, what were the dimensions of the powerbook 12inch? Why is it apple could make a decent, fully packed 12 inch laptop, but not a 13inch widescreen one :confused: I know, I know 12 inch 4:3 is a bit bigger than 13 inch 16:9, but still...

2. We get a ultra portable macbook, which will essentially, be ok, should be easy enough if there's no cd drive, although I guess I wouldn't buy it if it didn't have a optical drive on it.

Am I the only person who wants just a macbook with a basic (128mb) dedicated graphics card, and that be the ultra portable macbook?

The technology is already here to make this product work, it just depends on who apple decides to aim/price it at...

I expect full on flaming at me :rolleyes:

compuguy1088
Dec 10, 2007, 11:37 AM
Remember what others said about no floppy drive on new iMacs?

welcome to iEvolution 2.0

I woudn't say that trend now of no floppy drives was as big as when the colored iMacs first came out. My desktop that I use day-to-day has no floppy, from the fact that I can use a USB or CD/DVD to boot.

kontheur
Dec 10, 2007, 11:41 AM
http://www.frankreinders.nl/foto/800/touch_main.jpg

MuzikListner
Dec 10, 2007, 11:45 AM
http://www.frankreinders.nl/foto/800/touch_main.jpg

I've seen this picture a few times now and i really like it, Knowing Apple they will probably make something like this but better.:)

DesignerOnMac
Dec 10, 2007, 11:47 AM
At this point, I just want Apple to put out quality products.

Sure, innovation is fun.

But the heat, bugs, fit and finish issues, and don't get me started on the displays, and other general quality problems are just getting brutal.

It is stressful to open a new Mac. You just don't know what you are going to get.

I would love to buy something like this to complement my 17", but the quality problems are just too brutal with Apple of late.

I have had Apple computers since 1988, with only 2 issues, with 1 iBook being sent back for keyboard issues, (keys kept popping off).

i now have a new 24" iMac Extreme, and I could not be happier, even after reading all the problems and complaints and how many times someone exchanged their iMac!

Schtumple
Dec 10, 2007, 11:54 AM
http://www.frankreinders.nl/foto/800/touch_main.jpg

No, just no.

masse
Dec 10, 2007, 12:02 PM
I'm not sure they'll keep it in the pro family unless they can squeeze in dedicated graphics, an optical drive, and sufficient drive space. Without dedicated graphics it's just a macbook, and without an optical drive or hard drive space its just not useful enough for mainstream users.

I think it would be appealing to a lot of college students that want something that looks cool like a macbook pro and is small and cute. Yes I'm talking about girls. Girls want a cute little whatever its called. And they'd be willing to pay for the style.

137489
Dec 10, 2007, 12:08 PM
The R500 really needs to be our benchmark. .

Hey NYCMacFan - Looked up the specs based on your link. Nice Computer, but a way to pricey for most people (myself included). I also liked your picture of the external Opticle Drive.

Good points - smaller PC.
Bad Points - lugging around more external devices. I had an IBM think pad years back that had an external floppy. It was a pain to lug around and I also had to make sure I had a case with a pocket for it. I also burn CD's on the fly for people, especially if we make changes to our church program at the last minute - so I would be lugging around external devices. Also worry about the underwrite errors that external CD drives used to have.

The R500 and the New Dell XPS's need to be the bench mark in size and performance, but the price needs to be about that of a MacBook or a low-end MBP. I like the fact that the R500 shows a tray loading drive, since media sizes are an issue with Slot loading.

Goes with my last posts - the technology is out there, Apple needs to be innovative to come up with new plans not just copy what is already done. But price is a factor for most people - especially college students. With the price of college education, how can anyone afford a $2,000 base model laptop that will probably only get them through their college years.

Atleast on what I see on ebay - Apple runs for ever, people still want them - even the old Pizmo's, G3 clamshells with 10gb hd. PC on the other hand - prices much lower and no one buying.

Give us something new, exciting, meets our needs, but also affordable with multiple configurations available.

Clive At Five
Dec 10, 2007, 12:11 PM
Sorry to be one of "those" guys, but.........

Unless this thing is less than 13", or is REALLY fricken thin and light, it is going to be a subparbook. There are plenty of people who make a small notebook, but the key to redefining this "industry" is cut the BS. Screen size is a gimmick. It's how you use the space. 32GB SSD is fine for a computer that is designed to be a compliment to your desktop/main computer. As is a Core Duo (maybe even Solo). I see no reason why this computer shouldn't be small, lightweight, and reasonably priced as long as it is designed to fit the "complementary" role.

Any other sort of laptop from Apple would be a copycat of someone else's subparbook.

-Clive

slffl
Dec 10, 2007, 12:12 PM
Interesting post. Hopefully we will see that at MWSF...otherwise there will be a lot of complainers on the forums!

Apple will probably release something fantastic...but we all know what has happened in the past with "Rev A" computers...

No what? My 'Rev A' 17" Powerbook is still going strong. 'Rev A' is a myth!!!

NYCMacFan
Dec 10, 2007, 12:16 PM
Hey NYCMacFan - Looked up the specs based on your link. Nice Computer, but a way to pricey for most people (myself included). I also liked your picture of the external Opticle Drive.

Good points - smaller PC.
Bad Points - lugging around more external devices. I had an IBM think pad years back that had an external floppy. It was a pain to lug around and I also had to make sure I had a case with a pocket for it. I also burn CD's on the fly for people, especially if we make changes to our church program at the last minute - so I would be lugging around external devices. Also worry about the underwrite errors that external CD drives used to have.

The R500 and the New Dell XPS's need to be the bench mark in size and performance, but the price needs to be about that of a MacBook or a low-end MBP. I like the fact that the R500 shows a tray loading drive, since media sizes are an issue with Slot loading.

I agree pricing is an issue and would expect Apple to deliver an expensive, but not outrageous machine. I will buy via work and so will pay whatever the cost is (it's been blocked out of my expense account for over a year waiting for this), but this is not true of others.

One option for them naturally is a less expensive HDD option and two levels of SSD (64 and 128).

I think the notion of the external DVD would be for the user that has it in case of emergencies or only needed it occasionally. This is never a good option for someone that expects to use their DVD drive a lot (though they can be smaller and USB powered in some cases). Note SSD are less prone to failure and on the road you can almost always find an Apple store or a repair place that fixes them (I had no problems even in the middle of nowhere in Asia and Europe finding a place.)

They could try the Toshiba route and squeeze a DVD in. Just not sure they will. I also just have a strange gut feeling that like the floppy they do not see this as important for the target users. Could be wrong though. Also, having no DVD will reduce peak power consumption and allow for longer life and/or a smaller, lighter battery (especially with an LED and SSD).

One final issue: That R500 is a bit flimsy (check out the CNET reviews or the Mossberg review on youtube) with lots of give and flex. This may be unacceptable to Apple and force them to add weight to ensure better build quality.

lkrupp
Dec 10, 2007, 12:17 PM
Interesting post. Hopefully we will see that at MWSF...otherwise there will be a lot of complainers on the forums!

Apple will probably release something fantastic...but we all know what has happened in the past with "Rev A" computers...

I've owned nothing but "Rev A" machines over the last decade or two. From the original Power Mac 8100, to the original G4/400/AGP "Sawtooth", original G4 Titanium 667 Power Book, and three years ago the Dual 2.5/G5 liquid cooled tower. All "Rev A" machines...and all PERFECT without a single problem or repair performed during their years of service. So far only the PM8100 has made it to the recycling plant. The others are still in use by family members.

When will people get a clue that reports on user forums are anecdotal at best, amplify the negative, and in no way what-so-ever provide any indication of the scope of certain problems? Hey, there are a couple dozen posts on xyz.com about a problem. Not a couple dozen unique user reports with the same problem. For sure multiple posts and rants by several disgruntled users. Yet these post counts are seized upon as proof of widespread trouble, design flaws, manufacturing defects, and on and on. Same goes for OS X updates. A few users have the same problem and, presto, it's a 'widespread', 'known' issue worthy of rampant Apple bashing.

Baloney! Get a clue.:mad:

137489
Dec 10, 2007, 12:34 PM
I agree pricing is an issue and would expect Apple to deliver an expensive, but not outrageous machine. .

Thanks for quoting, but I just noticed something about the R500

Product Specifications

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Processor
Processor Type * : Core™2 Duo Processor Number * : U7600 Processor Speed * : 1.20GHz Front Side Bus * : 533MHz
Operating System **



Processor seems small for a $2000 machine. Form factor nice, but performance? Unless this is a new chipset.... Also, from the product reviews - slow performance and the cursor jumps around when typing. Usually a problem with most PC laptops - but the reviews so far is, it is much worse and rather annoying....

We will just see what happens comes January - or if this is more of the same hype that has been going on for a year now.... As for me, it seems everytime I buy (whether PC or something else), days later a new model comes out that has evertything I was looking for already standard..... I have been waiting for almost 2 years to buy a mac. I don't want a desktop, Mini is on the way out, issues with Macbooks when they first came out (some stuff people are still complaining that is not fixed), and MBP is out of my price range. However the more I see available for MAC, the less I want to go the PC route again... Everytime I get ready to buy, something better comes out on the market from Apple for almost the same price.

Touch screen - ok, but we had touch screen monitors in the field for years. Lost stylus = people using pens and gouging the screen. Most icons on applications are too small for the average finger.

Clive At Five
Dec 10, 2007, 12:35 PM
One option for them naturally is a less expensive HDD option and two levels of SSD (64 and 128).

And at $2000, and $4000 respectively, those SSD drives will barely affect the price of the machine at all.

Meanwhile, 32GB can be had for ~$250 retail.

So let's not try to be unreasonable here, people...

-Clive

Snits
Dec 10, 2007, 12:37 PM
Why a $1500 subnotebook? Just buy another MacBook at $1000. The MacSnackBook should be in the $600-$900 range, upscaling the iPhone with iSight (and iChat) and making kindling out of the Kindle. And giving schools a real choice.

