what's your definition of a date?

[shadowfax]

as inspired by wdlove, you can also call this thread "the dating thread," though i liked wdlove's unwitting reference to everyone's favorite thread.

so i ask the question to you--what makes a date? what makes a good date? is there any point to dating? do you think there's anything wrong with the "modern" "system" of dating? care to share some good/bad experiences, give pointers to the rest of us computer-bound losers?

have at you, guys! ;)

[wdlove]

Originally posted by shadowfax
as inspired by wdlove, you can also call this thread "the dating thread," though i liked wdlove's unwitting reference to everyone's favorite thread.

so i ask the question to you--what makes a date? what makes a good date? is there any point to dating? do you think there's anything wrong with the "modern" "system" of dating? care to share some good/bad experiences, give pointers to the rest of us computer-bound losers?

have at you, guys! ;)

Thank you for the consideration shadowfax, it make me feel humble. I wasn't sure if you were serious. I'm anxiously awaiting your post on the subject!

[Stelliform]

I think a good date is one that you are so happy and excited that you can't stop smiling after the date. (And one where the farthest you went was a kiss. ;))

But, I never was much into dating. I am so glad that I am married now, so I don't have to try anymore. ;) :p

[Daveman Deluxe]

My definition of "a date" is found in Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary: "an appointment for a specified time, especially a social engagement with the opposite sex". I also expand that to include groups of people in which both sexes are represented.

Best date ever: my senior prom. We were both there mostly to dance and talk and hold hands and have fun. That's the key to having a good (single) date: both parties should be there for the same (or similar) purpose and then just do it. That's why the senior prom beat the snot out of most of the other dates I've been on.

I think the main problem with the "modern" system of dating is that it prematurely connotes ownership and exclusivity. Another big issue I have with it is that a lot of people are in it for what ego can get out of it, not for what the other person involved can get out of it. I suppose that's not so much a problem with the system itself as it is with an abuse of the system. Also, the importance of meeting a the other person's family is minimized. Perhaps Gaylord Focker should have thought of meeting Pam's parents BEFORE asking her to marry him. As my friend put it, "If you get married, you're marrying the family too. Even if she hates her parents, she's still a product of them."

[Mr. Anderson]

what is a date? For the wife and I, we try and get out on a date night once a week. Not quite the same once you're married ;)

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by wdlove
Thank you for the consideration shadowfax, it make me feel humble. I wasn't sure if you were serious. I'm anxiously awaiting your post on the subject! heh. i never joke, unless i'm kidding. i don't see why this would humble you, though.

i have pretty meager dating experience, which i must admit i'm somewhat shy about. i posted this thread kind of in the interest of hearing stories and pointers, as i said.

i've certainly never been "in a relationship," but i've taken a few girls out in more or less an attempt to be in one. it's been said here on mac rumors (i forget who it was) that girls get really weirded out if you first tell them that you're just interested in being friends and then turn around and reveal that you're really into them. i have to say, that was my experience.

i don't talk to too many girls, for whatever reason--i certainly don't attract much attention from them, and generally don't expend much energy seeking out their company. I had a friend in several of my classes, though, my senior year, and we became rather good friends. while she came from a rather rigid indian family and i from a fairly usual white american family, we found that we had tons in common--exactly the same tastes in music and literature, common intellectual interests, a lot of the same problems with our families, and so on. somewhere in our time together i started feeling very attracted to her, and finally told her. she was rather taken aback at the time, and actually got pretty angry with me. i told her i'd leave her alone and we didn't talk for months... i found it all rather disturbing. i had a very depressing last month of high school on that account. for whatever reason, though, she asked me to sign her yearbook toward the end of the year, and we talked things over for awhile, and ended the year on good, friendly terms.

