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MacRumors
Dec 12, 2007, 11:32 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple is likely to introduce two (one minor, one major) iPhone revisions along with a major Apple TV update in 2008 according to Goldman Sachs analysts (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/12/12/second_gen_iphone_in_final_phase_apple_tv_update_planned_report.html).

These conclusions are based on meetings with "key component suppliers and manufacturers" in Asia.

The two iPhone revisions are predicted to be
- Increase in Flash storage (minor update, earlier in the year)
- 2nd Generation iPhone with 3G and could have a different look (major update, second half of year)

Meanwhile, the Apple TV is expected to see changes in 2008 that "could include an LCD display". Other notes include scarce information about the long rumored sub-notebook from Apple with the possibility it may be delayed due to design issues.

Analyst reports have typically been very inconsistent (http://guides.macrumors.com/Category:Analysts) with the accuracy of their predictions, though we have not heard much from David Bailey of Goldman Sachs before.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/12/3g-iphone-and-apple-tv-updates-in-2008/)



Mydel
Dec 12, 2007, 11:36 AM
More storage is always good think but Im not even using 50% of my 8Gigs now. I wonder what "change form factor" will look like :cool: This one is really nice and elegant. Cant wait where are we going from here

dmelgar
Dec 12, 2007, 11:37 AM
Doesn't sound like a good article. Apple TV with an LCD display? I don't think so, thats the last thing it needs. iPhone major update later next year... big news, everyone says 3G iPhone is coming out next year. Delayed subnotebook? I hope thats wrong, Apple hopefully will announce something at Macworld.

plumbingandtech
Dec 12, 2007, 11:37 AM
I predict a 16gig by march (duh)

Followed by a chorus of "But I can't hold my 40,000 songs (cause I listen to all of them when I drive to the store:rolleyes: ) so there for I am going to wait for the next one...the next one.... the next one..."

noservice2001
Dec 12, 2007, 11:38 AM
change the dock connector..... i want this to play in my car please... like the million other ipod that work in my car

mkubal
Dec 12, 2007, 11:39 AM
The greatest upgrade the :apple:TV could get wouldn't even be an upgrade to the :apple:TV itself. Instead it would be HD content on the iTunes video store.

I would buy one on the very day they announced this.

crackermac
Dec 12, 2007, 11:40 AM
I predict a 16gig by march (duh)

I was hoping for right after macworld. My VZW contract is up at the end of this month. Figure I could wait another 15 days to see if anything would be released.

SciTeach
Dec 12, 2007, 11:40 AM
Hmmm....an :apple:TV that is actually a TV!:eek:

What a concept!:D

It better be a big screen!:cool:

plumbingandtech
Dec 12, 2007, 11:41 AM
The greatest upgrade the :apple:TV could get wouldn't even be an upgrade to the :apple:TV itself. Instead it would be HD content on the iTunes video store.

I would buy one on the very day they announced this.

I'm kinda hoping, now that NBC/Universal are being just jerks, that apple buys TiVo and puts it into a new Apple TV.

Don't wanna sell us content?

Fine. We will let people legally record it from your tv channels.

-M7-
Dec 12, 2007, 11:41 AM
People who say "LCD Display" freak me out...

Liquid Crystal Display Display?

Virgil-TB2
Dec 12, 2007, 11:46 AM
Doesn't sound like a good article. Apple TV with an LCD display? I don't think so, thats the last thing it needs. ...This might make sense if you look at the LCD screen as being the new "remote" for the AppleTV and as a separate tablet from the main unit.

If the new "tablet Mac" is really just a glorified iPhone or iPod touch for the living room, then it makes sense that this is the unit you would have in your lap when browsing the iTunes store or managing your media on the Apple TV perhaps. It could also be used as the family book reader, library, web browser, house phone etc.

Possible anyway. :)

tk421
Dec 12, 2007, 11:46 AM
Yeah, I don't know how accurate these analysts are. iPhone updates seem like common sense. Apple TV needs an update, but I highly doubt an LCD is the update.

People who say "LCD Display" freak me out...

Liquid Crystal Display Display?

Like "ATM machine" or "PIN number". :D

gkarris
Dec 12, 2007, 11:49 AM
Why would anyone buy an :apple:TV with a display? It's for people who already have a display.

It would be like buying a Mini with one...

As far as :apple:TV, I would like to see:

An 8Gig flash unit mainly for streaming - $199
An 80Gig unit: $249
The 160Gig unit: $349

People that use just to stream would only need it for downloading content for rentals, or to purchase then transfer to their iTunes computers...

KindredMAC
Dec 12, 2007, 11:51 AM
It gets me every year how these analysts make these "sweeping" predictions near MacWorld and I think they REALLY expect us to get on our knees and worship them as gods for their "insight".