Side rant: When are we going to see digital textbooks? Why are we still buying 70 pounds of books for 90 pound kids for the same price as a creative learning tool. How first millennium.

tuneman07
Dec 10, 2007, 12:40 PM
From reading these posts it is pretty obvious that many if not most of the people on this forum are technological professionals of some kind who have multiple computers and apparently see their laptops as a "supplement". Thats understandable, but what about your average Joe (me)? I don't use my laptop for work at all and it is my only computer. Most of the people I know have a laptop not because they need to carry it everywhere but because it is soooooooooo much nicer than a huge bulky desktop which has to be in 1 spot in the house with all sorts of wires. I don't need a Macbook pro for 2 grand that has all that power and dedicated graphics, but I need a computer that can do everything because its my only computer. Macbook fits that pretty well although a 15 inch one would be nice. My point here is you guys seem to be forgetting that not everyone has 4 computers and needs some sort of pocket sized supplemental computer to use once a week. Honestly I'm hoping the Macbook just gets a face lift and not some crazy overhaul.

gugy
Dec 10, 2007, 12:40 PM
MAC PRO FIRST :mad: then we talk about gadgets


I agree, this lack of announcement of a killer MacPro is just driving me crazy.
I really look forward to the most powerful Mac ever than all this talk about ultra-portable.
Apple needs to address their most faithful users. The creative pro community.

Please bring alongside new displays and a new design for MacPro as well.

sam10685
Dec 10, 2007, 12:46 PM
If it's true I might have my credit card standing by......:cool:

I think most of us will.

archer75
Dec 10, 2007, 12:49 PM
Still waiting for a non workstation tower. With C2D processors and DDR2 ram. Something that will allow me to upgrade the video card in and not use funky ram like the mac pro. That would be nice.

Clive At Five
Dec 10, 2007, 12:54 PM
but what about your average Joe (me)? I don't use my laptop for work at all and it is my only computer.

While I might agree that the price difference between the high-end MB (I'm talking about the white one, not the black-taxed BlackBook) and low-end MBP is a little extreme, I don't agree that there's a performance gap there. Either you need more than a MB or you don't.

The only sticking point I see is the price jump, which is unwarranted. The low-end MBP should cost no more than $1600. And the BlackBook should cost $1399, maximum, but that's a different story.

-Clive

Clive At Five
Dec 10, 2007, 12:58 PM
Apple needs to address their most faithful users. The creative pro community.

And might I add "Creative users who don't need four (soon eight) cores-worth of server-class processing power" to the list? I like to do high-end things, just not as part of my career. Yet I've been an Apple Faithful since my parents first bought us an Apple IIgs. Where's the computer for me, Apple?

Still waiting for a non workstation tower. With C2D processors and DDR2 ram. Something that will allow me to upgrade the video card in and not use funky ram like the mac pro. That would be nice.

Hey, Apple, are you listinging?!?! Here's yet ANOTHER consumer dying for an xMac. Are you deaf?

-Clive

jlbrown23
Dec 10, 2007, 01:03 PM
How would they do this with no optical drive? I dont like that.

What if you wanted to format and reinstall the OS? Are they going to include that on a thumb drive? What if you want to rip CD's with iTunes???

No Optical drive sounds like a dumb idea, in any computer. Even if you use it for ultra portability, and/or buisness, you would want a DVD player for downtime or whatever.

I disagree - in an ultraportable, it is a great idea. I have an IBM X40 for work, and the size/weight are great for travel. I almost never use a drive (w/ USB flash & fast networks, drives are becoming less important), and when I do need one I use an external USB DVD drive. But I have to say, the drive collects a lot of dust between uses.

archer75
Dec 10, 2007, 01:04 PM
I see absolutely no point in a 12" ultraportable. The macbook is 13" and i'm sure that one inch isn't going to make a difference. Seems like a pointless product.

Schtumple
Dec 10, 2007, 01:05 PM
Hey, Apple, are you listinging?!?! Here's yet ANOTHER consumer dying for an xMac. Are you deaf?

-Clive

It'll never happen, get over it.

Vikash
Dec 10, 2007, 01:07 PM
Won't be suprised if they release a multitouch tablet macbookpro.

NYCMacFan
Dec 10, 2007, 01:10 PM
And at $2000, and $4000 respectively, those SSD drives will barely affect the price of the machine at all.

Meanwhile, 32GB can be had for ~$250 retail.

So let's not try to be unreasonable here, people...

-Clive

I agree. I think that the storage choice (HDD vs. SSD) and drive size will be what drives the price differences...

Clive At Five
Dec 10, 2007, 01:10 PM
It'll never happen, get over it.

If Shaw Wu or Walt Mossberg decides to pull the rumor out of their ass (or steal from AppleInsider) as they do all with all their rum- I mean "Insider information", they'll keep reiterating it until there's so much shareholder pressure that Apple HAS to release such a computer. It's the way things have been going recently.

Now to trick AI into rumoring an xMac...

-Clive

NYCMacFan
Dec 10, 2007, 01:14 PM
Thanks for quoting, but I just noticed something about the R500

Processor Type * : Core™2 Duo Processor Number * : U7600 Processor Speed * : 1.20GHz Front Side Bus * : 533MHz

Processor seems small for a $2000 machine.

I agree and noted the same thing earlier. I do not think that Apple will go with a weaker processor, but will be a recipient of the new Intel chips. So Apple will be faster, but use more power than say some ultra low voltage chip. Low voltage chips also run cooler, which is handy for laptops. But I still do not think Apple has a history of going with these.

(I lack a technical background on chip tech, but do believe understand that better power management on a faster chip can be used to reduce power load somewhat - it only has to work half as hard and so drains less battery, but again I do not have a background in chips...)

But a U7600 uses 10watts while other processors are at 17w and 34w. SSD uses 1 watt, HDD at peak use is 2 watt. But these numbers seem odd. Here is a link that breaks down power consumption issues in mobile computers:

cache-www.intel.com/cd/00/00/10/27/102727_ar024103.pdf

iVoid
Dec 10, 2007, 01:15 PM
Well, one way they could make a ultra portable Mac smaller is to remove the touch pad. Then use a bluetooth connected iPhone as the touchpad interface. :) :)

twoodcc
Dec 10, 2007, 01:15 PM
While I might agree that the price difference between the high-end MB (I'm talking about the white one, not the black-taxed BlackBook) and low-end MBP is a little extreme, I don't agree that there's a performance gap there. Either you need more than a MB or you don't.

The only sticking point I see is the price jump, which is unwarranted. The low-end MBP should cost no more than $1600. And the BlackBook should cost $1399, maximum, but that's a different story.

-Clive

but someone might need more than the macbook, but not a bigger screen

dabirdwell
Dec 10, 2007, 01:16 PM
And at $2000, and $4000 respectively, those SSD drives will barely affect the price of the machine at all.

Meanwhile, 32GB can be had for ~$250 retail.

So let's not try to be unreasonable here, people...

-Clive

If this is accurate pricing, is there anything to preclude Apple from offering an upgraded version with two of these drives in some sort of SSD-RAID out of the box? Are there technological limitations on this, or could it potentially offer both performance and storage size advantages?

jlbrown23
Dec 10, 2007, 01:19 PM
From reading these posts it is pretty obvious that many if not most of the people on this forum are technological professionals of some kind who have multiple computers and apparently see their laptops as a "supplement". Thats understandable, but what about your average Joe (me)? I don't use my laptop for work at all and it is my only computer. Most of the people I know have a laptop not because they need to carry it everywhere but because it is soooooooooo much nicer than a huge bulky desktop which has to be in 1 spot in the house with all sorts of wires. I don't need a Macbook pro for 2 grand that has all that power and dedicated graphics, but I need a computer that can do everything because its my only computer.

The whole point of an ultraportable is for the people you are describing. Apple already HAS the computer you want(MacBook). But they don't have a light laptop and haven't for years. And for those of us who want one, this is great news. And for your needs, being a MacBook owner myself, I can tell you it is a great machine.

Clive At Five
Dec 10, 2007, 01:21 PM
If this is accurate pricing, is there anything to preclude Apple from offering an upgraded version with two of these drives in some sort of SSD-RAID out of the box? Are there technological limitations on this, or could it potentially offer both performance and storage size advantages?

I doubt Apple would. But a duality might work for caching, and writing to disk whenever the unit has idle time. Technically, it's the same idea behind the hybrid HDDs with a solid state cache.

The idea, though, is to reduce energy used, and HDDs use significantly more than SSDs.

-Clive

archer75
Dec 10, 2007, 01:21 PM
It'll never happen, get over it.

Why not? They did it with thier PPC line.

ironMonkey
Dec 10, 2007, 01:31 PM
Anybody who bought a 12" powerbook would be in the market for this product. If you have a job that requires you to do work away from an office, you will appreciate having a computer that weighs less than 5 lbs.

I highly doubt that demographic is limited to college women.



I'm not sure they'll keep it in the pro family unless they can squeeze in dedicated graphics, an optical drive, and sufficient drive space. Without dedicated graphics it's just a macbook, and without an optical drive or hard drive space its just not useful enough for mainstream users.

I think it would be appealing to a lot of college students that want something that looks cool like a macbook pro and is small and cute. Yes I'm talking about girls. Girls want a cute little whatever its called. And they'd be willing to pay for the style.

Sannekita
Dec 10, 2007, 01:44 PM
It says a 12 inch Macbook PRO, who would want a pro that small?! one of the reasons you get the pro is the screensize. For example: photographers and editors want a big screen... I don't get this
Just give me an updated macbook pro!

TurboSC
Dec 10, 2007, 01:47 PM
A plastic laptop construction would drive the cost down, but plastic is so... cheap. It wouldn't feel like a high end Apple laptop, especially if it was released in the pro line.

Apple is know for their sleek sexy aluminum enclosures, and I don't think providing it in plastic to knock down the price is going to really help with sales. ( That's why there's the MacBook line )

If indeed this new laptop will join the ranks of the MacBookPro line, or create a higher-tier line for Apple laptop offerings, it'll have to please both aesthetically and feature-wise. I think plastic was a thing of the past for Apple, everything in their arsenal is converting over :)

Lartymarf
Dec 10, 2007, 01:50 PM
Anyone else, like me, have a 12" G4 Powerbook looking to switch over to a new Apple ultraportable?