over the summer, she went to school down at UT, and as such lived a long way from her family in a dorm, which she found very liberating. i would usually drive down town to visit her a few times a week, though always with mutual friends. occasionally it was the two of us, but we were in a circle of about 5 friends that pretty much always ended up together. in July, though, everyone kind of left. my family was actually out of town too, but more to the point, the three friends in our circle were at harvard, in Israel/Germany, and in Las Vegas, respectively. so she and i spent several nights that week hanging out at coffee shops. this is what i would rather tenuously call dates, heh. we talked for hours and hours, about deeply personal things, about plans and family problems and so on. it was encaptivating, but i guess i realized that it didn't mean the same thing for her as it did for me, so at the end of the week i told her again that i was in love with her (didn't use those words, to whatever end), and she told me that she didn't feel the same way about me, and "could never," but didn't want to dissolve the friendship. we still chat a lot these days, though i never see her, as i'm 6 hours out of austin here at OU.

that's my story and i'm stickin' to it.

[tazo]

When she mentions how much she likes your sausage

[zimv20]

a casual date is just a couple people doing something.

for it to be a "real" date, there must be romantic and/or sexual intentions for both parties.

(and regarding "both," i'm using that as a term of convenience, 'cuz i wouldn't necessarily limit the date and its intentions to 2 people)

a date is "good" if the people involved have become closer, either physically, emotionally or intellectually (or a combination).

[mactastic]

A chance to get dressed up and go out with the wife. Went to the local creperie friday night just 'cuz we deserved it. It's nice to be able to spend some relaxing time with the one you love. Dates are nice now, no pressure, no uncertainty, or having to worry if I'm making a bad impression.:p

[janey]

well i shouldnt say anything, but i did have a great time with josh saturday evening :D
:o it was soooooooooooo much fun.

[shadowfax]

so i guess the consensus is that the worst thing about dating is the uncertainty about making an impression, as you all seem to like dating your wives better than before...

to clarify on the thread, though, the "definition" thing was more of a joke than anything else. i'm much more interested in your experiences. feel free, of course, though, to try to define it and get mired in PCness like my good friend zimv20 :p

[iJon]

well according to the ladies man it would be dinner and a movie, and dinner meaning sex and movie meaning videotaping.

iJon

[topicolo]

Originally posted by shadowfax

that's my story and i'm stickin' to it.

Wow shadowfax. It takes quite a bit of courage to come out with that personal story. I guess you've been dying to let it out.
Personally, I don't think you should worry too much about girls and how you can start relationships with them. Just work on yourself and learn to be more confident and the girls will flock to YOU :). Confidence is key and once you experience that, you'll rarely be infatuated with any one girl anymore (unless you want to be), because you will know that you can have a relationship with practically anyone you want.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by topicolo
Wow shadowfax. It takes quite a bit of courage to come out with that personal story. I guess you've been dying to let it out.
Personally, I don't think you should worry too much about girls and how you can start relationships with them. Just work on yourself and learn to be more confident and the girls will flock to YOU :). Confidence is key and once you experience that, you'll rarely be infatuated with any one girl anymore (unless you want to be), because you will know that you can have a relationship with practically anyone you want. eh, i don't think i was dying to let it out, heh. i understand the importance of confidence, but i don't think i'm interested in comforting myself with the idea that i could get anybody i want... anyways, i'm "just" 18, right?

stories, people! :)

[Les Kern]

Used to be dinner, a drink or two to loosen up, a couple/three times around the world, then gackin' on pubic hairs the next morning. Then there's love. I've been married so long I can't even remember what the hell a date is, and I don't care. Get my point? Hope you get over the "lost years" soon, :)

[mnkeybsness]

bad dates:

finding out she's a lesbian on the third date.

when she tells you she can't see herself marrying you and you should break up because of it (when you are only 17).

finding out that she's knows more about you than you know about yourself (she's a stalker).

when she uncontrollably cries for no reason at all at random.

when she is a compulsive liar and everything she tells you, you know is a blatant lie.

good dates:

when you ask her if she likes your best friend and she admits it...okay this one may be a little complicated to understand why it is good. it's good because it's better than all of the above.

ps. these all have happened to me, all by different girls.