I don't have any inside tips but I can give it a whirl:
In 2008 there will be updates for all the lines of Apple products.

crackermac
Dec 12, 2007, 11:52 AM
I would think this apple tv with the display is maybe something small for previewing or doing some small configuration. I prefer the BYOTV model so you can hook it up to any size TV. Wouldn't it' just be another laptop or portable DVD player if it had a screen?

nja247
Dec 12, 2007, 11:58 AM
Display on the ATV? Stupid. It's hooked up to a damn real TV. All I want is 1) Search, 2) when I scroll through artists have it pop a display showing the letter of the artists like on ipods, 3) can we say fireplace screen-saver???

Those three things would make me a happy ATV user. Further I don't want to buy a new one to get simple features. Come on Apple!

elgruga
Dec 12, 2007, 12:07 PM
People who say "LCD Display" freak me out...

Liquid Crystal Display Display?

Yeah, me too.

Like ATM Machine......Automated Teller Machine Machine - aaargh!

People, use the acronym as a noun and everything will be fine.


Anyway - 16 gig iPhone at Macworld 2008 is a no brainer.
March? Way too late.

Possibly 16 gig and 32 gig? I mean this is an iPod with a phone attached - why not have 32?

Increased ability to read and store and edit documents - you'll need 16 at least.

A small computer needs about 60 gb of storage minimum - and the iPhone is a small computer.

Goldman Sachs is right, a small upgrade (memory capacity) and a BIG upgrade - new functions, design change etc.

ccunning
Dec 12, 2007, 12:09 PM
I'm kinda hoping, now that NBC/Universal are being just jerks, that apple buys TiVo and puts it into a new Apple TV.

Don't wanna sell us content?

Fine. We will let people legally record it from your tv channels.

This does *not* help me with my goal of discontinuing my cable service.

Unspeaked
Dec 12, 2007, 12:15 PM
So what are we supposed to get from the LCD remark?

Is Apple entering the flat-screen TV business? Or do they just mean a little LCD panel on the device with menu options...?

dogtanian
Dec 12, 2007, 12:16 PM
Yeah, me too.

Like ATM Machine......Automated Teller Machine Machine - aaargh!

People, use the acronym as a noun and everything will be fine.


Anyway - 16 gig iPhone at Macworld 2008 is a no brainer.
March? Way too late.

Society has added the 'Number' to PIN for clarity, as it has entered common use around the world the same way LCD display has. People just want to understand what it is without understanding the technical bit behind it - ie Liquid Crystal Display. I see nothing wrong with that!

I agree with the 16GB iPhone by February.

evilyankeefan
Dec 12, 2007, 12:17 PM
An :apple:TV w/ a LCD display? Ridiculous!

Content, content, content which encompasses quality and price is what is going to make :apple:TV sell. Anything else is just uncivilized.

surferfromuk
Dec 12, 2007, 12:24 PM
If that Apple TV 'LCD' display is between 40 and 50" then Apple just won another $2000 of my custom!

+Plus I hope a whole lot of nice Apple-esque features inc at the very least a DVR

gugy
Dec 12, 2007, 12:26 PM
Display with :apple:TV is just stupid. Why would you put a hardware that need to be upgrade in 2 years on a hardware that people tend to keep for several years?
Doesn't make sense. Unles is a swapable :apple:TV card, why would you buy a killer HDTV and in couple years :apple:TV upgrades for a coller thing and then, here we go, You have a killer HDTV with an obsolete :apple:TV.

Unless is a mediocre LCD display that then you can upgrade it without breaking the bank. It doesn't make sense.

I rather see :apple:TV 2.0 with an larger drive, direct connection to iTunes store, movie and tv rentals, 1080p, 5.1 audio and (wishful thinking) DVR.

DVR won't happen, but the rest seems more interesting than a LCD with :apple:TV on it.

SirOmega
Dec 12, 2007, 12:28 PM
I'm kinda hoping, now that NBC/Universal are being just jerks, that apple buys TiVo and puts it into a new Apple TV.

Don't wanna sell us content?

Fine. We will let people legally record it from your tv channels.

Fine. We will let people legally record it from your tv channels, edit out commercials and transfer the video throughout their home for viewing on any TV or device DRM free.

That would be a kick in the nuts, though they run the risk of alienating the rest of their TV partners.

iWizzard
Dec 12, 2007, 12:33 PM
I predict a 16gig by march (duh)

Followed by a chorus of "But I can't hold my 40,000 songs (cause I listen to all of them when I drive to the store:rolleyes: ) so there for I am going to wait for the next one...the next one.... the next one..."

One of the main concept of Ipod is "sync" You can without doing anything ells but connecting it to the computer have all you music transfered to your Ipod.

Having to be forced to chose what song you want to transfer to the ipod is an hassle you want to avoid if possible.