Anyone else, like me, actually very happy with the G4 PB with Leopard performance for basic photo editing, email, web surfing, watching movies?

Anyone else find themselves happy with the 12" size of the PB?

Schtumple
Dec 10, 2007, 01:54 PM
Why not? They did it with thier PPC line.

everyone gripes for this product, but it just won't happen, xeons are too expensive.

chameleon81
Dec 10, 2007, 01:56 PM
We need tons for our University, but it should be much smaller. 6-inch or so. The FULL Mac OS X 10.5.x experience-computer in your hand and in your pocket. Full wireless computerless NATIVE Keynote and PowerPoint presentations. The ultimate presentation remote. Huge halo effect on the corporate, education and domestic markets. Boosts Mac market share to 10% worldwide!!!
yeah sure ! everyone is waiting for a 1500 dolar portable laptop to purchase whichs abilities would be possibly limited compared to ordinary ones.

tuneman07
Dec 10, 2007, 01:57 PM
The whole point of an ultraportable is for the people you are describing. Apple already HAS the computer you want(MacBook). But they don't have a light laptop and haven't for years. And for those of us who want one, this is great news. And for your needs, being a MacBook owner myself, I can tell you it is a great machine.


That is true- I am just hoping they don't get rid of the Macbook or "upgrade" it to 12 inches or even 11. They really need a 15 inch low end notebook though its so wierd to me that you have to pay an extra 800 or so for a 15 inch notebook. Not to mention the MBP isn't really all that much better performance wise. It seems so senseless not to offer smaller hard drives or integrated graphics for way cheaper in a 15 inch notebook. I suppose they would say it would cannibalize sales of the Macbook. Well so what, does the cheap BMW cannibalize the M5? of course not, if there was no low end BMW people just wouldn't buy one. To think that by getting rid of the cheap BMW's that sales of the M5 would increase is stupid you are just going to send customers elsewhere.

Clive At Five
Dec 10, 2007, 01:57 PM
but someone might need more than the macbook, but not a bigger screen

I agree that there could be room for this computer in Apple's lineup. It just wouldn't be an "Ultra-Portable." If it had all the features of a MBP, it would weigh probably about as much as a 13" MacBook. Any smaller than that and you are treading heavily on the problem of fitting the necessary components of a unit that powerful inside a shell that small... and cooling the thing.

-Clive

tibi08
Dec 10, 2007, 01:59 PM
It says a 12 inch Macbook PRO, who would want a pro that small?! one of the reasons you get the pro is the screensize. For example: photographers and editors want a big screen... I don't get this
Just give me an updated macbook pro!

Not true at all - I got a Pro 15" because its better build quality than the poorly put together Macbook. If I could've got a 13" MBP then I would have.

Clive At Five
Dec 10, 2007, 02:04 PM
everyone gripes for this product, but it just won't happen, xeons are too expensive.

Fortunately, Intel makes a DESKTOP CLASS Core 2 Duo, which Apple has entirely omitted from their line. And guess what? They cost about the same as their mobile cousins while outperforming them. Yes, mobility comes at a price.

Apple could easily make a unit that uses these CPUs. Actually, the mobile CPUs are what dissauded me from wanting an iMac. Apple used to be able to fit the same CPUs in their iMacs as they did their PowerMacs. With today's iMac design, they can't. Why pay a premium for a flawed design?

-Clive

Clive At Five
Dec 10, 2007, 02:09 PM
To think that by getting rid of the cheap BMW's that sales of the M5 would increase is stupid you are just going to send customers elsewhere.

Yes, and for luxury cars, there exists an "elsewhere." For Mac OS X, Apple is it.

And people don't understand when you try to tell them Apple has monopolistic behaviors! :rolleyes:

-Clive

gropo
Dec 10, 2007, 02:20 PM
Be nice if it had a superfast external data bus for the option for 'real number-crunching'... given the likelihood of a storage capacity sacrifice in-chassis.

On the other hand, FW 800, hosting a 10k drive via inline power would suck it's little LiPoly(my speculation) battery dry pretty quickly.

What do you think? 800 or merely last millennia's dedicated high-speed bus.

AP_piano295
Dec 10, 2007, 02:26 PM
Why not just get an EEE PC theres really no practical value for a high end micro PC.

tibi08
Dec 10, 2007, 02:28 PM
Why not just get an EEE PC theres really no practical value for a high end micro PC.

Mac OS X

archer75
Dec 10, 2007, 02:37 PM
everyone gripes for this product, but it just won't happen, xeons are too expensive.

Who said anything about xeons? I specifically said C2D processors with DDR2 ram. Apple should have no problem building a sub $1500 unit.

Maldini
Dec 10, 2007, 02:39 PM
even if Jobs announce the slimMac in January, it will take months to start delivering..
Does anyone recall the last Macworld ? how long did it take for the new MBP to be shipped ?! :rolleyes:

paulyras
Dec 10, 2007, 02:43 PM
Well, one way they could make a ultra portable Mac smaller is to remove the touch pad. Then use a bluetooth connected iPhone as the touchpad interface. :) :)

Cool concept, but they will never release, and I will never buy something not allowed on a plane. Bluetooth is still technically banned, and is turned off in airplane mode on the iphone and any other cell phone.

As an aside, not that anyone does, or that it poses any risk at all, but the same is supposed to be true of the wireless and bluetooth in your laptop...

koshper
Dec 10, 2007, 02:44 PM
As someone who needs a large hard drive on my current laptop (Macbook); may someone kindly inform me what sort of people would need this sort of ultra portable laptop (due the space limitation of current flash memory)?
Cheers.
:)

Me

I love the idea of another 13" screen but much lighter and slimmer and if they max out the battery life i'd be in heaven.

I don't need a lot of storage space since I use my macbook mainly for net browsing and messing around.

I have my ipod for massive music storage and my home network for everything else.

I acknowledge this isn't the case for everyone and i understand that but I imagine there are many others like me who it would be perfect for and I can't wait.

Just because something isn't your bag, it doesn't mean it isn't anyone else's.

tuneman07
Dec 10, 2007, 02:48 PM
Yes, and for luxury cars, there exists an "elsewhere." For Mac OS X, Apple is it.

And people don't understand when you try to tell them Apple has monopolistic behaviors! :rolleyes:

-Clive

Well there is an elsewhere for laptops, its called every other computer company. If apple wants to grow you would think their main goal would be to just get people using Apple products. I would argue most people don't want to limit their options so much by buying an Apple for a system they have never used (OSX). I am willing to try it but the more research I do the more doubt I have about whether or not this company really is any different than Microsoft, Dell, etc... It seems like they are limiting options to save money at the expense of new customers. Why else can you go to any other computer maker's website, start with a shell basically, and put whatever you want into it where Apple says we have this, this and this, pick one.

gropo
Dec 10, 2007, 02:51 PM
As someone who needs a large hard drive on my current laptop (Macbook); may someone kindly inform me what sort of people would need this sort of ultra portable laptop (due the space limitation of current flash memory)?
Cheers.
:)

Me, I'm about to enter an 18 month massage therapy program and need something to assist learning the features of 250+ muscles, their insertion points and relationships, and take notes in classes. Needs to be non-obtrusive. I don't need full-bore computing, but would love to get home, dock her in and get to work with full Time Machine functionality etc.

Schtumple
Dec 10, 2007, 02:53 PM
Who said anything about xeons? I specifically said C2D processors with DDR2 ram. Apple should have no problem building a sub $1500 unit.

True, but that would then interfere with iMac sales.

archer75
Dec 10, 2007, 03:00 PM
True, but that would then interfere with iMac sales.

Not necessarily. Some people need a monitor or want less clutter and an imac fits the bill. Some of us already have monitors and just want to be able to upgrade the video card and need a form factor that allows this.
No matter what is purchased, apple still sells a product.

winterspan
Dec 10, 2007, 03:00 PM
Maybe someone who does not need a lot of disk space and doesn't feel like lugging a full-size laptop around?

Seriously, there is really a big market for ultramobile. I've currently got an EEEPC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASUS_Eee_PC) myself with 4GB disk space and that's plenty for emailing, websurfing and editing documents on the road. Of course it's not a desktop replacement, but it's nice and handy on the road for those basic computer needs and much more convenient than a smartphone when you really need to do something.

I'd *love* to have a Mac this size. Too bad though the pricing will be way out there if the rumours are correct - the EEEPC is only 299 (euro or dollar depending on your region). That would make the ultrasmall Mac 5 times as expensive. But the other manufacturers (such as sony) that make laptops that size charge even more so I guess it's ok.

Are you kidding me?? You are SERIOUSLY comparing a high-end subnotebook to an EEPC? I think you are totally missing the point.

I'm already sick of people comparing this to the stupid EEPC and saying "Apple is a ripoff, I can get an EEPC/Fooleo/[insert cheap POS here] for $300..."

This laptop will be comparable to the Panasonic R6/T5/W5 or Sony Vaio TZ90/G1 type subnotebooks that actually use decent laptop components including Intel Core 2 Duo chips, 1-2GB RAM, flash SSDs, high resolution screens (high DPI - like 1366x768/1440x900/+ in a 9-11" screen ) that are LED backlit, Gigabit LAN/Wifi/bluetooth/3G, DVI, Firewire, Carbon Fiber /aluminum cases, etc. These are already huge sellers in Asia, especially in Japan.

You can hardly compare on of those to a EE-PC with a 900mhz celeron chip, 256MB ram, 4GB HDD, 7" screen. Thats like a "my first laptop" childrens toy compared to what Apple will bring out.

</rant>

archer75
Dec 10, 2007, 03:13 PM
Are you kidding me?? You are SERIOUSLY comparing a high-end subnotebook to an EEPC? I think you are totally missing the point.

I'm already sick of people comparing this to the stupid EEPC and saying "Apple is a ripoff, I can get an EEPC/Fooleo/[insert cheap POS here] for $300..."

This laptop will be comparable to the Panasonic R6/T5/W5 or Sony Vaio TZ90/G1 type subnotebooks that actually use decent laptop components including Intel Core 2 Duo chips, 1-2GB RAM, flash SSDs, high resolution screens (high DPI - like 1366x768/1440x900/+ in a 9-11" screen ) that are LED backlit, Gigabit LAN/Wifi/bluetooth/3G, DVI, Firewire, Carbon Fiber /aluminum cases, etc.