[vniow]

Originally posted by mnkeybsness
bad dates:
finding out she's a lesbian on the third date.


Pfft, speak for yourself.http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=257755

I wish I could say the same, I have this HUGE crush on this girl from my phychology class and I have a really strong feeling that its mutual, there's just one problem.....I think she's straight! Ack!

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=251718

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by vniow
I wish I could say the same, I have this HUGE crush on this girl from my phychology class and I have a really strong feeling that its mutual, there's just one problem.....I think she's straight! Ack!

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=251718 you'll have to explain this to me. if she's straight, and you're gay, doesn't that mean everything will work out?

[vniow]

Originally posted by shadowfax
you'll have to explain this to me. if she's straight, and you're gay, doesn't that mean everything will work out?

Its confusing, I'll know more on Wednesday, so stressed..arrgh..

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by vniow
Its confusing, I'll know more on Wednesday, so stressed..arrgh.. just ask her! heh. i asked the cutest girl i've ever met out on a date not too long ago. didn't quite pan out (already taken), but just having the balls (or what have you) to ask was good.

[vniow]

Originally posted by shadowfax
just ask her!

I did! That's why I'm so damn stresed!http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=251718

When I asked her (last week) she said she'd talk to me about it next week (which would be this Wednesday) so I've been on my toes for the past few days, arrrgh....

She's really really really cute though but I think she's really really really straight too..

[Abstract]

Originally posted by mnkeybsness
bad dates:

finding out she's a lesbian on the third date.

when she tells you she can't see herself marrying you and you should break up because of it (when you are only 17).

finding out that she's knows more about you than you know about yourself (she's a stalker).

when she uncontrollably cries for no reason at all at random.

when she is a compulsive liar and everything she tells you, you know is a blatant lie.

good dates:

when you ask her if she likes your best friend and she admits it...okay this one may be a little complicated to understand why it is good. it's good because it's better than all of the above.

ps. these all have happened to me, all by different girls.

Do you think you're Ross from Friends??

[jefhatfield]

everybody should remember their first date, but i don't since i really didn't know the definition of a date back then

but i do remember my first girlfriend, who i just mentioned about in another thread since today is her birthday

back in 1980, i was a junior in high school and i went to a saturday night dance at the gym...no big deal and i didn't expect to find anyone to dance with anyway (i was painfully shy) so i thought i would just hang out with the other shy boys and finally just go home...and it was always the same guys who were too shy...we weren't jocks and most of us were in AP classes and in those days it was terribly uncool to be a geek/nerd

so i walk into the dance and almost immediately, i see this freshman girl and i am awestruck (she looks a lot like kate beckingsale) and up until then i didn't really have a type of girl i liked...but from that moment on, and for many years, i was taken with any girl with white skin and very black hair

as i look over at her, i see she is glued to two friends and they are like a unit so this makes it three times as hard to just walk over to them to ask any one of them to dance...i figure since i am a junior and they are freshmen, and this is the first dance of the year, they have to at least be as scared as me...so i make the plunge and ask the beautiful celtic looking girl to dance (at this point, i feel so dizzy that i think i may pass out)...and when she turns to me and looks at me with those blue eyes, and then smiles and says "yes", i feel like i will certainly lose my balance

here i am just within the first week of my junior year, and a pretty decent student looking forward to the SATs, and i meet a girl who says, "yes"...man, i have a feeling i will be a bad student from now on because i won't be able to focus on studies...he he...but anyway, the song is some 70s rock tune and we nervously dance to it and i notice that she is very graceful while i feel like an uncoordinated idiot...i notice that she is shy and does not look at me that much but when she does, she has such a beautiful smile

then, the scary thing happens...oh no!...a slow song...it's a romanitic ballad called "hot rod hearts" and between the transition between the fast song and this slow song, i have to make my move...again i get very dizzy and things get blurry...but what the heck, right?...so i ask her to dance...so we get very close and hold each other and dance...i don't know what i am doing but at least anybody can do this since there are really no steps involved per se

but here i am holding her hand, her body touching mine, and i just asked her to dance...within ten minutes these are all firsts in my life for me...i wonder if she knows that...previously in my life, i had never even got within a foot of a girl and now here i am at a dance where i never expected anything to happen...i could feel her warm presence as i take in her sweet perfume...it's almost too much for me to handle