32GB should be enough for most people. If you have more than that you most likely don't listen to most of it. But with a number of video podcasts even 32GB is likely to be to little for many people. 64GB would be nice, to bad Apple don't have replaceable memory.


Maybe streaming is an solution if you only store the first 10sec of etch song on the Ipod then you would be able to stream from home on most internet connections.

gugy
Dec 12, 2007, 12:35 PM
16gig iPhone at MWSF. Please, then sure update it again for 3G and 32gig at WWDC. I would sell my old on eBay upgrade for the new one and be happy.:D

birdwooddog
Dec 12, 2007, 12:35 PM
Display with :apple:TV is just stupid. Why would you put a hardware that need to be upgrade in 2 years on a hardware that people tend to keep for several years?
Doesn't make sense. Unles is a swapable :apple:TV card, why would you buy a killer HDTV and in couple years :apple:TV upgrades for a coller thing and then, here we go, You have a killer HDTV with an obsolete :apple:TV.

Unless is a mediocre LCD display that then you can upgrade it without breaking the bank. It doesn't make sense.

I rather see :apple:TV 2.0 with an larger drive, direct connection to iTunes store, movie and tv rentals, 1080p, 5.1 audio and (wishful thinking) DVR.

DVR won't happen, but the rest seems more interesting than a LCD with :apple:TV on it.

I agree - large TV screens is not Apple's core product - a LCD similar to an iphone or ipod maybe, not sure why they would do this though.

lofight
Dec 12, 2007, 12:39 PM
New iphone looks sound great, but please not to early, this model is already far above most other mobiles. Higher capacity is always nice, but they shouldn't raise the price in that case.

Apple tv plus lcd? i'm not sure, big competition, but they also did the same in the big mobile market, so it could be possible.. And probably people also quite like the idea of having a tv with wifi and all their photos and videos on, with trailer acces. Apple would even make it better with itunes shop + rental of videos.

MacsAttack
Dec 12, 2007, 12:42 PM
Fine. We will let people legally record it from your tv channels, edit out commercials and transfer the video throughout their home for viewing on any TV or device DRM free.


I've been able to do that for about two years now... :D

Well.. the legal angle is a little in question, but with Freeveiw DTV transmissions and a little receiver and EyeTV it's simple. I can even stream onto my iPhone now.

tobor68
Dec 12, 2007, 12:44 PM
appleTV updates will probably be software based. i think the LCD is bogus: flies in the face of what SJ said it was designed for. i wish people would stop complaining about what it can't do (DVR for instance). if you own one you know how good it is and the niche that it fills. it gets stuff from your computer to your TV, period.

if there's any hardware improvement, it'll be a bigger drive option or flash memory and maybe some GPU tweaks. also, possibly, the ability to pair a cordless keyboard.

the ATV is built with the same philosophy as the iphone, upgrades will be done with soft/firmware. the hardware is good to go as is. it plays hd content on an old fashioned CRT fer cripes sake!

so the biggest hole in the ATV software is being able to browse the iTS. also, an SDK would be nice but this opens a whole can of worms. unless apple uses itunes to distribute software/plugins like they will with the iphone.

the one feature i'd like to see is the ability to add plugins like perian.

anyway, my 2 cents.

kristoffer4
Dec 12, 2007, 01:14 PM
Doesn't sound like a good article. Apple TV with an LCD display? I don't think so, thats the last thing it needs. iPhone major update later next year... big news, everyone says 3G iPhone is coming out next year. Delayed subnotebook? I hope thats wrong, Apple hopefully will announce something at Macworld.

I disagree. A LCD screen would be very usefull for itunes and listning music without turning on your tv. :cool:

Clive At Five
Dec 12, 2007, 01:15 PM
Apple TV with an LCD display? I don't think so, thats the last thing it needs.

Agreed. Apple needs to cut the "closed-door Apple world" crap. Their products need to start working with other systems and technologies. I said this yesterday but to make :apple:TV successful, either Apple has to change their iTunes business model, or their :apple:TV business model.

Since the Studios are starting to fight back against Apple, I say modify iTS. Offer a rental service in addition to the option to buy. Give :apple:TV a DVD player, PVR functionality, and "couch-top" access to the iTS TV/Movie page. Then it will truly be the all-in-one home media system. People who want to rent movies/TV shows win, people who watch DVDs win, people who record their own TV shows win, and people who want to do all three (most of us) win big-time.

-Clive

Ryan Considine
Dec 12, 2007, 01:15 PM
People who say "LCD Display" freak me out...

Liquid Crystal Display Display?

What about your Personal Identification Number number
and your Automated Teller Machine machine?

I'm right there with you...

plumbingandtech
Dec 12, 2007, 01:22 PM
32GB should be enough for most people

Nope.

There will a chorus of whiners even at that size unfornately.:)

Maybe streaming is an solution if you only store the first 10sec of etch song on the Ipod then you would be able to stream from home on most internet connections.