You have all that in a macbook. Is shrinking the screen by 1" really going to make a difference?

Clive At Five
Dec 10, 2007, 03:13 PM
Well there is an elsewhere for laptops, its called every other computer company.

Some things are more important than hardware alone... like overall user experience. Now I can tollerate using Windows XP w/ SP2... but I'd rather not.

It seems like they are limiting options to save money at the expense of new customers.

Sadly, I agree. Apple's priorities aren't in converting Windows users. It's about making a product that sells. After years of clinging onto 3% market shares, Apple has become paranoid and is being overly sure not to make the same mistake more than once. One of their mistakes was having too complex of a product line for too few people. However, nowadays, as they've grown, they haven't expanded their product line accordingly. What started as the neatest product matrix ever (iBook, PowerBook, iMac, PowerMac) has only only grown by one unit (the MacMini) to accomodate an additional 2.5 times (and growing) as many people.

Lame, Apple. You have $15 Billion in cash. Develop an xMac, a MacBook Mini, and while you're at it, a tablet. You have the cash to screw up if it's a bust.

-Clive

Clive At Five
Dec 10, 2007, 03:19 PM
True, but that would then interfere with iMac sales.

Not true at all. My wife would want an iMac. She likes things simple and elegant. I would want an xMac because I like dependable hardware, but I also like to upgrade and customize. Why shouldn't I be able to? Or maybe I should ask, why should I have to pay $2500 for Apple's introductory upgradeable machine????!?! That's insane.

You could fit two 18-wheelers in the gaping hole between iMac and Mac Pro... three between the Mini and Pro.

-Clive

law guy
Dec 10, 2007, 03:22 PM
"- 2.25 lbs
- 0.7 inches thick
- 14 hours battery life
- NAND Flash
- WiMax, Cellular, WiFi support

As a concept design with no regard to cost, all of these features may not be included in a theoretical Mac laptop, but it does provide an idea of what might be possible with current technology."

Doesn't Toshiba's R500 notebook with 64 GB SSD that's been shipping since July "provide an idea of what might be possible with current technology" or... an idea of what folks expected last Summer from Apple.

From: http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cmod.to?coid=-33781
The Ultimate Ultraportable
With its ultralight design and stunning silhouette, the feather light 1.72 pound*† Portégé® R500 Series is the transcendent expression of executive mobility and style. Offering the world's lightest* widescreen 12.1" notebook PC in one configuration, and the world's thinnest widescreen 12.1" notebook PC with an integrated DVD-SuperMulti drive in another, the Portégé® R500 Series represents an uncompromising synthesis of portability and productivity that's meticulously engineered for the demands of executive computing.Lightest model configuration of 1.72 lbs is based on a 64GB solid state drive (SSD), a 3 cell battery and no optical disk drive. The Portégé® R500 with the solid state drive will not be available until the end of July 2007.
http://www.toshibadirect.com/images/products/prod_portegeR500_225.jpg

Schtumple
Dec 10, 2007, 03:28 PM
Not true at all. My wife would want an iMac. She likes things simple and elegant. I would want an xMac because I like dependable hardware, but I also like to upgrade and customize. Why shouldn't I be able to? Or maybe I should ask, why should I have to pay $2500 for Apple's introductory upgradeable machine????!?! That's insane.

You could fit two 18-wheelers in the gapping hole between iMac and Mac Pro... three between the Mini and Pro.

-Clive

I want an xMac too, I just can't see it happening, I'd like to see a Mac Pro with a single Xeon or 2 C2D's but I can't see apple ever doing it, they've made it clear what product is for who

Krissanda
Dec 10, 2007, 03:28 PM
Ok, all this talk about flash memory and incorporating it into a laptop has got me thinking. Since there are higher capacity flash drives out there now, do you think they'll update the ipod touch at MacWorld in January? Say a 32GB Ipod Touch? I was thinking about a Ipod touch for Christmas but what if they update the line! That would make me very frustrated... and this whole "ultra-portable" thing kind of has me annoyed. What about the people who need updated MBP that have large hard drives and are powerful enough for video editing/photoshop work:confused:? I am one of those people, lol :o

WhiteShadow
Dec 10, 2007, 03:31 PM
I'm surprised it has taken so long for a desktop supplement computer to come out. Something I can edit documents on when I travel that is super light weight and can sync what I want easily before I leave the house.
This will have a huge demand.
And especially with dotmac if you forgot to sync a file before you left you can access it from the web on the subcompact, brilliant!

MacPhilosopher
Dec 10, 2007, 03:40 PM
I reckon that it will be a laptop version of the mac mini as there is the mb & mbp which are the imac & mac pro but there is no mac mini laptop.:)

The Mac Mini and the MacBook are one and the same. My understanding is that the Mini is the MacBook without monitor, keyboard, etc.

Manatee
Dec 10, 2007, 03:41 PM
You have all that in a macbook. Is shrinking the screen by 1" really going to make a difference?
Perhaps another way to approach this thing is, "How would you want it to be different from the MacBook?"

My answer to that (for my own needs) is pretty simple: I want it to be about two pounds lighter than the MacBook. How do you make a MacBook two pounds lighter?

I'll gladly give up the optical drive, so that saves maybe half a pound at most. Beyond that, I'm not sure what it takes to make it lighter -- but I know it can be done because my Sony TX weighs 2.8 pounds _with_ an optical drive. I want a faster processor than the Sony has, and a better keyboard, and a more polished "Apple-like" design, but that's about it. And of course its OS needs to be OS X.

Zadillo
Dec 10, 2007, 03:45 PM
Ok, all this talk about flash memory and incorporating it into a laptop has got me thinking. Since there are higher capacity flash drives out there now, do you think they'll update the ipod touch at MacWorld in January? Say a 32GB Ipod Touch? I was thinking about a Ipod touch for Christmas but what if they update the line! That would make me very frustrated... and this whole "ultra-portable" thing kind of has me annoyed. What about the people who need updated MBP that have large hard drives and are powerful enough for video editing/photoshop work:confused:? I am one of those people, lol :o

What else do you want Apple to do with the MBP exactly? They already recently added a 250GB hard drive as a configurable option, as well as a 2.6GHz C2D CPU.

What changes exactly do you think they could or need to make to make it "powerful enough for video editing/photoshop work"? As it stands, the current MBP is just about as powerful as a mobile platform is going to get.... especially with its weight and size and thickness.

Schtumple
Dec 10, 2007, 03:55 PM
What changes exactly do you think they could or need to make to make it "powerful enough for video editing/photoshop work"? As it stands, the current MBP is just about as powerful as a mobile platform is going to get.... especially with its weight and size and thickness.

I think they want a Xeon MPB :rolleyes:

LeviG
Dec 10, 2007, 04:02 PM
What else do you want Apple to do with the MBP exactly?

Well I'd go for a mobile workstation (quadro or firegl) graphics card as a build to order option as the graphics are pretty lacking for 3d work (in my opinion) - pretty please apple :D

redsox
Dec 10, 2007, 04:10 PM
I suppose I should ask like this....

So having spent my first $$ on a MBP and seeing the iPhones trumphed as well as the new 2.2, 2.4, 2.6 sort of trounce the 2.16 MBP's, will I get burned with a MBP 2.2 that is 3 months old? i.e. sell now or should I just hold on and be productive as I have friends that have lots of $$$$ and they work FULL TIME at home using a g4 Powerbook.

Just want to make sure if I were to sell, it would be timed perfect.

Thanks.
:apple:

Sijmen
Dec 10, 2007, 04:22 PM
Just use your Mac, and when it dies or at one point doesn't do what you want it to anymore, you buy what you want at that time. Then you'd have a rev-C tablet or something.

winterspan
Dec 10, 2007, 04:24 PM
You have all that in a macbook. Is shrinking the screen by 1" really going to make a difference?

Um.. you are only looking at one small value. First of all, that 12" screen could have a smaller bezel thus making it maybe 1.5->2" smaller diagonally. More importantly, based upon reports and other subnotebooks on the market, this laptop will be *MUCH* thinner and *MUCH* lighter than a corresponding 13" Mac Book. Thickness and total weight are more important than the rectangular height*width. A couple of inches in width/height won't matter in someone's bag/case/backpack nearly as much as thickness and especially every pound.

If you don't believe me, go to a Bigbox and compare holding your standard 13-14" / 4.5-5.0lb laptop with a < 3lb smaller model. It makes a huge difference. Even better just take out the battery on your current laptop, and feel the difference when put in a bag.


Not true at all. My wife would want an iMac. She likes things simple and elegant. I would want an xMac because I like dependable hardware, but I also like to upgrade and customize. Why shouldn't I be able to? Or maybe I should ask, why should I have to pay $2500 for Apple's introductory upgradeable machine????!?! That's insane.

You could fit two 18-wheelers in the gapping hole between iMac and Mac Pro... three between the Mini and Pro.

-Clive


Totally agree. Your previous point about Apple's growth vastly exceeding their product diversity was a good one also. It's about time they started to appeal to a broader market. They definitely need a lower cost desktop that comes head-less and with a decent graphics card for the gamers. This same model (xMac or whatever) would also be good for other home/small business users who don't want an iMac, but wouldn't dream of buying a Mac Pro.

I want an xMac too, I just can't see it happening, I'd like to see a Mac Pro with a single Xeon or 2 C2D's but I can't see apple ever doing it, they've made it clear what product is for who

Contrary to what alot of people believe on these forums, Intel's Core2 Quad and Xeon quad-core chips do not cost much more than the dual core variants. This is especially true in regards to the new Penryn chips which are coming out at a price even cheaper than when the original quad core Xeons came out. This is precisely why many assume that the whole line of Mac Pro's will now have only quad core chips (x2 of course).