...so i guess as i recall that life changing september night 23 years ago, i guess i could call this my first date in a sense and it's kind of funny i am making this post on her birthday

happy birthday natalie,

from danny

:)

[lmalave]

It's a "real" date anytime one or both parties have romantic expectations. For example, I once went out to dinner with a friend and at some point during the dinner I thought to myself: "hmm...she seems kind of nervous...almost as if.......oh no, I'm on a freakin' date!!!" Not that she wasn't a lovely girl, but I wasn't thinking of her in that way.

A "good" date for me is any date where there's good chemistry established. Notice I was deliberately vague in both of my answers. I've done everything on a first date from just going to a coffeshop in the corner, to skydiving. I think the particular location or activity matters less than the people involved.

One thing I will say, though, is I'm not really into the modern, super-casual approach to dating. It seems like most younger people especially think it's too much to go out to dinner on a first date - a group activity or something more casual is preferred. It's like no one's willing to really put themselves on the line anymore. I guess I'm just old fashioned - I still prefer the traditional dinner and drinks date. So my current approach is to ask a girl out for drinks at a relatively early time (say 8 or 9). So if it's going well I can say: "hey, you wanna go get something to eat? Such-and-such place near here is great..." Either that or go to another bar/club. Just something to keep the night going...

[mnkeybsness]

Originally posted by Abstract
Do you think you're Ross from Friends??

no...i think i'm cursed...

actually there is this girl that likes me, but i have no interest in her at all because she smokes not only cigarettes, but weed...and LOTS of it...like every day...so i need to find a way to get rid of her...and my friends want me to completely crush her so she gets weird on me so they can hear the story and have more good laughs...all of my friends just love to hear the stories of my psycho ex girlfriends and stalkers.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
that's a great story. sounds like a pretty decent memory for a first date, if you ask me :).

do you still keep in touch with her?

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by mnkeybsness
no...i think i'm cursed...

actually there is this girl that likes me, but i have no interest in her at all because she smokes not only cigarettes, but weed...and LOTS of it...like every day...so i need to find a way to get rid of her...and my friends want me to completely crush her so she gets weird on me so they can hear the story and have more good laughs...all of my friends just love to hear the stories of my psycho ex girlfriends and stalkers. it sounds like you may need to give them the finger, man. it's very wrong to go out of your way to hurt someone who's vulnerable. be honest, not cruel, even is she is an addict.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by shadowfax
that's a great story. sounds like a pretty decent memory for a first date, if you ask me :).

do you still keep in touch with her?

actually, it's a very sad story

a few years later, she came down with schizophrenia and she had pretty much gone downhill

she escaped from a mental ward of a hospital in 1995 and her family thought of using me to help find her since she had some pictures of me on her wall from way back in 1980 and they thought she might have tried to contact me in some way...when i saw the pictures on her wall from that far back pinned up there like it was just yesterday, i thought maybe she was going to stalk me or worse...but as it turned out she was harmless towards others...i had spent a few years being a social worker for the homeless, heroin users, and vietnam vets so i had a pretty good idea where someone on the run could be hiding

so her family and i went out looking everywhere in the shelters and on the streets in the homeless sections of town and we were never able to find her...she came back home on her own three days later

i sometimes see her at the local junior college and when she is on medication, she seems fine but if she isn't on medication, she barely recognizes me and has a tremendous fear of people

[Raid]

Well with out going to far into details, I found this thread particularly appropriate considering my current situation.