That would be very cool.

gugy
Dec 12, 2007, 01:28 PM
Give :apple:TV a DVD player

:apple:TV doesn't need that. Maybe a Blu-ray player. Everybody nowadays have a DVD, so it will only add to the size and price of :apple:TV. I agree with all of your requests, but DVD even Blu-ray doesn't seem to help promote the iTunes Store.
As for DVR, I would love one, but once again it conflicts with Apple strategy to sell iTunes content.

joemama
Dec 12, 2007, 01:31 PM
Fine. We will let people legally record it from your tv channels, edit out commercials and transfer the video throughout their home for viewing on any TV or device DRM free.

That would be a kick in the nuts, though they run the risk of alienating the rest of their TV partners.

This is EXACTLY what Apple should do. You want to see Apple make a killing at the expense of the TV industry, then do this.

Editing the commercials out would be nice, but why not create a software update that allows people to skip 30 seconds? Hit the fast forward button twice quickly, skip 30 seconds.

DVR is a must. Do it Steve!! Please!

NightStorm
Dec 12, 2007, 01:33 PM
As long as they release a firmware upgrade to add any new software functionality in the new AppleTV's to the first generation ones, I'll be happy.

I have a feeling we'll see a major release of iTunes 8 at Macworld, with the rental functionality. To take advantage of this, we'll see software updates to the iPod/iPhone/AppleTV. One feature that will be necessary for rentals to make sense on the AppleTV is a storefront accessible natively on the AppleTV.

AtHomeBoy_2000
Dec 12, 2007, 01:35 PM
I tend to think OLED rather than LED

Much Ado
Dec 12, 2007, 01:38 PM
Who actually listens to analysts when they make stab-in-the-dark predictions?

bilbo--baggins
Dec 12, 2007, 01:39 PM
The greatest upgrade the :apple:TV could get wouldn't even be an upgrade to the :apple:TV itself. Instead it would be HD content on the iTunes video store.

Spot on.

The Apple TV's physical hardware is fine, definitely doesn't need an LCD crystal display (;)). Minor refinements to the software is all I want.

But MAJOR improvements to the iTunes Store content - especially in the UK, where we can't get ANY films (movies) yet. We can get a very limited selection of TV shows - at great expense (far more expensive than the US).

bilbo--baggins
Dec 12, 2007, 01:43 PM
Give :apple:TV a DVD player

Yeah. And give the iPod an AM radio, and the iPhone CB radio capability, and the Mac a 5.25" floppy drive. Nostalgia here we come...

gkarris
Dec 12, 2007, 01:51 PM
If that Apple TV 'LCD' display is between 40 and 50" then Apple just won another $2000 of my custom!

+Plus I hope a whole lot of nice Apple-esque features inc at the very least a DVR

DVR's are awesome (I have a Tivo since they started), but I think that Apple is moving towards making available free downloads with commercials, hence you don't need the extra circuits for a DVR... or DVR capability to begin with...

guzhogi
Dec 12, 2007, 01:51 PM
Things I'd like to see in the iPhone:
-3G support
-Real GPS support (not just cell tower triangulation)
-Radio
-Voice Memos
-Games/3rd party apps
-More Storage space
-Flash expansion slot (SD, CF, something)
-User replaceable battery

Things I'd like to see on the :apple:TV:
-DVR functionality
-Maybe integrated w/ the Mac Mini & Airport base station
-full 1080p resolution
-Full HD content on iTunes

I know, we probably won't see many of these things, but they're all possible if Apple lets them

kagharaht
Dec 12, 2007, 01:54 PM
One important upgrade that Apple TV needs right now is DD support. Get that 5.1 piping through that HDMI port and that will make a significant upgrade. Hopefully its a software update.

guzhogi
Dec 12, 2007, 01:55 PM
Nope.

There will a chorus of whiners even at that size unfornately.:)


Agreed. There will be whiners at any size level. Either not enough space for their 10s/100s of thousands of songs & movies, or too much space.

Clive At Five
Dec 12, 2007, 02:00 PM
Yeah. And give the iPod an AM radio, and the iPhone CB radio capability, and the Mac a 5.25" floppy drive. Nostalgia here we come...

Okay, whatever. Blu-Ray. You know what I mean.

Either way, people still use DVDs. DVD purchases still dominantly outweigh hi-def sales. It's not like it's a record player or something.

The gist of what I was saying is that :apple:TV *could* be peoples' complete solution. Instead, it's a unitasker. What a waste.

As long as people are still buying their media on a disk, it would be a useful capability for :apple:TV to play such disks.

Hey, Bilbo. Why aren't you critiquing Apple for their DVD-drives in their computers? Why not Blu-Ray there as well? Heck, why use optical media all together? Spinning disks are soooooo primative. Let's just skip entirely to solid state.