Additionally, the price falls dramatically as you go down from 3.2ghz to 2.0ghz. 2.33ghz quad-core penryn Xeons are only going to be $250 (lots of 1000) and the 2.5Ghz only $300. In other words, you can get FOUR 2.5Ghz quad-core penryn Xeons for the price of ONE at 3.2Ghz. If apple increases the base price of the Mac Pros just because they all have quad core chips, then you know they are just ripping everybody off as always.


and this whole "ultra-portable" thing kind of has me annoyed. What about the people who need updated MBP that have large hard drives and are powerful enough for video editing/photoshop work:confused:? I am one of those people, lol :o

What? Didn't they just update the MBP? Are you saying that a current MBP cannot handle photoshop work or video editing? HA.
Besides the graphics card, the Macbook Pro is available with top-of-line components and specs. It's routinely found to be one of the fastest "Big Brand" laptops around.

Perhaps another way to approach this thing is, "How would you want it to be different from the MacBook?"

My answer to that (for my own needs) is pretty simple: I want it to be about two pounds lighter than the MacBook. How do you make a MacBook two pounds lighter?

I'll gladly give up the optical drive, so that saves maybe half a pound at most. Beyond that, I'm not sure what it takes to make it lighter -- but I know it can be done because my Sony TX weighs 2.8 pounds _with_ an optical drive. I want a faster processor than the Sony has, and a better keyboard, and a more polished "Apple-like" design, but that's about it. And of course its OS needs to be OS X.

Yep, shed the optical drive, make parts of the case out of carbon fiber (I think some Sony's do this), offer a 3-cell battery along with the standard 6-cell, thin bezel screen, and whatever else magic Apple has in its labs.. :)

Cloudsurfer
Dec 10, 2007, 04:26 PM
"- 2.25 lbs
- 0.7 inches thick
- 14 hours battery life
- NAND Flash
- WiMax, Cellular, WiFi support

As a concept design with no regard to cost, all of these features may not be included in a theoretical Mac laptop, but it does provide an idea of what might be possible with current technology."

Doesn't Toshiba's R500 notebook with 64 GB SSD that's been shipping since July "provide an idea of what might be possible with current technology" or... an idea of what folks expected last Summer from Apple.

From: http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cmod.to?coid=-33781
The Ultimate Ultraportable
With its ultralight design and stunning silhouette, the feather light 1.72 pound*† Portégé® R500 Series is the transcendent expression of executive mobility and style. Offering the world's lightest* widescreen 12.1" notebook PC in one configuration, and the world's thinnest widescreen 12.1" notebook PC with an integrated DVD-SuperMulti drive in another, the Portégé® R500 Series represents an uncompromising synthesis of portability and productivity that's meticulously engineered for the demands of executive computing.Lightest model configuration of 1.72 lbs is based on a 64GB solid state drive (SSD), a 3 cell battery and no optical disk drive. The Portégé® R500 with the solid state drive will not be available until the end of July 2007.

I've quoted the R500 several times before... I think it's what we can expect of the new MacBook. With optical drive, of course. If Toshiba can, Apple can too.

Llewellyn
Dec 10, 2007, 04:32 PM
What I’m hoping for is a MacBook Mini — basically a 12” iPhone with all the power of a regular MacBook. I think this is technically possible, .7 inches (about twice the size of an iPhone) is certainly thick enough.

It will have a full size touch screen and nothing else. Multitouch is the future. (There could be a stylus to make it easy to take notes in class or at meetings, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.)

It would have no keyboard, only the virtual kind similar to the iPhone and a cool virtual thumb pad in the corners for typing on the go. (Apple has a patent for this already.) Apple’s new wireless Bluetooth keyboard will be a perfect accessory.

It would have a webcam, which would also be able to take pictures. (1.3mp like the current iMac camera, or better.)

It will have an Intel Core Duo processor — the latest and greatest.

It will NOT have an optical drive. Media will be downloaded from iTunes. (There is software available to have your DVDs copied onto the NAND drive available from third parties now that don’t break the copyrights. Apple may add something like this or license it or just let you figure it out on your own.)

It will have a 32gb or 64gb NAND drive. NO conventional hard drive will be required.

A copy of the OS will be in a protected portion of the NAND drive like the AppleTV (does the iPhone do it this way?) and will be updated through iTunes.

It will be very light on ports, relying on wireless connectivity. Perhaps wireless USB. Certainly Bluetooth and 802.11n. There may be additional ports in its dock. Firewire and higher is very unlikely due to size and power constraints.

The dock will stand it up like a monitor for use with a conventional keyboard — either Bluetooth, wireless USB or a via port in the dock.

No cellular technology. It will be more like an iPod Touch that way. This will avoid having to make any partnerships.

It will not have GPS (although I wish it would). A third party Bluetooth GPS would be your best bet. A built in one would draw too much power and a cell tower GPS would probably require cellular technology and a partnership.

There are many excellent business and marketing reasons for selling this kind of laptop, but I’ll only go into those if asked. Before you say it’s not going to happen, think back to last years MacWorld. Did you see the iPhone coming? Most thought it would be a very good, but conventional cell phone. Few thought it would be the rule changing mega success that it was. Apple could easily be planning to do it again.

Llewellyn

awgoo
Dec 10, 2007, 04:36 PM
is it just me or does a flash only notebook sound weird? i mean, what's the largest capacity flash card that's available right now? not that big right? it seems to me that apple could use the ipod classic hard drives. (80 & 160 gb) i hope apple will supply an external cd/dvd drive or at least sell it seperately as an accessory. i've been waiting for a slim macbook for about two years now. i hope apple doesn't disappoint us. a new laptop and a new iphone? can't wait till january!!

Clive At Five
Dec 10, 2007, 04:38 PM
I want an xMac too, I just can't see it happening, I'd like to see a Mac Pro with a single Xeon or 2 C2D's but I can't see apple ever doing it, they've made it clear what product is for who

Pardon?? "Prosumer" is a well-documented demographic.

Apple's stubbornness is not a good excuse for why there *shouldn't* be a computer for one, although it's an adequate explanation for why there isn't. Apple needs to pull its head out of its ass and realize that we exist and that we WANT TO SPEND MONEY ON THEIR HARDWARE.

And as for your stats: IMO, a single desktop-class C2D would be JUST FINE. If it's not soldered and socket-compatible with Penryn, bonus. It's the expanadbility inside that I care most about though. I truly fail to see what Apple's big hangup is on limiting this to "Pros" is. Something so simple as adding a second HDD... warrants buying a $2500 dual-dual Xeon FB-DIMM-using beast?

Ridiculous.

-Clive

olternaut
Dec 10, 2007, 04:47 PM
tablet

TABLET!

RoDe
Dec 10, 2007, 04:49 PM
These ultra portable are nice but not for me. Not powerful enough. Wonder how they will tackle the heat issue. With the Hd gone they loose one major contributor when it comes to heat creation. But if their going to squeeze a 2,0 C2D Ghz processor in there, it will become one hot little machine.

I still hope Apple will squeeze in an optical drive. It will make it so much more appealing to many people.

Hope the aluminium casing doesn't suck as hard as the casing on the MBP 15 and 17.

Well I'm just gonna wait till they do something better than the current MBP's, before I'll buy a new MBP. Have a 2.4 MBP right now and it just doesn't do it for me. Really not satisfied with it. Had it for 6 month's now and it's going up for sale.

TurboSC
Dec 10, 2007, 05:04 PM
TABLET!

highly doubtful... I don't think they've refined the technology enough yet.

Possibly in a few years :P

lazyrighteye
Dec 10, 2007, 05:10 PM
Wow... slow day? :p

iPoodOverZune
Dec 10, 2007, 06:20 PM
I suppose I should ask like this....

So having spent my first $$ on a MBP and seeing the iPhones trumphed as well as the new 2.2, 2.4, 2.6 sort of trounce the 2.16 MBP's, will I get burned with a MBP 2.2 that is 3 months old? i.e. sell now or should I just hold on and be productive as I have friends that have lots of $$$$ and they work FULL TIME at home using a g4 Powerbook.

Just want to make sure if I were to sell, it would be timed perfect.

Thanks.
:apple:

Helleluiah! i have PB G4 from 2003 and with leopard (1GB RAM, one RAM slot dead, HDD replaced to 160 GB 5400.3 seagate) and going pretty nice. And I do a lot of MS Office, simulations and editing work on it. Surprisingly, Leopard work pretty nicely on it. Still good to go for another year. Will jump next perhaps at the end of next year, once I get a clue where mobile penryn is headed or what mobile intel "gets inside" in a year.
If you will keep looking at technological advancements, either you will never buy anything or you will always salivate to sell your just last version to buy just the latest version!!

rtdunham
Dec 10, 2007, 07:00 PM
thanks for a very good job of reporting.

as for the anticipated computer, consider the illustration of the Intel prototype: no doubt with a multi-touch touchscreen on that outer face, apple could come up with some useful features and applications to convince us that damn, this IS something we didn't know we needed, but do.

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/07/05/0524_metrolaptop/image/intro.jpg

paja
Dec 10, 2007, 07:18 PM
I agree, this lack of announcement of a killer MacPro is just driving me crazy.
I really look forward to the most powerful Mac ever than all this talk about ultra-portable.
Apple needs to address their most faithful users. The creative pro community.

Please bring alongside new displays and a new design for MacPro as well.

I believe we will see new Mac Pro's at MacWorld or just prior to it. Hopefully in a new enclosure. It feels like it's been 10 years since the last update. How about a nice little holiday announcement for the beleaguered pro community.

I will be very peed if it's not happening.

redsox
Dec 10, 2007, 07:26 PM
Helleluiah! i have PB G4 from 2003 and with leopard (1GB RAM, one RAM slot dead, HDD replaced to 160 GB 5400.3 seagate) and going pretty nice. And I do a lot of MS Office, simulations and editing work on it. Surprisingly, Leopard work pretty nicely on it. Still good to go for another year. Will jump next perhaps at the end of next year, once I get a clue where mobile penryn is headed or what mobile intel "gets inside" in a year.
If you will keep looking at technological advancements, either you will never buy anything or you will always salivate to sell your just last version to buy just the latest version!!

:) glad I could be of service :D

Yes, its true, one person is a FOLEY editor and does most of his work at home on a G4, DV Toolkit, Translator and has no problems at all. On the flip side, I know I could get at least $1750, especially since a) Its loaded with software and b) I can get a apple product courtesy of a apple friend for 25% off. However, I was also thinking if it were possible to swap out the CPU on this 3 month old CPU, but someone in another forum said they are using a new chipset? Since when? I thought the MBP LED were the newest?