Since about the start of July I've been seeing this woman who I met at a Christmas party last year (I'll call her X-mas). I knew that I liked her when I first met her, but I just ended a relationship with another girl where I found that I had and almost subconscious desire to emotionally destroy her... (I thought I should end it before I did something I regretted), and wasn't in a 'dating frame of mind' at that party. So about 6-7 months pass and my co-worker mentions X-mas to me again and says X-mas only remembers two people from that evening (me and my co-worker). This I take as good news and I call her up, and we make plans to go out.

This is new to me because I've known all my girlfriends before through social circles, so I've always had that 'we know each other' feeling when things got romantic. So I've never really had to go through the 'interview phase'.

But this one is different. I never met X-mas before that party and while there is 'romantic intent' between us we are still in that getting to know each other phase. The problem is we are both busy and have maybe seen each other about 6-8 times since our first "date", and we haven't even kissed, hugged, or held hands yet. (sounds lame, but those are the sad facts) So I'm not sure if we are dating, maybe you could classify it as "seeing each other"?

Man some days I wish I was 17 again, there's no way I'd take it so slow back then... at least I'd know where I stand! Then again I really don't mind taking it slow, I think she's worth it, but there's still part of me that wants to know!

So would this be dating to you?

Raid

[wdlove]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
actually, it's a very sad story

a few years later, she came down with schizophrenia and she had pretty much gone downhill

she escaped from a mental ward of a hospital in 1995 and her family thought of using me to help find her since she had some pictures of me on her wall from way back in 1980 and they thought she might have tried to contact me in some way...when i saw the pictures on her wall from that far back pinned up there like it was just yesterday, i thought maybe she was going to stalk me or worse...but as it turned out she was harmless towards others...i had spent a few years being a social worker for the homeless, heroin users, and vietnam vets so i had a pretty good idea where someone on the run could be hiding

so her family and i went out looking everywhere in the shelters and on the streets in the homeless sections of town and we were never able to find her...she came back home on her own three days later

i sometimes see her at the local junior college and when she is on medication, she seems fine but if she isn't on medication, she barely recognizes me and has a tremendous fear of people

That is a very sad situation Jef. It was very nice of you to help out her parents! ;)

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Raid
So would this be dating to you?

Raid certainly. there's no requirement for T&A or anything like that in a date. no reason to. if you like eachother, you like eachother, and your dating. if you haven't gotten physical, well, not everybody does that after the 8th time they've met.

jef-i'm so sorry about natalie, i can imagine how painful that must be. it's a lucky thing they have meds for it now, though... shock therapy is devastating.

[anneleonard]

well i think all of the previous messages in this thread were from americans- so here it is from a british point of view.

basically, 'dating' does not exist here! no-one i know has ever really gone on what they would call a date, apart from one friend who got the idea that she should go out for the evening for a couple of times before agreeing to 'go out' with the guy. basically we have about three stages really-

1) friends- you are clearly friends although one person might be checking the other one out at the same time. no romantic intentions are talked about or hinted, really

2) 'seeing each other' - you hang out together and might go some places together, and will snog or even do much more intimate things, but there is no commitment and you could 'see someone else' at the same time, it would not really be an issue.

3) 'going out' or being girlfriend/boyfriend - you have a commitment of exclusivity to one another and you get to know each other better on lots of levels.

so that's it, i think. it is very different to the american system, and i'm not sure why. i think we would be uncomfortable going out on a 'date' as it seems very formal, like you're interviewing each other and ticking off boxes off your mental list. the only problem with our system is that its very sudden. you're friends and then wham, you're boyfriend/girlfriend. not many people do the 'seeing each other' thing coz its so vague, i've never done it. and i've never been on a date! (f.y.i. i'm going out with someone, its our 18 month anniversary today! :D)

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by anneleonard
well i think all of the previous messages in this thread were from americans- so here it is from a british point of view.

basically, 'dating' does not exist here! no-one i know has ever really gone on what they would call a date, apart from one friend who got the idea that she should go out for the evening for a couple of times before agreeing to 'go out' with the guy. basically we have about three stages really-

1) friends- you are clearly friends although one person might be checking the other one out at the same time. no romantic intentions are talked about or hinted, really

2) 'seeing each other' - you hang out together and might go some places together, and will snog or even do much more intimate things, but there is no commitment and you could 'see someone else' at the same time, it would not really be an issue.