*rolls eyes*

-Clive

NightStorm
Dec 12, 2007, 02:03 PM
One important upgrade that Apple TV needs right now is DD support. Get that 5.1 piping through that HDMI port and that will make a significant upgrade. Hopefully its a software update.
If they are going to add discrete surround capabilities, I hope they atleast choose one of the next-generation formats. I could see them using DD+; Apple has never been one to use old standards just because everyone else is (ie AAC in a MP3 world). Of course, they would need to figure out a way to get them in a proper container, and I believe that is really the heart of the issue.

bcavanau
Dec 12, 2007, 02:14 PM
Like "ATM machine" or "PIN number". :D

You forgot NIC card. (Network Interface Card Card)

puckhead193
Dec 12, 2007, 02:15 PM
- 2nd Generation iPhone with 3G and could have a different look (major update, second half of year)


yay! About then i'll be sick of my BB pearl :p :D

CWallace
Dec 12, 2007, 02:19 PM
Give :apple:TV a DVD player...

Better yet, give it a FireWire port so I can plug in a 1TB+ external HDD and include a copy of "MactheRipper" that would automatically rip the DVD onto the HDD and then FairPlay DRM it. That way, I can shovel hundreds (and, eventually, thousands) of my DVDs onto the machine directly, but still keep Hollywood off my arse.

And yes, I know that many of us already rip our DVDs without DRM and stream them to our :apple:tvs from our Macs, but the point of this would be to make it "simple" for those who don't have the time or the skills to do it like we do.

gugy
Dec 12, 2007, 02:31 PM
Better yet, give it a FireWire port so I can plug in a 1TB+ external HDD and include a copy of "MactheRipper" that would automatically rip the DVD onto the HDD and then FairPlay DRM it. That way, I can shovel hundreds (and, eventually, thousands) of my DVDs onto the machine directly, but still keep Hollywood off my arse.

And yes, I know that many of us already rip our DVDs without DRM and stream them to our :apple:tvs from our Macs, but the point of this would be to make it "simple" for those who don't have the time or the skills to do it like we do.

I like that. That would make so much easier to watch my library of DVDs without have to search for them in my shelf.

diamond.g
Dec 12, 2007, 02:39 PM
If they are going to add discrete surround capabilities, I hope they atleast choose one of the next-generation formats. I could see them using DD+; Apple has never been one to use old standards just because everyone else is (ie AAC in a MP3 world). Of course, they would need to figure out a way to get them in a proper container, and I believe that is really the heart of the issue.

Screw DD+, the Apple TV needs to encode Dolby TrueHD and or DTSMA. It also needs HDMI 1.3a support.

GQB
Dec 12, 2007, 02:56 PM
This is EXACTLY what Apple should do. You want to see Apple make a killing at the expense of the TV industry, then do this.

Editing the commercials out would be nice, but why not create a software update that allows people to skip 30 seconds? Hit the fast forward button twice quickly, skip 30 seconds.

DVR is a must. Do it Steve!! Please!

DVR won't happen for 3 reasons:
1) DVRs have become a commodity item since the cable companies have started renting them out for $8/mo. Tivo's sliding, not growing. No way Apple will get into that market when their goal is,
2) digital download (positioning themselves for the bandwidth that will make it practical.)
3) DVR means means cable-card, since most people want to DVR premium content. OTA is a joke. And Cable-cards have been a bigger flop than nay-sayers claim that the AppleTV is.

They're preparing for rentals and want to position themselves as the ala-carte solution everyone's been clamoring for. They're not going to hitch themselves to the cable companies.

Roughlydrafted has it right...
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/12/should-apple-tv-copy-tivo-and-media-center/
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/07/how-apple-could-deliver-workable-itunes-rentals/

bloodycape
Dec 12, 2007, 03:07 PM
So now the iPhone will have 16gb, while ever other mp3/convergence device will slowly be moving to 32gb? Nice. It would be real nice, and I mean real nice, to see a 32gb iPhone. Then again the 32gb devices that are out do command a hefty penny so to speak.

dernhelm
Dec 12, 2007, 03:12 PM
Put a DVD in the :apple:TV and you've got a deal. I don't even care if it's a BlueRay or HD player - I just don't need yet another device to plug in to my TV.

twoodcc
Dec 12, 2007, 03:14 PM
yeah i'm not sure about the apple tv with an lcd screen?

Cave Man
Dec 12, 2007, 03:17 PM
If they are going to add discrete surround capabilities, I hope they atleast choose one of the next-generation formats. I could see them using DD+; Apple has never been one to use old standards just because everyone else is (ie AAC in a MP3 world). Of course, they would need to figure out a way to get them in a proper container, and I believe that is really the heart of the issue.

Just use Quicktime - needs updated, but all that has to happen is passthrough out the optical port. Let the receiver do the decoding.