Not sure if it can be done (soldered on I think).

DPazdanISU
Dec 10, 2007, 07:27 PM
I'm a friend of someone that works for a supplier of parts for apple (can't say which!). But he knows for a fact apple will be coming out with an ultra portable early 08. Now whether or not it is a tablet, or incorpates flash or "touch" technology he is not sure. Trust me though, they are coming our with a smaller form factor laptop very soon. Woot! :D

iMJustAGuy
Dec 10, 2007, 07:31 PM
I see absolutely no point in a 12" ultraportable. The macbook is 13" and i'm sure that one inch isn't going to make a difference. Seems like a pointless product.

with all do respect, that is your opinion, and you see no point in it. But for others like me, it would be simply magnificant, and it is been exactly what i have been waiting for. :rolleyes::apple:

Chupa Chupa
Dec 10, 2007, 07:32 PM
I believe we will see new Mac Pro's at MacWorld or just prior to it. Hopefully in a new enclosure. It feels like it's been 10 years since the last update. How about a nice little holiday announcement for the beleaguered pro community.

I will be very peed if it's not happening.


I read somewhere that Apple WILL NOT be attending NAB this year. Perhaps that is a clue. I think it is and interpret it as this: new MPs + Blu-Ray burner BTO + a free FCPS upgrade that adds native Blu-Ray burning support. The only wrinkle might be that the Blu-Ray support also requires a video card with HDCP.

Back to the Ultra Portable...I know I'm dreaming here but I'd love it if it was a convertible table form factor with the iPhones touch capabilities, but also could be used as an e-reader. Apple could sell e-Books on iTMS. Just dreaming, but it would be cool. I love the e-Reader concept, just not the Sony or Amazon readers.

Chupa Chupa
Dec 10, 2007, 07:36 PM
You have all that in a macbook. Is shrinking the screen by 1" really going to make a difference?

You are also sheddeing 2lbs, and yes, that can make a huge difference if you are a Road Warrior schlepping down the concourse in ATL or ORD a few times a week or month. Or even if you are a college student and need to go cross campus.

jedivulcan
Dec 10, 2007, 07:38 PM
Apple can't compete with a 1500 dollar sub-notebook Macintosh computer with the attention the Asus EeePC has been getting lately. Apple has too much to contend with already with the Macbook and Macbook Pro models competing and being close in performance and processor specification. A $1500 subnotebook would just be hard to sell next to them. It's better in Apple's interest to put something out there to supplement their sub-desktop Mac Mini and have each product team up in pairs (Mac Mini, Macbook Mini) (iMac, Macbook) (Macbook Pro, Mac Pro). That's the way I see it.

iViking
Dec 10, 2007, 07:43 PM
At this point, I just want Apple to put out quality products.

Sure, innovation is fun.

But the heat, bugs, fit and finish issues, and don't get me started on the displays, and other general quality problems are just getting brutal.

It is stressful to open a new Mac. You just don't know what you are going to get.

I would love to buy something like this to complement my 17", but the quality problems are just too brutal with Apple of late.

I'm with you on that one.

viniciusc
Dec 10, 2007, 07:44 PM
Yeah, that would be like a reborn Powerbook 12", just like Apple did to the Cube with the Mini.

AidenShaw
Dec 10, 2007, 08:12 PM
Still good to go for another year. Will jump next perhaps at the end of next year, once I get a clue where mobile penryn is headed or what mobile intel "gets inside" in a year.

Sounds like the Montevina (http://www.dailytech.com/Intels+Montevina+Platform+Detailed+Centrino+for+2008/article5919.htm) due out next summer would be a good target for your next purchase.

Montevina is an update to the Santa Rosa. It will use the Penryn mobile processors...



If you will keep looking at technological advancements, either you will never buy anything or you will always salivate to sell your just last version to buy just the latest version!!

Good reason to get Montevina in the summer. If you wait until fall, you'll be looking at Nehalem coming in a few months....

Chupa Chupa
Dec 10, 2007, 08:27 PM
Apple can't compete with a 1500 dollar sub-notebook Macintosh computer with the attention the Asus EeePC has been getting lately. Apple has too much to contend with already with the Macbook and Macbook Pro models competing and being close in performance and processor specification. A $1500 subnotebook would just be hard to sell next to them. It's better in Apple's interest to put something out there to supplement their sub-desktop Mac Mini and have each product team up in pairs (Mac Mini, Macbook Mini) (iMac, Macbook) (Macbook Pro, Mac Pro). That's the way I see it.

Yeah, just like Apple couldn't compete with MP3 players and cell phones. If you don't think Apple can't out cool Asus you're in the wrong forum. C'mon, Asus?! And last I checked the Asus doesn't run OS X, but an Apple sub would run Windows.

And why would Apple do better trying to supplement a low profit sub-desktop when the sales and money is in laptops?

Mal
Dec 10, 2007, 08:44 PM
Toshiba Enters Solid-State with 128GB Drive (http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/12/10/toshiba.solid.state.drives/)

This could be just what it takes to make flash drives appealing to computer manufacturers. A fast, big, flash drive that doesn't sacrifice the advantages of a conventional hard drive or the advantages of a flash drive. At 128GB, it's larger than what I've currently got installed in my computer, and more than most of Apple's current lineup has by default (in laptops, that is).

I can see Apple offering a subportable with one of those available in it.

jW

segfaultdotorg
Dec 10, 2007, 09:19 PM
Re: Ultra-portable MacBook

Send pic!

rockos
Dec 10, 2007, 09:29 PM
i love my macbook.... and it is about time apple brought out an ultra portible... i mean compare it to the dell XPS M1330.

it has basically everything the apple ultra portable should have...of course it doesnt come with leopard...
the dell can get flash memory....
better video cards
hdmi out
dvd slot loader burner.
and is less than an inch...
oh and has the new LED screens

rockos

IzzyJG99
Dec 10, 2007, 09:51 PM
Personally I am hoping it's more or less a big iPod Touch, you know what I mean? Like an iBook/MacBook meets a Newton meets an iPod Touch.

StevenBallmer
Dec 10, 2007, 10:01 PM
This is not happening!
It can't be!
Please tell me it's not!

olternaut
Dec 10, 2007, 11:03 PM
http://www.frankreinders.nl/foto/800/touch_main.jpg

Me likes very much. And for the whiners you could have a very sleekly designed wireless rechargeable keyboard (that you can attach and/or seperate) to go along with it. :):D

TurboSC
Dec 11, 2007, 02:15 AM
Me likes very much. And for the whiners you could have a very sleekly designed wireless rechargeable keyboard (that you can attach and/or seperate) to go along with it. :):D

I dunno the way a touch setup would work on a current "monitor" stand would really fatigue your arms in a few hours..

I think if Apple were to come out with a touch computer, the screen itself would probably be angled in a way that it sits on a table... or I dunno that's a really tough obstacle to overcome really. :/

bobovic64
Dec 11, 2007, 03:16 AM
I'm a mac newbie (purchased 24" imac in October) and I really need a new laptop for a job in January. Based on experience, is it likely that (assuming it exists) this rumoured 'ultraportable' will be announced in January, a la iphone, or it will be released in January. Thanks for your help.

Sijmen
Dec 11, 2007, 03:30 AM
I wouldn't count on anything at all.

GekkePrutser
Dec 11, 2007, 05:10 AM
Are you kidding me?? You are SERIOUSLY comparing a high-end subnotebook to an EEPC? I think you are totally missing the point.

I'm already sick of people comparing this to the stupid EEPC and saying "Apple is a ripoff, I can get an EEPC/Fooleo/[insert cheap POS here] for $300..."
Thats like a "my first laptop" childrens toy compared to what Apple will bring out.


No, I wasn't comparing them at all. I know the EEEPC is nothing like a real UMPC. I meant that I would like Apple to bring something out that would be more like the EEEPC. That would be much more useful to me than the high-end ultramobile that is currently rumored.

There is a reason these 'cheap POS's keep popping up all over the place, and there definitely is a market for them. I wouldn't mind having one with an apple logo on it (and a bit less cheap, of course).

Besides a high-end ultramobile MBP it would be great to have a cheaper ultramobile MB for the really mundane tasks of mobile email checking, browsing, simple email typing. An iPhone is simply too awkward for that (small screen, no keyboard, software too basic), and the EEEPC fits that role very nicely. It would just be great having something similar (at a higher price of course, Apple is simply not a budget brand).

pob100
Dec 11, 2007, 05:33 AM
While we're all waiting for Apple to get its tablet out in January, Dell have stolen a march and put out a tablet today!

Ooohhh doesn't it look gorgeous! Only $2499! Form a queue Apple fanboys!

http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006046.html

olternaut
Dec 11, 2007, 07:27 AM
I dunno the way a touch setup would work on a current "monitor" stand would really fatigue your arms in a few hours..

I think if Apple were to come out with a touch computer, the screen itself would probably be angled in a way that it sits on a table... or I dunno that's a really tough obstacle to overcome really. :/

Actually, I'm a fan of the smaller handheld mockups of mactouches that have been making the rounds on the net. But of this particular model I would assume that if you chose to hook this up to its little monitor stand you would then interface with it by using a wireless keyboard that has some built in multitouch for mousing.
But really, for a mactouch I would hope it would be a touch smaller with no stand.

olternaut
Dec 11, 2007, 07:28 AM
While we're all waiting for Apple to get its tablet out in January, Dell have stolen a march and put out a tablet today!

Ooohhh doesn't it look gorgeous! Only $2499! Form a queue Apple fanboys!

http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006046.html

meh.

MrCrowbar
Dec 11, 2007, 07:38 AM
Yeah, that would be like a reborn Powerbook 12", just like Apple did to the Cube with the Mini.

Word! Just Intel-ize the 12" powerbook already. Everytime I see one, I'm all jealous about how nice and small they are. Superdrive and 2.5" HDD are good for me. If the battery wouldn't go down to 60% after 80 cycles (like my Macbook's), it would be a neat machine.

ncbill
Dec 11, 2007, 08:08 AM
Since you can buy a car for what that 128GB SSD will cost, it's not something we'll be seeing in a $1500 notebook.