3) 'going out' or being girlfriend/boyfriend - you have a commitment of exclusivity to one another and you get to know each other better on lots of levels.

so that's it, i think. it is very different to the american system, and i'm not sure why. i think we would be uncomfortable going out on a 'date' as it seems very formal, like you're interviewing each other and ticking off boxes off your mental list. the only problem with our system is that its very sudden. you're friends and then wham, you're boyfriend/girlfriend. not many people do the 'seeing each other' thing coz its so vague, i've never done it. and i've never been on a date! (f.y.i. i'm going out with someone, its our 18 month anniversary today! :D) your nomenclature is different, but the system seems to be pretty much the same overall. in america, we might call 2 "dating," and 3 "serious dating," or something to that effect. honestly, again, i don't think that even americans have a really homogenous definition of dating/courtship.

[sillymacgirl]

Ok, my definition of 'dating' is two people who continually see each other with the hopes and/or intentions of starting an exclusive relationship with each other.

Otherwise, a person who goes to dinner or a movie or some type of outing with a friend would be considered to be dating that person and that's not the case in friendships. I jokingly ask some of my friends for a 'date', meaning we need to get together and do something, but it by no means that I have intentions on furthering the relationship that exists already.

So to reiterate what I've said, 'dating' should only be referred to people who see each other exclusively in order to(possibly) advance the relationship between them.

Does anyone else agree with this p.o.v.?

[mnkeybsness]

Originally posted by shadowfax
it's very wrong to go out of your way to hurt someone who's vulnerable. be honest, not cruel, even is she is an addict.

i know, but she keeps calling me and is not getting the many hints that i am dropping to her that i am not interested. i'll be as nice as i can for only so long and after that, i'll use the quote of the week... "but i leave it up to the bastard that we all know and love inside of paul to take care of the situation"

[Daveman Deluxe]

Originally posted by sillymacgirl
Ok, my definition of 'dating' is two people who continually see each other with the hopes and/or intentions of starting an exclusive relationship with each other.

Otherwise, a person who goes to dinner or a movie or some type of outing with a friend would be considered to be dating that person and that's not the case in friendships. I jokingly ask some of my friends for a 'date', meaning we need to get together and do something, but it by no means that I have intentions on furthering the relationship that exists already.

So to reiterate what I've said, 'dating' should only be referred to people who see each other exclusively in order to(possibly) advance the relationship between them.

Does anyone else agree with this p.o.v.?

I agree with your analysis of the transitive verb "dating" but I disagree with your assertion that going on a "date" with somebody (as opposed to "hanging out", et. al.) necessarily connotes dating. I can go on a date with somebody without dating her, but if I go on several dates with her and only her, then it becomes dating.

Basically, I postulate that "going on a date != dating".

Remember, the dictionary's definition of "date" is simply a social engagement, usually with a member of the opposite sex. When my friend Justin and I go out to eat, we could consider that a date (but that term would usually not be used).

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by mnkeybsness
i know, but she keeps calling me and is not getting the many hints that i am dropping to her that i am not interested. i'll be as nice as i can for only so long and after that, i'll use the quote of the week... i didn't say "be as nice as you can," i said "be honest." where you would go wrong is going out of your way, as your friends seem to want, to make her feel ashamed or something of liking you. saying, "i'm sorry, but i just don't reciprocate your feelings" is a fact of relationships. some people just won't return your feelings... but to make it any worse than that is cruel, as, quite honestly, is delaying telling her this.