Screw DD+, the Apple TV needs to encode Dolby TrueHD and or DTSMA. It also needs HDMI 1.3a support.

You're talking serious file size. That won't jive with Apple's download model at iTMS. 720 video with DTHD audio? A 2 hour movie's going to be 10-15 gigs in size. This is why physical media (e.g., Blu Ray, HD-DVD) are so attractive.

MattInOz
Dec 12, 2007, 03:25 PM
Why would anyone buy an :apple:TV with a display? It's for people who already have a display.

It would be like buying a Mini with one...

As far as :apple:TV, I would like to see:

An 8Gig flash unit mainly for streaming - $199
An 80Gig unit: $249
The 160Gig unit: $349

People that use just to stream would only need it for downloading content for rentals, or to purchase then transfer to their iTunes computers...

I'd like to see just one model, no harddrive just flash (8or16Gb) but include Firewire and USB support for External devices.

That way they could licence the a case design to anyone who wants to build a compatible device.
That way you could Blu-Ray or HDdvd or both. Someone else might build a DVR with it's own harddrive. The movie studio's could build a licenced DVDripper with a HD fr storing your movies. Enough people want FM radio or CB then someone will build those as well.

Just like the old Component HiFi systems.

Like the iPod apple makes money on the ecosystem.
also it could then screen share or be a thin terminal Mac. so people might buy a few for around the house and office.

slu
Dec 12, 2007, 04:01 PM
The only thing that bothers me more than people who complain about not having enough hard drive space are those that say things like "most people don't need more than 32 GB of space".

I don't care how much space you want, why should you care what I want?

And please give it up with the DVR and DVD player wishes. This is just ain't going to happen. These are not the correct solutions to the main problem, which is the crappy content on iTunes and the lack of rentals.

If iTunes had HD content for all major networks and movie studios and had a rental option as well, why would you need a DVR or DVD player?

I know this isn't popular around here, but if there were free, ad-supported, versions of shows available in iTunes, they would be a big hit for both consumers and networks.

Lastly, you should be able to use the iTunes store from the couch. Do that and you have a winner on your hands.

emotion
Dec 12, 2007, 04:14 PM
The two iPhone revisions are predicted to be
- Increase in Flash storage (minor update, earlier in the year)
- 2nd Generation iPhone with 3G and could have a different look (major update, second half of year)

Analysts eh? A few people on here (myself included) have been saying this for a while.

How much do they get paid?

diamond.g
Dec 12, 2007, 05:00 PM
Just use Quicktime - needs updated, but all that has to happen is passthrough out the optical port. Let the receiver do the decoding.



You're talking serious file size. That won't jive with Apple's download model at iTMS. 720 video with DTHD audio? A 2 hour movie's going to be 10-15 gigs in size. This is why physical media (e.g., Blu Ray, HD-DVD) are so attractive.

Eh, I could settle for DD+, but it has to be at least 1 Mbps. 720p video as h.264 should be encoded with the CABAC, with at least 5 Mbps. That should be plenty fine for downloads.

bdkennedy1
Dec 12, 2007, 05:13 PM
That's funny, the whole time I thought people were clamoring for an Apple TV with DVR functionality, and personally, being able to watch a movie all the way through without some sort of connection being dropped. Meanwhile, everyone wanted an LCD display.

I just found out that my XBox 360 can play all of my movies and TV shows that I was watching on my Apple TV. The interface may not be as pretty, but all of the functionality is there, including streaming everything from my Mac and guess what... the picture is better and I haven't had a single glitch watching movies. You wouldn't know you weren't watching a DVD.

For Microsoft to come along and offer MP4 AAC functionality as an afterthought showed me how much Apple half-assed the Apple TV.

ZhaoYun
Dec 12, 2007, 06:37 PM
People who say "LCD Display" freak me out...

Liquid Crystal Display Display?

Is like, NIC Card. Network Interface Card Card.:)

BTW, why the hell I want a AppleTV to come with a REAL TV(LCD) ?? Is like buying a HDD and it comes with a PC !! That is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.

Bigger capacity iPhone is a good idea...

CyberBob859
Dec 12, 2007, 07:33 PM
I agree - large TV screens is not Apple's core product - a LCD similar to an iphone or ipod maybe, not sure why they would do this though.

Maybe for a new, optional remote with touch screen, gestures, etc that controls Apple TV, Airport Express and AirTunes to compete with Sonos Digital Music System?

Only reason I can think of having an LCD associated with an Apple TV.

KindredMAC
Dec 12, 2007, 09:09 PM
I think people might be looking at the LCD rumor a little too literally.

I don't think that the :apple: tv is going to have a display attached to it for viewing content but perhaps a small LCD to show time, countdown, chapter, movie title, etc... on the front.

jhedges3
Dec 12, 2007, 10:00 PM
DVR doesnít make sense to me. It seems backward for one thing. Like, itís hard for me to imagine anyone being wowed by that functionality since (as others have pointed out) itís already widely used (cable providers). The functionality it provides doesnít seem to fetch all that much money, so adding it to the device would be competing with other cheaper options.