32GB SSD is the size that would make sense for a $1500 notebook.

That's still pretty chintzy for a 2008 notebook, so I hope it is as easy to swap hard drives as in the current MacBook (250GB is approaching $125 retail)

Remember, the only real advantage SSD has over a conventional 2.5" drive in current consumer notebooks is shock resistance.

The power savings of a SSD don't get you much more runtime because other systems in the notebook use far more power than the hard drive.

Toshiba Enters Solid-State with 128GB Drive (http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/12/10/toshiba.solid.state.drives/)

This could be just what it takes to make flash drives appealing to computer manufacturers. A fast, big, flash drive that doesn't sacrifice the advantages of a conventional hard drive or the advantages of a flash drive. At 128GB, it's larger than what I've currently got installed in my computer, and more than most of Apple's current lineup has by default (in laptops, that is).

I can see Apple offering a subportable with one of those available in it.

jW

Mal
Dec 11, 2007, 09:27 AM
Since you can buy a car for what that 128GB SSD will cost, it's not something we'll be seeing in a $1500 notebook.

32GB SSD is the size that would make sense for a $1500 notebook.

That's still pretty chintzy for a 2008 notebook, so I hope it is as easy to swap hard drives as in the current MacBook (250GB is approaching $125 retail)

Remember, the only real advantage SSD has over a conventional 2.5" drive in current consumer notebooks is shock resistance.

The power savings of a SSD don't get you much more runtime because other systems in the notebook use far more power than the hard drive.

They haven't announced prices yet, and I didn't say it'd be standard (nor in a $1500 price point). It could be an option, however, and it likely won't be as expensive as you're expecting either (no more than $600 Apple's cost I would think, since they can likely get the 32GB's for about $250 from what I've heard).

jW

AidenShaw
Dec 11, 2007, 09:29 AM
...it likely won't be as expensive as you're expecting either (no more than $600 Apple's cost I would think,...

Checked Apple's RAM or disk prices lately?

Apple's not in the habit of passing savings on component costs along to the consumer.

gotohamish
Dec 11, 2007, 10:55 AM
I think the power saving from an SSD could offset the extra power used by wireless broadband.

Forgive me if this has been touched upon, but it's possible Apple's exclusive relationship with AT&T involves putting EDGE or 3G receivers into it's as-yet-unannounced ultra-portable MacBook Pro so users can sign up for AT&T data services and not require an ugly usb stick or a PCI Express port.

I'd be all over that. The money's waiting.

takao
Dec 11, 2007, 11:05 AM
I think the power saving from an SSD could offset the extra power used by wireless broadband.

Forgive me if this has been touched upon, but it's possible Apple's exclusive relationship with AT&T involves putting EDGE or 3G receivers into it's as-yet-unannounced ultra-portable MacBook Pro so users can sign up for AT&T data services and not require an ugly usb stick or a PCI Express port.

I'd be all over that. The money's waiting.

now _that's_ what i call a cutting edge feature
afaik some higher class sony laptops which got released recently have some HSDPA built in which i found i really good idea ... especially when i look at the fast growing market for such external devices

zlinger
Dec 11, 2007, 11:12 AM
Can someone PLEASEEE PLEEEEASSE tell me that Apple will release a Black 12" MBP with iSight camera, and 128G's of flash. I don't care about an optical drive. My credit card is staring at me saying... "Buy a Mac... Buy a Mac...":D

LizKat
Dec 11, 2007, 11:20 AM
... 128G's of flash.... My credit card is staring at me saying... "Buy a Mac... Buy a Mac..."

Whose credit card could carry the freight on 128G of flash???!!! I'd be in the bank trying to get them to understand why a computer loan is as good a risk as a car loan, doh.

ncbill
Dec 11, 2007, 11:40 AM
Wonder what Apple's markup would be over current retail:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820609245

They haven't announced prices yet, and I didn't say it'd be standard (nor in a $1500 price point). It could be an option, however, and it likely won't be as expensive as you're expecting either (no more than $600 Apple's cost I would think, since they can likely get the 32GB's for about $250 from what I've heard).

gotohamish
Dec 11, 2007, 11:46 AM
Wonder what Apple's markup would be over current retail:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820609245

It's hilarious how one of the reviewers says it greatly improves the speed of his virus scans. Priceless.

MattyCurry
Dec 11, 2007, 11:53 AM
I don't see why people think a laptop like this would need a big hardrive?

I want a laptop that I can move about a lot with, that I can stick in my bag and run full pelt for the train/plane/whatever that I need to get onto to get to where I'm doing my job this week. When I'm at home, I have a 500GB freeagent drive that has everything I need on it, when I'm on the move, I have a 12GB lacie drive, I transfer files between the 2.

honest to goodness, I could live with 32GB easily - I was only few couple of years ago where this was a standard size for laptop drives.

Butthead
Dec 11, 2007, 11:59 AM
Can someone PLEASEEE PLEEEEASSE tell me that Apple will release a Black 12" MBP with iSight camera, and 128G's of flash. I don't care about an optical drive. My credit card is staring at me saying... "Buy a Mac... Buy a Mac...":D

Nope, can't tell you that, 128GB SSD NAND flash drives are just too expensive currently even at Apple's discount, 64GB is the largest you could expect *now*. Wait until next summer for lower cost 128GB. Could be from Mtron if you need highest performance, or could be slightly slower drives from either Samsung or Toshiba.

http://www.dvnation.com/ssd.html

Interestingly, probably both Toshiba and Samsung will release 128GB in 1.8in format size, but could lower priced a 256GB 2.5in be in the works also, that would be the ideal replacement for a 7.2k rpm 2.5in HD?.

Toshiba enters solid-state with 128GB drive
http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/12/10/toshiba.solid.state.drives/


http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/21/mtron_ssd_32_gb/
And despite the fact that there are 64 and 128 GB Flash SSDs are around (Supertalent has one), capacity and cost per capacity make these drives a distant prospect for most of us.

This won't change until probably the middle of 2008, when 64 GB Flash SSDs will move below the $300 price range. But there is movement at the very high-end: Memory maker Mtron has sent us two of his latest 2.5" 32 GB SSD drives, which Mtron claims to reach 100 MB/s and to dispose of the performance shortcomings at random writes. Let's see what the Mtron drives can do. Once again we benchmarked it by itself and two of them in a RAID 0 array. We also compared it to the same setups using SanDisk's Flash SSD 5000 and added a Western Digital WD1500 Raptor (10,000 RPM SATA) for the sake of comparison.

CommanderData
Dec 11, 2007, 12:03 PM
Whose credit card could carry the freight on 128G of flash???!!! I'd be in the bank trying to get them to understand why a computer loan is as good a risk as a car loan, doh.

Meh, I bought a new car with my credit card several years ago with the low interest "Convenience" checks they send you in the mail periodically (yes, it's paid for now). Not all Apple fans are starving artists and college students.

I agree with the idea that 128GB of Flash is ridiculous to hope for right now since it will add several thousand USD to the cost of an Ultraportable, and that would severly limit its market. My bet is 32GB standard, 64GB optional.

SSDs are definitely worth going for. I have one (32GB Samsung SSD) in my Fujitsu P1610, swapped out the standard hard drive for it. The SSD had a noticable effect on speed an better battery life, in addition to being completely silent! It's strange to use a computer that makes no noise whatsoever... I can't wait until Apple finally releases a small MB Pro so I can ditch the windows world.

AidenShaw
Dec 11, 2007, 12:16 PM
now _that's_ what i call a cutting edge feature
afaik some higher class sony laptops which got released recently have some HSDPA built in which i found i really good idea ... especially when i look at the fast growing market for such external devices

My Dell Latitude that was shipped in June 2006 has built-in 3G cellular wireless (EV-DO). (It's so old, it shipped two months before the Mac Pro was last updated.)

Current Dell options are:

Mobile Broadband

Use integrated mobile broadband from Dell to access email and the Internet through Cingular, Verizon or Sprint Wireless cellular networks, with download speeds averaging 400Kbps to 700Kbps - about as fast as some DSL lines.

Please note that you will also need a wireless subscription from Cingular, Verizon or Sprint Wireless (additional daily or monthly access fees will apply).

Select options below
o None

o Verizon Wireless built-in mobile broadband (EV-DO Rev A) [add $149]

o Sprint built-in mobile broadband (EV-DO Rev A) [add $149]

o AT&T built-in mobile broadband (HSDPA 3.6) [add $199]

HP, Lenovo and others have been offering 3G as well.

Apple is one of the few major portable vendors not to offer cellular broadband.

kas23
Dec 11, 2007, 12:35 PM
If I saw one of those Mac Touches, I would buy it in a second. What we need is a device (not necessarily a notebook) that does not really act as a stand-alone device, but a supplement to a desktop/Laptop.

And I think people are missing the point with the Asus eee. It is not a notebook equivalent. It is not a substitute for a nice, powerful home computer. However, its power lies in its portability and its price. For what you get, you cannot compare its price tag of $399/$499 with that of a smallish notebook costly over $1500. I just don't see the big advantage of a 12 inch notebook costing over $2000? If you are going to spend that much, get a MB or MBP. As for the Asus, it does most basic jobs (except bluetooth) and the price is GREAT. And you can now get it in 8G and 1G RAM. The only thing that is stopping me from buying this is if Mac comes out with a larger iPod touch in January (for around $500).

ckurowic
Dec 11, 2007, 01:37 PM
I see some potential here. I'm thinking about buying an iMac in the near future. Then I'll still have my PowerBook 12" for the on-the-road stuff. When it dies, I could replace it with the ultraportable :)

In another 10 years?

Lesser Evets
Dec 11, 2007, 02:22 PM
I heard from EXTREMELY reliable sources that this is all miscommunicated. You know how this 'telephone' game goes. But, this very, very, very reliable source said APPLE is going to release a 4 stroke engine to be used in a variety of devices. Apple is going head to head with Briggs and Straton. This is VERY reliable (*elevator not included).

Actually, if it isn't able to be used as an art tablet, it's useless. To me. Assuming this rumor is anywhere near true.

Apple need an ultra thin, ultra-portable, reading/writing (art) tablet with wifi-bluetooth capabilities so it can be an internet machine round the workplace, house, school, train station, etc. The pity of no optical drive is the lack of watching DVDs on the move... but i would just rip with mac The Ripper.

A device like this should have been developed and released 3 years ago, and Apple is probably missing out on a very available, lucrative, soon to be developed market. They could have been leading this.

TurboSC
Dec 11, 2007, 02:29 PM
I heard from EXTREMELY reliable sources that this is all miscommunicated. You know how this 'telephone' game goes. But, this very, very, very reliable source said APPLE is going to release a 4 stroke engine to be used in a variety of devices. Apple is going head to head with Briggs and Straton. This is VERY reliable (*elevator not included).

Actually, if it isn't able to be used as an art tablet, it's useless. To me. Assuming this rumor is anywhere near true.

Apple need an ultra thin, ultra-portable, reading/writing (art) tablet with wifi-bluetooth capabilities so it can be an internet machine round the workplace, house, school, train station, etc. The pity of no optical drive is the lack of watching DVDs on the move... but i would just rip with mac The Ripper.

A device like this should have been developed and released 3 years ago, and Apple is probably missing out on a very available, lucrative, soon to be developed market. They could have been leading this.


Trust me, I'm a graphic / visual effects / broadcast designer, and I would definitely enjoy a art tablet from Apple.

It just seems too out of the price range and target market Apple is trying to pull in at the moment.

I can see maybe if Apple were to acquire Adobe, rework the software for CS4 to work around touch controls etc, and then released a line of professional tablets, then it would be a huge success. Multi-Touch interface within photoshop / illustrator... that's a definite "sold" on my credit card.

Lesser Evets
Dec 11, 2007, 02:35 PM
Trust me, I'm a graphic / visual effects / broadcast designer, and I would definitely enjoy a art tablet from Apple.

It just seems too out of the price range and target market Apple is trying to pull in at the moment.

It might be out of the price range, but I somehow doubt it. I bet a nice $1000 tablet-laptop-portable could be made. No optical drive, no HD (or a small HD)? Glass top, multi touch? WiFi-Bluetooth? Not hard at all. There is INKWELL, which is most ways to what we need for writing and art on Macs at the moment, just needs a slight development nudge into the next level.

Take the $1100 MacBook, put the screen in the keyboard area, eliminate the hard drive, maybe the optical drive, eliminate the DVI connection, eliminate the digital optical, eliminate one USB. VIOLA! It is a very cheap Mac In Touch.

I believe it is quite possible, and there is a market.

You know how many kids LOVE doing art on computers? The price would help to be under $700, but the drool factor of portable art would sell it. As for the rest: a writing tablet instead of typing tablet, would be perfect for so many in the business sector. It's a logical jump, but I just think no one has valued that possible market yet. It exists.
http://www.frankreinders.nl/foto/800/touch_main.jpg

The Mac In Touch would be excellent.

redsox
Dec 11, 2007, 03:00 PM
The Mac In Touch would be excellent.

No offense but something like that mac in touch would be the biggest blunder EVER in the history of the computers, second only to the "cube" as you would have arm fatigue in less than an hour.

The only way this would ever, EVER work, would be if the touch was at an angle on the desk where you looked down and even then, your neck would get strained. I just don't see how the so called touch would ever be successful unless it was more like a mixer and you looked "down" toward it. Then maybe it would be a good product. Try holding your arm out for 15 minutes....see how bad it gets. The product would have to be down, like a mixer. :apple:

cheers:cool:

psychofreak
Dec 11, 2007, 03:01 PM
No offense but something like that mac in touch would be the biggest blunder EVER in the history of the computers, second only to the "cube" as you would have arm fatigue in less than an hour.

The only way this would ever, EVER work, would be if the touch was at an angle on the desk where you looked down and even then, your neck would get strained. I just don't see how the so called touch would ever be successful unless it was more like a mixer and you looked "down" toward it. Then maybe it would be a good product. Try holding your arm out for 15 minutes....see how bad it gets. The product would have to be down, like a mixer. :apple:


The iMac G4's design would be good for this, as you could position it to exactly where you want...

laxxm3
Dec 11, 2007, 03:09 PM
I think Apple is really relying on user data on how consumers use their laptops. They will keep the desktop replacement notebooks (mac book/mac book pro) in the line up, because this is not ment to replace them yet. This notebook will be a media/web/ (video) messaging machine. This machine will appeal to people that already have a main computer to burn discs etc. Thats why they will not include an optical drive. It possibly might be packing some form of 3g connectivity besides wifi and bluetooth.


This notebook will use flash storage to reduce or eliminate boot up times and to have an instant on effect. I think they will include some sort hard drive with at least 80gb of storage.

The ultra portable will use an LED display that will serve two purposes. One, will be to increase battery life and the other to make the display slightly thinner. It will also use intel's new 45 nanometer chipset to save battery life and use for a smaller/thinner design

The real mystery is how are the engineers at Apple going to incorporate Multi-Touch into this unit. I doubt that Macworld will come and go without Apple releasing a new product that does not incoporate multi touch. They have invested a lot of stake in it and Steve said in his iphone keynote last year that they have developed the new generation method of input. Mac World is as big a stage as it gets.

The track pad as it currently is has limited multi touch capabilities (scrolling and right-clicking) and Apple likes to innovate, so I doubt we will see a track pad with more expanded features (like the pinch).

My bet is that Apple blows us a way with a true multi touch interface like the iphone, all signs point to the features that have been pointed out in recent patent filings and that everyone is calling multi touch 2.0. This will not be a tablet, it will be a notebook with the keyboard and track pad replaced by a glass surface leaving the main LED finger print free.

Appleinsider had info that this year apple was coming out with a "ground breaking product" and 9to5mac.com keeps hinting that their is not going to be a trackpad so I think the use of multi touch in the new notebook is a def a possibility.

I also believe the appropriate features of multi touch 2.0 will trickle down into the 3g iphone that will come out in May/June 08.

redsox
Dec 11, 2007, 03:28 PM
I think Apple is really relying on user data on how consumers use their laptops. They will keep the desktop replacement notebooks (mac book/mac book pro) in the line up, because this is not ment to replace them yet. This notebook will be a media/web/ (video) messaging machine. This machine will appeal to people that already have a main computer to burn discs etc. Thats why they will not include an optical drive. It possibly might be packing some form of 3g connectivity besides wifi and bluetooth.


This notebook will use flash storage to reduce or eliminate boot up times and to have an instant on effect. I think they will include some sort hard drive with at least 80gb of storage.

The ultra portable will use an LED display that will serve two purposes. One, will be to increase battery life and the other to make the display slightly thinner. It will also use intel's new 45 nanometer chipset to save battery life and use for a smaller/thinner design

The real mystery is how are the engineers at Apple going to incorporate Multi-Touch into this unit. I doubt that Macworld will come and go without Apple releasing a new product that does not incoporate multi touch. They have invested a lot of stake in it and Steve said in his iphone keynote last year that they have developed the new generation method of input. Mac World is as big a stage as it gets.

The track pad as it currently is has limited multi touch capabilities (scrolling and right-clicking) and Apple likes to innovate, so I doubt we will see a track pad with more expanded features (like the pinch).

My bet is that Apple blows us a way with a true multi touch interface like the iphone, all signs point to the features that have been pointed out in recent patent filings and that everyone is calling multi touch 2.0. This will not be a tablet, it will be a notebook with the keyboard and track pad replaced by a glass surface leaving the main LED finger print free.

Appleinsider had info that this year apple was coming out with a "ground breaking product" and 9to5mac.com keeps hinting that their is not going to be a trackpad so I think the use of multi touch in the new notebook is a def a possibility.

I also believe the appropriate features of multi touch 2.0 will trickle down into the 3g iphone that will come out in May/June 08.

You know, as a "creative" person that has recently switched to MAC (had them in the studio of course), it bothers me that Apple has focused more on the "consumer" rather than the Pro and Pro-sumers (home studios), yet at the same time, with their efforts being garnered toward the consumer, that they have yet to release a product that comes in under $1000 that allows for high end gaming. (pinheads).

You see, Apple is so afraid that should they ever release something in the $500 range (that would be bought up by the masses if if had a HIGH GPU clock, good framerates), that pro and prosumers would buy this product as it would translate into a semi good workstation for video use. Still, it bugs me that they can't figure out how to release a DECENT product, at a good price point for gaming and or video use. Maybe it will come when Jonathan takes over, maybe not.

Sure, you could argue that PC's are the gaming machine(s), however, a Mac Pro (old defaul 7300GT (several years old) and Mac Book Pro's have a decent card which plays games fine, but to pay $1199 (iMac) just for a GPU (that is much slower by the way - worse, the newer Macbook X300 is horrible, (old macbook with leopard XBENCH score was 170%, now=87% (talk about raped)), leaves something to be desired.

I think they should revamp the whole line with the MacPro coming in with at least a 7600GTS, and the bottom of the line mini's with a good laptop GPU. They shouldn't be so afraid and with them NOT focusing on the PRO as often, I don't think they would have anything to worry about. (Sometimes I wonder, as the folks on osx86 (myself included), have built machines with GREAT GPU's and while I own a MBP, its nice to know that "I can" build a machine with a decent GPU - mines a 7600GTS with core/quart enabled.

Just some thoughts.

PS. FWIW, the iMAC stalls and stutters if you try to view FCP on the timeline - the only way to get semi decent results is to play it back in FULL SCREEN so it doesn't have to draw the timeline, mixer, so even the iMac isn't an option resulting in at least a $1999 investment for decent graphics.
:apple:

mandoman
Dec 11, 2007, 04:27 PM
Meanwhile, Dell announces it's first tablet, and Toshiba
updates theirs:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2230970,00.asp?sp=0&kc=DTEWK121107TECH

KissStephanie
Dec 11, 2007, 05:06 PM
Remember what others said about no floppy drive on new iMacs?Yes, but those iMacs had optical drives instead so a floppy drive was not crucial any more. If optical drives are removed for this sub-portable, then what replaces the optical drive?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Zoso.svg/70px-Zoso.svg.png