In addition, DVR seems better suited to that model (streamed), since it allows storage of something thatís coming in continuously. I mean how would DVR work with the iTunes model? Then again what you might be suggesting, what the original posts, might have been suggesting was adding live content (with DVR) in addition to maintaining the old model (downloaded).

Can anyone explain why iTunes canít provide live content? Is there live video content through iTunes Store? Iím thinking it doesnít suit the a-la-carte, the providers wouldnít allow it, and itís too much data to stream. Is it all of those, none of those?

Downloading an episode of a regularly broadcast show and watching it whenever seems fine. That goes for movie rentals.

But what about an NFL game or an EPL match for that matter. Or live news about an ongoing terrorist attack. Or a press conference of Ive taking over for Jobs. Whatís supposed to happen there? We wait a few hours or days till the football game, bomb, news has finished and then come back and watch it.

I mean how can it be a complete solution if all of itís content is delayed.

lord patton
Dec 12, 2007, 11:32 PM
This might make sense if you look at the LCD screen as being the new "remote" for the AppleTV and as a separate tablet from the main unit.

If the new "tablet Mac" is really just a glorified iPhone or iPod touch for the living room, then it makes sense that this is the unit you would have in your lap when browsing the iTunes store or managing your media on the Apple TV perhaps. It could also be used as the family book reader, library, web browser, house phone etc.

Possible anyway. :)

I think that makes a lot of sense, actually. So many peopled have commented here that they'd love to use an iPhone as a remote control for their :apple:TV, I can't believe that Cupertino hasn't thought about it, too.

If I could 1) not have to turn on my TV to make the :apple:TV play music, and 2) use the iPhone keyboard to surf YouTube, rent movies, buy songs etc from my living room, I'd definitely buy one.

lord patton
Dec 12, 2007, 11:37 PM
if you own one [:apple:TV] you know how good it is and the niche that it fills. it gets stuff from your computer to your TV, period.

if there's any hardware improvement, it'll be a bigger drive option or flash memory and maybe some GPU tweaks. also, possibly, the ability to pair a cordless keyboard.


a cordless keyboard... like on an iPhone! (no need for a mouse that way, either).

lord patton
Dec 12, 2007, 11:41 PM
As for DVR, I would love one, but once again it conflicts with Apple strategy to sell iTunes content.

Apple doesn't have a strategy to sell iTunes content. They have a tactic of selling iTunes content, a tactic which worked wonderfully for their strategy of selling iPods.

It's time, obviously, for a new tactic for selling aTVs. I think they should do whatever it takes to make the 60,000 movies on Netflix available for rent, and fast.

Derwood
Dec 13, 2007, 05:23 AM
...just wondering if there's an argument to be made for the integration of :apple:TV with Apple's range of Cinema Displays?

Give the cinema displays streaming Wireless-n capability, with no hard-drive but additional usb ports for adding external storage and digital terrestrial reception through EyeTV/Miglia, rationalise the I/O (no hdmi required when your :apple:TV is inside your display), and you've got a substantial update that might just breathe a bit of life into the :apple:TV project.

It wouldn't necessarily canibalise :apple:TV sales either. There will still be those people who want to make their own choices about what display they have, who want to mod their :apple:TV with insanely big drives, and so on.

I agree that HD content through iTunes store and some kind of rental pricing model is also of critical importance if :apple:TV is going to survive.

Derwood

page3
Dec 13, 2007, 06:01 AM
I think people might be looking at the LCD rumor a little too literally.

I don't think that the :apple: tv is going to have a display attached to it for viewing content but perhaps a small LCD to show time, countdown, chapter, movie title, etc... on the front.Which means I might finally buy one.

I'm interested in AppleTV for listening to my iTunes music, but it must have a display. I'm not turning on my Television set every time I want to select a track and then have to switch it back off again.

diamond.g
Dec 13, 2007, 06:32 AM
Which means I might finally buy one.

I'm interested in AppleTV for listening to my iTunes music, but it must have a display. I'm not turning on my Television set every time I want to select a track and then have to switch it back off again.

They could pull a Bose and add a display to the remote. And make the remote RF based while they are at it.

CyberBob859
Dec 13, 2007, 07:00 AM
Apple doesn't have a strategy to sell iTunes content. They have a tactic of selling iTunes content, a tactic which worked wonderfully for their strategy of selling iPods.

It's time, obviously, for a new tactic for selling aTVs. I think they should do whatever it takes to make the 60,000 movies on Netflix available for rent, and fast.

This is the only way to make the Apple TV a compelling device in a short amount of time, IMO.

Recently the US Post Office said they were going to increase the postage (being paid by Netflix) on the processing of all those DVD's daily. Netflix said they were going to change the design of the packaging, but they should go one step further - make it digital - and eliminate the postage altogether.

Apple has the hardware with the Apple TV and a means to get media to it with iTunes. So, convert the Netflix DVD library to digital, save on the postage, give a cut on each rental to Apple for running the iTunes infrastructure, and both parties should make out. Apple gets to sell aTV's, and would get a continuous revenue stream after the sale of the hardware (a big part of their strategy nowadays.)

I would buy an Apple TV in a heartbeat if the Netflix DVD library was available.

blybug
Dec 13, 2007, 08:03 AM
I disagree. A LCD screen would be very usefull for itunes and listning music without turning on your tv. :cool:
Isn't that an iPod then...?? :confused:

diamond.g
Dec 13, 2007, 08:07 AM
Isn't that an iPod then...?? :confused:

It would be if the iPod came with a stereo system...

lanray
Dec 13, 2007, 09:42 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

what frustrates me is that we're spending all this time speculating about the next iPhone, and the current one hasn't lived up to its promise or potential. I'm hoping that we'll see some movement on applications and function soon, and well before we get another generation of phone.

merman637
Dec 13, 2007, 10:36 AM
Display with :apple:TV is just stupid. Why would you put a hardware that need to be upgrade in 2 years on a hardware that people tend to keep for several years?
Doesn't make sense. Unles is a swapable :apple:TV card, why would you buy a killer HDTV and in couple years :apple:TV upgrades for a coller thing and then, here we go, You have a killer HDTV with an obsolete :apple:TV.

Unless is a mediocre LCD display that then you can upgrade it without breaking the bank. It doesn't make sense.

I rather see :apple:TV 2.0 with an larger drive, direct connection to iTunes store, movie and tv rentals, 1080p, 5.1 audio and (wishful thinking) DVR.

DVR won't happen, but the rest seems more interesting than a LCD with :apple:TV on it.

LCD is probably for feedback and possibly remoteless use. "play" "pause" "stream" etc. Think of the screen on a DVD player...

Blue Ray player (or ability to convert 1080p movie from Disc or buy movie in iTunes) is CRUCIAL to the success of the apple TV, 2nd only to 1080P and 5.1 sound
Everything else is right. HD and ability to load HD content (video AND sound) is the ONLY reason I do not own one of these right now.
Other companies (tivx/mvix/DLINK) out there have 1080p streaming boxes with HD add-on ability, why not apple? AND these have ability to play VOB files, WITH 5.1 sound. The only thing they lack is itunes connectivity and therefore itms support.

C'mon apple make my New Year!

John Musbach
Dec 15, 2007, 04:10 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple is likely to introduce two (one minor, one major) iPhone revisions along with a major Apple TV update in 2008 according to Goldman Sachs analysts (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/12/12/second_gen_iphone_in_final_phase_apple_tv_update_planned_report.html).

These conclusions are based on meetings with "key component suppliers and manufacturers" in Asia.

The two iPhone revisions are predicted to be
- Increase in Flash storage (minor update, earlier in the year)
- 2nd Generation iPhone with 3G and could have a different look (major update, second half of year)

Meanwhile, the Apple TV is expected to see changes in 2008 that "could include an LCD display". Other notes include scarce information about the long rumored sub-notebook from Apple with the possibility it may be delayed due to design issues.

Analyst reports have typically been very inconsistent (http://guides.macrumors.com/Category:Analysts) with the accuracy of their predictions, though we have not heard much from David Bailey of Goldman Sachs before.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/12/3g-iphone-and-apple-tv-updates-in-2008/)

This is great news, in particular the 3G iPhone and the increased flash storage. If Apple can get flash storage up to at least 100gb I'd consider the ultraslim macbook a possible purchase choice although the lack of a optical drive is still something I would have to give some thought about. If by the time the 3G iPhone is released there is a good selection of applications for the iPhone via the official SDK then the iPhone will finally become a viable purchase choice for me, although I will also be looking at Android powered phones.

ricosuave
Dec 16, 2007, 06:30 PM
Screw DD+, the Apple TV needs to encode Dolby TrueHD and or DTSMA. It also needs HDMI 1.3a support.

I don't know what those things are but now I want them on my :apple:TV!

macinfojunkie
Dec 17, 2007, 07:11 AM
Apple sure need to do something with the ATV, especially in Europe where it has limited appeal. Adding a bit more storage is not going to do much to increase momentum in that product. Sure the YouTube feature is nice, but where is the additional apple store content, where is the option to purchase via the remote? Where is the support for additional fire formats? I'm sick of having to convert formats.

Steven Ballmer
Dec 17, 2007, 07:33 AM
This is just some FUD put out by the CEO of ATT in a vain aptempt to get some attention!